Transcription

• Speaker #0

  The first half of my life, I spent answering every email right away, answering every text message, being very available, and also I did it all. And it was only after getting sued by the FTC, having all my money taken from me, at the same time having breast cancer, in that moment, that's where we go, oh, let me reevaluate some things.

• Speaker #1

  I made money by the time I was 28, and then by the time I was turning 29, it was gone.

• Speaker #0

  Most people, they believe retirement is this destination. that they have to get to because that's when they're free to do what they actually want to do. But a life well lived is one where we can learn to sprinkle all of the things we love along the way.

• Speaker #2

  Our society has it backwards is what we push on to people in the way that things should be. I fight against that.

• Speaker #0

  It's amazing how with the right tools and the right advice, we can actually live a life that feels so good. And we don't necessarily need to be a 10 million millionaire.

• Speaker #3

  Marketing Misfits with Norm Farrar and Kevin Kane.

• Speaker #2

  I've got a question for you, Norm. I mean, you're a fossil as you self-proclaimed fossil. You've been doing this business stuff for a long time. You've built agencies. You've built companies. We have an agency together right now. We've done a lot of stuff, a lot of experiences, a lot of water under the bridge. How do you keep it fun? How do you keep doing what you're doing as an entrepreneur and keep the spark? Keep there. Or do you? Do you sometimes like, you know what, I'm going to quit everything, go sit on a beach and watch the fish?

• Speaker #1

  There have been times I've said that, but no, this is something that is very important, not only in a company, but just for your own mind. If you're not having fun, it just becomes a job, and that's exactly what it is, and you want to get out. And that's the same thing that your employees or contractors are going to feel. You've got to... at some point make it fun or enjoyable.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, you do. And sometimes, though, even though it might be fun, the government comes knocking. It could be the IRS. It could be the FBI. It's going to happen, Kev. It could be whatever. And you've got to deal with a sudden pain in the ass. And it takes the fun out of the whole thing and sometimes makes you wonder, is this all worth it? And you might have both experienced some of that. I've dealt with the mafia. I've dealt with the IRS. I've dealt with... I just think our guest today has dealt with the FTC and when it comes to digital agencies and digital products and selling online, she went through a pretty big battle with the FTC. So that's kind of shaped the way she approaches stuff. But one of her things is like she wants she helps companies come and put the fun back in. And and among another another among many other things as well. So I think it's got a little tongue twister there, Kev. All right, guys. I ate an almond beforehand. It was shifting, you know, in my mouth from one side. The little piece that was left over was shifting. That's what I want to talk. But no, this is going to be a different type of podcast than we normally do. But I think it's going to be very helpful for quite a few people.

• Speaker #1

  All right. Well, let's bring in our guest, Mary D. Hi,

• Speaker #0

  guys.

• Speaker #1

  Hi, Mary. How are you?

• Speaker #0

  I'm feeling good, feeling strong.

• Speaker #2

  All right. It's another day in paradise, right?

• Speaker #0

  It is.

• Speaker #2

  And so who who the heck is Mary D?

• Speaker #0

  Well, that's a loaded question. It actually it depends on who you are as to how you see me. And I think that that's true for all of us. Right. We have a lens in which we we see someone. I think like if we say the word Oprah Winfrey, we think, oh, Oprah is what? To some people, she's like an entrepreneur to other persons. She's like a wealthy media mogul to someone else. she is. a lonely woman who maybe has or hasn't found love in her life. Like there's so many like different ways that we can spin how we perceive someone. So it honestly depends on probably how you have, how you know about me. And if that's by the work I've done, then that could be because you were in a organization I was part of and you got to be maybe an affiliate there and you saw me at events and you got to spend a lot of time with me. It just, it depends on the lens, but I will say that in general. I'm an advisor. I'm a mentor. And I am just someone who wants to spread a lot of good in the world, Kevin. That's what I'd say I am.

• Speaker #2

  So what do you want to be most out of all these things, the different professions? What's the one that you want to be known as?

• Speaker #0

  When I think about my life.

• Speaker #2

  Tombstone.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. That's a great question. I think that's one worth reflecting for everybody. What's on your tombstone is I would say that. I would love for people to know me as someone who showed them how to love others and love themselves.

• Speaker #1

  I think mine would be fossil carved in stone.

• Speaker #2

  I would want something along the lines of the philosophy I live by. I like this about the experiences you have and the people you meet. It's not about how much money you have in the bank, which is where a lot of us in Western society, especially in the United States because of the culture, are all business people are motivated by. money and buy it who has the most who has the biggest car the biggest bank the biggest best vacation and it's not about that and so many people like i need to be a billionaire i'm like why i need to be i need to have a hundred million in the bank why uh what i mean there is a certain number that you know that most mine's 10 million uh that you know if i had 10 million i'm good um sitting in the bank and i could do whatever the heck i want and i know i could live the life that I want to live, just taking 4% of that out of the year. And why do I need to achieve more than that? And so I think that message gets lost with a lot of entrepreneurs and it causes them to steer their ship in the wrong direction and causes a lot of pain in their personal life, their business life and everything. As an advisor, do you see a lot of that kind of stuff happening?

• Speaker #0

  Oh, absolutely. So it's interesting to hear you say this because I feel like part of the journey that many of us go through, especially if you're an entrepreneur, is there's usually that first pain. And the pain is typically around money, meaning we grow poor or we feel the pressure of needing to perform for love, perform for our whether it's our community and our friends and family just to be like, OK, look at me. I'm not a total loser. And it's being able to have chasing the significance of whatever the thing is. And money typically is an easy thing to kind of equate to success, right? Because we see it all the time in marketing. We especially see it in old school marketing, which, by the way, for all the affiliates who rented out mansions and rented out cars and then, you know, showed the world that that was the life.

• Speaker #1

  Why did you do that? Why did you do that? I told you to not rent that Lambo. I told you.

• Speaker #0

  I'm telling you.

• Speaker #2

  We've seen that.

• Speaker #1

  We've seen people in our business.

• Speaker #2

  It's done that. It was exciting. Yeah, it's bad.

• Speaker #0

  And it's bad. It's bad. And it sets the wrong tone because. What happens is we're selling the story that money will buy you happiness and we're selling the story. And so that's what those things do. When I say we, I'm talking about the folks that are doing that line of marketing or using money as the motivator. So there is some truth. Money does bring you some freedoms and some choices. So that is also, it can be your truth. But what I would say to the folks that are running down that line is it's really important to know why you're doing what you're doing and what you're doing it for. So if it's, I want to reach, so Kevin, you are clear. You're like, my number is 10 million and it's because I want to have lots of choices. I want to live my lifestyle that feels good for me. And like, I don't want to have to worry about these things. So great. Like you have a very clear kind of path to why that needs to be that. And I'm guessing that by you saying that means you're not going to break your back trying to get to 11 million.

