- Speaker #0
So what are we talking about today?
- Speaker #1
We are talking about the president of Indonesia, Prabowo, meeting Macron. Yeah,
- Speaker #0
the president of France. It sounds crazy, isn't it? Because we are together since more than a year and a half now, and our two presidents will meet. What do you think about it?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, finally. I hope that they actually will be talking about Macron.
- Speaker #0
you know for indonesians more easily going to france yeah i hope this thing will be good because we have some troubles with visas if the president listened to us please help us by the way savira is a baker and every sunday during this podcast she will bake something for us to have a sweet cake a sweet cookie and she wants to mix in france and indo taste so what do we have today uh
- Speaker #1
Ah, we have a... So this is the first day I try to have healthy cookies. So I saw it somewhere on Instagram that it's a banana coconut cookies. But today I a little bit have a mix. So I put more chocolate powder. So and then the chocolate butter, but the butter is French.
- Speaker #0
Ah interesting, yeah it's Elevir, very good butter, yeah we know. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
do you need to say the brand?
- Speaker #0
Yeah why not? And it's very interesting because yeah I taste it, I really love it, so in case you want to have some great cookies you can connect to Sapaceri on Instagram, we will put the link on the episode. So today we are talking about Prabowo Subianto, our Indonesian president, meeting president of Macron, and I want to give some context before we talking about it. First, we have diplomatic relations since 1950, so just some years after Soekarno. It's been 75 years this year. We also have a strategic partnership signed in 2011, especially about defense, military, a lot of things like that. There is also 200 plus French companies in Indonesia who made more than 5 billion euros a year. And we have, yeah it's crazy, and we have Institut Français or French Institute. They are present in Jakarta, Bandung and Surabaya. And this institute is here to bring French culture, French language to Indonesia. And they tried a lot of things. So we have different key topics. So first of all, for you, what was France before we met each other in October 2023? How do you, what do you know about France at that time? What was your relation with France before we met?
- Speaker #1
You mean what do
- Speaker #0
I know about France?
- Speaker #1
What do I know about France are totally pastries.
- Speaker #0
Yeah,
- Speaker #1
you know, totally pastries. Yes, pastries, the bread, you know, I didn't know what's... what was the name at that time but now I know you know like Pande Compagne
- Speaker #0
Pande
- Speaker #1
Compagne, Baguette, but there is actually a lot more of the name which is I don't know you know all the name but and recently Savera discovered Madeleine and she loved it yeah Madeleine and Canelé
- Speaker #0
And she loves Madeleine from Eric Kaiser. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
yeah, yeah. So far, it's the first Madeleine that for me is the best.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, you love it, you love it. So yeah, you know some things and you even name your company, Sapasserie, from the name Patisserie from France, which is crazy. It's funny. So we saw that Prabot and Macron will talk about different topics such as nuclear, Defense and security, AI and technology, economic investment and culture and education. So maybe we can talk about this. Nuclear energy. I know that here the nuclear is not very used. Do you know why? What happened exactly? Why Indonesia didn't choose nuclear to make energy? There is a reason for that?
- Speaker #1
Well to be honest I don't know. Well I mean from my From what I'm thinking, I thought that Indonesia actually already have nuclear, but it turns out to...
- Speaker #0
They don't?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, we don't have it. I mean... In Malaysia, I have a lot of natural resources, which is, I thought that we actually have nuclear, you know, but it turns out to be not. So I really, really hope that because when I travel, I can see that some country I visit, they use nuclear as an energy.
- Speaker #0
Like Japan.
- Speaker #1
Like Japan, they're using nuclear for, you know, for electricity. daily, it's like a daily life. It turns out that Indonesia still don't have it so I hope that there is a deal about having a nuclear here you know so yeah that's what I...
- Speaker #0
Yeah it's interesting for me because as a French we everybody taught us since we are kid that nuclear is very important for energy because in France we have more than 70% of the electricity coming from nuclear plants So we have more than... 50 nuclear plants, I think, if I remember well. And it's very interesting to see that Prabowo Subianto, the president of Indonesia, wants to have the French point of view about it because he knows that we have some of the biggest companies in the world about it, EDF and Framatome, to cite them. And it's very interesting because the goal of Prabowo is to diversify energy and to reduce carbon emission. Maybe we can talk about that because we're living together in Jakarta right now. And we have some problems about it, isn't it?
