- Speaker #0
The benefits of having proper branding and packaging is, you know, you want to build a loyalty and trust. If you don't have that, then, you know, you don't really have a brand. You have to make sure that, you know, you do create that experience for your customers.
- Speaker #1
You're watching Marketing Misfits with Norm Farrar and Kevin King. Hey, Norm, you know what time it is? what time is it it's time for another episode of the marketing misfits podcast are you excited yes i'm excited kevin you told me to be more exciting right okay yeah you're supposed to jump that's the that's your that's your cue to jump up and down and go yay i am jumping i'm so excited have you ever i know what gets you excited is when you go into Well, maybe not anymore because you don't drink anymore. But back in the old days, when you actually did drink, when you would go into a liquor store, they have liquor stores in Canada, right? Or is it government-controlled? Yeah,
- Speaker #2
there's liquor stores. Government-controlled, yeah,
- Speaker #1
liquor stores. When you went into one of these government-controlled liquor stores and you're like, man, I need a good vodka. But you're like, I want to try something different. I don't want to do. I don't want to do Absolute. I don't want to do Tito's. I want to try something different. And you're looking around and you see all these bottles. And one of those bottles is in the shape of a guitar. And you're like, ooh, I wonder what this is. You have no idea how that thing tastes, but it's a glass guitar. And it looks really cool. It's got a little label on the top that says, like, it looked almost like a cigar label around the top and a little band. And you're like, you know what? I think I'm in the mood for this one today. and you buy it, you take it back and... maybe it tastes good maybe it doesn't but why did you buy that why did you buy that actual bottle that looks like a guitar is that the packaging is that the what is that that actually made you stand and stand out and you actually buy that and try some who knows good awful tequila or vodka but you bought it because of the of the way of the starting letter is b brand of the brand but is it the brand or is it the packaging
- Speaker #2
Well, it's a bit of both. The packaging, if I have no...
- Speaker #1
What if you didn't know the vodka? What if you didn't know what this vodka... You never heard of this vodka. It was Tom's Farms vodka. But the bottle was really, really cool.
- Speaker #2
I'd buy it for the bottle.
- Speaker #1
Especially if it was a gift, right? Especially if you were giving it to, like, say, hey... Where are we going? I'm going down the road of how important packaging is and how important branding is.
- Speaker #2
So we've had both, right?
- Speaker #1
i said packaging i said brand so i i got the question right you got you got to get a shot so so you get a scooby snack okay yeah steve simonson would say our buddy steve you get us you get a studio snack and uh you can have an ice cream after the end of this podcast yes now we got someone today that's like an expert when it comes to branding and packaging i mean she used to deal with all the what they call that in london high street what's the what's it called the high street where all the fashion stuff is where all the big stores are. She used to do a high street brands and one of the biggest brands in the world. She did all this stuff and now she does a lot of consulting and she's got some interesting takes. I think we've both had her on our individual podcast at Lunch with Norm and AM PM podcast, but I'm excited because I love talking about this stuff as I know you do too.
- Speaker #2
All right. Well, our guest today is Kitty Lay. Here she comes.
- Speaker #1
hi guys hi just a sec just a sec i gotta do something here yo kitty yes they are yes london yeah exactly yeah so i was backstage i was jumping i was really excited to be on the show with you guys today so thank you so much what's the story with this glass and so norm those of you that are listening norm just put on some shades what's what's the uh What's your story with Cool J's, Norm?
- Speaker #0
So they are from a brand that I created four years ago. And these sunglasses, the brand's called Kit London. I actually don't sell it anymore. But the glass, so you have like limited edition glasses, Norm. And these glasses are sustainable. They're made from recycled steel. They're non-petroleum. So that's plant-based acrylic that's in the glasses. And everything is sustainably sourced. and it's using one of the most sustainable factories in the world to create these sunglasses. And Norm has one pair of them. Woo-hoo!
- Speaker #1
How did you get a pair, Norm? I'm jealous now. I don't have sustainable. Well,
- Speaker #2
somebody left them on the table. I don't have sustainable.
