Benjamin Stef - The Lending Strategies Real Estate Investors Are Using in 2026 | Real Estate Educators Podcast with Kevin Amolsch

Description

Most investors focus on finding the next deal—but the way you structure your financing can make or break your ability to scale.

In this episode of the Real Estate Educators Podcast, Kevin Amolsch sits down with Benjamin Stef to discuss creative lending strategies, DSCR loans, HELOCs, building momentum, and what separates successful investors from those who quit.

Ben shares how growing up in an entrepreneurial real estate family shaped the way he thinks about investing and lending. After starting his lending career during COVID and surviving one of the toughest interest rate shifts in history, Ben explains why focusing on the right daily activities and avoiding “shiny object syndrome” are critical for long-term success.

They also break down creative financing options investors may not know exist—including DSCR loans, investor HELOCs, non-QM lending, and strategies to access capital without selling properties or giving up low interest rates.

If you’re looking to grow your portfolio, unlock equity, or understand how successful investors think about financing, this episode is packed with valuable insights.

TIMESTAMPS

00:00 - Growing up around real estate and entrepreneurship
07:05 - Starting a lending career during COVID
09:24 - Surviving the interest rate shift when others quit
18:04 - Finding your “why” and refusing to quit
20:40 What is non-QM lending?
24:45 - Hosting events and building relationships through education
29:15 - Why every investor needs to pick a niche

Connect with Benjamin Stef:
YouTube: Funding Freedom – Ben Stef
Website: FundingFreedom.net

Learn more about creative financing, DSCR loans, investor lending strategies, and ways to leverage equity to grow your real estate portfolio.

