Transcription

• Speaker #0

  This is Ad Infinitum. Ad Infinitum is the award-winning podcast solely focused on audio ads, the creatives who make them, and or the latest thinking that informs them, how the space is evolving, and my favorite part, a roundup of recent audio ads with analysis by yours truly, Stu Redwine, and each episode's guest. This is season three, episode six of Ad Infinitum, and today we're diving into something that might just be the most underrated tool in audio advertising, or advertising in general, which is comedy. To ye mighty chief audio officers listening, here's why it matters. According to research by marketing effectiveness expert Peter Field in collaboration with System One and Adam Morgan of Eat Big Fish, brought to my attention by Pierre Bouvard over at Westwood One, boring ads aren't just forgettable, they're expensive. Much more expensive. Brands have to spend 2 to 2.6 times more on dull ads to drive the same business results as interesting ones. And humor is a powerful tool to make something interesting. The research from System One shows that the funniest ads deliver five times more market share growth than the least funny ones. Comedy has an enduring quality when it works. But we've all been thoroughly entertained by an ad, and then the next day when we go to tell somebody about it, we completely forget what brand it is for. We've all had that experience. So today we're asking, why don't more brands take advantage of this? What happens when we take comedy seriously in our ads? To answer that, we're joined by two pros who know a thing or two about making people. Laugh, Wayne Brady and Jonathan Mangum from HeadGum's What If podcast. Welcome to Add Infinite Item.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you so much.

• Speaker #2

  Thank you.

• Speaker #0

  This is so cool. I'm glad you guys could do this. I remember watching Wayne on Whose Line Is It Anyway over at my friend Brad Palmer's house back in Kansas City.

• Speaker #2

  What's Brad doing now?

• Speaker #0

  You know, I haven't caught up with him a long time. You're a terrible friend.

• Speaker #2

  Horrible friend. Horrible.

• Speaker #1

  Hey, Brad, if you're listening to Add Infinite Item right now.

• Speaker #2

  We're I'm sorry, Brad.

• Speaker #1

  You lost a friend.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  You used to watch who's lying sometimes with a buddy of yours. He misses you and he just brought your name up in this podcast. In this particular episode, he owes you. He owes you everything. So much. If it wasn't for you, he would never meet. Me. Brad. Brad. Brad. Brad. Brad.

• Speaker #3

  Brad. Brad. Brad.

• Speaker #1

  Brad. You've never gotten your flowers, but today we'll tell you. Thank you. He loves you, Brad.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you very much. I'm not going to mention who I was with when I was checking out Jonathan's work early on.

• Speaker #2

  You probably shouldn't.

• Speaker #0

  All right. So Wayne. and Jonathan are the improv partners and co-creators of the What If podcast. You just got a little bit of a taste of that. And I've listened to every single episode of What If. It is that entertaining on my daily walks with my main man, Maverick, my dog. And I particularly loved the James Brown bit. James Brown as a math teacher.

• Speaker #2

  What if James Brown taught math class?

• Speaker #1

  Hey, guys. Man. Where's our teacher?

• Speaker #0

  The teacher's looking on his own classroom door.

• Speaker #2

  Stand up, kid! Teacher ultimate! It's changed now! Stand up! Teacher can't! Teacher ultimate! So you've both built careers making people laugh. In your opinion, why does humor work so well in ads when it does work, and in particular in audio? I think that it works for any message at all. Because once you open the door and you've disarmed someone, you have to be able to trust someone to laugh. So once those walls are down, insert message here, man.

• Speaker #1

  And music, it is, for my personal take, it is the best conveyor of message and comedy. If you can make up a song on the spot, if you can make up a song parody immediately, you have instant comedy gold. And when you marry that with an ad, whatever the product is, let's say we did a parody song for a beer. And you marry that. with a great rock song from the 70s or 80s, and you're able to do a clever parody with that. The person listening, they laugh first. They go, oh, there's that song that was like dot, dot, dot. And then they laugh and go, that's funny. And I laughed because, insert product name, the recognition that goes along with that, that'll stick. Not only will they remember why they laugh, but it's so catchy. And I think that that's the hook of this. Is musical comedy, when it works, it's catchy. And that's what you want as an ad. You want it to be catchy. So I think that's the one-two punch. Give them the thing that they go, oh, I like how that sounds. And then give them the message couched in the comedy.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I mean, it immediately connects. You know, it's processed in the same part of the brain as memory and emotion. Sound is so powerful. And something else you guys do a lot on your show. beyond the music and the comedy that I was thinking of some here with like, how does this work particularly in audios when you do the sound effects? And so you'll paint the pictures in the theater of the mind where you're like, do you like sound of a door opening? I also think that's an interesting aspect of audio ads. It's like you guys are audio Foley artists that you pull certain very specific sounds that help move the story and connect with the listener.

• Speaker #1

  We'd love to create the scene. Just like you said, it's the theater of the mind. So. When we're doing something like a podcast and we know that maybe the viewer can't see us, we have to create that vision in totality so that we can suck them in.

• Speaker #2

  You said suck.

• Speaker #0

  All right. So with that said, and we talk about this a lot, like audio is inherently powerful. Music, comedy, these things connect. We all know this. Like it's the stuff that makes being alive delightful.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  But a lot of brands still don't take. advantage of it. For instance, we've worked with a few different life insurance brands, and not one of them has taken on what I think is pretty much one of the richest territories for comedy, in my opinion, which is death. And they won't take a comedic angle on it. And I was just seeing an ad for one of them on television where I'm like, why doesn't anybody do that with life insurance? Why not just lean into what's inherently horrifying and hilarious about everybody's going to die?

