- Speaker #0
hmm how's it feel yeah it looks uncomfortable it's not comfortable then it's just just do like one shot of you doing that's it that's what i was gonna do yeah oh my god this is so great hey spider-man this is spider-man in china I'm back with me and trouble.
- Speaker #1
It's Robert De Niro, remember?
- Speaker #0
Oh, you talking to me, huh? You Venom, huh? You got great responsibility, huh? I don't see anybody else here. Huh? You talking to me? Huh?
- Speaker #2
Hello and welcome to Secret Identity. My name is Brent. Peter Parker is my favorite hero and don't tell me otherwise, Birnbaum. Joined by my co-hosts...
- Speaker #0
I'm Troy Bond. I usually say Brent's name when I do a intro. And he forgot mine, which is nice because I thought we were friends. I also got into an accident and too vain to show that I have a scar on my nose. So I'm wearing this mask as a sex thing.
- Speaker #1
No relation to the car accident.
- Speaker #0
I didn't get hit by a car.
- Speaker #2
And that was Slater Harrison. It wasn't Spidens.
- Speaker #0
It was a panic attack.
- Speaker #1
Still try to intro.
- Speaker #0
that was fantastic honestly for first intro 10 out of 10 fan forced second intro we don't count scott philcrow oh yeah well the judge said you can't uh today we are discussing spider-man life story um it's uh if you're a spidey fan which let's be honest he's the most famous super he's the superhero there's no other superhero that's more
- Speaker #2
uh recognizable or uh anybody could see themselves in as spider-man why would you argue it's my favorite hero i think he's probably the third most like recognizable hero though i think who else i think if you went to like superman yeah i think if you like went to like some person that's never like seen like a pop anything in pop culture and you said name a hero they'd probably oh like a real stupid guy yeah exactly i mean yeah it's not my word yeah so no i uh who would you say is two batman
- Speaker #0
You think Batman's more recognizable than Spider-Man?
- Speaker #2
I think so. I think it's close. I think it's those three.
- Speaker #0
I'm not arguing. I'm just, I want to know why.
- Speaker #2
I would say Spider-Man and Batman are probably similar levels. I think Superman is so iconic though.
- Speaker #0
What makes Superman more iconic than Batman and Spider-Man?
- Speaker #2
I think it's the longevity. I think it's the fact that he's the first hero. And it's also just that name, like Superman.
- Speaker #0
That is like the dumbest superhero name when you think about it.
- Speaker #2
Super name, absolutely.
- Speaker #0
Superman! So I recommended this week's book, Spider-Man Life Story. What is the bentectomy?
- Speaker #2
This is the mask looks funny.
- Speaker #1
You look like Owen Ted when they put the bear back together. And he's like. I was thinking like.
- Speaker #0
Spider-Man Life Story, which is a six-issue limited comic series by a guy named Chad Zdarsky. Chip Zdarsky. Chip Zdarsky, thank you. And Mark Bagley, our boy.
- Speaker #2
Literally, I don't think there's a Spider-Man artist I like more than Mark Bagley.
- Speaker #0
Even the hentai ones?
- Speaker #2
I mean, well, Mark Bagley has his own brand of hentai.
- Speaker #0
Oh, that's a whole other web he's shooting. And there ain't no shadows. um and this this story though why i think we both say is it's the best spider-man stories because it pretty much reimagines the life of peter parker and uh it's to your point where you're always asking you know is when in the continuity does this happen is there a continuity what's going on with this like this is telling the story reliving the life of peter as if he is aging in spider as spider-man in real time uh starting from his debut which was in 62 and um the series goes into spider-man's life and the the world around him and if each uh if each decade uh aligned with the actual events going on in the world and the run that was going on with him at the time right that's that's that's pretty much if i had to summarize it incorporating real world history and marvel events sorry you no when i saw 2019 i was like whoa this is trippy yeah right when i was a kid i used to think dc was rooted in realism but marvel incorporates cities like manhattan incorporates real life places to make you feel like it's something that could be happening outside which is why people love spider-man because his mask covers his whole face so anybody feels like they could be spider-man underneath that's why batman one was the batman was delayed so many times because batman mass it met shrek his mask would cover half his face you see spider-man ain't getting no kofi because spider-man His mask covered his face.
- Speaker #1
You think you would know, though? You think you would know who the person is based on just this?
- Speaker #0
No.
- Speaker #1
You wouldn't know it was me?
- Speaker #0
Unless you heard him talk.
- Speaker #2
It depends on the type of mask, I think. With Batman, I think, well, that's why he hides his voice. That's a great point. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Well, Batman's tan line should be a big giveaway.
- Speaker #1
Oh, your mouth.
- Speaker #2
You know my mouth. I'm taking a survey. I'm taking a survey.
- Speaker #0
She also watches this podcast zoomed in at like 20 times 22 so it's only mouth.
- Speaker #2
I know. I walked into this apartment and Slater just zoomed in on my mouth and I was like, what are you doing? She's like,
- Speaker #0
I'm definitely not trying to figure out what tooth I want to punch out later.
- Speaker #1
This is my special camera. I only have footage of Brent's mouth and I like to watch it.
- Speaker #2
I was wondering how I ended up on this video.
- Speaker #0
He's waited for a woman to say that on camera for so long.
- Speaker #2
Not under duress.
- Speaker #0
Without a gun.
- Speaker #2
This was a, well, I love most of your, I love all your comic book recommendations.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, careful, Morty. You might dislocate your elbow jacking me off.
- Speaker #2
Yo, what was that about jacking you off? Oh, jeez,
- Speaker #0
Spack. You know, like, I love to get grease, but, like, every time I say, you know, jack off, there's Travolta trying to fuck my, oh, jeez.
- Speaker #1
You guys doing a Dutch run or two each other?
- Speaker #2
Uh, what set off the tangent is on your recos to me. One of my favorite books you recommended to me was Fantastic Four Life Story, which was our sixth episode of the show. I love that story. I loved how the Fantastic Four aged in real time.
- Speaker #0
Thank you, comic book guy. It was episode six. Episode six. But, sorry.
