Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Hi, it's Pauline from ETExpats. Today I am with Maddalena, who is an Italian relationship coach now living in London. She's lived all over the world, but we'll be diving into her experiences with relationships and how they can be changed by your expat life. Hi, Maddalena, how are you? Hello, Pauline. Hello, everyone. I'm fine. Thank you. Great to see you. Good to have you today. I'll let you introduce yourself briefly and then we'll go into your life abroad.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's Maddalena Avario. I'm a relationship and dating coach and I help women living abroad avoid repeating the same relationship patterns I once lived in my life.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, talking from experience then.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• Speaker #0

  Right, well, we'll definitely go into those specific patterns that expat women can have. First, how did you move abroad in the first place? You've lived in many places. What triggered the first and this will to move quite often?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, actually, I moved quite often because I'm curious and I love to explore things.

• Speaker #0

  Right.

• Speaker #1

  I lived in Brazil, in Dublin, Lugano, Switzerland, but my most transformative experience has been in Dublin.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  I left Italy for Dublin soon after my business administration degree and I didn't know exactly which path to take in my career and I wanted to understand myself better.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  I wanted to improve my English, yes, but more than that, I wanted space for myself.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, so it was about finding yourself alone and not with the norms of Italy, I want to say.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, exactly that.

• Speaker #0

  And so why Dublin? I get the English piece, but why Dublin and not maybe London or US or whatever?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, right. Because I'm from the south of Italy, so I was born in a small town, but I went to Milan to study. And I wanted a small town to connect with people. And I thought that Dublin was perfect. British people love to talk, love conversations. And I remember this beautiful mix between generations. Because in Dublin it's like young people and elderly people are sitting in the pub together. in the pub together. It was so exciting to talk to them and to talk about life, literature, even about James Joyce. Sometimes I was just feeling to live in a novel actually. It was so beautiful. Yeah, Dublin.

• Speaker #0

  for this reason was like means a lot to me yes so you say it was the most transformative can you elaborate a little bit on what happened what made you transform yeah yeah because the first period

• Speaker #1

  was really exciting i was free i was full of joy i was experiencing new things and I found the space for myself I was looking for.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  After a while, I started to feel lonely and I wanted a deeper emotional connection. So I started dating in Dublin. It was a...

• Speaker #0

  Fun times.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, at the beginning it was very nice, very exciting. But then I realized that something similar was up. happening again and again and things would end and I wouldn't understand why. And it was very painful for me because I couldn't understand the reason why things were happening in this way. Then I remember that I was watching a TV show and they were saying something like life keeps showing you the same things because you have a lesson to learn. And that was a turning point for me because I told myself, maybe it's not a pure rejection. Maybe I'm rejecting too. I realized that actually I was idealizing men. I was feeling intensity in my head. And when someone was trying to get closer, I would push this person away. And this person would step back. So that was the mechanism I was creating at that time. I thought it was rejection. And also I realized that because I was vulnerable, I was choosing men for what they were representing, not for who they were. Maybe I was choosing because of their status or because for their external validation. But I was not choosing from alignment. I was choosing from a place of need. and that was a turning point. point for me and then I started to work on myself. First of all, the first thing I did, I remember, I wrote down as a flow of consciousness all my past relationships and actually I was noticing patterns and I was noticing this kind of idealization or this choice that was coming from a place of need. And then I decided to ask for help and then I started to lower the barrier I had built. Because I think that when you are abroad you build a barrier unconsciously because this barrier makes you feel more efficient, stronger, independent. But at the same time, this barrier blocks intimacy. So you are afraid of real connection. And idealization is the strategy that I was using to avoid real closeness. I realized this and it was so... I felt free when I understood that.

