The Dual Power of Advertising: From Ad-diction to Good-vertising (ft. Thomas Kolster, author of Goodvertising) | 2050 Investors — Economic and markets megatrends, ahead of 2050’s global sustainability targets

Description

Think about the last advert you saw. Was it the first or the 100th time you saw it? Today, the average person sees around 5,000 to 10,000 ads a day - a significant jump from the 500 ads a day in the 1970s.

So, with all these ads - from social media to cable TV - vying for our attention, it's time for a reckoning. In this episode of 2050 Investors, we ask: has advertising been a force for good, or has it contributed to patterns of over-consumption?

Join host Kokou Agbo-Bloua on a journey through the fascinating world of advertising, exploring its evolution from ancient practices to modern strategies that shape consumer behaviour and cultural identity. Kokou also examines the rapid growth of this multi-billion-dollar industry, its future amid rapid developments in AI and, of course, the pros and cons of an industry credited with creating some of the world's most iconic slogans, jingles and moments.

Later in the episode, Kokou welcomes guest Thomas Kolster, a leading marketing and sustainability expert and author of Goodvertising. Thomas shares his unique insights on how advertising can shift from a consumer-driven model to a purpose-driven one, emphasising the importance of aligning brand values with consumer ethics. He discusses the challenges brands face in distinguishing genuine efforts from greenwashing and how to authentically engage with socially conscious consumers.

There's certainly something for everyone in this episode!

About this show

Welcome to 2050 Investors, your monthly guide to understanding the intricate connections between finance, globalisation, and ESG.

Join host Kokou Agbo-Bloua, Head of Economics, Cross-Asset & Quant Research at Societe Generale, for an exploration of the economic and market megatrends shaping the present and future, and how these trends might influence our progress to meeting 2050’s challenging global sustainability targets.

In each episode, Kokou deep-dives into the events impacting the economy, financial markets, the planet, and society. Through a magical blend of personal anecdotes, in-depth research and narratives overlaid with music, sound effects, and pop culture references, there’s certainly something for everyone.

Kokou also interviews industry-leading experts, personalities, entrepreneurs and even Nobel prize winners! You will learn from the best on a wide range of subjects on current affairs, market shifts, and economic developments.

If you like 2050 Investors, please leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Your support will help us spread the word and reach new audiences. If you’re seeking a brief and entertaining overview of market-related topics and their business and societal implications, subscribe now to stay informed!

Previous episodes of 2050 Investors have explored ESG, climate change, AI, greenflation, globalization, plastic pollution, food, healthcare, biodiversity and more.

Credits

Presenter & Writer: Kokou Agbo-Bloua. Editors: Vincent Nickelsen, Jovaney Ashman, Jennifer Krumm, Louis Trouslard.
Production Designer: Emmanuel Minelle, Radio K7 Creative. Executive Producer : Fanny Giniès. Sound Director: Marc Valenduc. Music: Emmanuel d’Orlando. Graphic Design: Cédric Cazaly.

