Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Under the lab coats, the podcast that undresses scientists. I'm Elodie Chabrol, and I can't wait to take you with me to meet the humans behind the research. We will, of course, talk a little bit about science, but we will mostly talk about them. Hi everyone, welcome for this new episode of Under the Lab Coat. Today I have the pleasure to welcome Fernando Garcia, agronomist that we also can call Dr. Banana. Hi Fernando.

• Speaker #1

  Hello Dodie and thank you for inviting me.

• Speaker #0

  I'm really happy to have you as a guest because it's been quite a long time that I follow you on Twitter and I'm really interested in everything you're going to tell us today. So I said Dr. Banana and agronomist, so what are you researching on?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, indeed. My name is Fernando. I'm from Colombia, first of all, and I've been a scientist for at least 20 years. Eight of those years I worked in coffee research, but then I shifted to banana.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, you're going to explain the whole background later. We're going to know everything. Yes,

• Speaker #1

  exactly. So I've been working on bananas since 2012 and currently I'm leading the breeding program on banana at Kijin. which we focus on developing new varieties of banana.

• Speaker #0

  So when we follow you on Twitter and Instagram, your lab is basically like a growing place of banana. You're with banana trees all the time.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, so I actually have a very interesting job because I have three places to work. I work on my office 30% of the time and another 30% of the time in the lab, in the real lab. And the rest is in the greenhouse, so it's a very nice job actually.

• Speaker #0

  So what do you do in those three different parts? So when you say improve banana breeding, what is it exactly that you're doing?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, so I don't know, probably you've heard about a very important disease that is spreading and basically is killing bananas. And at the moment we don't have any replacement for the current banana. And you know, the banana we eat at the moment is the same everywhere. So it's genetically identical. That means that one disease can kill everything and that's happening. And that already happened before with a different type of banana. So the story repeats, this disease is killing bananas. So apart from understanding the disease as a whole, we are trying to develop new bananas that are resistant to that disease. So my work in three different Environment is different, but towards the same goal, which is bringing new diversity, new bananas that can be resistant to that disease. So in the computer, for example, I check together with my colleagues, of course, analysis of the sequences of DNA, developing markers, making selection of the plants. In the lab, we extract the seeds of the bananas. We grow the plants. In the tissue culture labs, we perform studies, so we inoculate bananas with the disease to identify resistant bananas. And in the greenhouse, what we do is to actually create new bananas. So we do it free of GM, so we don't do GM bananas, we do it in the old school. So we use the pollen of the bananas to create new bananas.

• Speaker #0

  Wow, this is amazing. And I didn't know we had the same bananas everywhere.

• Speaker #1

  I'm not telling that in every place of the world is just one. Actually, we have more than 1200 different types of bananas. But the banana that is used in the international market is one is called Cavendish. So the same banana you find in the supermarkets in France are the same bananas that we find here in the Netherlands and the same that are found in Japan is just one. Wow. Okay,

• Speaker #0

  okay. So it's important. And the disease is the Panama disease, right?

• Speaker #1

  Exactly. Yes, that's the... an official name of the disease. You know, people from Panama are not very happy that the disease is called Panama disease, but because of the impact of the first version of the disease, the impact that caused in Panama, that's why it was called the Panama disease. The official name of the disease is Hussarum wilt, and it's called Hussarum wilt because it caused the wilting of the plants and the pathogen, so the agent that causes the disease is called Hussarum.

• Speaker #0

  Wow, this is really interesting. What I'm going to do is that I'm going to put, you have a few links where you explain your research as well. Yeah. So I'm going to do, I'm going to put your social media in the description of this podcast. And also, I think you talked in Forbes article about the disease and everything. So I'm going to put all that. So if people want to know more about your research and all that, they can go and have a read and follow you as well to see everything that you do. So now my burning question is always, do you wear a lab coat in the lab?

• Speaker #1

  I wear a lab coat always. And I really recommend people to do it because, you know, it's not just a matter of fashion. The lab coats have a purpose and need protection. And you cannot imagine the amount of accidents that I've seen in these 20 years of experience working in the lab. And also when people say, for example, don't wear shorts. don't wear open shoes is real is real yeah so i i like lab coats i really enjoy wearing them and the place where i work we have different colors of lab coats in every lab so that's very nice i love i love it and in the greenhouse is less dangerous in terms of chemicals but the bananas produce a lot of substance that is that destroys the clothes stain the clothes so i use it for injuries

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I was wondering if you have the same lab coats as well for the greenhouse.