- Speaker #2
Episode ever.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, no. Because that one was a book that a lot of people didn't like. And we actually really enjoyed it. We were like, am I out of touch? No, it's the children who are wrong.
- Speaker #2
I actually think that book is better than this one because I think it's more focused. But I like this one more because I It's a love story. It's such a love story to Spider-Man. And it's for guys like me who You see a guy A guy like me who doesn't get laid and just reads Spider-Man. It's like
- Speaker #0
He might be Genius like you.
- Speaker #2
The book
- Speaker #0
Why I agree with the betters.
- Speaker #2
The book is such a love letter to Peter Parker over the years. And what's cool is every decade reflects a big Spider-Man story. from that decade so from in the 70s you get miles warren and the death of gwen stacy in the 80s you get craven and the symbiote and like even in the 2000s was the death of gwen in the 70s that was in the 70s that's crazy to me because i thought it was it happened in the 80s when comics got dark but it's what kicked off comics getting dark it was officially they say the silver age of comics which is this kind of like uh idealization of super can you break down the different ages of comics now that you say that because that's an interesting thing that every it's been coming up a lot it's more psychic
- Speaker #0
this is all he wants to tell you about it's hard right now it's like him it's like the prehistory you know it's like what are it starts with golden right yes that was 30s golden is uh late 30s and 40s which would be what comics that would be mainly dc so superman batman greenland back when batman was a boxer exactly son of a boxer
- Speaker #2
And then we also get Captain America, the Human Torch Android.
- Speaker #0
So Golden Age is what year to what year?
- Speaker #2
I would say Golden Age would almost be like 38 to 60.
- Speaker #0
And that's Kirby years?
- Speaker #2
That's Kirby, yes, because Kirby and Joe Simon created Captain America then.
- Speaker #1
Parallel with like Hollywood.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, kind of.
- Speaker #0
Yeah,
- Speaker #2
exactly.
- Speaker #0
It's entertainment. You know, like after the Industrial Revolution, we finally had everything and people needed something to sit and look at.
- Speaker #2
One of the biggest stars in the world were Humphrey Bogart and Adam Adler, who was just very wonderful in every film role he was in. Mr. Potter.
- Speaker #0
After golden, is it bronze?
- Speaker #2
After golden, it's silver.
- Speaker #0
Silver. And then what years are that?
- Speaker #2
So silver is basically...
- Speaker #0
And what stories, too, if you could list off anything?
- Speaker #2
Definitely. So Silver Age is kind of in D.C. It's characterized by kind of silliness. kind of similar to the batman like 60s batman like exactly like 60s batman so like batman in the 30s and 40s was dark bat batman in the 60s is very silly like the tv show same with superman and the dc characters and then in marvel it's the introduction of the most iconic marvel characters so like avengers spider-man fantastic four and the x-men iron man iron man yeah and then after silver was bronze after silver is bronze so i'd say silver is probably like uh after gold d to like night mid to late
- Speaker #1
1970s after gold gold forgot and what is pirates gold pirates gold is a uh you saw the caribbean movies caribbean yo i'm like always looking for pirate schools do you say caribbean or caribbean i say caribbean i say pirates of the caribbean but then if i'm like going on vacation to the caribbean i say the same yeah i'm the same way like a liar that's
- Speaker #0
no sense this guy come from the universe where troy's talking i don't want to figure them out
- Speaker #2
it can get weirder right yeah dude you're not like sick you dick but your millennia is so fucking good right your peak right your peak shall we dive into the characters give us the characters who we deal with in spider-man life storm we've got peter parker spider-man we know who he is and he's aging in real time over the course of six decades we've got how old is he when this starts uh he is 22 well 15 and 62 and then it cuts to 60, so he's 20 when it's...
- Speaker #0
So 15 when he gets bit by the spider.
- Speaker #2
Yes, and the scene with Flash at the bar, he's 20. Yeah,
- Speaker #0
yeah, yeah. Beautiful stuff. I loved that stuff. I guess, like, was it 18 back then? I feel like the drinking age was 18 back then.
- Speaker #1
Oh, really?
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
That's how they got guys to sign up for Vietnam? Yeah. You get a lot of heroin!
- Speaker #1
You want to go where there's more drugs and alcohol?
- Speaker #0
And less rules?
- Speaker #1
And you can smoke inside, outside,
- Speaker #2
wherever. You can listen to as much John Fogarty as you want. It ain't me. It ain't me.
- Speaker #1
I ain't no prisoner, son.
- Speaker #0
I ain't no hobgoblin, son.
- Speaker #2
Next up, we have Mary Jane Watson, Peter's partner and eventual wife who supports him through the years.
- Speaker #1
Mary Jane.
- Speaker #0
Peter's Parker. She is.
- Speaker #2
Gwen Stacy. Peter's first love, whose death becomes a defining tragedy. Norman Osborn.
- Speaker #0
And Mary's greatest triumph.
- Speaker #2
No one's talking about how Mary's behind it.
- Speaker #0
Mary, what happened with Gwen Stacy? They say she fell off a bridge and died. They found her in the water. I said that's a strange place to find a body in the water.
- Speaker #1
It's funny. Everybody knows it. Uh-huh.
- Speaker #0
That's my shit. We love Gwen Stacy. This is bananas. B-A-N-A-N-J-S. But then, yes.
- Speaker #2
If I was a rich girl.
- Speaker #0
I could be a son of a... What I like about this is it haunted him in every decade.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. What's great about...
- Speaker #0
Because he's Spider-Man's villain. He is.
- Speaker #2
They basically picked two villains as the lifelong adversaries, him and Doc Ock. That was the right call.
- Speaker #0
And they handled... Yeah, he's good. Yeah. Yeah, the Miles set.
- Speaker #2
Save it.
- Speaker #0
Beautiful. He'll do it. Yeah, let's, yeah.
- Speaker #1
I'm trying to do foreplay.
- Speaker #0
No, it's great because this is.
- Speaker #2
How into it you are.
- Speaker #0
My problem with Miles and how.
- Speaker #1
Get your mouth, Brent.
- Speaker #2
Oh, God. Oh,
- Speaker #1
my God.
- Speaker #2
Flash Thompson, Peter's high school rival turned friend, whose death in Vietnam symbolizes the generational cost of.
