Hair care, hair trauma, curl discovery, and embracing authenticity: stories from our live event | The Curl Code: how curl care and self care means wellness for all

Description

We're kicking off the second season of the Curl Code by sharing vulnerable, illuminating, sometimes hilarious and always incredible stories from the show's launch party last year.

This live event brought together curlies and non-curlies of different generations and backgrounds to discuss lived experiences of their curly hair, including hair care, trauma, and self-acceptance. Regardless of what we might not have in common, we discovered funny and not-so-funny stories of struggle, and self-discovery that revealed the things we share, and taught us some of what's changed--and still needs to change--for us all to live as our most authentic selves, and embrace our curly crowns.

Our non-curly allies helped us understand their own experiences and limitations, and our wavy and swavy friends got some reassurance that there is a place for them in the curl universe!

This event and conversation exemplifies the openness, authenticity and healing we stand for in this show, and at the Curly Oasis salon and education platform. We hope you'll find solidarity, companionship, and discovery here, and realize that whatever you curl experience may be, you are not alone!

Continue your curly hair care and education journey on our Instagram!

In this episode:

The CROWN Act: The CROWN Act, which stands for “Creating a Respectful and Open World for Natural Hair,” is currently being adopted on a state by state basis to ban hair-based discrimination at schools and workplaces. Braided twists or locs, “as long as style is neat in appearance” are allowed for women–but not men–in the military.
Environmental working group
INCI app:On Apple and Android

On personal products disrupting the endocrine system:
https://www.niehs.nih.gov/health/topics/agents/endocrine

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2024/09/09/nx-s1-5099419/hair-and-skin-care-products-expose-kids-to-hormone-disrupting-chemicals-study-finds#:~:text=A%20new%20study%20links%20the%20recent%20use%20of%20personal%20care,of%20exposure%20to%20these%20chemicals.

https://single-market-economy.ec.europa.eu/sectors/cosmetics/cosmetic-products-specific-topics/endocrine-disruptors_en

On levels of cancer in brown and Black communities:

https://www.cdc.gov/cancer/health-equity/african-american.html#:~:text=Black%20people%20have%20the%20highest,cancers%20at%20a%20late%20stage.

https://www.cancer.org/about-us/what-we-do/health-equity/cancer-disparities-in-the-black-community.html

Some of our guests:
Sydnei
Susan and Ashira, Thrive Yoga
Luby Ismail, Connecting Cultures

