- Speaker #0
Hello and welcome to the Journal d'Endurance podcast. On September 26th and 29th, Arborea in Sardinia will host the World Championships for Young Horses and the European Championship for Young Riders. To mark the occasion, and in collaboration with Sardinia Endurance Festival, I'd like to offer you a series of episodes linked to this event. And to get things off to a good start, who better than the technical delegates to introduce us to the race? François Gerboule is a level 4 judge, a level 4 technical delegate and also the creator of ATRM timekeeping system. He shares some of his experience with us and explains his mission to this eagerly awaited championship. Have a good listen! Hello François, thank you for joining us today. To start, could you please tell us about yourself and your experience in endurance?
- Speaker #1
Well, it's a long experience. More than 30 years ago, when you have a child, children, three of them, you put them on horses and then your nail is in the machine and the entire body goes in. And 30 years... Later, you are an FEI official, very active. That's what happened to me. And it's a pleasure, but I didn't realize at the beginning that I wasn't this trend. So well, that's the way it is.
- Speaker #0
And you also create a timekeeping system?
- Speaker #1
Yes, but that was the same way of thinking. In life, considering a situation, you have only three possibilities. Let's take the example of the road. You are satisfied with the road, you're happy to drive on it. There's traffic jam, you've got a possibility to choose to go on another way. The third possibility is to start modifying the road, the first one. That's what I did. I was not satisfied about what... timekeeping men in endurance with wristwatches and several lines, everything done by hand, etc. So I decided that we had to do something and this started the story of ATRM 25 years ago. At the beginning, people told me, look, we don't need it. We know how to do it by hand. It was a luxury. Well, just forget it. Today, 25 years later, it's unthinkable to have an important competition without an automatic timekeeping. Yes. So that's the ATRM. Okay.
- Speaker #0
So we are going to see you as technical delegates next September at the Sardegna Endurance Festival in Italy for the World Championship for Young Horses and the European Championship for Young Riders. Arborea has already hosted the Young Horses for Championship in 2021. Could you describe the track for us?
- Speaker #1
Yes, well, first it is situated in the south-west of Arborea. It starts, the venue is included in the resort, which will... have their 50th anniversary. It was built 15 years ago. It's a beautiful place. They receive every year 1,000 guests, which means that it is a huge place in a beautiful garden. Well, we've got the place to do everything correctly, including an amphitheater for the trike giving ceremony, etc. All the tracks start from here. It's a very... It's a sensitive place because it's dedicated, fully dedicated to breeding and agricultural matters. They have three crops a year. It's all artificially watered with the water coming from a dam. So it is very, very sensitive. And we go with the tracks between all the lot, which are all of them 300 meters by 100 meters. And we go. It looks like something which is very straight with the right angles, but on the ground it is quite different. But in fact, going to the seaside also, well, we're crossing a harbor of small boats, fishing boats, etc. What is very attractive, and in terms of... Well, it's completely flat, but I, integrally flat, but that's not the problem because it's really a good track for the food. It's made of sand, it's not muddy, you're going in different places including the pines. So well, I took pleasure to visit this and I think that, well I hope that all the riders will enjoy. The organizing committee is really... We are keen to have something very well done and we are still four months or something in advance and the work is progressing. So I think that we will achieve something very, very interesting and nice.
- Speaker #0
Could you tell us what is your mission, the mission of the technical delegate?
