- Speaker #0
welcome true believers to secret identity the podcast where if the family feuds it's a family of bats and that's who you're joined by today the bat fan boy wonder brent birnbaum and the caped crusader harrison herself thank you for joining us thank you starting to get starting to get you haven't been on a couple episodes you were sick now you're back to being alive people missed you the true believers missed you yeah that spider bite really fucked me up for quite some time who knew radioactive spiders won't actually give you powers did you ever think like I have cancer what about my spider sense doc he's like that's your white blood cells attacking the rest of your body my eyesight's getting so much better no no no no Your brain is making you think you do. You haven't climbed a wall. You've actually broken, entered in several government buildings.
- Speaker #1
It would be funny if, like, Peter was just rubbing himself up on walls.
- Speaker #0
And he's a grown man being like, I'm in high school. Like a Peewee Herman Parker. They're back in the movies this month, and they've been making bank, the Spider-Man movies, even in TASM 2, which I love. Yeah, I saw Dark Knight Rises a couple of weeks ago, and I was like, I'm out. I was like, I forgot this movie makes no sense.
- Speaker #1
This is not a very good movie.
- Speaker #0
It's what happens when you are afraid of the studio taking over. And also, I don't think he wanted to do a third one. And how can you follow up such a good movie?
- Speaker #1
He did want to do a third one, but I think his intention was always to have the Joker in it. Yes. and so I think when Heath Ledger died, I think it totally threw everything through a loop.
- Speaker #0
I watched the video of the ending of that when he's talking, of Batman Begins, when he's talking to Katie Holmes. So many people were shitting on Maggie Gyllenhaal. I'm like, this feels like a Rachel Bruce Wayne would fall in love with, not this facelift-needing motherfucker. I'm like, I thought Maggie Gyllenhaal was beautiful.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, objectively a better actor than Katie Holmes.
- Speaker #0
I mean, better taste than men at the time. Jake. Yeah, you know. Our book today, do you have any, oh, you're holding a physical? Oh, yeah, we do physical media in this house.
- Speaker #1
We go analog, baby.
- Speaker #0
I've got so much that I think I have what they call a hoarding problem.
- Speaker #1
I don't enjoy these iPads.
- Speaker #0
I don't enjoy it. Every single time I've entered the password, just look at my face and go, he's grumpy. It's him. Do we have any confirmed Jewish superheroes?
- Speaker #1
Uh, yes. Yeah. Kitty Pryde and Ben Grimm.
- Speaker #0
Ben, that's right.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, and it depends what... Like, Moon Knight... i mean he's jewish i don't know yeah he's george santos super schizophrenia yeah and magneto's not really a hero but he's definitely jewish no don't make me see xavier i can't yeah
- Speaker #0
they gotta i feel like it's time to update magneto bad stuff has happened to the culture of the jewish people since the holocaust you could update it for a little bit because like Otherwise, if it's going to take place in 2025, he would have to be what? 90? Yeah,
- Speaker #1
that's true. Like, they can still do it on X-97 because that takes place in the cities? Yes,
- Speaker #0
yeah. We're talking about Batgirl year one. There's Batman year one, which was the first time we got Batman's origin, which he was created in 1939, and we didn't get his origin until 1987.
- Speaker #1
I think there must have been some pre-crisis origin. Yeah. But after post-crisis on it.
- Speaker #0
Crisis, the story, you mean? Yeah. Not him losing his parents. there's an alleyway that's a bit of a crisis he yeah and so did albert riddler made a side note i thought riddler made a great point about that all right we're gonna transfer on uh the next topic brent's gonna i've read the joker was right i
- Speaker #1
know what was a good point you're having it you were bruce wayne is not a real orphan he goes he grew up like his parents, I mean, his parents said, we got a billion dollars. He got like, he got a true Butler that loves him. Like I had to like live.
- Speaker #0
That's true from his perspective. Yeah. From his perspective.
- Speaker #1
You can like, I'm not saying Edward Nashton was right, but I'm saying I understand the point.
- Speaker #0
No. Yeah. And Bruce Wayne's sort in that movie, uh, was all Batman. Like, and he was all, you could tell, like he cut himself. Alfred always has a line where he's like, that little boy died in the alley with his parents that day. And that's sort of what the Pattinson Batman was like. Totally. He was just like totally removed and was able to seclude himself and go learn karate in the mountains because he had billions of dollars. Nashton had to play a dusty keyboard next to Andy Serkis, you know? It was a rough time for him. It'll roughen up anybody. Today we're talking about Batgirl year one. It was written in 2003. I was surprised by how it's 21 years old. It delves into the origins and early days of Barbara Gordon as Batgirl. Barbara has always had a lot of different stories. Sometimes she's Jim's daughter. Sometimes she's not. Sometimes in Batman Beyond. which is in the animated series universe. She becomes the commissioner. Sometimes she has a love interest with Bruce Wayne, which is disgusting.
- Speaker #1
And problematic.
- Speaker #0
And problematic. And this, she has one with Robin, which is who she's supposed to be with.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, that makes sense.
- Speaker #0
He loved her through.
- Speaker #1
They're the same age.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, they're the same age. Yeah, yeah. Stay in your lane. I feel bad not even picking up on that. When they added that scene in the Killing Joke movie. that they didn't have to. Yeah. And they handle, this book does a great job at non-fridging, like we always talk about. Like you don't ever want to have the intention of writing a strong female character. Just write a character. And that's what they did with her.
- Speaker #1
Passes the Bechdel test.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And by they, I mean Warren, Scott Beattie and Chuck Dixon. And it was illustrated by Marcos Martin and Alvaro Lopez. And it is the art. It reminded me of a PS2 game, but also modern at the same time. It was very weird.
- Speaker #1
It also kind of calls back to the animated series. I feel like she kind of looks like how she did in the new Batman Adventures.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, and I was watching that two-parter of her introduction, and all of it's campy, to be honest with you, that whole episode. She somehow gets his costume, and then Robin's chasing her, and he grabs the back of the cowl, and it rips out, and that's when the red hair becomes a part of the costume. and then they're drowning at one point and she just grappling hooks them up like there's so much wrong and then batman is like okay i guess you could be part of the team now and this they did i thought how they handled it was it was great perfect like it was a great intro and it was a great uh i feel like people don't know about Batgirl. Because there's Batgirl, there's Batwoman. Yeah.
- Speaker #2
I didn't really know before I met you guys. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
If you don't know anything about Batgirl, this is a great first story.
