Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Welcome to FinTrends, the podcast series where we explore the hot trends and news in the financial sector with experts. Enchanté. In today's episode, Enchanté. we are diving into how open banking and embedded finance turn data into delight.

• Speaker #1

  Enchanté.

• Speaker #0

  And to help us explore this topic, I am joined by Nicolas Dejeuneau, Lead Product Manager for Open Banking at SBS. Before we get into it, Nicolas, could you please start by introducing yourself and share your experience with digital transformation, embedded finance and open banking?

• Speaker #2

  Sure,

• Speaker #3

  Sure,

• Speaker #2

  thank you Caroline for the invite.

• Speaker #3

  thank you Caroline for the invite.

• Speaker #2

  So,

• Speaker #3

  So,

• Speaker #2

  as you mentioned,

• Speaker #3

  as you mentioned,

• Speaker #2

  I'm a lead product manager for Open Banking,

• Speaker #3

  I'm the product manager for open banking,

• Speaker #2

  which means that since a few years ago,

• Speaker #3

  which means that since a few years ago,

• Speaker #2

  I handle the platform that protects banks for regulations like

• Speaker #3

  I handle the platform that protects banks for regulations like

• Speaker #2

  PSE2 and its future evolutions,

• Speaker #3

  PZ2 and its future evolutions,

• Speaker #2

  PSE3,

• Speaker #3

  PZ3, PSR,

• Speaker #2

  PSE4, to expose on behalf of banks all the APIs that...

• Speaker #3

  to expose on behalf of banks all the APIs that...

• Speaker #2

  aggregators,

• Speaker #3

  aggregators, third-party providers connect to,

• Speaker #2

  third-party providers connect to, to be able to access the customer's information.

• Speaker #3

  to be able to access the customer's information.

• Speaker #2

  And I also handle a wearable payment solution inside this platform as well as a secondary product.

• Speaker #3

  And I also handle a wearable payment solution inside this platform as well as a secondary product.

• Speaker #2

  But as a background,

• Speaker #3

  But as a background,

• Speaker #2

  I would say that I've always been in the banking industry at the beginning of my career.

• Speaker #3

  I would say that I've always been in the banking industry at the beginning of my career.

• Speaker #2

  So the first 10 years were working at the bank side.

• Speaker #3

  For the first 10 years, we're working at the bank side,

• Speaker #2

  So understanding how the bank processes the flows,

• Speaker #3

  so understanding how the bank processes the flows,

• Speaker #2

  understanding their end users,

• Speaker #3

  understanding their end users,

• Speaker #2

  how their clients interact with the banks has helped me to understand the other side of software.

• Speaker #3

  how their clients interact with with the banks has helped me to understand the other side of the software.

• Speaker #2

  and always been a passionate fan of fintechs and new app,

• Speaker #3

  I've always been a passionate fan of fintechs and new apps,

• Speaker #2

  new techs.

• Speaker #3

  new techs.

• Speaker #2

  Since 2014,

• Speaker #3

  Since 2014 when Revolut started,

• Speaker #2

  when Revolut started,

• Speaker #3

  I've been a user and I've been always looking at and testing every single new app that comes out to see how experiences have been changed in the past years.

• Speaker #2

  I've been a user, and I've been always looking at and testing every single new app that comes out to see how the experiences have been changed in the past years.

• Speaker #3

  That's my passion,

• Speaker #2

  That's my passion, try to bring that back to more traditional banks or to software so that clients and our clients can enable better experiences to be in sync with what the customer is expecting.

• Speaker #3

  trying to bring that back to more traditional banks or to software so that clients and our clients can enable better experiences to be in sync with what the customer is expecting.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, because we evolve in a world that is moving very fast.

• Speaker #1

  yeah because we we evolve in a world that is moving very fast so i was wondering how customer expectations for the experiences changed in recent years yeah definitely the expectations have changed a lot clients now are fully

• Speaker #0

  We live in a world that is more digital than ever. So I was wondering how have customer expectations for banking experiences changed in recent years?

• Speaker #3

  Yeah, definitely the expectations have changed a lot. Clients now are fully digital native clients.

