Table 414 | Table 414 S1E1 — A Conversation with Chris Shipley

Description

Chris Shipley has probably looked at more innovations and products than almost anybody in Silicon Valley … and met many innovators in the process. That’s because she ran Demo, THE top tech conference for new products for many, many years. And to do her job, she evaluated some 2000 new products each year so as to pick out the 60 she considered most interesting. She knows a thing or two about innovation and she’s glad to share her experience with us!

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Transcription

Speaker #0
Hi, I'm Alan Davidson. Welcome to Table 414. This is a comfortable place to talk about curiosity, innovators, and their innovations. And talented innovators aren't just in tech. They're all over politics, industry, education, cooking, even arts to fashion and tech. They all share something in common, and they all asked, what if? And the answer eventually becomes a successful innovation. It can teach us a lot when we talk to them, if we can get them to share practical experience and secrets. And that's my goal. My guest today is Chris Shipley. She's fascinating. And she's got more experience than almost anybody in understanding what makes successful innovators and innovations. I think you'll agree that what she says has practical applicability to you and to the things you want to create. You may have questions and comments after listening to Chris. Then just email us at comments at table414.co. One last and important thing. If you enjoy this conversation, the best way to let us and our supporters know is by subscribing, recommending us to friends, and posting. even a like or review by you would be wonderful and help get the word out. Let me share a quick word about Women in Tech Global, because they helped make this podcast possible. Their annual summit is in Paris on May 6th and 7th under the patronage of French President Emmanuel Macron. There'll be over 70 top speakers, lots of cool activities, and great networking. With nearly a quarter million members in less than six years, they're amazing, dedicated people. So network, learn, and enjoy Paris at the best time of the year. One of my first guests had to be Chris Shipley. Chris is an old friend, and she has a really impressive history. And I hope she won't be too embarrassed by all the nice things I say about her. But they're all true. She was involved in publishing, in technology, in venture capital. And above all, she ran one of the most prominent and impressive shows in technology focused on innovation. It was... for many, many, many years, the leading show to recognize new innovations, new ideas, and give those innovators the opportunity to become well-known and give them a takeoff spot to a better way for their technology to become known. So welcome, Chris, and thank you for joining us on Table 414. It really is special to have you here today.
Speaker #1
That's just great. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker #0
So let me just quickly tell you how I know Chris. We met 35 years ago. We were both involved with some of the top computer magazines. Now, you've got to realize that back in 1989 when we met, there wasn't even a useful laptop. That was two years off. There was no connectivity even for desktop computers at that time. Today, everything is available digital. That was unimaginable when Chris and I met. And she was part of the revolution of getting that known and making people aware of it. And then you recognized when things changed from being technology to a lifestyle, didn't you? Because that's how you started a magazine about lifestyle.
Speaker #1
Yeah, well, my early part of my career was very much focused on technology for business. And so the PC Week, one of the first newspapers that was covering the industry, as much investigative journalism as product journalism. And then from there to PC computing, spent some time building some of the very early online services that folks probably don't even remember anymore, but Prodigy and CompuServe and the like, early AOL. And then we thought, this is not just about business anymore. This technology is seeping into our homes, into our everyday lives. And with SIF Davis launched a publication called Computer Life. And it was really about how do these technologies impact us in our everyday lives, makes our lives better, may give us more entertainment, allow us to connect and communicate more freely. You talk about when we first met, we didn't have a mobile phone. And now that is all real.
Speaker #0
When we launched our radio show. For consumers, that was a whole new idea. It was absolutely innovative. And we needed sponsorship. We were going to get it on national radio. But I remember calling up in 1990 to Procter Gamble. now Procter Gamble was the biggest consumer products company in the world and when I contacted them eventually I got hold of the guy who was responsible and explained to him what we were doing or started to explain and can you believe that the guy listened to me and I got to we're creating a consumer a radio show about computers for consumers at that point he just cut me off and he said consumers computers are you crazy and he hung up on me you That's how different the world was. And we ended up having ringside seats on so much of what happened after that, you and I, and Jan, my wife, who created the radio show together with me. And we met all the amazing people. So, yeah, we all met Gates, and we knew the Google guys later, and we met Jobs, and we met Jeff Bezos. and so many of these folks. But then there were the people that are less known, people like Nolan Bushnell, who created the first video game, Pong, and founded Atari. People like Stepan Pachikov, who created Tetris. Marc Andreessen, who created the World Wide Web. And even crazy early hackers like Captain Crunch. Do you remember Captain Crunch?
Speaker #1
Exactly. I think that you make a really good point, though. First, I'm going to say, yes, we're incredibly fortunate that we got these ringside seats and have been able to watch this industry over 30, 40 years. I think we also, and I want to give you credit for this, you have a lot of great instincts about what is going to be important. Not just technology for its own sake, but technology at the intersection with humanity. What will these technologies do to improve our lives, to change our lives, sometimes to impact our lives in ways that are wonderfully positive. And we thought that very much 20 years ago when we first started talking about social media, for example. June will mark the 20th anniversary of the first social media conference that I did at Berkeley. Looking back over 20 years, yes, a lot of good and a lot of impact, but also a lot of dangers that we didn't foresee. The technologies are relatively the same and I always think technology isn't... isn't good or bad. It's how it gets applied. But all those innovations are innovations that come from people looking at these tools, people looking at technology and saying, how can we use them? How will they impact us? How can they make our lives better in some fashion? And that's, I think, at the crux of innovation are all the people really unknown to history that ask that question.