• Speaker #1

  That's true. I think not everyone has the same perspective, right? And I'd imagine as a client or as a business, you sometimes take the safest route towards, will more people be offended at my take on this particular subject, i.e. death, than more people that will enjoy it? And that's the fear. And maybe what's needed is these companies need to get over that fear and try because we need to give the consumer more credit.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, especially since people that are buying life insurance are alive, Like, you're not... making a claim, you're alive. So I think most people would enjoy a sense of humor around life insurance. Probably not the people that just suffered a tragedy in their family, but those people aren't buying life insurance. They already have it, right? It's a good point.

• Speaker #1

  And it's such a big weighty thing and we don't enjoy talking about it. You're exactly right. Lean into it. Lean into the, we're all in this together. It's going to happen to everybody. And here's how we can take some of the fear out of it by yelling into the dark.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, and maybe you could move an inch towards it. You know, it's not that it actually has to be completely ridiculous, but just taking that tone and asking you guys as comedians, like let's say if we could transport you into a boardroom with a major brand that's looking to advertise, how do they discover their comedic tone and how do they find those lane lines?

• Speaker #1

  I think first they would need to have someone, because we both have done quite a few commercials and it always starts with the ad agency and of course the ad agency. Maybe if you're lucky, you'll have an ad agency where someone is creative enough or they've taken a couple improv classes and their mind is open enough and they'll say, hey, what if? As soon as those words are mentioned, like our podcast, which is why we named it that, those are two of the most powerful words in creativity. What if? What if? So we take you right now. So we're selling life insurance, right? So it doesn't necessarily have to be about the person that's already gone. So we're selling life insurance. So then we'd have to come up with the thing. What if blank, blank, and this is the outcome. So like writing a sketch, we'd have to think, what are the two things that are so, what's one thing that's so absurd and weird married with a real thing that would equal our message. And then from there, we would have to brainstorm and then hopefully come up with a thing.

• Speaker #2

  And unlike an ad agency where you sit and you work and you pitch and you're drawing pictures and blah, Rather than all that, and then you coming up with what you think is going to be the ad campaign, you get Wayne and myself to record our riffs all day. Yeah. Now you've got four hours of riffing and jokes and songs and go through that and pull out the gold.

• Speaker #1

  You have gold. Like, let's try one right now.

• Speaker #2

  All right.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. Just off the top of my head, I think I got something. Okay. Son, come on in.

• Speaker #2

  Hey, Dad.

• Speaker #1

  Hey, your mom said that you, uh, you were having a bad dream last night.

• Speaker #2

  I was really worried that you all died.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, look, listen, sport. I know you're worried about Daddy being gone, but trust me when I say that you're gonna be all right.

• Speaker #2

  Really? Where's Mom?

• Speaker #1

  Let me tell you. Remember when your mama dropped you off at school today?

• Speaker #2

  I remember that.

• Speaker #1

  He's dead. Oh, no. But that's all right. Because here's what the last thing that your mama said. She said, make sure that Timmy can take the best courses in school.

• Speaker #2

  You mean, I'll be safe?

• Speaker #1

  You can go to college, any college you want. Any college you think is cool. Because we'll have lots and lots of cash.

• Speaker #2

  Life insurance.

• Speaker #1

  Lots and lots of dough.

• Speaker #2

  Life insurance.

• Speaker #1

  Lots and lots of green. to make sure that your life will go.

• Speaker #2

  I just shot you, too. Now I have even more money.

• Speaker #1

  You've got it, son. With this new life insurance policy that we've both taken out, you'll be able to go to the finest schools, you'll be able to have someone take care of you as a provider, you'll have all of your needs met, and it'll be set up in installments that you will be able to get full access to by the time that you're 21. In annual installments. In an annuity. Thanks, Dad. I love you.

• Speaker #2

  I'm going to Brad's house to watch Whose Line.

• Speaker #1

  Tell him I said hi.

• Speaker #2

  So that would be a part of the four hours that we'd be riffing, of course. That wouldn't be the commercial.

• Speaker #1

  That may not actually make it to air, but it would give us a place to start.

• Speaker #2

  Another fun way I would imagine it too is like, what if instead of dying, it was their ghosts are still around, right? You're being haunted by your relative for not having the right life insurance. That way there's not that missing element of someone gone. Charles.

• Speaker #1

  Uncle Timmy, what are you doing in the bathroom?

• Speaker #2

  I leapt out of the coffin and here I am. But you're dead. I know, and you're still stuck in this broken down home.

• Speaker #1

  I know, I know. I thought things would get better, but, you know, I'm just trying to make it one paycheck at a time.

• Speaker #2

  If you had life insurance, you'd be enjoying much more.

• Speaker #1

  You mean if I would have taken out a policy on you?

• Speaker #2

  That's right. I know uncle to nephew is an unusual policy, but we'll sell you anything you want, really.

• Speaker #1

  Huh. You know what? I think you're right. I think I should take out an insurance policy on those not only near to me, but maybe I should take one out on myself as well.

• Speaker #2

  Ooh, can ghosts bathe?

• Speaker #1

  Let's find out.

• Speaker #2

  The end. Outstanding. Outstanding.

• Speaker #1

  Ghost bathe. Obviously, Jonathan and I do not understand the inner workings of life insurance.

• Speaker #2

  Right. We'd have to get a prepper on the points of what you were trying to get across.

• Speaker #0

  What I like about it is... that you guys step right up and you swing and the volume of ideas. Yeah. And to me, especially as AI is entering the space, you know, you want to talk about yes and, or it has no resistance. None. Yeah. So to me, the game is always like in working with creatives on our team is quantity has a quality all of its own. Yeah. But there's this pressure when it becomes a day job and it's corporate, right? One of the problems I think in the ad world is that They're just wanting to get the job done.