Whilst the following podcast discusses the financial markets, it does not recommend any particular investment decision. If you are unsure of the merits of any investment decision, please seek professional advice.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Hi Siri, can you solve this riddle? Discover the happiest place on earth, which should open happiness. Because you're worth it. Think different and just do it.
Speaker #1
Hum, I'm not sure I can solve it. I need a hint.
Speaker #0
Gotcha! I have combined five of the most popular slogans from some of the world's most famous brands to see whether you would recognize them.
Speaker #1
Really?
Speaker #0
I'll give it another go. And put our audience to the test too. I'll repeat them and you'll have to guess the brand names. Ready?
Speaker #1
Okay, go for it.
Speaker #0
Discover the happiest place on earth, which should open happiness. Because you're worth it. Think different and just do it. Time's up. So, did you get them?
Speaker #1
Duh, of course. You think I live in a cave. That's Disneyland. Coca-Cola. L'Oreal, Apple and Nike.
Speaker #0
Spot on. And data from connected smartphones suggests that 98.7% of listeners got the right answers too.
Speaker #1
So, what's the point of all of this?
Speaker #0
Siri, this clearly shows that advertising has left its mark on our collective memories. Or maybe we'll just have excellent recall.
Speaker #1
Well, isn't this just plain brainwashing by advertising? Hmm,
Speaker #0
that's one way to look at it. These slogans are engineered. to stick in our brains like a catchy pop song. Here's the thing. Advertising doesn't just sell products. It sells ideas, emotions, and even identities through cleverly crafted words and storytelling.
Speaker #1
And I guess that's exactly what we're diving into today.
Speaker #0
As insightful as always, Siri. But first, a quick commercial break. Let's take a moment to hear from our advertisers. Special offer alert. Love what you're hearing? Well, you're in luck. Listen to an episode of 2050 Investors and get two more. Two more. Absolutely free. Binge responsibly. Welcome to 2050 Investors, the podcast that deciphers economic and market megatrends to meet tomorrow's challenges. I'm Coco Agbobla, a head of economics, cross-asset and quant research at Société Générale. In this episode of 2050 Investors, we explore the world of advertising, examining how it has influenced our choices, or even free will, shaped cultural identities, and contributed to overconsumption and climate change. We'll look at its role in driving economic growth and shaping corporate brand identities. We also ask, has advertising trapped us into an endless cycle of consumption? And if so, can it be transformed into a force for good? Later in this episode, we'll hear from Thomas Kolster, a marketing and sustainability expert and author of Goodvertising. Thomas will share unique insights from his marketing experience, and he will discuss the future of advertising and how one can reconcile advertising for good with a growth-centered economic system. Let's start our investigation. So, as is tradition, let's start with some basics.
Speaker #1
The origins of advertising.
Speaker #0
Exactly. The word advertising comes from the Latin word advertere, meaning to turn towards. I found some interesting facts online on Wikipedia. Unsurprisingly, advertising is the practice and techniques employed to bring attention to a product or service. But also, Commercial advertisements often aim to increase consumption of their product or services through branding, which associates a product name or image with certain qualities in the minds of consumers.
Speaker #1
So, I was right about the brainwashing angle then.
Speaker #0
Originally, it was about capturing attention. Think of town criers in medieval Europe shouting about fresh bread in the marketplace. But the origins are even older than that.
Speaker #1
So, the art of turning heads was not invented in Europe?
Speaker #0
Not even close. It began in many places. Cave or rock paintings are among the oldest form of commercial advertisements, still seen today in parts of Asia, Africa and South America. The tradition of wall painting can be traced back to Indian rock art from as early as 4000 BC. Egyptians Use papers for sales messages and wall posters. Commercial messages have been discovered in the ruins of Pompeii and ancient Arabia, in ancient Greece and ancient Rome, Lust and fine advertising on papers was common. In ancient China, the earliest known advertising was oral. As recorded in the classic of poetry of bamboo flutes played to self-confectionery, advertisement often takes the form of calligraphic signboards and inked papers.
Speaker #1
A simpler time. No pop-ups. No influencers. Just a guy shouting, fresh fish. Best price.
Speaker #0
True. Then came print ads in the 17th century, followed by billboards, radio jingles, TV commercials, and eventually digital marketing. Today, companies spend billions to ensure their brands are unforgettable.
Speaker #1
We now have million-dollar Super Bowl commercials.
Speaker #0
Yes, along with AI-generated ads and social media influencers convincing you that buying everything and anything will lead to happiness. Beyond the noise, brightly colored billboards. catchy sound effects, advertising influences us at a subconscious level. This is a good transition to our next question. Are we truly free when we buy things or have we been pre-programmed since childhood?
Speaker #1
I think I know the answer to that. Just look at the state of the planet and climate change.
Speaker #0
Fair point. But first, let's try this thought experiment. Imagine walking into a supermarket. You're just here for three things. You think you're in control, making rational choices. But are you?
Speaker #1
Spoiler alert. Your brain is running on autopilot, following scripts installed by decades of advertising.
Speaker #0
Okay, let's put this point to the test. First, you grab a basket and head to the cereal aisle. Your brain says, I want something healthy. But what do you reach for? You scan the shelves, mostly. Porridge? Too boring. And then, bam! Your hand grabs a box of Kellogg's Choco Krispies or Wittebix. Why? Because deep in your brain, there's a childhood ad. Have you had your Wittebix?
Speaker #1
Maybe you remember your kids' preferences because they love Paw Patrol or Peppa Pig.
Speaker #0
Next up, drinks. You're thirsty. Water? Sure. But then your eyes land on a bright orange bottle of Orangina. And suddenly, a voice whispers. Orangina. Shake it to wake it. Or maybe it's Coca-Cola. And you're not just buying a drink. You're buying a memory. A feeling. That first sip isn't just refreshment. It's a warm July afternoon by the ocean. The laughter of friends. The clink of ice in a glass. It's a glow of Christmas light. The magic of Santa's promise. It's the roar. The stadium. The taste of victory. That red can, it's not just a soda. It's comfort. It's nostalgia. And before you even realize it, it's already in your hand.
Speaker #1
Koku, calm down. You sound just like Don Draper in Mad Men.
Speaker #0
Well, this should not come as a surprise, Siri, because Coca-Cola spends over $4 billion a year on average just to remind you that happiness comes in a red can. Reports from Statista.com even showed a marketing budget going from $3.5 billion to over $5 billion over the past 10 years.
Speaker #1
Fascinating. What next?
Speaker #0
Apparel. Sneakers, maybe. You directly head to the Nike corner, of course. Because somewhere in your brain, you associate their logo with Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, and that urge to just do it.
Speaker #1
I think it's time to leave before you end up emptying your bank account.
Speaker #0
That's very thoughtful, Siri. Thank you.
Speaker #1
So, are humans like trained robots pretending to have free will?
Speaker #0
This is a complex philosophical question, Siri. But talking about free will, I came across an intriguing article from the Harvard Business Review entitled Hidden Minds. It discussed a study concluding that 95% of all cognition, the thinking that drives our decisions and behaviors, occurs unconsciously, including consumer decisions.
Speaker #1
Ads don't just inform, they tap into humans' biological and genetic predispositions.
Speaker #0
Ever wonder why McDonald's uses the red and yellow color?
Speaker #1
No, but I'm sure you're gonna tell me.
Speaker #0
An article from Crowdspring.com discusses the history, meaning, and evolution of McDonald's. logo highlighting color psychology. The use of red and yellow in the logo is strategic. Red is stimulating and associated with appetite and energy, while yellow is associated with happiness and friendliness. This combination is visually appealing and psychologically effective in attracting consumers.
Speaker #1
That makes sense. Color, sound and smell are important stimuli that influence the human brain.
Speaker #0
Exactly. Why do perfume ads use sensual imagery? Well, because scent is linked to memory and desire.
Speaker #1
I suppose social media has taken it to another level.
Speaker #0
Have you ever searched for something online and then seen ads for it everywhere? That's AI-driven advertising, tracking, predicting, and influencing your next move. Now, let's see how advertising has evolved beyond selling things to selling emotions and identities. Take Nike's Dream Crazy campaign about women in sports. It wasn't about shoes, it was about empowerment. Another famous example is Apple's Dream Crazy campaign. Think Different campaign. It was about rebellion, creativity, misfits thinking outside the box.
Speaker #1
And then there's Coca-Cola's Open Happiness campaign, because nothing says happiness like carbonated sugar water in a plastic bottle.
Speaker #2
Touche!
Speaker #0
That's the power of branding. You're not just buying a drink, a phone, or sneakers, you're buying a story, a feeling, a belonging.
Speaker #1
So, If advertising can convince you to buy overpriced sneakers, can it also convince you to make sustainable choices?
Speaker #0
That's the big question. Advertising has driven overconsumption, a key driver of global GDP growth. This demand, in turn, required substantial fossil fuel use, contributing to rising greenhouse gas emissions and impacting climate change. These themes have been explored in many of our previous episodes, such as carbon-free calories and fashionomics. Special offer alert. Love what you're hearing? Well, you're in luck. Listen to an episode of 2050 Investors and get two more. Two more. Absolutely free. Binge responsibly. In principle, advertising could also be part of the solution. Consider these statistics from reports by the World Health Organization. 1. Anti-smoking ads have reduced smoking rates by roughly 30 to 40 percent. 2. Drunk driving campaigns have saved thousands of lives. And three, recycling awareness ads have increased participation globally.
Speaker #1
So, instead of pushing more consumption, we could push better consumption?
Speaker #0
Exactly. Imagine fast fashion brands advertising quality over quantity. Car companies spending more ad dollars on electric vehicles than gas guzzlers. Food brands. promoting plant-based diets.
Speaker #1
Sounds great. But are corporations willing to do that?
Speaker #0
Here's the eye-opening figures. According to Statista.com, companies spend $700 billion a year on advertising. The top spenders are Amazon, Procter & Gamble, and Google. In the 1970s, people were exposed to about 500 ads per day. Today, people see roughly 5,000 to 10,000 ads per day. 10,000! I mean, this is huge. There are 5.3 trillion display ads shown online every year. According to studies by the University of South Carolina in 2023, on average, children see 20,000 30-seconds commercials each year. Adults see an average of 2 million of those on a yearly basis. And finally... social media ad revenues generates over $200 billion annually. Let that sink in.
Speaker #1
You should become a social media influencer.
Speaker #0
You bet. But can you imagine a world without ads? No billboards, no pop-ups, no influencers selling you protein powder.
Speaker #1
So, peace and quiet?
Speaker #0
Yes, but also no free YouTube, no free news, no free apps. no free Google search.
Speaker #1
Right. Without ads, many industries would collapse.
Speaker #0
So maybe the future isn't ad-free, but ad-conscious, where marketing helps people make better choices, not just buy more things.
Speaker #1
What will advertising look like in 2050?
Speaker #0
AI-driven, hyper-personalized, but also ethical? Think about the movie Minority Report, where ads are everywhere. One can imagine ads that assist rather than manipulate.
Speaker #1
So, instead of just do it, it'll be just think about it.
Speaker #0
I love it.
Speaker #2
So,
Speaker #0
if advertising has historically driven overconsumption, It could also serve as a powerful tool for promoting more sustainable choices. But is this really feasible considering the strong profit incentives?
Speaker #1
Is that a trick question? I tend to be a pessimist, as they say a pessimist is just an optimist with experience.
Speaker #0
Ouch, that's a bit harsh, Siri. Listen, I'm an optimist, which is why our guest today is someone who truly understands this topic. Thomas Colster. is an expert in marketing and sustainable development. And he has developed the concept of goodvertising in one of his books.
Speaker #2
Hello, Thomas. Thank you so much for joining the show.
Speaker #3
Such a pleasure being here. Good to see you, Coco.
Speaker #2
So could we start with you sharing how your career in the world of advertising began?
Speaker #3
Wow, you know, I was probably one of those odd folks that didn't really dream about career in advertising. I loved writing, I loved creativity, and I just sort of happened to end up in the industry. And to be honest, it was probably the paycheck that pulled me in by the end of the day. So rather a rich copywriter than a poor author, right?
Speaker #2
Yes, it's an interesting incentive. And this is actually a good transition to the second question, because advertising has historically been about selling more. And you've argued that it can be used for good. So how do you shift from a consumption-driven marketing to a purpose-driven marketing without hurting profits? In other words, it's this sort of paradox between value and values.
Speaker #3
I personally had a bit of an awakening around the Climate Summit and turned my career around. And actually, you know, what I recognized was that this is about brand. I think a lot of us forget the power of the brand. That's, you know, the intrinsic most value of a company is actually tied to the brand. We've seen that with Volkswagen and Dieselgate. And so in many respects here, women are much smarter than us men because they actually realize that we are not that rational when we take decisions. So when we look at brands that are value driven, it's because we like those brands. we look at those values and we feel that they resonate with our worldview. And so when you ask people, do you like a Nike? Do you like Adidas? So not understanding the built-in way that brands work. So values are, in fact, what really fundamentally drives value and drives the value of a brand. That's at least my simple belief.
Speaker #2
So that's actually a very important point because many brands are jumping on the sustainability bandwagon. And that's clearly a big trend and there's a lot of pressure by shareholders, etc. And even consumer, as you mentioned. So how do you separate genuine good advertising, which is the title of your book, from greenwashing?
Speaker #3
You know, for me, it was an evolution of my own thinking as well. And I... In 2020, I came out with a new book called The Hero Trap, where I asked myself the question, with so many brands around pitching us to be world-saving heroes in our lives, what brand have in fact created change in my life? And it's also a question to the listeners, what brand have in fact created positive change in your life? That list was very, very short in my life. So fundamentally, I believe that the real authentic brands are those that enable change in our lives, tangible change, maybe make us more healthy. Maybe they teach us financial literacy. Maybe they actually stop preaching about how green they are, but help me live a greener life. So this is really the pinnacle for me of what is authentic and also where you're living your values.
Speaker #2
Yeah, this is excellent. So you're thinking, and this is some of the analysis we've done in the investigation part of the year. Episode whereby it's not about selling products, it's about selling a lifestyle, a values principle, etc. And effectively using advertising to turn you into a better person.
Speaker #3
It's a personal transformation in so many ways, right? When you drive a Volvo, you feel safe. You want to pay for that, especially if you're like a family guy. You feel that that's the brand that appeals to you. So brands that don't understand. the value that fundamentally playing in people's lives are those that get lost and those that go down the avenue that you say where the chip towing into sustainability into diversity and inclusion this is where it goes wrong so the brand should in fact be the hero but the brand should help us be the heroes of our own lives
Speaker #2
Yeah, I like this quote. So this leads me to this next question around AI and data-driven targeting. Advertising is more powerful than ever. And we've seen some statistics like we are being exposed to 10,000 ads a day, which is enormous. And I think a couple of decades ago, it was only a couple of hundreds. So how can we ensure that these tools are used to drive responsible consumer choices rather than exploit human psychology for... excessive consumption.
Speaker #3
Yeah, you're touching something fundamental, right? It's an incredible amount of ad spend today. I mean, when I started, you know, my tenure in advertising, I think we were around 200 billion. Now we're past the 1 trillion US dollars spent on advertising. To be honest, and this might not be the positive message you're looking for, I think we lost that game. As an industry, I don't think we've lived up to that responsibility, to be honest. I think we should, in fact, as an industry, lead that. We should make sure that we are creating the right guardrails, that we are protecting people, that we are giving people a due choice to opt out of the data being shared, etc. And I think... We haven't done that well enough. I think Europe, for sure, is far ahead of many other countries. But by the end of the day, it often comes down to politics, whether you believe in regulation or deregulation. I do think that, you know, the best way forward is always advertising in people's terms.
Speaker #2
I think you hint towards giving people more control on the data. I think there's a hint towards regulation as well as good regulation to some extent. And that probably leads me to the final question. So if we were to fast forward to 2050, what does a world look like where advertising has fully embraced sustainability and, I guess, guardrails, as you mentioned? And then the related question is, can capitalism and good advertising... truly coexist?
Speaker #3
You know, let's acknowledge that, you know, capitalism, depending on how we want to view it historically, is still a fairly new notion in some ways, right? And I think that we've come from a world where capitalism was sort of viewed almost as the world is flat. I think we now understand that we need a fundamentally new view on capitalism, where the world is round, where we look more holistic on... values, where we look more holistic on the cost of social capital, nature capital, etc. So for me, I think we're moving towards a much more progressive and much full understanding of how capitalism can be. I'm definitely pro-capitalism. I just want that all factors are equated in that piece of math that we're trying to do when we put a value on a company. or when we put a value on a product so that has been not the right way doing it so far because ultimately i mean and i say this as a brand guy as an advertising guy i wholeheartedly would love if companies were competing on the creating the best product that serves your needs in the best possible way coco instead of being just being a sort of beauty contest on incremental nonsense well that was quite uh quite insightful um
Speaker #2
Let's, I was about to say, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. But I guess there are ways to find a capitalism that's more responsible with the circular economy and the advertising that help individual be the hero of the story and not just sell products and empty their wallet.
Speaker #3
Kuko, I'm with you there. I think we've already progressed tremendously the last two decades. And. Well, fingers crossed. Let's be optimistic about the future.
Speaker #2
Brilliant. That's an excellent way to end this interview, Thomas. It was a pleasure having you with us on the show. Thanks a lot. And let's keep in touch.
Speaker #0
Thank you.
Speaker #2
Thanks.
Speaker #0
To wrap things up, I'll quote David Ogilvie, the father of advertising, who said, Never write an advertisement which you wouldn't want your family to read.
Speaker #1
Hold on a second, Koku. Wasn't this whole episode just one giant ad for Société Générale Cross-Acid Research?
Speaker #0
Hmm, maybe. At Societe Generale Rassasset Research, we deliver content with impact because your mind is worth it.
Speaker #1
Well played, Koku. Well played.
Speaker #0
Thank you for listening to this episode of 2050 Investors. Thanks to Thomas Kolster for his invaluable insights. I hope this episode has helped you get a sense of the past, present, and future of advertising and how it could be a force for good. You can find the show on your regular streaming apps. If you enjoy the show, help us spread the word. Please take a minute to subscribe, review and rate it. Spotify or Apple podcasts. See you at the next episode. While the following podcast discusses the financial markets, it does not recommend any particular investment decision. If you aren't sure of the merits of any investment decision, please seek professional advice.

