Description

What happens when one of Marvel's most iconic villains takes center stage in a universe-spanning conflict? Join hosts Troy Bond, Brent Birnbaum, and Slater Harrison as they unravel the intricacies of Marvel's 'Secret Wars' storyline, particularly the groundbreaking 2015 series crafted by Jonathan Hickman. This episode of Secret Identity is not just a deep dive; it's a thrilling exploration of how storytelling in comics has transformed over decades.

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Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Welcome to Secret Identity. I'm your host, Troy Bond, accompanied by the one, the only, the Beyonder, Brent Birnbaum. Yo. Quoted from the book, yo. That's what Doom says to the Beyonders.

• Speaker #1

  I'm actually dyslexic. I was saying oi.

• Speaker #0

  And the invisible woman widowed of Reed Richards and now saddled to Victor Von Doom. It's Victor Von Slater-Harris-Hann.

• Speaker #1

  That's what you were doing. I was like, are you playing peek-a-boo right now?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I can't see her.

• Speaker #0

  We're racking up the emotes. So there is Secret Wars 1989, 87? 84. 84. That's why it sucks so much. What year? The shirt I'm wearing. And then there is the one we're talking today, the better Secret Wars 2015, John Hinkman's Secret Wars. That's correct. Now, I don't know if the first Secret Wars is a victim of its time. I remember the one episode we never released that we recorded was Dark Phoenix, and that was an older comic, and it was pretty dense, and it was another team one, so maybe that's why it was harder to digest. The first Secret Wars is basically Marvel putting their heads together, figuring out how they're going to sell toys. Correct.

• Speaker #1

  That's exactly what it is.

• Speaker #0

  That's probably why the story didn't live up to what it could have been. But also at the time, nothing like that existed. So it didn't really matter. Till you read Jonathan Hickman's Secret Wars. And then you go, yeah, I'm throwing that in the trash, the original one.

• Speaker #1

  It's interesting because I want to say it's because writing has gotten better over the years. But 80s had some banger storylines. I mean, arguably the greatest, most beloved comic books came out of the 1980s. Watchmen, Dark Knight Returns, Daredevil Born Again. What else? Craven's Last Hunt. But like, I think it was very new to do a crossover. And that's what that 80s Secret Wars was. And so I didn't really think they thought it through. I think it was literally just like throwing toys against each other, see what sticks. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  I mean, I don't even see any of this as crossovers, the old, the new. It's just a fucking orgy.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  The mind is bleeding.

• Speaker #1

  This is an homage. It's a beautiful homage to what came before and it makes it so much better. better. It improves what you said, the original Secret Wars in so many ways. DC did a similar thing. They had Crisis on Infinite Earths maybe two years after Secret Wars. I've never shied away from saying, I think that is a garbage storyline. It's beyond stupid. It's beyond stupid. It's beyond stupid. It's really bad. And then they had a storyline, Infinite Crisis in 2006, which I've said is very good and improved upon it in every way. It's very similar to Secret Wars. It insists upon itself. story wise uh what did you have written down yeah go over so i have like a five sentence summary so after the collapse of the multiverse dr doom seizes the power of the beyonders and creates battle world a patchwork planet where he rules as a god alongside a brainwashed sue storm and their children aided by his right-hand man dr strange the last surviving heroes and villains from 616 and the ultimate universe arrived with reed the maker black panther namor you leading a rebellion against Doom. Strange secretly opposes Doom, scatters the newcomers to protect them, but is killed by Doom for his disobedience. As chaos erupts, Thanos challenges Doom and is killed. Black Panther wields the Infinity Gauntlet in the final battle. Eventually, the real power behind Doom chooses to side with Reed, allowing him to take Doom's godhood and restore the multiverse. In the end, Reed and his family rebuild reality. Miles is integrated into the new Earth-616 as a thank you from the Molecule Man.

• Speaker #0

  Even though everyone who knows is... dead.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, everyone he knows is dead, but he's like, yeah, you guys are cooler anyway.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I get to be in a PS4 game.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly. I get to hang with Peter. And Doom mysteriously healed, disappears with a restored face.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, Doom went unnipped. Wow,

• Speaker #2

  I cannot believe that you took this freaking thick-ass book and just put it in five sentences.

• Speaker #1

  I tried. Well, because if I did, we'd be spending...

• Speaker #2

  That was insane. We'd be spending so much time... That was like hooked on phonics.

• Speaker #1

  Well, it's just like... Well, thank you.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah, there... What? Why didn't it work back in the day? Is it because they didn't know how to do these big team-up stories? Is it because now we've had so many solo stories throughout the years that when you see crossover, you get excited? Like, Ultimate Alliance games were so cool growing up because you could play as, like, members of the Fantastic Four and the Avengers and X-Men and put them all on one team. Are we just, like, are we down for more superhero team-ups now than we were ready then? Or why?

• Speaker #1

  why didn't it work then versus now would you say yeah I think it was something new that they tried before it's kind of like when you make the movie before you have the script I think that's what that Secret Wars was. It's just like, we know the heroes we want. We know the villains. We'll create some character named the Beyonder. Let's see what happens here. They didn't really think it through. It was the same thing with Crisis on Infinite Earths. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, well, to Infinity and Beyond.

• Speaker #0

  Right.

• Speaker #1

  And you see in the 90s, like, the shit starts to improve. You see with Infinity Gauntlet at Marvel or you see with Kingdom Come at DC. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  I... I think what makes this one so good is at its core, and I'm glad you're wearing the shirt, it's a story about Reed and Doom. It's the two of them having their final battle before everything hits the reset button and starts over again. But it does it in such a good way where when it restarts, it doesn't take away anything from the story. I mean, they did take away Franklin's powers after this because, I mean... honestly how could you have him in a book next to anybody when he created universes you gotta nerd franklin and dan slot caught a lot of hell for that but i was like no that makes a lot of sense that he did that that's what scares me about avengers secret wars is who is this story gonna be about is it gonna be about family it's about family but like is the family gonna be our djs doom and spider-man or is it gonna be uh because we that that story ended or how are they gonna shoehorn in pedro and our djs doom i don't really know how this works so well because once I read this for like the fourth time today. And once I finished it the last time, the third time, when I was not having sex, I went back and I read the comics that came for me.

• Speaker #1

  That's just a weekend.

