Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Hello and welcome to the show La Clé de Voute. I am Audrey Karsalade, coach, author and female doctor. I help entrepreneurs from the New World to develop their business, feet on the ground and head connected to the stars. On a Monday, alone or accompanied by an guest, we walk powerful and unique life paths. Des réflexions vers une nouvelle vision du mot entreprendre en participant à l'éveil des consciences. La clé de voûte, le trait d'union entre le monde visible et invisible de l'entrepreneur conscient de ses actions et à l'écoute de son intuition. Bonjour à tous, cette semaine je suis ravie d'accueillir Beata Alfoldi et Martin... Thompson, we're going to talk about healthy relationships in couples and their vision of masculine and feminine sacred. In short, a fascinating subject. Let me introduce you in less than a minute these two speakers. Beata Alfoldi is a medical woman, she is a spiritual guide, she is an author, she is a conference speaker, she works in sound healing and she does retreats internationally and is extremely well known, especially in Australia. C'est la personne qui m'a formée. with a powerful and rooted medicine in shamanic art. His partner is Martin Thompson, who is a coach, psychotherapist, and he also accompanies people in micro-dosing and in therapeutic psychedelics. He also organizes retreats, and he's an old elite kickboxer with many medals at the club. So why talk here in this podcast about relationships? Because relationships with others... They start with the relationship we have with ourselves, what we authorise, what we don't authorise, what we recognise, the love we have for each other, the personal power. And I liked to observe these two beings who not only love each other with deep respect, but also work together every day. And I wanted to ask them questions about what a healthy relationship is for them, what makes them feel carried in their full potential. What is the sacred masculine and feminine for women and also for men? Because finally, in any case on this podcast, maybe we don't give enough word to men and I really wanted a man to talk to me about his feminine and his sacred masculine and how he really felt rooted in his full personal power by being in a relationship with a woman that I really think is very powerful and who assumes her personal power. So here I am, I'm delighted. d'accueillir aujourd'hui Martine et Beata et j'espère de tout cœur ce podcast vous inspirera. Belle écoute à tous. Bonjour Beata, bonjour Martine.

• Speaker #1

  Hello Audrey.

• Speaker #2

  Hello Audrey.

• Speaker #0

  Cet été, j'ai eu le plaisir de participer à l'une de vos retraites et l'occasion de parler d'amour et de vous observer dans votre relation. Et je vous écoutais parler tous les deux en disant que c'était la première fois que vous viviez une relation qui vous amenait à vibrer pleinement votre plus... haut potentiel. Et j'avais envie de creuser la question. Alors déjà, est-ce que c'est exact que cette relation vous amène dans ce qu'on appelle le plus haut potentiel?

• Speaker #1

  Definitely.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. We both feel that.

• Speaker #1

  Both of us feel this in our connection very strongly.

• Speaker #0

  Complètement. Nous avons tous les deux une connexion très forte l'un pour l'autre. Beata, j'avais envie de savoir qu'est-ce qui fait, qu'est-ce qui te fait dire qu'auparavant tu n'étais pas soutenue dans ton plein potentiel et qu'est-ce qui fait qu'aujourd'hui... you realise that you are supported in your full potential. Because to know you, I know that you are a powerful woman who takes all your space and all your aura. So what makes you say today, what makes you see this major difference?

• Speaker #1

  I think most importantly, I also had a subconscious, unconscious belief that I would not be supported with the masculine in a partnership. if I was fully in my highest potential.

• Speaker #0

  First of all, Beata recognized that she had a belief in her subconscious that made her think that she would not be supported by the masculine in an intimate relationship if she was in her full potential, if she let her full potential be expressed.

• Speaker #1

  So because it was such an unconscious belief, I continued to attract that in my relationships, so I would... attract relationships, not all of them, but the majority of these relationships where I really didn't feel that I was able to shine. And if I was shining, then on some level, my partner at the time would feel threatened.

• Speaker #0

  So because of this belief, Beata attracted, not all of them, partners who didn't let her express her full potential. And if she did, it would generate tension, fear and a form of threat for her partner.

• Speaker #1

  inner belief and did a lot of work around that. And then Martin and I, of course, started off with a very, very beautiful friendship. And we continued to cultivate that first.

• Speaker #0

  So Beata did a lot of introspection on this subject. And Martin entered his life, at first, as a form of friendship. And if today they are partners, they remain very good friends and they maintain this relationship as well.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, before I share, I want to hear, you know, what are some of the ways when they felt threatened, what did they do? What was the behavior?

• Speaker #1

  Well, the behavior from a lot of the relationships that I was in would be that on some level you would be put down or you would be pushed down or silenced or in some way not celebrated.

• Speaker #0

  And Martine asks him, but finally, what was it like in terms of behaviour in everyday life? It was a way, Beata responds, it was a way of feeling small,

• Speaker #1

  reduced or simply not recognized or valued. everything that we are, not only our deep vulnerability and our sensitivities.

• Speaker #0

  And to add that it is important for us women to feel supported, but also celebrated, not only when we are in our vulnerable areas, but also our magnificence, our personal power and also the spaces of our anger.

• Speaker #1

  But also for the... our magnificence and our personal power and our volatility as well. You know, I think the first time I ever decided, oh, yes, this man is for me with Martin was one day when I was really upset with him and I was being very, very strong with him and so strong. And then all he did was take a breath. stand strong and I could feel that he anchored himself deeply, even deeper into his centre of being. And I could see that he wasn't moving. He wasn't running away. He wasn't reacting. He wasn't going anywhere. And I just thought, okay, I have someone who is definitely not afraid of me and definitely not going to run away when I show him how I'm really...

• Speaker #0

  He stayed there and it allowed him to express his anger or rage freely. I thank you, Beata, for talking about these unconscious beliefs. Because if we don't take it into account, we keep playing the same stories and attracting the same people and experiences in our lives. And behind that, potentially, we have a complaint approach to victimize ourselves. Whereas when we actually do the job... When we dive into ourselves, into our beliefs, into our injunctions, we realize that we can make changes in ourselves and that above all, the power is in us. The power of change belongs to us completely. It belongs to us to make the checklist of what suits us and what doesn't suit us, and to start emitting levers of change to attract things that suit us more, that are more aligned with what we want in our lives. Yes, exactly.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly.

• Speaker #0

  And you Martine, do you have the same feelings about your old relationships? The idea of course is not to say it was not paid before, it's better now, but simply to try to understand what makes this unique relationship so different and which lets you express your full potential and your full light.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, so for me, one of the biggest differences is I feel that I can actually show my light, my joy, my brilliance and be cherished for that. Like, I think the most important thing is safety. One, like, I feel safe with Beata. I feel safe in our connection. And a big part of that is first, we cultivated a friendship.

• Speaker #0

  The first thing is that Martin, he thinks it's the first time he can express his light, his joy, and that he can also feel in a space of full security. He feels safe with Beata. And one of the reasons is that they cultivated at the beginning,

• Speaker #2

  and that they continue to cultivate this deep friendship that they have for each other. So we showed all aspects of ourselves, you know, like just really brutally clear and raw and vulnerable and honest in front of each other. So that's how our relationship started. It was from that friendship.

• Speaker #0

  And the fact that their relationship started with friendship allowed them, they didn't try to seduce each other. They were as they were, they showed all their areas of vulnerability, all their palette of colors.

• Speaker #2

  without trying to seduce ourselves. And that's how it started. be intimate in that way, where we just wanted to spend time together. So what's different now compared to before was I remember in my... I have been married before, and I remember in my past marriage...

• Speaker #0

  And it's precisely because it was a friendly relationship, they didn't try to get... Martin says that often in a relationship it's a question of possessing the other. And there they just wanted to simply spend time together, and they were able to discover, once again... all the crazy sides of what they are. And Martin says he's already been married and that he remembers major differences from his previous relationship.

• Speaker #2

  story often I was feeling, oh, I was feeling guilty for being the way that I was or the way that I was behaving. So I did not feel appreciated for the way that I was showing up.

• Speaker #0

  And in her previous relationship, her partner told her that she felt left behind in the shadow, that he was moving very quickly and that he was in transformation and that she was a little less sick. And so he had this feeling of guilt, of showing himself as he was transforming into the world.

• Speaker #2

  And this is a big difference that I'm now feeling with Beata is that I feel cherished and appreciated for the way that I show up, for the way that I am. And one thing that I love in this connection is I can be completely myself.

• Speaker #0

  And this is something that has been completely changed with Beata. He can be himself, fully show himself in his best potential in the world. And what he loves in this particular connection with Beata, is to feel loved for what he is fully.