About 2050 Investors — Economic and markets megatrends, ahead of 2050’s global sustainability targets

Welcome to 2050 Investors your monthly guide to understanding the intricate connections between finance, globalisation, and ESG.

Join host Kokou Agbo-Bloua, Head of Economics, Cross-Asset & Quant Research at Societe Generale, for an exploration of the economic and market megatrends shaping the present and future, and how these trends might influence our progress to meeting 2050’s challenging global sustainability targets.

In each episode, Kokou deep-dives into the events impacting the economy, financial markets, the planet, and society. Through a magical blend of personal anecdotes, in-depth research and narratives overlaid with music, sound effects, and pop culture references, there’s certainly something for everyone.

Kokou also interviews industry-leading experts, personalities, entrepreneurs and even Nobel prize winners! You will learn from the best on a wide range of subjects on current affairs, market shifts, and economic developments.

If you like 2050 Investors, please leave a five-star review on Apple Podcasts or Spotify. Your support will help us spread the word and reach new audiences. If you’re seeking a brief and entertaining overview of market-related topics and their business and societal implications, subscribe now to stay informed!

Previous episodes of 2050 Investors have explored the post-COVID growth cycle, inflation, ESG-influenced financial assets, changes in the workplace and labour market, climate change, artificial intelligence, greenflation, smart cities, mobility, insurance, the macroeconomic impacts of the war in Ukraine, the food industry, hydrogen versus other renewables, the water cycle, the end of abundance, globalization and international trade, plastic pollution, health care, happiness and economic growth, biodiversity collapse, the fashion and retail industry, the energy transition, and more.

Credits
Presenter & Writer: Kokou Agbo-Bloua. Editor: Vincent Nickelsen, Linda Isker, Jovaney Ashman. Production Designer: Emmanuel Minelle, Radio K7 Creative. Executive Producer : Fanny Giniès. Sound Director: Marc Valenduc. Music: Rone. Graphic Design: Cédric Cazaly.

Although the following podcast discusses the financial markets, it does not recommend any particular investment decision. If you are unsure of the merits of any investment decision, please seek professional advice.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About 2050 Investors — Economic and markets megatrends, ahead of 2050’s global sustainability targets

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

There's certainly something for everyone in this episode!

About this show

Welcome to 2050 Investors, your monthly guide to understanding the intricate connections between finance, globalisation, and ESG.

Previous episodes of 2050 Investors have explored ESG, climate change, AI, greenflation, globalization, plastic pollution, food, healthcare, biodiversity and more.

