Leçon de musique : Alexandre Desplat et Guillermo del Toro - épisode 2 | Musique de film : une histoire d'inspiration

Description

Au Festival de Cannes 2025, la Leçon de musique Sacem célébrait un binôme compositeur-cinéaste emblématique, le français Alexandre Desplat et le mexicain Guillermo del Toro. A l'occasion de la sortie de Frankenstein, troisième acte de leur aventure partagée, retrouvez cette rencontre, animée par Stéphane Lerouge.
Ils nous racontent comment la musique doit trouver des équivalences à des matières comme l'eau (The Shape of water) ou le bois (Pinocchio), comment elle doit révéler la part d'humanité des monstres, fil rouge du cinéma selon del Toro.

Leur rencontre, en 2017, c'est un coup de foudre amical et professionnel, soudé par l'éclatante réussite de La Forme de l'eau, fable humaniste

qui vaut au compositeur son second Oscar. Ce sera ensuite une relecture originale de Pinocchio, traité en conte musical, et, en 2025, un Frankenstein très lyrique, où le monstre est moins la créature que son créateur.

Parallèlement aux collaborations avec Wes Anderson, Stephen Frears, George Clooney ou Roman Polanski, “l'axe del Toro” tient une place singulière dans le parcours d'Alexandre Desplat. Lequel souligne souvent que chaque cinéaste possède son propre fonctionnement, son propre rapport à la musique. Alors précisément, quel est le mode d'emploi de Guillermo del Toro ?

Dans un flm d'animation en stop-motion avec chansons, celles-ci sont évidemment enregistrées en amont de l'animation. Dans quelle mesure le fait de disposer de la musique au moment du tournage infuence-t-il la mise en scène ?

Pour le fils disparu de Gepetto, Carlo, Alexandre a écrit un thème profond et naïf à la fois, qui semble déjà appartenir à la mémoire collective, thème dont il va nous jouer les premières mesures au piano.

Par Stéphane Lerouge.

Crédits musicaux :

Philomena (main title) - Musique composée et dirigée par Alexandre Desplat, Editions Galiléa Music

Better tomorrows, par Ewan McGregor - Alexandre Desplat / Robin Katz)

Ciao papa, par Gregory Mann - (Alexandre Desplat / Robin Katz-Guillermo del Toro)

Going to town

Carlo's Theme, Extraits de Pinocchio - Musique composée et dirigée par Alexandre Desplat, Editions Maisie Beats / Galiléa Music / Maisie Anthems

Frankenstein (The Castle) - Musique composée et dirigée par Alexandre Desplat, Editions Galiléa Music

Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Musique
Speaker #1
The great interviews of the Sacem museum with Stéphane Lerouge.
Speaker #2
Les grands entretiens du musée de la Sacem avec Stéphane Lerouge Musique
Speaker #3
At the Cannes Festival 2025,
Speaker #4
At the Cannes Festival 2025, the Leçon de Musique SACEM celebrated a emblematic composer-cinema composer duo,
Speaker #3
the SACEM music lesson celebrated a emblematic composer-cinema composer, the French Alexandre Desplat and the Mexican Guillermo del Toro.
Speaker #4
the French Alexandre Desplat and the Mexican Guillermo del Toro.
Speaker #3
Their meeting in 2017 is a friendly touch.
Speaker #4
Their meeting in 2017 is a friendly and professional blow,
Speaker #3
and professional, welded by the striking success of the form of the humanist fable water which is worth to the composer his second oscar.
Speaker #4
welded by the striking success of La Forme de l'eau, a humanist fable that deserves the composer his second Oscar. It will then be an original rereading of Pinocchio,
Speaker #3
It will then be an original rereading of Pinocchio,
Speaker #4
treated as a musical tale,
Speaker #3
treated as a musical tale and in 2021,
Speaker #4
and in 2025,
Speaker #3
a very lyrical Frankenstein where the monster is less the creature than its creator.
Speaker #4
a very lyrical Frankenstein, where the monster is less the creature than its creator.
Speaker #3
In parallel with the collaborations with Wes Anderson,
Speaker #4
In parallel with the collaborations with Wes Anderson, Stephen Frears,
Speaker #3
Stephen Frears, George Clooney or Roman Polanski,
Speaker #4
George Clooney or Roman Polanski, the axis of El Toro holds a singular place in Alexandre Desplat's career,
Speaker #3
the axis of El Toro holds a singular place in Alexandre Desplat's career, which often emphasizes that each filmmaker has his own functioning,
Speaker #4
which often emphasizes that each filmmaker has his own functioning,
Speaker #3
his own relationship to music.
Speaker #4
his own relationship to music. So,
Speaker #3
So precisely,
Speaker #4
precisely,
Speaker #3
what is Guillermo del Toro's way of working?
Speaker #5
what is Guillermo del Toro's way of working?
Speaker #3
Del Toro.
Speaker #6
I've learned his passion for music and for film music,
Speaker #5
and for film music.
Speaker #6
so it's a great help,
Speaker #5
So it's a great help because when we exchange we have references that we can you know go to.
Speaker #6
because when we exchange, we have references that we can, you know, go to. But
Speaker #5
But
Speaker #6
I think it's his open mind,
Speaker #5
I think it's his open mind as you know he's just open to whatever I would suggest.
Speaker #6
you know, he's just open to whatever I would suggest. If it's right,
Speaker #5
If it's right it's fine,
Speaker #6
it's fine.
Speaker #5
it has to be right.
Speaker #6
It has to be right. Of course,
Speaker #5
Of course if I say shit then it's not good but if I bring a good idea it works and he's always open to.
Speaker #6
if I say shit, it's not good. But if I bring a good idea, it works. and he's always open to change routes.
Speaker #5
to change routes, you know, sometimes he had an idea,
Speaker #6
Sometimes he had an idea,
Speaker #5
oh,
Speaker #6
oh,
Speaker #5
we should do this,
Speaker #6
we should do this,
Speaker #5
that,
Speaker #6
that, and I suggest,
Speaker #5
and I suggest,
Speaker #6
maybe,
Speaker #5
maybe,
Speaker #6
how about we do this,
Speaker #5
how about we do this,
Speaker #6
we do that.
Speaker #5
we do that, and he's always open to,
Speaker #6
And he's always open to... And that's a great,
Speaker #5
and that's a great, great quality,
Speaker #6
great quality because
Speaker #5
because I need to feel that the director has confidence in me,
Speaker #6
I need to feel that the director has confidence in me.
Speaker #5
otherwise it's painful.
Speaker #6
Otherwise, it's painful.
Speaker #7
So,
Speaker #8
So, Guillermo,
Speaker #7
Guillermo, the second act of your collaboration was your adaptation of Carlo Collodi's
Speaker #8
the second act of your collaboration was your adaptation of Carlo Collodi's
Speaker #7
Pinocchio, which is a very original version,
Speaker #8
Pinocchio, which is... A very original version because it's really a film about loss and grief.
Speaker #7
because it's really a film about... Loss and Grief. How did you get the idea of treating it as a musical tale?
Speaker #8
How did you get the idea of treating it as a musical tale?
Speaker #9
It was from the beginning.
Speaker #10
It was from the beginning.
Speaker #9
It started very different and it got mutated when I finally decided on this form.
Speaker #10
It started very different and it got mutated when I finally decided on this form. I knew I wanted
Speaker #9
I knew I wanted Pinocchio to sing to Mussolini,
Speaker #10
Pinocchio to sing to Mussolini.
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
And
Speaker #9
and I think that the clarity of a musical where you can declare...
Speaker #10
I think that the clarity of a musical where you can declare
Speaker #9
The personality or the intentions or the dreams of a character is very,
Speaker #10
The personality or the intentions or the dreams of a character is very,
Speaker #9
very clean.
Speaker #10
very clean.
Speaker #9
It can get you not only through the story,
Speaker #10
It can get you not only through the story,
Speaker #9
but through a lot of unnecessary sort of signification.
Speaker #10
but through a lot of unnecessary sort of signification.
Speaker #9
With the puppet being stop-motion and the actors being stop-motion,
Speaker #10
With the puppet being stop-motion and the actors being stop-motion,
Speaker #9
the way to bring the humanity in all of them was through the singing.
Speaker #10
the way to bring the humanity in all of them was through the singing. And it was constructed very much like a musical.
Speaker #9
And it was constructed very much like a musical. If you see,
Speaker #10
If you see,
Speaker #9
it has a touch of grace at the end when the pine cone falls.
Speaker #10
it has a touch of grace at the end when the pine cone falls.
Speaker #9
It's like a...
Speaker #10
It's like a...
Speaker #9
It's like a punctuation at the end of a symphony.
Speaker #10
It's like a punctuation at the end of a symphony. Same in Pan's Labyrinth,
Speaker #9
Same in Pan's Labyrinth,
Speaker #10
the flower blooming at the end.
Speaker #9
the flower blooming at the end. These are punctuation marks,
Speaker #10
These are punctuation marks, and that,
Speaker #9
and that,
Speaker #10
like Shape of Water,
Speaker #9
like Shape of Water, it declared itself to be a musical.
Speaker #10
it declared itself to be a musical. For example,
Speaker #9
For example, Frankenstein,
Speaker #10
Frankenstein, I never thought.
Speaker #9
I never thought. The movie tells you what it wants to be.
Speaker #10
The movie tells you what it wants to be.
Speaker #9
It really does.
Speaker #10
It really does.
Speaker #9
And I think people think a director's job is to talk.
Speaker #10
And I think people think a director's job is to talk.
Speaker #9
A director's job is to listen a lot also.
Speaker #10
A director's job is to listen a lot also,
Speaker #9
And to collaborators,
Speaker #10
and to collaborators, to the movie itself,
Speaker #9
to the movie itself, to actors.
Speaker #10
to actors.
Speaker #9
So
Speaker #10
So Pinocchio wanted to be that because he's in the theater.
Speaker #9
Pinocchio wanted to be that because he's in the theater. He's in the marionette theater.
Speaker #10
He's in the marionette theater.
Speaker #5
In many movies I try to not be too...
Speaker #6
In many movies I try to not be too close to the period of the film,
Speaker #5
close to the period of the film. But for this one,
Speaker #6
but for this one it seemed just not right to go too far away and write pop songs that would be completely...
Speaker #5
it seemed just not right to go too far away and write pop songs that would be completely disconnected to the time.
Speaker #6
disconnected to the time.
Speaker #5
So I think we decided very early on that it would fit a more
Speaker #6
So I think we decided very early on that it would fit a more
Speaker #5
1920s, 30s kind of orchestration type of melodies.
Speaker #6
1920s, 30s kind of orchestration type of melodies.
Speaker #5
And the challenge was that there were many songs to write.
Speaker #6
And the challenge was that there were many songs to write ahead of time,
Speaker #5
ahead of time many many many many many months or a year before it was covet time we had to sometimes
Speaker #6
many, many, many, many, many months or a year before. It was COVID time, we had to sometimes
Speaker #5
I record from abroad.
Speaker #6
...record from abroad. I remember the little boy who was recording Pinocchio.
Speaker #5
I remember the little boy who was recording Pinocchio.
Speaker #6
He was in his bedroom in London and I was coaching him.
Speaker #5
He was in his bedroom in London and I was coaching him. Christoph Watz was somewhere in Los Angeles.
Speaker #6
Christoph Watz was somewhere in Los Angeles.
Speaker #5
Ewan McGregor was in his garage.
Speaker #6
Ewan McGregor was in his garage.
Speaker #5
But the challenge was mostly artistic,
Speaker #6
But the challenge was... mostly artistic,
Speaker #5
you know,
Speaker #6
to try and have a continuity with all the songs and make the score marry with all these songs and use some of the themes or not.
Speaker #5
to try and have a continuity with all the songs and make the score. marry with all these songs and use some of the themes or not. It was a complex,
Speaker #6
It was a complex, complicated machine.
Speaker #5
complicated machine.
Speaker #11
And you make it right And your heart is bright So let the world know how it goes
Speaker #12
And you make it right, and your heart is right, so let the world know how it goes, open your arms to better tomorrow.
Speaker #11
Open your arms to better Open your arms Open your arms to better
Speaker #12
Open your arms to better tomorrow. To better
Speaker #6
When we started talking about the songs,
Speaker #5
When we started talking about the songs, Guillermo had written some lyrics on the page,
Speaker #6
Guillermo had written some lyrics on the page,
Speaker #5
on the script,
Speaker #6
on the script,
Speaker #5
and it became the kind of blueprint,
Speaker #6
and it became the kind of blueprint,
Speaker #5
the beginning of the writing of the songs,
Speaker #6
the beginning of the writing of the songs,
Speaker #5
and I brought in my old friend,
Speaker #6
and I brought in my old friend.
Speaker #5
yeah,
Speaker #10
cats who I'd written songs with in the past we were talking to Beck the rock star and he was really hard to schedule and I said you know who's always around?
Speaker #5
Katz. who I'd written songs with in the past.
Speaker #9
We were talking to Beck, the rock star, and he was really hard to schedule. And I said, you know who's always around? Me.
Speaker #10
Me So we went at it with the song My Son,
Speaker #9
So we went at it with the song My Son,
Speaker #10
and that was successful,
Speaker #9
and that was successful, and I thought,
Speaker #10
and I thought, oh,
Speaker #9
oh,
Speaker #10
I'm a lyricist.
Speaker #9
I'm a lyricist.
Speaker #10
You are a lyricist.
Speaker #9
You're a lyricist. I'm not.
Speaker #10
I'm not. So,
Speaker #9
So,
Speaker #10
you know,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
Alexander and Katz,
Speaker #9
Alexander and Katz,
Speaker #10
we would discuss the main ideas,
Speaker #9
we would discuss the main ideas, and then they would go away and work on the rest of the songs.
Speaker #10
and then they would go away and work on the rest of the song.
Speaker #8
Ciao,
Speaker #7
Ciao Papa!
Speaker #8
Papa. Could you sing it,
Speaker #7
Could you sing it, the first verse?
Speaker #8
the first verse? No.
Speaker #7
No.
Speaker #8
But you said,
Speaker #7
You said, you accepted.
Speaker #8
you accepted.
Speaker #7
Yeah,
Speaker #8
Yeah,
Speaker #10
but you were serving me ice cream.
Speaker #9
but you were serving me ice cream. I lied.
Speaker #10
I lied.
Speaker #9
I'm not doing it.
Speaker #10
I'm not doing it.
Speaker #7
You're not a real singer.
Speaker #8
You're not a real singer.
Speaker #7
No,
Speaker #9
no.
Speaker #10
No.
Speaker #7
Are you disappointed?
Speaker #8
Are you disappointed?
Speaker #9
Ciao,
Speaker #10
Ciao,
Speaker #9
Papa.
Speaker #10
Papa.
Speaker #9
Mi
Speaker #5
Papa. Voilà.
Speaker #9
Très bien.
Speaker #10
No,
Speaker #9
No, no. Basta. That's it.
Speaker #10
that's it. It's opening.
Speaker #9
It's opening. No, but the spirit of that song was so important because,
Speaker #10
But the spirit of that song was so important because like Frankenstein,
Speaker #9
like Frankenstein,
Speaker #10
for me,
Speaker #9
for me,
Speaker #10
it's a story of fathers and sons.
Speaker #9
it's a story of fathers and sons. And to say farewell was...
Speaker #10
And to say farewell was such a beautiful feeling.
Speaker #9
Such a beautiful feeling and
Speaker #10
And
Speaker #9
I think the song captured it.
Speaker #10
I think the song captured it.
Speaker #8
And father and son is the spine of all your movies.
Speaker #7
And father and son is the spine of all your movies.
Speaker #9
Yes,
Speaker #10
Yes, unfortunately so.
Speaker #9
unfortunately so.
Speaker #0
Ciao Papa,
Speaker #13
Ciao papa,
Speaker #0
mio Papa,
Speaker #13
mio papa
Speaker #0
time has come to say farewell.
Speaker #13
Time has come to say farewell For how long will I go,
Speaker #0
For how long will I go,
Speaker #13
is it far?
Speaker #0
is it far? No one knows,
Speaker #13
No one knows,
Speaker #0
no one can tell.
Speaker #13
no one can tell If I am gone for a long,
Speaker #0
If I am gone for a long, long time,
Speaker #13
long time,
Speaker #0
I'll pack a...
Speaker #13
I'll pack away a fine piece of shine.
Speaker #0
away a fine piece of shine, the sounds of birds jumping with bells,
Speaker #13
The sounds of birds jumping with bells,
Speaker #0
your rings of plums,
Speaker #13
draw rings of plums to bags of shells.
Speaker #0
your bags of shells, the smell of bread,
Speaker #13
The smell of bread,
Speaker #0
a drum of wine,
Speaker #13
a drop of wine,
Speaker #0
your memory,
Speaker #13
your memory,
Speaker #0
father of mine.
Speaker #13
father of mine.
Speaker #0
Farewell, my papa.
Speaker #3
In a stop motion animation film,
Speaker #4
Papa In a stop-motion animation film,
Speaker #3
with songs, these are obviously recorded before the animation.
Speaker #4
with songs, these are obviously recorded before the animation.
Speaker #3
To what extent does having music at the time of shooting influence the staging?
Speaker #9
To what extent does having music at the time of the shooting influence the staging?
Speaker #10
Yeah, the animation is based on the soundtrack first. We record the actors on what is called a scratch track, and the songs,
Speaker #9
Songs, of course,
Speaker #10
of course,
Speaker #9
need to have that emotion.
Speaker #10
need to have that emotion. And I think that's what I value in Alexander,
Speaker #9
And I think that's what I value in Alexander and I have in common with him.
Speaker #10
and I have in common with him.
Speaker #9
There is a thing,
Speaker #10
There is a thing in...
Speaker #9
when I was raised Catholic,
Speaker #10
When I was raised Catholic, it was called a state of grace.
Speaker #9
it was called a state of grace. What it means is,
Speaker #10
What it means is,
Speaker #9
for me,
Speaker #10
for me,
Speaker #9
emotionally,
Speaker #10
emotionally, we have an innocence that allows us to get emotional.
Speaker #9
we have an innocence that allows us to get emotional. I think that a lot of art is meant to be objective and distant,
Speaker #10
I think that a lot of art is meant to be objective and distant, and we share the knowledge that art is emotion.
Speaker #9
and we share the knowledge that art is emotion.
Speaker #10
I'm Mexican,
Speaker #9
I'm Mexican, so I'm extremely emotional,
Speaker #10
so I'm extremely emotional, but Alexander and I share that bond where the meter we use for the final themes and all that is,
Speaker #9
but Alexander and I share that bond where we, the meter we use for the final themes and all that is, I say,
Speaker #10
I say,
Speaker #9
I haven't cried.
Speaker #10
I haven't cried.
Speaker #9
Until I cry in his studio,
Speaker #10
Until I cry in his studio,
Speaker #9
we don't rest.
Speaker #10
we don't rest.
Speaker #9
And I think that's a very open,
Speaker #10
And I think that's a very open, sincere and risky thing to do these days,
Speaker #9
sincere, and risky thing to do these days,
Speaker #10
because I think emotion is the new punk.
Speaker #9
because I think emotion is the new punk. It's something people don't risk,
Speaker #10
It's something people don't risk,
Speaker #9
and we risk it.
Speaker #10
and we risk it.
Speaker #4
For the son of Gepetto,
Speaker #3
For the son of Gepetto, Carlo,
Speaker #4
Carlo, Alexandre wrote a deep and naive theme at the same time,
Speaker #3
Alexandre wrote a deep and naive theme at the same time,
Speaker #4
which already seems to belong to the collective memory,
Speaker #3
which seems to already belong to the collective memory,
Speaker #4
a theme that he will play for us the first measures on the piano.
Speaker #3
a theme he will play for us the first time on the piano.
Speaker #6
The
Speaker #5
The
Speaker #6
theme is original but it seems to be part of the collective memory.
Speaker #5
theme is original but it seems to be part of the collective memory.
Speaker #6
I don't know,
Speaker #5
I don't know,
Speaker #6
I just try to make it accessible I guess.
Speaker #5
I just try to make it accessible I guess and without being
Speaker #6
Without being simplistic and simple,
Speaker #5
simplistic and simple is not the same.
Speaker #6
it's not the same. So simple means that I spend many,
Speaker #5
So simple means that I spend many,
Speaker #6
many hours trying.
Speaker #5
many hours trying.
Speaker #6
Sometimes some themes just come very quickly,
Speaker #5
Sometimes some themes just come very quickly,
Speaker #6
but most of the time,
Speaker #5
but most of the time, it's hard to write a good melody.
Speaker #6
it's hard to write a good melody. It's a lot of work,
Speaker #5
It's a lot of work,
Speaker #6
a lot of tries and tries and tries again and again until you find the right shape,
Speaker #5
a lot of tries and tries and tries again and again until you find the right shape,
Speaker #6
the right chord changes.
Speaker #5
the right chord changes. You sleep with it,
Speaker #6
You sleep with it,
Speaker #5
you wake up with it until you find the right thing.
Speaker #6
you wake up with it, until you find the right thing.
Speaker #5
But when you write a melody,
Speaker #6
But when you write a melody, you want everybody to be able to sing it.
Speaker #5
you want everybody to be able to sing it.
Speaker #6
So it...
Speaker #5
and at the same time it has to fit the character that you're writing a theme for.
Speaker #6
and at the same time it has to fit the character that you're writing a theme for. I remember,
Speaker #5
I don't know if you remember that,
Speaker #6
I don't know if you remember that,
Speaker #5
I wrote the score of a movie called Philomena for Stephen Frears,
Speaker #6
I wrote the score of a movie called Philomena for Stephen Frears, and it's the story of a nurse,
Speaker #5
and it's the story of a nurse,
Speaker #6
the woman was a nurse.
Speaker #5
the woman was a nurse. So a woman who was quite simple and worked with her hands all her life.
Speaker #6
So a woman who was quite simple and who worked with her hands all her life. And so I started writing a theme,
Speaker #5
So I started writing a theme,
Speaker #6
and it couldn't be too sophisticated or too elaborate,
Speaker #5
and it couldn't be too sophisticated or too elaborate, too complex.
Speaker #6
too complex.
Speaker #5
It just didn't work.
Speaker #6
It just didn't work and I thought about her hands,
Speaker #5
And I thought about her hands, that she was working with her hands.
Speaker #6
that she was working with her hands.
Speaker #5
So I tried to find a melody that could just fit in one hand.
Speaker #6
So I tried to find a melody that could just fit in one hand.
Speaker #5
So the fingers are like this on the piano,
Speaker #6
So the fingers are like this on the piano and they don't move,
Speaker #5
and they don't move, it's just this.
Speaker #6
it's just this. And that's a way of being in tune with what is on the screen.
Speaker #5
And that's a way of being in tune with what is on the screen. It's just trying to understand what the character is revealing and what your music can reveal of the character.
Speaker #6
It's just trying to understand what the character is revealing and what your music can reveal of the character.
Speaker #7
You use the word revealing.
Speaker #8
You use the word revealing.
Speaker #7
Guillermo,
Speaker #8
Guillermo,
Speaker #7
you always say that a good composer does not underline,
Speaker #8
you always... say that a good composer does not underline,
Speaker #7
he reveals.
Speaker #8
he reveals.
Speaker #10
Yeah,
Speaker #9
Yeah, I believe that.
Speaker #10
I believe that. I think that,
Speaker #9
I think that,
Speaker #10
I mean,
Speaker #9
I mean,
Speaker #10
it's what in the old days they called Mickey Mouse-ing.
Speaker #9
it's what in the old days they called Mickey Mousing. You don't Mickey Mouse.
Speaker #10
You don't Mickey Mouse.
Speaker #9
You don't pop, you know it is you supplement you propel you de-accelerate when we are working together oftentimes i say i'm gonna give you another an extra beat on this shot and i call the editor right there and this shot at 36 frames or you know 12 or 24 but i also learned to breathe with his music the editing is
Speaker #10
You supplement, you propel, you deaccelerate. When we are working together, oftentimes I say, I'm going to give you an extra beat on this shot. And I call the editor right there and say, this shot had 36 frames, or 12, or 24. But I also learned to breathe with his music. The editing is not only one-sided.
Speaker #9
not only one-sided you know if if we feel that it needs
Speaker #10
If we feel that it needs a moment more,
Speaker #9
A moment more,
Speaker #10
Are we...
Speaker #9
we're going to extend the shot.
Speaker #10
we can extend the shot.
Speaker #9
So
Speaker #10
So
Speaker #9
I'm not underlining,
Speaker #10
I'm not underlining,
Speaker #9
he's not underlining,
Speaker #10
he's not underlining, we're singing together.
Speaker #9
we're singing together. That's the thing,
Speaker #10
That's the thing.
Speaker #9
it's a jazz,
Speaker #10
It's a jazz,
Speaker #9
we are riffing.
Speaker #10
we are riffing.
Speaker #9
As abstract as this sounds,
Speaker #10
As abstract as this sounds,
Speaker #9
I think a good color version is riffing.
Speaker #10
I think a good color version is riffing. piano plays in bright rhythm
Speaker #7
What could you tell us about the score for Frankenstein?
Speaker #8
What could you tell us about the score for Frankenstein?
Speaker #9
We're working on it.
Speaker #10
We're working on it.
Speaker #9
No,
Speaker #10
No,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
you know,
Speaker #9
that is the same with Pinocchio.
Speaker #10
that is the same with Pinocchio.
Speaker #9
It's a thing that was taken by me at a very early age.
Speaker #10
is a thing that I it was taken by me at a very early age so at this point is biography at this point is it's as ingested and part of me as it could be
Speaker #9
So at this point is biography. At this point is... It's as ingested and part of me as it could be. And what I can tell you is when I sat down with Alexander,
Speaker #10
And what I can tell you is when I sat down with Alexander, what we do is break it out in themes.
Speaker #9
what we do is break it out in themes.
Speaker #10
This is the theme for this character,
Speaker #9
This is the theme for this character, this is for this.
Speaker #10
this is for this. Not always sticking to that.
Speaker #9
Not always sticking to that. And then we play with that.
Speaker #10
And then we play with that. That's where we are right now.
Speaker #9
That's where we are right now.
Speaker #5
Yeah,
Speaker #6
Yeah,
Speaker #5
the only thing I could say is that
Speaker #6
the only thing I could say is that
Speaker #5
Guillermo's cinema is very lyrical.
Speaker #6
Guillermo's cinema is very lyrical. and my music is rather lyrical too so
Speaker #5
And my music is rather lyrical too. So
Speaker #6
I think the music of Frankenstein will be something very lyrical and emotional
Speaker #5
I think the music of Frankenstein will be something very lyrical. and you know and emotional. You know, I'm not trying to write horrific music or...
Speaker #6
I'm not trying to write horrific music that's something we can do but we can try something else maybe somebody asked me the other day
Speaker #5
That's something we can do, but we can try something else,
Speaker #9
maybe. Somebody asked me the other day...
Speaker #10
Does it have really scary scenes?
Speaker #9
Does it have really scary scenes?
Speaker #10
For the first time,
Speaker #9
For the first time,
Speaker #10
I consider that.
Speaker #9
I consider that.
Speaker #10
It's an emotional story for me.
Speaker #9
It's an emotional story for me. It's as personal as anything.
Speaker #10
It's as personal as anything.
Speaker #9
I'm asking a question about being a father,
Speaker #10
I'm asking a question about being a father,
Speaker #9
being a son.
Speaker #10
being a son.
Speaker #9
Things that are...
Speaker #10
Things that are...
Speaker #9
I'm not doing a horror movie,
Speaker #10
I'm not doing a horror movie,
Speaker #9
ever.
Speaker #10
ever. I'm not trying to do that.
Speaker #9
I'm not trying to do that. So the same thing with the music.
Speaker #10
So the same thing with the music. We're finding the emotion.
Speaker #9
We're finding the emotion.
Speaker #10
What I can say for me is it's an incredibly emotional movie.
Speaker #9
What I can say for me is it's an incredibly emotional movie. Yeah,
Speaker #10
Yeah,
Speaker #9
I mean,
Speaker #10
I mean,
Speaker #9
I remember the first time I thought
Speaker #10
I remember the first time I thought I was going to avenge the creature was when Marilyn Monroe is coming out on the seven-year itch with Tony Leung.
Speaker #9
I was going to avenge the creature was when Marilyn Monroe is coming out on the seven-year itch with Tony Leung.
Speaker #10
And she says,
Speaker #9
And she says, the creature just needed somebody to like him.
Speaker #10
the creature just needed somebody to like him.
Speaker #9
I fell in love with Marilyn and I fell in love with the creature in that scene at a very early age.
Speaker #10
I fell in love with Marilyn and I fell in love with the creature in that scene at a very early age.
Speaker #9
And I thought,
Speaker #10
And I thought... You know,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
all we have is people that look at people the wrong way.
Speaker #9
all we have is people that look at people the wrong way.
Speaker #10
That's what we have in this world.
Speaker #9
That's what we have in this world.
Speaker #10
You know,
Speaker #9
You know,
Speaker #10
you consider something and you make it real.
Speaker #9
you consider something and you make it real. Monsters,
Speaker #10
Monsters,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
you know,
Speaker #9
to me are the perfect way to speak about this.
Speaker #10
to me are the perfect way to speak about this.