• Speaker #2

  And also, I know if there's any part of me that's not in truth and is not in alignment, this one, Beata, is going to call me out on it. And it's an opportunity for me to come into alignment. And really for me, that is living towards your highest potential is continue to shed the layers of untruth and step more into a path of truth and service to something greater than just me. One question that I ask on a daily basis is how can I serve? I ask Beate, how can I serve you today? I ask how can I serve this relationship? How can I serve my community? How can I serve? And I really feel this is something that's been expanded even more in this connection.

• Speaker #0

  And to add that he also knows that if a part of himself is no longer in his truth, in his full alignment, this person, and he speaks of Beata, will be in charge of making him notice. And it will be for him an opportunity to come and just be realigned. And that's it for him to live from his highest potential. It's to look at these shadows, these areas where we are not aligned to be fully in our truth. Also ask yourself the question of service. of something that is bigger than our being. And every morning, Martin wakes up and asks himself how can I serve? How can I serve Beata? How can I serve and serve my community? Thank you very much, Beata and Martin. For the next question, I heard a lot about the masculine and the feminine and the importance of finding the balance between this masculine and the masculine. and this feminine. And it makes me think of a phrase recently heard, « Les hommes faibles font des femmes fortes, les hommes forts font des femmes féminines. » And I would like to know what you think, both of you, of this phrase and of this balance between the feminine and the masculine. Because when I look at Beata, I see a very strong woman. And at the same time, I see a woman who embraces her femininity fully, that when we look at her on social media, she is sexy. And I have the impression, she gives the impression of embracing... all the parts of themselves, both the feminine and the masculine. And Beata, I'd like to let Martine speak first to answer this question.

• Speaker #1

  Can I answer that?

• Speaker #2

  Sure, I can begin. So one thing that I'm noticing in this relationship, and Beata has told me this as well, and the same goes for me, is we are both highly individual people and achievers. And in the past, we would do everything by ourselves, everything. And both, you know, we both cultivated a masculine and feminine energy within ourselves.

• Speaker #0

  So what Martin shares is that they have already built independently of each other, that they are two independent beings, and that they have had the habit of managing everything on their own. So they have sought their own balance between the feminine and the masculine.

• Speaker #2

  And how does that show up? You know, the masculine is very much about direction and creating the space around, the organization and... and the stability and the unmovedness. And where the feminine is about movement and creativity and it's about ideas and we had to cultivate both these aspects. But we're also doing all of them. And our chorus, my chorus is masculine and Biasa's chorus is generally feminine. So when we come together, we can relax back into...

• Speaker #0

  For him, the masculine energy is the energy of action, of organization, of doing. Whereas the feminine energy is the energy of creativity. It's a much more yin energy, much lighter, much more fluid. And they are able to do both because they are autonomous and they have grown up independently. But also, when they meet, Beata, she can be fully in her feminine energy.

• Speaker #2

  do the other part that she would normally have to force herself into so it means like she doesn't have to overexpand herself and the same for me in my ceremonies or in my work or in my daily life suddenly i get new inputs and new insights that i wouldn't have i get a different support that i that i don't have to step into a more feminine aspect of myself and i can remain in my masculine and martin takes the example of ceremonies or sometimes it's the ceremonies

• Speaker #0

  animated by Beata and sometimes it's the ceremonies animated by Martine. But in these two spaces, one comes to support the other. This means that, for example, for Beata, the fact that Martine is present now, she no longer has to manage the entirety of the ceremony. She can be in her zone of excellence and she doesn't need to go into force and take charge of the entire energy of the ceremony. And it's the same thing for Martine, who also, she's a very good person. can rest on Beata's feminine energy and can be fully in her genius zone and in her masculine. And this co-creation is also found, of course, in their everyday life, where Beata comes to give what he calls input, so the momentum, the idea, the energy or the creativity. And this will allow him to really stay fully in his masculine energy and to relax because he knows that there is an extraordinary complementarity.

• Speaker #2

  masculine and feminine what is it really what is it that people are experiencing with the masculine is like oh it's this grounded presence that's strong and just taking care of the outside space and then what happens inside with the singing and the magic and the creation of the altar and the the um the weaving of the space and what happens within the space that's that's the feminine That's what Beyazit is doing there, weaving that beautiful magic that she creates in the spaces that she comes in. Whether it's our home space or in a ceremonial space or in a one-to-one session, that's the beautiful magic that she creates. And for me that's the feminine.

• Speaker #0

  Tin wants to explain the difference between feminine and masculine energy so that everyone understands. Masculine energy is really the energy that is turned outward. very strong, very powerful anchoring. Whereas the feminine energy is rather this energy of magic, of interiority. When they are in ceremony, it is really everything that comes to create magic inside the space, whereas the masculine energy is there rather to put this space of security and put this space very anchored of external protection.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I agree with exactly what you're saying. I really see the feminine as the creative principle of life. It's that wild aspect of nature and everything that you see in nature. It's that highly energy that rips heads off, but it's also this loving, nurturing, beautiful, free, but wild energy. And for that energy to really flourish, the authentic and the true nature of the feminine, it loves to have that safety and that grounded presence of the container of the masculine, which is strong, it's grounded, and it supports the feminine to go even deeper into the mysteries of life.

• Speaker #0

  Beata, are you in agreement with Martine? really highlighting that this feminine energy is the principle of creation of life. It's the most wild aspect that we have in ourselves, but that we also see around in nature. This slightly crazy solar energy, but also this magnificent energy that nourishes, this energy of freedom. For all that is, for all that, and for this wild energy to flourish, it needs to feel a presence of security, of anchorage, like a... container, a guardian, this masculine container that will support the feminine to go even

• Speaker #1

  deeper in the discovery of the mysteries of life. so that she can shine and create and be the muse, actually.

• Speaker #0

  This energy really needs a rock of stability to allow itself to shine fully and to finally be a muse for man. And it will really allow him to bloom and to burst out of his most beautiful light. So it allows me to bounce. Are these women that we see, very masculine, very young, are they people who are missing around them? of a rock, of stability,

• Speaker #1

  of a container to be able to really shine and explode also this whole feminine part. For Beata,

• Speaker #0

  life needs to be balanced. And so often, when we see these masculine women who are really in this very masculine notion, they will have to be balanced. tendance,

• Speaker #1

  and that's also what happened for Beata, to attract men with a very feminine energy. is not balanced, then there will be no longer an attraction until both those individuals, the man and the woman, balance their inner masculine and feminine. Because we all know we each have an inner masculine and an inner feminine. And for me, in all the work that I specifically do with women, it's really coming into balance with that. that inner aspect so that we can meet the outer aspect when that time comes and if we're seeking a relationship but really you know it's about our connection with all of life so for me it's about bringing in that balance.

• Speaker #0

  and from this space to find our own balance first. And then, if we are looking for someone, to go and look for this complementarity, but already this complementarity is within us. And it is a work that Beata has been doing and proposing for many years, precisely to come and rebalance all this polarity between our feminine and our masculine. Thank you very much Beata. Martine, why do you think that some men are looking for to crush or to decrease the energy of certain women? Okay, there's probably fear, but could you, from your point of view, explain to us what will push a man to try to assuage, I don't know, but in any case, to decrease the energy of a woman?

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, it's a great question. What I'm feeling is most men are afraid of their own feminine nature, which is... It is nature, it is the wildness, it is emotions. And that's something that's been repressed and suppressed for so long in our world.

• Speaker #0

  That's a great question. Martine thinks that many men, through their education, have been brimmed in this wild, authentic side and in this freedom to express their emotions. It's therefore a space in which they are not necessarily at ease, even in which they can feel fear.

• Speaker #2

  So I think, and I can see that for myself, I was afraid of that aspect in myself. I remember the animal that I have representing my sacred feminine is a Leviathan, which is a giant sea monster. And it's a beautiful sea monster, but it's deep and it's gigantic and mysterious and wild. So, of course, if... I know for a lot of men, that's how we experience the feminine. It is that Kali structure that can be loving and beautiful in one moment, and the next moment can rip your head off.

• Speaker #0

  He himself experienced this fear by going to look for this animal that represented his feminine, which was an animal of depth, a marine animal, very, very big, very powerful. And for him, he... He associated that with Kali's energy, this energy that can be both soft,

• Speaker #2

  hyper-enveloping, and that can switch in an instant and behead you. of getting to know themselves, who they really are.