Speaker #0
I think you've hit on something because that was part of the fundamental thing that we insights in doing the radio show when Jan and I were thinking about it and creating it. It's the idea that technology is great, but it's only relevant in the way you can use it. Does it let you get in contact with family? Does it let you get a better job if you change jobs? Does it give you some way to follow up a hobby, do research, all those kinds of things? That's where the real value lies. Not only did it let us create the radio show, we've done over 8,600 shows that have aired. It's just unbelievable. We never believed that. And it let us create patented software that Google later bought from us. It let us create a marketing firm that served some of the world's biggest corporations using technology to create systems that made it possible. It even let us create a series of children's books that we could publish and do everything ourselves. We could just go out and do it. and tell me then, what got you interested in technology? Because technology was really, when you come into it, not that big a thing for women.
Speaker #1
But it was just kind of interesting to me. And so my turn toward technology really was on that path. When it came down to my job offers, I chose PC Week because Ziff Davis was this massive consumer publishing house at the time. I thought, well, you know, I'll start here at this computer publication. Maybe I can work my way into some of the really interesting stuff. By that time, I thought, these computers are kind of interesting. And for me, interesting, not in the bits and bytes level, not in the engineering, although I... I came to understand a lot of that. But really, again, on the intersection of the technology and humanity, how were these pieces of hardware and software changing the way business was being done, affecting bottom lines, expanding new marketplaces, enabling individuals to start new businesses and be more successful or be as competitive with many of the big companies? And so that sense of technology as a leveler became very interesting to me.
Speaker #0
As time went on. You changed horses completely. You went into a whole new career, which was demo. You took it over and you ran it for many years. So tell me briefly, how did demo work and why it was the venue for launching any new product? if Chris Shipley selected you, if you could get on the stage a demo, you really had a shot at making it. So how did that happen?
Speaker #1
I give all credit to Stuart Alsop. He ran a conference for many years called Agenda that brought the CEOs of all the leading technology companies together. these technology folks were showing each other what they were working on. And so demo was really born out of that. When I took it over just after 1996, 1997 was my first year, the web was taking hold and people were beginning to talk a lot more to one another. And it was then that I decided, well, then it needs to be just the brand new stuff. And so it was the launch event for 60, 70 products every year. And what I tried to do, it was looking at as much as I could. I probably talked to, some estimates were 2,000 companies a year, to understand what they were working on and to see the patterns that were emerging as different people approached market challenges differently. And then I would kind of like, what were the outliers? What were the really strange things? that nobody was doing. I wanted those things to be on stage. And then what were the things that were, were approaching an idea or a problem in a new way? And let's put those together on stage and kind of tell the story I hoped of where the marketplace was going based on these six minute live product demos on stage, but place in a way that told a story about the industry and what was unfolding. And, and I think they do. And I look back. In 1997, there was a company called Hot Office. And this company developed a product, admittedly kind of clunky, that put word processor spreadsheet database all accessible on the web. And I showed this product, had this product introduced on stage, and they did their demonstration. And a gentleman, I think, might have worked at IBM at the time, he came up to me that afternoon and said, I don't know why you bothered with that. This is ridiculous. No one is ever going to use the web to run software. That's just not going to happen. And I said, you know, I don't know. I think there's something to it. I think something could happen here. Oh, it's never going to happen. He grumped off. Well, the next year, Salesforce.com was introduced on the stage at demo. And we know that that was the company, Mark Benioff, who had his big badges. This was the end of software. This is how all products are going to be delivered in the future. And there were still a lot of naysayers. But there was like, you know, you might have been right about this. This web thing is changing how we. do business computing and ultimately consumer computing. And so those are kinds of trend lines we got to see. You and I were talking about Zoom and how we now all use Zoom because that's just the way we get to connect in a world that is now global. And we were remembering that it was in 1997 that WebEx, the first widely usable video conferencing, web-based video conferencing, was introduced at Demo. So there are a lot of through lines from those events and what they were then. how that technology has evolved over 20 years is remarkable.
Speaker #0
Our friends at Women in Tech Global helped make this podcast a reality. I'm a big fan. With over 200,000 active members in less than six years, it's growing fast and it deserves its success. They were founded to actively create opportunities for women around the world. Their tireless energy and dedication to the mission has consistently impressed me, and above all, they focus on local needs and skills. I'm proud to support their efforts around the globe. Visit them at wit-h.com and join today. And remember, their summit is in Paris on May 6th and 7th. That demo was when I saw for the first time voices over the internet and video on consumer computers. I'm just going to tell a little story because I think it tells you a lot about what demo meant to the entire industry, what you were doing. When Jan and I got married in 1999, we got married in London and it was wonderful. Then we had our honeymoon. And differently from where most other people do their honeymoon, we flew directly from our wedding in London to Demo. And we spent our honeymoon at Demo. And we loved it. It was just that rewarding and such a great crowd. And you learn so much. So eventually you left demo and then I think you did a bunch of other things, consulting, VC work, education, authored books. And I think all of that has given you the opportunity to think a lot about innovation and what makes some people valuable. and their curiosity become innovators. I mean, what kind of things did you look at to decide what could work, whether it was innovative enough? And did you ever say, oh my gosh, this will change the world?