• Speaker #2

  digital native clients they expect and they're trained not by banks but now by every lifestyle apps of every day could be

• Speaker #3

  They expect and they're trained not by banks, but now by every lifestyle. So every day could be music,

• Speaker #2

  music app streaming shopping app mobility app all of those apps Airbnb Netflix Amazon have trained the customers that their interactions have to be instant real-time intuitive and personalized so that it feels like it's done for that specific client even though we know it's not maybe specifically done for the client but it feels like it's really tailor-made for me and

• Speaker #3

  streaming, shopping app, mobility app, all of those apps, maybe Netflix, Amazon, have trained the customers that their interactions have to be instant, real-time, intuitive and personalized so that it feels like it's done for that specific client even though we know it's not made specifically for that client, it feels like it's really tailor-made for me and it's also invisible a lot of the features

• Speaker #2

  it's also invisible a lot of the features just come naturally you don't feel like you have to ask for something it just pops up automatically so that

• Speaker #3

  just come naturally you don't feel like you have to ask for something it just pops up automatically so that has become the new standard for digital experience so now clients when they open a bank app they expect to do that same thing they expect the loan to be instant take a few moments and they expect to minimize the

• Speaker #2

  has become the new standard for digital experience. So now clients, when they open a bank app, they expect the exact same thing. They expect the loan to be instant, take a few moments, and they expect to minimize the obstacles,

• Speaker #3

  obstacles having to upload documents or go through negative processes that's what's changed and of course when you look at new generations generation z alpha they're not 15 year

• Speaker #2

  having to upload documents or go through lengthy processes. So that's what's changed. And of course, when you look at new generations, Generation Z, Alpha, they're now 15-year-old, we need to think of ourselves,

• Speaker #3

  think of sales what would a 15 year old today think about the current banking experience if they open a regular app would they be in sync would they be happy with that experience so they definitely are expecting more they're expecting the bank's services to come to

• Speaker #2

  what would a 15-year-old today think about the current? banking experience if they open a regular app would they be in sync would they be happy with that experience so they definitely are expecting more and they're expecting the bank's services to come to them they don't want to come to banks they live in a stress-free world and whenever they need a moment of of need or they need a loan for a car at

• Speaker #3

  them they don't want to come to banks they live in a stress-free world and whenever they need a moment of need or they need a loan for a car at that specific moment they would like the bank to come to them

• Speaker #2

  that specific moment they would like the bank to come to them without a lot of redirections without a lot of wasting time so they want the Thanks.

• Speaker #3

  without a lot of redirection, without a lot of wasting time. So they want to invest in all of those experiences,

• Speaker #2

  to power all of those experiences. So then they become part of their lives.

• Speaker #3

  so then they become part of their lives. So that's the shift.

• Speaker #2

  So that's the shift, let's say. To you,

• Speaker #1

  what are the main differences between traditional banking and the new mode enabled by open market?

• Speaker #0

  To you, what are the main differences between traditional banking and the new models enabled by open banking and embedded finance?

• Speaker #3

  It's pretty simple for me,

• Speaker #2

  It's pretty simple for me or clear.

• Speaker #3

  or clear,

• Speaker #2

  Traditional banking mainly is pushing products out,

• Speaker #3

  traditional banking is pushing products out,

• Speaker #2

  pushing products through their channels only,

• Speaker #3

  pushing products through their channels only.

• Speaker #2

  whether it's their physical channels,

• Speaker #3

  their physical channels, branches or advisors,

• Speaker #2

  branches or advisors,

• Speaker #3

  but also through their apps,

• Speaker #2

  but also through their apps.

• Speaker #3

  or many apps that they may have.

• Speaker #2

  or many apps that they may have.

• Speaker #3

  So they're pushing products out without specifically targeting a specific client.

• Speaker #2

  So they're pushing products out without specifically targeting a specific client. It's just waiting for clients to interact.

• Speaker #3

  It's just waiting for clients to interact.

• Speaker #2

  The new models are pushing those services into other distribution channels so that every app or every non-banking flow can embed banking products and services in that flow,

• Speaker #3

  The new models are pushing those services into other distribution channels so that every app or every non-banking flow can embed banking products and services in that flow,

• Speaker #2

  in that moment of intent.

• Speaker #3

  in that moment of intent.

• Speaker #2

  So you're switching the way you're distributing your products so that broadens the amount of clients you can reach and lower your...

• Speaker #3

  So you're switching the way you distribute your products. so that broadens the amount of clients you can reach and lower your acquisition cost and make sure that you're at the right place at the right moment.