• Speaker #0

  And so they think that men who are not on the path of this full recognition of all aspects of themselves will unfortunately continue to oppress this feminine part of themselves inside and therefore, by way of ricochet, outside as well. And therefore, to their companions, to the women who surround them.

• Speaker #2

  So, until they start doing that journey inward, they'll continue to look outward and... they will fear what they also fear inside so they fear that power they feel that wildness they feel that and that mystery and that the feminine represents so when you see a woman who's shining and it's not afraid of that that's putting a light straight on back on them

• Speaker #0

  And so as long as they don't do the job of going inside themselves to find all these emotions, all this wild and authentic nature, they will continue to brim this feminine, luminous, solar energy, because it will send them a direct light inside themselves of the work they don't do, and of the emotions and of all this feminine part to which they are not connected by fear.

• Speaker #1

  So you will always, yeah, most people live, you know, externally. They fight externally what they're actually supposed to face internally.

• Speaker #0

  So I feel in this situation with Beate,

• Speaker #1

  it's like I love to see her shine. I love to see her magic, her beauty, her wildness. and of course it's scary sometimes when when when that kali energy comes up and the the dragon that just wants to breathe fire and burn everything down and but it also for me it's like an opportunity to really stand strong in my masculine and be the unmoved and to say hey i'm here i i want i want this i want to be with you i want to be in this connection i want to be with all of this because that is life I believe that they can start embracing the outer reality of the feminine.

• Speaker #0

  For him, the woman is really the physical manifestation of life. She gives life, and if he must summarize, the work begins by welcoming this part, and to come and work in oneself, all this ying, these emotions, and all this wild side that each man also has in him. Thank you very much to both of you. The next question is that I'm telling myself that... Maybe some people who are listening to us are wondering, in fact, what is a healthy relationship? How do we measure if, in the end, our relationship is healthy, according to you? And if you had maybe some advice, the word is absolutely horrible, but if you had some advice to see a little bit more clearly within our relationship, maybe the one for the next one.

• Speaker #2

  Great question. Well, for me, a healthy relationship. is where first and foremost both people feel seen, heard and cared for.

• Speaker #0

  Pour Beata, une relation saine pour chacun des deux parties, c'est une relation où on est vu, entendu et où la personne prend soin de l'autre.

• Speaker #2

  That they are cherished for who they are. There is no gaslighting, you know, when a person speaks about something that is going on for them in the relationship, that the other person makes time to listen, to be present.

• Speaker #0

  Elle parle aussi du fait de se sentir chérie, aimée, et que lorsque l'un des deux en a besoin, que l'autre puisse prendre du temps pour écouter ce qui se passe, ce qui se joue pour elle ou ce qui se joue pour lui au sein de la relation.

• Speaker #2

  but that the other creates space for this person so that they can be listened to and heard. that might be affecting the relationship and choose to work on them.

• Speaker #0

  And also that both parties are on the same path, that is to say that they do an inner work, not necessarily the same, that they do not necessarily choose the same path, but that each of them can do the work of the shadow parts. And she presumes that all the people who listen to this podcast feel concerned by this notion of path, but that each can effectively work on their own shadow areas that could affect in one way or another the relationship in itself.

• Speaker #2

  And. The other thing for me that I think is a healthy relationship is where you feel very seen and safe and supported, not only within the relationship, but in the pursuit of your dreams.

• Speaker #0

  And for her, a very important notion in this notion of healthy relationship is the fact of being supported, seen and also supported, encouraged inside the couple, but also in the pursuit of your dreams. and your desire for accomplishment.

• Speaker #2

  And, you know, and that you talk about things with each other before you go and do what most women do, which is gossip to their girlfriends. Oh, my boyfriend is not doing this, or my husband is not doing this. And it's like, well, if you're continuously going outside of the relationship to complain about the relationship, you're... already dishonoring the connection with your beloved. And here we're talking about the masculine and feminine. So it's a heterosexual relationship. Already you have dishonored your man. Or if it's a man, you've already dishonored your woman by going outside of the relationship to share with others what the problems are, where the only person that can change that relationship is you and the other person.

• Speaker #0

  She also insists on this notion of ragot, gossip, which is rather a feminine energy, the fact of going to complain to the outside for a problem that finally concerns the couple and hoping that the outside comes to find a solution. And she also speaks of a lack of respect finally vis-à-vis of her partner, whatever, in relation to the fact of going to expose to the outside something that should be able to be settled inside and how could it be settled if we do not speak to the concerned person.

• Speaker #2

  So I think that's vitally important and that's what I primarily mean by safety as well, that you know that you are held in high regard no matter what is going on in the relationship, that you work together as best friends to sort that out or you go and see a therapist and place, you know, and process things with your therapist because the relationship should not also be a therapy ground. Then it becomes just all about work. Of course, you have to go through processes together, but there's got to be an equal amount of fun and excitement and play and sexiness and new experiences as well as a commitment to each other.

• Speaker #0

  And it's also in the notion of when she talks about security, the fact that you are highly respected by your partner, no matter what happens in the couple. and no matter what we go through, and also know that it is also his best friend and confidant. And that in case of problems, both must make the way, both must do the work. That eventually we can go and see an external help, a psychoanalyst or a couple therapist, but that the commitment must be the same. And that we must not forget that in the relationship there is also this notion of friendship, of sexuality, of joy, of fun, and of best friends, which is an integral part.

• Speaker #2

  And your own individual path. And I think that's also very important that men and women do not lose their own interests, their own friendships, the things that they love to do, that there is a healthy balance between intimacy and space and freedom. I don't mean freedom to be with other people because we've chosen to be in a monogamous relationship. but the freedom to be who you are and to have friendships outside of the relationship that support and nurture not only you, but the connection.

• Speaker #0

  And also to have personal spaces, personal development spaces, friendships that are outside the relationship to be able to feed you. They chose a monogamous relationship, so they have this commitment, but yet everyone has the freedom to have friends. to have passions, things that are specific to their own internal and personal development.

• Speaker #2

  Because it's also important that friends that you have in your life, because if those friends also don't support the relationship, eventually it will poison the relationship.

• Speaker #0

  And it's also important to have friends because they can also come and support the relationship rather than come and create poison and distortions inside the couple.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, there's a lot of different things that go into it. For me, the most important thing is friendship. It's the foundation. That's the foundation. And that's how our relationship started out. It was just a friendship. For one and a half years, we knew that I like this person. I just want to hang out with them. I just want to spend time with them. And I see so many people, when they start a connection, they are going for fireworks.

• Speaker #0

  No surprise, Martine is valid about what Beata just said. And on En Chérie, we really talk to him about the importance of friendship in their relationship, which lasted for a year and a half, and the fact that they simply wanted to be together and spend time together, to learn to discover each other well before the relationship transforms. And he says that often people in a relationship, when they start, they are looking for the fireworks, something passionate, exciting, very... very volcanic or very strong.

• Speaker #1

  They're going for that excitement. You know, it has to feel like cocaine or, you know, like a drug. And if it's not, it's not the right thing. But when you have a friendship, it doesn't feel like that. It is something that grows over time. Like an oak tree, it grows very slowly, but it sets deep roots. And it grows very strong and very firmly.

• Speaker #0

  So that's something...

• Speaker #1

  you can look for to know that if it's a healthy relationship, this is something that's growing slowly. If you can compare it to past relationships, it may not have been as much fireworks as past relationships, but just continues to deepen in warmth, in love, in gratitude, in connection. That is a very good sign for me that this is a healthy relationship.

• Speaker #0

  And if we go back to the advice of knowing if it's a healthy relationship, maybe look at... with regard to these past relationships, and to see if this relationship may start more calmly, but that it is rooted much more, that it is built as time goes by, maybe with less precipitation, maybe less flames and fireworks, but on a form of durability.

• Speaker #1

  That's like number one. What can help, I think it's really important that both people come into this as a whole, meaning they've already done some work on themselves. they've already brought aspects of themselves back you know shadow aspects they've done work with therapy or shamanism or some other practices that so they are in somewhat wholeness because it requires a lot of consciousness to be in a conscious relationship it's easy to get sidetracked and by past wounding and Past wounding, so past wounds, like shadow aspects that's been created from experiences when you're younger. Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  like pain, like past pain.

• Speaker #1

  So until you heal those and bring those aspects of you back to the here and now, those will continue to create havoc and destruction. And being in a relationship, those things will get triggered.

• Speaker #0

  For Martine, it's important to come together, to work on these dark areas. on these childhood traumas by psychology or by shamanism, because it requires a lot of conscience to be a couple that evolves in conscience. And for him, it's easy to be distracted by these old traumas that often date from childhood and to finally come and reproduce certain patterns in his current relationship.