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Welcome to Season 2 of the Curl Follies. We're celebrating our new season by sharing the live recording of the podcast launch party from last year. Our guests shared stories, lessons, and memories that exemplify the kind of vulnerability and authenticity we stand for. It was amazing to hear how many experiences we share, how much has changed. and yet still needs to change to make space for all of us to live authentically. Our time at that gathering was truly a gift, and one I am so honored to share with all of you now. When I bought this business in 2005, it was not a curly hair salon. It was your average salon trying to find its way. And so we want to start a conversation about natural hair. And I'm going to have Sydney and Alex really lead it. And so ladies, take it away.
Speaker #1
Okay, hi, welcome everyone. So as you guys know, I am Syd. I'm one of the stylists here at Oasis.
Speaker #2
Alex, one of the other stylists here.
Speaker #1
And the purpose of tonight is to really bring awareness to the dialogue. and the culture around curly hair. I know the fact that every single person in this room being a curly headed person has had their own experience with curly hair and has their own story to share behind that. So an open question we would love for anyone who who has an opinion, a voice to speak, we would love to know what your experience is with curly hair. We would love to know what did you think when you first realized you had curly hair?
Speaker #0
Ausha. I can't believe you guys want to know this. This is great.
Speaker #3
I had struggled with it my whole life. It actually It wasn't until I came to this salon in my 40s that I learned how to style it. And it was,
Speaker #0
I did everything. I went to the wrong people and got it cut and looked.
Speaker #3
looked like that I was called Elvis for a few years and still has a nickname because of that. I brush it. My mom was always trying to brush it.
Speaker #0
That did not work out well.
Speaker #3
I mean,
Speaker #0
frizz was, I must've had every
Speaker #3
every frizz product on the market and none of them work, right?
Speaker #0
Because,
Speaker #3
you know, you just,
Speaker #0
I didn't know how to use them.
Speaker #3
Washing all the time, getting it blow dried straight as whenever somebody could, you know, like a special treat.
Speaker #0
And then when I got older, I did Brazilians for years,
Speaker #3
straightening it because I did not know how to manage it.
Speaker #1
And understandable. I mean. I mean, no one teaches it, right? It's just something that we're all given. I mean, curly hair is the dominant trait, and we're expected to either conform to societal norms and to change it or deal with the frizz, deal with the unmanageability of it.
Speaker #0
From my late teens through my early mid-30s, I wore a lot of wigs, three-quarter pieces,
Speaker #3
and ponytails.
Speaker #0
Yeah, like that was how much I didn't know what to do. Like I said, not until my 40s when I came here.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Anyone else want to share their experience?
Speaker #0
That was Ausha. And now we have Debra.
Speaker #3
I think I have always struggled with my hair. And it's just never been a big deal for me to have perfect hair. I think when I was in my teens, I liked to go swimming. And I would swim in the summer. And I'd look like straw. But it didn't matter because it wasn't all that important to me. And then when I graduated from business school, trying to look like the professional woman, I was living in Chicago. And I went to this great salon. And they blow-dried my hair. And I curled it and so on. And it looked great. And one day in particular, I was like, I'm going to go to the salon. particular, I went and I paid the, you know, several hundred dollars to get my hair done. And I didn't have enough cash for a tip. So I said to my stylist, I'm going to run to the ATM. And I ran out to the ATM and I came back and she's like, is it raining? What happened to your hair? And I said, this is what happens all the time. Like I leave here and it looks perfect and I get out and it frizzes and it's this whole other thing. And she said, well, I can redo it. And I said, no, I'm okay with it. And I think that's the point at which I thought, get okay with it. You're spending far too much money. And then again, I love my stylist. She was amazing. But this, her reaction was probably the reaction that I had and that like, oh my God, I'm spending all this money and this is it. So I, I then accepted it. And that started on the journey. And it is a journey. Like what products to use? What's the right length? Because by then it was longer. Do I go shorter? It's such a journey. And then when I start to go gray, like what do I color? We're still working through. I've had a couple of therapy sessions here, but that's, it's, it's an ongoing journey, but then so is pretty much everything in life.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I mean, I think Alex and I can both attest to the get okay with it. I know Alex, you've had your own personal experiences growing up. with what your hair is like and what that journey is.
Speaker #2
Exactly. So my realization of having curly hair wasn't that I had curly hair because I was told my hair was nappy.
Speaker #1
So
Speaker #2
I didn't realize I had curly hair until I finally got to a point after relaxing my hair for 20 years and fighting with my hair for my whole life that I was just like, you know, I was learning my son's hair because he was about, you know, getting to be about a year old and I was learning his curls. And I'm like, if... I gave birth to him and he has curls. I probably got the same hair. So let me see what's up under here. You know, if I leave these relaxers alone and that's when I realized I had curly hair and then the floodgates opened and I was, you know, scrounging YouTube and Instagram and TikTok for any wisdom I could find on curly hair. But I found a lot of good marketing, not really the wisdom I needed until I came to Oasis.
Speaker #1
Yes. That marketing piece, I mean, it gets every curly person. Because again, we're being told to manage it, to tame our mane, and it's unrealistic for our hair. It's not what our hair is meant to do. Our hair is perfectly okay the way it is, and it needs more representation. And I mean, how many of us feel represented in the world with our natural texture, realistically here? No one. It's not a thing. Not yet, at least.
Speaker #4
Allison? Okay, yeah, it was perfect. So growing up, I was one of six kids, and my brother nicknamed me Rattles because I had ratty hair. Like, that's what he, that's what they, because it was curly. My siblings had manageable hair. I also couldn't wash it every day or every other day like the kids in school, and I think that they knew that. So that was another form of, like, teasing, you know. Dorothy Hamill was a big hair. I couldn't do that hairdo. My sister, first day of school. I mean, I'm over it.
Speaker #0
It sounds like I'm killing it.
Speaker #4
But I remember she had the Dorothy Hamill and she had dark hair and dark eyes like her. And I had this bouffant that looked awful. And I was in the first grade. I looked like I was 40. So it's interesting. I didn't get curly embracing until I came here in my mid-40s. Up until that point, I would often chemically treat it or flat iron it. It was constantly up in a bun or a scrunchie because I didn't know how to either manage it or embrace it. And I think if you grow up in a period of time where that's the beauty is that the blonde poker straight hair or the Farrah Fawcett feathered hair, and you can't achieve that, you try to hide it or mask it or manipulate it. And it never, I think the woman over here had said the second I would hit outside, no matter how much they did to manipulate. And it was a lot. it would be like what happened you know so it's great in this age of 2023 that we're i'm seeing more even curly-haired actresses on tv that's a nice thing to see because i used to try to like find those individuals the only one i remember it was er i can't remember her name julia something and i was like oh finally acrylic yes and it was great because i saw a curly-haired actress on tv who wasn't doing the jennifer aniston look so I know, which only reinforced I should be doing something to manipulate my hair not to be curly. So thank you for.
Speaker #1
No, absolutely. Thank you for sharing. It's important to highlight these moments when we do finally realize. Someone over here.
Speaker #0
Oh, please come up.
Speaker #3
My perspective on my curly hair has been difficult and associated with a lot of pain. I'm a member of the baby boomer generation. And during a time when I was growing, and I'm five generations removed from slavery. So that's the environment I grew up in. And as I was, until I could manage my hair myself, getting my hair done. Getting my hair washed, even washed, was painful because what followed was a painful... step of getting my hair straightened with a hot comb and grease and the grease would run it down into my scalp and burn my scalp. That's what they did and the perspective on curly hair when I was growing up was that it was there was something wrong with you that you had not been that God had not treated you well. by giving you curly hair and that you were not an attractive person because of it. And so everything that could be done to make your hair straight was done. As a matter of fact, I think in some of the cotillions you had to pass the test to have straight hair. I know there was the brown bag test. You had to, your skin had to be lighter than a brown paper bag in order to be, to, yes, be allowed in, but straight hair was also a requirement. And I think the thing I want to share with you that is most painful to me and also representative of how my generation viewed curly hair was my mother's last words to me on her dying bed was to get my hair straight. That's how important it was. And the amount of money that I've spent, because when I went to work in corporate America, you could not have curly hair. I drew up and, you know, I was an adult when the notion of wearing an afro became acceptable. And so. When I came into corporate America, you couldn't do that, and particularly women, by the way, because there was a lot of bias. I went to work for AT&T, and the attitude toward women at that time was that only women of ill repute went to work. So in order to come into a company building, you had to have white gloves and a hat. And fortunately, I lived to see that. change over time. But, you know, so there was the feminine beauty aspects to deal with. And there was also the, I will call it the ethnic aspects to deal with. So I am so pleased to have witnessed that whole transformation and to discover that it's no longer considered a thing. that there's something wrong with you or that you're defective. As a matter of fact, I have girlfriends, I have a girlfriend who is blonde and blue eyed, her hair is curlier than mine. So a lot of those myths and attitudes have changed over time. And I just want to say, I'm glad.
Speaker #0
Thank you, Joe.
Speaker #1
You made some amazing points with your words. You had mentioned the cultural background of course but also the ancestral background of natural hair and I'm sure for not only African American women but for women of many different ethnic groups women and men people out there have experienced their as Alex loves to say their ancestral wisdom behind their hair and the fact that people who were not of a certain standard in this country and in many other countries have experienced discrimination based off of their hair I mean, even in the workplace, like you had mentioned, we have the Crown Act now that, you know, banned the discrimination of natural hair textures in the workplace because it is that deep and it goes so much deeper beyond that. I mean, Alex, I know you have your own experience with workplace discrimination of hair.
Speaker #2
Oh, my gosh. Yes. So I spent a good eight years on active duty in the military and the hair standards have come a long way, like as far as the inclusivity of it all. But back when I came in, I just can't remember being in technical training school and having my hair out and like a little puff behind my hat and everything. And, you know, a T.I. walked up to me and just was like, you know, I bet if I put a ruler up to your hair, it's greater than three inches in bulk, which was the dress and appearance standard for women's hair. And I was just like, well, I can't really like that's my hair. What you want me to do? You know, but it just. Thankfully, the standards have changed to a point where they include people whose hair is just naturally bulky and... you know, we can live our lives now in a way that includes everyone instead of excluding people simply for the way the hair grows out of their scalp.
Speaker #0
Absolutely. And what Sydney's referring to, I don't know if you all are aware of what the Crown Act is. It is, what is it, an act that's being proposed and it's going state by state where people can wear their, you can't discriminate against natural texture in the workplace. place. Yeah,
Speaker #1
and of course this goes for curlies of all types, but how many of you guys have, you know, gotten ready for work one day and... your curls had started to curl maybe you had recently gotten a blowout or some kind of straightening style and then that little bit of frizz starts peeking through that tiny bit of curl starts to show itself and then you think am i going to be questioned for how my hair looks is this professional i mean what defines professionalism the way my hair is straightened or
Speaker #0
how i show up and perform my job good one absolutely yeah and earlier i think Ausha you were saying and for special occasions i would get it straightened We hear that so much. You know, it's a special occasion. I have to get my hair straightened. Why don't you bleach your skin while you're at it, right? Or whatever else. I don't know, get a nose job. I mean, that's really what we're saying because it's part of our biological makeup. up and so that's also I think what you're alluding to Sydney is you know how do you feel represented in the world how do you feel as far as curly hair and professionalism I'd love to hear some thoughts around that
Speaker #5
Hi, I'm Nichelle. I am a longtime believer in this space. It was this space that helped me to understand that I had a network of people that that could help me overcome some of the trauma that I had that came along with the expectation of straight hair. I work at a predominantly white institution in Washington, DC. And when I got my job, of course I had to. to straighten my hair and I definitely feel like there are these expectations that you're more professional you are seen to be more validated if you have the straight hair. coming into this space coming into your like support network I just felt like I was available to combat some of the like hurt that comes with denying aspects of my personality that come with the curly hair I definitely love when I can go through my school community I'm a pre-k teacher and I love that the kids are like You have curly hair, like you wear your hair in this, you know, kind of this afro. And I love that I can say to kids who are curious about touching someone's hair, like, don't touch my hair. Let's read this book. There's a rare old book called Don't Touch My Hair. And historically speaking, I think predominantly white institutions. the lower school, the elementary level, there's a lot of curiosity that comes with. So I definitely know that the courage and the affirmation that I received in this space and actually coming to appointments where I'm like, oh, okay, so everyone, you know, the level of melanin is different. The people that come here, they all have this curly hair journey and you're my sister. You're my people. And you embrace your journey in the same way that I do, in a way that I never did before. Like you open up the space for me to see that I'm not by myself. And as an early childhood professional, I only encourage. individuals to be who they are.
Speaker #1
Beautiful, Nichelle.
Speaker #0
Thank you.
Speaker #1
And to go off, you made some amazing points about it's not just ethnic. I mean, how many white women with curly hair felt felt like they could not go to a non-white salon to get their hair done? How many of them felt uncomfortable walking in the door saying, they're not gonna know how to treat my hair, they're not going to know what to do with my hair, right? And then let's switch that role. How many women of color have gone to a predominantly white salon and said, I don't know what to do with my hair. That wall is there. That ethnic wall is there throughout this entire community and it is so much greater than it seems. The curly industry is one of the most beautiful things because we tried to break down that barrier. We tried to eliminate the divide between I mean white and non-white people and say you know what most people in this universe have curly hair why can't we come together and do it as one I love those points Michelle thank you
Speaker #6
Susan so I want to um say that I had no idea what the topic was tonight and I think that that was definitely not a coincidence I had no idea about any of this hardship And I've always wanted to have curly hair. And the fact of the matter is, while you all were speaking, is like the person I want to date, I want him to have curly hair. And so I want, and I spent, I remember my mom used to buy these curlers, those foam pink curlers and the electric curlers. And you snapped them in. And I used to always love like to put curlers in my hair and have. curly hair and I also got perms as a kid and they never looked as beautiful as your hair. I didn't have trauma over my hair. So what didn't walk around saying, oh, I'm, I'm feeling trauma because my hair is not curly, but I always thought curly haired people were more fun. And I was like, And I'm noticing I had all these biases and stereotypes, and I was just thinking about that. And I remember recently, so now that you're all talking about this, I really started to see more curly hair because I remember one time a woman had a beautiful, very high curly hair do experience, whatever. And I almost didn't tell her how beautiful her hair was because I was afraid to. So. And now I'm wondering why, I wonder why that was. And maybe I was picking up that there was some trauma behind the hair, or I didn't want to insult. Maybe it was the white divide, you know, because this was a black woman. But her hair was really cool. It had different curls and colors, and she was so beautiful, the hair, you know. So, um... I can't wait to come here and get my hair more curly because it's wavy. So maybe we can boost it up and I can like, you know, do whatever. You do it tonight.
Speaker #1
Yes, Christina.
Speaker #4
I would love to actually. So I'm Christina and I've been sitting next to Linda and we just had this conversation about how we think her hair is curly. And I actually started coming to this salon when I was 16 years old. And my hair was straight because I was blow drying it all the time.
Speaker #0
And when
Speaker #4
Wafeya started getting into the curly,
Speaker #0
she,
Speaker #4
we, I think we had the same conversation every time I came here for a year about how my hair was actually curly. And I was like, no, no, no, it's not. And then I would leave after I like asked her to blow dry it. And then I would come back. So. Thank goodness now that's, I think now I've been wearing it only curly for 20 years and I have not blow dried it in at least 10 years. And I, I'm me, I'm me now.
Speaker #1
I love it.
Speaker #0
That's beautiful.
Speaker #1
I love that too. Somewhat wavy and swavy women have just spoken because that's also a huge divide in the curly community. And I have to speak for myself on this one. I'd if you had a wave, I didn't think you were curly before I started working here. I was like, oh, it's wavy hair. You have to do so much to encourage it. It's not curls. Every type, every form, every bend in the hair, that is a curl. And so many women come in who have wavy hair and they'll say, well, everyone tells me it's not curly and I don't know where to go because it doesn't fully work out with like a straight hair technique. But curly hair doesn't seem to like, I don't feel like I fit in. And it's like, trust me, you belong. You are wavy. You are valid in that. And it's an experience that you have your own journey on. That's completely different than mine, but it's real.
Speaker #0
Do you guys want to address some of the surprises, right? I know you and I talked about it in your podcast, and Alex, because you're the latest edition, I'd love to hear from you the ancestral wisdom myths that really shocked you.
Speaker #2
Oh my goodness. So when I had my, I call it my Oasis baptism. My first day of work here, like onboarding and everything, right before I was about to leave, what Faye said, so do you want us to set your curls? And I was like, yes, of course. Like, I'm in the curly Oasis. Yes, I want my curls set. And so everyone came by and is washing my hair, and I left out of here with my curls looking more beautiful than they've ever looked before. And then I get home the next couple of days and I'm like, so when do I oil my scalp? And, you know, like, what do I, how do I maintain this and everything? And they're like, yeah, no oils. So, so much of what we were taught all our lives to grease our scalps, to seal in the moisture with heavy oils and things. Like a lot of it is just that, it's ancestral wisdom. But ancestral wisdom is really based in your ancestors doing the best they could with what they had. And, you know, we had to grow from that place. So when I got here is when a lot of that growth happened because I had been taught to, you know, use the blue magic, the grease with the petrochemicals and the synthetic fragrances and the microplastics. All the things we tell y'all not to do is what I have been doing my whole life. So definitely that really helped make me a believer was my own journey since I got here. learning to like the truth versus like what I had been taught all my life.
Speaker #0
Well, in greasing your scalp, that's such an interesting concept because, you know, we have sebaceous glands that are producing oil. And, you know, if your facial skin is oily, as the Curly Girl book, you know, taught us, so is your scalp. It's just an extension of your face. And so now you're putting these non-water soluble ingredients on it. that's actually hindering the natural ecosystem of your scalp from functioning properly. But again, I mean, it's not that people are evil. It's the, you know, it's just the awareness, right? We're learning more and more. And I love that you mentioned the microplastics and the petrochemicals. And, you know, yes, we do have gentlemen here. I'm going to speak to everyone, but ladies, especially because we're... We're the ones spending more time on lotions and makeup and hair and all the things that we put on our bodies. Do your research. Just take the first five ingredients and look it up through the Environmental Working Group. And there's another app that is called INCI, I-N-C-I, that's out of Europe, because European standards are a little stricter than ours. And see what you're actually putting on your bodies. What is your skin absorbing? We do a lot of research here, and what we're finding the most is that a lot of the ingredients that are used in our beauty care actually disrupt our endocrine system. I mean, that's serious. Hormones are everything. And, you know, just do the research. And we're finding also that in brown and black communities, there are more incidents and risks of cancer that is linked. to disruption of the endocrine system. And again, manufacturers are not evil, but we do vote with our dollar. And so if we can take the time to become aware and educated and start making more demands and supporting companies that are taking these things more seriously, then eventually there will be a tidal wave and everything will change.
Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. It's time for change. And I think that's something that... is heavily focused on in the curl community, in the world in this day and age, realistically. We are moving forward, and that's one thing that we have to do with our hair, is move forward. We cannot continue to be held to these standards.
Speaker #0
Yes, Luby.
Speaker #3
I want to say that Wafaa changed my life. Because as a public speaker, and I always said, I need to look professional. And to look professional meant I had to go get my hair straightened and do the whole thing of getting it rolled, blow-dried, ironed to look good, right? To look right. to fit in what was considered professional. And it was when I was asked to speak. at Microsoft for Martin Luther King Jr. weekend. And I said, what am I doing? Am I going to go? And as one of the speakers said, am I going to be authentically me? Or am I going to be what?
Speaker #0
so-called others think I should be. And that was the beginning. And Wafat knows every time I had something to go to, I didn't go anymore to the Dominican Republican hairdressers, who I loved and spent hours. But I came here, and coming here was coming home. Aww. having hair was coming home.
Speaker #1
It's beautiful.
Speaker #0
You know, I grew up the first time I went to a hairdresser, a white hairdresser, and the first thing I heard as a child was, she has bad hair. And I feel for the girls, and that's why I brought a young woman here that I said I wanted her to know. before she goes to NYU. Katty, I said, I want you to be here. I want you to hear what they've got, because this is something that mattered to me, that I wish I knew at 18. So we pass it forward. Thank you.
Speaker #2
Thank you. Thank you, Ruby.
Speaker #3
And I just want to say, you know, she's giving me credit, but really it is a collective. And there are curl specialists all over the country. It is definitely growing more and more. Not enough, but I do want to make that clear that that is something that is happening in the world.
Speaker #1
Yes, absolutely. And, Ruby, you made numerous amazing points. For one, thank you so much. for sharing and bringing someone into this space. I think that's a lot of times people, you know, get told about these spaces and that's really how we start. But another point that you made was authenticity. And I would love to hear anyone who would love to share their story about how authentic they felt prior to. understanding their curls. I know for myself, there was a point when I was getting relaxers and straightening. And then you asked yourself, how authentic do I feel? Or do I feel like I'm fitting into a mold?
Speaker #4
This is a Shira again. Hello,
Speaker #1
Shira.
Speaker #4
It's just one thing that I want to say about this, which is that. I always felt like there was a part of me that was a fraud because of like I had there's embarrassment and this like hiding and I had to change things and I do have to say that since and I told you my 40s but it's really my mid-40s that I came here and it did help me feel like myself and a true authentic version you know just living and owning my my look yeah absolutely you you
Speaker #5
uh i was born in the united states and i grew up in a predominantly white community and so my curly hair was always something that made me different um and not part of the crowd and I was already not a popular kid for many reasons. So I spent so much time trying to straighten my hair and it would just turn into these like grotesque waves and eventually I I gave up and just cut it super, super short. But that also prevented me from being able to achieve a look that I wanted to achieve. And over the years, I tried to grow up my hair. And I would always hit this like threshold of like two, two or three inches where the frizz would start coming in and I'll try to control it. And it just seemed to use more and more handfuls of product every day, to the point where the hair was just so heavy, it just looked like I was dumped to Greece. to my head. And then I gave up for a long time until the pandemic hit and my hair grew out and I was debating cutting it. And I was like, you know what, let me check out a place that focuses on curly hair. And I just Googled this and this place was only 10 minutes from where I lived, luckily, and came here and it was really transformative. I walked through those doors and being able to grow out my hair and just... get that little extra boost of confidence that I needed really had a big impact in me just being able to express myself in other ways and it's been a this place is kind of like family I some someone asked me just today like do I work here I'm like no but I'm here all this Yeah, so it's really special to be able to find your authentic beauty and to allow it to shine through. And then that allows more deeper versions of yourself to emerge as well.
Speaker #1
I don't know why, but this whole conversation, I'm tearing. A little bit. Group curl therapy, and I'm really here for it. Anyone else? Anyone else? London,
Speaker #3
I'm not going to make you speak because you don't want to, but we do have a young representative here. Wait, but how old are you? Twelve. That's something to celebrate, that a 12-year-old gets to feel empowered in her natural crown. That's definitely something we're very proud of. And it's one of our favorite things to do, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, we love empowering the young generation. As Luby said, pass it forward.
Speaker #3
Absolutely.
Speaker #6
so usually I'm like nervous to talk in front of people I'm not nervous to be behind the chair but I'm nervous but to talk around people and whatnot okay so I grew up not being not being black enough and not being white enough and so I tried everything that I could do to be black I tried to braid my hair, straighten my hair with a hot comb, which was not right for my hair. My mom killed me about that, you know. It was kind of hard because I went to a predominantly black school. And then I started working at a predominantly straight hair salon. And I would always tell them, can I straighten your hair? Can you straighten my hair? Can you straighten my hair? No one wanted to straighten my hair. They were scared to straighten my hair. They thought it was going to take a long time. However, just coming here and being able to be myself, I'm just very grateful that we can come here and we can talk about our journey and our stories. And it's not just one predominantly race. It's everybody because everyone had their chance to deal with their hair, deal with their waves. You curly girl, don't matter. You got a crinkle. It's curly. But just being able to just do that and just talk freely. among each other is just amazing. And we're therapists also. Y'all know that, right? Yeah. Thank you for letting me talk. I usually don't talk. I wasn't going to talk, but thank you.
Speaker #2
Beautiful.
Speaker #1
We thank you guys all for your time today. It is so appreciated to hear everyone's insight. and their voices. We want you to know your voice is always heard, especially in this space. And just to constantly remember that it's a collective. It's a collective effort. It's a collective space. And it takes each individual person, each individual Curly, Wavy, Swavy, whoever you are to embrace and empower not only yourself, but really the future generation. So thank you guys so much.
Speaker #2
Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you everyone.
Speaker #7
The Curl Code was brought to you from the Oasis Curl Salon at Rockville, Maryland, hosted by the one and only Wafeya Abdullah. If you like the show, please leave us a five-star rating, and if you've got some nice things to say, go ahead and leave us a review. But most importantly, please share the show with anyone you think would enjoy it. Learn more about Curly Oasis at www.curlyoasis.com and continue your curl education journey by finding them on Instagram and YouTube. The curl code is a Say Miller Production.