- Speaker #0
Can I say something about Flash Thompson?
- Speaker #2
Do it, baby.
- Speaker #0
When he beat him up in Spider-Man 1 with Toby. Yeah, that's the day everyone finds out I'm Spider-Man. You ain't just going to punch me. Everyone's finding out that day. And come throw a pumpkin bomb at my aunt for it, pussy. If you got a problem with it. Well, these,
- Speaker #2
honestly, the movies, with the exception of the Amazing Spider-Man ones, they never get Flash right. Because Flash, truly.
- Speaker #0
He's a good character.
- Speaker #2
He's a great character.
- Speaker #0
This one, you cry for Flash.
- Speaker #2
Oh, my. He's.
- Speaker #0
Actually Peter's best friend and he's agent venom right agent venom.
- Speaker #2
He was venom in
- Speaker #0
Spidey big-time Yeah,
- Speaker #2
flashes goat has one of the best arcs because he is Peters bully and he loves spider-man He loves I love that and he grow and you find out the reason he bullied Peters because he was jealous of him of his Intelligent I thought because his dad went out to get a pack of cigarettes and never came back. There's that Peter Flash's dad did come back. I think that was the issue. I think Flash's dad was abusive. Oh,
- Speaker #0
shit. Yeah, that's a hard thing to deal with because then you got to fight him.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, exactly.
- Speaker #1
Give it all back.
- Speaker #0
That's the thing with abusive fathers. They hit.
- Speaker #1
They hit back.
- Speaker #2
Miles Morales, the new Spider-Man representing Peter's legacy.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, Peter, a black kid from the Bronx.
- Speaker #1
I'm still Spider from the block.
- Speaker #0
Don't be fooled by the docs that are... I'm still Peter from the block.
- Speaker #2
Reed Richards works with Dr. Octopus, a major antagonist who at one point works with Peter and Reed and marries May. He has an evolving sinister presence.
- Speaker #0
The sun's in Moses'place, wouldn't dude?
- Speaker #2
Next up, Harry Osborn, Norman's conflicted son who ultimately redeems himself through sacrifice. Ben Reilly, Peter's clone who carries on as Spider-Man during...
- Speaker #0
Andy Samberg.
- Speaker #2
Andy Samberg, that's right. Tony Stark, we know who he is, but he's a dipshit in this one. Like, there's nothing really else to say about Tony there. Moreland, I hate this guy. Also,
- Speaker #0
for the record, there's not much to ever say about Tony other than that. Stanley created him for the purpose of being that. He's supposed to be... Yeah, exactly.
- Speaker #2
Moreland, a devastating energy vampire. I've always hated Moreland as a kid. Me too.
- Speaker #0
He's terrifying.
- Speaker #2
Next up, oh, who's next up? Our fucking boy, Kraven the Hunter. A foe obsessed with hunting Spidey who bonds with a symbiote becoming Venom in this world.
- Speaker #0
What did you think of that?
- Speaker #2
Venom is really a 90s villain. He was introduced in 89, and the symbiote is a big role in the 80s. But yeah, Venom is really like a 90s character.
- Speaker #1
I was confused about that.
- Speaker #0
What?
- Speaker #2
About it not being Eddie?
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #2
They wanted to streamline it, I think.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. This is how do we tell the whole story, and how do we give the person who deserves the symbiote most the symbiote? And that's why Craven got it.
- Speaker #2
Next up, Miles Warren, who is always such a fucking perv. uh the geneticist responsible for the traumatic cloning of gwen and peter dude mouse i already knew the background of this because it's a big time right yeah yeah so i was like i was prepared for the scene and i still wasn't prepared yeah yeah so now you know yeah it's double down man like he was just like i wanted her and i was an old plan he's the creepiest character he's he's what i i'm glad they included him because he's one of the most iconic spider-man villains and he's never been adapted on the big screen yeah
- Speaker #1
i feel like i've only read him yeah like what like you
- Speaker #2
Really? We got Sandman before we got Jackal?
- Speaker #0
Street-level Tom Holland and make... You don't need MJ anymore. I love Zendaya, but we don't need her anymore.
- Speaker #2
Kellen Kline is Gwen Stacy, baby.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, have her be Gwen Stacy and then introduce Miles Warren because we can introduce Norman Osborn because we got him already in No Way Home. What are they going to do? He's going to always be suspicious of him, and it was perfect. Now is the Miles Warren time with Wilson Fisk.
- Speaker #2
I love... Wow, I love that idea.
- Speaker #0
Miles Warren for the first two and Fisk by the third one, you realize, has been bankrolling the Miles Warren experiments for so long. They won't hire me to write.
- Speaker #2
Kevin, listen to us. Last characters, Peter and MJ's kids, symbols of hope who inherit Peter's powers. Shall we start?
- Speaker #1
We shall.
- Speaker #2
Issue one. So Peter gains his powers and struggles with the dual responsibilities of being Spidey and a young man in a tumultuous decade. Flash enlists in the Vietnam War embodying the era's conflicting sense of duty and sacrifice. Peter fights to maintain his relationships with Gwen and Aunt May while confronting Norman Osborn as the Green Goblin.
- Speaker #0
Which is a constant theme of Peter Parker. His greatest villain is himself.
- Speaker #2
Exactly.
- Speaker #0
He'll never have his shit together.
- Speaker #2
It stresses me out. It's shit that we deal with. The chapter ends with Peter questioning his role. Can he balance his personal life and being a hero? Gwen finding out that he's Spider-Man and Norman loses his memory.
- Speaker #0
She finds out at the bar,
- Speaker #2
right? She finds out at the train station. right right yeah yeah and what happens with norman so norman and this was an iconic comic from this uh from the 60s peter fights norman norman loses his memory but uh peter goblin's still in him though he's lost the memory peter's like i can't just have this guy walking around so he calls the police and norman gets arrested yeah which thinking you're going crazy dude like could you imagine i kind of i have a little soft spot for him for norman yeah i think you're supposed to yeah okay
- Speaker #0
In the Spider-Man 2002 movie, when they take the company away from me, they're like, no, no, no, you can't do this to me. Do you know what I gave to this company? You look at it and you go, yeah, this is kind of fucked up that they're taking this from Norman. So he does what, it's like the whole going postal term, right?
