Marina Parris on Lessons from Horses: Showing Up Authentically and Powerfully | Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

Description

Marina Parris is a coach who works with horses as her co-facilitators, supporting business leaders to grow in authenticity, emotional intelligence and effectiveness. Having trained as a coach in equine-facilitated learning was with Linda Kohanov, a pioneer in this field, based in Arizona, she draws on nearly two decades of experience with horses to develop leaders who are not only respected but also genuinely followed.

But while today, Marina could not imagine a life without horses, her career started on a very different path. In our conversation she tells the story of her journey from working full time in the corporate world to working full time with horses (and people). You’ll hear her describe some pivotal moments that led her:

To ask big questions like “what do I really want to do in life?”
To let go of everything and step out into the unknown and
To learn to take off her mask and show up authentically and powerfully in everything she does

Go to marinaparris.com to find out more about Marina's work and her two books "A heart for horses" and "Leadership wisdom from horses."

Ruth Kearns Wollmann is an ICF-accredited professional coach and leadership development facilitator with a background as a cognitive psychologist, business executive and organisational leader in corporate and non-profit organisations.

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their personal path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Hello, this is Ruth Kerns-Volman and welcome to Your Path to Success, a podcast created to inspire, encourage and equip you on your leadership journey. Today we have a special dose of heartfelt leadership wisdom from my guest Marina Paris. Marina is a coach who works with horses as her co-facilitators, helping business leaders to grow in authenticity, emotional intelligence and effectiveness. But while Marina's life today revolves around horses, her journey began on a very different path. In our conversation, she shares her remarkable story of transitioning from the corporate world to working full-time with horses and with people. You'll hear Marina talk about pivotal moments that led her to ask big questions like, what do I really want to do in life? To let go of uncertainty and step boldly into the unknown. and to take off her mask to show up authentically and powerfully in every aspect of her life. I hope you enjoy this inspiring interview. So, welcome Marina. We met through the Business Professional Women's Organisation when you came to give a talk one time about the leadership wisdom from horses. And I was so fascinated because I love animals and nature anyway. that I wanted to hear more about your story. So it's great to have you here to talk about what you've learned on your journey.
Speaker #1
Thank you very much, Ruth. Looking back, I can't imagine a life without horses. My life was headed in a totally different direction a long, long, long time ago. It seems like a different lifetime altogether because once horses came into my life, everything changed, and I'm very grateful for those changes. And I'm, yeah. I'm just happy for the opportunity to share that with you or with your listeners this morning.
Speaker #0
Fantastic. So today, what you do is that you are an equine facilitated, you do equine facilitated learning with individuals, companies and teams. What does that look like? What does that mean?
Speaker #1
What does that mean? Instead of a person coming to me. As a coach, and they tell me their problems, I try to find solutions for their problems and help them work through issues. I, in a sense, have the horses with me as co-trainers, so to speak. And it adds a whole new dimension to the coaching experience because they're such sensitive animals. They do things that I couldn't have in my wildest dreams planned for in a session. Just something simple as... the lady we wanted to work on her goal so i said look at your goal and we'll start doing that and the horses are always free during the coaching so in this session we wanted to focus on her goal over there but the horses were standing next to her facing backwards okay so i said is there anything in your past we need to look at that might be preventing you from reaching your goal and that's just one little instant I never would have come across something like that if I hadn't the horse is just thing and you're right there at the issues that need to be addressed.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? What happens in the unspoken space and the horses kind of pointing to that, you know.
Speaker #1
If they pick up on you can't explain it scientifically a lot of it.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But those are the things. But the essence of the coaching of my coaching is to get people to have a heart. based life to have a life that's fulfilling to them and to realize that they have the power and the resources in themselves to get there yeah on the personal level and on the leadership level it's leading in the way that others follow and they're again tapping into the resource that that you have yeah it's not who you are on the outside but who you are on the inside that gives people the reason to follow you by free choice yeah you
Speaker #0
And that's really powerful, isn't it? But as you said, you weren't always doing that, were you? Maybe you weren't always following that path. How did you start off in your professional journey? Because that wasn't your path at all at the beginning, was it?
Speaker #1
No, my path was very strongly influenced by my father, which thankfully he said education is extremely important. So he made sure that my brother and I got it. good university background and all that and then went off into our professional careers and so so i'm very i'm very grateful that for that opportunity but as a kid i always wanted to I'm an outdoor person. I love animals. And I mean, even if I had an office, when I had my office jobs, I always had to have a seat by the window, a cubicle by the window, because so I could be closer to where I really wanted to be. And then I had a series of incidents as life takes us, you know, it's not so clear. I had a lot. Incidents came up where I had a chance to change my career. And I think one of the influencing factors, of course, in the moment, you don't, I didn't connect the dots. But looking back, the fact that my dad passed away when I was 30, and he finished retirement just a year earlier.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
I thought, wow, he's done so much for the family, you know, to give us opportunities in life and done everything. And then just to die of a heart attack. You know, you get this phone call in the morning, living in Switzerland, and he's in the States. finding out that he had a heart attack on the golf course. Afterwards, I realized, hey, do I, what do I really want to do in life? You know, do I want to really work my whole life, wait for retirement and then do what makes me happy? So that looking back was a massive influence subconsciously.
Speaker #0
It was a pivotal moment.
Speaker #1
It was really a pivotal moment.
Speaker #0
And how did you navigate that process of reflection? You said maybe it was unconscious. You said you didn't connect the dots.
Speaker #1
No, but it was there subconsciously. And I had opportunities. I got bored relatively quickly with jobs I had. So every three years I managed to change. And then between two jobs, once I worked for a farm that offered writing for the disabled.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
And what I saw there, what I experienced there and sensed there, I said, it's just something happened inside of me. I couldn't explain it either at the time, but I had this image. I still see these two kids in front of me. One is a girl in a wheelchair. She had, I remember she had black hair. She may have been maybe 10, 12 years old and the horse was just standing there and she was, she had funny sounds coming out of her mouth. She couldn't really articulate and she didn't have much control over her hands, but somehow the horse stood still there and just gave her that space to. to brush him and knowing that a horse not in 99 not a lifetime as a flight animal would put up you know be able to deal with that so what does it take for that horse to in that moment give that young girl what she needs to be able to experience a therapy but a different form of therapy and the second one was this young boy where i was leading the horse and the lady was working with And he also came in a wheelchair. And I thought, wow, what does it do to a person who everybody looks down at you, you know, when you're in a wheelchair? I feel awkward personally when I see people in wheelchairs, but I don't always know how to interact with them. And then to see him shining like a little light up there was just magical because people are looking up to him, you know. What that does with the posture, with everything.
Speaker #0
He rode the horse when he was riding the horse.
Speaker #1
What they usually do is you get somebody from a wheelchair, you can put them on top of a horse and then you guide them. And then the physiotherapist, if you have one, helps them with the posture so they keep their balance and stuff. And those two experiences with those kids in that month, I said, I've got to learn more about this. But I still went back to the corporate world again. And later, a few years later, I had a really fantastic job. But then when I came home from Christmas, I was in San Diego over the holidays, came back to work and they said, you've been made redundant.
Speaker #0
Oh, okay.
Speaker #1
Oh, my God.
Speaker #0
What's the feeling? What was the oh, my God feeling with that?
Speaker #1
Oh, my God feelings. I started crying. I went home and cried. You know, I had a really, all my jobs were fun, you know.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
It was a great opportunity. It was a great company. And, um. The numbers didn't match up, so they had to downsize. And after the crying and getting over it the first couple of weeks, because they then paid me to have three months off, I basically turned my whole life around and said, I'm going to go do what I want with horses. I'm going to take this opportunity.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So it feels like there was a kind of a mourning process. There's a natural process of this was fun. This was my life. Maybe there are other.
Speaker #1
Going in one direction. Yeah. You know, it's not like I was unhappy or something. It was a fun job. I always had great jobs and great people around me.
Speaker #0
Yeah. And so what did it take for you to make that shift?
Speaker #1
It meant letting go of everything I had because I then left for three years abroad.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
I went back to the States again to learn about horses.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
So I basically lived in jeans and cowboy boots for three years on trenches, which was, that's my life. That was really me. I came back. I connected with who I really was. That was the big turning point.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
That was the big turning point. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So you connected with who you really were. You embraced this thing, which had been part of you.
Speaker #1
It was always there. We just covered up with, how should I say? I mean, I'm a coach now, so I may use those coaching terms, but all the layers of conditioning is who you should be in life, who you should do. You should have a family. You should have a career. You know, it's with each of us. We have all this conditioning piled up on top of us, but it's not who we really are. And so when that falls away and you can do what makes you happy.
Speaker #0
Well,
Speaker #1
I think that's a big one.
Speaker #0
It is. And I think it happens to a lot of people at some point in life that something which has been part of a big part of who we are and a part of our, at least our external identity is, I want to say taken away or falls away, you know, goes away. And we have to reposition ourselves or re-examine, you know, who am I really and what am I going to choose now?
Speaker #1
Yeah, you always have a choice.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
You can go back to the old one. I mean, when I lost the job, I could have gone back and just looked for another job. Or you can say, OK, this is a door opener to something new. I mean, and even if it hadn't worked out, not knowing that and just leaving your dreams behind doesn't make sense either. You know, you've got to try it. How are you going to know if you don't try something?
Speaker #0
And yet there's this pull, isn't there? Because I think for many of us, it's this pull of something which is the more accepted, but also more secure route versus the unknown in some respect, whether that's financial or about status or whatever it is for each of us. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Yeah. You have to let go of that. Not knowing where life takes you.
Speaker #0
Yeah. I suppose there are ways back, aren't there?
Speaker #1
You can always go back. I mean, you know, it's always going to be there. The known is always going to be there.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But the unknown, I think that's when you come alive.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
That's when you really come alive in life. Yeah. You have to get over limitations. You have to get over fears. You have to get over a lot of things.
Speaker #0
And so for you. How would you describe this experience of these? How long was it? A few years, you said, where you went back to the US and you trained to work with horses?
Speaker #1
Yeah,
Speaker #0
with cowboy boots and your,
Speaker #1
you know. I mean, that was actually probably the three best years of my life. I had no responsibilities. I could just be me. You know, it was a dream to wake up outside and just spend the whole day with horses. And then you have a tiredness and a satisfaction, which is hard to match.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Which is hard to match. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #0
And I think one of the things that maybe I'm reading into this because I've spoken to you about working with horses, but in that environment, you're very much in the moment.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
You know, you're having to be in the moment. So there's no worrying about the past or the future at that point. It's like, I've taken this time. I'm with the horse. There's nothing I could do apart from being here.
Speaker #1
That was a big gift. That's what makes the quality of the time so nice. Like you said, Ruth, you're in the present moment. And even now, you know, I have my office work I have to do. But then when I go out to the horses, I forget everything. Because they force you in a sense, because of their sheer size and all that, to be in the present, to be in the present moment. And you actually don't want to be anywhere else when you have this quality, this opportunity. It's a big one because a lot of, I think, even myself, In the office world, you know, multitasking, you got lists, you got all that going on. That's stressful. And when that falls away, then you have a different quality of life. I'm always trying to get the quality that I have with the horses so it's not dependent on that and try to bring this quality into my daily life. It's a challenge. It's a challenge.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But like now, because I'm talking to you, it's really, there's nothing else that I'm thinking about. So I really want to give everything I have into our conversation, our time together. Because anything, if I did anything less than that, it would take away from our connection.
Speaker #0
And as we know, it's not more efficient or effective when we're two places at once. We're physically in one place and mentally or emotionally in another. Maybe sometimes we do it as a survival mechanism, but it's not a way of living that brings life in a way.
Speaker #1
It's not our natural state either.
Speaker #0
So you've talked about a few. kind of pivotal moments or how did you then come to build what you do now because you went off to the US and then you you had to kind of design well how am I gonna
Speaker #1
I came back with a horse too that was a life changer this is like a week before the training is over my dear friend Gabi who lives in Austria now and she said why didn't you take Hummer home you guys seem to have such a good relationship I thought, you've got to be kidding. I'm sure they have horses in Europe. You know, I never considered taking one of the young horses home. And then my heart spoke more than my mind. And he came then Easter, Easter 2006. He was brought over to Switzerland in a plane and that whole journey.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Then I started building my business, giving lessons with him, starting to do coaching with him and stuff like that. So I always had like a, I think I was worth maybe 60% on the side. while building the business well and then i went back to the states a couple years later in 2011 to do the official training so to speak as an equine facilitated coach the other part was just intuitive intuitive and then i did an official training for it and i was also able to go back for the states and incorporate that so it was helping horse owners understand their horses better and communicate with them and then the second part of my work was
