Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Guess what? I'm moving country again. I don't know, maybe a year, maybe more. Where's home? Home's everywhere. I'm an expat. It's Pauline from Meet the Expats and today I meet with Megan Nichols who is a language coach. currently based in Mexico. She previously moved to Germany in the past and is now a digital nomad teaching English abroad. Hi Megan, how are you?

• Speaker #1

  Hi, I'm really good. Thank you so much for having me.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you for joining. So yeah, excited to learn more about your journey and of course some tips about learning languages. This is a big... Big thing, a big challenge for expats when they move abroad to a country where they don't speak the language. Language is a big deal to actually feel comfortable. And it can be hard, it can be nerve wracking. So we'll definitely dive into some of your tips. Before I'll give you the floor so you can introduce yourself and tell us a bit more about your background.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, thank you so much. So I'm from the UK. And I think I started learning my first language when I was four years old. I got taken to French lessons and it was all just a bit of a game for me. I didn't realize it was like a skill or anything I would use later in life. And yeah, now I have created my own business, Mega Language Coach, and living the digital nomad life, as you said, and loving traveling the world.

• Speaker #0

  Wow. So let's go back to when you were four. How did you, and you say I was taken to a French class.

• Speaker #1

  how did this come up like it doesn't come naturally that kids that age are just sent french class there has to be a reason behind it uh i don't know i think i was taken to lots of different activities which i'm really grateful it was kind of like with the ballet and the swimming it was just like another activity okay um extracurricular yeah and i took to it um i really enjoyed it don't have much choice when you're four but it was a happy coincidence i think

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I just wouldn't think it would be the first choice, you know, when you're four.

• Speaker #1

  I'm going to do the same for my kids, so I don't know.

• Speaker #0

  I mean, I get it once you've gotten into it and it becomes your job in a way and you really enjoy that logic and the game around it. Why not? Yeah, absolutely. And you do see the value as an adult, of course. All right. Well, how did you first move to Germany and start that whole journey abroad?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I was looking back the other day and it's been about 10 years now, which is terrifying, but it's also flown by, as I'm sure you can relate to with any traveler. So I took a gap year after my A-levels in the UK before going to university. And I wanted to go abroad and work and get some life skills and get some experience. So I was an au pair for a family in Germany for nine months. And that was how it all started. I went to night school. So I was speaking English with the kids. And then I went to night school to help my German.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. How is learning German compared to learning French? I want to say not learning English, of course.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, German is a whole different ballgame. I'm sure some of your listeners can relate. it's really different to a lot of the romance languages that um are typically seen as easier like spanish or french or italian german i love it and i'm a big advocate for it because i think it gets a bad reputation um but yeah you have you have to be dedicated to the grammar to to enjoy that challenge yeah and the mindset around that whole grammar logic it feels very different okay

• Speaker #0

  so nine months abroad as an au pair you're discovering life new culture and life abroad within the family so I guess you have a bit more of a deeper understanding of the culture I'd say the immersion is probably bigger than when you're a

• Speaker #1

  student moving abroad with all the internationals at the same time yeah I was so grateful that it was like a host family and they would take me to different events you know I had like carnival and things I would never have done probably on my own. So that was a good kind of scaffolding or support network.

• Speaker #0

  And how did you feel and sort of, I want to say, soak up all that? culture or the discovery?

• Speaker #1

  I'm not gonna lie it was hard because it was my first like proper time abroad so I did have a lot of homesickness I did kind of think what am I doing it was at that time in my life when everybody else I knew had gone straight to university so I was definitely the odd one out but as like as I experienced it more and more I realized the value of it and Germany was really important politically at the time for Europe and centrally located so I could see like how this would play out long term and I thought that the culture and the understanding would be valuable.

• Speaker #0

  Okay so what was your next step after that being an au pair?

• Speaker #1

  I had a quick stay in the south of France doing a language immersion program for the summer and then I went to university to study languages and business languages okay yeah and there's a compulsory third year abroad so I split that between Germany and France.

