Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Hello and welcome to the Skilled AF podcast, where we give diverse voices connected to the skilled trades a platform to share their story. I'm your host, Amanda Lucchetti, founder of The Skilled Project, an organization on a mission to inspire 1 million people to explore skilled trades and construction careers by 2028. You can learn more about the org at theskilledproject.com. Today, I'm joined by Renee Sams, founder and executive director of BuildHer.org, an organization dedicated to increasing visibility and representation for women in construction and the skilled trades. She's also the author of BuildHer, Be Heard, a personal growth guide for women in construction. In our conversation, we talk about how she found construction a half-strand in life and how it's been a vehicle for her personal growth and transformation. We discuss her experience working on high-stakes projects like building data centers, the future of that work. her reasoning for starting her organization, her book, The Power of Financial Independence, especially for women, and why sharing your story can be one of the most radical acts of leadership. Wherever you're at in the world, we hope you enjoy. Well, Renee, welcome to the Skilled AF podcast. I am so stoked to have you here today.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, thank you. Thanks for having me. Happy to be here.

• Speaker #0

  So I would love to hear about your upbringing and your story and how you found yourself in the construction industry.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, absolutely. And it gets messy, right? And a lot of women can probably relate to that. So I grew up in a small town, youngest of three kids. I had two older brothers. My mom was in the service industry. She did a lot of work in hotels, hospitality, things like that. and My father was discharged from the military early on before we were even born. So he was a Navy veteran, served in Vietnam. And there wasn't really any exposure to the construction industry whatsoever or the trades. It was a lot of seeing a lot of the hardships growing up. We didn't grow up with a lot. My mom was a primary breadwinner. She did work two or three jobs at once. And it left us kids to try to... you know, stay at home, figure things out for ourselves. I would end up cooking, cleaning, helping to ease that burden for her growing up at a very young age. And, you know, I don't remember too many dreams of what my career path could be growing up. It wasn't until, you know, like maybe my teen, early teen years, I started to see like, okay, it's just hardships. Like I just have to work, make a paycheck and make ends meet. You know, we were a family of five and we were living in very small homes, rented two-bedroom apartments, and it was very tough for us to figure out how to get in, you know, make ends meet. My mom was on welfare using food stamps. My dad ended up getting very heavily into gambling, so it was a challenge to see a lot of that. She was absolutely strong and that's somebody that I looked up to was my mother. As far as construction and the trades, it was just never an idea. I saw service industry, retail, all the things that were available to me, and then potentially military. I had a few aunts that were nurses and uncles that were also in the military. So those were kind of what I viewed as potential careers for myself. You know, the doctors, the lawyers, the teachers, all of those that required a lot more schooling, a lot more money to attend college. I felt like those were way out of reach for me. So I just continued. I got my first job at 15 and it was at a hotel. And it was just that that grind started early on. And when I got into high school, I started getting into a lot of like drinking and cutting class before in middle school, elementary school. I was generally a decent kid. But as soon as I hit that teen age, I started getting into a lot of drinking and going out late, staying out late, partying, cutting class. And I was cutting class to the point where I wouldn't do any homework. I wouldn't do any courses like within the class, but I'd show up for exams and I'd pass them. So I was just barely coasting on passing these classes where a high school counselor brought me in, said, hey, you should probably look into taking the equivalency exam. and then figure out what you want to do. There wasn't any additional coaching or like, hey, how can we curb any of this? It was almost like, how are you not going to be our problem anymore? And I ended up taking it. I passed it at 16. And then shortly after, I said, okay, well, now what do I do? So I thought of different routes to take. I entered a culinary institute where I can learn more about the service industry and cooking. I said, okay, well, I'm doing a lot of this already. This could potentially be a path for me. So I moved down to Southern California, attended that school alone. I was 17 in a bigger city by myself trying to figure all this shit out. And, you know, it was great for a while, learned so much, met a lot of great people. But then I got into drinking again and staying out. And I started following those same patterns of just, OK, I'm going to be up all night. We're going to party. We're going to drink. And then I'll show up for another exam and then pass it. So it was a lot of unhealthy traits and patterns that I was following. And that was like the age of 17. And going on 18 is when my mom got really sick. I ended up losing her 10 days after my 18th birthday. She passed away. And not being close to my father, you know, my brothers are still trying to figure out their shit on their own. So it was just, all right, well, here I am. I got to figure out life as a young adult and figure it out by myself. And I think a lot of that was spawned because we didn't grow up, you know, traditionally like Hispanic families, Filipino families. they're all focused on each other, family, that whole dynamic. But our family was just, we were so far away from everybody. So we didn't have that close relationship that a lot of people expect in those households.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, that unit. That's what I think about is that those cultures typically have the strongest family units.

