Transcription

• Speaker #0

  What does it mean to be a cigar broker? You buy and sell cigars, you distribute cigars, you broker rare things between collectors. What does that mean?

• Speaker #1

  In today's world in the cigar economy, there's essentially three ways you can do your business as a cigar manufacturer.

• Speaker #2

  It's some of our greatest ideas and some of the greatest people we know have come from sitting down and just talking, having a cigar.

• Speaker #1

  It's so little about the cigar that's so much about the story and who you're supporting. and what's behind that cigar, that it is about the actual cigar itself, as long as it's a good cigar.

• Speaker #0

  A decent lounge. What kind of turnover and sales per year and what kind of margins can it actually make?

• Speaker #3

  Your watch on marketing mistakes with Norm Farrar and Kevin King.

• Speaker #0

  How do you do it, Norm? How do you run so many different businesses? Without, well, I was going to say without pulling your hair out, but that's not the, I can't say that. No, but how do you run, how do you run so many businesses at one time? As an entrepreneur, you got Dragonfish going on, you got your newsletter, you got all your agency stuff, you got, you know, all this stuff. And then you still find time to smoke cigars and all that as well. How do you do it? I mean, most entrepreneurs, they have one business. That's what they do. They own a dry cleaning place and they go to the dry cleaning place every day and then they come home and they go to the dry cleaning place and they come home. But no, you got to wear all these hats and change your focus.

• Speaker #2

  57 out of them.

• Speaker #0

  I do the same thing, but I'm just curious from you because our guest today likes to smoke cigars and our guest today is running a lot of businesses at the same time and involved in the community, involved in running businesses from cars to cigars to... all kinds of cool stuff. How do you do it? Cigars. Cigars. That's what it is. That's what you're talking about. No, I don't think you're joking because you taught me that. Norm has been a big cigar smoker for several decades. I smoked my first cigar in Cuba around 2000... When was that? About 2010 or so. 2009, 2010. Occasionally smoked uh just socially or something, maybe once a year or something after that. And then when I met Norm at an Amazon event seven, eight years ago, we started hanging out at different events and started smoking cigars, and I still was only smoking socially. But Norm would always message me and say, hey, I got to break this call. I got to go out back and have a smoke. I'm like, okay. So he was smoking daily. And it wasn't until just recently that I actually integrated that into... into my habits where I go out on my balcony and smoke a cigar. And some of my best ideas on running the businesses and on running different things have come while I'm sitting there just relaxed smoking a cigar. So Norm, I have to thank you for teaching me a valuable lesson in life and in business that cigar smoking is how you do it. That's how you run multiple businesses.

• Speaker #2

  So are you telling me I had a good idea?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it's the second one of the decade. So you're on the table. But our guest today, I mean, is doing that well, but probably at an even bigger scale than what we're doing.

• Speaker #2

  Right. Yeah. So, I mean, no joke. Just like Kevin was saying, just to calm your mind down a little bit. Think about, you know, what's going on. And sometimes your best ideas come from taking time. Other people might do meditation. You can do meditation and smoke a cigar later. But what I find... is that going out on the balcony, you know, or patio, having a cigar, maybe two, you just get some of your best ideas. So we actually met our guests at the Big Smoke in Vegas this year and asked them to come on the podcast. So why don't we just get them on here? It's Brandon Wells. So why don't we bring him on? Here we go. Welcome, Brandon, from Cigar Mechanic.

• Speaker #1

  what's going on gentlemen happy uh happy what is it today tuesday it is it's a tuesday happy tuesday friggin snow day that's again i'm in phoenix arizona so i've been shoveling sunshine all day i apologize the

• Speaker #0

  knife you can take it right out of my back this is the best time of year or when it's not humid yeah uh yeah i live in phoenix or about a year, like 25 years ago. I just remember the best air conditioning was to roll your windows down in your car. I mean, you can go 40 miles an hour and roll your windows down. That was about as cool as you're going to get.

• Speaker #1

  You know, in the old cars, you called it the 240 air conditioning system, you know, two windows, 40 miles per hour.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, that's right. That's right. That's right.

• Speaker #2

  So before we, you know, get into... the cigar business, cigar marketing. Why don't you tell us a little about yourself? How did you get into, well, how did you create this cigar mechanic?

• Speaker #1

  I don't know. No, to be honest with you, I, it was during a time that I owned a mechanic shop and I was, I had, I had a mechanic shop. I had a nonprofit, I had these other businesses going and, and I had Instagram and all that stuff for all these places. I wanted a place to post one of my passions, which was cigars. And I wanted to be able to post some of these things up. And so I... Went on to Instagram and I said, oh, what about Cigar Mechanic? Let's see if that's available. And lo and behold, the name was available. So I got the Instagram handle and one of my clients was working on his truck and he's a graphic designer. He says, man, I got an idea for you. And he creates a logo to fit in the Instagram bubble, you know, where your photo would be. And it was the logo today. It's this Cigar Mechanic logo. And I think, oh, that's really, really cool, man. So I just posted it up there. And I was just I was really taking really crappy photos of cigars and over filtering them and people seemed to like it. And it was all on tools and cars and so cars and cigars. And it became a thing and that started in 2016 and it became a following and people were buying stickers and they wanted hydro flasks and different items that had this logo on it and they wanted to be a part of Cigar Mechanic, which I found interesting. And then you flash forward two years later. I had sold the mechanic shop and I was in between things looking for something to do and really finding my spirituality, to be honest, and struggling with my faith. And there was a moment when I had an opportunity, a guy that I've known through Instagram was in town and somebody said, hey man, you got to go meet him and talk to him. And there wasn't really going to be an opportunity. I had an eight hour job on the books that I was going to be doing for a car. And it got done in an hour and a half and done right, mind you. Like I didn't skip any corners, but in an hour and a half, this thing just kind of fell together and a buddy of mine was over and he says, I think God wants you to go meet this guy. And I was like, okay. So I showered and I'm on my way over there and I'm kind of having a mental breakdown in this moment in my life. And I was like, if you think you can do something with my life, go for it. I'm going to go meet this guy. And. We had a two-hour conversation and it turns out he was looking for a broker and I just kind of mumbled. I said, man, I've always thought about doing a cigar brokerage. And he's like, dude, fire it up. Give me the paperwork. You have my business. Okay, cool. That easy. That's right. Like, what do I do? I don't know. Okay, cool. So, like, to me, in my faith and my spirituality, it was a total God thing. All of a sudden, I owned a cigar brokerage. And Cigar Mechanic, that was my Instagram handle and was getting attention worldwide, became the name of my cigar brokerage. So I already had a logo. I already had a company. I already had all these things put together. I just had to put them together and make them an actual company. And that's honestly how all this started. It was just a total here you go moment. And that comes from years of becoming friends with people in the industry, though. and getting to know these people and them wanting to trust somebody. And after just a two-hour conversation, man, this business was started. And here we are. What is this? Seven years later or something like that? I don't know.