Learn more about Pine Financial Group:
pinefinancialgroup.com

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
I accidentally came into the business the same time everybody else was. It was kind of like real estate, right? Like where everybody was becoming realtors because at that time selling was so easy. Yeah, in the beginning it was hard because I wasn't getting a lot of results, but I was putting in the work, which is the most frustrating thing. When you're working hard, like genuinely working. I'm not saying you go into the office and you sit around for five hours watching YouTube, like actually working. and you come home and you're tired. Because as an investor, from an investor perspective, obviously, just because the loan qualifies doesn't mean it's a good investment, right? Just because the gross rents cover the mortgage doesn't necessarily mean it might be a good property. But then putting on my lender hat, it's like, yeah, hey, the loan qualifies, it qualifies.
Speaker #1
We were in negotiations, we're investing in real estate. They're winning, they're making money.
Speaker #2
What's up, everyone? Welcome to the Real Estate Educators Podcast, where we provide the education you can build on. I am your host. Kevin Amos. We are back with another exciting episode. We have a lender with us today. We don't have a lot of lenders join us on this podcast. So I'm excited to get to know you, Ben, Steph. So you've been doing this a while. And I say a while, like you grew up doing this. Your family was in it. You were out there rehabbing houses. You just told me before we hit record that you were helping run a glass company for your father. And then you got into real estate and then migrated like I did onto the debt side about six years ago, a little under six years ago. And now you're helping your clients structure the debt on their real estate acquisitions and their investment properties. So for the listener, I know you're going to love this episode. So five-star review, share it with a friend. Welcome, Ben.
Speaker #0
Yeah, Kevin, thanks for having me, man. I'm so excited.
Speaker #2
All right. Well, let's get to know you. I mean, I was excited to push record here because you started going into your store and I was like, whoa. This is a pretty awesome story. Let's have the listener listen in. So we talk about Rich Dad on the show a lot, Ben, and your Rich Dad was your dad. So tell us about growing up in a family that just was entrepreneurs and real estate.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So growing up, having parents that weren't born here, so coming from Romania, and then also having entrepreneurial parents, it was like a double whammy for thinking outside the box, right? So. they really thought outside the box. Like, and that's what I, that's what I grew up with. It was never like my dad sat me down and said, Hey, you need to think outside the box. Like it just, it was just the way of life. Right. And I've noticed that this doesn't exist really in lending, like, especially on my, like on, on our world where, you know, most of us is like loan officers and lending are trained to do the traditional, like box loans, conventional VA, right. All these things. And so what ends up happening is you get a lot of guys that like, don't know the investment side. And so I grew up with my daddy at a construction company, glass company. And so he was GC on a lot of projects. We did a lot of rehabs and flips and made a lot of mistakes on the flips, of course, right? Like bought our first flip in a horrible area that was like a nightmare. But all that to say is it was at the time I kind of hated it, because I felt like... I had to work weekends, Saturday morning. I'd be like, okay, I'm going to go do this with my friends. I'm going to go do this. My dad's like, no, you have to stay. You have to help me. Like we need to finish this project. Inspection's due tomorrow. And like, we need to come over and help me finish. And I'm like, are you serious? So it was just a lot of that growing up that I hated. But now looking back, I'm like, okay, I guess it kind of shaped me a little bit. But yeah, that was kind of the background. Grew up in that area and then eventually just landed in the mortgage world, started doing like normal loans. But then once I understood that game, I kind of flipped over to helping real estate investors primarily.
Speaker #2
Okay. I know you're in Chicago now. Did you grow up in Chicago?
Speaker #0
Yep. Born and raised.
Speaker #2
Okay. So you've been there the entire time. Yeah. I love Chicago in the summer.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #2
You know, we do a lot of business in Minnesota, which is not far from there. And I know those towns right on the lake can get a little chilly in the winter. but so then you You got into lending early, like right in COVID. I'm just doing the math. I mean, that's right in COVID when you were getting going. So tell me about that.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So it was funny because I accidentally came into the business the same time everybody else was. It was kind of like real estate, right? Where everybody was becoming realtors because at that time, selling was so easy. You could get your license and do the buy sales side stuff as an agent, not even investments. deals. Just talking about on the sales side, you could just probably do 5, 10, 15, 20 deals that year without any experience. And so I think similar to the lending side, refinancing was just so prevalent because rates were so low. But I didn't really know that. You know what I mean? I just got into the business because I got into it regardless of the rates. And so I started in a low rate environment, which I was upset because I didn't know. what I know now of how much more money I could have made, but whatever. So I got into that business and then rates went up and everybody quit. Like everybody quit. There was a lot of people that did not renew their licenses, both on the real estate and mortgage side. And so I had to learn in that time period how to still generate business when nobody wanted to get a loan. Right. And that was really, really hard. But then once I learned, I started to, my business actually took off in that time period. You know how like during the recession, it was like, You figured out how to make it work. Now you're like, okay, in any market, I can make it work, right? Exactly. When it comes to real estate investing. And so that's exactly what happened to me. Like I went through a really big storm where like people quit. I didn't make a lot of money, but then I figured it out. I kind of like, it clicked for me, like the formula and the game that I was playing. And then after that, I was like, oh, okay, like this is how we grow in this market. And so, yeah, we did like, it really took off in the second half of my career now. But yeah, starting in COVID. So it was crazy.
Speaker #2
So there's a lot to unpack here. I want to see what we could learn from you going through that, especially so young and so motivated. And you're right, 2022, I mean, we had 9% inflation, right? Now, it's no secret to anybody. Summer of 22 is rather tough. And then the interest rate hike came from there more. And for your benefit, the interest rates jumped as a percentage of where it started more than any time in history. So that had to be a challenging time for you. So what's a takeaway? What'd you learn?
Speaker #0
Um, you can't control everything, but what you can control are the daily activities, right? So if you're a real estate investor, what does that mean for you? That means looking for leads, looking for properties, right? Networking, finding new deals, right? If you're in the real estate business, that means, you know, if it's cold calling Fizbo's and expired listings, whatever the thing, the daily activity is like, what is the one thing? What is the one thing that moves the needle? We talk about the 80, 20, but like, what's the 90, 10 or what's the one 99? right? What's the 1%, 5%, 10% that does the 80%, 90% of the work and just do that over and over again and don't fall for the shiny object syndrome. So those were the lessons I learned. Stop falling for the shiny objects where you're just chasing every new idea. You're like, oh, I want to go flip condos now. Oh, I want to go buy four flats, right? Oh, okay. This like, I want to start wholesaling. It's like, dude, focus, like stop. Like these are the investors I talk to often, right? It's like focusing, but then doing the daily activities regardless of like what's happening. Because eventually the way this business is, it's just like you never, you can't like do something and get results right away. It's kind of random. Yes, there's some luck involved, but it really is kind of random. So you just have to like do the thing and then eventually it'll happen. You just don't know when or how long it'll take. And that's the problem that people have. They don't like that.
Speaker #2
So you often hear the harder you work, the luckier you get, right?
Speaker #0
The luckier you get.
Speaker #2
I sort of agree with you that it's random. I could see why you would say that. And it's not so random, man, because if you work hard, you're going to have success, right?
Speaker #0
That's true too, right?
Speaker #2
And the thing about business, any business, the momentum is real, just like in sports, right? As you start to build that momentum, you really start having success. Do you know or can you pinpoint something, Ben, where you saw that momentum shift from the struggle to like the plane is finally taking off?
Speaker #0
Yeah, in the beginning, it was hard because I wasn't getting a lot of results, but I was putting in the work, which is the most frustrating thing when you're working hard, like genuinely working. I'm not saying you come to the office and you sit around for five hours watching YouTube, like actually working and you come home and you're tired. And then you do the networking events from seven to nine. You do all that. You put your own events together because I do my own events. That was the hardest thing for me was working so hard and not seeing anything come in income-wise. And then it felt like a bubble burst where I just started getting a lot of deals. Just a lot. You want to say overnight because it felt like overnight, but it was because I had years leading up to that point of effort. and work. And it just compiled it just all converged at the same time. So I remember for me was like, end of 2024, I wanted to quit really bad. I was like, I got married, I wasn't making a lot of money. My wife was a teacher at the time. And so we were kind of like, using her income because it was stable, right? It wasn't a lot, we were using that. And it was very, very difficult. And then fast forward now, she quit her job, she doesn't have to work, which is such a blessing. It was so great. And then, but like, had I quit, it was funny because my business literally October, I was like, I hate this. I'm going to quit. I was looking for jobs, Kevin, I'm not even kidding. And then November of 2024, November, December, January, it just completely exploded, which by the way, is like a slow season in our business, right? Like traditionally doesn't pick up, but it just did for me. And that's when I was like, okay, I got to keep this momentum going. Like I got to keep going. I can't stop now. Because like it's working. It's finally working. I almost felt like an actor, Kevin. You know what I mean, honestly. Like I felt like an actor and I kept going auditions, I was getting rejected. No, no movies wanted to hire, like no director want to hire me. And then eventually I got like a big break. And then it just, from that point on, I just kept going it hasn't stopped since. And I'm like, yes, like this is finally it, you know? So, yeah.
Speaker #2
And then the referrals start coming in and you work with investors. So I got to assume there's some repeat business in there.
Speaker #0
A lot of that. Yeah. Cause I really take care of people. And I think people need that, especially in this time that we live in where people just aren't taken care of. Like when you come to my business, you come into my ecosystem. Like I'm going to make sure you as an investor, like you're coming into my house. I'm going to feed you. Right. I'm going to give you drinks. I'm going to make sure that you're taken care of. Like we're going to host you. That's how I run my business. And so, yeah, we got a lot of repeat because they were like, Hey, Ben's right. Come hell or high water. Like you're going to hear from me, whether it's good news or bad news. And I think a lot of people respect that, you know. Even if things are rocky, I'm never going to hide behind my computer or my phone.
Speaker #2
So I wasn't sure when I was listening to you, if I heard like what kept you going. So it sounds like maybe we just said harder you work, the luckier you get. Maybe you just got lucky in 2024 at the end of 2024. Or like, how did you even get to that point? Where's that drive coming from?
Speaker #0