• Speaker #2

  acquisition costs and make sure that you're at the right place at the right moment.

• Speaker #3

  You're not just waiting.

• Speaker #2

  You're not just waiting. You have to be more proactive.

• Speaker #3

  You have to be more proactive.

• Speaker #2

  So that's the big switch,

• Speaker #3

  So that's the big switch,

• Speaker #2

  how to be proactive and how to connect behind.

• Speaker #3

  how to be proactive and how to connect.

• Speaker #2

  the apps that my client is using on a daily basis.

• Speaker #3

  the apps that my client is using on a daily basis.

• Speaker #1

  At the beginning,

• Speaker #0

  At the beginning,

• Speaker #1

  you were saying that financial services are becoming more invisible.

• Speaker #0

  you were saying that financial services are becoming more and more invisible.

• Speaker #1

  How does open banking allow financial services to become more invisible and integrated into customer-led daily lives?

• Speaker #0

  How does open banking allow financial services to become more invisible and integrated into customers' daily lives?

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, in order to do that,

• Speaker #3

  In order to do that, you definitely need products that feel personalized,

• Speaker #2

  you definitely need products that feel personalized, that feel tailor-made to you.

• Speaker #3

  that feel tailor-made to you.

• Speaker #2

  And to do that,

• Speaker #3

  And to do that,

• Speaker #2

  you need data.

• Speaker #3

  you need that.

• Speaker #2

  So when you have a client that's been banking with you for a long time,

• Speaker #3

  So when you have a client that's been banking with you for a long time,

• Speaker #2

  you have a lot of data already.

• Speaker #3

  you have a lot of data already.

• Speaker #2

  So maybe you don't need more,

• Speaker #3

  so maybe you don't need more but the issue is mainly with new clients or profit clients where you don't have a lot of information they use your bank for just a few things you need additional data that's where open banking comes and it's a game changer because it allows to connect external banking information with of course customer consent bring

• Speaker #2

  but the issue is mainly with new clients or prospect clients where you don't have a lot of information. They use your bank for just a few things. You need additional data. That's where open banking comes, and it's a game changer because it allows to connect external banking information with, of course, your customer consent. Bring that information,

• Speaker #3

  that information three twelve months worth of transaction inside and thanks to that you're instantly getting a full picture 360 degree picture of your client which allows you then to

• Speaker #2

  three, 12 months worth of transaction inside. and thanks to that you're instantly getting a full picture 360 degree picture of your client which allows you then to

• Speaker #3

  tailor your offers and adapt and push exactly what is it that the client is expecting.

• Speaker #2

  tailor-made offers and adapt and push exactly what is it that the client is expecting.

• Speaker #3

  That's the big change and the easiness to share that information is key.

• Speaker #2

  That's the big change. And the easiness to share that information is key. So you don't have to share a paper statement that you don't know where it will end up anyhow.

• Speaker #3

  So you don't have to share a paper statement that you don't know where it will end up anyhow and a lot of people have seen that information which may be confidential.

• Speaker #2

  And a lot of people have seen that information, which is maybe confidential.

• Speaker #3

  Here is an API based transfer of information where the customer knows exactly what he's He is sharing that information for how long,

• Speaker #2

  Here's an API-based transfer of information where the customer knows exactly what he's sharing that information for, for how long, to whom.

• Speaker #3

  to whom,

• Speaker #2

  He has context and he can stop.

• Speaker #3

  he has context and he can stop. remove that incentive he wants to at any time and regain back the information.

• Speaker #1

  remove that consent if he wants to at any time and regain back the information let's say yeah so definitely there's many steps the first one is the banks need to make sure that they know how to use their internal data already whatever they already know about the client to

• Speaker #0

  I'm wondering what are the steps toward invisible banking and why each step is important?

• Speaker #3

  Yeah, so definitely there's many steps. The first one is the banks need to make sure that they know how to use their internal data already, whatever they already know about the client, to be in a place where it can be consumed and tapped into.

• Speaker #2

  be in a place where it can be consumed and tapped into then it's using open banking data

• Speaker #3

  Then it's using open banking data.