- Speaker #1
Oh, I see. Your KleptoSight came out. Yep, yep. I see what it is. So these are glasses that you manufacture on your own brand, Kitty, or these are something that you're…
- Speaker #0
We manufactured. It was a sustainable clothing brand. So we had jewelry. We had shirts, trousers, apparel. We had a lot of things, a small range. And we got good designers, amazing designers to design it for us. We got Ted Baker factories to make it for us. And actually one of our trousers are made from the leftovers of Prada materials. So we were using a lot of really nice, you know, sustainable fabrics and one of the world class factories in the world. So, yeah, so it was like a small little experiment. But, yeah, it's not my love for fashion. So my business partner, that was his thing. So but, yeah, I had a little experiment. and it might continue at some point, but I designed a lot of the jewelry. We got Silversmith to make all the jewelry as well out in Greece. So it was really fun to do all that. But I got involved with all the packaging, the marketing, and then I got involved with logistics and the warehouse and everything else behind it. And I thought, there's too much. I need to go back to my passion, which is design and packaging and brand. So, yeah, that's why.
- Speaker #2
That happens a lot with entrepreneurs. They have a passion for one thing. And then they go and they try to spread themselves too thin into all these other things that they want to do or want to achieve.
- Speaker #1
Are you talking about me, Norm? Are you talking about me?
- Speaker #2
Okay, let's say Kevin Ping.
- Speaker #1
Is this a little backhands?
- Speaker #2
Yeah,
- Speaker #0
yeah.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, the person will remain nameless. But, no, it happens when all of a sudden then you have to regroup and refocus and say, I got to go back to what I'm passionate about. So it sounds like that's what you did.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it was literally taking a lot of my time with the Kit London brand. But, Kevin, I do have a spare pair of glasses.
- Speaker #1
Oh, thank you. The ones with the wings, right? The cooler ones with the little wings. I get something different than Norm.
- Speaker #0
I'll have them branded with your name on them.
- Speaker #2
They've got to be the same. For our smoking jackets, our fedoras, and the glasses.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, there we go. We'll look like the Blues Brothers the next time we go to the Big Smoke.
- Speaker #2
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
You should have cigars, actually.
- Speaker #1
Well, we did.
- Speaker #2
He keeps making fun of the cigars. I made these really great cigars, and he just keeps making fun of them.
- Speaker #1
So how do you get into it? Were you always like a... When you were a young girl, were you the one that's sitting there drawing in the back of class and coming up with ideas and designs? And were you that artistic, creative person always, or did this evolve over time?
- Speaker #0
Well, I wanted to be a choreographer. I wanted to be a dance choreographer, but my dad said I wasn't very good at it.
- Speaker #1
That's great. That's creative. It's great. That's art.
- Speaker #0
I was also good at art, so I went into graphic design. My sister went into graphics first and she's an amazing graphic designer um but I always collected um packaging bits so like perfume bottle um perfume bottles boxes bags you go shopping with bags and i keep i just collect them like a hoarder and i just loved it and then when i was a little girl that's a little girl well littleish i mean i guess in my teens early teens so i my first job was when i was 15 years old and i was i went to a packaging factory where my mum was doing part-time work. So I was on the conveyor belt. I was getting motion sickness, actually, on these. But I was packing for Estee Lauder Clinic in Aramis. So it was all the makeup brands, and I loved it. And I was putting all the little powders in. I put the brushes in, putting all the boxes together. So everyone has a job. So there's a line of people doing the jobs. One just putting the brushes in. That's all you do for three hours. And then the sweets will come along, and then you have a sweet. But, yeah.
- Speaker #1
Sweets will come on the conveyor belt?