- Speaker #2
And Norman, though, won't kill Spidey because he wants him to be his heir. Yep.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, he's like, you're my son. Yeah, exactly.
- Speaker #0
Norman also he has an obsession with Spider-Man because the spider that built him happened in his lab it's more of a paternal obsession whereas Joker is almost like a yes but don't you think he's a little obsessed and envious that the spider he was creating was the one that bit him yes I mean yeah no absolutely
- Speaker #2
I think that's certainly the most modern interpretation it's just like why did he get like this is my creation Why do I turn into a giant demon?
- Speaker #0
And every time he's tried, he's failed because he's missing the heart. I'm sorry, Zack Snyder.
- Speaker #2
Can you say that one more time? It's not the what that makes you a hero?
- Speaker #0
Could you say it one more time? Yes.
- Speaker #2
It's not the power that makes you the hero. It's the
- Speaker #0
Robert Wagner also being on the boat.
- Speaker #2
It's the arrhythmia that you have that's going to kill you.
- Speaker #0
I carried this power in my ass for five days.
- Speaker #2
Frankly, I have to say, this power is pretty good.
- Speaker #0
My name's not Frank, but I'll let you call me it.
- Speaker #2
How about?
- Speaker #1
Frank
- Speaker #0
A. What are we at, 70s? We're in the 70s,
- Speaker #2
baby.
- Speaker #0
Oh, 80s is my favorite book.
- Speaker #2
80s was my favorite book.
- Speaker #0
I love 80s.
- Speaker #1
They specifically focused on one aspect of his story for each decade.
- Speaker #0
They focused on what the story was in that decade.
- Speaker #1
Like the main highlight?
- Speaker #2
Exactly. So the main highlight of the 60s was Vietnam.
- Speaker #1
I was curious. Okay,
- Speaker #2
okay. 70s was Miles Warren and Gwen Stacy.
- Speaker #0
Those were the issues that were on the rack in those days. Did I just move it again?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I was just curious.
- Speaker #0
That's why these light stores are so great.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, no, they're awesome. I was just curious what made them pick each. moment to kind of expand.
- Speaker #0
They picked the best.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, I think Chip Zdarsky has such a love for Spider-Man. I think that's also why he picked Mark Bagley.
- Speaker #0
Has he written any of the Spider-Men?
- Speaker #2
Don't know, honestly. I think he's written Daredevil, but I don't know.
- Speaker #0
I saw Spider-Man. Clock out. I'll see you next week.
- Speaker #1
He just selected the crowd pleasers are the ones that are most integral to Spider-Man or both, I guess.
- Speaker #0
There's no difference because if you're a Spider-Man fan, you read every Spider-Man comic and that's why there's so much hate for so many Spider-Man writers. because when someone does something different with their character, they pretend that it's their character that they've just ruined. And I once heard Dan Slott say, I understand that hate because if you live a, you know, just life, and your one good part of your week is the Big Mac on Wednesdays, and then all of a sudden they changed your Big Mac into a quarter pounder with cheese, you're going to be kind of pissed that... That's not your Big Mac anymore. And he was comparing that to Superior Spider-Man. And you look back at that now, everybody wants more Superior Spider-Man. You and I remember when everyone hated that character.
- Speaker #2
It felt so derivative from Kraven.
- Speaker #0
Yes, yeah. But also they did it in a way that... I almost said Norman Otto. Otto learned something about humanity. Peter learned something about it's another great power, great responsibility thing. And I think that's the beauty of writing a character like this where Spider-Man is probably the biggest everyman superhero. Look at Batman. Everybody wants to be Batman but because he has no power so he seems the most attainable. But nobody has that vast wealth. Iron Man is left to paint.
- Speaker #1
That's a power in itself.
- Speaker #0
That's a power in itself. But you look at Tony Stark, who has that vast amount of wealth, but he's one of the smartest people on the planet. Like, he's a contemporary Richard.
- Speaker #2
No one wants to be Daredevil.
- Speaker #0
No, because they... It's not Benny Rand.
- Speaker #2
He's a blind guy that goes to church all the time. That's true. Danny's like, this sounds great. Next up is the 70s. So Peter is married to Gwen while working with Reed and Otto. Peter discovers that Miles Warren has been conducting cloning experiments, cloning Norman Peter, who is Ben Reilly, and even creating a clone of Gwen due to his perverse obsession with her. Norman is revealed to be Warren's benefactor.
- Speaker #0
I read Miles Warren's voice as Jordan Peterson in this. You can't take her. I have her cloned.
- Speaker #2
Honestly, it's pretty accurate.
- Speaker #0
You know, forget about spiders. We have to structure this around lobsters.
- Speaker #1
Twelve rules of cloning.
- Speaker #0
Here are the 12 rules of great power and great responsibility. Rule 11 is about cloning and post-modernism.
- Speaker #2
But yes, Norman is Warren's benefactor who's regained his memories. He manipulates events from prison.
- Speaker #0
Norman regained his memories.
- Speaker #2
Exactly. And he uses his regained memories to also manipulate Harry, who under his father's influence accidentally kills the real Gwen.
- Speaker #0
during a confrontation with warren because harry thinks he's taking out the clone but warren switched the clone and so harry's the one that kills gwen in this yeah and it's it's goblin who intentionally well i don't know if he had the intentions to kill her initially but i mean he threw off a bridge goblin had like he wanted to be a part of this in this story it's all warren goblin yeah clone me clone peter and warren's like and i'll clone gwen too and norman's like why listen baby I don't care what you do on your free time, but just make sure you do these two things. And gosh.
- Speaker #1
Would you clone someone if you had the power to?
- Speaker #2
Would I? Absolutely not. I think it's unethical.
- Speaker #1
Well,
- Speaker #0
yeah. It is because you can't clone a person. You can clone a person, but you can't clone humanity.
- Speaker #2
Yo, I mean like if you could like safety that like Norman and Peter clone that'd be great, but that Gwen clone yucky.