Speaker #0
building up a coaching practice yeah yeah and so how long did it take you you said at the beginning you were working 60 on the side while building your business how long did it take you before you were able to make this the main thing you you do i
Speaker #1
got help from the outside again the company i was working for was in purchasing at the point and we decided not we decide but the company decided to it was cheaper to produce in asia okay but help them transfer do those transfers there. But in a sense, the job was redundant after a while. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So it's like you made yourself redundant in a way. I know,
Speaker #1
crazy as it sounds, crazy as it sounds. And that's when I made the jump into the self-employment.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
I don't know if I would have done it just like that, but I said, I'm going to take this chance again.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Jump into the unknown, which you had addressed earlier.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So I think, you know, part of your story, isn't it, is when these things come up, which on one level are hard, working through it so that you can see what good can come out of that and how you want to, yeah, how you want to dance with that, how you want to use that as a springboard for something else.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and there's a lot of personal development involved. It's not, to me, having your own business for me was not just having the business because in a company, I don't know, you have somebody who does the HR, you have somebody who does the IT, you have somebody. And all of a sudden, you're no longer the company when you say, hey, I'm so-and-so. I work for this company. I had to and still sometimes deal with the visibility issues because it was easy to be the assistant or right hand of somebody and lead projects in the name of a company. But once you go out with your own name and everything with a whole different feeling and to overcome some of those, some of the personal issues I had, like being able to set boundaries and stuff, those showed up in. work situations yeah wow and I have a feeling probably the horses helped you with that too oh totally they're my best teachers in life tell me a bit more because I know that you've from other conversations we've had that you've had to change your way of being to be able to do this work with horses what what have horses taught you about leadership the biggest one before the leadership is the being authentic we had touched on the conditioning before And all of us are conditioned. And in my opinion, and myself included, when I say this, we have a mask on in life. Yeah. We have a mask. And under that mask, we could have sadness. We could have anger. We could have frustration. We could have anxiety. We can have grief and all that. And to function in today's world, everybody looks for that conformity and acceptance. And how do you conform? You put a mask on and hide who you really are. and the horses are just the opposite they seek authenticity and so my horse hummer the when I brought over, he's really very picky on that. I mean, he knows exactly whether I'm really looking forward to what we're doing or I'm just putting a mask on and so he just walks away.
Speaker #0
He just walks away.
Speaker #1
He just walks away. Because I give my horses a choice. They're not in a box. They live in an open pasture. And if how I'm showing up doesn't fit, then he'll walk away, he'll walk off. And so I've really, it's not like I had to, if I was angry or upset from what was going on before, it's not like I had to change it and just say it doesn't exist. I just had to accept that it was there. That's what they're requiring of us, just to say accept the fact that you are sad, accept the fact that you're frustrated or mad or something else going on in your life.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And... I had to learn with river dance is also big help to be in my heart, to do things from the heart. Because that transfers to me the leadership. If I'm not having fun what I'm doing with the horses, why should they want to be with me and then do something that I want to do? Then it's just the mechanical. We're going through the motions, as you might say. And we find a lot of people doing that at work. They've turned into robots, but they're not. passionate about it so I've I really had to say okay what I really enjoy doing with horses because that when I do stuff out of what I have fun what comes out of the heart then it has like a magnetic effect on others and so that's what I realized in terms of authenticity and coming from the heart and being passionate or having fun what I do there's things like you Sending the horse in a circle on a lunge, I think, is silly stuff. It doesn't come from the heart. But I had a young gal who worked with my horse, and she loved to do that. So the horses had a happy person doing the work in the arena. Yeah. And I had fun going jogging with them, doing trail rides and, you know, free work where they weren't liberty work.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
So when it comes to leadership, going back to your question, Just it's important to be happy in what you do, because then you can draw others automatically into your. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah, it does. I'm making some connections in my head. The first is with your own journey. And you talked about the challenge when you have your own company or your own business that you have to show up. You can't hide behind the name of the company or someone else. Yes. And so I'm making that connection there that when you are authentic, then do you feel more comfortable being visible or being who you are?
Speaker #1
More and more. I mean, it's a journey. It's still a journey that I'm on. Even if I coach in these areas, it doesn't mean I've got it all sorted out myself. But I have an extremely high level of self-awareness because of the work with the horses. Because I'm always getting a one-to-one feedback. everything mentally emotionally and physically I get a feedback from them that's why the self awareness even though I may not I still have my struggles but the self-awareness is relatively high because I say okay that's something you need to look at or address I can't hide from myself anymore which works in the human world but not with horses when maybe when you have kids and stuff they also tell you how they see the situation or how they feel about how you're showing up exactly you have kids you know
Speaker #0
I was saying to someone in a workshop the other day that my daughter said to me, when you react like that, you make me feel like I've done something wrong. And the thing that was bothering me was not her. Yeah. So it showed me that she was, however much I tried to separate it out, she was sensing anyway what I was carrying.
Speaker #1
Exactly.
Speaker #0
And I think our colleagues do too. I just wonder. This is the other thing that was going on in my head as you were speaking. I wonder how accepting humans are compared to horses. We believe that... I work a lot on emotions and processing of emotions. And I feel that we often think it's unacceptable to have emotions or we try to put a lid on our emotions. But it's not like people can't sense that something is up. And I'm wondering how... Your work with horses has helped people with that, with the, let me accept that it's here. And then that takes away a lot of the weight, I think, of.
Speaker #1
needing to contain something or needing to express it in a certain way i mean yeah there's two components to two components up as you said people sense it yeah it's not only the horses from the from the neurosciences when you suppress an emotion emotion is an energy that wants to come up and as soon as you suppress it saying oh i better behave this way with food i can't say that with food then you put a lid on it and your blood pressure goes up your tension and that's what horses pick up on and so that means They don't know what's going on, but the same thing happens in their body. That's the crazy thing. They will also get tense and their blood pressure will go up. And as soon as you acknowledge, hey, I'm feeling sad today or I'm angry, like you said, even just saying it, it's a sense of relief throughout my body. And it will do the same to a horse and the same to a human. And in leadership workshops, people get sent there. And there are people that are scared, which is fine, or nervous. and they will never say it in the group but when we do the one-on-one work with a horse they all of a sudden say hey i'm scared of horses and that moment the horse will walk up to them yeah to give you not just to show you by just acknowledging it without
Speaker #0
changing the emotion yeah yeah i think there's such power isn't there in again this is coachy speak but we talk just about naming or articulating what's going on just saying I noticed this. It's not a judgment. It's not, you know, I noticed this tension. It immediately gives space for something to move that was blocked before.
Speaker #1
And it has a physiological effect on yourself and all those around you when you suppress an emotion.
Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm feeling like we need to start slowly moving towards a close to our discussion.
Speaker #1
That's all good.
Speaker #0
To our discussion. Is there anything else, any other stories you want to tell us about the impact that horses have had on you or on people you've worked with?
Speaker #1
A lot of it comes down to what you talked about before, the emotions and acknowledging who you are. Said one lady in a workshop, there's an exercise called the heart's desire. And she just her only wish was to be happy again in life. And so I put her in the arena. by herself with this beautiful warm blood Henry's beautiful boy huge huge and she stood in the middle of the arena it was funny and Henry was to the left of her standing and then he would walk stop in front of her stand for a few seconds then continue on turn around and then come back from the other side and stop in front of her you couldn't figure out what was going on as an outsider and then we asked her when she came out of the arena and stuff she was happy camper she was happy and she said you wouldn't believe it but henry every time he passed by and stopped he took a piece of my sadness away from me and now i felt what it's like to be happy again wow yeah i've had some just wild experiences yeah that's a goosebumps moment yeah Yeah, that's one that I, horses will do things that you can't even in your wildest dreams imagine. It's like the lady where I talked to you about before who looks, who wanted to work on something in front, but the horses were faced the other way. So we had to look at something in her past, which dealt with issues for her mother. And when we had worked through all that, you wouldn't believe it. The horses were facing the direction of the goal again. That's the power of this work, which you could. which I could never in a coaching session come to the issues that quickly. And they touch on issues, what's relevant. You know, people may have a bunch of stuff to work on, but the horse is focused on what needs to be addressed right now.
Speaker #0
Yeah. And a lot of it is getting out of the head, like we said.
Speaker #1
Everything.
Speaker #0
With the body and getting out of the figuring it out and what I should say and all of that.
Speaker #1
So in terms of advice? whatever people moving forward is to recognize that you're a sentient being you're not a head being you're sent a feeling being and get in touch with those feelings because those feelings will guide you through life at the end of the day your
Speaker #0
heart will guide you through your life if you start reconnecting with its with its wisdom yeah our emotions are an important part of who we are and they are expressing something that we have not yet caught up with. In our conscious mind sometimes,
Speaker #1
yeah.
Speaker #0
So Marina, if you look back now over your life and how has your definition of success changed over time?
Speaker #1
It may sound cliche, but it was more oriented toward the outside world before, to who I am and where I stand and all that kind of stuff. And now I'm totally or more so towards the inside. I just my goal is to be happy. and to share what I have, the gifts that I have with people. And that shows up in my, I feel that there's a direct connection to my health. You know, when you're self-employed, yes, it's hard. Yes, it's challenging. But there's a certain amount of power that comes and it keeps you healthy because you're happy. You know, when we get sick and stuff, those are all just signs saying something is out of sync. You're not listening to your... yourself some or when you're unhappy or when you're sick and so that's why I would advise people to follow their heart to do what makes them happy as much as they can and it's a paradigm shift isn't it from we talked at the beginning about your father retiring
Speaker #0
working hard you know all his life for his family and for all good reasons and then all the good reasons right and then dying on the golf course you towards the beginning of his retirement and the paradigm shifters living a life an expansive life over a longer period which is healthy to be able to give that away also rather
Speaker #1
than wearing ourselves out with it yeah and i would really encourage young people to you know follow the direction that makes them happy as well you The parents always want the best. They may think, well, your safety, you know, it's their paradigms they're putting on their kids. And they're well-intentioned. And from the heart, there's nothing wrong with that. But just realize, is it your expectation or is your kid maybe wants to be a gardener? Can you live with that if he wants to be a gardener? My dad couldn't have lived with the fact that I wanted to be a photographer for National Geographic. You know, just be outdoors and take pictures of animals. but a lot of things don't fit in our conditioning and those that's why a lot of people have their midlife crisis they go is this what life is really about indeed and when you're experiencing that i think we
Speaker #0
will find our ways what i'm hearing from you is that horses and animals in general they give you the space to experience these things in a non-judgmental way it's a safe you know they're a safe safe haven for feedback and for be and for experiencing the being in a way that's sometimes difficult with humans awesome
Speaker #1
yeah we have stories and they don't have stories yeah and it's you yeah you said it perfectly people are safe emotionally safe and physically safe We don't have that in families. We don't have it in partnerships, let alone at work sometimes.
Speaker #0
Well, Marina, thank you so much for sharing with me, with us. Tell people how they can get in touch with you and hear more about the work you do.
Speaker #1
I have a website of the same name. It's nice. It's marinaparis.com. It's in two languages, German and English, and there you'll find more information about the work. I've also put out two books and a magazine. So there's a lot of resources on the website as well, blogs and stuff. So if you're new to horses, it's a great way to just step in without having to go to a farm to really see one. You know, if you're scared or something, you can still profit from everything else without ever going to the horse farm.
Speaker #0
Great. Well, thank you very much and all the best.
Speaker #1
Thank you. It was wonderful talking to you, Ruth. Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker #0
Thank you. Talking to Marina was a true delight. She's so genuinely present and connected, and she shared such rich wisdom from her own journey and her work with horses. I wonder what resonated most with you from this conversation. Perhaps it was Marina's courage to let go of society's definitions of success and to step into the unknown in pursuit of her own fulfilment and calling. Perhaps it was her reflections on authentic leadership, taking off her masks. being honest about our feelings and leading with integrity. Or maybe it made you realise you could benefit from the kind of safe space and honest reflection that horses provide in her work. I'm recording this in December 2024 as the year draws to a close. And it's a natural time to reflect on where you are in your journey and on the challenges and breakthroughs of the past year. So I want to encourage you to hold some safe space for yourself to do just that. To dare to consider. what you truly want to do with your one wild and precious life. Holding space could mean sitting by the fire with a cup of tea and a journal, walking in nature or talking to a trusted friend. Whatever works for you, trust that you know what you need and hold that space with compassion, curiosity and courage. Finally, if you feel you need support, then don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and visit my website yourpastorsuccess.ch to learn more about my work and my upcoming events.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

Your Path to Success Podcast is here to inspire, encourage and equip you on your personal leadership journey. On this podcast you’ll hear: 💡Personal stories and life lessons from accomplished leaders💡Leadership growth case studies and 💡Real-life examples of how to apply evidence-based techniques to grow your own leadership impact and presence.