That's a great question. So a couple of factors. Number one, I really don't like quitting. I finished college. I wanted to pay cash for college. So I would do it. I would do a year, take a break, do a year, take a break. So I actually finished college late because I didn't want to get loans. And at one point I was like, especially in our world, in our business, you don't need a degree. You really don't. To become a real estate investor, to become an agent, you don't. But out of spite and for myself, I did not want to live knowing that I started college and quit, even though it was completely useless for my career. I still went and I finished it online during COVID. I was like, I don't care. I'm going to finish this degree. So I got like a bachelor's in business management. And still to this day, I'm like, that was not, I did not need that degree, but I did it for me. Cause I was like, I don't want to start something and not finish it. Like I have to finish the race. Right. And so what kept me going was I got married, right? Like. As men, we, you know, men are like trucks. We drive straight when we have a heavier load, right? There's a saying, it's like you drive straighter if the load is heavier. So like I have now responsibilities. I'm not single anymore. I can't just do whatever I want when I want. Like now I have responsibilities. We're married. We want to have kids. Like we have to, you know, we have a house now. We have a mortgage. Like there's all these things that came. So I knew Kevin, I was like, I have no choice. I have to make this work. It was kind of like a burn, burn the ships. and thing where like the ships are burnt like i have to i'm on this island i'm on this beach like i have to make it work so i think that was my motivation was literally just out of survival of like so i became obsessed like i told my wife my wife sometimes would tell me because i would work in the evenings and the weekends a lot and she was like you're working too much like you need to i'm like i told my wife i'm like laura i will stop when you don't have to work anymore like i will take it easy when we have enough income coming in to where you don't have to pay for all the bills so that was my motivation honestly, that's what like really kept me going. Yeah.
Speaker #2
Amazing. So it's, we, we learn about the why a lot, you know, that's a lot of the people will answer that question or a question similar to that been with like, well, this is my why, this is what I'm trying to create. So for you, it was starting a family, your wife, your new wife. That was your why. It's funny the way you described that I'm from Denver and I'm a big Broncos fan. Yep. John Elway is one of his famous quotes, Ben, is plan B. There is no plan B. Plan B is plan A. There is no plan A.
Speaker #0
There is no plan B.
Speaker #2
A is going to work. So that was you.
Speaker #0
That was me. Yeah. I was like, I have to make this work. That's it.
Speaker #2
All right. So I want to get into the lending and how you actually structure deals, because it sounds to me like you're a mortgage broker. Maybe you have direct access to money, like maybe direct to Fannie or something like that. But You also said that you can get creative and you learned that from your parents growing up. So tell me a little bit more about that. How do you become creative in lending when you're kind of stuck in the box?
Speaker #0
So there's a couple ways you can become creative when it comes to lending in real estate. The first way would be. knowing the game and what rules to like mend or like get exceptions on. Right. So like knowing how to fight underwriting to get what you want because you're kind of fighting a lot. So that's one way. Right. Being pretty stubborn and pretty like adamant about making your argument to the underwriters of, hey, I think this is the case here. Like this were were in the right, which obviously doesn't always work. But that's one way. The second way is really knowing the products available because most institutional lenders. whether it be direct to Fannie or not, are bad at marketing. They're bad at getting the word out. The reason why that's important, because they market to us. They don't market to the consumer per se. They market to us as the brokers, right? And so you have to go out and hunt and find these things, right? And find these products. And so that's what I would do is I would find very specific products that nobody knew about that would fit most investors where otherwise they wouldn't fit anywhere else. And then I would actually say a bonus, a bonus to that is like, I work with a company that's really bullish on technology and AI. And so we're doing a lot of like, we're coming out with a lot of no appraisal DSCR AI HELOC programs, or like you're literally getting your money in a week. As a real estate investor, you're getting a HELOC with no income verification, only showing bank statements, and you're getting your money from time today's Wednesday, you'll get the money next Wednesday, like in your account. Like that's how fast now we're getting. And like most people just aren't. Some people are catching up now, like that doesn't exist in other markets. So it's just really cool to be the pioneer of like beta testing these things and seeing it working. So I would say that, like, does that answer your question? Do you get what I'm saying? Right. Yeah.
Speaker #2
And I'm going to dig in here a little bit more, Ben, but yes, that does answer my question. So it sounds to me like you do it in reverse of what most mortgage brokers would do. So for the listener's benefit, what's very common in this industry is you would market it. market your company and then you get leads in and then you try to solve their problem, right? So they tell you, Hey, I'm going to buy this house. I'm a first time home buyer, blah, blah, blah. My credit sucks. So I need to find, and then you go out and find the product that fits. What you do is go find the product first, and then you go find the client. So in business, we call that a niche, right? You're niching down. You're trying to sell a very specific thing. So is that, do I have that right? Am I interpreting that correctly?
Speaker #0
Yeah. Sometimes, you know, like you still get the leads, right. And you need to fit, you need to play matchmaker with them and find the right thing, the right product. But still, that's what I did. You're, you're exactly on point. Like I knew the problems the investors have in working with them, growing up with them, talking to them. I knew the pain points and the issues, right. Which are, Hey, I have capital tied up. I need more capital. I don't want to pay off my mortgage during COVID. It's a very specific problem, right? It's, hey, I have a mortgage. Don't want to pay it off. I want a second lien. I want a line of credit. I want the flexibility of accessing capital. But guess what? No banks will lend to me because I don't have any financials on paper. Right. So I'm stuck. I can't do anything. I have to either do a cash or refinance and lose my 2% or 3%. So I found a couple of those products that solve that problem. And really, we told our team, we need to get the word out because a lot of investors are like, hey, Ben, I can't believe I wish I met you sooner. Like, I cannot tell you how many times I've heard that because of.
Speaker #2
like just what's available we're doing so yeah this episode is brought to you by pine financial group pine financial is a private lender specializing in short-term rehab lending to real estate investors got a property that needs some love we can help we are able to offer funding solutions because we raise private money from individual investors with more than 15 years of experience pine offers passive investors an alternative that provides stability consistency and security to your portfolio If you like real estate but want to avoid the ups and downs and effort, a Pine Mortgage Fund could be a perfect fit for you. Accredited investors will experience an 8% preferred return and profit sharing. Diversify your portfolio out of Wall Street and into Main Street with a Pine Financial Group Fund. To get more information at pinefinancialgroup.com, that's pinefinancialgroup.com. Yeah, because if you just go direct to Fannie, you're stuck in a box, but it's easy to scale, right? What you're doing is more client-focused. So it's a little harder to scale,
Speaker #0
but you're more It's hard to scale. Yeah,
Speaker #2
it's more of a relationship business approach. That's why most exactly.
Speaker #0
That's why most companies, most guys like me, they promote themselves to help first-time homebuyers because that business is scalable. Those are easy Fannie, Freddie loans. You can spend way less hours. But for these loans, for I need to spend a lot more time with the investors. I need to fight underwriting more. There's actually a lot of, it's a lot more work, but that's also why they don't want to do it, right? Like most guys don't want to do it because it takes more work. But I just grew up in that world. I'm just used to working extra and working hard. Like that's just life. And so, yeah.
Speaker #2
And then once you start learning these products, and it does change constantly, right? Bank appetites change, lender appetites change. And as it's changing and you keep learning it, then it makes it easier for you to help your clients and easier to help your clients. And it just becomes easier and easier and easier.
Speaker #0
Exactly.
Speaker #2
So what we're talking about, it sounds like a lot of non-QM lending.
Speaker #0
Yeah, that's a technical term. I avoid it, obviously, with consumers. I don't even bring it up because it doesn't mean anything. But yeah.
Speaker #2
I think it's important to mention here only because you see it in the news. So can you help us like describe for me what I'm talking about when I say non-QM and some of the creativity around those loans? I know you touched on it a little bit, but maybe elaborate just a tad.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So QM stands for, I believe it stands for qualified mortgage. I'm pretty sure. But you have like QM loans and non-QM loans for those that are listening. And that just means non-QM are just loans that like don't require the traditional full documentation that a regular QM loan would, right? So that could be if you want to buy a house that you want to live in, right? You can use business bank statements without showing tax returns. That's a non-QM loan. You can buy an investment property 20% down showing no personal income. That's a non-QM loan, right? I just have a client right now. She actually just went from W-2 to 1099 and that's actually a big red flag or a big no-no to... to Fannie Freddie, because once you flip to 1099, you need two year history and you tax returns. But I found a program where actually we can still use that income, even though she just went to 1099, which is actually kind of crazy. But that and that's not QM, right? So basically programs that are like, hey, we're going to charge higher rates to be a little bit more expensive. You might have to put more money down. Actually, I will say you'll have to put more money down, but we can still get you the financing, right? So that's in a nutshell, not QM.
Speaker #2
Yeah. And the DSCR is just all over the media right now. People are really excited about that. So I assume you do some DSCR stuff as well.
Speaker #0
Yep. That's our main bread and butter. Yeah.
Speaker #2
Okay, cool. So that's very specific to investors because you need income on the property to qualify for that one.
Speaker #0
Yep. And what's nice is even if it's vacant, right? Commercial lending, because we do commercial as well, five plus, you need to, normally you need to have income coming in from that property that you're buying, right? So I had a client that wants to buy a six unit new construction and he actually can't unless he gets a bridge loan. He has to get it leased out. Right. Or the seller has to lease it out. But for residential one to four units, DSCR, even if the property is vacant, the appraiser will assess the market rents and you can use that for income, which is kind of crazy. Right. So even if you just rehab, you could literally rehab a property, have no tenants and you can take cash out and, you know, use that for income, even if it's vacant.
Speaker #2
right yeah so it's very it's incredible um but for for commercial yeah different story yeah in commercial the dscr is based on net operating income so you're very bottom line in residential if i'm i don't do a lot of dscr so i correct me if i'm wrong here ben but it's it's on gross income right it's on gross income yeah so it's not assuming any expenses at all and which is no utility nothing just mortgage no vacancy done it's a and to make it even crazier I've heard of some lenders are so aggressive if it's a qualified borrower that they'll go under a one on a DSR, like 0.7, 0.8. So that, that is negative cashflow guys. And the, and the lenders are qualifying that.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So there are some programs where if you're below one-to-one ratio of gross rents, like, Hey, you could still do the deal. Right. It's funny. One thing I caution people. I have to take off my investor hat. and put on my lender hat. Like I have to keep kind of doing this back and forth because as an investor, from an investor perspective, obviously just because the loan qualifies doesn't mean it's a good investment, right? Just because the gross rents cover the mortgage doesn't necessarily mean it might be a good property. But then putting on my lender hat, it's like, yeah, hey, the loan qualifies, it qualifies. Well, what creative thing we've done is if it's below one to one, sometimes you get a hit on the rate or they want to see more money down. And so sometimes they change the restructure of the debt because of the risk involved. So what we can do is, you know, go interest only, do a 40-year DSCR, or we can divide up your assets for income. So there's a lot of creative ways to like offset the negative income. But yes, in short, you could technically still do it if it's on.
