For PMMs, it can be difficult to have a good relationship with sales, especially in new roles.  Win-loss analysis and interviews can be a good win when you see that close-lost column piling up on the CRM pipeline. But how can you take another responsibility on your to-do when you’re already swamped? Matthew Reeves, CEO and co-founder of GoldPan, runs a win-loss analysis agency. In this episode, he’s showing us: How to build rapport with sales teams The complexities of positioning and messaging Why you need both wins and losses for good research.  Why information overload kill sales.  The nuanced value of churn analysis.  Hear also the very unique take of Matthew on if product marketers are marketers, we can’t say we heard this one yet! Timespan: 00:00 Welcome to We're Not Marketers 00:19 Introducing Matthew Reeves, CEO of GoldPan 01:37 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 02:49 The Evolution and Challenges of Marketing 12:21 The Importance of Win-Loss Analysis 21:31 Building Rapport Between Product Marketers and Sales 34:25 Sales Missteps and Buyer Uncertainty 34:59 Understanding Product Assessment 35:34 The Role of Risk and Values in Buying Decisions 37:01 Challenges in Product Marketing 37:48 The Importance of Win-Loss Analysis 38:39 Switching Costs and Product Marketing 40:34 Effective Sales Messaging 43:14 The Buyer-Seller Dynamic 50:06 The Value of Churn Analysis 54:29 Bad Sales Experiences 01:01:33 Closing Thoughts and Future Plans Show Notes: Matthew’s LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthew-reeves-goldpan/) Goldpan website (https://goldpan.io/) Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Get ready for some real talk about positioning! In this episode, we sit down with the queen of positioning herself, April Dunford. If your startup’s positioning feels a little “mushy” or your product is getting compared to everyone under the sun, this episode is for you. April shares her no-nonsense approach to tightening up your message and teaching your CEO why positioning isn’t just some abstract marketing concept—it’s the foundation of your success. Whether you’re battling internal buy-in or figuring out how to stand out in a crowded market, April’s got the answers (plus a few hilarious takes on toilets and camping). Here’s what you’re missing, by not listening: Is your product positioning “mushy”? Learn why vague messaging is killing your pitch—and how to fix it. The secret weapon for startups: April’s advice on involving sales and product teams in positioning. Why “actionable insights” aren’t really actionable: How to cut the jargon and speak your customer's language. CEO thinks their product positioning is fine? April’s roadmap to making them see the problem—without calling their baby ugly. Positioning vs. features: Why selling value over features is your ultimate key to success. Show Notes 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 01:05 Meet the Hosts and Guest Introduction 01:39 April Dunford on Product Marketing 03:25 The Role of Positioning in Startups 09:17 Building Influence as a Product Marketer 23:27 Fun and Games with April Dunford 34:26 Discovering Catan: A Board Game Revelation 35:00 Building Dreams: Choosing the Perfect Cottage Location 36:10 Torture Chamber Round: Birds or Stars? 38:42 The Cardinal Sins of Product Positioning 43:33 Selling Platforms: Value Over Features 01:00:17 The Art of Persuasive Writing in Marketing 01:04:52 Career Advice for Product Marketers 01:11:01 Engage with April Dunford: Books, Podcasts, and More Resources April Dunford LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/aprildunford/) April Dunford website (https://www.aprildunford.com/) April Dunford’s Positioning Podcast  (https://www.positioning.show/) Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Dealing with the chaos of being a PMM while trying to balance the rest of your life? You’re not alone. In this candid episode of We're Not Marketers, Zach, Eric, and Gab dive into the realities of managing life as a Product Marketing Manager, whether you're in-house or fractional. From overwhelming work expectations to the struggle of balancing personal life, the team discusses how to protect your mental health while handling an always-on work culture. They share personal stories, tips like setting boundaries, removing work apps from phones, and practical advice on how to deal with burnout. If you're feeling the strain of managing your career, relationships, and self-care, this episode is a must-listen. Key takeaways include: Strategies to create separation between work and personal time (e.g., daily rituals, setting boundaries, Slack detox). Real-talk about burnout and why mental health shouldn’t be just a “corporate benefit.” Practical tips on saying “no” to unrealistic requests and protecting your productivity. How fractional PMMs handle the pressure of multiple clients while in-house PMMs navigate endless internal demands. Tune in to hear the team's perspectives on how to reclaim balance and stay sane as a PMM. Show Notes 00:00 Introduction and Sponsor Message 01:02 The Challenges of Being a Product Marketer 02:22 In-House vs. Fractional Product Marketing 04:45 Balancing Work and Personal Life 07:41 Setting Boundaries and Mental Health 22:02 Productivity Tips and Techniques 30:50 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