• Speaker #1

  And we didn't have that. So although I didn't know my father's of the family at all. My mother's side, I knew them, but we were distant. And even though they'd be willing to jump in and help after my mom passed away, I couldn't. I was just, I isolated myself, built up the walls and didn't let anybody in. And I just buried myself in work. When I started getting into the two jobs, you know, trying to make ends meet, trying to live on my own. I said, shit, there's got to be a better way. Right. So I said, okay, maybe if I get into an office environment, I can find something a little bit more stable, something that can get me. within a realm that I could be successful. And I applied at a temp agency. I got a few placements that didn't follow through very well. And then I landed at an architectural and engineering firm that had a construction management arm. And that's really like what broke open the entire vision on my career.

• Speaker #0

  I first want to say I'm so sorry about your mom. To navigate that at 18 and then not have that support system. you were by yourself. It just, one, it just shows how strong you are as an individual, but it's just crazy to think at that age, you were figuring it out on your own. And so props to you for being able to do that. I know that had to have been the hardest time. And a couple of questions, like you moved down to Southern California by yourself, 17 years old. What were you doing? You're working in the service industry. I'm just curious, Like, did you have roommates? How did you exist down there? And. were able to make that move?

• Speaker #1

  The move just came with student loans because culinary institute was a private institute and they still had that availability to student loans. I didn't know anything about it. You know, my mom was doing the best that she could and she was just trying to encourage me on anything that we were doing. So she signed us up for that student loan and it covered housing and courses, but it didn't cover a lot of the necessities like food or, you know, getting around town. So I remember there was a couple events where I needed to buy a bus pass and I barely had a few dollars to my name and I walked into a bank, withdrew the last three dollars in that bank account so I could have a bus pass for the week to get to class. So that, signing up for those student loans, not having any knowledge of it, it started to rack in a lot of debt for me unknowingly. not financially savvy at that age.

• Speaker #0

  None of us are.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  And so, yeah, I just started adding up. And so you were there. Did you have roommates or like, what was that experience like?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I did. I had roommates. It was four of us in a two bedroom apartment and they were all in different courses throughout that school. So there was a culinary arm, there was graphic design, interior design. And a few of my roommates were graphic designers or interior designers and we got along really well. But there was also like, okay, holidays come around and weekends come up and they've got family to hang out with. And it's just like, okay, well, I'll stick around here and I'll find some work to do.

• Speaker #0

  And so then you ended up at that temp agency. How old were you then when you got that role?

• Speaker #1

  I was 19 going on 20. I think just turning 20 years old when I got into the architectural and engineering firm as an engineering assistant. So I would work with... these professional engineers in infrastructure. So they were doing roadways, bridges, sand walls in Orange County in Southern California. And that's the first time that I saw women in power positions that I was like, oh, like, I love this. You know, there was women that were professional engineers, there was office administrators and operations managers. And that's the first time that I saw like a different path. But then I kept holding on to that reserve. Well, I can't go to college. I can't afford to go to college to become that. So what else can I do? So in that role, you know, I learned so much because they were all willing to help me along that path. I learned more about drawings, specifications, estimates, working with submittals from the contractor. They got me into marketing and business development as a coordinator, and it all just helped towards my growth early on. which was great. And when I was able to go out to these job sites to do constructability reviews with the design team, that's when I really got a hold of the construction industry and seeing bare empty land and our design to bring it to life and all of the different contractors involved in to make that happen. We were talking about logistics. How do we get the workforce out here? How do we get materials out here? So those conversations started. spawning like, okay, I want to be on that side where I can help solve those challenges.

• Speaker #0

  Well, I'm sure your confidence is just building then. You're like, oh, great. I'm good at this. I can see a future here. The fact that you graduated early, basically the high school pushed you out in a way. And so it's like, you are in a position where you can actually start to build your confidence. And yeah, you're like, I have a path. I finally see something that can move me forward.

