Transcription

• Brian Cole

  Welcome to The Arts and Everything, UNCSA Media's new podcast. Each episode will explore our world, society, and current events through the lens of the arts, with incredible artists and industry experts joining the conversation. I'm Brian Cole, Chancellor of UNCSA, and your host, here to talk about the arts and, well, everything. We're just a few weeks into 2025, settling into the aftermath of the presidential inauguration. Here in the United States, and much of the world, we've been experiencing a deep political divide for years. In the midst of this growing polarization, we're faced with a real reckoning. Is there a way to come together again? How can we rediscover the humanity in each other, despite the very real and serious divisions we face? In order to do so, we need to start with empathy. Empathy is the key to understanding each other. And it just so happens that the arts have the power to evoke this ability in us. In this first episode, we're going to explore precisely how the arts can play the crucial role of bridging the divides that separate us. As the leader of an arts conservatory, I constantly witness the transformative power of the arts, from here on our campus in Winston-Salem to the work of our alumni worldwide. But it's not just what I see today. Science and history tell us the same thing: The arts are empathy machines and artists are the engineers. From Picasso to Leonard Bernstein, Quincy Jones to Lin-Manuel Miranda and everyone in between, throughout history art and artists have moved hearts and minds, created new understanding and brought people together. That is something we need to remember today and ask what exactly is the power of the arts that can do this? In this episode, I'm joined by two artists to help us answer just that. Our first guest has been in the business of the arts and empathy for decades. Stephen McKinley Henderson is an award-winning actor and alumnus of UNCSA. You may recognize him from films like Lady Bird, Dune, and Civil War, TV shows like A Man on the Inside, or his acclaimed work on Broadway. He was recently inducted into the American Theater Hall of Fame, and his career is a testament to the power of the arts. Stephen, it's so great to have the chance to talk to you today. How are you?

• Stephen McKinley Henderson

  I'm good. I'm good. This is a joy, actually. I've been looking forward to this.

• Brian Cole

  Well, first, I want to congratulate you again on your recent induction to the American Theater Hall of Fame. This is such a well-deserved honor, and I'm looking forward to seeing your name on the wall in the Gershwin Theater next time I'm there.

• Stephen McKinley Henderson

  Yeah, yeah. I tell you, that was a kick. To look and see all the names that are there and to realize that— I've been doing this a minute. I've been on the journey for a while, you know?

• Brian Cole

  It's an incredibly proud thing for our institution that an artist and a human being like you is an alumnus of this school. And your work, I mean, it continues to inspire our entire community, our students, our faculty, our staff. You came back to UNCSA in 2021 to serve as our commencement speaker. And you shared a beautiful message with our community that people really are still talking about today.

• Stephen McKinley Henderson

  The first film critic to win the Pulitzer Prize for criticism asserted that film is the ultimate empathy machine. Maybe film is the ultimate empathy machine. But live performances are empathy clinics. I beg you, young artists, to accept your role as alchemists of empathy, sorcerers of empathy, magicians of empathy. Our country needs your service. Just as this state and this nation needs this secular monastery, UNCSA, of which you are now honored alumnus. First of all, I'm really, really glad that you asked me to come there. Because NCSA was such an important part of my journey. And when I started thinking, well, what can I talk about? I wanted to emphasize that live arts, it's being in the room, you know, the audience. and the artist, the dancer, the musician, the actor, that relationship to each other and to other citizens, sitting next to people who you don't know. But that power of gathering in that kind of context really does open us, open us out to the world, open us out to other perspectives. Someone up there is trying to walk a mile in someone else's shoes, trying to express something universally human through music or dance or whatever the art form may be. And there are people out there who find out because of one particular story or another that they're not alone. that other people have felt that. And when a writer is really on point, they're expressing something for us all. And so we have to realize that we are communing in our humanness.

• Brian Cole

  I think that's a really beautiful way to look at it. And I wonder, within all the work you've done in your career, is there a particular work experience, one that really stands out in your mind as one of those moments where you felt this experience that it could be changing people? the audience or perhaps even the people you were working with, you know, on that project?

