Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Rest and stillness are the greatest tools to productivity.

• Speaker #1

  Welcome to Neurodivergent Spot. I'm your host, Sam Arian. My pronouns are he, him, and I am a multiply neurodivergent therapist, speaker, and creator. My work focuses on all things neurodiversity with particular interest in autism, ADHD, learning differences, and learning disabilities. Today's guest is Olivia Rose. Olivia, please introduce yourself to the listeners.

• Speaker #0

  Hi. Yeah. Thanks. As you said, my name is Olivia Rose. I use she, her pronouns. I am an internationally certified coach, and I am super passionate about helping people break through barriers and create their lives with purpose and fulfillment. I join you in the neurodivergent world. I am a woman with ADHD. later in life diagnosis. So there's some adventures, misadventures with that sometimes, but it really, it's really helped fuel my love for connecting and helping grow with others, empower others to be who they are, whatever their unique flavor is. So I have 20 years of education and experience in human learning and development from literally birth. Through adulthood, my early career was all with our youngest humans. And a fun fact about me, I'm a total cooking geek. I love learning new techniques, cooking, playing, garden to table, recipes, cuisines. I can get hyper-focused on cooking projects.

• Speaker #1

  Before we continue, I've got a quick disclaimer. This podcast is for information purposes only and should not be seen as a replacement for therapy, healthcare, or legal advice. So this isn't one of your questions, but I'm curious, what is your favorite type of stuff to cook?

• Speaker #0

  That's a great one. Well, I have some food allergies, so I can't do any dairy. And I have a gluten sensitivity. So I like playing with traditional recipes. So I've got a great lasagna recipe that has no cheese or uses substitutes with a great gluten-free pasta. But being in Colorado, Mexican-influenced food is probably the thing I make the most. But I'm also really into Kenji Lopez-Alt's work. And so I have his Wok cookbook and love playing with stuff from there.

• Speaker #1

  Got it. That's awesome. But hey, let's dive in. First question, what has your journey with Nerd Avergence looked like?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So as I mentioned, my recognition of this was later in my life. So I didn't really know that I was experimenting on myself. And it's interesting that as an educational psychologist and someone who's been in education for a long time, I didn't pick up the cues on myself until much, much later on. But I knew that hacking my brain was important, hacking my productivity, my motivations, and the way I worked. So I would often hear something work for someone, and I'd be like, how? You know, routines. I'm like routine phobic, right? And so I had to learn, I learned a lot of ways of building habits and routines, but throwing in the variety I need. And then external organizers as well. What can I use to externally organize because my internal organization isn't always strong. So it was a relief and a revelation to come to ADHD. And then it gave me a retrospective to look back and say, oh, I was hacking myself all along and I just didn't really know it, which brought a lot of great stuff for coaching.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure that that's absolutely a lot to work with for coaching. There's such a theme that I run into just in this podcast alone of people who are late identified, late diagnosed, who have an education background in a field that would lead you to think that they would see it sooner. But I think it speaks to like how much the understanding. of neurodivergence is evolving, that what we were taught in school a decade, two decades ago, is just not understanding today.

• Speaker #0

  But that's time that my apologies for stepping on you there. In, in, I was in school in the 80s, even through the 90s, ADHD, then called ADD was normed on middle class white boys. So there was just a very narrow way we were understanding it at the time. And now We're seeing, oh, this is how girls and women tend to show up. And other boys, too. There are many boys and men who showed up a little bit differently. And you're right. It's just the knowledge base is exploding.