Speaker #2
That's crazy.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #2
So you mentioned earlier that you run some of your own events and that sort of thing. So tell us about that. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So I do a lot of workshops. I don't do virtual webinars really much. But what we're focused on is. like workshops in person in Chicagoland, where we'll have people come in and we'll talk about many different topics, but I always pick a specific topic. And so we'll do like, the last event that I did was how to buy real estate so you never have to work a job again. right? Nice, sexy title, beautiful title. And so we had real estate investors, actual active investors came in and our focus was multifamily. So how to buy three to four unit properties, because in Chicago, it's very prevalent and they're very, very good investments. So we talked about how to from A to Z buy these properties. And it was a very one-on-one workshop. Other workshops might be 1031 exchanges, right? How to leverage and utilize that correctly to be able to buy the next, you know, whatever. property you want to buy that fits that wheelhouse. So we do a lot of workshop educational events that intertwine like networking and then also, hey, here's some quick lessons and some high level tips that we're learning from me as from a lending perspective. And then also that investors are learning in that market and we make it market like friendly. So we talk about right now in that county, what we're doing, that's working. And so we've had a lot of great, Great feedback from that. Yeah. And I also avoid, I don't. allow attorneys and I don't allow accountants to speak. That's my number one rule.
Speaker #2
Oh, that's interesting. Okay.
Speaker #0
I don't. Yeah. Unless they have a terrific personality and stage presence. I don't, I'm so tired of events where the guy comes up for 20 minutes. No offense if you're, if this is you listening, but like, there's too many people that like, just because you know what you're doing, it doesn't also mean you should be speaking in front of people and you should be teaching and educating. Those are actually different skills. And I'll fight to the death on this. I wholeheartedly believe just because you are a great mechanic doesn't mean you can teach others how to be a great mechanic. And so I think in that context, I'm like, yeah, we need people that are comfortable speaking. They know how to communicate what they know in a way that's not like, hi, everybody. Today, I'm going to teach you how to buy real estate and how to finance or wholesale your next property. So today we're going to talk. You get what I'm saying, right? All right. Like that.
Speaker #2
I've had that. We might cut that out. Yeah. All right. So here I know we're interviewing you, but one thing that might help you with this is if you get speakers like that, but you want to extract knowledge from them, don't let them speak, but do like a fireside chat, sort of like what we're doing right now.
Speaker #0
Like a panel.
Speaker #2
Or a panel. Yeah. Because then you could really control it, you know, and you could still really add value to the room.
Speaker #0
That's actually a good idea. I actually didn't even think about that. That's a good idea. I'm gonna write that one down. Thank you.
Speaker #2
You're welcome. All right, man. So these, before we wrap up, I want to go through some notes. I like to take notes when I do a podcast like this. And I always learn something, Ben, and I want to just share with you what I learned. But before I do that, these These events, you know, I've got a lot of experience running these events and that's how I grew Pine Financial. So I'm just curious because you're just getting going here. What kind of a benefit are you getting for your business to host an event like that?
Speaker #0
Really? We just like how you, Kevin, get paid. We're not, you know, we don't get salary or stipends or speaker fees or anything like we, especially for our events. Like I charge just to cover costs, not to be profitable. I make money when investors are ready to do a deal and they need us for financing, right? So whether it be a DSCR loan, a HELOC, a DSCR HELOC, which is a thing, right? So that's when I get paid. So I do the events for the referral partnerships, for obviously the exposure for people to look at us and say, hey, this is a trusted team that's going to be in my corner that we can use. And so I've even been invited to speak at other events too. And so we're willing to do that and offer that because we want to provide value. I want to give as much as I can. And that's all. I give and I know that eventually it'll come back. Obviously, I want investors to work with us. That's how I get paid and put food on the table. But yeah, that's our primary goal.
Speaker #2
Yeah. So add value first, get value in return, sounds like.
Speaker #0
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker #2
Content-led marketing. That's great.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #2
All right. So let me go through my notes here and you let me know if there's anything that I'm missing, but I got quite a lot here. So I'm going to go fast and make sure that I don't take up too much time here, but you got a very fascinating story, Ben. You started off growing up in a household of entrepreneurs. You helped run your dad's company. You were in and out of fix and flips. In fact, you couldn't even hang out with your pals. It sounds a lot like the rich dad story, when you read that book. So you grew up in that and that really helped you because now you're motivated, you work hard. And so then we talked about you getting into real estate and specifically lending. And you said the one thing that really helped you when you were getting started is you can't control the results, but you can control the input, right?
Speaker #0
So what I wrote down here is you could control your activities. And then you went into more detail saying you focus on daily activities, stay keeping busy, but with money-making tasks, you didn't say that. That was my words, but just keep busy. You want to do daily, daily activities. And then eventually it's going to move the needle for you. And then you want to focus on things that do move the needle. So you didn't break it up as 80, 20. You broke it up as 90, 10. You said, I want to focus on the 10%. You want to take care of your clients. You talked about that. And as for real estate investors, your clients are your tenants, your contractors are your buyers for your fix and flips. They're your motivated sellers, right? So take care of the people that support you in your business. You don't need a degree to be a professional real estate investor or a lender. So we talk a lot on the show about that, surprisingly. Drive straight when the load is heavy. So we talked about your why and how you keep motivated. So don't. concentrate on what you need or what you want, but what's outside of you that will motivate you. And that's really where you're going to find some success. We talked a little bit about niching down and how you did that in your lending business. Every business can niche down. And I highly encourage that. Focus is the key to success. Know your client's problems. So that's sales 101. Yes. But if you don't understand the problem you're trying to solve, then you're not going to make any money. So find the problem that you could actually solve and then sell that. Um, it's important to work with a creative lender I put here. So you talked a lot about how you're, you're create a DSCR. He like, I've never heard of that. So clearly you're in the world of creativity. Um, events are great for referrals and generating business through networking and then value first add value before you expect value. So how did I do?
Speaker #1
Yeah, perfect. Perfect.
Speaker #0
All right, cool. So... what are you looking for? Like how does someone listening to this? We have some clients, it's national, but mostly in Minnesota, Colorado, you know, the markets that we work in. So how can they work with you? What are you looking for? Give us your pitch.
Speaker #1
Yeah. So I appreciate it, Kevin. Thank you, by the way, for letting me do this. But yeah, I'm looking for real estate investors, small to intermediate or beginner to intermediate, even if you have a hundred doors, right? But investors that... basically need capital, need financing to scale their portfolio and buy the next deal, whether that be extracting equity capital without paying off the first loans, the first liens on their rentals, or even primaries, or buying more properties as long as they have the down payment that, you know, 20% down buying three unit, four unit buildings, single family homes, you know, whatever the case might be. So any investors that are looking to create like leverage equity and buy more real estate, like that's where we come in. and we'll help them get the financing for it. Yeah. And I have a YouTube channel, Funding Freedom. That's like where, that's where most of my content and resources live, Kevin. So like if people want to learn more about, you can go on my website, fundingfreedom.net. But if you want to go to like see the videos, Funding Freedom, Ben Steff, like you'll find it on YouTube. And we just cover a lot of really helpful content that I wish I saw more of that doesn't, that really didn't exist. And so, yeah, to help you as an investor understand your options. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So the call to action here for the listener is go to the YouTube channel, Funding Freedom Ben Steff. We'll put that in the show notes. So you're national then? You'll land all over the country?
Speaker #1
Yep. Except like,
Speaker #0
I think New York and Alaska,
Speaker #1
like the weird states. But yeah, pretty much.
Speaker #0
California, New York, you know, we beat them up a little bit on this show. So I can understand that. Yeah. All right, cool. So anything else? Like, how do we get ahold of you? Just go to the YouTube channel? Anything else you'd like to?
Speaker #1
That's it. Because my contact info is there, guys. You can book a call with me. At the time of this recording, I am opening up my calendar for people to book directly until I get too busy. And so if you want direct access to me, that's one way. Or you can shoot me an email. You can send me an email or book a call. All my info will be on the YouTube channel or on the website. So you'll find it there.
Speaker #0
Okay, cool. What's one final piece of advice, man, before I let you go for someone who's maybe just kind of getting going like you were six years ago? Focus.
Speaker #1
That's my piece of advice. If you're a new real estate investor, stop implementing 30 ideas at the same time. If you're going to do something, stick with it and stick with it for a year. Stop changing lanes. If you're going to flip condos, flip condos. If you're going to invest in Minnesota, invest in Minnesota. Pick the niche for you as an investor for your business and focus on that. And do that well. I have a guy that only looks at condos in a very specific area in Chicago. I have another guy that only buys single-family homes in different suburbs in Chicagoland, right? Another guy in Florida. I got another guy in California. There's endless options. I got a guy that does RV parks. That's his thing. He only does RV parks, right? So whatever that is for you, right? What's your unique advantage? So if you grew up in a certain area, that's your unique advantage. You know the area. If you have your dad as a GC, that's your unique advantage. Play off of those strengths. If you don't have any, create the unique advantage then, right? If you came from nothing. I would say that's probably the takeaway. Like just focus, pick the thing and run with it.
Speaker #0
Oh man, you're speaking my language, man. I love it. I preach that. Like, yes. What is it? The, what did the Fox that chases two bunnies get zero or something, you know? That's right.
Speaker #1
That's right. You can't catch two rabbits, you know, chasing at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So I totally agree with you, man. I know you're super busy. You're still working weekends. You told me probably Sundays also, you said Saturdays, but my guess is you probably do a little bit on Sunday also. So you're super busy and you still took 30, 40 minutes out of your day to hang out with me. So thank you.
Speaker #1
Appreciate it. Appreciate your time and for having me come on.
Speaker #0
Yeah, I really enjoyed the episode. For the listener, there's a lot of podcast options out there and you chose the Real Estate Educators podcast. And for that, I am so incredibly grateful. If you got value like I did, help me out. Five-star review, share it with a friend, and I hope you make this day a great one. I really hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you did, please be sure to follow and leave a five-star review. Oh yeah, and tell a friend.

