Why Caring for Aging Parents Will Change You Forever | David Valadez | Men Talking Mindfulness: Mental, Physical, and Emotional Health for Leaders Under Pressure

Description

What does it truly mean to care for aging parents while preserving their dignity, independence, and joy?

This conversation explores the emotional and practical realities of caregiving, from the strain of daily responsibilities to the deep rewards of being present and actively listening. Through personal stories, the speakers highlight the need for open communication about end-of-life planning, the emotional weight of anticipatory grief, and the delicate balance between prolonging life and ensuring its quality. They emphasize shifting expectations, finding joy in shared moments, and cherishing family gatherings as a way to strengthen bonds and create lasting memories—reminding us that, in the end, family connections are what matter most.

Feeling stuck? If you need help getting out of your rut, Will can help - head to willnotfear.com to learn more about his coaching to get you off the hamster wheel.

More from MTM at: https://mentalkingmindfulness.com/

Timestamps:
00:00 - Introduction
02:46 - Navigating the Challenges of Aging Parents
05:58 - Being Present and Actively Listening
08:54 - Shifting Perspectives on Aging
11:32 - Finding Joy in Shared Moments
14:53 - The Emotional Strain of Caregiving
17:45 - Maintaining Dignity and Independence
20:56 - Practical Support for Aging Parents
23:55 - Conversations About End-of-Life Planning
26:39 - The Role of Communication in Caregiving
29:50 - Anticipatory Grief and Emotional Challenges
32:40 - Quality of Life vs. Prolonging Life
35:47 - Lessons Learned from Aging Parents
38:57 - The Value of Family Gatherings
41:49 - Preparing for Our Own Aging
44:52 - Closing Reflections and Takeaways

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Transcription

Speaker #0
Get together with your family. Get together with your friends. If you don't put on the calendar, it's not going to happen. You know, you keep saying, oh yeah, we're going to do that someday. You know, do it tomorrow. Do it next week. Do it next month. Don't put those things off. I mean, that's, that's, that is the spice of life. You know, money doesn't make you happy. It might give you more choices, but really it's just about people and spending time together.
Speaker #1
One day, family is going to be everything to you. Love your sister, love your brother, love your parents, love your cousins. That's one day they're not going to be there. And I think that's what this show is all about. This particular episode is one day, some people that we love very dearly, namely our parents in this particular episode are not going to be here. What can we do to ease that for them and then take care of ourselves at the same time?
Speaker #0
You know, when you're a kid, your parents are your heroes or you think they're impervious to being sad or invincible. And I think a lot of it was shifting my own paradigm of my mother because the person who she was is not who she is now. And so I think changing my own expectations has helped me be more present and be there for her where anymore it's really hard to have a conversation with her because she doesn't dialogue. You have to pull something out of her. And early on, I was always waiting for her to engage or so I've been able to shift again my expectations and my paradigm so I can just either sometimes it's just sitting with her.
Speaker #2
Raw, uncut and unapologetic. Welcome to Men Talking Mindfulness. Caring for aging parents isn't just an idea anymore. It's becoming more of a reality every passing month. My parents are now 79 and 86 years old. I see them growing more fragile, losing a bit of their sharpness, and needing my support more often. Each visit, each phone call brings moments of love, along with reminders of how much has changed. It's both heartbreaking and humbling to help with things that they once did for me. It's a hard subject for anyone in this situation, so we thought it would be helpful to dedicate an episode and bring more life to this deeply human experience. We are joined today by David Valadez, who is part of the Men Talking Mindfulness team, who has his own experience to share. So for anyone walking this path, know that you're not alone. We're in this together, learning, stumbling, and growing through every challenge and every act of care. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the show, gentlemen. It's great to be back. And God, as I read this, I'm like, oh, all this, these kind of feelings are coming up already because this is something that's really starting to hit home more and more. And just a little, I just, we just finished our 79th actual family reunion this weekend. So we're recording this on whatever today, Tuesday the 15th or something like that. Just after like, you know, I was just home like three days ago doing this reunion. So good to be back, gentlemen. John. What's next?
Speaker #1
Hey, Will, David, good to see you guys. Yeah. I mean, as you read that, a lot of emotions bubbled up in me as well, which we'll get into here shortly. And incidentally, we're actually recording this on my parents' 58th anniversary.
Speaker #2
Oh, wow.
Speaker #1
And I reached out to them yesterday. It's a little difficult to reach out to your parents and say, hey, I'm doing an episode on taking care of my elderly parents. and I Don't want to say that I'm taking care of them because I live here in Colorado Springs and my parents live in Ruston, Louisiana. And we'll get into that in a little bit. But there's still an aspect of it that is caring for them and taking care of them in a way. So anyhow, announcements, the same announcements we've had for a while now. We've got our, just check out our website, mentalkingmindfulness.com. It's got all the things, our upcoming episodes. It's got our upcoming... Spartan race that we're going to be doing down in Dallas. And we'd love to have you join us as part of the team there. We've got a few people signed up already and that's in October. Yeah. And then everything else is on site. Check it out. And as we start every show, we're going to do one breath, one breath grounding practice to get ourselves, the three of us here settled. And for you all that are joining us either on video or on audio. So thanks for joining us. And that said. let's get into a comfortable position whatever that might look like for you now we begin with a nice exhale letting everything out emptying emptying bring your navel to your spine and holding empty at the bottom for a moment and then a nice long slow deep breath in feeling all the way to the top and holding full And letting go. All right.
Speaker #2
We didn't get a chance to say hello to David yet. David, hi.
Speaker #1
Yeah, we did. We both said hi. We did. Well,
Speaker #2
you didn't say hi.
Speaker #0
Because of another oven today again. Thank you for having me back.
Speaker #1
Yeah, David has been on our show before also to discuss a somewhat difficult conversation topic. We spoke about divorce last time. It seems that we have David on to speak about difficult topics. We were in person last time. We've gotten together for, I think we were getting together for our first MTM Summit. We had another one this spring here in Colorado Springs. And I actually know it wasn't for our summit. We were doing something else. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Bottom line, this is the second time we've had David on. David is our senior business advisor. Also our junior business advisor.
Speaker #0
And intern.
Speaker #2
And the intern business advisor.
Speaker #1
So anyway, great to have you here with us, David. So you've shared your experiences with helping with your parents. And something that we're going to talk about today is being fully present with your parents, actively listening without judgment or rushing. And that's, man. And that's where I struggle. And that's where I struggle with everyone, unfortunately. As a mindfulness practitioner who's supposed to be preaching and practicing compassion and love, I do, unfortunately, get wrapped up in rushing through things. And that patience and that presence can be the most valuable gift for both ourselves and those that we're caring about. Specifically, today, we're speaking about our elderly parents. Um, what, for you, what have been some of the ways that you have accomplished this, this being present, fully present, actively listening without judgment or rushing with your parents? Uh,
Speaker #2
I've, I've just, I just help them more often. You know, like I do when I'm home, uh, I do like to cook. So I do just a lot of cooking and, you know, my dad is interesting. He likes to always, um, kind of, uh, instruct and. demand or direct authoritatively sometimes like what to do so it just like sometimes i'll i'll just do what he says you know what i mean and not try to combat with them in some ways um so i think just just being there and being with them and just my dad loves to watch baseball so i'm not a i mean i like baseball too but i don't feel like i need to watch a game so i sit and watch a game with him a little bit we talk about sports and you know um my mom uh, you know, just having longer conversations with her, you know, she's slowed down significantly over the last few years from a really botched hip operation. So like just for her to leave the house is like, you know, like five or 10 minutes. So it really slows me down tremendously. Uh, cause I want to rush too. I want to get to the theater. I want to get to dinner. I want to do this. And, and, uh, so I just really enjoy more of all the moments in between and every step that she takes, I'm just right there with her.
Speaker #1
So it's hard. Oh yeah, it is. For sure. Yeah. David?
Speaker #0
I think for me, one thing, my wife's mother actually, she had some early onstage dementia and Alzheimer's, hit her mid-70s, and now she's been at home for the last three years because she does need full care. So once my mother started having some challenges here within the last, I'd say, three years or so, not as progressive. And she's a little older than my wife's mother. But it was interesting because being exposed to my mother-in-law first, it helped me with my own mother a little bit just because I was prepared for it. But I think the biggest challenge for me and the biggest, I guess, benefit of the relationship is early on. I remember making comments to my siblings and my sister in particular, because she's her primary caregiver, but almost saying, I didn't recognize my mom anymore. I don't, you know, oh, she was never like that. She was never, you know, when you're a kid, your parents are your heroes, or you think they're impervious to being sad or invincible. And I think a lot of it was shifting my own paradigm of my mother because the person who she was is not who she is now. And so I think changing my own expectations has helped me be more present and be there for her, where anymore it's really hard to have a conversation with her because she doesn't dialogue. You have to pull something out of her. And early on, I was always waiting for her to engage or, so I've been able to shift again, my expectations and my paradigm. So I can just be there sometimes as just sitting with her and watching a sporting event or even watching the news. She watches the news too much, but that's kind of her thing sometimes. So if, if it's just having a cup of coffee when I'm visiting and, and sitting with her, a lot of it, again, has just been changing my expectations because it's not about me. And that's a hard thing to shift with your parents because you. You're used to them taking care of you and it becomes a little bit of a role reversal for us.
Speaker #1
I've definitely felt all that. And I got to be honest, it's going to be difficult to make it through this conversation without tearing up quite a bit. You know, my parents are their early 80s and still have all their faculties. And I'm definitely blessed in that. But I know, you know, the time is eventually coming. But to deal with this presence piece. I don't know, it must've been six or seven, maybe more years ago than that. I interviewed my parents on a Zoom call and I recorded it. It was like three hours long, man. I asked them all the questions that I've ever wanted to ask them. And then since then, more life has been lived. And this is not a plug for this particular company at all, but this, I don't know if you can see that, but there's a book now it's called... Ian and Glenn. That's my parents' names. And it's dad and mom. And it's put together by this company called StoryWorth. And StoryWorth is they send a question once a week via email to your parents. And I actually sent one to each one of them every week for a year and then compiled it into one book. And you get the responses via email. And man, the things that I learned about my parents, like you were talking, David, it humanized them. In my eyes, my parents are still my heroes. They're still my heroes to this day and probably always will be even after they're gone. But yes, in my eyes, my parents were kind of invincible. And this listening to them, be it through that interview or be it through this book. has really humanized them in a good way. And I think that's helped me to connect with them and know that we're all mortal. If you ever want to read a really powerful book about death in and of itself, it's a book called Being Mortal. Man, that'll change the way that you perceive others' mortality in your own, also in a good way. But yeah, it's definitely a practice being uh present with them because we're all we've all got our own lives i've got young kids now right now i'm a father um and and being able to stay in touch with my parents who are geographically separated from me i have to i have to i'm ashamed to admit this because they're my parents are going to listen to this episode later um i have to put it on my to-do list it pops up every so often hey call mom and dad because otherwise i'll get wrapped up in my own life and unfortunately kind of neglect that connection point. So anyhow,
Speaker #2
onto the next thing, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah. Or move on to the next thing. Right.
Speaker #2
Right. One thing I'll say about listening, I think, um, you know, you mentioned, uh, dementia and we actually had, uh, Dr. Mark Gordon on talking about neurodegenerative diseases and, you know, go back and listen to that episode for really some great information on that. And as far as like listening goes, like my mom is, is really suffering with. like some dementia, like, you know, she's there and she's present and she recognizes me. We have great conversations, but like literally her memory right now is like maybe three minutes, five minutes. It's like, it's really short. Like, you know, there's been times where, you know, we'll move from the house to the car, we'll get in the car. She's like, where we're going? I'm like, we just talked about the shopping list five minutes ago, you know? But so what I've been trying to do when I do talk to her on the phone, uh, is not being like, oh mom I told you this Like, not like, oh, hey, like, yeah, we talked about that yesterday. You know, just trying to, like, not make them feel bad or ashamed in some way that, like, that they, or just even really bring up or even the possibility of the decline. You know, because it doesn't, I just don't want them to feel bad that they're repeating themselves. I just really, that's another way that I'm trying to stay present and try to hold space with them and let them, like, tell the same story again and again and laugh at it, you know, in some ways. It's like, they've done their time like they've done a lot for me i'm like your parents have both of you i'm sure so just like you know let them you know have have these moments with together you know and we're going to be there one day
Speaker #1
you know, ourselves probably in one way or another, there is a, uh, a level of frustration at times. So, um, I'll tell you, I went to Australia and I've talked about this a little bit on the show before I went to Australia a couple of months back with my parents and my eldest daughter. And, you know, one of the reasons I was going was to help my parents. And, uh, and unfortunately I lost my temper a few times with them. Um, which when I took a step back, I actually sat through, um, uh, a therapy session about this very thing is I was really upset with myself about that because, you know, eventually we're all going to lose our parents. And, uh, and I turned what should have been an extremely special time with them into a time of, of, uh, self-centeredness. Um, and, and And then I felt an anticipatory grief. Okay, like my parents are still here with us, here as far as on the planet. Yes, geographically they're separated, but at one time or another down the road, they're not going to be. And that anticipatory grief is what my therapist told me that I was struggling with. That's going to be there for all of us. And then it's eventually going to turn into real grief. But. That doesn't mean we have to turn the moment right now into a grieving moment. We can enjoy the here and now. At the same time, we've got to give our parents the dignity and the respect. I mean, they've earned the respect they've raised us, right? We got to respect them. And that's one thing I was not doing. So one thing this show, just this very episode, is I think going to help to drive home to me is... Respect your elders, damn it. Right. I love my parents' death and I need to be better about one, staying in contact with them and then two, respecting who they are, what they've done for us, sacrifices, efforts, and then take a step back and not get frustrated because guess what? The aging is a part of everybody's life. I'm sure my kids are going to get frustrated with me down the road. Hell, they're already getting frustrated with me. So, yeah. just a matter of time.
Speaker #2
So it's so nice to just, I don't just to be there. I think it's really, I mean, the phone calls and the FaceTimes and stuff are good, but like nothing, you know, could take the place of actually physically being there, you know? And it's really, you know, I feel that anticipatory grief in some ways, but also it's a grief almost to, I like collectively, uh, cause every time I go home, you know, they're immediately. And as I'm like getting closer to leaving, they're like, when are you coming back? And I've never heard so much urgency in that question. Oh. You know, in some ways it's like, you know, it's almost like, I'm glad that my little brother is home with them now, thankfully, so it makes things a little bit easier for all of us. I have another brother that lives about an hour away. I'm in New York about three hours away from them. More like five hours, four hours to kind of actually get back there to see them. But, yeah, it's just, oh, God. I mean, like, I wrote down in my notes, I'm like, comic relief, so find a moment. you know to have like you know laugh a little bit because this gets it just gets so heavy and i don't know what that's going to look like down in during this podcast but i'm just like oh wow maybe that's me also wanting to run from it or some ways but yeah david yeah and just one thing to to chime in too for um the
Speaker #0
people on the call that aren't on the call not the call the show but you know the your you know your men talking mindfulness out there we are talking about our parents. In a positive way. I mean, I lost my dad at 16. He hasn't been around for a long time, you know, but my mom, she went through a lot of shit to get two kids still in school through and, and whatnot. But there's a lot of people too, that don't have good relationships with their parents. And, you know, so we, I wanted to make sure and talk just that, you know, we're not looking at this with rose colored glasses and everything's all peachy. I mean, one of my wife's good friends. Her mother had Alzheimer's. She had to take care of her and she did not have a great relationship. And really, she ended up being her primary caregiver when she probably had the worst relationship of all the siblings. So above and beyond people who have good relationships with their aging parents and struggling to deal with them, the people who have bad relationships and then are stuck in that place, it's even harder for them. So, you know, I think we want to talk about all the challenges with that. but Ultimately, the whole men talking mindfulness angle too is to take care of yourself and we'll get to that. But just, you know, I want to make sure we acknowledge that there's people out there struggling even beyond us. with those challenges, with those relationship challenges with their parents.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I mean, great point, David. So thank you for that. And I will say that, you know, one of our listeners, regular listeners, and he's also gone through our retreats. He's become friends with us. He had his father living at home with him. He has since passed away. His father did, but he had his father living at home with him and they did not have a good relationship. As a matter of fact, they struggled and they struggled before he was living at home with them. And then when he did come and live with them, it was that much more difficult. So, you know, I try to empathize with that situation for sure. But then, yes, taking care of yourself, whether you're a primary caretaker for, you know, your parents, your spouse, your children. When you become a caretaker for others, whether it's because that's just the position you're in or whether there's a sickness or aging, one of the first things to drop as far as on that priority list is yourself. And I felt that as a dad. I felt that as a husband in the past. And I'm sure at some point or another, we've all felt that or will feel that. So yeah, great point. So thank for that, David. All right, so let's talk about... maintaining dignity and independence for our parents. As they age, they don't want to put a burden on us. They want to be able to make their own choices whenever possible. What can we do to support them in this? I think I mentioned before, I reached out to my parents to find out with. they would like to hear on this show because they are going to listen. And my parents, they said, you know, having pets, like having a pet to play with or take care of, right? It's an empty nest, right? I mean, it's been an empty nest for 30 plus years at our house. So they've had pets, they've had hobbies. My parents both cycle still to this day quite a bit. My mom and dad. They both get out in the garden. My mom gardens, my dad fixes up all the little trinkets in the garden. My mom knits. So having some type of hobby is very important for them. Um, for you guys, what have you seen are some of the best ways that you can kind of support this, uh, this dignity and this independence? David, I'll start with you.
