Description

What does it truly mean to be a hero in a city plagued by crime and homelessness? Join hosts Slater Harrison, Brent Birnbaum, and Troy Bond in this exciting episode of Secret Identity as they dive deep into the pages of "Nightwing: Leap into the Light," masterfully penned by Tom Taylor. With a perfect blend of playful banter and insightful analysis, the hosts explore the intricate dynamics between Nightwing and his allies, including Oracle and Robin, while confronting the formidable new villain, Heartless. As they unravel the complexities of Nightwing's character, listeners will gain a deeper understanding of his quest for identity and the moral responsibilities that come with being a superhero. The discussion also shines a light on the legacy of Alfred Pennyworth, illustrating how his influence shapes Nightwing's mission in Bloodhaven, a city rife with challenges. This episode not only highlights the significance of community and connection but also poses thought-provoking questions about the role of superheroes in addressing societal issues, making it an essential listen for comic book fans and those intrigued by the deeper themes of heroism. Tune in to Secret Identity for a rich exploration of Nightwing's journey and its broader implications within the DC universe!

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Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Welcome to Secret Identity. I am the Oracle, Slater Harrison, accompanied by the creators and co-hosts of this podcast, Mr. Wonderboy, Brent Birnbaum.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Boy Wonder.

• Speaker #0

  I said Wonderboy.

• Speaker #1

  Wonderboy sounds like a Brent. What? We're not rolling it back?

• Speaker #0

  That was my 80th attempt. And we have the wonderful Batman's bitch over here, Troy Bond.

• Speaker #1

  Would Batman's bitch be Ace?

• Speaker #2

  Batman's, well, he's a boy. So Batman's bitch would be Barbara.

• Speaker #1

  I really disagree with that.

• Speaker #2

  He's like maybe the third or fourth most important person in Batman.

• Speaker #1

  Frankly, Batman's number two after the commissioner. It's important to highlight your civil servants. As much as a penny worth.

• Speaker #2

  I got this book in Vancouver. Tell us about who we're dealing with in Nightwing Leap into the Light by Tom Taylor.

• Speaker #1

  And art by Bruno Rindando. Bruno Rindando.

• Speaker #0

  24-karat images in the air.

• Speaker #1

  So we don't have that many main characters in this, which actually helps streamline the story.

• Speaker #2

  As everyone knows. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  So we have Nightwing. We just talked about who that is. We have Barbara Corden, Oracle. So that's Richard's closest ally and love interest, supporting him in the field and through her technological expertise. Next up, we have Tim Drake Robin. So he's kind of Richard's little brother in the Bat family, helping him reconnect with his mission. It's interesting because Richard calls him the many people would say he's the best Robin and I wouldn't disagree with them. And I was like, oh, that's kind of cool.

• Speaker #2

  Well, I had a question. I guess the discontinuity, it's a different or this is starting a story. But I saw that Damien. is also in the Bat-Fam in this book. Are there just two Robins?

• Speaker #1

  I think there must just be two Robins. I know at one point he was Red Robin, but I feel like they're probably just like that.

• Speaker #2

  There's just two, because in the Titan show, there's two Robins. Okay, I was just wondering about that. I guess it doesn't really matter.

• Speaker #1

  That's the thing with DC. I mean, this is like New 52 or whatever. There was a reboot.

• Speaker #2

  Is she just walking because of the prosthetics that she gets? Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  Tony Zuko died in Nightfall, but now he's alive again. Moroni died in Long Halloween, but he's alive again.

• Speaker #2

  So this is New 52 continuity? Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, okay. And that's why it's kind of hard to keep up. Got you. Next up, Robin. Next up. We have Blockbuster, a crime lord.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, they just ran out of crime boss names.

• Speaker #1

  It's big rewind, boss.

• Speaker #0

  Be kind.

• Speaker #2

  You got to rewind.

• Speaker #0

  Boy's going to bust you. I know.

• Speaker #1

  It looks like they just took Tombstone from the Marvel comics.

• Speaker #2

  I was like, he's the Magia. Yeah, exactly.

• Speaker #1

  I'm sure someone's going to point out he came out before Tombstone. Ew. Hey, it's the bet. Now, this villain was cool, Heartless. Yes. A new villain who literally steals people's hearts, posing a grim threat to Bloodhaven.

• Speaker #0

  How could you be so heartless?

• Speaker #1

  So we don't find this out in this story, but I think it's worth noting because I thought this was so crazy. And actually, because I ended up finishing this run because I wanted to see what happened with Heartless. And it just finished in October. Oh, good. So Heartless is actually Shelton Lyle. So he's the bully at the beginning of the story. Oh, we were wondering about that. What? Beating up and Richard knocks his teeth out. That's heartless. Wow.

• Speaker #0

  He was teethless and then he went heartless. Wow. Yeah. Damn.

• Speaker #1

  Because remember at the end of the story, we see Heartless talking to a butler. Turns out he's basically a evil version of Richard Grayson because his butler, it turns out he was rich and he was wealthy and his butler was a serial killer. And so he finds out that this guy, Sheldon Lyle, has psychopathic and sociopathic tendencies, so he turns him into this guy Heartless. Whoa.

• Speaker #2

  I've got to finish this run.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And he's, there is nothing sympathetic about this villain.

• Speaker #2

  About Heartless?

• Speaker #1

  He's a guy who likes watching parents die, like, because he enjoys the pain he sees on the kids'faces, and he's got to get up and...

• Speaker #2

  Is he having fun with parents, or they're just rich parents?

• Speaker #1

  They were just rich parents, but he ends up... he ends up helping to kill them and then he has cybernetic enhancements and his heart can't handle it so that's why he steals other people's hearts oh yeah because he had a whole wall of them and then yeah like you sick fuck i do it because god made me good looking bastard that's that's so weird because i've never heard of heartless i mean

• Speaker #0

  in the book. I mean,

• Speaker #1

  he's your favorite musician. Of course you've heard of Heartless.

• Speaker #0

  Of course, I love him. But like, yeah, that's like a crazy cool character. And I'm so happy that you went forward and figured out the connection of who it was.

• Speaker #1

  I was just so curious. And then when I like, well, I was like, when I, when they did that, I'm sorry for spoiling that for you. I won't let you know how it ends. It literally just ended like three months ago.

• Speaker #2

  I was going to ask about that because this was like good venom where like you can keep going because this was like the start of a great arc. So I was wondering if you read ahead.