About The Curl Code: how curl care and self care means wellness for all

The Curl Code explores individual stories of how learning to embrace our natural hair can unlock the journey to embracing and empowering our most authentic selves. Each episode reveals a unique story of an individual journey, starting with a decision to lean into and learn to care for their curls, unwinding a process of transformation in how they view the world, society, and themselves.

Wafaya Abdallah, owner of Curly Oasis curl salon and curl educator based in Rockville, MD, brings decades of experience in the beauty industry, and leads conversations including practical advice on hair and self care, how she runs a co-elevating, team-based business, and how uncovering our most authentic selves allows all of us to vibrate at our highest frequency.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About The Curl Code: how curl care and self care means wellness for all

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Welcome to Season 2 of the Curl Follies. We're celebrating our new season by sharing the live recording of the podcast launch party from last year. Our guests shared stories, lessons, and memories that exemplify the kind of vulnerability and authenticity we stand for. It was amazing to hear how many experiences we share, how much has changed. and yet still needs to change to make space for all of us to live authentically. Our time at that gathering was truly a gift, and one I am so honored to share with all of you now. When I bought this business in 2005, it was not a curly hair salon. It was your average salon trying to find its way. And so we want to start a conversation about natural hair. And I'm going to have Sydney and Alex really lead it. And so ladies, take it away.
Speaker #1
Okay, hi, welcome everyone. So as you guys know, I am Syd. I'm one of the stylists here at Oasis.
Speaker #2
Alex, one of the other stylists here.
Speaker #1
And the purpose of tonight is to really bring awareness to the dialogue. and the culture around curly hair. I know the fact that every single person in this room being a curly headed person has had their own experience with curly hair and has their own story to share behind that. So an open question we would love for anyone who who has an opinion, a voice to speak, we would love to know what your experience is with curly hair. We would love to know what did you think when you first realized you had curly hair?
Speaker #0
Ausha. I can't believe you guys want to know this. This is great.
Speaker #3
I had struggled with it my whole life. It actually It wasn't until I came to this salon in my 40s that I learned how to style it. And it was,
Speaker #0
I did everything. I went to the wrong people and got it cut and looked.
Speaker #3
looked like that I was called Elvis for a few years and still has a nickname because of that. I brush it. My mom was always trying to brush it.
Speaker #0
That did not work out well.
Speaker #3
I mean,
Speaker #0
frizz was, I must've had every
Speaker #3
every frizz product on the market and none of them work, right?
Speaker #0
Because,
Speaker #3
you know, you just,
Speaker #0
I didn't know how to use them.
Speaker #3
Washing all the time, getting it blow dried straight as whenever somebody could, you know, like a special treat.
Speaker #0
And then when I got older, I did Brazilians for years,
Speaker #3
straightening it because I did not know how to manage it.
Speaker #1
And understandable. I mean. I mean, no one teaches it, right? It's just something that we're all given. I mean, curly hair is the dominant trait, and we're expected to either conform to societal norms and to change it or deal with the frizz, deal with the unmanageability of it.
Speaker #0
From my late teens through my early mid-30s, I wore a lot of wigs, three-quarter pieces,
Speaker #3
and ponytails.
Speaker #0
Yeah, like that was how much I didn't know what to do. Like I said, not until my 40s when I came here.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Anyone else want to share their experience?
Speaker #0
That was Ausha. And now we have Debra.
Speaker #3
I think I have always struggled with my hair. And it's just never been a big deal for me to have perfect hair. I think when I was in my teens, I liked to go swimming. And I would swim in the summer. And I'd look like straw. But it didn't matter because it wasn't all that important to me. And then when I graduated from business school, trying to look like the professional woman, I was living in Chicago. And I went to this great salon. And they blow-dried my hair. And I curled it and so on. And it looked great. And one day in particular, I was like, I'm going to go to the salon. particular, I went and I paid the, you know, several hundred dollars to get my hair done. And I didn't have enough cash for a tip. So I said to my stylist, I'm going to run to the ATM. And I ran out to the ATM and I came back and she's like, is it raining? What happened to your hair? And I said, this is what happens all the time. Like I leave here and it looks perfect and I get out and it frizzes and it's this whole other thing. And she said, well, I can redo it. And I said, no, I'm okay with it. And I think that's the point at which I thought, get okay with it. You're spending far too much money. And then again, I love my stylist. She was amazing. But this, her reaction was probably the reaction that I had and that like, oh my God, I'm spending all this money and this is it. So I, I then accepted it. And that started on the journey. And it is a journey. Like what products to use? What's the right length? Because by then it was longer. Do I go shorter? It's such a journey. And then when I start to go gray, like what do I color? We're still working through. I've had a couple of therapy sessions here, but that's, it's, it's an ongoing journey, but then so is pretty much everything in life.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I mean, I think Alex and I can both attest to the get okay with it. I know Alex, you've had your own personal experiences growing up. with what your hair is like and what that journey is.
Speaker #2
Exactly. So my realization of having curly hair wasn't that I had curly hair because I was told my hair was nappy.
Speaker #1
So
Speaker #2
I didn't realize I had curly hair until I finally got to a point after relaxing my hair for 20 years and fighting with my hair for my whole life that I was just like, you know, I was learning my son's hair because he was about, you know, getting to be about a year old and I was learning his curls. And I'm like, if... I gave birth to him and he has curls. I probably got the same hair. So let me see what's up under here. You know, if I leave these relaxers alone and that's when I realized I had curly hair and then the floodgates opened and I was, you know, scrounging YouTube and Instagram and TikTok for any wisdom I could find on curly hair. But I found a lot of good marketing, not really the wisdom I needed until I came to Oasis.
Speaker #1
Yes. That marketing piece, I mean, it gets every curly person. Because again, we're being told to manage it, to tame our mane, and it's unrealistic for our hair. It's not what our hair is meant to do. Our hair is perfectly okay the way it is, and it needs more representation. And I mean, how many of us feel represented in the world with our natural texture, realistically here? No one. It's not a thing. Not yet, at least.
Speaker #4
Allison? Okay, yeah, it was perfect. So growing up, I was one of six kids, and my brother nicknamed me Rattles because I had ratty hair. Like, that's what he, that's what they, because it was curly. My siblings had manageable hair. I also couldn't wash it every day or every other day like the kids in school, and I think that they knew that. So that was another form of, like, teasing, you know. Dorothy Hamill was a big hair. I couldn't do that hairdo. My sister, first day of school. I mean, I'm over it.
Speaker #0
It sounds like I'm killing it.
Speaker #4
But I remember she had the Dorothy Hamill and she had dark hair and dark eyes like her. And I had this bouffant that looked awful. And I was in the first grade. I looked like I was 40. So it's interesting. I didn't get curly embracing until I came here in my mid-40s. Up until that point, I would often chemically treat it or flat iron it. It was constantly up in a bun or a scrunchie because I didn't know how to either manage it or embrace it. And I think if you grow up in a period of time where that's the beauty is that the blonde poker straight hair or the Farrah Fawcett feathered hair, and you can't achieve that, you try to hide it or mask it or manipulate it. And it never, I think the woman over here had said the second I would hit outside, no matter how much they did to manipulate. And it was a lot. it would be like what happened you know so it's great in this age of 2023 that we're i'm seeing more even curly-haired actresses on tv that's a nice thing to see because i used to try to like find those individuals the only one i remember it was er i can't remember her name julia something and i was like oh finally acrylic yes and it was great because i saw a curly-haired actress on tv who wasn't doing the jennifer aniston look so I know, which only reinforced I should be doing something to manipulate my hair not to be curly. So thank you for.
Speaker #1
No, absolutely. Thank you for sharing. It's important to highlight these moments when we do finally realize. Someone over here.
Speaker #0
Oh, please come up.
Speaker #3
My perspective on my curly hair has been difficult and associated with a lot of pain. I'm a member of the baby boomer generation. And during a time when I was growing, and I'm five generations removed from slavery. So that's the environment I grew up in. And as I was, until I could manage my hair myself, getting my hair done. Getting my hair washed, even washed, was painful because what followed was a painful... step of getting my hair straightened with a hot comb and grease and the grease would run it down into my scalp and burn my scalp. That's what they did and the perspective on curly hair when I was growing up was that it was there was something wrong with you that you had not been that God had not treated you well. by giving you curly hair and that you were not an attractive person because of it. And so everything that could be done to make your hair straight was done. As a matter of fact, I think in some of the cotillions you had to pass the test to have straight hair. I know there was the brown bag test. You had to, your skin had to be lighter than a brown paper bag in order to be, to, yes, be allowed in, but straight hair was also a requirement. And I think the thing I want to share with you that is most painful to me and also representative of how my generation viewed curly hair was my mother's last words to me on her dying bed was to get my hair straight. That's how important it was. And the amount of money that I've spent, because when I went to work in corporate America, you could not have curly hair. I drew up and, you know, I was an adult when the notion of wearing an afro became acceptable. And so. When I came into corporate America, you couldn't do that, and particularly women, by the way, because there was a lot of bias. I went to work for AT&T, and the attitude toward women at that time was that only women of ill repute went to work. So in order to come into a company building, you had to have white gloves and a hat. And fortunately, I lived to see that. change over time. But, you know, so there was the feminine beauty aspects to deal with. And there was also the, I will call it the ethnic aspects to deal with. So I am so pleased to have witnessed that whole transformation and to discover that it's no longer considered a thing. that there's something wrong with you or that you're defective. As a matter of fact, I have girlfriends, I have a girlfriend who is blonde and blue eyed, her hair is curlier than mine. So a lot of those myths and attitudes have changed over time. And I just want to say, I'm glad.
Speaker #0
Thank you, Joe.
Speaker #1
You made some amazing points with your words. You had mentioned the cultural background of course but also the ancestral background of natural hair and I'm sure for not only African American women but for women of many different ethnic groups women and men people out there have experienced their as Alex loves to say their ancestral wisdom behind their hair and the fact that people who were not of a certain standard in this country and in many other countries have experienced discrimination based off of their hair I mean, even in the workplace, like you had mentioned, we have the Crown Act now that, you know, banned the discrimination of natural hair textures in the workplace because it is that deep and it goes so much deeper beyond that. I mean, Alex, I know you have your own experience with workplace discrimination of hair.
Speaker #2
Oh, my gosh. Yes. So I spent a good eight years on active duty in the military and the hair standards have come a long way, like as far as the inclusivity of it all. But back when I came in, I just can't remember being in technical training school and having my hair out and like a little puff behind my hat and everything. And, you know, a T.I. walked up to me and just was like, you know, I bet if I put a ruler up to your hair, it's greater than three inches in bulk, which was the dress and appearance standard for women's hair. And I was just like, well, I can't really like that's my hair. What you want me to do? You know, but it just. Thankfully, the standards have changed to a point where they include people whose hair is just naturally bulky and... you know, we can live our lives now in a way that includes everyone instead of excluding people simply for the way the hair grows out of their scalp.
Speaker #0
Absolutely. And what Sydney's referring to, I don't know if you all are aware of what the Crown Act is. It is, what is it, an act that's being proposed and it's going state by state where people can wear their, you can't discriminate against natural texture in the workplace. place. Yeah,
Speaker #1
and of course this goes for curlies of all types, but how many of you guys have, you know, gotten ready for work one day and... your curls had started to curl maybe you had recently gotten a blowout or some kind of straightening style and then that little bit of frizz starts peeking through that tiny bit of curl starts to show itself and then you think am i going to be questioned for how my hair looks is this professional i mean what defines professionalism the way my hair is straightened or
Speaker #0
how i show up and perform my job good one absolutely yeah and earlier i think Ausha you were saying and for special occasions i would get it straightened We hear that so much. You know, it's a special occasion. I have to get my hair straightened. Why don't you bleach your skin while you're at it, right? Or whatever else. I don't know, get a nose job. I mean, that's really what we're saying because it's part of our biological makeup. up and so that's also I think what you're alluding to Sydney is you know how do you feel represented in the world how do you feel as far as curly hair and professionalism I'd love to hear some thoughts around that
Speaker #5
Hi, I'm Nichelle. I am a longtime believer in this space. It was this space that helped me to understand that I had a network of people that that could help me overcome some of the trauma that I had that came along with the expectation of straight hair. I work at a predominantly white institution in Washington, DC. And when I got my job, of course I had to. to straighten my hair and I definitely feel like there are these expectations that you're more professional you are seen to be more validated if you have the straight hair. coming into this space coming into your like support network I just felt like I was available to combat some of the like hurt that comes with denying aspects of my personality that come with the curly hair I definitely love when I can go through my school community I'm a pre-k teacher and I love that the kids are like You have curly hair, like you wear your hair in this, you know, kind of this afro. And I love that I can say to kids who are curious about touching someone's hair, like, don't touch my hair. Let's read this book. There's a rare old book called Don't Touch My Hair. And historically speaking, I think predominantly white institutions. the lower school, the elementary level, there's a lot of curiosity that comes with. So I definitely know that the courage and the affirmation that I received in this space and actually coming to appointments where I'm like, oh, okay, so everyone, you know, the level of melanin is different. The people that come here, they all have this curly hair journey and you're my sister. You're my people. And you embrace your journey in the same way that I do, in a way that I never did before. Like you open up the space for me to see that I'm not by myself. And as an early childhood professional, I only encourage. individuals to be who they are.