Speaker #0
Uh, I mean, it's hard because, you know, my mom now is 85 and, um,
Speaker #1
we.
Speaker #0
A couple of years ago, she decided that she wanted to sell her home and go into an independent living community. And so we found her a place where they did have independent living and she could progress. If she needed increased care down the road, she could progress through their facility, their care facility. And, you know, it was a very, at the time, it seemed like a very open-eyed, very conscious decision. Unfortunately, that only lasted about six months. And then she didn't want to stay there. and we had to re... reshuffle a lot of things readjust it was a very trying time it created a lot of stripe within the family because we you know the siblings didn't all agree necessarily on what was the what was next and um i think now after these last few events um we still anymore we we we all i make sure we make sure we're all uh in agreement with whatever decision is going to be made but We do push back a little bit more. I mean, we want to know what she wants, what her mother wants. My sister is her primary caregiver, so she gets an extra vote in the whole thing. But we all sit down with her. And if we don't feel like she's making the right decision, we don't necessarily tell her she's wrong, but we'll present why. And we just tell her, well, this is what we collectively think needs to be done. Because it's hard to tell her, number one, that she's wrong. because that's not something you want to do with, with, you know, our aging parents at that place. But then you also just, we want to make sure the families align because then those decisions hold more weight. So they're not just, you know, oh, well, one person believes this because just like any human, they'll try to recruit, they'll talk to one sibling, you know, and then the other child, the other child and get, try to get somebody on their side or whatever. And I think, yeah, it is a lot of allies. And so it's, we do, we do listen, but we push back a little more just because her condition that has progressed a little bit. I mean, she can still fully function, take care of herself, do all the, uh, you know, the, the basic care needs and all that stuff. But as far as the big picture of, you know, what is the right decision, where should she live, how much should, you know, rent or things like that cost collectively, we may make those decisions.
Speaker #2
Yeah.
Speaker #1
What about you, Will?
Speaker #2
Uh, my parents are, you know, they're pretty independent still. Like my dad, even 86 gets to the gym like a few times a week, which is great. They're still driving. You know, there's my dad, like, I'm really impressed how, what a good shape my dad is. He still has his, his mind as well, which is good. And I don't know, he's been taking supplements like his whole life. So maybe that has a lot to do with it. And he just, he seems to always add one more when I get by the one next time I'm home. So I mean, good for him. Kudos to him. He's not any pharmaceuticals at all. which is great. So I mean, you know, they, I mean, how do I support them? I just let them keep doing what they're doing. You know, and one thing I get, that I make sure I do, it's like, I don't want to, I can just so quickly and easily do so many things, whether it's like making a bed or making a meal or running to the store or doing something. And I make sure like I help them to realize like, hey, well you can do this too. You know what I mean? Like, I think you should take your energy, your time, you know, like, and give yourself that eventual reward of like actually completing something instead of letting it be done for you. So as long as they're still capable, uh, um, I think you should just let them do things that they have normally always done. Um, so I think that that's one way to share that independence with them.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I think, um, you know, as a, as a son, as a daughter wanting to Give. back to our parents who gave us so much. There's probably a desire to step in as often as you want or as often as you can. But I think there's much like being a parent, watching your kids struggle to do X, Y, or Z. You're like, oh, well, let me just step in and do it for you. Well, what's that doing for the kid? It's taking away a sense of independence. It's taking away a sense of pride. It's almost taking away a little bit of their dignity. Well, if we step in whenever we want to, as a son or a daughter, as a child for our parents, then that's probably doing the same thing, taking away a sense of their dignity and independence. Don't step in all the time, but step in when they truly need it. Maybe ask them, maybe you truly, hey, mom and dad, I want to be as helpful as I can without stepping on your toes. Where can I help? So let's talk about that very thing, like the practical support. What are some things that we can do to help with daily tasks. You know, you mentioned, Will, that your dad's still driving. My parents are both still driving. You know, maybe if they're not, maybe you can offer some type of transportation. You can help them manage their medications. You know, really as a now a primary caretaker, potentially, like I don't live at home, but I've got three of my sisters who live in my parents' hometown. There's a good chance that they're going to be helping a lot with that. So they've got to stay informed about the medical needs, right? whatever those might be, whether it's visits or actual medicine, the legal documents, insurance. I talked to my mom or both my parents, again, via text for the show again. And I said, you know, what are some things that you would recommend that we could help you with? And she didn't necessarily come up with things that we could help with, but things that she said that they had done as a couple. And she said that they eat well. She said they skip red meat. So my parents are pescatarians. I'm personally not a big fan of skipping red meat. I like my red meat, but staying active, right? And that doesn't necessarily mean getting out on your bikes every day like my parents do, but they also go out and walk the dog. And then my mom said, and a little red wine every day doesn't hurt either.
Speaker #2
There you go.
Speaker #1
I love that. And, you know, I think there is. medical support for that, but I think also just relaxing and being like, you know what? Yeah. By God, I'm, I'm 80 X, Y X years old. I can have my glass of wine.
Speaker #2
My dad, my dad has this three o'clock Manhattan.
Speaker #1
There you go. There you go. Every day. Two, two, two, two data points.
Speaker #2
Yeah. Lots of supplements and a three o'clock Manhattan with like, with the next, with the little cherry juice in it, you know, that man, Manicino cherries or whatever juices in it.
Speaker #1
Uh, yeah, I just,
Speaker #2
but yeah, go for it.
Speaker #1
Yeah. What's the practical support, uh, that you guys feel that you can offer and what's the best way to go about doing that?
Speaker #2
You know, we just had, uh, um, you know, I, I make sure they're fed, you know, or like at least every time I'm going home, I'm buying groceries and definitely more pro they eat a lot of shit food. And I'm like, Oh my God. So I try to cook for them. I try to, you know, or just get a roasted chicken for them or something like that. Uh, one thing that we did last time I was home and I got, it's funny just before the show started. This guy texted me. Um, you know, we're going to get like, uh, we have, you know, we have a, you know, two story house. So we're going to, they're going to need like a little chairlift. for the up and down the stairs. So I coordinated a guy that came out and did an assessment and stuff like that. So we're probably going to get one of those installed as well. So just like supporting them in that way, I think has been very helpful. I've been trying to get or trying any doctor's appointments and stuff like that with them, but they're, you know, I just.
Speaker #0
they were kind of unwilling to relinquish any kind of control or want any kind of help in those areas so i'm just like you know i'll keep asking questions and and offering support if they want it but that seems to be like a no-no for them right now which is which is tough because also one thing i see with my parents and that you know and that i guess uh what boomer generation is is uh they just blindly trust the doctors you know and uh i just don't always that if that's the best course of action or at least like go look for in a second opinion. My parents are still locked in with, you know, the same doctor that they've had for 40 years. And, and I'm like, yeah, I don't know if he's doing the best for you and they don't want to hear any of that. So it's like probably,
Speaker #1
you know, 40 years now they're 80 something. So he's probably 80 something as well.
Speaker #0
He's probably 75. And now he's like, he's 350 pounds. I'm like, oh, he doesn't look like a healthy doctor, you know, mom and dad. So. anyway like i just i just offer support when i can you know lots of phone calls i'm lucky i have two brothers that live much closer one's in the house and one's uh close by um and um yeah it's just it's it just it just god it's a slow thing too it's like you know that's why one of the reasons i keep you know i'm always calling them probably like a couple times a week just to see what their needs are, you know what I mean? And then like, or how I can help them or just to talk to them in some way, you know? And then communicate that to my other siblings if I need to. But it's funny, I have this, hopefully I'll get these chairlifts in my parents' house within the next like week and a half or something like that, which would be very helpful for them. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it is what it is, you know? It is what it is. Just do, you know, I look at it as like, they've done so much for me, you know? I mean, so much, so much, so much for me. And I don't, and it's funny, like, there was a time when we had a reunion this weekend and it was a pretty warm day, humid day. And my mom was feeling a little flushed and a little, you know, just warm. And she wanted to go sit in the air conditioning in the car. And it was just, it was strange. I mean, cause like I grew up, this reunion has been part of my whole life. And, you know, all my cousins are there who have been part of me my whole life. So I'm used to, like, going on a plane, going in the water, horseshoes, whatever, just, you know, having fun, eating, drinking, having a great time. And I just, like, hung out with my mom for 25 minutes, you know, just standing outside the car, letting her be all good. And it was just, like, I felt like that I didn't want or need to be anywhere else. I was like, and I just wanted to get upset. I just wanted to just fucking hang out with my mom, you know, because she's my mom. And, like, I didn't, it didn't, nothing else mattered. Nothing else mattered. just
Speaker #1
taking care of her and being with her and it was it just it just i'm not going to be able to do that someday so it was just really nice to be part of her be with her and even at that moment you know so yeah it's tough it's really tough there are no first tears of the episode for me there it is man i'm sure for those yeah the last all right right yeah just to tell uh rather rather dovetail on what you just said like that trip to australia again i went with my eldest daughter as well. And we had met my parents at... Dallas-Fort Worth airport when we went out to Australia and now flip it when we're coming back from Australia, we were parting from our parents at DFW. And we made it through customs and all the other things and then get through security on the other side. And now my daughter and I are going one way and my parents are going the other. Hug them, say goodbye. And then my daughter, after we walk away a little bit, and now my parents are going to listen to this and it probably will upset them. But my daughter, she said, how do we know we're going to see Nani and Gramps again? That's what Nani is. My mom, Gramps is clearly my dad. And my answer was, we don't. We never know that.
Speaker #0
And that goes for any situation.
Speaker #1
It goes for any situation with anyone.
Speaker #0
Anyone, exactly.
Speaker #1
Yeah. But man, when she asked that in that moment, because I was already upset, you know, saying bye to my parents after such a great time. Um, but to ask, uh, you know, how do we know not when we're going to see them? How do we know if we're going to see them again? I was like, oh, wow. Heavy questions from little ones. So anyway, and, but sometimes those, those questions really make you think, um, and, and make you appreciate, uh, life, not just, not just your parents, but just life in general. Um, so sorry, uh, David. So what about, what about you, man? Any, any stories to share on kind of the, the. of practical support? I mean, you've already shared some.
Speaker #2
I did, but that was a really practical support. It's interesting because this question makes me sad because I live in the Seattle area in Washington state. My mom's down in Texas in the San Antonio area. So I'm far away. I'm not close to my mother. My sister lives literally right next door to her. Which I'm so thankful for. My sister is a, she is a saint. I mean, everything she does for my mother, she drives her everywhere, takes her to all her appointments. As you said, she keeps track of her medications. She, you know, makes sure she eats. She is literally, I mean, she's the powerhouse that does things that, I mean, I can't even imagine. You know, every time I go down there, I can see the stress on my sister because it's a lot. She's taken on a lot and she wants to take it on because you know, it's really important to her. She's like, why would I, why would I have somebody take care of my mother when I can do it? You know, but she also has a, you know, a full-time job and she still has one of her son is in college, you know? So she still has a lot of other things going on. And this is a hard question for me because I'm far away. And I always, I feel so helpless so many times. It's like, I'll be talking to my sister and I can either hear stress or I can hear her trying to figure out, okay, I've got eight things to do today. including getting mom to an appointment. It's like, man, I wish I was down the road where I could go help and I can't. And, you know, based on my prior response about where she's living and this, that, the other, I mean, I tell my sister all the time, I can read contracts. I can read rental agreements. I can provide some financial support. Beyond that, I'm so far away. I can't do anything daily to help. And so I really try to not only help. by calling, checking on my mom, but I also, you know, make sure my sister's okay. And it's like, what else can I do? What can I do for you? Because she really does provide the kind of support you're talking about, you know, and that's, it frustrates my mother because her commentary as of late is, you know, I'm being treated like a baby. Oh, I'm not a kid. You know, and that's really hard because you don't want them to feel that way when they're having memory issues are they I can't remember if I took my prescription or not, right? But my sister has her into a regimen where she, you know, okay, you take your pill, you write it down. She's got a little system, a little notepad. And, you know, unfortunately, if she's not doing that, we don't know if she's taking her medications regularly or if she's eating. To Will's point, I go down there and visit and I open her pantry and I'm looking at it going, man, we never had this stuff even in the house when we were kids. And why is she eating these foods that aren't really? nutritious or as healthy as they could be but they're just simple you know they when they don't have family to cook for anymore they don't really make these big elaborate meals it's more i think efficiency and they don't want to waste either they don't want to make something and then throw half of it away so it's very interesting watching this dynamic and it yeah it becomes difficult to not so much know where you can help but to adjust your help to their needs so it's okay the let's figure out little meals let's figure out like my sister how to make sure she's taking her you know her medications and if she's eating and so she checks in on her regular she drives her everywhere she hasn't been she hasn't been driving for about i don't know three years now and uh you know she's still very very self-capable you know washes her own laundry washed her own dishes takes care of herself no problems with any of that stuff but it's just remembering and so it's it's hard to really adjust to that and like i said for me it's difficult when You know, both of you are getting emotional. It makes me emotional because I wish I could do more. And it's because of physical distance and short of me packing up and moving down there, I can't really do much. And, you know, getting my mom to move anywhere. She's 85. She's not going anywhere. She likes where she is and she's not, yeah, she's not going to come live with any of the other siblings because now my sister has become her, her security blanket, her security blanket, you know, her, her crutch.
Speaker #1
and yeah David so What I found interesting is, you know, you're talking about your sisters. I just talked about, or your sister that's right next door to your mom. I've talked about my three sisters who live in my hometown. They're there to help. Isn't it something, there's something that is said that, you know, the daughters are who are going to end up taking care of you, right? They talk about people with sons, the sons, they're going to go out and do their own thing. But the people with the parents with daughters, their daughters are going to be there to care for you. here it is playing out. So I wanted to just mention like for men, what is it that kind of, uh, I don't know, plays out in that we end up in the majority of the cases being the ones that are away from our family. Now I will say that my, my wife, she herself is away from her, her mom and her dad. Um, and her brother is living there. Uh, so I guess it's a flipped flip scenario, but, um, have you guys seen that? Uh, what are your thoughts on that? Well,
Speaker #2
I think one thing just to chime in real quick regarding my, my mother, because with, with age comes incontinence issues, right? And that's a big one for my mother. She's a very proud woman. And I've, I've gone down there and stayed a couple of times to. allow my sister to go away for the weekend with her family or whatever. And, you know, that's a difficult thing for my mom because that level of trust she has in my sister and confidence. And that's, you know, that's some, she'd be mortified if I had to help her with some situation. So that's, I think that's part of it, you know, and, and I'm not sure if it probably happens with older gentlemen as well, too. They don't maybe want necessarily their daughter, Maybe they prefer their son. So I think there's a little bit of. of that aspect to it, at least in my case, you know, I can't speak for everybody, but I know that's been a challenge where, Hey, let me help you. It's like, uh, no thanks. You know, don't, don't even want you coming into my room right now. I'm in the bathroom or whatever it is. So I know that's part of it.