• Speaker #1

  Incredible villain. I mean, because he looks like Red Axe on Teen Titans. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  And like even at the end when they had the red suit or in one of the comics, I was like, well, is that Red Robin? Or I guess.

• Speaker #0

  I guess they kind of do drop that little hint because remember we were talking about it before.

• Speaker #2

  And he took everything.

• Speaker #0

  At the end. And he's like, he made me who I am, though.

• Speaker #1

  Right. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, but not in a good way.

• Speaker #1

  And he says he was my first.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, yeah, because the fight in the schoolyard. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, man.

• Speaker #2

  Wow. Love that. We got that on hardness. Who else is in this?

• Speaker #1

  Melinda Zuko, Dick's estranged sister and new mayor of Bloodhaven, whose ties to the criminal underworld complicate their relationship. She can get it.

• Speaker #2

  I knew it. I wasn't even going to ask.

• Speaker #0

  Wait, who was that?

• Speaker #1

  Melinda Zuko.

• Speaker #2

  Oh. His sister.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I knew you would like her. Yeah, I would even say you loved her.

• Speaker #1

  Don't go to those pages. Doc,

• Speaker #2

  I broke my arm in 12 pages. Don't go to those pages.

• Speaker #1

  And then lastly,

• Speaker #0

  I found my Dick Grayson.

• Speaker #1

  What was that about my Dick Grayson?

• Speaker #2

  Tried to, like, you know, clap the cheeks and flat stand.

• Speaker #1

  Like, oh, my God. It's like, I don't know why I'm hanging out with Barbara when I could be hanging out with Heartless. Uh, lastly, we have Alfred Pennyworth. So although deceased, Alfred's legacy and bequeathal of his wealth really shapes, uh, Richard's mission.

• Speaker #2

  And with that, and with that, give us, this is six issues, volume one through six.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. So six parts. And it starts with issue number 78 of Nightwing, uh, because it was an ongoing series.

• Speaker #2

  Gotcha. And, uh, what do we begin with? What's our first issue?

• Speaker #1

  Uh, issue 78. So part one. So after rediscovering Alfred's letter and inheritance. Richard reflects on his life and mission as Nightwing. He saves a young dog from a brutal attack by thugs and begins questioning how he can make a lasting difference in Bloodhaven. Barbara Gordon visits and helps Richard manage his new responsibilities while rekindling their partnership. Blockbuster kills the mayor, making Melinda Zuko, who was the council president, the new mayor. It's really hard to replace all of the dicks with Richards.

• Speaker #2

  I know, I know, sorry.

• Speaker #1

  No, no, no, no, it's the right move to do. What I like about Barbara Gordon, she reminds me of my friend Natalie.

• Speaker #2

  I wish she'd rest next to SpongeBob.

• Speaker #1

  I wish she'd know how to swim.

• Speaker #2

  I love the dog.

• Speaker #1

  I know. Slight wing.

• Speaker #0

  But then he said he was going to name him Hallie.

• Speaker #1

  But they said you could have two names.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, because he's-Or she could have two names.

• Speaker #2

  You're not used to having-Hallie or Haley,

• Speaker #0

  I don't know, because he's naming it after the circus ring guy, right? Mr. Hallie.

• Speaker #2

  Oh.

• Speaker #1

  I didn't even-I thought it was after Hallie's comment. Oh, it's-I just saw Haley.

• Speaker #0

  They spelled it different, but I-

• Speaker #2

  thought maybe there was a connection there i don't know the best uh cover yes whole book oh my god here because at the bottom that's burt ward's costume right and then one robin had yeah uh then here we got 80s nightwing then we got the mullet right here as we see an animated series then this is the costume that he's his first one i guess they're trying or animated series inspired yes i'd say uh I never really liked the red.

• Speaker #1

  I didn't like it either.

• Speaker #2

  It was too close to Robin, and I'm a sucker for the whites in the eyes. I love the whites in the eyes, and I love that being up here.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, and good transition because Barbara Gordon visits and helps Richard manage his new responsibilities while rekindling their partnership. Blockbuster kills the mayor, making Melinda Zuko, who is the council president, the new mayor.

• Speaker #2

  And here's the Teen Titans right here, Slater. So from left to right, you got Speedy. Then this right here is Starfire. Then the.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, he's like about to touch her cooch.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Well, they were.

• Speaker #2

  I'm going to learn the other language.

• Speaker #0

  He's like, you can kiss up here. I'm going to kiss down there.

• Speaker #2

  On Earth, we kiss below. Then the hooded.

• Speaker #1

  I could do the alphabet backwards. Yo, if by alphabet, you mean suck dick.

• Speaker #0

  I'm an alpha boy.

• Speaker #2

  Raven next to him on his right shoulder. Then behind him, that's a cyborg. That's who everybody thought Victor was in the Penguin for a while. Then they said he was Victor's ass. Then. Next to him is Garfield, Logan, Beast Boy, Logan Garfield.

• Speaker #0

  He looks like the green giant spinach guy. Oh,

• Speaker #1

  please,

• Speaker #2

  Beast Boy. Then Kid Flash and Donna Troy.

• Speaker #1

  And that's Wally, right?

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. Because he's Barry's sidekick, right? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Loved. This was really great. I loved seeing. So I guess that's Damien right there.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, so we have Damien, Jason, Tim, and Richard Grayson. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  And this right here is Jason.

• Speaker #0

  It's got to look the same.

• Speaker #2

  Jason became the Red Hood.

• Speaker #0

  We got to get a blonde in there.

• Speaker #2

  Well, that's the thing. It's like they're all supposed to look the same. So if Bruce was changing wards all the time and then he'd also have these Robins. be suspect so like and for a while it was they had to have buzz cuts and all looked the same so it wouldn't matter whoever was behind the mask oh their mask that doesn't cover their head that makes sense but it's just like this mess like if you could tell i feel like jason hides his identity pretty well that's what i was gonna say like jason's thing there is the red hood and remember from killing joke that was the jokers yeah no i love that and he took it on because jokers who killed him uh when he blew him up um

• Speaker #1

  So Richard begins helping the homeless by buying them pizza and booking a hotel room for a man, Martin, and his son. Soon after booking the room, though, Martin is murdered by Heartless.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, that was really... That sucked. That was sad. For no reason. At least the kid survived.