• Speaker #1

  And so, like Beyaz has shared, it's really important that you feel safe. and when you feel safe these things will automatically come up and it may not be in the relationship that you work them out most often i would recommend finding someone who's impartial someone who's neutral like a therapist that can help you work through these things and that's really important so that comes to responsibility whenever someone, whenever either Beate and I are sharing something like what happened here really made me sad or angry, we both look at it, we both take responsibility for the situation. And that's super key to having a healthy relationship. It's like, and that's, you know, that's again, we move beyond gaslighting. It's like she tells me and I may have nothing to do with it, maybe just something that's happening for Beate or something that's just happening for me. But still, I'm still going to have a look and see what is my part in it. What is my responsibility in her feeling this way?

• Speaker #0

  She points out that it is essential to feel safe in your relationship. And that sometimes it is necessary to call on someone impartial like a therapist. And also to take responsibility within the couple. When one of the two comes to express an emotion, when something happens to one, that each of the two parties takes full responsibility for his acts, his actions, his thoughts or his words. Even when the other feels an emotion and we haven't done anything, in any case, we're not directly involved, we can always come and ask ourselves the question, so what happened? What did I not do? And what makes them feel...

• Speaker #1

  When something is happening, I know I'm going to take my responsibility and I know Beate is going to take her responsibility. And then we work it out by ourselves. And then we come back together and we're like, this is what we want. You know, we talk about what do we want? Okay, this is what we want. Okay, what's happening here is not what we want. Okay, but we want this. So we focus, continuously focus on what we want and work out the things that are not in alignment. So our relationship.

• Speaker #0

  so that everyone can sit down and think, and then they talk about it. And they work to make it work. For them, being in a relationship is a choice, and a choice that we maintain. And for him, the fact that the responsibility is shared is such a relief. They are really always focused, when something happens in their relationship, on what they really want. What is it, finally? What are their expectations in relation to... their couple and maintain this level of what I want, what I expect from this couple, what we expect from this couple. And the fact of having these exchanges and these discussions also allows us to highlight everything that is not aligned, everything that finally disturbs their relationship. And that obviously allows us to come back to align what they want and what they are the result of their choice in the end.

• Speaker #1

  We've had many choice points. Do we want to continue with this connection? There was a lot of things in the beginning that was really challenging. And we continue to have to, like, there was a few times we looked at each other like, do we still want this? And we're like, yeah, we want this. This is something we want to continue to be and experience and explore. And it really felt like a choice. And I know that unconscious relationships or relationships in the past, I may have... thought that i had a choice but i really didn't have a choice i did not feel like i had a choice i would just even when i said to myself oh this relationship is not for me anymore i would find myself back in it one or two weeks later and you know repeat that cycle until it was you know just became too much and i don't feel that here it's like you know we make a choice and then we're actually working through whatever is causing the challenge in the relationship and that happens fast we're both on a really strong path of growth because we're both committed one and first for and for and most importantly to the relationship to I'm committed to Beata and I'm committed to myself.

• Speaker #0

  And Martin really insists on the importance of choice, of commitment. Because at the beginning they have had a lot of challenges within their couple and at times they still know each other. But each time they always come back to this notion of choice. And when he talks about his previous relationships, he said that he wanted to have the choice, but in the end he didn't really have it. He always came back to this relationship until it became unbearable or that it was too much for him. And there, really, both of them are engaged. Both of them want to experience this relationship. And so, they really talk and insist heavily on the fact that they make a choice in consciousness, which was much less the case in their previous relationships. And that also, it's been years that they work to become more conscious, that they do a personal work, one like the other. They talk about growth, but internal growth, to be more conscious and present within the relationship, and with themselves in the first place, obviously.

• Speaker #1

  So I think that's a really important thing. So friendship, commitment to personal growth and cultivating your witness, your ability to be the observer. Because otherwise, and I think it's like Aktole who talks about this, one person's consciousness can only meet the other person once they're ready to be. in their I am, in their center of presence. It's so easy to get lost in old patterns and become reactive because of past experiences that carry emotional weight, and then you're lost.

• Speaker #0

  So for him, to sum up, friendship in the first place, commitment to personal work, personal development, and also cultivating this faculty and his ability to be an observer. to see what's going on inside, to develop more awareness about oneself, about one's habits, potentially one's old traumas, and to be more aware within the couple. Because she says it's quite easy to be reactive about old relationships, to have patterns or traumas about old relationships, and when the person starts saying something, all of a sudden it's like a kind of feedback. And you become reactive because you have the impression of reliving certain scenes, when you don't have the same person in front of you, and you're not the same either. You've evolved as well.

• Speaker #1

  So learning to have some kind of practice that brings you back to presence, and having that, both of us have a strong meditation practice, and I think that's really important. And it can be meditation or dance or breath work or journaling, whatever it is, but something that brings you back to your center too. like out of the drama of life is so important because then you can actually see the stories that you're creating or the dramas that you're creating and that is important because otherwise you were never going to clean them up.

• Speaker #0

  And when Martin talks about being in an observer state, in relation to oneself, to be in a state of witness to one's own emotions, to what plays in oneself, it goes through practices such as... meditation, everything that will allow you to be in the present moment. So meditation, breastwork, intuitive writing, dance, and both practice meditation, of course, in addition to having rituals within shamanism. And it really allows you to take a step back and to be in the observation of your own emotions and also to return to the present moment and to what is played for you. Beata, do you want to add something to what Martin just said?

• Speaker #2

  The last thing I'd love to say is that it's so important that people are also aware what their attachment style is, whether they have a secure attachment, whether they're insecure, whether they're disordered, whether they can be detached. Because in knowing how you're going to be within the context of a relationship, depending on your family of origin story. will also support both of you when things get triggered, as they always do in the relationship space.

• Speaker #0

  Beata highlights the importance of being aware of these attachment mechanisms, the attachments that secure us and, on the contrary, the modes of functioning that make us insecure or in a non-security zone, but also everything that creates a form of dissociation in us, which is potentially linked to our family. et ce qui a pu se passer durant l'enfance et qui viennent de se jouer dans la relation parce que ça peut être d'une aide précieuse pour justement construire et avancer dans cette relation.

• Speaker #2

  Um, so that's what I would love to say. And I agree with Martin. I think building a very, very healthy and solid friendship has got to be the basis of all relationships because it's that friendship that will get you by when things are going tough, because you can always come back to your best friend and go, Hey, things are, we're really struggling right now in terms of the intimate relating space. However, because we're best friends, because we're deeply committed to the integrity of the friendship, there is always that to fall back to when things get very, very strong and go, hey, there's a huge level of respect when there is a very deep friendship that has been cultivated within the connection. And it doesn't always have to be that you've cultivated that before the intimate space. But certainly, even during that space where you're in a relationship, cultivate a good friendship as well. Make sure you do activities together that you both love and learn to laugh.

• Speaker #0

  And Beata comes back to this fundamental importance for her to be the best friends in the world. Because when things come to play that can be challenging in the intimate space, we can come back to the other or to the other from this space of friendship by explaining what is happening and what is challenging. Yeah. or what happens in the intimate space. And so, from this space, discuss like best friends to find solutions in this intimate space. And also, don't forget to cultivate this friendship, to have things that we share together, and above all,

• Speaker #1

  don't forget to laugh together. we're like what I told Beata she's the youngest and the oldest person that I know like super wise and super playful like I never experienced anything like that she's my favorite person you know that's that's another thing if you want to be in a really good relationship find someone and you can say this is my best friend my favorite person because for me that's also the first time I'm experiencing that in a relationship is like I find Beata to be the my favorite person ever. Like, she's my best friend, my best playmate, the best lover, the best everything. And I would not, I never imagined that to be possible. So I didn't think that my partner could also be my best friend. And I think that's something that's really like, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  And Beata, too, about the fact of laughing. And so Martin rebounds by saying that for him, Beata is the oldest and the youngest person he knows. And so he's like, And it's the first time he's really experimented with this notion of being his best friend. And maybe it can be a piece of advice if it tells you to try to find your best friend and who also becomes the person you're going to have intimacy with, also a person with whom you're going to be able to play, laugh and share the best things. And it's the first time he's experimented with that, where he finds that it's his... In fact, he says it's his favorite person in the world with whom he loves to spend time.

• Speaker #2

  And I think it's important because we also weren't naturally each other's type. No. You know, that's why we couldn't see each other in that way, because it's just we weren't each other's type at all. And so I think sometimes when people have that very strong attraction straight away, we have to be careful it's not a trauma bond.