- Speaker #2
It was easy. Easy to read.
- Speaker #0
It's about Barbara Gordon. Age is five and up. Who is five and up. Yeah. We're all four. This is about Barbara, who in this, she's the daughter of Police Commissioner James Gordon, who I think is a captain at this point.
- Speaker #1
I think he's commissioner. He's not quite commissioner yet.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. And she's trying to make her mark. independently from her dad's shadow. She wants to be a cop.
- Speaker #2
It's like you're not even tall enough.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, you're not tall enough to be a cop. You got to age in high school. You can't be a cop. Who do you think you are? You got to get a C-at least.
- Speaker #1
I'm just doing this for your own good, Barbara.
- Speaker #0
That is going to be Jim Gordon's whole podcast. Just so you know, we're bringing Stewart back. Stewart's back. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Babs, I care deeply about you. That's why I don't want to put you in harm's way.
- Speaker #0
He hates masks in this, and there's a scene where he's like, I have to go out every day as a police officer, and, you know, what reward do I get? And I'm like, qualified immunity. That's what you get, buddy. She's trying to make it as a cop, and when she's rejected because of her gender and height, and her debut as Batgirl is accidental at a weird... Illuminati party and a kidnapping attempt. Three court of owls, though. Three court of owls, yeah. We have the killer moth. Who's the other one?
- Speaker #1
Firefly.
- Speaker #0
Who reminds me of Beavis.
- Speaker #1
Dude, honestly, Killer Moth.
- Speaker #0
It's like Hannibal Lecter and Beavis.
- Speaker #1
Killer Moth is really silly in this. Oh,
- Speaker #0
yeah, he's the one who reminds me of Beavis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. He's so dumb.
- Speaker #1
He's so dumb. I remember him from Teen Titans, and he was a very different character in Teen Titans.
- Speaker #0
He was scarier in the Lego Batman game. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
he's like a scary character, but he had a daughter that he wanted Dick Grayson to go out with.
- Speaker #0
The scene where he goes to the mob and goes, I got an idea that's going to make me money. It's going to help you guys out. A moth lamp. It'll take out superheroes. And they literally throw them out and show up at his house the next day being like, you owe us 500 grand, buddy. It kind of pisses Batgirl off that that's her first hero. She also, what I really love, is takes her own Jiu-Jitsu classes. So she knows how to fight. She doesn't have to rely on Batman for it. She faces a bunch of different adversaries. Firefly.
- Speaker #1
Firefly is scary.
- Speaker #0
Firefly is scary. And so is Rebam.
- Speaker #1
That would have been great in the Batgirl movie where Brendan Fraser was playing Firefly. If like when he kind of came on the screen and we just heard, you would not believe you're out.
- Speaker #0
It's upcoming. And when they decide to put out the Batwoman movie, we're going to predict it somehow. We're going to sing Umbrella on a podcast episode. And that's going to be the song that they use at the end of the trailer, like Deadpool and Wolverine. Because we know. What are we talking about? We got our shit together. It's sexist. Like what we talked about with Annie. Like they immediately started calling her a bitch. They never told any of the Titans that. She's fighting against that. She's constantly reflecting on her own growth. And she is a woman who understands her, or is understood, but underestimated by her peers. What do you think about Batgirl, Slater? I'll turn it to you first. What are your impressions on Batgirl? Because I read this as you became my favorite member of the Bat family. Used to be Dick. Now it's Barbara.
- Speaker #2
and Batgirl yeah she's my favorite yeah drop the dick go for the babes she's great I feel like every female fucking superhero, villain, whatever it is, always starts from the fucking bottom. But they always come out on top. They do. That's why I was like, oh, fuck yeah. I mean, it's a hero fucking journey.
- Speaker #0
People get sick of hearing the Batman year, origins, origins, because how many times have we watched his parents do that? We don't really get to see her origin that much. Batman,
- Speaker #2
I feel like all the guy heroes start like they're badass, and then you find out their trauma as they're in between, whereas all the chicks are like...
- Speaker #0
You're immediately getting punched down the leg. Punch. yeah like i'll prove you the first chapter she gets yelled at by her dad yeah that's a move which is cool yeah but like every single she doesn't really win until the end yeah um which uh interesting thing i wanted to point out was she kept talking about uh the oracle cassandra yeah i remember reading about her when i was in sixth grade because i went through a greek mythology phase and the way batman looks up to zoro and that's his sort of dude i wanted to uh uh talk about who Cassandra was because you could see that as being...
- Speaker #1
Is she the one from the Iliad, like with
- Speaker #0
Troy? Ironically enough. No, we were together for a little bit in the 70s. She had a fertile crescent, if you know what I mean. I messed up that. Oh, Batamia. Oh, she was... Cassandra was a figure from Greek mythology featured in the epic tales surrounding the Trojan Condom War. She was a princess of Troy, Hala, daughter of King Priam. and she was granted the power of prophecy. She could see things before they happened.
- Speaker #2
Like an oracle.
- Speaker #0
She also knew music, so she had a sound cloud. She could heal and more. And the broader narrative of the Trojan War, for example, she told them that the Trojan horse was a trap and they didn't listen.
- Speaker #1
Wait, it's a what?
- Speaker #0
It's a trap!
- Speaker #2
I would hate to have that.
- Speaker #0
power and gift too because imagine knowing and i'm trying to tell people and i don't listen you're just always like i was getting home i told you right yeah exactly high sides yeah 2020 uh yeah that uh so like that would suck i don't think barbara possesses any of these qualities in many ways i think she's sort of the opposite of cassandra the oracle even though ironically there's a lot of allusions to killing joke in this there are so many like the end i took my took Oh my god.
- Speaker #1
I pick up on that when Dick says to her, he's like, you see this clown? You run.
- Speaker #0
Run. I got chills when he said it. And that's Dick, not even Jason. Like, this is still, you have to consider early crime fighting days, because they had the picture of the Joker with the red hood behind him. That means Batman finally pees together. He created him. I want to say she reminded me a lot of you. She had the attitude of, oh, well, all right, you're not going to watch me do it by myself. Yeah,
- Speaker #2
me and my jujitsu skills.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Jujitsu.
- Speaker #0
Jujitsu. Jujitsu. It was always her. Gordon, not knowing she was Batgirl, was always like Lois Lane in Superman to me. And this book does the perfect thing, which Batman even does at times with Alfred. Alicia Silverstone played Batgirl in that movie?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, but she wasn't Barbara Gordon.