• Speaker #1

  Absolutely. And uh, Unfortunately, again, a young adult woman trying to figure life out on her own, I got wrapped up in the wrong situation yet again, even when I had a great trajectory from that point. So I made a lot of mistakes that I had to pay for, wrong toxic relationships that drug me into a worse position with my confidence or knowledge of my ability. And every single time I just had to keep working find my way out of it, whatever job I picked up, I would excel at. I'd always be offered promotions and salary increases because people knew that I was just hungry for the work. I was determined to succeed. It took me to Oklahoma for a good stint, back to Bakersfield, and eventually into Guam. And then when I landed in Guam, I, again, just started finding ways to work, finding ways to provide for myself and you know, that other person now because I was in that toxic relationship. But then eventually I found my way into general contractor. And I said, okay, well, I was an engineer's assistant. I know about drawings. I know about specs. I know enough to break my way into this new territory on the construction side. And it was in that role where I started to be able to be assigned to a job site, learn more about the construction world. as it is, you know, all the different roles available. And that's really what set me into that realm of financial independence, where I could break free of that relationship that kind of drug me down, drug my confidence down and everything. And that's been my just complete story of turning everything around and going towards a better life because I was able to get out of that relationship, have the money to get an apartment on my own, have a car on my own. And continue just growing in my career.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. The financial independence, right? I think about both construction and skilled trades and how there are industries that can give women financial independence. I mean, give anybody financial independence, but that is huge because you resort from a safety perspective of like, oh, I need this person in my life to help me. I can't do it on my own. And then that minute though, you have the independence. You can get a hold of your life and make those decisions that are going to be best for you.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  But it's like getting out of that, seeing the light.

• Speaker #1

  Right. Yeah. It took some time, but eventually when I got there, it was huge to me.

• Speaker #0

  Well, let's keep talking about your role in the construction industry, and then we'll pivot to how you started your organization. But I think it's very fascinating, the work that you were doing. You were on really important infrastructure projects, data centers, which I find fascinating with AI and everything that's happening. Crazy stats around a trillion is getting invested in data centers in the US in the next five years. and that's going to be another trillion internationally is going to get invested in the next five years. That's a lot of money going to data centers. Who are going to build those data centers? Guild trades and construction workers. So I'd love to talk about, obviously you traveled a lot, but talk about that work and a bit more of some of the projects that you're working on in the industry.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. So early on, a lot of my roles were on the federal construction side. I was a part of the military buildup, a lot of the infrastructure and buildings to reconstruct and renovate wharf projects for the U.S. Navy, hangars for the Air Force, and it was just constantly seeing ships come into the bay and all these huge military projects. And to be a part of it was really something that just encouraged me and kept me going. kind of scene is Michigan critical on the federal side because we were the tip of spear in Guam because time you know getting all the threats from overseas that was major component for our military to be able to stand our ground so the work was there the work was available and to build some really cool shit same time and then you know moving into Hawaii after Guam I worked projects for the Coast Guard and for the Marine Base and seeing more of those things. I got to be, you know, feet from like an Osprey helicopter, the one with the dual props, and just being part of those projects and seeing all those things close up and knowing that, hey, I rebuilt that facility or I worked on that facility. It was just such a cool thing to be a part of. When I moved from Hawaii to Phoenix is when I was put on a data center proposal and they brought me over for that job. And I had no idea what data centers were. I didn't know what the big buzz was on why they needed me on that job. And I started to see it all unfold. And I was like, okay, well, it's just like a glorified electrical substation, not anything really fancy about it. But once I got into the work and got to see all the dynamic behind it, where it's just the critical facility that it is. to support everybody on the cloud and all of these data processing applications. That's when I was like, okay, this is my speed. I like this, right? Again, I went in not knowing anything, but construction and all it is, is the same thing. You build the foundation, you go into the erection of the steel, the slab on grade, you just keep moving and you're building, building, and there's just different components each time. So when I talk to different people in the trades and the construction industry, their trade can just easily transfer over. It's not anything that can be untouched because it's tech. We still need HVAC, we still need plumbing, we still need electrical, structural steel, concrete. It's all the same stuff that we all know and love, but it's just in a different form. And anyone that shies away from doing data centers, it's just like, hey, it's just a different form of what we're doing. So it's available to everyone.

• Speaker #0

  And are there specialty contractors then that do data centers? Is that like all they do?