• Speaker #2

  which exists since 2018,

• Speaker #3

  which exists since 2018 at least in Europe and for longer times across the world using that because it's available for you to use it for getting to know better your client and then to that you also add everything contextual data which is coming from those platforms non-banking platforms so you know exactly what the client is doing now is

• Speaker #2

  at least in Europe and for longer times across the world, using that because it's available for you. So use it for getting to know better your client. And then to that, you also add everything that has to do with contextual data, which is coming from those platforms, non-banking platforms. So you know exactly what the client is doing now. He's looking for a flight.

• Speaker #3

  looking for a flight okay so you get that information so you know at one moment of that journey should me as a bank tell the client hey by the way here's a loan for your flight here's of insurance

• Speaker #2

  Okay, so you get that information. So at what moment of that journey should me as a bank Tell the client, hey, by the way, here's a loan for your flight or here's an insurance. Here's what you need at that moment.

• Speaker #3

  here's what you need at that moment so it feels again personalized because it's coming at the right moment and then allows the banks to tailor or know exactly what's the best moment to intervene in that journey so when you do that those steps the more you use this the more you get information from your client on a daily basis where they are what they are doing so the more you can learn and the more you can get tailor-made products

• Speaker #2

  So it feels, again, personalized. It feels that it's coming at the right moment. And it allows the banks to tailor or know exactly what's the best moment to intervene in that journey. So when you do those steps, the more you use this, the more you get information from your client on a daily basis, where they are, what they are doing. So the more you can learn and the more you can, again, tailor make your products to fit that specific mold and fit what the clients need in a simple way.

• Speaker #3

  to fit that specific model and fit what about the client's need in a simple way without asking again.

• Speaker #2

  without asking again the same information to the client.

• Speaker #3

  the same information to the client. So this is powering this hyper personalization and the new products in other distribution channels.

• Speaker #2

  So this is powering this hyper-personalization and the new products in other distribution channels.

• Speaker #1

  How much do you do APIs and reautomated data playing in enabling the device and the customer experience?

• Speaker #0

  And from a technical point of view, what role do APIs and real-time data play in enabling embedded finance and better customer experiences?

• Speaker #2

  Well,

• Speaker #3

  APIs are key because they're like the underlying infrastructure,

• Speaker #2

  APIs are key because they're like the underlying infrastructure,

• Speaker #3

  this web of connections that allow to quickly and seamlessly embed into other partners.

• Speaker #2

  this web of connections that allow to... quickly and seamlessly embed into other partner journeys.

• Speaker #3

  journeys and by having all of this through an API it's very simple for a partner to embed and connect different things in different places of the journey without having to do transformational projects.

• Speaker #2

  And by having all of this through an API, it's very simple for a partner to embed and connect different things in different places of the journey without having to do transformational projects. It is simple to use.

• Speaker #3

  It is simple to use,

• Speaker #2

  It is a simple onboarding.

• Speaker #3

  it's a simple onboarding,

• Speaker #2

  Developers know how to tap into APIs easily.

• Speaker #3

  developers know how to tap into APIs easily,

• Speaker #2

  So it's something that has been around for a long time.

• Speaker #3

  so it's something that has been around for a long time,

• Speaker #2

  So it's not magic,

• Speaker #3

  so it's not magic,

• Speaker #2

  no?

• Speaker #3

  it's not something that's hard to use,

• Speaker #2

  It's not something that is hard to use.

• Speaker #3

  but they might need to make sure that whatever they're exposing,

• Speaker #2

  But the banks need to make sure that whatever they're exposing, the quality of the APIs,

• Speaker #3

  the quality of the APIs...

• Speaker #2

  The description of those APIs and the process to actually allow people to connect is really lean and clean.

• Speaker #3

  the description of those APIs and the process to actually allow people to connect is really lean and clean so it feels simple that's the most important so APIs are key foundation to interoperability connection and changing information.

• Speaker #2

  So it feels simple. That's most important. So APIs are a key foundation to interoperability, connection, and changing information.

• Speaker #1

  Do you have any examples of personalization that open banking and the like can deliver?

• Speaker #0

  Do you have any examples of personalization that open banking and embedded finance can deliver?