• Speaker #0

  That's just any day. You can shake Brent's hand any day of the week. Never be sticky.

• Speaker #2

  He's always spreading those pages.

• Speaker #0

  You were... overloaded at this at first,

• Speaker #2

  I guess. That is the understatement of 2025.

• Speaker #0

  What was overwhelming? You were jarred at this book.

• Speaker #2

  Okay, well, first of all, I smoked before.

• Speaker #1

  I knew you were going to say that. So stupid. For sure, you're like, you know what's going to make this book less confusing is weed.

• Speaker #2

  So it's like, oh, there's like 100 million characters. Let me just smoke the gun.

• Speaker #1

  Let's go back to a previous episode, because when we said we were doing Secret Wars, I said, Slater, this is going to blow your mind. Like, you're going to need to read. And you were like, oh, it's going to blow my mind because I'm not a comic nerd. Like you and Troy. Because I'm Tom and I'm Slater and I'm Brad and I think women are stupid. Literally, that's like what happened on the episode. And I was like, who can say that?

• Speaker #2

  i am not worthy don't listen to me you're like you don't know we smoke a joint i'm confused reading this book i well i literally okay i started and i got to maybe page three and i was like joy you're gonna have to read this with me tandem like i'm a fucking child and it was a bedtime story i just gotta happen yeah still had to take an intermission halfway through i was like let me take a nap for 20. My brain is fucking exploding. Yeah. Then I'm like, I'm going to have fucking crazy ass dreams tonight. I know it. I'm going to be so fucked in the head, dude. I might go into a coma after this.

• Speaker #0

  You followed along really well, though, once I started reading it out loud. Well, yeah,

• Speaker #2

  because he did the voices.

• Speaker #0

  I did the voices.

• Speaker #1

  It was all Bill Cosby. You see,

• Speaker #0

  that remains untrue.

• Speaker #1

  V.S.

• Speaker #0

  You know, it's a child love. This does not work out. It could be the end. In my journey, death is not the end. But I will see you on the other side with Rudy. I will be the king of the dead where I belong.

• Speaker #2

  You did not use that voice.

• Speaker #1

  And it was like, thank God. Now I feel comfortable. Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  yeah. I was like, do it in all the worst people's voices, please. He did read Sinister like it was John Mulaney for a little bit. Oh, that's fine. Yeah. That was fun.

• Speaker #1

  Senator makes this book.

• Speaker #0

  I want to run, but I have no legs. How embarrassing.

• Speaker #2

  And I'm decapitated two times.

• Speaker #1

  It's a flesh wound. It's a flesh wound.

• Speaker #0

  First, you consider my thirst quenched.

• Speaker #1

  So the main character of this is the villain. It's Doctor Doom, the self-proclaimed god and ruler of Battleworld, wielding the power of the Beyonders. So basically, the Beyonders, who the Beyonder was the original villain of the 80s Secret Wars. And the Beyonder, he's just like a nerd. He's just like... broken character. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  he was kind of like a... I know he's not Asian, but he reminded me of an old samurai movie villain. Yeah. A mythical villain.

• Speaker #1

  Totally.

• Speaker #0

  But he came out of nowhere. There was no lore for him. There was no nothing.

• Speaker #1

  It was a terrible series where they were just like, he's powerful for reasons. And they've since nerfed him. What is it? It's Christianity? It's dumb.

• Speaker #0

  And I like how they handled the Beyonders in this because you didn't really know who they were, but then they told you everything you needed to know about them. And I think that made it... way more palatable to understand where this power came from. They had the Owen Reese element. They built everything in life, and now they want to destroy everything in life.

• Speaker #1

  Well, that was the thing. In the original 80s, the only one powerful enough to take on the Beyonders was Owen Reese, the Molecule Man. Yeah. So it's cool that they brought him back. It's cool that they made Doom front and center. Because in the original 80s Secret Wars, he steals the Beyonders' power. And of course, the first thing he does is make himself good-looking. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Is that what he does at the end?

• Speaker #1

  I think that was Reed kind of like.

• Speaker #0

  Giving him a. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  giving him a break.

• Speaker #0

  That's what I thought too.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, yeah, see?

• Speaker #1

  He's like, you don't get to be a god anymore, but man, you are a thought.

• Speaker #2

  What's a kick to a god? What's a god to a thought? What's a thought to a non-believer?

• Speaker #0

  This guy doesn't keep up with the news. Couldn't understand anything about Barua, but understood nuances of the Kanye argument. No, no, you're right. He put out graduation.

• Speaker #1

  Thanks for Reed Richards. He's the, uh...

• Speaker #0

  Reed never breaks anything,

• Speaker #1

  The leader of the surviving heroes who ultimately challenges doom and restores the multiverse. That's what I love about the maker. Because Reed at his heart sucks.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  It's everything at all the time.

• Speaker #2

  I hate him. Yeah. I've said that.

• Speaker #0

  There's even a panel where he's like, I'm Reed Richards and I fix problems. And we both laugh. We're like, shut the fuck up,

• Speaker #1

  Reed.

• Speaker #0

  Reed, I'm a cuck Richards.

• Speaker #2

  If you say you fix problems, you are the problem.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. The person who fixed everything in this was Miles.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. and he got his homework done and he got his homework done yeah he's a fucking stud that was great who else other than uh i have to read we got uh sue is that who i'm gonna guess next i have dr strange next act uh yes dr strange so he's doom's right hand man who secretly aids the rebels before being killed by doom so he's the one who's too much of a bitch to take the power on for himself exactly or or he he knows his limitations yes

• Speaker #2

  yes he did not write a prescription for power

• Speaker #0

  When Doom murked him, I kind of felt like Quicksilver. I was like, you didn't see that coming.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, obviously you're going to die.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, because he didn't really leave like a... I guess it all worked out in the end, but if T'Challa didn't save everything with the Infinity Konglet, he would have really kind of been screwed.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that part confused me. Did T'Challa save everything or did he just save Wakanda? Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  because they're still building the universe, right? Maybe they saved everything on Earth first.

• Speaker #1

  I feel like T'Challa saved Wakanda and then didn't realize that Molecule Man saved the universe anyway. So it was almost like a pointless effort by T'Challa.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, he did take the soul stone and then just closed his eyes. He was like, it worked. And then the rest of the world was there and he's like, oh yeah, I meant to save you too.