In this episode of We're Not Marketers, we sit down with the one and only Jeff Chase, Director of Brand and Product Marketing at Vitally.io (http://Vitally.io), who drops a major hot take—product marketers aren’t marketers (wait, what?!). But Jeff doesn’t stop there. He believes PMMs are the future leaders of marketing, and he’s got the experience and insights to back it up. Tune in as we dive into the evolving role of product marketers in B2B SaaS. From positioning and messaging to why PMMs have the potential to become CMOs, Jeff shares his journey and unique approach to blending product and brand marketing. We also tackle the age-old question: how can PMMs build better relationships with their brand teams? Whether you're a PMM ready to shake up your organization or just curious about where this role is headed, this convo is one you don’t want to miss: PMMs vs. Marketers: Jeff’s surprising take on why product marketers aren’t really marketers. The Future CMO Pipeline: Why Jeff believes product marketers are primed to become the next generation of marketing leaders. The Art of Brand Storytelling: How product marketers can elevate their influence by mastering brand marketing collaboration. Hiring Hacks: Jeff’s refreshing approach to recruitment, and why he believes hiring managers have a deeper responsibility than you think. Copycats Beware: How to stay a step ahead of competitors who love to swipe your messaging. Time Stamps  00:00 Introduction and Host Intros 00:56 Special Guest Introduction: Jeff 02:02 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 04:35 The Future of Product Marketing 08:55 Building Cross-Functional Relationships 10:48 The Role of Brand Marketing 14:30 Hiring and Leadership Insights 36:21 Dealing with Competitors 43:46 Conclusion and Sign-Off Show Notes Jeff Chase LinkedIn Profile (https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffchase1/) Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

In this episode, Jarod Greene, CMO of Vivint, shares his journey from teaching middle school math to Gartner analyst to CMO today and offers actionable advice for PMMs struggling to gain recognition. Learn how to use research, co-create with sales, and communicate your value to drive impactful product marketing strategies in your workplace. When you let Jarod cook (#lethimcook) and you’re gonna get… How teaching 7th graders prepared Jarod to lead B2B marketing strategy—and why it’s still the hardest job he’s ever done. The “magician” role of product marketers: Why being a chameleon is the ultimate superpower in your company (and how to harness it). Co-create with sales? Yes, please. The surprising reason your best sales reps should help write your next piece of content. Forget the committee—Jarod’s trick to stop internal fights over messaging using the one thing no one can argue with: Data. “I had no idea what PMM was 10 years ago” – how Jarod went from confused to CMO and why it could be your career roadmap too. Content without context = chaos. Jarod’s formula for why great content flops (and how to make it land every time). How to manage up, down, and sideways: Jarod’s guide to becoming a leader before you even get the title. Time Stamps  00:00 We're Not Marketers (S3) - Jarod Greene 01:00 Welcome to Season Three! 01:46 Introducing Gerard Green 03:01 From Teaching to Marketing 05:15 The Role of Product Marketers 07:15 Becoming a CMO 18:03 Content with Context 22:19 Co-Creating with Sales 28:20 The Content Production Dilemma 29:07 The Importance of Research in Marketing 30:27 Primary vs. Secondary Research 31:22 Leveraging Data for Decision Making 39:43 Integrating AI in Marketing Strategies 43:34 The Reality of Product Market Fit 51:21 Upcoming Projects and Events Show Notes Jarod Greene LinkedIn Profile (https://www.linkedin.com/in/ACoAAAK9DAsBTzOJTYA2K4YA4DQbnx75vW5B2vc?lipi=urn%3Ali%3Apage%3Ad_flagship3_messaging_conversation_detail%3B1EbwNABdTJS7nnz2vjELFg%3D%3D) UNXPCTD - Explore way AI is revolutionizing B2B Sales  (https://unxpctd.vivun.com/) Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

