51 - Laying the Groundwork: Environmental Activism in Latvia's Green Shift - Janis Brizga | Energ’Ethic - Climate Justice and Energy Transition

Description

Welcome to a new episode of the Energ' Ethic podcast, where we delve into the stories of those who cultivate the energy transition and harvest its benefits for a more sustainable future.

In today’s enlightening conversation, Janis Brizga, an environmental activist with roots in Latvia's movements since the Soviet era, shares how deeply ingrained values and ethical debates have grown into robust frameworks for today’s energy and environmental challenges.

Janis reflects on his journey from being part of the nascent environmental activism during the Soviet Union's collapse to embracing interdisciplinary approaches that combine academia, administration, and grassroots movements to address environmental challenges. He discusses the shift in Latvia's environmental movements from the passionate activism of the 1990s to more practical, utilitarian strategies today.

Exploring the theme of local energy reliance, Janis shares how Latvia's dependence on forest biomass for energy sparks significant debates on sustainability and conservation. He advocates for the integration of energy communities to bridge the gap between good intentions and actual energy solutions, highlighting both the potential and the challenges—such as low trust in institutions and lack of technical tools—that need overcoming to enhance energy democracy.

The conversation also covers how technological advancements and government policies are reshaping Latvia's energy production and consumption landscapes. Janis emphasizes the importance of making sustainable energy solutions accessible, especially for low-income groups, to foster inclusive community involvement.

Addressing public engagement, Janis confronts the myths and resistance surrounding new energy technologies like wind and solar power, underscoring the need for robust public engagement and trust building. He also celebrates the burgeoning permaculture movement in Latvia as a hopeful sign of sustainable living and local resource management.

Marine and Janis conclude with a discussion on energy citizenship initiatives, highlighting how these efforts contribute significantly to the European energy transition by integrating sustainable practices into daily lives and broader policy frameworks.

Join us as we uncover the narrative of change-makers like Janis Brizga, who nurture the seeds of sustainable development and cultivate the ground for a greener, more equitable future.

This episode is brought to you thanks to the generous sponsorship of EnergyPROSPECTS (PROactive Strategies and Policies for Energy Citizenship Transformation), European Commission Grant Agreement No. 101022492. EnergyPROSPECTS is a Horizon 2020 project that examines the potential of energy citizenship to contribute to the European energy transition.

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Reach out to Marine Cornelis via Twitter @MarineCornelis or LinkedIn
Music: I Need You Here - Kamarius
Edition: Podcast Media Factory