• Speaker #2

  It wasn't just for my people.

• Speaker #1

  No, he won forever.

• Speaker #0

  We're not Wakandan Nationals.

• Speaker #1

  He was definitely trying to save Dallas.

• Speaker #2

  This is the UN.

• Speaker #0

  That we're still not a part of. Was there, there was an eight-year time jump after as well, or were they just picking up from, because at the after, he takes the.

• Speaker #1

  I think afterwards, I think. No,

• Speaker #0

  it was just including the.

• Speaker #1

  I think it was just the, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, so when the Earth's collided, when they saved everything was really like.

• Speaker #1

  It was a yeah, yeah. Okay. Yeah, exactly.

• Speaker #0

  On top of the eight years, they were in stasis, but like. Right. So it just picked up after that. Stasis.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  He just wanted to get that out.

• Speaker #2

  Don't replace the head.

• Speaker #0

  Didn't you,

• Speaker #2

  Beaver? Stability.

• Speaker #0

  Jesus.

• Speaker #2

  I'm just going to be saying random shit. I'm sorry.

• Speaker #1

  Which is so different than all of our previous... I'm sorry. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  You were saying shit's with it.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah. What up?

• Speaker #0

  Who else is in this?

• Speaker #1

  Next up is Black Panther, who wields the Infinity Gauntlet and leads the charge against Doom alongside Namor.

• Speaker #0

  Shines in this more than he really has as a hero in any MCU movie.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, other than his own one, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  I think him having the gauntlet in... end game is kind of a nod to this book oh yeah i gotta say that uh and and it also like they had to get like six people to have it to get to the finish line so it would make sense that he would have it but and even like he's quoted at the end being like on your feet soldier which is what he says to um uh i forget what his guard's name is in okoye yeah when he grabs her arm and then he disappears he tells her on their feet shows i just saw maybe they're there and maybe they're not but this is like around the time marvel was starting to catch up with mcu comic wise like we got sam is the is Captain America in this. Totally. In the beginning. So like, they're still starting to take a little notches.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And Jane Foster's Thor. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And she like, didn't really have a big part, but it was nice to see her in this. Totally. I love Jane Foster a lot. She was, she did more of this than she did in Thor 4.

• Speaker #1

  No, that's, that's for damn sure. Like I felt like, cause the Black Panther movie hadn't come out yet. He hadn't appeared in Civil War. It was almost like they knew he was going to play such a huge role in the MCU. Yeah. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  It was really cool to see him. And I liked the little spider. I love Spider-Woman. So it's always cool to see her for a little bit too. Yeah. She crashed and burned. with natasha yeah there was some quick cameos that deserve more time you know what it reminded me of remind me did you see the justice league uh the last animated movie they did and uh it was like apocalypse or something oh i i heard of it no i didn't see it yeah they all go to like fight dark side and dark side wins but like in the first 20 minutes of the movie he kills like two-thirds of the heroes on the roster that's what this reminded me of and i just i like i like that because it sets the stakes and even with the second earth you're like how are the two super earths yeah

• Speaker #1

  no totally you know dude i can't and also the ultimate universe i know yeah well that's when

• Speaker #0

  Because we read, I was reading the first like six pages of the book with you first, and I think that's the ultimate stuff. And then it goes to Earth 616. And then I said like, all right, now this is the second Earth. And that's when you went, okay, all right.

• Speaker #2

  I'm going on autopilot.

• Speaker #1

  It is, it's insane. It's yeah, it's insanely confusing. It's needlessly confusing.

• Speaker #2

  He's reading it to me. I just hear rain.

• Speaker #1

  These are the guided meditations.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  I was doing network with reading.

• Speaker #2

  They're out here. I was like.

• Speaker #1

  because motherfucker it's my job to protect the planet oh yeah that was good that woke me up next we'll put you to sleep oh yeah he does monologue a lot yeah what next up we got molecule man the true source of doom's power who ultimately sides with reed to reshape reality i want bill burr to play molecule man that would be fantastic i think he'd be a really good molecule man you bring me anything to eat yeah oh it's so brutal good oh it's frontal though you

• Speaker #0

  Frodo, oh, look at this, dude. I got one onion ring in my fries. I think this fucking Doctor Doom should be put down like a rabid dog.

• Speaker #2

  Why am I floating? I don't like being upside down.

• Speaker #1

  Give me your face. What the hell is going on? Frodo!

• Speaker #0

  You built this whole no-bridge, have-it-ass battle world.

• Speaker #2

  You're disgusting.

• Speaker #0

  You got a fucking statue of Stephen Strange because you don't have any real fucking wizards in your battle world. Swimming is fairly rare.

• Speaker #1

  We made the universe. I'm leaving Philly off, though. I'm leaving Philly off. I always like Molecule Man as a character. He reminds me a lot of Aaron Yeager or Dr. Manhattan, a guy who's very ordinary, who has no business being as powerful as he is, and that's kind of his limitation.

• Speaker #0

  I don't think he's as morally ambiguous as those two, though. He seems pretty able to... When he was wrestling with Reed and Doom, who he would give the power for, he was very even-keeled with it. He didn't really care if he were hero or villain. His one...

• Speaker #1

  metric was did you bring me something to eat yeah i was judging everybody well that's how that's how he grew as a character because in the 80s secret wars he like uh he's very easily manipulated by doom uh because of he's so insecure even though he is all powerful and i think this is kind of his growth

• Speaker #0

  Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  because he's hungry.

• Speaker #1

  He's hungry.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, like, was that just like a funny little joke or was it like it actually fueled him to be...

• Speaker #1

  I think he really was hungry. I think Miles showed a level of empathy that other characters didn't by actually giving him something to eat. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, it's like, you know, if someone on the street, you know, is begging you for change and everyone is like, no, sorry.

• Speaker #0

  Multiply that times infinity because that's what he was hungry for. He had... like millions of miles across different multiverse that feed.

• Speaker #2

  That freaking burger. That big mess. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I'm not gonna lie. It looked pretty good.

• Speaker #2

  It did.

• Speaker #0

  I got Shake Shack after reading this because I wanted burger. But at the end of the day, I got Shake Shack because I had just read this issue.

• Speaker #2

  I love cartoon food. Is it weird?

• Speaker #0

  No. At all.