• Speaker #1

  Job's not finished.

• Speaker #0

  As opposed to, hey, we're going to come up with 100 ideas. Like, it's okay. We can come up with a bunch of ideas to get to the good stuff. As opposed to, I did the three. Can you pick one of the three?

• Speaker #1

  And coming up with, even if you sat for an hour and they were all crappy until the one piece of gold. The way that this particular art works is when you watch something like Whose Line, it's an anomaly, right? Improvisation, by its definition, it's designed to fail. It's not a perfect thing because it isn't written. we haven't run it through. focus group we haven't sat down. It really is the first thought that came to your head and rarely is the first thought the best thought, but it's not about the first thought. The first thought is merely a what if. Then the second thought is, ooh, that was cool, but what if. Then the third, fourth, fifth thoughts are all building on that. You'll never get to the place that you need to if you cut off that flow of creativity from the get-go. You need all of those bad ideas, and those bad ideas ultimately are really lesser versions of the good idea.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, having done a lot of... commercials in my life, what you're saying is you can just feel how safe it is. You can feel the seatbelts around it. You can feel the life vest on the ad itself. Like, well, they're trying to be safe. They don't want to offend it. Just this ugly floating thing. And there's no risk. There's no danger. That's what I love about improv. It's all danger all the time. And then when you apply this to ads, you're only pulling out the things you like. You can A, B test till you're blue in the face and all the different versions of things you've heard. But it all comes from just this fun, spontaneous, creative thing, as opposed to the fear-based ads that I'm sure we're all familiar with.

• Speaker #1

  And AI can generate. That's the thing. AI can generate idea after idea. But the thing that AI cannot do, I mean, up to this point. is there's a difference between AI being able to generate something off of a prompt and having true creatives sit and go, ooh, let me turn that idea around. And sometimes it's just the slight turning of the way that you look at an idea. And it could be the difference between a word that then goes, that's funny, that strikes, and that resonates. And that's something that only a human creative can do as of right now, and a creative that thinks a certain way.

• Speaker #0

  When I find that the AI tools, they're helpful in doing those initial big swaths of a bunch of bad ideas.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  Like, give me 50 headlines to then get us thinking, where if I had to sit and do that, or if another creative had to sit and do that, it's very taxing and you do have decision fatigue. Absolutely. But it helps set you up. I think something else, like you were talking about ads being safe. Mike Cesario from Liquid Death, which everybody loves Liquid Death's work.

• Speaker #1

  We love Liquid Death.

• Speaker #0

  And he set out, we don't want to just be advertising funny. We want to be funny, funny. Funny, funny how? Like make it actually good. Another thing that I see comes into play when it comes to advertising and brands is that you're not with professional comedians. You're not even holding yourself up to the standard of what you go home and are entertained by. It can be kind of a group think into going, what's the safe thing? But yeah, yeah, that's funny. Yeah, that is funny. Oh, that was clever that way that he said that. But you're not really holding it up to that same bar.

• Speaker #2

  Correct.

• Speaker #1

  Go to the highest version of whatever the thing is. And I mean, we are speaking in generalities. I think sometimes it's easier. Some things are inherently funnier than others. Some products are funnier than others. Something so, I think it's up to your team and how they think. It really does boil down to how does your team see the world?

• Speaker #0

  That is a very good point. Yes. And if how, I guess by extrapolation, I mean, is how funny is the brand willing to be or exactly as you can be Robin Williams at a funeral, which I guess is kind of what we were talking about.

• Speaker #2

  Sometimes I feel like, you know how people are very, like if you were to ask any of your clients, like, hey, why don't you get up and do stand-up comedy? They would be horrified. They're like, no, no, no, we don't do it. Oh, they die. And so in a way, they're afraid that if their ad campaign is trying to be funny, it's like them getting up doing comedy. You know, it's like, because they're representing their brand. Here's the comedy I pick. So it's basically like me getting up and doing comedy. So I feel like there's like that personal fear of a lot of these CEOs of these companies of like, it's going to be me doing stand-up. You know, see how I'm equating that? Oh, sure.

• Speaker #0

  I mean, that's something we talk about, too, is sonic branding, where I think people are inherently afraid to speak in public. They're inherently afraid to sing. And I think the same thing translates to a brand. It's like it's afraid to use its voice. But with you guys as hosts, you know, something that we're always trying to do is strip the copy back, make it really simple. And kind of on the same Mike Cesario point of like, let's not try to do what only they can do. Instead, it's like an exercise in minimalism and discipline in the brand, just giving you. like let's say 180 words is 60 seconds okay most of the time copy points will come through to a host i know this because we see this all the time 220 250 words we've taken the opposite approach of going instead of 180 words let's try to get it down to less than 100 strip it and give you the room to do what only you can do yeah that makes complete sense before you came in we were doing an ad for hymns the ed medicine and we did all kinds of just really silly fun things yeah

• Speaker #1

  And it was really a cold read, too, because we just saw the ad copy. And then we said, OK, let's come up with a couple of different scenarios. It's like a buddy counseling his friend. It's another guy asking for advice. But then Jonathan said something. He's like, hey, man, you're in my bed. I was like, oh, excuse me, ma'am. And I moved his wife out the way. And then I was like, hey, you know, I'd love to help you out with your love life. It's like, oh, please. So even just things like that.

• Speaker #0

  And this is great, though, because it just happened. And I talk about this. Hosts are people, too. Like when you get handed copy, like this actually perfect example. So I take it you just did an episode, right? Okay. So at the end of recording an episode, then it's, oh, we need to do some ads.