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Transcription

Speaker #0
Hello! Passionate about sustainability, energy and climate? You're in the right place. Welcome to Energetic. I'm Maureen Cornelis, and together we will engage with people who dedicate their lives to climate justice and making a just energy transition happen. They may be activists, scientists, policy makers or other enthusiasts, just like you. Let their life stories and insights inspire you to build a better future for people and the planet. Today's episode is proudly sponsored by the Energy Prospects Project. This Horizon 2020 initiative is at the forefront of exploring how energy citizenship can drive the European transition. In this new episode, we'll dive into the vital role of civic engagement in shaping a sustainable democratic energy system across Europe. Stay tuned as we unravel how citizens are not just consumers, but pivotal actors in this transformative journey. Our guest today is Yanis Breizhka, a linchpin in the realms of sustainable development and consumption at Green Liberty and the University of Latvia. His journey weaves through the dual threads of environmental science and public administration, showcasing a commitment to bridging academic rigor with actionable governance. Yanis's role from leading WWF Latvia environmental policy to his economic pursuits highlight a career dedicated to innovative solutions for a sustainable future. Yanis has been influential within several projects and Bankwatch Network, and he really champions interdisciplinary approaches to environmental challenges. I'm sure you will be as inspired as I am by his work. which propels the global conversation on sustainability and makes Yanis a key figure in shaping a greener and more equitable world. Yanis, welcome to Energetic.
Speaker #1
Hello.
Speaker #0
So let's start from the beginning. So your engagement with environmental advocacy and research started at a time when Latvia was kind of just opening to such concepts. So what did motivate you to embark on this path and how did this kind of early experience shape your current endeavours?
Speaker #1
Yeah. End of 80s, when Soviet Union was kind of collapsing and going through the transitional period, environmental movement started to kind of develop and grow in many of the Eastern European countries, including Latvia. And that was maybe one of the ways how actually people could gather, talk and debate some kind of political issues, but through this environmental lens. Now, At that time, in Riga, for example, there were several big demonstrations on environmental concerns, gathering tens of thousands of people against some kind of development projects at that time. So it was not possible to mobilize people on political grounds, but the environment was okay. And that was also the time that many people started to kind of joining the movement because it was, yeah, many people were joining in. I was a teenager at the time, so I was also getting involved in this environmental debate. But if we look now and compare, I think... Yeah, environmental movement in the 80s and 90s was much more about values and more ethical debates. Now it's more, I don't know, utilitarian, looking at lifestyles. What can you do at household level to improve your environmental performance, decrease energy consumption? So it's much more practical now when it was compared to what it was in the 90s.
Speaker #0
That's really, really interesting because the other day, for whatever reason, I was listening to Manu Chao. You remember at the end of the 90s, early 2000s, he was one of the voices behind this kind of movement about uniting people wherever they are, whatever the language they speak. And his songs, at the time at least, they were very much about like respecting nature and etc but it was never very practical and what you say about like this kind of now we have a more utilitarian approach And for instance, if we continue with music, with bands like Coldplay, who tries to mobilize on climate through their concert, it's true that it's quite a shift, right? It's really interesting to see it from your perspective, because I thought it was only me. Like, what did happen? There was something. There was a different conversation. So you noticed it. And I think what's really interesting is that you noticed it as an activist somehow, and also in academia and also in administration, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, well, I mean, I started working for environmental organizations in the 90s, and there was a lot of discussions about sustainable development at the time, you know, after the Rio conference in 1992, which was just after the Latvian independence, and also on the political level. All kind of debates about how we should organize the governance processes for not only for environment, for everything. There was a lot of discussion about this balance between economic development, environmental protection and social justice equality. And these were in 90s, at least in that way, not very easy debate because... Of course, the dominant focus was for economic growth. It's still there. I think it's still there. For catching up with the rest of Western Europe in terms of material wealth, now we can see that most of the environmental impacts are because of this rush for material welfare of the society. We consume way too much energy and resources and build our wealth on converting environmental resources into goods and products and services for short-term consumption. And this is still a problematic issue. Yeah, the debate never disappeared. No, it's still there.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it has shifted in many, many different ways because the situation is totally different now from then. But when we prepared this podcast, you also told me that Latvia still relies a lot on forest biomass for its energy well-being. So it presents quite a unique challenge. And I mean... Biomass, of course, it's somehow renewables, but can you tell us more about the Latvian forest and why it does matter that it is actually preserved or conserved in a certain way?
Speaker #1
Yeah, this is one of the biggest, maybe, nature conservation debates in Latvia about the forest sustainability. And generally, Latvia's energy sector is, you could say, rather green. No, we don't have any local fossil fuels, fossil resources, no coal or oil. So then we are depending on external resources. We are using natural gas. There is no coal for heat and power production. Daugava River, which is the biggest river, has several hydroelectric dams, which were built during the Soviet time. But otherwise, there is very little fossil fuel. So in terms of energy production, the CO2 emissions are comparatively small. And we have a very big share of renewable energy. It's more than 40% of the... Electricity is produced from the renewables, including the biomass. The biomass makes a big part of that. And also, especially for heating in rural areas and smaller towns, the heating is provided through the biomass power plants or CHP plants. And the country is covered with forests. More than half of the country's territory is forest. And it's one of the big... export products for also energy wise we are also exporting wood pellets to other countries for energy production so latvia is i think top five biomass exporters for for energy and that's of course causes yeah big debates about the sustainability and how sustainably are we managing our forests Previously, before the war in Ukraine, Latvia was importing also forest biomass from Russia and Belarus for local production and then export of the products. So now it's closed and the forest industry is really lacking the resources to convert into product. So that's been a big pressure to increase the extraction of the Latvian forest. And just a few weeks ago, the environmental movement won the court case against the government, the constitutional court against that, so that the government wanted to decrease the diameter of trees to be allowed for cutting. So that was a big win. But yeah, I guess the fight is not really... ended with this. There will be other ways how to try to use this natural resource. And I think it's very similar like in other countries where you have, I don't know, Poland with big coal deposits or similar in Germany. It's not very easy to kind of stop using these resources and say, no, we keep them for environmental or natural conservation or sustainability purposes or for recreational purposes. Because the... Many people see it as money lying down on the ground. You can just get it and use it. The same for oil. Many countries which are rich in oil deposits, it will be very hard to convince them to leave these resources in the ground because of climate change or other reasons. I'm rather pessimistic, aren't we? How are we going to convince these countries or companies not to extract the resources they have?
Speaker #0
Yeah, that's very, very interesting. I've heard of situations, for instance, in Costa Rica, where there are some international groups that want to pay. the countries and the landowners to not cut the lands, not cut the trees and be sure that to preserve the land because it has a value the way it is because the trees are carbon sinks and they are part of a broader ecosystem and a broader conservation strategy. And I mean, that's a very nice transition to the... concept of energy communities that you've been working on, including with the Energy Prospect project. You also told me that energy cooperatives or maybe cooperatives in general, they are relatively uncommon in the Baltic states, in particular in Latvia. So from your experience, first, what are the main hurdles? And second, would they be a way for people to... better acknowledge that they have resources somehow that they need to preserve for them, for their kids and for their grandkids as well.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I think that's one of the problems for most of the post-Soviet countries when cooperatives had collective farms for agriculture, which was not a very efficient way of production. And most of the people were not very, maybe, happy by being engaged in that. So we have these negative connotations. The whole concept of cooperative business or cooperative management of resources. And also currently there is very few cooperatives or cooperative activities in Latvia and other Baltic states. And I believe this is one of the reasons because of this kind of historical inheritance. There are some cooperatives for farmers when they are sharing the tractors and some equipment. some other cooperatives maybe but it's not a common movement, not a movement with history like in many other countries where the cooperative movement started in the beginning already of the 20th century or even the end of 19th century. And it's become the part of the business as usual for many cases. then it's also easy to go maybe from agricultural cooperative to energy cooperative because it's even more complicated. Energy system as well has been something which has been very centralized most of the time. So both the energy production and energy distribution has been in the hands of the state. The big energy production companies or state grid, which people were just... final consumers. You pay the bill and you get the energy. There was no need for public engagement in debates or in some kind of practical activities around energy. You could complain when it's too expensive maybe or you have the blackouts or product is not provided. But otherwise, there was no need for engagement. Now, I think the situation has significantly changed Both technologically, we have technologies like for example solar panels which everyone can put on their rooftops. There's been a very big development during last few years in Latvia after the Russian war in Ukraine. All the governmental debate shifted to move away from the gas, which we mostly supplied from Russia, and oil, which was also mostly from Russia, to find other ways of producing energy. One way would be to substitute with gas from somewhere else, like LTG from the US or some other countries, but also increase the local production. There was a... The subsidy system introduced to install solar panels and heat pumps and some other technologies. So a lot of people during the last two years have used this opportunity. And now we have, I think, tripled the solar power production compared to a few years ago. It's been a very big shift in public engagement. There are a lot of consumers, people who produce energy at home. Energy market has been also liberalized. So you can also, if you are not producing energy, you can also choose from different providers, both the heat and gas and power consumption. So you have to follow different prices. You have to think much more about your energy habits, your practices. Energy costs have also significantly increased during these few years. So people have to be engaged in energy debates and practices. And that's a good ground for energy citizenship, because you are pushed into the energy citizen in a way by these economic structural changes which we see. during these last years. And my concern is that... Maybe not all the people are ready for that. There are a lot of people who are passive in energy prospects. We also run a representative public survey which showed that most of the people don't really want to be so much engaged in these discussions. They just want to have green, cheap, reliable energy and they don't want to think about these things. And my concern is that these people will be losing out because they will be paying more than necessary for these energy services. They will not choose the right energy products. They will not engage in energy production. So that could increase the energy poverty, which is already comparatively high in a country where some people cannot afford the high energy costs.
Speaker #0
That's really interesting because what you're saying is that essentially more and more people are interested in green energy and understanding that it matters. And they also want cheap energy, which is, of course, also one of the promises of renewables, that it could provide really cheap energy. However, they may not really have the tools or the means to understand how to make that really happen to them. And somehow there is like a discrepancy between the... the intention and what the utilities, traditional utilities and governments are actually delivering, which is not a service that is 100% green and 100% cheap for everyone. And that's where there is an opportunity for energy communities to actually fill this gap, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, energy communities is something which is in infancy still. It's something which is, we see the potential for these energy communities to develop. There is legal work done by the government to actually describe the possibilities, how these energy communities can develop, can function. But there are still only a few examples we could look at for the energy communities. There are several municipalities we've been talking to which say that they're really looking forward ways how to get support for the people, for local communities to use this possibility. One example would be In many, many bigger towns in Latvia, people live in bigger multi-apartment buildings. Built maybe in the 70s during the Soviet era. They had big potential, for example, for solar production on their rooftops. But what we are missing, we are missing good technical tools. For sharing both the energy and also then the costs and income from this production. And an additional barrier which we see is very low trust of public. There is generally very little trust in institutions, in government, in politicians. People don't trust also that today decisions by the government, if the government says, okay, we want to support energy communities, that it will be lasting, that after five or three years we'll be on the same track because people maybe see too much variations in where we are moving if we look back 10 to maybe 15 years. And that's a limiting factor for people to get engaged and to participate in these kind of movements. One more thing with the multi-apartment buildings is that, which is a good thing and a bad thing at the same time, is that in these buildings, we don't have a high... public segregation. So there could be affluent people, rich people living there, there could be pensioners with a few hundred euro pensions living in the same building. And it's very hard for these people to agree on something together. It's not just for energy communities, it's also for housing insulation projects that these people are so different. They have different means and different knowledge levels. And also maybe the trust between them is not very high because they see each other from different social groups and don't want to engage. So yeah, I listed several problems and challenges. But I still think that energy communities is a good way forward, also for decreasing the energy poverty. for many of the communities. And we have to work with these kind of tools to make it easier, to make it more practical, and also to develop... A few good examples. People really trust in examples, in good examples. If they see that the neighboring house or neighboring community has done something and it's working and they can go and talk to each other in the park and then see that it's really working and people are happy about the result, then it's a much more bigger chance for the ideas to spread.
Speaker #0
That's really interesting because you mentioned trust really several times, like low trust in administration, in government, low trust in utilities, low trust in your own neighbor because they may have a totally different social background. I mean, the fact that there are a lot of social... differences within the same building can be quite inspiring also. But it's somehow a forced situation. And there are some examples that I have myself worked on about really improving the quality of the building because it's one of the key ways to address energy poverty. And some people who are not able to pay were actually leaving the buildings because they just couldn't afford it. And they were... they were against going against the tide and they were not benefit this way. They were not their choice or their inability to make a choice or make an investment was actually impairing their ability to live a more sustainable, resilient lifestyle as well. And somehow the fact that you see hope also in... examples coming from other communities. It's also what Adina said in the previous episode. It's also that sometimes you just need to start the conversation in a certain way. And maybe you start the conversation by noticing something that is happening in another community, right? And in her case, she mentioned a lot of environmental friendly projects that had nothing to do with energy. But at the end of the day, they were all related to energy, right? It's like the important is to what matters is to have really a starting point. So what kind of strategies? Because within the Energy Prospects project, you have talked to many stakeholders. You have assessed a lot of situations. So what kind of strategy or... models would you like to bring home to Latvia? And would you think that would make a huge difference in fostering environmental sustainability and cooperation between the different people with different backgrounds, with the different stakeholders we have at stake? Because it's not only about households, right? It's about creating the right ecosystem.
Speaker #1
Yeah, through the energy prospect, we have collected more than 500 cases of energy citizenship across Europe. And there are plenty of good examples which we would be happy to bring home. Many of the energy citizenship examples also focuses on not only on energy but also on social aspects, getting maybe more disadvantaged social groups involved in energy production. And some of the... Some of the initiatives around transportation, I think, would be very important also for Latvia, because in our survey of the energy citizenship cases, we couldn't really identify much of the energy citizenship in a field of transport. But transport is one of the big energy consumers. And if in the heat and power sectors we can... easily find ways to replace by renewables or improve efficiency, then the transportation sector, the best thing would be to move to public transport. But that's more or less a possibility for urban people. But in rural areas, we have a very low population density and there is a very poor... public transportation service network provided so rural people without car are really disabled for for getting access to the to the public services like i don't know getting to the hospital or the shop for the car is uh is uh impossible and and that wouldn't also mean this People, they wouldn't have money to buy electric cars, which are much more expensive, even if the government is currently providing the subsidy scheme. But many of these existing government initiatives, like I mentioned, for solar panels, for heat pumps, for electric cars. They are meant for people with income, with rather high incomes, who can afford the upfront investment costs. They have knowledge on how to... how to apply for projects and so on. And then they can get the money back. Part of the money gets from the government. But this is not really designed for people with lower income. And there is a big, I think there is a big gap there for Latvia. Energy poverty is still a big problem. And we don't really provide good solutions, good instruments. And different energy citizenship initiatives, low-tech solutions, things like building your own solar collectors or things like that could be a good way, low-cost, low-tech ways of helping people to get... energy services they need in a kind of environmentally sustainable way. So I think there is a lot of work to do. There are many NGOs who are actually doing these things, but this usually is kind of case by case. It's not really a societal movement. It's just individual cases.
Speaker #0
So that's where this kind of community has to go beyond really a structured community of people such as a cooperative, but really go with the community of people who want to shape the future together. And I think somehow it's the conversation that happens actually. Everywhere, anywhere I bring my podcast, I receive feedbacks like that. Like we need to bring people on board and sometimes it works really well because we have a common ground. And some other times it's because we have a common enemy. Well, it's not that shiny, but that is the case. But really, it's about really finding things that... talk to to to really manage to to to reach people in the way that they they feel that they have to do something and so what do you think latvia would need really to accelerate its transition towards cleaner more sustainable consumption way and and cleaner energy what would it need really yeah i think that's a that's a big uh big question but um I believe that there is... There is a need for stronger public engagement in looking for these solutions and visions. Moving away from seeing public as a kind of passive consumer, but looking into this citizenship, that takes time. It's not maybe a short-term approach or short-term decisions. It's not that... the next year or everybody will be engaged but we have to we have to demonstrate these these good examples we have to provide simple understandable solutions both technological but in terms of kind of organizational solutions and and that could be helpful way way forward you As I mentioned, there are many NGOs who are working, and I think civil society is a good way forward, because, like I mentioned, there is low trust in government, and civil society is much more trusted. Engaging research in finding these good solutions, I think, is also... kind of crucial. There are different research programs, but sometimes they, yeah, maybe we focus too much on this fundamental research and not really try to look for these practical solutions for specific communities. There is also a lot of myths around energy production and consumption. There is a Many people who believe in all kinds of conspiracy theories around that, and especially for wind energy, for example, and for something else that shows this public awareness level on some of these issues.
Speaker #1
That's really super interesting and I didn't know that there were any kind of conspiracy, right? It's so hard for me to fathom that I can't pronounce the word. I didn't know that there were any conspiracy against wind energy because it seems like, I mean... From what I know about Baltic countries, you have also some neighbors who are quite pioneering in using more wind in their grids. And that seems to be quite straightforward somehow. And also because you are very north, so I would imagine that solar energy sometimes is not working as well as it does in more southern countries. So, you know, it seems really from an outsider perspective, wind looks way more. suitable somehow really uh really i don't know anything about latvia and you know i would imagine that it fits better to to the actual climate but but now you say it is like oh wow so if people don't are on themselves believing that well it creates i mean there is this enormous awareness gap that needs to be that needs to be addressed right yeah yeah i mean in summer we have the white night so the sun all almost 20 hours a day but
Speaker #0
But it's just maybe a few weeks. Like you said, winter months are very dark and there is very little solar production. But there is a huge wind energy potential. I mean, Baltic states are bought by the sea, so there is also offshore wind energy potential in the Baltic Sea. But there is a very big, not in my backyard, There is a resistance movement for wind park developments in Latvia and that's why the wind energy is very poorly developed. There are a few projects also going in offshore and also there. Local coastal communities are campaigning against the wind turbines, which would be maybe... 10-15 kilometers in the sea, but people say that would destroy their special view and all kind of things which I think are mostly grounded in that we don't know or there are some other interests from maybe competing energy producers to not to develop the wind energy. There is one more project now in Latvia where Latvian State Energy Company and Latvian State Forests are developing a joint project to build the wind farms in the forest because there is no people. So there is no one to complain. Of course, that's maybe not the best way from an environmental perspective because you have to cut the forests to put up the wind turbines there. But yeah, it seems to be the best forward-going project currently because there is little people to complain about this project because they are further away from anyone. So that's unfortunately the reality for some of the technological solutions. But we don't always have to rely on technology. We have to think more about the sufficiency of energy consumption and maybe also look into these latent forms of energy citizenship for those who are shifting from gas to solar or something else. But those who are looking for ways not to consume energy so much as they did for like energy diets of the future. And we are over consuming energy in many ways. And in the future, we have to think much more how to conserve energy, how to not over consume it and conserve it. And that's that's also not not very easy way forward because Many of these visions about the future energy and sustainable energy says that we have a lot of renewable, cheap, green, affordable. But I think we will be getting into other... problems with access of resources, for example, biomass, which we already discussed in Latvia or in other countries, but also solar energy or electric cars need a lot of mineral resources to provide. I don't think that we can get an electric car for every inhabitant on the planet. No, we will not be able to provide so much energy. so much resources and even if we have it know that there will be huge traffic jams all all over the place so we have to look for other ways how to how to actually uh get what uh what we want not to get these energy services uh which are which are needed and and what we expect from life from what is a good life in general now that it's a much bigger picture and bigger question maybe going out of the energy the bed but uh but uh Yeah, generally the debate about the good life and sustainable consumption corridors is also something which we are looking into. How much is enough so that it's enough for you to satisfy your kind of basic needs, but you are also not killing the planet by it.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and that's definitely the principles behind sufficiency rather than really efficiency, making sure that it works better. But actually, it also delivers better within the... the best limits of our planet and really to make sure that, let's say, the energy climate transition that we need don't deplete other resources, especially in other places or countries. So, I mean, it's been a super fascinating conversation, Yanis, but we are arriving at the very end. So, but I would like to leave really the floor to you because, I mean, you have such an interesting double hat as an activist with Green Liberty and as a researcher with the University of Latvia. So is there one thing that really makes you hopeful about Latvia or some? Yeah, really good example that you would like to share. Yeah, let's say if somebody wants to get inspired by Latvia, what would you like them to keep in mind?
Speaker #0
I think there are many good examples which we could look at. There are permaculture, for example, movement, which is, I think, getting popularity where people are looking into these simple solutions, something which you can do it by yourself for providing. Both housing, food and energy, which really follow the sufficiency principles we just discussed, that you're not really over-consuming resources. You're looking for local resources which are available in the community to build your well-being. So there are many, many of these, you can say, crazy people who are trying to... find other ways on how to live their lives. And I think that's inspiring. That may be not the mainstream now. I think it's very important that we have communities and organizations who are doing these social experiments and testing out these solutions. And I hope also inspire other people and could kind of encourage this ripple effect on getting other more people engaged. Scaling up many of these energy citizenship initiatives. I'm learning also from other countries how they've been doing and I'm looking forward to this process to take ground.
Speaker #1
That's really amazing. I mean, with Etina in the previous episode, we concluded that she was actually a rebel. She had rebel ideas, but you do also have rebel ideas. And you know, I didn't know that Energy Prospects was actually a project to... With Rebels, about Rebel ideas, that's truly inspiring. And really today I learned a lot. So thank you so much for this super insightful discussion. And I would like also to thank the Energy Prospect project managers and team. Thank you for making this episode possible. They have been our sponsor for these two episodes, 50 and 51. And now we're going to have also the following episode, the last part of the series. So we will further explore the impact of energy citizenship in the urban energy transition. So please stay tuned and join us next time to continue uncovering the significant strides. being made towards achieving the EU climate ambition, maybe with the rebel lens. Who knows? Thank you so much, Yanis.
Speaker #2
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Energetic. It's been a pleasure diving deep into the world of sustainability and the just energy transition with some of the most forward-thinking mouths out there. I'm Maureen Canales, your host from policy consultancy Next Energy Consumer, and it's been an incredible journey growing this podcast together with you, our knowledgeable and passionate listeners. Since 2021, we've shared countless stories, insights, and ideas over more than 40 episodes. And it's all thanks to your support and enthusiasm. If you're enjoying our journey so far and want to help us keep the conversation going, why not support us on Patreon? Every bit helps us bring more inspiring content your way. Check out the show notes for the link. And hey, if you're a part of an organization that shares our passion for a sustainable and inclusive energy future, we're excited to explore sponsorship opportunities with you. It's a fantastic way to connect with a dedicated audience and make an even bigger impact together. Shout out to the fantastic Igor Mikhailovich from Podcast Media Factory for his incredible sound design work, making every episode a joy to listen to. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to Energetic on your favorite podcast platform. And if you think a friend or a colleague could benefit from our episode, we'd love for you to spread the word. It helps us grow and keep the energy transition conversation alive. Sharing is caring. Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn to stay engaged and update on all things Energetic. Thanks once again for lending your ears. Until next time.
Speaker #3
I need your touch, I need you here, I need your touch, I need you here in my body. I need your touch, I need you here in my body.