• Speaker #2

  I mean,

• Speaker #3

  I mean

• Speaker #2

  I would say one of the more clear examples is probably around,

• Speaker #3

  I would say one of the more clear examples is probably around

• Speaker #2

  I would say,

• Speaker #3

  say a car loan because that's a good example where you're looking for a car online so you're browsing on that webpage you find a few elements usually clients already know more or less the type of car they're looking for so they're going to select a specific filter of the amount of the car the type of brand is it electrical is it petrol is it for five seven people so that gives you a lot of contextual information from the client so that's one thing you're getting

• Speaker #2

  for example, a car loan, because that's a cool example where you're looking for a car online. So you're browsing on that web page. You find a few elements. Usually clients already know more or less the type of car they are looking for. So they're going to select a specific filter of the amount of the car, the type of brand. Is it electrical? Is it petrol? Is it for five, seven people? So that gives you a lot of contextual information from the client. So that's one thing you're getting. Then when you're getting open banking data,

• Speaker #3

  then when you're getting all the banking data you get even more information about the client to make sure that he will be approved and combining these two that allows the banks to very quickly tell the client and caroline you are approved for your car no worries you can have the 20 000 euros you need and by the way

• Speaker #2

  you're getting even more information about the client to make sure that he will be approved. And combining these two then allows the banks to very quickly tell the client, hey, Caroline, you are approved for your car. No worries. You can have the 20,000 euros you need. And by the way, this is a loan.

• Speaker #3

  This is a loan that is specifically tailor-made for you because it's going to adapt to your current income capacity.

• Speaker #2

  specifically tailor-made for you because it's going to adapt to your current income capacity. If you can only afford 400 euros per month as a payment,

• Speaker #3

  If you can only afford 400 euros per month as a payment,

• Speaker #2

  we will do a plan so that you can actually pay that amount on your car.

• Speaker #3

  we will do a plan so that you can actually pay that amount on your car.

• Speaker #2

  And by the way,

• Speaker #3

  And by the way,

• Speaker #2

  you've taken all risk insurance on your car.

• Speaker #3

  you've taken all risk insurance on your car, so that shows me that you're protecting the asset,

• Speaker #2

  So that shows me that you're protecting the assets. So maybe I can even reduce a bit more the rate because there's less risk that the car will be lost and then the customers having zero.

• Speaker #3

  so maybe I can even reduce a bit more the rate because there's less risk that the car will be lost and then the customer is having zero at the end of the day.

• Speaker #2

  at the end of the day. So all of this allows to hyper-personalize and come back with a specific product or add on features around the product at that moment of intent behind that car website that you're looking for,

• Speaker #3

  So all of it allows to hyper personalize and come back with a specific product or add on features around the product at that moment of intent behind that Car website that you're looking for making the experience faster So you don't have to go through forms waiting three four five a week or ten days to actually get a loan approved

• Speaker #2

  making the experience faster. So you don't have to go through forms waiting three, four, five, a week or 10 days to actually get a loan approved. And you also reduce the churn rates.

• Speaker #3

  And you also reduce the churn rates. You also do reduce the dropout rates for the partner So the car dealership has a lot to a lot to gain because he's selling right away.

• Speaker #2

  You also reduce the dropout rates for the partner. So the car dealership has a lot to gain because he's selling right away. He doesn't need to wait.

• Speaker #3

  He doesn't need to wait

• Speaker #2

  10 days hoping that the banking process happens how it's supposed to happen they know in advance already that the product is approved it's there and the client just needs to click it in within two minutes he he goes on his way and from a bank perspective what challenges do

• Speaker #3

  then they're hoping that the banking process happens how it's supposed to happen. They know in advance already that the product is approved, it's there, and the client chooses to click and within two minutes he goes on his work.

• Speaker #0

  And from a bank perspective, what challenges do they face in adopting these new models and how can they overcome them?

• Speaker #2

  they face in adopting these new models and how can they overcome them in general yeah definitely it's a challenge in the sense that they need powerful platforms to allow them to tap into their legacy

• Speaker #0

  I'm talking about traditional banks.

• Speaker #3

  Yeah, definitely it's a challenge in the sense that they need. a platform to allow them to tap into their legacy products wherever they have their information stored.

• Speaker #2

  products wherever they have their information stored it needs to be available and in real time so it needs always to be available through strong and fast apis and in a performance a structure or infrastructure to be able to use that data they need also a performance platform to be able to connect to the external data and and have all those process embedded in their dna how do we handle data how do we make sure it's gdpr compliant how do we make sure we get the right consent from the client how can we be transparent to the client because we need to to protect the client as well.