Chapters

Introduction à la collaboration entre Desplat et Del Toro
9sec
Le succès de 'La Forme de l'eau' et ses conséquences
20sec
Création d'une nouvelle version de Pinocchio
46sec
La dynamique de travail entre Del Toro et Desplat
2min
Discussion sur la musique dans le film 'Frankenstein'
8min

Description

Leur rencontre, en 2017, c'est un coup de foudre amical et professionnel, soudé par l'éclatante réussite de La Forme de l'eau, fable humaniste

Par Stéphane Lerouge.

Crédits musicaux :

Philomena (main title) - Musique composée et dirigée par Alexandre Desplat, Editions Galiléa Music

Better tomorrows, par Ewan McGregor - Alexandre Desplat / Robin Katz)

Ciao papa, par Gregory Mann - (Alexandre Desplat / Robin Katz-Guillermo del Toro)

Going to town

Carlo's Theme, Extraits de Pinocchio - Musique composée et dirigée par Alexandre Desplat, Editions Maisie Beats / Galiléa Music / Maisie Anthems

Frankenstein (The Castle) - Musique composée et dirigée par Alexandre Desplat, Editions Galiléa Music

Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Musique
Speaker #1
The great interviews of the Sacem museum with Stéphane Lerouge.
Speaker #2
Les grands entretiens du musée de la Sacem avec Stéphane Lerouge Musique
Speaker #3
At the Cannes Festival 2025,
Speaker #4
At the Cannes Festival 2025, the Leçon de Musique SACEM celebrated a emblematic composer-cinema composer duo,
Speaker #3
the SACEM music lesson celebrated a emblematic composer-cinema composer, the French Alexandre Desplat and the Mexican Guillermo del Toro.
Speaker #4
the French Alexandre Desplat and the Mexican Guillermo del Toro.
Speaker #3
Their meeting in 2017 is a friendly touch.
Speaker #4
Their meeting in 2017 is a friendly and professional blow,
Speaker #3
and professional, welded by the striking success of the form of the humanist fable water which is worth to the composer his second oscar.
Speaker #4
welded by the striking success of La Forme de l'eau, a humanist fable that deserves the composer his second Oscar. It will then be an original rereading of Pinocchio,
Speaker #3
It will then be an original rereading of Pinocchio,
Speaker #4
treated as a musical tale,
Speaker #3
treated as a musical tale and in 2021,
Speaker #4
and in 2025,
Speaker #3
a very lyrical Frankenstein where the monster is less the creature than its creator.
Speaker #4
a very lyrical Frankenstein, where the monster is less the creature than its creator.
Speaker #3
In parallel with the collaborations with Wes Anderson,
Speaker #4
In parallel with the collaborations with Wes Anderson, Stephen Frears,
Speaker #3
Stephen Frears, George Clooney or Roman Polanski,
Speaker #4
George Clooney or Roman Polanski, the axis of El Toro holds a singular place in Alexandre Desplat's career,
Speaker #3
the axis of El Toro holds a singular place in Alexandre Desplat's career, which often emphasizes that each filmmaker has his own functioning,
Speaker #4
which often emphasizes that each filmmaker has his own functioning,
Speaker #3
his own relationship to music.
Speaker #4
his own relationship to music. So,
Speaker #3
So precisely,
Speaker #4
precisely,
Speaker #3
what is Guillermo del Toro's way of working?
Speaker #5
what is Guillermo del Toro's way of working?
Speaker #3
Del Toro.
Speaker #6
I've learned his passion for music and for film music,
Speaker #5
and for film music.
Speaker #6
so it's a great help,
Speaker #5
So it's a great help because when we exchange we have references that we can you know go to.
Speaker #6
because when we exchange, we have references that we can, you know, go to. But
Speaker #5
But
Speaker #6
I think it's his open mind,
Speaker #5
I think it's his open mind as you know he's just open to whatever I would suggest.
Speaker #6
you know, he's just open to whatever I would suggest. If it's right,
Speaker #5
If it's right it's fine,
Speaker #6
it's fine.
Speaker #5
it has to be right.
Speaker #6
It has to be right. Of course,
Speaker #5
Of course if I say shit then it's not good but if I bring a good idea it works and he's always open to.
Speaker #6
if I say shit, it's not good. But if I bring a good idea, it works. and he's always open to change routes.
Speaker #5
to change routes, you know, sometimes he had an idea,
Speaker #6
Sometimes he had an idea,
Speaker #5
oh,
Speaker #6
oh,
Speaker #5
we should do this,
Speaker #6
we should do this,
Speaker #5
that,
Speaker #6
that, and I suggest,
Speaker #5
and I suggest,
Speaker #6
maybe,
Speaker #5
maybe,
Speaker #6
how about we do this,
Speaker #5
how about we do this,
Speaker #6
we do that.
Speaker #5
we do that, and he's always open to,
Speaker #6
And he's always open to... And that's a great,
Speaker #5
and that's a great, great quality,
Speaker #6
great quality because
Speaker #5
because I need to feel that the director has confidence in me,
Speaker #6
I need to feel that the director has confidence in me.
Speaker #5
otherwise it's painful.
Speaker #6
Otherwise, it's painful.
Speaker #7
So,
Speaker #8
So, Guillermo,
Speaker #7
Guillermo, the second act of your collaboration was your adaptation of Carlo Collodi's
Speaker #8
the second act of your collaboration was your adaptation of Carlo Collodi's
Speaker #7
Pinocchio, which is a very original version,
Speaker #8
Pinocchio, which is... A very original version because it's really a film about loss and grief.
Speaker #7
because it's really a film about... Loss and Grief. How did you get the idea of treating it as a musical tale?
Speaker #8
How did you get the idea of treating it as a musical tale?
Speaker #9
It was from the beginning.
Speaker #10
It was from the beginning.
Speaker #9
It started very different and it got mutated when I finally decided on this form.
Speaker #10
It started very different and it got mutated when I finally decided on this form. I knew I wanted
Speaker #9
I knew I wanted Pinocchio to sing to Mussolini,
Speaker #10
Pinocchio to sing to Mussolini.
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
And
Speaker #9
and I think that the clarity of a musical where you can declare...
Speaker #10
I think that the clarity of a musical where you can declare
Speaker #9
The personality or the intentions or the dreams of a character is very,
Speaker #10
The personality or the intentions or the dreams of a character is very,
Speaker #9
very clean.
Speaker #10
very clean.
Speaker #9
It can get you not only through the story,
Speaker #10
It can get you not only through the story,
Speaker #9
but through a lot of unnecessary sort of signification.
Speaker #10
but through a lot of unnecessary sort of signification.
Speaker #9
With the puppet being stop-motion and the actors being stop-motion,
Speaker #10
With the puppet being stop-motion and the actors being stop-motion,
Speaker #9
the way to bring the humanity in all of them was through the singing.
Speaker #10
the way to bring the humanity in all of them was through the singing. And it was constructed very much like a musical.
Speaker #9
And it was constructed very much like a musical. If you see,
Speaker #10
If you see,
Speaker #9
it has a touch of grace at the end when the pine cone falls.
Speaker #10
it has a touch of grace at the end when the pine cone falls.
Speaker #9
It's like a...
Speaker #10
It's like a...
Speaker #9
It's like a punctuation at the end of a symphony.
Speaker #10
It's like a punctuation at the end of a symphony. Same in Pan's Labyrinth,
Speaker #9
Same in Pan's Labyrinth,
Speaker #10
the flower blooming at the end.
Speaker #9
the flower blooming at the end. These are punctuation marks,
Speaker #10
These are punctuation marks, and that,
Speaker #9
and that,
Speaker #10
like Shape of Water,
Speaker #9
like Shape of Water, it declared itself to be a musical.
Speaker #10
it declared itself to be a musical. For example,
Speaker #9
For example, Frankenstein,
Speaker #10
Frankenstein, I never thought.
Speaker #9
I never thought. The movie tells you what it wants to be.
Speaker #10
The movie tells you what it wants to be.
Speaker #9
It really does.
Speaker #10
It really does.
Speaker #9
And I think people think a director's job is to talk.
Speaker #10
And I think people think a director's job is to talk.
Speaker #9
A director's job is to listen a lot also.
Speaker #10
A director's job is to listen a lot also,
Speaker #9
And to collaborators,
Speaker #10
and to collaborators, to the movie itself,
Speaker #9
to the movie itself, to actors.
Speaker #10
to actors.
Speaker #9
So
Speaker #10
So Pinocchio wanted to be that because he's in the theater.
Speaker #9
Pinocchio wanted to be that because he's in the theater. He's in the marionette theater.
Speaker #10
He's in the marionette theater.
Speaker #5
In many movies I try to not be too...
Speaker #6
In many movies I try to not be too close to the period of the film,
Speaker #5
close to the period of the film. But for this one,
Speaker #6
but for this one it seemed just not right to go too far away and write pop songs that would be completely...
Speaker #5
it seemed just not right to go too far away and write pop songs that would be completely disconnected to the time.
Speaker #6
disconnected to the time.
Speaker #5
So I think we decided very early on that it would fit a more
Speaker #6
So I think we decided very early on that it would fit a more
Speaker #5
1920s, 30s kind of orchestration type of melodies.
Speaker #6
1920s, 30s kind of orchestration type of melodies.
Speaker #5
And the challenge was that there were many songs to write.
Speaker #6
And the challenge was that there were many songs to write ahead of time,
Speaker #5
ahead of time many many many many many months or a year before it was covet time we had to sometimes
Speaker #6
many, many, many, many, many months or a year before. It was COVID time, we had to sometimes
Speaker #5
I record from abroad.
Speaker #6
...record from abroad. I remember the little boy who was recording Pinocchio.
Speaker #5
I remember the little boy who was recording Pinocchio.
Speaker #6
He was in his bedroom in London and I was coaching him.
Speaker #5
He was in his bedroom in London and I was coaching him. Christoph Watz was somewhere in Los Angeles.
Speaker #6
Christoph Watz was somewhere in Los Angeles.
Speaker #5
Ewan McGregor was in his garage.
Speaker #6
Ewan McGregor was in his garage.
Speaker #5
But the challenge was mostly artistic,
Speaker #6
But the challenge was... mostly artistic,
Speaker #5
you know,
Speaker #6
to try and have a continuity with all the songs and make the score marry with all these songs and use some of the themes or not.
Speaker #5
to try and have a continuity with all the songs and make the score. marry with all these songs and use some of the themes or not. It was a complex,
Speaker #6
It was a complex, complicated machine.
Speaker #5
complicated machine.
Speaker #11
And you make it right And your heart is bright So let the world know how it goes
Speaker #12
And you make it right, and your heart is right, so let the world know how it goes, open your arms to better tomorrow.
Speaker #11
Open your arms to better Open your arms Open your arms to better
Speaker #12
Open your arms to better tomorrow. To better
Speaker #6
When we started talking about the songs,
Speaker #5
When we started talking about the songs, Guillermo had written some lyrics on the page,
Speaker #6
Guillermo had written some lyrics on the page,
Speaker #5
on the script,
Speaker #6
on the script,
Speaker #5
and it became the kind of blueprint,
Speaker #6
and it became the kind of blueprint,
Speaker #5
the beginning of the writing of the songs,
Speaker #6
the beginning of the writing of the songs,
Speaker #5
and I brought in my old friend,
Speaker #6
and I brought in my old friend.
Speaker #5
yeah,
Speaker #10
cats who I'd written songs with in the past we were talking to Beck the rock star and he was really hard to schedule and I said you know who's always around?
Speaker #5
Katz. who I'd written songs with in the past.
Speaker #9
We were talking to Beck, the rock star, and he was really hard to schedule. And I said, you know who's always around? Me.
Speaker #10
Me So we went at it with the song My Son,
Speaker #9
So we went at it with the song My Son,
Speaker #10
and that was successful,
Speaker #9
and that was successful, and I thought,
Speaker #10
and I thought, oh,
Speaker #9
oh,
Speaker #10
I'm a lyricist.
Speaker #9
I'm a lyricist.
Speaker #10
You are a lyricist.
Speaker #9
You're a lyricist. I'm not.
Speaker #10
I'm not. So,
Speaker #9
So,
Speaker #10
you know,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
Alexander and Katz,
Speaker #9
Alexander and Katz,
Speaker #10
we would discuss the main ideas,
Speaker #9
we would discuss the main ideas, and then they would go away and work on the rest of the songs.
Speaker #10
and then they would go away and work on the rest of the song.
Speaker #8
Ciao,
Speaker #7
Ciao Papa!
Speaker #8
Papa. Could you sing it,
Speaker #7
Could you sing it, the first verse?
Speaker #8
the first verse? No.
Speaker #7
No.
Speaker #8
But you said,
Speaker #7
You said, you accepted.
Speaker #8
you accepted.
Speaker #7
Yeah,
Speaker #8
Yeah,
Speaker #10
but you were serving me ice cream.
Speaker #9
but you were serving me ice cream. I lied.
Speaker #10
I lied.
Speaker #9
I'm not doing it.
Speaker #10
I'm not doing it.
Speaker #7
You're not a real singer.
Speaker #8
You're not a real singer.
Speaker #7
No,
Speaker #9
no.
Speaker #10
No.
Speaker #7
Are you disappointed?
Speaker #8
Are you disappointed?
Speaker #9
Ciao,
Speaker #10
Ciao,
Speaker #9
Papa.
Speaker #10
Papa.
Speaker #9
Mi
Speaker #5
Papa. Voilà.
Speaker #9
Très bien.
Speaker #10
No,
Speaker #9
No, no. Basta. That's it.
Speaker #10
that's it. It's opening.
Speaker #9
It's opening. No, but the spirit of that song was so important because,
Speaker #10
But the spirit of that song was so important because like Frankenstein,
Speaker #9
like Frankenstein,
Speaker #10
for me,
Speaker #9
for me,
Speaker #10
it's a story of fathers and sons.
Speaker #9
it's a story of fathers and sons. And to say farewell was...
Speaker #10
And to say farewell was such a beautiful feeling.
Speaker #9
Such a beautiful feeling and
Speaker #10
And
Speaker #9
I think the song captured it.
Speaker #10
I think the song captured it.
Speaker #8
And father and son is the spine of all your movies.
Speaker #7
And father and son is the spine of all your movies.
Speaker #9
Yes,
Speaker #10
