Transcription

• Speaker #0

  The infomercial industry, as you recall it, is still active in a $9 billion overnight industry. A lot of things are infomercials that you don't really realize are infomercials in short form. That's what you're seeing on TikTok is, I'm going to do a quick demo on this brownie. How did that woman make that brownie? And there's some URL that leads someplace. That's an infomercial. They have the benefit of not having to buy commercial time so they can keep you watching for an hour. The psychology is you have psychologically invested so much time in it already, you might as well buy it. It's not that the industry went away. It's that the industry actually took over everything. I wrote this probably in 2011. I said, we're about to move from a push model of advertising to a pull model. Because people will tell you they hate commercials, and those same people will tune into the Super Bowl not for footlong. People love commercials when they're about them.

• Speaker #1

  What's the key when it comes to writing an infomercial?

• Speaker #0

  The process is...

• Speaker #2

  You'll watch all of our marketing mistakes. Nor for our...

• Speaker #1

  Mr. Farrar, what's happening, man? How's life in the great white north? Don't even ask.

• Speaker #3

  We got you the snow. Now we're into the rain. Still can't get out there for a cigar.

• Speaker #1

  Well, you know, this would be perfect if this was the old days. Because if this was the old days, you could just turn on the TV and watch your... What's that show you watch?

• Speaker #3

  90 Day Fiance?

• Speaker #1

  90 Day Fiance, I was about to say something housewives. I knew it was, okay, 90 Day Fiance that you watch, like they have like 27 versions of. But, you know, you could, when those go off the air at like 10 o'clock, you could be watching some infomercials, how to slice your ham, how to grill your hamburgers, how to exercise your abs. You remember those days when you'd turn off and you're like, the next thing would be there are bars on the screen and say, we're off the air, see you at 6 a.m. Or... some ads would start showing up. Do you remember those days?

• Speaker #3

  Absolutely. Oh, yeah, they did. We have electricity, too.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, okay.

• Speaker #3

  And indoor plumbing.

• Speaker #1

  Whoa, holy cow. You're moving up, man.

• Speaker #3

  We're pretty advanced. But, yeah, I remember those days like it was yesterday.

• Speaker #1

  It's funny to me because, you know, in the infomercial space, which that's what those are called, you don't that still exists, but not to the extent that it used to. Now, I remember watching those back when I was in my early 20s, like this is like in the mid 80s, late 80s, early 90s. And that was when it was boom. I was like, I want to do that. And I actually tried to do argon oil. We went into that and started and looked at importing argon oil and doing a whole thing before argon oil became a big thing in the beauty space. But we just couldn't figure out how to finance it properly because we couldn't get the supply that we thought we could sell on infomercials. But now today. The new infomercial is TikTok shop or streaming TV, you know, doing ads and stuff. And the targeting that you can do today is just crazy. Because back in the day, if you'd run an infomercial in Des Moines, Iowa at 10 p.m., you'd hope that a certain section of your audience would be watching it. But most of those people weren't. Well, with today's technology, everybody that you target, everybody that's in your audience, you can send it to them to actually target them much better. So it's interesting. So our guest today, that's... what he, the world he comes from. And he's still doing it to this day, but it's, it's evolved. And so I think it's going to be interesting and fascinating to see the psychology behind selling stuff on TV. Yeah. And let's bring them up now. Ron Lynch, come on up.

• Speaker #0

  Well, good afternoon, gentlemen.

• Speaker #1

  How you doing, Ron? Thanks for coming on. So 200, a hundred million dollars. I mean, sorry. So a hundred million units and. like $200 million in sales, something like that. That's what the George Foreman Grill did.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, that's probably right. I'm scratching my head because that's 25, 26 years ago, but yeah, that's in that neighborhood.

• Speaker #1

  And you were behind that, right?

• Speaker #0

  I worked for the agency that did that. They hired me. That's kind of was the moment I got into infomercials. They were looking for space in retail grocery stores to do man on the street interviews. And so I was grocery store director. a retailer, and they rented space and I wanted to be in doing what they were doing. And so they ended up filming in my store and I ended up writing a movie and selling it to George Foreman's agent. And they were like, hey, you write movies? Could you write an infomercial? And I'm like, absolutely. And so that's kind of where it started for me was around that time. I rolled right into OxyClean and Orange Glow and Miracle Blade Knives and all kinds of gadgets and products people have, which eventually... Got us to GoPro cameras and Samsung robotics. So I've been around the block.

• Speaker #3

  Just some small brands.

• Speaker #1

  So you said grocery store. So let's take a step back here.

• Speaker #0

  Sure.

• Speaker #1

  So you said that, how did you end up running in the grocery business? Walk us through that.

• Speaker #0

  It was my high school job. I was a grocery checker and I went to college. And in college, I was studying pre-law. And I thought, oh, well, I'd like to maybe be a lawyer. So I took an acting class. So I was very... nervous and presenting. And so my day job was working in a grocery store and going to college. And I happened to get an invite from a friend to audition for a movie that Robert Altman was directing. And I got a role in a movie. So I got a SAG card. And so from about the years of 19 years old to about 25 or 26, I'd work in the grocery store and I'd go be in a movie now and again. And I learned how films were made and I've learned how grocery operations work. And I had a choice at one point, right about the time I met my wife, to either go to Hollywood and become an actor or stay and become a grocer. And I stayed in Seattle and I became a grocer. And I worked my way up inside that system through departments and managerial systems. So eventually I was a CEO of a company and running grocery stores and departments and knowing how retail mechanics and supply chain and unions and all of those things worked there.

• Speaker #3

  Did I hear properly Jeff Bridges? actually gave you advice on how to write?

• Speaker #0

  He was the guy who made me write. I was standing on set with him in a movie called American Heart. It also had Edward Furlong in it. And I was standing next to Jeff Bridges in the train station in Seattle where we were filming. And I said, how do I get to be in your shoes? I'm this no name, extra, with a few lines in every movie. I'd like to be in your shoes. And he said, super easy. Do what me and my brother did. Make sure your dad is Lloyd Bridges. we laughed and he said no right if you start writing movies if you start to write content you'll always have a job the writers are always working and the rest of us are always trying to get jobs and so i started writing and i wrote two screenplays and in at the grocery store i was a grocery checker and one of my customers was an on-air talent in seattle on an afternoon talk show and i stopped her and i said hey do you know anybody in hollywood i've written a couple movies And she said, yes, I do. So I went to Kinko's and printed my movies off and brought them in and kept them under my check stand. And she came in and she took them. And it turns out she was Kathleen Kennedy's sister. And I did not know that. And so about three weeks later, I was on the phone with Kathleen Kennedy and Steven Spielberg. And they said, hey, we read your stuff. You got a gift for this. How do you do it? I explained how I did it. And they said, well, that's how it's done. And so they invited me to join something called the Chesterfield Film Academy. that they sponsored where they sponsored young screenwriters to write screenplays. And so that's kind of how I got onto the writing side. So I had this dual track of at nighttime I was writing movies, and at the daytime I was operating a grocery store.