Speaker #1
Beautiful, Nichelle.
Speaker #0
Thank you.
Speaker #1
And to go off, you made some amazing points about it's not just ethnic. I mean, how many white women with curly hair felt felt like they could not go to a non-white salon to get their hair done? How many of them felt uncomfortable walking in the door saying, they're not gonna know how to treat my hair, they're not going to know what to do with my hair, right? And then let's switch that role. How many women of color have gone to a predominantly white salon and said, I don't know what to do with my hair. That wall is there. That ethnic wall is there throughout this entire community and it is so much greater than it seems. The curly industry is one of the most beautiful things because we tried to break down that barrier. We tried to eliminate the divide between I mean white and non-white people and say you know what most people in this universe have curly hair why can't we come together and do it as one I love those points Michelle thank you
Speaker #6
Susan so I want to um say that I had no idea what the topic was tonight and I think that that was definitely not a coincidence I had no idea about any of this hardship And I've always wanted to have curly hair. And the fact of the matter is, while you all were speaking, is like the person I want to date, I want him to have curly hair. And so I want, and I spent, I remember my mom used to buy these curlers, those foam pink curlers and the electric curlers. And you snapped them in. And I used to always love like to put curlers in my hair and have. curly hair and I also got perms as a kid and they never looked as beautiful as your hair. I didn't have trauma over my hair. So what didn't walk around saying, oh, I'm, I'm feeling trauma because my hair is not curly, but I always thought curly haired people were more fun. And I was like, And I'm noticing I had all these biases and stereotypes, and I was just thinking about that. And I remember recently, so now that you're all talking about this, I really started to see more curly hair because I remember one time a woman had a beautiful, very high curly hair do experience, whatever. And I almost didn't tell her how beautiful her hair was because I was afraid to. So. And now I'm wondering why, I wonder why that was. And maybe I was picking up that there was some trauma behind the hair, or I didn't want to insult. Maybe it was the white divide, you know, because this was a black woman. But her hair was really cool. It had different curls and colors, and she was so beautiful, the hair, you know. So, um... I can't wait to come here and get my hair more curly because it's wavy. So maybe we can boost it up and I can like, you know, do whatever. You do it tonight.
Speaker #1
Yes, Christina.
Speaker #4
I would love to actually. So I'm Christina and I've been sitting next to Linda and we just had this conversation about how we think her hair is curly. And I actually started coming to this salon when I was 16 years old. And my hair was straight because I was blow drying it all the time.
Speaker #0
And when
Speaker #4
Wafeya started getting into the curly,
Speaker #0
she,
Speaker #4
we, I think we had the same conversation every time I came here for a year about how my hair was actually curly. And I was like, no, no, no, it's not. And then I would leave after I like asked her to blow dry it. And then I would come back. So. Thank goodness now that's, I think now I've been wearing it only curly for 20 years and I have not blow dried it in at least 10 years. And I, I'm me, I'm me now.
Speaker #1
I love it.
Speaker #0
That's beautiful.
Speaker #1
I love that too. Somewhat wavy and swavy women have just spoken because that's also a huge divide in the curly community. And I have to speak for myself on this one. I'd if you had a wave, I didn't think you were curly before I started working here. I was like, oh, it's wavy hair. You have to do so much to encourage it. It's not curls. Every type, every form, every bend in the hair, that is a curl. And so many women come in who have wavy hair and they'll say, well, everyone tells me it's not curly and I don't know where to go because it doesn't fully work out with like a straight hair technique. But curly hair doesn't seem to like, I don't feel like I fit in. And it's like, trust me, you belong. You are wavy. You are valid in that. And it's an experience that you have your own journey on. That's completely different than mine, but it's real.
Speaker #0
Do you guys want to address some of the surprises, right? I know you and I talked about it in your podcast, and Alex, because you're the latest edition, I'd love to hear from you the ancestral wisdom myths that really shocked you.
Speaker #2
Oh my goodness. So when I had my, I call it my Oasis baptism. My first day of work here, like onboarding and everything, right before I was about to leave, what Faye said, so do you want us to set your curls? And I was like, yes, of course. Like, I'm in the curly Oasis. Yes, I want my curls set. And so everyone came by and is washing my hair, and I left out of here with my curls looking more beautiful than they've ever looked before. And then I get home the next couple of days and I'm like, so when do I oil my scalp? And, you know, like, what do I, how do I maintain this and everything? And they're like, yeah, no oils. So, so much of what we were taught all our lives to grease our scalps, to seal in the moisture with heavy oils and things. Like a lot of it is just that, it's ancestral wisdom. But ancestral wisdom is really based in your ancestors doing the best they could with what they had. And, you know, we had to grow from that place. So when I got here is when a lot of that growth happened because I had been taught to, you know, use the blue magic, the grease with the petrochemicals and the synthetic fragrances and the microplastics. All the things we tell y'all not to do is what I have been doing my whole life. So definitely that really helped make me a believer was my own journey since I got here. learning to like the truth versus like what I had been taught all my life.
Speaker #0
Well, in greasing your scalp, that's such an interesting concept because, you know, we have sebaceous glands that are producing oil. And, you know, if your facial skin is oily, as the Curly Girl book, you know, taught us, so is your scalp. It's just an extension of your face. And so now you're putting these non-water soluble ingredients on it. that's actually hindering the natural ecosystem of your scalp from functioning properly. But again, I mean, it's not that people are evil. It's the, you know, it's just the awareness, right? We're learning more and more. And I love that you mentioned the microplastics and the petrochemicals. And, you know, yes, we do have gentlemen here. I'm going to speak to everyone, but ladies, especially because we're... We're the ones spending more time on lotions and makeup and hair and all the things that we put on our bodies. Do your research. Just take the first five ingredients and look it up through the Environmental Working Group. And there's another app that is called INCI, I-N-C-I, that's out of Europe, because European standards are a little stricter than ours. And see what you're actually putting on your bodies. What is your skin absorbing? We do a lot of research here, and what we're finding the most is that a lot of the ingredients that are used in our beauty care actually disrupt our endocrine system. I mean, that's serious. Hormones are everything. And, you know, just do the research. And we're finding also that in brown and black communities, there are more incidents and risks of cancer that is linked. to disruption of the endocrine system. And again, manufacturers are not evil, but we do vote with our dollar. And so if we can take the time to become aware and educated and start making more demands and supporting companies that are taking these things more seriously, then eventually there will be a tidal wave and everything will change.
Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. It's time for change. And I think that's something that... is heavily focused on in the curl community, in the world in this day and age, realistically. We are moving forward, and that's one thing that we have to do with our hair, is move forward. We cannot continue to be held to these standards.
Speaker #0
Yes, Luby.
Speaker #3
I want to say that Wafaa changed my life. Because as a public speaker, and I always said, I need to look professional. And to look professional meant I had to go get my hair straightened and do the whole thing of getting it rolled, blow-dried, ironed to look good, right? To look right. to fit in what was considered professional. And it was when I was asked to speak. at Microsoft for Martin Luther King Jr. weekend. And I said, what am I doing? Am I going to go? And as one of the speakers said, am I going to be authentically me? Or am I going to be what?
Speaker #0
so-called others think I should be. And that was the beginning. And Wafat knows every time I had something to go to, I didn't go anymore to the Dominican Republican hairdressers, who I loved and spent hours. But I came here, and coming here was coming home. Aww. having hair was coming home.
Speaker #1
It's beautiful.
Speaker #0
You know, I grew up the first time I went to a hairdresser, a white hairdresser, and the first thing I heard as a child was, she has bad hair. And I feel for the girls, and that's why I brought a young woman here that I said I wanted her to know. before she goes to NYU. Katty, I said, I want you to be here. I want you to hear what they've got, because this is something that mattered to me, that I wish I knew at 18. So we pass it forward. Thank you.
Speaker #2
Thank you. Thank you, Ruby.
Speaker #3
And I just want to say, you know, she's giving me credit, but really it is a collective. And there are curl specialists all over the country. It is definitely growing more and more. Not enough, but I do want to make that clear that that is something that is happening in the world.
Speaker #1
Yes, absolutely. And, Ruby, you made numerous amazing points. For one, thank you so much. for sharing and bringing someone into this space. I think that's a lot of times people, you know, get told about these spaces and that's really how we start. But another point that you made was authenticity. And I would love to hear anyone who would love to share their story about how authentic they felt prior to. understanding their curls. I know for myself, there was a point when I was getting relaxers and straightening. And then you asked yourself, how authentic do I feel? Or do I feel like I'm fitting into a mold?
Speaker #4
This is a Shira again. Hello,
Speaker #1
Shira.
Speaker #4
It's just one thing that I want to say about this, which is that. I always felt like there was a part of me that was a fraud because of like I had there's embarrassment and this like hiding and I had to change things and I do have to say that since and I told you my 40s but it's really my mid-40s that I came here and it did help me feel like myself and a true authentic version you know just living and owning my my look yeah absolutely you you
Speaker #5
uh i was born in the united states and i grew up in a predominantly white community and so my curly hair was always something that made me different um and not part of the crowd and I was already not a popular kid for many reasons. So I spent so much time trying to straighten my hair and it would just turn into these like grotesque waves and eventually I I gave up and just cut it super, super short. But that also prevented me from being able to achieve a look that I wanted to achieve. And over the years, I tried to grow up my hair. And I would always hit this like threshold of like two, two or three inches where the frizz would start coming in and I'll try to control it. And it just seemed to use more and more handfuls of product every day, to the point where the hair was just so heavy, it just looked like I was dumped to Greece. to my head. And then I gave up for a long time until the pandemic hit and my hair grew out and I was debating cutting it. And I was like, you know what, let me check out a place that focuses on curly hair. And I just Googled this and this place was only 10 minutes from where I lived, luckily, and came here and it was really transformative. I walked through those doors and being able to grow out my hair and just... get that little extra boost of confidence that I needed really had a big impact in me just being able to express myself in other ways and it's been a this place is kind of like family I some someone asked me just today like do I work here I'm like no but I'm here all this Yeah, so it's really special to be able to find your authentic beauty and to allow it to shine through. And then that allows more deeper versions of yourself to emerge as well.
Speaker #1
I don't know why, but this whole conversation, I'm tearing. A little bit. Group curl therapy, and I'm really here for it. Anyone else? Anyone else? London,
Speaker #3
I'm not going to make you speak because you don't want to, but we do have a young representative here. Wait, but how old are you? Twelve. That's something to celebrate, that a 12-year-old gets to feel empowered in her natural crown. That's definitely something we're very proud of. And it's one of our favorite things to do, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, we love empowering the young generation. As Luby said, pass it forward.
Speaker #3
Absolutely.
Speaker #6
so usually I'm like nervous to talk in front of people I'm not nervous to be behind the chair but I'm nervous but to talk around people and whatnot okay so I grew up not being not being black enough and not being white enough and so I tried everything that I could do to be black I tried to braid my hair, straighten my hair with a hot comb, which was not right for my hair. My mom killed me about that, you know. It was kind of hard because I went to a predominantly black school. And then I started working at a predominantly straight hair salon. And I would always tell them, can I straighten your hair? Can you straighten my hair? Can you straighten my hair? No one wanted to straighten my hair. They were scared to straighten my hair. They thought it was going to take a long time. However, just coming here and being able to be myself, I'm just very grateful that we can come here and we can talk about our journey and our stories. And it's not just one predominantly race. It's everybody because everyone had their chance to deal with their hair, deal with their waves. You curly girl, don't matter. You got a crinkle. It's curly. But just being able to just do that and just talk freely. among each other is just amazing. And we're therapists also. Y'all know that, right? Yeah. Thank you for letting me talk. I usually don't talk. I wasn't going to talk, but thank you.
Speaker #2
Beautiful.
Speaker #1
We thank you guys all for your time today. It is so appreciated to hear everyone's insight. and their voices. We want you to know your voice is always heard, especially in this space. And just to constantly remember that it's a collective. It's a collective effort. It's a collective space. And it takes each individual person, each individual Curly, Wavy, Swavy, whoever you are to embrace and empower not only yourself, but really the future generation. So thank you guys so much.
Speaker #2
Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you everyone.
Speaker #7
The Curl Code was brought to you from the Oasis Curl Salon at Rockville, Maryland, hosted by the one and only Wafeya Abdullah. If you like the show, please leave us a five-star rating, and if you've got some nice things to say, go ahead and leave us a review. But most importantly, please share the show with anyone you think would enjoy it. Learn more about Curly Oasis at www.curlyoasis.com and continue your curl education journey by finding them on Instagram and YouTube. The curl code is a Say Miller Production.