- Speaker #0
Who was she?
- Speaker #1
She was like Alfred's niece.
- Speaker #0
Why?
- Speaker #2
Yeah, what?
- Speaker #1
Joe Schumacher.
- Speaker #0
You see, the thing is, is those movies were not made like the Nolan movies, where it was a lore thing. It was made to sell McDonald's meals.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, and I think he claimed it was an homage to the Adam West 60s show, but they just came out terrible.
- Speaker #0
Was she? What was she in that show?
- Speaker #1
In that show, it was Barbara Gordon.
- Speaker #0
It was Barbara, yeah. If you are interested in Batgirl or you don't know anything about her, when you read this book, you will be. This is a very fast read because of how interesting it is. interesting it is it's nine issues if you get a chance to get the graphic novel i would say get the hard copy issue one shadows of the bat barbara gordon frustrated by the lack of respect from her father and batman creates the batgirl costume for a police ball then what happens when she gets the police ball brenty boy who does she run into she runs into a character named killer moth mid-fight where she's we see her fighting killer moth and she's narrating i'm guessing we're seeing expert you excerpts from her journal.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, because Barbara Gordon, at this point, had wanted to join the police force, but Jim Gordon, being the protective dad that he is, says...
- Speaker #0
That's really why I won't let her do it.
- Speaker #1
You can't do it. If anything happened to you, I couldn't live with myself.
- Speaker #0
Part of that, and it's also, Jim knows that every cop in Gotham is corrupt, and Barbara's probably going to get shot because she's his daughter.
- Speaker #1
Oh, he's like a Berman traffic.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, exactly. oh yeah i just finished that i call so i finished all i love gordon in this this is a great gordon study this this book is all about this is a character driven story barb obviously being the center of it but everybody's character is you immediately know who they are based on who they're interacting with like we know gordon wants to protect barbara from the police force because he won't let her on even though next panel she goes he's like a week away from being commissioner uh uh we we know her relationship with people outside of her life like when that guy is like miss uh uh gordon would you like me to alphabetize the philosophy section and she's like just ask me out already if you want to fuck me and then he runs away and like so we see that she's kind of isolated and in a headspace to do something drastic but then i like that we see her in the jujitsu class where she you where she psychs the guy out, where he's like, what are you, a woman? Yeah, I knew you couldn't fight back. And she hits him with the sublase over the shoulder. It's such a good scene.
- Speaker #1
That's a little badass.
- Speaker #0
She knows jujitsu.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, like Giselle.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. I tweeted that thing where I said, if I was Superman, I would fight crime butt-ass naked. Who's going to stop me? And somebody, quote, tweeted it, Dr. Manhattan.
- Speaker #2
That was.
- Speaker #0
And then somebody was like, well, you would want children to watch? And I was like, kids are watching Cocomelon, not. Superman fight crime. Oh. He has a plan to break into the Justice Society of America's office. Yes. What a bull. You've been to D.C. You've walked around the embassy rows. That's kind of what the JSA's headquarters is like. She's able to break in. And what's her goal of breaking in?
- Speaker #1
She wants to win over Black Canary because she idolizes Black. Like, she doesn't care about Batman. Yeah. Her wearing this costume is an F you to Gordon.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's like a white girl dating a black guy to piss off her dad.
- Speaker #1
Exactly. The person she really wants to be partners with is Black Canary.
- Speaker #0
Is she not part of the JSA at this point? Canary? Yeah.
- Speaker #1
so the JSA the JSA is like they're like half-assed Justice League the B-list JLA Black Canary yeah Green Arrow Wildcat Dr. Fate like Wildcat Dr.
- Speaker #0
Fate yeah like most I'm sure you didn't even know his name was Wildcat you were like oh it's Batman when he first yeah right yeah there's no difference it's literally just Batman on the fairly odd pairings it's Catman yes Adam TV's Adam West where perfect uh jsa breaks into the jsa with like no security uh fairies fairies fairy justice society uh she narrates how she's able to trip every security system they have while nobody at the jsa is home uh and does it all to leave a letter yeah
- Speaker #2
The JSA reminds me of the FDA. It's kind of serious, but not really.
- Speaker #0
And Pierce Brosnan had a hamster in his ass.
- Speaker #2
It's just a guideline.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it ends with her being like, Black Canary, I need your help. And then her getting a shit rock by the moth. Brutal shot of her getting punched right after she writes to Black Canary. And then we get into issue two. I love the art in this. Sorry, I'm going to be really going through the art because it's just...
- Speaker #1
It's beautiful.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's like right before comics became very digitized. Yeah. And... You could tell somebody sat and drew it, and then you could tell somebody inked it. Wildcat tries to stop Barbara Gordon. Like, I try to stop everybody who's like, I'm thinking about doing open mics. I'm like, you don't want no part of this, Dewey Cox. And that's basically what Wildcat tells Barbara.
- Speaker #1
You can't get addicted to it.
- Speaker #0
You can't get addicted to it. And she leaves Wildcat, and then he's with Dr. Fate. And Wildcat asks Dr. Fate, what do you see in your future? And he goes, I see triumph and tragedy. And Wildcat goes, yeah, well. I could have told you that. Meaning, she's not going to stop. She's going to continue to be a hero because that's what every hero does. Every hero has been told by someone not to be a hero. In the words of Dave Chappelle, heroes die on a comfortable desk. Ow! But she kicks ass in every frame. It goes from Dr. Fate having that Obi-Wan and Yoda thing. That boy is our last hope. No, there is another. Where he's like, so what do you see in her future, Dr. Green Eyes? And she's like, triumph and tragedy. I could have told you that. Boom, kick a motherfucker in the face. Killer Moth has got to be pissed that his adversary is a woman who made her costume from supplies from Michael's Arts and Crafts store. Yeah. And I love that they included scenes of her sewing it together. And even her being like, do all superheroes have to stitch their own costumes?
- Speaker #2
She's just a Hobby Lobby. Like, do I get a superhero?
- Speaker #0
And how do I not raise suspicion? Do I pay cash?
- Speaker #2
Like someone trying to murder someone and they freaking buy duct tape and rope and everything.
- Speaker #0
Well, three different Walmarts.
- Speaker #1
This is a big mission for Killer Moth, too, because he wants to show the criminal underworld. that he is legit and he can kidnap Bruce Wayne.
- Speaker #0
Yes, and he fails miserably. He does,
- Speaker #1
but he escapes.