Speaker #1
Yeah. And then we'll, I mean, you've got two brothers, so it's all boys. So what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker #0
We, we all, we, we share the responsibility pretty well, uh, at this point. Um, you know, there still is that like male and female kind of i i don't know i i don't we'll see what happens as far as the continents goes like down the road uh they seem to be pretty good right now i mean that's just another level of care another level of intimacy another or not you know what i mean like of uh which is just like dignity exactly it's like i mean it just it's i'm and really just in the middle of it like right right right right right now and um um uh but i'm glad to have each other um and um We're still managing pretty well on my end, you know, with my parents where they are. Yeah.
Speaker #1
So, all right. Well, so let's take it to the, to the siblings, right? So my sisters are down in Louisiana. Will, you've got a brother living there. David, you've got a sister living there with your folks. You know, how can we, as those who might be geographically separated, how can we contribute to those who are right there with them? You know, involving our siblings, involving ourselves with our siblings and their caretaking of our parents. How can we involve other relatives, maybe local support? What can we do there?
Speaker #0
Well, I've been, you know, it's actually as our parents have gotten older, it's like, you know, my brothers and I seem to be getting a little closer because we're really, you know, it's just like something about rallying around like, you know, our parents who have taken care of us. Now we're taking care of them. Um, and I think like just supporting in the sense of like, uh, providing information or making phone calls, you know, or maybe taking some of the time off of their plate, you know, do it all, you know, cause they might drive them to the appointment and take them to the appointment, but I can set it up, you know, or something like that is, is, is, is kind of what I'm seeing coming up more and more. Um, but, um, yeah, I mean, I think the communication with, with, you know, with your siblings, with the family has been really important and we, I'm very lucky as well. you know the where i grew up um there we still have like i don't know 50 family members in the in the neighborhood you know what i mean like a lot i mean there's a lot of a lot of schneider blood where i'm from and uh and and and like all and you know and and my mom's sister isn't far away like half an hour away um you know which are very close and we're always in communication and um and it's just interesting we just how or it's interesting how we just continually support each other more and more, more and more. I just find like it's through that. It's just through love and through compassion and, and, uh, that we just find a way to make it all happen. And, and, you know, it's a sad, it's sad to see them decline, but it's also, uh, it's, it's, it's also very, um, feels good to the heart, uh, to see how we're communicating now and really care for them in such a deep way.
Speaker #1
Interesting. Interesting. Uh, kind of. Side effect, I guess, if you will, is as you start getting closer to your siblings, again, even if you are geographically separated, potentially, like David, you mentioned there might be challenges with your siblings as well about, hey, the different opinion on what is needed for your parents. So, yeah, I guess an interesting side effect either way. Yeah,
Speaker #2
I would agree with Will that, you know, the differing opinions was. initially going to this facility that I had mentioned. But since then, I agree with Will. So I also have a brother who's in Houston. He's only, what, three hours away from my sister. But again, she's primary caregiver. We dialogue a lot more now. I feel like we are getting closer. You know, when your kids are close with your siblings and then you go off and you have your own lives and everybody raises their kids different and you just realize how different are from siblings. You know, and then you have to like rebuild relationships as adults. You have to like, you know, come back together and go, oh, okay, let's, let's try to be friends again. You know, it's really different, but yeah, I've noticed us getting closer in the last couple of years and, and there's a lot more dialogue. And I think, you know, my brother and I are both extremely. conscious of what my sister's doing. And, you know, she takes that from my mom. She's very proud and wants to be that person. And, and it's, it's hard to step in and say, well, let me do something now, or let me take over. I think we're getting better at saying, Hey, you need to go on vacation. One of us is going to be there. If I need to fly down there and be there for the long weekend, or if it needs to be a week, give me some time. I'll figure it out. My brother and his wife has stayed with my mom so it's like trying to allow my sister some of that space. And I think the other thing, which both of you have contributed, contributed to my life of being more open and, uh, you know, being more mindful, I'm trying to infect my siblings with that. And, and because I just will talk about anything with them, which I didn't used to do 10 years ago. I, I didn't talk to anybody about anything. I. I was told a lot of times I held my cards close to my chest, but now it's like, I don't want people to go through things I've gone through or to suffer or to feel like you're alone. So I talk to my siblings a lot about a lot of things and now they're finally starting to open up themselves. And I think that's one big positive I've seen in my sister is she's finally asking for help. And she's finally saying, Hey, I need this, or I need to get away for a weekend or, you know, Hey, I I like to joke with her. Do you need some gas money? It's like. you know here she deserves it you know it's like hey here's a here's a little christmas bonus or something i can't be there go go pamper yourself go buy yourself something nice from me because i don't know what else to do you know so it's like you try to do what you can but i i agree with will that it does your four come together because it takes it takes a village just like with young kids you need help and support and you can't you can't do it alone and the primary caregiver is usually the one who takes the brunt of the parental dissatisfaction or whoever, whether it's a husband and spouse, whoever's taking care of that person who's struggling, you know, they, they're the ones that really get dumped on. So we have to look out for those, those individuals. We have to look out for those people.
Speaker #1
What I found interesting, what you just said is that, you know, we're all siblings, but we have different ways of raising our kids, right? You don't really realize how different you are until or you see different parenting ways. And man, I was a good parent until I became one. I remember telling my sister how she was doing such a bad job of parenting and I didn't even have kids yet. I have this shirt that says, I was a good parent too before I had kids or something to that effect. And man, the flip side of that though, so we've all got our own kids. We've got our own personalities, but we've got our own kids. I've got my kids. My sisters have their kids. But we all have this one set of parents. And so we're all going to have differing opinions for what we're doing with these two people, but perhaps fewer, perhaps one. But it's not different kids. It's not different parents. It's the same parents. So those different opinions on how we should be taking care of them definitely comes into play. And yes, we may get closer, but we have to be communicating. Like you said, David, you have to be talking more often. Will, you said the same thing. I think you have to open up the lines of communication so that you're doing what's best for your parents and you're doing what they would want, right? Not what you would want. Although there are going to be times when what you want is probably better for them than what they want. like you've already talked about david as well all right well let's let's talk to uh the the second act here well so we've started dividing our episode into three acts so let's go into the you know the obstacle and the villains here i mean we're already feeling it already oh yeah the emotional strain of this like the you know the
Speaker #0
the guilt the frustration the the new you know level of emotional intelligence that's kind of needed as you go down this path you know it's like i think I think is also part of this as well. you know, and also witnessing our parents in decline. I mean, it could also trigger some like grief or anxiety, you know, about the future. You talk about anticipatory grief earlier. So like, why don't we like talk on an individual or as an individual basis of like what, what the feelings are so far as we kind of go down this path with them.
Speaker #1
I mentioned this before, right? I went to Australia to help with my parents. and yeah there was a great there was a great level of sadness in the very fact that I have to be there. I mean, I want to be there, but the very fact that I had to be there, they didn't ask for it. I want to be abundantly clear that my parents are still... very proud and they're amazing people. They didn't ask for it. My siblings and I talked, hey, maybe they need some help. And my brother lives in Australia, so he was going to be there, but not for the whole trip. So I went to Sydney and to Brisbane with them. Anyhow, the fact that I had to be there was a sadness, right? Like David already mentioned, you've kind of seen your parents as these invincible people, and now here they are. needing your help to go up and downstairs or needing your help to put a bag up in the overhead in the airplane, these kinds of things, which ironically, in the airport, I'm the one who fucked that up. I left my bag in security. Meanwhile, my parents were, they were still on top of things and they didn't forget anything. I'm the one who left it. But yeah, there's a sadness there. There's a guilt in that, hey, did I do enough growing up? to help my parents? Was I a pain? Was I a burden to them? And then the flip side of that, there's a frustration like, hey, mom and dad, I know you as the mom and dad that I grew up with. Why can't you do this? Why aren't you understanding what I'm saying? Why aren't you understanding what I'm doing? Why aren't you understanding why I'm doing X, Y, or Z? Which, you know, that frustration leads to more guilt. You're like, why the f**k? fuck am I getting frustrated with my parents who are just being human? They're aging. And here I am, you know, I'm not young, but I'm not old. And I still have my strength. I still have my mental capacities. And they do too, to some extent, but I'm getting frustrated with them. So there's this, it's this weird cycle, like frustration, sadness, anger, guilt, and it's just like constant. That's one of the, or I guess several of the emotional challenges that I've had in the very microscopic experience I've had of caring for my parents. Again, I'm geographically separated from them. So the one experience that I had to take care of them thus far was a trip to Australia that was 12 days. So I can only imagine those who are there as full-time primary caretakers, caregivers, the emotional challenges that they face there.
Speaker #0
yeah that's my experience with that i've really seen my dad in a new way in a different way and understand them really in in a different way and i think like me uh trying to slow the pace of my life down trying to you know be more mindful and and be more present and be more patient like i'm uh um i've realized along like probably like in the last 15 years like especially my dad it's like you know this is who he is he's done the best he could with where he came from and his father and his his coaching his uncles and stuff like that um and uh i've just really grown in greater appreciation for my dad you know for who he is and what he does and what he's done for me and you know you know my dad's he he i i don't i don't know what it is he's not very you know uh i wouldn't say he's very high eq you know what i mean he's he he gets easily frustrated and kind of throws tantrum, it seems like, all the time. which is just like daunting to me, you know, and watching your father do that. But like, but he's there and he's, he's, and he cares and he, and he, and he really tries to help in the way that he can help or the way that he wants to help. And it's been, it's just, it's just, you know, it's my dad. I mean, it's my dad and the older he's getting and. As the years go by and the years come to an end, I'm just working with a greater sense of patience and acceptance and just trying to, you know, again, watch the ballgames with them or, you know, help them in some way. We're always the one when I'm home, like, running to the store, running to, you know, for whatever, and I just go on trips with them, you know, whatever it is. And my little brother is going to—my dad used to golf forever. Now he can't golf anymore because his back's like a real mess. And he's going to go out. a couple times a week and just do nine holes and let my dad drive the cart and my brother go hit some golf balls you know what i mean so it's like uh it's and my mom and my mom and i my mom hasn't my mom and i have been always very close uh my relationship to her has become one of more patience and understanding and and and even you know and more kindness if you will even even though they can really frustrate the fuck out of me. For real, oh my god. but that's just me i think it's like that's one thing i think it's important for people to realize or to to hopefully as you maybe in the middle of it now or maybe you're 10 years away uh is just like uh meet them where they're at like express more patience uh with them uh listen more than you speak and Yeah, it's just, it's an interesting slope that we're on. And it's very slow and it's very gradual for me. And, you know, I'm just trying to spend as much, the quality time, I think, is what it is. Like, how can you spend more quality time with them and based on where they are, what their needs are, and what they're able to do, whether that's physically or cognitively.
Speaker #2
I think the best way I can, like, explain it. It's almost like the stages of grief. It's like you're pissed off and then you're in denial. And I remember initially when I started seeing this in my mother, as I mentioned earlier in the conversation, about almost not recognizing her. My dad, again, my dad died. I was 16. My sister was 13. And for me, it's like my mom's from Spain. She's still, you know, she understands English. like nobody's business, but she doesn't get very well. You know, she never got to that point, but to see someone, you know, be left with two kids in school and just still make it happen and, and not have either of us go off the deep end. I, you know, I thought she was capable of anything. You know, we, we used to, she, she, we traveled back to Spain when my cousin got married in like 1990 and got through all these airports and Now, my mom, I can't even get her to travel with me. It's like, I will take you. I will escort you. And again, I remember thinking, you know, who are you? It's like, when did you become chicken little? And for me to even like think that and verbalize that to my sister. Now I feel like an asshole. Like, why am I, why am I saying not nice things about my mother? I love my mother. She's an amazing woman. She's a little old lady now. You know, she's not this woman. who I remember when I was a teenager and I was an asshole. I was went off the deep end. I was angry young man. My dad died. Didn't we had a terrible relationship, which I didn't get resolved. And I was not great to your point, John. I was like, man, I've wronged her, you know, more times than she's ever going to wrong me, no matter what she does in her elderly stage. You know, it's like, so you start thinking about those things and, you know, you can't go change any of it, but you try to do better now. And I think one thing that Will was talking about is you have to be more present and more patient. And I think a big lesson for my wife and I, again, because her mother is a lot more advanced, it's made us open our eyes to our life and where we are in our life. You know, we're both in our mid to early 50s. We're starting to plan for this because we don't want our kids to have to worry or struggle and not so much just planning, but also having open conversations with them. Like, hey, look, this could happen. This may not happen. Here's what we want. Here's what we're planning for. Here's because so many of these conversations don't happen till later. And again, I remember getting frustrated with my mom. You don't have a will. You don't have this. You need a power of attorney. What is your death directive? What is your? You know, how do you want to be buried? I remember when she told me she wanted to be cremated, it freaked me out. I'm like, what, what, what? You know, and, and I was like, well, wait a minute, that's her body, not mine. And so I remember asking my siblings, do you guys know this? Do you? And so, yeah, I have these regrets of getting frustrated with her or getting angry or having all these strong emotions to what she wants or how she's living her life. And now I've gotten to a place where. I can just sit there and have a cup of coffee with her. And if she asks me two times over how my son's doing or how the kids are doing, it's fine. I'm just going to answer her and enjoy that time because it's.
Speaker #0
you know, it's fleeting. You know, she's 85 and hopefully she has another five or 10 more years, but you never know. And it's like, would I rather have her be gone tomorrow or have her ask me 10 more times about my kids and have that cup of coffee a hundred percent? Because, you know, losing my dad at 16, I wish I had that one more time to have a conversation with him. I don't want to have that same feeling with my mom. And so I've been so much more present with her and and patient and Yeah, it's hard to push those feelings away because we get stuck in our own. Again, it's changing our paradigm. It's what we think our parents, who they are, what they want, what they should do. And you have to get to that place to be open, to listen to them, make good decisions, but just to be able to be present and just tell them you love them. I call my mom once a week because she doesn't need me to call her every day. I call her once a week. We have a nice conversation. Sometimes it's... 15 minutes, sometimes it's five minutes, but she always thanks me so much for calling her, you know, at the end of the phone call. And that's all she just wants to feel loved. Yeah.