• Speaker #1

  There are some out there. The list is growing for people that only want to focus on data center work. And it's because of the critical nature of it. There's a lot involved when it comes to commissioning and getting the facility turned over, all the redundancy with the power and the fiber, the connectivity, all of those things take a really heightened level. of expertise. So there's some people that just want to dive only into that, you know, not mess around with residential or other commercial stuff, but just focus solely on that. And a lot of contractors have dedicated mission critical or data center organizations within their company so that their team can only focus on those builds also.

• Speaker #0

  I remember talking with you previously and you were saying that there was like zero margin for error.

• Speaker #1

  If the data center goes down and you think of, you know, our banking or airlines or anybody else that's on that cloud. server system. It's a huge deal. I think last year, American Airlines or Delta Airlines had that big failure where they were offline for a few days.

• Speaker #0

  And there was... Might have been Southwest.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, there was millions of flights canceled, people just, you know, stuck wherever they were at. So it's a big deal to make sure that those facilities are built to that quality and that standard, and that they remain available, you know, nonstop. with very low margin for error.

• Speaker #0

  I'm sure that means it's very stressful. There can't be.

• Speaker #1

  So during COVID, you know, we would always hear stories about our friends and people that didn't have any work because COVID just left everybody working remote or not working at all. And, you know, construction, we were part of that ongoing workforce. We had to keep building because now more people were going to the cloud, going online. So we worked nonstop to just keep these facilities going.

• Speaker #0

  You were not anything. It's like work was packed on. So you're saying when you moved from, was it in Hawaii, you moved to Phoenix?

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  That was when in Hawaii, the toxic relationship was done. You moved on to Phoenix, correct?

• Speaker #1

  Well, Guam, I was able to get out of that toxic relationship. It was bordering on physical abuse. and once it kind of hit that territory. I had that project coordinator role going on to a field engineer, project engineer role, and I had that stability. So I was able to say like, screw this, I'm not dealing with this anymore because I had that independence.

• Speaker #0

  Got it. So then you go to Hawaii and then you get the opportunity in Phoenix. Yes. And you're in Phoenix now.

• Speaker #1

  I am. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  You've had a really crazy journey. well on top of like the personal right but it I think it's so interesting where the industry took you, took you everywhere. What aspects have you loved most about the industry and what aspects are you like, ugh, this needs to improve big time?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I think the aspects that I like are the camaraderie between the team. I wouldn't be where I'm at today if I didn't have a lot of the superintendents, the foremen, the PMs, the quality managers, the people that invested in my growth and my curiosity. So. camaraderie hands down like i can meet somebody and i do regularly now through the non-profit and meet people that we just we just vibe off of each other and we get it we understand each other we get along and it's just that full sense of belonging somewhere you know i've i've got long-term friends that i've worked with on these jobs years and years ago and they'll years down the line, we'll still connect and we'll still have the same laughs about the stuff that we had to deal with on these projects. So I think that's the biggest aspect that I love. I also love being a part of something bigger than nobody else could be. So rebuilding those wharfs, seeing all those ships and aircrafts really close up is something that a lot of people can't imagine or they haven't experienced. So it's something that is in my resume that I can be proud of, that I helped with those projects. And I think where we struggle is just not being able to highlight those people that are doing the work, the people with the boots on the ground, the people that need that extra push to show that you're leadership material and your story matters. We want to hear from you instead of the, you know, the folks in the ivory tower shouting down orders or seeing how great they are in their career. We need to fill that gap for everybody in between.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. This like office field. relationship and respect. So then with all this in mind, when did you decide then to start your organization, write your book? You've wrote, I guess what came first? It might be in tandem, but what was that pivotal moment when you're like, you know what, I need to focus my energy and effort here?

• Speaker #1

  I started hearing a lot of the same concerns and questions come up from people, you know, men and women would come to me and confide in me and advice. And on the women's side of the house, it's just, you know, the sexual advances or the not being heard, being talked over, not being taken seriously. All of those concerns were coming up. And I was like, I dealt with this shit, you know, 18 years ago. Why is this still a problem? And I felt, how do I best materialize that so I could reach women that don't have me nearby. They don't have like a woman in a leadership position to talk to. They don't have a woman on their team that they can trust.