Ruth is an ICF-accredited professional coach and leadership development facilitator with a background as a cognitive psychologist, business executive and organisational leader in corporate and non-profit organisations.

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

To ask big questions like “what do I really want to do in life?”
To let go of everything and step out into the unknown and
To learn to take off her mask and show up authentically and powerfully in everything she does

Go to marinaparris.com to find out more about Marina's work and her two books "A heart for horses" and "Leadership wisdom from horses."

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their personal path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Hello, this is Ruth Kerns-Volman and welcome to Your Path to Success, a podcast created to inspire, encourage and equip you on your leadership journey. Today we have a special dose of heartfelt leadership wisdom from my guest Marina Paris. Marina is a coach who works with horses as her co-facilitators, helping business leaders to grow in authenticity, emotional intelligence and effectiveness. But while Marina's life today revolves around horses, her journey began on a very different path. In our conversation, she shares her remarkable story of transitioning from the corporate world to working full-time with horses and with people. You'll hear Marina talk about pivotal moments that led her to ask big questions like, what do I really want to do in life? To let go of uncertainty and step boldly into the unknown. and to take off her mask to show up authentically and powerfully in every aspect of her life. I hope you enjoy this inspiring interview. So, welcome Marina. We met through the Business Professional Women's Organisation when you came to give a talk one time about the leadership wisdom from horses. And I was so fascinated because I love animals and nature anyway. that I wanted to hear more about your story. So it's great to have you here to talk about what you've learned on your journey.
Speaker #1
Thank you very much, Ruth. Looking back, I can't imagine a life without horses. My life was headed in a totally different direction a long, long, long time ago. It seems like a different lifetime altogether because once horses came into my life, everything changed, and I'm very grateful for those changes. And I'm, yeah. I'm just happy for the opportunity to share that with you or with your listeners this morning.
Speaker #0
Fantastic. So today, what you do is that you are an equine facilitated, you do equine facilitated learning with individuals, companies and teams. What does that look like? What does that mean?
Speaker #1
What does that mean? Instead of a person coming to me. As a coach, and they tell me their problems, I try to find solutions for their problems and help them work through issues. I, in a sense, have the horses with me as co-trainers, so to speak. And it adds a whole new dimension to the coaching experience because they're such sensitive animals. They do things that I couldn't have in my wildest dreams planned for in a session. Just something simple as... the lady we wanted to work on her goal so i said look at your goal and we'll start doing that and the horses are always free during the coaching so in this session we wanted to focus on her goal over there but the horses were standing next to her facing backwards okay so i said is there anything in your past we need to look at that might be preventing you from reaching your goal and that's just one little instant I never would have come across something like that if I hadn't the horse is just thing and you're right there at the issues that need to be addressed.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? What happens in the unspoken space and the horses kind of pointing to that, you know.
Speaker #1
If they pick up on you can't explain it scientifically a lot of it.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But those are the things. But the essence of the coaching of my coaching is to get people to have a heart. based life to have a life that's fulfilling to them and to realize that they have the power and the resources in themselves to get there yeah on the personal level and on the leadership level it's leading in the way that others follow and they're again tapping into the resource that that you have yeah it's not who you are on the outside but who you are on the inside that gives people the reason to follow you by free choice yeah you
Speaker #0
And that's really powerful, isn't it? But as you said, you weren't always doing that, were you? Maybe you weren't always following that path. How did you start off in your professional journey? Because that wasn't your path at all at the beginning, was it?
Speaker #1
No, my path was very strongly influenced by my father, which thankfully he said education is extremely important. So he made sure that my brother and I got it. good university background and all that and then went off into our professional careers and so so i'm very i'm very grateful that for that opportunity but as a kid i always wanted to I'm an outdoor person. I love animals. And I mean, even if I had an office, when I had my office jobs, I always had to have a seat by the window, a cubicle by the window, because so I could be closer to where I really wanted to be. And then I had a series of incidents as life takes us, you know, it's not so clear. I had a lot. Incidents came up where I had a chance to change my career. And I think one of the influencing factors, of course, in the moment, you don't, I didn't connect the dots. But looking back, the fact that my dad passed away when I was 30, and he finished retirement just a year earlier.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
I thought, wow, he's done so much for the family, you know, to give us opportunities in life and done everything. And then just to die of a heart attack. You know, you get this phone call in the morning, living in Switzerland, and he's in the States. finding out that he had a heart attack on the golf course. Afterwards, I realized, hey, do I, what do I really want to do in life? You know, do I want to really work my whole life, wait for retirement and then do what makes me happy? So that looking back was a massive influence subconsciously.
Speaker #0
It was a pivotal moment.
Speaker #1
It was really a pivotal moment.
Speaker #0
And how did you navigate that process of reflection? You said maybe it was unconscious. You said you didn't connect the dots.
Speaker #1
No, but it was there subconsciously. And I had opportunities. I got bored relatively quickly with jobs I had. So every three years I managed to change. And then between two jobs, once I worked for a farm that offered writing for the disabled.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
And what I saw there, what I experienced there and sensed there, I said, it's just something happened inside of me. I couldn't explain it either at the time, but I had this image. I still see these two kids in front of me. One is a girl in a wheelchair. She had, I remember she had black hair. She may have been maybe 10, 12 years old and the horse was just standing there and she was, she had funny sounds coming out of her mouth. She couldn't really articulate and she didn't have much control over her hands, but somehow the horse stood still there and just gave her that space to. to brush him and knowing that a horse not in 99 not a lifetime as a flight animal would put up you know be able to deal with that so what does it take for that horse to in that moment give that young girl what she needs to be able to experience a therapy but a different form of therapy and the second one was this young boy where i was leading the horse and the lady was working with And he also came in a wheelchair. And I thought, wow, what does it do to a person who everybody looks down at you, you know, when you're in a wheelchair? I feel awkward personally when I see people in wheelchairs, but I don't always know how to interact with them. And then to see him shining like a little light up there was just magical because people are looking up to him, you know. What that does with the posture, with everything.
Speaker #0
He rode the horse when he was riding the horse.
Speaker #1
What they usually do is you get somebody from a wheelchair, you can put them on top of a horse and then you guide them. And then the physiotherapist, if you have one, helps them with the posture so they keep their balance and stuff. And those two experiences with those kids in that month, I said, I've got to learn more about this. But I still went back to the corporate world again. And later, a few years later, I had a really fantastic job. But then when I came home from Christmas, I was in San Diego over the holidays, came back to work and they said, you've been made redundant.
Speaker #0
Oh, okay.
Speaker #1
Oh, my God.
Speaker #0
What's the feeling? What was the oh, my God feeling with that?
Speaker #1
Oh, my God feelings. I started crying. I went home and cried. You know, I had a really, all my jobs were fun, you know.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
It was a great opportunity. It was a great company. And, um. The numbers didn't match up, so they had to downsize. And after the crying and getting over it the first couple of weeks, because they then paid me to have three months off, I basically turned my whole life around and said, I'm going to go do what I want with horses. I'm going to take this opportunity.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So it feels like there was a kind of a mourning process. There's a natural process of this was fun. This was my life. Maybe there are other.
Speaker #1
Going in one direction. Yeah. You know, it's not like I was unhappy or something. It was a fun job. I always had great jobs and great people around me.
Speaker #0
Yeah. And so what did it take for you to make that shift?
Speaker #1
It meant letting go of everything I had because I then left for three years abroad.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
I went back to the States again to learn about horses.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
So I basically lived in jeans and cowboy boots for three years on trenches, which was, that's my life. That was really me. I came back. I connected with who I really was. That was the big turning point.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
That was the big turning point. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So you connected with who you really were. You embraced this thing, which had been part of you.
Speaker #1
It was always there. We just covered up with, how should I say? I mean, I'm a coach now, so I may use those coaching terms, but all the layers of conditioning is who you should be in life, who you should do. You should have a family. You should have a career. You know, it's with each of us. We have all this conditioning piled up on top of us, but it's not who we really are. And so when that falls away and you can do what makes you happy.
Speaker #0
Well,
Speaker #1
I think that's a big one.
Speaker #0
It is. And I think it happens to a lot of people at some point in life that something which has been part of a big part of who we are and a part of our, at least our external identity is, I want to say taken away or falls away, you know, goes away. And we have to reposition ourselves or re-examine, you know, who am I really and what am I going to choose now?
Speaker #1
Yeah, you always have a choice.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
You can go back to the old one. I mean, when I lost the job, I could have gone back and just looked for another job. Or you can say, OK, this is a door opener to something new. I mean, and even if it hadn't worked out, not knowing that and just leaving your dreams behind doesn't make sense either. You know, you've got to try it. How are you going to know if you don't try something?
Speaker #0
And yet there's this pull, isn't there? Because I think for many of us, it's this pull of something which is the more accepted, but also more secure route versus the unknown in some respect, whether that's financial or about status or whatever it is for each of us. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Yeah. You have to let go of that. Not knowing where life takes you.
Speaker #0
Yeah. I suppose there are ways back, aren't there?
Speaker #1
You can always go back. I mean, you know, it's always going to be there. The known is always going to be there.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But the unknown, I think that's when you come alive.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
That's when you really come alive in life. Yeah. You have to get over limitations. You have to get over fears. You have to get over a lot of things.
Speaker #0
And so for you. How would you describe this experience of these? How long was it? A few years, you said, where you went back to the US and you trained to work with horses?
Speaker #1
Yeah,
Speaker #0
with cowboy boots and your,
Speaker #1
you know. I mean, that was actually probably the three best years of my life. I had no responsibilities. I could just be me. You know, it was a dream to wake up outside and just spend the whole day with horses. And then you have a tiredness and a satisfaction, which is hard to match.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Which is hard to match. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #0
And I think one of the things that maybe I'm reading into this because I've spoken to you about working with horses, but in that environment, you're very much in the moment.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
You know, you're having to be in the moment. So there's no worrying about the past or the future at that point. It's like, I've taken this time. I'm with the horse. There's nothing I could do apart from being here.
Speaker #1
That was a big gift. That's what makes the quality of the time so nice. Like you said, Ruth, you're in the present moment. And even now, you know, I have my office work I have to do. But then when I go out to the horses, I forget everything. Because they force you in a sense, because of their sheer size and all that, to be in the present, to be in the present moment. And you actually don't want to be anywhere else when you have this quality, this opportunity. It's a big one because a lot of, I think, even myself, In the office world, you know, multitasking, you got lists, you got all that going on. That's stressful. And when that falls away, then you have a different quality of life. I'm always trying to get the quality that I have with the horses so it's not dependent on that and try to bring this quality into my daily life. It's a challenge. It's a challenge.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But like now, because I'm talking to you, it's really, there's nothing else that I'm thinking about. So I really want to give everything I have into our conversation, our time together. Because anything, if I did anything less than that, it would take away from our connection.
Speaker #0
And as we know, it's not more efficient or effective when we're two places at once. We're physically in one place and mentally or emotionally in another. Maybe sometimes we do it as a survival mechanism, but it's not a way of living that brings life in a way.
Speaker #1
It's not our natural state either.
Speaker #0
So you've talked about a few. kind of pivotal moments or how did you then come to build what you do now because you went off to the US and then you you had to kind of design well how am I gonna
Speaker #1
I came back with a horse too that was a life changer this is like a week before the training is over my dear friend Gabi who lives in Austria now and she said why didn't you take Hummer home you guys seem to have such a good relationship I thought, you've got to be kidding. I'm sure they have horses in Europe. You know, I never considered taking one of the young horses home. And then my heart spoke more than my mind. And he came then Easter, Easter 2006. He was brought over to Switzerland in a plane and that whole journey.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Then I started building my business, giving lessons with him, starting to do coaching with him and stuff like that. So I always had like a, I think I was worth maybe 60% on the side. while building the business well and then i went back to the states a couple years later in 2011 to do the official training so to speak as an equine facilitated coach the other part was just intuitive intuitive and then i did an official training for it and i was also able to go back for the states and incorporate that so it was helping horse owners understand their horses better and communicate with them and then the second part of my work was
Speaker #0
building up a coaching practice yeah yeah and so how long did it take you you said at the beginning you were working 60 on the side while building your business how long did it take you before you were able to make this the main thing you you do i
Speaker #1