- Speaker #0
I don't even need to. If you give me the Gwen clone.
- Speaker #2
Disgusting. That blonde woman clone, I'm like not into that.
- Speaker #0
But I like the hole.
- Speaker #2
The hole was great. It's just if that hole looked like a penis, that'd be very cool.
- Speaker #0
Don't tell me more. Don't tell me more. Like did she have a cock?
- Speaker #2
Yo, like if she had a cock, I think I'd be into the cock.
- Speaker #0
I'd be like, hey.
- Speaker #2
Not the rest of it. Who am I, Eddie Murphy?
- Speaker #0
Listen, Shrek. First of all, I'll give a question. She said right home. That's all we were doing. And then she had a dick. So I said, I'm going to help you out. I know a good place to keep.
- Speaker #2
Wait, did I say dick?
- Speaker #0
This is all getting cut out. This is all getting cut out.
- Speaker #1
Getting into the transgender.
- Speaker #0
Also, no Kirby tier for this episode because of the sketches we're going to do.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, that's fine. Meanwhile, Flash dies. Meanwhile, Flash dies in Vietnam, which is a loss that deeply affects Peter and reminds him of the sacrifices others have made by the issues. And Ben Reilly seeks to make a life for himself while Peter mourns Gwen's death and grows close to Mamp J.
- Speaker #0
But they also did You're the Clone, You're the Clone, You're the Clone, You're the Clone.
- Speaker #2
They do that in the 90s.
- Speaker #0
And that's why I'm saying like, and yeah, I should have said that, but like, and this, they did it. So it wasn't Dick teasing you. So you would have to buy another issue.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. Also immediately go, okay, this was stupid. We know Peter was the real. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Cause it's a good story. If you take out the, uh, um, what's the show that ran way longer than it had to, because it didn't lost or walking dead. If you take out the, uh, include these mysteries just to include them. So people will keep watching next week. This is the best way to do it.
- Speaker #1
Say, because with those, you could feel it just being made up as you're watching it.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
J.J. Abrams, his thing. J.J. Abrams. His writing. I'm bored. Yeah. I love asking questions that never get answered. That's my J.J. Abrams.
- Speaker #1
That was good.
- Speaker #2
That was good.
- Speaker #0
Thank you.
- Speaker #2
I'm out of applause.
- Speaker #0
Don't patronize me.
- Speaker #2
Sorry. Issue 3 of the 80s. Peter is married to MJ, who is pregnant and gives birth to twins. Peter bonds with the alien symbiote from
- Speaker #0
Secret. Peter's shooting Webb from both ends.
- Speaker #1
A boy and a girl.
- Speaker #2
Like, oh my God. Which amplifies his powers, but also darkens his psyche. Kraven enacts his last haunt, shooting Peter and burying him alive before taking over Spider-Man. Peter escapes and confronts Kraven, but stops short of killing him. ultimately purging himself of the symbiote. As Kraven prepares to take his own life, the symbiote bonds with him instead, transforming him into Venom. Transforming him into Venom.
- Speaker #1
Nice. This is issue three, right? Dude, right in the beginning, that huge war scene that's like double page.
- Speaker #2
Secret Wars.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, that was so good. I looked at that for a while. It was kind of like one of those I spy books, you know, and then you like finally see all the other pieces and how it all works together.
- Speaker #2
It shows how good Secret Wars would have been if it was just two pages. Oh,
- Speaker #1
yes. oh that's funny because i get it yeah also uh i was telling him earlier when i was reading it i was like dude this is so crazy because they like dropped like a little doom line in there with reed richards and i was like i know what they're talking about because usually i'd read these and i'd be like what the fuck is that anyway and now i'm like oh it's all interconnected well it kind of like it's not the same universe as ff life story but it kind of lines up perfectly with it yeah there's like you There's just outer mentions of stuff.
- Speaker #0
You knew the context of the insult. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
like I understood something.
- Speaker #2
Because you read the books of Doom.
- Speaker #1
Finally got it.
- Speaker #2
You got it.
- Speaker #1
But it clicked, and I was like, oh my gosh, this is like, I know what they're talking about.
- Speaker #2
Well, you've kind of fallen ass backwards into reading a shit ton of comics this year.
- Speaker #1
You're like, who am I?
- Speaker #2
Become a comic nerd. What have I become?
- Speaker #1
I was a nerd in training. I think in the new year, I'll get my What Comes After white belt. Yellow belt. Yellow belt? Okay. Do you think I'm yellow? Maybe green? Maybe a little green?
- Speaker #0
No, you're yellow.
- Speaker #1
Green is high up?
- Speaker #0
Green's above yellow. You're not above yellow.
- Speaker #1
Oh, wow. Okay. So I'm just on step three.
- Speaker #0
Want me to give you a green belt test right now?
- Speaker #2
I mean, the fact that you know who Ben Urich is is pretty important.
- Speaker #0
That's not green belt worthy. I'll give you a yellow. I'll give him probably a green belt right now. I'll ask you a question.
- Speaker #1
I'm probably not going to know it,
- Speaker #0
but sure. Where does Spider-Man live? Queens. What part of Queens?
- Speaker #1
Did they say?
- Speaker #2
They don't say in this.
- Speaker #0
In this, but... Yeah, yeah.
- Speaker #1
Oh, in the regular ones?
- Speaker #0
Just every other Spider-Man issue ever.
- Speaker #1
Where in Queens? Forest Hills. Wow.
- Speaker #0
All right, you have your green belt. You have your green belt.
- Speaker #2
Your green belt.
- Speaker #0
You just got promoted. Wow. Holy shit.
- Speaker #2
That was very impressive.
- Speaker #1
It came up, too.
- Speaker #2
Wow.
- Speaker #1
I said it before it came out.
- Speaker #2
That was excellent.
- Speaker #0
That was... That was... Look at our daughters growing up.
- Speaker #2
I'm getting so fucked up.
- Speaker #0
No more crying through the fire.
- Speaker #2
Oh my God.
- Speaker #0
Rhoda has earned her green belt on this episode.
- Speaker #1
Gosh, it's a Christmas miracle. And a Hanukkah one.
- Speaker #2
That was fucking awesome.