• Speaker #2

  Yep. Right.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. You saw the copy for the first time in that moment. Okay. And was it well-structured? Was it overwhelming? You know, was it super long or was it a pretty good length and you're able to jump right in?

• Speaker #2

  They needed us to go for a minute and they kind of had written out the general bullets.

• Speaker #0

  And so we just- We're talking like a single page? Yeah, it was like a page. So that's like perfect. So have you done anywhere you get a big long pages and pages of copy?

• Speaker #2

  Not yet.

• Speaker #1

  Right. This was our first one, really. Our first official ads. We did an ad for that and for... Some gummies. Lumi.

• Speaker #0

  Lumi gummies. Oh, well, hopefully we get you some more from Oxford Road. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  That would be amazing. But the fun part about doing it is we were talking to Thomas, our producer, and being a podcast listener, I hear when the host then goes, when my family needs something to eat, you know, I always reach for Stouffer's dinner. And I go, no, you don't. No, you don't. No, you don't. You're a liar. And you've turned me off because, hey, I'm a little cynical, but I kind of believe that our brand of comedy is like on Let's Make a Deal and even on our podcast, we're very upfront with the people at home. We kind of take the route of, look, if this camera just broke, we're going to make fun of ourselves because the camera just broke. I'm not going to lie to you. and say, oh, something's wrong. No, we're telling you what it is. So when we get ad copy immediately, like with the ED one, like, well, no, I don't have erectile dysfunction. I'm not going to lie and say, you know, I've been suffering lately for it. And it might make someone feel good, but no, instead, I'm not going to say that I have it, but we're going to make fun of the awkwardness of talking about ED so that we can present you with the solution because it is awkward. People don't like to talk about it. but look, we've got this thing. So we think around it. And then the other one was for the Loomis Gummy. I don't like to get high. I've had an experience where once I did and my body just doesn't work with it. So I said, well, I can't say that I use these things. So we came up with something and said where I actually say to Jonathan, you know, I don't like to get high. And this thing is weird. And he then said, no, but these are different because of X, Y, and Z. So we're able to tell the truth. Yes. But then we have fun in telling the truth.

• Speaker #2

  And we submitted a bunch of stuff. So they're going to be able to go through it and pull this line, that line. We like this. We like that. There's a whole smorgasbord of comedy for them to choose from.

• Speaker #0

  That's exceptional because a lot of times it's like a single air check and then you try to go back and make a change. But I mean, it's your guys' whole approach, which what I want to do is take that to some top spenders in radio advertising. Great. We're going to rate them. We'll rank them real quick because that's what we do on ad infinitum. And then I would like you guys to improve them, which with whatever time we have remaining In particular, there's one... workhorse spot for ZipRecruiter. It cracks me up as far as like how podcast ads work. There was a day, it was a few years ago, my youngest daughter came in and she asked me, she said, hey dad, I got a question. I was like, what's that? She's like, do you guys use ZipRecruiter at work? And I was like, what do you mean? She goes, well, it's the smartest way to hire. Because she'd been hearing their ads in a kid's podcast, which there's a whole bunch we could talk about in there, about co-listening and all the sorts of other stuff. But ZipRecruiter has had a spot that has been on the air for like a decade. We'll get to that. But first, let's do this. This represents millions and millions of dollars spent in the month of March on radio. Those top advertisers are Progressive, the Home Depot, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Discover and then ZipRecruiter. All right. So here we go. Let's hear the spot from Progressive.

• Speaker #4

  Progressive knows if you have to choose between everyday life and your boat, boat wins. three scheduling eye exams can be a nightmare all right fine exam 10 votes with progressive you can bundle your boat with your home or auto and save with a discount and spend more time enjoying those savings on your boat progressive casualty insurance company affiliates and other insurers not available in all states of situation okay

• Speaker #0

  so that was a radio ad for progressive i want you guys to rate it as human dudes that might have heard that on the radio when they were driving The what-if persuasive scale. We'll do a blended score between the two of you.

• Speaker #1

  Wow. To whomever the ad agency that they came up with these, it's no shade to you. We are just listening to this, and does it resonate?

• Speaker #2

  I would like to give shade to the ad agency. No, I'm kidding, I'm kidding. It's one of those that's just like, it makes so little sense right away that I've tuned out.

• Speaker #0

  So you give it a five?

• Speaker #2

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  You know what? I think I was waiting for it to be funny, and in improvisation or even in writing, to me... it was a gossipy sketch. And by gossip, I just mean words. It's like when you're on stage doing something and no one has clearly defined, this is the end of the scene that we're going towards. So we're just gonna blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah until we get to that point. And then the end of the scene is like, bacon. And I was like, oh, that whole scene was about bacon? I never realized that the entire time until they just told me at the end. So I get the whole bundling your boat and I just don't know who the audience was. Who was going to find that funny? I don't understand.

• Speaker #2

  Not only that, like who are the people saying boat wins? Like I'm imagining like five or six moms and dads wearing jerseys at a Buffalo Wild Wings yelling boat wins. Like why are you like, who are these people? It doesn't make any sense.

• Speaker #0

  So I'm hearing you guys say maybe we do the Mike Cesario liquid death scale of funny, funny versus advertising funny. This is solidly in the advertising funny camp.

• Speaker #1

  This is solidly in the advertising funny, but even advertising funny, because there are a lot of funny spots that are ad funny. I just don't want in this ad talking about boat wins. I'm trying to even decide what was the ad about?

• Speaker #0

  Well, here's the whole point of ad infinitum is that if you were in your car right now and you just heard that on the radio, this is illustrating the problem that I find with most audio ads. You only heard it once. You don't get to go back and play it again. No,

• Speaker #1

  I don't get to go back.

• Speaker #0

  It's over. So you're basically saying this one in and out.