• Speaker #0

  And Beata said that at the beginning they weren't especially attracted to each other, it wasn't really their type. And that... And that's how this relationship was created, because of friendship in the first place, because they didn't even think about being together, because it wasn't mutually their style. And that's also maybe a warning to have when you really have a crush on a person, to be careful, to see if it's not an old trauma that comes bouncing and makes us choose this person.

• Speaker #2

  And that that attraction is not based on trying, on an unconscious aspect of self-trying. to heal a wound and just playing out the same story with a different person again and again and again, because it's the energetic threads. If we look at all the energetic threads of all of our relationships, we can see what we were healing, what we were working out. Was it a mother wound, a father wound? Where did we need to meet ourselves fully in that intimate space?

• Speaker #0

  Et de regarder justement si cette relation n'est pas une reproduction d'anciennes relations et qu'on vient finalement venir guérir quelque chose et qu'on vient répéter, répéter encore et encore la même histoire parce que dans cette relation, on est là pour guérir quelque chose, que ce soit du côté paternel ou maternel, mais donc de bien faire attention à ça, lorsqu'on a une relation et lorsqu'on regarde ces anciennes relations, d'observer quelle partie on est venu guérir parce que lorsqu'on n'a pas fait le travail, Et peut-être même encore, parfois, on vient juste guérir une partie de nous-mêmes. Et on le fait au sein de cette relation. Et c'est pour ça qu'au bout d'un moment, elle ne peut pas forcément perdurer. Merci beaucoup d'avoir abordé ce sujet parce que l'idée de ce podcast, effectivement, est que peut-être ça viendra parler à des personnes qui ont l'impression de souffrir de dépendance affective dans une relation ou au contraire, peut-être d'autres personnes qui n'arrivent pas à rentrer en relation. Et j'aborde une notion qu'on partage, cette notion de reprendre sa puissance personnelle, d'avoir le courage de travailler sur ses parts d'ombre, d'être l'observateur, de regarder pourquoi on est sans arrêt attiré par les mêmes personnes, pourquoi on va reproduire sans arrêt les mêmes schémas, pour se donner l'opportunité justement de comprendre qu'est-ce qui vient se jouer en nous, quel trauma on vient jouer et rejouer sans arrêt, et avoir le courage... de finalement faire ce pas vers soi-même, cet amour personnel vers la réconciliation avec qui l'on est, pour trouver quelque chose qui va davantage matcher avec nous-mêmes, avec notre énergie, et qui derrière ne viendra pas sans arrêt rejouer d'anciens traumas,

• Speaker #1

  puisqu'ils seront réglés. Et donc, tous les jours, nous nous remercions l'un de l'autre et nous remercions tout ce que l'autre personne fait. Et vous savez, j'ai eu quelque chose comme ça. Si vous dites merci à tout, ça ne veut pas dire rien. Non, parce que je le ressens vraiment. Merci de laver les bâtonnets, parce que ça veut dire que je n'ai pas à laver les bâtonnets. Et je n'aime pas laver les bâtonnets. Mais je sais que elle aime laver les bâtonnets. Et ça veut dire que... ça me sauve de temps, ça veut dire que je peux me concentrer sur les choses dont j'aime servir, j'aime cuisiner la nourriture donc c'est comme tu sais on continue de donner de la gratitude, on continue de remercier la personne et ça fait que l'autre personne se sent vu, donc tu sais ça revient à ce que nous avons partagé plus tôt et puis c'est aussi à propos de se championner l'un l'autre, c'est comme une chose que j'aime c'est c'est comme cette reconnaissance je me sens reconnaissante et championnée par Beate vraiment quand je suis

• Speaker #0

  Et Martine souhaite rajouter que pour lui, il y a une grande importance à pratiquer la gratitude. La gratitude de ce que fait l'autre pour nous. Par exemple, lui, il déteste nettoyer les assiettes et Beata, elle adore ça. Et il a beaucoup de gratitude pour ça. Lui, par contre, il adore cuisiner. Il a beaucoup de gratitude parce que le fait qu'elle prenne en charge certaines choses, ça va lui permettre de dégager du temps pour faire d'autres choses. Et pratiquer la gratitude envers l'autre permet à l'autre d'être vu pour ce qu'il fait au quotidien. Merci beaucoup Martine, parce que justement, j'avais oublié de poser la question de qu'est-ce qui selon vous fait qu'une relation peut durer à long terme ? Et je crois que c'est intéressant de justement se positionner sur le fait que ce que fait l'autre n'est pas quelque chose d'acquis. Et oh, c'est bon, elle s'occupe maintenant, c'est elle qui fait la vaisselle, c'est sa corvée. Et du coup, c'est acquis et moi, plus jamais je le ferai. Et c'est quelque chose de normal, en fait,

• Speaker #2

  et de normaliser ce que fait l'autre plutôt que de le voir et de le remercier. Et avec la gratitude, tout continue à s'éloigner et à être éloigné et à se sentir éloigné dans ce espace. Et donc, il y a ça, absolument. Nous avons une très forte connexion aussi, d'abord et foremost, à Dieu, la Fille de Dieu, ce que vous voulez l'appeler. La force de vie universelle, Martin et moi sommes très commis à cela. Et aussi, nous sommes si honnêtes. Je pense que tellement de femmes... et les hommes ne demandent pas ce qu'ils vraiment veulent ou ce qu'ils ont besoin. Et donc, nous pensons quelque chose de notre partenaire comme un lecteur de la tête. Et puis, nous nous en faisons mal quand nous ne recevons pas ce que nous voulons. Et donc, je pense que l'une des choses qui est vraiment santé dans notre relation, c'est que nous demandons toujours ce que nous voulons et ce que nous avons besoin. Et puis, la personne a une choix. Peux-je l'offrir ou ne peux-je pas ? Est-ce que je peux... Et pour aller plus loin en cette notion de gratitude,

• Speaker #0

  Beata et Martine sont vraiment très dédiées à avoir de la gratitude pour l'univers, pour un dieu, peu importe comment vous souhaitez l'appeler, mais ils ont cette même pratique. Et du coup, l'énergie de la gratitude permet d'expandre en fait. c'est-à-dire de donner une dimension supérieure. Elle aborde aussi la notion que souvent, que ce soit les hommes ou les femmes, on n'ose pas demander, exprimer nos besoins. Et on attend de l'autre qu'il soit un devin et qu'il aille deviner ce qui se joue dans notre tête. Et du coup, elle appelle au courage d'exprimer ses opinions, mais aussi d'exprimer ses besoins que l'autre ne pouvant pas le deviner. C'est important d'exprimer. ce qui se joue pour nous, de ce dont on a besoin, et à charge à l'autre de voir si dans son espace, c'est possible à lui d'y répondre ou pas. Mais en tout cas,

• Speaker #1

  la demande a été faite de façon explicite et il n'y a pas de non-dit au sein du couple. C'est ce que j'ai besoin. Je suis en colère maintenant et ça n'a rien à voir avec toi, mais c'est juste quelque chose que tu as triggeré dans moi. Et je me dis, super, alors je sais ce qui se passe. Je peux travailler avec ça au lieu de juste avoir le traitement silencieux ou le traitement anglais ou ce genre de choses. Mais non, merci. Elle a assez de conscience de soi pour voir ce qui se passe et m'includer. C'est ça.

• Speaker #0

  Et pour Martine, il est totalement d'accord avec ça parce que Contrairement à ces anciennes relations, justement, puisqu'on était sur cette notion d'évolution, il disait que précédemment, il y avait des silences ou des bouderies et qu'il ne savait pas. Là, aujourd'hui, il n'y a qu'une femme qui est en pleine capacité d'exprimer ses émotions et de dire qu'elle est en colère, au lieu de juste la sentir et d'expliquer pourquoi. D'expliquer que lui soit impliqué dedans ou que juste elle ressente vraiment de la colère et qu'il ne soit pas impliqué directement. Mais au moins, il sait, il a accès à l'information plutôt qu'à un silence.

• Speaker #1

  Et, vous savez, la même chose pour moi, c'est comme, hey, vous savez, ça ne se sent pas bien, je n'ai qu'un moment pour juste respirer et je reviendrai à vous et je processerai de mon propre. Je n'ai qu'à flotter dans le espace pour dix minutes ou quoi que ce soit.