Speaker #1
In some cases, I certainly thought that some of the products and technologies I've seen over the last 30 or 40 years were true game changers. a simple example in it. When the first DVRs were introduced, that was a technology that I knew had this real game-changing, market-changing potential that ultimately bore out to be true. So TiVo and other products that now are just built into your cable set-top box really changed the way we consume television as consumers, and they changed the way television broadcast media was supported. because it effectively undermined the ad business. Now, on the other hand, there was a product demo. when Philippe Kahn showed the ability to capture an image on his phone and then send it via text. If we think about how many millions and millions of photos are sent over text every day now, I missed the true impact that that would have. I thought it would be an interesting visual note-taking capability. Like I said, there's a lot of things that you may not know at the time are going to be as disruptive or impactful as they become. But again, as people sit back and think, well, what can I do with this new tool? How can I do something different? That's where that innovation juice starts rolling and people see these technologies and start to apply them. in ways that may not have even been envisioned by the original inventors.
Speaker #0
Well, that is, I think, one of the things that I've always found fascinating, is how one idea brings another and another and another. And I guess that's been one of the strengths of Silicon Valley and something that's spread now around the world, hasn't it?
Speaker #1
Yeah, there's a quote that I love, and I'll probably slightly misquote it, but innovation is imagining what could be unconstrained by what is. And I think that's, I love that idea. How might I change this situation? What can I use or do or leverage to make something better or different and imagine a new world? And I think the best innovators, they're not constrained by what is, but they are constrained by the limitations of what is. It's a belief that anything can be possible. And yet recognizing, and I think this is where some of the most profound innovations come from, there are constraints. I don't have enough time. I don't have enough money. I don't have enough. satisfaction, whatever you don't have enough of causes you to push beyond that limit to go create something new. So I think that innovation requires constraint of resource and freedom of imagination to think about what could the world look like if these limitations were not in place.
Speaker #0
It's a fascinating quote. And what makes innovators see new solutions? What's different about them?
Speaker #1
Yeah, well, I think so much of the process of innovating is, it's not particularly transparent, right? You're not sort of the set of, if you do these steps, you will be a successful innovator, right? 40% of what innovation is, is pretty obvious, you know, the discipline of execution. But the other 60% is... something else. And it's not, it's not tangible. You know, it's curiosity. It's persistence. It's the openness to risk. It's the vulnerability of your ideas and of accepting ideas from other people. It's all of these things that we don't teach, maybe can't teach in business schools or in engineering classes, but are this. the DNA of an organization or the culture of an organization that makes them more open to innovating because they are open to risk. And so they can fail and look at that as, okay, that didn't work. Now, what did we learn from it? Now, what's the next experiment and the next? So there's this resilience and persistence that is in, I think, the best innovators because they're just not willing to take no for an answer. You know, the willingness to be open to ideas coming from anywhere. It's that I look around me, I see the world around me, and I'm willing to recognize that a great concept might come from anywhere. It could come from my head, or it might come from watching toddlers playing a part. you know, who knows? And so that's another, I think, unique indicator of some of the best innovators.
Speaker #0
Having seen thousands and thousands and thousands of people coming to you with ideas and pitching them products, if you don't see any clear predictors other than the courage to face up to, think this didn't work, let me try a different way and let me listen to all the world around me. The persistence and the ability to be open, to listen, and take the stimuli and ideas from wherever they come and judge them on their merits, that is a big key.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I think those things are true. There's also a pragmatism, right? I think that innovation, I always think it's to a purpose, right? Why am I doing this? And I think that you also need to be focused on what you are trying to achieve. And I think that the folks that are able to take and bring product to market, that then can be market changing, that can be disruptive to the way things always have been. are folks who have a very clear vision of what they're trying to accomplish. I know lots of really wonderfully creative people, very sharp engineers and brilliant designers who are just a little bit too much like that puppy in the park with all the squirrels. It's like, there's one, there's one, and they're jumping from thing to thing because it's fascinating. And I say that because I'm kind of like that. But the people who are really time after time Delivering strong innovation into the marketplace are people who say, I see this thing, this need, this opportunity, and I'm going to just keep hammering at it until I get it. I'm going to stay focused on what I know in my heart is true, what I know in my vision is true. I'm going to do all the right product market fit and engineering and all of that that we know is right and necessary to productize innovation, but that they are staying focused on what it is they're trying to achieve. And so what I realize as I say this out loud is that Maybe real innovations are just this enigma, right? Because they are wide open and yet focused. They are risk adverse or constrained and therefore need to break the constraints. But also it's those constraints that cause them to think differently. And I think there are lots of these dualities that make really consistently innovative, very creative people. It's the thing that drives them.
Speaker #0
I think that was always fascinating about Steve Jobs. Because once Steve came back to Apple. and started rebuilding it. And he became ill, and he still fought on. I mean, I remember seeing Steve at D, and not long before he was dying, he died. And even as weak as he was, and what people don't know is he had to be flown in, he came in on a wheelchair, he had to have oxygen, and then he came out on stage full of energy, bouncing. and then he went off stage and he had to go straight back on oxygen, get back in a wheelchair and so on. But he was going to change the world until his last day. That's not money. He didn't need a penny of that money. But he did change the world many times over.