Yes, unfortunately so.
Speaker #9
unfortunately so.
Speaker #0
Ciao Papa,
Speaker #13
Ciao papa,
Speaker #0
mio Papa,
Speaker #13
mio papa
Speaker #0
time has come to say farewell.
Speaker #13
Time has come to say farewell For how long will I go,
Speaker #0
For how long will I go,
Speaker #13
is it far?
Speaker #0
is it far? No one knows,
Speaker #13
No one knows,
Speaker #0
no one can tell.
Speaker #13
no one can tell If I am gone for a long,
Speaker #0
If I am gone for a long, long time,
Speaker #13
long time,
Speaker #0
I'll pack a...
Speaker #13
I'll pack away a fine piece of shine.
Speaker #0
away a fine piece of shine, the sounds of birds jumping with bells,
Speaker #13
The sounds of birds jumping with bells,
Speaker #0
your rings of plums,
Speaker #13
draw rings of plums to bags of shells.
Speaker #0
your bags of shells, the smell of bread,
Speaker #13
The smell of bread,
Speaker #0
a drum of wine,
Speaker #13
a drop of wine,
Speaker #0
your memory,
Speaker #13
your memory,
Speaker #0
father of mine.
Speaker #13
father of mine.
Speaker #0
Farewell, my papa.
Speaker #3
In a stop motion animation film,
Speaker #4
Papa In a stop-motion animation film,
Speaker #3
with songs, these are obviously recorded before the animation.
Speaker #4
with songs, these are obviously recorded before the animation.
Speaker #3
To what extent does having music at the time of shooting influence the staging?
Speaker #9
To what extent does having music at the time of the shooting influence the staging?
Speaker #10
Yeah, the animation is based on the soundtrack first. We record the actors on what is called a scratch track, and the songs,
Speaker #9
Songs, of course,
Speaker #10
of course,
Speaker #9
need to have that emotion.
Speaker #10
need to have that emotion. And I think that's what I value in Alexander,
Speaker #9
And I think that's what I value in Alexander and I have in common with him.
Speaker #10
and I have in common with him.
Speaker #9
There is a thing,
Speaker #10
There is a thing in...
Speaker #9
when I was raised Catholic,
Speaker #10
When I was raised Catholic, it was called a state of grace.
Speaker #9
it was called a state of grace. What it means is,
Speaker #10
What it means is,
Speaker #9
for me,
Speaker #10
for me,
Speaker #9
emotionally,
Speaker #10
emotionally, we have an innocence that allows us to get emotional.
Speaker #9
we have an innocence that allows us to get emotional. I think that a lot of art is meant to be objective and distant,
Speaker #10
I think that a lot of art is meant to be objective and distant, and we share the knowledge that art is emotion.
Speaker #9
and we share the knowledge that art is emotion.
Speaker #10
I'm Mexican,
Speaker #9
I'm Mexican, so I'm extremely emotional,
Speaker #10
so I'm extremely emotional, but Alexander and I share that bond where the meter we use for the final themes and all that is,
Speaker #9
but Alexander and I share that bond where we, the meter we use for the final themes and all that is, I say,
Speaker #10
I say,
Speaker #9
I haven't cried.
Speaker #10
I haven't cried.
Speaker #9
Until I cry in his studio,
Speaker #10
Until I cry in his studio,
Speaker #9
we don't rest.
Speaker #10
we don't rest.
Speaker #9
And I think that's a very open,
Speaker #10
And I think that's a very open, sincere and risky thing to do these days,
Speaker #9
sincere, and risky thing to do these days,
Speaker #10
because I think emotion is the new punk.
Speaker #9
because I think emotion is the new punk. It's something people don't risk,
Speaker #10
It's something people don't risk,
Speaker #9
and we risk it.
Speaker #10
and we risk it.
Speaker #4
For the son of Gepetto,
Speaker #3
For the son of Gepetto, Carlo,
Speaker #4
Carlo, Alexandre wrote a deep and naive theme at the same time,
Speaker #3
Alexandre wrote a deep and naive theme at the same time,
Speaker #4
which already seems to belong to the collective memory,
Speaker #3
which seems to already belong to the collective memory,
Speaker #4
a theme that he will play for us the first measures on the piano.
Speaker #3
a theme he will play for us the first time on the piano.
Speaker #6
The
Speaker #5
The
Speaker #6
theme is original but it seems to be part of the collective memory.
Speaker #5
theme is original but it seems to be part of the collective memory.
Speaker #6
I don't know,
Speaker #5
I don't know,
Speaker #6
I just try to make it accessible I guess.
Speaker #5
I just try to make it accessible I guess and without being
Speaker #6
Without being simplistic and simple,
Speaker #5
simplistic and simple is not the same.
Speaker #6
it's not the same. So simple means that I spend many,
Speaker #5
So simple means that I spend many,
Speaker #6
many hours trying.
Speaker #5
many hours trying.
Speaker #6
Sometimes some themes just come very quickly,
Speaker #5
Sometimes some themes just come very quickly,
Speaker #6
but most of the time,
Speaker #5
but most of the time, it's hard to write a good melody.
Speaker #6
it's hard to write a good melody. It's a lot of work,
Speaker #5
It's a lot of work,
Speaker #6
a lot of tries and tries and tries again and again until you find the right shape,
Speaker #5
a lot of tries and tries and tries again and again until you find the right shape,
Speaker #6
the right chord changes.
Speaker #5
the right chord changes. You sleep with it,
Speaker #6
You sleep with it,
Speaker #5
you wake up with it until you find the right thing.
Speaker #6
you wake up with it, until you find the right thing.
Speaker #5
But when you write a melody,
Speaker #6
But when you write a melody, you want everybody to be able to sing it.
Speaker #5
you want everybody to be able to sing it.
Speaker #6
So it...
Speaker #5
and at the same time it has to fit the character that you're writing a theme for.
Speaker #6
and at the same time it has to fit the character that you're writing a theme for. I remember,
Speaker #5
I don't know if you remember that,
Speaker #6
I don't know if you remember that,
Speaker #5
I wrote the score of a movie called Philomena for Stephen Frears,
Speaker #6
I wrote the score of a movie called Philomena for Stephen Frears, and it's the story of a nurse,
Speaker #5
and it's the story of a nurse,
Speaker #6
the woman was a nurse.
Speaker #5
the woman was a nurse. So a woman who was quite simple and worked with her hands all her life.
Speaker #6
So a woman who was quite simple and who worked with her hands all her life. And so I started writing a theme,
Speaker #5
So I started writing a theme,
Speaker #6
and it couldn't be too sophisticated or too elaborate,
Speaker #5
and it couldn't be too sophisticated or too elaborate, too complex.
Speaker #6
too complex.
Speaker #5
It just didn't work.
Speaker #6
It just didn't work and I thought about her hands,
Speaker #5
And I thought about her hands, that she was working with her hands.
Speaker #6
that she was working with her hands.
Speaker #5
So I tried to find a melody that could just fit in one hand.
Speaker #6
So I tried to find a melody that could just fit in one hand.
Speaker #5
So the fingers are like this on the piano,
Speaker #6
So the fingers are like this on the piano and they don't move,
Speaker #5
and they don't move, it's just this.
Speaker #6
it's just this. And that's a way of being in tune with what is on the screen.
Speaker #5
And that's a way of being in tune with what is on the screen. It's just trying to understand what the character is revealing and what your music can reveal of the character.
Speaker #6
It's just trying to understand what the character is revealing and what your music can reveal of the character.
Speaker #7
You use the word revealing.
Speaker #8
You use the word revealing.
Speaker #7
Guillermo,
Speaker #8
Guillermo,
Speaker #7
you always say that a good composer does not underline,
Speaker #8
you always... say that a good composer does not underline,
Speaker #7
he reveals.
Speaker #8
he reveals.
Speaker #10
Yeah,
Speaker #9
Yeah, I believe that.
Speaker #10
I believe that. I think that,
Speaker #9
I think that,
Speaker #10
I mean,
Speaker #9
I mean,
Speaker #10
it's what in the old days they called Mickey Mouse-ing.
Speaker #9
it's what in the old days they called Mickey Mousing. You don't Mickey Mouse.
Speaker #10
You don't Mickey Mouse.
Speaker #9
You don't pop, you know it is you supplement you propel you de-accelerate when we are working together oftentimes i say i'm gonna give you another an extra beat on this shot and i call the editor right there and this shot at 36 frames or you know 12 or 24 but i also learned to breathe with his music the editing is
Speaker #10
You supplement, you propel, you deaccelerate. When we are working together, oftentimes I say, I'm going to give you an extra beat on this shot. And I call the editor right there and say, this shot had 36 frames, or 12, or 24. But I also learned to breathe with his music. The editing is not only one-sided.
Speaker #9
not only one-sided you know if if we feel that it needs
Speaker #10
If we feel that it needs a moment more,
Speaker #9
A moment more,
Speaker #10
Are we...
Speaker #9
we're going to extend the shot.
Speaker #10
we can extend the shot.
Speaker #9
So
Speaker #10
So
Speaker #9
I'm not underlining,
Speaker #10
I'm not underlining,
Speaker #9
he's not underlining,
Speaker #10
he's not underlining, we're singing together.
Speaker #9
we're singing together. That's the thing,
Speaker #10
That's the thing.
Speaker #9
it's a jazz,
Speaker #10
It's a jazz,
Speaker #9
we are riffing.
Speaker #10
we are riffing.
Speaker #9
As abstract as this sounds,
Speaker #10
As abstract as this sounds,
Speaker #9
I think a good color version is riffing.
Speaker #10
I think a good color version is riffing. piano plays in bright rhythm
Speaker #7
What could you tell us about the score for Frankenstein?
Speaker #8
What could you tell us about the score for Frankenstein?
Speaker #9
We're working on it.
Speaker #10
We're working on it.
Speaker #9
No,
Speaker #10
No,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
you know,
Speaker #9
that is the same with Pinocchio.
Speaker #10
that is the same with Pinocchio.
Speaker #9
It's a thing that was taken by me at a very early age.
Speaker #10
is a thing that I it was taken by me at a very early age so at this point is biography at this point is it's as ingested and part of me as it could be
Speaker #9
So at this point is biography. At this point is... It's as ingested and part of me as it could be. And what I can tell you is when I sat down with Alexander,
Speaker #10
And what I can tell you is when I sat down with Alexander, what we do is break it out in themes.
Speaker #9
what we do is break it out in themes.
Speaker #10
This is the theme for this character,
Speaker #9
This is the theme for this character, this is for this.
Speaker #10
this is for this. Not always sticking to that.
Speaker #9
Not always sticking to that. And then we play with that.
Speaker #10
And then we play with that. That's where we are right now.
Speaker #9
That's where we are right now.
Speaker #5
Yeah,
Speaker #6
Yeah,
Speaker #5
the only thing I could say is that
Speaker #6
the only thing I could say is that
Speaker #5
Guillermo's cinema is very lyrical.
Speaker #6
Guillermo's cinema is very lyrical. and my music is rather lyrical too so
Speaker #5
And my music is rather lyrical too. So
Speaker #6
I think the music of Frankenstein will be something very lyrical and emotional
Speaker #5
I think the music of Frankenstein will be something very lyrical. and you know and emotional. You know, I'm not trying to write horrific music or...
Speaker #6
I'm not trying to write horrific music that's something we can do but we can try something else maybe somebody asked me the other day
Speaker #5
That's something we can do, but we can try something else,
Speaker #9
maybe. Somebody asked me the other day...
Speaker #10
Does it have really scary scenes?
Speaker #9
Does it have really scary scenes?
Speaker #10
For the first time,
Speaker #9
For the first time,
Speaker #10
I consider that.
Speaker #9
I consider that.
Speaker #10
It's an emotional story for me.
Speaker #9
It's an emotional story for me. It's as personal as anything.
Speaker #10
It's as personal as anything.
Speaker #9
I'm asking a question about being a father,
Speaker #10
I'm asking a question about being a father,
Speaker #9
being a son.
Speaker #10
being a son.
Speaker #9
Things that are...
Speaker #10
Things that are...
Speaker #9
I'm not doing a horror movie,
Speaker #10
I'm not doing a horror movie,
Speaker #9
ever.
Speaker #10
ever. I'm not trying to do that.
Speaker #9
I'm not trying to do that. So the same thing with the music.
Speaker #10
So the same thing with the music. We're finding the emotion.
Speaker #9
We're finding the emotion.
Speaker #10
What I can say for me is it's an incredibly emotional movie.
Speaker #9
What I can say for me is it's an incredibly emotional movie. Yeah,
Speaker #10
Yeah,
Speaker #9
I mean,
Speaker #10
I mean,
Speaker #9
I remember the first time I thought
Speaker #10
I remember the first time I thought I was going to avenge the creature was when Marilyn Monroe is coming out on the seven-year itch with Tony Leung.
Speaker #9
I was going to avenge the creature was when Marilyn Monroe is coming out on the seven-year itch with Tony Leung.
Speaker #10
And she says,
Speaker #9
And she says, the creature just needed somebody to like him.
Speaker #10
the creature just needed somebody to like him.
Speaker #9
I fell in love with Marilyn and I fell in love with the creature in that scene at a very early age.
Speaker #10
I fell in love with Marilyn and I fell in love with the creature in that scene at a very early age.
Speaker #9
And I thought,
Speaker #10
And I thought... You know,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
all we have is people that look at people the wrong way.
Speaker #9
all we have is people that look at people the wrong way.
Speaker #10
That's what we have in this world.
Speaker #9
That's what we have in this world.
Speaker #10
You know,
Speaker #9
You know,
Speaker #10
you consider something and you make it real.
Speaker #9
you consider something and you make it real. Monsters,
Speaker #10
Monsters,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
you know,
Speaker #9
to me are the perfect way to speak about this.
Speaker #10
to me are the perfect way to speak about this.