• Speaker #0

  Once you recovered.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, because I said, so it's not rejection. It's a pattern. I mean a pattern. And so being aware of that was very powerful because I started to lower the barrier because the barrier comes from fear and the fear comes from, sometimes comes from the fact you don't know what's happening. And so awareness gave me lots of power. And then I started to reframe my past. I started to say, I mean, I was in a pattern. nuts. rejection and I started to talk to myself in a gentle way for example you are not wrong but you are you are just learning and so that changed everything for me yeah I completely understand the barrier piece as being

• Speaker #0

  an expat you build up so much strength and independence one question I had I was thinking more of... A lot of expats, they move to a city, they know they're not going to stay. And I think that's a pattern I've seen a lot and that I've gone through of dating when you're in this country, you know you're going to leave. You cannot project yourself because you're in this mindset of it's just passing through, so why invest? Are there any other patterns that you would see working with expats?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, another pattern I was going through is that... I wanted to prove myself that I was able to stay in a relationship. And then I told myself maybe I need something more stable. And I chose a safe relationship. It was very calm. It was very healthy. But deep inside, I knew that I was settling. And I understood that was not the solution for me. And also, I understand what you are saying about the fact that you feel that you will live. And according to me, in that case, it's important just to say things, to call things for what they are, to be sincere. And you never know how things can evolve.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, of course.

• Speaker #1

  But it's important to call things for their name. to put all the cards on the table.

• Speaker #0

  On your experience in Dublin, is there anything else that you wanted to add?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, after this turning point, things started to change because I started dating in a different way. I started to go beyond chemistry because before I thought that chemistry was the same as compatibility. Instead, chemistry is nice, is a spark, but it's not everything.

• Speaker #0

  Right.

• Speaker #1

  Chemistry can't be confused with alignment. Alignment is another thing. And when you know about what you want, who you are. your values, your non-negotiables. When you meet someone, you start to ask deeper questions and you want to understand his vision. You ask yourself, are we truly aligned? Is he emotionally available? Because sometimes you fall in love with people that are not available. But when you realize it, it's too late. you are in the relation and it's difficult to step back. To fall out, yeah. Instead, at the very beginning, it's a precious moment to understand things and to understand if the person you are dating can be a right match for you. And so I started dating in a completely different way. And it was so nice and completely different from the beginning. Yeah, also I wanted to add about my favourite song in Dublin, because I really loved to dance when I was in Dublin. And I remember this song, it's called Tam Tam Bling by Chumbawanga. It's the main line that says, I get not down, but I get up again.

• Speaker #0

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  It's a beautiful song. I was dancing to this song in Dublin and actually I was not realizing that that song was talking about my life. And so this song means a lot to me. I was like, it's a beautiful song full of meaning.

• Speaker #0

  That's a nice one. All right. Well, let's fast forward to London. Can new life, different environments, a completely different context for you? Can you give us a bit more clarity about how you moved there and talk about your life there today?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah. I moved to London with my partner and my two sons. Because after Dublin, then I moved to Rome. And in Rome, I met my partner, who was living in London anyway.

• Speaker #0

  He was living in London, okay.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah. And then after a while, we decided to move to London. I truly love London and I'm still very curious, very open, but I feel more grounded. For me, London is like a micro-system and it's like multicultural, people come and go. And it's a beautiful town, but navigating London can be very difficult if you don't know yourself, if you don't know your values and what you really want. then also London is the place where I decided to become a relationship and dating coach and to do what I do, helping women navigating the dating in London. And there is a place I really love in London, it's called Jack and Daffol. You can have a lunch or a dinner there, you can take the lift, you go all the way up. And you can see the whole of London from above. And it's open 24 hours a day. When I'm there, I feel like expanded. I feel like alive. And I feel like I have all the energy to do something meaningful for me and for the people I'm helping. It's like it's a place that for me, it's inspired me.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. So you were saying in London, you feel grounded. And what about when you, the type of move this time as you were joining your partner, you were moving for someone, you're at a different stage of life. So how did you feel moving and how was the adaptation versus your time in Dublin, for example?