Description

Most investors focus on finding the next deal—but the way you structure your financing can make or break your ability to scale.

If you’re looking to grow your portfolio, unlock equity, or understand how successful investors think about financing, this episode is packed with valuable insights.

TIMESTAMPS

Connect with Benjamin Stef:
YouTube: Funding Freedom – Ben Stef
Website: FundingFreedom.net

Learn more about creative financing, DSCR loans, investor lending strategies, and ways to leverage equity to grow your real estate portfolio.

Learn more about Pine Financial Group:
pinefinancialgroup.com

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
I accidentally came into the business the same time everybody else was. It was kind of like real estate, right? Like where everybody was becoming realtors because at that time selling was so easy. Yeah, in the beginning it was hard because I wasn't getting a lot of results, but I was putting in the work, which is the most frustrating thing. When you're working hard, like genuinely working. I'm not saying you go into the office and you sit around for five hours watching YouTube, like actually working. and you come home and you're tired. Because as an investor, from an investor perspective, obviously, just because the loan qualifies doesn't mean it's a good investment, right? Just because the gross rents cover the mortgage doesn't necessarily mean it might be a good property. But then putting on my lender hat, it's like, yeah, hey, the loan qualifies, it qualifies.
Speaker #1
We were in negotiations, we're investing in real estate. They're winning, they're making money.
Speaker #2
What's up, everyone? Welcome to the Real Estate Educators Podcast, where we provide the education you can build on. I am your host. Kevin Amos. We are back with another exciting episode. We have a lender with us today. We don't have a lot of lenders join us on this podcast. So I'm excited to get to know you, Ben, Steph. So you've been doing this a while. And I say a while, like you grew up doing this. Your family was in it. You were out there rehabbing houses. You just told me before we hit record that you were helping run a glass company for your father. And then you got into real estate and then migrated like I did onto the debt side about six years ago, a little under six years ago. And now you're helping your clients structure the debt on their real estate acquisitions and their investment properties. So for the listener, I know you're going to love this episode. So five-star review, share it with a friend. Welcome, Ben.
Speaker #0
Yeah, Kevin, thanks for having me, man. I'm so excited.
Speaker #2
All right. Well, let's get to know you. I mean, I was excited to push record here because you started going into your store and I was like, whoa. This is a pretty awesome story. Let's have the listener listen in. So we talk about Rich Dad on the show a lot, Ben, and your Rich Dad was your dad. So tell us about growing up in a family that just was entrepreneurs and real estate.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So growing up, having parents that weren't born here, so coming from Romania, and then also having entrepreneurial parents, it was like a double whammy for thinking outside the box, right? So. they really thought outside the box. Like, and that's what I, that's what I grew up with. It was never like my dad sat me down and said, Hey, you need to think outside the box. Like it just, it was just the way of life. Right. And I've noticed that this doesn't exist really in lending, like, especially on my, like on, on our world where, you know, most of us is like loan officers and lending are trained to do the traditional, like box loans, conventional VA, right. All these things. And so what ends up happening is you get a lot of guys that like, don't know the investment side. And so I grew up with my daddy at a construction company, glass company. And so he was GC on a lot of projects. We did a lot of rehabs and flips and made a lot of mistakes on the flips, of course, right? Like bought our first flip in a horrible area that was like a nightmare. But all that to say is it was at the time I kind of hated it, because I felt like... I had to work weekends, Saturday morning. I'd be like, okay, I'm going to go do this with my friends. I'm going to go do this. My dad's like, no, you have to stay. You have to help me. Like we need to finish this project. Inspection's due tomorrow. And like, we need to come over and help me finish. And I'm like, are you serious? So it was just a lot of that growing up that I hated. But now looking back, I'm like, okay, I guess it kind of shaped me a little bit. But yeah, that was kind of the background. Grew up in that area and then eventually just landed in the mortgage world, started doing like normal loans. But then once I understood that game, I kind of flipped over to helping real estate investors primarily.
Speaker #2
Okay. I know you're in Chicago now. Did you grow up in Chicago?
Speaker #0
Yep. Born and raised.
Speaker #2
Okay. So you've been there the entire time. Yeah. I love Chicago in the summer.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #2
You know, we do a lot of business in Minnesota, which is not far from there. And I know those towns right on the lake can get a little chilly in the winter. but so then you You got into lending early, like right in COVID. I'm just doing the math. I mean, that's right in COVID when you were getting going. So tell me about that.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So it was funny because I accidentally came into the business the same time everybody else was. It was kind of like real estate, right? Where everybody was becoming realtors because at that time, selling was so easy. You could get your license and do the buy sales side stuff as an agent, not even investments. deals. Just talking about on the sales side, you could just probably do 5, 10, 15, 20 deals that year without any experience. And so I think similar to the lending side, refinancing was just so prevalent because rates were so low. But I didn't really know that. You know what I mean? I just got into the business because I got into it regardless of the rates. And so I started in a low rate environment, which I was upset because I didn't know. what I know now of how much more money I could have made, but whatever. So I got into that business and then rates went up and everybody quit. Like everybody quit. There was a lot of people that did not renew their licenses, both on the real estate and mortgage side. And so I had to learn in that time period how to still generate business when nobody wanted to get a loan. Right. And that was really, really hard. But then once I learned, I started to, my business actually took off in that time period. You know how like during the recession, it was like, You figured out how to make it work. Now you're like, okay, in any market, I can make it work, right? Exactly. When it comes to real estate investing. And so that's exactly what happened to me. Like I went through a really big storm where like people quit. I didn't make a lot of money, but then I figured it out. I kind of like, it clicked for me, like the formula and the game that I was playing. And then after that, I was like, oh, okay, like this is how we grow in this market. And so, yeah, we did like, it really took off in the second half of my career now. But yeah, starting in COVID. So it was crazy.
Speaker #2
So there's a lot to unpack here. I want to see what we could learn from you going through that, especially so young and so motivated. And you're right, 2022, I mean, we had 9% inflation, right? Now, it's no secret to anybody. Summer of 22 is rather tough. And then the interest rate hike came from there more. And for your benefit, the interest rates jumped as a percentage of where it started more than any time in history. So that had to be a challenging time for you. So what's a takeaway? What'd you learn?
Speaker #0
Um, you can't control everything, but what you can control are the daily activities, right? So if you're a real estate investor, what does that mean for you? That means looking for leads, looking for properties, right? Networking, finding new deals, right? If you're in the real estate business, that means, you know, if it's cold calling Fizbo's and expired listings, whatever the thing, the daily activity is like, what is the one thing? What is the one thing that moves the needle? We talk about the 80, 20, but like, what's the 90, 10 or what's the one 99? right? What's the 1%, 5%, 10% that does the 80%, 90% of the work and just do that over and over again and don't fall for the shiny object syndrome. So those were the lessons I learned. Stop falling for the shiny objects where you're just chasing every new idea. You're like, oh, I want to go flip condos now. Oh, I want to go buy four flats, right? Oh, okay. This like, I want to start wholesaling. It's like, dude, focus, like stop. Like these are the investors I talk to often, right? It's like focusing, but then doing the daily activities regardless of like what's happening. Because eventually the way this business is, it's just like you never, you can't like do something and get results right away. It's kind of random. Yes, there's some luck involved, but it really is kind of random. So you just have to like do the thing and then eventually it'll happen. You just don't know when or how long it'll take. And that's the problem that people have. They don't like that.
Speaker #2
So you often hear the harder you work, the luckier you get, right?
Speaker #0
The luckier you get.
Speaker #2
I sort of agree with you that it's random. I could see why you would say that. And it's not so random, man, because if you work hard, you're going to have success, right?
Speaker #0
That's true too, right?
Speaker #2
And the thing about business, any business, the momentum is real, just like in sports, right? As you start to build that momentum, you really start having success. Do you know or can you pinpoint something, Ben, where you saw that momentum shift from the struggle to like the plane is finally taking off?
Speaker #0