• Speaker #2

  Et une des autres choses que je pense que nous pouvons tous apprendre et continuer à pratiquer, c'est de ne pas ferme nos cœurs quand nous nous sentons en colère avec notre amoureux. C'est le plus grand problème que nous, comme humains, nous souffrons avec. Quand nous sommes en colère, quand nous sommes en colère, quand nous sentons quelque chose, nous tendons à couper et à nous protéger.

• Speaker #0

  Et Martin fait aussi la même chose, c'est-à-dire que quand il y a quelque chose qui le contrarie, il l'informe qu'il a juste besoin d'avoir 10 minutes tranquilles pour redescendre et repartir avec une belle vibration. Et Beata rebourdit sur le fait que c'est aussi très important de ne pas fermer son cœur. et ne pas se refermer lorsqu'on est blessé par son amoureux. Et qu'on peut avoir la tendance de se replier sur soi-même pour venir se protéger.

• Speaker #2

  C'est d'ailleurs souvent lorsqu'on a été blessé dans des précédentes relations ou via des traumas d'enfance. Même dans le milieu de ma douleur, de mon douleur ou de mon ennui. Et je pense que c'est quelque chose que je suis vraiment en train de apprendre à cultiver. Et pour la première fois dans ma vie, en fait.

• Speaker #1

  Elle fait de la bonne, par contre.

• Speaker #2

  Et merci. Et je me sens très, très reconnaissante que je me sens assez sûre.

• Speaker #0

  Et Beata de renchérir qu'aujourd'hui, elle peut pleinement s'exprimer, pleinement exprimer toute sa palette d'émotions, y compris quand elle est en... colère et en même temps, elle expérimente le fait qui est très nouveau pour elle d'exprimer aussi qu'elle l'aime et qu'elle aime profondément Martine, même si elle est en colère. Et c'est quelque chose de très nouveau pour Beata de rester le cœur ouvert, même lorsqu'elle est en colère, même lorsqu'elle se sent challengée par des émotions ou parfois par son conjoint, de rester le cœur ouvert et de faire comprendre à l'autre que malgré ce qui se passe, elle l'aime de tout son cœur.

• Speaker #2

  Et c'est un grand problème pour nous tous, c'est que nous, nos petits-enfants, notre petit enfant intérieur, si ce petit enfant intérieur ne se sent pas bien, si nos enfants intérieurs dans votre partenaire et que vous ne vous sentez pas bien pour jouer ensemble, vous n'aurez jamais une relation saine, ni sera-t-il jamais une relation à long terme, parce qu'à un moment donné, ce petit enfant intérieur va mettre tous les jouets de la chambre et dire je pars.

• Speaker #1

  Oui.

• Speaker #0

  Et elle reparle de l'importance de se sentir en sécurité et que son enfant intérieur se sente en sécurité. Parce que si à un moment donné dans la relation, on ne peut pas se sentir et notre enfant intérieur ne se sent pas en sécurité, il y aura des clashs, il y aura un moment où en fait sur une relation à long terme, la personne ne finira pas à partir parce qu'elle ne se sentira pas suffisamment en capacité d'être vulnérable et d'être authentique. Et effectivement, c'est tellement important de se sentir en sécurité. Pour moi, de premier abord, la sécurité, elle vient depuis notre espace intérieur, de reconnaître notre valeur, de se dire que l'on mérite certaines choses, d'être heureux, d'être respecté, d'être entouré, d'être dans toutes nos parts de vulnérabilité, notre authenticité. Également, de se sentir pleinement en sécurité au sein du couple.

• Speaker #1

  Oui, exactement. C'est comme s'être assez sain, de savoir que si je partage ça, mon partenaire ne me quittera pas. Et tu sais, c'est aussi la confiance que nous avons tous eu dans cette relation. C'est comme si nous étions bons sur nous-mêmes. Nous nous sentions bons sur nous-mêmes. Et ce jour où Beyoncé a parlé où elle m'avait donné son feu, j'étais comme, putain, je ne peux pas le faire plus bien que ce que je fais. Je fais mon mieux. Si elle me veut, super. Si elle ne me veut pas, super. Je suis... J'étais bien avant, je vais être bien après. Ça va malheureusement faire mal, mais c'est comme, OK. Donc, ça s'est passé et le feu est revenu. OK, tu sais quoi ? Je suis ici, je veux ça. Si elle veut être avec moi, je veux être avec elle aussi.

• Speaker #0

  Donc, j'ai fait un grand pas et j'ai pu voir que Beata était juste relaxée. Elle s'est fait comme, oh ! Il s'aimait déjà, il s'aime profondément, il est bien avec lui-même. Donc, cette relation, il la veut. Et quand il y a un feu qui départ depuis Beata, il est là, il est présent, il ne s'envole pas, il ne part pas, il reste présent parce qu'il veut de tout cœur cette relation. Mais néanmoins, si un jour Beata ne veut plus de cette relation, alors OK, bien sûr que ça lui fera de la peine, bien sûr qu'il sera très triste. Mais il est déjà bien avec lui-même, il n'a pas besoin d'une relation pour un... pour s'aimer, se respecter. Simplement, il reconnaît que cet espace de sécurité que lui propose Beata permet justement le fait que cette relation puisse évoluer pleinement. Et le fait qu'il ne s'enfuit pas, qu'il n'argumente pas et qu'il reste vraiment pleinement présent au moment où le feu émané de Beata a été aussi un game changer dans leur relation.

• Speaker #1

  Nous avons été géniaux après ça.

• Speaker #2

  Oui, parce que c'était un des points de choix pour nous deux. est-ce que ce homme est vraiment fort et assez commis pour être avec une femme comme moi et quand il a fait ça j'étais comme je pense qu'il est et c'était un moment que je ne vais jamais oublier parce que moi aussi j'étais dans ce processus comme une personne très indépendante pour dire je veux cette relation et c'était comme dans ce moment il m'a vraiment montré qu'il n'est pas en train de se débrouiller de mon feu ... Il ne s'en va pas parce que je me sens en colère à propos de quelque chose. Il est capable de rester là et d'écouter, de ne pas projecter rien sur moi et de dire, « D'accord, je suis là, je peux prendre ton feu. » Ça ne veut pas dire que je suis un push-over, mais je peux me mettre ici comme un homme fort, masculin, et puis, une fois que tu as fini avec ton feu, je vais partager ce que je dois partager.

• Speaker #0

  C'est ça. Parce que justement, lorsqu'il y a eu vraiment ce feu, lorsque Beata a exprimé toute sa colère, Martine n'a pas... pas bougé. Il est resté là à écouter. Il ne s'est pas enfui. Il n'a pas essayé d'argumenter. Il n'est pas quelqu'un qui vient chercher l'histoire ou chercher à mettre Beata en colère. Il a juste été là, pleinement ancré. Il a écouté jusqu'au bout. Et une fois que Beata a terminé, là, il a pu dire son avis sur le sujet, mais il n'a pas bougé parce que Beata et Martine sont... de ce que dit Beata, ils sont deux personnes très indépendantes, ils n'ont pas forcément besoin l'un ou l'autre, et ils se demandaient à quel moment, si finalement, ils avaient vraiment envie de cette relation. Et depuis cet espace, lorsque Martine a agi ainsi, Beata a vraiment compris qu'il était fait pour elle. Tout simplement parce qu'il n'a pas eu peur de sa puissance et qu'il n'a pas cherché à la réduire, mais qu'il a pleinement accueilli toutes les facettes de Beata, y compris celles où elle peut exprimer pleinement sa colère.

• Speaker #2

  Il ne s'est pas enfui,

• Speaker #0

  il n'a pas claqué la porte, il n'a pas cherché à argumenter, il est juste resté pleinement présent et c'est ça qui, selon elle, crée aussi cette pleine intimité.

• Speaker #1

  c'est quand tu penses qu'elle est terminée,

• Speaker #0

  juste attendre.

• Speaker #1

  Attendez un peu plus longtemps. Même si elle dit qu'elle est terminée, attendez un peu plus longtemps.

• Speaker #2

  Il dit ça à tous ses clients, à tous les hommes.

• Speaker #1

  Juste attendez un peu plus longtemps. Regardez, il y a toujours un peu d'extra. Et puis après ça, il y a un peu de temps. Il y a un peu de temps. Et puis vous pouvez partager. C'est vrai. C'est une histoire. C'est vrai, je prends la responsabilité pour ça, c'est une histoire, je ne suis pas là ou quoi que ce soit. Mais juste pour vous dire, je veux vraiment partager ce qui est si puissant et qui concerne être dans nos plus grands potentiels.