Speaker #1
Yeah, he's a remarkable man. I always think there's Steve 1.0, which was the early Macintosh Steve, very much driven by wanting to create a product that would change the world, I suppose, but driven by his own vision of that thing. Then there was Steve, let's call it Steve 2.0, which was the period of time after he was fired from Apple, but before he returned. And then Steve 3.0, where I think all of these, you know, his lessons in his life kind of came together in a way that made him, that released his creativity in a much more positive way. And his impact is on the entertainment industry, on the personal computing industry, on the music industry. technology industry is just hard to measure. But it was certainly that persistence of, I just want to keep doing it. I want to keep making that impact. He was a rare individual, for sure.
Speaker #0
These are people that keep looking and looking to do, to make things work and to exceed themselves. and to make their dream or their ambition come through. Sometimes it can be very creative. Sometimes it can be pretty destructive too. But without it, it's very hard to see how the innovation can come to be, can it? Isn't it?
Speaker #1
But I think this process of creating for purpose, maybe it's creating on purpose that we call innovation, is... You know, it's not magic, it's not easy, but it's also not insurmountably difficult. It's a matter of looking at the world and looking at needs, looking at opportunities, and looking at them differently from other folk. I think that some folks will look at an obstacle and think, well, that's it, I'm done. Can't get around that boulder, so I guess I have to go home. where somebody with a more of an innovator mindset says, okay, that's the obstacle. What are the opportunities here? Do we break it into small pieces? Do we climb over it? Do we go around it? And going around it, do we discover something new and even better? And stay open. So I think innovation, it's kind of like breathing in a lot of ways. If you believe that. everything in front of you is a potential opportunity. If you just keep exploring and learning, it's a mindset.
Speaker #0
When we started back in the industry, there were some women, but there weren't that many. And over time, somehow the percentage of women and other minorities has remained small. Do you see that changing? And how can one help shift that? Are there steps that should be taken that can be taken?
Speaker #1
probably 1994, 5, 6, in that timeframe, the number was something shy of, it was definitely shy of 4%, but I think it was even less, like 2% of all venture-backed businesses had a female founder or co-founder. Now, fast forward 30 years, and the number of venture-backed companies with female founders or co-founders is still about 4%, that we haven't moved the needle. So what is it? And I think, in part, when investors are largely... men, pattern matching that they claim is a foundation of their golden gut as investors. So I think that's one factor. I think a second factor is you look at who controls the money. And the money largely is controlled in large pension funds and by limited partners who are, again, older white guys. Now here's a spot of hopefulness. There are some trillions of dollars that are about to be transferred from the men to their wives who will now have the estates of their husbands to think about investing, and they will invest it differently. There's also that sort of a second transfer of wealth to Gen X, Millennials, maybe even to Gen Y, of older boomers who are retiring and dying. That's putting money in the hands of really different people. And so I suspect with changing attitudes, with changing ownership and intention, we will begin to see some things change.
Speaker #0
Let's talk just a moment about things you're doing now, which is you just did a course about AI, and you feel strongly, I think, AI has a lot to offer, but you've got to be aware of what it can do, what it can't do, and realistically assess the impact that it will have on you. So what do you think? And what does your course talk about?
Speaker #1
I did this course for LinkedIn Learning called Career Agility in the Age of AI. And the reason that I was interested in doing it was more about the agility than the AI.
Speaker #0
AI is going to affect so many parts of our business and our lives. Change is happening so quickly that it's not going to slow down. And so you can be very fearful on the potential for its negative impacts, or you can think about, so how can I come to an understanding of this change in such a way that I can be adaptive and agile in my career, in my life? And so the... The purpose of the course for me was to address the anxiety and give some practical tips for just getting familiar with AI and its potential so that when it begins to affect you in your work, when some business manager comes in and says, you know what, we're going to replace our call center with AI bots, you can be the one who says, that's a really interesting idea. And have you considered these other things? And how might we... augment rather than replace. Or you can be part of the conversation because you've taken the initiative to learn. And that was really the point of the course. But I think it's the lesson of life generally, right? We are in this very fast moving place. It's unclear where AI will go, but it's certainly obvious that we aren't even close to reaching its potential. And I think that what we can do to put ourselves in the best possible place to embrace AI for good is to really double down on being human. AI is going to be really good at a lot of things. And it's actually pretty good right now at faking human emotion and human speech and human, you know, the deep fakes that are fooling people all across the internet. That's still not a very good human being. But we're all pretty good human beings. We're really good at being creative and curious and questioning and critical and really thinking about things in deep and hard ways. And I think if we double down on that, on our learning, our creativity, our adaptability, then AI becomes another tool in your toolbox to make your way through life. So let's double down on humanity because I think that's where we...
Speaker #1
That's a pretty positive note to end the conversation on. But what's a good URL to be able to see what you're doing and maybe take the course?
Speaker #0
Well, thank you for that. LinkedIn is probably the closest place or the easiest place to find me and connect. And please, if you do, reach out and I'd be happy to follow you back or connect with folks and continue this conversation there. Some of the background of my work is available at cshipley.com. I love a good conversation and I welcome others to join into the discussions.
Speaker #2
I hope you enjoyed meeting Chris Shipley. I love her quote about how innovation is imagining what could be, unconstrained by what exists. I think she's really captured what separates true innovators from everybody else. If you have questions and comments for Chris, or suggestions for future guests and shows, email us at comments at table414.co. Let us and our supporters know you enjoyed Table 414 by subscribing, recommending us to friends, and posting. Even a like or review is wonderful, and it helps get the word out. And for now, bye-bye, and see you next week.

