Description
Satellite pioneer, creator of SES/Astra, and allegedly Europe's most dangerous woman tells us about a lifetime in the (new) space industry. Candece gives us her view on the space industry today, what to consider as an investor or entrepreneur in space, and tells us how to build a space nation from scratch.
Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.
Transcription
And somebody who didn't realize that I was me and he was him said, oh, Leo, you know, do you know Candace? And he just looks at me and he looks at them and he says, of course I know Candace. She's the most dangerous woman in Europe.
This is Have We Gone to Mars Yet? A podcast about all the things that needs to be sorted before we can put a person on the surface of Mars. We meet the greatest minds within the fields of technology, medicine, astronomy, psychology and physics. We interview entrepreneurs, industrialists, astronauts and scientists.
And why, you ask? Well, the boundaries to what we can physically reach are changing rapidly. And what used to be impossible is suddenly within our grasp. And we know that... The discoveries and development in space are improving our chances to save life on Earth.
And we want to be there for the changes, to take part and be a part of all the steps taken for our future.
And soon enough, we'll be walking around on planet Mars. And we save the world going there.
My name is Marcus Pettersson.
My name is Susanna Levenhout.
And this is Have We Gone to Mars Yet? This mission we're on ain't all about human space travel. Most space-related activities are performed from Earth, and most people who devote their lives to space don't ever go there.
Way back in the 70s, Candace Johnson was working as an executive producer at a radio station in Washington. Pretty soon she realized... that their distribution system would be so much more efficient if they would just use satellites instead of shipping tapes across the continent. It wasn't the easiest task to convince her seniors to implement this, but once up and running, everybody wanted to follow her example. And this was just the beginning of Candace Johnson's satellite journey.
After meeting her husband, the ambassador of Luxembourg, She moved to Europe and took her IDs with her. She spent all her time and money on building a satellite system for her new home country, Luxembourg. A system that came to be known as Société Européenne des Satellites, or SIS Astra.
In 1982, Luxembourg was having three crises. A steel crisis, a broadcasting crisis, and a monetary union crisis with Belgium. And so the Prime Minister, Pierre Werner, was looking for a new pillar, a new economic pillar. And so I told the prime minister... I said, you could have a private satellite system in Luxembourg. That was June 1982. And in February 1983, he called me. He said, Candice, I need to have your satellite system. I said, okay, I will come and I will do this satellite system for you. But the most important thing is that... This was so new, and the prime minister didn't have any money whatsoever. And not only that, he said, Candace, you'll have to do all of this, and you will never be able to receive any financial reward. Now, I had just had, quote, unquote, this exit. So I had money for three years. So I said, no problem. I will just use my money, pay my expenses, and go and do all of these things. So fast forward. Now, the most important thing that I felt we should be doing with the satellite system, which came to be known as SES, Société Européenne des Satellites, the trademark name was Astra, was to provide freedom of choice. So in 1983, freedom of choice in television and radio viewing, and even in telecommunications, really did not exist in Europe. You had monopolies in Germany, in France, in Italy, the Netherlands, Sweden, you know, all over. The only place where you had a duopoly was in the UK, ITV, and you had in Luxembourg, you had a private broadcasting station. which had been given frequencies by the Luxembourg government and a franchise, but it was not a monopoly and it was not government-owned. And so we started in 1983 to put together this satellite system. that would bring freedom of choice to all of Europe's citizens. And everybody was against us except for the citizens. So the governments were against us because they were doing, they were owning the government monopoly television stations, they were doing the government aerospace defense. We tried to work with the aerospace companies in Europe. They actually laughed at me. I'll never forget. I went to MBB in Munich, which is today Airbus, and I said, well, you know, we're doing a satellite system and we would like to see if we can buy a satellite from you. And, you know, the CEO at the time, Dr. Schwartz, he says, Ms. Johnson, we do not sell satellites to private companies and we don't sell them to little countries like Luxembourg. So the one person who did believe in me and believed in SES was Frédéric Dalleste. He was the president of Arianespace. And in 1983, he told me, he said, Miss Johnson, if you bring me a satellite, I will launch it for you. We had to go to the United States. We bought two off-of-the-shelf satellites. And so December 13th, 1988, we launched this. the first satellite, Astro 1A, on Arianespace. So what happened 11 months after we launched the satellite system covering all of Europe? The wall fell down. And we were the only satellite that could cover all of Eastern Europe. And the Eastern Europeans wanted to have Western television. And so we became, within one year, the largest, most profitable satellite system in Europe. Now, what happened was that in 1992, we had the digital revolution. And the people on the board and the people who had put in the first money to SES, Astra, were bankers. Because, first of all, there weren't any venture capitalists in 1984 and 1985 here in Europe. So the only people who would invest in this amazingly risky company were the banks. Well, years later, they... They told me, Candice, we never thought we'd make any money. I said, no, no, you've done something much more. You have become venture capitalists because they were the first ones to invest in technology in Europe. But at this time, the people that we had helped the most, because, of course, we were open to new players, none of the old players, none of the legacy, the BBCs, the ARDs, the... The TF, all of the government owned, they didn't want to come on SES. They did come on Astra when the wall fell down. But at the beginning, we had only had the new players. Now, the new players were Rupert Murdoch, Leo Kirsch, and Silvio Berlusconi. By 1992, they were already... becoming the media moguls. And when that digital revolution happened and it was possible to put 10 channels into one transponder, they, of course, realized that if they could get their hands on Astra, which now was the not only number one satellite television broadcasting company, in Europe. It was the broadcasting distribution company in Europe. So they put a letter together, an offer to the Astra board, and they said, we will take 30% stake in SES, which would have been basically control. We will buy all of the digital transponder capacity on the next four satellites, and we will guarantee you 15, 1.5% IRR. Now, the bankers don't like risk. And so they said, well, this is interesting. I said, no, this is terrible. And I wrote this memo. I tried so hard, but they did not understand. They pre-signed this contract. And what was happening then was that if the Children's Channel wanted to get capacity, they had to go then to Murdoch. and say, can we get capacity on your satellite? And then Murdoch would say, yes, but you have to give me 51% of your shareholding. So I knew that I had to do something. I had tried everything. And even though everybody was against me, the management, they wanted to do this deal. The shareholders wanted to do this deal. I went to the press. I went to the Financial Times, and I told them that a cartel was trying to take over the SES satellite, and that if this happened, we would no longer have open skies, we would have closed skies. The Financial Times printed the article, Berlusconi, Murdoch, and Kirsch. sued the Financial Times for my name. They didn't give it. The management and the shareholders went to the Financial Times and said, we are, we, it is Candace Johnson. We are against her. The European Commission said, you know, I said, look, you know, this, if this happens, this is very bad. They said, you know, we, we. We lodge our efforts, but there's nothing we can do. So for one year, I was absolutely vilified by all of these people who were so incredibly important and powerful. And so finally, one year later, Chancellor Kohl called Mr. Santer. who was the prime minister of Luxembourg at that time. And so Chasseur Cole calls Jack Santer and says, who is this Candace Johnson? And, you know, Jack Santer says, well, why? And he said, because she is not allowing my friend Leo Kirsch and his friends, Rupert Murdoch, and Silvio Berlusconi to take over the Aster satellite. And Mr. Sontra said, well, actually, you do know Candace Johnson, because, of course, I had a different name than my husband. And, of course, he knew the ambassador of Luxembourg to Germany, Adrian Meisch. So you do know Candace Johnson. But more importantly, we stand behind her. And she has always fought for the independence. of Luxembourg and of SES, and we stand behind her. So the next day, the contract that had been pre-signed was undone. The suit against the Financial Times was taken away, and SES went on, remained independent. And I will tell you afterwards, it was actually this that made me say, I never can let this happen again. And that is why I architected SES Global, so that SES would become the world's number one satellite system and never, ever be the object of a hostile takeover again. Two or three months later, I saw Leo Kirsch before he died. And somebody who didn't realize that I was me and he was him said, oh, Leo, you know, do you know Candace? And he just looks at me and he looks at them and he says. Of course I know Candice. She's the most dangerous woman in Europe.
We've heard this amazing story. So how do you work within the space industry today?
So it's important to understand I have done satellite television. I have done satellite telecommunications. I have done satellite internet. because I put Europe Online, of course, onto satellite to do broadband internet already in 1997. And I have done satellite mobile communications. So in 2001, everybody said, Candice, you know, you've done all of this stuff. And we had just completed the SES Global deal. And, you know, they said, you should become a venture capitalist. So I said, OK. So I became a venture capitalist. But to be honest, I don't really enjoy being a venture capitalist, except for two exceptions. The reason is I am an entrepreneur, and I like to be close. If I'm not being the entrepreneur, I like to be close to the entrepreneur. Because quite frankly, certainly in space, I really can bring value. And so, but from about 2001 to 2010, I was a venture capitalist. I was a business angel. So I started the Sophia Business Angels 20 years ago. We're celebrating our anniversary and I will again, I'm again now the president. And then really 10 years ago, I said, okay, you know, that's all very nice. but What's really exciting and what I've always loved is space. And I will now enter a new phase in my life. Rather than providing universal access via space, and that I definitely did with television, telecommunications, internet and mobile, I will now use space to access the universe. So I've invested in a lot of space companies. I mentor every Saturday morning. I have three hours, one hour each of mentoring space entrepreneurs. I invest in satellite companies. In 2014, I became the president of EBON, the European Business Angels Network. In 2016, I was asked by Northstar, a Canadian company. who's basically doing space situational awareness, space domain awareness, and space traffic management. And also, around that time, I was also asked to join Seraphim, the world's largest space tech fund. I was the president of IBAN, and I did not feel that I could join anybody, because quite frankly, everybody was asking me if I would join them. And I said, please wait until I have finished in 2018. And I will then speak with all of these funds and I will see which one I will go to. And so I did speak with all of the funds and I chose then to go with Seraphim.
Why did you choose Seraphim?