• Speaker #0

  Et Martin donne un conseil précieux aux hommes qui écoutent. C'est que quand la femme argumente, attendez un peu parce qu'il y a toujours un petit surplus. Même quand elle dit qu'elle a terminé, elle va revenir une fois encore parce qu'il y aura encore un petit reste et qu'elle voudra encore dire quelque chose. Et une fois que ce sera réellement terminé, alors là, effectivement, il pourra y avoir un échange. Chacun pourra prendre la pleine responsabilité de ce qu'il est. de l'impact qu'il a pu avoir dans ce qui s'est passé, etc. Et une autre chose que dit Martine, c'est qu'ils « claim each other » . Ça veut dire vraiment qu'ils viennent, pas réclamer, qu'ils viennent revendiquer le fait d'être avec l'autre. Qu'ils le disent haut et fort que ça, c'est ma personne. Elle, c'est ma personne. C'est mon partenaire. C'est mon amoureux, mon amoureuse. C'est ma personne.

• Speaker #1

  Et c'est quelque chose que j'ai vraiment appris de Beata, c'est de se croire en chacun dans tous les espaces. Et ce que ça veut dire, c'est que nous étions à cet événement l'autre jour et Beata, elle partage, je suis si reconnaissante pour Martin et pour le soutien qu'il me donne dans ce espace. Et nous allons se marier l'année prochaine. Donc de cette façon, elle dit à tout le monde, c'est mon partenaire, je l'aime, je suis fière de lui.

• Speaker #0

  Et c'est quelque chose que Martine ne connaissait pas et qu'il expérimente avec Beata. Il donne l'exemple où elle a animé une cérémonie et elle a pris le temps de remercier Martine pour la sécurité de l'espace qu'il procurait. Et elle en a profité pour dire que c'était son compagnon, son fiancé, qu'ils allaient se marier en janvier. Et donc, c'est en ça où il se présente et ils introduisent la personne, leur amoureux.

• Speaker #1

  Non, nous sommes en possession d'un autre dans tous les espaces.

• Speaker #0

  Et inversement, Martin fait la même chose lorsqu'il va à un événement, que ce soit un homme ou une femme en face de lui, il dit « Est-ce que vous avez rencontré ma partenaire, ma fiancée, ma femme, ma future femme ? » Et donc, dans chacun des espaces, il se présente et il forme un couple officiel au vu de tous.

• Speaker #1

  Je suis fier d'être avec Beata et je montre ça. Et c'est quelque chose que je n'ai pas... Je ne comprends pas jusqu'à ce que nous ayons commencé notre danse. Je suis vraiment reconnaissant de ce que j'ai appris. C'est quelque chose que je partagerais avec tout le monde. Claimer ton partenaire, parce que ça les fait sentir sains, et ils savent que tu ne vas pas aller autour et faire des choses étranges derrière leur dos quand tu es dehors, mais que tu les claims dans tous les espaces. Je pense que c'est vraiment important de se sentir vraiment sain dans la relation.

• Speaker #0

  Je crois que si tu choisis...

• Speaker #2

  Et évidemment, nous choisissons une relation monogame. Il y a d'autres types de relations qui fonctionnent pour d'autres personnes. Mais dans ce cas, je pense que c'est si bon parce que tout le monde sait que cette personne a déclaré sa femme ou son homme. Et ça veut dire que je ne suis pas assis là, comme Martin l'a dit, derrière les portes fermées ou à une fête en disant, oh, êtes-vous là avec quelqu'un ? Oh, vous êtes juste mon ami là-bas. Et Martine valide le fait que c'est tellement important pour son partenaire d'être présenté.

• Speaker #0

  Comme ça, il n'est pas caché derrière une porte, il a tout l'espace de se sentir en sécurité. Et Beata raconte une anecdote où elle... Elle avait parfois des relations où il y avait des très belles femmes dans l'espace et elle, elle n'était pas présentée comme étant la compagne. Et personne ne savait réellement qui elle était. Et elle disait à quel point elle ne se sentait pas bien. Elle se sentait tellement mal, en fait, de ne pas être présentée, de ne pas être celle qui est officialisée. Elle renchérit en disant qu'eux ont choisi la monogamie, qu'il existe bien entendu d'autres façons d'avoir un couple, mais que quoi qu'il en soit, c'est important de présenter l'autre, qu'il sente qu'il a une vraie place. au sein de votre vie et qu'il est présenté comme tel.

• Speaker #2

  Et si vous vous

• Speaker #0

  retrouvez dans une relation où la personne, elle n'est pas sûre, de bien faire attention à ce que cela ne vienne pas impacter, vous impacter. impacter votre confiance en vous, votre estime de vous. Parce que ça, ce qui se passe parle de lui et non pas de vous et de votre essence, de votre beauté. Ça parle vraiment de lui et de son engagement par rapport à la relation.

• Speaker #2

  Et elle est sûre en chérie que cela peut vraiment créer un manque de confiance en soi,

• Speaker #0

  un manque d'estime de soi et qu'éventuellement, ça peut même aller jusqu'à créer une rupture au sein du couple. Mais que dans tous les cas, ce manque d'engagement peut vraiment générer chez soi un manque de confiance, un manque d'estime de soi. Et qu'il faut bien faire attention à ce genre d'énergie,

• Speaker #2

  qu'elle ne vienne pas impacter qui l'on est. En tant que couple, vous avez vu comment nous sommes dans ces espaces, dans ce chamanique hiver, comment nous sommes ensemble et nous vivons cette réalité tous les jours.

• Speaker #0

  Et Beata Martin me remercie pour cette interview. D'autant que c'est la première fois qu'on les invite tous les deux ensemble comme un couple et qu'effectivement, moi, j'ai eu l'occasion de voir comment ils agissaient l'un envers l'autre et toute la tendresse et les attentions qu'ils se portaient au cours des cérémonies qu'on a faites cet été. Et c'est ce qui m'a d'ailleurs effectivement donné envie de créer ce podcast et de les écouter parce que je les ai trouvés très inspirants. Et pour moi, c'est vrai que ça a été un vrai plaisir et une grande envie de les interviewer parce que pour les avoir observés cet été, j'ai eu vraiment cette impression. Déjà, ils parlent extrêmement gentiment l'un envers l'autre. Ils sont toujours en train de se remercier pour ce que l'autre fait dans chacun des espaces. Et aussi parce que j'ai cette sensation lorsque je les observe que leur énergie danse ensemble. Et je trouve ça tellement beau à observer. Et aussi d'observer lors des cérémonies qu'on a fait cet été, à quel point le fait que cette énergie qui danse ensemble crée un espace de sécurité absolue pour les personnes présentes et à quel point c'était agréable de sentir comme une impression qu'en fait ils n'avaient plus pas besoin de se parler, que dans ces espaces-là, c'est comme s'ils parlaient par télépathie et que finalement l'un apportait à l'autre de façon très... très fluide. C'était vraiment une danse à observer. Et moi je connais Beata depuis pas mal d'années maintenant. Et je sais bien évidemment c'est une femme puissante qui sait tout faire. J'ai eu l'habitude de faire des cérémonies avec elle où elle faisait tout. C'est à dire qu'elle tenait l'espace, ce qui est fondamental. Mais également elle allait nettoyer les gens quand il y avait besoin avec de la sauge. Elle allait accompagner des personnes qui étaient en difficulté ou qui avaient des émotions qui ressortaient. Et en même temps, c'est elle qui gérait toutes les chansons, tous les chants qui nous accompagnaient au cours des cérémonies. Donc c'est beaucoup de travail, c'est une énergie de dingue, on ne se rend pas compte lorsqu'on n'est pas à l'intérieur. Mais vraiment, pour avoir moi, à mon niveau, pratiqué des cérémonies, notamment de cacao, ça demande beaucoup d'énergie. Et je racontais à Beata et à Martine que moi aussi, j'avais finalement cette croyance que les femmes puissantes, ou lorsque j'étais dans ma puissance, il n'y avait pas d'hommes. pour supporter cet espace. Et que quelque part, j'avais cette vision qu'à un moment donné, finalement, les hommes, derrière leur carapace, étaient assez faibles. Je reconnais cette croyance. Et qu'à un moment donné, je serais toujours déçue. Et moi, ce que j'ai aimé observer, je vous traduis depuis le podcast que j'ai fait en anglais, ce que j'ai aimé observer, effectivement, chez Beata et Martine, c'est que chacun d'entre eux a sa propre cérémonie. Et l'autre ne cherche pas à l'écraser, l'autre ne cherche pas... à prendre sa place. Chacun est dans son espace et l'autre est là pour magnifier le travail de Beata. Martine est là pour magnifier le travail de Beata lorsque c'est elle et inversement. J'ai trouvé que c'était pour moi et c'est pour ça que je vous le partage parce que j'ai cette croyance qu'on est nombreuses à être des femmes puissantes et que ce n'est pas toujours simple d'enlever cette croyance qu'on ne peut pas trouver des hommes qui soient suffisamment strong, ancrés, puissants pour ne pas avoir peur de la puissance féminine et de la pleine expression. Et cette croyance, elle est en train de bouger doucement. Et d'ailleurs, dans mon espace aujourd'hui, l'homme qui m'accompagne est un homme très ancré et très puissant. Et donc, je redécouvre cette nouvelle facette et je réapprends à m'autoriser à vibrer ma pleine puissance sans avoir peur d'écraser mon amoureux, sans avoir peur qu'à un moment, il cherche à m'écraser ou à réduire ma lumière. Et c'est ça que j'adore tant dans le chamanisme, que j'adore tant dans les cérémonies et que j'adore tant lorsque... Je travaille avec Beata et Martine. C'est qu'à chaque fois, on a ce que j'aime beaucoup appeler des game changers, des prises de conscience incroyables. Et la faculté justement d'aller bouger certaines croyances et les regarder danser, les regarder travailler ensemble sans que l'un manque l'espace de l'autre ou qu'il y ait une quelconque concurrence, mais qu'au contraire, l'un cherche à magnifier le travail de l'autre a été pour moi quelque chose de game changer, de révélateur. dans les rapports que je pouvais avoir avec les hommes et la nouvelle personne que justement j'avais choisie parce que j'étais dans cette transition et dans ce fait de m'autoriser, et je sais que ça parlera à d'autres femmes, à briller ma pleine lumière et de m'autoriser à m'entourer de personnes, y compris bien évidemment mon amoureux, qui m'accompagnent vers ce que moi j'appelle mon plus haut potentiel, qui je suis sans mes croyances, qui je suis dans ma pleine puissance.