• Speaker #1

  So on the writing side, did you just sell it, or did it actually get made into an actual film?

• Speaker #0

  So neither of those two films got turned into anything. But subsequently, I saw an episode of HBO's Real Sex, and they highlighted these latex life-size heavy dolls that people were buying as intimate partners.

• Speaker #1

  Norm's got a few of them.

• Speaker #0

  Well, why not? And I thought, man, this has got to be an awkward purchase. Like, what do you do when your mom comes over? What do you do? So I got this idea of a British sex comedy. um At the time, Hugh Grant and Liz Hurley were a couple. So I wrote this film casting them in my mind. And that's the film that George Foreman's agent, Sam Perlmutter, optioned. And at the time he optioned it, I was transferring from the grocery business into the infomercial business. And as things go in Hollywood, it took about two years for him to pay attention to the script that he had optioned. And he asked me to come back and finish the script because he was ready to make a movie. And I was, at that point, I was making over a million dollars in the infomercial business. And I was completely, like, I had no time whatsoever. And I said, good luck. I can't do it. And he optioned it. And it eventually got changed and made into a film called Lars and the Real Girl, which was Ryan Gosling's first big movie. I didn't get the writing credit for it. And that's how it works in Hollywood is you option something and they bring in a WGA writer. who rewrites it, which they did. They moved the plot from England to Iceland, I believe. And that's the way it went. But it did get made.

• Speaker #3

  So what happens with something like that? Do you get any royalties or anything because it was your script? I have no clue on this.

• Speaker #0

  No, the WGA writer will get royalties on it. I got the option fee. So they paid me and a friend of mine the option fee. And then because we turned down the right to rewrite it and join the guild, then we relinquished our rights. So.

• Speaker #1

  but that's Hollywood for you.

• Speaker #0

  But it's also, you know, it's one of those things in life that it's, it's okay to let go of the last thing. Cause the next thing.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Without that, I wouldn't have got to the next step. So it served its purpose for me fully.

• Speaker #3

  It sounded like within those first, I don't know how many years from going from the grocery store to writing off these movies. How long, first of all, how long ago, how long did that take? And then secondly, what happened afterwards? I know once I sell something, I kind of go into a valley. It takes a bit of time to get going again. So how long did it take you to continue and continue to grow?

• Speaker #0

  So I kind of define that period as from about 20 years old. And in the middle of that was my marriage. I was 26, 25 when I got married. And then to the time I was 32 or 33, I was in the grocery business and had excelled. I actually became the grocer of the year in the Pacific Northwest about the year before I exited. So I was very active in my grocery career and I was writing films at night and I never felt a lull. And I've always got like right now I have 20 more movies that I have notes on that I haven't written. And I've got. 20 scripts that I have written sitting here in a pile. So I'm productive. But the pivot was really going from that grocery job to being an executive director at a company that did soft goods, that did appliances and stuff. So I went from grocer to work at this agency writing infomercials. And then within 18 months, I was hired by a consumer goods company. And they paid royalties. So it was this massive financial transformation of my life from, you know, making about a hundred grand a year to making much more than that in a period of only about 18 months. And that was a very dramatic, I'll say emotional shift. And of course, an infomercial is a little bit like a film. You don't know how it does until six months after you've made it because there's all of this processing. editing and media time and testing. And sometimes you're making an infomercial with a product that isn't even built. We call them proto-craps. Six months later, the thing comes out of the factory and you have to reshoot certain elements of the show to actually sell the final version. So that was a very common thing in my career. But I've never really had a lull or a deep emotional valley. It hurts when the shows don't work.

• Speaker #1

  Hmm.

• Speaker #0

  So my first four shows were over a hundred million dollars each in revenue. Obviously I got a royalty, so I got a very small fraction of that. But then my next four shows were zero. They all failed. And you spend four or five months on a show and it fails and you do four or five in a row. You go, man, maybe this is over. And what that forced me to do is quit thinking I was the magic. and realized it was the product that was the magic. And I'd been picking really poor products based upon my ego. Once I got away from that and I said, okay, does this product actually make the customer's life better in a profound way and got to be highly selective of what I chose to do creatives on, then it all kind of everything flowed from there.

• Speaker #1

  Hey, Norm, do you know any sellers out there that are just burned out doing this e-com game?

• Speaker #3

  You know, I know a lot of people that have talked to us, you know, when we go to events. And it's not only that, they don't know where to start.

• Speaker #1

  Who would you recommend they talk to?

• Speaker #3

  The first one that comes to mind is Quietlight Brokerage. And here's why. They're going to build you up. They're going to understand your company. And at the end of the day, you're going to know how to maximize your valuation. So the very first thing you need to do is go and get your free confidential evaluation at QuietLight.com. They're going to ask a couple of questions. You're going to meet up. It's one-on-one with somebody over there. And then, you know, let the games begin.

• Speaker #1

  Awesome. What was that website again?

• Speaker #3

  It's quietlight.com.

• Speaker #1

  Awesome. I'm going to head over there.

• Speaker #3

  How many infomercials have you done?

• Speaker #0

  I honestly don't know. I'm going to guess that the long-form half-hour shows, I'm probably around somewhere between 85 and 100. And for short... form commercials, it's probably around 350 or 400.

• Speaker #1

  So what's the key when it comes to writing an infomercial? I mean, what is the process like of sitting down with the client and actually creating that pitch? Because you have to entertain, you have to grab attention, you have to do a number of things. So what's the process like when sitting down to write a script versus compared to a movie or something like you were doing before? actually making that switch to actually now we've got to entertain and sell at the same time.