• Speaker #1

  Like Lion King, like when they eat the bugs.

• Speaker #2

  Oh my God.

• Speaker #1

  They look delicious.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I was gonna say like the pizza from Goofy movie, but yeah, let's jump right to bugs.

• Speaker #1

  Watch the...

• Speaker #2

  bugs. I feel like you've eaten frog legs. I feel like you're that kind of dude. Chocolate-covered grasshoppers. I don't know.

• Speaker #1

  I've definitely eaten grasshoppers.

• Speaker #0

  I was going to say grasshoppers in Thailand.

• Speaker #2

  Young grasshopper.

• Speaker #0

  Where do you eat a grasshopper? On legs, I hope.

• Speaker #1

  Where did I eat grasshopper?

• Speaker #2

  The streets.

• Speaker #1

  No, it was in Mexico.

• Speaker #0

  It was an endangered prank mantis.

• Speaker #2

  Ooh, a foreign grasshopper.

• Speaker #0

  they deported grass they wouldn't let him bring it through customs so he had to go well i guess you're not going to be my pet lou you're part of me now you're so wise maybe that's why that is why yeah he writes his breakdown by rubbing his hands together yeah he's not a pregnant oh

• Speaker #1

  yeah i was just gonna say how wise he is those are wise he is a chosen one yeah i'm sorry i i don't mean to danos danos is great in this

• Speaker #0

  He didn't get marked out in the first issue. I think he made it till the end. He does.

• Speaker #1

  And then he gets marked.

• Speaker #0

  His death is so great. I have that action figure where it's Doctor Doom holding the skeleton of Thanos.

• Speaker #2

  Yo, yeah, he just ripped his spine out.

• Speaker #0

  Right out. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  That was brutal,

• Speaker #0

  dude.

• Speaker #1

  So good. It's like in Indiana Jones, like with the guy with the sword. And you're like, oh, this is going to be an epic fight. It just shoots him.

• Speaker #0

  That appears untrue.

• Speaker #2

  So good. I didn't even tell. I was like, is he dead? Is he really? Because some people begin. decapitated. Yeah. But we get fucking blown up and then they're in the next scene. I'm like, is this a clone? Did he live? What's happening?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I get the rule in comics always is they're not dead if you don't see a body. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Well,

• Speaker #1

  I definitively saw a body.

• Speaker #2

  We saw a skeleton. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  We saw parts of a body.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. There was a lot of weird stuff going on.

• Speaker #0

  Like Wanda's not dead because we didn't see a body.

• Speaker #1

  Wanda's definitely alive. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  There's a whole musical theater arc of Marvel fans that we still need to appeal to. So we can't kill off Wanda.

• Speaker #2

  Wanda.

• Speaker #0

  She going around killing a bunch of people for a bunch of keys she made on the internet, Shrek.

• Speaker #1

  uh next up we have uh valeria uh and franklin so doom's adopted uh daughter and son and uh valeria is kind of one of the few who actually questions his rule franklin i don't know i don't know what he's doing all he's just fucking to be relevant at the end hanging

• Speaker #0

  out in galactic elephant rides from galactic this whole book that's all he's doing Galactus doesn't say one word this whole book. And Secret Wars, the original, he was pretty featured. Yeah, he was. His whole thing was he wanted to get the Beyonder, so the Beyonder would grant him the power of not being hungry anymore, which actually made him pretty. That was probably the one good part of that. Oh, that's my PS5 about to shut down.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, that sounded like the beginning of Michelle Brand's.

• Speaker #0

  I was playing Jedi Survivor.

• Speaker #1

  Make my way downtown.

• Speaker #0

  Wonder why I am so hungry. Yeah, I love Galactus. He's never really ever been done right other than certain Silver Surfer stories or the Punisher one where he has the powers of the Silver Surfer. Cosmic Punisher, I forget, or Cosmic Silver Surfer.

• Speaker #1

  His original appearance is great.

• Speaker #0

  Was it Kirby stuff? Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  it was in the FF run. What made that so cool is he was such a different type of villain than had ever really been introduced before. He wasn't this malicious... scientist that was trying to take over the world he was just like this being of like that was trying to destroy the world but not out of malice he was just that he was just like a force did you ever watch the

• Speaker #0

  90s silver surfer show people everyone tells me that show is great though i think it's like seven episodes but i watched it three four years ago it's a fun show to uh shall we say smoke a cigar and watch i would volunteer that after our recording it's very very very cool silver surfers silver surfer yeah and he loved him I love Silver Surfer.

• Speaker #2

  He's got to get his own thing.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Well, like when I was a kid, my favorite series was Silver Surfer and Howard the Duck. I don't know how they got paired together,

• Speaker #1

  but it was just- Was there a Howard the Duck series?

• Speaker #0

  With Silver Surfer. Wow. Yeah. Remember those, I forget what line of Marvel figures it was, but you would get the figure. Sometimes you'd get a smaller figure or a piece of a bigger figure to build, and then a comic book would be behind it. Right, totally. So I had the Silver Surfer one with Howard the Duck.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, I used to have those too. I had the Doctor Strange ones. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  I had that one too. And when you're a kid, you're just looking at it being like, this is- You know, you have your Spider-Mans, your Iron-Mans, your everyone else, but then you see something like this, and you're like, I remember asking my dad, like, who are these guys? And he was like, they never did them right. Don't worry about it. And then, like, you watch the Howard the Duck movie, which I never really got to watch, but everyone says it was terrible.

• Speaker #1

  The first Marvel movie ever made.

• Speaker #0

  Howard the Duck. Yeah. George Lucas. Wow. Yeah, I've always wanted to watch it.

• Speaker #1

  Starring Chip Zien as Howard the Duck. Now, that's a deep cut for you. Wow,

• Speaker #0

  who's that?

• Speaker #1

  Because I love musical theater. He originated, you guys know the show Into the Woods? Yes. Yeah, so he was the original baker.

• Speaker #0

  And you're sure you're not gay? yeah well that kind of red bit what are your thoughts on share franklin wasn't there an issue where uh there was like a storyline where professor x had to go into his head and make him forget he had powers because he was so powerful i think so i think you are like he was the one who took down onslaught in the 90s yes that's what i was thinking okay yeah why is he so powerful is it because of his parents being exposed to those cosmic rays and probably reproductive is just going to put him out there

• Speaker #1

  yeah i don't i i don't know why he's not a mutant right he is a mutant he is a mutant that's why he's so powerful oh and what what's his mutant power i he's he's just has like i they it always changes i think he's like a next level telepath though like i think he makes gene gray look normal he makes that look like a joke

• Speaker #2

  He's on a new level.