- Speaker #0
He escapes, but he still got beat up by a girl. And Gordon's worried about Barbara not having a social life and invites her to a costume party. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Well, this is where that happens.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then where she stitches up the thing. And he's like, should I be a cowboy? Or should I be Aladdin or whatever, a sultan? Cops can be these two things, right? And so she shows up to the costume party in her Batgirl costume, and Gordon is kind of oblivious to it. And it's at this party where Bruce Wayne is also there in costume as a condom. I'm not really sure what he is. A clown of some sort, which is sort of fucked up if you think about the things he's done to the Joker. Yeah. He's like, if the Joker and the Riddler had a shitty opener. Cut to Robin at home with... Alfred. Yes. He watches three shows, Seinfeld, Simpsons, and the Shazam show from the 1970s. Shazam! Which makes me wonder, Shazam is an in-person character. Is it biographical, or was it like a show they made about a character that was just as campy? Yeah, that's true. Because it goes, Newman!
- Speaker #1
I know, it's like, Shazam! It's like, uh... It's like Captain America watching Star Wars. Yeah, yeah, right? It's when Windu comes in.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, and he's like, hey, that guy should be sitting in the back of the council. And as he's flipping through the channels, he sees news coverage of this thing going on at the ballroom. And he's like, oh, I got to go help. And Alfred's writing in a journal the whole time. Alfred's outside right now.
- Speaker #2
Yeah,
- Speaker #0
he's like,
- Speaker #2
I'm worn.
- Speaker #0
This is the beauty of recording a podcast in Gotham City. Robin gets on the bat cycle. Barbara goes to try to help. She's fighting Killer Moth. I saved this panel because I love... He throws his helmet at her and she just deflects. Like, at that point, go home, dog. You don't have a cool name. You don't got no swagger.
- Speaker #1
Who throws a shoe?
- Speaker #0
He keeps screaming, the kill him off is... The kill him off is like the guy who shot Ronald Reagan. Like, just lock him up. You're mentally ill. In issue three, we get her... nothing big really happens at the end of two uh decide the fact that moth gets away and then we find out batman and robin have been watching her the whole time they're like who is she and batman goes two words copyright infringement covered at issue three i love batman and robin standing on the rooftop like that with her luring right in the distance like it kind of shows their hierarchy and also no apparatus on this child and this is the only book where i've ever heard gordon give him shit for having a robin where he's like well you upset to see me commissioner he's like i would rather see you doing homework i was like wow he's never stood up to him before well issue two ends with him uh going uh who are you supposed to be? And then it picks up again. I asked you a question. What are you supposed to be? And she's like, ah, and then Robin, it looks like he's going in the kisser. Uh, I can fight her Batman. And he's like, we have to stop jumping to that. And he's like, I can take her. And then she jujitsu him into the ground and he's wearing those weird shorts. She body slams him into the ground. Uh, a moment he'll remember for the rest of his life. Probably the day he developed the pegging fetish. and he, Batman goes, this ain't no game. Bitch, you think this is a game? And he goes into one of my favorite aspects of the character, which is what the symbol of Batman means. And at the end of the book, it explains to you, in this case, what it means. And The Dark Knight, I always loved that. part where he was like, it meant to be a symbol that inspired hope. And at the end, she learns what the symbol is. And he doesn't want her running about doing it, but immediately figures out she's Barbara Gould. Yeah. Like, in two seconds. And then Moth, is that the dude in the chopper who tries taking him out?
- Speaker #1
Well, because Moth is like, he's like a dumber, evil version of Bruce. He's a millionaire who's using his millions to, like, hire a gang.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. He's like Drake. that's when he calls her Batgirl. That's why that's a pivotal moment. He goes, that's a goon line of test and fate. What a day. I get to kill Batman, Robin, and the Batgirl on the same night. My rep is made, boys. Made. And then she goes, and that was it. Hey, I'm Forever Pat Girl. I picture her to be like, what's her name from Sex and the City in her little panels.
- Speaker #1
Oh, Carrie?
- Speaker #0
Carrie, yeah. And I love this shot.
- Speaker #1
Why did I get that first?
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #2
I just, I got it, but I'm on like brain delay today.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, no. She dips out. I love this shot of them uncoordinated. Like Robin's just all ass. he's an acrobat, so he probably is doing something. Batman is just like, I'm going to make sure I don't turn into Harvey Dent. And Batgirl is seemingly going toward the fire.
- Speaker #1
Thank God it was Richard here, not Tim. Yeah. After he got scorched.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Oh, Jason. Yeah, and she even complained. She's like, I would have preferred Batwoman. But as James Brown said, man, it's wild. And Robin's got the hots for her.
- Speaker #1
He does?
- Speaker #0
They leave, and he goes, the girl disappeared. Oops. we'll be seeing her again. He goes, don't worry. Rick, I hope so. And she's like, boy, wonder has a crush on me that she gets a flashback to him flirting with her on the rooftop with Gordon and Jim Gordon doesn't like that. What's he say? This is a,
- Speaker #1
this is an appropriate, you shouldn't even be out here. I, you should be staying at all.
- Speaker #0
Back in my day, we would be doing an egg cream instead of a cream pie.
- Speaker #1
Back in my day, a dame would never show her gams, and a man would certainly never show his gams. Put some pants on, Rob.
- Speaker #0
Gams.
- Speaker #2
It's cold out.
- Speaker #0
It's February 23rd. He baby reindeers her. And then we'll get to that later, but what he does when they're on the bikes later, I'm just like, damn, dog, you got game like that at 17? Is that when they gas her, they cosplay her at the end?
- Speaker #1
I think she just gets away in this one.
- Speaker #0
She gets away and gets back home and runs into that cop who's like, you want to date Bard? Yeah. And then, oh, this is when he goes to the mob. And he's like, billion dollar idea. You guys have paid off cops, lawyers, attorneys. But what about superheroes? Solution, moth lamp. And they're like, why does everything got to have a thing now? Bat lamp. Moth lamp. Just make it a lamp. Stop it. I'm going to shine it really bright in their faces. And then. think of something. And they're like, get the fuck out of here. You owe us money now. What happens in the end of three?
- Speaker #1
So Killamoth gets his ass kicked when he tries to offer Defton money because he's, they're like, you just got your shit wrecked. Barbara's like, you know what? I'm going to keep doing this. So she gets all the supplies she needs. She gets her costume. She gets a rope. She gets a taser.