• Speaker #0

  Nine years. Nine years later. Almost six years. What does it mean to be a cigar brokerage? What does that mean? Someone listening, like, what does that mean? You buy and sell cigars? You distribute cigars? You broker rare things between collectors? What does that mean?

• Speaker #1

  Essentially, the way to dumb down my business is I drive around, smoke cigars, and talk to people for a living. That's really how I dumb it down. I'll let everybody know here that cigar smokers, it sounds great, but I'm willing to jump on that grenade for you. You guys don't have to worry about this spot being filled. I got it. Don't worry. But it really is. Essentially, what I am is a marketing company for cigar brands that don't have their own reps in-house. So today, in today's world, in the cigar economy, there's essentially three ways you can do your business as a cigar manufacturer. You either go the route of Padron, which doesn't work for 99.9% of companies where you just, we are this. And if you want it, you're going to call us and get it. What works for the other 99% of the people is we hire in-house. So I'm going to go find my own reps. We're going to pay them a salary, pay all their expenses. They get a little commission or bonus at the end of the year. And they're going to be focused on solely our brand and representing our brands, earning consumer loyalty and shelf space in shops. Or you go the route of a broker. You say, listen, we're not quite big enough. We can't afford to pay all these salaries. So we're going to hire somebody on a commission basis as a 1099. So we're going to look for a broker or a company that is going to represent not just us, but also other brands. do the best to represent us in the best light possible and essentially do what an in-house person would do but for multiple companies so we're a shared a shared marketing for different cigar companies hey

• Speaker #0

  norm you'll love this man i talked to a seller the other day doing 50k a month but when i asked them what their actual profit was they just kind of stared at me

• Speaker #2

  Are you serious? That's kind of like driving blindfolded.

• Speaker #0

  Exactly, man. I told them, you got to check out Sellerboard, this cool profit tool that's built just for Amazon sellers. It tracks everything like fees, PPC, refunds, promos, even changing COGS using FIFO.

• Speaker #2

  Aha, but does it do FBM shipping costs too?

• Speaker #0

  Sure does. That way you can keep your quarter four chaos totally under control. And know your numbers because not only does it do that, but it makes your PPC bids, it forecasts inventory, it sends review requests, and even helps you get reimbursements from Amazon.

• Speaker #2

  Now that's like having a CFO in your back pocket.

• Speaker #0

  You know what? It's just $15 a month. But you got to go to sellerboard.com forward slash misfits. Sellerboard.com forward slash misfits. And if you do that, they'll even throw in a free two-month trial.

• Speaker #2

  So you want me to say go to sellerboard.com misfits? and get your numbers straight before your accountant loses it?

• Speaker #0

  Exactly.

• Speaker #2

  All right. Now, is that cigar company that you're representing, is it in a specific country? Is there a specific niche? Or could you take multiple different lines from multiple different countries and sell their products?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, so I can essentially represent whoever I want. um as long as they want me so that that's the nice thing about it is they can fire me i can fire them i interview them just as much as they interview me they're hiring my company to do marketing so uh it doesn't matter really what brand it is or what country they're out of i own a territory so my main territory is uh arizona colorado new mexico utah nevada i do some of the brands in nebraska and wyoming since i'm kind of in the area i guess um If you've already driven 800 miles, what's another 400 to go to another state? That's two whole cigars, right? That's exactly what it is.

• Speaker #0

  You can't even use your glisteners to send you an instant Mars. That's four cigars away or two cigars away, right?

• Speaker #1

  That's how it people ask me, how long is the drive to Vegas? And I go, about two to three cigars.

• Speaker #0

  Or one lunatic. Or 100%. Or a lunatic.

• Speaker #1

  So I own the territory. I own the relationships with the different shops in the territory. And then I partner with different brands to represent those brands within that territory. So nobody can cross over with that brand. For instance, Casa Cuevas or, you know, nobody else can come into Arizona or Colorado or any of those states and represent Casa Cuevas. We would have to enter contract with each other and then they can come in and...

• Speaker #2

  hire somebody new what are you looking when you're when you go into that interview with that brand what are you looking uh out of them like what are some of the questions what are some of the things that you're looking for before you represent a brand that's

• Speaker #1

  a great question because i think a lot of people fail in this space um you know when i first started the brand i was hungry i needed income and I needed... brands to represent and so out of desperation a lot of people will will partner with just about any brand and without concern for integrity uh quality of product you know am i going to get paid all these different items that you you you have to be concerned with right because if i go and i sell ten thousand dollars of your product are you gonna write me the check in a month or two when that when the cigar shop checks clears are you going to give me my check and if you do is it going to bounce or is it going to be good um but one of the main things that i look at when i'm interviewing another company is one can i spend a week in a car with you if i talk with you and you're just so freaking annoying or your stories are you know misogynistic and just you know they don't align with my morals and values and i've got to listen to you flapping your gums for a week about crap that I just don't really care about and I don't want in my life. That tells me a lot about you and I don't want you in my car. So you're already off the docket and I don't care how much income you can provide for me. I'm not going to work with you. Are you honest? Are you integritous? Do you care about the customer? Are you putting them first or is it all about you and how much money you can make? And then one of the main questions I ask as a cigar broker, and I'll preface this, is as a broker our concern is that we can build ourselves out of a job so if i get a company that maybe is doing two three hundred thousand a year in this territory and we grow them to 1.5 million They're now paying me more commission than they would pay somebody as an in-house rep. And a company's tendency is to say, well, we don't need you anymore. We're going to go hire our own guy and save some money. So my question, my main question I always ask is, hey, when we hit a million dollars in this territory, and you can hear me too, I don't say if, I say when, because I anticipate that. But when we hit a million dollars of sales in this territory, what is your next step? And I listened for their answer, you know, and I could tell you without fail, everybody that I currently am partnered with, their answer was, how do we get to 2 million together? If that's your mindset, then I know that I'm not working myself out of a job. Now, there's a lot of people that I've fired and a lot of people that I've said no to that are big companies. And their answer was, well, then we cut your commission down. And then when we hit 1.5 million, I'll offer you an in-house position as if you're doing me a favor, right? Like, I'll tell you this right now. I am a horrible employee. I had Alec Bradley call me and they said, hey, man, we're looking for a company and we were referred to you and blah, And I said, okay, are you looking for in-house or for a broker? He says, we're looking for in-house. And I said, so is this call an interview? And he says, yeah, I guess so. And I said, well, can I start it? He says, yeah, start the interview. And I said, good. Let me start by saying this. I am a terrible employee. And I was just silent. And it's funny because he just goes, that's not a good way to start an interview. And I said, it is if I'm not looking for a job. I don't want to waste your time. I don't want you to waste mine. I'm not looking for a job. I'm looking to partner with companies that believe in me and that I believe in them. And if you're looking for an employee, I'm not your guy. I'm a terrible employee. And he's. was actually very appreciative and said, cool, interview over, right? You're not what we're looking for.