• Speaker #1

  I grew up a middle-class white boy and my ADHD was recognized, formally diagnosed as I was really struggling in my, I'll say my second year in college, because I don't think I had the credits for it to be considered my sophomore year. So next question, I think this flows nicely here. You work closely with adults with ADHD and working mothers. How have your own experiences informed the way you support these groups?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So again, so grateful that I have this educational psychology background and have been working in human learning and development. And I'm a portfolio life kind of gal. I love to do a million bazillion things. It's sort of maybe the key indicator of this particular neurodivergency. And I... Currently, right, I'm a woman with ADHD. I'm a working mom. I have a part-time, actually I have two part-time jobs right now and I'm an entrepreneur. So I know all about a million bazillion directions, right? Even when I had one full-time job, I was always filling my plate. I was on boards and volunteering and social coordinator and all of that. So I know what it's like to chase productivity and chase the thrill and at the same time crave peace. And for a long time, I didn't have that. And now I really have a new way of working within myself. So I can be multifaceted. I can still do a lot of variety of things. I've learned how to find my own inner calm and stillness to enjoy it more, really.

• Speaker #1

  The language you just used resonated hard around craving productivity. If we're craving that, it's so hard to pivot away from something that we're craving. I've never heard anybody phrase it quite like that. And I suspect that that just resonated for everybody listening.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, there's some interesting work out there right now. And we talk a lot about dopamine in this world. But there's some interesting work blending up psychology and the Buddhist tradition. together and thinking about the role of craving and how the more we fuel our cravings, the more we crave. And if we can dial that back a little bit, we may find more peaceability that we're looking for. But that's probably for another podcast at another time.

• Speaker #1

  Maybe we'll have to bring you back. We'll see. Next question. Your coaching approach blends practicality with a no BS mindset. Was there a turning point in your life that led to you embracing this philosophy?

• Speaker #0

  Well, as kind of born, no BS, much to my parents' chagrin. The softening of the edges is something I've worked on for a long time. But I think what I've realized is it's not about actively trying to soften the edges. When I started really leaning into my own unique true talents and my own self and my own peaceability and accepting, not just accepting. Not just accepting, I'm excited, so I trip on my words. Not just accepting who I am, but accepting who I'm becoming and leaning into that and slowing down into that, my edges naturally soften. But I still believe in a no BS mindset. So as I work with folks, I'm not going to just fill them with flowery nonsense, you know, and my clients really appreciate that where I stop and say, hmm, I hear a thing. theme here, I think. Tell me more about that. Or have you noticed you tend to say these words or these things? And I will call a spade a spade. And I think that's what people are craving, you know?

• Speaker #1

  I think absolutely. That makes a lot of sense to me. And especially considering the clientele you're talking about, right? It makes a lot of sense. Final question before we deep dive. Looking back, what's one piece of advice that you wish you had received earlier on your path toward a more fulfilling and aligned life?

• Speaker #0

  No one's going to like it. Rest and stillness are the greatest tools to productivity. They really are. And I had a teacher in my life that tried to teach me that when I was young and didn't get it until much later on. But I hear people beating themselves up all of the time. And I did the same. If I rest, I'm lazy. I must be doing, I must be acting. I have to be in activation mode. to be productive. But that's not really how our bodies and brains work. A marathon runner doesn't become fast by running as fast as they can every day. We do not have more productive brains when we force them to work too hard all day every day. It's the same thing. So I really wished I had learned to lean into rest and stillness a long, long time ago, because that is where I have found that balance with. productivity,