Description

Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Hi, I'm Alan Davidson. Welcome to Table 414. This is a comfortable place to talk about curiosity, innovators, and their innovations. And talented innovators aren't just in tech. They're all over politics, industry, education, cooking, even arts to fashion and tech. They all share something in common, and they all asked, what if? And the answer eventually becomes a successful innovation. It can teach us a lot when we talk to them, if we can get them to share practical experience and secrets. And that's my goal. My guest today is Chris Shipley. She's fascinating. And she's got more experience than almost anybody in understanding what makes successful innovators and innovations. I think you'll agree that what she says has practical applicability to you and to the things you want to create. You may have questions and comments after listening to Chris. Then just email us at comments at table414.co. One last and important thing. If you enjoy this conversation, the best way to let us and our supporters know is by subscribing, recommending us to friends, and posting. even a like or review by you would be wonderful and help get the word out. Let me share a quick word about Women in Tech Global, because they helped make this podcast possible. Their annual summit is in Paris on May 6th and 7th under the patronage of French President Emmanuel Macron. There'll be over 70 top speakers, lots of cool activities, and great networking. With nearly a quarter million members in less than six years, they're amazing, dedicated people. So network, learn, and enjoy Paris at the best time of the year. One of my first guests had to be Chris Shipley. Chris is an old friend, and she has a really impressive history. And I hope she won't be too embarrassed by all the nice things I say about her. But they're all true. She was involved in publishing, in technology, in venture capital. And above all, she ran one of the most prominent and impressive shows in technology focused on innovation. It was... for many, many, many years, the leading show to recognize new innovations, new ideas, and give those innovators the opportunity to become well-known and give them a takeoff spot to a better way for their technology to become known. So welcome, Chris, and thank you for joining us on Table 414. It really is special to have you here today.
Speaker #1
That's just great. Thank you for inviting me.
Speaker #0
So let me just quickly tell you how I know Chris. We met 35 years ago. We were both involved with some of the top computer magazines. Now, you've got to realize that back in 1989 when we met, there wasn't even a useful laptop. That was two years off. There was no connectivity even for desktop computers at that time. Today, everything is available digital. That was unimaginable when Chris and I met. And she was part of the revolution of getting that known and making people aware of it. And then you recognized when things changed from being technology to a lifestyle, didn't you? Because that's how you started a magazine about lifestyle.
Speaker #1
Yeah, well, my early part of my career was very much focused on technology for business. And so the PC Week, one of the first newspapers that was covering the industry, as much investigative journalism as product journalism. And then from there to PC computing, spent some time building some of the very early online services that folks probably don't even remember anymore, but Prodigy and CompuServe and the like, early AOL. And then we thought, this is not just about business anymore. This technology is seeping into our homes, into our everyday lives. And with SIF Davis launched a publication called Computer Life. And it was really about how do these technologies impact us in our everyday lives, makes our lives better, may give us more entertainment, allow us to connect and communicate more freely. You talk about when we first met, we didn't have a mobile phone. And now that is all real.
Speaker #0
When we launched our radio show. For consumers, that was a whole new idea. It was absolutely innovative. And we needed sponsorship. We were going to get it on national radio. But I remember calling up in 1990 to Procter Gamble. now Procter Gamble was the biggest consumer products company in the world and when I contacted them eventually I got hold of the guy who was responsible and explained to him what we were doing or started to explain and can you believe that the guy listened to me and I got to we're creating a consumer a radio show about computers for consumers at that point he just cut me off and he said consumers computers are you crazy and he hung up on me you That's how different the world was. And we ended up having ringside seats on so much of what happened after that, you and I, and Jan, my wife, who created the radio show together with me. And we met all the amazing people. So, yeah, we all met Gates, and we knew the Google guys later, and we met Jobs, and we met Jeff Bezos. and so many of these folks. But then there were the people that are less known, people like Nolan Bushnell, who created the first video game, Pong, and founded Atari. People like Stepan Pachikov, who created Tetris. Marc Andreessen, who created the World Wide Web. And even crazy early hackers like Captain Crunch. Do you remember Captain Crunch?
Speaker #1
Exactly. I think that you make a really good point, though. First, I'm going to say, yes, we're incredibly fortunate that we got these ringside seats and have been able to watch this industry over 30, 40 years. I think we also, and I want to give you credit for this, you have a lot of great instincts about what is going to be important. Not just technology for its own sake, but technology at the intersection with humanity. What will these technologies do to improve our lives, to change our lives, sometimes to impact our lives in ways that are wonderfully positive. And we thought that very much 20 years ago when we first started talking about social media, for example. June will mark the 20th anniversary of the first social media conference that I did at Berkeley. Looking back over 20 years, yes, a lot of good and a lot of impact, but also a lot of dangers that we didn't foresee. The technologies are relatively the same and I always think technology isn't... isn't good or bad. It's how it gets applied. But all those innovations are innovations that come from people looking at these tools, people looking at technology and saying, how can we use them? How will they impact us? How can they make our lives better in some fashion? And that's, I think, at the crux of innovation are all the people really unknown to history that ask that question.