• Speaker #0

  When did you start smoking cigars? How old were you? Was it when you started the Dirt Company at 19 or was it after that? When did you actually start actually becoming a somewhat regular or semi-regular or casual smoker?

• Speaker #1

  So I was probably 20 when I started that. So 26 years ago. I tell you my first cigar was given to me by my dad when I was 16, I think. And it wasn't in the way that you think of like sitting in the backyard smoking together like, oh, let's have a cigar together, son. It was, he caught me smoking cigarettes. So they tried some reverse psychology crap on me. They said I wanted to smoke cigarettes because I wanted to be cool. And they said, well, you can do it. You just can't do it on our property. I said, okay. So I went to my cousin's house and was smoking a cigarette and he caught me. shredded my cigarettes i went home went to bed he wakes me up in the middle of the night with the biggest nastiest gas station cigar he can find and he says you either eat it or you inhale it oh oh man no i mean come on dude i'm 16 right i'm cool right so it's like oh i'll inhale it yeah no no they'll show you and a full boy man that thing it was beautiful oh boy

• Speaker #0

  Is that how you picked your neck up at 20?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's about 20 when a buddy of mine comes out and says, hey, man, you want to smoke cigars? And I was like, yeah, sure, why not? Let's do it. You know, we grabbed some cigars, went to the lake and we smoked. But the great thing is, is like now I look at my dad. I was fishing with him one time, smoking a cigar and he doesn't smoke cigars. He doesn't like any of it. And I looked at him and I said, hey, dad, you know, I was just thinking, how does it make you feel to know you introduced me to this? And he just says, I'm nodding his son.

• Speaker #2

  I was lucky when in one of my first companies, our receptionist, her boyfriend at the time was the rep for Monte Cristo in Canada or in Ontario. And he'd be dropping off cases. These are like these are the Cuban cigars, not the and not knockoffs. And so I was I was sort of. spoiled for about two or three years because I'd always get a case of Monte Cristo. If I ran out, oh, there's another one or, you know, some other Cuban cigar. It was, it was awesome. Now I do have a question about the evolving market. So if you've got a new company that's coming to, or if you're just talking to any brand, a newer brand, let's stick with that. And you know that this market is changing. So, you know, Big Smoke, they were talking about bigger cigars, oversized cigars. changing? It could be in tobacco. It could be in whatever. Are you asking those questions as well? Are you sticking with this or are you going to evolve? What are your thoughts on evolving? You know, something along those lines. So, you know, that if the market evolves, you're not stuck with X.

• Speaker #1

  No, that's not really something that I focus on because this industry is different. Now, if I was in some other widget, I would probably be concerned with that. But in the cigar industry, as you know, this is very much a relationship industry. And people may like, you know, they may like a larger ring gauge or, you know, whatever it is, right? You name it. But there's a market for every cigar that's out there as long as it's a good cigar. And arguably, there's actually a market for terrible cigars too. I see them all the time. But there's people that go, oh, man, I always smoked this. And you're like, bro, like... go cut your lawn and roll that up you'll have a back you know and make sure to get a dog turd or two in there you know but for flavor but that's the wrapper yeah the wrapper is dog turd and tonic you know but it's yeah it's i don't find that as as important because one thing that i noticed is i created my own cigar last year um and it was a blend that was already done but i created five sizes that weren't done in that blend. And we put them into a 50-count box, and I only made 50 boxes. But as a collaboration with Gran Habano, and it had my logo on it. And there's stores that I sold that packaging to that they didn't think they would sell, but they bought them because they were buying from me to support Cigar Mechanic. And what they didn't realize is that when they put that on the shelf, because of the time that I've spent with their customer base and at the events and making events. fun instead of just being a yard sale behind a table we actually have fun you know this is we're dudes primarily in this industry and if we're not talking to each other then there's a bigger problem right like that's really what this industry is about like we gotta sit here and talk crap to each other we gotta beat each other up a little bit have fun we laugh you know have some bourbon stay late whatever and so in those stores they put them out and that cigar sold i mean quick and they were sizes that they insisted they could never sell like a lancero or a Corona and they sold out and they're asking me for more. And that really just reinvigorated me to realize that it's so little about the cigar and it's so much about the story and who you're supporting and what's behind that cigar that it is about the actual cigar itself, as long as it's a good cigar.

• Speaker #0

  So packaging doesn't matter then? I mean, the nice boxes, nice labels. I mean, And I would think that's... A major thing. Now, to a serious aficionado, they're going to go for a stick that they know is good. But the average person that's not a huge cigar smoker, they're going to buy on packaging first, aren't they? Or on a recommendation from someone they trust?

• Speaker #1

  More so on the second than on the first. Now, where we have a major failure in this industry where packaging does play a huge, huge role is because we have so many hobbyists, not cigar shop owners and tobacconists. And we've lost a lot of these owners. They think it's a retirement gig, right? They think they can open a cigar shop and sit on a couch and guys are going to walk in. They're going to buy a cigar out of the humidor. And then they get grouchy when they have to get up and ring the register. And they're not actually tobacconists in their building the relationship with their clients and saying, hey, I recommend this. Hey, by the way, here's something new. Hey, you know, cigar mechanic is carrying this new line. You know, you should try it. That really is what affects a cigar. Most of the cigars that I've tried and really enjoyed is because I've been introduced to them by someone, not because I thought that the band was pretty. Now, that being said, there are lines like, you know, Rojas has the street taco line and that packaging just stands out. It's called the street taco and all the barbecue and the carnitas and, you know, the al pastor and the breakfast tacos. And you kind of like, you know, puts a smile on your face. You're like, I got to try a breakfast taco. But again, that's an emotional response more than it is just the packaging. And you can get that same emotional response from a relationship with the retailer versus just having a pretty box.

• Speaker #0

  I mean, we were just on a trip, Norm and I, in Tampa. We did an event called CMS, Collective Mind Society. And we had nine cigar smokers and we spent a whole weekend in Tampa. We're doing it again in February of 2027. But it was really cool. But one of the guys, we were talking, one of the guys said, have you ever tried the Davidoff Chef's Edition? And we were talking, he's like, they're freaking amazing. It's all these chefs that as you smoke the cigar, the flavor, you know, changes to these chefs. And one of the other guys walked in and they had the newest edition on the shelf, like two cases. He bought a case, brought it back out. And it used to like, what, 80, 100 bucks a stick or something like that? 300. 300, 300 is, you know, whatever it was, it was expensive. And just said, here, everybody, take one. But that's marketing. Not so much is that necessarily a good cigar or we're trusting one guy who said he smoked one, but that's the marketing of, oh, this must be good because it's Michelin star chefs and it's this cool concept and this cool thing. So, and like on yours, like you said, you have a badass cool logo. So, I'm wondering how many people bought it because it's a cool logo, because not knowing who the hell you are, just. just like you said on Instagram, people are going nuts over the logo there. So I'm just wondering from the marketing side, how important is that? Because like Norm knows, I collect some of the boxes. If it's a badass looking box, like the Tommy Bahama box or a couple of these others, I actually collect the box. I don't know what the hell I'm going to do with them. He suggested I make a table album or something. And that's probably what I'll end up doing at some point. But I'm buying it sometimes just because of that box. But I also enjoy the smoke.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I've found a lot of terrible cigars in really pretty boxes. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  they're added.