• Speaker #2

  No,

• Speaker #0

  you're going to get to 10. You'd be like, oh, this feels great. And I'm at my. guess is that you can even fall short of 10 million and you'll still probably be relatively comfortable and you'll go, actually, I didn't even need 10 million. Look at this. I only needed five or whatever the number is. And so happiness is one of those things that we procure from the inside out. And that is often a lesson we have to learn while we're running towards the things that we think are going to bring us happiness. And oftentimes that path also goes, of entrepreneurship goes to having a high high. where you suddenly make your first million or your first two million, you buy all the things, and then you go, oh, crap. I still feel like so empty inside. I'm not filling the hole of happiness. And we forget to do all the things that actually do bring us joy. And it's one of those things where you also see like couples, right? They get married maybe younger or they get married at a time of their life where they don't have much and they don't know what they know now and time goes on and then you watch those relationships and they either crumble or they grow apart because it's the same thing they start getting to understand life they start having experiences and they're like oh like just because he looks like a super model that's not enough like i actually want him to like hold me tight at night i want him to bring me flowers and tell me i'm pretty he does he does you're

• Speaker #2

  the one she's describing you you're the one that's been with connor had nothing. Made it all, lost it all, and then Connie still... Slipped coupons.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. But you know what's funny? What you're saying is that, yeah, when you're young, I was fortunate. I had a business. I made money by the time I was 28. And then by the time I was turning 29, it was gone. So but up to that point, you know, you're happy. Nothing can go wrong until it does. And then. All these things Kevin said at the beginning about, you know, well, I call it getting kicked between the legs and getting up and then doing it again and doing it again. Resilience. But now, if the same circumstances happen, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. It was back then. I mean, it was super depressing. And then you're having to slowly build up that happiness again. And even now, there's tons of precautions we make just because of those events that happened way back when.

• Speaker #3

  That's right.

• Speaker #2

  I mean, Norm has done well and he's had some very successful business and had a few that, you know, didn't do as well. And he's at a point where he could retire right now. But he's like he wants that one last little thing, one last little thing. And he and I have a business together and that's what we're trying, an agency together. And we're trying to get that one last little thing for him and get my 10 million for me. But so when did you become satisfied? Because Norm. He's told me, and correct me if I'm wrong, Norma, he's got enough. He could retire right now. He lives in Canada, so it doesn't cost much to be in the 51st state. But he could retire, but he's like, no, I need that one last thing. So a lot of us have that in us. People ask me, Kevin, would you ever retire? I was like, no, I don't think I ever could. I'm an entrepreneur by heart. I've got to be doing something. And that doesn't mean I've got to build the next $100 million company, unless it makes sense. But I see so many, I have a... good friends that exited for, I don't know, about 80 million bucks when they're in their mid to late 40s. And they did nothing for a year and then they got bored and then went through depression. So how do you get that balance of like knowing, getting the fulfillment along with the success? And so that when one, either one or both of them can happen together, they can happen together or one or the other at least can keep you going.

• Speaker #0

  Hmm. Great question. So this is what I found. Most people are saying, let me hustle. Let me do this thing. Let me grow this thing. Let me hit my number. Let me get blah, And then I'll retire. So what I'm hearing when someone says that is that they believe retirement is this destination that they have to get to because that's when they're free to do what they actually want to do. But a life well lived is one where we can learn to sprinkle all of the things we love along the way. I give this example. I love to sing. I love like karaoke. I love belting it out in the shower. I love rolling my windows down and putting on my best, you know, 80s and 90s track and just enjoying myself. Now, all of that said, if I had to do it and I had to go do a performance every like. every week, every weekend. Let's pretend like my nights were spent doing concerts and doing that. I probably would hate it. I would loathe it. It would take the fun out of why I enjoy singing and entertaining. So this is where I'm like, okay, how do we work through life, grabbing those things that we love and doing them along the way, all the things. So we don't wait until we're retired to hike. We don't wait until we're retired to read. We don't wait until we're retired to spend real time with the people we love. Instead, we figure out ways to do that now, even in the achievement. Because that way, when retirement shows up, you're like, I don't need to retire my life from anything because I love the life I've built. I get to sing once a week. I get to play with my children or my grandchildren. I get to go on that hike. I get to karaoke with my friends on Thursdays and bingo on Saturdays or whatever it is that you love. So that's what I would say to that is it depends on your definition of retirement in the same way that this all, when we talk about money and we're talking about business, depends on your, what's successful, what does success mean for you? So it sounds to me, and Norm, you can correct me on this, but it sounds to me like success feels like still being able to be like, hey, I still got this. And I can impact whether it's through your agency or through mentoring other people through their agencies, through helping other people who are early in the game make money so you get to partake some of your wisdom. Like that's some legacy stuff we're starting to talk about. And that feels good. It feels good to be like, oh, I'm leaving a little legacy. I'm leaving a little bit of something on someone who's able to look back and be like, wow, Norm helped me with that. And I really love that he. gave me that marketing nugget or that he introduced me to this white label that was amazing, or he showed me how to have better campaigns, whatever it is. And so that's, that's what I'd say to that.

• Speaker #2

  Hey, Norm, I've got a quick question for you. I'm trying to manage all my affiliate and creator programs from Amazon, from Shopify, from Walmart, but it's just a freaking mess. I mean, I've got reporting coming from here and there's all these different Slack messages. Do you know if there's like a unified dashboard where I can do this all in one place?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, absolutely. And you're right. It is a mess. A lot of brands are complaining about that. But there is a place that has a solution. It's called Levanta. And they let brands recruit partners, track performance, manage payouts, send product samples, and even run creator programs across every major marketplace all in one place. And guess what? Brands can spend less time on tools and more time making profit.

• Speaker #2

  Is that the one that you sent me a link for, like a 10% off coupon, a gold or enterprise plan a few days ago?

• Speaker #1

  You got it.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, cool, man. I think I've got that link here. Was it Levanta.io slash Misfits?

• Speaker #1

  Yep, you got it.

• Speaker #2

  L-E-V-A-N-T-A.io forward slash Misfits. Awesome. I'm going to go. Go hit them up right now and get that 10% off.

• Speaker #1

  Perfect. Me too.

• Speaker #2

  Now, I would say build your business around your life, not your life around your business.

• Speaker #0

  That's right. That's right.

• Speaker #2

  And it's- Get that backwards.

• Speaker #0

  That's right.

