- Elizabeth Johnston
Welcome to the Efus podcast, a podcast produced by the European Forum for Urban Security, in collaboration with the ICARUS Project, Innovative Approaches to Urban Security. I'm Elizabeth Johnston, the Executive Director of Efus, the European network of 250 local and regional authorities dedicated to urban security policies. I'm very glad today to be joined by Stanislav Šeiko, Head of Strategic Planning at the Municipal Police of Riga in Latvia, as well as by Roland S. Boitmanis, police officer in Riga. Hello. Welcome to both of you and thank you for taking the time to share the Riga tool for a safe Riga, which aims to adjust policing strategies to better meet community needs by using police records and citizens'feedback. This project really aims to improve local safety and policing practices. How did you come up with this proposal and this approach specifically, Stan?
- Staņislavs Šeiko
It is not the first time when the municipality wants to know What does inhabitants think about difference problems in the city? Previously, we had really big surveys about different topics in the municipality, but for the first time, we wanted to have a targeted approach to the needs of certain neighbourhoods. And to make this approach targeted, we involved certain stakeholders, like the local NGO of inhabitants living in this area, like the municipal coordinators, the link between municipality and between the... people to participate. So we came together and we were, during the testing phase, three stakeholders who went on the streets asking these different questions and surveying people.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Did people say different things, whether they were talking to a police officer or to a social worker?
- Staņislavs Šeiko
So as we had three different stakeholders, we wanted to make this survey different. So the police officers focused on feeling of insecurity because of different types of crimes. municipal coordinators because of different disturbance and local NGO more on relationship and attitude and trust between police and inhabitants. So it allowed us to get different perceptions because of different interviewers.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Were you surprised by some of the things that people shared with you, Roland?
- Rolands Boitmanis
Yes, I was surprised that people were so open about the stuff that happens in the neighborhood with police because don't usually People don't tend to talk too much. So I was actually quite surprised and happy also about it because we didn't have information like that about places we usually don't patrol. So I think it was a good experience for us as police officers.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Roland, do you want to share how you think this has changed your policing approach every day?
- Rolands Boitmanis
Yes. So as a police officer, it... It was, as I said, a good experience. And so I learned a lot about talking to people, about trusting them as well as gaining their trust. It's crucial to work in the field, in the streets, because you have to have this information. And to have it, you need people to inform you. So when you do gain that trust, you can be a better officer, you can do a better job. So that's the valuable thing for me from this. experience.
- Elizabeth Johnston
I like the fact that you underscore how the trust is reciprocal too. They need to trust you and you need to trust citizens as well. So you felt it was time well invested to be spending time speaking with individuals.
- Rolands Boitmanis
I think that the time we invested in serving was great. It was well invested and we really enjoyed it. I think that time was not enough actually. We would love to have some more time for doing this because the information was valuable, experience was valuable, and overall it was a great experience. Sometimes the time was not enough for people who were in a hurry, so we did have to rephrase the questions and try to be quicker, but I hope we could do this again sometime.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Stan, how did you use the data at the strategic level? Do you feel you were able to adjust or to start adjusting district or neighborhood policing strategies according to the feedback from citizens?
- Staņislavs Šeiko
So there are three levels, strategy level, tactical level and operation level. Roland told about operation level, how the officers work on the street. From the perspective of tactics, we found out certain location where is no police data about any incidents. people are afraid to be there, especially at night. So we included this place in patrol mode, but to make it more visible and to feel friendlier. It was not a police car that simply bypassed and disappeared, but it was a bicycle patrol who also communicated with the people. And on the strategic level, I don't want to say that the tool is like a game changer. No, because there are a lot of factors that influence police operations, like amount of calls, personal resources, etc. But from previous studies, we know that people's trust in procedural justice lowers crime rates and, first of all, This tool is about communication and mutual trust between inhabitants and municipal institutions. And on the other hand, it really sheds light on new aspects of public safety and it provides information you couldn't get from the statistics. So this combo influenced how we will change our police strategy for the next year. Also implemented it to the strategy of the whole city.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Can you give us an example of new aspects of security challenges that were brought up through these exchanges?
- Staņislavs Šeiko
Of course. The first aspect is mutual trust between the municipal institution, is it police or city council, and inhabitants. And probably this will be the first step we'll implement in our future strategy, how to make the cooperation better. The second is our wish to hear from the inhabitants. what are the challenges, and also to involve them in enhancing the public safety in the city. Public safety, it's not only the matter of police, it's matter of everybody. And if we can make our inhabitants feel that their voices also matter, then it works also for us as well.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Within your colleagues, within the police force, but also within the municipality, were people supportive of this approach from the get-go? Or were some people reluctant and sort of dubious towards the approach?
- Staņislavs Šeiko
Of course, from the police side, there were some veteran police officers that are really like orthodox and don't trust inhabitants and they don't want to listen for people. There are some amount of inhabitants who also mistrust the police and think, OK, now we will tell you something, but you won't do anything. So to make these people believe in changes, you need not... only to receive this feedback from surveys, but also make some future steps, change something, and to show that you are really interested in using of this approach.
- Elizabeth Johnston
We so often hear people say, you know, we know what the problem is. We have police data. Everyone knows that X, Y, or Z is the problem in our city. How did you convince colleagues to... engage in this new approach to seek out more qualitative data?
- Staņislavs Šeiko
I would say you will spare a lot of time if you try to convince everybody. So we went a different way. We chose police officers who already were open-minded and thought that it's a great idea to go to speak with the people to understand how the people on the streets in the certain district are living. So that's why we have here Roland. who can wonderfully describe his perspectives of this project. We started with the people who are really interested. And then when you show the result to others who can be skeptical or unsure, it's for them to decide.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Roland, would you self-describe as open-minded towards this approach?