• Speaker #0

  So there's layers to an infomercial, which now in today's media could be broken apart and called a media campaign or an online campaign. If you took a 30-minute, 28, 30-minute infomercial and cut it into all of its elements, you could feed that out online in all of the tiny little snippets and you'd have a constructive creative. But the process is... what is the magic of the product? So the first thing I do is create a creative and strategic brief. What's the promise this product holds? What's the problem? What's the solution? What's the USP? What are all of the features? What are the benefits that are associated with each one of those features? So there's an engineering conversation for the creative first. Then you back up and you go, okay, now if I look at the benefits, because I know people... by benefits, not features, what are three benefits that I can circle that I know one type of audience member would appreciate? And then what are three more than another audience member? So you back build from benefits that are clustered and then you go, okay, there's a customer that would want this, that, and the other thing. And you start to build those, I'll say demonstrations and with those testimonial stories. So... Then comes entertainment. So I'll give you, I'll just use the very first infomercial, full-length infomercial I ever wrote as that example. It was for a product called The Ultimate Chopper, which eventually turned into a product that you would know as the Magic Bullet. And it's a food processor. And so I, as a grocer and a cook, I went, what are things that this thing does? And that I would start with the food. What is the result? Because I want the food and I have to have the device to get the result. So I'm like, oh, guacamole and salsa. Everybody eats guacamole and salsa. It's a very easy thing to do. We normally buy it. We don't make it. Now it's, hey, you could do this yourself. And I could do a demo of guacamole and salsa side by side with two machines. It's very, very simple. Well, what's something else that somebody makes that's chopped up? An omelet. So now we're going to go from there to omelet. So we start to go into the food categories of common things. oh, I just need the great cheese. I just want to chop an onion. And I'm doing this from memory right now, but that's actually probably the flow of the show that was in the ultimate chopper and in the magic bullet for years is what are these common foods that people would want? Then go, oh, how tough is it? Now let's get to a toughness demonstration. We're going to grind concrete and glass and bricks with this thing to show how tough the engine is and how sharp the blade and the blade doesn't dull. So there's a process to it, and the process is benefit with wonder, something that is pinged by desire, then promise of proof. I can't destroy it. It will be tough. It's a good quality thing. Then I want to hear some consumers that agree with my story. And if I build the testimonials correctly, it'll feel like five people are telling Little Red Riding Hood. And they all only have to tell a snippet of the story. And as a viewer, I perceive they all had the exact same experience. So Little Red Riding Hood had her cape and she was going to go see her grandmother. Then the next person comes in. So she grabbed her basket and she headed off into the woods. And then the woods were dark and the house and the wolf. And five people can tell that story. If you do that sequentially, they don't have to all tell the whole story. but you know they all experienced the same experience and so these were very simple techniques And then in my second infomercial, Billy Mays had become a friend of mine, and he helped me do some demonstration, some crazy demonstration work in a show that really taught me, if you're going to do a demonstration, make it over the top and outlandish, because that's good TV.

• Speaker #1

  So long form is, just to explain to the audience, long form is typically 30 minutes, and the short form is typically like two minutes or 60 seconds, 90 seconds, something like that. So a long form, usually the pattern was like one of these pain points solution things, then the pitch, a minute or two of the pitch, get your credit card out, call us, I turn a number by now. And then you continue on and show another problem solution type of situation. Then it's the pitch and then another problem solution. That's kind of like the pattern so that you're hoping that someone's flipping on, they come on at the right time or they stay. And you're just trying to catch them and not bore them and get them to stay there long. Because the longer they stay, the more likely they are to buy.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So your first 90 seconds to two minutes of this show is called the open or the tease. And I'm going to show you what I'm going to show you. It's like the lawyer coming out and saying, hey, in this trial, you're about to find this out. You got this problem. You got a solution. Just stay tuned and you're going to see all this crazy stuff. You're going to hear from people, experts and people. Okay. So that's your open. Then you have about six minutes. of host, co-host, introducing the problem, the solution, doing a couple demonstrations. Then you have about 90 seconds of testimonials. And then you go to your first commercial, about seven, eight minutes. And that's a three-minute commercial that retells that story and presents an offer and the bonuses. Now, these TV shows aren't scheduled. So people are coming across them as they're changing channels. They get bored from something they're watching, and in their commercial break, they find you. So now you get to act two, and you kind of start over, but you drill deeper into questions that you know that you created in the original seven-minute pitch that people are going to have, and now you dig into the second layer of objections with more demos, more explanation, more proof. It's a legal case. Now you get to 21 minutes. You run that same commercial again with the CTA. You come out of there at about... 25 minutes usually. Now you only have three and a half minutes left because the shows are 28 minutes and 30 seconds long. So you do some kind of really radical demonstration, typically at the end, like the thing that they waited the whole thing for, that we're going to have six acrobats climb up on our step ladder, paint the ceiling, and have a bear climb up the ladder and whatever. And we did stuff like that. And then the host wraps it up and says, By now, we've told you everything we can tell you. And then you run a little 30-second commercial with what is now your URL. Back in those days, it was just a 1-800 number. And you wrap that up. But it is the cadence of every... This originated with the fair pitch. And the people that were successful on TV, we'd go find them at the fair. They're all fair pitchmen. That's where Billy Mays came from.

• Speaker #1

  Boardwalk and Atlantic State Boardwalk and the whole... out of the county fairs on the weekends?

• Speaker #0

  Yep. We used to fly the world for them. Go to the ideal home show in London, go to Kansas. And we would find these talent there. And we're like, that person would be great on TV.

• Speaker #1

  And so how does that evolve now to the digital age where there's still infomercials that run in some of that form, but people don't watch that or see that as much. It's now more, it's the TikTok people, it's the Instagram people, it's the creators, influencers doing a version of that. How have you seen that evolve and change? And what are some of the differences that you see that you've got to do now that you didn't do back then or vice versa? Or is it just all the same psychology? It's just a different medium?