- Speaker #0
I'm just seeing if I was recording. That was so good.
- Speaker #1
I'm surprised by myself.
- Speaker #0
That was, wow, I can't believe you got that.
- Speaker #1
I know, me too. It was outstanding. Looked down, because, like, I have notes, but I didn't say it. No,
- Speaker #0
you didn't touch your phone.
- Speaker #1
And I was just like.
- Speaker #2
First thing first, first of all, Uncle Ben.
- Speaker #1
It was like, that's so Raven, and I look into the future, you know, and I'm like, fourth too, but I went to the pad.
- Speaker #0
You looked at the future, you're like, I'm not going to have a career after Disney.
- Speaker #1
That's so Raven. It's going to be a good job.
- Speaker #0
What's Raven Simone going to do to me?
- Speaker #2
Not have you on The View. I don't even think she's on it anymore.
- Speaker #1
I don't think so either. But that was exciting to see it all connected to the bigger story.
- Speaker #0
This is the best issue. Because I've said before, the 80s are my favorite era of Spider-Man. And, like, I loved, again, that they picked the two stories that were most important to the 80s. Because there's a lot of stuff that went on in the 80s. Goblin, gang war. But they're like, you know what? Most important storylines of the 80s, Kraven's last hunt, black suit.
- Speaker #2
Yep.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Those sound like pornos. Hobgoblin, gang war. It's a lot. um hog hunter spider-man far from home get me home please help me somebody uh i like that they threw in thor for a quick second too that was nice oh and who else did they throw in in the 80s oh boy i almost forgot about this cameo oh
- Speaker #0
wait who else was in it was him and someone else did this this is such a wild cameo by mark bagley because it's the 80s and what happens in the oh yeah oh watchman was written in
- Speaker #2
Yeah, that was so great.
- Speaker #0
What's Rorschach in there?
- Speaker #2
A DC character.
- Speaker #1
I wrote that down in my notes, too. I was like, nice little Rorschach cameo with a sign.
- Speaker #0
I'm sure you picked up on that on your own.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah. The end is nigh.
- Speaker #0
The end is nigh. They could have just had the end is nigh, and that would have been a fun Watchmen reference. And the fact that they actually put Walter Kovacs in there.
- Speaker #1
I was so happy about it.
- Speaker #0
Because it's an L4. I know him. I know him. Bagley's like Tarantino. He's like, fuck you.
- Speaker #1
Rorschach!
- Speaker #2
I know him.
- Speaker #1
I know him. He was the best.
- Speaker #0
This is one of my favorite cameos in a comic.
- Speaker #2
This was incredible. This was good. This was akin to Wolverine being in X-Men First Class where they walked up to me and went, go fuck yourself.
- Speaker #0
A cameo.
- Speaker #1
So good. Also, why is Thor's text always medieval?
- Speaker #2
Because he's Asgardian. Yeah,
- Speaker #1
so they always do that every now and then.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Speaker #1
So I started reading and I was like, is this Thor? Because I was zoomed in.
- Speaker #0
Daddy Thor.
- Speaker #1
Ooh, look at that.
- Speaker #2
Got that thing on him. Got that thing on him. That's the end of 80s, right? That's the 80s. And then 90s we get.
- Speaker #1
Where he was going to.
- Speaker #0
Yeah,
- Speaker #2
yeah, yeah.
- Speaker #1
Self. Right. That panel right before.
- Speaker #2
Which panel?
- Speaker #0
So that was the first. That was the first. Yeah, exactly. That was the first episode we ever did of Secret was Craven's Last Hunt, which ends with Craven. Showing himself. Yeah. And in this, instead of before he can pull the trigger, the suit comes up.
- Speaker #2
In Craven's Last Hunt, Craven has cancer and he goes.
- Speaker #1
That makes so much sense. So he.
- Speaker #0
that's the crazy thing he doesn't in cravings last time but you brought that up on our episode and then he does in this yeah he does so i was like because i remember when you brought that up i was like because you you said you're like oh i kind of think he has cancer here and i was like oh i don't know i never read it is that and then i read this i was like oh him having cancer makes a ton of sense yeah 90s 90s uh 90s peter is running the successful company parker industries that that's what it's called right yeah yeah Otto captures both Peter and Ben Reilly, forcing Harry Osborn to assist him in creating a new body. Harry sacrifices himself to save Peter from Otto, leading Norman Osborn to reveal his manipulative role in the events before dying of a heart attack upon hearing of Harry's death. Because he's a shitty dad. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Well, that was karma coming back swift.
- Speaker #0
That's a great scene, too. He's just like such wasted potential.
- Speaker #1
It's like you had a son who loved you. I love how that's the driving force that makes him like you.
- Speaker #2
When Peter sang that to Norman.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, and they see his own son. I was like, oh,
- Speaker #0
that's a tear-breaker. What does Norman say? He goes, I hate you. He's such an evil, petty, pathetic person.
- Speaker #2
I think he just hates him because of how Peter can still be so good despite the demons he has, which is something Norman's never been able to do.
- Speaker #0
Great point. And Peter, Peter, at this point, this is the 90s. This is 40 years of this. And Peter's just like, I'm done, man. Because not only is he dealing with Norman and Harry's death and all this other stuff, Tony is trying to take over his company because Tony's a dipshit.
- Speaker #1
Well, it's also just like, how much can you sacrifice your whole freaking life before you're allowed to fucking have a little time off and be with your family? You know what I mean?
- Speaker #0
And he doesn't even have them. They left.
- Speaker #1
He's asking Peter's name. Like he missed the birth. Like he fucking.
- Speaker #0
Shut up, Peter.
- Speaker #2
My man.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah. Shut up, Peter.
- Speaker #2
you watch Breaking Bad same as the rest of us yeah
- Speaker #1
His whole life he's always battling what his priorities should be. And I'm like, you know what? He's getting old. Someone else come in, a young new guy.
- Speaker #2
That's why I love this story. You see the job age with him.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Basically says, he goes, if only I had a clone that looked exactly like me and had my intelligence. Oh, wait. Ben. But wait,
- Speaker #1
there's more.