Speaker #0
I think you've hit on something because that was part of the fundamental thing that we insights in doing the radio show when Jan and I were thinking about it and creating it. It's the idea that technology is great, but it's only relevant in the way you can use it. Does it let you get in contact with family? Does it let you get a better job if you change jobs? Does it give you some way to follow up a hobby, do research, all those kinds of things? That's where the real value lies. Not only did it let us create the radio show, we've done over 8,600 shows that have aired. It's just unbelievable. We never believed that. And it let us create patented software that Google later bought from us. It let us create a marketing firm that served some of the world's biggest corporations using technology to create systems that made it possible. It even let us create a series of children's books that we could publish and do everything ourselves. We could just go out and do it. and tell me then, what got you interested in technology? Because technology was really, when you come into it, not that big a thing for women.
Speaker #1
But it was just kind of interesting to me. And so my turn toward technology really was on that path. When it came down to my job offers, I chose PC Week because Ziff Davis was this massive consumer publishing house at the time. I thought, well, you know, I'll start here at this computer publication. Maybe I can work my way into some of the really interesting stuff. By that time, I thought, these computers are kind of interesting. And for me, interesting, not in the bits and bytes level, not in the engineering, although I... I came to understand a lot of that. But really, again, on the intersection of the technology and humanity, how were these pieces of hardware and software changing the way business was being done, affecting bottom lines, expanding new marketplaces, enabling individuals to start new businesses and be more successful or be as competitive with many of the big companies? And so that sense of technology as a leveler became very interesting to me.
Speaker #0
As time went on. You changed horses completely. You went into a whole new career, which was demo. You took it over and you ran it for many years. So tell me briefly, how did demo work and why it was the venue for launching any new product? if Chris Shipley selected you, if you could get on the stage a demo, you really had a shot at making it. So how did that happen?
Speaker #1
I give all credit to Stuart Alsop. He ran a conference for many years called Agenda that brought the CEOs of all the leading technology companies together. these technology folks were showing each other what they were working on. And so demo was really born out of that. When I took it over just after 1996, 1997 was my first year, the web was taking hold and people were beginning to talk a lot more to one another. And it was then that I decided, well, then it needs to be just the brand new stuff. And so it was the launch event for 60, 70 products every year. And what I tried to do, it was looking at as much as I could. I probably talked to, some estimates were 2,000 companies a year, to understand what they were working on and to see the patterns that were emerging as different people approached market challenges differently. And then I would kind of like, what were the outliers? What were the really strange things? that nobody was doing. I wanted those things to be on stage. And then what were the things that were, were approaching an idea or a problem in a new way? And let's put those together on stage and kind of tell the story I hoped of where the marketplace was going based on these six minute live product demos on stage, but place in a way that told a story about the industry and what was unfolding. And, and I think they do. And I look back. In 1997, there was a company called Hot Office. And this company developed a product, admittedly kind of clunky, that put word processor spreadsheet database all accessible on the web. And I showed this product, had this product introduced on stage, and they did their demonstration. And a gentleman, I think, might have worked at IBM at the time, he came up to me that afternoon and said, I don't know why you bothered with that. This is ridiculous. No one is ever going to use the web to run software. That's just not going to happen. And I said, you know, I don't know. I think there's something to it. I think something could happen here. Oh, it's never going to happen. He grumped off. Well, the next year, Salesforce.com was introduced on the stage at demo. And we know that that was the company, Mark Benioff, who had his big badges. This was the end of software. This is how all products are going to be delivered in the future. And there were still a lot of naysayers. But there was like, you know, you might have been right about this. This web thing is changing how we. do business computing and ultimately consumer computing. And so those are kinds of trend lines we got to see. You and I were talking about Zoom and how we now all use Zoom because that's just the way we get to connect in a world that is now global. And we were remembering that it was in 1997 that WebEx, the first widely usable video conferencing, web-based video conferencing, was introduced at Demo. So there are a lot of through lines from those events and what they were then. how that technology has evolved over 20 years is remarkable.
Speaker #0
Our friends at Women in Tech Global helped make this podcast a reality. I'm a big fan. With over 200,000 active members in less than six years, it's growing fast and it deserves its success. They were founded to actively create opportunities for women around the world. Their tireless energy and dedication to the mission has consistently impressed me, and above all, they focus on local needs and skills. I'm proud to support their efforts around the globe. Visit them at wit-h.com and join today. And remember, their summit is in Paris on May 6th and 7th. That demo was when I saw for the first time voices over the internet and video on consumer computers. I'm just going to tell a little story because I think it tells you a lot about what demo meant to the entire industry, what you were doing. When Jan and I got married in 1999, we got married in London and it was wonderful. Then we had our honeymoon. And differently from where most other people do their honeymoon, we flew directly from our wedding in London to Demo. And we spent our honeymoon at Demo. And we loved it. It was just that rewarding and such a great crowd. And you learn so much. So eventually you left demo and then I think you did a bunch of other things, consulting, VC work, education, authored books. And I think all of that has given you the opportunity to think a lot about innovation and what makes some people valuable. and their curiosity become innovators. I mean, what kind of things did you look at to decide what could work, whether it was innovative enough? And did you ever say, oh my gosh, this will change the world?