Credits

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Hi Siri, can you solve this riddle? Discover the happiest place on earth, which should open happiness. Because you're worth it. Think different and just do it.
Speaker #1
Hum, I'm not sure I can solve it. I need a hint.
Speaker #0
Gotcha! I have combined five of the most popular slogans from some of the world's most famous brands to see whether you would recognize them.
Speaker #1
Really?
Speaker #0
I'll give it another go. And put our audience to the test too. I'll repeat them and you'll have to guess the brand names. Ready?
Speaker #1
Okay, go for it.
Speaker #0
Discover the happiest place on earth, which should open happiness. Because you're worth it. Think different and just do it. Time's up. So, did you get them?
Speaker #1
Duh, of course. You think I live in a cave. That's Disneyland. Coca-Cola. L'Oreal, Apple and Nike.
Speaker #0
Spot on. And data from connected smartphones suggests that 98.7% of listeners got the right answers too.
Speaker #1
So, what's the point of all of this?
Speaker #0
Siri, this clearly shows that advertising has left its mark on our collective memories. Or maybe we'll just have excellent recall.
Speaker #1
Well, isn't this just plain brainwashing by advertising? Hmm,
Speaker #0
that's one way to look at it. These slogans are engineered. to stick in our brains like a catchy pop song. Here's the thing. Advertising doesn't just sell products. It sells ideas, emotions, and even identities through cleverly crafted words and storytelling.
Speaker #1
And I guess that's exactly what we're diving into today.
Speaker #0
As insightful as always, Siri. But first, a quick commercial break. Let's take a moment to hear from our advertisers. Special offer alert. Love what you're hearing? Well, you're in luck. Listen to an episode of 2050 Investors and get two more. Two more. Absolutely free. Binge responsibly. Welcome to 2050 Investors, the podcast that deciphers economic and market megatrends to meet tomorrow's challenges. I'm Coco Agbobla, a head of economics, cross-asset and quant research at Société Générale. In this episode of 2050 Investors, we explore the world of advertising, examining how it has influenced our choices, or even free will, shaped cultural identities, and contributed to overconsumption and climate change. We'll look at its role in driving economic growth and shaping corporate brand identities. We also ask, has advertising trapped us into an endless cycle of consumption? And if so, can it be transformed into a force for good? Later in this episode, we'll hear from Thomas Kolster, a marketing and sustainability expert and author of Goodvertising. Thomas will share unique insights from his marketing experience, and he will discuss the future of advertising and how one can reconcile advertising for good with a growth-centered economic system. Let's start our investigation. So, as is tradition, let's start with some basics.
Speaker #1
The origins of advertising.
Speaker #0
Exactly. The word advertising comes from the Latin word advertere, meaning to turn towards. I found some interesting facts online on Wikipedia. Unsurprisingly, advertising is the practice and techniques employed to bring attention to a product or service. But also, Commercial advertisements often aim to increase consumption of their product or services through branding, which associates a product name or image with certain qualities in the minds of consumers.
Speaker #1
So, I was right about the brainwashing angle then.
Speaker #0
Originally, it was about capturing attention. Think of town criers in medieval Europe shouting about fresh bread in the marketplace. But the origins are even older than that.
Speaker #1
So, the art of turning heads was not invented in Europe?
Speaker #0
Not even close. It began in many places. Cave or rock paintings are among the oldest form of commercial advertisements, still seen today in parts of Asia, Africa and South America. The tradition of wall painting can be traced back to Indian rock art from as early as 4000 BC. Egyptians Use papers for sales messages and wall posters. Commercial messages have been discovered in the ruins of Pompeii and ancient Arabia, in ancient Greece and ancient Rome, Lust and fine advertising on papers was common. In ancient China, the earliest known advertising was oral. As recorded in the classic of poetry of bamboo flutes played to self-confectionery, advertisement often takes the form of calligraphic signboards and inked papers.
Speaker #1
A simpler time. No pop-ups. No influencers. Just a guy shouting, fresh fish. Best price.
Speaker #0
True. Then came print ads in the 17th century, followed by billboards, radio jingles, TV commercials, and eventually digital marketing. Today, companies spend billions to ensure their brands are unforgettable.
Speaker #1
We now have million-dollar Super Bowl commercials.
Speaker #0
Yes, along with AI-generated ads and social media influencers convincing you that buying everything and anything will lead to happiness. Beyond the noise, brightly colored billboards. catchy sound effects, advertising influences us at a subconscious level. This is a good transition to our next question. Are we truly free when we buy things or have we been pre-programmed since childhood?
Speaker #1
I think I know the answer to that. Just look at the state of the planet and climate change.
Speaker #0
Fair point. But first, let's try this thought experiment. Imagine walking into a supermarket. You're just here for three things. You think you're in control, making rational choices. But are you?
Speaker #1
Spoiler alert. Your brain is running on autopilot, following scripts installed by decades of advertising.
Speaker #0
Okay, let's put this point to the test. First, you grab a basket and head to the cereal aisle. Your brain says, I want something healthy. But what do you reach for? You scan the shelves, mostly. Porridge? Too boring. And then, bam! Your hand grabs a box of Kellogg's Choco Krispies or Wittebix. Why? Because deep in your brain, there's a childhood ad. Have you had your Wittebix?
Speaker #1
Maybe you remember your kids' preferences because they love Paw Patrol or Peppa Pig.
Speaker #0
Next up, drinks. You're thirsty. Water? Sure. But then your eyes land on a bright orange bottle of Orangina. And suddenly, a voice whispers. Orangina. Shake it to wake it. Or maybe it's Coca-Cola. And you're not just buying a drink. You're buying a memory. A feeling. That first sip isn't just refreshment. It's a warm July afternoon by the ocean. The laughter of friends. The clink of ice in a glass. It's a glow of Christmas light. The magic of Santa's promise. It's the roar. The stadium. The taste of victory. That red can, it's not just a soda. It's comfort. It's nostalgia. And before you even realize it, it's already in your hand.
Speaker #1
Koku, calm down. You sound just like Don Draper in Mad Men.
Speaker #0
Well, this should not come as a surprise, Siri, because Coca-Cola spends over $4 billion a year on average just to remind you that happiness comes in a red can. Reports from Statista.com even showed a marketing budget going from $3.5 billion to over $5 billion over the past 10 years.
Speaker #1
Fascinating. What next?
Speaker #0
Apparel. Sneakers, maybe. You directly head to the Nike corner, of course. Because somewhere in your brain, you associate their logo with Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, and that urge to just do it.
Speaker #1
I think it's time to leave before you end up emptying your bank account.
Speaker #0
That's very thoughtful, Siri. Thank you.
Speaker #1
So, are humans like trained robots pretending to have free will?
Speaker #0
This is a complex philosophical question, Siri. But talking about free will, I came across an intriguing article from the Harvard Business Review entitled Hidden Minds. It discussed a study concluding that 95% of all cognition, the thinking that drives our decisions and behaviors, occurs unconsciously, including consumer decisions.
Speaker #1
Ads don't just inform, they tap into humans' biological and genetic predispositions.
Speaker #0
Ever wonder why McDonald's uses the red and yellow color?
Speaker #1
No, but I'm sure you're gonna tell me.
Speaker #0
An article from Crowdspring.com discusses the history, meaning, and evolution of McDonald's. logo highlighting color psychology. The use of red and yellow in the logo is strategic. Red is stimulating and associated with appetite and energy, while yellow is associated with happiness and friendliness. This combination is visually appealing and psychologically effective in attracting consumers.
Speaker #1
That makes sense. Color, sound and smell are important stimuli that influence the human brain.
Speaker #0
Exactly. Why do perfume ads use sensual imagery? Well, because scent is linked to memory and desire.
Speaker #1
I suppose social media has taken it to another level.
Speaker #0
Have you ever searched for something online and then seen ads for it everywhere? That's AI-driven advertising, tracking, predicting, and influencing your next move. Now, let's see how advertising has evolved beyond selling things to selling emotions and identities. Take Nike's Dream Crazy campaign about women in sports. It wasn't about shoes, it was about empowerment. Another famous example is Apple's Dream Crazy campaign. Think Different campaign. It was about rebellion, creativity, misfits thinking outside the box.
Speaker #1
And then there's Coca-Cola's Open Happiness campaign, because nothing says happiness like carbonated sugar water in a plastic bottle.
Speaker #2
Touche!
Speaker #0
That's the power of branding. You're not just buying a drink, a phone, or sneakers, you're buying a story, a feeling, a belonging.
Speaker #1
So, If advertising can convince you to buy overpriced sneakers, can it also convince you to make sustainable choices?
Speaker #0
That's the big question. Advertising has driven overconsumption, a key driver of global GDP growth. This demand, in turn, required substantial fossil fuel use, contributing to rising greenhouse gas emissions and impacting climate change. These themes have been explored in many of our previous episodes, such as carbon-free calories and fashionomics. Special offer alert. Love what you're hearing? Well, you're in luck. Listen to an episode of 2050 Investors and get two more. Two more. Absolutely free. Binge responsibly. In principle, advertising could also be part of the solution. Consider these statistics from reports by the World Health Organization. 1. Anti-smoking ads have reduced smoking rates by roughly 30 to 40 percent. 2. Drunk driving campaigns have saved thousands of lives. And three, recycling awareness ads have increased participation globally.
Speaker #1
So, instead of pushing more consumption, we could push better consumption?
Speaker #0
Exactly. Imagine fast fashion brands advertising quality over quantity. Car companies spending more ad dollars on electric vehicles than gas guzzlers. Food brands. promoting plant-based diets.
Speaker #1
Sounds great. But are corporations willing to do that?
Speaker #0
Here's the eye-opening figures. According to Statista.com, companies spend $700 billion a year on advertising. The top spenders are Amazon, Procter & Gamble, and Google. In the 1970s, people were exposed to about 500 ads per day. Today, people see roughly 5,000 to 10,000 ads per day. 10,000! I mean, this is huge. There are 5.3 trillion display ads shown online every year. According to studies by the University of South Carolina in 2023, on average, children see 20,000 30-seconds commercials each year. Adults see an average of 2 million of those on a yearly basis. And finally... social media ad revenues generates over $200 billion annually. Let that sink in.
Speaker #1
You should become a social media influencer.
Speaker #0
You bet. But can you imagine a world without ads? No billboards, no pop-ups, no influencers selling you protein powder.
Speaker #1
So, peace and quiet?
Speaker #0
Yes, but also no free YouTube, no free news, no free apps. no free Google search.
Speaker #1
Right. Without ads, many industries would collapse.
Speaker #0
So maybe the future isn't ad-free, but ad-conscious, where marketing helps people make better choices, not just buy more things.
Speaker #1
What will advertising look like in 2050?
Speaker #0
AI-driven, hyper-personalized, but also ethical? Think about the movie Minority Report, where ads are everywhere. One can imagine ads that assist rather than manipulate.
Speaker #1
So, instead of just do it, it'll be just think about it.
Speaker #0
I love it.
Speaker #2
So,
Speaker #0
if advertising has historically driven overconsumption, It could also serve as a powerful tool for promoting more sustainable choices. But is this really feasible considering the strong profit incentives?
Speaker #1
Is that a trick question? I tend to be a pessimist, as they say a pessimist is just an optimist with experience.
Speaker #0
Ouch, that's a bit harsh, Siri. Listen, I'm an optimist, which is why our guest today is someone who truly understands this topic. Thomas Colster. is an expert in marketing and sustainable development. And he has developed the concept of goodvertising in one of his books.
Speaker #2
Hello, Thomas. Thank you so much for joining the show.
Speaker #3
Such a pleasure being here. Good to see you, Coco.
Speaker #2
So could we start with you sharing how your career in the world of advertising began?
Speaker #3
Wow, you know, I was probably one of those odd folks that didn't really dream about career in advertising. I loved writing, I loved creativity, and I just sort of happened to end up in the industry. And to be honest, it was probably the paycheck that pulled me in by the end of the day. So rather a rich copywriter than a poor author, right?
Speaker #2
Yes, it's an interesting incentive. And this is actually a good transition to the second question, because advertising has historically been about selling more. And you've argued that it can be used for good. So how do you shift from a consumption-driven marketing to a purpose-driven marketing without hurting profits? In other words, it's this sort of paradox between value and values.
Speaker #3
I personally had a bit of an awakening around the Climate Summit and turned my career around. And actually, you know, what I recognized was that this is about brand. I think a lot of us forget the power of the brand. That's, you know, the intrinsic most value of a company is actually tied to the brand. We've seen that with Volkswagen and Dieselgate. And so in many respects here, women are much smarter than us men because they actually realize that we are not that rational when we take decisions. So when we look at brands that are value driven, it's because we like those brands. we look at those values and we feel that they resonate with our worldview. And so when you ask people, do you like a Nike? Do you like Adidas? So not understanding the built-in way that brands work. So values are, in fact, what really fundamentally drives value and drives the value of a brand. That's at least my simple belief.
Speaker #2
So that's actually a very important point because many brands are jumping on the sustainability bandwagon. And that's clearly a big trend and there's a lot of pressure by shareholders, etc. And even consumer, as you mentioned. So how do you separate genuine good advertising, which is the title of your book, from greenwashing?
Speaker #3
You know, for me, it was an evolution of my own thinking as well. And I... In 2020, I came out with a new book called The Hero Trap, where I asked myself the question, with so many brands around pitching us to be world-saving heroes in our lives, what brand have in fact created change in my life? And it's also a question to the listeners, what brand have in fact created positive change in your life? That list was very, very short in my life. So fundamentally, I believe that the real authentic brands are those that enable change in our lives, tangible change, maybe make us more healthy. Maybe they teach us financial literacy. Maybe they actually stop preaching about how green they are, but help me live a greener life. So this is really the pinnacle for me of what is authentic and also where you're living your values.
Speaker #2
Yeah, this is excellent. So you're thinking, and this is some of the analysis we've done in the investigation part of the year. Episode whereby it's not about selling products, it's about selling a lifestyle, a values principle, etc. And effectively using advertising to turn you into a better person.
Speaker #3
It's a personal transformation in so many ways, right? When you drive a Volvo, you feel safe. You want to pay for that, especially if you're like a family guy. You feel that that's the brand that appeals to you. So brands that don't understand. the value that fundamentally playing in people's lives are those that get lost and those that go down the avenue that you say where the chip towing into sustainability into diversity and inclusion this is where it goes wrong so the brand should in fact be the hero but the brand should help us be the heroes of our own lives
Speaker #2
Yeah, I like this quote. So this leads me to this next question around AI and data-driven targeting. Advertising is more powerful than ever. And we've seen some statistics like we are being exposed to 10,000 ads a day, which is enormous. And I think a couple of decades ago, it was only a couple of hundreds. So how can we ensure that these tools are used to drive responsible consumer choices rather than exploit human psychology for... excessive consumption.
Speaker #3
Yeah, you're touching something fundamental, right? It's an incredible amount of ad spend today. I mean, when I started, you know, my tenure in advertising, I think we were around 200 billion. Now we're past the 1 trillion US dollars spent on advertising. To be honest, and this might not be the positive message you're looking for, I think we lost that game. As an industry, I don't think we've lived up to that responsibility, to be honest. I think we should, in fact, as an industry, lead that. We should make sure that we are creating the right guardrails, that we are protecting people, that we are giving people a due choice to opt out of the data being shared, etc. And I think... We haven't done that well enough. I think Europe, for sure, is far ahead of many other countries. But by the end of the day, it often comes down to politics, whether you believe in regulation or deregulation. I do think that, you know, the best way forward is always advertising in people's terms.
Speaker #2
I think you hint towards giving people more control on the data. I think there's a hint towards regulation as well as good regulation to some extent. And that probably leads me to the final question. So if we were to fast forward to 2050, what does a world look like where advertising has fully embraced sustainability and, I guess, guardrails, as you mentioned? And then the related question is, can capitalism and good advertising... truly coexist?
Speaker #3
You know, let's acknowledge that, you know, capitalism, depending on how we want to view it historically, is still a fairly new notion in some ways, right? And I think that we've come from a world where capitalism was sort of viewed almost as the world is flat. I think we now understand that we need a fundamentally new view on capitalism, where the world is round, where we look more holistic on... values, where we look more holistic on the cost of social capital, nature capital, etc. So for me, I think we're moving towards a much more progressive and much full understanding of how capitalism can be. I'm definitely pro-capitalism. I just want that all factors are equated in that piece of math that we're trying to do when we put a value on a company. or when we put a value on a product so that has been not the right way doing it so far because ultimately i mean and i say this as a brand guy as an advertising guy i wholeheartedly would love if companies were competing on the creating the best product that serves your needs in the best possible way coco instead of being just being a sort of beauty contest on incremental nonsense well that was quite uh quite insightful um
Speaker #2
Let's, I was about to say, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. But I guess there are ways to find a capitalism that's more responsible with the circular economy and the advertising that help individual be the hero of the story and not just sell products and empty their wallet.
Speaker #3
Kuko, I'm with you there. I think we've already progressed tremendously the last two decades. And. Well, fingers crossed. Let's be optimistic about the future.
Speaker #2
Brilliant. That's an excellent way to end this interview, Thomas. It was a pleasure having you with us on the show. Thanks a lot. And let's keep in touch.
Speaker #0
Thank you.
Speaker #2
Thanks.
Speaker #0
To wrap things up, I'll quote David Ogilvie, the father of advertising, who said, Never write an advertisement which you wouldn't want your family to read.
Speaker #1
Hold on a second, Koku. Wasn't this whole episode just one giant ad for Société Générale Cross-Acid Research?
Speaker #0
Hmm, maybe. At Societe Generale Rassasset Research, we deliver content with impact because your mind is worth it.
Speaker #1
Well played, Koku. Well played.
Speaker #0
Thank you for listening to this episode of 2050 Investors. Thanks to Thomas Kolster for his invaluable insights. I hope this episode has helped you get a sense of the past, present, and future of advertising and how it could be a force for good. You can find the show on your regular streaming apps. If you enjoy the show, help us spread the word. Please take a minute to subscribe, review and rate it. Spotify or Apple podcasts. See you at the next episode. While the following podcast discusses the financial markets, it does not recommend any particular investment decision. If you aren't sure of the merits of any investment decision, please seek professional advice.