- Speaker #0
I'm going to be back, girl. I'm going to go to Michael's and get a... bodysuit with some stitching and a sewing machine. And I'm going to do it all to tell my dad, fuck you, I'm my own person.
- Speaker #1
So she's getting ready, and she's on top of a gargoyle in Gotham City. Yeah,
- Speaker #0
she's like training.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, exactly. She's going to make her first leap. She's like, this is probably a bad idea. and Batman and Robin are watching.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, that's a great shot, that picture of them. What does he say? What does Batman say?
- Speaker #1
Well, there's where she's changing, and Dick is looking at her. Sorry, Richard is looking at her, and Bat's like, look away. What are you doing?
- Speaker #0
He's like, we're not voyeurs. Look away. She's like, we're not 16. You still never really help me get over the whole. parents died in front of me thing. It took me.
- Speaker #2
Let me watch this girl change.
- Speaker #1
A lot of process trauma.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, let me look at a side titty. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
he has to join the Teen Titans, bang the first alien chick he met,
- Speaker #0
and then live with a goth girl and bang her for a few years.
- Speaker #2
Let me get a little bad titty.
- Speaker #0
Let me get a little bad titty. I want all my bad nipple sores to come from George Clooney because she's lost every single time. I mean, she's won a lot of battles, but like, for example, when she was in that store, and was fighting off the criminals. The only reason she won was because she'd been to that store before and she knew where the stuff was.
- Speaker #2
She knew where the exits were.
- Speaker #0
She missed one of the gunners. She got him by lucky shot. He threw a bag of time something at him.
- Speaker #2
Distraction tomato.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, distraction tomato. Batman has those in his belt. They're called the bat distraction tomato. She just has regular tomatoes.
- Speaker #1
So issue four, she's flying through the air. She's got a rope. The rope gets cut, and she's like, oh, shit, someone caught it. Robin catches her. And she's like, someone caught my rope. He's like, yeah, Batman did it. So she punches Robin. She's like, oh, wait, that was the one guy that was going to save me. Yeah. And then Batman saves them, and she's just like... And Batman's like, I didn't just cut the rope because I'm crazy.
- Speaker #0
You were going to die. Yeah. Your body was going to go into shock. Yeah. I'm going to make that. Exactly. And he's totally unimpressed with her. And she did not have the will of the warrior, but she persisted.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. There was like a reason he was doing it. He goes, you didn't have the proper rope. It's like, I'm not just doing this for you. It's like how you beat up homeless people.
- Speaker #0
I'm doing it to death.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Like when you do it, like you don't do it because you're crazy. You like the power dynamic. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, exactly. And because you're crazy. You have to mention it. Yeah.
- Speaker #2
I want to know
- Speaker #0
I'm better in cave dwellers they have is that where they show the training room yeah that's kind of because like Batman leaves and leaves her with Richard Grayson and he's like oh yeah watch I could you like this super cool cave watch how dangerous I could make shit and then like he's like real live bullets turn off those lights yeah like all your real life here turn off the lights activate lethal mode just to make it cool. I know a lot of Andrew Tate videos. Bruce isn't home a lot. And they have their little bond moment over that.
- Speaker #1
That is how this issue ends because Batman asks her, like, why? Yeah, and she can't answer.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, and he says, no, turn away. And then she goes, okay, fine, you're going to turn me away because I couldn't give you some 50-word essay about why I want to fight crime. But to be honest with you, Being the daughter of a police officer, I see the future of this city, and I know it's horrible, and I'm going to do my part in fighting it, whether or not you take me to court for stealing your likeness. And then Batman just sort of, at that point, doesn't, not on our radar anymore. It's similar to the Wildcat and Doctor Fate scene, where they're like, you know, don't do it anyway. That's the same thing I would have done. And he, when Robin is hooking her up, she, like, destroys, like, four Bat-cycles. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Like, Robin's like... I gotta cross it, because they know that she's Barbara Gordon. Yeah. They spray her, they give her like these. Yeah, which was weird.
- Speaker #0
That was weird. They knocked her out immediately and put her in a cave. That's how that issue started. And they're like, calm down, you're acting irrational.
- Speaker #2
Why are you so dramatic?
- Speaker #1
Is it that time of the month again?
- Speaker #2
I was just gonna say, she's on her period.
- Speaker #0
Two times they sprayed her.
- Speaker #2
They're like, what is this?
- Speaker #0
I can't take it anymore, god damn it.
- Speaker #2
I'm gonna Febreze your ass.
- Speaker #1
You're beating up criminals, you're irrational. You're do-
- Speaker #0
Stop eating Dove chocolate. It's different when we do it. It's different when we do it. We're men. We've had presidents.
- Speaker #2
We are presidents.
- Speaker #0
We've set precedents.
- Speaker #1
You had precedents.
- Speaker #0
You were a president. You have a library. Library trying to control your little narrative with books and pages and words and throwing these tomatoes on top of mannequins who are trying to buy their babies huggies.
- Speaker #1
So this issue ends with Robin giving her the suitcase.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, and with a little cute note that said, from your big old dick. Issue five. Never forget. Follet du lait. Batgirl faces off with a villain who is a pyrotechnic. He's a beavis. He's like, yeah, fire. I'm going to burn down Gotham. It's going to be great.
- Speaker #2
Pyrotechnic.
- Speaker #1
We meet Pyromania. uh it's like garfield lens like you're putting on a water towel that'd be cool uh fettle down there firefly uh we have a mission to do yeah it's fire more uh and uh yeah so what's happening there when they're in this confrontation yeah so uh killer killer moth is down on his luck no one's taking him seriously and we meet uh we he's not firefly yet but we meet the guy who will become firefly garfield And he is a special effects artist on a film shoot. Oh,
- Speaker #0
yeah.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
This is the scene. Yeah, this was intense. This was violent. Mm-hmm.
- Speaker #1
Like, his assistant's like, hey, I feel like there's too many explosives here. He's like, who's the boss?
- Speaker #0
When they're on the film set, do those mob guys just show up and go, she's one of the witnesses, and do that to her? Or the pirate, that's the scene.
- Speaker #1
It's the scene. Yeah, that's just part of the movie. Yeah. And it's just part of it. There's supposed to be an explosion.
- Speaker #0
And why did they whack her?
- Speaker #1
So that was just part of the movie. So it was all part of the movie they were filming, like the mob got shooting at her. They were all actors. Right.
- Speaker #2
So it was just These were all paid actors.
- Speaker #0
Paid actors.