• Speaker #1

  and peaceability. I love that. And I think I've been on the kick lately. I think as we record this at the end of January, it feels like we're, I don't know, 80 days into this month. It's just where I live in Georgia, where we keep having these weather days where just the schedule, it's been tough. So I've been talking a lot about and thinking a lot about rest and recovery. And how these are two distinct things and we need both. And for some people, what you need for recovery may not be particularly restful, but you still need it. And, you know, kind of this, like there's a Venn diagram, there's overlap. Sure. And how a lot of times partners or family members struggle because what one person needs for recovery is not what their partner needs for recovery. And trying to meet everybody's needs. And we have a whole family dynamic and how it can get so challenging. And just a lot of films I'm working with are really wrestling through that. And that's really resonated. But yeah, that rest, that stillness, I think is such a big deal. And just navigating this, that is, it also resonates because that's something I've been intentional about working out for myself because burnout is real.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And I love that distinction and that the Venn diagram does overlap, but there may be different. things at different times. And one of the things that I've really been thinking a lot on and talking with a lot of my clients about is maybe your rest isn't your form of rest right now isn't the form of rest that is best serving you. So don't get me wrong. I like a good little bit of trashy TV and a glass of wine myself. It feels like a reward in the downtime we deserve, but might not actually be the rest. or the recovery that fuels you. It might be something that requires silence or stillness or even sometimes moving more. That is also a form of recovery. Movement has that purpose as well. Something else you said that I think is really interesting and I've been thinking a lot about, probably because it's winter, is that we are nature. We would like to think that we are not an animal, that we are somehow different and exception to the nature rule, but we are not. And nature has cycles and seasons, and we do too. And so, naturally, this time of year should be a little more reflective time of year and a quieter time of year. But we've conditioned ourselves because we have things like lights to light up the day more. And... All of these technologies and tools we've conditioned ourselves to not notice those calendar seasons, but we've also not conditioned ourselves to listen to the seasons of our life. So how you are productive in your 20s should be and likely is highly different than what your definition of productivity would be in your 40s or 50s or 70s. We don't make those distinctions in our culture very well anymore. And I think they're really important for us to pay attention to.

• Speaker #1

  That makes a lot of sense. Just hearing you say it and reflecting over my own life and how productively that I thought I was at times, yet at what cost as well. And I look back and sure, things that I did when I was 21 that I could sustain for periods of time, there's no way I can do now. But also, I don't want to do that now either. And I'm good with that.

• Speaker #0

  I have no desire to pull an all-nighter because I know how it'll feel the next day.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, 100%. So let's circle back, though. I want to go a little bit deeper. We talked about kind of maybe diving a little more around that. The coaching philosophy, the no BS mindset, sort of how that's come about. You know, you said you're sort of born that way. and you've embraced it in your work. Can you share a little bit more about that?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So I spent 20 years in early childhood education as my primary field. And For 15 years, I was a senior government leader, local government, and teaching at the community college. And I was just like chasing this societal expectation and this performance of success, of perfection. And sometimes it's referred to as the Wonder Woman syndrome. Just, yeah, I can do it all and I should do it all. I'm smart enough and fast enough and creative enough and all of that. And looking back, I see how I was in this cycle of performance, performance, supercharge, and then burnout and crash, and then slow recovery, and then supercharge over and over again. But what I didn't really realize until I looked back is that every time I supercharged, I couldn't hit the peaks I hit before. I was losing. energy every time. It was harder to come back. And, you know, I really, I really crashed and burned after 15 years of that cycle. And my, my partner was so fantastic and gave me a hard truth of we had not overcome everything we had overcome. I had previously beaten cancer. had some other life challenges. And he said, you know, we didn't go through all this for you, you to die of depression in this bed, barely able to get out minutes before a meeting and then turn it on really hard and then crash out. And I had to really take a good hard look at, at what I was performing. So even though it's sort of naturally have this no BS, lay it on the table, clear style. I wasn't using it with myself. You know, I wasn't, I wasn't being honest with what I was doing that wasn't really working. And I didn't really know because we do what we do. We just do what we do until we know different. And that was a real wake up call. And I went on a big, long journey of, of how do I break the cycles and patterns of not knowing I was going on that journey. It wasn't until later that I realized that. That's the journey I was on to finding me and my uniquenesses and my strengths and my challenges. And then that's why I do what I do now, because that's what the world needs. We do not need another cookie cutter Instagram view of perfection. We just don't need any more of that. There's more than enough of it. And it's all fake. We need more of who you are that is your uniqueness and lean into that, but not as an excuse and a place to stay, but as a... place to leap off of and grow into who you're becoming.