There are many different flavors of product marketers, whether you’re in-house or fractional like our host, you need to be aware of your special sauce 😉 The product marketing function is becoming more and more nuanced, so you need to know what you are good at and why these special skills matter with your expertise and work environment. Megan Pratt went from senior PMM to director of PMM and was one step away from a VP position before she decided to go full-time as a fractional PMM. Today, she’s coaching product marketers and helping companies as a fractional PMM. In this episode, we’re covering: Misconceptions we have about going fractional How to find your secret sauce as a PMM How to educate prospects on product marketing Learn how to say no without saying no Building your pipeline as a consultant Common gaps in product marketing So join us, whether you’re a fractional, or in-house hire, and learn about a true expert on how to say no. Timespan: 00:00 Introduction and Hosts' Banter 01:14 Introducing Special Guest Megan Pratt 06:09 The Value of Product Marketing 21:26 Personal Insights and Career Growth 26:25 Transition to Fractional Work 26:31 Challenges and Misconceptions of Going Fractional 30:48 Messaging Best Practices 31:13 Clarifying Roles and Responsibilities 32:23 Setting Boundaries in Freelancing 33:42 The Importance of Saying No 36:34 Building a Freelance Pipeline 50:56 Common Gaps in Product Marketing 59:42 Conclusion and Final Thoughts Show Notes: Product Marketing House (https://www.productmarketinghouse.com/) Megan’s LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/productmarketingmegan/) Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

After 29 episodes, we’re finally closing down our season 2 and we’re taking this opportunity to circle back on why PMMs are misunderstood today in B2B SaaS. Being misunderstood isn’t the problem, it’s the apathy from colleagues and management regarding our roles and responsibilities. But we should be proud of being misfits because it’s our uniqueness that can have a real impact on our jobs. All we need is more influence and less apathy. In this episode, we’re going back on why we started the pod, how we’re researching our market, find new episode topics, and a special way on how you can be on the pod for upcoming seasons: → The key takeaways from this season that every PMM should know → Our thoughts on the future of Product Marketing and what’s on the horizon → What is the misfit madness and how can you be a special guest Tune in for the last time of season 2, and enjoy a monthly break of not hearing us talk about product marketing 🙃 Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timeline: 00:17 - Meet Emma Stratton: Life Coach and Messaging Expert 03:03 - Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 06:45 - Embracing the Misfit Identity in Product Marketing 12:15 - Handling Messaging Challenges and CEO Fears 21:05 - Transitioning to Entrepreneurship: When is the Right Time? 26:50 - Work-Life Harmony: Balancing Energy Drainers and Energizers 32:35 - Avoiding Company Politics and Aligning Teams 38:15 - Real-life Example: Messaging for an Australian Data Company 45:07 - Emma’s Upcoming Book: Make It Punchy 47:10 - Torture Chamber Game: Cringey Marketing Terms 55:00 - Final Thoughts and Staying Connected with Emma   Show Notes: Emma's book: Make It Punchy: How to Write Simple Tech Messaging That Wins Hearts, Minds, and Markets (Pre-order now) (https://www.amazon.com/Make-Punchy-Simple-Messaging-Markets/dp/1774584085/ref=sr_1_1?sr=8-1) Punchy messaging newsletter (https://punchy.co/newsletter/) Follow Emma Stratton on LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/emma-stratton-punchy/) Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps: 01:36 PMM jobs and LinkedIn trends. 03:00 Discussion about job application experiences and interview etiquette. 05:00 Gab shares a story about a go-to-market assignment. 08:00 Eric shares a story about interviewing with a competitor. 12:00 Zach shares a story about a poor recruiting experience. 16:00 Eric discusses a job that ended up being a bad fit. 19:00 Discussion on hiring practices and candidate experiences. 22:00 Importance of clear expectations and roles in hiring. 24:00 The value of specific hiring criteria and trust in the hiring process. 27:00 The benefits of private communities for job searching. 30:00 Gab's experience with irrelevant job postings. 33:00 Eric and Zach discuss the value of consulting and contracting as a career approach. 36:00 Final thoughts on hiring practices and candidate experience. 40:00 Additional anecdotes and reflections on job search experiences. 45:00 Tips for navigating the PMM job market. 50:00 Closing remarks and promotions for the newsletter and sponsors. 52:00 Outro and end of episode.   Show Notes:  ⁠Inc Authority (LLC Formation)⁠ (https://were-not-marketers.simplecast.com/episodes/www.incauthority.com) ⁠Exit Five Community⁠ (https://were-not-marketers.simplecast.com/episodes/www.exitfive.com) ⁠Healthy Competition Community⁠ (https://were-not-marketers.simplecast.com/episodes/www.healthycompetition.co) Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Timestamps 00:43 Introducing of Julien Sauvage 01:57 Are Product Marketers Actually Marketers? 06:41 The Role of Boldness in Marketing 14:06 Event Branding Success at Clari 17:17 The Einstein Smart Speaker Flop 20:24 Reflecting on Dreamforce's Gimmicks 22:38 The Importance of Data in Product Marketing 24:43 Challenges and Realities of PMM 30:31 The Role of Copywriting in PMM 38:59 Final Thoughts and Farewell   Show Notes : Julien’s LinkedIn (https://www.linkedin.com/in/julien-sauvage/) Content That Converts guide (by Devin Reed) (https://convert.thereeder.co/) Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.