About 2050 Investors — Economic and markets megatrends, ahead of 2050’s global sustainability targets

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Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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There's certainly something for everyone in this episode!

About this show

Welcome to 2050 Investors, your monthly guide to understanding the intricate connections between finance, globalisation, and ESG.

Previous episodes of 2050 Investors have explored ESG, climate change, AI, greenflation, globalization, plastic pollution, food, healthcare, biodiversity and more.

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Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Hi Siri, can you solve this riddle? Discover the happiest place on earth, which should open happiness. Because you're worth it. Think different and just do it.
Speaker #1
Hum, I'm not sure I can solve it. I need a hint.
Speaker #0
Gotcha! I have combined five of the most popular slogans from some of the world's most famous brands to see whether you would recognize them.
Speaker #1
Really?
Speaker #0
I'll give it another go. And put our audience to the test too. I'll repeat them and you'll have to guess the brand names. Ready?
Speaker #1
Okay, go for it.
Speaker #0
Discover the happiest place on earth, which should open happiness. Because you're worth it. Think different and just do it. Time's up. So, did you get them?
Speaker #1
Duh, of course. You think I live in a cave. That's Disneyland. Coca-Cola. L'Oreal, Apple and Nike.
Speaker #0
Spot on. And data from connected smartphones suggests that 98.7% of listeners got the right answers too.
Speaker #1
So, what's the point of all of this?
Speaker #0
Siri, this clearly shows that advertising has left its mark on our collective memories. Or maybe we'll just have excellent recall.
Speaker #1
Well, isn't this just plain brainwashing by advertising? Hmm,
Speaker #0
that's one way to look at it. These slogans are engineered. to stick in our brains like a catchy pop song. Here's the thing. Advertising doesn't just sell products. It sells ideas, emotions, and even identities through cleverly crafted words and storytelling.
Speaker #1
And I guess that's exactly what we're diving into today.
Speaker #0
As insightful as always, Siri. But first, a quick commercial break. Let's take a moment to hear from our advertisers. Special offer alert. Love what you're hearing? Well, you're in luck. Listen to an episode of 2050 Investors and get two more. Two more. Absolutely free. Binge responsibly. Welcome to 2050 Investors, the podcast that deciphers economic and market megatrends to meet tomorrow's challenges. I'm Coco Agbobla, a head of economics, cross-asset and quant research at Société Générale. In this episode of 2050 Investors, we explore the world of advertising, examining how it has influenced our choices, or even free will, shaped cultural identities, and contributed to overconsumption and climate change. We'll look at its role in driving economic growth and shaping corporate brand identities. We also ask, has advertising trapped us into an endless cycle of consumption? And if so, can it be transformed into a force for good? Later in this episode, we'll hear from Thomas Kolster, a marketing and sustainability expert and author of Goodvertising. Thomas will share unique insights from his marketing experience, and he will discuss the future of advertising and how one can reconcile advertising for good with a growth-centered economic system. Let's start our investigation. So, as is tradition, let's start with some basics.
Speaker #1
The origins of advertising.
Speaker #0
Exactly. The word advertising comes from the Latin word advertere, meaning to turn towards. I found some interesting facts online on Wikipedia. Unsurprisingly, advertising is the practice and techniques employed to bring attention to a product or service. But also, Commercial advertisements often aim to increase consumption of their product or services through branding, which associates a product name or image with certain qualities in the minds of consumers.
Speaker #1
So, I was right about the brainwashing angle then.
Speaker #0
Originally, it was about capturing attention. Think of town criers in medieval Europe shouting about fresh bread in the marketplace. But the origins are even older than that.
Speaker #1
So, the art of turning heads was not invented in Europe?
Speaker #0
Not even close. It began in many places. Cave or rock paintings are among the oldest form of commercial advertisements, still seen today in parts of Asia, Africa and South America. The tradition of wall painting can be traced back to Indian rock art from as early as 4000 BC. Egyptians Use papers for sales messages and wall posters. Commercial messages have been discovered in the ruins of Pompeii and ancient Arabia, in ancient Greece and ancient Rome, Lust and fine advertising on papers was common. In ancient China, the earliest known advertising was oral. As recorded in the classic of poetry of bamboo flutes played to self-confectionery, advertisement often takes the form of calligraphic signboards and inked papers.
Speaker #1
A simpler time. No pop-ups. No influencers. Just a guy shouting, fresh fish. Best price.
Speaker #0
True. Then came print ads in the 17th century, followed by billboards, radio jingles, TV commercials, and eventually digital marketing. Today, companies spend billions to ensure their brands are unforgettable.
Speaker #1
We now have million-dollar Super Bowl commercials.
Speaker #0
Yes, along with AI-generated ads and social media influencers convincing you that buying everything and anything will lead to happiness. Beyond the noise, brightly colored billboards. catchy sound effects, advertising influences us at a subconscious level. This is a good transition to our next question. Are we truly free when we buy things or have we been pre-programmed since childhood?
Speaker #1
I think I know the answer to that. Just look at the state of the planet and climate change.
Speaker #0
Fair point. But first, let's try this thought experiment. Imagine walking into a supermarket. You're just here for three things. You think you're in control, making rational choices. But are you?
Speaker #1
Spoiler alert. Your brain is running on autopilot, following scripts installed by decades of advertising.
Speaker #0
Okay, let's put this point to the test. First, you grab a basket and head to the cereal aisle. Your brain says, I want something healthy. But what do you reach for? You scan the shelves, mostly. Porridge? Too boring. And then, bam! Your hand grabs a box of Kellogg's Choco Krispies or Wittebix. Why? Because deep in your brain, there's a childhood ad. Have you had your Wittebix?
Speaker #1
Maybe you remember your kids' preferences because they love Paw Patrol or Peppa Pig.
Speaker #0
Next up, drinks. You're thirsty. Water? Sure. But then your eyes land on a bright orange bottle of Orangina. And suddenly, a voice whispers. Orangina. Shake it to wake it. Or maybe it's Coca-Cola. And you're not just buying a drink. You're buying a memory. A feeling. That first sip isn't just refreshment. It's a warm July afternoon by the ocean. The laughter of friends. The clink of ice in a glass. It's a glow of Christmas light. The magic of Santa's promise. It's the roar. The stadium. The taste of victory. That red can, it's not just a soda. It's comfort. It's nostalgia. And before you even realize it, it's already in your hand.
Speaker #1
Koku, calm down. You sound just like Don Draper in Mad Men.
Speaker #0
Well, this should not come as a surprise, Siri, because Coca-Cola spends over $4 billion a year on average just to remind you that happiness comes in a red can. Reports from Statista.com even showed a marketing budget going from $3.5 billion to over $5 billion over the past 10 years.
Speaker #1
Fascinating. What next?
Speaker #0
Apparel. Sneakers, maybe. You directly head to the Nike corner, of course. Because somewhere in your brain, you associate their logo with Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, and that urge to just do it.
Speaker #1
I think it's time to leave before you end up emptying your bank account.
Speaker #0
That's very thoughtful, Siri. Thank you.
Speaker #1
So, are humans like trained robots pretending to have free will?
Speaker #0
This is a complex philosophical question, Siri. But talking about free will, I came across an intriguing article from the Harvard Business Review entitled Hidden Minds. It discussed a study concluding that 95% of all cognition, the thinking that drives our decisions and behaviors, occurs unconsciously, including consumer decisions.
Speaker #1
Ads don't just inform, they tap into humans' biological and genetic predispositions.
Speaker #0
Ever wonder why McDonald's uses the red and yellow color?
Speaker #1
No, but I'm sure you're gonna tell me.
Speaker #0
An article from Crowdspring.com discusses the history, meaning, and evolution of McDonald's. logo highlighting color psychology. The use of red and yellow in the logo is strategic. Red is stimulating and associated with appetite and energy, while yellow is associated with happiness and friendliness. This combination is visually appealing and psychologically effective in attracting consumers.
Speaker #1
That makes sense. Color, sound and smell are important stimuli that influence the human brain.
Speaker #0
Exactly. Why do perfume ads use sensual imagery? Well, because scent is linked to memory and desire.
Speaker #1
I suppose social media has taken it to another level.
Speaker #0
Have you ever searched for something online and then seen ads for it everywhere? That's AI-driven advertising, tracking, predicting, and influencing your next move. Now, let's see how advertising has evolved beyond selling things to selling emotions and identities. Take Nike's Dream Crazy campaign about women in sports. It wasn't about shoes, it was about empowerment. Another famous example is Apple's Dream Crazy campaign. Think Different campaign. It was about rebellion, creativity, misfits thinking outside the box.
Speaker #1
And then there's Coca-Cola's Open Happiness campaign, because nothing says happiness like carbonated sugar water in a plastic bottle.
Speaker #2
Touche!
Speaker #0
That's the power of branding. You're not just buying a drink, a phone, or sneakers, you're buying a story, a feeling, a belonging.
Speaker #1
So, If advertising can convince you to buy overpriced sneakers, can it also convince you to make sustainable choices?
Speaker #0
That's the big question. Advertising has driven overconsumption, a key driver of global GDP growth. This demand, in turn, required substantial fossil fuel use, contributing to rising greenhouse gas emissions and impacting climate change. These themes have been explored in many of our previous episodes, such as carbon-free calories and fashionomics. Special offer alert. Love what you're hearing? Well, you're in luck. Listen to an episode of 2050 Investors and get two more. Two more. Absolutely free. Binge responsibly. In principle, advertising could also be part of the solution. Consider these statistics from reports by the World Health Organization. 1. Anti-smoking ads have reduced smoking rates by roughly 30 to 40 percent. 2. Drunk driving campaigns have saved thousands of lives. And three, recycling awareness ads have increased participation globally.