Speaker #1
In some cases, I certainly thought that some of the products and technologies I've seen over the last 30 or 40 years were true game changers. a simple example in it. When the first DVRs were introduced, that was a technology that I knew had this real game-changing, market-changing potential that ultimately bore out to be true. So TiVo and other products that now are just built into your cable set-top box really changed the way we consume television as consumers, and they changed the way television broadcast media was supported. because it effectively undermined the ad business. Now, on the other hand, there was a product demo. when Philippe Kahn showed the ability to capture an image on his phone and then send it via text. If we think about how many millions and millions of photos are sent over text every day now, I missed the true impact that that would have. I thought it would be an interesting visual note-taking capability. Like I said, there's a lot of things that you may not know at the time are going to be as disruptive or impactful as they become. But again, as people sit back and think, well, what can I do with this new tool? How can I do something different? That's where that innovation juice starts rolling and people see these technologies and start to apply them. in ways that may not have even been envisioned by the original inventors.
Speaker #0
Well, that is, I think, one of the things that I've always found fascinating, is how one idea brings another and another and another. And I guess that's been one of the strengths of Silicon Valley and something that's spread now around the world, hasn't it?
Speaker #1
Yeah, there's a quote that I love, and I'll probably slightly misquote it, but innovation is imagining what could be unconstrained by what is. And I think that's, I love that idea. How might I change this situation? What can I use or do or leverage to make something better or different and imagine a new world? And I think the best innovators, they're not constrained by what is, but they are constrained by the limitations of what is. It's a belief that anything can be possible. And yet recognizing, and I think this is where some of the most profound innovations come from, there are constraints. I don't have enough time. I don't have enough money. I don't have enough. satisfaction, whatever you don't have enough of causes you to push beyond that limit to go create something new. So I think that innovation requires constraint of resource and freedom of imagination to think about what could the world look like if these limitations were not in place.
Speaker #0
It's a fascinating quote. And what makes innovators see new solutions? What's different about them?
Speaker #1
Yeah, well, I think so much of the process of innovating is, it's not particularly transparent, right? You're not sort of the set of, if you do these steps, you will be a successful innovator, right? 40% of what innovation is, is pretty obvious, you know, the discipline of execution. But the other 60% is... something else. And it's not, it's not tangible. You know, it's curiosity. It's persistence. It's the openness to risk. It's the vulnerability of your ideas and of accepting ideas from other people. It's all of these things that we don't teach, maybe can't teach in business schools or in engineering classes, but are this. the DNA of an organization or the culture of an organization that makes them more open to innovating because they are open to risk. And so they can fail and look at that as, okay, that didn't work. Now, what did we learn from it? Now, what's the next experiment and the next? So there's this resilience and persistence that is in, I think, the best innovators because they're just not willing to take no for an answer. You know, the willingness to be open to ideas coming from anywhere. It's that I look around me, I see the world around me, and I'm willing to recognize that a great concept might come from anywhere. It could come from my head, or it might come from watching toddlers playing a part. you know, who knows? And so that's another, I think, unique indicator of some of the best innovators.
Speaker #0
Having seen thousands and thousands and thousands of people coming to you with ideas and pitching them products, if you don't see any clear predictors other than the courage to face up to, think this didn't work, let me try a different way and let me listen to all the world around me. The persistence and the ability to be open, to listen, and take the stimuli and ideas from wherever they come and judge them on their merits, that is a big key.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I think those things are true. There's also a pragmatism, right? I think that innovation, I always think it's to a purpose, right? Why am I doing this? And I think that you also need to be focused on what you are trying to achieve. And I think that the folks that are able to take and bring product to market, that then can be market changing, that can be disruptive to the way things always have been. are folks who have a very clear vision of what they're trying to accomplish. I know lots of really wonderfully creative people, very sharp engineers and brilliant designers who are just a little bit too much like that puppy in the park with all the squirrels. It's like, there's one, there's one, and they're jumping from thing to thing because it's fascinating. And I say that because I'm kind of like that. But the people who are really time after time Delivering strong innovation into the marketplace are people who say, I see this thing, this need, this opportunity, and I'm going to just keep hammering at it until I get it. I'm going to stay focused on what I know in my heart is true, what I know in my vision is true. I'm going to do all the right product market fit and engineering and all of that that we know is right and necessary to productize innovation, but that they are staying focused on what it is they're trying to achieve. And so what I realize as I say this out loud is that Maybe real innovations are just this enigma, right? Because they are wide open and yet focused. They are risk adverse or constrained and therefore need to break the constraints. But also it's those constraints that cause them to think differently. And I think there are lots of these dualities that make really consistently innovative, very creative people. It's the thing that drives them.
Speaker #0
I think that was always fascinating about Steve Jobs. Because once Steve came back to Apple. and started rebuilding it. And he became ill, and he still fought on. I mean, I remember seeing Steve at D, and not long before he was dying, he died. And even as weak as he was, and what people don't know is he had to be flown in, he came in on a wheelchair, he had to have oxygen, and then he came out on stage full of energy, bouncing. and then he went off stage and he had to go straight back on oxygen, get back in a wheelchair and so on. But he was going to change the world until his last day. That's not money. He didn't need a penny of that money. But he did change the world many times over.