About The Curl Code: how curl care and self care means wellness for all

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About The Curl Code: how curl care and self care means wellness for all

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Speaker #0
Welcome to Season 2 of the Curl Follies. We're celebrating our new season by sharing the live recording of the podcast launch party from last year. Our guests shared stories, lessons, and memories that exemplify the kind of vulnerability and authenticity we stand for. It was amazing to hear how many experiences we share, how much has changed. and yet still needs to change to make space for all of us to live authentically. Our time at that gathering was truly a gift, and one I am so honored to share with all of you now. When I bought this business in 2005, it was not a curly hair salon. It was your average salon trying to find its way. And so we want to start a conversation about natural hair. And I'm going to have Sydney and Alex really lead it. And so ladies, take it away.
Speaker #1
Okay, hi, welcome everyone. So as you guys know, I am Syd. I'm one of the stylists here at Oasis.
Speaker #2
Alex, one of the other stylists here.
Speaker #1
And the purpose of tonight is to really bring awareness to the dialogue. and the culture around curly hair. I know the fact that every single person in this room being a curly headed person has had their own experience with curly hair and has their own story to share behind that. So an open question we would love for anyone who who has an opinion, a voice to speak, we would love to know what your experience is with curly hair. We would love to know what did you think when you first realized you had curly hair?
Speaker #0
Ausha. I can't believe you guys want to know this. This is great.
Speaker #3
I had struggled with it my whole life. It actually It wasn't until I came to this salon in my 40s that I learned how to style it. And it was,
Speaker #0
I did everything. I went to the wrong people and got it cut and looked.
Speaker #3
looked like that I was called Elvis for a few years and still has a nickname because of that. I brush it. My mom was always trying to brush it.
Speaker #0
That did not work out well.
Speaker #3
I mean,
Speaker #0
frizz was, I must've had every
Speaker #3
every frizz product on the market and none of them work, right?
Speaker #0
Because,
Speaker #3
you know, you just,
Speaker #0
I didn't know how to use them.
Speaker #3
Washing all the time, getting it blow dried straight as whenever somebody could, you know, like a special treat.
Speaker #0
And then when I got older, I did Brazilians for years,
Speaker #3
straightening it because I did not know how to manage it.
Speaker #1
And understandable. I mean. I mean, no one teaches it, right? It's just something that we're all given. I mean, curly hair is the dominant trait, and we're expected to either conform to societal norms and to change it or deal with the frizz, deal with the unmanageability of it.
Speaker #0
From my late teens through my early mid-30s, I wore a lot of wigs, three-quarter pieces,
Speaker #3
and ponytails.
Speaker #0
Yeah, like that was how much I didn't know what to do. Like I said, not until my 40s when I came here.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Anyone else want to share their experience?
Speaker #0
That was Ausha. And now we have Debra.
Speaker #3
I think I have always struggled with my hair. And it's just never been a big deal for me to have perfect hair. I think when I was in my teens, I liked to go swimming. And I would swim in the summer. And I'd look like straw. But it didn't matter because it wasn't all that important to me. And then when I graduated from business school, trying to look like the professional woman, I was living in Chicago. And I went to this great salon. And they blow-dried my hair. And I curled it and so on. And it looked great. And one day in particular, I was like, I'm going to go to the salon. particular, I went and I paid the, you know, several hundred dollars to get my hair done. And I didn't have enough cash for a tip. So I said to my stylist, I'm going to run to the ATM. And I ran out to the ATM and I came back and she's like, is it raining? What happened to your hair? And I said, this is what happens all the time. Like I leave here and it looks perfect and I get out and it frizzes and it's this whole other thing. And she said, well, I can redo it. And I said, no, I'm okay with it. And I think that's the point at which I thought, get okay with it. You're spending far too much money. And then again, I love my stylist. She was amazing. But this, her reaction was probably the reaction that I had and that like, oh my God, I'm spending all this money and this is it. So I, I then accepted it. And that started on the journey. And it is a journey. Like what products to use? What's the right length? Because by then it was longer. Do I go shorter? It's such a journey. And then when I start to go gray, like what do I color? We're still working through. I've had a couple of therapy sessions here, but that's, it's, it's an ongoing journey, but then so is pretty much everything in life.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I mean, I think Alex and I can both attest to the get okay with it. I know Alex, you've had your own personal experiences growing up. with what your hair is like and what that journey is.
Speaker #2
Exactly. So my realization of having curly hair wasn't that I had curly hair because I was told my hair was nappy.
Speaker #1
So
Speaker #2
I didn't realize I had curly hair until I finally got to a point after relaxing my hair for 20 years and fighting with my hair for my whole life that I was just like, you know, I was learning my son's hair because he was about, you know, getting to be about a year old and I was learning his curls. And I'm like, if... I gave birth to him and he has curls. I probably got the same hair. So let me see what's up under here. You know, if I leave these relaxers alone and that's when I realized I had curly hair and then the floodgates opened and I was, you know, scrounging YouTube and Instagram and TikTok for any wisdom I could find on curly hair. But I found a lot of good marketing, not really the wisdom I needed until I came to Oasis.
Speaker #1
Yes. That marketing piece, I mean, it gets every curly person. Because again, we're being told to manage it, to tame our mane, and it's unrealistic for our hair. It's not what our hair is meant to do. Our hair is perfectly okay the way it is, and it needs more representation. And I mean, how many of us feel represented in the world with our natural texture, realistically here? No one. It's not a thing. Not yet, at least.
Speaker #4
Allison? Okay, yeah, it was perfect. So growing up, I was one of six kids, and my brother nicknamed me Rattles because I had ratty hair. Like, that's what he, that's what they, because it was curly. My siblings had manageable hair. I also couldn't wash it every day or every other day like the kids in school, and I think that they knew that. So that was another form of, like, teasing, you know. Dorothy Hamill was a big hair. I couldn't do that hairdo. My sister, first day of school. I mean, I'm over it.
Speaker #0
It sounds like I'm killing it.
Speaker #4
But I remember she had the Dorothy Hamill and she had dark hair and dark eyes like her. And I had this bouffant that looked awful. And I was in the first grade. I looked like I was 40. So it's interesting. I didn't get curly embracing until I came here in my mid-40s. Up until that point, I would often chemically treat it or flat iron it. It was constantly up in a bun or a scrunchie because I didn't know how to either manage it or embrace it. And I think if you grow up in a period of time where that's the beauty is that the blonde poker straight hair or the Farrah Fawcett feathered hair, and you can't achieve that, you try to hide it or mask it or manipulate it. And it never, I think the woman over here had said the second I would hit outside, no matter how much they did to manipulate. And it was a lot. it would be like what happened you know so it's great in this age of 2023 that we're i'm seeing more even curly-haired actresses on tv that's a nice thing to see because i used to try to like find those individuals the only one i remember it was er i can't remember her name julia something and i was like oh finally acrylic yes and it was great because i saw a curly-haired actress on tv who wasn't doing the jennifer aniston look so I know, which only reinforced I should be doing something to manipulate my hair not to be curly. So thank you for.
Speaker #1
No, absolutely. Thank you for sharing. It's important to highlight these moments when we do finally realize. Someone over here.
Speaker #0
Oh, please come up.
Speaker #3
My perspective on my curly hair has been difficult and associated with a lot of pain. I'm a member of the baby boomer generation. And during a time when I was growing, and I'm five generations removed from slavery. So that's the environment I grew up in. And as I was, until I could manage my hair myself, getting my hair done. Getting my hair washed, even washed, was painful because what followed was a painful... step of getting my hair straightened with a hot comb and grease and the grease would run it down into my scalp and burn my scalp. That's what they did and the perspective on curly hair when I was growing up was that it was there was something wrong with you that you had not been that God had not treated you well. by giving you curly hair and that you were not an attractive person because of it. And so everything that could be done to make your hair straight was done. As a matter of fact, I think in some of the cotillions you had to pass the test to have straight hair. I know there was the brown bag test. You had to, your skin had to be lighter than a brown paper bag in order to be, to, yes, be allowed in, but straight hair was also a requirement. And I think the thing I want to share with you that is most painful to me and also representative of how my generation viewed curly hair was my mother's last words to me on her dying bed was to get my hair straight. That's how important it was. And the amount of money that I've spent, because when I went to work in corporate America, you could not have curly hair. I drew up and, you know, I was an adult when the notion of wearing an afro became acceptable. And so. When I came into corporate America, you couldn't do that, and particularly women, by the way, because there was a lot of bias. I went to work for AT&T, and the attitude toward women at that time was that only women of ill repute went to work. So in order to come into a company building, you had to have white gloves and a hat. And fortunately, I lived to see that. change over time. But, you know, so there was the feminine beauty aspects to deal with. And there was also the, I will call it the ethnic aspects to deal with. So I am so pleased to have witnessed that whole transformation and to discover that it's no longer considered a thing. that there's something wrong with you or that you're defective. As a matter of fact, I have girlfriends, I have a girlfriend who is blonde and blue eyed, her hair is curlier than mine. So a lot of those myths and attitudes have changed over time. And I just want to say, I'm glad.
Speaker #0
Thank you, Joe.
Speaker #1
You made some amazing points with your words. You had mentioned the cultural background of course but also the ancestral background of natural hair and I'm sure for not only African American women but for women of many different ethnic groups women and men people out there have experienced their as Alex loves to say their ancestral wisdom behind their hair and the fact that people who were not of a certain standard in this country and in many other countries have experienced discrimination based off of their hair I mean, even in the workplace, like you had mentioned, we have the Crown Act now that, you know, banned the discrimination of natural hair textures in the workplace because it is that deep and it goes so much deeper beyond that. I mean, Alex, I know you have your own experience with workplace discrimination of hair.
Speaker #2
Oh, my gosh. Yes. So I spent a good eight years on active duty in the military and the hair standards have come a long way, like as far as the inclusivity of it all. But back when I came in, I just can't remember being in technical training school and having my hair out and like a little puff behind my hat and everything. And, you know, a T.I. walked up to me and just was like, you know, I bet if I put a ruler up to your hair, it's greater than three inches in bulk, which was the dress and appearance standard for women's hair. And I was just like, well, I can't really like that's my hair. What you want me to do? You know, but it just. Thankfully, the standards have changed to a point where they include people whose hair is just naturally bulky and... you know, we can live our lives now in a way that includes everyone instead of excluding people simply for the way the hair grows out of their scalp.
Speaker #0
Absolutely. And what Sydney's referring to, I don't know if you all are aware of what the Crown Act is. It is, what is it, an act that's being proposed and it's going state by state where people can wear their, you can't discriminate against natural texture in the workplace. place. Yeah,
Speaker #1
and of course this goes for curlies of all types, but how many of you guys have, you know, gotten ready for work one day and... your curls had started to curl maybe you had recently gotten a blowout or some kind of straightening style and then that little bit of frizz starts peeking through that tiny bit of curl starts to show itself and then you think am i going to be questioned for how my hair looks is this professional i mean what defines professionalism the way my hair is straightened or
Speaker #0
how i show up and perform my job good one absolutely yeah and earlier i think Ausha you were saying and for special occasions i would get it straightened We hear that so much. You know, it's a special occasion. I have to get my hair straightened. Why don't you bleach your skin while you're at it, right? Or whatever else. I don't know, get a nose job. I mean, that's really what we're saying because it's part of our biological makeup. up and so that's also I think what you're alluding to Sydney is you know how do you feel represented in the world how do you feel as far as curly hair and professionalism I'd love to hear some thoughts around that
Speaker #5
Hi, I'm Nichelle. I am a longtime believer in this space. It was this space that helped me to understand that I had a network of people that that could help me overcome some of the trauma that I had that came along with the expectation of straight hair. I work at a predominantly white institution in Washington, DC. And when I got my job, of course I had to. to straighten my hair and I definitely feel like there are these expectations that you're more professional you are seen to be more validated if you have the straight hair. coming into this space coming into your like support network I just felt like I was available to combat some of the like hurt that comes with denying aspects of my personality that come with the curly hair I definitely love when I can go through my school community I'm a pre-k teacher and I love that the kids are like You have curly hair, like you wear your hair in this, you know, kind of this afro. And I love that I can say to kids who are curious about touching someone's hair, like, don't touch my hair. Let's read this book. There's a rare old book called Don't Touch My Hair. And historically speaking, I think predominantly white institutions. the lower school, the elementary level, there's a lot of curiosity that comes with. So I definitely know that the courage and the affirmation that I received in this space and actually coming to appointments where I'm like, oh, okay, so everyone, you know, the level of melanin is different. The people that come here, they all have this curly hair journey and you're my sister. You're my people. And you embrace your journey in the same way that I do, in a way that I never did before. Like you open up the space for me to see that I'm not by myself. And as an early childhood professional, I only encourage. individuals to be who they are.