- Speaker #0
Ben is just like, I've been living in anonymity. I want this life. And Peter's like, take it.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. I can gladly give it to you.
- Speaker #0
And I love how this arc ends. Ben basically becoming Peter Parker, taking over Parker Industries, taking over Spider-Man.
- Speaker #2
Peter's ruined his credit. Yeah,
- Speaker #0
he's ruined his credit.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, he spends all the loans, fucking taxes, everything.
- Speaker #0
Why is he buying so much shit at Hot Topic?
- Speaker #2
Because it was the...
- Speaker #1
Why are you goth again?
- Speaker #2
There's going to be a band called My Chemical Romance after 9-11. Just listen. Just wait.
- Speaker #0
When I was...
- Speaker #1
My Benical Romance.
- Speaker #0
My father...
- Speaker #1
Once told me.
- Speaker #0
Hey, talk me to the city to see the Black Parade. So, uh...
- Speaker #1
I hate marching.
- Speaker #0
I hate them. They're loud. Peter retires at the end of the issue. Oh! Loud! So carry on!
- Speaker #1
It's just like a little fairy dust.
- Speaker #0
Oh,
- Speaker #2
I thought I hit the...
- Speaker #0
Oh,
- Speaker #2
wait.
- Speaker #0
You hit the power on.
- Speaker #2
Oh, I did.
- Speaker #1
Whenever Brent touches, that's what the sound makes.
- Speaker #2
Unlike when he hits the clip.
- Speaker #0
And it's like, that's my butt.
- Speaker #2
More like my butt. Put a foot in your butt. I said, put a bumbee in your butt. I said, put Dr. Ock in your butt. I said, put Miles Warren in your butt. Everybody.
- Speaker #0
2000s.
- Speaker #2
Do you have electricity? Electricity for my bunghole? Tattle down, Peter.
- Speaker #0
uh you did nothing to stop 9-11 peter they actually but in this one they actually show yeah yeah which is nice revisionist history yeah yeah so yeah so 2000s uh ben riley's was spider-man and now he's not morland kills him uh
- Speaker #2
all lasted yeah yeah it was sad to watch ben have that that because like he just he's such a tragic character and And, but it's like how I felt about Kylo Ren killing Han Solo. You had to have that like moment to show this guy's a badass and he will do this. Like, like, yeah, I did. It was hard to watch Ben Reilly die, but it was very, very good way to introduce the dangers of Moreland. Because Moreland's whole thing is he feeds off of spider people, right?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, there's like a spider totem and he's an energy vampire. Yeah. But not as great.
- Speaker #2
So is my mother-in-law.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Where's Colin Robinson?
- Speaker #1
He's curious. He's curious, man.
- Speaker #0
Everyone should be watching What We Do in the Shadows. That show's amazing.
- Speaker #1
It's so good.
- Speaker #0
It's so good.
- Speaker #1
The movie was great.
- Speaker #0
The movie was great. I think the show was even better.
- Speaker #2
The show was much better.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, because they were just allowed to expand and they brought new characters. Oh,
- Speaker #0
dude. Laszlo's the best character.
- Speaker #1
So funny.
- Speaker #0
Laszlo Cravensworth. Yeah. But yeah, so Peter's trying to have his cake and eat it too. And by having Ben be Spider-Man. Well,
- Speaker #1
nobody likes freaking cake. What's the point of having cake if you can't eat it? Wise words of a fallen hero.
- Speaker #0
Who's the hero? Huh? Who's the fallen hero? No,
- Speaker #1
that's Jay-Z.
- Speaker #0
Oh, did Jay-Z say that?
- Speaker #1
What's the point of having cake if I can't eat it? Right?
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Yeah, the only rapper I listen to is Hoodie Allen. Oh, thank God. And Lil Dicky.
- Speaker #2
She sees himself in both of them. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
So the superhero Civil War erupts, pitting Peter and Captain America against Tony Stark in an ideological clash over hero registration. So while Peter's fighting Tony, Peter's children have to defeat Moralyn, which they do, and they showcase their strength. Yeah.
- Speaker #2
This is also a different age, Peter, than the one that went through Civil War, too, because that was very interesting.
- Speaker #1
I just love your excitement in it. Which I do! They do! It was a high octave.
- Speaker #0
I liked how they beat him. Like, the son is like, hey, I'm going to sacrifice my spider powers so my sister can kill him. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I like that. It was cool. Give her some light, you know?
- Speaker #0
And the issue really concludes with Peter embracing his role as father and mentor. But he's also reflecting on the enduring legacy. And he tells Cap, he's like, hey, our time is coming to an end. We just got to leave the world better off than it was.
- Speaker #2
We found it. Yeah. yes to the next generation and then that's why we get miles next you know we get miles next in the
- Speaker #0
2010s that's what he says in there too right he's like i used to have to help the world now he goes to cap he's like we're both old men now like our time is kind of coming to an end it's time for us to run for president Tony Tony wasn't such a dipshit and didn't cause a civil war.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, that's what happens when your character is based off of the military industrial complex.
- Speaker #0
Fair point. And so issue six, we don't see him. But of course, Dr. Doom threatens to take over the world because he's doom following the fallout from civil war. So Peter is the one leading the resistance against doom as he and Miles take over a space station to stop him. Peter finally defeats Craven,
- Speaker #2
who's in the space station. That's a space station.
- Speaker #1
That's one small step for Spider-Man.
- Speaker #0
Of course I know.
- Speaker #1
A huge step for the next generation.
- Speaker #2
Of course I know Doom.
- Speaker #0
Of course I know him.
- Speaker #2
He's me. Of course I know him. He's Kraven. I haven't gone by the name of Peter Parker since oh well before 9-11.
- Speaker #0
I was looking at our first episode of Kraven's Last Hunt, and I was looking at the comments, and there was one comment that was like, White Castle can't miss out on the Kraven movie to do a Kraven. uh crave case i was like that comment's amazing and i looked at who made the comment fred skull will diamond oh it was before so peter defeats craven in the station and he confronts otto who's really manipulated events to secure his superiority as spider-man because otto's plan is he wants to kill peter and he wants to be the one to stop doom so octavius transfers his consciousness into miles morales's body temporarily succeeding his plans this is a cool subversion of that story because he did blackface That is true. That is a good point. He does do that. So Otto, in addition to being a villain, is also a problematic racist.