Chapters

Introduction à la collaboration entre Desplat et Del Toro
9sec
Le succès de 'La Forme de l'eau' et ses conséquences
20sec
Création d'une nouvelle version de Pinocchio
46sec
La dynamique de travail entre Del Toro et Desplat
2min
Discussion sur la musique dans le film 'Frankenstein'
8min

Embed

Chapters

Introduction à la collaboration entre Desplat et Del Toro
9sec
Le succès de 'La Forme de l'eau' et ses conséquences
20sec
Création d'une nouvelle version de Pinocchio
46sec
La dynamique de travail entre Del Toro et Desplat
2min
Discussion sur la musique dans le film 'Frankenstein'
8min

Description

Leur rencontre, en 2017, c'est un coup de foudre amical et professionnel, soudé par l'éclatante réussite de La Forme de l'eau, fable humaniste

Par Stéphane Lerouge.

Crédits musicaux :

Philomena (main title) - Musique composée et dirigée par Alexandre Desplat, Editions Galiléa Music

Better tomorrows, par Ewan McGregor - Alexandre Desplat / Robin Katz)

Ciao papa, par Gregory Mann - (Alexandre Desplat / Robin Katz-Guillermo del Toro)

Going to town

Carlo's Theme, Extraits de Pinocchio - Musique composée et dirigée par Alexandre Desplat, Editions Maisie Beats / Galiléa Music / Maisie Anthems

Frankenstein (The Castle) - Musique composée et dirigée par Alexandre Desplat, Editions Galiléa Music