About Energ’Ethic - Climate Justice and Energy Transition

At Energ'Ethic, we're not just talking about change: we're driving it.

A first-of-its-kind podcast, our host, Marine Cornelis, invites the heroes and leaders of the sustainability movement. We dive into real stories, from innovative energy solutions to creating smart, inclusive communities and cities - always putting people at the centre.

We need to break boundaries and foster a diversity of viewpoints to build resilient energy and climate transition strategies that serve humanity.

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About Energ’Ethic - Climate Justice and Energy Transition

At Energ'Ethic, we're not just talking about change: we're driving it.

We need to break boundaries and foster a diversity of viewpoints to build resilient energy and climate transition strategies that serve humanity.

Listen to:

- Hear inspiring personal stories and unique perspectives.

- Discover solutions in energy and climate justice.

- Connect with a passionate community driving sustainable change.

Support Energ'Ethic and amplify your impact. Partner with us to reach an engaged audience committed to a sustainable future.

Ready to Make a Difference?

Listen, subscribe, and join us in turning conversations into actions for a just and sustainable world.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

Welcome to a new episode of the Energ' Ethic podcast, where we delve into the stories of those who cultivate the energy transition and harvest its benefits for a more sustainable future.

Join us as we uncover the narrative of change-makers like Janis Brizga, who nurture the seeds of sustainable development and cultivate the ground for a greener, more equitable future.

Keep up to date with new episodes straight from your inbox: https://podcast.ausha.co/energ-ethic-climate-justice-and-energy-transition?s=1

Reach out to Marine Cornelis via Twitter @MarineCornelis or LinkedIn
Music: I Need You Here - Kamarius
Edition: Podcast Media Factory