• Speaker #1

  In the greenhouse, we use disposable lab coats because it's very dirty, of course, always. So we just, we don't reuse also to prevent diseases and these kind of things.

• Speaker #0

  And I think I've seen you on social media with some kind of yellow lab coat.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  No?

• Speaker #1

  Also yellow lab coats and pink lab coats, all kind of lab coats. Depends on the place where we are. We have different colors.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, that's really cool. You also have a crazy collection of banana stuff in the lab. And if people follow you on social media, they can see that. And I find it really, really, really cool. Okay, so thank you for explaining your research and to tell me about the lab coat. Now we're going to remove it to talk about you and how did you end up doing that kind of research? So what did you want to do as a kid?

• Speaker #1

  It's a very interesting question in the right moment because, you know, now we are in the news because we were able to create the first resistant prototype of the banana. So for the first time, so we are in the news in many journals now and I posted on my social media and my Facebook and one friend told me, I remember when we were in the school that you wanted to be a director of films and TV. And it's true. So when I was younger, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted to study arts and mostly like movies, TV, being a director. That's what I wanted. But, you know, I'm from Colombia. At that time, it was difficult. I was not from a rich family or something. So you have to find something that will give you a good job. That's what we are told when we are little, right? At that moment, I love plants. I love insects. I love diseases on the plants, since I remember that because I'm from a countryside, so I live in a farm and I really like those things and in the university of my city, one of the most important careers is the agronomy. And I had, I had an uncle that was a successful tan breeder like what I'm now. And he was kind of an inspiration because. mostly because he traveled a lot. He travels a lot and I love to see him sometimes on the TV explaining about his plants. And that was an inspiration for me. And it's funny because now I'm doing the same. But at that time, I didn't really thought that I would become an agronomist. So at some point I decided to go in that specialization and I love it. I just love everything about this career. I love the plants, the diseases, insects. soil, you learn a lot and then I fall in love with this. It's really amazing. But that never stopped me to accomplish the dream of making TV or cinema. And that's why you've seen that I'm making a lot of videos and I try to... I became a science communicator mostly because I love that also. So I combine these two things.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, we're going to talk about science communication a bit later. Yeah. What did your uncle breed? So you say, is your uncle breeding? What is he breathing?

• Speaker #1

  He's retired now, but he was working on oil pump.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  So he was making better pumps that are resistant to diseases.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  that are more sustainable so that you don't need to apply lots of chemicals because the plants are resistant to diseases so that was what he was doing at the time and you were good in science already in high school because something i was very good at science because i was really passionate about what i was doing but i was very bad for many of the signatures so i was i i'm just chemistry i lost mathematics i i'm I failed in all these things in the first because I also came from a school that was not that good. So when I moved to the university for me was really hard because my colleagues were very good at all these things but for me was really difficult. So I failed in many of those and unfortunately my university only offers those classes every year. So it was yearly. So I lost one year of my life waiting for them. I had to repeat.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, you had to redo the first year?

• Speaker #1

  Yes, so of course it was a disappointment for my family, for my mother especially, because even though it was a cheap university, still a very good university, but I was thinking to retire. Okay. But I had to repeat that during the summer classes or not, but then you know I focus and I think that I said like you know I really love this and We know the first semesters on this career is just the basics. It's mathematics, chemistry, so nothing about what you are really going to do in the future. But the moment I passed the first two years, I started to receive the lessons of things that I like, like botany, diseases. And that was really, for me, was the best. I enjoyed that. And you know, when you love things, you learn faster and you make more of yourself to take advantage of that. I was very happy to. And then during that period, being an agronomist in Colombia opens the doors for you. So you can be a lot of things. You can be a professor, you can be a businessman in that area. But I wanted to be a scientist. So I decided during my studies that I wanted to be a scientist because I really liked it.

• Speaker #0

  And this is when you decided to do a PhD?

• Speaker #1

  No, I mean, yes, I decided. If I wanted to be a scientist, I had to continue with my studies. Yeah. But when I finished the bachelor, I went to work directly in a company of coffee research. Okay. I went for my internship, but then I was hired. Okay. And then I continued. I worked like for probably five years just with my bachelor degree there. Okay. But of course, if I wanted to grow in the company and become a real scientist, I had to start publishing papers and teaching. So I decided to. to do a master and then when I finished my master's I feel that I had to do the PhD but I had to do it abroad so I was at that time in Colombia and I started looking. Of course I wanted to continue on coffee at that time but it was difficult and you know destiny and then I ended up in the Netherlands doing a PhD in banana and fruit salami and I stayed.