• Speaker #1

  And then I've found a lot of great cigars in terribly ugly boxes. But even like your story with the Davidoff, right? It's the story that sold the cigar. It wasn't the box that it was in. And for me, the Cigar Mechanic logo is recognizable. I'm the first brokerage ever to market my own brokerage. And so people, they know me. And the cigars that I did were sold only within my territory. And so everybody and the consumers have met me. So the cigar sold well because they associate the Cigar Mechanic brand with meeting me and times that we've had. I go out of my way to make sure that if a guy's having a hearse somewhere, I try to go and join that in Colorado one night, you know, and show up. Or I hang out at lounges for a longer period of time than what most reps do because I get my business done. And then... we're BSing with the customers or I'll work the humidor and have fun. So they've smiled and had a good experience, hopefully, with me, with Cigar Mechanic, wearing the shirt and I've given him a sticker. And so when that brand hit the shelf, they go, I want to support him. There's cigars that I love and I think are fantastic, but I refuse to smoke them because of the people that are behind them.

• Speaker #0

  Speaking of that, a lot of people listening to this may be like, oh, cigars, that's gross. But there's something about the cigar culture, about when you sit down in a lounge or you're, Norm and I have been at events and we go out, find some place where we can smoke outside the hotel or something. And there's something, a couple other people come up and it's an instant attraction. It's like, oh, do you mind if we sit with you and have a smoke too? We got a couple cigars. And you're instantly almost like long lost friends. And the conversations never get too, well, not one would say never, but. Most of the time, don't get too political, don't get too religious, don't get too whatever. It's just a chill thing. It's like an unspoken fraternity or something. There's something just about it. How do you describe that? Or how do you describe that to someone that doesn't smoke and doesn't understand it's not just about the smoke?

• Speaker #2

  Not going out for a cigarette.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, right. Yeah. When's the last time you saw a guy in the cold, like, sucking down a cigar as quick as he could on his 15-weeks, right? It's a... Is it bad? Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Try going out there and minus one. On the back of the ship. On the back. Oh, yeah. We'll tell you that story in a bit. But go ahead. What is it about the cigar, that unwritten culture, that unwritten bond, that unwritten thing that happens with cigar smokers?

• Speaker #1

  So it's a couple of things. One, there's actually a lot of medical benefits to natural tobacco and natural nicotine. And the number one... The number one cause of disease in men is stress. And the number one way for men to reduce stress, healthy, is through cigars. Because what it does is it forces you to sit down and build a relationship with a cigar. It forces you to sit down and slow your mind.

• Speaker #0

  and just relax for a moment. And typically, especially as men, we have a hard time doing that. I love something John Eldredge talks about in one of the books I read, but he says that any picture of a man standing still is just not a pretty picture, but you can have a picture of a beautiful woman on the beach and it's gorgeous. And you're like, check that out. But a man standing still just doesn't look good, but men in motion look good. And so we are typically in motion. That's just how we operate. But when we can slow down and just enjoy a cigar. It does a couple things. One, the natural nicotine is actually, you know, gets into your receptors and it actually reduces your stress levels, it reduces inflammation and it helps you just to slow down your mind. But in that time of smoking the cigar, I find that when I am jonesing for a cigar, it's because I'm mentally struggling with something and I need a good conversation. It's not because I need a cigar for a fix. So, what I'm addicted to in cigars is not so much the nicotine and it's not a cigar itself because I can go... I mean, I don't think I've smoked a cigar in like three days now.

• Speaker #1

  I'm there with you. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Right? But like what I do miss are the conversations, the camaraderie, the getting together. That's what I'm addicted to is the emotion of it. And when you're sitting in a room together, you have two choices as men. You could sit there and stare at each other awkwardly. And just can't wait till you're getting done with this cigar. But when you're not addicted to the cigar, then you're there for a reason. And so you end up striking up conversation. And hey, man, what's going on with you? You know, how are you doing? What do you do? Let me get to know you. And before you know it, this conversation has just led into either laughter or seriousness or tears, wherever it is, which rarely do I leave a cigar lounge going, man, that was a miserable experience.

• Speaker #1

  You know, Brandon, just what you said there about, you know, talking back and forth, you know, what rarely comes up, you might like 20 minutes into it, 10 minutes into it. But I don't often hear people talking about what do you do right off the bat? I hear them talking about other things, you know, and that's secondary. We're in a lot of other events that you go to and sit around. Second question out of your mind. or out of your mouth is, what do you do? And that, I think, is a huge difference. And you know what sucks? Is I'm in Ontario, Canada. And for some reason, yeah, it absolutely sucks. And they've closed all the cigar lounges. So it's outlawed. And if you want a cigar, you can go out on your balcony at minus 30 degrees and have a cigar. But it takes that away from you and the tobacconist. So that's the other thing. Like here, we only have a couple of good tobacconists. And it's weird because a lot of people, especially if you're new into it, they're just ordering online. I have to. I have to because I go to the States and that's where I buy my cigars usually, bring them back with me. But they miss that experience of going to the tobacconist. And that tobacconist has the knowledge of telling them, you know, what this is all about or try this, experience this. What are you looking for? And that's half of it when, you know, you want to go and have that conversation with that expert. You know, I really miss that when I'm going into the States. Like where I get that feeling is when I do go to the States and I get to the big smoke or I get to these other people. But one other thing I want to talk about. is the labels. So we don't, if we get cigars here in Toronto, they're all brown labeled. All brown labeled. We're not allowed to look at the cigar label. And this is another, I have a big pet peeve about this. The cigar industry, and this is just misrepresentation. You've got cigarette tobacco, which is light tobacco, completely different. It absorbs into your system. You inhale it. It's a pH level of under seven. Then you've got dark tobacco. And people really don't understand what you were talking about. I can guarantee anybody who's out there that's listening and is an anti-smoker is going to say, oh, that's tobacco. That's going into your system. Blah, But it's such a different type of tobacco. But we were kind of all put into one kettle. Those are the...

• Speaker #2

  It goes into your system if you're 16.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Or if you eat it or if you inhale it. Yes.

• Speaker #2

  If your client comes in the middle of the night and says, eat this, it goes into your system.