• Speaker #0

  You're a mentor. You're acting as a mentor figure, right? I mean,

• Speaker #1

  I would never call myself a mentor, but that's kind of where the whole organization and book were developed is just being able to show people that no matter what position that they're in, no matter where they're at in their career, they could be that to somebody else, either working beside them or coming up right behind them in the industry. Them sharing, them connecting, talking through all the challenges that we all face. I think that is what's important. important for people to understand. And the book just kind of flooded out. I left my role. I was a prominent role in the data center industry. I was overseeing a campus build out with multiple buildings for a large tech provider as a senior program manager in that role. So there was that whole component of like, sure, it's a lot of money. It's keeping me busy, but I'm not learning. I'm not developing and I'm not helping anybody. I'm just kind of in this position moving forward. with the current. And being able to help people has been a huge, huge pivot in my career, because now I'm being able to connect with people within my region nationally and have these conversations and encourage more women to do what they're doing. And the book kind of flooded out after that.

• Speaker #0

  You're the perfect person for it because you can resonate with so many people from so many... different walks of life because you've experienced it. You've done this. You've gone through both, would say the highs and the lows. And it makes sense why the universe pulled you in this direction. You would have significantly more impact, right? On other women to be able to share your story and just being able to understand what they're also going through.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And it's never been, even when I started the book and the nonprofit organization, I've always you know, curbed from being in the spotlight. I've never wanted it to be about me. And in a couple of the iterations of one of my keynote speech that I've been preparing is, I don't need you to remember my name. I need you to remember why your story is important. I even don't have like the name, my name on the cover of the book or anywhere really that you could find it besides like really, really small print in the copyright. But it's never been about me. Like I'll share my story only in a sense. to help them feel comfortable about sharing their own story. And the book itself is just driven on writing prompts and journaling for women to connect with that same topic and talk about what's important to them.

• Speaker #0

  And obviously there's the journaling prompts and stuff, but what do you, both in interacting with your org and also the book, what do you want people to take away from it? What's a single piece that you're like, I just want them to take this away from it? The major component that I want the readers and everybody to take away is just be happy with the things that you've lived through and appreciate your story where it got you to today and keep pushing and find a way to bring that to other people.

• Speaker #1

  My previous episode I just recorded, he mentioned like how your path does not define your future. That's what I'm hearing right now is you also saying that in a different way.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And there's so many people it's been so inspiring. I get inspired by people that are 15 years younger than me, 10 years younger than me every day by hearing the stories that, hey, I turned my life around because I was on drugs or I was in a bad spot in life. And I turned my life around because I found construction. I found that structure that helped me learn a trade or learn a role that I could be good at. And that in itself is why I like to encourage people to share their stories with the people around them, with high school students, middle school students, wherever they feel comfortable. I think it's just putting that all to action for everybody these days. Just if we want the culture shift to happen, we all have to put our claim in making that happen and sharing your story is a good part of it.

• Speaker #1

  It's interesting when you think about the power of the industry, right? We're both focused in this space because we see the potential of the industry and in helping a lot of different people, especially people that don't grow up from in a traditional family or didn't have the resources to navigate our school system. People are able to find success in this industry. And so it's like people want to give back, but also we need more women in the industry. We need more people to see themselves in the industry. And I've heard about like... And this is also with all industries, but like there's the toxic, I don't know if it's toxic masculinity or something. I hear it in this industry, but I'm like, I've heard it in so many different places of like, how do we change a culture or this work culture? What do we need to do in order to make it just a better place for people to thrive?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And I would say you're right. It's not only heightened on the construction side of the house. It happens in so many different industries where women are not. appreciated or they don't, their knowledge or their experience isn't, I guess, respected. And in the construction industry, you'll see it also, but you'll also see the opposite of that, where I mentioned earlier in my story that several men on my team were willing to feed into that curiosity when I had questions and help support me in learning and developing.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. allies or whatever. You can't alienate. Men are just as important to lift up women and all of this, right? But there's these barriers. And so I guess in this topic of workforce and barriers, how is your organization helping fill that gap? And maybe just going through even more detail, the barriers that you're seeing. And this is what I'm hoping we can help in addressing these barriers.

• Speaker #0

  So speaking from my own experience and what I see my perception can vary, you know, drastically from the next woman. But what I've seen is just not a lot of minority women in leadership positions that are truly getting the spotlight. So there could be panels and there's hardly any women of color on that panel or women at all. And as a woman of color, as a minority woman, I start to think like, well, I guess I'm not there yet. Or I guess there's not enough women of color that are respected enough to be in those positions. So that's always been a barrier that I've seen for myself, which is why, again, since I don't like the spotlight, I don't like to put myself out there. I'm forcing myself to do it in order to be that visual representation for other women to also see like, okay, we could do this too. I can share my story and I can get out there and also feed into that.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, we're going to represent you. We're going to get you out there. So representation, huge. And then is there another barrier that's like top of mind for you, top of representation?