• Speaker #1

  So I either would have shut it out as just extraneous noise or I actually would have gotten mad because I wanted to listen. I heard bundling. So I'm going to bundle my boat. Does the average person have a boat?

• Speaker #2

  But also, I think they're saying that the boat is such a money sink, it's going to take so much of your time away and money away. But, like, what is the insurance for? Like, is the boat going to sink?

• Speaker #0

  Let's do this. Let's listen to one of my favorites of all time, which is the Home Depot. Let's see how they showed up in the last month. Okay. And then we can maybe grade them against each other.

• Speaker #5

  Get ready for spring with the Home Depot and bring bright, colorful energy inside with projects to make your whole home feel like spring. Like livening your living spaces with a fresh coat of Behr Premium Plus paint starting at $28.98 for durable coverage in fun, vibrant colors for your walls and ceilings. It's never too early to start the season. There's a project you can tackle to get your home ready for spring, inside and out with the Home Depot. How doers get more done. In-store only, product varies by store, while supplies last.

• Speaker #0

  I just love that song.

• Speaker #1

  You know what? That didn't need to be funny. That is what it is.

• Speaker #0

  Right. Completely different.

• Speaker #1

  I get it. It's a different vibe. Home Depot, the spring colors, the painting. I see what it is. It is exactly what it needed to be. Even the voiceover artist, his voice had a welcoming inflection that I could picture him as the home designer.

• Speaker #0

  Maybe picture him as Josh Lucas, the actor.

• Speaker #1

  Was that Josh Lucas?

• Speaker #2

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, wow. That was Josh?

• Speaker #2

  Their voice.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, wow. It was very nice, very welcoming. Made me feel like, oh, yeah, these are the great callers in my home. That's the response that elicited. And that song was good. Ding, ding, ding. It made me bob my head.

• Speaker #2

  Once I go, this is a commercial to paint your house. Once that clicked, I stopped listening. Because that's what it was. Not in a bad way, but there was no hook. There was no ha. There was no little thing to keep that gnawing in my brain when I'm done. But I do know, if I came home, for example, and Leah, my wife, was like, hey. I want to paint up the house, I might go, oh, we go to Home Deep. Like, I would think of the commercial, but there was no funny hook still there.

• Speaker #1

  What if we did something like this? Branson, can you play something almost like that music? It's not every day that you're incarcerated, but when you are and you're thrown into a cell, cell can be a little dismal.

• Speaker #2

  This cell feels so gray.

• Speaker #1

  What if I told you that I could change these bars and these walls into something that would brighten your day as you await execution?

• Speaker #2

  Well, thank you, prisoner 18520419.

• Speaker #1

  I also happen to be a Home Depot color specialist.

• Speaker #2

  Hey, you've dug a hole right through the bottom of the cell.

• Speaker #1

  I have, using this Home Depot shovel that you could get for $5.99 on our brand new Labordale sale. We can spruce up these places that you call home or four walls.

• Speaker #2

  Aw, high five.

• Speaker #1

  Here you go. And here's a poster to put over that hole.

• Speaker #2

  Aw, thank you.

• Speaker #0

  Yay.

• Speaker #1

  Fun, straight to the point.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And a different angle for sure. Okay. So if you guys were rating Home Depot versus Progressive, or do you want to hear another one first before you rank order these guys?

• Speaker #1

  Let's hear another one. Yeah. Because now I think that the rating needs to be in terms of effectiveness versus, because I was looking for comedy, but in terms of effectiveness, like what sticks.

• Speaker #0

  So I will give you the audiolytic scores, which is the system we use to grade and advertisements potential for persuasiveness, which I will share those with you. But here we go. National Highway Safety Traffic Administration.

• Speaker #6

  Already exciting.

• Speaker #2

  Don't drive distracted. A message brought to you by iHeartRadio, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Project Yellow Light, and the Ad Council.

• Speaker #1

  And the ironic thing is someone had an accident as they reached down to turn up the radio because they were talking so much. And they reached down. So hooky.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Once again, just like with comedy, we talked in the beginning, music can hook you. I was there. I was there for it.

• Speaker #0

  I saw you go there. What was it about?

• Speaker #1

  It was about putting my phone on do not disturb.

• Speaker #0

  Now we're talking.

• Speaker #2

  The only thing that, like, the first time they went, da-da-da-da-da-da, sang the triplets, I would have repeated whatever they sang the first time, because I liked it so much, I wanted to hear it again. I wanted to hear some repeat of what they just sung. There was a little bit of me that's like, oh, this is cool, and this is vibey and R&B.

• Speaker #3

  Now here's a very, very right man who is now going to give authority to this spot.

• Speaker #2

  That was a little bit of a, oh, okay.

• Speaker #0

  But I did like it.

• Speaker #1

  If I had any critique or any criticism, and this just goes to, just like in comedy, whenever you're doing music, you want to be able to understand it. I had to listen. Because the way that it was in it, you got to. Make sure that we're really hearing every word clearly in the message that you're doing. But I thought it was really good.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Okay. So, so far, that's a standout.

• Speaker #2

  My favorite so far. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  And it's kind of interesting. I hadn't thought about this before. Each of these is taking a different approach. So you'll hear Discover takes yet another approach. and I had not noticed that until Ravunim. now with you guys. So let's see how Discover decided to show up with $1.7 million in March in radio.

• Speaker #7

  Oh, could this vintage store be any cuter? Right? And the best part? They accept Discover. Accept Discover? In a little place like this? I don't think so, Jennifer.

• Speaker #8

  Oh, yeah, huh? Discover's accepted where I like to shop. Come on, baby. Get with the times. Right. So we shouldn't get the parachute pants? These are making a comeback. I think.