Yeah, in the beginning, it was hard because I wasn't getting a lot of results, but I was putting in the work, which is the most frustrating thing when you're working hard, like genuinely working. I'm not saying you come to the office and you sit around for five hours watching YouTube, like actually working and you come home and you're tired. And then you do the networking events from seven to nine. You do all that. You put your own events together because I do my own events. That was the hardest thing for me was working so hard and not seeing anything come in income-wise. And then it felt like a bubble burst where I just started getting a lot of deals. Just a lot. You want to say overnight because it felt like overnight, but it was because I had years leading up to that point of effort. and work. And it just compiled it just all converged at the same time. So I remember for me was like, end of 2024, I wanted to quit really bad. I was like, I got married, I wasn't making a lot of money. My wife was a teacher at the time. And so we were kind of like, using her income because it was stable, right? It wasn't a lot, we were using that. And it was very, very difficult. And then fast forward now, she quit her job, she doesn't have to work, which is such a blessing. It was so great. And then, but like, had I quit, it was funny because my business literally October, I was like, I hate this. I'm going to quit. I was looking for jobs, Kevin, I'm not even kidding. And then November of 2024, November, December, January, it just completely exploded, which by the way, is like a slow season in our business, right? Like traditionally doesn't pick up, but it just did for me. And that's when I was like, okay, I got to keep this momentum going. Like I got to keep going. I can't stop now. Because like it's working. It's finally working. I almost felt like an actor, Kevin. You know what I mean, honestly. Like I felt like an actor and I kept going auditions, I was getting rejected. No, no movies wanted to hire, like no director want to hire me. And then eventually I got like a big break. And then it just, from that point on, I just kept going it hasn't stopped since. And I'm like, yes, like this is finally it, you know? So, yeah.
Speaker #2
And then the referrals start coming in and you work with investors. So I got to assume there's some repeat business in there.
Speaker #0
A lot of that. Yeah. Cause I really take care of people. And I think people need that, especially in this time that we live in where people just aren't taken care of. Like when you come to my business, you come into my ecosystem. Like I'm going to make sure you as an investor, like you're coming into my house. I'm going to feed you. Right. I'm going to give you drinks. I'm going to make sure that you're taken care of. Like we're going to host you. That's how I run my business. And so, yeah, we got a lot of repeat because they were like, Hey, Ben's right. Come hell or high water. Like you're going to hear from me, whether it's good news or bad news. And I think a lot of people respect that, you know. Even if things are rocky, I'm never going to hide behind my computer or my phone.
Speaker #2
So I wasn't sure when I was listening to you, if I heard like what kept you going. So it sounds like maybe we just said harder you work, the luckier you get. Maybe you just got lucky in 2024 at the end of 2024. Or like, how did you even get to that point? Where's that drive coming from?
Speaker #0
That's a great question. So a couple of factors. Number one, I really don't like quitting. I finished college. I wanted to pay cash for college. So I would do it. I would do a year, take a break, do a year, take a break. So I actually finished college late because I didn't want to get loans. And at one point I was like, especially in our world, in our business, you don't need a degree. You really don't. To become a real estate investor, to become an agent, you don't. But out of spite and for myself, I did not want to live knowing that I started college and quit, even though it was completely useless for my career. I still went and I finished it online during COVID. I was like, I don't care. I'm going to finish this degree. So I got like a bachelor's in business management. And still to this day, I'm like, that was not, I did not need that degree, but I did it for me. Cause I was like, I don't want to start something and not finish it. Like I have to finish the race. Right. And so what kept me going was I got married, right? Like. As men, we, you know, men are like trucks. We drive straight when we have a heavier load, right? There's a saying, it's like you drive straighter if the load is heavier. So like I have now responsibilities. I'm not single anymore. I can't just do whatever I want when I want. Like now I have responsibilities. We're married. We want to have kids. Like we have to, you know, we have a house now. We have a mortgage. Like there's all these things that came. So I knew Kevin, I was like, I have no choice. I have to make this work. It was kind of like a burn, burn the ships. and thing where like the ships are burnt like i have to i'm on this island i'm on this beach like i have to make it work so i think that was my motivation was literally just out of survival of like so i became obsessed like i told my wife my wife sometimes would tell me because i would work in the evenings and the weekends a lot and she was like you're working too much like you need to i'm like i told my wife i'm like laura i will stop when you don't have to work anymore like i will take it easy when we have enough income coming in to where you don't have to pay for all the bills so that was my motivation honestly, that's what like really kept me going. Yeah.
Speaker #2
Amazing. So it's, we, we learn about the why a lot, you know, that's a lot of the people will answer that question or a question similar to that been with like, well, this is my why, this is what I'm trying to create. So for you, it was starting a family, your wife, your new wife. That was your why. It's funny the way you described that I'm from Denver and I'm a big Broncos fan. Yep. John Elway is one of his famous quotes, Ben, is plan B. There is no plan B. Plan B is plan A. There is no plan A.
Speaker #0
There is no plan B.
Speaker #2
A is going to work. So that was you.
Speaker #0
That was me. Yeah. I was like, I have to make this work. That's it.
Speaker #2
All right. So I want to get into the lending and how you actually structure deals, because it sounds to me like you're a mortgage broker. Maybe you have direct access to money, like maybe direct to Fannie or something like that. But You also said that you can get creative and you learned that from your parents growing up. So tell me a little bit more about that. How do you become creative in lending when you're kind of stuck in the box?
Speaker #0
So there's a couple ways you can become creative when it comes to lending in real estate. The first way would be. knowing the game and what rules to like mend or like get exceptions on. Right. So like knowing how to fight underwriting to get what you want because you're kind of fighting a lot. So that's one way. Right. Being pretty stubborn and pretty like adamant about making your argument to the underwriters of, hey, I think this is the case here. Like this were were in the right, which obviously doesn't always work. But that's one way. The second way is really knowing the products available because most institutional lenders. whether it be direct to Fannie or not, are bad at marketing. They're bad at getting the word out. The reason why that's important, because they market to us. They don't market to the consumer per se. They market to us as the brokers, right? And so you have to go out and hunt and find these things, right? And find these products. And so that's what I would do is I would find very specific products that nobody knew about that would fit most investors where otherwise they wouldn't fit anywhere else. And then I would actually say a bonus, a bonus to that is like, I work with a company that's really bullish on technology and AI. And so we're doing a lot of like, we're coming out with a lot of no appraisal DSCR AI HELOC programs, or like you're literally getting your money in a week. As a real estate investor, you're getting a HELOC with no income verification, only showing bank statements, and you're getting your money from time today's Wednesday, you'll get the money next Wednesday, like in your account. Like that's how fast now we're getting. And like most people just aren't. Some people are catching up now, like that doesn't exist in other markets. So it's just really cool to be the pioneer of like beta testing these things and seeing it working. So I would say that, like, does that answer your question? Do you get what I'm saying? Right. Yeah.
Speaker #2
And I'm going to dig in here a little bit more, Ben, but yes, that does answer my question. So it sounds to me like you do it in reverse of what most mortgage brokers would do. So for the listener's benefit, what's very common in this industry is you would market it. market your company and then you get leads in and then you try to solve their problem, right? So they tell you, Hey, I'm going to buy this house. I'm a first time home buyer, blah, blah, blah. My credit sucks. So I need to find, and then you go out and find the product that fits. What you do is go find the product first, and then you go find the client. So in business, we call that a niche, right? You're niching down. You're trying to sell a very specific thing. So is that, do I have that right? Am I interpreting that correctly?
Speaker #0
