Description

The CENTURI Scientific Outreach team launch a discussion with Scientists about different topics!

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Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Well,

• Speaker #1

  I'm off. Hey man, what's up? Sit down, I'm doing some cooking. Did you have a good day?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, kind of. I mean, it was great. But then after work, I met Mark, you know, my friend from the high school. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  I know Mark.

• Speaker #0

  And it was a bit annoying. Like, he said that my job is kind of useless and I should get a better paying one.

• Speaker #1

  Ouch, that's kind of mean to say. And why did he say that?

• Speaker #0

  I don't know. I think the main reason is that he doesn't really get why I'm doing this type of work.

• Speaker #1

  I disagree with the part of where he says that your job is useless, but personally, I don't really understand what difference does it make if you study birds feather or not.

• Speaker #0

  For me, it is really, really interesting to study how the process of main feathers evolved from dinosaurs to the birds we have today. And in general, like studying how the world we have now emerged, how it was formed.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I think it's interesting for the people who are curious about these topics. But what does it bring to society?

• Speaker #2

  And you? Have you ever wondered why scientists work on very different specific questions? Like biologists for example. They can study different species of plants, birds, yeast, bacteria, worms that are so far from human beings. Indeed we can distinguish between two types of research, the fundamental and the applied. Think of fundamental research as an exploration driven by curiosity. It's all about uncovering the wonders of the universe, from the tiniest particles to the vast riches of the space. On the contrary, applied research often focuses on developing a treatment or a device for a specific use. Now I can hear some of you asking why bother investing time and resources into something that may not pay off right away? And it's a fair question in a world where we're used to getting instant results. Here's why. I turn to some scientific experts to hear their opinion on the matter. The first scientist is Martine Pellicot, an engineer in biology at the Adhesion and Inflammation Laboratory in Aix-Marseille University. Her work is to produce cellular models for researchers to allow them to study cell function in immune cells. To do this, She modifies gene expression by over-or down-regulating target proteins, or by expressing fluorescent markers in the cells. To give you an idea of her work, she described the lab she's working in.

• Speaker #3

  The lab hosts mostly researchers in physics that study a number of topics, such as the adhesion between cells or cells with substrates in different macroenvironments. These topics require a cooperation between biology and physics and my part is helping them to achieve their research goals by being on the interface.

• Speaker #2

  With this podcast we try to understand the role of fundamental research in science in general and in society so I ask her to give her opinion on the matter.

• Speaker #3

  So in fundamental research the goal is to learn and understand the world that we live in with no ulterior motive. The research is performed out of pure interest in the field. For me, applied research often has a specific and precise goal. Both fundamental and applied research are important, but we should not forget that fundamental research creates the path for applied research.

• Speaker #2

  The second scientist is Pierre Recouvre. He is a researcher at the IBDM Institute and a university lecturer. He works on C. elegans, a transparent worm, about one millimeter in length. He is studying the worm development and more specifically the processes that happened during the first cell division of the embryo. During this event the embryo goes from one cell to two cells and those two cells will then give rise to the whole animal. I asked Pierre Recouvreux if he thought that his research was more fundamental or applied and this is his response.

• Speaker #4

  So it is a totally fundamental research. We are just interested in understanding more, more about the development of the worm, but also more about development in general, because the mechanisms that we are looking at may be shared in other organisms. We know that they are shared as well. And we also know that the molecules that we are looking at are also involved into human development, mouse development and all other animals actually. And by understanding more how they function in C. elegans, we might learn also a little bit more what is their function and what is the mode of action of these molecules in other living systems.

• Speaker #2

  Pierre Recouvreux says that he likes asking fundamental questions because even if those questions are sometimes very specific, they can be linked to other general questions in the field and they also can be looked in other contexts. Martin and Pierre are not the only ones having an interest in fundamental research. The third scientist I turn to is Mauro Gaya. Mauro Gaya is a team leader at the Immunology Centre of Marseille-Lumini. He studies B-cells, that are the cells that produce antibodies, and he is looking at how those cells respond in barrier tissue upon infection. When asked if he thinks that this subject is more fundamental or applied, he responds.