• Speaker #0

  And so you were studying those two languages in?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah absolutely and yeah I loved it and then I went back to Germany but this time I was teaching English so that was kind of a role reversal and I really enjoyed that getting my TEFL qualification and in France I was in a chocolate factory and Disneyland Paris so. I had the whole spectrum of experiences.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, let's start with the teaching English in Germany then. As someone who is learning languages, I can imagine teaching your native language is maybe a different approach. And how did you sort of switch from learning to being able to explain? the reasons and the grammar, et cetera, of your native language.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, absolutely. I think there's the incorrect assumption that if you're a native speaker, then you can teach it instantly. Or that you can translate all the text, you know. I've had both of those thrown at me. I think the TEFL course that I did, 120 hours, was really helpful to give that foundation. Because if you ask a native speaker, oh, why does this grammar rule exist? And they'll be like, what grammar rule? They don't even know what you're talking about. They're like, oh, it just is. So I didn't want to give that experience to the kids who I was teaching in their school. I wanted to be able to give them the answers, especially to the logical Germans where everything has a rule and English is not like that at all. So, yeah, it was definitely challenging to kind of have that flip, but I really enjoyed it.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, and did you feel, I mean, you hadn't taught English before in another country then, or in England. Okay, so it was the first time really teaching Germans. Did you feel that cultural difference, apart from the language that obviously they were learning?

• Speaker #1

  Not so much the first time I did it, because it was children. And I think they're naturally very inquisitive and very curious, and they see like the excitement in learning. But when I went back during the pandemic, I was teaching business English mainly to bankers and then I did see a bit more of a cultural difference this kind of mindset that because they're adults that they have to have it all together and that frustration

• Speaker #0

  I don't think it's unique to Germans but that was probably the difference I think it's a lot more of a struggle learning a new language as an adult and seeing that suddenly you you can't speak and you can't express yourself which probably is one of the biggest challenges for expats. each time they don't have that language is they often say it it's as if I'm starting from scratch as a kid and I just don't know my my way around or the rules or or anything yeah

• Speaker #1

  exactly and that can be very frustrating and it can feel humiliating because a lot of my clients or students are experts in their own field and they're very very intelligent people but then they can't communicate what they did at the weekend. and I can totally understand why that would feel like some kind of power has been taken away.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And so how do you approach this with these clients in order to sort of help build that confidence?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, absolutely. So a lot of the time they say, I want to be more confident. And when we dig down a little deeper, we realize it's actually nothing to do with the language. It's a mindset. And it's a skill and how we develop these confidence tools. So we look at body language, we look at limiting beliefs, we look at learned helplessness. Lots of different tools which then they can apply to different areas of their life.

• Speaker #0

  What's learned helplessness?

• Speaker #1

  So it's when your brain kind of sees a pattern that you couldn't do something for so many times, and then it believes that you can't do it.

• Speaker #0

  So you have this like, oh,

• Speaker #1

  well, I wasn't able to do it for three times, so now I'll never be able to do it again. And then we get stuck in that. So it's like unlearning it. Whereas kids traditionally, they fall down five times, they'll get up six. They don't have that kind of hesitancy. Exactly. So I try and encourage embracing your inner child in that.

• Speaker #0

  aspect interesting yeah so it goes way beyond just the language the technique the grammar um it's interesting that you you say this I think it's the first time I've I think I've always heard of it people going to traditional classes but never really blending that real coaching piece that goes indeed with the the confidence buildings yeah

• Speaker #1

  I think there is a big difference between language lessons and language coaching. and I'm trying to explain the difference because it's not just about the language. Like they are transferable skills that we can use in hopefully all other aspects of our life. You know, I've had clients say that they've succeeded in presentations in their native language because of the tools that we've learned. So that's really rewarding.