- Rolands Boitmanis
The reality is that to be a better police officer, you do need population. You do need people on the streets. You do need to communicate. find out information because without them, you don't have information. And without information, you are not a good police officer.
- Elizabeth Johnston
So it really is also about intelligence gathering, sort of the eyes on the street concept. Did you find out more about how people perceived you as police officers?
- Rolands Boitmanis
Mostly, actually, people did find it very useful. They did like to talk to us. So I think we did have around 100 surveys. And from those... 100 surveys, we had actually two people that didn't want to talk to us for personal reasons. They didn't share them to us. So the rest of the people, they were actually quite happy to talk to us. And I think people do want to see police officers as a good character, but they don't have this ability because we do have people that are not actually willing to do the police work in police. That's the issue. Maybe that's the reason why people don't see it.
- Elizabeth Johnston
It ended up being a good thing for the image as well of the Riga police.
- Rolands Boitmanis
I think yes, because people do see us different, maybe a little bit different, but they do see different. And from my experience, as I work in the field, I also work in the station sometimes. And after we did survey, we did have more calls from this district, which is a good thing, which means that people do have more trust in police. They do want police to come and... solve the problem or find a solution to some problem. And I think it's a good start.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Stan, you know from your experience in the European Forum for Urban Security, we have a lot of municipal police forces that share the same concern and the same desire to engage with citizens to increase the trust in the police. Do you think this approach can be replicated in other cities?
- Staņislavs Šeiko
Of course, this approach can work. But first of all, any... Any municipality in Europe or police force that want to use it need to understand that tool by itself can't ensure long-term improvement in community safety. Because it's only the tool. It's an instrument. But the police can ensure it. The municipality can. The city council can. They have this power and they should have the motivation to make changes. And if they have this motivation, then our... approach, our tool provides an information, elucidates the gaps and eases the way to the safer society. And if the municipality or other police force want to use it, they just need to be ready to use the tool for a long period of time. It's not enough to have one survey and that's all, because then you won't trace the changes and you won't see those changes. It takes time for tool to work and of course be ready to adapt this approach, this tool for your Local needs, because nothing is similar. Neither district, nor city, nor country.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Rolands, would you like to add anything to that?
- Rolands Boitmanis
I think Stan perfectly summed it up. As I understand, the only thing we need to have, and any other city that wants this tool, they need to understand that the key is to have everything between people, police, municipality, and they all need to work together perfectly, and the tool is going to be great.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Were some of your more reluctant reluctant, as you say, veteran colleagues convinced by the approach by the end?
- Rolands Boitmanis
At this point, we haven't had a conversation or we didn't have any information about this survey so far with other colleagues. But I think if we do get great results, these officers also will see that their approach is not as great as it could be.
- Elizabeth Johnston
And as you both really underscored, it also takes time to build trust. between citizens and the police, but also maybe within the police officers towards the approach. So it's not a one-shot, short-term solution.
- Rolands Boitmanis
It should be done multiple times. The data as well, it should be checked constantly, because time goes past and things change and people change, and also police officers. If time changes, police officer changes, and we do need to inform and... teach and learn about how to communicate. And this is a great tool to gain that information and knowledge about communication with people.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Absolutely. I had a very practical question. Do you think this approach is very costly? Does it need sort of investments, technological investments, human resource investments that are very costly for a municipality?
- Staņislavs Šeiko
I would say no, but you need to understand your own resources. Because on our side, from the perspective of statistics, we had all our information we needed for quantitative analysis in electronic event log. And you can make an export to Excel or Power BI and to make an analysis. And to make the surveying on the streets, you just need to use your own resources as municipal coordinators or police officers or NGOs. So I would say no, but of course it depends.
- Elizabeth Johnston
And as you both said earlier in our conversation, it's also a good investment in time because you get a lot of feedback for each interaction with citizens.
- Staņislavs Šeiko
I would like to cite some words of one of the stakeholders, the chairman of local NGO, from his interview to the national media. So he said that he really enjoys the fact that the police are in the project where the public feelings are measured rather than the police just... works because of police prescriptions, historical instructions, or some interest to catch criminals.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Thank you. And I heard you say earlier that the police is there to strive to increase citizens'happiness. And I think that's a wonderful vision of police work at a municipal level. Would you like to share any concluding thoughts with us?
- Rolands Boitmanis
I would like to say that I hope we do continue to work in this direction. I hope that we will have a great result. And if we do get them, I encourage other cities to join. and continue to work to the future where we can have this balance between police and between people.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Thank you very much, Roland. Would you like to share any concluding remarks, Dan?
- Staņislavs Šeiko
I would say that it's not only about happiness of inhabitants. It's also about happiness of police officers, because there is nothing better when your people living in your city trust you as a police officer. So it's about a happy society overall. Thank you.
- Elizabeth Johnston
Thank you so much to both of you for sharing your experience from Riga and your expertise.
- Staņislavs Šeiko
Thank you. Thank you.
- Elizabeth Johnston
The network we've set up within Efus called EU-POLNET with the city of Riga, as well and under the leadership of city of Nice, brings together municipal police forces from all over Europe. And I think it'll be a great forum to continue to inspire municipal police forces from practices like yours. We hope you've enjoyed this episode, which was produced in the framework of the Icarus Project, Innovative Approaches to Urban Security, funded by the European Commission. We look forward to sharing more insights and discussions with you in the future. So don't forget to subscribe to this podcast and visit our website. Stay tuned for the next episode of the Efus podcast.