• Speaker #1

  That's a bit of a rant. But the thing is, I'd like to go. So we went to Quebec. We went to a cigar lounge, overpriced cigar lounge there, much overpriced. You would believe the prices. And they were all brown labels. Now, I wonder what the average is. in a regular cigar lounge in Austin, Texas, compared to the brands that are picked in Montreal, Quebec, because there's no marketing. The labels are covered. I wonder what that would be, you know? Or if they only buy a Padron, because people know Padrons or Cohiba. But it would be interesting to see an interesting stat.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, and I'm sure I could probably find out that data. The difficult thing is that you don't have the number of options that we have here either. And so you are looking at limited to, you know, Altidist, General, Drew Estate, you know, you got the Alec Bradleys, which are now General. But you're limited to what is actually up there because it is harder to sell the smaller brands in Canada. One, are you going to spend with your taxation up there? um and the limitations that they've put on you guys are you going to spend you know 35 40 on the cigar to take a risk or are you going to go to the one that you've always smoked that you know yeah at 10 you'll take the risk at 35 probably not right because you want to make sure you're enjoying that because at 10 you can say oh this was terrible put it out and go grab another one not so much at the 35 and so you It would be interesting to see. I think it'd be a little bit of a skewed experiment just simply because we're not just talking plain packaging versus open packaging. But we're also talking about limited in the products and pricing.

• Speaker #1

  Right.

• Speaker #0

  So I'm assuming I know you guys are limited to like me coming up there and doing an event and standing there and promoting our cigar line because they clearly think that, you know, every child in the state is or in the. area is walking into that store and buying cigars premium and smoking.

• Speaker #1

  You can smoke weed anywhere. It's fine. Like, don't smoke a cigar, but smoke weed anywhere.

• Speaker #0

  It's ridiculous. And the studies that come out specifically on cigars and raw tobacco, it's scary to show that actual nicotine, like from raw tobacco, from what we consume. Remember, there's only two ingredients in every cigar, right? It's tobacco and pectin. And pectin is a fruit paste you can buy at your grocery store and it's what they use for food glue. And it's literally fruit paste. It uses fruit to make a glue. That's all it is. And that's only used to hold the leaves together. Like that's it. That's all you have in a cigar. And when you look at the studies of raw tobacco. There's actually studies in other countries other than ours who were like, we're obviously have medical issues here, right? We don't want to cure people in the United States. We just want to take their money and keep them sick. But there's studies showing about how nicotine is actually a cure for a lot of things. During COVID, they were talking about using nicotine as a good way to get the vaccines and to help cure the COVID and to fight that. The first thing that a virus attacks is the same thing that is your nicotine receptors in your body. And so when you're providing that, I mean, I know a doctor that wears a nicotine patch every single day because it keeps him from getting sick. And he gets sick far less than he used to since he started having nicotine in his system.

• Speaker #1

  It's down to the marketing, doesn't it? So, you know, we're not we, but the cigar lobbyists, I guess. i i guess the i guess the us government uh is probably a little bit bigger than the cigar lobbyists and uh we it's it's the marketing like no matter how you market this you're gonna be the bad guy yeah

• Speaker #0

  yeah we have we have vapes running willy-nilly we got we doing whatever they want to do which we're finding adverse effects on weed um we go vapes popcorn lung and the way it's It's killing. And you're seeing. high school students standing outside their store sucking down or their school sucking down vapes like crazy you know it's like and yet we're attacking the cigar industry which we've made a lot of headway especially here in the u.s we've made in the recent years by having a definition of what a real cigar is and all that kind of stuff we've made a lot of headway But there's so much more to go and the damage has been done on a lot of society believing that this is bad when actually there's a lot of health benefits to cigars. Like, let's just be realistic about it. If you step away from everything you've been taught and you look at the truth, kind of like most things, there's a lot of benefits to it. You can't always just believe everything that you're fed. You know, it comes down to control. It comes down to dollars and dollars in control. They want their money. They want to control people. And that goes not just with the U.S., but all governments.

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• Speaker #2

  Another big trend in marketing right now, just in general marketing in general, is vintage. Everything is, you know, going back, the vintage look right now is hot. The vintage things are hot. That also applies to cigars too, right? I mean, not just... I know you do vintage cars, so you're familiar with that. But vintage can be marketed as not old, but as premium in a lot of ways. And that's what a lot of brands are doing now. Louis Vuitton's doing that, a lot of these guys. But you're starting to see some of that in the cigar industry too, right?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, somewhat. The cigar industry is so far behind, man. I mean, the way I like to explain it, and it's not going to hopefully I don't offend anybody. If you're offended, then I'm sorry. Grow a pair. But, you know, we're just a bunch of dumb guys, you know, selling tobacco leaves that are rolled up. And ultimately the majority of our cigar companies are just a bunch of guys that came from Cuba that didn't grow up running businesses and all, you know, we know what Cuba with Castro and how that's ran. So there's not a lot of like training and they were good at doing something and they were able to get out and do it and have created success. So. That being said, there's a lot of people that are pretty far behind the curve when it comes to marketing in this industry. Like it's still very, very old school. So I would argue almost every cigar company is vintage just in their thinking. So when vintage isn't cool anymore, cigar companies will start promoting vintage, right? Like it's just.

• Speaker #2

  Summer movie, what's it? What's it? Cohiba, right? Where the Chinese came in, bought it and like quadrupled the price or something are now selling it. as more of a premium, even though it's the same thing. And that's a marketing thing. What's mixing the old with the new, right?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And that doesn't affect us in the US, it does in Canada because the Chinese bought the whole Cuban market. So they own that side of Cohiba, not the US. There's two separate Cohibas, you have the Cuban and the US.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. typical cigar smoker is it you mentioned earlier it's usually a bunch of dudes i mean there's a few women in the space but it's usually it is usually male and is it typically a more successful business person is it the good old boy is it a mix i think someone told me once they was what's the guy that we met in uh at monte cristo norm uh and at the big rapido no doubt yeah he's like yeah the average smoker it skews higher income like 200 000 or something like that are um He was giving us some stats on it. Who's typically the target demographic for the average stick?

• Speaker #0

  Everybody. I don't see it. Now, if you're talking about typical target demographic for Davidoff, who tends to be a higher price, and yeah, you're looking at $150K plus a year income, blah, blah, blah. But just for cigar smoking in general, I see everything from a guy that just turned 21 and he's excited to go into a cigar lounge to... And that works part-time at Walmart. And this is his one cigar a week that he gets to enjoy. And it's a splurge to the guy that can go buy a box of $300 a piece cigars and not even bat an eye. That's what I love about this industry is you have the multi-millionaire, billionaires sitting right next to the kid that's washing dishes at the local Chili's and they're having a great conversation and you actually can watch in a lot of these times that younger person gaining knowledge and wisdom from the older individual and the older individual who's successful typically is gaining some humility and some other, you know, other parts that he needs in his life. And so you're seeing the two feed each other, but I can't say there's a, I mean, I see them all.

• Speaker #1

  And that's what happened.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I mean, I see a guy come in the humidor and I'm like, Hey man, if you buy 10 of my cigars, I'll give you two for free. And he's like, and I just, I can't afford more than two right now. I'm like, dude, no problem. Perfect. To the guy that's like, well, what happens if I buy a hundred?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. I'll give you more for you.