• Speaker #0

  Nice. Yeah. All right. So you were teaching in Germany and... Now you are currently in Mexico. You've become a digital nomad. Talk us through that transition of lifestyle, teaching in a school, day-to-day kids, adults, and how you make that move.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it wasn't so easy as that. The pandemic stopped lots of travel. So that was kind of a forced choice rather than having much control over it. But in between, I worked on cruise ships and I was traveling a lot. And I got exposed to a lot more different cultures and languages, which was exciting. And to improve my Spanish, I then came to Mexico for a little bit. And yeah, the same week I moved here, I was like, OK, I'm going to start my own business. This is the time. So I'm not sure if I would recommend it to anybody else that's listening because there's a lot of change at once. But anybody knows me knows that I don't do anything by half. So I was I was going to give it all a chance. And yeah, I haven't looked back. So I guess something went right.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, probably. So why Mexico? Obviously, to Spanish, you were trying to improve. But had you looked at other destinations? And did you sort of know you were going to, I imagine you had a little bit in the back of your mind that you were going to build a business at some point?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's been on the back burner for a while. It wasn't just a spontaneous decision one Tuesday morning.

• Speaker #0

  That was your time.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I love the sunshine. I don't do well with the UK weather. When I was on the cruise ship, I met my partner there, who's Mexican. So it felt like a natural transition at that time.

• Speaker #0

  All right. And you've been there for how long now?

• Speaker #1

  Just over a year.

• Speaker #0

  A year. Alright, how's the settling in? How has that been?

• Speaker #1

  It's never felt like settling in for me because I knew that we were just going to be here for a while. So actually at the end of this month, I'm leaving and we're applying for Spanish visas. So I think it's been challenging in the fact that I knew it was temporary from the outset. And I think a lot of expats when they go abroad, they're trying to make that their forever home or at least for a long time. work contract. I don't know, I have that maybe the idea that it's a bit more permanent, whereas I knew this wasn't. So I knew I would be making friends to leave them and I would be getting into a routine to stop it. But I've honestly loved it. It's been a really good experience linguistically and culturally.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And so do you feel that having that deadline of one year that put limits in terms of what you were I want to say how you were going to enjoy your relationships. As you say, it was harder to make friends, but was it in a way yourself holding back or also others, which I understand I've heard this before and I get it. I've sort of asked that question, how long are you here for? And that sort of decides how much that person's going to invest in you.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, absolutely. It goes both ways. I'm living in a place where it's very transient and people come and go and there are lots of digital nomads and people. that are just here maybe for the winter months so I think the community is kind of very used to this yeah temporary state but I tried to see the positive side of it that it's got the time limit on it so it's made me go okay what's everything I want to do in a year you know I wrote yeah I'm a big list maker yeah I wrote a big list of everything I want to see in Mexico and all the things that I want to do I'm like taking them off and like okay

• Speaker #0

  I've really made the most of this experience so yeah but that's great because I think it's something that when an expat goes in for long term sometimes there is a bit of that oh no I can I'll push that back because I'm here. until I don't know when and then suddenly when they do have that deadline they start squishing the whole bucket list within six months when they've been there for 10 you know yeah because you feel like it's forever so maybe you don't make the most of it as much yeah all right and so why was it that

• Speaker #1

  decision to only stay one year why so so limited in time um I think that I know I want to be in Europe more long term. It's been... a lot more difficult after brexit um with visas and residency but i think long term that's where i would like to be based so it was just kind of figuring that out giving like breathing time you know yeah all right interesting okay

• Speaker #0

  um maybe let's go back to the language piece so we talked a little bit about you helping people work on that the confidence piece the limits um the yeah helpless and all the beliefs and that we can have do you have any like practical tips on that confidence piece and then maybe we'll talk about more practical tips in terms of learning a language yeah

• Speaker #1

  I definitely encourage a growth mindset especially when I work with a lot of adults they think it's too late and they think that they can't do it and I think if you find a goal that will guide you. you let that be the thread that leads you instead of the fear of making the mistakes. So the goal of maybe not becoming fluent because that's unachievable and unrealistic. Sorry to burst the bubble, but maybe that you can order a coffee and do it all in the language. And then instead of the fear that you can't conjugate a verb in the conditional, you're not going to be worrying about that because you're going to worry about whether it's oat milk or almond milk, you know. And that goal is going to be fundamental into leading where you're taking your language and which journey it's going to take you.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, so yeah, more setting small, achievable goals where you can actually see the process and build that confidence from there.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, language is made to be used, not just to be studied. It's not a theoretical thing. In my opinion, it's really practical. So if you're finding the joy in the practice rather than the dread in the study, I think you're going to enjoy it a lot.