• Speaker #9

  Discover is accepted at 99% of places that take credit cards nationwide. Based on the February 2024 Nielsen Report.

• Speaker #1

  I liked it.

• Speaker #2

  Tell me more.

• Speaker #1

  Did you like it?

• Speaker #2

  No. No one says, oh yeah, huh. And then also, it's so awkward to me when people say, say the names like you're in an improv scene of someone. Well, that's really funny there, Wayne. Like these friends have been hanging out for an hour before they walk in the store. They're not going to say each other's names.

• Speaker #1

  Listen,

• Speaker #2

  Jocelyn,

• Speaker #1

  I think I liked it because I'm not saying that I thought it was funny.

• Speaker #2

  That's okay.

• Speaker #1

  I do think that it achieved, because of that point of it sounding like a scene, it's a theater of the mind thing. So if you are the demo and if you are listening, it's a little slice of life. It's a little intimate. It's in your ear. You're hearing two friends shop. it evokes, oh, so when I'm in the store, maybe I'm the person that needs a Discover card. So this other person, yeah, it sounds familiar to me. So I think that there is a person who those two ladies may sound like they're friends. I believe that that was a very female-centric targeted ad. So when you add in the names and the naming, it's like listening to your girlfriends. It's an intimate thing.

• Speaker #2

  Here's a picture. Hey, Jennifer.

• Speaker #1

  Hey, Lenorel.

• Speaker #2

  Hey, look, I don't have any money to pay for all this stuff. I mean, I have a Discover card, but they probably don't take that, so we're just going to walk out.

• Speaker #1

  Wait a minute. Are you saying that we should shoplift?

• Speaker #2

  We probably should, because they're not going to take a Discovery card, right?

• Speaker #1

  Well, why don't we try, girl? Because I'm black, and I don't want to really try. That's dangerous as hell.

• Speaker #2

  You know, my husband is in prison. He just had the Wall Street painted from Home Depot.

• Speaker #1

  Did he really?

• Speaker #2

  He sure did.

• Speaker #1

  New Discover card for when prison just isn't in your future. That's a big swing that the discoverer will never take.

• Speaker #0

  The slice of life scenes is always an interesting choice. And Jonathan, I agree with you. Sometimes the way this stuff is written doesn't feel the way people talk. And there is like these conventions of using their name, which maybe is trying to do theater the mind because we're trying to distinguish the voices. But, you know, it's a balancing act.

• Speaker #2

  You're so right, Stu Redwine.

• Speaker #1

  But here is the thing, right? Just like in improv or movies or your writing, there are conventions. And there are things that when we hear them, we go, oh, because it's hack. But there is a person that will listen to that, that goes, oh, that's like my friends are there. There is that person.

• Speaker #2

  I feel like we're being good cop, bad cop. These ads. It's good, though. It's good.

• Speaker #0

  OK, so now we're coming into the final round here. First, let's listen to how ZipRecruiter is showing up with $3.1 million in March in their current creative.

• Speaker #10

  When you're hiring. Have you ever felt like you're missing out on meeting truly great candidates for your roles? It seems impossible to find them. They have to be out there somewhere, right? Well, they're not hard to find when you know where to go. And that place is ZipRecruiter. And right now, you can try ZipRecruiter for free at ZipRecruiter.com slash radio. ZipRecruiter helps 10 million people with their job search every day. And because these people are actively looking for jobs just like yours, it's easy to find the right person right away. In fact, four out of five employers who post on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate within the first day. But if you're not using ZipRecruiter, you're missing out. So see what it's like when the impossible is easy. When you go to ZipRecruiter.com slash radio right now to try ZipRecruiter for free. Once again, that's ZipRecruiter.com slash radio. ZipRecruiter.com slash radio. Never miss out on great candidates with ZipRecruiter.

• Speaker #1

  We will miss out because I would have tuned out. It's too long.

• Speaker #2

  Could have done it in a 30. That was a 60. Yeah. He's on so much Zoloft that he can't raise or lower his pitch beyond this mid-center.

• Speaker #1

  New ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter will help you find the person that you need to hire to talk like this to help you find somebody for ZipRecruiter. ZipRecruiter. We can find the people who can find the people.

• Speaker #2

  People who find people for people.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I would have tuned out so fast. It was too, too long. The only thing keeping it afloat for me was the music, which still wasn't...

• Speaker #2

  Didn't change the...

• Speaker #0

  It's like a Steven Soderbergh film.

• Speaker #2

  And then it stopped at one point. There was a music stop and he kept talking at the same... Like he didn't stop talking.

• Speaker #1

  Because the loop stopped.

• Speaker #2

  Wow.

• Speaker #1

  Because that garage band loop...

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, that's what that was.

• Speaker #1

  What would a ZipRecruiter ad sound like for us, you think?

• Speaker #2

  I got to find someone to do these jobs here.

• Speaker #1

  Hey, man, you know what? My wife got arrested. Trying to sneak out of a store instead of using her discovery card. And I want to break her out, but I don't know anybody to put together a crew.

• Speaker #2

  Hey, hey, you should talk to

• Speaker #1

  ZipRecruiter.com. You think that if I went to ZipRecruiter, I could find a driver, a demolitions expert, and someone to take care of the cameras and all the various electronics?

• Speaker #2

  Not only can you find them, you can hire them, and they can work at the place that you hired them for. Wow. That's what a job is.

• Speaker #1

  You know what? I'm with you. I'm going to use ZipRecruiter.

• Speaker #2

  Also, you can't say ZipRecruiter without zip.