• Speaker #0

  I would say it's the respect that we know what we're doing. And it's not just on construction. I think it's a societal impression that is made on women that we're not capable or qualified if we're not outright and pushing our way through. We manage things differently. We've got better. empathy. We've got different ways to manage teams, but it doesn't mean that we're any less qualified because we're not shouting and throwing our fist on the table. And understanding that, you know, for my male counterparts out there to respect the knowledge and the experience that your female counterparts have. And even though somebody will come up to you and reiterate the same question that I may have answered, I think it's important for the men that are allies and advocates to add to my response instead of take away and just say, you know, this is how it should be. And I talk about that in my book because I don't want to limit the exposure on what I write in the book just to women. I open it up for male allies and advocates to read it as well and just say, hey, how does this woman on my team feel about this? And start to really change their leadership and management style so it's not a blanket effort for all women. Like, okay, well, if I just treat them all the same and I go and solve everyone's problems, then all the women will be fine, right? No. Take a look at every individual woman, even hell, your men and women are all individuals on your team. Treat them as such, respect them for what they know, answer their questions, entertain the curiosity. And that's how you can really improve that dynamic in the culture.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. I've heard some stories of just interactions in the field. And it's like, as if the men, they feel threat. There's like this threat fear. It's like, oh, they're going to take my job or whatever. And it's like, no. Well, maybe, but...

• Speaker #0

  I've told several women that I've had conversations with the same thing. Whatever hill that you want to die battling on, right? If somebody makes a crude comment or they're disrespectful, do you want to sit there and fight through and die on that specific argument? Or is it something that'll roll off and you can have a serious conversation about it later? To this day, after my experience, after all those badass projects that I've been on, I had a male leader come up to me and ask me if my contractor is feeding me all the information that I know. I've had somebody on my team ask me if my husband helps me with my job. It's having those conversations like, no, I know what I'm doing. I'm involved in my project. Of course, I know what I'm doing. My husband's in a completely different company. doing a completely different thing. He's not whispering in my ear all day long, trying to solve my problems. I'm doing the damn work.

• Speaker #1

  Like a big, like, what the fuck? Well, going back to the, how do you respond, right? The thing that I've learned that I think is huge, it's way easier said than done, is just the fact that you have control of how you feel. And you have control of responding, even though at moments it seems like you don't. But like in reality, you can take a step back and be like, hmm, it seems like it might be this person who's having a problem and it's not me. Yeah. But that's way easier said than done. But like knowing that at the end of the day, shit can be happening and it can be kind of crazy and it might be bad or somebody's yelling or whatever. But I can control how I feel. I can. If you've never been like taught that or like you haven't had those moments, you have no idea. You're just going to be like, you're just so in it.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And you'll snap back if somebody starts yelling at you. And I've had, you know, that messy past that I've dealt through worse shit in my life where, you know, a superintendent slamming shit on my desk and yelling at me is like a little flicker in the sunshine. Like it's not going to freeze me because all the other stuff that I had to live through and figure out growing up. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I mean, yeah, you've got the thick skin. Wow. Oh, there's just, yeah. a lot here. Okay. Well, going back to just women in particular in construction, I mean, what skills or qualities, a woman is listening to this and they're interested in the industry. Like what do you think skills or qualities, I guess this can go to anybody, not just male or female or whatever gender you identify with, but like what are the skill sets that you think allow you to succeed in the industry?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Men or women. It's just your curiosity, your drive. If you're willing to learn, make mistakes, and understand your role. My colleagues and myself, we don't like the people that are there to collect a paycheck, clock in, get paid, when's my vacation time, can I work from home 95% of the time. There's all those things that people feel entitled to. But when we start to see anybody that has some drive, whatever they're doing, I'll go to restaurants and bars and I'll see people that know their job inside and out. and I think to myself like, oh, we should, we could use them. Like, you know, they're, they're hungry for the knowledge. They're hungry to succeed in whatever role they're in. And it's important to take away, like, you don't have to. know or understand every aspect of construction to enter the industry. Think about all the teams that you may have been on, fast-paced environments, working with a team, working on your feet. There's so many different things that can aid into your transition into the construction industry for men and women. And being humble and accepting that you're going to enter in and not know everything. And lean on those people for advice. and continue to invest in yourself to learn and grow.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. What do you think soft skills are brought up a lot? What is the strongest soft skill you think you need to have developed?