Speaker #1
And that's a, you know, another thing my parents said is, is stay in touch. Um, you know, they've got, they've got the three sisters that live at home, but they've got myself who lives in Colorado. They live in Louisiana. And then my younger brother who lives in Brisbane, um, and, and he's really good at staying in touch, but yeah, you know, that means a lot to parents. And I can see that. As a father now, as a parent myself, I think about, okay, well, eventually my kids are going to move away. And are they going to make a point to stay in touch with me? Which brings me to my next point is like, okay, we're talking about our elderly parents. What about when we are the elderly parents? And that doesn't necessarily mean 30 years down the road. It could mean right now, right? Like I, uh, my, uh. Let's see. Paternal grandfather died very young. I want to say like 56 years old. So not old at all, especially in today's day and age. But I could drop dead walking down the street. Ideally, I won't, but I could. And then what am I doing for my parents? Or sorry, not my parents, my children. What am I doing to ensure that they are taken care of? Right? You talked about, David, you talked about a will. My mom, what did she say? She said, Every parent should have a will. Don't leave this earth without one. If you do, you ought to be ashamed. And I thought, I was like, right on, mom, right on. And then in the military, as a 19-year-old, I had to write a will, my own will as a 19-year-old, which was very grounding. You're like, oh, what am I doing? And what am I willing? I'm willing, what, my one pair of tennis shoes or something? There's not a whole lot. for me to leave in my will. But I've had a will since I was 19 years old, but how many of us do not? How many of us think that we're invincible? And then for those of us who are children, kind of coming back to the whole point of this conversation is how many of our parents don't have wills? How many of them don't have those directives? And those are conversations that we need to have, right? We need to have these open, difficult... crucial conversations, right? The financial concerns, end of life planning, medical directives, wills, you know, where and how do they want to be buried, right? David, you talked about your mom wanting to be cremated. My parents did originally. Now they're getting buried and they've got their lots picked out. They know exactly what kind of casket they're going to be in, which I tell you, when they're sending me the place that they're going to be buried and they're like, this is what our casket, I'm like, whoa, I'm not ready for this. But But it's important that we have to have those uncomfortable conversations, even if we are, whoa, not ready for it. Guess what? They have to be had. So, sorry, I didn't really have a point there besides just- No,
Speaker #2
no, no. I mean, that's part of this discussion that we need to have is the financial concerns and kind of end of life. I mean, do they go into a care facility? Do they They stay in the house. You get help, you know, to come in and out. you know, to take care of them. And that's one thing that we've been doing with them. It's like, we're for now, like they're staying in the house, you know, that the, that we've, that they've been in for 50, 47 years or something like that. You know? Um, and, uh, you know, I come, we've come up with some planning, my brothers and I, it's like, you know, get them, um, you know, get them, we had this, I have this house person that this person that comes and clean the house. And I was like, well, have her come in twice a week or like, you know, like just get. get in the house even more often, you know, maybe she can help do the laundry and stuff like that. So, um, you know, just, um, You know, they've been really good, my parents and my dad mainly, with like, you know, their medical insurance and, you know, like wills and stuff like that. They've been really good with that. I'm not actually sure of, you know, burial and caskets at this point. You know, it's like just another conversation I don't want to have, but need to have, you know, you know, for sure. They gave my brother power of attorney because he's the oldest, you know, for what they needed, what what's coming next, you know, and where they are right now. Um, but, uh, anything else on that, like financial end of life, David, anything, John, you have some notes here as well.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I've got, you know, sorry, David, one more thing to jump on there is that we're talking about all this as responsibilities on us as children taking care of our elderly parents, but what falls upon them for us as well, right? They have to have the will, they have to decide where they're going to be buried. um what do they need to do in their last 5, 10, 15, 20 years that they're here to ensure that their parental responsibilities continue to be filled, right? Like, as a parent, you still want to take care of your children, even as you are much older. So, you know, what can they do, right? The will, letting us know what their last desires are, their directives are. Having those conversations with us, right? Maybe we aren't mature enough to have those conversations. Rather, that's not quite what I want to say. Maybe we aren't mature enough to start those conversations. Maybe it's upon them to start it with us. You know, what kind of mess are we as children going to have to clean up, right? And I mean, that comes metaphorically. What messes are we going to have to clean up? Administrative. financial, but then literal as well, right? My mom, she texted me, she said, downsize, downsize, declutter your closets, clean up your house. Now that's going to release or ease the burden later. Don't leave the mess for your children. I thought that was interesting that she said that, but I was like, oh yeah, some of this does. Still as elderly parents, if they still have their wits about them, they still have responsibilities. Um, so just a interesting side, side note there, but yeah, the, the financial piece, the administrative piece, we have to have those open, uh, end of life planning conversations, uh, from both sides.
Speaker #2
Yeah. Yeah. Um, good. And David, anything on that front? Yeah,
Speaker #0
no, I mean, that, that's, it's a hard thing because I think like the prior generations, our, our parents' generation, I mean, think about us. nobody really teaches you about money in high school. They don't, they need to have classes teaching us how to balance checkbooks and teaching us about money. It's like, you know, we, you kind of learn what you learn on your own. I don't know that our parents had a lot of financial training. It's like even exercising. They, they never exercised probably when they were younger, they smoke and drank and had a good time, you know, but I mean, it's like, if you've never had those conversations or if they don't know, you know, it may shift the response. So you may shift to us. Right. To help them. Because I, I talked to a lot of friends who are going through this with their parents and, and it is surprising how many people don't have a will in place. But even beyond that, it's like, you know, anymore with, you know, somebody goes in and they're get put on a ventilator or whatever, you know, have a, do not resuscitate. You know, there's so many, you lose so much control when somebody becomes debilitated, you know, when somebody. has a full-blown dementia or Alzheimer's, you know, you lose control of their estate, you lose control of their finances if you don't have these things in place. So that definitely needs to happen. But then also you've seen when someone passes away and all the kids or the family members start fighting over the estate or I want grandma's China or I want that jacket. I mean, if there are things that sentimental, it's okay to have those conversations with your family to say, hey, you know, what do you want? What do I want? Okay. Hey, mom, or hey, dad, this is Are you cool with this? Cause what if they say, no, I want that to go to the grandkid or I don't want any of you to have it. Cause you're all, we're bad kids or, you know, I want to donate. I mean, you know, some people want their estate completely donated, but they don't realize that if they don't put that in writing, it's not going to happen. People are going to fight or they're going to be getting into disagreement. So I think, yeah, communication is a, is a big deal. And I think some parents maybe don't know how to have that conversation or they, they don't want. to start that dialogue because the kids may have been fighting or whatever but i mean it's man i don't know as much as you can be open about this stuff it it takes a huge burden off the future because you're right it's having to clean up afterwards or clutter or leftovers or you know whatever whatever it could be even taxes right
Speaker #1
Like the taxes on the estate, the taxes on inheriting a house. Those need to be conversations. Hey, do you want the house? Is it a burden you're prepared to take on? Oh, and maybe you should talk to an estate planner. Say, okay, well, if I were to die tomorrow and this house was to go to my children, kind of initially you're like, oh, I'm giving them something, but maybe it's a burden. Maybe it's a burden they're not prepared to handle financially, not just mentally or emotionally, but financially. So I think those are some conversations that need to be had in that regard as well. And I'll be honest, my dad is a planner to the nth degree. I mean, that's probably where I get mine from. But he's done a tremendous job in planning for this. I hope that it's still 10, 15, 20 years down the road. But he has definitely communicated a lot to us about his desires. He designed the house that my parents live in. He's an architect and the house is beautiful, very different from your traditional house. It's an architect's house. And there's questions like, okay, well, who's this house going to go to? As important as the house is, as a, you know... tremendous memory for having him design it and having him buy the piece of land that it was on and clear the lot and build a foundation and build a house and then live in it. The number of memories that we have in that house, are we still prepared to take it on? So, um, yeah, there's definitely a lot of, a lot of things that we don't think about taking into account that we need to.
Speaker #2
Yeah. And I need to have some conversation with, with my family around certain things. It's just like little things, like instead of I don't know. My brothers can be interesting and I can see it almost be like a free-for-all in some ways if it's not kind of written down or pinned down, you know, and I'd rather, and like, you know, that's what I don't want my relationship to be with my brothers after my parents are no longer with us is fighting over shit and then like being resentful around that stuff. And then like, that's our relationship. Do you know what I mean? So like, I think it's what you were saying earlier, David, is clean it up now. Even though like whatever that is, uh, instead of just hoping that it's in the will or something like that. So that, that's a really good point.
Speaker #1
I just added to my little to-do list. That's off the, off the side of the screen here. Update your will. Like the last time I updated it, I wasn't, I was still in the military. So that's five plus years ago. And, and, you know, I've gotten more things since then. And, uh, yeah. Well, I've had a new kid since then. Yeah.
Speaker #2
Yeah.
Speaker #0
No, I was just going to chime in real quick and say, you know, the first. conversations I had with my mom about a will is she's like, well, if I, you know, if I start talking about my will, I'm going to die. Like, like a thought process of she didn't want to talk about it, you know, because then she's talking about her demise. It's like, well, you know, you finally get them to that place where it's like, this is, you want to do something for us as your kids. This is something that would be amazing for us because it, it's not. you know, there's not going to be a bunch of issues after the fact. So I, and I think that happens with a lot of people. They'd rather not talk about it or they don't want to talk about death or they don't want to talk about, and that is kind of prevalent in the United States. There's a lot of cultures that are more open about death and don't look at it the same way, but there are conversations that do need to happen because it takes a massive amount of stress off the family. You know, the, the, the death is, is bad enough. Losing a loved one is bad enough. Then you're having to deal with a complex, not even a complex estate, just everything that has to come afterwards that's a lot that's too much for some people to handle and it it just yeah take care of it now just like will said because yeah it will it will add so much peace to everybody's life and especially their loved one they wouldn't want you to be fighting after they're gone yeah exactly i want to stay close with my brothers and not be like oh my god like oh you got this instead of me or something like that or you took this you
Speaker #2
know whatever and it's just like that's not that's not what my parents when they're no longer here would want. you know i think that's maybe that's another thing to think about is like you know honor you know honor the family unit like keep the connection alive and how do you you know within you know this end of life experience that everyone is going to go through whether it's going to be a slow decline or whether it's going to you know happen really fast i mean it's like if you have time to create the conversation and necessary conversation around it so it's like as easy as a transition could possibly be then I think that path would be the best served, you know, to do it that way.
Speaker #1
I want to bring up something that we've kind of alluded to tangentially, you know, we talk about when our parents are gone or when they're soon to be gone. And I referenced this book earlier, Being Mortal. And some of the things that are covered in this book, Being Mortal, are prioritizing prolonging life over quality of life. And I know that's something that as children, we want our parents to live as long as they can, right? We want to prolong their life because we don't want to lose them. But that could be selfish on our part. It's just like being a pet owner, right? Sometimes we prolong the pet's life because, hey, we don't want to lose the pet, but really it's harder on us to let the pet go. Well, sometimes it's harder on us to let our parents go. I don't want my parents to go. Am I prioritizing the wrong thing? Am I prioritizing the prolonging of their life over the quality of life? And I want to make sure that as a child, I'm prioritizing their quality of life over that. The other side is, like in that book, is we don't talk about aging. We talk about it like a condition, right? Like, oh, you call it the age virus, right? Like you're aging. But we all do it, right? Modern society with medicine, with all the technological advances, we treat aging as a problem to solve. And Will and I, we've talked about, what's that guy's name that's right now, he's trying not to die. Brian Johnson. Brian Johnson, yeah. Interesting episode, interesting individual. But aging is something that we're all going to, it's going to happen to all of us, right? And aging is not a problem that needs to be solved, but it's a stage of life that needs to be supported. And that's something that we need to understand. And then lastly, and this is a piece that we've talked about quite a bit, in the book, it talks about conversations that we avoid. So specifically, you know, talking to our parents about their condition. Like, do you understand your condition? What is your understanding of your condition? And I say condition, it's aging, but truly, where are you mentally, physically, emotionally? What are your goals? Yes, you're towards the latter part of your life, but what are your goals? What can I help you to still attain with your mental and physical capacities that they're at? What are your goals if your health worsens? And then what are you willing to sacrifice or not? And then last thing. that he talks about in the book is what does a good day look like for you in this, in this time, in, in your current state? Uh, I think those are, yeah. So the book being mortal, uh, phenomenal book, definitely tied to what we're talking about here. And some of the conversations that we have to have with our parents are covered in that book. So check it out.
Speaker #2
Yeah. I mean, I think we've done a pretty good job here, gentlemen, you know, with this, like, I don't know. I mean, we're, We're coming up well over.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Oh,
Speaker #2
wow. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Exactly. I've been watching that time. Um, but, uh, I know. Right. Um, but thanks guys. Thank you gentlemen. What have you have closing reflections from your parents? Like staying active, stay curious, laugh, right. You know?
Speaker #1
Yeah. So man, uh, one thing my parents do still, uh, is they play Wordle. Uh, I don't know if you guys are familiar with Wordle, but, uh, basically it's just a, it's kind of a word game as the name implies. They play it and I play it with them on occasion. I need to play that with them more regularly. Uh, keeping passion alive, uh, whatever that might look like. Uh, you know, there's, there's a reason that we're here. And part of that is having a passion, whether that's a physical passion, intimacy, or a passion that you're pursuing in your life. Like my dad has been a cyclist as long as I can remember my whole life, even longer than that. Um, and then, like I said, staying in touch with your children, I think, uh, and, and a lot of that falls upon us as the children is, uh, we've got to, we've got to. stay in touch with them. So I think those are just the last couple of things I want to make sure we touched on again.
Speaker #2
What I'll say also is like, get the family together, like get more of your family together. That's one thing I've been very blessed with, with this reunion that is like this year was the 79th year, which is incredible that a 78th year this year of this reunion. But it's like, it's a celebration of family. It's remembrance of family, the members that have passed, you know? And it just, there's something about if you're able to do that. or make it happen. You can be that person in your family, whoever's listening, to get your family together as often as you possibly can because those are memories that you're always going to be able to take with you and have.
Speaker #1
Yeah. So I giggled there, not because you were wrong. I giggled there because, um, I've got my three young kids, eight, six, and four. And you know, when they're fighting as young kids do, I mean, old kids do too, but fighting like young kids do about the most trivial thing in the world. I always tell them, Hey, one day family is going to be everything to you. Love your sister. Love your brother. Love your parents. Love your. cousins. Because one day they're not going to be there. And I think that's what this show is all about. This particular episode is one day, some people that we love very dearly, namely our parents in this particular episode are not going to be here. And what can we do to ease that for them and then take care of ourselves at the same time?
Speaker #0
Yeah, no, agreed. I think, you know, this, this is something that a lot of people our age are dealing with and. You know, we get done with this and then we're starting with our own adventure, you know, our own experience with our kids and, you know, taking these little tidbits we put out there. I mean, this is just scratching the surface. You know, you get into the cost of coverage and care and short-term care and different things in home care for, you know, there's so many other places we can go. But I think just talking about this subject, which a lot of men don't do, you talk about. Our sisters and our mothers, they're the caregivers. Well, men aren't talking about this. And whether we're suffering with guilt or depression or the fear of losing our parents, you know, it's okay to talk about this stuff. But it's also, we need to prepare ourselves and our kids, do a better job maybe than our parents prepared us. You know, when you know better, you do better. So if we can keep building on this and, again, help our kids to understand. the process and, and what we're going through with our parents. When, when we get there, they're, they're going to do better for us and hopefully we can do better for them. But I mean, we're talking about longevity in life. You know, a lot of these studies about long lives, one of the aspects is your relationships, you know, socializing, having strong relationships with your friends and your family. It's like, we'll say and get together. Yes. Get together with your family, get together with your friends that, you know, don't. If you don't put on the calendar, it's not going to happen, you know, and so, you know, you keep saying, oh, yeah, we're going to do that someday. You know, do it tomorrow. Do it next week. Do it next month. Don't put those things off. I mean, that's that's that is the spice of life. You know, money doesn't make you happy. It might give you more choices, but really, it's just about people and spending time together. And, you know, we do a little toast with all of our grown kids, our adult kids. Now they're all young adults and we always. You know, we always raise a glass and we say it in Spanish. It's a la vida rica, it's the rich life. And I always tell them it has nothing to do with money. It's that experience. It's us being together. That's the rich life. So, you know, just, yeah, be in the moment.
Speaker #1
I tell my eight-year-old that she's obsessed with Taylor Swift, which is funny because my son's name is Taylor. And he keeps thinking, he's like, well, where's my Swift? I'm like, no, that's not what's going on here. Anyhow. I asked my daughter, I said, which one would you rather be? Would you rather be rich or would you rather be famous? And she said, I want to be famous like Taylor Swift. I said, well, Taylor Swift is famous and rich. And she said, okay, well then I want to be rich. I said, well, you are rich. And she said, no, I'm not. I said, yeah, you are. You have family who loves you, family who loves you. And that's, I tell you, there's no riches like that. Having family and friends. And that's the thing, friends, what is it? friends or the family that you choose, you brothers are my family. I consider you a family and I consider some of my other closest friends as family. Um, and, and being, uh, staying close to them, staying in touch with them. Uh, there's no other riches like that. So I love that you finished with that, David.
Speaker #2
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #1
I think that's a, that's a wrap fellas.