got help from the outside again the company i was working for was in purchasing at the point and we decided not we decide but the company decided to it was cheaper to produce in asia okay but help them transfer do those transfers there. But in a sense, the job was redundant after a while. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So it's like you made yourself redundant in a way. I know,
Speaker #1
crazy as it sounds, crazy as it sounds. And that's when I made the jump into the self-employment.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
I don't know if I would have done it just like that, but I said, I'm going to take this chance again.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Jump into the unknown, which you had addressed earlier.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So I think, you know, part of your story, isn't it, is when these things come up, which on one level are hard, working through it so that you can see what good can come out of that and how you want to, yeah, how you want to dance with that, how you want to use that as a springboard for something else.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and there's a lot of personal development involved. It's not, to me, having your own business for me was not just having the business because in a company, I don't know, you have somebody who does the HR, you have somebody who does the IT, you have somebody. And all of a sudden, you're no longer the company when you say, hey, I'm so-and-so. I work for this company. I had to and still sometimes deal with the visibility issues because it was easy to be the assistant or right hand of somebody and lead projects in the name of a company. But once you go out with your own name and everything with a whole different feeling and to overcome some of those, some of the personal issues I had, like being able to set boundaries and stuff, those showed up in. work situations yeah wow and I have a feeling probably the horses helped you with that too oh totally they're my best teachers in life tell me a bit more because I know that you've from other conversations we've had that you've had to change your way of being to be able to do this work with horses what what have horses taught you about leadership the biggest one before the leadership is the being authentic we had touched on the conditioning before And all of us are conditioned. And in my opinion, and myself included, when I say this, we have a mask on in life. Yeah. We have a mask. And under that mask, we could have sadness. We could have anger. We could have frustration. We could have anxiety. We can have grief and all that. And to function in today's world, everybody looks for that conformity and acceptance. And how do you conform? You put a mask on and hide who you really are. and the horses are just the opposite they seek authenticity and so my horse hummer the when I brought over, he's really very picky on that. I mean, he knows exactly whether I'm really looking forward to what we're doing or I'm just putting a mask on and so he just walks away.
Speaker #0
He just walks away.
Speaker #1
He just walks away. Because I give my horses a choice. They're not in a box. They live in an open pasture. And if how I'm showing up doesn't fit, then he'll walk away, he'll walk off. And so I've really, it's not like I had to, if I was angry or upset from what was going on before, it's not like I had to change it and just say it doesn't exist. I just had to accept that it was there. That's what they're requiring of us, just to say accept the fact that you are sad, accept the fact that you're frustrated or mad or something else going on in your life.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And... I had to learn with river dance is also big help to be in my heart, to do things from the heart. Because that transfers to me the leadership. If I'm not having fun what I'm doing with the horses, why should they want to be with me and then do something that I want to do? Then it's just the mechanical. We're going through the motions, as you might say. And we find a lot of people doing that at work. They've turned into robots, but they're not. passionate about it so I've I really had to say okay what I really enjoy doing with horses because that when I do stuff out of what I have fun what comes out of the heart then it has like a magnetic effect on others and so that's what I realized in terms of authenticity and coming from the heart and being passionate or having fun what I do there's things like you Sending the horse in a circle on a lunge, I think, is silly stuff. It doesn't come from the heart. But I had a young gal who worked with my horse, and she loved to do that. So the horses had a happy person doing the work in the arena. Yeah. And I had fun going jogging with them, doing trail rides and, you know, free work where they weren't liberty work.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
So when it comes to leadership, going back to your question, Just it's important to be happy in what you do, because then you can draw others automatically into your. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah, it does. I'm making some connections in my head. The first is with your own journey. And you talked about the challenge when you have your own company or your own business that you have to show up. You can't hide behind the name of the company or someone else. Yes. And so I'm making that connection there that when you are authentic, then do you feel more comfortable being visible or being who you are?
Speaker #1
More and more. I mean, it's a journey. It's still a journey that I'm on. Even if I coach in these areas, it doesn't mean I've got it all sorted out myself. But I have an extremely high level of self-awareness because of the work with the horses. Because I'm always getting a one-to-one feedback. everything mentally emotionally and physically I get a feedback from them that's why the self awareness even though I may not I still have my struggles but the self-awareness is relatively high because I say okay that's something you need to look at or address I can't hide from myself anymore which works in the human world but not with horses when maybe when you have kids and stuff they also tell you how they see the situation or how they feel about how you're showing up exactly you have kids you know
Speaker #0
I was saying to someone in a workshop the other day that my daughter said to me, when you react like that, you make me feel like I've done something wrong. And the thing that was bothering me was not her. Yeah. So it showed me that she was, however much I tried to separate it out, she was sensing anyway what I was carrying.
Speaker #1
Exactly.
Speaker #0
And I think our colleagues do too. I just wonder. This is the other thing that was going on in my head as you were speaking. I wonder how accepting humans are compared to horses. We believe that... I work a lot on emotions and processing of emotions. And I feel that we often think it's unacceptable to have emotions or we try to put a lid on our emotions. But it's not like people can't sense that something is up. And I'm wondering how... Your work with horses has helped people with that, with the, let me accept that it's here. And then that takes away a lot of the weight, I think, of.
Speaker #1
needing to contain something or needing to express it in a certain way i mean yeah there's two components to two components up as you said people sense it yeah it's not only the horses from the from the neurosciences when you suppress an emotion emotion is an energy that wants to come up and as soon as you suppress it saying oh i better behave this way with food i can't say that with food then you put a lid on it and your blood pressure goes up your tension and that's what horses pick up on and so that means They don't know what's going on, but the same thing happens in their body. That's the crazy thing. They will also get tense and their blood pressure will go up. And as soon as you acknowledge, hey, I'm feeling sad today or I'm angry, like you said, even just saying it, it's a sense of relief throughout my body. And it will do the same to a horse and the same to a human. And in leadership workshops, people get sent there. And there are people that are scared, which is fine, or nervous. and they will never say it in the group but when we do the one-on-one work with a horse they all of a sudden say hey i'm scared of horses and that moment the horse will walk up to them yeah to give you not just to show you by just acknowledging it without
Speaker #0
changing the emotion yeah yeah i think there's such power isn't there in again this is coachy speak but we talk just about naming or articulating what's going on just saying I noticed this. It's not a judgment. It's not, you know, I noticed this tension. It immediately gives space for something to move that was blocked before.
Speaker #1
And it has a physiological effect on yourself and all those around you when you suppress an emotion.
Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm feeling like we need to start slowly moving towards a close to our discussion.
Speaker #1
That's all good.
Speaker #0
To our discussion. Is there anything else, any other stories you want to tell us about the impact that horses have had on you or on people you've worked with?
Speaker #1
A lot of it comes down to what you talked about before, the emotions and acknowledging who you are. Said one lady in a workshop, there's an exercise called the heart's desire. And she just her only wish was to be happy again in life. And so I put her in the arena. by herself with this beautiful warm blood Henry's beautiful boy huge huge and she stood in the middle of the arena it was funny and Henry was to the left of her standing and then he would walk stop in front of her stand for a few seconds then continue on turn around and then come back from the other side and stop in front of her you couldn't figure out what was going on as an outsider and then we asked her when she came out of the arena and stuff she was happy camper she was happy and she said you wouldn't believe it but henry every time he passed by and stopped he took a piece of my sadness away from me and now i felt what it's like to be happy again wow yeah i've had some just wild experiences yeah that's a goosebumps moment yeah Yeah, that's one that I, horses will do things that you can't even in your wildest dreams imagine. It's like the lady where I talked to you about before who looks, who wanted to work on something in front, but the horses were faced the other way. So we had to look at something in her past, which dealt with issues for her mother. And when we had worked through all that, you wouldn't believe it. The horses were facing the direction of the goal again. That's the power of this work, which you could. which I could never in a coaching session come to the issues that quickly. And they touch on issues, what's relevant. You know, people may have a bunch of stuff to work on, but the horse is focused on what needs to be addressed right now.
Speaker #0
Yeah. And a lot of it is getting out of the head, like we said.
Speaker #1
Everything.
Speaker #0
With the body and getting out of the figuring it out and what I should say and all of that.
Speaker #1
So in terms of advice? whatever people moving forward is to recognize that you're a sentient being you're not a head being you're sent a feeling being and get in touch with those feelings because those feelings will guide you through life at the end of the day your
Speaker #0
heart will guide you through your life if you start reconnecting with its with its wisdom yeah our emotions are an important part of who we are and they are expressing something that we have not yet caught up with. In our conscious mind sometimes,
Speaker #1
yeah.
Speaker #0
So Marina, if you look back now over your life and how has your definition of success changed over time?
Speaker #1
It may sound cliche, but it was more oriented toward the outside world before, to who I am and where I stand and all that kind of stuff. And now I'm totally or more so towards the inside. I just my goal is to be happy. and to share what I have, the gifts that I have with people. And that shows up in my, I feel that there's a direct connection to my health. You know, when you're self-employed, yes, it's hard. Yes, it's challenging. But there's a certain amount of power that comes and it keeps you healthy because you're happy. You know, when we get sick and stuff, those are all just signs saying something is out of sync. You're not listening to your... yourself some or when you're unhappy or when you're sick and so that's why I would advise people to follow their heart to do what makes them happy as much as they can and it's a paradigm shift isn't it from we talked at the beginning about your father retiring
Speaker #0
working hard you know all his life for his family and for all good reasons and then all the good reasons right and then dying on the golf course you towards the beginning of his retirement and the paradigm shifters living a life an expansive life over a longer period which is healthy to be able to give that away also rather
Speaker #1
than wearing ourselves out with it yeah and i would really encourage young people to you know follow the direction that makes them happy as well you The parents always want the best. They may think, well, your safety, you know, it's their paradigms they're putting on their kids. And they're well-intentioned. And from the heart, there's nothing wrong with that. But just realize, is it your expectation or is your kid maybe wants to be a gardener? Can you live with that if he wants to be a gardener? My dad couldn't have lived with the fact that I wanted to be a photographer for National Geographic. You know, just be outdoors and take pictures of animals. but a lot of things don't fit in our conditioning and those that's why a lot of people have their midlife crisis they go is this what life is really about indeed and when you're experiencing that i think we
Speaker #0
will find our ways what i'm hearing from you is that horses and animals in general they give you the space to experience these things in a non-judgmental way it's a safe you know they're a safe safe haven for feedback and for be and for experiencing the being in a way that's sometimes difficult with humans awesome
Speaker #1
yeah we have stories and they don't have stories yeah and it's you yeah you said it perfectly people are safe emotionally safe and physically safe We don't have that in families. We don't have it in partnerships, let alone at work sometimes.
Speaker #0
Well, Marina, thank you so much for sharing with me, with us. Tell people how they can get in touch with you and hear more about the work you do.
Speaker #1
I have a website of the same name. It's nice. It's marinaparis.com. It's in two languages, German and English, and there you'll find more information about the work. I've also put out two books and a magazine. So there's a lot of resources on the website as well, blogs and stuff. So if you're new to horses, it's a great way to just step in without having to go to a farm to really see one. You know, if you're scared or something, you can still profit from everything else without ever going to the horse farm.
Speaker #0
Great. Well, thank you very much and all the best.
Speaker #1
Thank you. It was wonderful talking to you, Ruth. Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker #0
Thank you. Talking to Marina was a true delight. She's so genuinely present and connected, and she shared such rich wisdom from her own journey and her work with horses. I wonder what resonated most with you from this conversation. Perhaps it was Marina's courage to let go of society's definitions of success and to step into the unknown in pursuit of her own fulfilment and calling. Perhaps it was her reflections on authentic leadership, taking off her masks. being honest about our feelings and leading with integrity. Or maybe it made you realise you could benefit from the kind of safe space and honest reflection that horses provide in her work. I'm recording this in December 2024 as the year draws to a close. And it's a natural time to reflect on where you are in your journey and on the challenges and breakthroughs of the past year. So I want to encourage you to hold some safe space for yourself to do just that. To dare to consider. what you truly want to do with your one wild and precious life. Holding space could mean sitting by the fire with a cup of tea and a journal, walking in nature or talking to a trusted friend. Whatever works for you, trust that you know what you need and hold that space with compassion, curiosity and courage. Finally, if you feel you need support, then don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and visit my website yourpastorsuccess.ch to learn more about my work and my upcoming events.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Embed

You may also like

Description

To ask big questions like “what do I really want to do in life?”
To let go of everything and step out into the unknown and
To learn to take off her mask and show up authentically and powerfully in everything she does

Go to marinaparris.com to find out more about Marina's work and her two books "A heart for horses" and "Leadership wisdom from horses."