• Speaker #0

  Well, two things to address there. One is that the infomercial industry, as you recall it, is still active in a $9 billion overnight industry. That's still going on. The products are typically more expensive. They're selling cruises. They're selling... Um, but they're selling health and diet and cooking that, that they're, if you turn on your TV at three in the morning, you're still going to see infomercials and there's a lot of them. Then the short form, the one minute to two minute, a lot of things are infomercials that you don't really realize are infomercials in short form. And I'll give you an example for years. E-Harmony introduced themselves with an ad campaign. And while you had to go on e-harmony.com to sign up, to get, to do your date. And there were these short testimonial segments of people that were meeting. And at the end, there's a 1-800 number or a website, and you go there. Anything that ends with go to our URL right now, and there's a lot. of stuff on TV. If you watch Fox News, their commercial breaks are loaded with short form infomercials for health products, for supplements, for doctors curing this and that that are targeted at that senior audience that watches Fox News. So that's a tremendous business still in multi billion dollar business. Then online, essentially, if you took a 30 minute infomercial and cut it down to its components. That's what you're seeing on TikTok is I'm going to do a quick demo on this brownie. You're like, how did that woman make that brownie? And there's some URL that leads someplace. There'll be a doctor giving a snippet about psychology or health. You click on that and you end up in a VSL, a video sales letter. We've all, I think, clicked on that thing on the web and like this person is talking and I feel like I'm watching a movie and the thing will never end. That's an infomercial. And they know that they have the benefit of not having to buy commercial time so that they can keep you watching for an hour. And often these things do and don't tell you at the end what to what it costs. The psychology is you have psychologically invested so much time in it already. You might as well buy it. And that really is the mechanism that causes a lot of purchases on that. So it's it's not that the industry went away. It's that the industry actually took over everything. And we don't recognize it because it's just endemic to our culture.

• Speaker #3

  I see this on TikTok now, exactly what you're talking about. The whole transformation going over there, TikTok lives. If you want to do your own live long form or just continuing, they could do it 24-7 if they wanted. But some very successful creators and brands that are just doing that right now. And yeah, they're in control of their own destiny. And the other thing that... I noticed with the really good infomercials is that, yes, there's the entertainment value, but also there is that perception, very high perception of what you're getting. And there's a specific price point. Now, is there a lot of research that goes into those price points? Because those are the ones that, you know, like I'm looking at it going, oh yeah, I want to buy that. And my wife is saying, no, you don't. But like $29.99 or $29.99 times. two payments or how do those prices come around? Is it a focus group?

• Speaker #0

  No, it's actually online testing and media testing online. When I do a television program, I might run 14 versions to finally settle on the most utilitarian price that is most efficient for the show. But I'll give you the basic psychology of it. People think in incremental pieces of revenue and the pieces are... are $20 because that's what comes out of the cash machine. Then they think in $100 bills. So for instance, you just said, hey, it's $29.95. I'm going to say, Norm, we got to test that at $39 because you just left $10 on the table. Because they think in $20 bills and $29 is actually a really weird increment that does work sometimes. But even you, you turned it into a multiple of three of $29, which immediately goes to $100 in their mind. Right. You naturally did that without even thinking about it. You kind of exposed that psychology. So for years, the number was

• Speaker #1

  $19.95, $39.95, $59.95, and $99.95. That's interesting. I never even thought of it that way, of the $20 coming out of the ATM. One of the things, too, you said, I think one time when we met, you told me something about what you're doing with YouTube, with now the targeting that you can do versus the Fox News is more of a spray and pray. I mean, yeah, there's a demographic and stuff there that they're looking for. But you said that now with YouTube TV, not YouTube, the YouTube channel, but actually the cable version of YouTube, YouTube TV, you're doing some amazing targeting and amazing stuff for. helping brands like sell there and i think a lot of people just aren't aware of that it's not just youtube tv it's a hulu has it now and amazon prime was doing it and it's goku all aboard but i can i can outline a lot of people don't realize the power of what that can do and how you can test and how you can iterate and can you talk walk us down that a little bit and explain some of the opportunities there sure i mean the fundamental thing that's this the just the easy walk into that is youtube is a now a product of google

• Speaker #0

  So it's tied to Google Analytics. YouTube television is the fastest growing cable access network in North America. More people are turning to YouTube television where they would have gone to Time Warner Cable or Roadrunner, these other cable services of the past. Now more people are every day and YouTube television is very accessible via things like Starlink. So you get people in remote areas. So you start to think about the distribution network nature of the network. It's a distribution network. So I go into that distribution network and now they have access to the search criteria and the IP addresses of their customer base. Because when I turn on YouTube TV, it goes to my account. When my wife turns it on, she turns it on for her account. So they know who's turned on who they're talking to. Now as an advertiser, I can say I want 60, 50 55 to 65 year old women that are in menopause that are feeling like they're 15 pounds overweight. And my wife sees that commercial. I don't see that commercial. I see a commercial that's targeted at 55 to 65 year old men that would work. And that exact same moment, she could be watching TV in the bedroom and I could be watching it in the living room and we're going to get different creatives for different products because our IP addresses have been targeted. And so that's highly efficient media purchasing paired with creatives. And what we're moving to because of the way that we imbibe material, particularly with our phones, and by the way, that Google sensitivity will know if the person has a second device in their hand, whether it's their iPod or their phone. or iPad or phone. So the intelligence of the system is allowing me as an advertiser to pinpoint the person and sometimes the offer. So let's just say we had a kid and they know that I have a kid in the house and the kid is between 14 and 18 years old. I might see a proactive skincare commercial or my wife might see one, but it won't talk. target her, it'll be a commercial about boys with acne and an offer that's $14.95. Instead of the $59 offer, they would show her as a 55-year-old woman in menopause.

• Speaker #1

  Same product, just different pricing.

• Speaker #0

  The offers changed, the creatives changed based upon what the intelligence they have about the consumer in the house.

• Speaker #1

  So they know, let's back up on that just to double down. You said they know that it's based on your login. So if your wife logs in as her, everything's targeted is her Um, and they know that there's a phone, she has a phone in her hand or there's a phone nearby. Maybe it's her son's phone. So then the targeting even gets more granular based on that.

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. Google has that much data on you. So that, and that's also, you could look at it the other way. I mean, it sounds kind of nefarious, but from their side, their argument would be we're custom making advertising for stuff that you actually need and want. You're not seeing all the stuff you don't want, which is true that. And I think I wrote this probably in 2011. I said, we're about to move from a push model of advertising to a pull model. Because people will tell you they hate commercials, and those same people will tune into the Super Bowl not for football. People love commercials when they're about them. So that's what the system is slowly turning into is a pull system where by our contribution to the system. We're giving them enough information and data that we're customizing. The advertising is actually being customized for us, as are the offers.

• Speaker #1

  I think it's Gary Vee that says, you are the algorithm. There is no algorithm. There is no TikTok algorithm. There is no Facebook algorithm. The algorithm is you.