• Speaker #0

  Okay you answered two of my questions that I was about to ask. That were when did you move from Colombia to the Netherlands and how did you switch from coffee to banana? So you answered it. Why coffee at the beginning? Was it something you really liked or was it? Yes. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Yes. You know, when you talk about Colombia, there are many negative things that come to most people. But also in the positive side is always coffee. So the best coffee, blah, blah, blah. I don't know if we have the best coffee, but we have a very good coffee. Yeah. And I love coffee because I told you at the beginning that I was from the countryside and the farm of my grandmother had coffee and bananas. But my coffee was like my first love, I always say, and I really wanted to work on coffee. So I, that's why I moved to this, it's called Ceni Cafe, the research center of coffee in Colombia. And that was the place I wanted to be. So that was like my first, my first. It was a big success, although it was a little bit difficult, but I managed to go there and it's like a school for scientists in Colombia. It's really good quality of research and I love coffee and I was doing the same thing that I'm doing now on banana but on coffee. So I was trying to improve the coffee to make it better.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Okay. That's why. Coffee, then you switched to banana. Now you're completely Dr. Banana.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, indeed.

• Speaker #0

  So it's funny in a way because in your farm when you were a kid you had coffee and banana and it's exactly what you worked on.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly. It's a coincidence. It's something I always say. that I'm very lucky but my mother always said that I'm very lucky because of all the things that I achieved but I sometimes I give her like your mom give me a little bit of credit it's not just love it's you also dream for things but when you dream for something you have to actually do something you have to try to if I would not I wouldn't like do all the things that I did to go to coffee the story would be very different because going to this place of coffee it took me a lot of effort and time and I was in the moment that I was already like planning to go to work with my uncle. Remember I told you so because that was the easiest way because he had already a let's say a name, a position and I'm almost sure that he would start being happy to tell me like you know come here and work with me and that but that's that was something I didn't want because I wanted to be successful by my own means and And especially in different crops, I didn't, I was not very familiar with the oil palm and I really liked coffee. So I wanted to work with coffee and that gave me the jump to what I'm doing now in bananas.

• Speaker #0

  So are you a coffee drinker?

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  Of course. And are you a banana eater?

• Speaker #1

  That's don't tell anybody, but I don't eat too many bananas.

• Speaker #0

  That's the thing, you know, I'm always wondering because when you see people working with things that you eat, like, you know, people that work with chocolate. Yes. Like, you know, people say, oh, it's the dream job. And I'm like, probably not. Because at one point, you're a bit tired of it because they're there all the time. So you probably want something else.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, indeed. Yeah. For coffee, I drink a lot of coffee and I was happy to be there because we had coffee all the time. But with bananas, I think I like them. But. Bananas, like the typical banana is not my favorite. Also, I know the importance of the banana and I love what I'm doing. I prefer the cooking type of bananas, which are a staple food in many countries. So I really love that.

• Speaker #0

  Like the plantain one?

• Speaker #1

  Exactly. Okay.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, the plantain are like bigger. So what's the difference really?

• Speaker #1

  The difference is very big. I'm not going to explain that because it's genetics. but it has to be with the genomes. It's different. It's not a different species, but it's very different genetically. So what we call the banana, the one you find in the supermarket, it's called usually the dessert banana because you eat it raw, but the plantains, you have to cook them. So cook, fry, whatever. So it's more starchy. It's impossible to eat it raw. You treat it as more or less as a potato. So that's the way.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, because I've tried... No,

• Speaker #1

  it's impossible.

• Speaker #0

  I can attest, it's not a good idea. Yeah, and they are bigger, they are starchy, exactly. They are like the potato type of banana. Definitely they need cooking to be edible. Okay, well, this is fascinating. So now you're doing research, you're working on banana. How long have you been working on bananas?

• Speaker #1

  I've been working on bananas since 2012. So it's already more than 10 years. So it was not...

• Speaker #0

  Amazing. Do you still love it?