Speaker #1
Yeah, he's a remarkable man. I always think there's Steve 1.0, which was the early Macintosh Steve, very much driven by wanting to create a product that would change the world, I suppose, but driven by his own vision of that thing. Then there was Steve, let's call it Steve 2.0, which was the period of time after he was fired from Apple, but before he returned. And then Steve 3.0, where I think all of these, you know, his lessons in his life kind of came together in a way that made him, that released his creativity in a much more positive way. And his impact is on the entertainment industry, on the personal computing industry, on the music industry. technology industry is just hard to measure. But it was certainly that persistence of, I just want to keep doing it. I want to keep making that impact. He was a rare individual, for sure.
Speaker #0
These are people that keep looking and looking to do, to make things work and to exceed themselves. and to make their dream or their ambition come through. Sometimes it can be very creative. Sometimes it can be pretty destructive too. But without it, it's very hard to see how the innovation can come to be, can it? Isn't it?
Speaker #1
But I think this process of creating for purpose, maybe it's creating on purpose that we call innovation, is... You know, it's not magic, it's not easy, but it's also not insurmountably difficult. It's a matter of looking at the world and looking at needs, looking at opportunities, and looking at them differently from other folk. I think that some folks will look at an obstacle and think, well, that's it, I'm done. Can't get around that boulder, so I guess I have to go home. where somebody with a more of an innovator mindset says, okay, that's the obstacle. What are the opportunities here? Do we break it into small pieces? Do we climb over it? Do we go around it? And going around it, do we discover something new and even better? And stay open. So I think innovation, it's kind of like breathing in a lot of ways. If you believe that. everything in front of you is a potential opportunity. If you just keep exploring and learning, it's a mindset.
Speaker #0
When we started back in the industry, there were some women, but there weren't that many. And over time, somehow the percentage of women and other minorities has remained small. Do you see that changing? And how can one help shift that? Are there steps that should be taken that can be taken?
Speaker #1
probably 1994, 5, 6, in that timeframe, the number was something shy of, it was definitely shy of 4%, but I think it was even less, like 2% of all venture-backed businesses had a female founder or co-founder. Now, fast forward 30 years, and the number of venture-backed companies with female founders or co-founders is still about 4%, that we haven't moved the needle. So what is it? And I think, in part, when investors are largely... men, pattern matching that they claim is a foundation of their golden gut as investors. So I think that's one factor. I think a second factor is you look at who controls the money. And the money largely is controlled in large pension funds and by limited partners who are, again, older white guys. Now here's a spot of hopefulness. There are some trillions of dollars that are about to be transferred from the men to their wives who will now have the estates of their husbands to think about investing, and they will invest it differently. There's also that sort of a second transfer of wealth to Gen X, Millennials, maybe even to Gen Y, of older boomers who are retiring and dying. That's putting money in the hands of really different people. And so I suspect with changing attitudes, with changing ownership and intention, we will begin to see some things change.
Speaker #0
Let's talk just a moment about things you're doing now, which is you just did a course about AI, and you feel strongly, I think, AI has a lot to offer, but you've got to be aware of what it can do, what it can't do, and realistically assess the impact that it will have on you. So what do you think? And what does your course talk about?
Speaker #1
I did this course for LinkedIn Learning called Career Agility in the Age of AI. And the reason that I was interested in doing it was more about the agility than the AI.
Speaker #0
AI is going to affect so many parts of our business and our lives. Change is happening so quickly that it's not going to slow down. And so you can be very fearful on the potential for its negative impacts, or you can think about, so how can I come to an understanding of this change in such a way that I can be adaptive and agile in my career, in my life? And so the... The purpose of the course for me was to address the anxiety and give some practical tips for just getting familiar with AI and its potential so that when it begins to affect you in your work, when some business manager comes in and says, you know what, we're going to replace our call center with AI bots, you can be the one who says, that's a really interesting idea. And have you considered these other things? And how might we... augment rather than replace. Or you can be part of the conversation because you've taken the initiative to learn. And that was really the point of the course. But I think it's the lesson of life generally, right? We are in this very fast moving place. It's unclear where AI will go, but it's certainly obvious that we aren't even close to reaching its potential. And I think that what we can do to put ourselves in the best possible place to embrace AI for good is to really double down on being human. AI is going to be really good at a lot of things. And it's actually pretty good right now at faking human emotion and human speech and human, you know, the deep fakes that are fooling people all across the internet. That's still not a very good human being. But we're all pretty good human beings. We're really good at being creative and curious and questioning and critical and really thinking about things in deep and hard ways. And I think if we double down on that, on our learning, our creativity, our adaptability, then AI becomes another tool in your toolbox to make your way through life. So let's double down on humanity because I think that's where we...
Speaker #1
That's a pretty positive note to end the conversation on. But what's a good URL to be able to see what you're doing and maybe take the course?
Speaker #0
Well, thank you for that. LinkedIn is probably the closest place or the easiest place to find me and connect. And please, if you do, reach out and I'd be happy to follow you back or connect with folks and continue this conversation there. Some of the background of my work is available at cshipley.com. I love a good conversation and I welcome others to join into the discussions.
Speaker #2
I hope you enjoyed meeting Chris Shipley. I love her quote about how innovation is imagining what could be, unconstrained by what exists. I think she's really captured what separates true innovators from everybody else. If you have questions and comments for Chris, or suggestions for future guests and shows, email us at comments at table414.co. Let us and our supporters know you enjoyed Table 414 by subscribing, recommending us to friends, and posting. Even a like or review is wonderful, and it helps get the word out. And for now, bye-bye, and see you next week.

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