• Speaker #5

  I like to say that what we do is fundamental research because we are studying, for example, how B-cells respond. in our body when we have an infection. Yet I think this is really very easily, how do we say, applicable to vaccines for example.

• Speaker #2

  And this is how he feels about fundamental research.

• Speaker #5

  Well me I'm a really advocate of fundamental research and for example I think there is a really nice example here in this institute in the Centre de Immunologie de Marseille-Lumini. Like a long time ago there was a researcher that now he retired called Pierre Goldstein and he discovered a molecule that is called CTLA-4. So he discovered this molecule and he studied this molecule and there was not much of a function, like he didn't discover the function, but then 20 years later I think people starting seeing that this molecule could be a target during immunotherapy against cancer. And in fact like I think 2018 the Nobel Prize was given to the people that developed this anti-cancer therapy against this molecule that Pierre Goldstein discovered like 40 years ago. So sometimes what you think you're discovering something you will never know whether this will have an impact in 20 or 30 years later you know like with therapeutic effects. The problem is that now every time you want to investigate something you in order to get the money you need somehow to tell how this will be useful and this was not in the past in the past they were letting you investigate other things that were without a direct application but now they are asking that more and more so i i don't think it's a good way to go or maybe to have both to have like one part that where we found like part of with immediate application but also to keep funding a fundamental research that can give us a clues to in the future about how to cure different diseases or cancer or infections diseases.

• Speaker #2

  Pierre Millepied is also a team leader at the Centre for Immunology in Marseille-Lumini and the deputy director of this institute. His team is trying to uncover the cues and signals that drive the differentiation of B cells during immune responses or when these B cells become cancer cells. in diseases that are called lymphomas. He says that in his team they are working on different projects that go from one end of the spectrum which is basic immunology, very fundamental, to the other end of the spectrum where they work with medical doctors and they ask questions that are more applied and clinical. Here is his opinion on fundamental science.

• Speaker #6

  When we learn biology, we learn in books, at school or at university. And what's written in those books are the results of fundamental science that happened. years ago, decades ago, sometimes centuries ago. So the fundamental science that we are currently doing in our laboratories are producing the knowledge that will be in the books that students or applied researchers will have as the building bricks or the starting point for any project that will lead to progress. So with that view of science, It's fundamental to have fundamental science because this creates the knowledge. It's basically the only way to create knowledge on which we can base any project, any applied project that will be very important for society. But without the fundamental science as a very strong ground for that progress, we cannot do anything.

• Speaker #1

  Now I see the link between fundamental science and applied science, and how one can be beneficial for the other, but Alessandro, I still don't see how in your specific case, studying bird feather can contribute to a breakthrough discovery. I'm just being honest.

• Speaker #0

  What? Okay. I have no idea if what I'm doing will be beneficial one day. But, you know, there's plenty of major breakthroughs out there that came from fundamental research.

• Speaker #1

  Like what?

• Speaker #0

  Let me think. Like the microwave there, it has been invented by a guy that was working on electromagnetic waves. And then one day he realized that the chocolate in his pocket melted.

• Speaker #1

  Really?

• Speaker #6

  Yes,

• Speaker #5

  really!

• Speaker #0

  But there's plenty of other examples. I don't know, x-rays, antibiotics, DNA editing tools, PCR.

• Speaker #1

  The PCR, just like the, what was it, the COVID tests, right?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, exactly. Like, it couldn't exist without fundamental research in bacteria. And if we come back to my research on birds, it is a simple way to study mechanisms that we cannot study in humans for ethical reasons.

• Speaker #1

  I see now, you convinced me honestly. And I hope that one day you'll have your own scientific breakthrough. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  it would be amazing.

• Speaker #2

  So, what is the point of doing fundamental research? Fundamental research is laying the groundwork for future breakthroughs. It paves the way for practical applications that can improve our lives in ways that we can't even imagine. But it is not just about practical outcomes. Fundamental research also enriches our understanding of the world and our place in it. We can say that science illuminates the present and promises to reveal the secrets of tomorrow. This podcast has been made possible thanks to the support of the Turing Center for Living Systems in Aix-Marseille University. Visit their website at century-livingsystems.org to know how Century supports interdisciplinary scientific research. We are your hosts, Armand, Alessandro and Jeanne. And remember, don't forget to be curious.