• Speaker #1

  I still love it because as I said, it's very dynamic. My work is not just not, it's not very boring. Like it's not repetitive. It's always a new challenge and I'm happy because now I'm actually leading the group. So I have a lot of resources and people to work. I feel very, very happy with this job actually.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Definitely. I'm a bit jealous when I see your greenhouse. You know, I'm like, if in the lab, I could have been in the plants all day. Like, you know, it's very nice. Except I would have killed all the plants because I'm not really good at it. But yeah, which is actually a good transition because I wanted to talk about the things you do on the site. So you talked a bit about the science communication. We're going to go back to that. But you love plants. So I follow you on social media. You try lots of different things at home as well.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, I do. I always, my wife always says that my hobby is just to get into new office and it's true. So I really spend a lot of time and I, all the things I do, I do it intensively and really seriously. So I love bonsai. It's something I've been doing since the thousands more or less. I'm also love, I love toys. So I collect toys since I'm little. So I Last year I managed to bring all my collection to the Netherlands from Colombia. It was in a box for more than 10 years in my mother's house. Yeah. I managed to...

• Speaker #0

  What kind of toys?

• Speaker #1

  What kind of like... You know toys? People call them toys. I call them toys but we... we call them actually action figures so for movies yeah yeah like Avengers I think something that yes I have a big collection of that um I like cooking and I like to learn about cooking and I love drawing you mentioned that and additionally I also do science communication as a hobby but you know I've been thinking like what is my real hobby and I think my real hobby is actually to communicate because And something that connects all these hobbies is that I always film. I always film these kind of things and I try to not just show what I have or what I do, but it's like teaching because I know that there is people interested in all these hobbies also. And let's say in some things I know a little bit more. So I try to teach like how to do bonsai and making reviews of my toys. So that's actually something that makes me happy. So I've been thinking and I said, my real hobby is actually to make videos.

• Speaker #0

  So we're going back to what you wanted to do as a kid.

• Speaker #1

  I think so. And this came with the first question that you made, because it's and what I told you about my Facebook that one of my colleagues from the high school told me, and I have forgotten about that. I forgot that I really wanted to. And he was very specific in that comment in Facebook. He said like, I remember very clear when you make a movie about one of our colleagues and you film. and you make it like in one day and i was like true i forgot i did these kind of things so but of course before and in those times we didn't have a digital cameras like now yeah yeah the the ones with the cassettes and of course was more typical but uh yeah but i hope i i at some point i would like to do something like you know like a documentary about bananas so yeah I'm just learning now.

• Speaker #0

  So if someone hears us. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  please.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, if you're hearing us and you want to do a documentary about bananas. Yes, please. Definitely. Yeah, so science communication. You have a TikTok account?

• Speaker #1

  I have a TikTok, but I'm not using it for science communication. I use the TikTok for my more fresh material, like the toys and these kind of things.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. You have Instagram?

• Speaker #1

  But on Instagram and on YouTube, I do more science communication. A little bit. a little bit more serious, but I always say, you know, it's different from most science communicators there because some science communicators become like influencers, but I was, before I became a science communicator, I already made videos about other things. And then at some point in my life, when, especially when I came to the Netherlands, I noticed that here in the Netherlands, those kinds of things are appreciated in my country. It was not. So being a communicator was to waste your time or something like that.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. So I stopped for many years, but when I came to the Netherlands, they actually encouraged me to do it. And you know, you have a talent, please do it. So I had the talent for filming, to editing. And then if you see my material from 10 years ago, it's all, everything about toys and reviews and things. But at some point I said, okay, I'm going to mix. So I use science now and then to communicate what I'm doing. And also. sharing information from others also to help them.

• Speaker #0

  It's really fantastic. And actually, so you said you were drawing. You have an account for that. It's Bananatoons, right?

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  You were drawing science communicators or scientists at one point? Yes.

• Speaker #1

  At some point during the pandemic, I had more time, of course, and I had a tablet and I started drawing colleagues. that were on Twitter and it was a very nice year. I drew like more than I would say like 400 portraits of fellow people.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, so I'm going to put the link of that. And I have a question, how many bonsais do you have?

• Speaker #1

  I don't know how many bonsai like because bonsai is a very specific type of thing, but between plants and pre-bonsai and bonsai, I have more than 200.

• Speaker #0

  Wow. In your house?

• Speaker #1

  In my house. But you know, that's the advantage of having bonsai, that you don't need a lot of space.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, exactly.

• Speaker #1

  Because if you ask a lot of people who love plants, they say like, I have 200 plants, but in the whole house, I have just a little corner in my house and I have all my bonsai there.

• Speaker #0

  It's what I like seeing actually on social media. You like to make really weird bonsais.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  So what's the weirdest you've made?