- Speaker #1
Well, the technical delegate is someone who needs... to have an eye on everything. Well, first, the technical dedicate has full power on the ride. Until it's satisfied, there is no possibility to have the ride going off. Well, for the moment, well, let's say it's a different path. My own checklist contains 1,200 lines, which means quite a lot of things. For instance, you go to the stables, you've got to see where they are, the size of the boxes, the size of the grids of each box, how is it done, the lock, is it secure, the light, the ventilation, the effluent, the manure collection, etc. So ventilation, even in some countries, air conditioning, as in Budim, for example. So, this is all things you have to manage, check with the organizer. For the tracks, you've got to make sure that you have the right distance corresponding to what is announced, that everything is well marked. in a way that people are not surprised or missing it. So this is why I'm enforcing something which is in three steps. You've got the first arrow telling you that you will turn on the right. Then you have the arrow to tell you to turn on the right. And then you've got a third one telling you that this is the right direction. You didn't miss it. Because it's not always easy. I know of... various championships where people were just going straight from the track, not because it was not well marked, but because they missed it. And then you got to mark every danger, know where the crew points, water points are, in the correct regulatory distances. You got to check every... every danger places because you have some of them and you need to tell the people during the briefing because the TD is the one leading the briefing and then you have the start, well the connection between the stable. And the warming area, is it safe enough, wide enough? Is there light? Because we've got to set up when we start and when we finish in order to have the maximum daylight during the competition because this is the safe moment of the day. You've got to organize it in such a way that every horse is before entering the warming area. is checked, the tack is checked, they're not going to enter in every place. Then the start, for the finish, it is the same. You need to have something you see wide enough, which is well organized, not putting the judges in danger, for instance. And with a run out long enough. for the horses sprinting to slow down safely and not bumping into a barrier. Then you've got to organize the whole recovery area in a way that there is doesn't clog and the vetting area and all these have to be carefully organized in order to have the control of all the flows because otherwise if people are crossing all the time in the venue, it doesn't work correctly. So this is Part of the job, but you've got also to organize all the briefing, all the schedule, the inner schedule, etc. Let's say and check for the FEI and so on. This is what part of the job. It's a long one, difficult one, but interesting. And the background, professional background helps a lot.
- Speaker #0
Okay, I understand why there are so many lines in your checklist. Does your experience at ERM or as an official enhance your skill as a technical delegate?
- Speaker #1
Well, I would say that having different CAPs I've been an organizer for 10 years. Timekeeping is another way of seeing the sport, etc. Of course it helps, but for a technical delegate, what helps me much more than anything is my professional background. Because as an architect, you have to lead people all the time, organize, design, and be able to convince people. When you have the building site, you've got your visits, you've got to solve the problems, you've got to organize the interaction of the people, etc. So when you have a building with 25 different enterprises, for instance, intermixing all the time, you've got to check a lot of things. When you come to be a TD in endurance, well, I would say that compared to my job, it's just easy. Because it's so simple compared to what... building means. So that's the most important part in fact.
- Speaker #0
Okay. For the two championships in September, what average are we expecting on this track?
- Speaker #1
Well, we expect, well, it's always a guessing game to say that, but according to the average, well, something like 2021, depends of course of the weather. September is the moment when you have, you are supposed not to have any rain. But I remember organizing in my place a ride many years ago, and we had no rain in July except the day of the ride. So you never know what's going to happen. We would expect we are planning something like 2021.
- Speaker #0
Could you tell us if there are any particular considerations for the organizing committee, riders and horses when hosting a race near the seaside?
- Speaker #1
Well, no particular. It's always a question of relation between the climate and the weather. In some countries when it's very dry, very hot, you have some dehydration coming. This I remember in AMLO for instance. We had the water for the recovery comes from a well and the temperature of the water is 5 degrees. And people still go on putting ice on it, which leads to something which is the opposite of what they're looking for. Because you're just... reducing the heart rate, and then when you come to the vetting area, to the inspection, then the heart rate goes up again, and people say, well, but the heart rate machine doesn't work. And in fact, that's the whole process leads to this. So it's more the behavior of people than the place where you do it. But the VET, the Foreign VET and the President's VET Commission during the briefing are warning people trying to say this is what you have to do or not to do. But being at the seaside, well, it's... Not really something very special.
- Speaker #0
Is there the possibility of situation in which a technical delegate can cancel a race if your checklist is not validated, can cancel the start? Well,
- Speaker #1
you remember that the last World Championship for senior, the one before the coming Montpazier, was cancelled in Verona. It was postponed, they reopened the bid and then it was done early, what it was in March 2023, was done in Guttib, UAE. Well, why? Because there were really a lot of problems and the technical delegate went there six times and it was absolutely impossible to make it. It would have been certainly a disaster. So the board of the FEI decided, with all the elements, including the reports of the TD, to cancel the competition and to reopen the bid. to get another case. So this is a very important job because it's very rare, but it happens. Okay. Well, this time I must say that with these organizing committee. We're just working hand in hand. And the job of the technical leader is not strictly to control. It is to help, to guide, sometimes to lead. And in order to achieve together a good competition, a fantastic championship. And we're on the way to do it in Arborea.