• Speaker #0

  It's your, I mean, you know from what you've clicked on what comes up next. I mean, you hear people say every day, my wife and I were talking about Beats. And we have never had a conversation in my life about Beats. And suddenly there's four recipes for Beats in my Facebook feed. You have granted them access to listen to you, to look to you, to follow you, to track you in everything you do. I have a friend in the intelligence community and he's like, we love it when people buy Teslas because the minute a person buys a Tesla, the NSA has cameras in that vehicle. They have access to them. They know everybody's phone connects to the Tesla, so they know who the passengers are. They can take photographs. And you don't realize, they can read your emails because you don't realize through the terms of service of Tesla. You've agreed to allow your phone to connect, thus your emails to be read, and they don't need a search warrant. That's how weird our world has gotten, that we are actually giving permission to these corporations. We're relinquishing our freedom in the guise of consumerism and wanting things customized for us. Comfort for knowledge.

• Speaker #1

  I think as you told me once that I think it's Planet, I can never say the word right, Planeteer. Palantir. That's right. Thank you. They have when that health executive got murdered on the streets of New York. And within, I think you said within minutes or something, Palantir had like something like 86% or 90% of all the security cameras in that area. They were able to tie into it and actually pinpoint. What happened? And, you know, they can't just come out in public and say, we got you. But they go through the process of illusion and whatever they got to do to say we know who the guy is. It's that there's no no such thing as privacy anymore, especially in the United States. I mean, Europe's trying to do some stuff, but still there's no such thing as privacy.

• Speaker #0

  It's done. Yeah, it's done. We have way we have way past over that line. And it's just like to your point, it's only being revealed. It was within three hours of that murder. 30,000 cameras within a six block radius had captured six images of the assailant and they were putting them on TV already. Here he is at the bike stand. Here he is at the coffee shop. Here he is at the... It's Manhattan. And they use facial recognition to boop, and broadcast it. And that's how he was caught. And the reason that... they had to go about it that way. And this relates also to the kid that shot Charlie Kirk and how they eventually caught him. They hadn't been on airplanes in a while. For the previous two years, when you went through TSA in the United States, everybody's face was scanned or they had a real ID. And so there's a 3D rendering of you in Palantir's system and in Idemia's system. Idemia holds the ID piece of it and Palantir owns the access and intelligence piece and they work together. And the real risk, I'll say from a sovereignty perspective or a thought crime perspective, and Palantir uses that phrase, by the way, that we're getting to thought crime, is there's predictive analysis on your behavior and there's absolute forensics on everything that you do digitally. Meaning, if I suspect you've done something, Kevin. I can go look and find out whether I can prosecute you. And once I know that I have the evidence, then I can come and run a traditional investigation that looks very above board and know exactly where to collect the evidence with a warrant that matches the evidence that I actually already have in my hand. And now I can convict you. And that we're getting to that sort of level of, I'll say, intelligence and security. That is problematic.

• Speaker #2

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• Speaker #1

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• Speaker #2

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• Speaker #1

  Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence. You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description or notes below and mention Misfits, that's M-I-S-F-I-T-S, to get 10% off your first campaign. stack influence.com so how do marketers deal with that like ring just had this issue i think it's a ring doorbell on the super bowl where they had they did a big super you're talking about the super one people watching for their entertainment people love this one commercial of like uh oh your dog is lost in the neighborhood um it'll ring we have this new thing called whatever fine puppy or whatever it was called uh well we can uh we can use the cameras to actually you find where your dog is and bring the dog back home and people are like that's all cool that's cool that's neat and then all of a sudden people are like wait a second if they can find my dog What else can they find? And so it's how do you market around this technology as a misfit or whatever? How do you use this to your advantage? I mean, Norm and I are doing it with intent-based emails right now where we know we capture someone within a few hours or 70% of them, a few hours of them typing something into Google. We know they're looking for shampoo for hair loss, and we can target an ad straight to them without them ever opting in. But how do you actually? marketers take advantage of this and ride that line between freaking people out and getting people upset that they have given up their privacy?

• Speaker #0

  Well, you just described it. I do it exactly the same way you do it. Google is the one that's invading their privacy. I'm just giving Google the criteria. So I know what I want in a customer and I just inform analytics, this is what I'm looking for, and they go find it on my behalf. And it becomes... I'll say relatively efficient, but you have to remember whether it's Facebook or Google or Amazon, their job in a revenue perspective is to take as much revenue from the advertiser as they possibly can. So even when you guys feel like you're doing an efficient job, you're still paying them and you're paying them on a pain threshold. When you stop paying them, then that's when they hit a metric like this guy won't pay me anymore. He's only going to pay me $8 a lead and I want a nine. You won't do it. You have a seat. Years ago, Facebook had a piece of their business that was so smart. And it came out right about after Cambridge Analytica and Robert Mercer. I don't know if you're familiar with Robert Mercer and Cambridge Analytica. And they really funded Donald Trump's first presidential victory and were the intelligence behind that. But we were working with, I was. kind of had my fingers in Cambridge Analytica at that time as an advertiser. And the discovery of these guys utilizing, they initially used these Facebook tools of, take our survey and find out which Lord of the Rings character you are, or find out which Sex and the City girl you are. People would love to jump into these quizzes for their own identity. And at the end of the quiz, we'd say, we're about to tell you. Can we just post it right on Facebook or should we be just privately send you the information and you just let us look what your likes are? Well, people are like, well, I don't want to be a weird Lord of the Rings character. So let's do this privately and you can look at my likes. I don't, because they don't know the value of that. Well, the minute they get your likes, they know exactly everything that they need to know to market to you. So this, Facebook watched this and went. Oh, this is actually brilliant. So internally, they created what was called the Facebook auction. And you just went in and said, I'll pay you $9 for a customer. What their algorithm was figuring out was as they gave you that $9 customer, they would dwindle your customer. And you'd go, okay, I'll take one for 10. I'll take one for 20. And I'll take one for 22. And they figured out what everybody's cost of goods were. And they're allowable for advertising for every single product on the planet. So their AI now knows what everything costs to make, ship, and sell. Now they take that data and tell me what you have seen in the last eight years in Facebook advertising. But the products have too. It's more expensive products. It's cruises, it's boats, it's cars. It's not the $5 widget. It's not the fidget spinner. Those guys are gone. They don't have access to the audience anymore. It's the products got more expensive with more margin and more available advertising dollars and bigger advertisers jumped in. Now you get Fortune 500 companies are now advertising on Facebook. And what happened to Facebook's ad revenue? It doubled in the last two years.