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their personal path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Hello, this is Ruth Kerns-Volman and welcome to Your Path to Success, a podcast created to inspire, encourage and equip you on your leadership journey. Today we have a special dose of heartfelt leadership wisdom from my guest Marina Paris. Marina is a coach who works with horses as her co-facilitators, helping business leaders to grow in authenticity, emotional intelligence and effectiveness. But while Marina's life today revolves around horses, her journey began on a very different path. In our conversation, she shares her remarkable story of transitioning from the corporate world to working full-time with horses and with people. You'll hear Marina talk about pivotal moments that led her to ask big questions like, what do I really want to do in life? To let go of uncertainty and step boldly into the unknown. and to take off her mask to show up authentically and powerfully in every aspect of her life. I hope you enjoy this inspiring interview. So, welcome Marina. We met through the Business Professional Women's Organisation when you came to give a talk one time about the leadership wisdom from horses. And I was so fascinated because I love animals and nature anyway. that I wanted to hear more about your story. So it's great to have you here to talk about what you've learned on your journey.
Speaker #1
Thank you very much, Ruth. Looking back, I can't imagine a life without horses. My life was headed in a totally different direction a long, long, long time ago. It seems like a different lifetime altogether because once horses came into my life, everything changed, and I'm very grateful for those changes. And I'm, yeah. I'm just happy for the opportunity to share that with you or with your listeners this morning.
Speaker #0
Fantastic. So today, what you do is that you are an equine facilitated, you do equine facilitated learning with individuals, companies and teams. What does that look like? What does that mean?
Speaker #1
What does that mean? Instead of a person coming to me. As a coach, and they tell me their problems, I try to find solutions for their problems and help them work through issues. I, in a sense, have the horses with me as co-trainers, so to speak. And it adds a whole new dimension to the coaching experience because they're such sensitive animals. They do things that I couldn't have in my wildest dreams planned for in a session. Just something simple as... the lady we wanted to work on her goal so i said look at your goal and we'll start doing that and the horses are always free during the coaching so in this session we wanted to focus on her goal over there but the horses were standing next to her facing backwards okay so i said is there anything in your past we need to look at that might be preventing you from reaching your goal and that's just one little instant I never would have come across something like that if I hadn't the horse is just thing and you're right there at the issues that need to be addressed.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? What happens in the unspoken space and the horses kind of pointing to that, you know.
Speaker #1
If they pick up on you can't explain it scientifically a lot of it.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But those are the things. But the essence of the coaching of my coaching is to get people to have a heart. based life to have a life that's fulfilling to them and to realize that they have the power and the resources in themselves to get there yeah on the personal level and on the leadership level it's leading in the way that others follow and they're again tapping into the resource that that you have yeah it's not who you are on the outside but who you are on the inside that gives people the reason to follow you by free choice yeah you
Speaker #0
And that's really powerful, isn't it? But as you said, you weren't always doing that, were you? Maybe you weren't always following that path. How did you start off in your professional journey? Because that wasn't your path at all at the beginning, was it?
Speaker #1
No, my path was very strongly influenced by my father, which thankfully he said education is extremely important. So he made sure that my brother and I got it. good university background and all that and then went off into our professional careers and so so i'm very i'm very grateful that for that opportunity but as a kid i always wanted to I'm an outdoor person. I love animals. And I mean, even if I had an office, when I had my office jobs, I always had to have a seat by the window, a cubicle by the window, because so I could be closer to where I really wanted to be. And then I had a series of incidents as life takes us, you know, it's not so clear. I had a lot. Incidents came up where I had a chance to change my career. And I think one of the influencing factors, of course, in the moment, you don't, I didn't connect the dots. But looking back, the fact that my dad passed away when I was 30, and he finished retirement just a year earlier.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
I thought, wow, he's done so much for the family, you know, to give us opportunities in life and done everything. And then just to die of a heart attack. You know, you get this phone call in the morning, living in Switzerland, and he's in the States. finding out that he had a heart attack on the golf course. Afterwards, I realized, hey, do I, what do I really want to do in life? You know, do I want to really work my whole life, wait for retirement and then do what makes me happy? So that looking back was a massive influence subconsciously.
Speaker #0
It was a pivotal moment.
Speaker #1
It was really a pivotal moment.
Speaker #0
And how did you navigate that process of reflection? You said maybe it was unconscious. You said you didn't connect the dots.
Speaker #1
No, but it was there subconsciously. And I had opportunities. I got bored relatively quickly with jobs I had. So every three years I managed to change. And then between two jobs, once I worked for a farm that offered writing for the disabled.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
And what I saw there, what I experienced there and sensed there, I said, it's just something happened inside of me. I couldn't explain it either at the time, but I had this image. I still see these two kids in front of me. One is a girl in a wheelchair. She had, I remember she had black hair. She may have been maybe 10, 12 years old and the horse was just standing there and she was, she had funny sounds coming out of her mouth. She couldn't really articulate and she didn't have much control over her hands, but somehow the horse stood still there and just gave her that space to. to brush him and knowing that a horse not in 99 not a lifetime as a flight animal would put up you know be able to deal with that so what does it take for that horse to in that moment give that young girl what she needs to be able to experience a therapy but a different form of therapy and the second one was this young boy where i was leading the horse and the lady was working with And he also came in a wheelchair. And I thought, wow, what does it do to a person who everybody looks down at you, you know, when you're in a wheelchair? I feel awkward personally when I see people in wheelchairs, but I don't always know how to interact with them. And then to see him shining like a little light up there was just magical because people are looking up to him, you know. What that does with the posture, with everything.
Speaker #0
He rode the horse when he was riding the horse.
Speaker #1
What they usually do is you get somebody from a wheelchair, you can put them on top of a horse and then you guide them. And then the physiotherapist, if you have one, helps them with the posture so they keep their balance and stuff. And those two experiences with those kids in that month, I said, I've got to learn more about this. But I still went back to the corporate world again. And later, a few years later, I had a really fantastic job. But then when I came home from Christmas, I was in San Diego over the holidays, came back to work and they said, you've been made redundant.
Speaker #0
Oh, okay.
Speaker #1
Oh, my God.
Speaker #0
What's the feeling? What was the oh, my God feeling with that?
Speaker #1
Oh, my God feelings. I started crying. I went home and cried. You know, I had a really, all my jobs were fun, you know.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
It was a great opportunity. It was a great company. And, um. The numbers didn't match up, so they had to downsize. And after the crying and getting over it the first couple of weeks, because they then paid me to have three months off, I basically turned my whole life around and said, I'm going to go do what I want with horses. I'm going to take this opportunity.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So it feels like there was a kind of a mourning process. There's a natural process of this was fun. This was my life. Maybe there are other.
Speaker #1
Going in one direction. Yeah. You know, it's not like I was unhappy or something. It was a fun job. I always had great jobs and great people around me.
Speaker #0
Yeah. And so what did it take for you to make that shift?
Speaker #1
It meant letting go of everything I had because I then left for three years abroad.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
I went back to the States again to learn about horses.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
So I basically lived in jeans and cowboy boots for three years on trenches, which was, that's my life. That was really me. I came back. I connected with who I really was. That was the big turning point.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
That was the big turning point. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So you connected with who you really were. You embraced this thing, which had been part of you.
Speaker #1
It was always there. We just covered up with, how should I say? I mean, I'm a coach now, so I may use those coaching terms, but all the layers of conditioning is who you should be in life, who you should do. You should have a family. You should have a career. You know, it's with each of us. We have all this conditioning piled up on top of us, but it's not who we really are. And so when that falls away and you can do what makes you happy.
Speaker #0
Well,
Speaker #1
I think that's a big one.
Speaker #0
It is. And I think it happens to a lot of people at some point in life that something which has been part of a big part of who we are and a part of our, at least our external identity is, I want to say taken away or falls away, you know, goes away. And we have to reposition ourselves or re-examine, you know, who am I really and what am I going to choose now?
Speaker #1
Yeah, you always have a choice.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
You can go back to the old one. I mean, when I lost the job, I could have gone back and just looked for another job. Or you can say, OK, this is a door opener to something new. I mean, and even if it hadn't worked out, not knowing that and just leaving your dreams behind doesn't make sense either. You know, you've got to try it. How are you going to know if you don't try something?
Speaker #0
And yet there's this pull, isn't there? Because I think for many of us, it's this pull of something which is the more accepted, but also more secure route versus the unknown in some respect, whether that's financial or about status or whatever it is for each of us. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Yeah. You have to let go of that. Not knowing where life takes you.
Speaker #0
Yeah. I suppose there are ways back, aren't there?
Speaker #1
You can always go back. I mean, you know, it's always going to be there. The known is always going to be there.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But the unknown, I think that's when you come alive.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
That's when you really come alive in life. Yeah. You have to get over limitations. You have to get over fears. You have to get over a lot of things.
Speaker #0
And so for you. How would you describe this experience of these? How long was it? A few years, you said, where you went back to the US and you trained to work with horses?
Speaker #1
Yeah,
Speaker #0
with cowboy boots and your,
Speaker #1
you know. I mean, that was actually probably the three best years of my life. I had no responsibilities. I could just be me. You know, it was a dream to wake up outside and just spend the whole day with horses. And then you have a tiredness and a satisfaction, which is hard to match.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Which is hard to match. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #0
And I think one of the things that maybe I'm reading into this because I've spoken to you about working with horses, but in that environment, you're very much in the moment.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
You know, you're having to be in the moment. So there's no worrying about the past or the future at that point. It's like, I've taken this time. I'm with the horse. There's nothing I could do apart from being here.
Speaker #1
That was a big gift. That's what makes the quality of the time so nice. Like you said, Ruth, you're in the present moment. And even now, you know, I have my office work I have to do. But then when I go out to the horses, I forget everything. Because they force you in a sense, because of their sheer size and all that, to be in the present, to be in the present moment. And you actually don't want to be anywhere else when you have this quality, this opportunity. It's a big one because a lot of, I think, even myself, In the office world, you know, multitasking, you got lists, you got all that going on. That's stressful. And when that falls away, then you have a different quality of life. I'm always trying to get the quality that I have with the horses so it's not dependent on that and try to bring this quality into my daily life. It's a challenge. It's a challenge.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But like now, because I'm talking to you, it's really, there's nothing else that I'm thinking about. So I really want to give everything I have into our conversation, our time together. Because anything, if I did anything less than that, it would take away from our connection.
Speaker #0
And as we know, it's not more efficient or effective when we're two places at once. We're physically in one place and mentally or emotionally in another. Maybe sometimes we do it as a survival mechanism, but it's not a way of living that brings life in a way.
Speaker #1
It's not our natural state either.
Speaker #0
So you've talked about a few. kind of pivotal moments or how did you then come to build what you do now because you went off to the US and then you you had to kind of design well how am I gonna
Speaker #1
I came back with a horse too that was a life changer this is like a week before the training is over my dear friend Gabi who lives in Austria now and she said why didn't you take Hummer home you guys seem to have such a good relationship I thought, you've got to be kidding. I'm sure they have horses in Europe. You know, I never considered taking one of the young horses home. And then my heart spoke more than my mind. And he came then Easter, Easter 2006. He was brought over to Switzerland in a plane and that whole journey.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Then I started building my business, giving lessons with him, starting to do coaching with him and stuff like that. So I always had like a, I think I was worth maybe 60% on the side. while building the business well and then i went back to the states a couple years later in 2011 to do the official training so to speak as an equine facilitated coach the other part was just intuitive intuitive and then i did an official training for it and i was also able to go back for the states and incorporate that so it was helping horse owners understand their horses better and communicate with them and then the second part of my work was
Speaker #0
building up a coaching practice yeah yeah and so how long did it take you you said at the beginning you were working 60 on the side while building your business how long did it take you before you were able to make this the main thing you you do i
Speaker #1
got help from the outside again the company i was working for was in purchasing at the point and we decided not we decide but the company decided to it was cheaper to produce in asia okay but help them transfer do those transfers there. But in a sense, the job was redundant after a while. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So it's like you made yourself redundant in a way. I know,