• Speaker #2

  Merci beaucoup pour cette réflexion. Audrey, parce qu'en travail, je n'ai pas toujours expérimenté ça. Donc, aussi, c'était un dansement lent pour nous, pour ne pas triggerer l'âme d'un ancien, de travailler avec d'autres personnes, surtout moi. J'ai travaillé avec beaucoup de hommes qui étaient très triggerés par moi dans le travail et qui ont essayé de me pousser. Donc, l'une des choses que je pense être si importantes est que nous savons notre espace quand c'est l'autre. person leading a workshop and that we also most importantly know what we bring individually to the space so we're very comfortable and secure in our own space and we love to see each other shine so when Martin is holding the space I'm very very happy to just ah I'm going to be that beautiful loving Et

• Speaker #0

  Beata me remercie pour cet effet miroir parce qu'elle nous partage que ce n'a pas été le cas et que longtemps elle a challengé les hommes avec qui elle partageait ses workshops, qui cherchaient finalement à réduire sa lumière ou qui la faisaient beaucoup plus petite, mais en tout cas qui ne cherchaient pas à la rendre lumineuse et visible. Et qu'aujourd'hui, avec Martine, chacun a son espace. Et quand elle est dans l'espace ou le workshop de Martine, elle n'a pas besoin de briller. Elle peut être là simplement à soutenir l'espace et qu'elle n'a pas besoin d'être tout le temps devant. Et qu'aussi, elle parle de l'importance d'apprendre à se reconnaître, à reconnaître ses dons et ses talents, pour justement aussi s'autoriser, lorsqu'on est dans ses propres espaces, à prendre sa pleine lumière.

• Speaker #1

  Nous avons les deux l'opportunité et la humilité de reprendre un pas. C'est comme si je n'avais pas à être dans le spotlight maintenant. C'est votre cérémonie, c'est ma cérémonie, c'est votre travail et je suis vraiment heureux et reconnaissant d'avoir l'opportunité de vous soutenir dans votre travail sacré. Comme pour moi, c'est ce que c'est pour moi.

• Speaker #2

  Je pense qu'une chose est très importante aussi. Si vous ne respectez pas votre partenaire, ça ne durera jamais.

• Speaker #0

  Non, je vous ai compris. And especially, you know, for women, I know for myself, when that respect is gone for whatever reason, very often the relationship doesn't last much longer than that. So I think, firstly, that respect has to come for ourselves, right? And, you know, I really hear what you were sharing, what you shared there just before, Audrey. And I'm going to say to you, darling, you know, challenge yourself because, you know, I... to have been very disappointed in love, you know, many, many times before where I thought, gosh, you know, why am I continuously attracting X, Y, Z? You know, I'm a very intelligent woman who's very capable, but I keep on attracting this situation. So I too know what it feels like to be so disappointed. It doesn't mean you're not going to be disappointed along the way with your partner, but I think it's really important to go, well, What aspects was I disappointed with in the past? And how can I heal that within myself so

• Speaker #1

  I don't attract it again? Maybe we will be disappointed again in a relationship, but we can try to understand why we always attracted the same people, why we always played the same scenes, because it allows us to fully participate in our evolution. And I answer him that indeed today I have a partner who is completely different from what I could have had before, who didn't please me a bit like her and Martine at first sight. towards which I would have been naturally attracted and vice versa, and that I was not afraid to be in love. And maybe, indeed, when we take being in love is a choice and also there is always a risk in all our choices. But behind that, and I know that we share that with my partner, it's that we've all experienced difficult things, moments when we were bad, or moments when we were disappointed, or big, big challenges in our lives. Today, there are few things that scare me because I know that somewhere I will always fall back on my feet. And when you have this power in you, it changes the situation and you are allowed to test, to experiment more things, because you know that you have this ability to bounce, that you have already recovered and that you are able to do it. And so we arrive with a reading, a wisdom and a different power in spaces, whether it is in love relationships or elsewhere.

• Speaker #0

  A whole, yes. Thank you so much, Audrey. And I think that takes maturity. I think that's life experience because when you have been through hell and back, when you've been on your knees begging for a new vision for your life and everything you thought you knew that you loved has left, then when you've experienced things like that that I have as well, you're not afraid of anything else. And so life can become so much more magical because it's like, I know what it's like to love. I know what it's like to lose. So I'm going to continue to have the courage, cour, which comes from the French word heart, cour, to open my heart continuously. And love is a choice. And it's a daily choice to show up and say yes to love to each other.

• Speaker #1

  And Beata bounced back saying that it actually requires a lot of wisdom. and to have understood the teachings, that she too, she found herself on her knees, begging for a new vision, begging for help, to have lost so many things. And that when we find ourselves in these spaces and we manage to understand the teaching, then we are no longer afraid of much. And that life, since this teaching, life can become so magical because we are no longer afraid of losing everything, because we are no longer afraid...

• Speaker #2

  d'aimer et c'est un courage de chaque jour de continuer à ouvrir son coeur et l'amour est un choix et nous pouvons dire oui yeah i want to share one final little thing but it's really really like big in our relationship is generosity yes giving we're both givers and i've been in my past relationships many of them have been takers and happy to take And it's such a difference to be with someone who's so happy to give. And that we're both happy to give. And also happy to receive because it has to be a balance in that way as well, that you also have to allow yourself to receive sometimes. So that's something that's really powerful in our relationship as well, is we're both really happy to give and we can also allow ourselves to receive. And we're very generous, both of us. So I'm really grateful for that quality in our relationship because that just makes everything so much easier.

• Speaker #1

  And Martine, you want to...

• Speaker #0

  Thank you so much.

• Speaker #2

  I really enjoyed this. Yeah.

• Speaker #3

  J'espère que cet épisode vous aura plu. N'hésitez pas à le partager à des personnes qui veulent, elles aussi, créer les pieds dans la terre et la tête connectée aux étoiles. Retrouvez l'ensemble des informations et des liens dans le descriptif de l'épisode, ainsi que sur mon site audreycarsalade.com. N'hésitez pas non plus à laisser un commentaire si vous avez des suggestions, des idées. ou tout simplement si vous avez aimé cet épisode. Pour cela, rien de plus simple, filez sur Apple Podcasts et n'oubliez pas les petites étoiles. Retrouvez-moi aussi sur les réseaux sociaux sous le nom de Audrey Karsalat et à l'adresse contacte at audreykarsalat.com. N'oubliez pas non plus de vous abonner à la clé de route sur votre plateforme des podcasts préférée pour être informé de la sortie du prochain épisode. Bonne semaine à tous. And thank you for listening.