• Speaker #0

  more and learn a lot more yeah and in terms of learning so there is that goal setting and being able to practice um but just in terms of perhaps getting i don't know specific logic or assimilating either maybe vocabulary or grammar what do you see work depending on personalities or traits yeah i think immersion is really key

• Speaker #1

  We talked about this when I was an au pair. And obviously it's not always possible. But there are so many things nowadays that you can do to really surround yourself in the language. I always encourage my clients to change their phone to the language that they're learning. Because we have this muscle memory. Like we know where the buttons are. We know like even a keyboard, you know. But we're just going to see it.

• Speaker #0

  The apps now are just visual.

• Speaker #1

  Right. But you're going to see those words and then you're going to be like. oh okay I know this is the word for download and you're going to learn it in a way that you're not even thinking about learning it so that's another like immersion technique you can watch any tv show or movie it might not be fully at first you can put the subtitles or you can listen to it in one language or the other but you would be doing those activities anyway I go to exercise classes and I that in the local language. And normally you have a visual cue. You're watching somebody else do it. They're giving the instructions. Everybody's doing the same thing. So you're not going to feel completely lost, but it's just training your brain to hear the sounds of a language that might be completely foreign to you.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. And what about conversation classes or groups? I feel they're very helpful, but they can be dreading, I guess, when you haven't built that confidence in terms of freely expressing yourself.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I think there's no right or wrong way, whatever works for you personally. Some people are more outgoing. They love meeting new people and they love putting themselves in those situations. Some people wait until they feel ready. If you're looking for something more informal, I really recommend language meetups or exchanges or tandem programs, which are normally voluntary. And so the other person is there to learn your language and they're interested in your culture, where you're from. you have something to offer rather than you're just absorbing and trying to learn everything that you're useful to each other and it's kind of a mutual yeah yeah that for sure it it puts everyone a little bit as an equal also um and yeah you're not the only one struggling there's also you being helpful which yeah makes a big uh big difference all right you get to meet the local people as well i think there's sometimes the risk of staying in this expat bubble of like you're learning with other people that are learning which is great but you're not actually integrating into the community as much absolutely so i would advise doing that as soon as possible yeah

• Speaker #0

  definitely for sure that community piece of understanding a bit more of the local uses and habits and also just getting great advice from them on how to navigate

• Speaker #1

  simple things like admin or or other is definitely going to be a life changer on your day to day yeah exactly it's such a wealth of resources that I think is completely untapped in lots of situations when you stay like in the touristy areas or you stay with maybe people that you traveled with that the local knowledge can be invaluable yeah and do you see a little bit of difference between

• Speaker #0

  the business professionals and the adults that are trying to learn a language but not necessarily for professional use maybe they're they're the training partner and they're not trying to work in that language but they're trying to live in that language is the approach different

• Speaker #1

  not different or it's just a question of vocabulary yeah the context and the vocabulary is different obviously you're not going to need to describe data sets or talk about the economy in the supermarket but i think contrary to popular belief is that the the informal and the conversational can be more challenging than the professional language because i think the social language is a lot faster traditionally right it's a lot more humor um people are using slang it's more like casual and colloquial whereas in a business setting you're probably not the only person that's not the native um there so people tend to speak slower i've noticed and they tend to be more understanding use kind of um vocabulary that's not basic but it's available to more people whereas if you go to a pub or a bar people are not making that effort that it's just like not articulating either exactly

• Speaker #0

  so it can be a little bit more challenging um to pick up those conversational pieces yeah i think that's where the community like meeting the locals is going to interesting and important because I'm pretty sure there's a lot of slang that you will never get from a course specifically that it's gonna you can speak the same language but depending on each country it's gonna be very very different and sometimes even in different cities they're gonna have different expressions I have nothing that's so exciting like it's exciting but the regional things you know But the regional thing is a big thing. And I see it just with my grandmother who lives in the south of France. And I had this realization where I'm used to her speaking in that way with specific expressions from her time on top of that. But when one of my American friends was over and she speaks French, she gets most of it. But sometimes it was just impossible for me to explain why my grandmother was saying this because it's like...