Speaker #1
Beautiful, Nichelle.
Speaker #0
Thank you.
Speaker #1
And to go off, you made some amazing points about it's not just ethnic. I mean, how many white women with curly hair felt felt like they could not go to a non-white salon to get their hair done? How many of them felt uncomfortable walking in the door saying, they're not gonna know how to treat my hair, they're not going to know what to do with my hair, right? And then let's switch that role. How many women of color have gone to a predominantly white salon and said, I don't know what to do with my hair. That wall is there. That ethnic wall is there throughout this entire community and it is so much greater than it seems. The curly industry is one of the most beautiful things because we tried to break down that barrier. We tried to eliminate the divide between I mean white and non-white people and say you know what most people in this universe have curly hair why can't we come together and do it as one I love those points Michelle thank you
Speaker #6
Susan so I want to um say that I had no idea what the topic was tonight and I think that that was definitely not a coincidence I had no idea about any of this hardship And I've always wanted to have curly hair. And the fact of the matter is, while you all were speaking, is like the person I want to date, I want him to have curly hair. And so I want, and I spent, I remember my mom used to buy these curlers, those foam pink curlers and the electric curlers. And you snapped them in. And I used to always love like to put curlers in my hair and have. curly hair and I also got perms as a kid and they never looked as beautiful as your hair. I didn't have trauma over my hair. So what didn't walk around saying, oh, I'm, I'm feeling trauma because my hair is not curly, but I always thought curly haired people were more fun. And I was like, And I'm noticing I had all these biases and stereotypes, and I was just thinking about that. And I remember recently, so now that you're all talking about this, I really started to see more curly hair because I remember one time a woman had a beautiful, very high curly hair do experience, whatever. And I almost didn't tell her how beautiful her hair was because I was afraid to. So. And now I'm wondering why, I wonder why that was. And maybe I was picking up that there was some trauma behind the hair, or I didn't want to insult. Maybe it was the white divide, you know, because this was a black woman. But her hair was really cool. It had different curls and colors, and she was so beautiful, the hair, you know. So, um... I can't wait to come here and get my hair more curly because it's wavy. So maybe we can boost it up and I can like, you know, do whatever. You do it tonight.
Speaker #1
Yes, Christina.
Speaker #4
I would love to actually. So I'm Christina and I've been sitting next to Linda and we just had this conversation about how we think her hair is curly. And I actually started coming to this salon when I was 16 years old. And my hair was straight because I was blow drying it all the time.
Speaker #0
And when
Speaker #4
Wafeya started getting into the curly,
Speaker #0
she,
Speaker #4
we, I think we had the same conversation every time I came here for a year about how my hair was actually curly. And I was like, no, no, no, it's not. And then I would leave after I like asked her to blow dry it. And then I would come back. So. Thank goodness now that's, I think now I've been wearing it only curly for 20 years and I have not blow dried it in at least 10 years. And I, I'm me, I'm me now.
Speaker #1
I love it.
Speaker #0
That's beautiful.
Speaker #1
I love that too. Somewhat wavy and swavy women have just spoken because that's also a huge divide in the curly community. And I have to speak for myself on this one. I'd if you had a wave, I didn't think you were curly before I started working here. I was like, oh, it's wavy hair. You have to do so much to encourage it. It's not curls. Every type, every form, every bend in the hair, that is a curl. And so many women come in who have wavy hair and they'll say, well, everyone tells me it's not curly and I don't know where to go because it doesn't fully work out with like a straight hair technique. But curly hair doesn't seem to like, I don't feel like I fit in. And it's like, trust me, you belong. You are wavy. You are valid in that. And it's an experience that you have your own journey on. That's completely different than mine, but it's real.
Speaker #0
Do you guys want to address some of the surprises, right? I know you and I talked about it in your podcast, and Alex, because you're the latest edition, I'd love to hear from you the ancestral wisdom myths that really shocked you.
Speaker #2
Oh my goodness. So when I had my, I call it my Oasis baptism. My first day of work here, like onboarding and everything, right before I was about to leave, what Faye said, so do you want us to set your curls? And I was like, yes, of course. Like, I'm in the curly Oasis. Yes, I want my curls set. And so everyone came by and is washing my hair, and I left out of here with my curls looking more beautiful than they've ever looked before. And then I get home the next couple of days and I'm like, so when do I oil my scalp? And, you know, like, what do I, how do I maintain this and everything? And they're like, yeah, no oils. So, so much of what we were taught all our lives to grease our scalps, to seal in the moisture with heavy oils and things. Like a lot of it is just that, it's ancestral wisdom. But ancestral wisdom is really based in your ancestors doing the best they could with what they had. And, you know, we had to grow from that place. So when I got here is when a lot of that growth happened because I had been taught to, you know, use the blue magic, the grease with the petrochemicals and the synthetic fragrances and the microplastics. All the things we tell y'all not to do is what I have been doing my whole life. So definitely that really helped make me a believer was my own journey since I got here. learning to like the truth versus like what I had been taught all my life.
Speaker #0
Well, in greasing your scalp, that's such an interesting concept because, you know, we have sebaceous glands that are producing oil. And, you know, if your facial skin is oily, as the Curly Girl book, you know, taught us, so is your scalp. It's just an extension of your face. And so now you're putting these non-water soluble ingredients on it. that's actually hindering the natural ecosystem of your scalp from functioning properly. But again, I mean, it's not that people are evil. It's the, you know, it's just the awareness, right? We're learning more and more. And I love that you mentioned the microplastics and the petrochemicals. And, you know, yes, we do have gentlemen here. I'm going to speak to everyone, but ladies, especially because we're... We're the ones spending more time on lotions and makeup and hair and all the things that we put on our bodies. Do your research. Just take the first five ingredients and look it up through the Environmental Working Group. And there's another app that is called INCI, I-N-C-I, that's out of Europe, because European standards are a little stricter than ours. And see what you're actually putting on your bodies. What is your skin absorbing? We do a lot of research here, and what we're finding the most is that a lot of the ingredients that are used in our beauty care actually disrupt our endocrine system. I mean, that's serious. Hormones are everything. And, you know, just do the research. And we're finding also that in brown and black communities, there are more incidents and risks of cancer that is linked. to disruption of the endocrine system. And again, manufacturers are not evil, but we do vote with our dollar. And so if we can take the time to become aware and educated and start making more demands and supporting companies that are taking these things more seriously, then eventually there will be a tidal wave and everything will change.
Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. It's time for change. And I think that's something that... is heavily focused on in the curl community, in the world in this day and age, realistically. We are moving forward, and that's one thing that we have to do with our hair, is move forward. We cannot continue to be held to these standards.
Speaker #0
Yes, Luby.
Speaker #3
I want to say that Wafaa changed my life. Because as a public speaker, and I always said, I need to look professional. And to look professional meant I had to go get my hair straightened and do the whole thing of getting it rolled, blow-dried, ironed to look good, right? To look right. to fit in what was considered professional. And it was when I was asked to speak. at Microsoft for Martin Luther King Jr. weekend. And I said, what am I doing? Am I going to go? And as one of the speakers said, am I going to be authentically me? Or am I going to be what?
Speaker #0
so-called others think I should be. And that was the beginning. And Wafat knows every time I had something to go to, I didn't go anymore to the Dominican Republican hairdressers, who I loved and spent hours. But I came here, and coming here was coming home. Aww. having hair was coming home.
Speaker #1
It's beautiful.
Speaker #0
You know, I grew up the first time I went to a hairdresser, a white hairdresser, and the first thing I heard as a child was, she has bad hair. And I feel for the girls, and that's why I brought a young woman here that I said I wanted her to know. before she goes to NYU. Katty, I said, I want you to be here. I want you to hear what they've got, because this is something that mattered to me, that I wish I knew at 18. So we pass it forward. Thank you.
Speaker #2
Thank you. Thank you, Ruby.
Speaker #3
And I just want to say, you know, she's giving me credit, but really it is a collective. And there are curl specialists all over the country. It is definitely growing more and more. Not enough, but I do want to make that clear that that is something that is happening in the world.
Speaker #1
Yes, absolutely. And, Ruby, you made numerous amazing points. For one, thank you so much. for sharing and bringing someone into this space. I think that's a lot of times people, you know, get told about these spaces and that's really how we start. But another point that you made was authenticity. And I would love to hear anyone who would love to share their story about how authentic they felt prior to. understanding their curls. I know for myself, there was a point when I was getting relaxers and straightening. And then you asked yourself, how authentic do I feel? Or do I feel like I'm fitting into a mold?
Speaker #4
This is a Shira again. Hello,
Speaker #1
Shira.
Speaker #4
It's just one thing that I want to say about this, which is that. I always felt like there was a part of me that was a fraud because of like I had there's embarrassment and this like hiding and I had to change things and I do have to say that since and I told you my 40s but it's really my mid-40s that I came here and it did help me feel like myself and a true authentic version you know just living and owning my my look yeah absolutely you you
Speaker #5
uh i was born in the united states and i grew up in a predominantly white community and so my curly hair was always something that made me different um and not part of the crowd and I was already not a popular kid for many reasons. So I spent so much time trying to straighten my hair and it would just turn into these like grotesque waves and eventually I I gave up and just cut it super, super short. But that also prevented me from being able to achieve a look that I wanted to achieve. And over the years, I tried to grow up my hair. And I would always hit this like threshold of like two, two or three inches where the frizz would start coming in and I'll try to control it. And it just seemed to use more and more handfuls of product every day, to the point where the hair was just so heavy, it just looked like I was dumped to Greece. to my head. And then I gave up for a long time until the pandemic hit and my hair grew out and I was debating cutting it. And I was like, you know what, let me check out a place that focuses on curly hair. And I just Googled this and this place was only 10 minutes from where I lived, luckily, and came here and it was really transformative. I walked through those doors and being able to grow out my hair and just... get that little extra boost of confidence that I needed really had a big impact in me just being able to express myself in other ways and it's been a this place is kind of like family I some someone asked me just today like do I work here I'm like no but I'm here all this Yeah, so it's really special to be able to find your authentic beauty and to allow it to shine through. And then that allows more deeper versions of yourself to emerge as well.
Speaker #1
I don't know why, but this whole conversation, I'm tearing. A little bit. Group curl therapy, and I'm really here for it. Anyone else? Anyone else? London,
Speaker #3
I'm not going to make you speak because you don't want to, but we do have a young representative here. Wait, but how old are you? Twelve. That's something to celebrate, that a 12-year-old gets to feel empowered in her natural crown. That's definitely something we're very proud of. And it's one of our favorite things to do, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, we love empowering the young generation. As Luby said, pass it forward.
Speaker #3
Absolutely.
Speaker #6
so usually I'm like nervous to talk in front of people I'm not nervous to be behind the chair but I'm nervous but to talk around people and whatnot okay so I grew up not being not being black enough and not being white enough and so I tried everything that I could do to be black I tried to braid my hair, straighten my hair with a hot comb, which was not right for my hair. My mom killed me about that, you know. It was kind of hard because I went to a predominantly black school. And then I started working at a predominantly straight hair salon. And I would always tell them, can I straighten your hair? Can you straighten my hair? Can you straighten my hair? No one wanted to straighten my hair. They were scared to straighten my hair. They thought it was going to take a long time. However, just coming here and being able to be myself, I'm just very grateful that we can come here and we can talk about our journey and our stories. And it's not just one predominantly race. It's everybody because everyone had their chance to deal with their hair, deal with their waves. You curly girl, don't matter. You got a crinkle. It's curly. But just being able to just do that and just talk freely. among each other is just amazing. And we're therapists also. Y'all know that, right? Yeah. Thank you for letting me talk. I usually don't talk. I wasn't going to talk, but thank you.
Speaker #2
Beautiful.
Speaker #1
We thank you guys all for your time today. It is so appreciated to hear everyone's insight. and their voices. We want you to know your voice is always heard, especially in this space. And just to constantly remember that it's a collective. It's a collective effort. It's a collective space. And it takes each individual person, each individual Curly, Wavy, Swavy, whoever you are to embrace and empower not only yourself, but really the future generation. So thank you guys so much.
Speaker #2
Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you everyone.
Speaker #7
The Curl Code was brought to you from the Oasis Curl Salon at Rockville, Maryland, hosted by the one and only Wafeya Abdullah. If you like the show, please leave us a five-star rating, and if you've got some nice things to say, go ahead and leave us a review. But most importantly, please share the show with anyone you think would enjoy it. Learn more about Curly Oasis at www.curlyoasis.com and continue your curl education journey by finding them on Instagram and YouTube. The curl code is a Say Miller Production.