Yeah. Sometimes, you know, like you still get the leads, right. And you need to fit, you need to play matchmaker with them and find the right thing, the right product. But still, that's what I did. You're, you're exactly on point. Like I knew the problems the investors have in working with them, growing up with them, talking to them. I knew the pain points and the issues, right. Which are, Hey, I have capital tied up. I need more capital. I don't want to pay off my mortgage during COVID. It's a very specific problem, right? It's, hey, I have a mortgage. Don't want to pay it off. I want a second lien. I want a line of credit. I want the flexibility of accessing capital. But guess what? No banks will lend to me because I don't have any financials on paper. Right. So I'm stuck. I can't do anything. I have to either do a cash or refinance and lose my 2% or 3%. So I found a couple of those products that solve that problem. And really, we told our team, we need to get the word out because a lot of investors are like, hey, Ben, I can't believe I wish I met you sooner. Like, I cannot tell you how many times I've heard that because of.
Speaker #2
like just what's available we're doing so yeah this episode is brought to you by pine financial group pine financial is a private lender specializing in short-term rehab lending to real estate investors got a property that needs some love we can help we are able to offer funding solutions because we raise private money from individual investors with more than 15 years of experience pine offers passive investors an alternative that provides stability consistency and security to your portfolio If you like real estate but want to avoid the ups and downs and effort, a Pine Mortgage Fund could be a perfect fit for you. Accredited investors will experience an 8% preferred return and profit sharing. Diversify your portfolio out of Wall Street and into Main Street with a Pine Financial Group Fund. To get more information at pinefinancialgroup.com, that's pinefinancialgroup.com. Yeah, because if you just go direct to Fannie, you're stuck in a box, but it's easy to scale, right? What you're doing is more client-focused. So it's a little harder to scale,
Speaker #0
but you're more It's hard to scale. Yeah,
Speaker #2
it's more of a relationship business approach. That's why most exactly.
Speaker #0
That's why most companies, most guys like me, they promote themselves to help first-time homebuyers because that business is scalable. Those are easy Fannie, Freddie loans. You can spend way less hours. But for these loans, for I need to spend a lot more time with the investors. I need to fight underwriting more. There's actually a lot of, it's a lot more work, but that's also why they don't want to do it, right? Like most guys don't want to do it because it takes more work. But I just grew up in that world. I'm just used to working extra and working hard. Like that's just life. And so, yeah.
Speaker #2
And then once you start learning these products, and it does change constantly, right? Bank appetites change, lender appetites change. And as it's changing and you keep learning it, then it makes it easier for you to help your clients and easier to help your clients. And it just becomes easier and easier and easier.
Speaker #0
Exactly.
Speaker #2
So what we're talking about, it sounds like a lot of non-QM lending.
Speaker #0
Yeah, that's a technical term. I avoid it, obviously, with consumers. I don't even bring it up because it doesn't mean anything. But yeah.
Speaker #2
I think it's important to mention here only because you see it in the news. So can you help us like describe for me what I'm talking about when I say non-QM and some of the creativity around those loans? I know you touched on it a little bit, but maybe elaborate just a tad.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So QM stands for, I believe it stands for qualified mortgage. I'm pretty sure. But you have like QM loans and non-QM loans for those that are listening. And that just means non-QM are just loans that like don't require the traditional full documentation that a regular QM loan would, right? So that could be if you want to buy a house that you want to live in, right? You can use business bank statements without showing tax returns. That's a non-QM loan. You can buy an investment property 20% down showing no personal income. That's a non-QM loan, right? I just have a client right now. She actually just went from W-2 to 1099 and that's actually a big red flag or a big no-no to... to Fannie Freddie, because once you flip to 1099, you need two year history and you tax returns. But I found a program where actually we can still use that income, even though she just went to 1099, which is actually kind of crazy. But that and that's not QM, right? So basically programs that are like, hey, we're going to charge higher rates to be a little bit more expensive. You might have to put more money down. Actually, I will say you'll have to put more money down, but we can still get you the financing, right? So that's in a nutshell, not QM.
Speaker #2
Yeah. And the DSCR is just all over the media right now. People are really excited about that. So I assume you do some DSCR stuff as well.
Speaker #0
Yep. That's our main bread and butter. Yeah.
Speaker #2
Okay, cool. So that's very specific to investors because you need income on the property to qualify for that one.
Speaker #0
Yep. And what's nice is even if it's vacant, right? Commercial lending, because we do commercial as well, five plus, you need to, normally you need to have income coming in from that property that you're buying, right? So I had a client that wants to buy a six unit new construction and he actually can't unless he gets a bridge loan. He has to get it leased out. Right. Or the seller has to lease it out. But for residential one to four units, DSCR, even if the property is vacant, the appraiser will assess the market rents and you can use that for income, which is kind of crazy. Right. So even if you just rehab, you could literally rehab a property, have no tenants and you can take cash out and, you know, use that for income, even if it's vacant.
Speaker #2
right yeah so it's very it's incredible um but for for commercial yeah different story yeah in commercial the dscr is based on net operating income so you're very bottom line in residential if i'm i don't do a lot of dscr so i correct me if i'm wrong here ben but it's it's on gross income right it's on gross income yeah so it's not assuming any expenses at all and which is no utility nothing just mortgage no vacancy done it's a and to make it even crazier I've heard of some lenders are so aggressive if it's a qualified borrower that they'll go under a one on a DSR, like 0.7, 0.8. So that, that is negative cashflow guys. And the, and the lenders are qualifying that.
Speaker #0
Yeah. So there are some programs where if you're below one-to-one ratio of gross rents, like, Hey, you could still do the deal. Right. It's funny. One thing I caution people. I have to take off my investor hat. and put on my lender hat. Like I have to keep kind of doing this back and forth because as an investor, from an investor perspective, obviously just because the loan qualifies doesn't mean it's a good investment, right? Just because the gross rents cover the mortgage doesn't necessarily mean it might be a good property. But then putting on my lender hat, it's like, yeah, hey, the loan qualifies, it qualifies. Well, what creative thing we've done is if it's below one to one, sometimes you get a hit on the rate or they want to see more money down. And so sometimes they change the restructure of the debt because of the risk involved. So what we can do is, you know, go interest only, do a 40-year DSCR, or we can divide up your assets for income. So there's a lot of creative ways to like offset the negative income. But yes, in short, you could technically still do it if it's on.
Speaker #2
That's crazy.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #2
So you mentioned earlier that you run some of your own events and that sort of thing. So tell us about that. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So I do a lot of workshops. I don't do virtual webinars really much. But what we're focused on is. like workshops in person in Chicagoland, where we'll have people come in and we'll talk about many different topics, but I always pick a specific topic. And so we'll do like, the last event that I did was how to buy real estate so you never have to work a job again. right? Nice, sexy title, beautiful title. And so we had real estate investors, actual active investors came in and our focus was multifamily. So how to buy three to four unit properties, because in Chicago, it's very prevalent and they're very, very good investments. So we talked about how to from A to Z buy these properties. And it was a very one-on-one workshop. Other workshops might be 1031 exchanges, right? How to leverage and utilize that correctly to be able to buy the next, you know, whatever. property you want to buy that fits that wheelhouse. So we do a lot of workshop educational events that intertwine like networking and then also, hey, here's some quick lessons and some high level tips that we're learning from me as from a lending perspective. And then also that investors are learning in that market and we make it market like friendly. So we talk about right now in that county, what we're doing, that's working. And so we've had a lot of great, Great feedback from that. Yeah. And I also avoid, I don't. allow attorneys and I don't allow accountants to speak. That's my number one rule.
Speaker #2
Oh, that's interesting. Okay.
Speaker #0
I don't. Yeah. Unless they have a terrific personality and stage presence. I don't, I'm so tired of events where the guy comes up for 20 minutes. No offense if you're, if this is you listening, but like, there's too many people that like, just because you know what you're doing, it doesn't also mean you should be speaking in front of people and you should be teaching and educating. Those are actually different skills. And I'll fight to the death on this. I wholeheartedly believe just because you are a great mechanic doesn't mean you can teach others how to be a great mechanic. And so I think in that context, I'm like, yeah, we need people that are comfortable speaking. They know how to communicate what they know in a way that's not like, hi, everybody. Today, I'm going to teach you how to buy real estate and how to finance or wholesale your next property. So today we're going to talk. You get what I'm saying, right? All right. Like that.
Speaker #2