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Transcription

Speaker #0
Hello! Passionate about sustainability, energy and climate? You're in the right place. Welcome to Energetic. I'm Maureen Cornelis, and together we will engage with people who dedicate their lives to climate justice and making a just energy transition happen. They may be activists, scientists, policy makers or other enthusiasts, just like you. Let their life stories and insights inspire you to build a better future for people and the planet. Today's episode is proudly sponsored by the Energy Prospects Project. This Horizon 2020 initiative is at the forefront of exploring how energy citizenship can drive the European transition. In this new episode, we'll dive into the vital role of civic engagement in shaping a sustainable democratic energy system across Europe. Stay tuned as we unravel how citizens are not just consumers, but pivotal actors in this transformative journey. Our guest today is Yanis Breizhka, a linchpin in the realms of sustainable development and consumption at Green Liberty and the University of Latvia. His journey weaves through the dual threads of environmental science and public administration, showcasing a commitment to bridging academic rigor with actionable governance. Yanis's role from leading WWF Latvia environmental policy to his economic pursuits highlight a career dedicated to innovative solutions for a sustainable future. Yanis has been influential within several projects and Bankwatch Network, and he really champions interdisciplinary approaches to environmental challenges. I'm sure you will be as inspired as I am by his work. which propels the global conversation on sustainability and makes Yanis a key figure in shaping a greener and more equitable world. Yanis, welcome to Energetic.
Speaker #1
Hello.
Speaker #0
So let's start from the beginning. So your engagement with environmental advocacy and research started at a time when Latvia was kind of just opening to such concepts. So what did motivate you to embark on this path and how did this kind of early experience shape your current endeavours?
Speaker #1
Yeah. End of 80s, when Soviet Union was kind of collapsing and going through the transitional period, environmental movement started to kind of develop and grow in many of the Eastern European countries, including Latvia. And that was maybe one of the ways how actually people could gather, talk and debate some kind of political issues, but through this environmental lens. Now, At that time, in Riga, for example, there were several big demonstrations on environmental concerns, gathering tens of thousands of people against some kind of development projects at that time. So it was not possible to mobilize people on political grounds, but the environment was okay. And that was also the time that many people started to kind of joining the movement because it was, yeah, many people were joining in. I was a teenager at the time, so I was also getting involved in this environmental debate. But if we look now and compare, I think... Yeah, environmental movement in the 80s and 90s was much more about values and more ethical debates. Now it's more, I don't know, utilitarian, looking at lifestyles. What can you do at household level to improve your environmental performance, decrease energy consumption? So it's much more practical now when it was compared to what it was in the 90s.
Speaker #0
That's really, really interesting because the other day, for whatever reason, I was listening to Manu Chao. You remember at the end of the 90s, early 2000s, he was one of the voices behind this kind of movement about uniting people wherever they are, whatever the language they speak. And his songs, at the time at least, they were very much about like respecting nature and etc but it was never very practical and what you say about like this kind of now we have a more utilitarian approach And for instance, if we continue with music, with bands like Coldplay, who tries to mobilize on climate through their concert, it's true that it's quite a shift, right? It's really interesting to see it from your perspective, because I thought it was only me. Like, what did happen? There was something. There was a different conversation. So you noticed it. And I think what's really interesting is that you noticed it as an activist somehow, and also in academia and also in administration, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, well, I mean, I started working for environmental organizations in the 90s, and there was a lot of discussions about sustainable development at the time, you know, after the Rio conference in 1992, which was just after the Latvian independence, and also on the political level. All kind of debates about how we should organize the governance processes for not only for environment, for everything. There was a lot of discussion about this balance between economic development, environmental protection and social justice equality. And these were in 90s, at least in that way, not very easy debate because... Of course, the dominant focus was for economic growth. It's still there. I think it's still there. For catching up with the rest of Western Europe in terms of material wealth, now we can see that most of the environmental impacts are because of this rush for material welfare of the society. We consume way too much energy and resources and build our wealth on converting environmental resources into goods and products and services for short-term consumption. And this is still a problematic issue. Yeah, the debate never disappeared. No, it's still there.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it has shifted in many, many different ways because the situation is totally different now from then. But when we prepared this podcast, you also told me that Latvia still relies a lot on forest biomass for its energy well-being. So it presents quite a unique challenge. And I mean... Biomass, of course, it's somehow renewables, but can you tell us more about the Latvian forest and why it does matter that it is actually preserved or conserved in a certain way?
Speaker #1
Yeah, this is one of the biggest, maybe, nature conservation debates in Latvia about the forest sustainability. And generally, Latvia's energy sector is, you could say, rather green. No, we don't have any local fossil fuels, fossil resources, no coal or oil. So then we are depending on external resources. We are using natural gas. There is no coal for heat and power production. Daugava River, which is the biggest river, has several hydroelectric dams, which were built during the Soviet time. But otherwise, there is very little fossil fuel. So in terms of energy production, the CO2 emissions are comparatively small. And we have a very big share of renewable energy. It's more than 40% of the... Electricity is produced from the renewables, including the biomass. The biomass makes a big part of that. And also, especially for heating in rural areas and smaller towns, the heating is provided through the biomass power plants or CHP plants. And the country is covered with forests. More than half of the country's territory is forest. And it's one of the big... export products for also energy wise we are also exporting wood pellets to other countries for energy production so latvia is i think top five biomass exporters for for energy and that's of course causes yeah big debates about the sustainability and how sustainably are we managing our forests Previously, before the war in Ukraine, Latvia was importing also forest biomass from Russia and Belarus for local production and then export of the products. So now it's closed and the forest industry is really lacking the resources to convert into product. So that's been a big pressure to increase the extraction of the Latvian forest. And just a few weeks ago, the environmental movement won the court case against the government, the constitutional court against that, so that the government wanted to decrease the diameter of trees to be allowed for cutting. So that was a big win. But yeah, I guess the fight is not really... ended with this. There will be other ways how to try to use this natural resource. And I think it's very similar like in other countries where you have, I don't know, Poland with big coal deposits or similar in Germany. It's not very easy to kind of stop using these resources and say, no, we keep them for environmental or natural conservation or sustainability purposes or for recreational purposes. Because the... Many people see it as money lying down on the ground. You can just get it and use it. The same for oil. Many countries which are rich in oil deposits, it will be very hard to convince them to leave these resources in the ground because of climate change or other reasons. I'm rather pessimistic, aren't we? How are we going to convince these countries or companies not to extract the resources they have?
Speaker #0
Yeah, that's very, very interesting. I've heard of situations, for instance, in Costa Rica, where there are some international groups that want to pay. the countries and the landowners to not cut the lands, not cut the trees and be sure that to preserve the land because it has a value the way it is because the trees are carbon sinks and they are part of a broader ecosystem and a broader conservation strategy. And I mean, that's a very nice transition to the... concept of energy communities that you've been working on, including with the Energy Prospect project. You also told me that energy cooperatives or maybe cooperatives in general, they are relatively uncommon in the Baltic states, in particular in Latvia. So from your experience, first, what are the main hurdles? And second, would they be a way for people to... better acknowledge that they have resources somehow that they need to preserve for them, for their kids and for their grandkids as well.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I think that's one of the problems for most of the post-Soviet countries when cooperatives had collective farms for agriculture, which was not a very efficient way of production. And most of the people were not very, maybe, happy by being engaged in that. So we have these negative connotations. The whole concept of cooperative business or cooperative management of resources. And also currently there is very few cooperatives or cooperative activities in Latvia and other Baltic states. And I believe this is one of the reasons because of this kind of historical inheritance. There are some cooperatives for farmers when they are sharing the tractors and some equipment. some other cooperatives maybe but it's not a common movement, not a movement with history like in many other countries where the cooperative movement started in the beginning already of the 20th century or even the end of 19th century. And it's become the part of the business as usual for many cases. then it's also easy to go maybe from agricultural cooperative to energy cooperative because it's even more complicated. Energy system as well has been something which has been very centralized most of the time. So both the energy production and energy distribution has been in the hands of the state. The big energy production companies or state grid, which people were just... final consumers. You pay the bill and you get the energy. There was no need for public engagement in debates or in some kind of practical activities around energy. You could complain when it's too expensive maybe or you have the blackouts or product is not provided. But otherwise, there was no need for engagement. Now, I think the situation has significantly changed Both technologically, we have technologies like for example solar panels which everyone can put on their rooftops. There's been a very big development during last few years in Latvia after the Russian war in Ukraine. All the governmental debate shifted to move away from the gas, which we mostly supplied from Russia, and oil, which was also mostly from Russia, to find other ways of producing energy. One way would be to substitute with gas from somewhere else, like LTG from the US or some other countries, but also increase the local production. There was a... The subsidy system introduced to install solar panels and heat pumps and some other technologies. So a lot of people during the last two years have used this opportunity. And now we have, I think, tripled the solar power production compared to a few years ago. It's been a very big shift in public engagement. There are a lot of consumers, people who produce energy at home. Energy market has been also liberalized. So you can also, if you are not producing energy, you can also choose from different providers, both the heat and gas and power consumption. So you have to follow different prices. You have to think much more about your energy habits, your practices. Energy costs have also significantly increased during these few years. So people have to be engaged in energy debates and practices. And that's a good ground for energy citizenship, because you are pushed into the energy citizen in a way by these economic structural changes which we see. during these last years. And my concern is that... Maybe not all the people are ready for that. There are a lot of people who are passive in energy prospects. We also run a representative public survey which showed that most of the people don't really want to be so much engaged in these discussions. They just want to have green, cheap, reliable energy and they don't want to think about these things. And my concern is that these people will be losing out because they will be paying more than necessary for these energy services. They will not choose the right energy products. They will not engage in energy production. So that could increase the energy poverty, which is already comparatively high in a country where some people cannot afford the high energy costs.
Speaker #0
That's really interesting because what you're saying is that essentially more and more people are interested in green energy and understanding that it matters. And they also want cheap energy, which is, of course, also one of the promises of renewables, that it could provide really cheap energy. However, they may not really have the tools or the means to understand how to make that really happen to them. And somehow there is like a discrepancy between the... the intention and what the utilities, traditional utilities and governments are actually delivering, which is not a service that is 100% green and 100% cheap for everyone. And that's where there is an opportunity for energy communities to actually fill this gap, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, energy communities is something which is in infancy still. It's something which is, we see the potential for these energy communities to develop. There is legal work done by the government to actually describe the possibilities, how these energy communities can develop, can function. But there are still only a few examples we could look at for the energy communities. There are several municipalities we've been talking to which say that they're really looking forward ways how to get support for the people, for local communities to use this possibility. One example would be In many, many bigger towns in Latvia, people live in bigger multi-apartment buildings. Built maybe in the 70s during the Soviet era. They had big potential, for example, for solar production on their rooftops. But what we are missing, we are missing good technical tools. For sharing both the energy and also then the costs and income from this production. And an additional barrier which we see is very low trust of public. There is generally very little trust in institutions, in government, in politicians. People don't trust also that today decisions by the government, if the government says, okay, we want to support energy communities, that it will be lasting, that after five or three years we'll be on the same track because people maybe see too much variations in where we are moving if we look back 10 to maybe 15 years. And that's a limiting factor for people to get engaged and to participate in these kind of movements. One more thing with the multi-apartment buildings is that, which is a good thing and a bad thing at the same time, is that in these buildings, we don't have a high... public segregation. So there could be affluent people, rich people living there, there could be pensioners with a few hundred euro pensions living in the same building. And it's very hard for these people to agree on something together. It's not just for energy communities, it's also for housing insulation projects that these people are so different. They have different means and different knowledge levels. And also maybe the trust between them is not very high because they see each other from different social groups and don't want to engage. So yeah, I listed several problems and challenges. But I still think that energy communities is a good way forward, also for decreasing the energy poverty. for many of the communities. And we have to work with these kind of tools to make it easier, to make it more practical, and also to develop... A few good examples. People really trust in examples, in good examples. If they see that the neighboring house or neighboring community has done something and it's working and they can go and talk to each other in the park and then see that it's really working and people are happy about the result, then it's a much more bigger chance for the ideas to spread.
Speaker #0
That's really interesting because you mentioned trust really several times, like low trust in administration, in government, low trust in utilities, low trust in your own neighbor because they may have a totally different social background. I mean, the fact that there are a lot of social... differences within the same building can be quite inspiring also. But it's somehow a forced situation. And there are some examples that I have myself worked on about really improving the quality of the building because it's one of the key ways to address energy poverty. And some people who are not able to pay were actually leaving the buildings because they just couldn't afford it. And they were... they were against going against the tide and they were not benefit this way. They were not their choice or their inability to make a choice or make an investment was actually impairing their ability to live a more sustainable, resilient lifestyle as well. And somehow the fact that you see hope also in... examples coming from other communities. It's also what Adina said in the previous episode. It's also that sometimes you just need to start the conversation in a certain way. And maybe you start the conversation by noticing something that is happening in another community, right? And in her case, she mentioned a lot of environmental friendly projects that had nothing to do with energy. But at the end of the day, they were all related to energy, right? It's like the important is to what matters is to have really a starting point. So what kind of strategies? Because within the Energy Prospects project, you have talked to many stakeholders. You have assessed a lot of situations. So what kind of strategy or... models would you like to bring home to Latvia? And would you think that would make a huge difference in fostering environmental sustainability and cooperation between the different people with different backgrounds, with the different stakeholders we have at stake? Because it's not only about households, right? It's about creating the right ecosystem.
Speaker #1
Yeah, through the energy prospect, we have collected more than 500 cases of energy citizenship across Europe. And there are plenty of good examples which we would be happy to bring home. Many of the energy citizenship examples also focuses on not only on energy but also on social aspects, getting maybe more disadvantaged social groups involved in energy production. And some of the... Some of the initiatives around transportation, I think, would be very important also for Latvia, because in our survey of the energy citizenship cases, we couldn't really identify much of the energy citizenship in a field of transport. But transport is one of the big energy consumers. And if in the heat and power sectors we can... easily find ways to replace by renewables or improve efficiency, then the transportation sector, the best thing would be to move to public transport. But that's more or less a possibility for urban people. But in rural areas, we have a very low population density and there is a very poor... public transportation service network provided so rural people without car are really disabled for for getting access to the to the public services like i don't know getting to the hospital or the shop for the car is uh is uh impossible and and that wouldn't also mean this People, they wouldn't have money to buy electric cars, which are much more expensive, even if the government is currently providing the subsidy scheme. But many of these existing government initiatives, like I mentioned, for solar panels, for heat pumps, for electric cars. They are meant for people with income, with rather high incomes, who can afford the upfront investment costs. They have knowledge on how to... how to apply for projects and so on. And then they can get the money back. Part of the money gets from the government. But this is not really designed for people with lower income. And there is a big, I think there is a big gap there for Latvia. Energy poverty is still a big problem. And we don't really provide good solutions, good instruments. And different energy citizenship initiatives, low-tech solutions, things like building your own solar collectors or things like that could be a good way, low-cost, low-tech ways of helping people to get... energy services they need in a kind of environmentally sustainable way. So I think there is a lot of work to do. There are many NGOs who are actually doing these things, but this usually is kind of case by case. It's not really a societal movement. It's just individual cases.
Speaker #0
So that's where this kind of community has to go beyond really a structured community of people such as a cooperative, but really go with the community of people who want to shape the future together. And I think somehow it's the conversation that happens actually. Everywhere, anywhere I bring my podcast, I receive feedbacks like that. Like we need to bring people on board and sometimes it works really well because we have a common ground. And some other times it's because we have a common enemy. Well, it's not that shiny, but that is the case. But really, it's about really finding things that... talk to to to really manage to to to reach people in the way that they they feel that they have to do something and so what do you think latvia would need really to accelerate its transition towards cleaner more sustainable consumption way and and cleaner energy what would it need really yeah i think that's a that's a big uh big question but um I believe that there is... There is a need for stronger public engagement in looking for these solutions and visions. Moving away from seeing public as a kind of passive consumer, but looking into this citizenship, that takes time. It's not maybe a short-term approach or short-term decisions. It's not that... the next year or everybody will be engaged but we have to we have to demonstrate these these good examples we have to provide simple understandable solutions both technological but in terms of kind of organizational solutions and and that could be helpful way way forward you As I mentioned, there are many NGOs who are working, and I think civil society is a good way forward, because, like I mentioned, there is low trust in government, and civil society is much more trusted. Engaging research in finding these good solutions, I think, is also... kind of crucial. There are different research programs, but sometimes they, yeah, maybe we focus too much on this fundamental research and not really try to look for these practical solutions for specific communities. There is also a lot of myths around energy production and consumption. There is a Many people who believe in all kinds of conspiracy theories around that, and especially for wind energy, for example, and for something else that shows this public awareness level on some of these issues.
Speaker #1
That's really super interesting and I didn't know that there were any kind of conspiracy, right? It's so hard for me to fathom that I can't pronounce the word. I didn't know that there were any conspiracy against wind energy because it seems like, I mean... From what I know about Baltic countries, you have also some neighbors who are quite pioneering in using more wind in their grids. And that seems to be quite straightforward somehow. And also because you are very north, so I would imagine that solar energy sometimes is not working as well as it does in more southern countries. So, you know, it seems really from an outsider perspective, wind looks way more. suitable somehow really uh really i don't know anything about latvia and you know i would imagine that it fits better to to the actual climate but but now you say it is like oh wow so if people don't are on themselves believing that well it creates i mean there is this enormous awareness gap that needs to be that needs to be addressed right yeah yeah i mean in summer we have the white night so the sun all almost 20 hours a day but
Speaker #0
But it's just maybe a few weeks. Like you said, winter months are very dark and there is very little solar production. But there is a huge wind energy potential. I mean, Baltic states are bought by the sea, so there is also offshore wind energy potential in the Baltic Sea. But there is a very big, not in my backyard, There is a resistance movement for wind park developments in Latvia and that's why the wind energy is very poorly developed. There are a few projects also going in offshore and also there. Local coastal communities are campaigning against the wind turbines, which would be maybe... 10-15 kilometers in the sea, but people say that would destroy their special view and all kind of things which I think are mostly grounded in that we don't know or there are some other interests from maybe competing energy producers to not to develop the wind energy. There is one more project now in Latvia where Latvian State Energy Company and Latvian State Forests are developing a joint project to build the wind farms in the forest because there is no people. So there is no one to complain. Of course, that's maybe not the best way from an environmental perspective because you have to cut the forests to put up the wind turbines there. But yeah, it seems to be the best forward-going project currently because there is little people to complain about this project because they are further away from anyone. So that's unfortunately the reality for some of the technological solutions. But we don't always have to rely on technology. We have to think more about the sufficiency of energy consumption and maybe also look into these latent forms of energy citizenship for those who are shifting from gas to solar or something else. But those who are looking for ways not to consume energy so much as they did for like energy diets of the future. And we are over consuming energy in many ways. And in the future, we have to think much more how to conserve energy, how to not over consume it and conserve it. And that's that's also not not very easy way forward because Many of these visions about the future energy and sustainable energy says that we have a lot of renewable, cheap, green, affordable. But I think we will be getting into other... problems with access of resources, for example, biomass, which we already discussed in Latvia or in other countries, but also solar energy or electric cars need a lot of mineral resources to provide. I don't think that we can get an electric car for every inhabitant on the planet. No, we will not be able to provide so much energy. so much resources and even if we have it know that there will be huge traffic jams all all over the place so we have to look for other ways how to how to actually uh get what uh what we want not to get these energy services uh which are which are needed and and what we expect from life from what is a good life in general now that it's a much bigger picture and bigger question maybe going out of the energy the bed but uh but uh Yeah, generally the debate about the good life and sustainable consumption corridors is also something which we are looking into. How much is enough so that it's enough for you to satisfy your kind of basic needs, but you are also not killing the planet by it.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and that's definitely the principles behind sufficiency rather than really efficiency, making sure that it works better. But actually, it also delivers better within the... the best limits of our planet and really to make sure that, let's say, the energy climate transition that we need don't deplete other resources, especially in other places or countries. So, I mean, it's been a super fascinating conversation, Yanis, but we are arriving at the very end. So, but I would like to leave really the floor to you because, I mean, you have such an interesting double hat as an activist with Green Liberty and as a researcher with the University of Latvia. So is there one thing that really makes you hopeful about Latvia or some? Yeah, really good example that you would like to share. Yeah, let's say if somebody wants to get inspired by Latvia, what would you like them to keep in mind?
Speaker #0
I think there are many good examples which we could look at. There are permaculture, for example, movement, which is, I think, getting popularity where people are looking into these simple solutions, something which you can do it by yourself for providing. Both housing, food and energy, which really follow the sufficiency principles we just discussed, that you're not really over-consuming resources. You're looking for local resources which are available in the community to build your well-being. So there are many, many of these, you can say, crazy people who are trying to... find other ways on how to live their lives. And I think that's inspiring. That may be not the mainstream now. I think it's very important that we have communities and organizations who are doing these social experiments and testing out these solutions. And I hope also inspire other people and could kind of encourage this ripple effect on getting other more people engaged. Scaling up many of these energy citizenship initiatives. I'm learning also from other countries how they've been doing and I'm looking forward to this process to take ground.
Speaker #1
That's really amazing. I mean, with Etina in the previous episode, we concluded that she was actually a rebel. She had rebel ideas, but you do also have rebel ideas. And you know, I didn't know that Energy Prospects was actually a project to... With Rebels, about Rebel ideas, that's truly inspiring. And really today I learned a lot. So thank you so much for this super insightful discussion. And I would like also to thank the Energy Prospect project managers and team. Thank you for making this episode possible. They have been our sponsor for these two episodes, 50 and 51. And now we're going to have also the following episode, the last part of the series. So we will further explore the impact of energy citizenship in the urban energy transition. So please stay tuned and join us next time to continue uncovering the significant strides. being made towards achieving the EU climate ambition, maybe with the rebel lens. Who knows? Thank you so much, Yanis.
Speaker #2
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Energetic. It's been a pleasure diving deep into the world of sustainability and the just energy transition with some of the most forward-thinking mouths out there. I'm Maureen Canales, your host from policy consultancy Next Energy Consumer, and it's been an incredible journey growing this podcast together with you, our knowledgeable and passionate listeners. Since 2021, we've shared countless stories, insights, and ideas over more than 40 episodes. And it's all thanks to your support and enthusiasm. If you're enjoying our journey so far and want to help us keep the conversation going, why not support us on Patreon? Every bit helps us bring more inspiring content your way. Check out the show notes for the link. And hey, if you're a part of an organization that shares our passion for a sustainable and inclusive energy future, we're excited to explore sponsorship opportunities with you. It's a fantastic way to connect with a dedicated audience and make an even bigger impact together. Shout out to the fantastic Igor Mikhailovich from Podcast Media Factory for his incredible sound design work, making every episode a joy to listen to. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to Energetic on your favorite podcast platform. And if you think a friend or a colleague could benefit from our episode, we'd love for you to spread the word. It helps us grow and keep the energy transition conversation alive. Sharing is caring. Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn to stay engaged and update on all things Energetic. Thanks once again for lending your ears. Until next time.
Speaker #3
I need your touch, I need you here, I need your touch, I need you here in my body. I need your touch, I need you here in my body.

About Energ’Ethic - Climate Justice and Energy Transition

At Energ'Ethic, we're not just talking about change: we're driving it.

We need to break boundaries and foster a diversity of viewpoints to build resilient energy and climate transition strategies that serve humanity.

Listen to:

- Hear inspiring personal stories and unique perspectives.

- Discover solutions in energy and climate justice.

- Connect with a passionate community driving sustainable change.