Speaker #1
So, instead of pushing more consumption, we could push better consumption?
Speaker #0
Exactly. Imagine fast fashion brands advertising quality over quantity. Car companies spending more ad dollars on electric vehicles than gas guzzlers. Food brands. promoting plant-based diets.
Speaker #1
Sounds great. But are corporations willing to do that?
Speaker #0
Here's the eye-opening figures. According to Statista.com, companies spend $700 billion a year on advertising. The top spenders are Amazon, Procter & Gamble, and Google. In the 1970s, people were exposed to about 500 ads per day. Today, people see roughly 5,000 to 10,000 ads per day. 10,000! I mean, this is huge. There are 5.3 trillion display ads shown online every year. According to studies by the University of South Carolina in 2023, on average, children see 20,000 30-seconds commercials each year. Adults see an average of 2 million of those on a yearly basis. And finally... social media ad revenues generates over $200 billion annually. Let that sink in.
Speaker #1
You should become a social media influencer.
Speaker #0
You bet. But can you imagine a world without ads? No billboards, no pop-ups, no influencers selling you protein powder.
Speaker #1
So, peace and quiet?
Speaker #0
Yes, but also no free YouTube, no free news, no free apps. no free Google search.
Speaker #1
Right. Without ads, many industries would collapse.
Speaker #0
So maybe the future isn't ad-free, but ad-conscious, where marketing helps people make better choices, not just buy more things.
Speaker #1
What will advertising look like in 2050?
Speaker #0
AI-driven, hyper-personalized, but also ethical? Think about the movie Minority Report, where ads are everywhere. One can imagine ads that assist rather than manipulate.
Speaker #1
So, instead of just do it, it'll be just think about it.
Speaker #0
I love it.
Speaker #2
So,
Speaker #0
if advertising has historically driven overconsumption, It could also serve as a powerful tool for promoting more sustainable choices. But is this really feasible considering the strong profit incentives?
Speaker #1
Is that a trick question? I tend to be a pessimist, as they say a pessimist is just an optimist with experience.
Speaker #0
Ouch, that's a bit harsh, Siri. Listen, I'm an optimist, which is why our guest today is someone who truly understands this topic. Thomas Colster. is an expert in marketing and sustainable development. And he has developed the concept of goodvertising in one of his books.
Speaker #2
Hello, Thomas. Thank you so much for joining the show.
Speaker #3
Such a pleasure being here. Good to see you, Coco.
Speaker #2
So could we start with you sharing how your career in the world of advertising began?
Speaker #3
Wow, you know, I was probably one of those odd folks that didn't really dream about career in advertising. I loved writing, I loved creativity, and I just sort of happened to end up in the industry. And to be honest, it was probably the paycheck that pulled me in by the end of the day. So rather a rich copywriter than a poor author, right?
Speaker #2
Yes, it's an interesting incentive. And this is actually a good transition to the second question, because advertising has historically been about selling more. And you've argued that it can be used for good. So how do you shift from a consumption-driven marketing to a purpose-driven marketing without hurting profits? In other words, it's this sort of paradox between value and values.
Speaker #3
I personally had a bit of an awakening around the Climate Summit and turned my career around. And actually, you know, what I recognized was that this is about brand. I think a lot of us forget the power of the brand. That's, you know, the intrinsic most value of a company is actually tied to the brand. We've seen that with Volkswagen and Dieselgate. And so in many respects here, women are much smarter than us men because they actually realize that we are not that rational when we take decisions. So when we look at brands that are value driven, it's because we like those brands. we look at those values and we feel that they resonate with our worldview. And so when you ask people, do you like a Nike? Do you like Adidas? So not understanding the built-in way that brands work. So values are, in fact, what really fundamentally drives value and drives the value of a brand. That's at least my simple belief.
Speaker #2
So that's actually a very important point because many brands are jumping on the sustainability bandwagon. And that's clearly a big trend and there's a lot of pressure by shareholders, etc. And even consumer, as you mentioned. So how do you separate genuine good advertising, which is the title of your book, from greenwashing?
Speaker #3
You know, for me, it was an evolution of my own thinking as well. And I... In 2020, I came out with a new book called The Hero Trap, where I asked myself the question, with so many brands around pitching us to be world-saving heroes in our lives, what brand have in fact created change in my life? And it's also a question to the listeners, what brand have in fact created positive change in your life? That list was very, very short in my life. So fundamentally, I believe that the real authentic brands are those that enable change in our lives, tangible change, maybe make us more healthy. Maybe they teach us financial literacy. Maybe they actually stop preaching about how green they are, but help me live a greener life. So this is really the pinnacle for me of what is authentic and also where you're living your values.
Speaker #2
Yeah, this is excellent. So you're thinking, and this is some of the analysis we've done in the investigation part of the year. Episode whereby it's not about selling products, it's about selling a lifestyle, a values principle, etc. And effectively using advertising to turn you into a better person.
Speaker #3
It's a personal transformation in so many ways, right? When you drive a Volvo, you feel safe. You want to pay for that, especially if you're like a family guy. You feel that that's the brand that appeals to you. So brands that don't understand. the value that fundamentally playing in people's lives are those that get lost and those that go down the avenue that you say where the chip towing into sustainability into diversity and inclusion this is where it goes wrong so the brand should in fact be the hero but the brand should help us be the heroes of our own lives
Speaker #2
Yeah, I like this quote. So this leads me to this next question around AI and data-driven targeting. Advertising is more powerful than ever. And we've seen some statistics like we are being exposed to 10,000 ads a day, which is enormous. And I think a couple of decades ago, it was only a couple of hundreds. So how can we ensure that these tools are used to drive responsible consumer choices rather than exploit human psychology for... excessive consumption.
Speaker #3
Yeah, you're touching something fundamental, right? It's an incredible amount of ad spend today. I mean, when I started, you know, my tenure in advertising, I think we were around 200 billion. Now we're past the 1 trillion US dollars spent on advertising. To be honest, and this might not be the positive message you're looking for, I think we lost that game. As an industry, I don't think we've lived up to that responsibility, to be honest. I think we should, in fact, as an industry, lead that. We should make sure that we are creating the right guardrails, that we are protecting people, that we are giving people a due choice to opt out of the data being shared, etc. And I think... We haven't done that well enough. I think Europe, for sure, is far ahead of many other countries. But by the end of the day, it often comes down to politics, whether you believe in regulation or deregulation. I do think that, you know, the best way forward is always advertising in people's terms.
Speaker #2
I think you hint towards giving people more control on the data. I think there's a hint towards regulation as well as good regulation to some extent. And that probably leads me to the final question. So if we were to fast forward to 2050, what does a world look like where advertising has fully embraced sustainability and, I guess, guardrails, as you mentioned? And then the related question is, can capitalism and good advertising... truly coexist?
Speaker #3
You know, let's acknowledge that, you know, capitalism, depending on how we want to view it historically, is still a fairly new notion in some ways, right? And I think that we've come from a world where capitalism was sort of viewed almost as the world is flat. I think we now understand that we need a fundamentally new view on capitalism, where the world is round, where we look more holistic on... values, where we look more holistic on the cost of social capital, nature capital, etc. So for me, I think we're moving towards a much more progressive and much full understanding of how capitalism can be. I'm definitely pro-capitalism. I just want that all factors are equated in that piece of math that we're trying to do when we put a value on a company. or when we put a value on a product so that has been not the right way doing it so far because ultimately i mean and i say this as a brand guy as an advertising guy i wholeheartedly would love if companies were competing on the creating the best product that serves your needs in the best possible way coco instead of being just being a sort of beauty contest on incremental nonsense well that was quite uh quite insightful um
Speaker #2
Let's, I was about to say, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. But I guess there are ways to find a capitalism that's more responsible with the circular economy and the advertising that help individual be the hero of the story and not just sell products and empty their wallet.
Speaker #3
Kuko, I'm with you there. I think we've already progressed tremendously the last two decades. And. Well, fingers crossed. Let's be optimistic about the future.
Speaker #2
Brilliant. That's an excellent way to end this interview, Thomas. It was a pleasure having you with us on the show. Thanks a lot. And let's keep in touch.
Speaker #0
Thank you.
Speaker #2
Thanks.
Speaker #0
To wrap things up, I'll quote David Ogilvie, the father of advertising, who said, Never write an advertisement which you wouldn't want your family to read.
Speaker #1
Hold on a second, Koku. Wasn't this whole episode just one giant ad for Société Générale Cross-Acid Research?
Speaker #0
Hmm, maybe. At Societe Generale Rassasset Research, we deliver content with impact because your mind is worth it.
Speaker #1
Well played, Koku. Well played.
Speaker #0
Thank you for listening to this episode of 2050 Investors. Thanks to Thomas Kolster for his invaluable insights. I hope this episode has helped you get a sense of the past, present, and future of advertising and how it could be a force for good. You can find the show on your regular streaming apps. If you enjoy the show, help us spread the word. Please take a minute to subscribe, review and rate it. Spotify or Apple podcasts. See you at the next episode. While the following podcast discusses the financial markets, it does not recommend any particular investment decision. If you aren't sure of the merits of any investment decision, please seek professional advice.