• Speaker #2

  Kidding it out, yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Well, he wanted him to survive because he wanted to see him watch his dad die.

• Speaker #0

  What is up with people getting off killing parents?

• Speaker #2

  I'm like,

• Speaker #0

  who made this a thing? Like, this is the biggest comic book threat.

• Speaker #2

  Most important person in your life when you're a kid. And then when they're taken away, what happens when that kid grows up in a city that's cold and doesn't care?

• Speaker #1

  But that's what makes him so evil. Because I don't think Joe Chill was like, oh, I need to kill this guy's parents. He was starving.

• Speaker #2

  Batman Begins did really not. Like, highlight him as being, you know, it was Gotham's poverty that killed the Waynes. Not Joe Chill, really.

• Speaker #1

  Our methods have gotten more advanced. In Gotham, we tried economics.

• Speaker #2

  Now we will try Bitcoin.

• Speaker #1

  I don't... Hawk to a coin.

• Speaker #2

  Spit on that thing. It's a wet machine.

• Speaker #1

  We'll just spit on that thing. Possibly I invested my life savings in that.

• Speaker #0

  You've ruined my life,

• Speaker #1

  Hawk to a...

• Speaker #0

  Wet coin.

• Speaker #1

  And so, yeah, then as Richard investigates some teens who stole his wallet, he discovers a tent city where many homeless kids without parents are living.

• Speaker #0

  And he is ripped.

• Speaker #1

  He is rattled, too.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, what is his little, like, frickin'nunchuck circus fuckin'hanging things that he's using?

• Speaker #2

  I'll tell you.

• Speaker #0

  Like, what are those?

• Speaker #1

  Batons.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah? I used to do batons.

• Speaker #2

  I haven't written that.

• Speaker #0

  On and around.

• Speaker #1

  Did you?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I did the cartwheel behind the back.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, wow. Were you a cheerleader?

• Speaker #0

  I was in the Memorial Day parades. No, there was just a baton squad.

• Speaker #2

  He wasn't colored.

• Speaker #0

  I was really cool back in the day.

• Speaker #1

  76 trombones left the big parade. 110 coordinates right behind.

• Speaker #2

  Then this is when he's at Tent City. Beautiful. Just.

• Speaker #1

  contrast of like the lights in the background and then just shadows illuminating the kids underneath the city that's skid row right yeah you should see a little shot before oh my god and when he and when he says that this sequence at the end when he's like i want to catch the people who've fallen yeah i want to be a safety net

• Speaker #2

  for this city even at the end where he was like why are you putting all this money into the homelessness he's like well it's urgent because it's getting colder like that's my category line yeah and then yeah i mean brutal alleyways in gotham or he wants to catch the people who have fallen like him in the circus is he saying this on purpose yeah well i mean he's unconsciously able to catch you ryan or you rhyme just there yeah yeah and there's just a lot of parallels i'm rhyming it's like when you pointed out that the Joker's wife was using the baby bottle opener. Yeah. Heater. Like, here's some of the lies. That's a good one.

• Speaker #1

  Or when you pointed out that in The Last Ronin, the real main character was April O'Neil because of how she was able to raise a baby with one arm in the sewers. Thank you, Kevin and Peter. You, my friends, are the real heroes.

• Speaker #2

  And that's coming from BJ.

• Speaker #1

  The white man's perspective on the Bechdel test.

• Speaker #2

  That's great.

• Speaker #1

  So Richard is accused of Martin's murder, but Barbara provides him an ally. alibi uh tim comes to blood haven to help richard and he goes undercover in the tent city to look for martin's son yeah the i love just their banter here like he goes and opens the door how's it going being accused of murder you why do they make him so hot too yeah

• Speaker #2

  even when he has bad for bad he's a martial artist there's many interesting grayson he's so hot if your algorithm is all dick racing oh no he's hot

• Speaker #0

  This is the first comic where I was actually sexually attracted to one of the characters.

• Speaker #1

  After Howard the Duck.

• Speaker #0

  Well, yeah, obviously.

• Speaker #2

  I do love, he's already like taken on the Batman, the gargoyle statue thing. And then he refers to him as like.

• Speaker #1

  Next Batman. Yeah. Pass the mantle on to Tim and then pass it on to Terry.

• Speaker #2

  Never Azrael.

• Speaker #1

  Never, no. Fuck that guy.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, I think that's the best. And also lifespan wise too, like Bruce probably wouldn't give it up till he was 60. I say 60 because I'm going to stop Batman-ing. Then yeah, Tim, Tim until, you know, how long could Tim do realistically? Probably about 30 years. He started as a child soldier, unlike Bruce. And then three being Terry. Yeah, because Terry is Bruce. Yeah. You know, so that's, yeah. Yeah, I like that. That's, that's good. I also love the wallet thing, how they never let him. forget that my wallet's gone my wallet's gone it's gone like even when uh bat he goes uh batman wanted me to give you something it's a wallet i know it means kids can't steal your money and as an adiponous you can add a soft metal band in the early 2000s it's such a silly thing but i love the group me the group chat yeah the group chat great

• Speaker #0

  so funny how fun i love it and cast is just emojing it up like a mofo sandra is the deaf one right

• Speaker #1

  Yes, I believe so. I think she's Batwoman.

• Speaker #2

  She's Batwoman. Yeah. And who's Bat... Oh, Barb's Batwoman. Who's Steph?

• Speaker #1

  Steph? Steph, I believe, was one of the original Robins. I don't know how she's back into it, though.

• Speaker #2

  A Lady Robin? Fucking Lady Robin?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I mean...

• Speaker #2

  In the states you don't have?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, so three ends with Tim and Richard fight off some of Blockbuster's goons who have come to shake down the tent city, which is ridiculous that these guys are shaking down... What are you going to get out of this? Yeah, like, what are you doing?

• Speaker #2

  Give me all your V-Bucks.

• Speaker #0

  And then, yeah, brutal.

• Speaker #1

  And then Heartless shows up and starts a fire.

• Speaker #0

  Parents, kids, dogs. They had a gun to the freaking bite wing. Why? Why is that necessary?

• Speaker #1

  I mean, it was a license to steal. It was a license to do whatever they want.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, but there's no, no.

• Speaker #2

  I guess to show you just.

• Speaker #0

  The limit does not exist.

• Speaker #2

  There's nobody more innocent than kids. And I guess if you really want to cement a villain as being a, not to mess around with. Yeah, you know, you could make them go after kids. Um.