About The Curl Code: how curl care and self care means wellness for all

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About The Curl Code: how curl care and self care means wellness for all

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Welcome to Season 2 of the Curl Follies. We're celebrating our new season by sharing the live recording of the podcast launch party from last year. Our guests shared stories, lessons, and memories that exemplify the kind of vulnerability and authenticity we stand for. It was amazing to hear how many experiences we share, how much has changed. and yet still needs to change to make space for all of us to live authentically. Our time at that gathering was truly a gift, and one I am so honored to share with all of you now. When I bought this business in 2005, it was not a curly hair salon. It was your average salon trying to find its way. And so we want to start a conversation about natural hair. And I'm going to have Sydney and Alex really lead it. And so ladies, take it away.
Speaker #1
Okay, hi, welcome everyone. So as you guys know, I am Syd. I'm one of the stylists here at Oasis.
Speaker #2
Alex, one of the other stylists here.
Speaker #1
And the purpose of tonight is to really bring awareness to the dialogue. and the culture around curly hair. I know the fact that every single person in this room being a curly headed person has had their own experience with curly hair and has their own story to share behind that. So an open question we would love for anyone who who has an opinion, a voice to speak, we would love to know what your experience is with curly hair. We would love to know what did you think when you first realized you had curly hair?
Speaker #0
Ausha. I can't believe you guys want to know this. This is great.
Speaker #3
I had struggled with it my whole life. It actually It wasn't until I came to this salon in my 40s that I learned how to style it. And it was,
Speaker #0
I did everything. I went to the wrong people and got it cut and looked.
Speaker #3
looked like that I was called Elvis for a few years and still has a nickname because of that. I brush it. My mom was always trying to brush it.
Speaker #0
That did not work out well.
Speaker #3
I mean,
Speaker #0
frizz was, I must've had every
Speaker #3
every frizz product on the market and none of them work, right?
Speaker #0
Because,
Speaker #3
you know, you just,
Speaker #0
I didn't know how to use them.
Speaker #3
Washing all the time, getting it blow dried straight as whenever somebody could, you know, like a special treat.
Speaker #0
And then when I got older, I did Brazilians for years,
Speaker #3
straightening it because I did not know how to manage it.
Speaker #1
And understandable. I mean. I mean, no one teaches it, right? It's just something that we're all given. I mean, curly hair is the dominant trait, and we're expected to either conform to societal norms and to change it or deal with the frizz, deal with the unmanageability of it.
Speaker #0
From my late teens through my early mid-30s, I wore a lot of wigs, three-quarter pieces,
Speaker #3
and ponytails.
Speaker #0
Yeah, like that was how much I didn't know what to do. Like I said, not until my 40s when I came here.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Anyone else want to share their experience?
Speaker #0
That was Ausha. And now we have Debra.
Speaker #3
I think I have always struggled with my hair. And it's just never been a big deal for me to have perfect hair. I think when I was in my teens, I liked to go swimming. And I would swim in the summer. And I'd look like straw. But it didn't matter because it wasn't all that important to me. And then when I graduated from business school, trying to look like the professional woman, I was living in Chicago. And I went to this great salon. And they blow-dried my hair. And I curled it and so on. And it looked great. And one day in particular, I was like, I'm going to go to the salon. particular, I went and I paid the, you know, several hundred dollars to get my hair done. And I didn't have enough cash for a tip. So I said to my stylist, I'm going to run to the ATM. And I ran out to the ATM and I came back and she's like, is it raining? What happened to your hair? And I said, this is what happens all the time. Like I leave here and it looks perfect and I get out and it frizzes and it's this whole other thing. And she said, well, I can redo it. And I said, no, I'm okay with it. And I think that's the point at which I thought, get okay with it. You're spending far too much money. And then again, I love my stylist. She was amazing. But this, her reaction was probably the reaction that I had and that like, oh my God, I'm spending all this money and this is it. So I, I then accepted it. And that started on the journey. And it is a journey. Like what products to use? What's the right length? Because by then it was longer. Do I go shorter? It's such a journey. And then when I start to go gray, like what do I color? We're still working through. I've had a couple of therapy sessions here, but that's, it's, it's an ongoing journey, but then so is pretty much everything in life.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I mean, I think Alex and I can both attest to the get okay with it. I know Alex, you've had your own personal experiences growing up. with what your hair is like and what that journey is.
Speaker #2
Exactly. So my realization of having curly hair wasn't that I had curly hair because I was told my hair was nappy.
Speaker #1
So
Speaker #2
I didn't realize I had curly hair until I finally got to a point after relaxing my hair for 20 years and fighting with my hair for my whole life that I was just like, you know, I was learning my son's hair because he was about, you know, getting to be about a year old and I was learning his curls. And I'm like, if... I gave birth to him and he has curls. I probably got the same hair. So let me see what's up under here. You know, if I leave these relaxers alone and that's when I realized I had curly hair and then the floodgates opened and I was, you know, scrounging YouTube and Instagram and TikTok for any wisdom I could find on curly hair. But I found a lot of good marketing, not really the wisdom I needed until I came to Oasis.
Speaker #1
Yes. That marketing piece, I mean, it gets every curly person. Because again, we're being told to manage it, to tame our mane, and it's unrealistic for our hair. It's not what our hair is meant to do. Our hair is perfectly okay the way it is, and it needs more representation. And I mean, how many of us feel represented in the world with our natural texture, realistically here? No one. It's not a thing. Not yet, at least.
Speaker #4
Allison? Okay, yeah, it was perfect. So growing up, I was one of six kids, and my brother nicknamed me Rattles because I had ratty hair. Like, that's what he, that's what they, because it was curly. My siblings had manageable hair. I also couldn't wash it every day or every other day like the kids in school, and I think that they knew that. So that was another form of, like, teasing, you know. Dorothy Hamill was a big hair. I couldn't do that hairdo. My sister, first day of school. I mean, I'm over it.
Speaker #0
It sounds like I'm killing it.
Speaker #4
But I remember she had the Dorothy Hamill and she had dark hair and dark eyes like her. And I had this bouffant that looked awful. And I was in the first grade. I looked like I was 40. So it's interesting. I didn't get curly embracing until I came here in my mid-40s. Up until that point, I would often chemically treat it or flat iron it. It was constantly up in a bun or a scrunchie because I didn't know how to either manage it or embrace it. And I think if you grow up in a period of time where that's the beauty is that the blonde poker straight hair or the Farrah Fawcett feathered hair, and you can't achieve that, you try to hide it or mask it or manipulate it. And it never, I think the woman over here had said the second I would hit outside, no matter how much they did to manipulate. And it was a lot. it would be like what happened you know so it's great in this age of 2023 that we're i'm seeing more even curly-haired actresses on tv that's a nice thing to see because i used to try to like find those individuals the only one i remember it was er i can't remember her name julia something and i was like oh finally acrylic yes and it was great because i saw a curly-haired actress on tv who wasn't doing the jennifer aniston look so I know, which only reinforced I should be doing something to manipulate my hair not to be curly. So thank you for.
Speaker #1
No, absolutely. Thank you for sharing. It's important to highlight these moments when we do finally realize. Someone over here.
Speaker #0
Oh, please come up.
Speaker #3
My perspective on my curly hair has been difficult and associated with a lot of pain. I'm a member of the baby boomer generation. And during a time when I was growing, and I'm five generations removed from slavery. So that's the environment I grew up in. And as I was, until I could manage my hair myself, getting my hair done. Getting my hair washed, even washed, was painful because what followed was a painful... step of getting my hair straightened with a hot comb and grease and the grease would run it down into my scalp and burn my scalp. That's what they did and the perspective on curly hair when I was growing up was that it was there was something wrong with you that you had not been that God had not treated you well. by giving you curly hair and that you were not an attractive person because of it. And so everything that could be done to make your hair straight was done. As a matter of fact, I think in some of the cotillions you had to pass the test to have straight hair. I know there was the brown bag test. You had to, your skin had to be lighter than a brown paper bag in order to be, to, yes, be allowed in, but straight hair was also a requirement. And I think the thing I want to share with you that is most painful to me and also representative of how my generation viewed curly hair was my mother's last words to me on her dying bed was to get my hair straight. That's how important it was. And the amount of money that I've spent, because when I went to work in corporate America, you could not have curly hair. I drew up and, you know, I was an adult when the notion of wearing an afro became acceptable. And so. When I came into corporate America, you couldn't do that, and particularly women, by the way, because there was a lot of bias. I went to work for AT&T, and the attitude toward women at that time was that only women of ill repute went to work. So in order to come into a company building, you had to have white gloves and a hat. And fortunately, I lived to see that. change over time. But, you know, so there was the feminine beauty aspects to deal with. And there was also the, I will call it the ethnic aspects to deal with. So I am so pleased to have witnessed that whole transformation and to discover that it's no longer considered a thing. that there's something wrong with you or that you're defective. As a matter of fact, I have girlfriends, I have a girlfriend who is blonde and blue eyed, her hair is curlier than mine. So a lot of those myths and attitudes have changed over time. And I just want to say, I'm glad.
Speaker #0
Thank you, Joe.
Speaker #1
You made some amazing points with your words. You had mentioned the cultural background of course but also the ancestral background of natural hair and I'm sure for not only African American women but for women of many different ethnic groups women and men people out there have experienced their as Alex loves to say their ancestral wisdom behind their hair and the fact that people who were not of a certain standard in this country and in many other countries have experienced discrimination based off of their hair I mean, even in the workplace, like you had mentioned, we have the Crown Act now that, you know, banned the discrimination of natural hair textures in the workplace because it is that deep and it goes so much deeper beyond that. I mean, Alex, I know you have your own experience with workplace discrimination of hair.
Speaker #2
Oh, my gosh. Yes. So I spent a good eight years on active duty in the military and the hair standards have come a long way, like as far as the inclusivity of it all. But back when I came in, I just can't remember being in technical training school and having my hair out and like a little puff behind my hat and everything. And, you know, a T.I. walked up to me and just was like, you know, I bet if I put a ruler up to your hair, it's greater than three inches in bulk, which was the dress and appearance standard for women's hair. And I was just like, well, I can't really like that's my hair. What you want me to do? You know, but it just. Thankfully, the standards have changed to a point where they include people whose hair is just naturally bulky and... you know, we can live our lives now in a way that includes everyone instead of excluding people simply for the way the hair grows out of their scalp.
Speaker #0
Absolutely. And what Sydney's referring to, I don't know if you all are aware of what the Crown Act is. It is, what is it, an act that's being proposed and it's going state by state where people can wear their, you can't discriminate against natural texture in the workplace. place. Yeah,
Speaker #1
and of course this goes for curlies of all types, but how many of you guys have, you know, gotten ready for work one day and... your curls had started to curl maybe you had recently gotten a blowout or some kind of straightening style and then that little bit of frizz starts peeking through that tiny bit of curl starts to show itself and then you think am i going to be questioned for how my hair looks is this professional i mean what defines professionalism the way my hair is straightened or
Speaker #0
how i show up and perform my job good one absolutely yeah and earlier i think Ausha you were saying and for special occasions i would get it straightened We hear that so much. You know, it's a special occasion. I have to get my hair straightened. Why don't you bleach your skin while you're at it, right? Or whatever else. I don't know, get a nose job. I mean, that's really what we're saying because it's part of our biological makeup. up and so that's also I think what you're alluding to Sydney is you know how do you feel represented in the world how do you feel as far as curly hair and professionalism I'd love to hear some thoughts around that
Speaker #5
Hi, I'm Nichelle. I am a longtime believer in this space. It was this space that helped me to understand that I had a network of people that that could help me overcome some of the trauma that I had that came along with the expectation of straight hair. I work at a predominantly white institution in Washington, DC. And when I got my job, of course I had to. to straighten my hair and I definitely feel like there are these expectations that you're more professional you are seen to be more validated if you have the straight hair. coming into this space coming into your like support network I just felt like I was available to combat some of the like hurt that comes with denying aspects of my personality that come with the curly hair I definitely love when I can go through my school community I'm a pre-k teacher and I love that the kids are like You have curly hair, like you wear your hair in this, you know, kind of this afro. And I love that I can say to kids who are curious about touching someone's hair, like, don't touch my hair. Let's read this book. There's a rare old book called Don't Touch My Hair. And historically speaking, I think predominantly white institutions. the lower school, the elementary level, there's a lot of curiosity that comes with. So I definitely know that the courage and the affirmation that I received in this space and actually coming to appointments where I'm like, oh, okay, so everyone, you know, the level of melanin is different. The people that come here, they all have this curly hair journey and you're my sister. You're my people. And you embrace your journey in the same way that I do, in a way that I never did before. Like you open up the space for me to see that I'm not by myself. And as an early childhood professional, I only encourage. individuals to be who they are.