• Speaker #1

  He's so silly.

• Speaker #0

  The slut.

• Speaker #1

  Silly. Watch it.

• Speaker #0

  We are like Lewis and Clark if they also created the land they explored.

• Speaker #1

  Are you the mugger from Seinfeld? I don't know where I've been.

• Speaker #0

  I was actually doing the, there was a dance instructor in the Simpsons where Marge went to go learn the Macarena. Oh, okay. We do 12 steps ahead. It makes sex look like a joke.

• Speaker #1

  I'm with it.

• Speaker #0

  Our money is so gay. Who else we got on this list?

• Speaker #1

  Next up, we got Sue. Sue Z. Yeah, Sue. Trapped in Battleworld under Doom's rule. She's unaware.

• Speaker #0

  Trapped in Battleworld. That's my trapped in the closet with Trapped in Battleworld. Mark Kelly. Sorry. After Bill Cosby, anyone was fair game.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, no, that's where we draw the line.

• Speaker #0

  Well, those victims are going to get royalties off this podcast.

• Speaker #2

  As they should. Free toilet paper for life.

• Speaker #0

  And don't free R. Kelly. Anyway.

• Speaker #2

  This is the most ADHD episode I think we've ever done. But the book gave me ADHD.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, no, we have to break down our own breakdowns. Keep it entertained.

• Speaker #2

  Just so I don't have a breakdown.

• Speaker #1

  Miles and Peter. Hey, Peter. They survived the end of the multiverse and played small but pivotal roles in the rebellion. I love that when Reed and the Maker were talking, they were like, They're like, let's figure out the source of Doom's power and Reed's like, oh, I got my best man on it. yeah i also i had a question about miles was this because miles and the ultimate universe came about after peter died right he gets shot right taking a bullet for captain america does he come back does peter come back yeah uh not until very recently he knows this peter the 616 peter because uh the spider verse was originally a comic storyline you Before it was a movie. So they... Oh. They now in the Spider-Verse story.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, because I knew that they were from different universes because their fonts and the speech bubbles were different.

• Speaker #1

  Think of it very similar to like Peter B. and Miles in the Spider-Verse movies.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you. I was confused. Brent clears it up. Do no song.

• Speaker #2

  It's like the Oracle.

• Speaker #0

  Sounds like a sneeze. Bless you.

• Speaker #1

  I loved when you heard the ambient noise from me on the Nightwing episode. I'm like, I know exactly what I'm doing.

• Speaker #0

  I had no idea what it was.

• Speaker #2

  It's so funny. I want to get that sound bite.

• Speaker #0

  It's like Nightwing got it from Superman.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  I want to make it.

• Speaker #2

  I'm going to make that your text tone.

• Speaker #1

  Surprisingly, the noise I make when I nut, too.

• Speaker #0

  That's right.

• Speaker #2

  That's where it all comes from. Literally.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  You make it sound like a medical emergency.

• Speaker #2

  Help me. I'm about to...

• Speaker #1

  Look, Reed, I know. I stole your wife, but I just did it so I could...

• Speaker #2

  You have health insurance.

• Speaker #0

  You're either coming or going.

• Speaker #1

  uh next up we have namor he joins forces with black panther to oppose doom every time i love namor in this like uh because every time like he's supposed to do something he's like now you got it to charlotte yeah he also is like the most uh

• Speaker #0

  unasshole namor i've ever seen ever in this book he's like to charlie almost made me cry when you said uh i'll see you on the other side read it almost brought tears and then like he threw a trident through modak's head was given like two percent shit And he's like, your king said, come on. Y'all better come on. And I was like, wow, Namor's so cool when he's not trying to cuck Reed.

• Speaker #1

  I know. I also love how, like, when they get the gauntlet, Namor's like. You can't give me this.

• Speaker #0

  He even trusted himself. He's like, no, no, no. Do not give this pyro matches. Someone's got to step in and stop me at some point, guys. It's going to be me this time.

• Speaker #2

  What is that? Like, what does it do? What's the powers of it?

• Speaker #0

  The Infinity Gauntlet? Yeah. It's made up of five stones. You have six stones. Thank you. You have the reality stone, the soul stone. Stone what'd you say the funk stuff some bucks don't give you the powers of funk. What are the six? What are the six stones John Travolta

• Speaker #1

  There's the fever stone there's the grease Latin is the dildo Yo and of course there's the Knickits now Oh my god

• Speaker #0

  If you put all these stones together it's a gift You'll get Captain Planet

• Speaker #1

  And then I'll fuck Captain Planet That's how I stop pollution

• Speaker #0

  oh my god all right so it turns you gay kill two birds with one stone the stones is like they didn't have a meaning until james gunn wrote i think guardians of the galaxy and he just came up with what all the stones will do but they're gem in the comic they're gem the infinity gems but where are they realities uh soul

• Speaker #1

  mind mind time time space space and uh is it uh reality soul time mind space There's one more.

• Speaker #2

  Hold on,

• Speaker #0

  wait, I can answer this.

• Speaker #2

  I have a book with a cover on it. I usually don't. I tear that off. I didn't know you're supposed to keep those.

• Speaker #0

  It's hard to associate which is which from a movie. Okay, so blue was the Tesseract. That's the space. Okay, so green, what was that one?

• Speaker #1

  Green's time.

• Speaker #0

  Time. Orange.

• Speaker #1

  Orange is soul.

• Speaker #0

  Red,

• Speaker #1

  reality.

• Speaker #0

  Yellow,

• Speaker #1

  mind.

• Speaker #0

  what color is that no and that's the one we don't know what oh mind i don't think we said before we did say mine oh we did brown this one we don't have groundstone that's the that's

• Speaker #1

  it i'm not googling it we're keeping up with our tradition of not googling things this is the funk stuff it looks like the book from hocus pocus yeah My ex gave this to me and I found it in storage and I went to go get bone out.

• Speaker #0

  Witchcraft in there.