• Speaker #0

  I think shying away from conversations is a big one. Don't be afraid to talk to that big burly superintendent or that mean looking subcontractor. It's something that you've got to shake. And the only way that you're going to shake it is just by doing it, just walk up to them, shake their hand. They're going to be just like you and I. They're going to be, you know, they might be a little rougher around the edges, but just make that step and get out of your comfort zone. And I think that's the best way to build that trade up.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Obviously, storytelling is super important to the work that you're doing with your organization. Your story is incredibly sticky. Like you have an incredible story. But is there a story? I know you don't want to talk to you about yourself in this one, but is there a story of... Anyone that you've talked to within your community, it could be a story that you've amplified where just like, wow, that just like is incredible or could be a success story or it's the whole like it reminds you of like why you're doing what you're doing.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it's every story, honestly. And I know that's like a cop out answer, but every story has its own thrill to understand and hear from these different women. Leticia is one that's with the local sheet metal union and you know she's younger than me she's getting her experience through the years in her trade but then she's also mentoring on her own and she's got the weld her workshop that she started with her friend to introduce women to welding there's elena who's a plumber and she turned her life around by getting into the trade learning the trade and you know making making the six figures after she was maybe five or six years into the industry. It's all of those stories just wrapped into these conversations that inspire me to keep doing what I'm doing. And it's tough sometimes to get women to open up about their stories. Again, I was one of them, like, until I started the organization. And it's because we see those top-down people, those influential people that are in C-suite positions or at the top of their game, and we're just like, I'm not there yet. I can't share my story. Give me a couple of years until I get to that next position or that next job. And then maybe I'll share. And I think it's just important that we share now. And we share with the people around us, even if we don't go on any social platform or anything else. It could just be with the team members and people around you.

• Speaker #1

  With then that in mind, if there was something you wanted to say to industry, give you a minute and you wanted to. tell industry like your two cents, like what should happen? Like, what would you say?

• Speaker #0

  I'd say respect your colleagues, respect the people that have been in it longer than you have and keep learning and growing. Don't fall into the trap that, you know, everything and everyone around you is stupid because there's always more, more things to learn about your trade, about the industry and about continuing the business. I would just say share your story. Again, it doesn't matter about who you're sharing it with, but somebody is going to be able to connect with that message. They may have that same upbringing. They may be fighting the same racial inequity or hardships that you've fought. And the only way that you can inspire and uplift people in those positions is if they hear about it and find a way to mentor. It can be completely informal. Just find a way to talk and reach out to somebody. and support them in whatever they're going through. Lend an ear to have those conversations so that they feel appreciated and you don't lose people on your team because they won't feel like they're being acknowledged.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Thank you, Renee. I'm so honored to talk to you and you have an incredible story. One of my last questions for you, and I don't think I prepped you for this. If you had the single person I talked to, if there's a person that In your lifetime so far that you'd like to thank for where you are today, who would that be? And it can be more than one person.

• Speaker #0

  Oh God, there's a lot, you know, spanning back over the course of my career. There's Tammy, Tracy, he, young Molly, Jerry, James, Noel, you know, the list just keeps going on and on, like from all those professionally and engineers that were women that were around me at that first role to the superintendents and, and folks that were on the jobs with me through the years on. every single one of them have contributed in some way to my growth and my development.

• Speaker #1

  Well, hopefully you can take a snippet of this. You can send it to them.

• Speaker #0

  Because I'm sure there's like hundreds of them I missed.

• Speaker #1

  That's awesome. Well, Renee, thank you so much for coming on. Huge fan. I'm going to continue to be a huge fan of yours. And if people want to learn more about your organization and what you're doing. It's build- Her.org. Correct? Am I correct? Yeah. And then yeah, follow Renee and her organization on social and follow the stories that she's telling by her book. And we'll include all of this stuff in the notes for this show and you're skilled AF and proud of you and you got to keep going. So thank you for inspiring other people and other women and for doing so much for the industry.

• Speaker #0

  Thanks for having me. It was great chatting with you.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you so much for tuning into this episode of the skilled AF podcast. If you enjoyed it, please rate, review, subscribe to it, wherever you're listening. And if you want to stay connected, partner, you name it, head over to the skilled project.com or follow us on social media at the skilled project until next time. Stay skilled AF.