Hébergé par Ausha. Visitez ausha.co/politique-de-confidentialite pour plus d'informations.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Musique
Speaker #1
The great interviews of the Sacem museum with Stéphane Lerouge.
Speaker #2
Les grands entretiens du musée de la Sacem avec Stéphane Lerouge Musique
Speaker #3
At the Cannes Festival 2025,
Speaker #4
At the Cannes Festival 2025, the Leçon de Musique SACEM celebrated a emblematic composer-cinema composer duo,
Speaker #3
the SACEM music lesson celebrated a emblematic composer-cinema composer, the French Alexandre Desplat and the Mexican Guillermo del Toro.
Speaker #4
the French Alexandre Desplat and the Mexican Guillermo del Toro.
Speaker #3
Their meeting in 2017 is a friendly touch.
Speaker #4
Their meeting in 2017 is a friendly and professional blow,
Speaker #3
and professional, welded by the striking success of the form of the humanist fable water which is worth to the composer his second oscar.
Speaker #4
welded by the striking success of La Forme de l'eau, a humanist fable that deserves the composer his second Oscar. It will then be an original rereading of Pinocchio,
Speaker #3
It will then be an original rereading of Pinocchio,
Speaker #4
treated as a musical tale,
Speaker #3
treated as a musical tale and in 2021,
Speaker #4
and in 2025,
Speaker #3
a very lyrical Frankenstein where the monster is less the creature than its creator.
Speaker #4
a very lyrical Frankenstein, where the monster is less the creature than its creator.
Speaker #3
In parallel with the collaborations with Wes Anderson,
Speaker #4
In parallel with the collaborations with Wes Anderson, Stephen Frears,
Speaker #3
Stephen Frears, George Clooney or Roman Polanski,
Speaker #4
George Clooney or Roman Polanski, the axis of El Toro holds a singular place in Alexandre Desplat's career,
Speaker #3
the axis of El Toro holds a singular place in Alexandre Desplat's career, which often emphasizes that each filmmaker has his own functioning,
Speaker #4
which often emphasizes that each filmmaker has his own functioning,
Speaker #3
his own relationship to music.
Speaker #4
his own relationship to music. So,
Speaker #3
So precisely,
Speaker #4
precisely,
Speaker #3
what is Guillermo del Toro's way of working?
Speaker #5
what is Guillermo del Toro's way of working?
Speaker #3
Del Toro.
Speaker #6
I've learned his passion for music and for film music,
Speaker #5
and for film music.
Speaker #6
so it's a great help,
Speaker #5
So it's a great help because when we exchange we have references that we can you know go to.
Speaker #6
because when we exchange, we have references that we can, you know, go to. But
Speaker #5
But
Speaker #6
I think it's his open mind,
Speaker #5
I think it's his open mind as you know he's just open to whatever I would suggest.
Speaker #6
you know, he's just open to whatever I would suggest. If it's right,
Speaker #5
If it's right it's fine,
Speaker #6
it's fine.
Speaker #5
it has to be right.
Speaker #6
It has to be right. Of course,
Speaker #5
Of course if I say shit then it's not good but if I bring a good idea it works and he's always open to.
Speaker #6
if I say shit, it's not good. But if I bring a good idea, it works. and he's always open to change routes.
Speaker #5
to change routes, you know, sometimes he had an idea,
Speaker #6
Sometimes he had an idea,
Speaker #5
oh,
Speaker #6
oh,
Speaker #5
we should do this,
Speaker #6
we should do this,
Speaker #5
that,
Speaker #6
that, and I suggest,
Speaker #5
and I suggest,
Speaker #6
maybe,
Speaker #5
maybe,
Speaker #6
how about we do this,
Speaker #5
how about we do this,
Speaker #6
we do that.
Speaker #5
we do that, and he's always open to,
Speaker #6
And he's always open to... And that's a great,
Speaker #5
and that's a great, great quality,
Speaker #6
great quality because
Speaker #5
because I need to feel that the director has confidence in me,
Speaker #6
I need to feel that the director has confidence in me.
Speaker #5
otherwise it's painful.
Speaker #6
Otherwise, it's painful.
Speaker #7
So,
Speaker #8
So, Guillermo,
Speaker #7
Guillermo, the second act of your collaboration was your adaptation of Carlo Collodi's
Speaker #8
the second act of your collaboration was your adaptation of Carlo Collodi's
Speaker #7
Pinocchio, which is a very original version,
Speaker #8
Pinocchio, which is... A very original version because it's really a film about loss and grief.
Speaker #7
because it's really a film about... Loss and Grief. How did you get the idea of treating it as a musical tale?
Speaker #8
How did you get the idea of treating it as a musical tale?
Speaker #9
It was from the beginning.
Speaker #10
It was from the beginning.
Speaker #9
It started very different and it got mutated when I finally decided on this form.
Speaker #10
It started very different and it got mutated when I finally decided on this form. I knew I wanted
Speaker #9
I knew I wanted Pinocchio to sing to Mussolini,
Speaker #10
Pinocchio to sing to Mussolini.
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
And
Speaker #9
and I think that the clarity of a musical where you can declare...
Speaker #10
I think that the clarity of a musical where you can declare
Speaker #9
The personality or the intentions or the dreams of a character is very,
Speaker #10
The personality or the intentions or the dreams of a character is very,
Speaker #9
very clean.
Speaker #10
very clean.
Speaker #9
It can get you not only through the story,
Speaker #10
It can get you not only through the story,
Speaker #9
but through a lot of unnecessary sort of signification.
Speaker #10
but through a lot of unnecessary sort of signification.
Speaker #9
With the puppet being stop-motion and the actors being stop-motion,
Speaker #10
With the puppet being stop-motion and the actors being stop-motion,
Speaker #9
the way to bring the humanity in all of them was through the singing.
Speaker #10
the way to bring the humanity in all of them was through the singing. And it was constructed very much like a musical.
Speaker #9
And it was constructed very much like a musical. If you see,
Speaker #10
If you see,
Speaker #9
it has a touch of grace at the end when the pine cone falls.
Speaker #10
it has a touch of grace at the end when the pine cone falls.
Speaker #9
It's like a...
Speaker #10
It's like a...
Speaker #9
It's like a punctuation at the end of a symphony.
Speaker #10
It's like a punctuation at the end of a symphony. Same in Pan's Labyrinth,
Speaker #9
Same in Pan's Labyrinth,
Speaker #10
the flower blooming at the end.
Speaker #9
the flower blooming at the end. These are punctuation marks,
Speaker #10
These are punctuation marks, and that,
Speaker #9
and that,
Speaker #10
like Shape of Water,
Speaker #9
like Shape of Water, it declared itself to be a musical.
Speaker #10
it declared itself to be a musical. For example,
Speaker #9
For example, Frankenstein,
Speaker #10
Frankenstein, I never thought.
Speaker #9
I never thought. The movie tells you what it wants to be.
Speaker #10
The movie tells you what it wants to be.
Speaker #9
It really does.
Speaker #10
It really does.
Speaker #9
And I think people think a director's job is to talk.
Speaker #10
And I think people think a director's job is to talk.
Speaker #9
A director's job is to listen a lot also.
Speaker #10
A director's job is to listen a lot also,
Speaker #9
And to collaborators,
Speaker #10
and to collaborators, to the movie itself,
Speaker #9
to the movie itself, to actors.
Speaker #10
to actors.
Speaker #9
So
Speaker #10
So Pinocchio wanted to be that because he's in the theater.
Speaker #9
Pinocchio wanted to be that because he's in the theater. He's in the marionette theater.
Speaker #10
He's in the marionette theater.
Speaker #5
In many movies I try to not be too...
Speaker #6
In many movies I try to not be too close to the period of the film,
Speaker #5
close to the period of the film. But for this one,
Speaker #6
but for this one it seemed just not right to go too far away and write pop songs that would be completely...
Speaker #5
it seemed just not right to go too far away and write pop songs that would be completely disconnected to the time.
Speaker #6
disconnected to the time.
Speaker #5
So I think we decided very early on that it would fit a more
Speaker #6
So I think we decided very early on that it would fit a more
Speaker #5
1920s, 30s kind of orchestration type of melodies.
Speaker #6
1920s, 30s kind of orchestration type of melodies.
Speaker #5
And the challenge was that there were many songs to write.
Speaker #6
And the challenge was that there were many songs to write ahead of time,
Speaker #5
ahead of time many many many many many months or a year before it was covet time we had to sometimes
Speaker #6
many, many, many, many, many months or a year before. It was COVID time, we had to sometimes
Speaker #5
I record from abroad.
Speaker #6
...record from abroad. I remember the little boy who was recording Pinocchio.
Speaker #5
I remember the little boy who was recording Pinocchio.
Speaker #6
He was in his bedroom in London and I was coaching him.
Speaker #5
He was in his bedroom in London and I was coaching him. Christoph Watz was somewhere in Los Angeles.
Speaker #6
Christoph Watz was somewhere in Los Angeles.
Speaker #5
Ewan McGregor was in his garage.
Speaker #6
Ewan McGregor was in his garage.
Speaker #5
But the challenge was mostly artistic,
Speaker #6
But the challenge was... mostly artistic,
Speaker #5
you know,
Speaker #6
to try and have a continuity with all the songs and make the score marry with all these songs and use some of the themes or not.
Speaker #5
to try and have a continuity with all the songs and make the score. marry with all these songs and use some of the themes or not. It was a complex,
Speaker #6
It was a complex, complicated machine.
Speaker #5
complicated machine.
Speaker #11
And you make it right And your heart is bright So let the world know how it goes
Speaker #12
And you make it right, and your heart is right, so let the world know how it goes, open your arms to better tomorrow.
Speaker #11
Open your arms to better Open your arms Open your arms to better
Speaker #12
Open your arms to better tomorrow. To better
Speaker #6
When we started talking about the songs,
Speaker #5
When we started talking about the songs, Guillermo had written some lyrics on the page,
Speaker #6
Guillermo had written some lyrics on the page,
Speaker #5
on the script,
Speaker #6
on the script,
Speaker #5
and it became the kind of blueprint,
Speaker #6
and it became the kind of blueprint,
Speaker #5
the beginning of the writing of the songs,
Speaker #6
the beginning of the writing of the songs,
Speaker #5
and I brought in my old friend,
Speaker #6
and I brought in my old friend.
Speaker #5
yeah,
Speaker #10
cats who I'd written songs with in the past we were talking to Beck the rock star and he was really hard to schedule and I said you know who's always around?
Speaker #5
Katz. who I'd written songs with in the past.
Speaker #9
We were talking to Beck, the rock star, and he was really hard to schedule. And I said, you know who's always around? Me.
Speaker #10
Me So we went at it with the song My Son,
Speaker #9
So we went at it with the song My Son,
Speaker #10
and that was successful,
Speaker #9
and that was successful, and I thought,
Speaker #10
and I thought, oh,
Speaker #9
oh,
Speaker #10
I'm a lyricist.
Speaker #9
I'm a lyricist.
Speaker #10
You are a lyricist.
Speaker #9
You're a lyricist. I'm not.
Speaker #10
I'm not. So,
Speaker #9
So,
Speaker #10
you know,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
Alexander and Katz,
Speaker #9
Alexander and Katz,
Speaker #10
we would discuss the main ideas,
Speaker #9
we would discuss the main ideas, and then they would go away and work on the rest of the songs.
Speaker #10
and then they would go away and work on the rest of the song.
Speaker #8
Ciao,
Speaker #7
Ciao Papa!
Speaker #8
Papa. Could you sing it,
Speaker #7
Could you sing it, the first verse?
Speaker #8
the first verse? No.
Speaker #7
No.
Speaker #8
But you said,
Speaker #7
You said, you accepted.
Speaker #8
you accepted.
Speaker #7
Yeah,
Speaker #8
Yeah,
Speaker #10
but you were serving me ice cream.
Speaker #9
but you were serving me ice cream. I lied.
Speaker #10
I lied.
Speaker #9
I'm not doing it.
Speaker #10
I'm not doing it.
Speaker #7
You're not a real singer.
Speaker #8
You're not a real singer.
Speaker #7
No,
Speaker #9
no.
Speaker #10
No.
Speaker #7
Are you disappointed?
Speaker #8
Are you disappointed?
Speaker #9
Ciao,
Speaker #10
Ciao,
Speaker #9
Papa.
Speaker #10
Papa.
Speaker #9
Mi
Speaker #5
Papa. Voilà.
Speaker #9
Très bien.
Speaker #10
No,
Speaker #9
No, no. Basta. That's it.
Speaker #10
that's it. It's opening.
Speaker #9
It's opening. No, but the spirit of that song was so important because,
Speaker #10
But the spirit of that song was so important because like Frankenstein,
Speaker #9
like Frankenstein,
Speaker #10
for me,
Speaker #9
for me,
Speaker #10
it's a story of fathers and sons.
Speaker #9
it's a story of fathers and sons. And to say farewell was...
Speaker #10
And to say farewell was such a beautiful feeling.
Speaker #9
Such a beautiful feeling and
Speaker #10
And
Speaker #9
I think the song captured it.
Speaker #10
I think the song captured it.
Speaker #8
And father and son is the spine of all your movies.
Speaker #7
And father and son is the spine of all your movies.
Speaker #9
Yes,
Speaker #10
Yes, unfortunately so.
Speaker #9
unfortunately so.
Speaker #0
Ciao Papa,
Speaker #13
Ciao papa,
Speaker #0
mio Papa,
Speaker #13
mio papa
Speaker #0
time has come to say farewell.
Speaker #13
Time has come to say farewell For how long will I go,
Speaker #0
For how long will I go,
Speaker #13
is it far?
Speaker #0
is it far? No one knows,
Speaker #13
No one knows,
Speaker #0
no one can tell.
Speaker #13
no one can tell If I am gone for a long,