• Speaker #2

  Take a look at these ring cameras we were just talking about. And the information, the computers, like I think the average car has 40 computers, so they can track wherever you want to go. And then you take a look at genealogy, the DNA, get your Ancestry, Ancestry.com or whatever it's called. You're volunteering all this information. They're collecting all this information. And it's just... Fairly brilliant marketers that are figuring it out. You know, let's gamify something to get your information, get that profile, make it bigger and bigger and bigger and dig down. But that's pretty scary. And especially now with the information with DNA profiles. You know, they can just take that information.

• Speaker #1

  Me and all those guys too with all your health stuff.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, you know.

• Speaker #0

  You think it's a product. They think it's research.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly.

• Speaker #0

  It is research.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Pokemon Go is my favorite example of that.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, that's an awesome story. You want to tell that story? All right.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, go ahead.

• Speaker #1

  No, go ahead, Ron.

• Speaker #0

  So when Google Earth started, they had this great idea for a product at Google of we'll map the world. And they went to the government. They said, well, you've got the satellites. We don't have any satellites because we have pictures of the Earth. And they're like, yeah. And they signed a contract and money exchanged hands. And here we are with Google Earth. And they put these cars on the street. The cars are taking pictures of stuff. Well, there's places these cars won't go. There's buildings, there's parks, there's alleyways, there's places those cars won't go. And so, Nyneemic is this company that had done some business with them before, and they're part owned by the NSA, and they have a guy who's a game designer there. And they go, what can you do? And he goes, oh, this is, this would be great. We're going to make a peekaboo game with Pikachu. We're going to take Pokemon Go characters, and we're going to hide them in the places we don't have pictures. And we'll give people points. to go take pictures of those places. And they'll think they're playing a game. And we will map the buildings, the hallways, the alleyways, the parks. We'll get every place. And that is exactly what they did. So it's an intelligence program masked as a game. And they've got a contract with the NSA. Do you think the NSA is going to say no to that? So now the government's got a stronger foothold. And I would say... Now, this is complete conjecture on my part, but I think it's probably fairly accurate. You never hear of Larry or Sergey in the news and never have. Of all these tech billionaires, the guys who started Google, you never hear about those guys. And I'm pretty sure the deal was, we'll give you all the money in the world, stay at a newspaper. We don't ever want you arrested talking to anybody. We don't want you interviewed. We don't just stay, build the program and then get the hell out of the way. And I'm pretty sure that's what's gone on. Because Google is the most invasive intelligence apparatus that the planet's ever seen. And it's presented as a product.

• Speaker #2

  With all of this going on, Ron, how do they build the trust so that people will just give their information? You know, Pikachu is a game. They think it's a game. But again, it's just gathering information. But how do you do that? How do you build trust so people will willingly give over information?

• Speaker #0

  You don't have to build trust because people naturally have it. You have to not violate trust without them knowing it. If you offer me something, the snake didn't tell Eve what knowledge would reveal to her. He told her what the apple tasted like. So temptation was there. Shiny object was there. Flavor was there. That's marketing. You don't, you don't, you know. Look at what's going on with our food supply in the United States right now and food products. We're suddenly waking up going, do you know half the stuff we're eating is poisonous? Yeah. Why? Because we made it shiny and sweet and we took chemicals and packaged them as sin and we gobble them up. And now we're like, oh, wait, wait a minute. We got ADD and cancer and we got stuff that human beings have never had before. Yep. Because we like promises. We like to believe. We like to trust. We want to be, you know, and marketing is telling us we're going to be smarter, greater, faster, sexier, taller, all the things. If I can tell you, if I can just hint at your lack. You know, Norm, you could have hair like mine.

• Speaker #1

  Bam. How much? $19.99. Free theme is in $19.99.

• Speaker #0

  You see how fast that happens in our mind? Your action was hope. Yeah. You didn't say, oh, you're lying. You went, maybe. I want that to be true. That right there is humanity.

• Speaker #1

  I want that to not be. I'm going to run an infomercial for trips to Turkey since iTicket is working on an infomercial. So, Ron, part of all this now is you've got to get attention, and attention is like the new currency. It used to be like followers and everybody said, well, I got a million followers. And now it doesn't really matter if you have a million followers. Someone with five followers can now get a video that has more views than you. What is it about... getting attention and how does that play into actually storytelling? That's one of the best ways to actually get attention. Can you tell us a little bit about your process on that?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So I think the first thing to understand that has changed over the last 50 years is the average person consumes far more, much more media and has for a period of years. When the three of us were kids, there were three TV networks and maybe one Wild West network in our town. So one ran reruns and the other were ABC, NBC and CBS. And then that turned into 30 stations and that turned into 40, 400 stations. And now we have the Internet where people think they have Web pages that are really actually television stations without FCC licensing. So you could have a website and you could run video content all day long and night, just like CNN does, if you chose to. So the viewer has... A TV in their living room, a computer on their desk, and a phone in their hand constantly. They are constantly taking in media. So now you have to be differential. And there's places attention means I am super familiar with that or I've never seen that before. I like that or what the hell is that? Those are kind of my two avenues to trigger the first reaction of attention. Thus you... explains a lot of the hyper-sexualization of media music and the shock and horror in the other half of media. And then we have things that stand out that are, I'll say, remarkable. I'll use a weird person as the—there was a gal on, I think America's Got Talent or Britain's Got Talent, Susan Boyle.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Susan.

• Speaker #0

  I remember Susan, right? Susan walked out and she looked like somebody's grandmother's nurse. I mean, she was wearing a sackcloth dress and she looked like she got thrown out of the royal family for being uglier than them, which is hard to do. And she walked out there and this swan voice comes out of this woman and it was just unbelievable. You got you. you can't believe this. That's what that's now. There's what is the recipe? Well, there's 150 recipes for that, but that's what you're trying to give is that kind of shock and wonder to people. And which is why a fair portion of our musical talent now is coming out of these talent shows is the record. Those come out of record producers going, we give up, we can't architect and shove. It's too expensive to shove a talent. into the media channel because there's too much distribution. We can't manufacture a star. We'll start with a distribution channel and let the audience pick the star out of awe and wonder. Then we'll give them a contract. And so there's a lot of things that I think are reverse engineered that way. For GoPro, the way that we got GoPro from $600,000 in volume to $600 million in volume was not in running. $50 million a year of television. We didn't. Our budgets were like maybe $5 or $6, $8 million a year. Where the real tool came in was we had a CTA that was every day we give away one of these cameras. So that got everybody to the website. Then they realized, well, everybody's going to sign up for this thing. So I'm not going to win it. So I might as well buy one. But then we gave them available music to use in their videos and the handles for the commercials, the opening to the commercial and the closing to the commercial that they could download and make their own commercials. And we arbitraged the burgeoning growth of Facebook and YouTube and said, go make your own commercials. And so suddenly there were a million people making skiing and motorcycle and waterboarding videos, advertising the product on our behalf with their own vanity.