• Stephen McKinley Henderson

  Well, you know, 1981, I played Dublin, Ireland. It was a play called The Island, about two political prisoners on Robben Island. And that experience, doing that show in Dublin in 81, during the H Block fast, and the South African expatriates who were there, to gather with them there in Dublin and have the Irish people feel as if they had a clearer picture of what was going on and to have the South Africans accept us as Americans telling their story. It was really a milestone event for me in my career. I don't know what to call it, except that people would come up and they'd get past our performance right away. They'd get to talking about the issues in the play. And that was really fulfilling that we had given them that insight, that avenue into that part of contemporary history. And then I also did a production of a play called Jit Me with August Wilson. It was a father-son relationship that centered to that. And how many people came to see it once and then came back with a parent or a child that they said, I want you to see this and I want to see it with you. And I played perhaps the most villainous character in that play. And I so enjoyed that afterwards, some of the audience would come up. Most of the older women would come up and first they would hit me with their purse and say, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. And then they say, will you take a picture with me? And then the other, oh, I tell you one voice, you get me going.

• Brian Cole

  You can talk to me as mean as you want. I'll sit here all day.

• Stephen McKinley Henderson

  But this was. directly a School of the Arts story while there, a guy named Duke Ernstberger, a director who wanted to do "Requiem for a Heavyweight" as a play. And we toured the prisons one Christmas in North Carolina, and it changed us. So that was one of those experiences again, where you realize the power of dramatic art to touch and to bridge a gap between people who have very little income. It was powerful, powerful stuff.

• Brian Cole

  That is powerful. I mean, you're talking about years ago, but then and today, there are so many divisions in our society. We're in such a polarized moment in our history, and we're starting this next chapter in our country. We have a new president. We have a new administration. But all of those deep divisions that our nation has been suffering from, those are, of course, still there. In your most recent film, Civil War, you played a veteran journalist named Sammy who is living through a modern-day civil war here in America. That movie paints this image of a post-apocalyptic war-torn United States, but it wasn't about which side created it. You could have imagined either side of the spectrum had started the war.

• Stephen McKinley Henderson

  Yeah, yeah. There's one writer, and that was Alex Garland, and he's a wonderful writer and director, and he quite purposefully said, you know, it really doesn't matter how it started, who started it. No one wants to see your country looking like this. When we go to set, I would have looked at the news the night before and what was going on in Ukraine, and then we would go and see a set where our country was looking like that. And it's quite clear that no matter what side you're on or whatever, you don't want to see our country looking like that. And we have a system that should prevent that from happening, and all we have to do is use that system and improve upon it.

• Brian Cole

  The movie really struck a balance between portraying a disturbing yet believable story, one which is not too difficult to imagine as an outcome of our current political landscape. while also giving light to this powerful notion that there are things now that we can and should celebrate, that there is hope in where we are now and where things could be. In the context of the arts and what you do, are there things that give you hope as we move forward?

• Stephen McKinley Henderson

  Well, yes. I'm so glad you asked that question. I had a friendship with this poet, playwright, Amiri Baraka. And the last time I was with Amiri, I asked him, I said, man, you know, where are you now? You've been everything. You've been a socialist and a communist and a dialectical materialist and a cultural nationalist and all these labels that I remember him saying through the years, you know. And he said that he said, man, I'm a revolutionary optimist. He said, because in times like this, optimism is a revolutionary act. The whole idea of a revolutionary is that they believe in change and they believe change is possible. And he said, as an artist, I believe that I am a revolutionary optimist. What we know of history, we need to pass on the history, but we don't want to pass on bitterness. He says, we've got to pass on the optimism to say things were that bad and they got better. It's not perfect now, but you've got to believe that if they can come from where they were to where we got, you know, that we can get from here to a further place. And so, if somebody asks you, are you a Democrat, are you a Republican, you say, man, I'm a revolutionary optimist. And our country, really, if you look at that Constitution, baked into that document is an optimism that we can get a more perfect union, that it's possible to have a more perfect union. And so, we just don't want to go backwards with it. And we don't want us to be stagnant with it. We have to be going forward with it. So, I say, onward, onward.