About 2050 Investors — Economic and markets megatrends, ahead of 2050’s global sustainability targets

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About 2050 Investors — Economic and markets megatrends, ahead of 2050’s global sustainability targets

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

There's certainly something for everyone in this episode!

About this show

Welcome to 2050 Investors, your monthly guide to understanding the intricate connections between finance, globalisation, and ESG.

Previous episodes of 2050 Investors have explored ESG, climate change, AI, greenflation, globalization, plastic pollution, food, healthcare, biodiversity and more.

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Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Hi Siri, can you solve this riddle? Discover the happiest place on earth, which should open happiness. Because you're worth it. Think different and just do it.
Speaker #1
Hum, I'm not sure I can solve it. I need a hint.
Speaker #0
Gotcha! I have combined five of the most popular slogans from some of the world's most famous brands to see whether you would recognize them.
Speaker #1
Really?
Speaker #0
I'll give it another go. And put our audience to the test too. I'll repeat them and you'll have to guess the brand names. Ready?
Speaker #1
Okay, go for it.
Speaker #0
Discover the happiest place on earth, which should open happiness. Because you're worth it. Think different and just do it. Time's up. So, did you get them?
Speaker #1
Duh, of course. You think I live in a cave. That's Disneyland. Coca-Cola. L'Oreal, Apple and Nike.
Speaker #0
Spot on. And data from connected smartphones suggests that 98.7% of listeners got the right answers too.
Speaker #1
So, what's the point of all of this?
Speaker #0
Siri, this clearly shows that advertising has left its mark on our collective memories. Or maybe we'll just have excellent recall.
Speaker #1
Well, isn't this just plain brainwashing by advertising? Hmm,
Speaker #0
that's one way to look at it. These slogans are engineered. to stick in our brains like a catchy pop song. Here's the thing. Advertising doesn't just sell products. It sells ideas, emotions, and even identities through cleverly crafted words and storytelling.
Speaker #1
And I guess that's exactly what we're diving into today.
Speaker #0
As insightful as always, Siri. But first, a quick commercial break. Let's take a moment to hear from our advertisers. Special offer alert. Love what you're hearing? Well, you're in luck. Listen to an episode of 2050 Investors and get two more. Two more. Absolutely free. Binge responsibly. Welcome to 2050 Investors, the podcast that deciphers economic and market megatrends to meet tomorrow's challenges. I'm Coco Agbobla, a head of economics, cross-asset and quant research at Société Générale. In this episode of 2050 Investors, we explore the world of advertising, examining how it has influenced our choices, or even free will, shaped cultural identities, and contributed to overconsumption and climate change. We'll look at its role in driving economic growth and shaping corporate brand identities. We also ask, has advertising trapped us into an endless cycle of consumption? And if so, can it be transformed into a force for good? Later in this episode, we'll hear from Thomas Kolster, a marketing and sustainability expert and author of Goodvertising. Thomas will share unique insights from his marketing experience, and he will discuss the future of advertising and how one can reconcile advertising for good with a growth-centered economic system. Let's start our investigation. So, as is tradition, let's start with some basics.
Speaker #1
The origins of advertising.
Speaker #0
Exactly. The word advertising comes from the Latin word advertere, meaning to turn towards. I found some interesting facts online on Wikipedia. Unsurprisingly, advertising is the practice and techniques employed to bring attention to a product or service. But also, Commercial advertisements often aim to increase consumption of their product or services through branding, which associates a product name or image with certain qualities in the minds of consumers.
Speaker #1
So, I was right about the brainwashing angle then.
Speaker #0
Originally, it was about capturing attention. Think of town criers in medieval Europe shouting about fresh bread in the marketplace. But the origins are even older than that.
Speaker #1
So, the art of turning heads was not invented in Europe?
Speaker #0
Not even close. It began in many places. Cave or rock paintings are among the oldest form of commercial advertisements, still seen today in parts of Asia, Africa and South America. The tradition of wall painting can be traced back to Indian rock art from as early as 4000 BC. Egyptians Use papers for sales messages and wall posters. Commercial messages have been discovered in the ruins of Pompeii and ancient Arabia, in ancient Greece and ancient Rome, Lust and fine advertising on papers was common. In ancient China, the earliest known advertising was oral. As recorded in the classic of poetry of bamboo flutes played to self-confectionery, advertisement often takes the form of calligraphic signboards and inked papers.
Speaker #1
A simpler time. No pop-ups. No influencers. Just a guy shouting, fresh fish. Best price.
Speaker #0
True. Then came print ads in the 17th century, followed by billboards, radio jingles, TV commercials, and eventually digital marketing. Today, companies spend billions to ensure their brands are unforgettable.
Speaker #1
We now have million-dollar Super Bowl commercials.
Speaker #0
Yes, along with AI-generated ads and social media influencers convincing you that buying everything and anything will lead to happiness. Beyond the noise, brightly colored billboards. catchy sound effects, advertising influences us at a subconscious level. This is a good transition to our next question. Are we truly free when we buy things or have we been pre-programmed since childhood?
Speaker #1
I think I know the answer to that. Just look at the state of the planet and climate change.
Speaker #0
Fair point. But first, let's try this thought experiment. Imagine walking into a supermarket. You're just here for three things. You think you're in control, making rational choices. But are you?
Speaker #1
Spoiler alert. Your brain is running on autopilot, following scripts installed by decades of advertising.
Speaker #0
Okay, let's put this point to the test. First, you grab a basket and head to the cereal aisle. Your brain says, I want something healthy. But what do you reach for? You scan the shelves, mostly. Porridge? Too boring. And then, bam! Your hand grabs a box of Kellogg's Choco Krispies or Wittebix. Why? Because deep in your brain, there's a childhood ad. Have you had your Wittebix?
Speaker #1
Maybe you remember your kids' preferences because they love Paw Patrol or Peppa Pig.
Speaker #0
Next up, drinks. You're thirsty. Water? Sure. But then your eyes land on a bright orange bottle of Orangina. And suddenly, a voice whispers. Orangina. Shake it to wake it. Or maybe it's Coca-Cola. And you're not just buying a drink. You're buying a memory. A feeling. That first sip isn't just refreshment. It's a warm July afternoon by the ocean. The laughter of friends. The clink of ice in a glass. It's a glow of Christmas light. The magic of Santa's promise. It's the roar. The stadium. The taste of victory. That red can, it's not just a soda. It's comfort. It's nostalgia. And before you even realize it, it's already in your hand.
Speaker #1
Koku, calm down. You sound just like Don Draper in Mad Men.
Speaker #0
Well, this should not come as a surprise, Siri, because Coca-Cola spends over $4 billion a year on average just to remind you that happiness comes in a red can. Reports from Statista.com even showed a marketing budget going from $3.5 billion to over $5 billion over the past 10 years.
Speaker #1
Fascinating. What next?
Speaker #0
Apparel. Sneakers, maybe. You directly head to the Nike corner, of course. Because somewhere in your brain, you associate their logo with Michael Jordan, Serena Williams, and that urge to just do it.
Speaker #1
I think it's time to leave before you end up emptying your bank account.
Speaker #0
That's very thoughtful, Siri. Thank you.
Speaker #1
So, are humans like trained robots pretending to have free will?
Speaker #0
This is a complex philosophical question, Siri. But talking about free will, I came across an intriguing article from the Harvard Business Review entitled Hidden Minds. It discussed a study concluding that 95% of all cognition, the thinking that drives our decisions and behaviors, occurs unconsciously, including consumer decisions.
Speaker #1
Ads don't just inform, they tap into humans' biological and genetic predispositions.
Speaker #0
Ever wonder why McDonald's uses the red and yellow color?
Speaker #1
No, but I'm sure you're gonna tell me.
Speaker #0
An article from Crowdspring.com discusses the history, meaning, and evolution of McDonald's. logo highlighting color psychology. The use of red and yellow in the logo is strategic. Red is stimulating and associated with appetite and energy, while yellow is associated with happiness and friendliness. This combination is visually appealing and psychologically effective in attracting consumers.
Speaker #1
That makes sense. Color, sound and smell are important stimuli that influence the human brain.
Speaker #0
Exactly. Why do perfume ads use sensual imagery? Well, because scent is linked to memory and desire.
Speaker #1
I suppose social media has taken it to another level.
Speaker #0
Have you ever searched for something online and then seen ads for it everywhere? That's AI-driven advertising, tracking, predicting, and influencing your next move. Now, let's see how advertising has evolved beyond selling things to selling emotions and identities. Take Nike's Dream Crazy campaign about women in sports. It wasn't about shoes, it was about empowerment. Another famous example is Apple's Dream Crazy campaign. Think Different campaign. It was about rebellion, creativity, misfits thinking outside the box.
Speaker #1
And then there's Coca-Cola's Open Happiness campaign, because nothing says happiness like carbonated sugar water in a plastic bottle.
Speaker #2
Touche!
Speaker #0
That's the power of branding. You're not just buying a drink, a phone, or sneakers, you're buying a story, a feeling, a belonging.
Speaker #1
So, If advertising can convince you to buy overpriced sneakers, can it also convince you to make sustainable choices?
Speaker #0
That's the big question. Advertising has driven overconsumption, a key driver of global GDP growth. This demand, in turn, required substantial fossil fuel use, contributing to rising greenhouse gas emissions and impacting climate change. These themes have been explored in many of our previous episodes, such as carbon-free calories and fashionomics. Special offer alert. Love what you're hearing? Well, you're in luck. Listen to an episode of 2050 Investors and get two more. Two more. Absolutely free. Binge responsibly. In principle, advertising could also be part of the solution. Consider these statistics from reports by the World Health Organization. 1. Anti-smoking ads have reduced smoking rates by roughly 30 to 40 percent. 2. Drunk driving campaigns have saved thousands of lives. And three, recycling awareness ads have increased participation globally.
Speaker #1
So, instead of pushing more consumption, we could push better consumption?
Speaker #0