• Speaker #2

  You'll find that movie with that kid wherever just like, hey, we need to sacrifice a virgin.

• Speaker #1

  Power!

• Speaker #2

  Power! Power! There it is.

• Speaker #0

  A virgin made you remind you of power.

• Speaker #1

  No, I wasn't listening at all. I was really hung up.

• Speaker #0

  Fucking weirdo.

• Speaker #2

  What did you say? I just said power.

• Speaker #1

  No, before that.

• Speaker #0

  Doesn't matter.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, I was talking about how I hate Hocus Pocus because there's like this teenager in the movie. They're like, we got to sacrifice a virgin. They're like, we got a virgin.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, no. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  they snitched on their private back. No,

• Speaker #1

  I wasn't. You know, you said Hocus Pocus and then I thought of purple because Agatha all along. Oh, okay. Hocus was like Hocus Pocus

• Speaker #2

  2. Yo, real talk. I like the funkstone a lot more than the power stone. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  me too. It's the same thing. Funk and power go hand in hand. It's the Don Cornelius.

• Speaker #2

  The ability to summon the salt train.

• Speaker #0

  I was just going to say it's Ursula Linden.

• Speaker #2

  You can only use it on the 21st of September. Exactly.

• Speaker #1

  So in the Avengers movies, Thanos is, or the big event is like, the movies leading up to Endgame are the Infinity Saga. And each of the movies. has one of the stones in it and Thanos is tracing them all down so he can put them in the gauntlet and once you have all the stones you can basically just do anything it's like a less jagger yes yeah yeah yeah yeah through and through yeah uh and then you can dance you get your gauntlet and you paint it black um and what Thanos his goal was to get the gauntlet and then snap half of reality out of existence because the universe was running out of resources so when you get the gauntlet you can pretty much do anything so the argument always was why didn't he just double the world's resources.

• Speaker #2

  That's why he's way better in the comics because in the comics he's a simp.

• Speaker #1

  He's in love with He's doing it for Lady Death,

• Speaker #2

  right? Because the argument you made is exactly why it doesn't work in the movies. Like, yeah, the movies are good but it's just like he's Ricardian, I get it. Yeah, just double the resources. In the comics, it's like, hey, I'm in love with this woman. She's the embodiment of death so to impress her I'm going to wipe out half the universe. Oh. And she's not impressed.

• Speaker #1

  This comic fit. Yeah, no, she isn't.

• Speaker #2

  And he's pissed.

• Speaker #0

  Witch. The genocide does not make me witch.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, who am I, Padme?

• Speaker #0

  I need a global genocide, okay? I need a multiverse of death. And then maybe you can get in my pants.

• Speaker #2

  We have like a few more. Like, this is just a group. These are like the survivors, like Captain Marvel, Star-Lord, The Maker. These are key survivors. Yeah. Makers from Ultimate. Captain Marvel and Star-Lord are from 616.

• Speaker #1

  How did they end up on the same raft? Did they?

• Speaker #2

  It's a great question. No, they were in different. They were. There's the Ultimate one, and then there was like, yeah.

• Speaker #1

  The Maker's one of my favorite Ultimate characters. I love him. He, correct me if I'm wrong, but like Sue leaves him, and then he does that thing to his brain and then becomes a bad guy. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  He sets off Ultimatum.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, that's right. Because he's the one who, did he take out? Wanda and Quicksilver.

• Speaker #2

  I honestly haven't read that book in a while, but I think that's probably what happens. And if I'm wrong, I'm sorry, please.

• Speaker #1

  Rhett does not like that book.

• Speaker #2

  No, I think Ultimatum. No, I'm okay with Ultimatum. I just haven't read in a while, and I'm not going to Google it because that's what we don't... We don't do that on this show.

• Speaker #1

  You see this? That's us drawing our own conclusions, Mr. Alex Ross. Thank you.

• Speaker #2

  We jump to conclusions.

• Speaker #0

  We do.

• Speaker #2

  It's a jump to conclusions, Matt.

• Speaker #0

  And we always land.

• Speaker #1

  Who else you got on the sheet?

• Speaker #2

  Last up, I just have the Thor corpse. So they're dooms enforcers, many of whom rebel against him.

• Speaker #0

  So many Thors. Yeah. So little time. I wish there were that many Hemsworths.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Never walk again.

• Speaker #0

  There's only three, but you only know of two.

• Speaker #2

  One of them, the Kevin Jonas of the Hemsworths.

• Speaker #0

  It's so sad. Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  I know.

• Speaker #1

  Now, why didn't he take the Thors and the Hulks and make them his...

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, that's it. Who the fuck is the Maestro? Is that Bruce?

• Speaker #1

  I never knew who that was. I thought you knew.

• Speaker #2

  No, I had no idea. I thought maybe that was Bruce.

• Speaker #1

  I just kept thinking of the Seinfeld episode.

• Speaker #0

  The Maestro.

• Speaker #2

  That guy was Niedermeyer in the original Animal House movie.

• Speaker #1

  The Maestro? Oh, wow.

• Speaker #2

  You're six months and a week. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, man. You have no idea who that is. Hulks, like this Captain America movie I told you was the Incredible Hulk 2. And the Hulks have such cool stories, and there's so many cool things you can do with them, but it's just never done right because they just focus on, they always focus on the smashing.

• Speaker #0

  I know. That one panel that lasted, it was like.

• Speaker #2

  I know.

• Speaker #1

  Pass. I mean,

• Speaker #2

  smash it. Bop it. Smash it.

• Speaker #0

  Twist it. in my mouth.

• Speaker #2

  What was that?

• Speaker #1

  Hulk smash when Hulk have consent.

• Speaker #2

  I'm on board and so am I.

• Speaker #0

  You want to save the universe you must play a game of puppet.

• Speaker #1

  You ever notice how old Brent's impressions are gay?

• Speaker #2

  What are you talking about? How could I be gay when I work out so much?

• Speaker #1

  It is dudes shirtless around dudes.

• Speaker #0

  Smash.