• Speaker #2

  I, when I turned 40, I'm way beyond 40 now. And when I turned 40, I decided to travel for a year. And because I was doing a lot of travel already. But I was like, there's a lot of places I want to go that don't make sense for business or to do whatever I was doing. I want to go to Bali. It didn't make sense for the business I was doing at the time to make an excuse to go to Bali to write that off. So I went to Bali. And that started a seven-year journey where I'd already been to like 20-something countries at that point. But now I've been to 96 in all seven continents. And I spent a lot of money. I spent probably half a million bucks. I wasn't backpacking, but I wasn't staying in like. fancy five stars unless it made sense you know if i was in tahiti i'm going to stay over the water that's part of the experience i'm going to spend a thousand dollars a night it was back then but people like kevin you're crazy you should have taken that half a million bucks and i probably bought half a million dollars of statue ignorance been around statues and artwork and different things like that was stupid you should have invested that money and you could have used that that's the advice i got from almost everybody you could invest then that would have been when you turned 65 or 70 and retire now you'd have five million then you could go travel And you could do it. I was like, no, You guys got it all wrong. You got it all freaking backwards. It's the best investment I ever made. Changed my whole outlook on the world, on people, on everything. And what if I was 65 and 70 and had bad hips or couldn't walk or whatever, had asthma or something all of a sudden? I couldn't do all those things. And so I think we have it. Our society has it wrong, has it backwards is what we push on to people in the way that things should be. And I fight against that.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. My mom said it to me best because I've been a world traveler since I could. So 18, got my passport, and I've been to now over 36 countries and still counting. And what I will say to that is she said to me, you know, she said, you're doing it right. She goes, because most people wait until they get old to travel. She says, but when you're old, you have to pee all the time.

• Speaker #1

  So true.

• Speaker #0

  She was not wrong. Yeah. And I also think there's so much enrichment we get when we share cultures for those people who are very dazzled by our, you know, first world problems here in America, like what kind of car are we driving? What kind of houses are we living in? When you do go and visit countries that don't have the wealth that we have here, It is so eye-opening. It creates more compassion and it creates more awareness of like, oh, like you can go to a place like Thailand where people are so happy and so smiley and yet. they live in what we would call poverty. And so I feel like this is where we can miss out sometimes on just the beauty that exists in front of us because we're in this bubble. We're in this just very narrow bubble of like what we see and what we grew up with. It's like so normal to be a kid that goes to school here and you think about college. That's normal. That's a normal American way. But it's not normal in many other countries. Education is hard to come by. You know, there's kids out there with one pair of shoes and two pairs of clothes, and they're on a farm just doing what they do with their families because there isn't the same level of baseline around education.

• Speaker #2

  Expectations, too.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  So let's go down a different rabbit hole. Let's talk about your title. A chief fun officer. What the heck is a chief fun officer? What do you do?

• Speaker #0

  As an advisor, Norm, I have decided that one of my North Stars is being able to have fun and that most people are just not having enough fun in their life. And that's half of the battle. So I will say this. It's also easier when you're making a phone call to call back the chief fun advisor. I mean, who doesn't want to call back? the chief fund advisor. So it makes it fun. It makes it easy. And it also just takes the seriousness out of all these like titles. And again, it's going back to the significance that everyone is chasing with who they need to be labeled as. And the truth is we're all multifaceted, you know, we're lovers, we're mothers, we're fathers, we're sisters, we're aunts and uncles, we're business owners.

• Speaker #1

  So it's very interesting. So you're the chief fund officer and Kevin, A very similar title. He's the chief FU officer in our company.

• Speaker #2

  That stands for I'm just missing the N. Oh,

• Speaker #1

  yeah, yeah. That's it.

• Speaker #2

  Missing the N. It's a misspell. It's a typo. It's a typo. So you look at some of these big corporations like Google and Facebook and some of these guys where, you know, I'm in Austin, Texas. And so down the road is huge campuses for Apple and Google and stuff. And they have these. just massive fun places for the people to actually work with? Are you talking about that kind of thing where it's like break up the day? It's not a nine to five type of day. And like you work for two hours and then you go play ping pong for an hour and then you, you know, whatever. Or is it more getting that work life balance that you work hard and then you play hard? Or what is that? How is that mixed?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, those are great questions. So this is how I would say they mix. They mix depending on the person. And this goes back to what is your definition of success? If it's being able to coach your kids' soccer teams on Thursdays and to take them to school in the morning and pick them up in the afternoon and it's time freedom, then that's fun for you. That's enriching for you. So building a life that allows you to do that would be an option, right? Or it'd be what you're going for. For others, Kevin, it might actually be what you just said, which is like, I want to be on a call with you guys. And when I'm done, I want to go take my dog across the street to the park. And I want to do some stretches and put my feet in the grass. And I want to go get myself a boba tea and call it a day. you know, or maybe that's just a little part of my day. And now I'm going to come back and then I'm going to knock out a little more work. I'm going to have a couple of calls with my clients and then I'm going to shut it all down at 5 PM. And when my lover walks through the door, we get to spend the rest of the evening just having a good time together, enjoying a face-to-face meal and a movie or whatever it is. And that's why I said it depends on the person. Some people get so much joy out of the work that they're doing. So let's pretend you are a men's coach and you love that work. That is just work that fuels you and you love the energy of other people. then being in that work for... five or six hours a day may feel energizing for you. So it's about finding your definition of success and creating that life around those things. The first half of my life in work, I spent answering every email right away, answering every text message, being very available. And also I did it all. I was the glue. And man, the glue is a rough place to be because you have to be sticky all the time. And it was only after getting sued by the FTC, having all my money taken from me, having to rebuild all over again, at the same time having breast cancer, which so now I'm dealing with not just my money going away, but also my health is getting scary. Like all of these things at the same time was a really, really big, like, oh. We got to try something different because this isn't working. And in that moment, that's where we go, oh, let me reevaluate some things. And it's been beautiful to come out of the other side of it and go, okay, I've built many wonderful businesses before. I can do that again. No problem. I have, I can take control of how I'm feeling, what I choose to put in my body, how I choose to treat my body. Okay, got it. Doing that. And then I can go, okay, how do I want to build this differently and create more leverage and make it all happen in a way that feels really good for me? Now, my time is not instantly answering all the things. It's none of that. I have a block of time where I do those things. And then I'm like, hmm, what's really important to me? It's shutting things down at 5 o'clock. And it's walking my lover walk through the door and us having a beautiful evening together. And it's visiting my parents every month. because I love them. And I know they're not going to be around for that much longer. So it's having those things that you do and creating that life that you want. And by the way, I didn't need $10 million to do that. It's amazing how with the right tools and the right advice, we can actually live a life that feels so good. And we don't necessarily need to be a 10 million millionaire.