Exactly. Imagine fast fashion brands advertising quality over quantity. Car companies spending more ad dollars on electric vehicles than gas guzzlers. Food brands. promoting plant-based diets.
Speaker #1
Sounds great. But are corporations willing to do that?
Speaker #0
Here's the eye-opening figures. According to Statista.com, companies spend $700 billion a year on advertising. The top spenders are Amazon, Procter & Gamble, and Google. In the 1970s, people were exposed to about 500 ads per day. Today, people see roughly 5,000 to 10,000 ads per day. 10,000! I mean, this is huge. There are 5.3 trillion display ads shown online every year. According to studies by the University of South Carolina in 2023, on average, children see 20,000 30-seconds commercials each year. Adults see an average of 2 million of those on a yearly basis. And finally... social media ad revenues generates over $200 billion annually. Let that sink in.
Speaker #1
You should become a social media influencer.
Speaker #0
You bet. But can you imagine a world without ads? No billboards, no pop-ups, no influencers selling you protein powder.
Speaker #1
So, peace and quiet?
Speaker #0
Yes, but also no free YouTube, no free news, no free apps. no free Google search.
Speaker #1
Right. Without ads, many industries would collapse.
Speaker #0
So maybe the future isn't ad-free, but ad-conscious, where marketing helps people make better choices, not just buy more things.
Speaker #1
What will advertising look like in 2050?
Speaker #0
AI-driven, hyper-personalized, but also ethical? Think about the movie Minority Report, where ads are everywhere. One can imagine ads that assist rather than manipulate.
Speaker #1
So, instead of just do it, it'll be just think about it.
Speaker #0
I love it.
Speaker #2
So,
Speaker #0
if advertising has historically driven overconsumption, It could also serve as a powerful tool for promoting more sustainable choices. But is this really feasible considering the strong profit incentives?
Speaker #1
Is that a trick question? I tend to be a pessimist, as they say a pessimist is just an optimist with experience.
Speaker #0
Ouch, that's a bit harsh, Siri. Listen, I'm an optimist, which is why our guest today is someone who truly understands this topic. Thomas Colster. is an expert in marketing and sustainable development. And he has developed the concept of goodvertising in one of his books.
Speaker #2
Hello, Thomas. Thank you so much for joining the show.
Speaker #3
Such a pleasure being here. Good to see you, Coco.
Speaker #2
So could we start with you sharing how your career in the world of advertising began?
Speaker #3
Wow, you know, I was probably one of those odd folks that didn't really dream about career in advertising. I loved writing, I loved creativity, and I just sort of happened to end up in the industry. And to be honest, it was probably the paycheck that pulled me in by the end of the day. So rather a rich copywriter than a poor author, right?
Speaker #2
Yes, it's an interesting incentive. And this is actually a good transition to the second question, because advertising has historically been about selling more. And you've argued that it can be used for good. So how do you shift from a consumption-driven marketing to a purpose-driven marketing without hurting profits? In other words, it's this sort of paradox between value and values.
Speaker #3
I personally had a bit of an awakening around the Climate Summit and turned my career around. And actually, you know, what I recognized was that this is about brand. I think a lot of us forget the power of the brand. That's, you know, the intrinsic most value of a company is actually tied to the brand. We've seen that with Volkswagen and Dieselgate. And so in many respects here, women are much smarter than us men because they actually realize that we are not that rational when we take decisions. So when we look at brands that are value driven, it's because we like those brands. we look at those values and we feel that they resonate with our worldview. And so when you ask people, do you like a Nike? Do you like Adidas? So not understanding the built-in way that brands work. So values are, in fact, what really fundamentally drives value and drives the value of a brand. That's at least my simple belief.
Speaker #2
So that's actually a very important point because many brands are jumping on the sustainability bandwagon. And that's clearly a big trend and there's a lot of pressure by shareholders, etc. And even consumer, as you mentioned. So how do you separate genuine good advertising, which is the title of your book, from greenwashing?
Speaker #3
You know, for me, it was an evolution of my own thinking as well. And I... In 2020, I came out with a new book called The Hero Trap, where I asked myself the question, with so many brands around pitching us to be world-saving heroes in our lives, what brand have in fact created change in my life? And it's also a question to the listeners, what brand have in fact created positive change in your life? That list was very, very short in my life. So fundamentally, I believe that the real authentic brands are those that enable change in our lives, tangible change, maybe make us more healthy. Maybe they teach us financial literacy. Maybe they actually stop preaching about how green they are, but help me live a greener life. So this is really the pinnacle for me of what is authentic and also where you're living your values.
Speaker #2
Yeah, this is excellent. So you're thinking, and this is some of the analysis we've done in the investigation part of the year. Episode whereby it's not about selling products, it's about selling a lifestyle, a values principle, etc. And effectively using advertising to turn you into a better person.
Speaker #3
It's a personal transformation in so many ways, right? When you drive a Volvo, you feel safe. You want to pay for that, especially if you're like a family guy. You feel that that's the brand that appeals to you. So brands that don't understand. the value that fundamentally playing in people's lives are those that get lost and those that go down the avenue that you say where the chip towing into sustainability into diversity and inclusion this is where it goes wrong so the brand should in fact be the hero but the brand should help us be the heroes of our own lives
Speaker #2
Yeah, I like this quote. So this leads me to this next question around AI and data-driven targeting. Advertising is more powerful than ever. And we've seen some statistics like we are being exposed to 10,000 ads a day, which is enormous. And I think a couple of decades ago, it was only a couple of hundreds. So how can we ensure that these tools are used to drive responsible consumer choices rather than exploit human psychology for... excessive consumption.
Speaker #3
Yeah, you're touching something fundamental, right? It's an incredible amount of ad spend today. I mean, when I started, you know, my tenure in advertising, I think we were around 200 billion. Now we're past the 1 trillion US dollars spent on advertising. To be honest, and this might not be the positive message you're looking for, I think we lost that game. As an industry, I don't think we've lived up to that responsibility, to be honest. I think we should, in fact, as an industry, lead that. We should make sure that we are creating the right guardrails, that we are protecting people, that we are giving people a due choice to opt out of the data being shared, etc. And I think... We haven't done that well enough. I think Europe, for sure, is far ahead of many other countries. But by the end of the day, it often comes down to politics, whether you believe in regulation or deregulation. I do think that, you know, the best way forward is always advertising in people's terms.
Speaker #2
I think you hint towards giving people more control on the data. I think there's a hint towards regulation as well as good regulation to some extent. And that probably leads me to the final question. So if we were to fast forward to 2050, what does a world look like where advertising has fully embraced sustainability and, I guess, guardrails, as you mentioned? And then the related question is, can capitalism and good advertising... truly coexist?
Speaker #3
You know, let's acknowledge that, you know, capitalism, depending on how we want to view it historically, is still a fairly new notion in some ways, right? And I think that we've come from a world where capitalism was sort of viewed almost as the world is flat. I think we now understand that we need a fundamentally new view on capitalism, where the world is round, where we look more holistic on... values, where we look more holistic on the cost of social capital, nature capital, etc. So for me, I think we're moving towards a much more progressive and much full understanding of how capitalism can be. I'm definitely pro-capitalism. I just want that all factors are equated in that piece of math that we're trying to do when we put a value on a company. or when we put a value on a product so that has been not the right way doing it so far because ultimately i mean and i say this as a brand guy as an advertising guy i wholeheartedly would love if companies were competing on the creating the best product that serves your needs in the best possible way coco instead of being just being a sort of beauty contest on incremental nonsense well that was quite uh quite insightful um
Speaker #2
Let's, I was about to say, hope for the best and prepare for the worst. But I guess there are ways to find a capitalism that's more responsible with the circular economy and the advertising that help individual be the hero of the story and not just sell products and empty their wallet.
Speaker #3
Kuko, I'm with you there. I think we've already progressed tremendously the last two decades. And. Well, fingers crossed. Let's be optimistic about the future.
Speaker #2
Brilliant. That's an excellent way to end this interview, Thomas. It was a pleasure having you with us on the show. Thanks a lot. And let's keep in touch.
Speaker #0
Thank you.
Speaker #2
Thanks.
Speaker #0
To wrap things up, I'll quote David Ogilvie, the father of advertising, who said, Never write an advertisement which you wouldn't want your family to read.
Speaker #1
Hold on a second, Koku. Wasn't this whole episode just one giant ad for Société Générale Cross-Acid Research?
Speaker #0
Hmm, maybe. At Societe Generale Rassasset Research, we deliver content with impact because your mind is worth it.
Speaker #1
Well played, Koku. Well played.
Speaker #0
Thank you for listening to this episode of 2050 Investors. Thanks to Thomas Kolster for his invaluable insights. I hope this episode has helped you get a sense of the past, present, and future of advertising and how it could be a force for good. You can find the show on your regular streaming apps. If you enjoy the show, help us spread the word. Please take a minute to subscribe, review and rate it. Spotify or Apple podcasts. See you at the next episode. While the following podcast discusses the financial markets, it does not recommend any particular investment decision. If you aren't sure of the merits of any investment decision, please seek professional advice.

About 2050 Investors — Economic and markets megatrends, ahead of 2050’s global sustainability targets

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About 2050 Investors — Economic and markets megatrends, ahead of 2050’s global sustainability targets

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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