Support Energ'Ethic and amplify your impact. Partner with us to reach an engaged audience committed to a sustainable future.

Ready to Make a Difference?

Listen, subscribe, and join us in turning conversations into actions for a just and sustainable world.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Energ’Ethic - Climate Justice and Energy Transition

At Energ'Ethic, we're not just talking about change: we're driving it.

We need to break boundaries and foster a diversity of viewpoints to build resilient energy and climate transition strategies that serve humanity.

Listen to:

- Hear inspiring personal stories and unique perspectives.

- Discover solutions in energy and climate justice.

- Connect with a passionate community driving sustainable change.

Support Energ'Ethic and amplify your impact. Partner with us to reach an engaged audience committed to a sustainable future.

Ready to Make a Difference?

Listen, subscribe, and join us in turning conversations into actions for a just and sustainable world.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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Description

Welcome to a new episode of the Energ' Ethic podcast, where we delve into the stories of those who cultivate the energy transition and harvest its benefits for a more sustainable future.

Join us as we uncover the narrative of change-makers like Janis Brizga, who nurture the seeds of sustainable development and cultivate the ground for a greener, more equitable future.

Keep up to date with new episodes straight from your inbox: https://podcast.ausha.co/energ-ethic-climate-justice-and-energy-transition?s=1

Reach out to Marine Cornelis via Twitter @MarineCornelis or LinkedIn
Music: I Need You Here - Kamarius
Edition: Podcast Media Factory