• Speaker #1

  And that's the thing. So they take down Blockbuster's goons, and then Heartless shows up, and he just starts a fire on the Ten Cities, taking away the only thing they have. And then issue four is when Nightwing fights Heartless.

• Speaker #2

  Heartless is just... It almost looks like the Black Mask dude on Squid Game.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, yeah, the front man. Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  the front man. This was a really good one, too.

• Speaker #1

  That was a great one.

• Speaker #2

  I love the R. I never really liked Nightwing's insignia, but I love... I just love this. This is so great to me. And also just, it makes me laugh every time. Cause it's like, why, why are you all in, in, in dark colors, Batman? So I don't get shot at. Why am I in bright colors, Batman? So I don't get shot at. What is the deal with the penguin? We think it was him. Why? Cause he was dressed like a penguin. Uh, then we got Brent's girlfriend from Canada, Melinda Zuko.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, God, Melinda. So, yes. So, in this issue, issue four, Nightwing fights Heartless. And he notices that Heartless is enhanced, but he's not skilled. So, Heartless is losing. So, Heartless... What does that mean,

• Speaker #0

  enhanced?

• Speaker #1

  As in, like, he's got, like... He notices he's got, like, super strength, super speed. Like, he has cybernetic enhancements. Okay. But he's,

• Speaker #0

  like... And he can just tell that? Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  well, he can tell that he's just stronger and faster than normal. He's like, that's not what a normal punch should feel like.

• Speaker #2

  He's an expert martial artist, too. He's always looking at combat style, looking at... Okay.

• Speaker #1

  And so he knows this guy's no idea what he's doing in a fight, too. So he's like, oh, I can beat him. Yeah. Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  yeah, yeah. And it's probably, he probably was looking at his cybernetic first and going, oh, this guy's got an enhancement. And then after watching him deal with it for a little bit, he's like, it's like if Darth Vader didn't have the force and he got his arms and legs cut off, he would have those cybernetics, but he's got no skill to back it up.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, yeah. He said that he doesn't put in the work. Yeah. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. This is a great scene, too. So Heartless, to get away, he blows up the pier. Yeah. And he tells Richard, he's like.

• Speaker #2

  I cried in there.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, he's like, he's like. nothing's gonna happen he goes they're gonna die and richard's like i believe in the city and he sends out the sos but haven't show them you're worth waiting for yeah that was nice they were quick on that call those ships came in a hurry yeah they were in three minutes yeah so good and it's also like jimmy john's yeah i

• Speaker #0

  got you in three minutes oh bite wing why are we so cute what kind of dog is she do we know um gray

• Speaker #2

  gray with a little cocaine nose down she's so when he wakes up from this coma he runs and he finds out about mayor zuko and i like that name because that's the daughter of the guy who killed his parents so he thinks and and what happens yeah so he basically investigates melinda zuko and

• Speaker #1

  she tells him she's his sister

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, that was crazy.

• Speaker #2

  How did you feel about this at first? Because I didn't like it. And then once I saw the story, I was like, okay, this is, I don't really like this.

• Speaker #1

  I liked it when she got stuck in the dryer.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, I, you can just keep that book, to be honest with you. I got it on my iPad. I don't really need it anymore. I love, this is.

• Speaker #1

  That was cool.

• Speaker #2

  I learned this from Auntie Catwoman.

• Speaker #1

  That actually reminded me a lot of David Aja's art. particularly like in Immortal Iron Fist and Hawkeye, just like the way you see like the little shapes being made. Like you remember how in Iron Fist, every time he would punch or kick someone, they'd show the portion of the body where they get exactly. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  The color scheme is like the Hawkeye, you know? Yeah. And this was one of my favorite frames here where he's breaking in and he sees...

• Speaker #0

  I'm not planning on doing anything.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. And just his narrow... Oh, yeah, maybe I shouldn't be breaking into a building when I just woke up from a concussion. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  and then he falls down the stairs.

• Speaker #2

  Falls down and gets rocked again. Sounds like someone I know. Yeah. Yeah, well, what can you say? It's hard.

• Speaker #1

  I'm going to make this mask disappear. See, it's gone.

• Speaker #2

  It also...

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, but that's the thing, guys. Like, if I just had a thing right here, you would still know it was me.

• Speaker #2

  Because I know you.

• Speaker #1

  I wouldn't, but I'm a moron.

• Speaker #2

  Think from like facial.

• Speaker #1

  So five, we learned Melinda. This was a cool story. We learned Melinda's mom was a foreign bride of Tony Zuko, and she was absolutely abused by him. So she escaped to the circus with John Grayson's help.

• Speaker #0

  Naturally.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. But that was a cool scene. How like John and Melinda like cover for her.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, no, that was cool. I liked it.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, and she's like, this is the family that I always wanted.

• Speaker #0

  And I feel like they did this flashback since it was like back in the day. They did it like grainy. Oh, yeah. The rest of it is like HD.

• Speaker #2

  It looks like those old Kirby comics.

• Speaker #0

  In the past. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  And I also just realized what colors he was wearing. Them's his Rastafari.

• Speaker #1

  Oh. John had a relationship with Melinda's mom, which led to the birth of Melinda. But then Tony Zuko eventually found them. And we learn why Tony. killed Richard's parents.

• Speaker #2

  And it's because?

• Speaker #1

  Because he was so angry. I think he was so angry at John for sleeping with his wife.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, that'll do it.

• Speaker #1

  Because in the comics, it was originally, he was kind of a low-level thug. In, I think, Dark Victory, he worked for the Moroni family.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, okay, he wasn't a boss.

• Speaker #1

  No, he was, yeah, he was an enforcer, and Moroni had died, so he was trying to make a name for himself, so he was shaking down the circus, and he killed them to send a message. Got you. This is kind of reckoning it, saying, oh, he actually had a personal vendetta against the Grayson's.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. One thing before this story, this is my favorite. This was another tearjerker moment for me when they're all going to pull up to save. I just Oracle, this is Oracle stand down. Boom. Donna Troy right there. And she's like, I'm already pretty much there. Then you see all the teen Titans. Then, oh, this is where I lost it.