• Brian Cole

  Stephen's stories remind us that the arts aren't just a reflection of the world or reaction to it. They help shape society. Whether it's bringing strangers together as an audience, sharing critical stories that create understanding, or picturing the world as it could be, storytelling is one of the oldest and most powerful forces. So how do we take Stephen's advice and move forward? How do we come together, despite our differences, to create that more perfect union? That's where Philippa comes in.

• Philippa Pham Hughes

  Hi, I'm Philippa Pham Hughes, and I am the Visiting Artist for Art and Civic Engagement at the University of Michigan Museum of Art. And I have curated a social sculpture called, "Hey, We Need to Talk."

• Brian Cole

  When I first heard the term social sculptor, I was immediately intrigued. As someone whose artwork involves creating spaces for honest conversation, Philippa is pushing the boundaries of what art can actually be. After the 2016 election, she began hosting dinners that brought together people with opposing political views. Today, she's joining me seated within her latest project, which is called "Hey, We Need to Talk." I'm really excited to talk with you about this topic, the powerful role that can play in bringing people together. Where did you start to see the power of those experiences or the art itself to bring people together?

• Philippa Pham Hughes

  I think when we say the word art, people have this idea of art. It's the stuff that hangs on the walls. It's the musical performance in a theater. But the thing that I'm really interested in right now is kind of expanding the idea of what is art. And so that's where the social sculpture comes in. Because when I think about expanding our concepts of what art is, I think about socially engaged art. And socially engaged art really is standing right on the line of what we think about as traditional art forms. And basically, being out in the world, you know, I do think of myself as an artist who is creating social sculptures. And the social sculpture is the space in which dialogue, conversations, human connection ultimately happens, where relationships happen. Because at the end of the day, my medium is relationships. My medium is the conversation.

• Brian Cole

  So our podcast listeners can't see this, but I see you. You're in the University of Michigan Museum of Art, and you're sitting in one of your works of art. This really beautiful exhibit experience that is called, Hey, We Need to Talk, which we absolutely do. Could you dig in a little bit about this experience that you've created and what you're doing in Michigan?

• Philippa Pham Hughes

  Yes. Thank you for noticing. It's hard not to notice this wallpaper that covers every surface. And my goal in creating what I call a social sculpture is to create a sense of awe. When people walk in, I want them to gasp. I want them to say, where am I? I want them to feel like they've stepped into a different place where we can talk, where outside in the world people are arguing or they refuse to speak to each other. But in this space, we can talk to each other. And so I want to signal that to the participant visually and then draw you into the conversation. So the wallpaper that you see behind me is part of that. It's the signaling. I commissioned this artist in Detroit named Louise Jones, to paint each of the state flowers, and then we turned it into this wallpaper. So the flowers represent our unity as a country, but also they're like a metaphor for flourishing, because flourishing is the ultimate goal for these conversations for me. How do we create a flourishing society together? We do that by beginning with a conversation, and we do that by having relationships with one another, by caring about one another enough. so that we want to create that world for ourselves and each other. And so not only have I created a physical space, but also I actually host a conversation in the space every week, a dinner and a lunch with politically diverse people. In fact, I'm sitting at a dining table that's within the space. So yes, I've created space, physical space, but it also requires an invitation. It requires me to do something. to make people feel welcome here. And so I think that's the key to social sculpture. It's not just build it and they will come. We actually have to bring people into that conversation.

• Brian Cole

  Nothing creates an experience better than art and food. I mean, it's as old as time, people sitting around a table and the conversations that come from that. And I think it's a powerful example where you're taking these experiences, putting them together. What are some of the outcomes from that experience that have surprised you?

