Ariel Lawhon's new novel, The Pirate Queen, is out now, and it brings Grace O'Malley, a sixteenth century Irish noblewoman who became a legendary pirate, mother, and rebel, roaring back to life. It's the same instinct that shaped Ariel's earlier novels Codename Helene and I Was Anastasia: find the real woman that history left out, and let her tell the whole story.

In this conversation, Ariel tells me how she stumbled onto Grace's story at four in the morning, why she structures her novels around the maiden, mother, and matriarch phases of a woman's life, and what it actually takes to write women who get to be complicated at every age. We also get into her writing process. She's a self-described plotter who wrote her first novels in fifteen minute windows while raising four sons, and she keeps a running file of future book ideas, cleverly titled Possible Book Ideas, where stories can sit for over a decade before their moment finally arrives. She gives us a first look at what's next too: a Western she's calling Lonesome Dove, but for women.

The Pirate Queen is available now wherever books are sold.

(00:00:00) Welcome and introduction to Ariel Lawhon
(00:04:38) Growing up off-grid in Taos, New Mexico
(00:09:23) Her first novel and the friend who introduced her to her agent
(00:11:52) The email she sent with only a third of a manuscript
(00:14:08) Finding Judge Crater's story by accident
(00:16:33) Research and source material, and being on her sixth novel
(00:23:34) How every book idea has found her by accident
(00:25:51) The Frozen River and her 13-year-old file of Possible Book Ideas
(00:28:05) Plotter vs. pantser: writing in stolen time while raising four sons
(00:30:21) On inspiration: "the muse has to find you working"
(00:32:41) Why she's drawn to women with verve
(00:35:06) Writing older, more complex women into fiction
(00:37:29) Discovering Grace O'Malley at 4 a.m.
(00:39:49) Balancing Irish folklore against the English historical record
(00:42:02) The letter to Queen Elizabeth I and the meeting itself
(00:44:23) What The Pirate Queen is really about
(00:46:48) Teasing the next book: The Devil's Rope

Thanks so much for listening! If you loved this conversation, please rate, review, and subscribe on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, it really does help other listeners find the show. For more from Leslie, including exclusive essays and behind-the-scenes takes on every episode, subscribe to the Duologue Substack.

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Pick up The Pirate Queen wherever books are sold!

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