- Speaker #0
And I'm pretty sure it will be great. In which country? traveled for endurance as an official or for ATRM.
- Speaker #1
Well, I can't be due to conflict of interest. The FBI considers there is a conflict of interest. So I cannot be an official when ATRM is working. This is why I'm not active in France. I'm always everywhere. Well, ATRM is going to China, to many places. I am going to... traveling to many, many places. The last year I attended all the championships and plus others, so I'm traveling many places. Within five days I will be in Estonia and so on. So, well, that is a good experience. And we can see that 80, 90% of what is taking place in different places is the same. But of course we have different local ways of doing riders too. In the Emirates, well, they go very fast, but their tracks are quite flat. In other places like Florac, well, you can't do this because it's in the mountain. In places like Argentina in August, it's almost freezing. So that's all different things. It's different from jumping, which has always the same little square, almost the same everywhere in the world. This is the difficulty of endurance.
- Speaker #0
I think this is what makes this sport rich as well. Of all the races you have experienced, which one stands out as your favorite?
- Speaker #1
Well, I've got no favorites because every ride in 30 years brings you something totally unthinkable and un... Hurt. I've got some... what remains is when you had almost a disaster. Because this is something, you know, when the railway is traced from the tracks, you have a big title in the newspapers, but not when they come at the right time. So this is what I keep in my mind. The worst one was probably... The worst experience, one of the worst, was on a ride, very, very bad weather and ill-minded people were removing all the marches. It was in a forest, protected forest, and they even locked the barriers with new padlocks. because he didn't want to hear about Andrews. So after, on the second loop, after 20 minutes, all the 60 riders came back on the reverse way because they couldn't go anywhere. And even the one opening the track was lost. So when you see them coming back, that's the worst thing that you can imagine. But well, you've got to, then you've got to find a solution. And you have no time for doing this and you need to be aware of all the rules, all the possibilities for safety first. And then how can we go on the track? In this experience we send the riders almost immediately on the third loop. This gave us time to consider what we could do to save the race.
- Speaker #0
Okay. So they finished the race?
- Speaker #1
Well, at that time it was shortened by one loop because it was absolutely impossible to save the entire thing. So you have an FNR which is finished, not ranked. It means that the riders and horses are qualified for the distance they have run, but they are not ranked. They are not classified. There is no first, second, etc. But they've got the qualification, even if they have made the distance corresponding to a qualification. So this is what happened in the worst cases.
- Speaker #0
Where was this place?
- Speaker #1
Well, it was in France, a long, long time ago. A ride which has disappeared now.
- Speaker #0
Okay.
- Speaker #1
But it was very unfortunate.
- Speaker #0
Could you share with us a good memory, the better one?
- Speaker #1
Yes, well, generally. I don't have any better one, really. It's just when we have no accidents, when we have no incidents, when everyone finishes on time and they're qualified and they're happy, well, that's the best we can hope. And I must say that... The small rides are quite often the nicest ones because it's just a family game. This is true in Brazil, this is true in Chile, this is true in Malaysia, this is true in France, or in Spain, etc., or in Belgium. Otherwise, you can't have the same atmosphere when you are on a world championship because then the stakes are high and it's completely different. So we've got two different endurance rides. But I must say that sometimes it's good and relaxing to be on small rides. Okay. But I've got no preference really. I've got good memories of everywhere in the world.
- Speaker #0
Is there a race that you will remember for a very long time?