Speaker #1
Beautiful, Nichelle.
Speaker #0
Thank you.
Speaker #1
And to go off, you made some amazing points about it's not just ethnic. I mean, how many white women with curly hair felt felt like they could not go to a non-white salon to get their hair done? How many of them felt uncomfortable walking in the door saying, they're not gonna know how to treat my hair, they're not going to know what to do with my hair, right? And then let's switch that role. How many women of color have gone to a predominantly white salon and said, I don't know what to do with my hair. That wall is there. That ethnic wall is there throughout this entire community and it is so much greater than it seems. The curly industry is one of the most beautiful things because we tried to break down that barrier. We tried to eliminate the divide between I mean white and non-white people and say you know what most people in this universe have curly hair why can't we come together and do it as one I love those points Michelle thank you
Speaker #6
Susan so I want to um say that I had no idea what the topic was tonight and I think that that was definitely not a coincidence I had no idea about any of this hardship And I've always wanted to have curly hair. And the fact of the matter is, while you all were speaking, is like the person I want to date, I want him to have curly hair. And so I want, and I spent, I remember my mom used to buy these curlers, those foam pink curlers and the electric curlers. And you snapped them in. And I used to always love like to put curlers in my hair and have. curly hair and I also got perms as a kid and they never looked as beautiful as your hair. I didn't have trauma over my hair. So what didn't walk around saying, oh, I'm, I'm feeling trauma because my hair is not curly, but I always thought curly haired people were more fun. And I was like, And I'm noticing I had all these biases and stereotypes, and I was just thinking about that. And I remember recently, so now that you're all talking about this, I really started to see more curly hair because I remember one time a woman had a beautiful, very high curly hair do experience, whatever. And I almost didn't tell her how beautiful her hair was because I was afraid to. So. And now I'm wondering why, I wonder why that was. And maybe I was picking up that there was some trauma behind the hair, or I didn't want to insult. Maybe it was the white divide, you know, because this was a black woman. But her hair was really cool. It had different curls and colors, and she was so beautiful, the hair, you know. So, um... I can't wait to come here and get my hair more curly because it's wavy. So maybe we can boost it up and I can like, you know, do whatever. You do it tonight.
Speaker #1
Yes, Christina.
Speaker #4
I would love to actually. So I'm Christina and I've been sitting next to Linda and we just had this conversation about how we think her hair is curly. And I actually started coming to this salon when I was 16 years old. And my hair was straight because I was blow drying it all the time.
Speaker #0
And when
Speaker #4
Wafeya started getting into the curly,
Speaker #0
she,
Speaker #4
we, I think we had the same conversation every time I came here for a year about how my hair was actually curly. And I was like, no, no, no, it's not. And then I would leave after I like asked her to blow dry it. And then I would come back. So. Thank goodness now that's, I think now I've been wearing it only curly for 20 years and I have not blow dried it in at least 10 years. And I, I'm me, I'm me now.
Speaker #1
I love it.
Speaker #0
That's beautiful.
Speaker #1
I love that too. Somewhat wavy and swavy women have just spoken because that's also a huge divide in the curly community. And I have to speak for myself on this one. I'd if you had a wave, I didn't think you were curly before I started working here. I was like, oh, it's wavy hair. You have to do so much to encourage it. It's not curls. Every type, every form, every bend in the hair, that is a curl. And so many women come in who have wavy hair and they'll say, well, everyone tells me it's not curly and I don't know where to go because it doesn't fully work out with like a straight hair technique. But curly hair doesn't seem to like, I don't feel like I fit in. And it's like, trust me, you belong. You are wavy. You are valid in that. And it's an experience that you have your own journey on. That's completely different than mine, but it's real.
Speaker #0
Do you guys want to address some of the surprises, right? I know you and I talked about it in your podcast, and Alex, because you're the latest edition, I'd love to hear from you the ancestral wisdom myths that really shocked you.
Speaker #2
Oh my goodness. So when I had my, I call it my Oasis baptism. My first day of work here, like onboarding and everything, right before I was about to leave, what Faye said, so do you want us to set your curls? And I was like, yes, of course. Like, I'm in the curly Oasis. Yes, I want my curls set. And so everyone came by and is washing my hair, and I left out of here with my curls looking more beautiful than they've ever looked before. And then I get home the next couple of days and I'm like, so when do I oil my scalp? And, you know, like, what do I, how do I maintain this and everything? And they're like, yeah, no oils. So, so much of what we were taught all our lives to grease our scalps, to seal in the moisture with heavy oils and things. Like a lot of it is just that, it's ancestral wisdom. But ancestral wisdom is really based in your ancestors doing the best they could with what they had. And, you know, we had to grow from that place. So when I got here is when a lot of that growth happened because I had been taught to, you know, use the blue magic, the grease with the petrochemicals and the synthetic fragrances and the microplastics. All the things we tell y'all not to do is what I have been doing my whole life. So definitely that really helped make me a believer was my own journey since I got here. learning to like the truth versus like what I had been taught all my life.
Speaker #0
Well, in greasing your scalp, that's such an interesting concept because, you know, we have sebaceous glands that are producing oil. And, you know, if your facial skin is oily, as the Curly Girl book, you know, taught us, so is your scalp. It's just an extension of your face. And so now you're putting these non-water soluble ingredients on it. that's actually hindering the natural ecosystem of your scalp from functioning properly. But again, I mean, it's not that people are evil. It's the, you know, it's just the awareness, right? We're learning more and more. And I love that you mentioned the microplastics and the petrochemicals. And, you know, yes, we do have gentlemen here. I'm going to speak to everyone, but ladies, especially because we're... We're the ones spending more time on lotions and makeup and hair and all the things that we put on our bodies. Do your research. Just take the first five ingredients and look it up through the Environmental Working Group. And there's another app that is called INCI, I-N-C-I, that's out of Europe, because European standards are a little stricter than ours. And see what you're actually putting on your bodies. What is your skin absorbing? We do a lot of research here, and what we're finding the most is that a lot of the ingredients that are used in our beauty care actually disrupt our endocrine system. I mean, that's serious. Hormones are everything. And, you know, just do the research. And we're finding also that in brown and black communities, there are more incidents and risks of cancer that is linked. to disruption of the endocrine system. And again, manufacturers are not evil, but we do vote with our dollar. And so if we can take the time to become aware and educated and start making more demands and supporting companies that are taking these things more seriously, then eventually there will be a tidal wave and everything will change.
Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. It's time for change. And I think that's something that... is heavily focused on in the curl community, in the world in this day and age, realistically. We are moving forward, and that's one thing that we have to do with our hair, is move forward. We cannot continue to be held to these standards.
Speaker #0
Yes, Luby.
Speaker #3
I want to say that Wafaa changed my life. Because as a public speaker, and I always said, I need to look professional. And to look professional meant I had to go get my hair straightened and do the whole thing of getting it rolled, blow-dried, ironed to look good, right? To look right. to fit in what was considered professional. And it was when I was asked to speak. at Microsoft for Martin Luther King Jr. weekend. And I said, what am I doing? Am I going to go? And as one of the speakers said, am I going to be authentically me? Or am I going to be what?
Speaker #0
so-called others think I should be. And that was the beginning. And Wafat knows every time I had something to go to, I didn't go anymore to the Dominican Republican hairdressers, who I loved and spent hours. But I came here, and coming here was coming home. Aww. having hair was coming home.
Speaker #1
It's beautiful.
Speaker #0
You know, I grew up the first time I went to a hairdresser, a white hairdresser, and the first thing I heard as a child was, she has bad hair. And I feel for the girls, and that's why I brought a young woman here that I said I wanted her to know. before she goes to NYU. Katty, I said, I want you to be here. I want you to hear what they've got, because this is something that mattered to me, that I wish I knew at 18. So we pass it forward. Thank you.
Speaker #2
Thank you. Thank you, Ruby.
Speaker #3
And I just want to say, you know, she's giving me credit, but really it is a collective. And there are curl specialists all over the country. It is definitely growing more and more. Not enough, but I do want to make that clear that that is something that is happening in the world.
Speaker #1
Yes, absolutely. And, Ruby, you made numerous amazing points. For one, thank you so much. for sharing and bringing someone into this space. I think that's a lot of times people, you know, get told about these spaces and that's really how we start. But another point that you made was authenticity. And I would love to hear anyone who would love to share their story about how authentic they felt prior to. understanding their curls. I know for myself, there was a point when I was getting relaxers and straightening. And then you asked yourself, how authentic do I feel? Or do I feel like I'm fitting into a mold?
Speaker #4
This is a Shira again. Hello,
Speaker #1
Shira.
Speaker #4
It's just one thing that I want to say about this, which is that. I always felt like there was a part of me that was a fraud because of like I had there's embarrassment and this like hiding and I had to change things and I do have to say that since and I told you my 40s but it's really my mid-40s that I came here and it did help me feel like myself and a true authentic version you know just living and owning my my look yeah absolutely you you
Speaker #5
uh i was born in the united states and i grew up in a predominantly white community and so my curly hair was always something that made me different um and not part of the crowd and I was already not a popular kid for many reasons. So I spent so much time trying to straighten my hair and it would just turn into these like grotesque waves and eventually I I gave up and just cut it super, super short. But that also prevented me from being able to achieve a look that I wanted to achieve. And over the years, I tried to grow up my hair. And I would always hit this like threshold of like two, two or three inches where the frizz would start coming in and I'll try to control it. And it just seemed to use more and more handfuls of product every day, to the point where the hair was just so heavy, it just looked like I was dumped to Greece. to my head. And then I gave up for a long time until the pandemic hit and my hair grew out and I was debating cutting it. And I was like, you know what, let me check out a place that focuses on curly hair. And I just Googled this and this place was only 10 minutes from where I lived, luckily, and came here and it was really transformative. I walked through those doors and being able to grow out my hair and just... get that little extra boost of confidence that I needed really had a big impact in me just being able to express myself in other ways and it's been a this place is kind of like family I some someone asked me just today like do I work here I'm like no but I'm here all this Yeah, so it's really special to be able to find your authentic beauty and to allow it to shine through. And then that allows more deeper versions of yourself to emerge as well.
Speaker #1
I don't know why, but this whole conversation, I'm tearing. A little bit. Group curl therapy, and I'm really here for it. Anyone else? Anyone else? London,
Speaker #3
I'm not going to make you speak because you don't want to, but we do have a young representative here. Wait, but how old are you? Twelve. That's something to celebrate, that a 12-year-old gets to feel empowered in her natural crown. That's definitely something we're very proud of. And it's one of our favorite things to do, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, we love empowering the young generation. As Luby said, pass it forward.
Speaker #3
Absolutely.
Speaker #6
so usually I'm like nervous to talk in front of people I'm not nervous to be behind the chair but I'm nervous but to talk around people and whatnot okay so I grew up not being not being black enough and not being white enough and so I tried everything that I could do to be black I tried to braid my hair, straighten my hair with a hot comb, which was not right for my hair. My mom killed me about that, you know. It was kind of hard because I went to a predominantly black school. And then I started working at a predominantly straight hair salon. And I would always tell them, can I straighten your hair? Can you straighten my hair? Can you straighten my hair? No one wanted to straighten my hair. They were scared to straighten my hair. They thought it was going to take a long time. However, just coming here and being able to be myself, I'm just very grateful that we can come here and we can talk about our journey and our stories. And it's not just one predominantly race. It's everybody because everyone had their chance to deal with their hair, deal with their waves. You curly girl, don't matter. You got a crinkle. It's curly. But just being able to just do that and just talk freely. among each other is just amazing. And we're therapists also. Y'all know that, right? Yeah. Thank you for letting me talk. I usually don't talk. I wasn't going to talk, but thank you.
Speaker #2
Beautiful.
Speaker #1
We thank you guys all for your time today. It is so appreciated to hear everyone's insight. and their voices. We want you to know your voice is always heard, especially in this space. And just to constantly remember that it's a collective. It's a collective effort. It's a collective space. And it takes each individual person, each individual Curly, Wavy, Swavy, whoever you are to embrace and empower not only yourself, but really the future generation. So thank you guys so much.
Speaker #2
Beautiful. Thank you. Thank you everyone.
Speaker #7
The Curl Code was brought to you from the Oasis Curl Salon at Rockville, Maryland, hosted by the one and only Wafeya Abdullah. If you like the show, please leave us a five-star rating, and if you've got some nice things to say, go ahead and leave us a review. But most importantly, please share the show with anyone you think would enjoy it. Learn more about Curly Oasis at www.curlyoasis.com and continue your curl education journey by finding them on Instagram and YouTube. The curl code is a Say Miller Production.

About The Curl Code: how curl care and self care means wellness for all

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About The Curl Code: how curl care and self care means wellness for all

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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