• Speaker #1

  Nope.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, so that is fantastic. All right. So looking back, if you can even remember, it was ZipRecruiter. Pruder Discover, National Highway Traffic Safety Admin, The Home Depot, and Progressive. Who's the standout? The highway traffic, Ed.

• Speaker #2

  And they get extra points for being the hardest to make sexy. Like it's such a mouthful of boringness that they made into a message that we got and was fun.

• Speaker #0

  So it's a winner for both of you guys.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  but I'm trying to think who probably got the highest score with regular folks. Then I'd have to go, maybe it was like one of the talkier ones.

• Speaker #0

  Well, let me tell you what our performance framework scored them at. Yeah. Okay. The top ranked ad was actually ZipRecruiter.

• Speaker #1

  One of the talkier ones. Okay.

• Speaker #0

  It's also a B2B solution.

• Speaker #1

  You have a problem. We can take care of it like this.

• Speaker #0

  And that's where we come down on clarity has a cleverness all of its own. There's a social proof component to hearing something in a certain context or hearing it all the time that we as consumers, we as people in this environment associate a certain level of trust to someone that's able to afford that. So if you hear ZipRecruiter everywhere, all the time talking to you in what in testing has been revealed, a masculine voice, not so much anymore,

• Speaker #1

  but very authoritative voice.

• Speaker #2

  It's like the lab coat experiment or when they give them on a clipboard, you're going to hate this, but you'll remember it. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I don't even know if it's hating it. It's like, you're going to listen to me. because I have the authority to tell you that if you need something, this is where you go to get it. And we go, okay, which is the better version, I feel, of the version with the two ladies of the Discover. This one is, you need this, I've got the problem with this voice. The other one is, hey, we're women. Can I talk to you guys? We have a problem, but maybe we can help each other fix it.

• Speaker #2

  I would love to have heard. the rejected ZipRecruiter ideas. I know we can't, but I'd love to hear the agency say, we almost went with this, this, this, or this to compare them to what they went with just to see if it felt more creative or more fun or more funny.

• Speaker #0

  Well,

• Speaker #2

  that's definitely where we're going to end. We're going to end with their workhorse.

• Speaker #0

  I checked, it's still running on the radio. It's been running for a decade. I actually called my friend who was at ZipRecruiter. He had started shortly after it had started. I'm not going to tell you his name because I don't want to hear a song about him.

• Speaker #2

  Is it Brad? It's Brad.

• Speaker #0

  Now, I was this close to not mentioning that, but I wanted to honor Brad. So maybe it is time for me and Brad to reconnect.

• Speaker #2

  Love you, Brad. Yay. It's a happy ending.

• Speaker #0

  It seems like it is. Okay. So just so you guys know the rankings from a performance standpoint, ZipRecruiter would be number one. Progressive would be number two. Discover would be number three. Home Depot wouldn't be number four. National Highway Traffic Safety Administration would be number five.

• Speaker #1

  Makes complete sense, though, because going by the criteria that you're saying. If you're starting at number one with the clarity that there's a cleverness and the clarity of its own, then by the time you get down to a song where I need to listen to the song to hear the words, which is why I guess number three, it was the ones with the ladies. Because as soon as you start deviating from me to you communication to them to each other and you eavesdropping, then the clarity drops.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, and that's if you're going to be clever, you got to make sure you're really clever, you know, and sometimes with all this stuff, it comes down to reminding them that you exist so that when they have need of you, they're going to think of you. And that makes the case for being clear. So with that said, I love this spot because it always confounds creatives. It pretty much has all the aspects of cringe. Okay. Okay. And yet it has run for a decade. So and we're talking about I don't even know the millions of dollars behind it, but I know enough about ZipRecruiter. and the team at ZipRecruiter and how they approach this stuff and how we approach this stuff that there's no way this would still be running if it was not converting consistently. So that's very fascinating. And this was the one that I fantasized about you guys improving. So here we go.

• Speaker #11

  Finding great candidates to hire can be like, well, trying to find a needle in a haystack. Sure, you can post your job to some job board, but then all you can do is hope the right person comes along, which is why you should try ZipRecruiter. for free at ziprecruiter.com slash free. ZipRecruiter doesn't depend on candidates finding you. Its powerful technology identifies people with the right experience and actively invites them to apply to your job. You get qualified candidates fast. So while other companies might deliver a lot of hay, ZipRecruiter finds you what you're looking for, the needle in the haystack.

• Speaker #12

  Four out of five employers who post a job on ZipRecruiter get a quality candidate through is tight within the first day. ZipRecruiter. smartest way to hire. And right now you can find ZipRecruiter for free. That's right, free. Just go to this exclusive web address, ZipRecruiter.com slash free. That's ZipRecruiter.com slash free. ZipRecruiter.com slash free.

• Speaker #1

  Now knowing what you're saying about having to repeat it and it's super clear what they do. This is ZipRecruiter.com. I get it.

• Speaker #2

  I was transported into my car during. rush hour and it's rained an hour ago and now my windows are fogging up and I'm hot and I'm fiddling with the radio. Oh man.

• Speaker #0

  It's the needle in the haystack guys trying to find the right employees. A lot of companies are going to deliver a lot of hay, but they're going to help you find the needle in the haystack. And I feel like I could just hear like,

• Speaker #1

  someone thought that that was so clever, but sometimes you don't need to be. Plus the people that are making these decisions, ZipRecruiter isn't necessarily for everybody, right? It's really B2B. Right.

• Speaker #0

  It's for people that are hiring. And to your point, it's going to be like people that are hiring the cooks in the back, bunch of drivers.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly. So there's a certain person that I feel all these ads resonate with a certain person rarely. And maybe it's with consumable goods. And I'm talking like I know what the hell I'm talking about. But it seems like with more consumable goods, that's when you've got a general ad. Yes. That you throw up and throw out. are very tailored, specific ads. So sometimes the clever take on a hiring and a recruitment ad may not be the way to go if the guy who is hiring it sounds just like the guy who is doing this ad.