- Speaker #1
And it was supposed to have just a kind of smaller explosion, but he sets off Garfield Lynn sets off a crazy huge explosion.
- Speaker #2
I was confused by that and what was real and what wasn't.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, they were filming a movie, and then because he sets off the explosion, the actress is burned to a crisp. Yeah. And the director's like
- Speaker #0
Didn't he smile?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, he's smiling. He's smiling. The director's like, her career's over.
- Speaker #2
Casting call.
- Speaker #1
Seriously, she's disfigured. We have to cancel the movie. And Garfield goes. what are you going to do with the footage? And he's like, you want the footage?
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #2
Sick, sick man.
- Speaker #0
I feel like they let Alan Moore step in for a couple of lines in that chapter because he learned a lot about the criminal underworld and how much they'll pay for certain tapes. It's gross.
- Speaker #1
That's when he meets Killer Moth because Killer Moth is complaining at the bar.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. No, no. I like it better when you explain.
- Speaker #1
but he's, yeah, they're at the bar. Killer Moth is down on his luck, and he's like, man.
- Speaker #0
Telling everybody he's Killer Moth, too. He doesn't understand the process of a secret identity.
- Speaker #1
I was going to say, can you do that in the normal voice?
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah. Sacred identity. You know, I'm hiding from the police. They're looking for a guy named Killer Moth. Yeah. So when I order a drink, I said, put it on the tab of Killer Moth. That's M-O-T-H. Moth. If you need help finding it, I have a moth lamp. It's very bright. Just so you know.
- Speaker #2
It's really loud in here. I don't know if you heard me.
- Speaker #0
I don't know if you know, moths aren't attracted to the light. It's the darkest point behind the light. The asshole. If I'm getting Jimmy Stewart, you're getting Norm. I don't even think my Norm is good. I just do it for you. I listen to you do Rocky every time in Spokane and they laughed every time and I was like, it's like watching Eddie Murphy You know,
- Speaker #1
there's still time
- Speaker #0
I can slide it right in That's about how you get hit, it's about how many times you get hit without busting
- Speaker #1
You know, this penis is pretty cool
- Speaker #0
I got Rocky two balls Is there like a... And on the next episode, Cliffhanger at the end of issue five.
- Speaker #1
So this is the debut of Firefly. He joins a partnership with Killer Moth. They want to intimidate that lead mobster. I forgot what his name is.
- Speaker #0
His name is Veal Parmesan.
- Speaker #1
We'll call him Veal Parmesan. Gene!
- Speaker #0
Gene Parmesan! Yeah, Veal Parmesan. They want to get it back at him because he's charging them protection money and they didn't... He was like Simon Cowell 2's Killer Moth idea. He was like, absolutely horrible. Get out of my system. Too much. You owe us money now because I'm never getting this time back in my life.
- Speaker #1
And they burn his house?
- Speaker #0
They burn his home house.
- Speaker #2
Burning their house.
- Speaker #0
I want to get back at Veal!
- Speaker #1
Killer Moth is gone!
- Speaker #0
Is he?
- Speaker #1
This ain't no disco!
- Speaker #0
Barbara Gordon is a cape. She did it to piss off her father who got shot in the neck with a dart. Issue six. Batgirl interrupted. Barbara juggles between being a student librarian, lesbian, and vigilante. Not a lesbian. I made that up. Her professional and personal career are at that point. You got to decide. You have one or the other.
- Speaker #2
She a picker. girls. She,
- Speaker #0
yeah, it was a big life choice. It was like, I'm ordering the clams. Does anything of great importance end in issue six?
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Issue six is the one where Gordon is kid is Gordon. Gordon is kidnapped and black Canary and, and Barbara are both on the case.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Black Canary just shows up. She's like that JLo song. I'm not always there when you call, but I'm always on time. Bitch. I needed you when I called, I was in an emergency. I was late. I, You are my emergency black canary. You are sometimes here and sometimes not. We have killed three motorcycles. I love reminiscing about death and the styles of catfights. Those other guys are chasing after dressed as...
- Speaker #1
Yeah, Gordon gets kidnapped by killer mother Firefly. But yes, not actually that. It's the squid fillies. Goddamn,
- Speaker #0
I can't shoot and drive at the same time, boy.
- Speaker #2
These darn hillbillies.
- Speaker #0
I ain't gonna talk about marriage. You got goddamn two girls on a motorcycle, man. Ain't nothing like that in my life, man. Swamp box. Swamp box.
- Speaker #1
The other two are like the Mooninites. They're like, they're stealing our identities.
- Speaker #0
They're stealing our identities. I must take them to court. It has to be small claims court. All I need to do is have a preponderance of evidence instead of proving them innocent or guilty. And so in issue seven, she is going after her daddy's kidnap. Yes.
- Speaker #1
her and Canary get to the base with the kidnappers, but then the real Killer Moth and Firefly show up, and that's how that ends.
- Speaker #0
They have a dance-off. They do.
- Speaker #1
In 7, Firefly is just like, man, fuck these imposters. He burns both the fake Firefly and the fake Killer Moth to a crisp. And Killer Moth is like, Dude, what?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, he immediately flips out. He's like, why me? Oh, jeez, man. Oh, my God. I knew arson. Now he's going to be on my soul forever. I'm going to think, oh, he could have grown old. But instead, I've turned him into an apple pie. I baked his ass.
- Speaker #2
I left him in the oven.
- Speaker #0
Killer Mark does not have a mission in this life. That's what he's lacking. Moth. That's the thing, you know?
- Speaker #2
He just fucking hates everything.
- Speaker #0
I like that this story continuously points out how cartoonish these guys'names are.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, like, it's got a moth.
- Speaker #0
Moths suck. They're scary, though. Up close, I wouldn't, like... Up close? Them white powdery devils? They're like powdered donuts that have wings that want to do stuff to your mouth.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, this one was the, uh... He gets burned to, uh... He burns them to a crisp. Kill a moth's like, what? they end up escaping. That guy, Officer Bard, got shot in the kneecaps. So he, like, I don't think he's crippled, but he can't be a police officer anymore.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, no.
- Speaker #0
And he's like, thank God. I got hurt in the line of duty. I got a pension. I'm going to open up a base and tackle shop and be so racist. And there's not a fucking thing they can do about it.
- Speaker #2
And I'm moving down south.
- Speaker #0
Fuck it. I'm moving south.
- Speaker #2
I don't like the cold.
- Speaker #0
I can finally fly that damn flag, and I have to tell them about my history.