• Speaker #1

  I was crying. When you see, he's just singularly focused. He's like, no,

• Speaker #2

  not saying anything. That is the relationship he has with his brother's son. Bat-Fam is the family Bruce put together that he never had. So it's always great to see what are the effects of training a bunch of child soldiers and giving them infinite wealth and using them as crime fighters their whole life. This is the humanity aspect, and this is the fallout, and this is the sister he never got to connect with because he was fighting crime for her.

• Speaker #1

  And he wouldn't be, Bruce wouldn't be able to do this without the guy who ties him to his humanity, Alfred.

• Speaker #2

  Alfred Pennyworth.

• Speaker #0

  Is she, is this half-sister your lover, your full lover?

• Speaker #1

  Not the old one.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. No, yeah, I know, I know. I'll see her too, she's pretty hot.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, she can get it.

• Speaker #0

  Is she ever in, like, anything?

• Speaker #2

  I never saw her in anything.

• Speaker #1

  She was just introduced.

• Speaker #0

  This is it?

• Speaker #2

  Oh, so this was the beginning.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I'm pretty sure this is it.

• Speaker #2

  I never saw her in anything.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, okay. I was wondering if she's, like, a known... But wow, so this is a newly formed crush for you. But you're, it feels like it's known of forever. I was looking for a verse.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. Yeah, okay.

• Speaker #0

  We got so many pages of her.

• Speaker #2

  He doesn't require much. All he needs is an index and five minutes in the bathroom.

• Speaker #0

  Go further in it, though, and read more. Was she more of a star?

• Speaker #1

  rest that you read through when you found out about i i understood like half the words you just said really i picked up on it because i speak slater but was she the star in the rest of the book you read oh uh i i kind of skimmed it i uh i was really focused on the heartless parts i was just like i really wanted to see how that story like the heart not the hole it's like i blacked out i don't know

• Speaker #2

  Ends with him escaping or he leaves her house.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. So basically Melinda finishes her story about the origin and then Blockbuster surrounds her house with the corrupt police department.

• Speaker #2

  And he doesn't trust her at this point. Yeah. Well,

• Speaker #1

  because Blockbuster basically killed the current mayor so she could be a puppet.

• Speaker #2

  Palmed him like a basketball.

• Speaker #0

  We're playing bad.

• Speaker #1

  Last one is in 83. Okay.

• Speaker #2

  We're on six. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Here we go. Okay. All right. So the police show up.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, and so Nightwing fights through Blockbuster and his goons and he escapes. And the rest of this issue was really kind of focused on Richard Grayson, less so Nightwing. He's coming up with this bold plan to use Alfred's wealth to create lasting change in Bloodhaven, establishing foundations for housing, education, and community safety, taking aim to bring down the villains like Blockbuster. But before unveiling his plan, he runs it by a couple people. Leslie Tompkins?

• Speaker #2

  Oh, yeah,

• Speaker #1

  the teen titans or or whatever this is the most important oh yeah random five it's just fox yeah should do fine against kryptonite this scene oh my god this scene i mean the story was already great this is already this panel just that's how everybody looks at superman and to just see oh superman always has one foot popped he does yeah he does

• Speaker #2

  I guess that's how he controls the aerodynamics of it. That was Stan Lee's biggest beep with him. He's like, how does he just put his hands up and fly?

• Speaker #1

  It makes no sense. He doesn't have any wings. He sucks heights. Just sell a Godfrey now. So I was trying to tell me what he was going for. Faster than a speeding bullet.

• Speaker #2

  A me after prom night.

• Speaker #1

  That was pretty fast. I could be fast if I wanted to. I could be fast. I could be Nightwing if I wanted to. Ben Affleck.

• Speaker #2

  What is a...

• Speaker #1

  I always preferred Casey Affleck. He's innocent. His brother lives in Manchester by the sea because he's homeless for what he did to those poor girls.

• Speaker #0

  He ruined Goodwill Hunting.

• Speaker #1

  The only person to stand up to Casey Affleck is his arch nemesis, Captain Marple. Like when she didn't clap at the Oscars in 2013 when he won a Oscar. Manchester by the sea. I thought that was very brave. It was brave. Like when Natalie Portman said all the directors were male and she hasn't worked with a female director since. And what if she died because of sad? Her Thor movie was the worst. And that's the episode. Thank you so much, true believers.

• Speaker #0

  I like the parrot version of him, though.

• Speaker #1

  What do you mean a parrot version? That's the best version of him.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Where does he just keep going, like,

• Speaker #1

  randomly? I don't know when to stop.

• Speaker #0

  No.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, I do. Jafar, you've made billions of dollars. Maybe you should avoid looking for this fucking lamp.

• Speaker #2

  This is worse than those straight-to-DVD Disney movies. Aladdin 2, Jafar may need glasses.

• Speaker #1

  Number one or number two? You know, it's kind of the same. Number three or number four?

• Speaker #2

  What's so consequential about this meeting between Superman and... Nightwing, what happens here?

• Speaker #1

  He basically, he's got this very bold idea. He's like, look, I've got billions of dollars. And he goes to Superman. He goes, is this too small? Am I not doing enough? Superman goes, no, it's focused. That's plenty of dick. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  What's plenty of dick?

• Speaker #0

  That's enough dick.

• Speaker #1

  Yo, this is my favorite part of the panel.

• Speaker #2

  He tells him that what he has is enough because it's what he's doing.

• Speaker #0

  You're focused. You're on a lot of Adderall. I've been watching you.

• Speaker #1

  It's kind of like the Spider-Man approach. Spider-Man's not trying to save the world. He's trying to be a friendly neighborhood Spider-Man. Richard Grayson knows there's so much good that needs to be done in Bloodhaven. So he goes, you know what? He goes, I'm going to try fixing this city, and I'm going to start with homelessness, like you said, because it's getting colder.

• Speaker #2

  And I love the line where he has, I don't think there's anything heroic about being a billionaire. Such a great line.

• Speaker #1

  It's so great. And then Superman says, hey, like, if I go. Will you look after my son? Because I don't think there's a better role model than you. He's really taking, I mean, Richard Grayson really kind of takes the best parts of Batman and Superman.

• Speaker #2

  And I also realized, I guess I just never paid attention, but he named his, Superman named his son after his dad. Oh.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, his son. Wow. Wow.