Support Energ'Ethic on Patreon https://patreon.com/Energethic

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Hello! Passionate about sustainability, energy and climate? You're in the right place. Welcome to Energetic. I'm Maureen Cornelis, and together we will engage with people who dedicate their lives to climate justice and making a just energy transition happen. They may be activists, scientists, policy makers or other enthusiasts, just like you. Let their life stories and insights inspire you to build a better future for people and the planet. Today's episode is proudly sponsored by the Energy Prospects Project. This Horizon 2020 initiative is at the forefront of exploring how energy citizenship can drive the European transition. In this new episode, we'll dive into the vital role of civic engagement in shaping a sustainable democratic energy system across Europe. Stay tuned as we unravel how citizens are not just consumers, but pivotal actors in this transformative journey. Our guest today is Yanis Breizhka, a linchpin in the realms of sustainable development and consumption at Green Liberty and the University of Latvia. His journey weaves through the dual threads of environmental science and public administration, showcasing a commitment to bridging academic rigor with actionable governance. Yanis's role from leading WWF Latvia environmental policy to his economic pursuits highlight a career dedicated to innovative solutions for a sustainable future. Yanis has been influential within several projects and Bankwatch Network, and he really champions interdisciplinary approaches to environmental challenges. I'm sure you will be as inspired as I am by his work. which propels the global conversation on sustainability and makes Yanis a key figure in shaping a greener and more equitable world. Yanis, welcome to Energetic.
Speaker #1
Hello.
Speaker #0
So let's start from the beginning. So your engagement with environmental advocacy and research started at a time when Latvia was kind of just opening to such concepts. So what did motivate you to embark on this path and how did this kind of early experience shape your current endeavours?
Speaker #1
Yeah. End of 80s, when Soviet Union was kind of collapsing and going through the transitional period, environmental movement started to kind of develop and grow in many of the Eastern European countries, including Latvia. And that was maybe one of the ways how actually people could gather, talk and debate some kind of political issues, but through this environmental lens. Now, At that time, in Riga, for example, there were several big demonstrations on environmental concerns, gathering tens of thousands of people against some kind of development projects at that time. So it was not possible to mobilize people on political grounds, but the environment was okay. And that was also the time that many people started to kind of joining the movement because it was, yeah, many people were joining in. I was a teenager at the time, so I was also getting involved in this environmental debate. But if we look now and compare, I think... Yeah, environmental movement in the 80s and 90s was much more about values and more ethical debates. Now it's more, I don't know, utilitarian, looking at lifestyles. What can you do at household level to improve your environmental performance, decrease energy consumption? So it's much more practical now when it was compared to what it was in the 90s.
Speaker #0
That's really, really interesting because the other day, for whatever reason, I was listening to Manu Chao. You remember at the end of the 90s, early 2000s, he was one of the voices behind this kind of movement about uniting people wherever they are, whatever the language they speak. And his songs, at the time at least, they were very much about like respecting nature and etc but it was never very practical and what you say about like this kind of now we have a more utilitarian approach And for instance, if we continue with music, with bands like Coldplay, who tries to mobilize on climate through their concert, it's true that it's quite a shift, right? It's really interesting to see it from your perspective, because I thought it was only me. Like, what did happen? There was something. There was a different conversation. So you noticed it. And I think what's really interesting is that you noticed it as an activist somehow, and also in academia and also in administration, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, well, I mean, I started working for environmental organizations in the 90s, and there was a lot of discussions about sustainable development at the time, you know, after the Rio conference in 1992, which was just after the Latvian independence, and also on the political level. All kind of debates about how we should organize the governance processes for not only for environment, for everything. There was a lot of discussion about this balance between economic development, environmental protection and social justice equality. And these were in 90s, at least in that way, not very easy debate because... Of course, the dominant focus was for economic growth. It's still there. I think it's still there. For catching up with the rest of Western Europe in terms of material wealth, now we can see that most of the environmental impacts are because of this rush for material welfare of the society. We consume way too much energy and resources and build our wealth on converting environmental resources into goods and products and services for short-term consumption. And this is still a problematic issue. Yeah, the debate never disappeared. No, it's still there.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it has shifted in many, many different ways because the situation is totally different now from then. But when we prepared this podcast, you also told me that Latvia still relies a lot on forest biomass for its energy well-being. So it presents quite a unique challenge. And I mean... Biomass, of course, it's somehow renewables, but can you tell us more about the Latvian forest and why it does matter that it is actually preserved or conserved in a certain way?
Speaker #1
Yeah, this is one of the biggest, maybe, nature conservation debates in Latvia about the forest sustainability. And generally, Latvia's energy sector is, you could say, rather green. No, we don't have any local fossil fuels, fossil resources, no coal or oil. So then we are depending on external resources. We are using natural gas. There is no coal for heat and power production. Daugava River, which is the biggest river, has several hydroelectric dams, which were built during the Soviet time. But otherwise, there is very little fossil fuel. So in terms of energy production, the CO2 emissions are comparatively small. And we have a very big share of renewable energy. It's more than 40% of the... Electricity is produced from the renewables, including the biomass. The biomass makes a big part of that. And also, especially for heating in rural areas and smaller towns, the heating is provided through the biomass power plants or CHP plants. And the country is covered with forests. More than half of the country's territory is forest. And it's one of the big... export products for also energy wise we are also exporting wood pellets to other countries for energy production so latvia is i think top five biomass exporters for for energy and that's of course causes yeah big debates about the sustainability and how sustainably are we managing our forests Previously, before the war in Ukraine, Latvia was importing also forest biomass from Russia and Belarus for local production and then export of the products. So now it's closed and the forest industry is really lacking the resources to convert into product. So that's been a big pressure to increase the extraction of the Latvian forest. And just a few weeks ago, the environmental movement won the court case against the government, the constitutional court against that, so that the government wanted to decrease the diameter of trees to be allowed for cutting. So that was a big win. But yeah, I guess the fight is not really... ended with this. There will be other ways how to try to use this natural resource. And I think it's very similar like in other countries where you have, I don't know, Poland with big coal deposits or similar in Germany. It's not very easy to kind of stop using these resources and say, no, we keep them for environmental or natural conservation or sustainability purposes or for recreational purposes. Because the... Many people see it as money lying down on the ground. You can just get it and use it. The same for oil. Many countries which are rich in oil deposits, it will be very hard to convince them to leave these resources in the ground because of climate change or other reasons. I'm rather pessimistic, aren't we? How are we going to convince these countries or companies not to extract the resources they have?
Speaker #0
Yeah, that's very, very interesting. I've heard of situations, for instance, in Costa Rica, where there are some international groups that want to pay. the countries and the landowners to not cut the lands, not cut the trees and be sure that to preserve the land because it has a value the way it is because the trees are carbon sinks and they are part of a broader ecosystem and a broader conservation strategy. And I mean, that's a very nice transition to the... concept of energy communities that you've been working on, including with the Energy Prospect project. You also told me that energy cooperatives or maybe cooperatives in general, they are relatively uncommon in the Baltic states, in particular in Latvia. So from your experience, first, what are the main hurdles? And second, would they be a way for people to... better acknowledge that they have resources somehow that they need to preserve for them, for their kids and for their grandkids as well.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I think that's one of the problems for most of the post-Soviet countries when cooperatives had collective farms for agriculture, which was not a very efficient way of production. And most of the people were not very, maybe, happy by being engaged in that. So we have these negative connotations. The whole concept of cooperative business or cooperative management of resources. And also currently there is very few cooperatives or cooperative activities in Latvia and other Baltic states. And I believe this is one of the reasons because of this kind of historical inheritance. There are some cooperatives for farmers when they are sharing the tractors and some equipment. some other cooperatives maybe but it's not a common movement, not a movement with history like in many other countries where the cooperative movement started in the beginning already of the 20th century or even the end of 19th century. And it's become the part of the business as usual for many cases. then it's also easy to go maybe from agricultural cooperative to energy cooperative because it's even more complicated. Energy system as well has been something which has been very centralized most of the time. So both the energy production and energy distribution has been in the hands of the state. The big energy production companies or state grid, which people were just... final consumers. You pay the bill and you get the energy. There was no need for public engagement in debates or in some kind of practical activities around energy. You could complain when it's too expensive maybe or you have the blackouts or product is not provided. But otherwise, there was no need for engagement. Now, I think the situation has significantly changed Both technologically, we have technologies like for example solar panels which everyone can put on their rooftops. There's been a very big development during last few years in Latvia after the Russian war in Ukraine. All the governmental debate shifted to move away from the gas, which we mostly supplied from Russia, and oil, which was also mostly from Russia, to find other ways of producing energy. One way would be to substitute with gas from somewhere else, like LTG from the US or some other countries, but also increase the local production. There was a... The subsidy system introduced to install solar panels and heat pumps and some other technologies. So a lot of people during the last two years have used this opportunity. And now we have, I think, tripled the solar power production compared to a few years ago. It's been a very big shift in public engagement. There are a lot of consumers, people who produce energy at home. Energy market has been also liberalized. So you can also, if you are not producing energy, you can also choose from different providers, both the heat and gas and power consumption. So you have to follow different prices. You have to think much more about your energy habits, your practices. Energy costs have also significantly increased during these few years. So people have to be engaged in energy debates and practices. And that's a good ground for energy citizenship, because you are pushed into the energy citizen in a way by these economic structural changes which we see. during these last years. And my concern is that... Maybe not all the people are ready for that. There are a lot of people who are passive in energy prospects. We also run a representative public survey which showed that most of the people don't really want to be so much engaged in these discussions. They just want to have green, cheap, reliable energy and they don't want to think about these things. And my concern is that these people will be losing out because they will be paying more than necessary for these energy services. They will not choose the right energy products. They will not engage in energy production. So that could increase the energy poverty, which is already comparatively high in a country where some people cannot afford the high energy costs.
Speaker #0
That's really interesting because what you're saying is that essentially more and more people are interested in green energy and understanding that it matters. And they also want cheap energy, which is, of course, also one of the promises of renewables, that it could provide really cheap energy. However, they may not really have the tools or the means to understand how to make that really happen to them. And somehow there is like a discrepancy between the... the intention and what the utilities, traditional utilities and governments are actually delivering, which is not a service that is 100% green and 100% cheap for everyone. And that's where there is an opportunity for energy communities to actually fill this gap, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, energy communities is something which is in infancy still. It's something which is, we see the potential for these energy communities to develop. There is legal work done by the government to actually describe the possibilities, how these energy communities can develop, can function. But there are still only a few examples we could look at for the energy communities. There are several municipalities we've been talking to which say that they're really looking forward ways how to get support for the people, for local communities to use this possibility. One example would be In many, many bigger towns in Latvia, people live in bigger multi-apartment buildings. Built maybe in the 70s during the Soviet era. They had big potential, for example, for solar production on their rooftops. But what we are missing, we are missing good technical tools. For sharing both the energy and also then the costs and income from this production. And an additional barrier which we see is very low trust of public. There is generally very little trust in institutions, in government, in politicians. People don't trust also that today decisions by the government, if the government says, okay, we want to support energy communities, that it will be lasting, that after five or three years we'll be on the same track because people maybe see too much variations in where we are moving if we look back 10 to maybe 15 years. And that's a limiting factor for people to get engaged and to participate in these kind of movements. One more thing with the multi-apartment buildings is that, which is a good thing and a bad thing at the same time, is that in these buildings, we don't have a high... public segregation. So there could be affluent people, rich people living there, there could be pensioners with a few hundred euro pensions living in the same building. And it's very hard for these people to agree on something together. It's not just for energy communities, it's also for housing insulation projects that these people are so different. They have different means and different knowledge levels. And also maybe the trust between them is not very high because they see each other from different social groups and don't want to engage. So yeah, I listed several problems and challenges. But I still think that energy communities is a good way forward, also for decreasing the energy poverty. for many of the communities. And we have to work with these kind of tools to make it easier, to make it more practical, and also to develop... A few good examples. People really trust in examples, in good examples. If they see that the neighboring house or neighboring community has done something and it's working and they can go and talk to each other in the park and then see that it's really working and people are happy about the result, then it's a much more bigger chance for the ideas to spread.
Speaker #0
That's really interesting because you mentioned trust really several times, like low trust in administration, in government, low trust in utilities, low trust in your own neighbor because they may have a totally different social background. I mean, the fact that there are a lot of social... differences within the same building can be quite inspiring also. But it's somehow a forced situation. And there are some examples that I have myself worked on about really improving the quality of the building because it's one of the key ways to address energy poverty. And some people who are not able to pay were actually leaving the buildings because they just couldn't afford it. And they were... they were against going against the tide and they were not benefit this way. They were not their choice or their inability to make a choice or make an investment was actually impairing their ability to live a more sustainable, resilient lifestyle as well. And somehow the fact that you see hope also in... examples coming from other communities. It's also what Adina said in the previous episode. It's also that sometimes you just need to start the conversation in a certain way. And maybe you start the conversation by noticing something that is happening in another community, right? And in her case, she mentioned a lot of environmental friendly projects that had nothing to do with energy. But at the end of the day, they were all related to energy, right? It's like the important is to what matters is to have really a starting point. So what kind of strategies? Because within the Energy Prospects project, you have talked to many stakeholders. You have assessed a lot of situations. So what kind of strategy or... models would you like to bring home to Latvia? And would you think that would make a huge difference in fostering environmental sustainability and cooperation between the different people with different backgrounds, with the different stakeholders we have at stake? Because it's not only about households, right? It's about creating the right ecosystem.
Speaker #1
Yeah, through the energy prospect, we have collected more than 500 cases of energy citizenship across Europe. And there are plenty of good examples which we would be happy to bring home. Many of the energy citizenship examples also focuses on not only on energy but also on social aspects, getting maybe more disadvantaged social groups involved in energy production. And some of the... Some of the initiatives around transportation, I think, would be very important also for Latvia, because in our survey of the energy citizenship cases, we couldn't really identify much of the energy citizenship in a field of transport. But transport is one of the big energy consumers. And if in the heat and power sectors we can... easily find ways to replace by renewables or improve efficiency, then the transportation sector, the best thing would be to move to public transport. But that's more or less a possibility for urban people. But in rural areas, we have a very low population density and there is a very poor... public transportation service network provided so rural people without car are really disabled for for getting access to the to the public services like i don't know getting to the hospital or the shop for the car is uh is uh impossible and and that wouldn't also mean this People, they wouldn't have money to buy electric cars, which are much more expensive, even if the government is currently providing the subsidy scheme. But many of these existing government initiatives, like I mentioned, for solar panels, for heat pumps, for electric cars. They are meant for people with income, with rather high incomes, who can afford the upfront investment costs. They have knowledge on how to... how to apply for projects and so on. And then they can get the money back. Part of the money gets from the government. But this is not really designed for people with lower income. And there is a big, I think there is a big gap there for Latvia. Energy poverty is still a big problem. And we don't really provide good solutions, good instruments. And different energy citizenship initiatives, low-tech solutions, things like building your own solar collectors or things like that could be a good way, low-cost, low-tech ways of helping people to get... energy services they need in a kind of environmentally sustainable way. So I think there is a lot of work to do. There are many NGOs who are actually doing these things, but this usually is kind of case by case. It's not really a societal movement. It's just individual cases.
Speaker #0
So that's where this kind of community has to go beyond really a structured community of people such as a cooperative, but really go with the community of people who want to shape the future together. And I think somehow it's the conversation that happens actually. Everywhere, anywhere I bring my podcast, I receive feedbacks like that. Like we need to bring people on board and sometimes it works really well because we have a common ground. And some other times it's because we have a common enemy. Well, it's not that shiny, but that is the case. But really, it's about really finding things that... talk to to to really manage to to to reach people in the way that they they feel that they have to do something and so what do you think latvia would need really to accelerate its transition towards cleaner more sustainable consumption way and and cleaner energy what would it need really yeah i think that's a that's a big uh big question but um I believe that there is... There is a need for stronger public engagement in looking for these solutions and visions. Moving away from seeing public as a kind of passive consumer, but looking into this citizenship, that takes time. It's not maybe a short-term approach or short-term decisions. It's not that... the next year or everybody will be engaged but we have to we have to demonstrate these these good examples we have to provide simple understandable solutions both technological but in terms of kind of organizational solutions and and that could be helpful way way forward you As I mentioned, there are many NGOs who are working, and I think civil society is a good way forward, because, like I mentioned, there is low trust in government, and civil society is much more trusted. Engaging research in finding these good solutions, I think, is also... kind of crucial. There are different research programs, but sometimes they, yeah, maybe we focus too much on this fundamental research and not really try to look for these practical solutions for specific communities. There is also a lot of myths around energy production and consumption. There is a Many people who believe in all kinds of conspiracy theories around that, and especially for wind energy, for example, and for something else that shows this public awareness level on some of these issues.
Speaker #1
That's really super interesting and I didn't know that there were any kind of conspiracy, right? It's so hard for me to fathom that I can't pronounce the word. I didn't know that there were any conspiracy against wind energy because it seems like, I mean... From what I know about Baltic countries, you have also some neighbors who are quite pioneering in using more wind in their grids. And that seems to be quite straightforward somehow. And also because you are very north, so I would imagine that solar energy sometimes is not working as well as it does in more southern countries. So, you know, it seems really from an outsider perspective, wind looks way more. suitable somehow really uh really i don't know anything about latvia and you know i would imagine that it fits better to to the actual climate but but now you say it is like oh wow so if people don't are on themselves believing that well it creates i mean there is this enormous awareness gap that needs to be that needs to be addressed right yeah yeah i mean in summer we have the white night so the sun all almost 20 hours a day but
Speaker #0
But it's just maybe a few weeks. Like you said, winter months are very dark and there is very little solar production. But there is a huge wind energy potential. I mean, Baltic states are bought by the sea, so there is also offshore wind energy potential in the Baltic Sea. But there is a very big, not in my backyard, There is a resistance movement for wind park developments in Latvia and that's why the wind energy is very poorly developed. There are a few projects also going in offshore and also there. Local coastal communities are campaigning against the wind turbines, which would be maybe... 10-15 kilometers in the sea, but people say that would destroy their special view and all kind of things which I think are mostly grounded in that we don't know or there are some other interests from maybe competing energy producers to not to develop the wind energy. There is one more project now in Latvia where Latvian State Energy Company and Latvian State Forests are developing a joint project to build the wind farms in the forest because there is no people. So there is no one to complain. Of course, that's maybe not the best way from an environmental perspective because you have to cut the forests to put up the wind turbines there. But yeah, it seems to be the best forward-going project currently because there is little people to complain about this project because they are further away from anyone. So that's unfortunately the reality for some of the technological solutions. But we don't always have to rely on technology. We have to think more about the sufficiency of energy consumption and maybe also look into these latent forms of energy citizenship for those who are shifting from gas to solar or something else. But those who are looking for ways not to consume energy so much as they did for like energy diets of the future. And we are over consuming energy in many ways. And in the future, we have to think much more how to conserve energy, how to not over consume it and conserve it. And that's that's also not not very easy way forward because Many of these visions about the future energy and sustainable energy says that we have a lot of renewable, cheap, green, affordable. But I think we will be getting into other... problems with access of resources, for example, biomass, which we already discussed in Latvia or in other countries, but also solar energy or electric cars need a lot of mineral resources to provide. I don't think that we can get an electric car for every inhabitant on the planet. No, we will not be able to provide so much energy. so much resources and even if we have it know that there will be huge traffic jams all all over the place so we have to look for other ways how to how to actually uh get what uh what we want not to get these energy services uh which are which are needed and and what we expect from life from what is a good life in general now that it's a much bigger picture and bigger question maybe going out of the energy the bed but uh but uh Yeah, generally the debate about the good life and sustainable consumption corridors is also something which we are looking into. How much is enough so that it's enough for you to satisfy your kind of basic needs, but you are also not killing the planet by it.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and that's definitely the principles behind sufficiency rather than really efficiency, making sure that it works better. But actually, it also delivers better within the... the best limits of our planet and really to make sure that, let's say, the energy climate transition that we need don't deplete other resources, especially in other places or countries. So, I mean, it's been a super fascinating conversation, Yanis, but we are arriving at the very end. So, but I would like to leave really the floor to you because, I mean, you have such an interesting double hat as an activist with Green Liberty and as a researcher with the University of Latvia. So is there one thing that really makes you hopeful about Latvia or some? Yeah, really good example that you would like to share. Yeah, let's say if somebody wants to get inspired by Latvia, what would you like them to keep in mind?
Speaker #0
I think there are many good examples which we could look at. There are permaculture, for example, movement, which is, I think, getting popularity where people are looking into these simple solutions, something which you can do it by yourself for providing. Both housing, food and energy, which really follow the sufficiency principles we just discussed, that you're not really over-consuming resources. You're looking for local resources which are available in the community to build your well-being. So there are many, many of these, you can say, crazy people who are trying to... find other ways on how to live their lives. And I think that's inspiring. That may be not the mainstream now. I think it's very important that we have communities and organizations who are doing these social experiments and testing out these solutions. And I hope also inspire other people and could kind of encourage this ripple effect on getting other more people engaged. Scaling up many of these energy citizenship initiatives. I'm learning also from other countries how they've been doing and I'm looking forward to this process to take ground.
Speaker #1
That's really amazing. I mean, with Etina in the previous episode, we concluded that she was actually a rebel. She had rebel ideas, but you do also have rebel ideas. And you know, I didn't know that Energy Prospects was actually a project to... With Rebels, about Rebel ideas, that's truly inspiring. And really today I learned a lot. So thank you so much for this super insightful discussion. And I would like also to thank the Energy Prospect project managers and team. Thank you for making this episode possible. They have been our sponsor for these two episodes, 50 and 51. And now we're going to have also the following episode, the last part of the series. So we will further explore the impact of energy citizenship in the urban energy transition. So please stay tuned and join us next time to continue uncovering the significant strides. being made towards achieving the EU climate ambition, maybe with the rebel lens. Who knows? Thank you so much, Yanis.
Speaker #2
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Energetic. It's been a pleasure diving deep into the world of sustainability and the just energy transition with some of the most forward-thinking mouths out there. I'm Maureen Canales, your host from policy consultancy Next Energy Consumer, and it's been an incredible journey growing this podcast together with you, our knowledgeable and passionate listeners. Since 2021, we've shared countless stories, insights, and ideas over more than 40 episodes. And it's all thanks to your support and enthusiasm. If you're enjoying our journey so far and want to help us keep the conversation going, why not support us on Patreon? Every bit helps us bring more inspiring content your way. Check out the show notes for the link. And hey, if you're a part of an organization that shares our passion for a sustainable and inclusive energy future, we're excited to explore sponsorship opportunities with you. It's a fantastic way to connect with a dedicated audience and make an even bigger impact together. Shout out to the fantastic Igor Mikhailovich from Podcast Media Factory for his incredible sound design work, making every episode a joy to listen to. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to Energetic on your favorite podcast platform. And if you think a friend or a colleague could benefit from our episode, we'd love for you to spread the word. It helps us grow and keep the energy transition conversation alive. Sharing is caring. Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn to stay engaged and update on all things Energetic. Thanks once again for lending your ears. Until next time.
Speaker #3
I need your touch, I need you here, I need your touch, I need you here in my body. I need your touch, I need you here in my body.

About Energ’Ethic - Climate Justice and Energy Transition

At Energ'Ethic, we're not just talking about change: we're driving it.

We need to break boundaries and foster a diversity of viewpoints to build resilient energy and climate transition strategies that serve humanity.

Listen to:

- Hear inspiring personal stories and unique perspectives.

- Discover solutions in energy and climate justice.

- Connect with a passionate community driving sustainable change.

Support Energ'Ethic and amplify your impact. Partner with us to reach an engaged audience committed to a sustainable future.

Ready to Make a Difference?

Listen, subscribe, and join us in turning conversations into actions for a just and sustainable world.

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About Energ’Ethic - Climate Justice and Energy Transition

At Energ'Ethic, we're not just talking about change: we're driving it.