• Speaker #1

  That's brilliant. Yeah, it's such a great idea. It's really, it was really good.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And so that's where the billion dollar growths come from, is how do you enroll the audience to not just lower your CPO, you know, your cost per acquisition, your cost per order, but to eliminate it? How do I get it to zero? How do I get my product in the hands of people? who will advertise it on my behalf because they're so thrilled with the results or the experience they're having or the notoriety of it. And that's where virality comes in.

• Speaker #1

  And then the Chinese come in and take GoPro from a... crazy valuation to next to nothing now. And they're struggling because of all the Chinese competitors. But no, but that's still a great, that's an awesome strategy to use. And that's thinking outside the box.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's the main thing that I try to adopt, and this goes all the way back to the grocery store in the very first demo, is I'm the customer, what do I want? Oh, I want some guacamole and some salsa. is how simple can I get it down to what is the benefit? What is the thing they really want? They don't want a food processor on their counter. They want guacamole. They want something that tastes great that they can get credit for. You made this, your family's going to go nuts. There's always the ultimate sell of the food processor or the cooking device in an infomercial. It's not even the food. It's the reaction. People are going to love you for this. People are going to love me for what? I don't care what it is. I'm buying it. I need people to love me. I have a great shortage of that in my life.

• Speaker #1

  What about a failure? Have you had a big failure on, I mean, you named a whole bunch of big GoPro and George Fulmer grill and all these, but is there a story of something that's just crashed and burned?

• Speaker #0

  So many. So I'll pick one, but I was telling Norm earlier, I had four. successes in a row that were over $100 million a year as shows when I first started my career infomercials. And the next four were goose eggs. And it takes you four or five months to make a show. So I'm in a position of, I've got $500, $400 million a year of stuff coming in from these products and I'm the golden boy. And then the next four duds and it's like, is my career over? So I've had that experience many times. Typically, it's from picking something that the audience doesn't want or me exuding my will upon them. Now, I found a cooking product in Europe that I loved. And T-Fall made it. And they wouldn't do a license with us. So our company built their own version of it. And it was a multi-cooker that was like a square crock pot. But the temperatures were super variable. So you could do sous vide in it or you could fry French fries in it. And every, like, it was zero. to 550 degrees. Like you could do anything. And I thought this is going to kill it. Crickets. We could not figure out how to sell that thing. And I think ultimately the problem was that it did too much. It solved so many problems that we couldn't express that properly. something that was foreign to the consumer's mind is i'm going to make stew and something and then i'm going to make french fries in it what and then i can i can bake a pie in it without a pie plate and then like you were doing things that you could you mean you make chocolate fondue in it you could do like you could do all these weird things but it just didn't it i don't think it landed because it didn't do enough we missold it we probably should have gone you We're going to replace your crock pot and give it two or three things outside of the crock pot range. And then when they got the thing, show them it did 100 other things. But we were too far over our skis.

• Speaker #2

  You know, it's interesting that you say that because one of our, I don't think you'll mind me talking about this, Kev. One of our biggest flops together, we have some very successful webinars. And... You just know it. You know, people are selling out in five minutes. We did one a few months back and it completely flopped. And why, Kevin, why did it flop?

• Speaker #1

  Too many choices. Too many choices, too many moving, too many parts. And we didn't focus in on this is the one thing. And maybe you could have a second one. Oh, you don't want that? Okay, this one? Not you don't want this one. Here's eight others for you. Yeah. It shifted the focus and we didn't drive them to the right thing and the right messaging. We're trying to do too much and too, too little of a time. And it's when he and I analyzed it afterwards, we're like, all right, it's not that the product sucks. It's not that people don't want this. It's like, we didn't, we didn't do it justice and pushing the right angle and the right one thing. What's the one thing that's going to change your life or to benefit you? Not here's a bunch of them and just pick one. And it was, yeah, that's so true.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And I would say that the internet allows for you to sell that type of thing. But you have to do it piecemeal. What's the audience that wants that benefit and that thing? And do a presentation for that. And then parse out another one. It does this. And then they later find out, oh, the thing that I have that does this also does that. That's neat. But you're right. It gets too diffuse. Choice causes confusion and confusion creates no's.

• Speaker #1

  Hey, Kevin King and Norm Farrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We've got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player, or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm?

• Speaker #2

  Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time? It's just me on here. You're not going to know what I say.

• Speaker #2

  I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too. And we'll just, you can go back and forth with one another. But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there, there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits.

• Speaker #0

  Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, we're doing, we just, I just had a call this morning with, I don't know if you know who Jason Flatland is.

• Speaker #2

  Sure.

• Speaker #1

  He's doing a pitch for me, for us at an event next week. And there's four partners in this pitch. So there's four components of this pitch. There's an AI component, an email component, a tools component, and a marketplace component. And one of the things that Jason's like, this is going to be a little bit of a challenge because there's these four parts. Usually, I'm promoting one of these parts. So we've got to change the packaging and the messaging and the approach. And I think he's going to pull it off. He's got some really cool ideas on how to integrate them all together. But it makes it much more challenging. And then we had a whole bunch of other bonuses that we were going to add in. We stripped them all out. Not all.

• Speaker #0

  Probably wise.

• Speaker #1

  We stripped out a whole bunch of the bonuses, and we're cutting it down to its core. And I think it's going to be fine. it's a challenge. And Jason even admits that, hey,

• Speaker #0

  this is not- I know nothing about this. I don't know what the thing is you're even talking about. So you can take this, I'm going to give you unsolicited advice and you can throw it in the garbage. But here's what I normally, when a client approaches me and says what you just said to me, I go, hold on a second. When I put these four things together, do they get a transformation?

• Speaker #1

  That's what we're doing. Yeah, it's an omnibus.

• Speaker #0

  It's still the transformation.