• Speaker #2

  You get four.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  But, you know, I'm curious about the quality versus price ratio. So you've got these cigars that are $10, you know, right up, $300. And, you know, are they worth it? And Kevin and I have talked about this a lot. a $300 cigar worth it? Or, you know, can you get $20 cigars that are awesome?

• Speaker #2

  What are your thoughts on that? Well, Norm, is a Year of the Dragon better than a little $10 stick? Well, I like my $10 sticks. You like the Year of the Dragon when you're not paying for it at my house. I really like them a lot. I have another.

• Speaker #0

  The answer to that is really actually quite simple. Value comes from the consumer. And so if you get more joy out of that $300 cigar than you do out of that $20 cigar or that $10 cigar, then yes, it's absolutely worth it. Now, me personally, have I smoked $10 cigars that are... 10 times better than the 150 cigars you know whatever oh absolutely like so to me in my mind the price doesn't dictate how good a cigar is however your palette's different than mine kevin you know you got each of your guys palettes are different than mine and where are you finding your enjoyment and where are you finding that value that's what i love about this is we're buying a product that's to be consumed so is the steak at your local denny's or whatever your local you know, inexpensive restaurant is, is that as good as a steak at Ruth Chris? That you paid $300 for your meal versus $20, right? Like some would argue that Ruth Chris is way better and I would probably agree with them. But some people like their local place better because of the experience or because of whatever they get from that, right? They walk in and they say, hey, Norm, welcome back, buddy. You know, do you want the usual? You know, and that makes that steak better. So it really is, I get asked that question a lot, but there's a reason why, you know, like I find the acid cigars to be just repulsive, but that doesn't mean that I got to bash people that smoke them, right? And I'm happy that people are enjoying the industry with us and they're smoking the acid, even if it's an acid cigar, they're still smoking a cigar. They're still joining the conversation. Just don't sit next to me and ruin my cigar. Okay, that's all I ask.

• Speaker #2

  normally i've just sat there and done the math you know that typical cigar takes 30 minutes to an hour to smoke um you know depending on the size and no no the number of things but 30 minutes to an hour is let's say it's a 10 or 20 cigar the margin on that i'm assuming is keystone i'm assuming they're paying about 10 bucks for that um to sell it for 20. uh you correct me if i'm wrong, but let's just assume that. That take, someone there that's not you typically don't drink as heavily when you're smoking a cigar. You might have a whiskey, you might have something there. But someone could spend three hours taking up a chair in a lounge and potentially spend 50, 60, 70 bucks. And the turnover in those lounges, some of these lounges like in Austin, they freaking close at like seven o'clock at night or eight o'clock at night. It's not like Tampa where they open it till one. It's ridiculous here. You can't even finish watching Monday night football. But doing the math on that, it's like, How are they actually making money? It's got to be people taking cases or regular customers coming in that are buying their supply from them instead of buying online from one of the mail order houses or something. Now, what can a cigar business actually, a decent lounge, not your mom and pop, but a decent lounge, what can it turn over in sales per year? And what kind of margins can it actually make?

• Speaker #0

  The margins can actually be pretty, it's funny because you're asking a cigar shop owner and they'll just complain. But their margins are far better than what I was making with the mechanic shop or some of my other businesses. It's going back to like the lounge concept, right? And is there value in the lounge? Um, are they, are they profitable in the lounge? No, it's a loss leader. it's, I don't think McDonald's makes money on the play place by the time they, you know, they have the expense of, you know, expanding the building, putting in the play area, cleaning the play area if they do. And, you know, maintenance, all that stuff, it, they don't make any money for the play place, but that's not the point of it. Right. That's an attraction. It's a added value. It's a thing that's given. It's a loss leader for them. And much like the same way that that's how cigar lounges are. It's a place for you guys to go and for all of us to go to have conversation, to build a relationship. And then the majority of the money is made on the guy coming in and buying and leaving. And at the end of the day, if you can have a lounge and some of them operate this way where there's just there's nowhere to sit. You come in, you get your crap.

• Speaker #1

  I'm in Canada.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And we have that in the States, too. Like some of our lounges after COVID, they never reopened their lounges other than for, you know. special people or private events or whatever, but they never reopened because there's not a profitability in there unless you're serving alcohol. And then that seat has a profitability. But, you know, the best way to make a million dollars in the cigar industry is to start with 2 million. And if you're not going to be a business owner, and I think that's what sets my brokerage aside from a lot of other brokerages out there, is that... People got into being a cigar broker because they thought it would be fun, not because they saw it as a business, as an opportunity to run a company, to do marketing and to build brands. You know, it's going to be fun to drive around and smoke cigars. I treat this like a company first, and then I get to sell something that I enjoy. But this is a business, and my business is relationships, and the widget that I sell for those relationships or to those relationships is cigars. And so it's a different level than where most people come in and they go, it's cigars, or this is my retirement. It's a place I can avoid my wife. And it doesn't work that way. And you might make your money to fund your lifestyle, but you're not gonna grow and become large. I think I heard a stat that if you're doing over a million dollars a year in the cigar industry or in a cigar shop, that I think you're in the top, like it was five or 10%, I can't remember, of all shops in the country.

• Speaker #1

  Wow. So that, when I go into a cigar lounge, when I go into just, a tobacconist and I check out their humidors, I don't know how they turn over their inventory. So I know in our business, which is an e-commerce, we want to constantly turn over our inventory to make money. And we've talked about it, like Kevin and I have talked about this, but you know, we're. Where do you make the money? Because there's so many different brands. People are looking for top brands. Usually they're usually big bucks. If they're keystoning it, there's a ton of cigar. And I'm sure there's spoilage too. You know, that if they're not rotating the cigars or if they're too close or too low to the top or to the bottom, I mean, there could be some spoilage there. I'm not sure, but it doesn't. makes sense to me that you can have that big of inventory and still make a profit. Like how do you turn over the inventory?