• Speaker #2

  That's a good point. So when you said you found a way to shift so that you're not the glue that's a big problem and i know that how does someone because a lot of times the entrepreneurs are really bad it's like they don't want to let go they don't want to like oh nobody can huge problem nobody can do it better than me norm's a big systems guy he's putting in systems and getting out of the way and just by the way as an aside norm's passion is smoking cigars so he loves you know he always finds a couple hours and every day to go and smoke a cigar. He builds that into everything that he does. That's why you see the cigar smoker smoking the logo here of the Misfits podcast. So how do you actually, you know, like as an agency or as a company or whatever, what is that sticking point that keeps you from going from like seven to eight figures that really that is there and you've got to let go of and you maybe have to take a step back, take three steps forward? Can you talk about that a little bit, your advice on that?

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. So what I found is that one of the drivers of very successful people is that oftentimes one of their, one of the things that makes them fantastic is also the things that keeps them from getting to the thing they really want. And that is control. It's control. And so how we view control is the first thing. So a lot of these have to do with our inner, as you could tell from the things I've talked about. today around success and how we feel about life, it has a lot to do with how we're all defining these things for ourselves. And so often we're putting ourselves into a box of a thing. And it's when we learn to let go of the box that suddenly the world opens up and we're like, oh, I've been controlling or I believe I've been controlling these things. And what the control has done is just created a lot of resistance. And so there's a level of control, right? So if Norm's building systems, he's building those systems because he's saying we can control the environment around certain processes and how things are done if we have systems. I would say that's a very healthy level of control. And then you have the control, which was you were talking about, Kevin, which is no one can do it better than me. So I have to be the only one and I'm not going to let this stuff go. And for as long... As we continue to believe that that's the truth, that's where they'll stay. They will continue to hit that wall and they'll continue to hit that plateau because there's no growth. There's no growth in being the only one and being the only man on the island to do all the things. So this is where we are built for collaboration and we are built to interact with each other. So think of life like a grand puzzle, right? We are all a piece of this puzzle. And through our different chapters of life, we have to learn how to find those pieces that interlock best with us so we can keep completing the puzzle as we go along. And this is part of it. And so a big piece of it is how do you set yourself free from this level of control that you think you need to have and put in good systems and processes like Norm's talking about so that you can have a level of control over certain factors. And then you, you. bring in good people, people who are better than you ideally at those things to come help you so that you don't have to do it all. Because you are going to get so much further when you can leverage your time and actual expertise and whatever your magic is, and then let someone else come in and do all those other things that you are not willing to let go of under this guise of control that is probably Not really true. It's just the story that you're repeating to yourself that is keeping you at that plateau, keeping you hitting the glass wall because you're like, I see it on the other side. I can't get through, but it's because you put the glass wall there. And so that's what I would look at for.

• Speaker #1

  Well, actually hire, they always say, hire good people and get out of their way is one philosophy that some people have. I think it's actually a good philosophy. Some people hire good people and then try to micromanage them. And they give up the quote unquote in their mind, the control, but they're still micromanaging everything that they do. So how do you how do you advise people to get out of that mindset?

• Speaker #0

  So that's probably not like a one hour answer or a five minute answer because it's so different for everyone. And what I will say is for the person that is struggling with that, they're probably also seeing that pattern in their personal life somewhere. So these things are very interchangeable and they'll see it in their own relationships at home. They may see it in the resistance they get from their children. Pass for you if your children are teenagers. Those guys are unpredictable. But for the normal kind of run of life, what I would say is that it's a pattern. It's a pattern that's usually built around something that either we learned and need to unlearn or it's a safety mechanism that we probably... built, there's a, it's like an avatar, for lack of a better word, of hypervigilance, right? And so that often comes from kids who were raised latchkey, might have been left on their own more, had to solve a lot of problems by themselves, which I realize is probably describing every kid that grew up in the late 70s and 80s. But still, that hypervigilance shows up as we grow up and it's helpful because we were resourceful and we can. go through any problem. We can tackle anything, right? We can pull up our bootstraps and go. However, the kind of dark side of that is sometimes we have a hard time letting things go. And we have a hard time just saying, I'm going to trust that I'm putting the right people in the right place or that I'm hiring the right people to do this work. People who are better than me at this or people who I have systems built around so that there is a level of control around the work they're doing so I don't have to to micromanage them. And then once we learned to do that, we set ourselves free and we set other people free to go, you trust me, I'm going to be brilliant for you.

• Speaker #2

  Back in the 80s and 90s, I had a hyper growth company. Every time I took a step forward, I take two steps back. It was driving me crazy. It was a nightmare. I ended up going to a conference put on by EO and YPO about performance-based culture. And through that, I enrolled in Peter Gerber's E-Myth Academy. And it turned out it was, this was exactly me. I would be 24, 25 hours a day. And then I try to hire somebody. They could never do it as good as I could do it. So I take the job back. They were a crappy employee and I would do it all myself. Then I'd hire, got to the point where 25 hours a day, hire somebody. And it taught me that I'm not the guy to train. I should either hire a consultant or hire somebody that can train this person, tell the person everything that I want to have done. And then they actually helped teach me to train people, but they trained our top level people. And now everything is a performance-based culture. If Kevin knows, like I have a five-page policy on how to do a cup of coffee, you know, it's just, it's. everything, but it's now I don't worry about it. And the beauty of it is that when you do this properly, people can have a four day week, pay them for a five day week. They're happy. They're doing, and by the way, fun, we, our company at that time, that's what it was. Like we'd get together. We'd have bar and a lot of people think this is wrong nowadays, but we had barbecues. We would have a lot of We would give four-day vacations out. We would do whatever it was, but that kept the incentive up. It wasn't the monetization for the people. A lot of it was just the fun and the incentives that we gave out. But every single aspect of the company, we had process and systemizes for, systems for.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. It's so important. It sounds like you had a great company culture too, Norm, because it sounds like there was a lot of celebration. Which is always, you know, a piece that I go often into companies and advise on their, how they manage their teams. Because what people forget is they think they're just going to throw more money at people and that that's going to make them happy. And don't get me wrong, there are some people in your organization who are going to be very happy with you throwing some money at them. But many of them, especially when we're talking about your, I'm not going to call it non-revenue because customer service can certainly be a revenue avenue, but your maybe less revenue producing type folks, they're going to be even happier when you have no Fridays or every other Friday off or they get to rotate Saturdays or they get to leave at three o'clock to go pick their kids up from school. whatever, you know, the work from home flexibility or. Being able to come and support you at events because events are fun and they get to talk to customers, whatever it is, ice cream Thursdays, you know, like those are the things that they really look forward to because it's connection and it's about more than just hustling, just doing the work. It's like, can we come to an environment where work is a little bit of a reward? And so that's a really great culture. And it's really fun to know that there's. That you're tackling that in your own organization because I find that that's the secret sauce is it's figuring out what it actually, what makes people actually tick and what makes them feel seen. And if you can do that, then your organization shows up ready to work, ready to rock, ready to back you 100%. And because they know you feel the same about them, they're feeling very fulfilled because you're not having to teach them to go figure out how to have work-life balance. You are actually embodying it. and showing them how to do it just by your company culture.