Speaker #0
If I am gone for a long, long time,
Speaker #13
long time,
Speaker #0
I'll pack a...
Speaker #13
I'll pack away a fine piece of shine.
Speaker #0
away a fine piece of shine, the sounds of birds jumping with bells,
Speaker #13
The sounds of birds jumping with bells,
Speaker #0
your rings of plums,
Speaker #13
draw rings of plums to bags of shells.
Speaker #0
your bags of shells, the smell of bread,
Speaker #13
The smell of bread,
Speaker #0
a drum of wine,
Speaker #13
a drop of wine,
Speaker #0
your memory,
Speaker #13
your memory,
Speaker #0
father of mine.
Speaker #13
father of mine.
Speaker #0
Farewell, my papa.
Speaker #3
In a stop motion animation film,
Speaker #4
Papa In a stop-motion animation film,
Speaker #3
with songs, these are obviously recorded before the animation.
Speaker #4
with songs, these are obviously recorded before the animation.
Speaker #3
To what extent does having music at the time of shooting influence the staging?
Speaker #9
To what extent does having music at the time of the shooting influence the staging?
Speaker #10
Yeah, the animation is based on the soundtrack first. We record the actors on what is called a scratch track, and the songs,
Speaker #9
Songs, of course,
Speaker #10
of course,
Speaker #9
need to have that emotion.
Speaker #10
need to have that emotion. And I think that's what I value in Alexander,
Speaker #9
And I think that's what I value in Alexander and I have in common with him.
Speaker #10
and I have in common with him.
Speaker #9
There is a thing,
Speaker #10
There is a thing in...
Speaker #9
when I was raised Catholic,
Speaker #10
When I was raised Catholic, it was called a state of grace.
Speaker #9
it was called a state of grace. What it means is,
Speaker #10
What it means is,
Speaker #9
for me,
Speaker #10
for me,
Speaker #9
emotionally,
Speaker #10
emotionally, we have an innocence that allows us to get emotional.
Speaker #9
we have an innocence that allows us to get emotional. I think that a lot of art is meant to be objective and distant,
Speaker #10
I think that a lot of art is meant to be objective and distant, and we share the knowledge that art is emotion.
Speaker #9
and we share the knowledge that art is emotion.
Speaker #10
I'm Mexican,
Speaker #9
I'm Mexican, so I'm extremely emotional,
Speaker #10
so I'm extremely emotional, but Alexander and I share that bond where the meter we use for the final themes and all that is,
Speaker #9
but Alexander and I share that bond where we, the meter we use for the final themes and all that is, I say,
Speaker #10
I say,
Speaker #9
I haven't cried.
Speaker #10
I haven't cried.
Speaker #9
Until I cry in his studio,
Speaker #10
Until I cry in his studio,
Speaker #9
we don't rest.
Speaker #10
we don't rest.
Speaker #9
And I think that's a very open,
Speaker #10
And I think that's a very open, sincere and risky thing to do these days,
Speaker #9
sincere, and risky thing to do these days,
Speaker #10
because I think emotion is the new punk.
Speaker #9
because I think emotion is the new punk. It's something people don't risk,
Speaker #10
It's something people don't risk,
Speaker #9
and we risk it.
Speaker #10
and we risk it.
Speaker #4
For the son of Gepetto,
Speaker #3
For the son of Gepetto, Carlo,
Speaker #4
Carlo, Alexandre wrote a deep and naive theme at the same time,
Speaker #3
Alexandre wrote a deep and naive theme at the same time,
Speaker #4
which already seems to belong to the collective memory,
Speaker #3
which seems to already belong to the collective memory,
Speaker #4
a theme that he will play for us the first measures on the piano.
Speaker #3
a theme he will play for us the first time on the piano.
Speaker #6
The
Speaker #5
The
Speaker #6
theme is original but it seems to be part of the collective memory.
Speaker #5
theme is original but it seems to be part of the collective memory.
Speaker #6
I don't know,
Speaker #5
I don't know,
Speaker #6
I just try to make it accessible I guess.
Speaker #5
I just try to make it accessible I guess and without being
Speaker #6
Without being simplistic and simple,
Speaker #5
simplistic and simple is not the same.
Speaker #6
it's not the same. So simple means that I spend many,
Speaker #5
So simple means that I spend many,
Speaker #6
many hours trying.
Speaker #5
many hours trying.
Speaker #6
Sometimes some themes just come very quickly,
Speaker #5
Sometimes some themes just come very quickly,
Speaker #6
but most of the time,
Speaker #5
but most of the time, it's hard to write a good melody.
Speaker #6
it's hard to write a good melody. It's a lot of work,
Speaker #5
It's a lot of work,
Speaker #6
a lot of tries and tries and tries again and again until you find the right shape,
Speaker #5
a lot of tries and tries and tries again and again until you find the right shape,
Speaker #6
the right chord changes.
Speaker #5
the right chord changes. You sleep with it,
Speaker #6
You sleep with it,
Speaker #5
you wake up with it until you find the right thing.
Speaker #6
you wake up with it, until you find the right thing.
Speaker #5
But when you write a melody,
Speaker #6
But when you write a melody, you want everybody to be able to sing it.
Speaker #5
you want everybody to be able to sing it.
Speaker #6
So it...
Speaker #5
and at the same time it has to fit the character that you're writing a theme for.
Speaker #6
and at the same time it has to fit the character that you're writing a theme for. I remember,
Speaker #5
I don't know if you remember that,
Speaker #6
I don't know if you remember that,
Speaker #5
I wrote the score of a movie called Philomena for Stephen Frears,
Speaker #6
I wrote the score of a movie called Philomena for Stephen Frears, and it's the story of a nurse,
Speaker #5
and it's the story of a nurse,
Speaker #6
the woman was a nurse.
Speaker #5
the woman was a nurse. So a woman who was quite simple and worked with her hands all her life.
Speaker #6
So a woman who was quite simple and who worked with her hands all her life. And so I started writing a theme,
Speaker #5
So I started writing a theme,
Speaker #6
and it couldn't be too sophisticated or too elaborate,
Speaker #5
and it couldn't be too sophisticated or too elaborate, too complex.
Speaker #6
too complex.
Speaker #5
It just didn't work.
Speaker #6
It just didn't work and I thought about her hands,
Speaker #5
And I thought about her hands, that she was working with her hands.
Speaker #6
that she was working with her hands.
Speaker #5
So I tried to find a melody that could just fit in one hand.
Speaker #6
So I tried to find a melody that could just fit in one hand.
Speaker #5
So the fingers are like this on the piano,
Speaker #6
So the fingers are like this on the piano and they don't move,
Speaker #5
and they don't move, it's just this.
Speaker #6
it's just this. And that's a way of being in tune with what is on the screen.
Speaker #5
And that's a way of being in tune with what is on the screen. It's just trying to understand what the character is revealing and what your music can reveal of the character.
Speaker #6
It's just trying to understand what the character is revealing and what your music can reveal of the character.
Speaker #7
You use the word revealing.
Speaker #8
You use the word revealing.
Speaker #7
Guillermo,
Speaker #8
Guillermo,
Speaker #7
you always say that a good composer does not underline,
Speaker #8
you always... say that a good composer does not underline,
Speaker #7
he reveals.
Speaker #8
he reveals.
Speaker #10
Yeah,
Speaker #9
Yeah, I believe that.
Speaker #10
I believe that. I think that,
Speaker #9
I think that,
Speaker #10
I mean,
Speaker #9
I mean,
Speaker #10
it's what in the old days they called Mickey Mouse-ing.
Speaker #9
it's what in the old days they called Mickey Mousing. You don't Mickey Mouse.
Speaker #10
You don't Mickey Mouse.
Speaker #9
You don't pop, you know it is you supplement you propel you de-accelerate when we are working together oftentimes i say i'm gonna give you another an extra beat on this shot and i call the editor right there and this shot at 36 frames or you know 12 or 24 but i also learned to breathe with his music the editing is
Speaker #10
You supplement, you propel, you deaccelerate. When we are working together, oftentimes I say, I'm going to give you an extra beat on this shot. And I call the editor right there and say, this shot had 36 frames, or 12, or 24. But I also learned to breathe with his music. The editing is not only one-sided.
Speaker #9
not only one-sided you know if if we feel that it needs
Speaker #10
If we feel that it needs a moment more,
Speaker #9
A moment more,
Speaker #10
Are we...
Speaker #9
we're going to extend the shot.
Speaker #10
we can extend the shot.
Speaker #9
So
Speaker #10
So
Speaker #9
I'm not underlining,
Speaker #10
I'm not underlining,
Speaker #9
he's not underlining,
Speaker #10
he's not underlining, we're singing together.
Speaker #9
we're singing together. That's the thing,
Speaker #10
That's the thing.
Speaker #9
it's a jazz,
Speaker #10
It's a jazz,
Speaker #9
we are riffing.
Speaker #10
we are riffing.
Speaker #9
As abstract as this sounds,
Speaker #10
As abstract as this sounds,
Speaker #9
I think a good color version is riffing.
Speaker #10
I think a good color version is riffing. piano plays in bright rhythm
Speaker #7
What could you tell us about the score for Frankenstein?
Speaker #8
What could you tell us about the score for Frankenstein?
Speaker #9
We're working on it.
Speaker #10
We're working on it.
Speaker #9
No,
Speaker #10
No,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
you know,
Speaker #9
that is the same with Pinocchio.
Speaker #10
that is the same with Pinocchio.
Speaker #9
It's a thing that was taken by me at a very early age.
Speaker #10
is a thing that I it was taken by me at a very early age so at this point is biography at this point is it's as ingested and part of me as it could be
Speaker #9
So at this point is biography. At this point is... It's as ingested and part of me as it could be. And what I can tell you is when I sat down with Alexander,
Speaker #10
And what I can tell you is when I sat down with Alexander, what we do is break it out in themes.
Speaker #9
what we do is break it out in themes.
Speaker #10
This is the theme for this character,
Speaker #9
This is the theme for this character, this is for this.
Speaker #10
this is for this. Not always sticking to that.
Speaker #9
Not always sticking to that. And then we play with that.
Speaker #10
And then we play with that. That's where we are right now.
Speaker #9
That's where we are right now.
Speaker #5
Yeah,
Speaker #6
Yeah,
Speaker #5
the only thing I could say is that
Speaker #6
the only thing I could say is that
Speaker #5
Guillermo's cinema is very lyrical.
Speaker #6
Guillermo's cinema is very lyrical. and my music is rather lyrical too so
Speaker #5
And my music is rather lyrical too. So
Speaker #6
I think the music of Frankenstein will be something very lyrical and emotional
Speaker #5
I think the music of Frankenstein will be something very lyrical. and you know and emotional. You know, I'm not trying to write horrific music or...
Speaker #6
I'm not trying to write horrific music that's something we can do but we can try something else maybe somebody asked me the other day
Speaker #5
That's something we can do, but we can try something else,
Speaker #9
maybe. Somebody asked me the other day...
Speaker #10
Does it have really scary scenes?
Speaker #9
Does it have really scary scenes?
Speaker #10
For the first time,
Speaker #9
For the first time,
Speaker #10
I consider that.
Speaker #9
I consider that.
Speaker #10
It's an emotional story for me.
Speaker #9
It's an emotional story for me. It's as personal as anything.
Speaker #10
It's as personal as anything.
Speaker #9
I'm asking a question about being a father,
Speaker #10
I'm asking a question about being a father,
Speaker #9
being a son.
Speaker #10
being a son.
Speaker #9
Things that are...
Speaker #10
Things that are...
Speaker #9
I'm not doing a horror movie,
Speaker #10
I'm not doing a horror movie,
Speaker #9
ever.
Speaker #10
ever. I'm not trying to do that.
Speaker #9
I'm not trying to do that. So the same thing with the music.
Speaker #10
So the same thing with the music. We're finding the emotion.
Speaker #9
We're finding the emotion.
Speaker #10
What I can say for me is it's an incredibly emotional movie.
Speaker #9
What I can say for me is it's an incredibly emotional movie. Yeah,
Speaker #10
Yeah,
Speaker #9
I mean,
Speaker #10
I mean,
Speaker #9
I remember the first time I thought
Speaker #10
I remember the first time I thought I was going to avenge the creature was when Marilyn Monroe is coming out on the seven-year itch with Tony Leung.
Speaker #9
I was going to avenge the creature was when Marilyn Monroe is coming out on the seven-year itch with Tony Leung.
Speaker #10
And she says,
Speaker #9
And she says, the creature just needed somebody to like him.
Speaker #10
the creature just needed somebody to like him.
Speaker #9
I fell in love with Marilyn and I fell in love with the creature in that scene at a very early age.
Speaker #10
I fell in love with Marilyn and I fell in love with the creature in that scene at a very early age.
Speaker #9
And I thought,
Speaker #10
And I thought... You know,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
all we have is people that look at people the wrong way.
Speaker #9
all we have is people that look at people the wrong way.
Speaker #10
That's what we have in this world.
Speaker #9
That's what we have in this world.
Speaker #10
You know,
Speaker #9
You know,
Speaker #10
you consider something and you make it real.
Speaker #9
you consider something and you make it real. Monsters,
Speaker #10
Monsters,
Speaker #9
you know,
Speaker #10
you know,
Speaker #9
to me are the perfect way to speak about this.
Speaker #10
to me are the perfect way to speak about this.