• Speaker #1

  That's exactly what we're doing. The whole thing is, well, not the whole thing, but one of the main pitches is like, I'm not here to two extra business. I'm here to 10 extra business. It's easier to 10 extra business than two extra business if you have the right tools and the right systems. And this is what it is. And you're going to get left behind. And it's a whole, it's brilliant what he's doing. He's still working through it, but the way he's packaging and doing it, this is the system and these are the parts that you need. And I think. Yeah, I'm way more excited about it than I was nervous about how this is going to convert and how this is going to do. But now, after having this two-hour talk this morning, I'm like, all right. And it clarified some stuff for him because he's a master at pitching and a master at coming up with this stuff. And I'm like, I'm ready to buy now with some of the stuff he's working on. But it's a challenge, though, because of what we're doing. And

• Speaker #0

  I always move that positioning, too, from I'm not going to. I am not here to 2x your business and I'm not here to 10x your business. I want to know why you're here. Because if you're here to 2x or 10x your business, I have the thing that will allow you to do that if you implement what I'm about to tell you.

• Speaker #1

  That's what he's doing at the beginning. It's like he's going to, people raise their hand or something, whatever he's going to do. Who's here to 2x your business? Okay, he's not going to say this, but basically you can leave the room. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  I want people to imbibe that they're doing, it's them. You're giving them power or transformation.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Because you want them to do it. And because you want the testimonials.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And it's tough. We're selling something that's so new because a lot of this has AI components that there's not a ton of testimonials yet because it's so new. So that adds a challenge to it as well. But I think I think we got it. But it's going to be it's going to be exciting just to watch the pitch, even if you are not in the market for it, just to watch this pitch and the structure of it is going to be cool. And we, I have. Three or four people I've told he's pitching. I want to be in that room. I don't want to buy what you have, but I want to see him pitch. I said, well, maybe you'll want to buy what we have after you see him pitch.

• Speaker #0

  It's not the worst way to invite somebody is, hey, I want you to come to listen to this thing just so you learn what this guy's doing.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, exactly.

• Speaker #2

  Well, we are at the top of the hour. And Kevin, do you have any other questions for Ron?

• Speaker #1

  No, I think this has been great. There's been a lot of good advice and good information here. So, Ron, I really appreciate you coming on and sharing this.

• Speaker #0

  I really appreciate you guys taking the time and inviting me. You're smart dudes. It's nice to talk to smart people, people that are smarter than me. And you both are. So I'll be shielding.

• Speaker #2

  I don't know about that. Yeah. Maybe older. Maybe older, but not, I don't know about smart.

• Speaker #1

  But if people want to reach out to you like at the big baby agency or follow you or something, what's the best way for them to do that? If they want to hook you up? Are you going to class or a course that you do or something?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I have a number of courses. In fact, if you go to stage 22, the word stage, number 22 productions.com. You can see my body of work. You can see books that we do, and you can see the four courses that we teach on filmmaking, on marketing. We have an MBA for business owners, a number of different courses that are useful to people.

• Speaker #2

  Is that movie still up?

• Speaker #0

  The movie's still up. It's up at trustmemovie.org, and that is kind of a look into some of the earlier things that we were talking about Palantir and... the capturing of the United States debt and how we're planning as a country to move into fully digitized currency and the impact that that could have on you.

• Speaker #2

  I was telling Kevin, I wasn't just saying it, Ron, but this was an eye opener. Anybody that I sent this link to, they came back and they just said, wow, this is incredible. So yeah, I would definitely go and check out that movie. But now the most important thing, at the end of every podcast, we ask our misfit If they know a misfit.

• Speaker #0

  I do. I have a good friend. I don't know if you know him or not. You may. J.P. Newman. Do you know J.P.?

• Speaker #2

  No. No, J.C. Newman. J.C.

• Speaker #0

  Newman. Why not J.P. Newman? J.P. Newman is, he's built his wealth with a group of other guys in the real estate space in capturing rentals. And they do a lot of good work in... helping people that are financially strapped. But now that he's kind of in this position, he's brought his career out to really help folks and use his intelligence network to take what they've learned in business and help other folks. And the thing I like about it is it's a discipline that I don't really have a lot of familiarity with, although our Venn diagrams overlap a little bit. And we ski together and vacation together. Part wise is you ever have those friends that are smart in another field and it's just nice to actually spend your free time tinkering with your own brain into the other places with someone who I would say is a master in their space. He's one of those people. And he runs a podcast called The Fulfillionaire, which. The implicit nature there of how do you become fulfilled once you've got money? There's more to life than money and how to be fulfilled along your path. So I think J.P. Newman would be a great person for you guys to talk to.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, that's fantastic. Well, we'll follow up with you on that. And Ron, thank you so much for coming on to the podcast today. You were awesome.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you. You guys have a great day. Appreciate it.

• Speaker #2

  All right. Wow, a couple of nuggets out of that one.

• Speaker #1

  Just, just. I only wrote down one note. How many did you write down? No, I'm just kidding. I'm just kidding. No, that was awesome. Really good stuff from a really good, smart guy. I remember when Ron, he came to one of my events called Market Masters that I do, and I invited him out, and he came and sat on a couple of panels, and I think he came up to me and said, why am I here? I feel like I don't know anything. I was like, no, dude, you're probably the smartest guy in the room. You just don't know anything about this one thing. necessarily, but the value that you added and some of the advice that he gave was life-changing for the people in a couple of the panels that he did. So hopefully those of you listening to this show got some really strong and good advice that maybe will be life-changing for you as well. But Norm, if they want more life-changing information, how do they do that?

• Speaker #2

  Well, for life, let me see. Oh, I got it. They can go over to YouTube, check out our channel. at Marketing Misfits Podcast. Or if you want the three minute or less clips, it's Marketing Misfits Clips. And those are all the nuggets. And I'm sure we'll have a ton of nuggets coming out of this podcast today. We also have our TikTok channel, just Marketing Misfits. And you can always check out our website, marketingmisfits.co.

• Speaker #1

  What if I don't have time to watch an hour of video? What do I do?

• Speaker #2

  That's a very good question, Kevin. One of the things that I would say you might want to do is sign up to our newsletter.

• Speaker #1

  What's that address?

• Speaker #2

  It's, I think... It's misfits.news.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's misfits.news.

• Speaker #2

  So hopefully you're just going to say, yes, sign up.

• Speaker #1

  It's misfits.news. Yeah, it's misfits.news. We just came out with it in March. So hang on when you're listening to this. You get in on the ground floor. But we take the podcast and we actually put it into a written form and we add a little bit of extra information from Norm and I. of cool stuff, even on cigars in there. So check out. It's totally free. It comes out every Wednesday. It's at misfits.news. Other than that, I guess we'll be back again next week with another episode next Tuesday, right, Norm?

• Speaker #2

  That's right. All right, everybody. See you. Thanks for coming out. We'll see you later. Take care. Boop.