• Speaker #2

  Sometimes it's just noticing them and acknowledging them.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, all the time. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. We all, we all love to know that we're doing well. We love to hear someone say, and whether it's like some, like, like Norm, I like your beard. I'm sure that you put effort into. Some kind of oil that you probably put into your beard.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, I like you.

• Speaker #0

  Making sure that it's, you know, you have a special comb. Like there's, you know, there's a quality to it. So we like to be seen and acknowledged for the things that we make effort for. And also the things that may be natural. Like, hey, Kevin, I love your smile. Now, Kevin maybe doesn't every day look in the mirror and go, let me do my smile exercises. He just naturally has it. But it feels good. It feels good to... to have someone else say something nice about you. And that doesn't stop, especially when we're working. And a lot of times working hard, you know, to do something as a team or a community, it feels good.

• Speaker #1

  I don't think I ever told you, Norm, but that pet rock that you put on my desk last time you were here with my name on it was really touching.

• Speaker #2

  That's the one I threw at you.

• Speaker #1

  So, Mary, what the heck is cosmic obligation? You've talked about everybody's got this cosmic obligation. That sounds like a bunch of woo-woo tree hugger stuff. But break that down. It's not. But break that down. And what is that?

• Speaker #0

  So a cosmic obligation is what I call, and I do call in my woo-woo folks with this one. So it's helpful. This is for this one. This one's for that one. This is for the listeners because they totally get it. They totally get it. And this is for my folks who say, well, I don't need to build that thing or do the thing or be on a stage or tell my story because who am I to do that? There's someone else. Kevin's doing it better. Norm's doing it better. So I'm just going to stay small. I'm not going to go for my dreams. I'm not going to do the things. And why I call it a cosmic obligation, what the cosmic obligation is, it is whatever your soul's calling is or whatever is driving you to that idea or to the thing that is sitting in the back of your mind when you go to sleep and it's there when you wake up and it taps you once in a while to go, hey, don't forget, I've been asking you to write that book for like 20 years now. When are you going to share that story? So it's those things that I call a cosmic obligation because what it is, is it's that energy of you completing a thing, doing a thing, making a relationship right. It can be lots of things, but that is your cosmic obligation. And it's not going to go away until you address it or get to the end of your life and go, man, I wish I would have, could have, should have done X, Y, Z.

• Speaker #1

  Man, things are getting tough out there. Hard news are getting squeezed. Things are changing. AI is playing a big role in what's going on in the e-commerce world. And there's a lot of people they're They're pretty worried. What should they consider doing?

• Speaker #2

  Well, I think one of the best things they could probably do is go to an expert that understands the market sentiment right now. The first one that comes to mind is Quietlight Brokerage. And here's why. They're going to build you up. They're going to understand your company. And at the end of the day. you're going to know how to maximize your valuation. So the very first thing you need to do is go and get your free confidential valuation at QuietLight.com and then, you know, let the games begin.

• Speaker #3

  Awesome. What was that website again?

• Speaker #2

  It's QuietLight.com.

• Speaker #1

  Awesome. I'm going to head over there. So what if you're not? That's just not you. You're like, you're comfortable being the soldier. You're comfortable being the person told what to do. You have no desire to be an entrepreneur, be a leader, or be seen. You just want to stay in your little hole, your little hole, and just do your little thing and go home and play your little video games.

• Speaker #0

  Well, what I would say to that person is, number one, they're probably not in front of me because they're not out necessarily seeking, seeking what I have to offer or what you have to offer. And this is also what I'll say is, Just because someone chooses not to be entrepreneurial isn't a bad thing, right? I think that as entrepreneurs, we know that we are a very special, we are a special bunch. And also, there is something really beautiful about someone who can be steady and consistent and do you The thing that for them, if stability is where they get their comfort, then that's what it tells me. Like if that, if a job speaks stability to somebody, if that's how they're defining stability and that feels like regular income, it feels like benefits. It feels like, okay, I know everything's taken care of and that makes me feel good in my body. Then live your life. Do it. My, my brother is a, he has been a fireman slash. paramedic for the Cape Canaveral out in Florida for his whole life. That's like the first job he got out of school. And he's never had a different one. And he is well past retirement age. But you know why he goes to work every day? It's because he has the most flexible schedule ever. He trades his time so he can basically spend hunting season hunting. And he is happy to show up when these younger guys don't want to show up because he's getting like a thousand bucks a day to show up. and sit around. And if they get a call, it's because some tourists got heat stroke or stubbed their toe. So he's already, like I said, he could retire and he's already a multimillionaire. And so he did that not being this super digital marketing entrepreneur, but he did it with stability, consistency, and the right investments. So I think there's a lot of avenues for us to get to what we want, Kevin. But for the person who does feel called to speak, for the person who does feel called to write a book, who does feel called to do something that they might consider a little uncomfortable, that's where I say, ooh, move towards that discomfort. Because that's where the gold is and that's where the richness lies. And that's where just living life exists. It's in getting to those growth edges and being like, I'm just going to jump.

• Speaker #1

  How important is it for entrepreneurs to be around other entrepreneurs? Norm and I. are pretty well known in the Amazon seller community. And, you know, you go to the, someone just said, I was on a call with someone this morning who just, it's got a software tool and they hadn't really been in the Amazon seller community for like a, till about a year ago or so until they started seeing that there's an opportunity there. And they told me they went to a couple of events and I, these people, these entrepreneurs and this, they're, they're like gung ho and they're like, you know, partying hard, working hard. They're, they, they have this. uniqueness I've never seen in any other type of thing. So how important is it for people, for entrepreneurs especially, to get with their people?

• Speaker #0

  Oh man, community is what will hold you up when stuff is hard, when stuff is hard. And when you're hitting a wall or when you want to know how someone else is getting through this Google slap or whatever the thing, you know, or hey, tariffs are showing up. What am I supposed to do? How am I getting? It's COVID. How am I getting my stuff shipped back over from Japan? This is where community really comes in. And it's because you're with other people who can understand your pain, who can understand your successes, who can also cheer you on, and who can give you an edge. It's the same reason why when a kid goes to medical school, they have to do their internship with other medical professionals that ideally have been doing it a lot longer than them. So in the same way, we don't necessarily want to learn from someone who hasn't done what we're doing. We want to be in this circle where we go, okay, we're all doing this thing. And there's room enough for all of us, by the way, to share these successes, share best practices, and in so many other times collaborate to share resources. I mean, how many times have we looked at the new CRM that's showing up or this project management software or this AEO tool or whatever it is. And you just go, okay, like who can talk about this? Who's been using it? Who says this sucks? Who says this is great? Who's worked with Norm and loves his systems and processes. Let's go see Norm because he's done this and he's able to go enjoy his cigars and primp on his beard because he's got time, because he has systems and processes. Kevin has his own rock farm on his desk, apparently, and he has time to nurture his rocks. He must be doing something right. Let's go see him.