We need to break boundaries and foster a diversity of viewpoints to build resilient energy and climate transition strategies that serve humanity.

Listen to:

- Hear inspiring personal stories and unique perspectives.

- Discover solutions in energy and climate justice.

- Connect with a passionate community driving sustainable change.

Support Energ'Ethic and amplify your impact. Partner with us to reach an engaged audience committed to a sustainable future.

Ready to Make a Difference?

Listen, subscribe, and join us in turning conversations into actions for a just and sustainable world.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

Welcome to a new episode of the Energ' Ethic podcast, where we delve into the stories of those who cultivate the energy transition and harvest its benefits for a more sustainable future.

Join us as we uncover the narrative of change-makers like Janis Brizga, who nurture the seeds of sustainable development and cultivate the ground for a greener, more equitable future.

Keep up to date with new episodes straight from your inbox: https://podcast.ausha.co/energ-ethic-climate-justice-and-energy-transition?s=1

Reach out to Marine Cornelis via Twitter @MarineCornelis or LinkedIn
Music: I Need You Here - Kamarius
Edition: Podcast Media Factory

Support Energ'Ethic on Patreon https://patreon.com/Energethic

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Transcription

Speaker #0
Hello! Passionate about sustainability, energy and climate? You're in the right place. Welcome to Energetic. I'm Maureen Cornelis, and together we will engage with people who dedicate their lives to climate justice and making a just energy transition happen. They may be activists, scientists, policy makers or other enthusiasts, just like you. Let their life stories and insights inspire you to build a better future for people and the planet. Today's episode is proudly sponsored by the Energy Prospects Project. This Horizon 2020 initiative is at the forefront of exploring how energy citizenship can drive the European transition. In this new episode, we'll dive into the vital role of civic engagement in shaping a sustainable democratic energy system across Europe. Stay tuned as we unravel how citizens are not just consumers, but pivotal actors in this transformative journey. Our guest today is Yanis Breizhka, a linchpin in the realms of sustainable development and consumption at Green Liberty and the University of Latvia. His journey weaves through the dual threads of environmental science and public administration, showcasing a commitment to bridging academic rigor with actionable governance. Yanis's role from leading WWF Latvia environmental policy to his economic pursuits highlight a career dedicated to innovative solutions for a sustainable future. Yanis has been influential within several projects and Bankwatch Network, and he really champions interdisciplinary approaches to environmental challenges. I'm sure you will be as inspired as I am by his work. which propels the global conversation on sustainability and makes Yanis a key figure in shaping a greener and more equitable world. Yanis, welcome to Energetic.
Speaker #1
Hello.
Speaker #0
So let's start from the beginning. So your engagement with environmental advocacy and research started at a time when Latvia was kind of just opening to such concepts. So what did motivate you to embark on this path and how did this kind of early experience shape your current endeavours?
Speaker #1
Yeah. End of 80s, when Soviet Union was kind of collapsing and going through the transitional period, environmental movement started to kind of develop and grow in many of the Eastern European countries, including Latvia. And that was maybe one of the ways how actually people could gather, talk and debate some kind of political issues, but through this environmental lens. Now, At that time, in Riga, for example, there were several big demonstrations on environmental concerns, gathering tens of thousands of people against some kind of development projects at that time. So it was not possible to mobilize people on political grounds, but the environment was okay. And that was also the time that many people started to kind of joining the movement because it was, yeah, many people were joining in. I was a teenager at the time, so I was also getting involved in this environmental debate. But if we look now and compare, I think... Yeah, environmental movement in the 80s and 90s was much more about values and more ethical debates. Now it's more, I don't know, utilitarian, looking at lifestyles. What can you do at household level to improve your environmental performance, decrease energy consumption? So it's much more practical now when it was compared to what it was in the 90s.
Speaker #0
That's really, really interesting because the other day, for whatever reason, I was listening to Manu Chao. You remember at the end of the 90s, early 2000s, he was one of the voices behind this kind of movement about uniting people wherever they are, whatever the language they speak. And his songs, at the time at least, they were very much about like respecting nature and etc but it was never very practical and what you say about like this kind of now we have a more utilitarian approach And for instance, if we continue with music, with bands like Coldplay, who tries to mobilize on climate through their concert, it's true that it's quite a shift, right? It's really interesting to see it from your perspective, because I thought it was only me. Like, what did happen? There was something. There was a different conversation. So you noticed it. And I think what's really interesting is that you noticed it as an activist somehow, and also in academia and also in administration, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, well, I mean, I started working for environmental organizations in the 90s, and there was a lot of discussions about sustainable development at the time, you know, after the Rio conference in 1992, which was just after the Latvian independence, and also on the political level. All kind of debates about how we should organize the governance processes for not only for environment, for everything. There was a lot of discussion about this balance between economic development, environmental protection and social justice equality. And these were in 90s, at least in that way, not very easy debate because... Of course, the dominant focus was for economic growth. It's still there. I think it's still there. For catching up with the rest of Western Europe in terms of material wealth, now we can see that most of the environmental impacts are because of this rush for material welfare of the society. We consume way too much energy and resources and build our wealth on converting environmental resources into goods and products and services for short-term consumption. And this is still a problematic issue. Yeah, the debate never disappeared. No, it's still there.
Speaker #0
Yeah, it has shifted in many, many different ways because the situation is totally different now from then. But when we prepared this podcast, you also told me that Latvia still relies a lot on forest biomass for its energy well-being. So it presents quite a unique challenge. And I mean... Biomass, of course, it's somehow renewables, but can you tell us more about the Latvian forest and why it does matter that it is actually preserved or conserved in a certain way?
Speaker #1
Yeah, this is one of the biggest, maybe, nature conservation debates in Latvia about the forest sustainability. And generally, Latvia's energy sector is, you could say, rather green. No, we don't have any local fossil fuels, fossil resources, no coal or oil. So then we are depending on external resources. We are using natural gas. There is no coal for heat and power production. Daugava River, which is the biggest river, has several hydroelectric dams, which were built during the Soviet time. But otherwise, there is very little fossil fuel. So in terms of energy production, the CO2 emissions are comparatively small. And we have a very big share of renewable energy. It's more than 40% of the... Electricity is produced from the renewables, including the biomass. The biomass makes a big part of that. And also, especially for heating in rural areas and smaller towns, the heating is provided through the biomass power plants or CHP plants. And the country is covered with forests. More than half of the country's territory is forest. And it's one of the big... export products for also energy wise we are also exporting wood pellets to other countries for energy production so latvia is i think top five biomass exporters for for energy and that's of course causes yeah big debates about the sustainability and how sustainably are we managing our forests Previously, before the war in Ukraine, Latvia was importing also forest biomass from Russia and Belarus for local production and then export of the products. So now it's closed and the forest industry is really lacking the resources to convert into product. So that's been a big pressure to increase the extraction of the Latvian forest. And just a few weeks ago, the environmental movement won the court case against the government, the constitutional court against that, so that the government wanted to decrease the diameter of trees to be allowed for cutting. So that was a big win. But yeah, I guess the fight is not really... ended with this. There will be other ways how to try to use this natural resource. And I think it's very similar like in other countries where you have, I don't know, Poland with big coal deposits or similar in Germany. It's not very easy to kind of stop using these resources and say, no, we keep them for environmental or natural conservation or sustainability purposes or for recreational purposes. Because the... Many people see it as money lying down on the ground. You can just get it and use it. The same for oil. Many countries which are rich in oil deposits, it will be very hard to convince them to leave these resources in the ground because of climate change or other reasons. I'm rather pessimistic, aren't we? How are we going to convince these countries or companies not to extract the resources they have?
Speaker #0
Yeah, that's very, very interesting. I've heard of situations, for instance, in Costa Rica, where there are some international groups that want to pay. the countries and the landowners to not cut the lands, not cut the trees and be sure that to preserve the land because it has a value the way it is because the trees are carbon sinks and they are part of a broader ecosystem and a broader conservation strategy. And I mean, that's a very nice transition to the... concept of energy communities that you've been working on, including with the Energy Prospect project. You also told me that energy cooperatives or maybe cooperatives in general, they are relatively uncommon in the Baltic states, in particular in Latvia. So from your experience, first, what are the main hurdles? And second, would they be a way for people to... better acknowledge that they have resources somehow that they need to preserve for them, for their kids and for their grandkids as well.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I think that's one of the problems for most of the post-Soviet countries when cooperatives had collective farms for agriculture, which was not a very efficient way of production. And most of the people were not very, maybe, happy by being engaged in that. So we have these negative connotations. The whole concept of cooperative business or cooperative management of resources. And also currently there is very few cooperatives or cooperative activities in Latvia and other Baltic states. And I believe this is one of the reasons because of this kind of historical inheritance. There are some cooperatives for farmers when they are sharing the tractors and some equipment. some other cooperatives maybe but it's not a common movement, not a movement with history like in many other countries where the cooperative movement started in the beginning already of the 20th century or even the end of 19th century. And it's become the part of the business as usual for many cases. then it's also easy to go maybe from agricultural cooperative to energy cooperative because it's even more complicated. Energy system as well has been something which has been very centralized most of the time. So both the energy production and energy distribution has been in the hands of the state. The big energy production companies or state grid, which people were just... final consumers. You pay the bill and you get the energy. There was no need for public engagement in debates or in some kind of practical activities around energy. You could complain when it's too expensive maybe or you have the blackouts or product is not provided. But otherwise, there was no need for engagement. Now, I think the situation has significantly changed Both technologically, we have technologies like for example solar panels which everyone can put on their rooftops. There's been a very big development during last few years in Latvia after the Russian war in Ukraine. All the governmental debate shifted to move away from the gas, which we mostly supplied from Russia, and oil, which was also mostly from Russia, to find other ways of producing energy. One way would be to substitute with gas from somewhere else, like LTG from the US or some other countries, but also increase the local production. There was a... The subsidy system introduced to install solar panels and heat pumps and some other technologies. So a lot of people during the last two years have used this opportunity. And now we have, I think, tripled the solar power production compared to a few years ago. It's been a very big shift in public engagement. There are a lot of consumers, people who produce energy at home. Energy market has been also liberalized. So you can also, if you are not producing energy, you can also choose from different providers, both the heat and gas and power consumption. So you have to follow different prices. You have to think much more about your energy habits, your practices. Energy costs have also significantly increased during these few years. So people have to be engaged in energy debates and practices. And that's a good ground for energy citizenship, because you are pushed into the energy citizen in a way by these economic structural changes which we see. during these last years. And my concern is that... Maybe not all the people are ready for that. There are a lot of people who are passive in energy prospects. We also run a representative public survey which showed that most of the people don't really want to be so much engaged in these discussions. They just want to have green, cheap, reliable energy and they don't want to think about these things. And my concern is that these people will be losing out because they will be paying more than necessary for these energy services. They will not choose the right energy products. They will not engage in energy production. So that could increase the energy poverty, which is already comparatively high in a country where some people cannot afford the high energy costs.
Speaker #0
That's really interesting because what you're saying is that essentially more and more people are interested in green energy and understanding that it matters. And they also want cheap energy, which is, of course, also one of the promises of renewables, that it could provide really cheap energy. However, they may not really have the tools or the means to understand how to make that really happen to them. And somehow there is like a discrepancy between the... the intention and what the utilities, traditional utilities and governments are actually delivering, which is not a service that is 100% green and 100% cheap for everyone. And that's where there is an opportunity for energy communities to actually fill this gap, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah, energy communities is something which is in infancy still. It's something which is, we see the potential for these energy communities to develop. There is legal work done by the government to actually describe the possibilities, how these energy communities can develop, can function. But there are still only a few examples we could look at for the energy communities. There are several municipalities we've been talking to which say that they're really looking forward ways how to get support for the people, for local communities to use this possibility. One example would be In many, many bigger towns in Latvia, people live in bigger multi-apartment buildings. Built maybe in the 70s during the Soviet era. They had big potential, for example, for solar production on their rooftops. But what we are missing, we are missing good technical tools. For sharing both the energy and also then the costs and income from this production. And an additional barrier which we see is very low trust of public. There is generally very little trust in institutions, in government, in politicians. People don't trust also that today decisions by the government, if the government says, okay, we want to support energy communities, that it will be lasting, that after five or three years we'll be on the same track because people maybe see too much variations in where we are moving if we look back 10 to maybe 15 years. And that's a limiting factor for people to get engaged and to participate in these kind of movements. One more thing with the multi-apartment buildings is that, which is a good thing and a bad thing at the same time, is that in these buildings, we don't have a high... public segregation. So there could be affluent people, rich people living there, there could be pensioners with a few hundred euro pensions living in the same building. And it's very hard for these people to agree on something together. It's not just for energy communities, it's also for housing insulation projects that these people are so different. They have different means and different knowledge levels. And also maybe the trust between them is not very high because they see each other from different social groups and don't want to engage. So yeah, I listed several problems and challenges. But I still think that energy communities is a good way forward, also for decreasing the energy poverty. for many of the communities. And we have to work with these kind of tools to make it easier, to make it more practical, and also to develop... A few good examples. People really trust in examples, in good examples. If they see that the neighboring house or neighboring community has done something and it's working and they can go and talk to each other in the park and then see that it's really working and people are happy about the result, then it's a much more bigger chance for the ideas to spread.