Speaker #1
crazy as it sounds, crazy as it sounds. And that's when I made the jump into the self-employment.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
I don't know if I would have done it just like that, but I said, I'm going to take this chance again.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Jump into the unknown, which you had addressed earlier.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So I think, you know, part of your story, isn't it, is when these things come up, which on one level are hard, working through it so that you can see what good can come out of that and how you want to, yeah, how you want to dance with that, how you want to use that as a springboard for something else.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and there's a lot of personal development involved. It's not, to me, having your own business for me was not just having the business because in a company, I don't know, you have somebody who does the HR, you have somebody who does the IT, you have somebody. And all of a sudden, you're no longer the company when you say, hey, I'm so-and-so. I work for this company. I had to and still sometimes deal with the visibility issues because it was easy to be the assistant or right hand of somebody and lead projects in the name of a company. But once you go out with your own name and everything with a whole different feeling and to overcome some of those, some of the personal issues I had, like being able to set boundaries and stuff, those showed up in. work situations yeah wow and I have a feeling probably the horses helped you with that too oh totally they're my best teachers in life tell me a bit more because I know that you've from other conversations we've had that you've had to change your way of being to be able to do this work with horses what what have horses taught you about leadership the biggest one before the leadership is the being authentic we had touched on the conditioning before And all of us are conditioned. And in my opinion, and myself included, when I say this, we have a mask on in life. Yeah. We have a mask. And under that mask, we could have sadness. We could have anger. We could have frustration. We could have anxiety. We can have grief and all that. And to function in today's world, everybody looks for that conformity and acceptance. And how do you conform? You put a mask on and hide who you really are. and the horses are just the opposite they seek authenticity and so my horse hummer the when I brought over, he's really very picky on that. I mean, he knows exactly whether I'm really looking forward to what we're doing or I'm just putting a mask on and so he just walks away.
Speaker #0
He just walks away.
Speaker #1
He just walks away. Because I give my horses a choice. They're not in a box. They live in an open pasture. And if how I'm showing up doesn't fit, then he'll walk away, he'll walk off. And so I've really, it's not like I had to, if I was angry or upset from what was going on before, it's not like I had to change it and just say it doesn't exist. I just had to accept that it was there. That's what they're requiring of us, just to say accept the fact that you are sad, accept the fact that you're frustrated or mad or something else going on in your life.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And... I had to learn with river dance is also big help to be in my heart, to do things from the heart. Because that transfers to me the leadership. If I'm not having fun what I'm doing with the horses, why should they want to be with me and then do something that I want to do? Then it's just the mechanical. We're going through the motions, as you might say. And we find a lot of people doing that at work. They've turned into robots, but they're not. passionate about it so I've I really had to say okay what I really enjoy doing with horses because that when I do stuff out of what I have fun what comes out of the heart then it has like a magnetic effect on others and so that's what I realized in terms of authenticity and coming from the heart and being passionate or having fun what I do there's things like you Sending the horse in a circle on a lunge, I think, is silly stuff. It doesn't come from the heart. But I had a young gal who worked with my horse, and she loved to do that. So the horses had a happy person doing the work in the arena. Yeah. And I had fun going jogging with them, doing trail rides and, you know, free work where they weren't liberty work.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
So when it comes to leadership, going back to your question, Just it's important to be happy in what you do, because then you can draw others automatically into your. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah, it does. I'm making some connections in my head. The first is with your own journey. And you talked about the challenge when you have your own company or your own business that you have to show up. You can't hide behind the name of the company or someone else. Yes. And so I'm making that connection there that when you are authentic, then do you feel more comfortable being visible or being who you are?
Speaker #1
More and more. I mean, it's a journey. It's still a journey that I'm on. Even if I coach in these areas, it doesn't mean I've got it all sorted out myself. But I have an extremely high level of self-awareness because of the work with the horses. Because I'm always getting a one-to-one feedback. everything mentally emotionally and physically I get a feedback from them that's why the self awareness even though I may not I still have my struggles but the self-awareness is relatively high because I say okay that's something you need to look at or address I can't hide from myself anymore which works in the human world but not with horses when maybe when you have kids and stuff they also tell you how they see the situation or how they feel about how you're showing up exactly you have kids you know
Speaker #0
I was saying to someone in a workshop the other day that my daughter said to me, when you react like that, you make me feel like I've done something wrong. And the thing that was bothering me was not her. Yeah. So it showed me that she was, however much I tried to separate it out, she was sensing anyway what I was carrying.
Speaker #1
Exactly.
Speaker #0
And I think our colleagues do too. I just wonder. This is the other thing that was going on in my head as you were speaking. I wonder how accepting humans are compared to horses. We believe that... I work a lot on emotions and processing of emotions. And I feel that we often think it's unacceptable to have emotions or we try to put a lid on our emotions. But it's not like people can't sense that something is up. And I'm wondering how... Your work with horses has helped people with that, with the, let me accept that it's here. And then that takes away a lot of the weight, I think, of.
Speaker #1
needing to contain something or needing to express it in a certain way i mean yeah there's two components to two components up as you said people sense it yeah it's not only the horses from the from the neurosciences when you suppress an emotion emotion is an energy that wants to come up and as soon as you suppress it saying oh i better behave this way with food i can't say that with food then you put a lid on it and your blood pressure goes up your tension and that's what horses pick up on and so that means They don't know what's going on, but the same thing happens in their body. That's the crazy thing. They will also get tense and their blood pressure will go up. And as soon as you acknowledge, hey, I'm feeling sad today or I'm angry, like you said, even just saying it, it's a sense of relief throughout my body. And it will do the same to a horse and the same to a human. And in leadership workshops, people get sent there. And there are people that are scared, which is fine, or nervous. and they will never say it in the group but when we do the one-on-one work with a horse they all of a sudden say hey i'm scared of horses and that moment the horse will walk up to them yeah to give you not just to show you by just acknowledging it without
Speaker #0
changing the emotion yeah yeah i think there's such power isn't there in again this is coachy speak but we talk just about naming or articulating what's going on just saying I noticed this. It's not a judgment. It's not, you know, I noticed this tension. It immediately gives space for something to move that was blocked before.
Speaker #1
And it has a physiological effect on yourself and all those around you when you suppress an emotion.
Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm feeling like we need to start slowly moving towards a close to our discussion.
Speaker #1
That's all good.
Speaker #0
To our discussion. Is there anything else, any other stories you want to tell us about the impact that horses have had on you or on people you've worked with?
Speaker #1
A lot of it comes down to what you talked about before, the emotions and acknowledging who you are. Said one lady in a workshop, there's an exercise called the heart's desire. And she just her only wish was to be happy again in life. And so I put her in the arena. by herself with this beautiful warm blood Henry's beautiful boy huge huge and she stood in the middle of the arena it was funny and Henry was to the left of her standing and then he would walk stop in front of her stand for a few seconds then continue on turn around and then come back from the other side and stop in front of her you couldn't figure out what was going on as an outsider and then we asked her when she came out of the arena and stuff she was happy camper she was happy and she said you wouldn't believe it but henry every time he passed by and stopped he took a piece of my sadness away from me and now i felt what it's like to be happy again wow yeah i've had some just wild experiences yeah that's a goosebumps moment yeah Yeah, that's one that I, horses will do things that you can't even in your wildest dreams imagine. It's like the lady where I talked to you about before who looks, who wanted to work on something in front, but the horses were faced the other way. So we had to look at something in her past, which dealt with issues for her mother. And when we had worked through all that, you wouldn't believe it. The horses were facing the direction of the goal again. That's the power of this work, which you could. which I could never in a coaching session come to the issues that quickly. And they touch on issues, what's relevant. You know, people may have a bunch of stuff to work on, but the horse is focused on what needs to be addressed right now.
Speaker #0
Yeah. And a lot of it is getting out of the head, like we said.
Speaker #1
Everything.
Speaker #0
With the body and getting out of the figuring it out and what I should say and all of that.
Speaker #1
So in terms of advice? whatever people moving forward is to recognize that you're a sentient being you're not a head being you're sent a feeling being and get in touch with those feelings because those feelings will guide you through life at the end of the day your
Speaker #0
heart will guide you through your life if you start reconnecting with its with its wisdom yeah our emotions are an important part of who we are and they are expressing something that we have not yet caught up with. In our conscious mind sometimes,
Speaker #1
yeah.
Speaker #0
So Marina, if you look back now over your life and how has your definition of success changed over time?
Speaker #1
It may sound cliche, but it was more oriented toward the outside world before, to who I am and where I stand and all that kind of stuff. And now I'm totally or more so towards the inside. I just my goal is to be happy. and to share what I have, the gifts that I have with people. And that shows up in my, I feel that there's a direct connection to my health. You know, when you're self-employed, yes, it's hard. Yes, it's challenging. But there's a certain amount of power that comes and it keeps you healthy because you're happy. You know, when we get sick and stuff, those are all just signs saying something is out of sync. You're not listening to your... yourself some or when you're unhappy or when you're sick and so that's why I would advise people to follow their heart to do what makes them happy as much as they can and it's a paradigm shift isn't it from we talked at the beginning about your father retiring
Speaker #0
working hard you know all his life for his family and for all good reasons and then all the good reasons right and then dying on the golf course you towards the beginning of his retirement and the paradigm shifters living a life an expansive life over a longer period which is healthy to be able to give that away also rather
Speaker #1
than wearing ourselves out with it yeah and i would really encourage young people to you know follow the direction that makes them happy as well you The parents always want the best. They may think, well, your safety, you know, it's their paradigms they're putting on their kids. And they're well-intentioned. And from the heart, there's nothing wrong with that. But just realize, is it your expectation or is your kid maybe wants to be a gardener? Can you live with that if he wants to be a gardener? My dad couldn't have lived with the fact that I wanted to be a photographer for National Geographic. You know, just be outdoors and take pictures of animals. but a lot of things don't fit in our conditioning and those that's why a lot of people have their midlife crisis they go is this what life is really about indeed and when you're experiencing that i think we
Speaker #0
will find our ways what i'm hearing from you is that horses and animals in general they give you the space to experience these things in a non-judgmental way it's a safe you know they're a safe safe haven for feedback and for be and for experiencing the being in a way that's sometimes difficult with humans awesome
Speaker #1
yeah we have stories and they don't have stories yeah and it's you yeah you said it perfectly people are safe emotionally safe and physically safe We don't have that in families. We don't have it in partnerships, let alone at work sometimes.
Speaker #0
Well, Marina, thank you so much for sharing with me, with us. Tell people how they can get in touch with you and hear more about the work you do.
Speaker #1
I have a website of the same name. It's nice. It's marinaparis.com. It's in two languages, German and English, and there you'll find more information about the work. I've also put out two books and a magazine. So there's a lot of resources on the website as well, blogs and stuff. So if you're new to horses, it's a great way to just step in without having to go to a farm to really see one. You know, if you're scared or something, you can still profit from everything else without ever going to the horse farm.
Speaker #0
Great. Well, thank you very much and all the best.
Speaker #1
Thank you. It was wonderful talking to you, Ruth. Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker #0
Thank you. Talking to Marina was a true delight. She's so genuinely present and connected, and she shared such rich wisdom from her own journey and her work with horses. I wonder what resonated most with you from this conversation. Perhaps it was Marina's courage to let go of society's definitions of success and to step into the unknown in pursuit of her own fulfilment and calling. Perhaps it was her reflections on authentic leadership, taking off her masks. being honest about our feelings and leading with integrity. Or maybe it made you realise you could benefit from the kind of safe space and honest reflection that horses provide in her work. I'm recording this in December 2024 as the year draws to a close. And it's a natural time to reflect on where you are in your journey and on the challenges and breakthroughs of the past year. So I want to encourage you to hold some safe space for yourself to do just that. To dare to consider. what you truly want to do with your one wild and precious life. Holding space could mean sitting by the fire with a cup of tea and a journal, walking in nature or talking to a trusted friend. Whatever works for you, trust that you know what you need and hold that space with compassion, curiosity and courage. Finally, if you feel you need support, then don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and visit my website yourpastorsuccess.ch to learn more about my work and my upcoming events.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