Speaker #2
Awesome guys. Uh, let's just do one breath to close. Exhale out. One big giant inhale. Fill it up. A little more, a little more. And let it go. Awesome. Well, there we have it. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Thanks for checking us out. John, Dave, David, great to have you back on the show. John, I would love to see you. And, hey, leave some comments. Subscribe, support. Hey. Just talking mindfulness. Share it on your social. Let us know what you can, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker #1
I think we'd all be remiss if we didn't say thanks to our moms and dads. Yeah,
Speaker #2
exactly. Thanks,
Speaker #1
y'all. Thanks for our listeners. Thanks to mom and dad for listening. Thanks to my mom and dad from me for contributing to today's episode. So love you guys. Love you, David, Will. Love you, mom and dad. See you next time. Take care.
Speaker #2
Later. Thanks, everybody. Peace, peace. Thank you.
Speaker #1
Thank you for joining us today. We hope you walk away with some new tools and insights to guide you on your life journey. New episodes are being published every week, so please join us again for some meaningful discussion. For more information, please check out mentalkingmindfulness.com.

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Transcription

Speaker #0
Get together with your family. Get together with your friends. If you don't put on the calendar, it's not going to happen. You know, you keep saying, oh yeah, we're going to do that someday. You know, do it tomorrow. Do it next week. Do it next month. Don't put those things off. I mean, that's, that's, that is the spice of life. You know, money doesn't make you happy. It might give you more choices, but really it's just about people and spending time together.
Speaker #1
One day, family is going to be everything to you. Love your sister, love your brother, love your parents, love your cousins. That's one day they're not going to be there. And I think that's what this show is all about. This particular episode is one day, some people that we love very dearly, namely our parents in this particular episode are not going to be here. What can we do to ease that for them and then take care of ourselves at the same time?
Speaker #0
You know, when you're a kid, your parents are your heroes or you think they're impervious to being sad or invincible. And I think a lot of it was shifting my own paradigm of my mother because the person who she was is not who she is now. And so I think changing my own expectations has helped me be more present and be there for her where anymore it's really hard to have a conversation with her because she doesn't dialogue. You have to pull something out of her. And early on, I was always waiting for her to engage or so I've been able to shift again my expectations and my paradigm so I can just either sometimes it's just sitting with her.
Speaker #2
Raw, uncut and unapologetic. Welcome to Men Talking Mindfulness. Caring for aging parents isn't just an idea anymore. It's becoming more of a reality every passing month. My parents are now 79 and 86 years old. I see them growing more fragile, losing a bit of their sharpness, and needing my support more often. Each visit, each phone call brings moments of love, along with reminders of how much has changed. It's both heartbreaking and humbling to help with things that they once did for me. It's a hard subject for anyone in this situation, so we thought it would be helpful to dedicate an episode and bring more life to this deeply human experience. We are joined today by David Valadez, who is part of the Men Talking Mindfulness team, who has his own experience to share. So for anyone walking this path, know that you're not alone. We're in this together, learning, stumbling, and growing through every challenge and every act of care. Welcome to the show. Welcome to the show, gentlemen. It's great to be back. And God, as I read this, I'm like, oh, all this, these kind of feelings are coming up already because this is something that's really starting to hit home more and more. And just a little, I just, we just finished our 79th actual family reunion this weekend. So we're recording this on whatever today, Tuesday the 15th or something like that. Just after like, you know, I was just home like three days ago doing this reunion. So good to be back, gentlemen. John. What's next?
Speaker #1
Hey, Will, David, good to see you guys. Yeah. I mean, as you read that, a lot of emotions bubbled up in me as well, which we'll get into here shortly. And incidentally, we're actually recording this on my parents' 58th anniversary.
Speaker #2
Oh, wow.
Speaker #1
And I reached out to them yesterday. It's a little difficult to reach out to your parents and say, hey, I'm doing an episode on taking care of my elderly parents. and I Don't want to say that I'm taking care of them because I live here in Colorado Springs and my parents live in Ruston, Louisiana. And we'll get into that in a little bit. But there's still an aspect of it that is caring for them and taking care of them in a way. So anyhow, announcements, the same announcements we've had for a while now. We've got our, just check out our website, mentalkingmindfulness.com. It's got all the things, our upcoming episodes. It's got our upcoming... Spartan race that we're going to be doing down in Dallas. And we'd love to have you join us as part of the team there. We've got a few people signed up already and that's in October. Yeah. And then everything else is on site. Check it out. And as we start every show, we're going to do one breath, one breath grounding practice to get ourselves, the three of us here settled. And for you all that are joining us either on video or on audio. So thanks for joining us. And that said. let's get into a comfortable position whatever that might look like for you now we begin with a nice exhale letting everything out emptying emptying bring your navel to your spine and holding empty at the bottom for a moment and then a nice long slow deep breath in feeling all the way to the top and holding full And letting go. All right.
Speaker #2
We didn't get a chance to say hello to David yet. David, hi.
Speaker #1
Yeah, we did. We both said hi. We did. Well,
Speaker #2
you didn't say hi.
Speaker #0
Because of another oven today again. Thank you for having me back.
Speaker #1
Yeah, David has been on our show before also to discuss a somewhat difficult conversation topic. We spoke about divorce last time. It seems that we have David on to speak about difficult topics. We were in person last time. We've gotten together for, I think we were getting together for our first MTM Summit. We had another one this spring here in Colorado Springs. And I actually know it wasn't for our summit. We were doing something else. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Bottom line, this is the second time we've had David on. David is our senior business advisor. Also our junior business advisor.
Speaker #0
And intern.
Speaker #2
And the intern business advisor.
Speaker #1
So anyway, great to have you here with us, David. So you've shared your experiences with helping with your parents. And something that we're going to talk about today is being fully present with your parents, actively listening without judgment or rushing. And that's, man. And that's where I struggle. And that's where I struggle with everyone, unfortunately. As a mindfulness practitioner who's supposed to be preaching and practicing compassion and love, I do, unfortunately, get wrapped up in rushing through things. And that patience and that presence can be the most valuable gift for both ourselves and those that we're caring about. Specifically, today, we're speaking about our elderly parents. Um, what, for you, what have been some of the ways that you have accomplished this, this being present, fully present, actively listening without judgment or rushing with your parents? Uh,
Speaker #2
I've, I've just, I just help them more often. You know, like I do when I'm home, uh, I do like to cook. So I do just a lot of cooking and, you know, my dad is interesting. He likes to always, um, kind of, uh, instruct and. demand or direct authoritatively sometimes like what to do so it just like sometimes i'll i'll just do what he says you know what i mean and not try to combat with them in some ways um so i think just just being there and being with them and just my dad loves to watch baseball so i'm not a i mean i like baseball too but i don't feel like i need to watch a game so i sit and watch a game with him a little bit we talk about sports and you know um my mom uh, you know, just having longer conversations with her, you know, she's slowed down significantly over the last few years from a really botched hip operation. So like just for her to leave the house is like, you know, like five or 10 minutes. So it really slows me down tremendously. Uh, cause I want to rush too. I want to get to the theater. I want to get to dinner. I want to do this. And, and, uh, so I just really enjoy more of all the moments in between and every step that she takes, I'm just right there with her.
Speaker #1
So it's hard. Oh yeah, it is. For sure. Yeah. David?
Speaker #0
I think for me, one thing, my wife's mother actually, she had some early onstage dementia and Alzheimer's, hit her mid-70s, and now she's been at home for the last three years because she does need full care. So once my mother started having some challenges here within the last, I'd say, three years or so, not as progressive. And she's a little older than my wife's mother. But it was interesting because being exposed to my mother-in-law first, it helped me with my own mother a little bit just because I was prepared for it. But I think the biggest challenge for me and the biggest, I guess, benefit of the relationship is early on. I remember making comments to my siblings and my sister in particular, because she's her primary caregiver, but almost saying, I didn't recognize my mom anymore. I don't, you know, oh, she was never like that. She was never, you know, when you're a kid, your parents are your heroes, or you think they're impervious to being sad or invincible. And I think a lot of it was shifting my own paradigm of my mother because the person who she was is not who she is now. And so I think changing my own expectations has helped me be more present and be there for her, where anymore it's really hard to have a conversation with her because she doesn't dialogue. You have to pull something out of her. And early on, I was always waiting for her to engage or, so I've been able to shift again, my expectations and my paradigm. So I can just be there sometimes as just sitting with her and watching a sporting event or even watching the news. She watches the news too much, but that's kind of her thing sometimes. So if, if it's just having a cup of coffee when I'm visiting and, and sitting with her, a lot of it, again, has just been changing my expectations because it's not about me. And that's a hard thing to shift with your parents because you. You're used to them taking care of you and it becomes a little bit of a role reversal for us.
Speaker #1
I've definitely felt all that. And I got to be honest, it's going to be difficult to make it through this conversation without tearing up quite a bit. You know, my parents are their early 80s and still have all their faculties. And I'm definitely blessed in that. But I know, you know, the time is eventually coming. But to deal with this presence piece. I don't know, it must've been six or seven, maybe more years ago than that. I interviewed my parents on a Zoom call and I recorded it. It was like three hours long, man. I asked them all the questions that I've ever wanted to ask them. And then since then, more life has been lived. And this is not a plug for this particular company at all, but this, I don't know if you can see that, but there's a book now it's called... Ian and Glenn. That's my parents' names. And it's dad and mom. And it's put together by this company called StoryWorth. And StoryWorth is they send a question once a week via email to your parents. And I actually sent one to each one of them every week for a year and then compiled it into one book. And you get the responses via email. And man, the things that I learned about my parents, like you were talking, David, it humanized them. In my eyes, my parents are still my heroes. They're still my heroes to this day and probably always will be even after they're gone. But yes, in my eyes, my parents were kind of invincible. And this listening to them, be it through that interview or be it through this book. has really humanized them in a good way. And I think that's helped me to connect with them and know that we're all mortal. If you ever want to read a really powerful book about death in and of itself, it's a book called Being Mortal. Man, that'll change the way that you perceive others' mortality in your own, also in a good way. But yeah, it's definitely a practice being uh present with them because we're all we've all got our own lives i've got young kids now right now i'm a father um and and being able to stay in touch with my parents who are geographically separated from me i have to i have to i'm ashamed to admit this because they're my parents are going to listen to this episode later um i have to put it on my to-do list it pops up every so often hey call mom and dad because otherwise i'll get wrapped up in my own life and unfortunately kind of neglect that connection point. So anyhow,
Speaker #2
onto the next thing, right?
Speaker #1
Yeah. Or move on to the next thing. Right.
Speaker #2
Right. One thing I'll say about listening, I think, um, you know, you mentioned, uh, dementia and we actually had, uh, Dr. Mark Gordon on talking about neurodegenerative diseases and, you know, go back and listen to that episode for really some great information on that. And as far as like listening goes, like my mom is, is really suffering with. like some dementia, like, you know, she's there and she's present and she recognizes me. We have great conversations, but like literally her memory right now is like maybe three minutes, five minutes. It's like, it's really short. Like, you know, there's been times where, you know, we'll move from the house to the car, we'll get in the car. She's like, where we're going? I'm like, we just talked about the shopping list five minutes ago, you know? But so what I've been trying to do when I do talk to her on the phone, uh, is not being like, oh mom I told you this Like, not like, oh, hey, like, yeah, we talked about that yesterday. You know, just trying to, like, not make them feel bad or ashamed in some way that, like, that they, or just even really bring up or even the possibility of the decline. You know, because it doesn't, I just don't want them to feel bad that they're repeating themselves. I just really, that's another way that I'm trying to stay present and try to hold space with them and let them, like, tell the same story again and again and laugh at it, you know, in some ways. It's like, they've done their time like they've done a lot for me i'm like your parents have both of you i'm sure so just like you know let them you know have have these moments with together you know and we're going to be there one day
Speaker #1
you know, ourselves probably in one way or another, there is a, uh, a level of frustration at times. So, um, I'll tell you, I went to Australia and I've talked about this a little bit on the show before I went to Australia a couple of months back with my parents and my eldest daughter. And, you know, one of the reasons I was going was to help my parents. And, uh, and unfortunately I lost my temper a few times with them. Um, which when I took a step back, I actually sat through, um, uh, a therapy session about this very thing is I was really upset with myself about that because, you know, eventually we're all going to lose our parents. And, uh, and I turned what should have been an extremely special time with them into a time of, of, uh, self-centeredness. Um, and, and And then I felt an anticipatory grief. Okay, like my parents are still here with us, here as far as on the planet. Yes, geographically they're separated, but at one time or another down the road, they're not going to be. And that anticipatory grief is what my therapist told me that I was struggling with. That's going to be there for all of us. And then it's eventually going to turn into real grief. But. That doesn't mean we have to turn the moment right now into a grieving moment. We can enjoy the here and now. At the same time, we've got to give our parents the dignity and the respect. I mean, they've earned the respect they've raised us, right? We got to respect them. And that's one thing I was not doing. So one thing this show, just this very episode, is I think going to help to drive home to me is... Respect your elders, damn it. Right. I love my parents' death and I need to be better about one, staying in contact with them and then two, respecting who they are, what they've done for us, sacrifices, efforts, and then take a step back and not get frustrated because guess what? The aging is a part of everybody's life. I'm sure my kids are going to get frustrated with me down the road. Hell, they're already getting frustrated with me. So, yeah. just a matter of time.
Speaker #2
So it's so nice to just, I don't just to be there. I think it's really, I mean, the phone calls and the FaceTimes and stuff are good, but like nothing, you know, could take the place of actually physically being there, you know? And it's really, you know, I feel that anticipatory grief in some ways, but also it's a grief almost to, I like collectively, uh, cause every time I go home, you know, they're immediately. And as I'm like getting closer to leaving, they're like, when are you coming back? And I've never heard so much urgency in that question. Oh. You know, in some ways it's like, you know, it's almost like, I'm glad that my little brother is home with them now, thankfully, so it makes things a little bit easier for all of us. I have another brother that lives about an hour away. I'm in New York about three hours away from them. More like five hours, four hours to kind of actually get back there to see them. But, yeah, it's just, oh, God. I mean, like, I wrote down in my notes, I'm like, comic relief, so find a moment. you know to have like you know laugh a little bit because this gets it just gets so heavy and i don't know what that's going to look like down in during this podcast but i'm just like oh wow maybe that's me also wanting to run from it or some ways but yeah david yeah and just one thing to to chime in too for um the
Speaker #0
people on the call that aren't on the call not the call the show but you know the your you know your men talking mindfulness out there we are talking about our parents. In a positive way. I mean, I lost my dad at 16. He hasn't been around for a long time, you know, but my mom, she went through a lot of shit to get two kids still in school through and, and whatnot. But there's a lot of people too, that don't have good relationships with their parents. And, you know, so we, I wanted to make sure and talk just that, you know, we're not looking at this with rose colored glasses and everything's all peachy. I mean, one of my wife's good friends. Her mother had Alzheimer's. She had to take care of her and she did not have a great relationship. And really, she ended up being her primary caregiver when she probably had the worst relationship of all the siblings. So above and beyond people who have good relationships with their aging parents and struggling to deal with them, the people who have bad relationships and then are stuck in that place, it's even harder for them. So, you know, I think we want to talk about all the challenges with that. but Ultimately, the whole men talking mindfulness angle too is to take care of yourself and we'll get to that. But just, you know, I want to make sure we acknowledge that there's people out there struggling even beyond us. with those challenges, with those relationship challenges with their parents.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I mean, great point, David. So thank you for that. And I will say that, you know, one of our listeners, regular listeners, and he's also gone through our retreats. He's become friends with us. He had his father living at home with him. He has since passed away. His father did, but he had his father living at home with him and they did not have a good relationship. As a matter of fact, they struggled and they struggled before he was living at home with them. And then when he did come and live with them, it was that much more difficult. So, you know, I try to empathize with that situation for sure. But then, yes, taking care of yourself, whether you're a primary caretaker for, you know, your parents, your spouse, your children. When you become a caretaker for others, whether it's because that's just the position you're in or whether there's a sickness or aging, one of the first things to drop as far as on that priority list is yourself. And I felt that as a dad. I felt that as a husband in the past. And I'm sure at some point or another, we've all felt that or will feel that. So yeah, great point. So thank for that, David. All right, so let's talk about... maintaining dignity and independence for our parents. As they age, they don't want to put a burden on us. They want to be able to make their own choices whenever possible. What can we do to support them in this? I think I mentioned before, I reached out to my parents to find out with. they would like to hear on this show because they are going to listen. And my parents, they said, you know, having pets, like having a pet to play with or take care of, right? It's an empty nest, right? I mean, it's been an empty nest for 30 plus years at our house. So they've had pets, they've had hobbies. My parents both cycle still to this day quite a bit. My mom and dad. They both get out in the garden. My mom gardens, my dad fixes up all the little trinkets in the garden. My mom knits. So having some type of hobby is very important for them. Um, for you guys, what have you seen are some of the best ways that you can kind of support this, uh, this dignity and this independence? David, I'll start with you.