• Speaker #2

  And there's another area as well. Part of this community is just not the network. It's breaking bread and getting to know people way beyond the Amazon community, getting to know them, and then just being able to, we'll say, play hard. You know, go out at night and go out to dinner, and now you're experiencing things with people. So in any community, I think that's like that. But if you get beyond just... oh, how, you know, what's the best app? You know, let's join this mastermind. I think that's one of the biggest elements.

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. I was just in an event this last weekend and the very first group of women that I stopped to talk to. So you guys don't know this about me, but I will bring my dog sometimes to events. So she travels with me a lot and she's a little cute wiener dog. And so she's a showstopper. Everyone wants to stop and touch her and she's so good. She's just. social and easy. So here we are in this circle and we start talking about our animals and how much we love them and how short their life is. And then we start talking about our parents and we start talking about death. So this sudden, this business event that we're at, we're connecting. And what we're connecting over is actually like life and loss and grief. And that's what the conversation turned into. But it built so much connection that of course, when things moved on into business conversation or just a, hey, let's have lunch or let's just go have fun. It was easy to do because we're creating friendships, right? We're finding the thread that connects us all. And all of us have it in some way, shape or form. We just have to spend enough time with someone to know that. And the other piece of it I'll say is I have literally been on a vacation across the world. Years ago, I was in Thailand and I think I had posted something and literally had a guy that I was only Facebook. friends with for years. And he was someone I knew. He had his own community, this and that. And I had mine. And he said, hey, I saw that you're in Thailand. I happen to be here. Do you want to get together for lunch? And I was like, oh, that's amazing. And we got to connect and we got to talk. And then we got to talk a little business, talk a little life. And I was like, wow, where else can we do that? You have entrepreneurs who know each other and we're connected by some thread. And he was like, wow. He's like, I've been following you for seven years and I've never gotten the chance to meet you. We haven't crossed. you know, paths in person. So I just thought this was a good opportunity. And I was like, that's amazing. I love this. And so I feel like that is just one more way we get to connect, we get to do stuff together, we get to play together, we get to life together. Some of my very, very best relationships have all come out of this industry. I mean, I can look back on my very first events and the people I've met, and I can still see them in my life today, whether we're doing business, whether we still play together. And it's... it's amazing. And I think that at the end of the day, Norm, it for sure, it's the community. I remember when I got breast cancer, all who do you think was calling me? It was all of my associates, all the people in the community who who are just calling to encourage me. And like, I was like, Oh, I felt so lifted. And I was like, this is what it's about.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I bet Norm, Norm and I met through community like 10 years ago. And now he sleeps in my bed.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, nice. Tell me more about this love.

• Speaker #1

  Not with me. He's using my guest pad. Not with me. He's got everything over there, his own refrigerator. Like, no.

• Speaker #2

  Including dog ice cream.

• Speaker #1

  Including dog ice cream. Nice. No, I've got a little wiener dog right here next to me as well. A little 15-month-old puppy. So, yeah, I do like a time of this recording next week. I have a big event I do in Austin called Market Masters and we do it in a mansion. It's an 18,000 square foot mansion. It's decorated like the 1920s Gatsby. And and I have about 100 people come in and a lot of people say that I do a lot of events. I host and speak a lot of events and they say that's their favorite in the entire e-com industry because of that. what you just said because it's I bring in my chef, I bring in my masseuse. It's like a weekend summer camp for entrepreneurs and where you're learning. There's no presentations, there's workshops, and there's hot seats. And you walk away out of that with... new friends, new connections, and amazing experience with other people like you. And then we do a big party one night that's crazy. You know, it's kids games. So it's taking, it's like little children's games and stuff sometimes. And people just, especially when you drink, you just get into it. And it creates a lot of bonds and relationships. So I think that's important is to find that balance. And a lot of people. don't. They just stay in their own little cubby hole and they stay in their house and like, I can't afford to join a $35,000, mine's not $35,000, but a $35,000 mastermind. I can't afford to pay $5,000, you know, the airfare and hotel and everything to go to some event. It should be the other way around. It's just, you can't afford not to. But the mindset is, I mean, I was that way for a while and I would not join, I get invited to join masterminds, 30 grand, 35 grand, 50 grand. I'm like, no, I'm going to be providing most of the value. Because in the world, I was usually one of the more experienced people. But then I finally joined one, and I was like, you know what? I'm still one of the most experienced people here, but I'm getting value. One thing that somebody says or one connection that I make can change everything, and it has. And so that's worth way more than $35,000 or whatever you may pay. But getting people and entrepreneurs to switch that mindset is difficult to where you're not. get in rooms where you're not the smartest person, make these connections. How do you teach somebody that's just got their head down, they're building their business, or they're doing their thing, and they don't realize the value of getting outside of their box? How do you get people to get into that mindset? It's difficult. I tell people all the time, you need to do this, and Norm listens occasionally. But how do I get people to, they're like, dude, get out of your box, get out of your comfort zone, go. Go do something that's going to make you better.

• Speaker #0

  Well, there's two approaches, Kevin. One of them is you can try to convince them. And then sometimes you will, right? And we might call that the hard sell. And when that happens, there's a 50-50% chance that they're going to come out of that experience and go, oh my gosh, Kevin, I'm so glad that you beat me over the head with that thing because I got so much value. Or they're going to still be in their own head. And the whole time they're going to be commiserating over the fact that they just spent $30,000 and they can't get past that. And then they're gonna be like, I hate you. I just spent $30,000 and I couldn't get out of my own head. So the other path to that would be to help people come to their own conclusion on why they should or shouldn't do a thing. And so much of this is timing. And the other part is... What I was talking about before, which is can we lean into those growth edges? Can we go towards the thing that makes us the most uncomfortable, right? It's hard to have sticky conversations, but can we lean in and do it? And can we do it in our business life with our teams and our people who are building this with us? Can we do it with our business partners when things get a little edgy? Or do we just throw rocks? Maybe that's a way we at least get their attention. Or, you know, these are just some of the methods that show up. And so, so much of that is understanding too that we want to honor where someone is at in their journey. And one of the ways I found to help people come to their own conclusions on why something is so great, because I agree with you, it's being in those rooms where you go, oh, I get it now. I'm happy to write down this check. I'm happy to run this card. and make this happen in this room because I know what I'm showing up to and that it's going to be far, far more worth. It's going to be 10 times what I put into it, what I'm going to get out of it. But people don't know that until they experience it for themselves. And so what they can do is you can encourage them to go talk to or go collect information about the five people that they find the most successful that they want to be like. Right? Because then what we're looking for are the patterns that those people do. And if they go to those people and can see that, oh, Kevin is a part of like four masterminds that are all 30K plus deals. And wow, he's living the life I want. That's a clue. That's a clue. And you can go, hey, that's a breadcrumb for you right there. You could totally eat it up and do your first. Just get in that room and see how it feels. And then now they get to go, okay, how do I invest myself. And that's the hardest part most people have is they are used to giving and maybe even over giving to everybody else or putting it all in their eggs in this one basket that they forget. Like we have to fill our tank first. And oftentimes it's in making those big investments in ourselves. The thing that floors me the most is people who sell high ticket packages that don't invest in anything high ticket themselves. Meaning they want to be a $50,000 a month coach, but they've never paid for a $50,000 a month. coach. So it's really fascinating to me to go, okay, well, that's a growth edge, right? You get an opportunity to see why. Why would other people pay you when you won't even invest that in your own self to go get what you need and to go or and even go get what you don't even know you need? Because that's usually what happens in those rooms is you go, I got something I didn't even know I needed.