• Speaker #1

  her idea of it or a specific thing yeah absolutely um and it can make it difficult i think if you lean into the excitement of you go to a new city and you learn a new word um or a new accent it can make it feel like more of an adventure yeah

• Speaker #0

  takes you to a whole new country so don't you literally All right. Anything else you wanted to add on that piece?

• Speaker #1

  I always kind of coach that we're looking for functional, not fragile language. And what I mean by that is we want language that can be used and we want it to be in a situation where if you make one small mistake, it doesn't cancel out everything that you've said correctly. You know, it's not so fragile that the whole thing is going to come crumbling down. Because it's likely that the person is going to be understanding and they're going to know what you're talking about, even if you didn't get the conjugation correct, for example. So focus on getting the function and the communication aspect rather than everything perfect, which I know is easier said than done. Like as a perfectionist myself, I know that. But if you can overcome that fear, I think that's going to be really valuable.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, just getting yourself understood is the main point. All right. Well, let's move on to your recommendations in Mexico before you leave then. First of all, which city are you in? We didn't even talk about that.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I'm about an hour from Cancun, Playa del Carmen. So yeah, beach and really nice Caribbean sea.

• Speaker #0

  All right. And a lot of digital nomads, you were saying.

• Speaker #1

  Especially since the pandemic, I think a lot of US citizens came here to escape Corona and also the cold weather. So I think that's been a popular destination.

• Speaker #0

  All right. Well, what are your recommendations there in terms of bar or cafe and restaurant?

• Speaker #1

  It's really hard to pick just one, so I'm going to give it to you. If you want some Mexican food, tropical tacos is really good. They have cochinita, which is kind of like pulled pork on tacos, which is traditional. And mezcalitas, which is like mezcal, kind of like tequila. I'd never heard of it before I lived here. So they're really good. There's also a big Argentinian influence here. Lots of people. And so I also discovered media lunas, which are kind of like sweet croissants. And you can get them in lots of different flavors. So. you'll find them everywhere here and they're delicious and because it's so international um there's lots of people and lots of cuisines so there's a place called Francesca's which is really good Italian Celine's which is really good French food um so it depends where you're all went for for the local names I know but I like I can't just give one because they're quite different you know yeah

• Speaker #0

  Okay. And what about your carte blanche?

• Speaker #1

  It's hard. There's lots of cenotes here, which I didn't know, again, what they were before I got here. But they're kind of like small natural lagoons.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And when it's really hot, the water is really nice and refreshing. And there's hundreds and hundreds of them here. So I think this is a nice way to spend an afternoon.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Okay, great. And last, what is your expat song?

• Speaker #1

  I love this question, Pauline. I've never been asked and I think this is a really nice question. It's a hard one,

• Speaker #0

  but it taps back to the emotion I feel every time, which is really interesting. There's always a good story behind a song.

• Speaker #1

  So I was thinking which language to pick. Like I listen to songs in all the languages where I'm going, but I had two for different reasons. Leaving on a Jet Plane by John Denver is an old one. but it makes me think of my dad and this kind of Bittersweet feeling of departures and knowing that change is ahead. And it's sometimes really hard to say goodbye. But I consistently keep doing it. So sorry to my family for that. I'm a Disney girl at heart. So I think my second one would be How Far I'll Go in the Moana soundtrack. She really embodies what it's like to go beyond what's familiar. and breaking that comfort zone, listening to your own voice, even if there are other expectations thrust upon you just to find your own path, which I think as expats is what we're all doing.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, completely. Yeah, that's a very, very relevant song. I mean, both are actually.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Great. Well, thank you so much for sharing your story and all those tips also to learn languages. Everything will be linked in the comments, your profile, your website also. So if you need to get in touch, you'll have the link. And as usual, all the updates will be put on Instagram. And if you enjoyed the episode, do put a rating. It does help the podcast. Thank you.

• Speaker #1

  Thanks, Pauline. Bye.