Chapters

Introduction à la collaboration entre Desplat et Del Toro
9sec
Le succès de 'La Forme de l'eau' et ses conséquences
20sec
Création d'une nouvelle version de Pinocchio
46sec
La dynamique de travail entre Del Toro et Desplat
2min
Discussion sur la musique dans le film 'Frankenstein'
8min

Embed

Chapters

Introduction à la collaboration entre Desplat et Del Toro

Le succès de 'La Forme de l'eau' et ses conséquences

Création d'une nouvelle version de Pinocchio

La dynamique de travail entre Del Toro et Desplat

Discussion sur la musique dans le film 'Frankenstein'

Chapters

Introduction à la collaboration entre Desplat et Del Toro

Le succès de 'La Forme de l'eau' et ses conséquences

Création d'une nouvelle version de Pinocchio

La dynamique de travail entre Del Toro et Desplat

Discussion sur la musique dans le film 'Frankenstein'

Chapters

Introduction à la collaboration entre Desplat et Del Toro

Le succès de 'La Forme de l'eau' et ses conséquences

Création d'une nouvelle version de Pinocchio

La dynamique de travail entre Del Toro et Desplat

Discussion sur la musique dans le film 'Frankenstein'

Chapters

Introduction à la collaboration entre Desplat et Del Toro

Le succès de 'La Forme de l'eau' et ses conséquences

Création d'une nouvelle version de Pinocchio

La dynamique de travail entre Del Toro et Desplat

Discussion sur la musique dans le film 'Frankenstein'