To ask big questions like “what do I really want to do in life?”
To let go of everything and step out into the unknown and
To learn to take off her mask and show up authentically and powerfully in everything she does

Go to marinaparris.com to find out more about Marina's work and her two books "A heart for horses" and "Leadership wisdom from horses."

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their personal path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Hello, this is Ruth Kerns-Volman and welcome to Your Path to Success, a podcast created to inspire, encourage and equip you on your leadership journey. Today we have a special dose of heartfelt leadership wisdom from my guest Marina Paris. Marina is a coach who works with horses as her co-facilitators, helping business leaders to grow in authenticity, emotional intelligence and effectiveness. But while Marina's life today revolves around horses, her journey began on a very different path. In our conversation, she shares her remarkable story of transitioning from the corporate world to working full-time with horses and with people. You'll hear Marina talk about pivotal moments that led her to ask big questions like, what do I really want to do in life? To let go of uncertainty and step boldly into the unknown. and to take off her mask to show up authentically and powerfully in every aspect of her life. I hope you enjoy this inspiring interview. So, welcome Marina. We met through the Business Professional Women's Organisation when you came to give a talk one time about the leadership wisdom from horses. And I was so fascinated because I love animals and nature anyway. that I wanted to hear more about your story. So it's great to have you here to talk about what you've learned on your journey.
Speaker #1
Thank you very much, Ruth. Looking back, I can't imagine a life without horses. My life was headed in a totally different direction a long, long, long time ago. It seems like a different lifetime altogether because once horses came into my life, everything changed, and I'm very grateful for those changes. And I'm, yeah. I'm just happy for the opportunity to share that with you or with your listeners this morning.
Speaker #0
Fantastic. So today, what you do is that you are an equine facilitated, you do equine facilitated learning with individuals, companies and teams. What does that look like? What does that mean?
Speaker #1
What does that mean? Instead of a person coming to me. As a coach, and they tell me their problems, I try to find solutions for their problems and help them work through issues. I, in a sense, have the horses with me as co-trainers, so to speak. And it adds a whole new dimension to the coaching experience because they're such sensitive animals. They do things that I couldn't have in my wildest dreams planned for in a session. Just something simple as... the lady we wanted to work on her goal so i said look at your goal and we'll start doing that and the horses are always free during the coaching so in this session we wanted to focus on her goal over there but the horses were standing next to her facing backwards okay so i said is there anything in your past we need to look at that might be preventing you from reaching your goal and that's just one little instant I never would have come across something like that if I hadn't the horse is just thing and you're right there at the issues that need to be addressed.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it? What happens in the unspoken space and the horses kind of pointing to that, you know.
Speaker #1
If they pick up on you can't explain it scientifically a lot of it.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But those are the things. But the essence of the coaching of my coaching is to get people to have a heart. based life to have a life that's fulfilling to them and to realize that they have the power and the resources in themselves to get there yeah on the personal level and on the leadership level it's leading in the way that others follow and they're again tapping into the resource that that you have yeah it's not who you are on the outside but who you are on the inside that gives people the reason to follow you by free choice yeah you
Speaker #0
And that's really powerful, isn't it? But as you said, you weren't always doing that, were you? Maybe you weren't always following that path. How did you start off in your professional journey? Because that wasn't your path at all at the beginning, was it?
Speaker #1
No, my path was very strongly influenced by my father, which thankfully he said education is extremely important. So he made sure that my brother and I got it. good university background and all that and then went off into our professional careers and so so i'm very i'm very grateful that for that opportunity but as a kid i always wanted to I'm an outdoor person. I love animals. And I mean, even if I had an office, when I had my office jobs, I always had to have a seat by the window, a cubicle by the window, because so I could be closer to where I really wanted to be. And then I had a series of incidents as life takes us, you know, it's not so clear. I had a lot. Incidents came up where I had a chance to change my career. And I think one of the influencing factors, of course, in the moment, you don't, I didn't connect the dots. But looking back, the fact that my dad passed away when I was 30, and he finished retirement just a year earlier.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
I thought, wow, he's done so much for the family, you know, to give us opportunities in life and done everything. And then just to die of a heart attack. You know, you get this phone call in the morning, living in Switzerland, and he's in the States. finding out that he had a heart attack on the golf course. Afterwards, I realized, hey, do I, what do I really want to do in life? You know, do I want to really work my whole life, wait for retirement and then do what makes me happy? So that looking back was a massive influence subconsciously.
Speaker #0
It was a pivotal moment.
Speaker #1
It was really a pivotal moment.
Speaker #0
And how did you navigate that process of reflection? You said maybe it was unconscious. You said you didn't connect the dots.
Speaker #1
No, but it was there subconsciously. And I had opportunities. I got bored relatively quickly with jobs I had. So every three years I managed to change. And then between two jobs, once I worked for a farm that offered writing for the disabled.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
And what I saw there, what I experienced there and sensed there, I said, it's just something happened inside of me. I couldn't explain it either at the time, but I had this image. I still see these two kids in front of me. One is a girl in a wheelchair. She had, I remember she had black hair. She may have been maybe 10, 12 years old and the horse was just standing there and she was, she had funny sounds coming out of her mouth. She couldn't really articulate and she didn't have much control over her hands, but somehow the horse stood still there and just gave her that space to. to brush him and knowing that a horse not in 99 not a lifetime as a flight animal would put up you know be able to deal with that so what does it take for that horse to in that moment give that young girl what she needs to be able to experience a therapy but a different form of therapy and the second one was this young boy where i was leading the horse and the lady was working with And he also came in a wheelchair. And I thought, wow, what does it do to a person who everybody looks down at you, you know, when you're in a wheelchair? I feel awkward personally when I see people in wheelchairs, but I don't always know how to interact with them. And then to see him shining like a little light up there was just magical because people are looking up to him, you know. What that does with the posture, with everything.
Speaker #0
He rode the horse when he was riding the horse.
Speaker #1
What they usually do is you get somebody from a wheelchair, you can put them on top of a horse and then you guide them. And then the physiotherapist, if you have one, helps them with the posture so they keep their balance and stuff. And those two experiences with those kids in that month, I said, I've got to learn more about this. But I still went back to the corporate world again. And later, a few years later, I had a really fantastic job. But then when I came home from Christmas, I was in San Diego over the holidays, came back to work and they said, you've been made redundant.
Speaker #0
Oh, okay.
Speaker #1
Oh, my God.
Speaker #0
What's the feeling? What was the oh, my God feeling with that?
Speaker #1
Oh, my God feelings. I started crying. I went home and cried. You know, I had a really, all my jobs were fun, you know.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
It was a great opportunity. It was a great company. And, um. The numbers didn't match up, so they had to downsize. And after the crying and getting over it the first couple of weeks, because they then paid me to have three months off, I basically turned my whole life around and said, I'm going to go do what I want with horses. I'm going to take this opportunity.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So it feels like there was a kind of a mourning process. There's a natural process of this was fun. This was my life. Maybe there are other.
Speaker #1
Going in one direction. Yeah. You know, it's not like I was unhappy or something. It was a fun job. I always had great jobs and great people around me.
Speaker #0
Yeah. And so what did it take for you to make that shift?
Speaker #1
It meant letting go of everything I had because I then left for three years abroad.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
I went back to the States again to learn about horses.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
So I basically lived in jeans and cowboy boots for three years on trenches, which was, that's my life. That was really me. I came back. I connected with who I really was. That was the big turning point.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
That was the big turning point. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So you connected with who you really were. You embraced this thing, which had been part of you.
Speaker #1
It was always there. We just covered up with, how should I say? I mean, I'm a coach now, so I may use those coaching terms, but all the layers of conditioning is who you should be in life, who you should do. You should have a family. You should have a career. You know, it's with each of us. We have all this conditioning piled up on top of us, but it's not who we really are. And so when that falls away and you can do what makes you happy.
Speaker #0
Well,
Speaker #1
I think that's a big one.
Speaker #0
It is. And I think it happens to a lot of people at some point in life that something which has been part of a big part of who we are and a part of our, at least our external identity is, I want to say taken away or falls away, you know, goes away. And we have to reposition ourselves or re-examine, you know, who am I really and what am I going to choose now?
Speaker #1
Yeah, you always have a choice.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
You can go back to the old one. I mean, when I lost the job, I could have gone back and just looked for another job. Or you can say, OK, this is a door opener to something new. I mean, and even if it hadn't worked out, not knowing that and just leaving your dreams behind doesn't make sense either. You know, you've got to try it. How are you going to know if you don't try something?
Speaker #0
And yet there's this pull, isn't there? Because I think for many of us, it's this pull of something which is the more accepted, but also more secure route versus the unknown in some respect, whether that's financial or about status or whatever it is for each of us. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Yeah. You have to let go of that. Not knowing where life takes you.
Speaker #0
Yeah. I suppose there are ways back, aren't there?
Speaker #1
You can always go back. I mean, you know, it's always going to be there. The known is always going to be there.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But the unknown, I think that's when you come alive.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
That's when you really come alive in life. Yeah. You have to get over limitations. You have to get over fears. You have to get over a lot of things.
Speaker #0
And so for you. How would you describe this experience of these? How long was it? A few years, you said, where you went back to the US and you trained to work with horses?
Speaker #1
Yeah,
Speaker #0
with cowboy boots and your,
Speaker #1
you know. I mean, that was actually probably the three best years of my life. I had no responsibilities. I could just be me. You know, it was a dream to wake up outside and just spend the whole day with horses. And then you have a tiredness and a satisfaction, which is hard to match.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Which is hard to match. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #0
And I think one of the things that maybe I'm reading into this because I've spoken to you about working with horses, but in that environment, you're very much in the moment.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
You know, you're having to be in the moment. So there's no worrying about the past or the future at that point. It's like, I've taken this time. I'm with the horse. There's nothing I could do apart from being here.
Speaker #1
That was a big gift. That's what makes the quality of the time so nice. Like you said, Ruth, you're in the present moment. And even now, you know, I have my office work I have to do. But then when I go out to the horses, I forget everything. Because they force you in a sense, because of their sheer size and all that, to be in the present, to be in the present moment. And you actually don't want to be anywhere else when you have this quality, this opportunity. It's a big one because a lot of, I think, even myself, In the office world, you know, multitasking, you got lists, you got all that going on. That's stressful. And when that falls away, then you have a different quality of life. I'm always trying to get the quality that I have with the horses so it's not dependent on that and try to bring this quality into my daily life. It's a challenge. It's a challenge.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
But like now, because I'm talking to you, it's really, there's nothing else that I'm thinking about. So I really want to give everything I have into our conversation, our time together. Because anything, if I did anything less than that, it would take away from our connection.
Speaker #0
And as we know, it's not more efficient or effective when we're two places at once. We're physically in one place and mentally or emotionally in another. Maybe sometimes we do it as a survival mechanism, but it's not a way of living that brings life in a way.
Speaker #1
It's not our natural state either.
Speaker #0
So you've talked about a few. kind of pivotal moments or how did you then come to build what you do now because you went off to the US and then you you had to kind of design well how am I gonna
Speaker #1
I came back with a horse too that was a life changer this is like a week before the training is over my dear friend Gabi who lives in Austria now and she said why didn't you take Hummer home you guys seem to have such a good relationship I thought, you've got to be kidding. I'm sure they have horses in Europe. You know, I never considered taking one of the young horses home. And then my heart spoke more than my mind. And he came then Easter, Easter 2006. He was brought over to Switzerland in a plane and that whole journey.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
Then I started building my business, giving lessons with him, starting to do coaching with him and stuff like that. So I always had like a, I think I was worth maybe 60% on the side. while building the business well and then i went back to the states a couple years later in 2011 to do the official training so to speak as an equine facilitated coach the other part was just intuitive intuitive and then i did an official training for it and i was also able to go back for the states and incorporate that so it was helping horse owners understand their horses better and communicate with them and then the second part of my work was
Speaker #0
building up a coaching practice yeah yeah and so how long did it take you you said at the beginning you were working 60 on the side while building your business how long did it take you before you were able to make this the main thing you you do i
Speaker #1