Speaker #0
Uh, I mean, it's hard because, you know, my mom now is 85 and, um,
Speaker #1
we.
Speaker #0
A couple of years ago, she decided that she wanted to sell her home and go into an independent living community. And so we found her a place where they did have independent living and she could progress. If she needed increased care down the road, she could progress through their facility, their care facility. And, you know, it was a very, at the time, it seemed like a very open-eyed, very conscious decision. Unfortunately, that only lasted about six months. And then she didn't want to stay there. and we had to re... reshuffle a lot of things readjust it was a very trying time it created a lot of stripe within the family because we you know the siblings didn't all agree necessarily on what was the what was next and um i think now after these last few events um we still anymore we we we all i make sure we make sure we're all uh in agreement with whatever decision is going to be made but We do push back a little bit more. I mean, we want to know what she wants, what her mother wants. My sister is her primary caregiver, so she gets an extra vote in the whole thing. But we all sit down with her. And if we don't feel like she's making the right decision, we don't necessarily tell her she's wrong, but we'll present why. And we just tell her, well, this is what we collectively think needs to be done. Because it's hard to tell her, number one, that she's wrong. because that's not something you want to do with, with, you know, our aging parents at that place. But then you also just, we want to make sure the families align because then those decisions hold more weight. So they're not just, you know, oh, well, one person believes this because just like any human, they'll try to recruit, they'll talk to one sibling, you know, and then the other child, the other child and get, try to get somebody on their side or whatever. And I think, yeah, it is a lot of allies. And so it's, we do, we do listen, but we push back a little more just because her condition that has progressed a little bit. I mean, she can still fully function, take care of herself, do all the, uh, you know, the, the basic care needs and all that stuff. But as far as the big picture of, you know, what is the right decision, where should she live, how much should, you know, rent or things like that cost collectively, we may make those decisions.
Speaker #2
Yeah.
Speaker #1
What about you, Will?
Speaker #2
Uh, my parents are, you know, they're pretty independent still. Like my dad, even 86 gets to the gym like a few times a week, which is great. They're still driving. You know, there's my dad, like, I'm really impressed how, what a good shape my dad is. He still has his, his mind as well, which is good. And I don't know, he's been taking supplements like his whole life. So maybe that has a lot to do with it. And he just, he seems to always add one more when I get by the one next time I'm home. So I mean, good for him. Kudos to him. He's not any pharmaceuticals at all. which is great. So I mean, you know, they, I mean, how do I support them? I just let them keep doing what they're doing. You know, and one thing I get, that I make sure I do, it's like, I don't want to, I can just so quickly and easily do so many things, whether it's like making a bed or making a meal or running to the store or doing something. And I make sure like I help them to realize like, hey, well you can do this too. You know what I mean? Like, I think you should take your energy, your time, you know, like, and give yourself that eventual reward of like actually completing something instead of letting it be done for you. So as long as they're still capable, uh, um, I think you should just let them do things that they have normally always done. Um, so I think that that's one way to share that independence with them.
Speaker #1
Yeah. I think, um, you know, as a, as a son, as a daughter wanting to Give. back to our parents who gave us so much. There's probably a desire to step in as often as you want or as often as you can. But I think there's much like being a parent, watching your kids struggle to do X, Y, or Z. You're like, oh, well, let me just step in and do it for you. Well, what's that doing for the kid? It's taking away a sense of independence. It's taking away a sense of pride. It's almost taking away a little bit of their dignity. Well, if we step in whenever we want to, as a son or a daughter, as a child for our parents, then that's probably doing the same thing, taking away a sense of their dignity and independence. Don't step in all the time, but step in when they truly need it. Maybe ask them, maybe you truly, hey, mom and dad, I want to be as helpful as I can without stepping on your toes. Where can I help? So let's talk about that very thing, like the practical support. What are some things that we can do to help with daily tasks. You know, you mentioned, Will, that your dad's still driving. My parents are both still driving. You know, maybe if they're not, maybe you can offer some type of transportation. You can help them manage their medications. You know, really as a now a primary caretaker, potentially, like I don't live at home, but I've got three of my sisters who live in my parents' hometown. There's a good chance that they're going to be helping a lot with that. So they've got to stay informed about the medical needs, right? whatever those might be, whether it's visits or actual medicine, the legal documents, insurance. I talked to my mom or both my parents, again, via text for the show again. And I said, you know, what are some things that you would recommend that we could help you with? And she didn't necessarily come up with things that we could help with, but things that she said that they had done as a couple. And she said that they eat well. She said they skip red meat. So my parents are pescatarians. I'm personally not a big fan of skipping red meat. I like my red meat, but staying active, right? And that doesn't necessarily mean getting out on your bikes every day like my parents do, but they also go out and walk the dog. And then my mom said, and a little red wine every day doesn't hurt either.
Speaker #2
There you go.
Speaker #1
I love that. And, you know, I think there is. medical support for that, but I think also just relaxing and being like, you know what? Yeah. By God, I'm, I'm 80 X, Y X years old. I can have my glass of wine.
Speaker #2
My dad, my dad has this three o'clock Manhattan.
Speaker #1
There you go. There you go. Every day. Two, two, two, two data points.
Speaker #2
Yeah. Lots of supplements and a three o'clock Manhattan with like, with the next, with the little cherry juice in it, you know, that man, Manicino cherries or whatever juices in it.
Speaker #1
Uh, yeah, I just,
Speaker #2
but yeah, go for it.
Speaker #1
Yeah. What's the practical support, uh, that you guys feel that you can offer and what's the best way to go about doing that?
Speaker #2
You know, we just had, uh, um, you know, I, I make sure they're fed, you know, or like at least every time I'm going home, I'm buying groceries and definitely more pro they eat a lot of shit food. And I'm like, Oh my God. So I try to cook for them. I try to, you know, or just get a roasted chicken for them or something like that. Uh, one thing that we did last time I was home and I got, it's funny just before the show started. This guy texted me. Um, you know, we're going to get like, uh, we have, you know, we have a, you know, two story house. So we're going to, they're going to need like a little chairlift. for the up and down the stairs. So I coordinated a guy that came out and did an assessment and stuff like that. So we're probably going to get one of those installed as well. So just like supporting them in that way, I think has been very helpful. I've been trying to get or trying any doctor's appointments and stuff like that with them, but they're, you know, I just.
Speaker #0
they were kind of unwilling to relinquish any kind of control or want any kind of help in those areas so i'm just like you know i'll keep asking questions and and offering support if they want it but that seems to be like a no-no for them right now which is which is tough because also one thing i see with my parents and that you know and that i guess uh what boomer generation is is uh they just blindly trust the doctors you know and uh i just don't always that if that's the best course of action or at least like go look for in a second opinion. My parents are still locked in with, you know, the same doctor that they've had for 40 years. And, and I'm like, yeah, I don't know if he's doing the best for you and they don't want to hear any of that. So it's like probably,
Speaker #1
you know, 40 years now they're 80 something. So he's probably 80 something as well.
Speaker #0
He's probably 75. And now he's like, he's 350 pounds. I'm like, oh, he doesn't look like a healthy doctor, you know, mom and dad. So. anyway like i just i just offer support when i can you know lots of phone calls i'm lucky i have two brothers that live much closer one's in the house and one's uh close by um and um yeah it's just it's it just it just god it's a slow thing too it's like you know that's why one of the reasons i keep you know i'm always calling them probably like a couple times a week just to see what their needs are, you know what I mean? And then like, or how I can help them or just to talk to them in some way, you know? And then communicate that to my other siblings if I need to. But it's funny, I have this, hopefully I'll get these chairlifts in my parents' house within the next like week and a half or something like that, which would be very helpful for them. Yeah, I mean, it's just, it is what it is, you know? It is what it is. Just do, you know, I look at it as like, they've done so much for me, you know? I mean, so much, so much, so much for me. And I don't, and it's funny, like, there was a time when we had a reunion this weekend and it was a pretty warm day, humid day. And my mom was feeling a little flushed and a little, you know, just warm. And she wanted to go sit in the air conditioning in the car. And it was just, it was strange. I mean, cause like I grew up, this reunion has been part of my whole life. And, you know, all my cousins are there who have been part of me my whole life. So I'm used to, like, going on a plane, going in the water, horseshoes, whatever, just, you know, having fun, eating, drinking, having a great time. And I just, like, hung out with my mom for 25 minutes, you know, just standing outside the car, letting her be all good. And it was just, like, I felt like that I didn't want or need to be anywhere else. I was like, and I just wanted to get upset. I just wanted to just fucking hang out with my mom, you know, because she's my mom. And, like, I didn't, it didn't, nothing else mattered. Nothing else mattered. just
Speaker #1
taking care of her and being with her and it was it just it just i'm not going to be able to do that someday so it was just really nice to be part of her be with her and even at that moment you know so yeah it's tough it's really tough there are no first tears of the episode for me there it is man i'm sure for those yeah the last all right right yeah just to tell uh rather rather dovetail on what you just said like that trip to australia again i went with my eldest daughter as well. And we had met my parents at... Dallas-Fort Worth airport when we went out to Australia and now flip it when we're coming back from Australia, we were parting from our parents at DFW. And we made it through customs and all the other things and then get through security on the other side. And now my daughter and I are going one way and my parents are going the other. Hug them, say goodbye. And then my daughter, after we walk away a little bit, and now my parents are going to listen to this and it probably will upset them. But my daughter, she said, how do we know we're going to see Nani and Gramps again? That's what Nani is. My mom, Gramps is clearly my dad. And my answer was, we don't. We never know that.
Speaker #0
And that goes for any situation.
Speaker #1
It goes for any situation with anyone.
Speaker #0
Anyone, exactly.
Speaker #1
Yeah. But man, when she asked that in that moment, because I was already upset, you know, saying bye to my parents after such a great time. Um, but to ask, uh, you know, how do we know not when we're going to see them? How do we know if we're going to see them again? I was like, oh, wow. Heavy questions from little ones. So anyway, and, but sometimes those, those questions really make you think, um, and, and make you appreciate, uh, life, not just, not just your parents, but just life in general. Um, so sorry, uh, David. So what about, what about you, man? Any, any stories to share on kind of the, the. of practical support? I mean, you've already shared some.
Speaker #2
I did, but that was a really practical support. It's interesting because this question makes me sad because I live in the Seattle area in Washington state. My mom's down in Texas in the San Antonio area. So I'm far away. I'm not close to my mother. My sister lives literally right next door to her. Which I'm so thankful for. My sister is a, she is a saint. I mean, everything she does for my mother, she drives her everywhere, takes her to all her appointments. As you said, she keeps track of her medications. She, you know, makes sure she eats. She is literally, I mean, she's the powerhouse that does things that, I mean, I can't even imagine. You know, every time I go down there, I can see the stress on my sister because it's a lot. She's taken on a lot and she wants to take it on because you know, it's really important to her. She's like, why would I, why would I have somebody take care of my mother when I can do it? You know, but she also has a, you know, a full-time job and she still has one of her son is in college, you know? So she still has a lot of other things going on. And this is a hard question for me because I'm far away. And I always, I feel so helpless so many times. It's like, I'll be talking to my sister and I can either hear stress or I can hear her trying to figure out, okay, I've got eight things to do today. including getting mom to an appointment. It's like, man, I wish I was down the road where I could go help and I can't. And, you know, based on my prior response about where she's living and this, that, the other, I mean, I tell my sister all the time, I can read contracts. I can read rental agreements. I can provide some financial support. Beyond that, I'm so far away. I can't do anything daily to help. And so I really try to not only help. by calling, checking on my mom, but I also, you know, make sure my sister's okay. And it's like, what else can I do? What can I do for you? Because she really does provide the kind of support you're talking about, you know, and that's, it frustrates my mother because her commentary as of late is, you know, I'm being treated like a baby. Oh, I'm not a kid. You know, and that's really hard because you don't want them to feel that way when they're having memory issues are they I can't remember if I took my prescription or not, right? But my sister has her into a regimen where she, you know, okay, you take your pill, you write it down. She's got a little system, a little notepad. And, you know, unfortunately, if she's not doing that, we don't know if she's taking her medications regularly or if she's eating. To Will's point, I go down there and visit and I open her pantry and I'm looking at it going, man, we never had this stuff even in the house when we were kids. And why is she eating these foods that aren't really? nutritious or as healthy as they could be but they're just simple you know they when they don't have family to cook for anymore they don't really make these big elaborate meals it's more i think efficiency and they don't want to waste either they don't want to make something and then throw half of it away so it's very interesting watching this dynamic and it yeah it becomes difficult to not so much know where you can help but to adjust your help to their needs so it's okay the let's figure out little meals let's figure out like my sister how to make sure she's taking her you know her medications and if she's eating and so she checks in on her regular she drives her everywhere she hasn't been she hasn't been driving for about i don't know three years now and uh you know she's still very very self-capable you know washes her own laundry washed her own dishes takes care of herself no problems with any of that stuff but it's just remembering and so it's it's hard to really adjust to that and like i said for me it's difficult when You know, both of you are getting emotional. It makes me emotional because I wish I could do more. And it's because of physical distance and short of me packing up and moving down there, I can't really do much. And, you know, getting my mom to move anywhere. She's 85. She's not going anywhere. She likes where she is and she's not, yeah, she's not going to come live with any of the other siblings because now my sister has become her, her security blanket, her security blanket, you know, her, her crutch.
Speaker #1
and yeah David so What I found interesting is, you know, you're talking about your sisters. I just talked about, or your sister that's right next door to your mom. I've talked about my three sisters who live in my hometown. They're there to help. Isn't it something, there's something that is said that, you know, the daughters are who are going to end up taking care of you, right? They talk about people with sons, the sons, they're going to go out and do their own thing. But the people with the parents with daughters, their daughters are going to be there to care for you. here it is playing out. So I wanted to just mention like for men, what is it that kind of, uh, I don't know, plays out in that we end up in the majority of the cases being the ones that are away from our family. Now I will say that my, my wife, she herself is away from her, her mom and her dad. Um, and her brother is living there. Uh, so I guess it's a flipped flip scenario, but, um, have you guys seen that? Uh, what are your thoughts on that? Well,
Speaker #2
I think one thing just to chime in real quick regarding my, my mother, because with, with age comes incontinence issues, right? And that's a big one for my mother. She's a very proud woman. And I've, I've gone down there and stayed a couple of times to. allow my sister to go away for the weekend with her family or whatever. And, you know, that's a difficult thing for my mom because that level of trust she has in my sister and confidence. And that's, you know, that's some, she'd be mortified if I had to help her with some situation. So that's, I think that's part of it, you know, and, and I'm not sure if it probably happens with older gentlemen as well, too. They don't maybe want necessarily their daughter, Maybe they prefer their son. So I think there's a little bit of. of that aspect to it, at least in my case, you know, I can't speak for everybody, but I know that's been a challenge where, Hey, let me help you. It's like, uh, no thanks. You know, don't, don't even want you coming into my room right now. I'm in the bathroom or whatever it is. So I know that's part of it.
Speaker #1
Yeah. And then we'll, I mean, you've got two brothers, so it's all boys. So what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker #0
We, we all, we, we share the responsibility pretty well, uh, at this point. Um, you know, there still is that like male and female kind of i i don't know i i don't we'll see what happens as far as the continents goes like down the road uh they seem to be pretty good right now i mean that's just another level of care another level of intimacy another or not you know what i mean like of uh which is just like dignity exactly it's like i mean it just it's i'm and really just in the middle of it like right right right right right now and um um uh but i'm glad to have each other um and um We're still managing pretty well on my end, you know, with my parents where they are. Yeah.