• Speaker #2

  uh and then he's a ace oh no after batman's door uh and then we end we end on a very spider-man uh uh ask note you know just the uh whole kiss go get him boy wonder go get him it kind of looks like mary jane there yeah she does uh and then he gives the press conference saying everything he's going to do uh about homelessness we also got me yeah i was losing because it's just one panel the only line of dialogue he has here But Batman calls Nightwing and he says, he says, hey, you don't usually call. I know, I'm sorry, but you honored him today. Which meant so much. That's the most important person in his life. And he probably didn't mourn him. And that was just, that's him going, that's my,

• Speaker #0

  that's my boy.

• Speaker #2

  What emotions did it evoke out of you?

• Speaker #1

  He called it, he called it the Alfred Pennyworth Association. And you can, even though it's a comic book and it's drawn and it's written, you can almost hear it in Bruce's voice. Because these are essentially the two most important people in his life. It's like, it's like if you have a father who loves his father, your grandfather. and you kind of pay homage to your grandfather. Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, and I like that he's looking at the picture of, is it Alfred and Nightwing or Alfred and Batman? That's a great question.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I think that's Bruce.

• Speaker #0

  Right, because Alfred looks younger. Yeah, he's not great yet.

• Speaker #1

  Initially, I thought it was Dick originally.

• Speaker #2

  I could say it could be either. Maybe they left it ambiguous because that's, what's the difference between? Dick Grayson and Bruce Wayne. They're both kids and really only had Alfred to be their warm sense of whoever.

• Speaker #1

  For whatever reason, it's Superman's son, John.

• Speaker #2

  Right next to Vincent Price. What are your thoughts on Bruce's dynamics between himself and all of his kids? I'll toss that to you first.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, to me? Yeah. I kind of think with each of them, he becomes a better and better parent. Like, I think... Why do you say that? Because I think he realized it wasn't...

• Speaker #0

  the most responsible thing for him. Like, for Richard, he should have just been a dad. You really shouldn't have had him fight crime with him, but he was a broken man, and this was the only thing he really knew how to do. I think with Jason, you realize Jason actually really needed his help. Like, Jason almost needed to be Robin with him, and even though he blames himself, what happened to Jason really wasn't his fault. I mean...

• Speaker #1

  It was Jason.

• Speaker #0

  It was Jason's fault. Well, yeah, I mean, it was the Joker. You could say it was his fault for not murdering the Joker, but, I mean, he had that.

• Speaker #1

  The Joker's jealousy. Yeah. Also, in the alternate version of Death in the Family where Bruce dies and Jason lives, he's, like, telling him, like, you've always been my son. Don't start killing because... Promise me you won't kill the Joker because of what he did to me. And I feel like that's the only time you see him being warm around him, so it's easy to be like, he's just a hard-ass dad around him. No, like... I agree with you. That was always my thoughts of Jason. Like, he was the one who needed Robin.

• Speaker #0

  He really needed it. With Tim, Bruce at this point has learned his lesson and was like, no, no, no. Don't do this. This is a bad idea. And he was right because Tim's parents ended up killed. And then with Damien, who's actually his son, he's finally kind of learned his lessons. And he's like, okay, now I got this.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, he just had to go through three kids to finish.

• Speaker #2

  And finally his own, he figured out.

• Speaker #0

  And he got the biggest piece of shit of them all. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  God, I hate Damian Wayne.

• Speaker #0

  Damian's such an annoying little shit.

• Speaker #2

  I just don't like the name Damian either. I feel like every Damian that's portrayed in anything is a piece of shite.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, he really is. Do you know Damian Wayne's story? No. He's Ra's al Ghul's daughter, Talia, got pregnant and had Damian, and Damian got raised in the League of Shadows, and then he escaped or left and always raised him when he was like 13, and he was a... asshole and Bruce never could stand him. He's at the bottom of my Robin list. I think Jason's a way better character. This book, I threw you into it. I don't like origin story books. This was a better origin to me than Nightwing year one because it just throws you into everything that I think people identify with the character. I think people who have less than ideal parents who were tough on them and now they're successful can relate a lot to it. to the Nightwing character. And that's what I love so much. But as Jared Waters just texted me, um, that's what I like so much about this book is like, and that's why I liked the portrayal of him in Titans is in Titans. It shows the extent of less than ideal parenting from Batman and its effects. It had on all the rounds. I knew he wanted to get something out. what did you, did you like this book? First of all, Nightwing leap. I love this book.

• Speaker #0

  I mean, I suck your dick every time you give me a comic book. I like, but I like all the comic books.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, you picked this one?

• Speaker #1

  I did. I got it in Vancouver when I was there earlier last year. And I got it in Vancouver, Brian. You working on a swing? I'm not. Oh, Brian. Got some rogues that become friends and some friends that become rogues. Got a busted half-step sister. And I'm so good at all that. No, no, no. You're doing fine. You're a glad haven's protector.

• Speaker #2

  I'm surprised how high you can get.

• Speaker #0

  I was thinking that, too. I'm like,

• Speaker #2

  you can't even get high.

• Speaker #0

  You have no idea how high I can get,

• Speaker #1

  Brian. I'd be smoking the gong all the time with Heartless, yes. It's a Kanye West villain. I'm quite scared of Elmo, you know, he owes me $4. And let's just say Rocco isn't his biggest problem. What did you like about this book? What did you like about it?

• Speaker #0

  You know, I thought this book was outstanding. It honestly reminded me a lot of Immortal Iron Fist in that it wasn't an origin story, but you get everything you need to know about the character, and you're able to move forward in a cool and different way.

• Speaker #1

  What are the headlines of Nightwing as a character? Like, what do people need to know about him going in? Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  I think he's kind of like, he's basically Batman if he cared about his relationships. I think Bruce is such a, Bruce loves his family so much and his friends so much, but he's so broken that he can't really express it. Yeah. Dick can. Dick can tell, sorry, Richard can tell the people in his life. He can tell. uh tim and barbara and even the teen titans like nightwing and cyborg not nightwing uh starfire and cyborg like how much they mean to him and even his relationship with donna troy you know something that bruce would have never allowed with wonder woman no yeah he's like if batman went to therapy and confronted his feelings yeah i always thought of him as batman by way of peter parker

• Speaker #1

  oh yeah well it's interesting because like batman is batman and he never had someone to train him other than you go by batman begins rosal ghul and he's like i'm not going to be that guy nightwing is bruce is to to dick grayson i'm not going to be that guy he's like i'm not i'm not going to go as far as you as i was just thinking about this watching the old wounds episode like he walked away from crime fighting when he was when he had that dude up against the wall with his kid and he was like i'm dumb i'm not doing this that's something that you wouldn't ever see you Tim Drake, certainly not Jason Todd. Nobody in the Bat Fam doing it.