First of all, the team is great. The Seraphim team, they've worked together for 15 years and they bring a financially oriented, market oriented, you know, view to everything. everything that they do. And when you are taking other people's money to invest it, this is a huge responsibility. And therefore, you must make certain that you do give them a return on investment. Plus, I have to also say, because we have people like Matt O'Connell, who is, he was OneWeb, he did Digital Globe. G.O.I. We have Anne Winblatt, so the software venture capitalist in the world. And then because of all of the various space ventures that I have done, we have a lot of deal flow. We get the best deals from the world to across our desks. And so we are in a very nice position to choose. Also, we have done this Space Camp Accelerator. So Sarah from Space Camp. I'm also very proud. I think we have 60 companies now who've gone through six cohorts, seven cohorts. We have invested in about five of them already, which is a very, very good thing.
What do you look for when you invest?
So when I invest personally, but also when I am, you know, helping doing my work at Seraphim, I like big projects. I like to make certain that it is market oriented. I do not like industrial policy. policy. I like the... entrepreneurs to have a vision. I like them to be obsessed and paranoiac. No, really. I mean, you have to be. You have to have a mission. You have to say, I am going to change the world for the better, and this is how I am going to do it. The challenges that we are using space for today are different. than when I was getting started. When I was getting started, the biggest challenge really was using space to bring universal access. Universal access was a very, very important problem for the world. Today, our problems are different. We have the climate change. We have the environment. We have the oceans. We have the combination of AI, big data, natural intelligence, we have the metaverse. And all of these problems can also be solved by using space. And so that is where we come to this using space to access the universe. So, and today also at Seraphim, we are, I mean, so we're focusing on quantum. We're focusing on sustainability, so everything with green, be it green propulsion, be it green electric satellites, be it going into the Earth, into the universe or near space, taking out the debris. The exploration company, you know, the same thing. We're using the... infrastructure. We'll be using that to try out experiments. So with pharmaceuticals, with agritech, with all of this. So this is very, very exciting. And we're basically calling it space in space. Forget the boundaries of Earth and space. Earth is a part of space. So what We are now exploring, be it near space, be it deep space, the fact that we are now being able to look at the black hole. I mean, this is a phenomenal leap in dimensions. And we, in our minds, have to... expand our minds to make this connection meaningful so that everything we are doing with the exploration in near space and deep space and on the earth is coming together. And the only way that we can do that is, of course, by making certain that they are all connected. So things like the IoT, Internet of Things, You know, being able to put sensors on everything, including in space and cameras, which are basically sensors, you know, telescopes, and being able to use space not only for the exploration, but for the connectivity, it is all coming together. And one of the reasons also why I went to work with as vice chair of North Star. for this space situational awareness, space domain awareness, is because we now need to see the whole arena of space. Also, quite frankly, not only for the debris, but for the hostile menaces that we are experiencing. Unfortunately, at the moment, what is happening is we're having war on Earth and we're having war in space. So we are definitely having star wars. And the ability North Star... Since we can track any object, we can identify it and we can track it. So we can tell, yes, a satellite system, you better move because there's a piece of debris hurtling at you. And if it happens, you know,
to hit you,
you're out. But we can also tell that satellite operator there is a object that has moved from its current orbital position and is coming over to spoof you, to jam you, to, you know... To case you out.
In this new space dimension where it's huge and no boundaries, etc. Yeah. Where is it most important to place your investment? In what kind of space tech should we invest?
If you are a first-time investor, I would invest in a fund like Seraphim. There's also, let me see, there's also Orbital Ventures. There are some national space funds. So I would definitely invest in a fund. You know, we have, I mean, I personally get 100 space projects a month over my desk. So very quickly, I know what's good and what isn't good. I'm suggesting to everyone. launchers. We need to have launchers. One thing I'm also very involved in is actually working with reinsurance companies. So the fact that Northstar has all of this data, which the reinsurance companies do not have. If you're being asked to insure something in space and you don't have it, whoa, you know, that's a problem. So, you know, we're putting... our data into the Swiss risk engine so that they will be able to insure space again because they got out of it. Everything having to do with sustainability, the big data and the AI combined with satellite, so everything that will bring things out to the edge, whether it's a network. in Earth, a network in space, a network in deep space is going to be very big. Those are kind of some of the things. Oh, and also obviously in space, in space servicing. So the fact that we could take a satellite that is maybe, everything is working and the energy is still there and we can hook on new sensors. which will give them a second life and a second business. This is huge. I am not a fan of space tourism. I understand that it gets everybody excited. You know, putting people's lives at risk, because believe me, space is still risky, is something that I personally cannot stomach. And, you know, People have always said, oh, come on, Candice, you know, you do everything risky. And I go, well, first of all, when I'm working in space, I try to make certain and have eliminated all of the risk that I can. Because when you are out in space, then there are things that you definitely have not foreseen.
How do we get not just... private personal money, but bigger funding money. Because in Sweden, we talked to all the banks, we called them around and asked, how are you investing in space? And all of them said, we're not. And we talked to the pension funds. How are you investing in space? We're not. And that's, I think, is a problem in Sweden, most definitely, and maybe also in Europe. So how should we get this bigger fund to invest in space?
So, um... What we are seeing, and it does have to do with this space in space and this access to the universe, is that with the digital transformation, the world is dependent on space. It really is. And so whether it's agriculture, whether it's energy, whether it's tourism on Earth, whether it's logistics. The world is dependent on space. And so if you do not have, just imagine if the GPS satellite system was taken out. Autonomous driving, the whole restaurants, schools, the whole geospatial sector of the world. The ships, the cars, the trains, the agriculture, all of this. would just be gone. The banking system would be gone if we take out the GPS. And what is happening is that it is new private companies who are coming and who are extending GPS. The weather, you know, the extreme weather that is occurring because of the climate change can be measured and predicted by space, by satellites. So the insurance, even just being able to identify a stolen car, can be identified by space. But the space can also identify the forest fires, the tsunamis, the buildings, huge buildings, that will... Fall, the bridges, the infrastructure. So today, an investment in space is basically an investment in the essential part of our economy and of our society and of our life on the earth. It is truly that important.
How come bigger funds and banks in Europe don't realize that?
I think that, unfortunately, in Europe, so much of the emphasis of investing in space has been for technology-driven companies who, I mean, we all can be technology-driven, but they were not market-driven. They were not profit-driven. And so the onus is really now on the entrepreneurs. And to say, you know, when we started SCS. If we hadn't been able to show a business plan which makes money, you can damn well better believe we weren't going to get any money. And, you know, and so entrepreneurs have to be much more rigorous. They have to be taught that they have to be profitable because this is what is really sustainable. This is what we do at the Seraphim Space Camp. This is what we do at the ASA BICS. This is what we do at IBAN Space. And then we have to tell the investors, you have to absolutely oblige the entrepreneur to tell you how they are going to make money.
As you know, we're a Swedish podcast. So how well do you know Sweden and what can we do in space?
First of all, Sweden has a wonderful long heritage. of being in space, the Swedish Space Corporation, you know, so many great companies and innovation, innovation in space. And I've been fortunate to have worked with many of them. However, a fun story is that when we got started with Astra, we had one gentleman that I had brought, who was Count de Kergoly, Count Roland de Kergoly. He was a former French diplomat. And this is 1983. He believed in having a whole Europe. So not half of Europe, but a whole Europe. He believed in freedom of choice. And so he became our first investor with one million euros, or dollars at the time. Our second private investor was a gentleman called Jan Stenbeck. And Jan... was considered to be crazy at the time because he had forests and Shinovic was, you know, a forest company and he had this quote-unquote crazy idea to go into space. And so indeed, he became our second investor and a wonderful, wonderful investor to have because he was never, ever. burden by all of these boundaries and things like this. So 1985, 1986, I'm invited to go to Sweden to give a speech on Astra and SES. And so, you know, I told everybody. I said, you know, I'm always asked about the Swedes and the Americans, because I was American and, of course, Jan Stedbeck was Swedish. And, you know, we were called cowboys and Vikings. And this was a derogative, you know, identification. And so, you know, I... I always used to tell everybody, well, you know, cowboys and Vikings made America great, so why not Astra?
What are your visions for the future?
Well, you know, I kind of gave that vision of space and space and the new space dimensions and the new space domain. It is a huge responsibility to know that in... order to be able to truly put all of the resources that space gives to us for humanity, that we must make certain and take care of it and not do to space what we did with the oceans. So this is huge. The second thing, and, you know, I do see this world and this universe and this new world where everything is connected, deep space, near space, earth, oceans, very important oceans. We will need to put into place new regulation and new laws that will be, of course, based on ethics. I've just written for IBAN Space, I've written a lot of The manifesto for a clean, safe, equitable and peaceful space for all. And I'm concerned, and the reason I wrote this is because we are experiencing a little bit of colonization by the larger space-faring nations. And if we are not careful, we will not be able to help the emerging space-faring nations. take advantage of space as a resource for their own needs. So, and in my life, you know, I've always kind of gone between doing, somebody once called me a policy entrepreneur. And it's true that I did start the Association of Private Telecom Operators in 1992. And I actually took the Deutsche Telekom to court and won for having done illegal subsidies to the tune of two billion day marks at the time. And whenever you have something new and that is growing and new frontiers, you must make certain that you enter into what I call a social contract, where governments set policies and entrepreneurs do. So I'm thinking that I need to get a little bit more involved in this going forward. to make certain that it is really this great place for investment, for entrepreneurship, for innovation and for inspiration.
And for how long will you keep on working with space?
You know, I'm 69, so I think I've got at least another good 20 years.
Sounds good.
Space needs a Candice Johnson.
Space does need a Candice Johnson. And we need to talk more about space.
Satellites really were a game changer. And nowadays it's hard to imagine life without GPS, weather reports and super fast communication. But what is it like to actually be out there?
Explorer and entrepreneur and private astronaut Richard Garrett knows. He spent two weeks at the ISS and in the next episode he will tell us all about it.
Don't forget to subscribe to this feed. We really hope you want to join us on this ride, all the way to Mars and beyond.
My name is Marcus Pettersson.
My name is Susanna Levenhaupt.
The music we play is composed by Armin Pendek.
Have We Gone to Mars Yet? is produced at Beppo by Rundfunk Media in collaboration with Rymd Kapital. Read more about them and how you can get yourself involved at Have We Gone to Mars Yet?