• Speaker #1

  Because you know, I'm very late. So I started in 2000 in Colombia. So I don't have any of those materials here. So I started in the Netherlands again.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  If you want a nice bonsai, you need to wait for 30, 15 years. Yeah. So. To start having something while the other, the real ones grow, I started with what I call unusual bonsai.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  So I do bonsais of everything. So the weirdest thing I see is a potato.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, okay.

• Speaker #1

  So a bonsai, a potato. But of course, the banana bonsai is also very weird.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  But I have one, I have a strawberry, I have potato, mangoes, all this kind of, everything that falls in my hands, I try to, I call it bonsai fire.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, you're trying. So every seed you have, you're trying to plant it, right? Because I sent you baobab seeds. I think you've made a bonsai out of it, actually.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, it's still growing and it's very pretty. Yes, I'll send you a picture so you can see it.

• Speaker #0

  One thing as well, I don't know if you're still doing it, but you are carving avocado nuts, right? Yes, yes. Do we say nuts?

• Speaker #1

  That's part of the unusual bonsai. So I do some of my avocado bonsai. Yeah. are also additionally carved in the seeds.

• Speaker #0

  And it's beautiful. So go have a look. It's on Instagram, I think you can see.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, on Instagram I have some there.

• Speaker #0

  Go and check on Instagram because it's really pretty and we can see you have a talent for drawing because definitely on the... It's not just like very basic one. It's very pretty avocado ones. And science communicator. So what is the next thing you would love to do in science communication? You said a documentary about bananas.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, so it's, you know, everyone can do sign communication at different levels. So it's with one picture with a video or something. My plan for the for next year is hopefully if I find like support, I would like to do a documentary about banana. Yeah, but I'm also planning on writing a book. I cannot tell you too many details that I'm planning to make a write a book together with many people on social media. That's my next big project, let's say, for science communication. And it will be, of course, about bananas, but also the different uses that we give to bananas.

• Speaker #0

  So definitely please follow Fernando on social media, if you want to know the rest of the story and see everything. So hobbies, it feels like hobbies are a lot about bananas and plants and everything. No, action figures, actually, that's a different one. Do you have other hobbies that are outside of science?

• Speaker #1

  Well, apart from the bonsai, the plants I like cooking a lot, I'm planning also on this kind, because you know, my content is very, how can I say it, special, because I do science communication, but I always try to mix with my other hobbies. So what I'm trying to do now is, I will say every time, one time per week. or every two weeks what i want to do now is to cook something with bananas oh nice okay so different things from different parts of the world and that's my my plan so of course i need some time but i have already the list of things that i want to do so every i cannot promise that every week but at least every two three weeks i'm planning to post one video on cooking with bananas okay can't wait so the thing is that i'm going to cook something but I'm also going to explain and for example if I'm going to cook with plantains I will explain the genetics behind this amazing that's my strategy and that's how it's been working for the last year so you know I'm trying to target to people without scientific background and people everyone loves art in different ways yeah drawings so if I manage to attract to engage with them with these strategies they will be curious about what I'm doing and about science. Many people say like, you know, I didn't know that there were so many varieties of bananas or I didn't know that the plantains are so different to other bananas. So that's my way to communicate science. It's different.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it's amazing because I think it's the first time because I've seen a lot of science communication, but with cooking, I think it's the first time I hear that. So I'm super interested. So you have a follower already and I can't wait to see all the videos. But it's important, as you said, you know, people like art, but they like all the different things. And I think that's the beauty of science communication lately is that we realize that it's not just by writing blogs or writing books. It's like trying to attract people with lots of different subjects and interests that you can actually put a bit of science in it. So for you, it's like, let's cook banana and put a bit of science in the cooking. And I find it fascinating. So I really can't wait to watch the videos and to try the recipes maybe as well.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, indeed. That's my plan.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, this is a really, really good plan. And if you want to do the documentary, would you also be filming? Do you want to be filming it? Ideally.

• Speaker #1

  Ideally, yes, but of course I don't have all the tools to do it. I have a standard camera. So if somebody wants to help with that, I'm very open because I have good ideas and I'm really looking for a collaboration for these kind of things. If somebody listens to this podcast and we have a suggestion or wants to collaborate, please.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. I will put all the links to follow you and contact you anyway. So if you want to do a documentary on bananas, you know where to go and where to look for. We are already almost at the end of this podcast. So it's gone really fast. It's so fascinating. And it's also making me a bit hungry, to be honest. But before we finish, I would like to know if there is something maybe we didn't talk about. or we talked about quickly and you want to end the podcast with, you know, if you have a message to finish the podcast.