I've had that. We might cut that out. Yeah. All right. So here I know we're interviewing you, but one thing that might help you with this is if you get speakers like that, but you want to extract knowledge from them, don't let them speak, but do like a fireside chat, sort of like what we're doing right now.
Speaker #0
Like a panel.
Speaker #2
Or a panel. Yeah. Because then you could really control it, you know, and you could still really add value to the room.
Speaker #0
That's actually a good idea. I actually didn't even think about that. That's a good idea. I'm gonna write that one down. Thank you.
Speaker #2
You're welcome. All right, man. So these, before we wrap up, I want to go through some notes. I like to take notes when I do a podcast like this. And I always learn something, Ben, and I want to just share with you what I learned. But before I do that, these These events, you know, I've got a lot of experience running these events and that's how I grew Pine Financial. So I'm just curious because you're just getting going here. What kind of a benefit are you getting for your business to host an event like that?
Speaker #0
Really? We just like how you, Kevin, get paid. We're not, you know, we don't get salary or stipends or speaker fees or anything like we, especially for our events. Like I charge just to cover costs, not to be profitable. I make money when investors are ready to do a deal and they need us for financing, right? So whether it be a DSCR loan, a HELOC, a DSCR HELOC, which is a thing, right? So that's when I get paid. So I do the events for the referral partnerships, for obviously the exposure for people to look at us and say, hey, this is a trusted team that's going to be in my corner that we can use. And so I've even been invited to speak at other events too. And so we're willing to do that and offer that because we want to provide value. I want to give as much as I can. And that's all. I give and I know that eventually it'll come back. Obviously, I want investors to work with us. That's how I get paid and put food on the table. But yeah, that's our primary goal.
Speaker #2
Yeah. So add value first, get value in return, sounds like.
Speaker #0
Yeah, exactly. Yeah.
Speaker #2
Content-led marketing. That's great.
Speaker #0
Yeah.
Speaker #2
All right. So let me go through my notes here and you let me know if there's anything that I'm missing, but I got quite a lot here. So I'm going to go fast and make sure that I don't take up too much time here, but you got a very fascinating story, Ben. You started off growing up in a household of entrepreneurs. You helped run your dad's company. You were in and out of fix and flips. In fact, you couldn't even hang out with your pals. It sounds a lot like the rich dad story, when you read that book. So you grew up in that and that really helped you because now you're motivated, you work hard. And so then we talked about you getting into real estate and specifically lending. And you said the one thing that really helped you when you were getting started is you can't control the results, but you can control the input, right?
Speaker #0
So what I wrote down here is you could control your activities. And then you went into more detail saying you focus on daily activities, stay keeping busy, but with money-making tasks, you didn't say that. That was my words, but just keep busy. You want to do daily, daily activities. And then eventually it's going to move the needle for you. And then you want to focus on things that do move the needle. So you didn't break it up as 80, 20. You broke it up as 90, 10. You said, I want to focus on the 10%. You want to take care of your clients. You talked about that. And as for real estate investors, your clients are your tenants, your contractors are your buyers for your fix and flips. They're your motivated sellers, right? So take care of the people that support you in your business. You don't need a degree to be a professional real estate investor or a lender. So we talk a lot on the show about that, surprisingly. Drive straight when the load is heavy. So we talked about your why and how you keep motivated. So don't. concentrate on what you need or what you want, but what's outside of you that will motivate you. And that's really where you're going to find some success. We talked a little bit about niching down and how you did that in your lending business. Every business can niche down. And I highly encourage that. Focus is the key to success. Know your client's problems. So that's sales 101. Yes. But if you don't understand the problem you're trying to solve, then you're not going to make any money. So find the problem that you could actually solve and then sell that. Um, it's important to work with a creative lender I put here. So you talked a lot about how you're, you're create a DSCR. He like, I've never heard of that. So clearly you're in the world of creativity. Um, events are great for referrals and generating business through networking and then value first add value before you expect value. So how did I do?
Speaker #1
Yeah, perfect. Perfect.
Speaker #0
All right, cool. So... what are you looking for? Like how does someone listening to this? We have some clients, it's national, but mostly in Minnesota, Colorado, you know, the markets that we work in. So how can they work with you? What are you looking for? Give us your pitch.
Speaker #1
Yeah. So I appreciate it, Kevin. Thank you, by the way, for letting me do this. But yeah, I'm looking for real estate investors, small to intermediate or beginner to intermediate, even if you have a hundred doors, right? But investors that... basically need capital, need financing to scale their portfolio and buy the next deal, whether that be extracting equity capital without paying off the first loans, the first liens on their rentals, or even primaries, or buying more properties as long as they have the down payment that, you know, 20% down buying three unit, four unit buildings, single family homes, you know, whatever the case might be. So any investors that are looking to create like leverage equity and buy more real estate, like that's where we come in. and we'll help them get the financing for it. Yeah. And I have a YouTube channel, Funding Freedom. That's like where, that's where most of my content and resources live, Kevin. So like if people want to learn more about, you can go on my website, fundingfreedom.net. But if you want to go to like see the videos, Funding Freedom, Ben Steff, like you'll find it on YouTube. And we just cover a lot of really helpful content that I wish I saw more of that doesn't, that really didn't exist. And so, yeah, to help you as an investor understand your options. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So the call to action here for the listener is go to the YouTube channel, Funding Freedom Ben Steff. We'll put that in the show notes. So you're national then? You'll land all over the country?
Speaker #1
Yep. Except like,
Speaker #0
I think New York and Alaska,
Speaker #1
like the weird states. But yeah, pretty much.
Speaker #0
California, New York, you know, we beat them up a little bit on this show. So I can understand that. Yeah. All right, cool. So anything else? Like, how do we get ahold of you? Just go to the YouTube channel? Anything else you'd like to?
Speaker #1
That's it. Because my contact info is there, guys. You can book a call with me. At the time of this recording, I am opening up my calendar for people to book directly until I get too busy. And so if you want direct access to me, that's one way. Or you can shoot me an email. You can send me an email or book a call. All my info will be on the YouTube channel or on the website. So you'll find it there.
Speaker #0
Okay, cool. What's one final piece of advice, man, before I let you go for someone who's maybe just kind of getting going like you were six years ago? Focus.
Speaker #1
That's my piece of advice. If you're a new real estate investor, stop implementing 30 ideas at the same time. If you're going to do something, stick with it and stick with it for a year. Stop changing lanes. If you're going to flip condos, flip condos. If you're going to invest in Minnesota, invest in Minnesota. Pick the niche for you as an investor for your business and focus on that. And do that well. I have a guy that only looks at condos in a very specific area in Chicago. I have another guy that only buys single-family homes in different suburbs in Chicagoland, right? Another guy in Florida. I got another guy in California. There's endless options. I got a guy that does RV parks. That's his thing. He only does RV parks, right? So whatever that is for you, right? What's your unique advantage? So if you grew up in a certain area, that's your unique advantage. You know the area. If you have your dad as a GC, that's your unique advantage. Play off of those strengths. If you don't have any, create the unique advantage then, right? If you came from nothing. I would say that's probably the takeaway. Like just focus, pick the thing and run with it.
Speaker #0
Oh man, you're speaking my language, man. I love it. I preach that. Like, yes. What is it? The, what did the Fox that chases two bunnies get zero or something, you know? That's right.
Speaker #1
That's right. You can't catch two rabbits, you know, chasing at the same time. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So I totally agree with you, man. I know you're super busy. You're still working weekends. You told me probably Sundays also, you said Saturdays, but my guess is you probably do a little bit on Sunday also. So you're super busy and you still took 30, 40 minutes out of your day to hang out with me. So thank you.
Speaker #1
Appreciate it. Appreciate your time and for having me come on.
Speaker #0
Yeah, I really enjoyed the episode. For the listener, there's a lot of podcast options out there and you chose the Real Estate Educators podcast. And for that, I am so incredibly grateful. If you got value like I did, help me out. Five-star review, share it with a friend, and I hope you make this day a great one. I really hope you enjoyed this episode as much as I did. If you did, please be sure to follow and leave a five-star review. Oh yeah, and tell a friend.

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