• Philippa Pham Hughes

  Well, every week we had these meals and so many amazing stories have come out from individuals who've attended, had conversations, and then just really shifted the way they thought. My favorite is this one woman who came in and said she was fearful for her physical safety because she lived next door to a guy who had these. banners in front of his house and flags supporting his candidate, Donald Trump, and two people who were at the dinner who were supporters of Trump said that, you know, well, we support him. Are you afraid of us? And just saying that just got, I could even see it on her face. It really affected her. One day she saw that neighbor at the mailbox. And so she decided she's going to go talk to him for the first time ever in 10 years of living next to him. And went down and just started chit-chatting with him and said, hey, don't you think we should trade phone numbers so that in case anything happens to one of our houses, we can call each other? And he said, yeah, what a great idea. And she said she was taken aback. He was so nice and kind and open. So who knows? Are they going to be best friends? Probably not. But they become neighbors again who talk to each other.

• Brian Cole

  Any one of us at any given day, anywhere we are. we'll have those moments where we consciously or unconsciously look at somebody and judge them. And whether we think about it right in that moment or not, we might subconsciously feel like, I don't have a relationship with this person. I can never talk to that person. I'm afraid of that person or any number of things that somebody may think. But it's very seldom that we have the confidence or the opportunity to go up and actually interact with that person at all. And I think what's really wonderful about... The approach that you're taking is that you're creating experiences that enable people to do that, even if it's just that one statement at a dinner table.

• Philippa Pham Hughes

  You know, we've let that muscle atrophy. And so in a way, the social sculpture is a little exercise. You know, it's just practicing how to do that again. Or like you said, maybe you've never done that. And, you know, we know that in our polarized society, people are physically distant from each other. In the olden days. People would meet each other at church, but even churches have become polarized. So now you have your liberal church and your conservative church. And so how do we bring ourselves physically in contact with each other again? But like you said, we're bumping into each other all the time. So why not say hello?

• Brian Cole

  Well, we've just come through one of the most polarizing elections in recent history and are now entering a next period of four years, a new administration. The country remains deeply divided. on so many big central issues. What are you processing now as you think about the next year, the work you're doing? Are there any things on the horizon or opportunities that might be crystallizing for you related to this moment that we're in?

• Philippa Pham Hughes

  Well, this moment that we're in is part of an evolution of decades of polarization that has built up to this moment that continues. I love creating the social sculpture, but I think for me, the next step is to evangelize what this can do and have it be other people creating the sculpture. It can't always be me. I'm just one small person. It needs to be a thousand people creating social sculptures all over the country. And so that's what I'm thinking about. We still need to talk.

• Brian Cole

  As much as we still need to talk, we also need to listen. In her social sculptures, Philippa has just a few guidelines. And one of the most important is to truly listen without doing something that comes naturally to most of us, thinking of a response while the other person is still talking. For meaningful connection to happen, participants must not only listen actively, but also share deeply. Two core experiences of the arts. In a theater, a concert hall, or a gallery, we listen both as individuals and as part of a collective. We're surrounded by strangers who may not share our politics, backgrounds, or even speak our language. Yet, in those moments, the act of listening unites us. and the artist creating those moments it is their sharing that initiates the connection connection that can live on long after the performance is over in this time of great division there are those living in a moment of celebration and many others experiencing disappointment or fear but through empathy and understanding we can begin to picture a future that works for all of us regardless of our differences. Maybe it starts with attending a performance, listening to a story, or simply striking up a conversation with a stranger. Whatever that first step is, the arts can help us see how much more there is that connects us than divides us. Thank you for joining us on this journey and for tuning in for the very first episode of The Arts and Everything. And this is just the beginning. We have so many great episodes coming soon that explore... the incredible connections between the arts and our world. The Arts and Everything is a podcast by UNCSA Media. I'm your host, Brian Cole. Our development producers are School of Design and Production alumna Maria Wirtel and digital content producer Sasha Hartzell. The show's executive producers are Corey Kelly and Katherine Johnson. Creative direction and design is Allie Myers-Gagnon, and digital strategy and distribution is Natalie Schrader. Music was composed by School of Music faculty member Chris Heckman and performed by Andrea Vasconcelos, Chris Heckman, and School of Music students Mia K. Cardoza and Gabe Lopez. A special thanks to the Thomas S. Keenan Institute for the Arts and its executive director Kevin Bitterman, Chris Heckman, and the Graduate Program in Composition for Film and Visual Media, our amazing School of Music students, and to Stephen and Philippa for being our very first guests on The Arts and Everything.