• Speaker #2

  OK, we've got to go down another path here. As you skipped over it and I'm trying to figure out what the heck this is. What happened with the FTC?

• Speaker #0

  Oh. Oh my goodness. Okay. Yeah. No, happy to tell this story. So, oh man, the FTC, I got to tell you, I have never felt more like I was a criminal is how they made it, how I felt. And I was like, wow, this is weird to me because the FTC, for those of you that may or may not know, they are like, if they're suing you, it's a civil suit. So it's... you know, they're suing like, you know, Walmart, or they're suing Verizon, or they're suing a digital marketing company for claims. There's so many different things that kind of fall under their rules. And they're very broad, meaning they're not specific. And that's why they can often get into the door. So I was running a digital marketing company, one of which I was technically not the owner, Norm, but because my name was on the bank account, and anyone that name that was on the primary bank account actually was named as like a primary in the lawsuit. So built a digital marketing company. We did zero to 36 million our first year. And then our second year, we were right around 56 million. And then that's where the FTC came in. And we got sued. And they had a kind of a laundry list of things. I'll tell you what one of them is, which I would go back and do differently. And this is one I share really, really. with anyone who is out there figuring out digital marketing and business, one of the flags that came through for us, which I didn't know again until after the fact, was the fact that we had multiple entities. So in our product line, we had five different products. And initially, we had opened an entity for each of them. But then we came back around and we said, no, we're not going to separate them. We're going to be one company selling five products. But those created flags because apparently in the world of... terrorism. That is how terrorism is funded, is by opening all these kind of shell companies. And so to find that out on the back end and be like, whoa, wait a minute, you're telling me that some judge signed off on part of this because you use that as a, you know, they could possibly be funding terrorism, which of course we weren't. So when they come in and sue you, it's painful. I literally was two weeks out of surgery. I had just gone out for the first time. I was going to Bye. a van from a friend of mine. I went to the bank to pull out $7,000. And the teller looked at me and she said, I'm so sorry, your account is frozen. And I said, my account is frozen. That's weird. My taxes are paid. I don't have any collections and notices of any sort of kind. My finances are in order. That can't be right. So I said, well, can you check my business account? Can you check my other accounts with this? I'm on another business account. So she looks, She says, yeah, all these are frozen. And I'm like. Wow, this is super strange. She goes, I'm so sorry. I can't tell you why because the paperwork is still being uploaded. So all I could do is go home and go, huh, this is weird. So a few hours later, of course, someone comes to the door and they come with giant boxes of documents. And I realize, oh. I see this business is getting sued. And then of course, our sales guy calls us and says, hey, apparently they raided our old office, but nobody was there. And I was like, oh, that's a great use of taxpayer money that they didn't even know we weren't in that office anymore. So anyway, we got sued. It was painful. It was long. What my attorney said was going to happen, happened. He said, they just want all your money. They hoped. that they would get in there and see all those millions of dollars in your bank account. But there weren't because our affiliate program paid out like 60%. So money would come in, but we were paying it right out to all of our affiliates. We're just doing our thing, doing our events. And at the end of the day, what I'll say is it doesn't, didn't matter that our disclaimers were big. You know, it didn't, none of that, none of that mattered because by the time the FTC is done with you. There's nothing left. They've frozen everything. So it doesn't matter if you wash out of that kind of on the right side or the wrong side, however you want to view that. And it's unfortunate. It felt like a big black eye and a punch to the gut. And it also reminded me that this was a two-year-old business. I've been doing business a long time and doing it well. And this is money that can be made again. This is community that can be rebuilt. And to this day, I still get messages from people who are like, man, I sure do miss you guys. And I miss what we did. And I'm like, yeah, it was, it was a fun run. And now we get to regroup and we get to reinvent and we get to move on. And this is the other thing I'll say is back when I got sued, which was back in 2018. At the time, the FTC was allowed to kind of like freeze all your accounts and they could kind of secretly go in and get a judge to do all this before you actually got your lawsuit in hand. They actually don't do that anymore for the most part. These days, they learned to write letters. So they'll usually write you a letter in advance and say, hey, we feel like you're doing something wrong. We want to talk to you. And then through that process, people usually get a little freaked out and end up settling with them before. they ever even have to go to court, before they ever even have to go through that process.

• Speaker #1

  What happens if you're doing nothing wrong?

• Speaker #0

  It depends, Norm. It depends. Because when it comes to the eyes of the FTC, they can consider lots of things that you consider doing right, they consider doing wrong. And that's why I said, my disclaimers can be this big, the biggest font I can use, or they can be the smallest font, and it doesn't matter. Because by the time you try to fight it all, it just, they have the upper hand. They are the FTC. Their rules are broad. And so they're going to probably have you settle out before you can do anything else because you're probably going to run out of money because your accounts are frozen. Or, you know, you're going to run out of just energy because it's a lot of energy. And I was literally the very last person to sign. sign off on my settlement agreement because I just was like, this is so wrong. I feel like this is the mafia. And it made me realize, wow, I could have been a drug dealer selling drugs as an actual criminal and I would have more rights right now than I do through a civil suit with the FTC. And that was really disappointing. But it also made me a lot smarter and it made me understand that there are so many pieces of compliance. And also, I think because we moved so big so fast, that we were a moving target. And so part of me goes, there's something to be said for growing slow and easy, and still doing great work and still being able to sell great products in the marketplace.

• Speaker #2

  Hey, Kevin King and Norm Farrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We've got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player, or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of The Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm?

• Speaker #1

  Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast?

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time? It's just me on here. You're not going to know what I say.