Speaker #1
So, all right. Well, so let's take it to the, to the siblings, right? So my sisters are down in Louisiana. Will, you've got a brother living there. David, you've got a sister living there with your folks. You know, how can we, as those who might be geographically separated, how can we contribute to those who are right there with them? You know, involving our siblings, involving ourselves with our siblings and their caretaking of our parents. How can we involve other relatives, maybe local support? What can we do there?
Speaker #0
Well, I've been, you know, it's actually as our parents have gotten older, it's like, you know, my brothers and I seem to be getting a little closer because we're really, you know, it's just like something about rallying around like, you know, our parents who have taken care of us. Now we're taking care of them. Um, and I think like just supporting in the sense of like, uh, providing information or making phone calls, you know, or maybe taking some of the time off of their plate, you know, do it all, you know, cause they might drive them to the appointment and take them to the appointment, but I can set it up, you know, or something like that is, is, is, is kind of what I'm seeing coming up more and more. Um, but, um, yeah, I mean, I think the communication with, with, you know, with your siblings, with the family has been really important and we, I'm very lucky as well. you know the where i grew up um there we still have like i don't know 50 family members in the in the neighborhood you know what i mean like a lot i mean there's a lot of a lot of schneider blood where i'm from and uh and and and like all and you know and and my mom's sister isn't far away like half an hour away um you know which are very close and we're always in communication and um and it's just interesting we just how or it's interesting how we just continually support each other more and more, more and more. I just find like it's through that. It's just through love and through compassion and, and, uh, that we just find a way to make it all happen. And, and, you know, it's a sad, it's sad to see them decline, but it's also, uh, it's, it's, it's also very, um, feels good to the heart, uh, to see how we're communicating now and really care for them in such a deep way.
Speaker #1
Interesting. Interesting. Uh, kind of. Side effect, I guess, if you will, is as you start getting closer to your siblings, again, even if you are geographically separated, potentially, like David, you mentioned there might be challenges with your siblings as well about, hey, the different opinion on what is needed for your parents. So, yeah, I guess an interesting side effect either way. Yeah,
Speaker #2
I would agree with Will that, you know, the differing opinions was. initially going to this facility that I had mentioned. But since then, I agree with Will. So I also have a brother who's in Houston. He's only, what, three hours away from my sister. But again, she's primary caregiver. We dialogue a lot more now. I feel like we are getting closer. You know, when your kids are close with your siblings and then you go off and you have your own lives and everybody raises their kids different and you just realize how different are from siblings. You know, and then you have to like rebuild relationships as adults. You have to like, you know, come back together and go, oh, okay, let's, let's try to be friends again. You know, it's really different, but yeah, I've noticed us getting closer in the last couple of years and, and there's a lot more dialogue. And I think, you know, my brother and I are both extremely. conscious of what my sister's doing. And, you know, she takes that from my mom. She's very proud and wants to be that person. And, and it's, it's hard to step in and say, well, let me do something now, or let me take over. I think we're getting better at saying, Hey, you need to go on vacation. One of us is going to be there. If I need to fly down there and be there for the long weekend, or if it needs to be a week, give me some time. I'll figure it out. My brother and his wife has stayed with my mom so it's like trying to allow my sister some of that space. And I think the other thing, which both of you have contributed, contributed to my life of being more open and, uh, you know, being more mindful, I'm trying to infect my siblings with that. And, and because I just will talk about anything with them, which I didn't used to do 10 years ago. I, I didn't talk to anybody about anything. I. I was told a lot of times I held my cards close to my chest, but now it's like, I don't want people to go through things I've gone through or to suffer or to feel like you're alone. So I talk to my siblings a lot about a lot of things and now they're finally starting to open up themselves. And I think that's one big positive I've seen in my sister is she's finally asking for help. And she's finally saying, Hey, I need this, or I need to get away for a weekend or, you know, Hey, I I like to joke with her. Do you need some gas money? It's like. you know here she deserves it you know it's like hey here's a here's a little christmas bonus or something i can't be there go go pamper yourself go buy yourself something nice from me because i don't know what else to do you know so it's like you try to do what you can but i i agree with will that it does your four come together because it takes it takes a village just like with young kids you need help and support and you can't you can't do it alone and the primary caregiver is usually the one who takes the brunt of the parental dissatisfaction or whoever, whether it's a husband and spouse, whoever's taking care of that person who's struggling, you know, they, they're the ones that really get dumped on. So we have to look out for those, those individuals. We have to look out for those people.
Speaker #1
What I found interesting, what you just said is that, you know, we're all siblings, but we have different ways of raising our kids, right? You don't really realize how different you are until or you see different parenting ways. And man, I was a good parent until I became one. I remember telling my sister how she was doing such a bad job of parenting and I didn't even have kids yet. I have this shirt that says, I was a good parent too before I had kids or something to that effect. And man, the flip side of that though, so we've all got our own kids. We've got our own personalities, but we've got our own kids. I've got my kids. My sisters have their kids. But we all have this one set of parents. And so we're all going to have differing opinions for what we're doing with these two people, but perhaps fewer, perhaps one. But it's not different kids. It's not different parents. It's the same parents. So those different opinions on how we should be taking care of them definitely comes into play. And yes, we may get closer, but we have to be communicating. Like you said, David, you have to be talking more often. Will, you said the same thing. I think you have to open up the lines of communication so that you're doing what's best for your parents and you're doing what they would want, right? Not what you would want. Although there are going to be times when what you want is probably better for them than what they want. like you've already talked about david as well all right well let's let's talk to uh the the second act here well so we've started dividing our episode into three acts so let's go into the you know the obstacle and the villains here i mean we're already feeling it already oh yeah the emotional strain of this like the you know the
Speaker #0
the guilt the frustration the the new you know level of emotional intelligence that's kind of needed as you go down this path you know it's like i think I think is also part of this as well. you know, and also witnessing our parents in decline. I mean, it could also trigger some like grief or anxiety, you know, about the future. You talk about anticipatory grief earlier. So like, why don't we like talk on an individual or as an individual basis of like what, what the feelings are so far as we kind of go down this path with them.
Speaker #1
I mentioned this before, right? I went to Australia to help with my parents. and yeah there was a great there was a great level of sadness in the very fact that I have to be there. I mean, I want to be there, but the very fact that I had to be there, they didn't ask for it. I want to be abundantly clear that my parents are still... very proud and they're amazing people. They didn't ask for it. My siblings and I talked, hey, maybe they need some help. And my brother lives in Australia, so he was going to be there, but not for the whole trip. So I went to Sydney and to Brisbane with them. Anyhow, the fact that I had to be there was a sadness, right? Like David already mentioned, you've kind of seen your parents as these invincible people, and now here they are. needing your help to go up and downstairs or needing your help to put a bag up in the overhead in the airplane, these kinds of things, which ironically, in the airport, I'm the one who fucked that up. I left my bag in security. Meanwhile, my parents were, they were still on top of things and they didn't forget anything. I'm the one who left it. But yeah, there's a sadness there. There's a guilt in that, hey, did I do enough growing up? to help my parents? Was I a pain? Was I a burden to them? And then the flip side of that, there's a frustration like, hey, mom and dad, I know you as the mom and dad that I grew up with. Why can't you do this? Why aren't you understanding what I'm saying? Why aren't you understanding what I'm doing? Why aren't you understanding why I'm doing X, Y, or Z? Which, you know, that frustration leads to more guilt. You're like, why the f**k? fuck am I getting frustrated with my parents who are just being human? They're aging. And here I am, you know, I'm not young, but I'm not old. And I still have my strength. I still have my mental capacities. And they do too, to some extent, but I'm getting frustrated with them. So there's this, it's this weird cycle, like frustration, sadness, anger, guilt, and it's just like constant. That's one of the, or I guess several of the emotional challenges that I've had in the very microscopic experience I've had of caring for my parents. Again, I'm geographically separated from them. So the one experience that I had to take care of them thus far was a trip to Australia that was 12 days. So I can only imagine those who are there as full-time primary caretakers, caregivers, the emotional challenges that they face there.
Speaker #0
yeah that's my experience with that i've really seen my dad in a new way in a different way and understand them really in in a different way and i think like me uh trying to slow the pace of my life down trying to you know be more mindful and and be more present and be more patient like i'm uh um i've realized along like probably like in the last 15 years like especially my dad it's like you know this is who he is he's done the best he could with where he came from and his father and his his coaching his uncles and stuff like that um and uh i've just really grown in greater appreciation for my dad you know for who he is and what he does and what he's done for me and you know you know my dad's he he i i don't i don't know what it is he's not very you know uh i wouldn't say he's very high eq you know what i mean he's he he gets easily frustrated and kind of throws tantrum, it seems like, all the time. which is just like daunting to me, you know, and watching your father do that. But like, but he's there and he's, he's, and he cares and he, and he, and he really tries to help in the way that he can help or the way that he wants to help. And it's been, it's just, it's just, you know, it's my dad. I mean, it's my dad and the older he's getting and. As the years go by and the years come to an end, I'm just working with a greater sense of patience and acceptance and just trying to, you know, again, watch the ballgames with them or, you know, help them in some way. We're always the one when I'm home, like, running to the store, running to, you know, for whatever, and I just go on trips with them, you know, whatever it is. And my little brother is going to—my dad used to golf forever. Now he can't golf anymore because his back's like a real mess. And he's going to go out. a couple times a week and just do nine holes and let my dad drive the cart and my brother go hit some golf balls you know what i mean so it's like uh it's and my mom and my mom and i my mom hasn't my mom and i have been always very close uh my relationship to her has become one of more patience and understanding and and and even you know and more kindness if you will even even though they can really frustrate the fuck out of me. For real, oh my god. but that's just me i think it's like that's one thing i think it's important for people to realize or to to hopefully as you maybe in the middle of it now or maybe you're 10 years away uh is just like uh meet them where they're at like express more patience uh with them uh listen more than you speak and Yeah, it's just, it's an interesting slope that we're on. And it's very slow and it's very gradual for me. And, you know, I'm just trying to spend as much, the quality time, I think, is what it is. Like, how can you spend more quality time with them and based on where they are, what their needs are, and what they're able to do, whether that's physically or cognitively.
Speaker #2
I think the best way I can, like, explain it. It's almost like the stages of grief. It's like you're pissed off and then you're in denial. And I remember initially when I started seeing this in my mother, as I mentioned earlier in the conversation, about almost not recognizing her. My dad, again, my dad died. I was 16. My sister was 13. And for me, it's like my mom's from Spain. She's still, you know, she understands English. like nobody's business, but she doesn't get very well. You know, she never got to that point, but to see someone, you know, be left with two kids in school and just still make it happen and, and not have either of us go off the deep end. I, you know, I thought she was capable of anything. You know, we, we used to, she, she, we traveled back to Spain when my cousin got married in like 1990 and got through all these airports and Now, my mom, I can't even get her to travel with me. It's like, I will take you. I will escort you. And again, I remember thinking, you know, who are you? It's like, when did you become chicken little? And for me to even like think that and verbalize that to my sister. Now I feel like an asshole. Like, why am I, why am I saying not nice things about my mother? I love my mother. She's an amazing woman. She's a little old lady now. You know, she's not this woman. who I remember when I was a teenager and I was an asshole. I was went off the deep end. I was angry young man. My dad died. Didn't we had a terrible relationship, which I didn't get resolved. And I was not great to your point, John. I was like, man, I've wronged her, you know, more times than she's ever going to wrong me, no matter what she does in her elderly stage. You know, it's like, so you start thinking about those things and, you know, you can't go change any of it, but you try to do better now. And I think one thing that Will was talking about is you have to be more present and more patient. And I think a big lesson for my wife and I, again, because her mother is a lot more advanced, it's made us open our eyes to our life and where we are in our life. You know, we're both in our mid to early 50s. We're starting to plan for this because we don't want our kids to have to worry or struggle and not so much just planning, but also having open conversations with them. Like, hey, look, this could happen. This may not happen. Here's what we want. Here's what we're planning for. Here's because so many of these conversations don't happen till later. And again, I remember getting frustrated with my mom. You don't have a will. You don't have this. You need a power of attorney. What is your death directive? What is your? You know, how do you want to be buried? I remember when she told me she wanted to be cremated, it freaked me out. I'm like, what, what, what? You know, and, and I was like, well, wait a minute, that's her body, not mine. And so I remember asking my siblings, do you guys know this? Do you? And so, yeah, I have these regrets of getting frustrated with her or getting angry or having all these strong emotions to what she wants or how she's living her life. And now I've gotten to a place where. I can just sit there and have a cup of coffee with her. And if she asks me two times over how my son's doing or how the kids are doing, it's fine. I'm just going to answer her and enjoy that time because it's.
Speaker #0
you know, it's fleeting. You know, she's 85 and hopefully she has another five or 10 more years, but you never know. And it's like, would I rather have her be gone tomorrow or have her ask me 10 more times about my kids and have that cup of coffee a hundred percent? Because, you know, losing my dad at 16, I wish I had that one more time to have a conversation with him. I don't want to have that same feeling with my mom. And so I've been so much more present with her and and patient and Yeah, it's hard to push those feelings away because we get stuck in our own. Again, it's changing our paradigm. It's what we think our parents, who they are, what they want, what they should do. And you have to get to that place to be open, to listen to them, make good decisions, but just to be able to be present and just tell them you love them. I call my mom once a week because she doesn't need me to call her every day. I call her once a week. We have a nice conversation. Sometimes it's... 15 minutes, sometimes it's five minutes, but she always thanks me so much for calling her, you know, at the end of the phone call. And that's all she just wants to feel loved. Yeah.
Speaker #1
And that's a, you know, another thing my parents said is, is stay in touch. Um, you know, they've got, they've got the three sisters that live at home, but they've got myself who lives in Colorado. They live in Louisiana. And then my younger brother who lives in Brisbane, um, and, and he's really good at staying in touch, but yeah, you know, that means a lot to parents. And I can see that. As a father now, as a parent myself, I think about, okay, well, eventually my kids are going to move away. And are they going to make a point to stay in touch with me? Which brings me to my next point is like, okay, we're talking about our elderly parents. What about when we are the elderly parents? And that doesn't necessarily mean 30 years down the road. It could mean right now, right? Like I, uh, my, uh. Let's see. Paternal grandfather died very young. I want to say like 56 years old. So not old at all, especially in today's day and age. But I could drop dead walking down the street. Ideally, I won't, but I could. And then what am I doing for my parents? Or sorry, not my parents, my children. What am I doing to ensure that they are taken care of? Right? You talked about, David, you talked about a will. My mom, what did she say? She said, Every parent should have a will. Don't leave this earth without one. If you do, you ought to be ashamed. And I thought, I was like, right on, mom, right on. And then in the military, as a 19-year-old, I had to write a will, my own will as a 19-year-old, which was very grounding. You're like, oh, what am I doing? And what am I willing? I'm willing, what, my one pair of tennis shoes or something? There's not a whole lot. for me to leave in my will. But I've had a will since I was 19 years old, but how many of us do not? How many of us think that we're invincible? And then for those of us who are children, kind of coming back to the whole point of this conversation is how many of our parents don't have wills? How many of them don't have those directives? And those are conversations that we need to have, right? We need to have these open, difficult... crucial conversations, right? The financial concerns, end of life planning, medical directives, wills, you know, where and how do they want to be buried, right? David, you talked about your mom wanting to be cremated. My parents did originally. Now they're getting buried and they've got their lots picked out. They know exactly what kind of casket they're going to be in, which I tell you, when they're sending me the place that they're going to be buried and they're like, this is what our casket, I'm like, whoa, I'm not ready for this. But But it's important that we have to have those uncomfortable conversations, even if we are, whoa, not ready for it. Guess what? They have to be had. So, sorry, I didn't really have a point there besides just- No,
Speaker #2
no, no. I mean, that's part of this discussion that we need to have is the financial concerns and kind of end of life. I mean, do they go into a care facility? Do they They stay in the house. You get help, you know, to come in and out. you know, to take care of them. And that's one thing that we've been doing with them. It's like, we're for now, like they're staying in the house, you know, that the, that we've, that they've been in for 50, 47 years or something like that. You know? Um, and, uh, you know, I come, we've come up with some planning, my brothers and I, it's like, you know, get them, um, you know, get them, we had this, I have this house person that this person that comes and clean the house. And I was like, well, have her come in twice a week or like, you know, like just get. get in the house even more often, you know, maybe she can help do the laundry and stuff like that. So, um, you know, just, um, You know, they've been really good, my parents and my dad mainly, with like, you know, their medical insurance and, you know, like wills and stuff like that. They've been really good with that. I'm not actually sure of, you know, burial and caskets at this point. You know, it's like just another conversation I don't want to have, but need to have, you know, you know, for sure. They gave my brother power of attorney because he's the oldest, you know, for what they needed, what what's coming next, you know, and where they are right now. Um, but, uh, anything else on that, like financial end of life, David, anything, John, you have some notes here as well.