• Speaker #0

  He's like, that sounds like me.

• Speaker #1

  And his inflection was that sometimes you need to find the needle in the haystack. If that's the dude that is hiring, he doesn't want to jingle, you need a haystack, you need a needle. He doesn't want that.

• Speaker #0

  Well, and related to the point you had earlier about the two ladies talking, that sometimes we can outsmart our common sense or sort of, you know, it's David Ogilvie said, the customer's not an idiot. She's your wife. You know, needle in the haystack is a very effective metaphor. It's simple.

• Speaker #1

  We get it.

• Speaker #0

  A child would understand it. It's like maybe at a fourth grade reading level, which is what Stephen King writes at. It's a successful way to communicate.

• Speaker #2

  Yep.

• Speaker #0

  So sometimes I think we even forget that.

• Speaker #1

  We out clever ourselves sometimes.

• Speaker #0

  Hmm.

• Speaker #1

  Jonathan.

• Speaker #2

  It's completely free. That's right. Oh, you didn't ask? I thought I heard you ask. Because if you had, I would have said it's completely free.

• Speaker #1

  It's good. I mean, for what it is, I don't even know how we would improve that.

• Speaker #0

  With the jingle, with the needle in the haystack jingle is what I was hoping for.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, a needle in the haystack jingle. All right.

• Speaker #2

  I can't find anyone to do the job.

• Speaker #1

  Well, hey, hey, Maber! It's me! I came to do the job! I don't want you, I want better! Oh, who can do the job better than me? Um, excuse me, I believe that I can.

• Speaker #3

  Who are you?

• Speaker #1

  Ha ha, you'll see!

• Speaker #3

  You're my needle in a haystack!

• Speaker #1

  I'm the needle in the haystack! You're my needle in a haystack! You've been looking all day long! You're my needle in a haystack! You've been looking all day long! You're my needle in a haystack! I've been looking wrong! Sit,

• Speaker #3

  recruiter, I talk! Sit, recruiter!

• Speaker #1

  I found the needle and the needle is so sharp. And I can be your needle in the haystack or the flashlight for your company when it gets dark.

• Speaker #2

  It's free.

• Speaker #1

  It's free. At ZipRecruiter.com. And there we go.

• Speaker #0

  You did it, guys. Thank you. Wow.

• Speaker #1

  That poor guy didn't get the job.

• Speaker #0

  Poor guy. He worked with me. He was a piece of hay in the haystack.

• Speaker #1

  Hey, it's me.

• Speaker #0

  Guys, this has been incredible. You deliver the goods, that is for sure. In light of everything we've talked about, and then also just your experience, I mean, A, as entertainers and what you do professionally, but B, it's just people that are out there hearing ads, listening to podcasts. What advice do you have for the chief audio officers that are listening? Those are the folks that are the primary audience of this show, which are the people that are responsible for making dollars work in audio.

• Speaker #2

  I would say you got to take a risk. You have to take a risk. If you want to be the big success, you got to take a big risk.

• Speaker #1

  And my is a yes and to you, but it may sound a little different. Just like in songwriting, sometimes you got to keep it simple, stupid. Kiss, K-I-S-S. You keep it simple. It doesn't mean you can't take a risk, but make it such an undeniably simple idea that you take the risk and you swing, but we get it. We... get what the idea is. It doesn't have to be dressed up in flowers. It doesn't have to be the most clever thing ever written by mankind. Just keep it simple and give it to us.

• Speaker #0

  That is excellent advice. You know, what I want the chief audio officers to remember from today is funny isn't frivolous. It's effective when it's done right. And often that means leaving it to the professionals. There's opportunities to partner with shows like What If and give them the room to do what only they can do or potentially bring them in on the process. separately. Get real comedians and real people that know how to make this happen so you're not trying to be advertising funny. You're actually achieving Mike Cesario's funny, funny, like the reason why Liquid Death is a household name, why I'm wearing one of their watches. Humor builds emotional memory. It builds brand preference. It is a tool that you can use. And I think in light of all of this, you know, taking risks, keeping it simple. Don't be afraid to sound human. In fact, currently be afraid not to. There's only going to be more dull advertising that's going to be supercharged by AI. If humans have been so good at making 84% of all advertising not able to be remembered or correctly attributed to the brand, we now turn that over to intellect that's vastly superior to our own. You can only imagine. So keep it simple, keep it human, take big risks. And Wayne and Jonathan, thank you guys so much for hosting us here at HeadGum Studios at the What If Podcast. Where can people listen to you and learn more about what you're doing on Spotify,

• Speaker #2

  on Audible, on Apple Podcasts, on YouTube if you want a video too.

• Speaker #1

  Check us out on YouTube. Please subscribe. Follow us on our socials.

• Speaker #2

  At Jonathan Mangum on Insta.

• Speaker #1

  And at MrBradyBaby on Instagram and Facebook. Yeah, follow us for the funny.

• Speaker #2

  And Stu, call Brad.

• Speaker #1

  Please.

• Speaker #2

  I will. I commit to call Brad.

• Speaker #1

  Okay.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you guys. And to Brad and to the rest of our listeners, thank you for tuning in to Ad Infinitum. If you loved this episode, let us know with an honest five-star review. And if there's an audio ad or campaign you want us to break down, email me, stew at oxfordroad.com. And don't forget, check out the latest ad rankings and insights for podcast ads at magellan.ai slash ad infinitum for your free demo. And until next time, remember to have fun making the ads work.

• Speaker #13

  Zip.