• Speaker #1

  Oh, it was completely different because my priority was my family. So I had less time to go out, to meet people. and so it took me more time to settle in London. But I did it step by step and enjoying every single moment and with lots of curiosity because actually when I'm abroad I feel a different energy and I like to notice everything and to notice the different habits. And so for me, it's still very inspiring. But of course, I was not carefree and free like in Dublin.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  It's like, but I still enjoy the process.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, the process and the life there. Okay.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  All right. So you were saying you... You work mainly with women expats. We talked about a couple of the patterns for sure, but are there specific differences that you see for women expats that you don't see with other women dating in their usual environment, I want to say?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that's a good question. What I can say is that patterns are there, are inside a person, but when you are abroad, these patterns are stronger and amplified.

• Speaker #0

  Really?

• Speaker #1

  Oh wow. Yeah, because you don't have your usual support system. You don't have the family. And so you can feel lonely. So sometimes you want a quick connection.

• Speaker #0

  Right, yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And the barrier you built can be stronger because maybe you have to look for a job or to learn a new language. So you know that you have to count on yourself.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And so you can't relax. So this barrier helps you a lot. But sometimes at a certain stage, you need to tank this barrier, but to lower this barrier. Otherwise,

• Speaker #0

  you've got to open up.

• Speaker #1

  And this is what I see with women that are very strong, very, very driven, but at the same time verify

• Speaker #0

  they can be very fragile yeah there's a vulnerability of the fact that you're not at home and and there's that loneliness it's funny how you have those two opposites of i feel lonely i want to connect but i have a wall that exactly yeah exactly yes yes and it's like sometimes you see like very successful women then

• Speaker #1

  then have like problems in the emotional connection and and sometimes the two things are just linked right yeah that's what i i notice okay interesting and so how would you recommend bringing that part down yeah i okay i lost you for a while yeah i would suggest to first of all to gain awareness for example a very practical exercise can be right down without thinking too much without overthinking about your relationships and start to notice if there is something repeating so start from that to gain awareness because when you are aware you start to relax and when you start to relax your fear lowers and your your your barrier goes down to end And also like I see lots of women talking to themselves in a very strict way. Or they are like, for example, you have to do that. You are wrong. You are broken. You are so too. Love yourself. Way. Yeah. Because sometimes I can. You have very like efficient women that are too strict, even with their self talking. And and then also. what I did with myself, to look at things in a different way. Because sometimes it's also the way you tell yourself things. If you say like, everything is happening to me, it's like all the relationships are finishing in a bad way. It's like, but sometimes it's not, it's also you are rejecting people. You don't want closeness. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  seeing the hard truth, that's...

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, but it's not automatic at all because, for example, if I think about myself in Dublin, I desperately wanted a connection. It was difficult to realize that it was myself pushing the...

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, chasing the wrong and pushing the back.

• Speaker #1

  It's so difficult to make this association. And if you start from that... things start to change. step by step of course having the awareness for sure is the first one and trying to the awareness for sure is the first step otherwise you feel like you have bad luck or for example i even thought i was cursed i know that it's strange to say because i'm very rational but in that moment you even think about that because it's like it's yeah it's repeating repeating and repeating Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Well, thank you for sharing the advice and the tips of writing down everything and identifying those patterns. You talked a little bit about a recommendation in London. Is there another place like bar, cafe or restaurants that you would put in your top choices for London?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, there is like a... a place called Ivy in London. There are different restaurants under this name. They are for me, they are inspiring because I like people, there are always lots of people there and I like the vibes.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, so it's very dynamic or?

• Speaker #1

  Very dynamic, very dynamic. I go there with my family but also with my friends.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, so it's a nice going out spot for everyone. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  yeah. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  okay. And what about the song? Are you sticking to the Dublin song or is there another expat song?

• Speaker #1

  I can say I have an expat song but for sure I really love jazz. Okay. And yeah, I love the vibe. and I like to go to listen to jazz in the city centre with my partner and it's so relaxing but so alive at the same time it is very alive jazz is great in the centre of London there are lots of opportunities to listen to music big scene yeah London is great for the music for sure yeah

• Speaker #0

  All right, great. Well, thank you. Thank you again for sharing your relationship tips and what to be aware of as an expat woman when you're entering the dating scene. Guys, if you enjoyed the episode, you can put a rating on Apple Podcasts or Spotify, leave a comment. And of course, all the updates are on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube. We'll put everything in the comments.