• Speaker #0

  Jason Todd would have killed the guy. And kid.

• Speaker #1

  Bruce and Nightwing are so great because they were like. Father and son, and then they also became very close like brothers, and then they had no relationship, and then they had a better relationship when they weren't together, like in the Arkham games.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, no, exactly. I think Bruce, they know how much they care about one another, but they also know they need their independence. I kind of think of Superman almost as like Nightwing's godfather. Yeah. You can talk to Superman and tell him things that he can't really tell Bruce.

• Speaker #1

  I loved the stuff with him and Superman. Amazing. That was such a great part.

• Speaker #2

  That was a nice surprise. Like not fully fledged on the background of Nightwing at all. Like I don't really, I mean, I guess.

• Speaker #1

  What could you tell her?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So he was, for many people, think of Richard Grayson as the definitive Robin because he was the first Robin. He was basically Robin from 1940 to the early 1980s. Then when you think of that, that Burt Ward character from the Adam West show, that's Richard Grayson. When you think of the Joel Schumacher Robin, that's Richard Grayson. But for instance, for say you and I, I don't think we think Richard Grayson when we think Robin. We probably think him.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. So like when did it switch?

• Speaker #0

  Well, he'd been a boy wonder for about 40 years. And then.

• Speaker #2

  My man.

• Speaker #0

  I think. My man. My man. Good reference. I think it was Marv Wolfman. Yes. Marv Wolfman and George Perez basically took Richard Grayson while he was in the Teen Titans and made him Nightwing. Because they're like, all right. He's got to grow up. And that's when they introduced Jason Todd as the next Robin. And it did wonders for Richard Grayson's character.

• Speaker #1

  Not for Jason Todd.

• Speaker #0

  Not for Jason Todd.

• Speaker #1

  Jason Todd was so universally hated, they put it up to the fans to vote whether he should die or not. And then that's why he died.

• Speaker #0

  They voted yes.

• Speaker #1

  They voted yes. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Well, if you let anything go up to the fans, I feel like death is going to be the outcome every time. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And it wasn't.

• Speaker #0

  Snoo Snoo. Snoo Snoo.

• Speaker #1

  Snoo Snoo. His first appearance was in. Dick Grayson, Richard Grayson, Detective Comics, 38 in 1940. And then he became Nightwing in Tales of the Teen Titans, number 44 in 1984. What? And the original Nightwing comes from the name. Nightwing comes from a Kryptonian legend. As we see in this in this book, he goes, you gave me my name, Nightwing. It comes from a Kryptonian legend. While Superman was exiled in the bottle city of Kandor, him and Jimmy Olsen used the alias as Nightwing and Flamebird. as the Atlantis, and Richard Grayson took the name on as a nod to Superman, who was always like a mentor figure, like an uncle figure.

• Speaker #0

  I would read the shit out of that. Yeah, it's very good. Grayson and Jimmy Olsen in Kandor together? Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  I think it's called Bottle of the City. That's me and you. Yeah, it is basically us. And Slater, you could be Superman. Flamebird. That's Jimmy's name.

• Speaker #2

  Call me Phoenix.

• Speaker #0

  Yo, I want to be known by my superhero name, the Flaming Bird. I'm slaving right now.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  that's a gay name.

• Speaker #1

  You had a question about Bloodhaven. I don't know if you know this. How far is Bloodhaven from Gotham? I asked that earlier.

• Speaker #0

  I remember I asked you in the Superman episode. I have no idea where Gotham is. When it comes to geography of DC, I got no idea.

• Speaker #1

  It always just depends on the story. Because I look at Batman versus Superman. He got to Gotham pretty quickly from Metropolis. He was at the top of the building. I think I said that. And it's like New York.

• Speaker #2

  to or manhattan to like i was just gonna say is it yeah is it like burrow jumping almost like gopham's supposed to be manhattan new york metropolis is like outside of kansas so yeah basically hey get

• Speaker #1

  the fuck out of here what are we doing hey we're here to save martha save martha she's my mom yo yo yo hey you're gonna go off to the back huh huh huh tell me hey yo

• Speaker #0

  Hey, I can't do it.

• Speaker #1

  I can't do it. I got to come over my house every day commiserating. You know, I got Superman flying around. He's an alien. I can't do it. I mean, I can't. I can't do it. Maybe you didn't hear no more. I don't shine shoes no more. You know, I'm Nightwing. No, this kid over here used to fight crime. He's shining his shoes like a fucking polished head. No, I don't shine shoes no more, Billy.

• Speaker #0

  Ever since I was an acrobat, I always wanted to be a superhero.

• Speaker #1

  I wanted to be a Nightwing. What other?

• Speaker #0

  As far back as I can remember.

• Speaker #1

  Do you want to know how I got these scars? There was no OSHA in the flying races.

• Speaker #0

  My parents were acrobats.

• Speaker #2

  No safety nets.

• Speaker #1

  Bruce was our safety net.

• Speaker #0

  They wore condoms. And rock safety nets.

• Speaker #2

  People do be fucking at the circus in this.

• Speaker #1

  True. Do you know the Teen Titans?

• Speaker #2

  Like that clown shit? What?

• Speaker #1

  Do you know the Teen Titans?

• Speaker #2

  The Teen Titans?

• Speaker #1

  No. They're a group of...

• Speaker #2

  I mean,

• Speaker #0

  I...

• Speaker #1

  When there's trouble,

• Speaker #0

  you know who to call. Teen Titans. From their tower, they can see it all.

• Speaker #1

  Now do the Japanese version.

• Speaker #0

  Get it?

• Speaker #1

  Hi, hi, puppy,

• Speaker #0

  I'll be human. Hi, hi, puppy, I'll be human.

• Speaker #1

  There's no one there on your back. because i'm the world's he was the founding member and leader of the teen titans i don't really know the issue the the story behind teen titans one but it was just basically like robin from what i understand and we grew up with the show obviously that was amazing was the best and there was always a question which robin is he i've always thought of him being the sequel to the batman tv shows robin like that's who's robin he is you thought he was going to drink I, the, the Batman that was with the redesign.

• Speaker #0

  I never watched that.

• Speaker #1

  I always thought he was that one.