• Speaker #3

  It needs to be available and in real time, so it needs always to be available through strong fast APIs and they need a performance infrastructure to be able to use that data. They need also a performance platform to be able to connect to the external data and have all those processes embedded in their DNA. How do we handle data? How do we make sure it's GDPR compliant? How do we make sure we get the right consent from the client? How can we be transparent to the client? We need to protect the client as well. So you need to combine all of these things internally in your DNA to be able to actually start providing products.

• Speaker #2

  So you need to combine all of these things internally in your DNA to be able to actually start providing products. And this is not a one-time job.

• Speaker #3

  And this is not a one-time job. It's a loop,

• Speaker #2

  It's a loop. So you need to refine the product.

• Speaker #3

  so you need to refine the product. The more information you get,

• Speaker #2

  The more information you get,

• Speaker #3

  the more connections you get,

• Speaker #2

  the more connections you get. You're going to learn what has the client selected,

• Speaker #3

  you're going to learn what has the client selected,

• Speaker #2

  what type of products are the more popular for a specific type of clientele.

• Speaker #3

  what type of products are the more popular for a specific type of client.

• Speaker #2

  So thanks to that,

• Speaker #3

  So thanks to that,

• Speaker #2

  you come back to your product teams and they can adapt the products live and decompose alone in many different sub-features.

• Speaker #3

  you come back to your product teams and they can adapt the products. live and decomposed alone in many different sub-features that you can add on and move.

• Speaker #2

  that you can add on and move which that's how you want to feel you want to feel that your product is modular so that the customer is actually the one sort of selecting how he wants the loan to be or the the accounts or the investment whatever product you're pushing because again it's not only loans it's any product

• Speaker #3

  Which that's how you want to feel. You want to feel that your product is modular, so that the customer is actually the one sort of selecting how he wants the loan to be. All the accounts, all the investments, whatever product you're pushing, because again it's not only loans, it's any product that you have,

• Speaker #2

  that you have you can embed that product at another uh the moment of intent in a specific page so investments could be that but if i understand what is your

• Speaker #3

  you can embed that product at the moment of intent in a specific page. investments could be that. So if I understand what is your fiscal position,

• Speaker #2

  fiscal position, do you have kids,

• Speaker #3

  do you have kids,

• Speaker #2

  are you married,

• Speaker #3

  are you married,

• Speaker #2

  I might be able to give you the best investment advice thanks to that.

• Speaker #3

  I might be able to give you the best investment advice thanks to that.

• Speaker #2

  But if I don't have that information,

• Speaker #3

  But if I don't have that information,

• Speaker #2

  my advice or the recommendation from the bank might be not the perfect one.

• Speaker #3

  my advice or the recommendation from the bank might be not the perfect one.

• Speaker #2

  So you can get lost in translation.

• Speaker #3

  So you can get lost in translation.

• Speaker #2

  You need to find the right moments,

• Speaker #3

  You need to find the right moments,

• Speaker #2

  the right information to be able to push the exact thing that the customer is expecting.

• Speaker #3

  the right information to be able to push the exact thing that the customer is expecting.

• Speaker #2

  So again,

• Speaker #3

  So again,

• Speaker #2

  it feels natural.

• Speaker #3

  it feels natural,

• Speaker #2

  It feels like the bank is talking my language.

• Speaker #3

  it feels like the bank is talking my language,

• Speaker #2

  They know who I am.

• Speaker #3

  they know who I am.

• Speaker #2

  So of course,

• Speaker #3

  Of course,

• Speaker #2

  I'm going to have more chances to say yes to that for it.

• Speaker #3

  I'm going to have more chances to say yes to that product.

• Speaker #2

  And it's way simpler for a bank to get clients this way than going on the street with banners and advertisements hoping to get to the right person with one monolithic product that is saying,

• Speaker #3

  And it's way simpler for a bank to get clients this way than going on the street with banners and advertisements hoping to get to the right person with one monolithic product that is saying,

• Speaker #2

  I do loans.

• Speaker #3

  I do loans.

• Speaker #2

  No,

• Speaker #3

  No,

• Speaker #2

  we need to break that into specific type of loans so that you really reach that specific clientele.

• Speaker #3

  we need to break that into specific type of loans so that we really reach that specific type of loan.

• Speaker #2

  So even if it wouldn't be perfect,

• Speaker #1

  what would be your advice to a bank that wants to transfer data into trust through open banking and data points?