- Speaker #1
It's not some problem, it's a big problem. When you're talking about carbon emissions, Jakarta has a really big problem. It's been, you know, after COVID disappeared, it's not really disappeared, but after we finally back in business since COVID. Lucien is getting more worse than before. Yeah, like it was fine during the COVID, like the sky was blue and we don't have, but the COVID was there, but now...
- Speaker #0
And do you think it was, it became worse after the COVID?
- Speaker #1
I think the problem was here since...
- Speaker #0
so many years already but the thing is it's just turns out that it's getting worse and worse but you also told me that people here buy too much bikes and cars is it true?
- Speaker #1
well again it's so true like I have a lot of friends that have you know I hope they not listen this talk in one family yeah but also I also have a friend who has one car for one family you know Is it really necessary for you to have three to four cars in one family?
- Speaker #0
It's true. We live in a special place and it's crazy how many cars people have here. Sometimes it's crazy. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
because Jakarta has even and odd numbers.
- Speaker #0
Ah yeah, tell us a little bit about that.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, even and odd numbers. But some of... it's not some, but a lot of...
- Speaker #0
in recent they using different cars for different days because one day you can the dates based on the on your plate you can use your car this day or not yeah I mean I mean even if
- Speaker #1
today's odd numbers or dates so they need to use old numbers okay but it's not It's not available on weekends,
- Speaker #0
it's only on the weekdays. Yeah, because there is much more traffic on the weekdays. If we talk about defense and security and military especially, some context before we talk about it. Indonesia bought 42 Rafale fighter jets, which will be delivered. Also submarines, also radar systems. Apparently the Indonesian government is very interested in French weapons. And the focus is Indo-Pacific. They say they need to have a maritime cooperation and a regional balance because they are scary about some of the neighbors. We will not cite them, but we know who we're talking about. What do you think about the fact that Indonesia tries to be not aligned on the US or in China? Is it a good thing or not for you?
- Speaker #1
Hmm... It could be a great decision but at the same time, it's all about politics. You know, because it's dangerous when you're just taking sides on one thing and then the other. the other two countries will not like it and they will have a you know some bad statement on Indonesia. I can see that we try to play safe.
- Speaker #0
There is a funny story you can talk about the QRIS story maybe you can share with our audience.
- Speaker #1
The QRIS story is actually interesting and then it's funny because...
- Speaker #0
What's QRIS first? for those who don't know.
- Speaker #1
Curious is a payment, what you call it.
- Speaker #0
A payment system. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
payment systems that we use here in Indonesia. So apparently it helps. I think for the first time, Indonesia making something that actually is good, is very good. actually the government actually made that to help a micro business the small businesses small businesses facilitate the payments of the people yeah to facilitate and to help the bank so uh a lot of micro business here are connected to bank dki which is we need to use the theories for the boundary for the first time and then it turns out that other banks follow what the government bank did. So, because not a lot of people, not a lot of customers, I mean, have public IE.
- Speaker #0
So the crazy thing is because of QRIS, everybody use it here, now it's even expanding in other countries, such as Malaysia, etc. And what happened?
- Speaker #1
What happened is that it's... it's a good thing i'm not really need my card anymore you need to have a transaction even though i i forgot my car with just a few times i didn't bring my card and if i have a curious curious it's on my phone yes so indonesian now they don't use visa and mastercard anymore they prefer using curies so what happened what happened well you know what happened you know the answer right like uh it seems that the president of the us
- Speaker #0
it's not really exactly Donald Trump said to Prabowo there is a problem I don't know why your population doesn't use Visa Mastercard anymore we lose money on that can you do something
- Speaker #1
Donald Trump say that yeah well of course to be honest it's actually to I think for the government to check on the every transactions that happening in Asia with using queries.
- Speaker #0
Do you think it's a surveillance thing? Do you think government use it to surveil, to be sure, to spy a little bit on people or it's just for facilitating? No,
- Speaker #1
it's just first it was a facility, you know, it was just to facilitate the micro business here, you know, because but the thing is not a lot of customers have Bank DKI. so they cannot use Curies because they have a bank you know now it's nationalized everybody can use it yeah before it was only when I say I I don't have any cash I and they don't have any Curies from a big bank like BCA yeah the big banks here they don't have it they didn't have it what should I do? I don't have my card, you know, so they didn't.