• Speaker #0

  They confirmed who it was though. It was, it was, it was,

• Speaker #1

  it was Grayson. Yeah. So I always thought it was Grayson and that's what they were passing it on to.

• Speaker #2

  You guys have so much time to watch all these things. Well,

• Speaker #0

  you probably watched other shows.

• Speaker #1

  How many hours of football games have you watched? Uh, that's what we were doing.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. But that's only on like every,

• Speaker #1

  you know, for eight hours.

• Speaker #2

  For one, no.

• Speaker #1

  You're done with a Batman movie in two.

• Speaker #0

  Like you were probably watching like Sabrina the Teenage Witch or like shows of that era. Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  it was.

• Speaker #0

  Or like Salem. Because I have a sister, so those shows were on too. Salem the Cat was cool.

• Speaker #1

  We were watching stuff that holds up.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. No, Sabrina the Witch.

• Speaker #1

  How long is Lord of the Rings?

• Speaker #2

  Well, at least Lord of the Rings has a map, so you know. How long is Lord of the Rings?

• Speaker #0

  R-D-E of the Rings. Yeah, yeah,

• Speaker #1

  yeah. Ever seen a diamond in gold? He was a founding member of the Teen Titans, and they became this. powerhouse team and that's who we saw in the book cyborg starfire donna troy beast boy and raven yeah i think donna troy was ever in the tv show though she wasn't in the tv show that was weird yeah because i i guess they had it wasn't really missing her because starfire and raven were just such houses names and uh starfire's real name is star yeah star bright star um nightwing is just a child what

• Speaker #0

  uh it's a stupid disney channel movie about a doll that comes to life i knew what it was a model tyra banks yeah she was a barbie in this movie shine bright shine far don't be afraid watching

• Speaker #1

  the batman um so you guys get to sing i get to sing at least one now we're done sing sing that's another band um he is the de facto replacement to take up the mantle of Batman, like Richard Grayson.

• Speaker #0

  And I've said that I agree with you. He's the de facto, and I kind of disagree with him being the de facto. Yeah, right. I've said that I think it should be Tim.

• Speaker #1

  He's almost better as, he is better as his own character. It would be an antithesis to everything that he takes on.

• Speaker #0

  It's supposed to be that he grows from beyond Bruce,

• Speaker #1

  and Bruce even said-Otherwise he would have stayed as Robin.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, like Bruce even said, like, Tim should be the next Batman.

• Speaker #1

  He's the most like me.

• Speaker #0

  Why

• Speaker #1

  Tim over... Why do you think Bruce would pick Tim over anyone else to be... Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Not in the animated universe continuity, because his mind is what goes to scramble first.

• Speaker #0

  I know. We've also talked about that. I've always thought even though he was called Tim Drake, that was Jason. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  yeah, yeah, because they just didn't have him in this. um he is uh his first time as batman i think was in final crisis your favorite uh dick grayson took up the mantle batman and partnered oh wait no that couldn't have been a final crisis crisis finally prices yeah because that's when damien was robin and uh best dynamic between the two of them is in the ill-fated injustice series but like it's really really really good um just see that when batman that one like damien kills him yeah where he throws the the thing at him and it hits nightwing in the head kills nightwing Batman disowns Damian because he's like a brother to him. And Justice, Superman is pissed because the Joker sends Lois into space and kills her. So he comes back and punches him through the chest and kills him. And then Superman basically goes, I'm going to end all the world's problems now by just doing this. You guys are taking too long. I'm just doing this. And Batman goes, no, no, you're not. Who's we? We're not doing this. That's got to be the dumbest decisions I've ever heard. I'm a part-timer, remember? And Nightwing was... was his his arm that was his his everything that was supposed to take up the mantle and then after he dies he's like punching walls and cat woman comes up to him and goes don't be the mask tonight just be bruce and then the only one of the few times you ever see him cry is in her arms after that's a beautiful moment yeah and otherwise kind of shitty what are your thoughts on bruce's dynamics between himself and all of his kids uh toss that to you first oh to me yeah uh i kind of think

• Speaker #0

  With each of them, he becomes a better and better parent. Like, I think.

• Speaker #1

  Why do you say that?

• Speaker #0

  Because I think he realized it wasn't the most responsible thing for him. Like, for Richard, he should have just been a dad. He really shouldn't have had him fight crime with him, but he was a broken man, and this was the only thing he really knew how to do. I think with Jason, you realize Jason actually really needed his help. Like, Jason almost needed to be Robin with him, and even though he blames himself, what happened to Jason really wasn't his fault. I mean...

• Speaker #1

  It was Jason.

• Speaker #0

  It was Jason's fault for... Well, yeah, I mean, it was... Yeah, it was the Joker. You could say it was his fault for not murdering the Joker. But I mean,

• Speaker #1

  the Joker's jealousy and also in the alternate version of Death in the Family where Bruce dies and Jason lives, he's like telling him, like, you've always been my son. Don't start killing because promise me you won't kill a Joker because of what he did to me. You know, like, and I feel like that's the only time you see him being warm around him. So it's easy to be like, he's just a hard ass dad around him. No, like, I agree with you. That was always my thoughts of Jason. Like, he was the one who needed Robin.

• Speaker #0

  He really needed it. With Tim, Bruce at this point has learned his lesson and was like. no, no, no, don't do this. This is a bad idea. And he was right because Tim's parents end up killed. And then with Damien, who's actually his son, he's finally kind of learned his lessons and he's like, okay, now I got this.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, he just had to go through three kids. Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  and then finally his own, he figured out.

• Speaker #0

  And he gets the biggest piece of shit of them all. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  God, I hate Damien Wayne.

• Speaker #0

  Damien's such an annoying little shit.

• Speaker #2

  I just don't like the name Damien either. I feel like every Damien that's portrayed in anything is a...

• Speaker #1

  a piece of shite yeah he he really is he do you know damian wayne's story no he's rosa rosa's daughter talia uh got pregnant and had damian and damian got raised in the league of shadows and then he escaped or left and bruce raised him yeah when he was like 13 and he was an asshole and bruce never could understand him yeah he really just i he's you At the bottom of my Robin list. I think Jason's a way better character. Totally. Thank you for 35,000 subscribers. This is our second episode of the year? Yes. And we couldn't be baddier.

• Speaker #2

  We're a bunch of baddies.

• Speaker #1

  Do you want to give us an outro? You gave us an intro.

• Speaker #2

  Intro, outro.