• Speaker #0

  You know, the ideal is to turn every 30, you know, you want to look at your 30, 60, 90 day rotation. And the problem is most of these guys don't. So they, I could tell you this right now, and I'm not trying to bash all these guys, but this is really how this industry works, that it is so just archaic. It blows my mind. Some of these guys actually have systems that like. I have a whole CRM system to operate my company. Like all these things that these other guys are running off of like QuickBooks and, and note cards, you know, and I'm like, how do you, how long has that cigar been on the shelf? And so when I walk into a store and they go, oh, that box is half full and I don't have a backstock. Okay. I need that. Well, what if that was the only box and you bought it three years ago and it's only gone through half the box in the last three years? Why are you reordering that product?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  but they have no clue because they they're not marketing they're not following they're not they're just A lot of these guys go into this thing blind and they just go, oh, I got some money at the end of the month. Cool, let's buy some stuff. It's just, it's not, a lot of these guys are not operated as a business. Now, the guys that operate as a real company, they know what their burn through rate is, no pun intended. But they know what their burn through rate is on these cigars. And they go, oh, that one hasn't turned in 90 days. So let's try a different size or a different line. Let's blow this one out. Let's get it out, recover my money and put something else in its place. You know, or hey, Mr. Rep or hey. hey, Brandon, what can we do to help move this product along? We need to get it in people's hands. And a lot of times I walk in and I say, you brought the product in and you put it in a bottom corner where nobody sees it. Have you told anybody about the product? Did you put it in a primary placement for a while? What is taking up your primary space? Is it Oliva and Padron that you can put behind the toilet and people will still buy it? You know, and then you're wondering why Patina isn't selling. Well, it's your placement. So let's try moving it here and see if that changes. So it's, you know, my job is to get in and help these guys to operate their companies with my brands. I went into a shop the other day, not the other day, it was a couple months ago, and he says, oh, yeah, your West Tampa line, man, it just stopped selling. I don't know what happened. All of a sudden, it just, people were buying it, we were reordering, and now all of a sudden, we're not, I haven't ordered in a while. So I said, well, let's go in the humidor. And he had moved West Tampa brand down a shelf and put something up. where it was. And I said, how's this brand doing up here? He goes, man, people can't get enough of it. No kidding. So let's do an experiment. Let's switch them back. And then tell me how that brand still doing and how West Tampa is doing. A week later, the guy calls me and orders four boxes. And he's like, man, it's doing really well. And I said, are you telling people about it? Are you giving a good placement? Where are you putting it? And the dead spot. So we just found a dead spot in your humidor. That's where you need to put the product that people are looking for or the product that you don't really go in and promote. The Acid Cigar, the Padron, the Oliva, and nothing against those companies, but they have huge marketing budgets and people are looking for them. Why are you putting them in your primary spots? Put the brands people haven't heard of in the primary spots so you can turn those brands because you're not doing me any good by ordering from me and not reordering. I don't get paid until the third reorder. Like I get paid, but like I'm losing money. until you reorder at least three times. Because the time spent to get that there and all the stuff that we've gone through needs to be recovered within the next couple orders. And then we're starting to make money together.

• Speaker #3

  Hey, Kevin King and Norm Farrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We've got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite. podcast player, or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm?

• Speaker #1

  Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast?

• Speaker #3

  Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time and it's just me on here? You're not going to know what I say.

• Speaker #1

  I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too. You can go back and forth with one another. Yikes. That being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there, there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits.

• Speaker #3

  Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, is there some rule or tradition in the cigar industry that you deliberately break?

• Speaker #0

  That we deliver what?

• Speaker #2

  That you deliberately break or go against. Is there some like good old boys custom or rule or something that you actually like, no, that's old school, we're going to do it this way now. We're going to market it this way, we're going to position it this way. Something where you're going against the grain and going against the conventional wisdom of the industry.

• Speaker #0

  You know, it's, that's a very interesting, interesting question because I feel like actually what I do is I go, I go back to basics. So I go against the current grain, which is actually the correct grain. I feel like everybody today is currently going against the grain and they're trying to, you know, another limited release, another limited release. And how do we get people excited? And another limit's like, bro, you haven't even spent the time to build your core brand. Why are you coming out with limiteds and thinking people care? So let's. go back to basics. Let's build the relationships. Let's get into what this industry is about. Let's find creative ways to make this happen. How do I build brands without me being in the store? you know, and what creative things can we do? And we find those ways. And that's what the old school way was. I mean... Norm, you've been smoking for a while and you've probably been to some cigar events. And what if you showed up to Big Smoke? So you guys are both there and you showed up to Big Smoke and it was nothing more than a bunch of just sad people sitting behind a booth, which don't get me wrong, some of them are there. But a bunch of just mopey people sitting behind a booth going, oh, here's your cigar. Or you showed up and you just got a bag of cigars and you walked around and had no experience. It was just, cool, I got my bag and now I got to go find out what to do with the rest of my life. But there's not. There's a live band. There's booze. There's food. There's an experience. There's, you know, you come to my booth. I'm talking crap to you. You know, you're handing me five tickets. I'm trying to give you four cigars to mess with you. I try to give an experience to make you smile and enjoy yourself. And that's been lost in our industry. And we need to get back to that because that's what people smoke is the memory more than the cigar.

• Speaker #1

  Isn't that what Red Phone Booth is doing? In Red Phone Booth, kind of trying to make that speakeasy experience. So it's not just, isn't that something that they're kind of trying to do?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, and there's some great companies out there doing that. I would argue here in Phoenix, we have Fox Cigar Bar. And he's got two locations. He's building the third. You see him online. They give a great experience. You know, you walk in, you're welcome. They have liquor, the clean location, ashtrays clean. Like, it's an experience. And that's what guys want. we want to smuggle.

• Speaker #2

  You know, there's a thing called smemory, believe it or not. And it happens in the cigar industry. And what it does is it's kind of unique, is that you could be on your holiday, have a cigar, come back. And you've probably heard about this, Brandon, you know, quite a bit. But it's the best cigar I've ever had. And then they take it. And they smoke it outside their balcony just after business. And they can't believe it's a different cigar. They don't like it. Or it's just nothing like they remembered. And it's because the cigar that you smoke a lot of the time links to the memory and the experience of where you're at. It could be the exact same cigar, but all of a sudden that completely changes.

• Speaker #0

  Yep. Yeah, one of my favorite cigars I've ever smoked was a cherry-flavored cigar. Now, I just got done saying I don't like flavored cigars, but it's one of the first ones that I smoked, and it was with my best friend, and we were on the side of the lake, and we had jumped off the cliffs into the water, and he was getting sick because we bought really crappy cheese to put on our burgers that were undercooked. There's this whole experience of being a dude, and we're smoking these cherry-flavored cigars after the guy that sold them to us sounded like... death walking. I mean, the guy's hacking along and I'm like, do we want to really get into this dude? Like this guy's dying and selling us cigars. And that whole experience came into that cigar. Right. So I smell that cherry flavor in the air now. And it reminds me of it. I'm not going to go smoke a cherry cigar again, but I'll tell you this. There was a moment a couple of years ago, I was representing Espinosas cigars and we're out in our sales meeting in Miami. And one of the days we go to Guy Fieri's house in Miami there, and he's got this beautiful home that backs up to the water, big boat dock. And we're hanging out in his backyard. And we get there and he's like, oh, this is your house, guys. I open up the garage, there's beers in the fridge, go help yourself. And it's like, no rules. Just respect the home and you can go wherever you want, right? Hey, this Guy Fieri, bro, just his hair is a big deal. You know, I'm sitting in the guy's backyard and Hector Alfonso, who does a lot of the blending, most of the blending for Espinosa, takes a box of cigars out, cuts the, you know, the sticker on the front, opens it up and puts it in front of me. And I'm a big Connecticut smoker. And this is the Knuckle Sandwich Connecticut, and it's not released yet. But it's in the final packaging. It's in the box. And Hector, the blender, is opening it to me. I'm looking around. I'm sitting here with Eric Espinosa, Eric Jr., Jack Taragno, Guy Fieri, Hector Alfonso in this beautiful backyard. And I'm like, he's like, would you like to try one? I'm like, dumb question. Of course. So I grabbed the first cigar out of this brand new box that nobody's ever smoked. And the rest of the sales team smoked them. And Hector looks at me later and he goes, what did you think of that cigar? I said, Hector, all due respect, that could have been a dog turd with a freaking band on it and it would have been fantastic. Like I'm sitting here reminiscing of my history in this industry and I'm in this space right here. Like I never pictured I'd be with Eric and Jack and they're in my phone and they're friends, you know, because when you're new in the industry, these are rock stars. And I'm with Guy Fieri. We're talking about tattoos. And it's not like this weird, awkward. We're homies. We're hugging. We're taking pictures. And it can't be a bad cigar. So I said, I think I need five more. And he goes, oh, of course. And I go, no, I need to smoke one after my dog bit me. My wife yelled it. Somebody cut me off in traffic. I need to make sure this is a damn good cigar because it's a damn good cigar. But this environment is completely affecting it. And that's one of the best cigars I've ever smoked.