got help from the outside again the company i was working for was in purchasing at the point and we decided not we decide but the company decided to it was cheaper to produce in asia okay but help them transfer do those transfers there. But in a sense, the job was redundant after a while. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So it's like you made yourself redundant in a way. I know,
Speaker #1
crazy as it sounds, crazy as it sounds. And that's when I made the jump into the self-employment.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
I don't know if I would have done it just like that, but I said, I'm going to take this chance again.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Jump into the unknown, which you had addressed earlier.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So I think, you know, part of your story, isn't it, is when these things come up, which on one level are hard, working through it so that you can see what good can come out of that and how you want to, yeah, how you want to dance with that, how you want to use that as a springboard for something else.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and there's a lot of personal development involved. It's not, to me, having your own business for me was not just having the business because in a company, I don't know, you have somebody who does the HR, you have somebody who does the IT, you have somebody. And all of a sudden, you're no longer the company when you say, hey, I'm so-and-so. I work for this company. I had to and still sometimes deal with the visibility issues because it was easy to be the assistant or right hand of somebody and lead projects in the name of a company. But once you go out with your own name and everything with a whole different feeling and to overcome some of those, some of the personal issues I had, like being able to set boundaries and stuff, those showed up in. work situations yeah wow and I have a feeling probably the horses helped you with that too oh totally they're my best teachers in life tell me a bit more because I know that you've from other conversations we've had that you've had to change your way of being to be able to do this work with horses what what have horses taught you about leadership the biggest one before the leadership is the being authentic we had touched on the conditioning before And all of us are conditioned. And in my opinion, and myself included, when I say this, we have a mask on in life. Yeah. We have a mask. And under that mask, we could have sadness. We could have anger. We could have frustration. We could have anxiety. We can have grief and all that. And to function in today's world, everybody looks for that conformity and acceptance. And how do you conform? You put a mask on and hide who you really are. and the horses are just the opposite they seek authenticity and so my horse hummer the when I brought over, he's really very picky on that. I mean, he knows exactly whether I'm really looking forward to what we're doing or I'm just putting a mask on and so he just walks away.
Speaker #0
He just walks away.
Speaker #1
He just walks away. Because I give my horses a choice. They're not in a box. They live in an open pasture. And if how I'm showing up doesn't fit, then he'll walk away, he'll walk off. And so I've really, it's not like I had to, if I was angry or upset from what was going on before, it's not like I had to change it and just say it doesn't exist. I just had to accept that it was there. That's what they're requiring of us, just to say accept the fact that you are sad, accept the fact that you're frustrated or mad or something else going on in your life.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
And... I had to learn with river dance is also big help to be in my heart, to do things from the heart. Because that transfers to me the leadership. If I'm not having fun what I'm doing with the horses, why should they want to be with me and then do something that I want to do? Then it's just the mechanical. We're going through the motions, as you might say. And we find a lot of people doing that at work. They've turned into robots, but they're not. passionate about it so I've I really had to say okay what I really enjoy doing with horses because that when I do stuff out of what I have fun what comes out of the heart then it has like a magnetic effect on others and so that's what I realized in terms of authenticity and coming from the heart and being passionate or having fun what I do there's things like you Sending the horse in a circle on a lunge, I think, is silly stuff. It doesn't come from the heart. But I had a young gal who worked with my horse, and she loved to do that. So the horses had a happy person doing the work in the arena. Yeah. And I had fun going jogging with them, doing trail rides and, you know, free work where they weren't liberty work.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #1
So when it comes to leadership, going back to your question, Just it's important to be happy in what you do, because then you can draw others automatically into your. I don't know if that makes sense.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah, it does. I'm making some connections in my head. The first is with your own journey. And you talked about the challenge when you have your own company or your own business that you have to show up. You can't hide behind the name of the company or someone else. Yes. And so I'm making that connection there that when you are authentic, then do you feel more comfortable being visible or being who you are?
Speaker #1
More and more. I mean, it's a journey. It's still a journey that I'm on. Even if I coach in these areas, it doesn't mean I've got it all sorted out myself. But I have an extremely high level of self-awareness because of the work with the horses. Because I'm always getting a one-to-one feedback. everything mentally emotionally and physically I get a feedback from them that's why the self awareness even though I may not I still have my struggles but the self-awareness is relatively high because I say okay that's something you need to look at or address I can't hide from myself anymore which works in the human world but not with horses when maybe when you have kids and stuff they also tell you how they see the situation or how they feel about how you're showing up exactly you have kids you know
Speaker #0
I was saying to someone in a workshop the other day that my daughter said to me, when you react like that, you make me feel like I've done something wrong. And the thing that was bothering me was not her. Yeah. So it showed me that she was, however much I tried to separate it out, she was sensing anyway what I was carrying.
Speaker #1
Exactly.
Speaker #0
And I think our colleagues do too. I just wonder. This is the other thing that was going on in my head as you were speaking. I wonder how accepting humans are compared to horses. We believe that... I work a lot on emotions and processing of emotions. And I feel that we often think it's unacceptable to have emotions or we try to put a lid on our emotions. But it's not like people can't sense that something is up. And I'm wondering how... Your work with horses has helped people with that, with the, let me accept that it's here. And then that takes away a lot of the weight, I think, of.
Speaker #1
needing to contain something or needing to express it in a certain way i mean yeah there's two components to two components up as you said people sense it yeah it's not only the horses from the from the neurosciences when you suppress an emotion emotion is an energy that wants to come up and as soon as you suppress it saying oh i better behave this way with food i can't say that with food then you put a lid on it and your blood pressure goes up your tension and that's what horses pick up on and so that means They don't know what's going on, but the same thing happens in their body. That's the crazy thing. They will also get tense and their blood pressure will go up. And as soon as you acknowledge, hey, I'm feeling sad today or I'm angry, like you said, even just saying it, it's a sense of relief throughout my body. And it will do the same to a horse and the same to a human. And in leadership workshops, people get sent there. And there are people that are scared, which is fine, or nervous. and they will never say it in the group but when we do the one-on-one work with a horse they all of a sudden say hey i'm scared of horses and that moment the horse will walk up to them yeah to give you not just to show you by just acknowledging it without
Speaker #0
changing the emotion yeah yeah i think there's such power isn't there in again this is coachy speak but we talk just about naming or articulating what's going on just saying I noticed this. It's not a judgment. It's not, you know, I noticed this tension. It immediately gives space for something to move that was blocked before.
Speaker #1
And it has a physiological effect on yourself and all those around you when you suppress an emotion.
Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I'm feeling like we need to start slowly moving towards a close to our discussion.
Speaker #1
That's all good.
Speaker #0
To our discussion. Is there anything else, any other stories you want to tell us about the impact that horses have had on you or on people you've worked with?
Speaker #1
A lot of it comes down to what you talked about before, the emotions and acknowledging who you are. Said one lady in a workshop, there's an exercise called the heart's desire. And she just her only wish was to be happy again in life. And so I put her in the arena. by herself with this beautiful warm blood Henry's beautiful boy huge huge and she stood in the middle of the arena it was funny and Henry was to the left of her standing and then he would walk stop in front of her stand for a few seconds then continue on turn around and then come back from the other side and stop in front of her you couldn't figure out what was going on as an outsider and then we asked her when she came out of the arena and stuff she was happy camper she was happy and she said you wouldn't believe it but henry every time he passed by and stopped he took a piece of my sadness away from me and now i felt what it's like to be happy again wow yeah i've had some just wild experiences yeah that's a goosebumps moment yeah Yeah, that's one that I, horses will do things that you can't even in your wildest dreams imagine. It's like the lady where I talked to you about before who looks, who wanted to work on something in front, but the horses were faced the other way. So we had to look at something in her past, which dealt with issues for her mother. And when we had worked through all that, you wouldn't believe it. The horses were facing the direction of the goal again. That's the power of this work, which you could. which I could never in a coaching session come to the issues that quickly. And they touch on issues, what's relevant. You know, people may have a bunch of stuff to work on, but the horse is focused on what needs to be addressed right now.
Speaker #0
Yeah. And a lot of it is getting out of the head, like we said.
Speaker #1
Everything.
Speaker #0
With the body and getting out of the figuring it out and what I should say and all of that.
Speaker #1
So in terms of advice? whatever people moving forward is to recognize that you're a sentient being you're not a head being you're sent a feeling being and get in touch with those feelings because those feelings will guide you through life at the end of the day your
Speaker #0
heart will guide you through your life if you start reconnecting with its with its wisdom yeah our emotions are an important part of who we are and they are expressing something that we have not yet caught up with. In our conscious mind sometimes,
Speaker #1
yeah.
Speaker #0
So Marina, if you look back now over your life and how has your definition of success changed over time?
Speaker #1
It may sound cliche, but it was more oriented toward the outside world before, to who I am and where I stand and all that kind of stuff. And now I'm totally or more so towards the inside. I just my goal is to be happy. and to share what I have, the gifts that I have with people. And that shows up in my, I feel that there's a direct connection to my health. You know, when you're self-employed, yes, it's hard. Yes, it's challenging. But there's a certain amount of power that comes and it keeps you healthy because you're happy. You know, when we get sick and stuff, those are all just signs saying something is out of sync. You're not listening to your... yourself some or when you're unhappy or when you're sick and so that's why I would advise people to follow their heart to do what makes them happy as much as they can and it's a paradigm shift isn't it from we talked at the beginning about your father retiring
Speaker #0
working hard you know all his life for his family and for all good reasons and then all the good reasons right and then dying on the golf course you towards the beginning of his retirement and the paradigm shifters living a life an expansive life over a longer period which is healthy to be able to give that away also rather
Speaker #1
than wearing ourselves out with it yeah and i would really encourage young people to you know follow the direction that makes them happy as well you The parents always want the best. They may think, well, your safety, you know, it's their paradigms they're putting on their kids. And they're well-intentioned. And from the heart, there's nothing wrong with that. But just realize, is it your expectation or is your kid maybe wants to be a gardener? Can you live with that if he wants to be a gardener? My dad couldn't have lived with the fact that I wanted to be a photographer for National Geographic. You know, just be outdoors and take pictures of animals. but a lot of things don't fit in our conditioning and those that's why a lot of people have their midlife crisis they go is this what life is really about indeed and when you're experiencing that i think we
Speaker #0
will find our ways what i'm hearing from you is that horses and animals in general they give you the space to experience these things in a non-judgmental way it's a safe you know they're a safe safe haven for feedback and for be and for experiencing the being in a way that's sometimes difficult with humans awesome
Speaker #1
yeah we have stories and they don't have stories yeah and it's you yeah you said it perfectly people are safe emotionally safe and physically safe We don't have that in families. We don't have it in partnerships, let alone at work sometimes.
Speaker #0
Well, Marina, thank you so much for sharing with me, with us. Tell people how they can get in touch with you and hear more about the work you do.
Speaker #1
I have a website of the same name. It's nice. It's marinaparis.com. It's in two languages, German and English, and there you'll find more information about the work. I've also put out two books and a magazine. So there's a lot of resources on the website as well, blogs and stuff. So if you're new to horses, it's a great way to just step in without having to go to a farm to really see one. You know, if you're scared or something, you can still profit from everything else without ever going to the horse farm.
Speaker #0
Great. Well, thank you very much and all the best.
Speaker #1
Thank you. It was wonderful talking to you, Ruth. Thank you for the opportunity.
Speaker #0
Thank you. Talking to Marina was a true delight. She's so genuinely present and connected, and she shared such rich wisdom from her own journey and her work with horses. I wonder what resonated most with you from this conversation. Perhaps it was Marina's courage to let go of society's definitions of success and to step into the unknown in pursuit of her own fulfilment and calling. Perhaps it was her reflections on authentic leadership, taking off her masks. being honest about our feelings and leading with integrity. Or maybe it made you realise you could benefit from the kind of safe space and honest reflection that horses provide in her work. I'm recording this in December 2024 as the year draws to a close. And it's a natural time to reflect on where you are in your journey and on the challenges and breakthroughs of the past year. So I want to encourage you to hold some safe space for yourself to do just that. To dare to consider. what you truly want to do with your one wild and precious life. Holding space could mean sitting by the fire with a cup of tea and a journal, walking in nature or talking to a trusted friend. Whatever works for you, trust that you know what you need and hold that space with compassion, curiosity and courage. Finally, if you feel you need support, then don't hesitate to reach out. Thank you for listening today. If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe and visit my website yourpastorsuccess.ch to learn more about my work and my upcoming events.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Embed