Description
Satellite pioneer, creator of SES/Astra, and allegedly Europe's most dangerous woman tells us about a lifetime in the (new) space industry. Candece gives us her view on the space industry today, what to consider as an investor or entrepreneur in space, and tells us how to build a space nation from scratch.
Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.
Transcription
And somebody who didn't realize that I was me and he was him said, oh, Leo, you know, do you know Candace? And he just looks at me and he looks at them and he says, of course I know Candace. She's the most dangerous woman in Europe.
This is Have We Gone to Mars Yet? A podcast about all the things that needs to be sorted before we can put a person on the surface of Mars. We meet the greatest minds within the fields of technology, medicine, astronomy, psychology and physics. We interview entrepreneurs, industrialists, astronauts and scientists.
And why, you ask? Well, the boundaries to what we can physically reach are changing rapidly. And what used to be impossible is suddenly within our grasp. And we know that... The discoveries and development in space are improving our chances to save life on Earth.
And we want to be there for the changes, to take part and be a part of all the steps taken for our future.
And soon enough, we'll be walking around on planet Mars. And we save the world going there.
My name is Marcus Pettersson.
My name is Susanna Levenhout.
And this is Have We Gone to Mars Yet? This mission we're on ain't all about human space travel. Most space-related activities are performed from Earth, and most people who devote their lives to space don't ever go there.
Way back in the 70s, Candace Johnson was working as an executive producer at a radio station in Washington. Pretty soon she realized... that their distribution system would be so much more efficient if they would just use satellites instead of shipping tapes across the continent. It wasn't the easiest task to convince her seniors to implement this, but once up and running, everybody wanted to follow her example. And this was just the beginning of Candace Johnson's satellite journey.
After meeting her husband, the ambassador of Luxembourg, She moved to Europe and took her IDs with her. She spent all her time and money on building a satellite system for her new home country, Luxembourg. A system that came to be known as Société Européenne des Satellites, or SIS Astra.
In 1982, Luxembourg was having three crises. A steel crisis, a broadcasting crisis, and a monetary union crisis with Belgium. And so the Prime Minister, Pierre Werner, was looking for a new pillar, a new economic pillar. And so I told the prime minister... I said, you could have a private satellite system in Luxembourg. That was June 1982. And in February 1983, he called me. He said, Candice, I need to have your satellite system. I said, okay, I will come and I will do this satellite system for you. But the most important thing is that... This was so new, and the prime minister didn't have any money whatsoever. And not only that, he said, Candace, you'll have to do all of this, and you will never be able to receive any financial reward. Now, I had just had, quote, unquote, this exit. So I had money for three years. So I said, no problem. I will just use my money, pay my expenses, and go and do all of these things. So fast forward. Now, the most important thing that I felt we should be doing with the satellite system, which came to be known as SES, Société Européenne des Satellites, the trademark name was Astra, was to provide freedom of choice. So in 1983, freedom of choice in television and radio viewing, and even in telecommunications, really did not exist in Europe. You had monopolies in Germany, in France, in Italy, the Netherlands, Sweden, you know, all over. The only place where you had a duopoly was in the UK, ITV, and you had in Luxembourg, you had a private broadcasting station. which had been given frequencies by the Luxembourg government and a franchise, but it was not a monopoly and it was not government-owned. And so we started in 1983 to put together this satellite system. that would bring freedom of choice to all of Europe's citizens. And everybody was against us except for the citizens. So the governments were against us because they were doing, they were owning the government monopoly television stations, they were doing the government aerospace defense. We tried to work with the aerospace companies in Europe. They actually laughed at me. I'll never forget. I went to MBB in Munich, which is today Airbus, and I said, well, you know, we're doing a satellite system and we would like to see if we can buy a satellite from you. And, you know, the CEO at the time, Dr. Schwartz, he says, Ms. Johnson, we do not sell satellites to private companies and we don't sell them to little countries like Luxembourg. So the one person who did believe in me and believed in SES was Frédéric Dalleste. He was the president of Arianespace. And in 1983, he told me, he said, Miss Johnson, if you bring me a satellite, I will launch it for you. We had to go to the United States. We bought two off-of-the-shelf satellites. And so December 13th, 1988, we launched this. the first satellite, Astro 1A, on Arianespace. So what happened 11 months after we launched the satellite system covering all of Europe? The wall fell down. And we were the only satellite that could cover all of Eastern Europe. And the Eastern Europeans wanted to have Western television. And so we became, within one year, the largest, most profitable satellite system in Europe. Now, what happened was that in 1992, we had the digital revolution. And the people on the board and the people who had put in the first money to SES, Astra, were bankers. Because, first of all, there weren't any venture capitalists in 1984 and 1985 here in Europe. So the only people who would invest in this amazingly risky company were the banks. Well, years later, they... They told me, Candice, we never thought we'd make any money. I said, no, no, you've done something much more. You have become venture capitalists because they were the first ones to invest in technology in Europe. But at this time, the people that we had helped the most, because, of course, we were open to new players, none of the old players, none of the legacy, the BBCs, the ARDs, the... The TF, all of the government owned, they didn't want to come on SES. They did come on Astra when the wall fell down. But at the beginning, we had only had the new players. Now, the new players were Rupert Murdoch, Leo Kirsch, and Silvio Berlusconi. By 1992, they were already... becoming the media moguls. And when that digital revolution happened and it was possible to put 10 channels into one transponder, they, of course, realized that if they could get their hands on Astra, which now was the not only number one satellite television broadcasting company, in Europe. It was the broadcasting distribution company in Europe. So they put a letter together, an offer to the Astra board, and they said, we will take 30% stake in SES, which would have been basically control. We will buy all of the digital transponder capacity on the next four satellites, and we will guarantee you 15, 1.5% IRR. Now, the bankers don't like risk. And so they said, well, this is interesting. I said, no, this is terrible. And I wrote this memo. I tried so hard, but they did not understand. They pre-signed this contract. And what was happening then was that if the Children's Channel wanted to get capacity, they had to go then to Murdoch. and say, can we get capacity on your satellite? And then Murdoch would say, yes, but you have to give me 51% of your shareholding. So I knew that I had to do something. I had tried everything. And even though everybody was against me, the management, they wanted to do this deal. The shareholders wanted to do this deal. I went to the press. I went to the Financial Times, and I told them that a cartel was trying to take over the SES satellite, and that if this happened, we would no longer have open skies, we would have closed skies. The Financial Times printed the article, Berlusconi, Murdoch, and Kirsch. sued the Financial Times for my name. They didn't give it. The management and the shareholders went to the Financial Times and said, we are, we, it is Candace Johnson. We are against her. The European Commission said, you know, I said, look, you know, this, if this happens, this is very bad. They said, you know, we, we. We lodge our efforts, but there's nothing we can do. So for one year, I was absolutely vilified by all of these people who were so incredibly important and powerful. And so finally, one year later, Chancellor Kohl called Mr. Santer. who was the prime minister of Luxembourg at that time. And so Chasseur Cole calls Jack Santer and says, who is this Candace Johnson? And, you know, Jack Santer says, well, why? And he said, because she is not allowing my friend Leo Kirsch and his friends, Rupert Murdoch, and Silvio Berlusconi to take over the Aster satellite. And Mr. Sontra said, well, actually, you do know Candace Johnson, because, of course, I had a different name than my husband. And, of course, he knew the ambassador of Luxembourg to Germany, Adrian Meisch. So you do know Candace Johnson. But more importantly, we stand behind her. And she has always fought for the independence. of Luxembourg and of SES, and we stand behind her. So the next day, the contract that had been pre-signed was undone. The suit against the Financial Times was taken away, and SES went on, remained independent. And I will tell you afterwards, it was actually this that made me say, I never can let this happen again. And that is why I architected SES Global, so that SES would become the world's number one satellite system and never, ever be the object of a hostile takeover again. Two or three months later, I saw Leo Kirsch before he died. And somebody who didn't realize that I was me and he was him said, oh, Leo, you know, do you know Candace? And he just looks at me and he looks at them and he says. Of course I know Candice. She's the most dangerous woman in Europe.
We've heard this amazing story. So how do you work within the space industry today?
So it's important to understand I have done satellite television. I have done satellite telecommunications. I have done satellite internet. because I put Europe Online, of course, onto satellite to do broadband internet already in 1997. And I have done satellite mobile communications. So in 2001, everybody said, Candice, you know, you've done all of this stuff. And we had just completed the SES Global deal. And, you know, they said, you should become a venture capitalist. So I said, OK. So I became a venture capitalist. But to be honest, I don't really enjoy being a venture capitalist, except for two exceptions. The reason is I am an entrepreneur, and I like to be close. If I'm not being the entrepreneur, I like to be close to the entrepreneur. Because quite frankly, certainly in space, I really can bring value. And so, but from about 2001 to 2010, I was a venture capitalist. I was a business angel. So I started the Sophia Business Angels 20 years ago. We're celebrating our anniversary and I will again, I'm again now the president. And then really 10 years ago, I said, okay, you know, that's all very nice. but What's really exciting and what I've always loved is space. And I will now enter a new phase in my life. Rather than providing universal access via space, and that I definitely did with television, telecommunications, internet and mobile, I will now use space to access the universe. So I've invested in a lot of space companies. I mentor every Saturday morning. I have three hours, one hour each of mentoring space entrepreneurs. I invest in satellite companies. In 2014, I became the president of EBON, the European Business Angels Network. In 2016, I was asked by Northstar, a Canadian company. who's basically doing space situational awareness, space domain awareness, and space traffic management. And also, around that time, I was also asked to join Seraphim, the world's largest space tech fund. I was the president of IBAN, and I did not feel that I could join anybody, because quite frankly, everybody was asking me if I would join them. And I said, please wait until I have finished in 2018. And I will then speak with all of these funds and I will see which one I will go to. And so I did speak with all of the funds and I chose then to go with Seraphim.
Why did you choose Seraphim?
First of all, the team is great. The Seraphim team, they've worked together for 15 years and they bring a financially oriented, market oriented, you know, view to everything. everything that they do. And when you are taking other people's money to invest it, this is a huge responsibility. And therefore, you must make certain that you do give them a return on investment. Plus, I have to also say, because we have people like Matt O'Connell, who is, he was OneWeb, he did Digital Globe. G.O.I. We have Anne Winblatt, so the software venture capitalist in the world. And then because of all of the various space ventures that I have done, we have a lot of deal flow. We get the best deals from the world to across our desks. And so we are in a very nice position to choose. Also, we have done this Space Camp Accelerator. So Sarah from Space Camp. I'm also very proud. I think we have 60 companies now who've gone through six cohorts, seven cohorts. We have invested in about five of them already, which is a very, very good thing.
What do you look for when you invest?
So when I invest personally, but also when I am, you know, helping doing my work at Seraphim, I like big projects. I like to make certain that it is market oriented. I do not like industrial policy. policy. I like the... entrepreneurs to have a vision. I like them to be obsessed and paranoiac. No, really. I mean, you have to be. You have to have a mission. You have to say, I am going to change the world for the better, and this is how I am going to do it. The challenges that we are using space for today are different. than when I was getting started. When I was getting started, the biggest challenge really was using space to bring universal access. Universal access was a very, very important problem for the world. Today, our problems are different. We have the climate change. We have the environment. We have the oceans. We have the combination of AI, big data, natural intelligence, we have the metaverse. And all of these problems can also be solved by using space. And so that is where we come to this using space to access the universe. So, and today also at Seraphim, we are, I mean, so we're focusing on quantum. We're focusing on sustainability, so everything with green, be it green propulsion, be it green electric satellites, be it going into the Earth, into the universe or near space, taking out the debris. The exploration company, you know, the same thing. We're using the... infrastructure. We'll be using that to try out experiments. So with pharmaceuticals, with agritech, with all of this. So this is very, very exciting. And we're basically calling it space in space. Forget the boundaries of Earth and space. Earth is a part of space. So what We are now exploring, be it near space, be it deep space, the fact that we are now being able to look at the black hole. I mean, this is a phenomenal leap in dimensions. And we, in our minds, have to... expand our minds to make this connection meaningful so that everything we are doing with the exploration in near space and deep space and on the earth is coming together. And the only way that we can do that is, of course, by making certain that they are all connected. So things like the IoT, Internet of Things, You know, being able to put sensors on everything, including in space and cameras, which are basically sensors, you know, telescopes, and being able to use space not only for the exploration, but for the connectivity, it is all coming together. And one of the reasons also why I went to work with as vice chair of North Star. for this space situational awareness, space domain awareness, is because we now need to see the whole arena of space. Also, quite frankly, not only for the debris, but for the hostile menaces that we are experiencing. Unfortunately, at the moment, what is happening is we're having war on Earth and we're having war in space. So we are definitely having star wars. And the ability North Star... Since we can track any object, we can identify it and we can track it. So we can tell, yes, a satellite system, you better move because there's a piece of debris hurtling at you. And if it happens, you know,
to hit you,
you're out. But we can also tell that satellite operator there is a object that has moved from its current orbital position and is coming over to spoof you, to jam you, to, you know... To case you out.
In this new space dimension where it's huge and no boundaries, etc. Yeah. Where is it most important to place your investment? In what kind of space tech should we invest?
If you are a first-time investor, I would invest in a fund like Seraphim. There's also, let me see, there's also Orbital Ventures. There are some national space funds. So I would definitely invest in a fund. You know, we have, I mean, I personally get 100 space projects a month over my desk. So very quickly, I know what's good and what isn't good. I'm suggesting to everyone. launchers. We need to have launchers. One thing I'm also very involved in is actually working with reinsurance companies. So the fact that Northstar has all of this data, which the reinsurance companies do not have. If you're being asked to insure something in space and you don't have it, whoa, you know, that's a problem. So, you know, we're putting... our data into the Swiss risk engine so that they will be able to insure space again because they got out of it. Everything having to do with sustainability, the big data and the AI combined with satellite, so everything that will bring things out to the edge, whether it's a network. in Earth, a network in space, a network in deep space is going to be very big. Those are kind of some of the things. Oh, and also obviously in space, in space servicing. So the fact that we could take a satellite that is maybe, everything is working and the energy is still there and we can hook on new sensors. which will give them a second life and a second business. This is huge. I am not a fan of space tourism. I understand that it gets everybody excited. You know, putting people's lives at risk, because believe me, space is still risky, is something that I personally cannot stomach. And, you know, People have always said, oh, come on, Candice, you know, you do everything risky. And I go, well, first of all, when I'm working in space, I try to make certain and have eliminated all of the risk that I can. Because when you are out in space, then there are things that you definitely have not foreseen.
How do we get not just... private personal money, but bigger funding money. Because in Sweden, we talked to all the banks, we called them around and asked, how are you investing in space? And all of them said, we're not. And we talked to the pension funds. How are you investing in space? We're not. And that's, I think, is a problem in Sweden, most definitely, and maybe also in Europe. So how should we get this bigger fund to invest in space?
So, um... What we are seeing, and it does have to do with this space in space and this access to the universe, is that with the digital transformation, the world is dependent on space. It really is. And so whether it's agriculture, whether it's energy, whether it's tourism on Earth, whether it's logistics. The world is dependent on space. And so if you do not have, just imagine if the GPS satellite system was taken out. Autonomous driving, the whole restaurants, schools, the whole geospatial sector of the world. The ships, the cars, the trains, the agriculture, all of this. would just be gone. The banking system would be gone if we take out the GPS. And what is happening is that it is new private companies who are coming and who are extending GPS. The weather, you know, the extreme weather that is occurring because of the climate change can be measured and predicted by space, by satellites. So the insurance, even just being able to identify a stolen car, can be identified by space. But the space can also identify the forest fires, the tsunamis, the buildings, huge buildings, that will... Fall, the bridges, the infrastructure. So today, an investment in space is basically an investment in the essential part of our economy and of our society and of our life on the earth. It is truly that important.
How come bigger funds and banks in Europe don't realize that?
I think that, unfortunately, in Europe, so much of the emphasis of investing in space has been for technology-driven companies who, I mean, we all can be technology-driven, but they were not market-driven. They were not profit-driven. And so the onus is really now on the entrepreneurs. And to say, you know, when we started SCS. If we hadn't been able to show a business plan which makes money, you can damn well better believe we weren't going to get any money. And, you know, and so entrepreneurs have to be much more rigorous. They have to be taught that they have to be profitable because this is what is really sustainable. This is what we do at the Seraphim Space Camp. This is what we do at the ASA BICS. This is what we do at IBAN Space. And then we have to tell the investors, you have to absolutely oblige the entrepreneur to tell you how they are going to make money.
As you know, we're a Swedish podcast. So how well do you know Sweden and what can we do in space?
First of all, Sweden has a wonderful long heritage. of being in space, the Swedish Space Corporation, you know, so many great companies and innovation, innovation in space. And I've been fortunate to have worked with many of them. However, a fun story is that when we got started with Astra, we had one gentleman that I had brought, who was Count de Kergoly, Count Roland de Kergoly. He was a former French diplomat. And this is 1983. He believed in having a whole Europe. So not half of Europe, but a whole Europe. He believed in freedom of choice. And so he became our first investor with one million euros, or dollars at the time. Our second private investor was a gentleman called Jan Stenbeck. And Jan... was considered to be crazy at the time because he had forests and Shinovic was, you know, a forest company and he had this quote-unquote crazy idea to go into space. And so indeed, he became our second investor and a wonderful, wonderful investor to have because he was never, ever. burden by all of these boundaries and things like this. So 1985, 1986, I'm invited to go to Sweden to give a speech on Astra and SES. And so, you know, I told everybody. I said, you know, I'm always asked about the Swedes and the Americans, because I was American and, of course, Jan Stedbeck was Swedish. And, you know, we were called cowboys and Vikings. And this was a derogative, you know, identification. And so, you know, I... I always used to tell everybody, well, you know, cowboys and Vikings made America great, so why not Astra?
What are your visions for the future?
Well, you know, I kind of gave that vision of space and space and the new space dimensions and the new space domain. It is a huge responsibility to know that in... order to be able to truly put all of the resources that space gives to us for humanity, that we must make certain and take care of it and not do to space what we did with the oceans. So this is huge. The second thing, and, you know, I do see this world and this universe and this new world where everything is connected, deep space, near space, earth, oceans, very important oceans. We will need to put into place new regulation and new laws that will be, of course, based on ethics. I've just written for IBAN Space, I've written a lot of The manifesto for a clean, safe, equitable and peaceful space for all. And I'm concerned, and the reason I wrote this is because we are experiencing a little bit of colonization by the larger space-faring nations. And if we are not careful, we will not be able to help the emerging space-faring nations. take advantage of space as a resource for their own needs. So, and in my life, you know, I've always kind of gone between doing, somebody once called me a policy entrepreneur. And it's true that I did start the Association of Private Telecom Operators in 1992. And I actually took the Deutsche Telekom to court and won for having done illegal subsidies to the tune of two billion day marks at the time. And whenever you have something new and that is growing and new frontiers, you must make certain that you enter into what I call a social contract, where governments set policies and entrepreneurs do. So I'm thinking that I need to get a little bit more involved in this going forward. to make certain that it is really this great place for investment, for entrepreneurship, for innovation and for inspiration.
And for how long will you keep on working with space?
You know, I'm 69, so I think I've got at least another good 20 years.
Sounds good.
Space needs a Candice Johnson.
Space does need a Candice Johnson. And we need to talk more about space.
Satellites really were a game changer. And nowadays it's hard to imagine life without GPS, weather reports and super fast communication. But what is it like to actually be out there?
Explorer and entrepreneur and private astronaut Richard Garrett knows. He spent two weeks at the ISS and in the next episode he will tell us all about it.
Don't forget to subscribe to this feed. We really hope you want to join us on this ride, all the way to Mars and beyond.
My name is Marcus Pettersson.
My name is Susanna Levenhaupt.
The music we play is composed by Armin Pendek.
Have We Gone to Mars Yet? is produced at Beppo by Rundfunk Media in collaboration with Rymd Kapital. Read more about them and how you can get yourself involved at Have We Gone to Mars Yet?
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Satellite pioneer, creator of SES/Astra, and allegedly Europe's most dangerous woman tells us about a lifetime in the (new) space industry. Candece gives us her view on the space industry today, what to consider as an investor or entrepreneur in space, and tells us how to build a space nation from scratch.
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Transcription
And somebody who didn't realize that I was me and he was him said, oh, Leo, you know, do you know Candace? And he just looks at me and he looks at them and he says, of course I know Candace. She's the most dangerous woman in Europe.
This is Have We Gone to Mars Yet? A podcast about all the things that needs to be sorted before we can put a person on the surface of Mars. We meet the greatest minds within the fields of technology, medicine, astronomy, psychology and physics. We interview entrepreneurs, industrialists, astronauts and scientists.
And why, you ask? Well, the boundaries to what we can physically reach are changing rapidly. And what used to be impossible is suddenly within our grasp. And we know that... The discoveries and development in space are improving our chances to save life on Earth.
And we want to be there for the changes, to take part and be a part of all the steps taken for our future.
And soon enough, we'll be walking around on planet Mars. And we save the world going there.
My name is Marcus Pettersson.
My name is Susanna Levenhout.
And this is Have We Gone to Mars Yet? This mission we're on ain't all about human space travel. Most space-related activities are performed from Earth, and most people who devote their lives to space don't ever go there.
Way back in the 70s, Candace Johnson was working as an executive producer at a radio station in Washington. Pretty soon she realized... that their distribution system would be so much more efficient if they would just use satellites instead of shipping tapes across the continent. It wasn't the easiest task to convince her seniors to implement this, but once up and running, everybody wanted to follow her example. And this was just the beginning of Candace Johnson's satellite journey.
After meeting her husband, the ambassador of Luxembourg, She moved to Europe and took her IDs with her. She spent all her time and money on building a satellite system for her new home country, Luxembourg. A system that came to be known as Société Européenne des Satellites, or SIS Astra.
In 1982, Luxembourg was having three crises. A steel crisis, a broadcasting crisis, and a monetary union crisis with Belgium. And so the Prime Minister, Pierre Werner, was looking for a new pillar, a new economic pillar. And so I told the prime minister... I said, you could have a private satellite system in Luxembourg. That was June 1982. And in February 1983, he called me. He said, Candice, I need to have your satellite system. I said, okay, I will come and I will do this satellite system for you. But the most important thing is that... This was so new, and the prime minister didn't have any money whatsoever. And not only that, he said, Candace, you'll have to do all of this, and you will never be able to receive any financial reward. Now, I had just had, quote, unquote, this exit. So I had money for three years. So I said, no problem. I will just use my money, pay my expenses, and go and do all of these things. So fast forward. Now, the most important thing that I felt we should be doing with the satellite system, which came to be known as SES, Société Européenne des Satellites, the trademark name was Astra, was to provide freedom of choice. So in 1983, freedom of choice in television and radio viewing, and even in telecommunications, really did not exist in Europe. You had monopolies in Germany, in France, in Italy, the Netherlands, Sweden, you know, all over. The only place where you had a duopoly was in the UK, ITV, and you had in Luxembourg, you had a private broadcasting station. which had been given frequencies by the Luxembourg government and a franchise, but it was not a monopoly and it was not government-owned. And so we started in 1983 to put together this satellite system. that would bring freedom of choice to all of Europe's citizens. And everybody was against us except for the citizens. So the governments were against us because they were doing, they were owning the government monopoly television stations, they were doing the government aerospace defense. We tried to work with the aerospace companies in Europe. They actually laughed at me. I'll never forget. I went to MBB in Munich, which is today Airbus, and I said, well, you know, we're doing a satellite system and we would like to see if we can buy a satellite from you. And, you know, the CEO at the time, Dr. Schwartz, he says, Ms. Johnson, we do not sell satellites to private companies and we don't sell them to little countries like Luxembourg. So the one person who did believe in me and believed in SES was Frédéric Dalleste. He was the president of Arianespace. And in 1983, he told me, he said, Miss Johnson, if you bring me a satellite, I will launch it for you. We had to go to the United States. We bought two off-of-the-shelf satellites. And so December 13th, 1988, we launched this. the first satellite, Astro 1A, on Arianespace. So what happened 11 months after we launched the satellite system covering all of Europe? The wall fell down. And we were the only satellite that could cover all of Eastern Europe. And the Eastern Europeans wanted to have Western television. And so we became, within one year, the largest, most profitable satellite system in Europe. Now, what happened was that in 1992, we had the digital revolution. And the people on the board and the people who had put in the first money to SES, Astra, were bankers. Because, first of all, there weren't any venture capitalists in 1984 and 1985 here in Europe. So the only people who would invest in this amazingly risky company were the banks. Well, years later, they... They told me, Candice, we never thought we'd make any money. I said, no, no, you've done something much more. You have become venture capitalists because they were the first ones to invest in technology in Europe. But at this time, the people that we had helped the most, because, of course, we were open to new players, none of the old players, none of the legacy, the BBCs, the ARDs, the... The TF, all of the government owned, they didn't want to come on SES. They did come on Astra when the wall fell down. But at the beginning, we had only had the new players. Now, the new players were Rupert Murdoch, Leo Kirsch, and Silvio Berlusconi. By 1992, they were already... becoming the media moguls. And when that digital revolution happened and it was possible to put 10 channels into one transponder, they, of course, realized that if they could get their hands on Astra, which now was the not only number one satellite television broadcasting company, in Europe. It was the broadcasting distribution company in Europe. So they put a letter together, an offer to the Astra board, and they said, we will take 30% stake in SES, which would have been basically control. We will buy all of the digital transponder capacity on the next four satellites, and we will guarantee you 15, 1.5% IRR. Now, the bankers don't like risk. And so they said, well, this is interesting. I said, no, this is terrible. And I wrote this memo. I tried so hard, but they did not understand. They pre-signed this contract. And what was happening then was that if the Children's Channel wanted to get capacity, they had to go then to Murdoch. and say, can we get capacity on your satellite? And then Murdoch would say, yes, but you have to give me 51% of your shareholding. So I knew that I had to do something. I had tried everything. And even though everybody was against me, the management, they wanted to do this deal. The shareholders wanted to do this deal. I went to the press. I went to the Financial Times, and I told them that a cartel was trying to take over the SES satellite, and that if this happened, we would no longer have open skies, we would have closed skies. The Financial Times printed the article, Berlusconi, Murdoch, and Kirsch. sued the Financial Times for my name. They didn't give it. The management and the shareholders went to the Financial Times and said, we are, we, it is Candace Johnson. We are against her. The European Commission said, you know, I said, look, you know, this, if this happens, this is very bad. They said, you know, we, we. We lodge our efforts, but there's nothing we can do. So for one year, I was absolutely vilified by all of these people who were so incredibly important and powerful. And so finally, one year later, Chancellor Kohl called Mr. Santer. who was the prime minister of Luxembourg at that time. And so Chasseur Cole calls Jack Santer and says, who is this Candace Johnson? And, you know, Jack Santer says, well, why? And he said, because she is not allowing my friend Leo Kirsch and his friends, Rupert Murdoch, and Silvio Berlusconi to take over the Aster satellite. And Mr. Sontra said, well, actually, you do know Candace Johnson, because, of course, I had a different name than my husband. And, of course, he knew the ambassador of Luxembourg to Germany, Adrian Meisch. So you do know Candace Johnson. But more importantly, we stand behind her. And she has always fought for the independence. of Luxembourg and of SES, and we stand behind her. So the next day, the contract that had been pre-signed was undone. The suit against the Financial Times was taken away, and SES went on, remained independent. And I will tell you afterwards, it was actually this that made me say, I never can let this happen again. And that is why I architected SES Global, so that SES would become the world's number one satellite system and never, ever be the object of a hostile takeover again. Two or three months later, I saw Leo Kirsch before he died. And somebody who didn't realize that I was me and he was him said, oh, Leo, you know, do you know Candace? And he just looks at me and he looks at them and he says. Of course I know Candice. She's the most dangerous woman in Europe.
We've heard this amazing story. So how do you work within the space industry today?
So it's important to understand I have done satellite television. I have done satellite telecommunications. I have done satellite internet. because I put Europe Online, of course, onto satellite to do broadband internet already in 1997. And I have done satellite mobile communications. So in 2001, everybody said, Candice, you know, you've done all of this stuff. And we had just completed the SES Global deal. And, you know, they said, you should become a venture capitalist. So I said, OK. So I became a venture capitalist. But to be honest, I don't really enjoy being a venture capitalist, except for two exceptions. The reason is I am an entrepreneur, and I like to be close. If I'm not being the entrepreneur, I like to be close to the entrepreneur. Because quite frankly, certainly in space, I really can bring value. And so, but from about 2001 to 2010, I was a venture capitalist. I was a business angel. So I started the Sophia Business Angels 20 years ago. We're celebrating our anniversary and I will again, I'm again now the president. And then really 10 years ago, I said, okay, you know, that's all very nice. but What's really exciting and what I've always loved is space. And I will now enter a new phase in my life. Rather than providing universal access via space, and that I definitely did with television, telecommunications, internet and mobile, I will now use space to access the universe. So I've invested in a lot of space companies. I mentor every Saturday morning. I have three hours, one hour each of mentoring space entrepreneurs. I invest in satellite companies. In 2014, I became the president of EBON, the European Business Angels Network. In 2016, I was asked by Northstar, a Canadian company. who's basically doing space situational awareness, space domain awareness, and space traffic management. And also, around that time, I was also asked to join Seraphim, the world's largest space tech fund. I was the president of IBAN, and I did not feel that I could join anybody, because quite frankly, everybody was asking me if I would join them. And I said, please wait until I have finished in 2018. And I will then speak with all of these funds and I will see which one I will go to. And so I did speak with all of the funds and I chose then to go with Seraphim.
Why did you choose Seraphim?
First of all, the team is great. The Seraphim team, they've worked together for 15 years and they bring a financially oriented, market oriented, you know, view to everything. everything that they do. And when you are taking other people's money to invest it, this is a huge responsibility. And therefore, you must make certain that you do give them a return on investment. Plus, I have to also say, because we have people like Matt O'Connell, who is, he was OneWeb, he did Digital Globe. G.O.I. We have Anne Winblatt, so the software venture capitalist in the world. And then because of all of the various space ventures that I have done, we have a lot of deal flow. We get the best deals from the world to across our desks. And so we are in a very nice position to choose. Also, we have done this Space Camp Accelerator. So Sarah from Space Camp. I'm also very proud. I think we have 60 companies now who've gone through six cohorts, seven cohorts. We have invested in about five of them already, which is a very, very good thing.
What do you look for when you invest?
So when I invest personally, but also when I am, you know, helping doing my work at Seraphim, I like big projects. I like to make certain that it is market oriented. I do not like industrial policy. policy. I like the... entrepreneurs to have a vision. I like them to be obsessed and paranoiac. No, really. I mean, you have to be. You have to have a mission. You have to say, I am going to change the world for the better, and this is how I am going to do it. The challenges that we are using space for today are different. than when I was getting started. When I was getting started, the biggest challenge really was using space to bring universal access. Universal access was a very, very important problem for the world. Today, our problems are different. We have the climate change. We have the environment. We have the oceans. We have the combination of AI, big data, natural intelligence, we have the metaverse. And all of these problems can also be solved by using space. And so that is where we come to this using space to access the universe. So, and today also at Seraphim, we are, I mean, so we're focusing on quantum. We're focusing on sustainability, so everything with green, be it green propulsion, be it green electric satellites, be it going into the Earth, into the universe or near space, taking out the debris. The exploration company, you know, the same thing. We're using the... infrastructure. We'll be using that to try out experiments. So with pharmaceuticals, with agritech, with all of this. So this is very, very exciting. And we're basically calling it space in space. Forget the boundaries of Earth and space. Earth is a part of space. So what We are now exploring, be it near space, be it deep space, the fact that we are now being able to look at the black hole. I mean, this is a phenomenal leap in dimensions. And we, in our minds, have to... expand our minds to make this connection meaningful so that everything we are doing with the exploration in near space and deep space and on the earth is coming together. And the only way that we can do that is, of course, by making certain that they are all connected. So things like the IoT, Internet of Things, You know, being able to put sensors on everything, including in space and cameras, which are basically sensors, you know, telescopes, and being able to use space not only for the exploration, but for the connectivity, it is all coming together. And one of the reasons also why I went to work with as vice chair of North Star. for this space situational awareness, space domain awareness, is because we now need to see the whole arena of space. Also, quite frankly, not only for the debris, but for the hostile menaces that we are experiencing. Unfortunately, at the moment, what is happening is we're having war on Earth and we're having war in space. So we are definitely having star wars. And the ability North Star... Since we can track any object, we can identify it and we can track it. So we can tell, yes, a satellite system, you better move because there's a piece of debris hurtling at you. And if it happens, you know,
to hit you,
you're out. But we can also tell that satellite operator there is a object that has moved from its current orbital position and is coming over to spoof you, to jam you, to, you know... To case you out.
In this new space dimension where it's huge and no boundaries, etc. Yeah. Where is it most important to place your investment? In what kind of space tech should we invest?
If you are a first-time investor, I would invest in a fund like Seraphim. There's also, let me see, there's also Orbital Ventures. There are some national space funds. So I would definitely invest in a fund. You know, we have, I mean, I personally get 100 space projects a month over my desk. So very quickly, I know what's good and what isn't good. I'm suggesting to everyone. launchers. We need to have launchers. One thing I'm also very involved in is actually working with reinsurance companies. So the fact that Northstar has all of this data, which the reinsurance companies do not have. If you're being asked to insure something in space and you don't have it, whoa, you know, that's a problem. So, you know, we're putting... our data into the Swiss risk engine so that they will be able to insure space again because they got out of it. Everything having to do with sustainability, the big data and the AI combined with satellite, so everything that will bring things out to the edge, whether it's a network. in Earth, a network in space, a network in deep space is going to be very big. Those are kind of some of the things. Oh, and also obviously in space, in space servicing. So the fact that we could take a satellite that is maybe, everything is working and the energy is still there and we can hook on new sensors. which will give them a second life and a second business. This is huge. I am not a fan of space tourism. I understand that it gets everybody excited. You know, putting people's lives at risk, because believe me, space is still risky, is something that I personally cannot stomach. And, you know, People have always said, oh, come on, Candice, you know, you do everything risky. And I go, well, first of all, when I'm working in space, I try to make certain and have eliminated all of the risk that I can. Because when you are out in space, then there are things that you definitely have not foreseen.
How do we get not just... private personal money, but bigger funding money. Because in Sweden, we talked to all the banks, we called them around and asked, how are you investing in space? And all of them said, we're not. And we talked to the pension funds. How are you investing in space? We're not. And that's, I think, is a problem in Sweden, most definitely, and maybe also in Europe. So how should we get this bigger fund to invest in space?
So, um... What we are seeing, and it does have to do with this space in space and this access to the universe, is that with the digital transformation, the world is dependent on space. It really is. And so whether it's agriculture, whether it's energy, whether it's tourism on Earth, whether it's logistics. The world is dependent on space. And so if you do not have, just imagine if the GPS satellite system was taken out. Autonomous driving, the whole restaurants, schools, the whole geospatial sector of the world. The ships, the cars, the trains, the agriculture, all of this. would just be gone. The banking system would be gone if we take out the GPS. And what is happening is that it is new private companies who are coming and who are extending GPS. The weather, you know, the extreme weather that is occurring because of the climate change can be measured and predicted by space, by satellites. So the insurance, even just being able to identify a stolen car, can be identified by space. But the space can also identify the forest fires, the tsunamis, the buildings, huge buildings, that will... Fall, the bridges, the infrastructure. So today, an investment in space is basically an investment in the essential part of our economy and of our society and of our life on the earth. It is truly that important.
How come bigger funds and banks in Europe don't realize that?
I think that, unfortunately, in Europe, so much of the emphasis of investing in space has been for technology-driven companies who, I mean, we all can be technology-driven, but they were not market-driven. They were not profit-driven. And so the onus is really now on the entrepreneurs. And to say, you know, when we started SCS. If we hadn't been able to show a business plan which makes money, you can damn well better believe we weren't going to get any money. And, you know, and so entrepreneurs have to be much more rigorous. They have to be taught that they have to be profitable because this is what is really sustainable. This is what we do at the Seraphim Space Camp. This is what we do at the ASA BICS. This is what we do at IBAN Space. And then we have to tell the investors, you have to absolutely oblige the entrepreneur to tell you how they are going to make money.
As you know, we're a Swedish podcast. So how well do you know Sweden and what can we do in space?
First of all, Sweden has a wonderful long heritage. of being in space, the Swedish Space Corporation, you know, so many great companies and innovation, innovation in space. And I've been fortunate to have worked with many of them. However, a fun story is that when we got started with Astra, we had one gentleman that I had brought, who was Count de Kergoly, Count Roland de Kergoly. He was a former French diplomat. And this is 1983. He believed in having a whole Europe. So not half of Europe, but a whole Europe. He believed in freedom of choice. And so he became our first investor with one million euros, or dollars at the time. Our second private investor was a gentleman called Jan Stenbeck. And Jan... was considered to be crazy at the time because he had forests and Shinovic was, you know, a forest company and he had this quote-unquote crazy idea to go into space. And so indeed, he became our second investor and a wonderful, wonderful investor to have because he was never, ever. burden by all of these boundaries and things like this. So 1985, 1986, I'm invited to go to Sweden to give a speech on Astra and SES. And so, you know, I told everybody. I said, you know, I'm always asked about the Swedes and the Americans, because I was American and, of course, Jan Stedbeck was Swedish. And, you know, we were called cowboys and Vikings. And this was a derogative, you know, identification. And so, you know, I... I always used to tell everybody, well, you know, cowboys and Vikings made America great, so why not Astra?
What are your visions for the future?
Well, you know, I kind of gave that vision of space and space and the new space dimensions and the new space domain. It is a huge responsibility to know that in... order to be able to truly put all of the resources that space gives to us for humanity, that we must make certain and take care of it and not do to space what we did with the oceans. So this is huge. The second thing, and, you know, I do see this world and this universe and this new world where everything is connected, deep space, near space, earth, oceans, very important oceans. We will need to put into place new regulation and new laws that will be, of course, based on ethics. I've just written for IBAN Space, I've written a lot of The manifesto for a clean, safe, equitable and peaceful space for all. And I'm concerned, and the reason I wrote this is because we are experiencing a little bit of colonization by the larger space-faring nations. And if we are not careful, we will not be able to help the emerging space-faring nations. take advantage of space as a resource for their own needs. So, and in my life, you know, I've always kind of gone between doing, somebody once called me a policy entrepreneur. And it's true that I did start the Association of Private Telecom Operators in 1992. And I actually took the Deutsche Telekom to court and won for having done illegal subsidies to the tune of two billion day marks at the time. And whenever you have something new and that is growing and new frontiers, you must make certain that you enter into what I call a social contract, where governments set policies and entrepreneurs do. So I'm thinking that I need to get a little bit more involved in this going forward. to make certain that it is really this great place for investment, for entrepreneurship, for innovation and for inspiration.
And for how long will you keep on working with space?
You know, I'm 69, so I think I've got at least another good 20 years.
Sounds good.
Space needs a Candice Johnson.
Space does need a Candice Johnson. And we need to talk more about space.
Satellites really were a game changer. And nowadays it's hard to imagine life without GPS, weather reports and super fast communication. But what is it like to actually be out there?
Explorer and entrepreneur and private astronaut Richard Garrett knows. He spent two weeks at the ISS and in the next episode he will tell us all about it.
Don't forget to subscribe to this feed. We really hope you want to join us on this ride, all the way to Mars and beyond.
My name is Marcus Pettersson.
My name is Susanna Levenhaupt.
The music we play is composed by Armin Pendek.
Have We Gone to Mars Yet? is produced at Beppo by Rundfunk Media in collaboration with Rymd Kapital. Read more about them and how you can get yourself involved at Have We Gone to Mars Yet?
Description
Satellite pioneer, creator of SES/Astra, and allegedly Europe's most dangerous woman tells us about a lifetime in the (new) space industry. Candece gives us her view on the space industry today, what to consider as an investor or entrepreneur in space, and tells us how to build a space nation from scratch.
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Transcription
And somebody who didn't realize that I was me and he was him said, oh, Leo, you know, do you know Candace? And he just looks at me and he looks at them and he says, of course I know Candace. She's the most dangerous woman in Europe.
This is Have We Gone to Mars Yet? A podcast about all the things that needs to be sorted before we can put a person on the surface of Mars. We meet the greatest minds within the fields of technology, medicine, astronomy, psychology and physics. We interview entrepreneurs, industrialists, astronauts and scientists.
And why, you ask? Well, the boundaries to what we can physically reach are changing rapidly. And what used to be impossible is suddenly within our grasp. And we know that... The discoveries and development in space are improving our chances to save life on Earth.
And we want to be there for the changes, to take part and be a part of all the steps taken for our future.
And soon enough, we'll be walking around on planet Mars. And we save the world going there.
My name is Marcus Pettersson.
My name is Susanna Levenhout.
And this is Have We Gone to Mars Yet? This mission we're on ain't all about human space travel. Most space-related activities are performed from Earth, and most people who devote their lives to space don't ever go there.
Way back in the 70s, Candace Johnson was working as an executive producer at a radio station in Washington. Pretty soon she realized... that their distribution system would be so much more efficient if they would just use satellites instead of shipping tapes across the continent. It wasn't the easiest task to convince her seniors to implement this, but once up and running, everybody wanted to follow her example. And this was just the beginning of Candace Johnson's satellite journey.
After meeting her husband, the ambassador of Luxembourg, She moved to Europe and took her IDs with her. She spent all her time and money on building a satellite system for her new home country, Luxembourg. A system that came to be known as Société Européenne des Satellites, or SIS Astra.
In 1982, Luxembourg was having three crises. A steel crisis, a broadcasting crisis, and a monetary union crisis with Belgium. And so the Prime Minister, Pierre Werner, was looking for a new pillar, a new economic pillar. And so I told the prime minister... I said, you could have a private satellite system in Luxembourg. That was June 1982. And in February 1983, he called me. He said, Candice, I need to have your satellite system. I said, okay, I will come and I will do this satellite system for you. But the most important thing is that... This was so new, and the prime minister didn't have any money whatsoever. And not only that, he said, Candace, you'll have to do all of this, and you will never be able to receive any financial reward. Now, I had just had, quote, unquote, this exit. So I had money for three years. So I said, no problem. I will just use my money, pay my expenses, and go and do all of these things. So fast forward. Now, the most important thing that I felt we should be doing with the satellite system, which came to be known as SES, Société Européenne des Satellites, the trademark name was Astra, was to provide freedom of choice. So in 1983, freedom of choice in television and radio viewing, and even in telecommunications, really did not exist in Europe. You had monopolies in Germany, in France, in Italy, the Netherlands, Sweden, you know, all over. The only place where you had a duopoly was in the UK, ITV, and you had in Luxembourg, you had a private broadcasting station. which had been given frequencies by the Luxembourg government and a franchise, but it was not a monopoly and it was not government-owned. And so we started in 1983 to put together this satellite system. that would bring freedom of choice to all of Europe's citizens. And everybody was against us except for the citizens. So the governments were against us because they were doing, they were owning the government monopoly television stations, they were doing the government aerospace defense. We tried to work with the aerospace companies in Europe. They actually laughed at me. I'll never forget. I went to MBB in Munich, which is today Airbus, and I said, well, you know, we're doing a satellite system and we would like to see if we can buy a satellite from you. And, you know, the CEO at the time, Dr. Schwartz, he says, Ms. Johnson, we do not sell satellites to private companies and we don't sell them to little countries like Luxembourg. So the one person who did believe in me and believed in SES was Frédéric Dalleste. He was the president of Arianespace. And in 1983, he told me, he said, Miss Johnson, if you bring me a satellite, I will launch it for you. We had to go to the United States. We bought two off-of-the-shelf satellites. And so December 13th, 1988, we launched this. the first satellite, Astro 1A, on Arianespace. So what happened 11 months after we launched the satellite system covering all of Europe? The wall fell down. And we were the only satellite that could cover all of Eastern Europe. And the Eastern Europeans wanted to have Western television. And so we became, within one year, the largest, most profitable satellite system in Europe. Now, what happened was that in 1992, we had the digital revolution. And the people on the board and the people who had put in the first money to SES, Astra, were bankers. Because, first of all, there weren't any venture capitalists in 1984 and 1985 here in Europe. So the only people who would invest in this amazingly risky company were the banks. Well, years later, they... They told me, Candice, we never thought we'd make any money. I said, no, no, you've done something much more. You have become venture capitalists because they were the first ones to invest in technology in Europe. But at this time, the people that we had helped the most, because, of course, we were open to new players, none of the old players, none of the legacy, the BBCs, the ARDs, the... The TF, all of the government owned, they didn't want to come on SES. They did come on Astra when the wall fell down. But at the beginning, we had only had the new players. Now, the new players were Rupert Murdoch, Leo Kirsch, and Silvio Berlusconi. By 1992, they were already... becoming the media moguls. And when that digital revolution happened and it was possible to put 10 channels into one transponder, they, of course, realized that if they could get their hands on Astra, which now was the not only number one satellite television broadcasting company, in Europe. It was the broadcasting distribution company in Europe. So they put a letter together, an offer to the Astra board, and they said, we will take 30% stake in SES, which would have been basically control. We will buy all of the digital transponder capacity on the next four satellites, and we will guarantee you 15, 1.5% IRR. Now, the bankers don't like risk. And so they said, well, this is interesting. I said, no, this is terrible. And I wrote this memo. I tried so hard, but they did not understand. They pre-signed this contract. And what was happening then was that if the Children's Channel wanted to get capacity, they had to go then to Murdoch. and say, can we get capacity on your satellite? And then Murdoch would say, yes, but you have to give me 51% of your shareholding. So I knew that I had to do something. I had tried everything. And even though everybody was against me, the management, they wanted to do this deal. The shareholders wanted to do this deal. I went to the press. I went to the Financial Times, and I told them that a cartel was trying to take over the SES satellite, and that if this happened, we would no longer have open skies, we would have closed skies. The Financial Times printed the article, Berlusconi, Murdoch, and Kirsch. sued the Financial Times for my name. They didn't give it. The management and the shareholders went to the Financial Times and said, we are, we, it is Candace Johnson. We are against her. The European Commission said, you know, I said, look, you know, this, if this happens, this is very bad. They said, you know, we, we. We lodge our efforts, but there's nothing we can do. So for one year, I was absolutely vilified by all of these people who were so incredibly important and powerful. And so finally, one year later, Chancellor Kohl called Mr. Santer. who was the prime minister of Luxembourg at that time. And so Chasseur Cole calls Jack Santer and says, who is this Candace Johnson? And, you know, Jack Santer says, well, why? And he said, because she is not allowing my friend Leo Kirsch and his friends, Rupert Murdoch, and Silvio Berlusconi to take over the Aster satellite. And Mr. Sontra said, well, actually, you do know Candace Johnson, because, of course, I had a different name than my husband. And, of course, he knew the ambassador of Luxembourg to Germany, Adrian Meisch. So you do know Candace Johnson. But more importantly, we stand behind her. And she has always fought for the independence. of Luxembourg and of SES, and we stand behind her. So the next day, the contract that had been pre-signed was undone. The suit against the Financial Times was taken away, and SES went on, remained independent. And I will tell you afterwards, it was actually this that made me say, I never can let this happen again. And that is why I architected SES Global, so that SES would become the world's number one satellite system and never, ever be the object of a hostile takeover again. Two or three months later, I saw Leo Kirsch before he died. And somebody who didn't realize that I was me and he was him said, oh, Leo, you know, do you know Candace? And he just looks at me and he looks at them and he says. Of course I know Candice. She's the most dangerous woman in Europe.
We've heard this amazing story. So how do you work within the space industry today?
So it's important to understand I have done satellite television. I have done satellite telecommunications. I have done satellite internet. because I put Europe Online, of course, onto satellite to do broadband internet already in 1997. And I have done satellite mobile communications. So in 2001, everybody said, Candice, you know, you've done all of this stuff. And we had just completed the SES Global deal. And, you know, they said, you should become a venture capitalist. So I said, OK. So I became a venture capitalist. But to be honest, I don't really enjoy being a venture capitalist, except for two exceptions. The reason is I am an entrepreneur, and I like to be close. If I'm not being the entrepreneur, I like to be close to the entrepreneur. Because quite frankly, certainly in space, I really can bring value. And so, but from about 2001 to 2010, I was a venture capitalist. I was a business angel. So I started the Sophia Business Angels 20 years ago. We're celebrating our anniversary and I will again, I'm again now the president. And then really 10 years ago, I said, okay, you know, that's all very nice. but What's really exciting and what I've always loved is space. And I will now enter a new phase in my life. Rather than providing universal access via space, and that I definitely did with television, telecommunications, internet and mobile, I will now use space to access the universe. So I've invested in a lot of space companies. I mentor every Saturday morning. I have three hours, one hour each of mentoring space entrepreneurs. I invest in satellite companies. In 2014, I became the president of EBON, the European Business Angels Network. In 2016, I was asked by Northstar, a Canadian company. who's basically doing space situational awareness, space domain awareness, and space traffic management. And also, around that time, I was also asked to join Seraphim, the world's largest space tech fund. I was the president of IBAN, and I did not feel that I could join anybody, because quite frankly, everybody was asking me if I would join them. And I said, please wait until I have finished in 2018. And I will then speak with all of these funds and I will see which one I will go to. And so I did speak with all of the funds and I chose then to go with Seraphim.
Why did you choose Seraphim?
First of all, the team is great. The Seraphim team, they've worked together for 15 years and they bring a financially oriented, market oriented, you know, view to everything. everything that they do. And when you are taking other people's money to invest it, this is a huge responsibility. And therefore, you must make certain that you do give them a return on investment. Plus, I have to also say, because we have people like Matt O'Connell, who is, he was OneWeb, he did Digital Globe. G.O.I. We have Anne Winblatt, so the software venture capitalist in the world. And then because of all of the various space ventures that I have done, we have a lot of deal flow. We get the best deals from the world to across our desks. And so we are in a very nice position to choose. Also, we have done this Space Camp Accelerator. So Sarah from Space Camp. I'm also very proud. I think we have 60 companies now who've gone through six cohorts, seven cohorts. We have invested in about five of them already, which is a very, very good thing.
What do you look for when you invest?
So when I invest personally, but also when I am, you know, helping doing my work at Seraphim, I like big projects. I like to make certain that it is market oriented. I do not like industrial policy. policy. I like the... entrepreneurs to have a vision. I like them to be obsessed and paranoiac. No, really. I mean, you have to be. You have to have a mission. You have to say, I am going to change the world for the better, and this is how I am going to do it. The challenges that we are using space for today are different. than when I was getting started. When I was getting started, the biggest challenge really was using space to bring universal access. Universal access was a very, very important problem for the world. Today, our problems are different. We have the climate change. We have the environment. We have the oceans. We have the combination of AI, big data, natural intelligence, we have the metaverse. And all of these problems can also be solved by using space. And so that is where we come to this using space to access the universe. So, and today also at Seraphim, we are, I mean, so we're focusing on quantum. We're focusing on sustainability, so everything with green, be it green propulsion, be it green electric satellites, be it going into the Earth, into the universe or near space, taking out the debris. The exploration company, you know, the same thing. We're using the... infrastructure. We'll be using that to try out experiments. So with pharmaceuticals, with agritech, with all of this. So this is very, very exciting. And we're basically calling it space in space. Forget the boundaries of Earth and space. Earth is a part of space. So what We are now exploring, be it near space, be it deep space, the fact that we are now being able to look at the black hole. I mean, this is a phenomenal leap in dimensions. And we, in our minds, have to... expand our minds to make this connection meaningful so that everything we are doing with the exploration in near space and deep space and on the earth is coming together. And the only way that we can do that is, of course, by making certain that they are all connected. So things like the IoT, Internet of Things, You know, being able to put sensors on everything, including in space and cameras, which are basically sensors, you know, telescopes, and being able to use space not only for the exploration, but for the connectivity, it is all coming together. And one of the reasons also why I went to work with as vice chair of North Star. for this space situational awareness, space domain awareness, is because we now need to see the whole arena of space. Also, quite frankly, not only for the debris, but for the hostile menaces that we are experiencing. Unfortunately, at the moment, what is happening is we're having war on Earth and we're having war in space. So we are definitely having star wars. And the ability North Star... Since we can track any object, we can identify it and we can track it. So we can tell, yes, a satellite system, you better move because there's a piece of debris hurtling at you. And if it happens, you know,
to hit you,
you're out. But we can also tell that satellite operator there is a object that has moved from its current orbital position and is coming over to spoof you, to jam you, to, you know... To case you out.
In this new space dimension where it's huge and no boundaries, etc. Yeah. Where is it most important to place your investment? In what kind of space tech should we invest?
If you are a first-time investor, I would invest in a fund like Seraphim. There's also, let me see, there's also Orbital Ventures. There are some national space funds. So I would definitely invest in a fund. You know, we have, I mean, I personally get 100 space projects a month over my desk. So very quickly, I know what's good and what isn't good. I'm suggesting to everyone. launchers. We need to have launchers. One thing I'm also very involved in is actually working with reinsurance companies. So the fact that Northstar has all of this data, which the reinsurance companies do not have. If you're being asked to insure something in space and you don't have it, whoa, you know, that's a problem. So, you know, we're putting... our data into the Swiss risk engine so that they will be able to insure space again because they got out of it. Everything having to do with sustainability, the big data and the AI combined with satellite, so everything that will bring things out to the edge, whether it's a network. in Earth, a network in space, a network in deep space is going to be very big. Those are kind of some of the things. Oh, and also obviously in space, in space servicing. So the fact that we could take a satellite that is maybe, everything is working and the energy is still there and we can hook on new sensors. which will give them a second life and a second business. This is huge. I am not a fan of space tourism. I understand that it gets everybody excited. You know, putting people's lives at risk, because believe me, space is still risky, is something that I personally cannot stomach. And, you know, People have always said, oh, come on, Candice, you know, you do everything risky. And I go, well, first of all, when I'm working in space, I try to make certain and have eliminated all of the risk that I can. Because when you are out in space, then there are things that you definitely have not foreseen.
How do we get not just... private personal money, but bigger funding money. Because in Sweden, we talked to all the banks, we called them around and asked, how are you investing in space? And all of them said, we're not. And we talked to the pension funds. How are you investing in space? We're not. And that's, I think, is a problem in Sweden, most definitely, and maybe also in Europe. So how should we get this bigger fund to invest in space?
So, um... What we are seeing, and it does have to do with this space in space and this access to the universe, is that with the digital transformation, the world is dependent on space. It really is. And so whether it's agriculture, whether it's energy, whether it's tourism on Earth, whether it's logistics. The world is dependent on space. And so if you do not have, just imagine if the GPS satellite system was taken out. Autonomous driving, the whole restaurants, schools, the whole geospatial sector of the world. The ships, the cars, the trains, the agriculture, all of this. would just be gone. The banking system would be gone if we take out the GPS. And what is happening is that it is new private companies who are coming and who are extending GPS. The weather, you know, the extreme weather that is occurring because of the climate change can be measured and predicted by space, by satellites. So the insurance, even just being able to identify a stolen car, can be identified by space. But the space can also identify the forest fires, the tsunamis, the buildings, huge buildings, that will... Fall, the bridges, the infrastructure. So today, an investment in space is basically an investment in the essential part of our economy and of our society and of our life on the earth. It is truly that important.
How come bigger funds and banks in Europe don't realize that?
I think that, unfortunately, in Europe, so much of the emphasis of investing in space has been for technology-driven companies who, I mean, we all can be technology-driven, but they were not market-driven. They were not profit-driven. And so the onus is really now on the entrepreneurs. And to say, you know, when we started SCS. If we hadn't been able to show a business plan which makes money, you can damn well better believe we weren't going to get any money. And, you know, and so entrepreneurs have to be much more rigorous. They have to be taught that they have to be profitable because this is what is really sustainable. This is what we do at the Seraphim Space Camp. This is what we do at the ASA BICS. This is what we do at IBAN Space. And then we have to tell the investors, you have to absolutely oblige the entrepreneur to tell you how they are going to make money.
As you know, we're a Swedish podcast. So how well do you know Sweden and what can we do in space?
First of all, Sweden has a wonderful long heritage. of being in space, the Swedish Space Corporation, you know, so many great companies and innovation, innovation in space. And I've been fortunate to have worked with many of them. However, a fun story is that when we got started with Astra, we had one gentleman that I had brought, who was Count de Kergoly, Count Roland de Kergoly. He was a former French diplomat. And this is 1983. He believed in having a whole Europe. So not half of Europe, but a whole Europe. He believed in freedom of choice. And so he became our first investor with one million euros, or dollars at the time. Our second private investor was a gentleman called Jan Stenbeck. And Jan... was considered to be crazy at the time because he had forests and Shinovic was, you know, a forest company and he had this quote-unquote crazy idea to go into space. And so indeed, he became our second investor and a wonderful, wonderful investor to have because he was never, ever. burden by all of these boundaries and things like this. So 1985, 1986, I'm invited to go to Sweden to give a speech on Astra and SES. And so, you know, I told everybody. I said, you know, I'm always asked about the Swedes and the Americans, because I was American and, of course, Jan Stedbeck was Swedish. And, you know, we were called cowboys and Vikings. And this was a derogative, you know, identification. And so, you know, I... I always used to tell everybody, well, you know, cowboys and Vikings made America great, so why not Astra?
What are your visions for the future?
Well, you know, I kind of gave that vision of space and space and the new space dimensions and the new space domain. It is a huge responsibility to know that in... order to be able to truly put all of the resources that space gives to us for humanity, that we must make certain and take care of it and not do to space what we did with the oceans. So this is huge. The second thing, and, you know, I do see this world and this universe and this new world where everything is connected, deep space, near space, earth, oceans, very important oceans. We will need to put into place new regulation and new laws that will be, of course, based on ethics. I've just written for IBAN Space, I've written a lot of The manifesto for a clean, safe, equitable and peaceful space for all. And I'm concerned, and the reason I wrote this is because we are experiencing a little bit of colonization by the larger space-faring nations. And if we are not careful, we will not be able to help the emerging space-faring nations. take advantage of space as a resource for their own needs. So, and in my life, you know, I've always kind of gone between doing, somebody once called me a policy entrepreneur. And it's true that I did start the Association of Private Telecom Operators in 1992. And I actually took the Deutsche Telekom to court and won for having done illegal subsidies to the tune of two billion day marks at the time. And whenever you have something new and that is growing and new frontiers, you must make certain that you enter into what I call a social contract, where governments set policies and entrepreneurs do. So I'm thinking that I need to get a little bit more involved in this going forward. to make certain that it is really this great place for investment, for entrepreneurship, for innovation and for inspiration.
And for how long will you keep on working with space?
You know, I'm 69, so I think I've got at least another good 20 years.
Sounds good.
Space needs a Candice Johnson.
Space does need a Candice Johnson. And we need to talk more about space.
Satellites really were a game changer. And nowadays it's hard to imagine life without GPS, weather reports and super fast communication. But what is it like to actually be out there?
Explorer and entrepreneur and private astronaut Richard Garrett knows. He spent two weeks at the ISS and in the next episode he will tell us all about it.
Don't forget to subscribe to this feed. We really hope you want to join us on this ride, all the way to Mars and beyond.
My name is Marcus Pettersson.
My name is Susanna Levenhaupt.
The music we play is composed by Armin Pendek.
Have We Gone to Mars Yet? is produced at Beppo by Rundfunk Media in collaboration with Rymd Kapital. Read more about them and how you can get yourself involved at Have We Gone to Mars Yet?
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