- Speaker #1
He's got a lot to work on.
- Speaker #0
But I did like the subversion of him taking over Miles Morales. Yeah,
- Speaker #2
that was cool. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
- Speaker #0
Why did he take over you? You're fucking over me.
- Speaker #2
You're done,
- Speaker #1
yeah. And until he called him Parker. Yes. And I was like, huh.
- Speaker #0
And his giveaway was he called Craven Sergei. And he's like, why would you call by his first name? And he called
- Speaker #2
Miles'dad. What the hell are you doing in this neighborhood?
- Speaker #1
Call me by my name.
- Speaker #0
Boy.
- Speaker #2
All right, I'll cut that out. You got a couple of diversions.
- Speaker #0
You don't respond in a certain way to that.
- Speaker #2
I know.
- Speaker #1
Well, I was telling him earlier, there were a Return of the Jedi shout-out in there, a little dancing he wants. Yeah. And then he was, like, talking about how hard his life's been or whatever.
- Speaker #0
And that's what's great about this. Peter makes a sacrifice play. He stops the world from doom, and he ensures Miles reclaims his identity, and Otto's kind of left to rot as a shell of himself. And... And Miles tells him, he goes, I'm not going to kill you. I want to kill you for what you did. He goes, but Peter's the real hero and the world knows that. And Peter wouldn't kill you, so I'm not going to kill you. And the series really ends with Miles continuing the Spider-Man legacy, representing hope for the future.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, and him finally having a good dream about
- Speaker #0
Uncle Ben.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah, yeah, Uncle Ben. Gotta specify. A lot of Bens, a lot of Benjis. A lot of Benjamin Franklin.
- Speaker #0
That is true. There's Ben Parker, there's his son Benji, and then there's Ben Reilly.
- Speaker #1
And then there's Ben Urich.
- Speaker #0
The reporter. Yeah. Is he in this?
- Speaker #1
No, no, no, no. He's not. He's not. I looked. Trust me. I was like,
- Speaker #2
where are you going?
- Speaker #1
This is the Ben-tastic.
- Speaker #2
Hi, I'm a reporter.
- Speaker #0
And God, this, what I love so much about this book is, in addition to it being such a love letter to Spider-Man, is, I've said before, Mark Bagley is by far my favorite Spider-Man artist. So I'm seeing these iconic Spider-Man events drawn by my favorite Spider-Man artist. I'm seeing Craven's Last Hunt drawn by Mark Bagley.
- Speaker #1
It's everything you could have asked for and more.
- Speaker #0
And more.
- Speaker #1
Dude, the covers were sick, too. I like the solid color with the, like, it's almost like paint or charcoal, kind of.
- Speaker #0
And the alternative covers, too.
- Speaker #1
They're sick. Is that how they were in there?
- Speaker #0
This one I love by Greg Smallwood, who's another great artist, who's the artist.
- Speaker #2
That's a great cover.
- Speaker #0
Such a good cover. So 60s iconic, and he's the artist on the human Target, which is coming up for us on Secret Identity.
- Speaker #1
Ooh. We're coming for you, Target. Get your shopping done.
- Speaker #0
Oh, you're going to like Chris Chance later. yeah he's the daddy of all daddies i'm not i'm gonna like him guaranteed i'm gonna love him brent's warehouse brent's warehouse yeah just come to the basement we have more sales down here but yes this story was outstanding this was a great recommendation troy how did you find this um
- Speaker #1
the dark web
- Speaker #2
How did, uh, Midtown Comics Historia. I just found it. It ripped, it fell off the shelf. I'll buy anything Spider-Man and it just, it popped out to me and I read it and I, I read it for a straight week and then I gave it to everybody that I knew that was a Spider-Man fan because, uh, I am someone who loves to show people the nerd stuff that I like, but nerd stuff can be very dense and it's also not going to have the same impact on them. that it did to me or at least when i experienced it so like it's it i always wish that there was like a beginning to end syllabus of something that i could show people and it would include the key points in the the gist of of something and and life story always stood out to me because that's what it is it's it it really is nothing more than a love letter to spider-man
- Speaker #0
Which is amazing.
- Speaker #2
That's what I love about it. What were your takes on it?
- Speaker #1
The Arrow breakdown. Yeah. It's taking the best of each one.
- Speaker #2
Love that, yeah.
- Speaker #0
Totally.
- Speaker #1
For,
- Speaker #2
like... I think they should do that for every staple hero. They should do a life story.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. It's an open segment of those.
- Speaker #0
They've done it twice, and it's been amazing both times. Yeah,
- Speaker #2
it's amazing they've only done it twice because comics have been around. Fantastic Four. And comics have been around for so many years, and there's always a new... fan base going into it who don't know a lot about a character and you read something like this you go okay i have a grasp now now i can read whatever it's just telling stuff yeah people who aren't as like engulfed in it as we all know now yeah yeah um miss forest hills to read yes oh green belt where's my sash um
- Speaker #1
but it's it's a nice over like cast of the whole thing And then if you want to dive into whatever one, you kind of know where to look. It's almost like a little beginner's manual, too. You know what I mean? They should do that with a bunch of stuff. But for this one, I really liked it because I'm a sucker for, like, nostalgic stuff. You know me. I'm 100, so the 60s were nice. And I just like the simplicity of those eras, though. Totally. Like, how the challenges progressed as the times progressed, and the enemies and the battles were different according to that, like, timeline, you know? Which... It's also a relatable thing in life. Yeah,
- Speaker #0
and how, like, the more things change, the more things stay the same. How, like, Vietnam was such a conflicted time, and Peter's, like, asking Flash, why are you enlisting? And he's seeing Tony commit these war crimes while Kat is actually on the side of a lot of the natives of Vietnam, and then we're seeing that recreate itself in the Civil War in the 2000s.
- Speaker #1
Dude, yeah, history keeps repeating itself, and we're just, I don't know.
- Speaker #2
To repeat it, will you say?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, to stop it.
- Speaker #0
Those who do not study history.