• Speaker #1

  You know, I'm talking about bananas. I can talk hours, hours of that. And we, of course, we don't want to make it too long. But something that I was thinking is that what you mentioned just earlier is very important that it doesn't matter the strategy you use to communicate your science or your work. You can do it by using different strategies. People love art and that's why I do it like that. People like fun stuff. I was doing, I was, when I was in Colombia working on Ko-fi, I, because I was already a YouTuber at the time, I started to communicate things on Ko-fi, but I used like the typical kind of poster, a graph with the statistics and, and you know, zero views, nobody was interested. And at most, the people who also work in Ko-fi, will see. And I realized at that moment that scientists of our peers, they don't need, I mean, they don't, it's not that they don't need it, but they don't need people to tell them about science because we as scientists, we have access to this information and we know where to look for it. But people who are not in the world of science without any scientific background, they need us to make, to build this bridge and to communicate. what we are doing in a very simple way. And there is this very famous phrase among the world of scientists that says, you have to explain your research as if you are explaining it to your grandma. And your grandma has to understand. So that's the moment when I realized that this is the way. And when I noticed that people like my grandma understand what I'm doing easily, that was a complete game changer in my social media because I had like two followers. And suddenly when I started to post this using humor, using that, using it was a boom. So grow, grow, grow and people like it. Probably some people don't like it, but they will like the next one. Yeah. So it's, I think it's a good strategy to make it as easy as possible and make it fun.

• Speaker #0

  Always accessible.

• Speaker #1

  And also some something that is happening now is that many people also feel. forced to do science communication now or two and you know it's not necessary so you don't feel like you want to do it you don't need to do it so this is not for everyone and just feel free to to do it only if you like it that's my advice because i feel i feel and i get many messages that say like you know i feel that every scientist now is in social media and telling what they're doing and I feel the pressure, I feel anxious because I'm not very good at this, or I don't like it. I say, we don't need to do it. We are already doing a lot of working on science. So just relax, enjoy, and if you feel that you want to do it, I can help you. But that is not your duty to do it in that way.

• Speaker #0

  Well, the thing is grants now, they are asking, so financials, they are asking to do science communication. But you don't have always as a person to do science communication. You need your project to be communicated so you can find ways. And there is a bit of money you can find professionals doing it, actually. You know what? I think if you feel like doing science communication in a way, you should follow your heart. Because it's what we did with Pint of Science. And when we created it, I went... to discuss with one guy that was doing public engagement in London that was very big in science communication and he told me it was the worst idea ever and it would never work I left that meeting crying. I never said anything to the team until the festival because I didn't want to kill the mood. And it worked really well. And it was a success. And it's in so many countries and it's such a success. And I told them after the festival when we succeeded. And I think it's just some people are ready to receive what you have to share the way you have to share it. Sometimes people are not. Some people may be jealous as well. But I think if you believe in your heart, that it's a nice way, you're probably going to find people as well that are going to like it. You can also try different ways and see what fits you best and what works the best for the people you want to share it with. But I think before, it was really like formal science. You were communicating in a very formal way, a bit boring. And now you have so many ways to share science. And also, if you're listening, you're not scientists. If you love science, you have... Lots of different ways to see science, you know. And now I have, I hope I'm going to count one more soon with the cooking, the science of cooking bananas. But yeah, you have so many ways. And I think if you're a scientist and you want to do science communication, I think enjoying it is a big part of it. Because it also feels, you know, when you're enjoying it, when you do something you really want to do, it really feels when you're in the public that that person is enjoying it and it's very nice.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly. I agree completely.

• Speaker #0

  Perfect. I love finishing on science communication, this podcast. Yes, me too. Thank you very much. So again, I said this already, but I'm going to put lots of links of all the stuff you do, the communications you've done as well in the description. So if you want to know more about the research or if you want to follow YouTube and everywhere, Fernando, we can follow you everywhere and see the next stories that you're going to do. Thank you very much for sharing everything with us. It was amazing.

• Speaker #1

  Well, thank you, Juju. It was really, really a pleasure to talk to you. And finally, we have this communication. We've been following each other for a long time. And finally, we have the chance to talk.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, exactly. It was really great to talk to you. And thank you for agreeing to be on the podcast.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you.

• Speaker #0

  Bye bye.

• Speaker #1

  Bye bye.

• Speaker #0

  That's it for this episode under the lab coat. I hope you enjoyed it. Don't hesitate to rate the podcast.