• Speaker #0

  So even if it wouldn't be perfect, what would be your advice to a bank? that want to transform data into trust through open banking and embedded finance?

• Speaker #3

  I would just say not to be scared to start small.

• Speaker #2

  I would just say not be scared to start small.

• Speaker #3

  You can start with one layer at a time.

• Speaker #2

  You can start with one layer at a time. Start by first getting to use your internal data already better.

• Speaker #3

  Start by first getting to use your internal data already better.

• Speaker #2

  So if you're able to make sure that your products are starting to be personalized based on your internal data,

• Speaker #3

  So if you're able to make sure that your products are starting to be personalized based on your internal data,

• Speaker #2

  you already know more or less how to do it.

• Speaker #3

  you already know more or less how to do it.

• Speaker #2

  Then you add another layer,

• Speaker #3

  Then you add another layer, which is open banking data.

• Speaker #2

  which is open banking data. So you connect with an aggregator,

• Speaker #3

  You connect with an aggregator,

• Speaker #2

  you go fetch the best information out there from your clients,

• Speaker #3

  you go fetch the best information out there from your clients. and you start ingesting for small use cases maybe only for loan origination to reduce risk to get to do a credit scoring faster without paper so already the customer is gaining he doesn't need to give you statements or income statements that the process can be done in a minute but

• Speaker #2

  and you start ingesting for small use cases, maybe only for... loan origination to reduce risk to get to do a credit scoring faster without paper so already the customer is gaining he doesn't need to give you statements or income statements and the process can is done in a minute but at the same time you're getting a lot of information so you also get to learn more about the client and then starting to continue

• Speaker #3

  at the same time you're getting a lot of information so you also get to learn more about the client and then starting to continue your loop to okay what else can i offer this client based on what I got.

• Speaker #2

  your loop to okay what else can i offer this client based on what i got and then you have the third layer which is now i'm ready to actually expose my apis and my services to embed in different places

• Speaker #3

  And then you have the third layer which is now I'm ready to actually explore my APIs and my services to embed in different places, different platforms,

• Speaker #2

  different platforms and that's when you bring the contextual data in as well so those three layers can happen progressively and once you reach a third layer you have the whole vision of the client and you can start playing with that and then you start with one product then you can add another product and the more use cases you start adding to that loop the bigger it becomes and that becomes your your mode or your protection your your wall against competitors the best tailor

• Speaker #3

  and that's when you bring the contextual data in as well. So those three layers can happen progressively. Once you reach a third layer, you have the whole vision of the client and you can start playing with that and then Start with one product, then you can add another product, and the more use cases you start adding to the loop, the bigger it becomes and that becomes your mode or your protection, your wall against competitors. The best tailor personalized products you have,

• Speaker #2

  personalized products you have the harder it will be for competitors to move you out of their way.

• Speaker #3

  the harder it will be for competitors to move you out of their way.

• Speaker #2

  So that's the idea.

• Speaker #3

  So that's the idea.

• Speaker #2

  Start small,

• Speaker #3

  Start small,

• Speaker #2

  but start.

• Speaker #3

  but start.

• Speaker #2

  Use open banking data.

• Speaker #3

  Use open banking data.

• Speaker #2

  It's at a really mature level,

• Speaker #3

  It's at a really mature level.

• Speaker #2

  and it's only going to get better in quality with the new regulations.

• Speaker #3

  It's only going to get better in quality within your regulations.

• Speaker #2

  There's going to be more and more information available,

• Speaker #3

  There's going to be more and more information available,

• Speaker #2

  not only account information,

• Speaker #3

  not only accounting. information that eventually FIDA or these type of regulations come into play in a few years,

• Speaker #2

  but eventually if FIDA or these type of regulations come into play in a few years, you'll have access to loans,

• Speaker #3

  we'll have access to loans, mortgages,

• Speaker #2

  mortgages, investment,

• Speaker #3

  investment,

• Speaker #2

  a lot more data that can be really useful at the moment of providing a service to your client.

• Speaker #3

  a lot more data that can be really useful at the moment of providing a service to the client.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you so much, Nicolas, for being with us and sharing your insights.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you so much for being with us and sharing your insights.

• Speaker #3

  Thank you, Caroline.

• Speaker #2

  Thank you,

• Speaker #3

  Great to be here.

• Speaker #2

  Caroline. Great to be here.