• Speaker #2

  because of that memory and it's still a damn car by the way yeah no and one of my favorite brands is wealth yeah i i it's the top of the hour but i got one last question and it has to do with selling into uh large companies like general general is one of the the big conglomerates out there they own a ton of cigar brands now are you allowed to sell brands

• Speaker #0

  into like if i go to a general cigar cigars international which is general are you selling into cigars international or do they just carry their own brands i'm just curious no so so general might own them but they're still a cigar lounge right um and so there are a lot of brands casa carillo is carried by cigar international and casa carillos casa carillo they're not owned by general so they still treat their stores as a store um and as a as a place to move product. But yeah, we can still sell the brands into their stores. General themselves is not going to buy it. But Cigars International as a subsidiary of General will buy that for their stores.

• Speaker #2

  Ah, all right. Very good.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  All right, sir. I got one question for you, or we have one question for you. At the end of every podcast, do you know a misfit?

• Speaker #0

  I know tons of misfits. we're all interested for a misfit to be on the podcast i should have asked you this before if you want another cigar industry guy or not but um i yeah i know some great misfits and um but i could definitely i could definitely refer you to some great people in the cigar industry that um i think would be a hoot to have on your show and talk about a little bit more in depth than what i know and uh one of them would probably i was just talking to him the other day and on a separate podcasts with them, but. If you want to get into some nitty gritty depth of what's really going on in Nicaragua and all the distress and everything that could be affecting us in the cigar community. Daniel Lance has started a new cigar brand in the last year. And he is a fantastic, just a plethora of information that you could pick a brain on. And you need a three hour podcast, but he'd be a great one.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, very good.

• Speaker #1

  Norm, you got to get Brandon and those listening, as well as Brandon, we have a WhatsApp group. You want to tell them about that, Norm, for Cigar Smoker?

• Speaker #2

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Brandon, I didn't mention this when we've been talking back and forth, but we had a very successful Collective Mind Society event. We do it every year, but this year was about cigars. And one of the things that we learned was just like at every... every lounge we go into, there's this cigar culture that comes out of it. And everybody came in not knowing anybody. And everybody over that four or five day period ended up becoming incredible friends. And there was a lot of business opportunities. So we asked everybody what they would want at the end. It's not us, it was them. And they said, let's get a WhatsApp group going where we could have the virtual cigar lounge. We can have the share a smoke. So it's just what you're smoking. And then events coming up and then in-depth, like cigar tasting cards and reports. So if you're interested, I'll shoot you over the information. And anybody else that's listening, it's just called the Cigar Boardroom. And it's on WhatsApp.

• Speaker #1

  About 36 people or something in there right now. 36 people in there. I heard it all a few weeks ago. But it's very active with people sharing smokes and talking about stuff. It's pretty cool.

• Speaker #0

  That's awesome. That sounds great.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  And how do people get a hold of you if they want to get in touch with you?

• Speaker #0

  So I'll start off by saying that in the cigar world, I can't sell you cigars directly. So don't get a hold of me and ask me to buy cigars. OK, you don't carry a tobacco license. I'm not talking to you. But as far as cigar sales, but you can reach me on Instagram, Cigar Mechanic, and you'll see my logo there. We also have we'll have a YouTube channel that I never check with Cigar Mechanic. But if you want to catch me also, one of the good places lately has been my other YouTube channel, which is called Voodoo Monkey Garage. And that's another business that we're building where we do the custom cars and classics and how-to videos on automotive in the Voodoo Monkey Garage. It's another great place to catch me there.

• Speaker #2

  All right. Very good. All right, sir. Well, thanks for coming on. And don't forget, we're going to put you in the waiting room. Don't click off.

• Speaker #0

  I got you, brother. Thank you, man. Thank you guys very much. I appreciate it. All right.

• Speaker #2

  Thanks, Brendan.

• Speaker #1

  There you go. Bye. There's a lot of lessons there from the cigar world that people listening, if they're not into cigars, can actually apply to their business. You know, the community aspect, the experience aspect, creating experiences around your product. And there's a lot of really good lessons that can apply to anybody in business that came out of that talk.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. You know, what's interesting is there's one person in particular that he private messages me from time to time saying, you should stop promoting cigars it's not good for you and i hope it came across today is that you know you do whatever you want but something for us and it's it's some of our greatest ideas and some of the greatest people we know have come from sitting down and just talking having a cigar and you know you have your own opinion and i know there's lots of you out there that have that opinion. But, you know, I'm not saying just go out to a cigar lounge and try a cigar, but try it. It might change your mind, you know.

• Speaker #1

  Or next time you're maybe out at an event and you see us, come and join us. You don't have to smoke, but come and join us. I have the rest of the experience, and you're welcome to do that as well.

• Speaker #2

  All right. So that's it for today, sir.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And something else you're welcome to do is subscribe to this podcast. and we have a new... Episode that comes out every single Tuesday. We also have about 90 or 100 or so over the last couple of years as you can go back and listen to some really, really, really great guests. How do they do that, Norm?

• Speaker #2

  Well, we got a few ways. So first of all, you can go over to YouTube and you can listen to the long form video of Marketing Misfits podcast. Or if you just want clips that are little nuggets from every clip, three minutes and under. You can go back to YouTube and go marketing misfits clips. And you can also target TikTok. We got a bunch of clips on there as well. Whatever you like, whatever your favorite is, we got you covered. So I think that's about it for today, Kev.

• Speaker #1

  I think so. Have a good rest of your day, everybody. And we'll see you next week.

• Speaker #2

  See you in the lounge, Kev.

• Speaker #1

  That's right. I hope you have a great holiday and a happy new year. Bye.