Speaker #1
Yeah, I've got, you know, sorry, David, one more thing to jump on there is that we're talking about all this as responsibilities on us as children taking care of our elderly parents, but what falls upon them for us as well, right? They have to have the will, they have to decide where they're going to be buried. um what do they need to do in their last 5, 10, 15, 20 years that they're here to ensure that their parental responsibilities continue to be filled, right? Like, as a parent, you still want to take care of your children, even as you are much older. So, you know, what can they do, right? The will, letting us know what their last desires are, their directives are. Having those conversations with us, right? Maybe we aren't mature enough to have those conversations. Rather, that's not quite what I want to say. Maybe we aren't mature enough to start those conversations. Maybe it's upon them to start it with us. You know, what kind of mess are we as children going to have to clean up, right? And I mean, that comes metaphorically. What messes are we going to have to clean up? Administrative. financial, but then literal as well, right? My mom, she texted me, she said, downsize, downsize, declutter your closets, clean up your house. Now that's going to release or ease the burden later. Don't leave the mess for your children. I thought that was interesting that she said that, but I was like, oh yeah, some of this does. Still as elderly parents, if they still have their wits about them, they still have responsibilities. Um, so just a interesting side, side note there, but yeah, the, the financial piece, the administrative piece, we have to have those open, uh, end of life planning conversations, uh, from both sides.
Speaker #2
Yeah. Yeah. Um, good. And David, anything on that front? Yeah,
Speaker #0
no, I mean, that, that's, it's a hard thing because I think like the prior generations, our, our parents' generation, I mean, think about us. nobody really teaches you about money in high school. They don't, they need to have classes teaching us how to balance checkbooks and teaching us about money. It's like, you know, we, you kind of learn what you learn on your own. I don't know that our parents had a lot of financial training. It's like even exercising. They, they never exercised probably when they were younger, they smoke and drank and had a good time, you know, but I mean, it's like, if you've never had those conversations or if they don't know, you know, it may shift the response. So you may shift to us. Right. To help them. Because I, I talked to a lot of friends who are going through this with their parents and, and it is surprising how many people don't have a will in place. But even beyond that, it's like, you know, anymore with, you know, somebody goes in and they're get put on a ventilator or whatever, you know, have a, do not resuscitate. You know, there's so many, you lose so much control when somebody becomes debilitated, you know, when somebody. has a full-blown dementia or Alzheimer's, you know, you lose control of their estate, you lose control of their finances if you don't have these things in place. So that definitely needs to happen. But then also you've seen when someone passes away and all the kids or the family members start fighting over the estate or I want grandma's China or I want that jacket. I mean, if there are things that sentimental, it's okay to have those conversations with your family to say, hey, you know, what do you want? What do I want? Okay. Hey, mom, or hey, dad, this is Are you cool with this? Cause what if they say, no, I want that to go to the grandkid or I don't want any of you to have it. Cause you're all, we're bad kids or, you know, I want to donate. I mean, you know, some people want their estate completely donated, but they don't realize that if they don't put that in writing, it's not going to happen. People are going to fight or they're going to be getting into disagreement. So I think, yeah, communication is a, is a big deal. And I think some parents maybe don't know how to have that conversation or they, they don't want. to start that dialogue because the kids may have been fighting or whatever but i mean it's man i don't know as much as you can be open about this stuff it it takes a huge burden off the future because you're right it's having to clean up afterwards or clutter or leftovers or you know whatever whatever it could be even taxes right
Speaker #1
Like the taxes on the estate, the taxes on inheriting a house. Those need to be conversations. Hey, do you want the house? Is it a burden you're prepared to take on? Oh, and maybe you should talk to an estate planner. Say, okay, well, if I were to die tomorrow and this house was to go to my children, kind of initially you're like, oh, I'm giving them something, but maybe it's a burden. Maybe it's a burden they're not prepared to handle financially, not just mentally or emotionally, but financially. So I think those are some conversations that need to be had in that regard as well. And I'll be honest, my dad is a planner to the nth degree. I mean, that's probably where I get mine from. But he's done a tremendous job in planning for this. I hope that it's still 10, 15, 20 years down the road. But he has definitely communicated a lot to us about his desires. He designed the house that my parents live in. He's an architect and the house is beautiful, very different from your traditional house. It's an architect's house. And there's questions like, okay, well, who's this house going to go to? As important as the house is, as a, you know... tremendous memory for having him design it and having him buy the piece of land that it was on and clear the lot and build a foundation and build a house and then live in it. The number of memories that we have in that house, are we still prepared to take it on? So, um, yeah, there's definitely a lot of, a lot of things that we don't think about taking into account that we need to.
Speaker #2
Yeah. And I need to have some conversation with, with my family around certain things. It's just like little things, like instead of I don't know. My brothers can be interesting and I can see it almost be like a free-for-all in some ways if it's not kind of written down or pinned down, you know, and I'd rather, and like, you know, that's what I don't want my relationship to be with my brothers after my parents are no longer with us is fighting over shit and then like being resentful around that stuff. And then like, that's our relationship. Do you know what I mean? So like, I think it's what you were saying earlier, David, is clean it up now. Even though like whatever that is, uh, instead of just hoping that it's in the will or something like that. So that, that's a really good point.
Speaker #1
I just added to my little to-do list. That's off the, off the side of the screen here. Update your will. Like the last time I updated it, I wasn't, I was still in the military. So that's five plus years ago. And, and, you know, I've gotten more things since then. And, uh, yeah. Well, I've had a new kid since then. Yeah.
Speaker #2
Yeah.
Speaker #0
No, I was just going to chime in real quick and say, you know, the first. conversations I had with my mom about a will is she's like, well, if I, you know, if I start talking about my will, I'm going to die. Like, like a thought process of she didn't want to talk about it, you know, because then she's talking about her demise. It's like, well, you know, you finally get them to that place where it's like, this is, you want to do something for us as your kids. This is something that would be amazing for us because it, it's not. you know, there's not going to be a bunch of issues after the fact. So I, and I think that happens with a lot of people. They'd rather not talk about it or they don't want to talk about death or they don't want to talk about, and that is kind of prevalent in the United States. There's a lot of cultures that are more open about death and don't look at it the same way, but there are conversations that do need to happen because it takes a massive amount of stress off the family. You know, the, the, the death is, is bad enough. Losing a loved one is bad enough. Then you're having to deal with a complex, not even a complex estate, just everything that has to come afterwards that's a lot that's too much for some people to handle and it it just yeah take care of it now just like will said because yeah it will it will add so much peace to everybody's life and especially their loved one they wouldn't want you to be fighting after they're gone yeah exactly i want to stay close with my brothers and not be like oh my god like oh you got this instead of me or something like that or you took this you
Speaker #2
know whatever and it's just like that's not that's not what my parents when they're no longer here would want. you know i think that's maybe that's another thing to think about is like you know honor you know honor the family unit like keep the connection alive and how do you you know within you know this end of life experience that everyone is going to go through whether it's going to be a slow decline or whether it's going to you know happen really fast i mean it's like if you have time to create the conversation and necessary conversation around it so it's like as easy as a transition could possibly be then I think that path would be the best served, you know, to do it that way.
Speaker #1
I want to bring up something that we've kind of alluded to tangentially, you know, we talk about when our parents are gone or when they're soon to be gone. And I referenced this book earlier, Being Mortal. And some of the things that are covered in this book, Being Mortal, are prioritizing prolonging life over quality of life. And I know that's something that as children, we want our parents to live as long as they can, right? We want to prolong their life because we don't want to lose them. But that could be selfish on our part. It's just like being a pet owner, right? Sometimes we prolong the pet's life because, hey, we don't want to lose the pet, but really it's harder on us to let the pet go. Well, sometimes it's harder on us to let our parents go. I don't want my parents to go. Am I prioritizing the wrong thing? Am I prioritizing the prolonging of their life over the quality of life? And I want to make sure that as a child, I'm prioritizing their quality of life over that. The other side is, like in that book, is we don't talk about aging. We talk about it like a condition, right? Like, oh, you call it the age virus, right? Like you're aging. But we all do it, right? Modern society with medicine, with all the technological advances, we treat aging as a problem to solve. And Will and I, we've talked about, what's that guy's name that's right now, he's trying not to die. Brian Johnson. Brian Johnson, yeah. Interesting episode, interesting individual. But aging is something that we're all going to, it's going to happen to all of us, right? And aging is not a problem that needs to be solved, but it's a stage of life that needs to be supported. And that's something that we need to understand. And then lastly, and this is a piece that we've talked about quite a bit, in the book, it talks about conversations that we avoid. So specifically, you know, talking to our parents about their condition. Like, do you understand your condition? What is your understanding of your condition? And I say condition, it's aging, but truly, where are you mentally, physically, emotionally? What are your goals? Yes, you're towards the latter part of your life, but what are your goals? What can I help you to still attain with your mental and physical capacities that they're at? What are your goals if your health worsens? And then what are you willing to sacrifice or not? And then last thing. that he talks about in the book is what does a good day look like for you in this, in this time, in, in your current state? Uh, I think those are, yeah. So the book being mortal, uh, phenomenal book, definitely tied to what we're talking about here. And some of the conversations that we have to have with our parents are covered in that book. So check it out.
Speaker #2
Yeah. I mean, I think we've done a pretty good job here, gentlemen, you know, with this, like, I don't know. I mean, we're, We're coming up well over.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Oh,
Speaker #2
wow. Yeah. Yeah. I know. Exactly. I've been watching that time. Um, but, uh, I know. Right. Um, but thanks guys. Thank you gentlemen. What have you have closing reflections from your parents? Like staying active, stay curious, laugh, right. You know?
Speaker #1
Yeah. So man, uh, one thing my parents do still, uh, is they play Wordle. Uh, I don't know if you guys are familiar with Wordle, but, uh, basically it's just a, it's kind of a word game as the name implies. They play it and I play it with them on occasion. I need to play that with them more regularly. Uh, keeping passion alive, uh, whatever that might look like. Uh, you know, there's, there's a reason that we're here. And part of that is having a passion, whether that's a physical passion, intimacy, or a passion that you're pursuing in your life. Like my dad has been a cyclist as long as I can remember my whole life, even longer than that. Um, and then, like I said, staying in touch with your children, I think, uh, and, and a lot of that falls upon us as the children is, uh, we've got to, we've got to. stay in touch with them. So I think those are just the last couple of things I want to make sure we touched on again.
Speaker #2
What I'll say also is like, get the family together, like get more of your family together. That's one thing I've been very blessed with, with this reunion that is like this year was the 79th year, which is incredible that a 78th year this year of this reunion. But it's like, it's a celebration of family. It's remembrance of family, the members that have passed, you know? And it just, there's something about if you're able to do that. or make it happen. You can be that person in your family, whoever's listening, to get your family together as often as you possibly can because those are memories that you're always going to be able to take with you and have.
Speaker #1
Yeah. So I giggled there, not because you were wrong. I giggled there because, um, I've got my three young kids, eight, six, and four. And you know, when they're fighting as young kids do, I mean, old kids do too, but fighting like young kids do about the most trivial thing in the world. I always tell them, Hey, one day family is going to be everything to you. Love your sister. Love your brother. Love your parents. Love your. cousins. Because one day they're not going to be there. And I think that's what this show is all about. This particular episode is one day, some people that we love very dearly, namely our parents in this particular episode are not going to be here. And what can we do to ease that for them and then take care of ourselves at the same time?
Speaker #0
Yeah, no, agreed. I think, you know, this, this is something that a lot of people our age are dealing with and. You know, we get done with this and then we're starting with our own adventure, you know, our own experience with our kids and, you know, taking these little tidbits we put out there. I mean, this is just scratching the surface. You know, you get into the cost of coverage and care and short-term care and different things in home care for, you know, there's so many other places we can go. But I think just talking about this subject, which a lot of men don't do, you talk about. Our sisters and our mothers, they're the caregivers. Well, men aren't talking about this. And whether we're suffering with guilt or depression or the fear of losing our parents, you know, it's okay to talk about this stuff. But it's also, we need to prepare ourselves and our kids, do a better job maybe than our parents prepared us. You know, when you know better, you do better. So if we can keep building on this and, again, help our kids to understand. the process and, and what we're going through with our parents. When, when we get there, they're, they're going to do better for us and hopefully we can do better for them. But I mean, we're talking about longevity in life. You know, a lot of these studies about long lives, one of the aspects is your relationships, you know, socializing, having strong relationships with your friends and your family. It's like, we'll say and get together. Yes. Get together with your family, get together with your friends that, you know, don't. If you don't put on the calendar, it's not going to happen, you know, and so, you know, you keep saying, oh, yeah, we're going to do that someday. You know, do it tomorrow. Do it next week. Do it next month. Don't put those things off. I mean, that's that's that is the spice of life. You know, money doesn't make you happy. It might give you more choices, but really, it's just about people and spending time together. And, you know, we do a little toast with all of our grown kids, our adult kids. Now they're all young adults and we always. You know, we always raise a glass and we say it in Spanish. It's a la vida rica, it's the rich life. And I always tell them it has nothing to do with money. It's that experience. It's us being together. That's the rich life. So, you know, just, yeah, be in the moment.
Speaker #1
I tell my eight-year-old that she's obsessed with Taylor Swift, which is funny because my son's name is Taylor. And he keeps thinking, he's like, well, where's my Swift? I'm like, no, that's not what's going on here. Anyhow. I asked my daughter, I said, which one would you rather be? Would you rather be rich or would you rather be famous? And she said, I want to be famous like Taylor Swift. I said, well, Taylor Swift is famous and rich. And she said, okay, well then I want to be rich. I said, well, you are rich. And she said, no, I'm not. I said, yeah, you are. You have family who loves you, family who loves you. And that's, I tell you, there's no riches like that. Having family and friends. And that's the thing, friends, what is it? friends or the family that you choose, you brothers are my family. I consider you a family and I consider some of my other closest friends as family. Um, and, and being, uh, staying close to them, staying in touch with them. Uh, there's no other riches like that. So I love that you finished with that, David.
Speaker #2
Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #1
I think that's a, that's a wrap fellas.
Speaker #2
Awesome guys. Uh, let's just do one breath to close. Exhale out. One big giant inhale. Fill it up. A little more, a little more. And let it go. Awesome. Well, there we have it. Thank you, everybody, for listening. Thanks for checking us out. John, Dave, David, great to have you back on the show. John, I would love to see you. And, hey, leave some comments. Subscribe, support. Hey. Just talking mindfulness. Share it on your social. Let us know what you can, yeah, go ahead.
Speaker #1
I think we'd all be remiss if we didn't say thanks to our moms and dads. Yeah,
Speaker #2
exactly. Thanks,
Speaker #1
y'all. Thanks for our listeners. Thanks to mom and dad for listening. Thanks to my mom and dad from me for contributing to today's episode. So love you guys. Love you, David, Will. Love you, mom and dad. See you next time. Take care.
Speaker #2
Later. Thanks, everybody. Peace, peace. Thank you.
Speaker #1
Thank you for joining us today. We hope you walk away with some new tools and insights to guide you on your life journey. New episodes are being published every week, so please join us again for some meaningful discussion. For more information, please check out mentalkingmindfulness.com.

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