• Speaker #2

  I'm not gay but if I was

• Speaker #1

  be into it come over next week my husband and i having wine we like wine i love that he is gay and separate he is gay and separate yeah it's really i think we're putting out a force field it's catching on you and i or an item or an item of some kind you caught up right yeah i watched it the night it came out did you and i yo yeah

• Speaker #2

  so now that we've got the characters down this uh why did you do a sentence breakdown rather than book by book because there's just a lot going on here like i mean like slady i was confused reading this and i'm like and i fucking live and breathe this stuff and i'm like why are we spending so much time with maximus why is the thing a wall or went anywhere i am maximus meridius you

• Speaker #1

  know who the prophet is it's maximus and they were like asshole who is that man you

• Speaker #2

  He was a herald of the classics, sir.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  is he a human? Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And humans just like, why have they never caught on?

• Speaker #2

  Because it's like trying to make fetch happen. They're just not going to.

• Speaker #0

  We should totally just kill Doom.

• Speaker #2

  We should totally kill Doom. Reed is just as pretty as Doom.

• Speaker #0

  Reed is just as smart as Doom. We should totally just stab Doom.

• Speaker #1

  Mean guns, right? Yeah. See,

• Speaker #0

  we're all learning. Thanks. Learning time.

• Speaker #2

  You're honestly getting pretty good.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you. I'm trying. I have to. It only is good when I say Brian. Right.

• Speaker #2

  Because I have to. Like my Joe. Peter. Hey. Yeah. Hey, Peter. Hey, Peter.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Did you ever watch The Inhuman Show?

• Speaker #2

  No. I heard it was terrible.

• Speaker #1

  I heard it was terrible.

• Speaker #2

  Ramsey plays Max missing it, though, and apparently that's the only highlight.

• Speaker #1

  Ramsey Bolton? Yeah. Oh,

• Speaker #2

  I was going to say you knew exactly what I was talking about.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. There's only like one character I can think that's one named Ramsey.

• Speaker #0

  Ramsey Gordon. Ramsey.

• Speaker #1

  I can't know he's just a really nice chef. Make your time. It's very hard to prepare a meal for 45 out there. You went to culinary school for five years. Your mother's dead. This was her dream, not yours.

• Speaker #0

  This is live television.

• Speaker #1

  Beef Wellington takes all day.

• Speaker #2

  All day.

• Speaker #0

  I'm trying to make you do it in two hours.

• Speaker #1

  It's Hell's Kitchen for a reason. What? What elements would MCU be wise to pick up on from this book to adapt this Secret Wars and not make the same mistake of a Civil War? Because we already know they're going into this too fast. Totally. But I feel like that doesn't mean they can't save it. It could be done well.

• Speaker #2

  I don't know what they're going to do with Doomsday, but I think it will... Me either. Yeah, because I feel it will lead directly into this.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's going to be an Infinity Game endgame.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, because apparently Strange isn't in Doomsday.

• Speaker #1

  But then he came out and said, wait, I am in Doomsday. I didn't realize it.

• Speaker #2

  Right. He's probably near the end, because he's going to play an enormous role in this, obviously. Right.

• Speaker #1

  Probably will have the same amount of screen time in Doomsday that he did in Endgame, where they're popping up.

• Speaker #0

  Is it still going to be Benedict Cumberbatch? Yeah. I like him as Dr. Stranger.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, he's great.

• Speaker #1

  He does, too.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. He should be the guy. He should be the face. Yeah. When we're talking about who's going to be the new face, and who's obviously supposed to be Chadwick, it should be Benedict. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Well, who has had more story? than Benedict the Broken. You know, like, really.

• Speaker #0

  Why didn't he, didn't he retire? Benedict? Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  I don't think so.

• Speaker #0

  I thought he did and then he, like, keeps coming back. It's like fucking Tom Brady.

• Speaker #2

  What's his name retired?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it might be confusing with someone's name.

• Speaker #2

  The method actor.

• Speaker #1

  Daniel Day-Lewis? Yes.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. That's who I was thinking of.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, he's been playing Benedict Cumberbatch.

• Speaker #0

  They're similar to me. I don't know why.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, they both abandoned their boys. my boy my boy strange was cool in this like wasn't that i read it again today where i always thought he was just kind of a yes man keeping his head down but then as i'm reading it today i'm like no he's really kind of like the only one keeping

• Speaker #2

  doom in check or like keeping doom at bay because he knows what he's capable of and he also is the only one with memories of what used to exist he made the deal with the devil and he's like i don't trust doom he goes but this is better than nothingness But then when Reed came back, he's like, oh, okay, we can be something more.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Which Doom always knew. Yeah. Doom, I don't think, is capable of creating, which I mean, he obviously surrenders to Reed at the end when he's fighting. He's like, yeah, you could have built this world better. But Doom's just not capable of building a world like that. Now, I, for one, would always argue that I would live under Doom's rule in Latveria. You have job security. You have no. foreign hostile takeovers you have benevolent ruler you have three meals a day in three meals a day like doom pretty much keeps it tight that very magic nobody nobody learned sleight of hand in latveria where's your tax returns they're right here it's behind your ear like compared to like what we got going on over here i'd rather take doom um but he he would not be capable of being a god and he even very early in this book comes to terms with that where he's like it might be impossible to create a perfect world and then still reign God supreme over it. The old gods may have had a better idea. You create the world and step back and make them believe in you,

• Speaker #2

  which is what Reed and his family do with the end. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  That's why it works.

• Speaker #0

  Doom's always been trying to like be the ruler of everything and everyone though. Like that's just his ego.

• Speaker #2

  So out of whack. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And I think that's what the Fantastic Four, being stolen as his family, sort of are always in your face within this book. Like, he can't help himself. He's like Jimmy McGibbon. It's crazy,

• Speaker #0

  though. Like, was her memory gone? Or was it a different version of her?

• Speaker #2

  Sue? Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  When the rafts and everything were getting pulled, I assume that was Doom pulling them into the universe. I agree, yeah. In the battle. Right?

• Speaker #0

  And that reads stretchy off.

• Speaker #1

  And he couldn't catch her. And then when Doom pulled them into Battleworld. the memories just start over. So he brainwashed her with the Fantastic Four story.

• Speaker #0

  So it was basically severed. Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  it was severed, yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Pretty much everybody in that world.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, add one confusing reference to another and it makes sense.

• Speaker #2

  Replace Doom with Cure.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Oh, yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Yo.

• Speaker #0

  Mr. White. That's crazy.

• Speaker #1

  Replace Doctor Strange with Adam Scott.

• Speaker #0

  Compare it to other things and then it makes more sense.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, geez. The WAD.