- Speaker #0
It's crazy this story because maybe Curis expand in a lot of countries now and maybe one day they will fight against Visa and Mastercard worldwide. So it's very funny. If we talk now about two subjects I love a lot, as you know, AI and technology because I'm an AI speaker and consultant for businesses. I saw that Indonesia joined the Paris AI Action Summit in February 2025. I also saw that Prabowo and Macron want to talk about smart cities, AI research, digital infrastructure. And I also know, as a French, that France is one of the leaders in tech, thanks to Mistral, for example. Mistral, for those who don't know, it's like ChatGPT, but it's built by French. And the good thing about it is they are trained in French and Arabic content only. So the model is very interesting, especially when you talk about religion, when you talk about Arabic countries are very well better for that and more culturally close to Indonesia, for example. So what do you think? Do you think the Indonesian people are advanced or a little bit late about AI?
- Speaker #1
A little bit late, obviously. I can see, because since I know you, I have a privilege to know more about AI, about everything that's happening right now, you know. But apparently it's not happening with those around me, you know, with my friends, with my family, it's not very familiar with. Which is, they need, they ask a lot of questions. questions when I was talking about AI like what is it exactly and how it's created you know like who own AI create AI you know a lot of questions that actually we are the one who built AI since years exactly the data the people the data the questions that you keep asking on google every day is AI that's...
- Speaker #0
They use that data.
- Speaker #1
for training the way i do yeah so yes a lot of people that i ask you know it's like yeah they think that ai is just something strange that the us create created which is not true and i is already here already on tv already everywhere that leaks on a lot of things yeah it's true it's really interesting so you think they are late me my opinion is
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's true a little bit, but also I saw a huge potential. By the way, if you're listening to this podcast and you are in Jakarta on the 12th of June, we have a great event. So don't hesitate to send a comment. I will send you the link. A great event about AI, marketing and business on the 12th of June in Chechemoué. It's a great coffee shop and I will share it with you. Talking about economic investment. I saw that there is a lot of investment right now in France and Indonesia. For example, during the Choose France Summit, recently held in Paris, a 20 billion euro new investment was announced. And I know that France and Indonesia want to focus on four things. Green energy, transportation, AI and health. So what do you think? Let's talk about transportation here in Jakarta, here in Jakarta because I know you have some interesting things to say here especially about trains because it's better now apparently and also about um we want to talk about Lusantara you need to talk to explain me this new capital it's a little bit quiet now wow be careful what you say be careful let's talk about the train first um you told me that before we met before covid the train was horrible here and now it's getting better and better. I like it. I can see some of the trends here are very nice.
- Speaker #1
It's not before COVID. Before COVID it's already...
- Speaker #0
Okay, before when then?
- Speaker #1
I think it's getting so much better on 2013.
- Speaker #0
Okay.
- Speaker #1
It's getting better and better and better. You know, I used to go to... specific locations at my office long time ago I need to go by train which is at that time it was economy no but economy was the cheapest at that time was very bad train of course a lot of people selling something inside the train there
- Speaker #0
is no door already very old-fashioned very old fashion no AC of
- Speaker #1
No AAC because all... doors are open.
- Speaker #0
You have the wind.
- Speaker #1
I have the wind, which is, you don't need the icy actually. So yeah, it was amazing. You know, you can see the growing until today.
- Speaker #0
Some of the trains we took together. Yeah, I like it.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, also it's not reaching out a little bit far place, but it's still very good. I mean, I can see the growing.
- Speaker #0
It's not Tokyo but it's growing well.
- Speaker #1
It's not growing well but actually you can compare with other Asian countries which are very close to Indonesia. They are already growing so much more but we are growing so...
- Speaker #0
Okay, it's interesting. And about Nusantara, so the project looks crazy so... Just to tell the audience, if you don't know, Nusantara Ikaan is the next capital of Indonesia. Right now it's Jakarta, where we are. And apparently the government, since the last president, wants to build this gigantic new capital called Nusantara in Kalimantan Island. First, what do you think about this project? And second, do you think it will happen?
- Speaker #1
I'm not I think it will happen, but I don't know when. Because building a capital city is not easy, it's very hard. A lot of struggling, a lot of money.
- Speaker #0
They already begin, yeah.
- Speaker #1
They already begin, but still, capital city, a lot of work to do, and also a lot of money.
- Speaker #0
A lot of foreign investment.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, a lot of foreign.
- Speaker #0
Maybe Macbou will announce something.
- Speaker #1
I don't know, maybe, I hope so, you know, but maybe Macron needs to work on visa first.
- Speaker #0
They only focus on visa, you know. Okay, okay.
- Speaker #1
But apparently, Lysandre is a little bit quiet right now.
- Speaker #0
I saw they make like party things because the presidential palace was already finished. They made a party, but it was very... talking about it one day and they stop. So it's interesting. So apparently Nusantara will be the capital, so they will move all the political and government things there and Jakarta will stay like the economic, like New York, like entertainment and business. Okay interesting. About culture and education, as I said in the introduction, Institut Français is expanding, the French Institute, we have a lot of a program exchange announced for example a film a movie partnership between france and indonesia such is very interesting what do you think about that because we have a public institution called cnc and this cnc said they will invest in movies in indonesia it's good news isn't it wow it's great news um i really appreciate um something like that
- Speaker #1
you know especially for you know if it's related with art which is because i love art i love watching movies indonesian movies you know i can see the the difference even though and then i can see a lot of legends are born now here a lot of talents here but the thing is sometimes it's not easy to not enough investment not enough investment which is actually the actors are very great they are amazing so if we can do something to get i mean if indonesia and france working on it i think it will be yeah this
- Speaker #0
weekend we were at the at a great event uh i'm talking about reza i don't know yeah a great actor here in indonesia And it was very interesting to see what it he talks about because he made a book about the gratitude he has about all the people who helped him through his career. So yeah, I can feel that there is something good. And we saw recently last week, Jumbo. For those who don't know, Jumbo is a great animation movie, 100% made in Indonesia. And it's one of the best animation movies I saw since a long time. So I recommend you to see it. And I saw that Jumbo was at Cannes Film Festival in France. So I hope they win something. I still don't know. I need to check. Actually,
- Speaker #1
Jumbo was there to just...
- Speaker #0
To find a deal, exactly. You're right. Not to compete. So I hope they sign something because I really want that Jumbo was in France or in Europe or everywhere else. I think he deserves it. It's a very good movie and I hope the number 2 will come in one day. Jumbo number 2.
- Speaker #1
Ah, the sequel.
- Speaker #0
Exactly. We have some hot questions now. So can you tell me about this question before we finish? Thank you so much for listening to this podcast, by the way. It's the first episode. And don't hesitate to comment to put some great reviews on different podcast platforms. And also don't hesitate to ask new subjects you want to tackle. This podcast is about, of course, France and Indonesia. cultural differences etc so don't hesitate so i have some questions for you so is france indonesia
- Speaker #1
New strategic ally?
- Speaker #0
I think so and I hope so. I think France and Indonesia can be very good together and I saw that the deals they already signed are very interesting. And I think that Indonesia, especially in the place they live in Asia now, you have big superpowers around her, around Indonesia, and they need to find allies somewhere else to be sure to protect themselves, to protect their maritime space. to protect their lands. As you know, Indonesia is huge, 17,000 islands, so it's not easy to protect everything. And we know that there is already some small fighting against some other countries, so it's very good, I think. Okay,
- Speaker #1
so is Indonesia balancing China, US with Europe?
- Speaker #0
I think so, and it's funny because Europe also does the same. I think Europe needs Indonesia, needs India, needs some countries around the world. Yeah, exactly. They need this country because, yeah, I think everybody in the world, since what happened recently, are tired of choosing between US and China. These two guys ask us to choose. We don't want to choose. So I think it's very good to have an alternative, and I think alternative can be Southeast Asia plus Europe. It's true. Oh,
- Speaker #1
okay. Do you think we'll have nuclear energy safes in the near future?
- Speaker #0
I hope so for AI, very, very hope so, because for me, AI will change everything. It's already the case, but people don't see really the wave happening. It's a huge wave and people need really to do something about it. And for nuclear, I hope so also, because I think when I saw the space, what Indonesia has in terms of potential, power, etc., I think nuclear will help the country to be less carbon. and to be less polluted in the big cities like Jakarta and maybe Surabaya also. So yeah, I think so.
- Speaker #1
Do you think the meetings is only about politics or it will be a real change?
- Speaker #0
I ask you this question first. Do you think it's a real change they will announce or just politics? Totally. Okay, so I need to answer. It's of course, it's politics. But it's also interesting because it's the 75th anniversary. I think these two countries have a lot in common and a lot of differences also, at the same time, as we do. And I think we can be very big. So yeah, thank you so much for listening to this podcast. Thank you, Saviolay, it was very nice. Thank you, RĂ©mi. Don't hesitate to review, to ask questions, to comment. Thank you so much and have a good day and see you next week.