• Speaker #1

  I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too. You can go back and forth with one another. Yikes But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content... Somewhere up there, there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits.

• Speaker #2

  Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm.

• Speaker #3

  A couple of the things where they were after, something that just maybe you were...

• Speaker #0

  So the credit card piece, right? Because they could call it credit card laundering, but... At the end of the day, that's not what we're doing. We just opened some entities we didn't use, and then we have our regular. So what happens is they don't come in on just one thing. They come in on multiple, multiple things. The other one was coaching. So we had a program that had coaches attached to it, taking people through the process. They said that what happens is you're leased. Your least sophisticated consumer, and this is their verbiage, not mine, has to be able to basically do the thing you say you're going to do. Our course was named How to Make Six Figures in 90 Days. It didn't say you would make six figures in 90s. It was just a how to. And then there was a course attached to it. And it walked through the affiliate marketing model and how you could sell other people's products or your own products. And we had a coach that took them through that system and that process. Our lead magnet was really cheap. It was like a $49 product. So my problem wasn't with my consumers and the clients who paid $30,000 for events and masterminds and all that stuff. It was with the least sophisticated group of consumers, which is normally your largest batch when you have a very low end front end offer. And so this is where they would bring in the sad story of, well, you know, Janet is a single mom and she's 19 and she's a waitress and she bought your course and she didn't make six figures in 90 days. So that was also, so that's where they pull in truth and advertising. And so it was something that would be one very clear example for you of one of the main, their main sticks with us.

• Speaker #3

  Sorry, you went through that. But I know some people have done that. been through similar things and it's no fun. And I've been through the IRS ringer myself on some stuff and dealt with the mafia too. So I know what it's like to go to the bank and like, what happened to my money?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #4

  Yeah. It was,

• Speaker #0

  that part was not fun. Yeah.

• Speaker #4

  Why did you take my money?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. No, it definitely was not a fun process. I don't recommend it. And also, it gives me some, it gives me, I don't know, a war story from the industry, you know, an industry war story. And I feel like I'm also really empowered to be able to also assist my clients and able to say, hey, that looks a little too gray, you know. Or like some things are very black and white and some things are shades of gray.

• Speaker #3

  And the question just remind me, I just made a note. I don't know if you saw it when you were. telling that story, I pick up the phone because I'll forget it. We have, for our agency, we have a spreadsheet that the spreadsheet shows how they can do with cold email. It's estimates. It's not promises. And the same with warm. It's like, give us your figures. We'll plug it in. This is kind of what you might be able to expect just to set expectations. And I say it on the call. Like, hey, this is not a promise. This is not a guarantee. This is just, you know, but it doesn't say it on that spreadsheet. So if they screenshot that. It doesn't say it there. So I'm like, I just made a note, put that on the spreadsheet. So it's if someone screenshots it, results not typical. These are estimates. So so

• Speaker #0

  I mean,

• Speaker #3

  it just made me a norm from a lawsuit.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And there's a lot of things, you know, in disclaimers and your terms and conditions. And and this is what I will say is after being on the stand and having to testify, I have never come out of a lawsuit feeling so good. Because I was like, wow, I had great systems and processes. We had a 99% customer service rate. Like I could look back from those levels of compliance and feel really solid about how things were run. And also just like, well, crap. We were just, we were in that pile and it was the luck of the draw with all of that. And we were unlucky. And now I've learned from it and I get to now it empowers me. It gives me an extra tool in my box to go out to my clients and be like, Hey This is black, this is white, here are shades of gray. How far do you want to dance in those shades of gray? And how are you clear and are you consistent and are you in integrity in the products that you're selling and how you're selling them? And that's the bottom line.

• Speaker #3

  So you left the courthouse, got in your car, rolled down the windows and sang a song.

• Speaker #1

  Always. Always. All right. We are at the top. We're past the top of the hour.

• Speaker #3

  I don't have too much fun with Mary. Mary, if people want to reach out or know more about you or follow you or get the scoop, what's the best way for them to do that?

• Speaker #0

  Oh, so many easy ways. So all my handles for social media are at. The Mary D. So that's T-H-E-M-A-R-Y-D-E-E. And you can go right to my website, which is Mary D. M-A-R-Y-D-E dot net.

• Speaker #1

  Perfect. All right. At the end of every podcast, we ask our misfit if they know a misfit.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, I would say I know lots of misfits. I am going to call in my misfit. I know it's taking me a second.

• Speaker #1

  We'll put the Jeopardy song on for you.

• Speaker #0

  I want to give you guys a really good, oh, Sebastian Cruz.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, very good.

• Speaker #0

  My misfit. Yeah, you guys are going to love him. He's great.

• Speaker #2

  Awesome.

• Speaker #1

  That's awesome. All right, Mary, that's it for today. You're no longer in the firing line. You were awesome.

• Speaker #2

  That was great. Thanks, Mary.

• Speaker #0

  Yay. That was fun. That was fun,

• Speaker #2

  guys. Awesome.

• Speaker #1

  There goes my thing again. There we go. I'm back. Okay, Mary. We'll see you later. Talk to you later. This bloody computer with those magic corners. It keeps...

• Speaker #3

  That was great. It's different getting into a different mindset and different way of thinking. And that was some really good advice from Mary there. I think people... We'll enjoy that episode.

• Speaker #1

  Oh yeah, there's so many different areas that we covered, especially the FTC. That's surprising. I mean, you got to dig in, you got to do some research and make sure you're compliant with everything.

• Speaker #3

  Yep. And the bigger you get, the more, the bigger the target. That's like she said. There we go. That fast growth, put the target on your back for sure. And then dealing with the public, you know, and the type of people you're dealing with. They expect one thing, get something different. Enough of them complaining. Think they can get something out of it? They will.

• Speaker #1

  Yep.

• Speaker #3

  All right, sir. If they can get something out of it, what can you get out of it if you go to the marketingmisfits.co?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I would suggest going to YouTube and going to Marketing Misfits Podcast, where you can listen to all of these long-form podcasts. Or if you just want the three-minute version. We dissect each of the long versions and we put them up on YouTube at Marketing Misfits Clips. And we have a new newsletter out there where you can go to misfits.news.

• Speaker #3

  Yeah, it comes out every Wednesday. It's Misfits Newsletter. It's got a lot of actionable, tactical stuff, summaries of some of the podcasts. If you don't want to listen to the whole podcast, you can get some of the good nuggets out of it. And a new episode of this. Podcast comes out every single Tuesday. So that means I got to see you again next Tuesday, Norm. I got to look at your beard again. Can you just like put on like a green screen thing down below so like the beard doesn't show?

• Speaker #1

  All right, everybody. I'll be closing off the show today. Thanks for watching. Kevin's being annoying. We'll see you later.

• Speaker #4

  Oh, no.