• Speaker #0

  So amazing.

• Speaker #1

  I watched him in an interview where somebody was like, why do you highlight some words and don't highlight others? And he was like, look at dialogue like a song. I like to sing some notes. Definitely. He said that? Yeah, I was like, that's perfect. I love that.

• Speaker #2

  A song by Foe Fighters.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that's the first thing I thought of. The Beyonders in this were a cool aspect. I really loved them. I loved the zombie horde was really cool.

• Speaker #2

  Zombie horde was cool.

• Speaker #0

  I was going to ask about those fuckers.

• Speaker #2

  The symbiote, the Venom symbiote.

• Speaker #1

  I'll show you what the others, as long as they get to eat your brains. What were you going to ask about the zombies?

• Speaker #0

  Some people were so hungry in this.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Jesus.

• Speaker #2

  Pugry did not.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, I hope you swallow. So I was wondering what the zombie situation was. Like, were they like... dead uh other like heroes and stuff or was it bad guys like was one of them like captain america zombie who is that one he was the one who jumped yeah that was captain britain oh i'm the one who jumps yeah the one who was like when it's your time and people drag you down don't let them just jump okay what are you doing banished like the little freaking portal thing and then that was the distraction yeah okay yeah and those were from uh there was a book series

• Speaker #1

  I guess it's like always on and off. It just depends on what they feel like doing with it called Marvel zombies. And it was a, like walking dead had a baby with them with, with the Marvel universe. And there's just a zombie outbreak. And so I guess doom took part of that world and made them the banishment wall. And then the annihilation horde is a fantastic for thing that I, I predominantly, I remember. Yeah. I think for me, like

• Speaker #0

  They were behind that wall and then they broke it down?

• Speaker #1

  The zombies were behind the wall that the thing was. But they were in front of the Annihilation Horde. That's not how they got through. They got through because T'Challa popped up and went through this portal. The Annihilation Horde, the second wave of things, were behind the wall. And that's what broke when the thing decided, okay, yeah, this isn't all real. And they were able to be reasoned with. And Doom ordered them to go after... the detractors yeah okay that's kind of like freaking white walkers yeah yeah zombies behind white walkers that's essentially all it was it was like two sets of the same thing okay one was it's like if you put uh alien invaders behind white walkers the alien invaders from war of the worlds behind zombies wow this is layered yo yo

• Speaker #0

  i feel high again what i feel high i know i feel like i got a contact type of you it's not even high anymore i uh just as

• Speaker #2

  You wanna get high? You wanna get high? You're telling me that you can build this whole perfect universe yourself! That's what you thought,

• Speaker #1

  didn't you? Didn't you, Richards?

• Speaker #2

  Richards, you can save your friends, or you can get high.

• Speaker #1

  I guess I'll see my friends another time.

• Speaker #2

  She was both.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, no, baby washcloth.

• Speaker #1

  I can save my friends and get out. Baby Valeria.

• Speaker #2

  I think my favorite line in this is when Doom and Reed are fighting, and it's before. Reed goes, yeah, I know I do a better job than you. When Doom is like, you think you're better than me? And Doom is like, and Reed's like, no, you don't get it. I always thought you could be better than who you are.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Because that's the difference between a hero and a villain right there. And Reed in this book, at the end, he comes to terms with who he is, but throughout it is grappling with the terms of what it means to be a hero. He couldn't really save his wife. He shows up. He sees Doom has stolen this whole thing. He's like, am I really a hero? And that is what makes him a hero. Because heroes... The best ones, we always say, are the ones that save the people that they think they can save and not the ones who just, you know. And although the Punisher does have a really cool thing in this. When Wilson invites them all to have a drink at a bar and then the Punisher shows up to the bar where all the villains are drinking. And he goes, gentlemen, they say when you die, you can't take it with you. Which begs the question, what am I going to do with all these bullets? And then cuts away,

• Speaker #2

  inferring their Omar Little vibes there. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, my God, yeah. Oh, indeed. And so before the world ends, the Punisher had one more business, one more order of business, and that was to merc all of the villains that were still in Manhattan. And I thought that was the most Punisher thing ever. So great. And that Punisher I read is Jon Barenthal. That Punisher hated those villains because they take naps.

• Speaker #2

  Wait, wait, they take naps? Like, as in, like... No,

• Speaker #1

  Jon Barenthal, like, has a beef with naps. You ever watch him, like, on TikTok, and he's like, I don't take naps, man. That's for the... the birds like you're like sleeping during the day man like what are you taking a nap for fisk let me tell you something fisk let me tell you something man i got eight hours sometimes four man you take naps he has like a bro has a whole beef with naps wow hates naps not a napper he is not the punisher because someone killed his family he's the punisher because his family came home one day and they were all napping he's like out of here he's like drink i don't take naps me and the money i went to with that Yeah, he was like, what are you guys in here, napping? I also loved the emails. Like, Fisk just had the emails ready to go.

• Speaker #0

  With those email addresses. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  the lizard.com. At whocares.com.

• Speaker #2

  I love how the lizard made his own email. It's like, yeah, it's like, Kurt Connors has no idea.

• Speaker #1

  Kurt Connors at midtownhigh.com. The lizard at midtownhigh.com. And they're still like, who is the lizard? His password is Kirk Connors. You might be in danger, Doc.

• Speaker #0

  Capital K.

• Speaker #1

  Any other pointers about this book?

• Speaker #2

  No, I think we're good.

• Speaker #1

  I think if PS5 went into rest mode.

• Speaker #2

  We can probably get into the Kirby tier, right?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Do you have any other notes?

• Speaker #0

  No, I'm glad it's over.

• Speaker #1

  well gang uh if you have any uh uh questions comments because there's please leave them behind we're gonna follow along and then we're gonna jump into kirby tier which we drop one episode a month and this week is the kirby tier month so please continue to follow us along uh true believers you everybody is part of the highest tier and right oh i was like a piece of string on you and there's a little piece of string with all of us in kirby tier please be sure to follow along This book was certainly dense, but it was one of our hit requested ones. For sure. Be sure to please, if there's any more mainstream hit comics you want us to see us cover, please do.

• Speaker #2

  I don't know. It's good. I want to preface that. I did enjoy it. It was good. I loved it.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  that was great.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, this is just my last episode, so.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah.