"Our brain doesn't always help us, and we have to face facts if we want to make a better society". These are the words of Xavier Verne, Project Director at SNCF and a key contributor to the Shift Project. In conversation with Céline Lescop, he explains the carbon impact of the digital ecosystem that underpins our daily lives, deciphers the work of The Shift Project, and maps out the path towards a more sober digital society. Enjoy listening!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.