Speaker #0
That's really interesting because you mentioned trust really several times, like low trust in administration, in government, low trust in utilities, low trust in your own neighbor because they may have a totally different social background. I mean, the fact that there are a lot of social... differences within the same building can be quite inspiring also. But it's somehow a forced situation. And there are some examples that I have myself worked on about really improving the quality of the building because it's one of the key ways to address energy poverty. And some people who are not able to pay were actually leaving the buildings because they just couldn't afford it. And they were... they were against going against the tide and they were not benefit this way. They were not their choice or their inability to make a choice or make an investment was actually impairing their ability to live a more sustainable, resilient lifestyle as well. And somehow the fact that you see hope also in... examples coming from other communities. It's also what Adina said in the previous episode. It's also that sometimes you just need to start the conversation in a certain way. And maybe you start the conversation by noticing something that is happening in another community, right? And in her case, she mentioned a lot of environmental friendly projects that had nothing to do with energy. But at the end of the day, they were all related to energy, right? It's like the important is to what matters is to have really a starting point. So what kind of strategies? Because within the Energy Prospects project, you have talked to many stakeholders. You have assessed a lot of situations. So what kind of strategy or... models would you like to bring home to Latvia? And would you think that would make a huge difference in fostering environmental sustainability and cooperation between the different people with different backgrounds, with the different stakeholders we have at stake? Because it's not only about households, right? It's about creating the right ecosystem.
Speaker #1
Yeah, through the energy prospect, we have collected more than 500 cases of energy citizenship across Europe. And there are plenty of good examples which we would be happy to bring home. Many of the energy citizenship examples also focuses on not only on energy but also on social aspects, getting maybe more disadvantaged social groups involved in energy production. And some of the... Some of the initiatives around transportation, I think, would be very important also for Latvia, because in our survey of the energy citizenship cases, we couldn't really identify much of the energy citizenship in a field of transport. But transport is one of the big energy consumers. And if in the heat and power sectors we can... easily find ways to replace by renewables or improve efficiency, then the transportation sector, the best thing would be to move to public transport. But that's more or less a possibility for urban people. But in rural areas, we have a very low population density and there is a very poor... public transportation service network provided so rural people without car are really disabled for for getting access to the to the public services like i don't know getting to the hospital or the shop for the car is uh is uh impossible and and that wouldn't also mean this People, they wouldn't have money to buy electric cars, which are much more expensive, even if the government is currently providing the subsidy scheme. But many of these existing government initiatives, like I mentioned, for solar panels, for heat pumps, for electric cars. They are meant for people with income, with rather high incomes, who can afford the upfront investment costs. They have knowledge on how to... how to apply for projects and so on. And then they can get the money back. Part of the money gets from the government. But this is not really designed for people with lower income. And there is a big, I think there is a big gap there for Latvia. Energy poverty is still a big problem. And we don't really provide good solutions, good instruments. And different energy citizenship initiatives, low-tech solutions, things like building your own solar collectors or things like that could be a good way, low-cost, low-tech ways of helping people to get... energy services they need in a kind of environmentally sustainable way. So I think there is a lot of work to do. There are many NGOs who are actually doing these things, but this usually is kind of case by case. It's not really a societal movement. It's just individual cases.
Speaker #0
So that's where this kind of community has to go beyond really a structured community of people such as a cooperative, but really go with the community of people who want to shape the future together. And I think somehow it's the conversation that happens actually. Everywhere, anywhere I bring my podcast, I receive feedbacks like that. Like we need to bring people on board and sometimes it works really well because we have a common ground. And some other times it's because we have a common enemy. Well, it's not that shiny, but that is the case. But really, it's about really finding things that... talk to to to really manage to to to reach people in the way that they they feel that they have to do something and so what do you think latvia would need really to accelerate its transition towards cleaner more sustainable consumption way and and cleaner energy what would it need really yeah i think that's a that's a big uh big question but um I believe that there is... There is a need for stronger public engagement in looking for these solutions and visions. Moving away from seeing public as a kind of passive consumer, but looking into this citizenship, that takes time. It's not maybe a short-term approach or short-term decisions. It's not that... the next year or everybody will be engaged but we have to we have to demonstrate these these good examples we have to provide simple understandable solutions both technological but in terms of kind of organizational solutions and and that could be helpful way way forward you As I mentioned, there are many NGOs who are working, and I think civil society is a good way forward, because, like I mentioned, there is low trust in government, and civil society is much more trusted. Engaging research in finding these good solutions, I think, is also... kind of crucial. There are different research programs, but sometimes they, yeah, maybe we focus too much on this fundamental research and not really try to look for these practical solutions for specific communities. There is also a lot of myths around energy production and consumption. There is a Many people who believe in all kinds of conspiracy theories around that, and especially for wind energy, for example, and for something else that shows this public awareness level on some of these issues.
Speaker #1
That's really super interesting and I didn't know that there were any kind of conspiracy, right? It's so hard for me to fathom that I can't pronounce the word. I didn't know that there were any conspiracy against wind energy because it seems like, I mean... From what I know about Baltic countries, you have also some neighbors who are quite pioneering in using more wind in their grids. And that seems to be quite straightforward somehow. And also because you are very north, so I would imagine that solar energy sometimes is not working as well as it does in more southern countries. So, you know, it seems really from an outsider perspective, wind looks way more. suitable somehow really uh really i don't know anything about latvia and you know i would imagine that it fits better to to the actual climate but but now you say it is like oh wow so if people don't are on themselves believing that well it creates i mean there is this enormous awareness gap that needs to be that needs to be addressed right yeah yeah i mean in summer we have the white night so the sun all almost 20 hours a day but
Speaker #0
But it's just maybe a few weeks. Like you said, winter months are very dark and there is very little solar production. But there is a huge wind energy potential. I mean, Baltic states are bought by the sea, so there is also offshore wind energy potential in the Baltic Sea. But there is a very big, not in my backyard, There is a resistance movement for wind park developments in Latvia and that's why the wind energy is very poorly developed. There are a few projects also going in offshore and also there. Local coastal communities are campaigning against the wind turbines, which would be maybe... 10-15 kilometers in the sea, but people say that would destroy their special view and all kind of things which I think are mostly grounded in that we don't know or there are some other interests from maybe competing energy producers to not to develop the wind energy. There is one more project now in Latvia where Latvian State Energy Company and Latvian State Forests are developing a joint project to build the wind farms in the forest because there is no people. So there is no one to complain. Of course, that's maybe not the best way from an environmental perspective because you have to cut the forests to put up the wind turbines there. But yeah, it seems to be the best forward-going project currently because there is little people to complain about this project because they are further away from anyone. So that's unfortunately the reality for some of the technological solutions. But we don't always have to rely on technology. We have to think more about the sufficiency of energy consumption and maybe also look into these latent forms of energy citizenship for those who are shifting from gas to solar or something else. But those who are looking for ways not to consume energy so much as they did for like energy diets of the future. And we are over consuming energy in many ways. And in the future, we have to think much more how to conserve energy, how to not over consume it and conserve it. And that's that's also not not very easy way forward because Many of these visions about the future energy and sustainable energy says that we have a lot of renewable, cheap, green, affordable. But I think we will be getting into other... problems with access of resources, for example, biomass, which we already discussed in Latvia or in other countries, but also solar energy or electric cars need a lot of mineral resources to provide. I don't think that we can get an electric car for every inhabitant on the planet. No, we will not be able to provide so much energy. so much resources and even if we have it know that there will be huge traffic jams all all over the place so we have to look for other ways how to how to actually uh get what uh what we want not to get these energy services uh which are which are needed and and what we expect from life from what is a good life in general now that it's a much bigger picture and bigger question maybe going out of the energy the bed but uh but uh Yeah, generally the debate about the good life and sustainable consumption corridors is also something which we are looking into. How much is enough so that it's enough for you to satisfy your kind of basic needs, but you are also not killing the planet by it.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and that's definitely the principles behind sufficiency rather than really efficiency, making sure that it works better. But actually, it also delivers better within the... the best limits of our planet and really to make sure that, let's say, the energy climate transition that we need don't deplete other resources, especially in other places or countries. So, I mean, it's been a super fascinating conversation, Yanis, but we are arriving at the very end. So, but I would like to leave really the floor to you because, I mean, you have such an interesting double hat as an activist with Green Liberty and as a researcher with the University of Latvia. So is there one thing that really makes you hopeful about Latvia or some? Yeah, really good example that you would like to share. Yeah, let's say if somebody wants to get inspired by Latvia, what would you like them to keep in mind?
Speaker #0
I think there are many good examples which we could look at. There are permaculture, for example, movement, which is, I think, getting popularity where people are looking into these simple solutions, something which you can do it by yourself for providing. Both housing, food and energy, which really follow the sufficiency principles we just discussed, that you're not really over-consuming resources. You're looking for local resources which are available in the community to build your well-being. So there are many, many of these, you can say, crazy people who are trying to... find other ways on how to live their lives. And I think that's inspiring. That may be not the mainstream now. I think it's very important that we have communities and organizations who are doing these social experiments and testing out these solutions. And I hope also inspire other people and could kind of encourage this ripple effect on getting other more people engaged. Scaling up many of these energy citizenship initiatives. I'm learning also from other countries how they've been doing and I'm looking forward to this process to take ground.
Speaker #1
That's really amazing. I mean, with Etina in the previous episode, we concluded that she was actually a rebel. She had rebel ideas, but you do also have rebel ideas. And you know, I didn't know that Energy Prospects was actually a project to... With Rebels, about Rebel ideas, that's truly inspiring. And really today I learned a lot. So thank you so much for this super insightful discussion. And I would like also to thank the Energy Prospect project managers and team. Thank you for making this episode possible. They have been our sponsor for these two episodes, 50 and 51. And now we're going to have also the following episode, the last part of the series. So we will further explore the impact of energy citizenship in the urban energy transition. So please stay tuned and join us next time to continue uncovering the significant strides. being made towards achieving the EU climate ambition, maybe with the rebel lens. Who knows? Thank you so much, Yanis.
Speaker #2
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Energetic. It's been a pleasure diving deep into the world of sustainability and the just energy transition with some of the most forward-thinking mouths out there. I'm Maureen Canales, your host from policy consultancy Next Energy Consumer, and it's been an incredible journey growing this podcast together with you, our knowledgeable and passionate listeners. Since 2021, we've shared countless stories, insights, and ideas over more than 40 episodes. And it's all thanks to your support and enthusiasm. If you're enjoying our journey so far and want to help us keep the conversation going, why not support us on Patreon? Every bit helps us bring more inspiring content your way. Check out the show notes for the link. And hey, if you're a part of an organization that shares our passion for a sustainable and inclusive energy future, we're excited to explore sponsorship opportunities with you. It's a fantastic way to connect with a dedicated audience and make an even bigger impact together. Shout out to the fantastic Igor Mikhailovich from Podcast Media Factory for his incredible sound design work, making every episode a joy to listen to. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to Energetic on your favorite podcast platform. And if you think a friend or a colleague could benefit from our episode, we'd love for you to spread the word. It helps us grow and keep the energy transition conversation alive. Sharing is caring. Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn to stay engaged and update on all things Energetic. Thanks once again for lending your ears. Until next time.
Speaker #3
I need your touch, I need you here, I need your touch, I need you here in my body. I need your touch, I need you here in my body.

About Energ’Ethic - Climate Justice and Energy Transition

At Energ'Ethic, we're not just talking about change: we're driving it.

We need to break boundaries and foster a diversity of viewpoints to build resilient energy and climate transition strategies that serve humanity.

Listen to:

- Hear inspiring personal stories and unique perspectives.

- Discover solutions in energy and climate justice.

- Connect with a passionate community driving sustainable change.

Support Energ'Ethic and amplify your impact. Partner with us to reach an engaged audience committed to a sustainable future.

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About Energ’Ethic - Climate Justice and Energy Transition

At Energ'Ethic, we're not just talking about change: we're driving it.

We need to break boundaries and foster a diversity of viewpoints to build resilient energy and climate transition strategies that serve humanity.

Listen to:

- Hear inspiring personal stories and unique perspectives.

- Discover solutions in energy and climate justice.

- Connect with a passionate community driving sustainable change.

Support Energ'Ethic and amplify your impact. Partner with us to reach an engaged audience committed to a sustainable future.

Ready to Make a Difference?

Listen, subscribe, and join us in turning conversations into actions for a just and sustainable world.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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