• Speaker #1

  I'm curious, how do you use self-disclosure and sort of balance that lived experience in your coaching work? Because that's powerful, what you're sharing about your own experiences.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. For those listening that are familiar with sort of the truest form of coaching, the most distilled form of coaching, it's about making a lot of space for the client, right? And trying to... be as objective as possible. And I take that charge very seriously. And I became ICF certified because I really believe in coaching in its purest form. And I also believe that we learn through examples. And one of the things I've really started to understand in the last couple of years is that. right here and now, and maybe not, I don't know for how long, but right here and now, I meant to live a little more out loud so that other people can have a model to live the way they need to live. Because when I try to suppress that out loudness, that gregariousness that I have, that joie de vivre, that love of being with people and talking with people and learning with people and sharing what I'm learning. When I try to turn that down, that's part of extinguishing my own flame. But when I accept that and I live into that, I'm actually much peaceable and calmer and I don't have to do it as much because I'm naturally expressing where I need to. And it allows other people to go, well, if she can live her life out loud, I can live my life like X, whatever is true to me. So in coaching, it's a real balance. I really want to and do make a lot of space for my clients. And I will at times say, hey, I'd like to pause here and just share a snippet of my experience or my life, not to say be like me. but to give you something to think about and what that might mean for you. I also, you know, I was, you know, saying perfection on Instagram. I also record reels on Instagram and do Facebook Lives and record things and put things out there just as ways that I am living or experiencing. I did a video recently of like, I jumped on my treadmill because I was having an unproductive spinning in circles kind of day. And I was like, get on your treadmill desk. Getting into your body will get you more productive. And I just took a little video, like, this is what I'm doing. And this is why, because I'm not naturally feeling productive today. And so I try not to overly infuse that in the coaching because that space really is for my client. And there are other examples I can put out into the world that help people in that way. And I like public speaking. So oftentimes, you know, in public speaking, I'll share things like this. And then folks will want to work with me as a coach. They've already heard.

• Speaker #1

  a bit about that so they don't need my whole life story in order to have a model yeah that makes a lot of sense and that's uh i think in the health professions that's an ongoing like trying to like find for a lot of people what is the right balance and um i've got a friend who they use the language of possibility model uh and i can't remember where they picked that up from uh i'm probably not sorting that sourcing that correctly but i i it's sort of this nothing got to be like me nothing got to be like that person but Here's a path that a person has followed, and I think it can be so powerful. But the way you're talking about making sure your client space exists, because how many clients do you have that that's been a challenge in their life is finding space for them to exist authentically in order to figure out what their next steps are going to be.

• Speaker #0

  Totally. And I think something you said a moment ago really struck me. Here's a path that someone traveled that you can model, but it's always going to be your own path.

• Speaker #1

  Yes. Olivia, I'm going to start wrapping up. For people who have heard you share a little bit and they want to learn more from you, where can they find you and how can they do that?

• Speaker #0

  A great place to find me is on Instagram at Olivia Rose Coach. And then another great place to find me is my website, rblxcoach.com. I call my coaching method Rebel X because the rebellion comes from within. I just drop the E's, you know, kind of kitschy, kind of cute. So rblxcoach.com. I'm also on LinkedIn, Facebook. People can find me there. Those are a little harder to all say out. But if you start on... Instagram or on my website, you will find your way to me. And you can probably search me pretty easily on the other platforms as well.

• Speaker #1

  And I will absolutely have all that stuff linked in the show notes. So for listeners who are like, yep, I do want to know where that is. Check the show notes. You'll find a link. We'll make it easy for you because definitely what you better find, Olivia. So thank you so much for joining me today. This conversation has been phenomenal. I really appreciate it.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you, Sam. It's been great. I've loved it.

• Speaker #1

  And thanks for listening to Nerd Divergent Spot. Again, I'm your host, Sam Marion. If you enjoyed this, I hope that you'll subscribe. I hope you'll share this with anybody who you think could benefit. You can find me on Instagram at Nerd Divergent Spot. And from there, you can find all my other places online.