- Speaker #1
Not my Gotham City.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, uh, Jason, we think you may have suffered severe brain damage.
- Speaker #2
You might have also had a concussion.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, you tried masturbating in front of a vending machine earlier. Uh, we definitely, if you're shooting at that, you are gonna be, we can't trust you with your surgery. Don't worry,
- Speaker #1
I drink better when I drive.
- Speaker #0
Drink better when I drive, baby. How you doin', Papa Gordon? Come on over and move bars, big toe. Mama, how y'all doin', baby? Continually fucked up. Doesn't he get fucked up again at the show? Yeah. basically seven just ends with uh barbara's like all right it's not working out with uh black canary maybe i'll go out with robin again yeah she she's like every i've known her for four hours and she saved my life once in every hour hi this is not good i think she likes robin because he is obviously very skilled and very trained and not just like a great twink yes yeah uh and you could say that because you are one um uh but uh he he's trained as a jewish king and he's got he's a acrobat too so like I think she respects his level of gangsta on top of him understanding all the gadgets. And the bond that they sort of share immediately is she, he even says, like, I could tell you my dad studied with a bunch of Tibetan ninjas and you wouldn't believe me. So what's it matter what my backstory is? And they're just like, all right, let's go stop this guy who is wreaking havoc. And then he takes her on a really long journey to go take down a man who's only made an appearance in the animated series. And Will Diamond got us a figure. The. Condiment King. Condiment King or man? Condiment King. Yeah. Who his power is exactly what you think it is. He just...
- Speaker #2
Mustard.
- Speaker #0
Staining shirt.
- Speaker #2
I'm going to spread my mustard.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. He's just money shotting all over everyone. And Batgirl and Robin stop her. And she's like, you brought me out here all the way for this. And he actually makes a fair point. He's like, listen, would you take a guy named the Penguin seriously?
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Let's go see if the Condiment King doesn't have a bomb strapped to his chest on top of all the white sauce he's been...
- Speaker #1
And she goes, you take this too seriously. And he goes, maybe you need to take this more seriously.
- Speaker #0
And he leans in and kisses her while they're on motorcycles. That game.
- Speaker #1
Watching the whole thing,
- Speaker #0
he's like... The boy wonders. My man. And she's like not totally turned off by it. She like Padme's it. She's like... uh call me in four years yeah that's a red light and uh yeah uh literally um and uh that is the end of that chapter right the kiss and then her project yeah well they fight that guy blockbuster who oh yeah how to make uh video stores go out of business yes and turn them in the fronts for uh uh
- Speaker #2
uh hollywood video yes
- Speaker #0
Who Batman threw into a vat of economic downfall 10 years prior.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, because it ends with Barbara beats him on her own. She beats Blockbuster. Batman's been watching the whole time. So you realize Robin isn't just hooking Barbara up with stuff. Batman's been encouraging it. But Gordon sees red hair at the scene, and he realizes he's not going to.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, and Arkham Knight did a really good job at him completely doing a 180 on Batman when she got shot and realized that he knew the whole time that she was Oracle. And it was Mike Ehrmantraut who did the voice for Gordon. We found out Bruce knew that Barbara was his daughter, and he was like, how could you let me do this all these years? It's your fault she's missing, Walter. And in issue nine, turning points, the final issue of Batgirl, we see her fully established as a respected hero.
- Speaker #1
So issue nine.
- Speaker #0
Yes, sir.
- Speaker #1
So Firefly and Killer Moth are on the move. They're in a helicopter. They are burning. They're burning. ...the town to the ground, and Batman and Robin don't have a way to take them out without using lethal force. So they leave it to Batgirl, and she ends up...
- Speaker #0
She goes, this way, we won't be blamed. She goes,
- Speaker #1
don't blame it on Batman.
- Speaker #0
Don't blame it on Robin. Don't blame it on Alfred. Blame it on Batgirl.
- Speaker #1
She uses the tether line that they gave her to tether the helicopter. to a building, and they get tossed from it.
- Speaker #0
He missed!
- Speaker #2
Yeah! And then Batman cuts that. He's like, hey, hey, got you a friend.
- Speaker #0
I haven't been on your side.
- Speaker #2
Get better at rope,
- Speaker #0
bitch! Yeah, and what happens after that? Yeah,
- Speaker #1
so they're defeated using non-lethal force. They go to Arkham.
- Speaker #0
The last five pages are so powerful, and they're so beautiful, and when I read them, and I like, I've read this before. I had one of those goosebumps, couldn't breathe moments because I was like, oh, I'm in this book. Like, we relate to characters. I've never blown up the Death Star, but I know what it's like to live in a town and want to get out of it and be something greater. We relate to the smaller story. The smaller story is more important than the bigger story. They've done an incredible job at knowing the small story here is Barbara trying to feel, not validated as Batgirl, but just looked at as a person.
- Speaker #1
She wants agency.
- Speaker #0
And she wants agency, and when you find out... But when Batman asks her what the reason why is and she figures it out, she gets the full clarity. And that's what I think is so important about this book. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
because he takes her to the Batcave and he goes, this is...
- Speaker #0
Doesn't knock her out this time.
- Speaker #1
Doesn't knock her out this time. Less problematic. And he goes, this is your world. And she just sees Killer Moth and Firefly and she beats them. He goes, if you leave now, you'll only have to worry about these two clowns.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Oh, my God. This is so great.
- Speaker #1
But then he goes, this is my world.
- Speaker #0
If you don't walk away, this is your future. And she's surrounded by Mr. French Fries. He's... Freeze, for short. Poison Ivy. Cumface. The Rid of the Diller. Solomon Grundy. I don't know who that dude with the tail is.
- Speaker #1
That's Copperhead.
- Speaker #0
Oh, right. I'm only used to seeing the Justice League Unlimited person.
- Speaker #1
I think that's I think that's Two-Face.
- Speaker #0
Oh, yeah, because in the next panel, he punches him, and he has two halves of a face. Catwoman, yeah. He's like, you're going to scissor the shit out of her. And that Joker shot, man, is menacing.
- Speaker #1
You know why?
- Speaker #0
That's exactly the shot from the killing joke before he paralyzes her. You know that's our masturbation hand.
- Speaker #2
Nerd.
- Speaker #0
That's what he does. He's wearing a different outfit. He's wearing a Hawaiian shirt. Well,
- Speaker #2
yeah, fashion baby.
- Speaker #0
Celebrating.