- Speaker #1
Of course, some of them come. I must say I've been many, many times in Malaysia, in Terengganu, where we had the World Championship in 2008. There are night rides. It starts at 5 p.m. and ends in the morning. This is something that creates a very, very special atmosphere. And they go in the forest. Well, we've got a lot of possibilities of safety, etc. Since the king is part of the game, you've got a lot of safety features, the army is there, police, etc. Well, I must say that maybe the ones I prefer, but unfortunately, Shaymaddin, my good friend and who organized all this, has passed away two years ago and now, well, they have a bit more difficulties, but they still start again. Well, this is probably one of the best memories I have.
- Speaker #0
Okay. Why they had the difficulties to organize? You say that they had difficulties now to- Yeah,
- Speaker #1
well, No, because everything was running on the tracks, you know, and then suddenly the one who was in charge of all this is not there anymore. So you've got to reorganize. And that was a bit of a shamble. Now it's coming back.
- Speaker #0
Okay. Because for this event, it needs a very lot of person who works to organize the race.
- Speaker #1
Well, you need a lot of people to organize. It's always the most difficult part is probably, well, we've got two different things. The first is get money to organize, which is not an easy job, and then get the volunteers to run the whole thing. You know, when you are in the crossroad and you've got to wait the whole day for people playing. the game of endurance. It's not a very easy job. You must be really friend or kin or part of the game also. I remember in Houston Park where for the last European Championship I was technical delegate and in the briefing, as I did recently in Hermelot, I said, look, remember that all those rides will not be possible without the people waiting for you the whole day. Well, stopping the cars or stopping you because they don't have the right to give priority to the cars, etc. And I told the people, look, you could, you have just a smile, acknowledge their presence because it's a very, very difficult job, in fact, not rewarding at all. Okay. So, in your, in your, in your, in your, in your, in your, in your, in your, in your, in I had a debriefing with all these people and they said, well, we should have a prize of the nicest theme because they were all waving, smiling, saying thank you, which cost nothing, but it's just acknowledging this unrewarding job.
- Speaker #0
Okay, I see. Is there anything else you would like to add before we wrap up?
- Speaker #1
Yes. Well, the commentator. The sound systems are very important because the problem with endurance is that we run endurance rides and when you talk to people they say, well, what is it? Where is it? I've never heard of this because it's very difficult to put on television, etc. They don't have the money for that. So, It's important to have, for instance, a web radio, what you're doing also, podcasts, and all these kind of things to spread the good news, if I may say so, because I'm sure that a lot of people would be... absolutely passionate with this sport as we are but they don't know it yet so we've got to tell them and the commentator on the venue if it is relayed by a web radio or something it's good if we have videos if we have TV live etc And we need commentators in France, for instance. If you have not Hervé, well, there is no right, almost. It's so important because just give life to it. And that's something we need to develop because we have to talk to others. We can talk to ourselves, but that's what we know. But what's important is to talk to the others. And we don't have much money in insurance. So this is something that we need to develop. which according to me is very important.
- Speaker #0
Yes, I agree. I think the media coverage of our sports is a really important issue. Thank you very much for this interview. We look forward to seeing you at the Sardinia Endurance Festival in September.
- Speaker #1
As well, I hope we will have, I'm not, I don't hope, I'm sure that we will have a beautiful championship, European championship and world championship because the organizing committee has the will. and the capacity to do it. And I'm here as a technical delegate to help them, to guide them eventually. That's all. But they do the job, and I know that this job is quite difficult, and more difficult when it is a championship. So let's hope for the best, and, well, see you in September. I must add something also to the riders and to the teams and to the federations that... It is not difficult to reach Arborea. It's in an island, but it's very simple. You go from the mainland, from many places, you can have the boat, the ferry, and the organizer has reached the agreement with the 40% discount, which means that it is not very expensive. You go on the website, which will be displayed in a few days, And then you have all the information. But come, come, come. That's what I've got to say.
- Speaker #0
So there is really no reason not to come to the island, either to ride or to admire these championships. Thank you very much.
- Speaker #1
Thank you. Thank you too.
- Speaker #0
This first episode is finished and I hope you've learned about the importance of the technical delegates. As you can imagine, we are looking forward to seeing you in September at Arboria. See you soon!