- Speaker #1
You pick up on that.
- Speaker #0
I'm picking up what you're putting down, dog. We ain't getting no pussy. Oh, God. But I've been reading this book.
- Speaker #1
Dude, my nipples are rock hard right now.
- Speaker #0
Oh, man. I would say some things if I didn't want this podcast to get monetized. Yeah. every shot of the Joker in this, like, I mean, she has the fights with freeze and with copperhead and then, uh, free shoots clay face. And, uh, she fights freeze and poison Ivy, but the Joker looms large over her. And she says, if this is my future, I'm not afraid of it. Uh, and he goes, Alfred stage lights. And she goes, Alfred, cause she'd been calling them Jeeves the whole time. Yeah. Uh, and the first issue, she called him Siri. which is weird because it's 2003. And he goes, do you swear to take an oath? And she goes, anytime, anywhere. And he goes,
- Speaker #1
in brightest day, in darkest night, no evil shall be given by us.
- Speaker #0
The Joker worships people's spite. What he's done and can live a happy long life. Unlike those children who he blew up the hospital of.
- Speaker #2
And if I die before I...
- Speaker #0
She... If I die before I wake. She goes, she goes, take this oath. And he goes, come with me. and she goes, it all makes sense, the expensive toys, the time and devotion, the reason. He unmasks, and he stands in front of the graves of his parents, and she knows now, because you mentioned earlier in the book, Batman's got to be rich to afford all this stuff, because she couldn't afford it. She had to buy all her own Batgirl shit, and the reason what Batman means, why he said she didn't deserve to wear that symbol, because she didn't understand it yet, it breaks down to these three core promises. Which, you know, Batman's a symbol meant to inspire people. He doesn't want to do this forever. He can't. I promise loyalty. I promise secrecy. And I promise courage. That's the symbol. That's what the symbol of hope is, if I had to put it into a definition. That's what he means. and why he doesn't like those guys dressed up in hockey pads going, that's not exactly what I meant when I wanted to inspire people because they're not ready for that. Yeah. He had to put her through a vigorous routine and interview process to make sure she was ready to take that risk. And the three of them standing on that hill while he's explaining to her what the oath is.
- Speaker #2
So good.
- Speaker #0
Because this is pre-Nightwing. This is like. Early start to the days, and then you see Gordon. He goes up to Gordon, and he goes, I'd like to introduce you to an associate, a new partner under my supervision. And he goes, oh, I've been waiting for you to come through. And I got a dynamite stick and now they're putting it to my daughter. And then Batgirl drops down, and it's not Batgirl. Because they pulled a fast one on him. She comes up out of the elevator and goes, Hi, Daddy, it's little old me. Want a piece of this pie?
- Speaker #2
I was just in the bathroom.
- Speaker #0
I've been not creating an alibi this entire time. I'm waiting for my cue like I'm in a sitcom set. You know what I mean?
- Speaker #1
But how is that possible? You're just on the road.
- Speaker #0
Daddy, don't you know two people can have the same color hair?
- Speaker #1
That's crazy. I'm so happy I'm fighting crime. Go back to the library.
- Speaker #0
And she ends it by saying to connect it back. To Cassandra, she goes. despite my great and abiding respect for oracles, I've decided to forgo predictions. This is the line that I love. I don't want to butcher it. And the last panel is her fighting scarecrow, setting up a new series. She goes, there is what could be, and there is the life I lead right now. And the final panel is Batman's emblem, Robin's emblem, not face. Hers is the only face. And it says,
- Speaker #2
not the end.
- Speaker #0
And it's, perfect. Yeah. It's such a Taoist thing and it's the life of a crime fighter, man. Yeah. Because she learned the most important lesson, which is the day you stop learning is the day you die.
- Speaker #1
And we as the viewer, we know what's going to happen to her. Right. We know the fate that awaits Barbara. Yeah. But she's like, you know what? I don't care because this is what I meant to do.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
And honestly, this was a deserved... her flowers moment. Gail Simone is the only person I can think of that gets any credit for writing any Batgirl. This is the perfect story, and she's not, it really doesn't rely on, I mean, you could say it relies on men in the Gordon sense, but it's not, it's still independent. Nothing she does has to do with a guy. She's proving herself. and it's the interesting thing is it's written by a man and it's like calling you a female comic yeah call me a comic say I killed for 20 minutes and not don't follow it up with and I was surprised because you were a woman yeah yeah because then when you
- Speaker #2
When you make it a thing, it's a thing. Yeah. It doesn't need to be a thing. Yeah, right. You know what I mean?
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
It's acting an unnecessary qualifier. Yeah. It's a faux pas. I think it's great. I think it's a really cool story.
- Speaker #0
It made you like women again, right? Yeah, yeah,
- Speaker #1
yeah. I'm getting there. I love I have a sister.
- Speaker #0
That's why he hates women.
- Speaker #1
80% women. No, it was... I thought it was a great book. I really like when... I feel like this is... It's like a referendum on Alan Moore. Yes!
- Speaker #0
Yeah, that's the point.
- Speaker #1
Killing Joke is a great book. It's a fantastic read. But the thing that happens to Barbara in it doesn't need to necessarily happen. Because the whole point of Killing Joke is Joker's plan is to drive Gordon insane to show one bad day can drive a person crazy and he shoots and paralyzes Barbara in it.
- Speaker #0
And possibly... as A's her.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, and we talked about this in the Watchmen episode where Alan Moore does have a bad track record of gratuitous and unnecessary essay in his stories.
- Speaker #0
And this shows you you can have a silly character like the Moth still have high stakes that get transformed and turned into one thing that leads into another. And then you go, that's the perfect first villain for you. It's perfect first role. Like how Vulture was the first perfect one for Tom Holland's Spider-Man. Like they were both still kind of getting their shit together. and it's a really great point. I didn't think about that. Man, this is, I wish they would do more. I wish we got the Batwoman movie. I think they would kill with a Batgirl animated show. I would love a Batgirl show. Totally. You could do a Birds of Prey show really well. You could have her and Huntress and Black Canary. You true believers, we're on Apple Podcasts. We're on Spotify. We are on YouTube. You could also get us on Twitter and Instagram.
- Speaker #1
Hey there,
- Speaker #0
true believers, it's me, Stan the Man Lee. Gee whiz, wasn't that a spectacular video? If you liked that and want more, try clicking one of the videos you see on the screen now. And don't forget to like this video and subscribe for more. And as always, true believers, Excelsior!