- Speaker #0
They would because you need a bit of sugar and for me for my first job ever I was getting motion sickness a lot of the time and my sister was working with me so she would take a lot of the things that she was I was taking a lot of things off the conveyor belt because I couldn't keep up putting putting the boxes together and putting stickers on the little pencils and stuff but yeah it was it was something I loved and the best thing was the staff shop so with these Clinique lip pencils, lipsticks, makeup, the lotions, they're like 50 pence. one pound and you know that's that's not a lot of money but you know um so it was amazing so i used to i grew up with a lot of um brands makeup brands and stuff um when i was young so um yeah it was amazing so i stuck with it and i just loved designing so um i just thought well that's something i'm quite good at i have a really good eye i do love drawing and i loved creating things in 3d so i was quite tactile with my hands that make um cardboard things um cutouts and make origami kind of things as well with with paper um and i was doing that in university and i used to get quite high grades because i was like that's really good that packaging design you know um so it was just something i fell into i thought i was good at it so i just went into london after i graduated and i've been doing it for the last 25 years or
- Speaker #1
more so yeah what are you most proud of what's what did you design that's like like your most proudest thing that you've designed like
- Speaker #0
a box or package or bottle or whatever what is it that's you're like oh my god this is my this is my my mona lisa yeah i mean i'm a bit of a perfectionist and i've never liked anything i've done everything is great not that i don't like it so i'm always trying to do the next best thing i'm like oh that's that's good but i think i can do better i want to do another project i want to make make that better so i'm always thinking i do do great projects but i don't see any single one that really stands out. I guess... If I think about it, when I was on work experience, I went into a design agency. So I was like 19 years old. I went to the design agency and they actually gave me a job. Oh, I'm just making teas here. I'm just, you know, giving, you know, doing a little running up, doing a run around in this design at London agency. And they said, actually, there's this project we'd like you to work on. I met with the clients and they had these handprints. I have these little handprints of this little girl. um It was their daughter who died from meningitis. And the brief was they're doing a ball, a ball to raise money for meningitis. And it's called Jessica Robin, the Jessica Robin Ball. And I had to create the design for it, the logo. And I thought, what am I going to do? And it's like I was put on a lot of pressure as a 19-year-old, never been into an agency. So I looked at it. I thought, what can I do? OK, all I have is these handprints from this girl that died. And she was like two years old. So I thought, okay, I'm going to use the handprints. So I got an illustrator, I worked with an illustrator, and I said, can you put her face, the silhouette of her face in the handprint? So we created that in a gold foil block. And then I used a really lovely script font for the logo. And that was part of the handprint and the logo underneath. And that was put on the stationery, the brochures, the compliment slips, the packaging and t-shirts. So for me, that's a really lovely project to have been. part of as well. So, you know, it's just using my creativity and what can I do? So, and I didn't have a lot of time to do it either. So I had like two days to come up with something and that was great. And I love working under that pressure as well. So I think that's where I think I love working on things that not sure what to do. And that's, that's where I work best when I don't know what I want to do.
- Speaker #2
You've ended up working for some huge brands. Do you want to explain who they are or tell us who they are?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, so a year into working for a London agency, this job came up for Ted Baker. So the Ted Baker brand is a retail brand. Back then, it was just 1999. It was still quite a laddish brand, actually. So this is quite interesting because Ted Baker evolved. Their brand evolved quite a lot over the years I was there. I was there for 10 years. So it was a very laddish brand. So it was very male-orientated. And then they launched a FEMA. the female Ted Baker woman, they called it, Ted Baker woman. And then they were trying to make it a ladette kind of, you know, this is, we're talking about late 90s, going into, you know, the 2000s. And it wasn't the right message that women wanted to hear. I mean, that Spice Girls are around and everything. But, you know, there was a lot of things wrong with the brand because they had the kids, so it's Ted Baker kids. And then they had glasses, Ted Baker sunglasses. And they were calling Ted Baker a lot of things. And it was so many brands. And I was creating invites for the wholesalers. So I put all these about 10 different logos for sunglasses for kids, for women. And, you know, I said, well, we need to bring it back down to just Ted Baker London. And that's, you know, after a few years of that, you know, having a bit of a crisis, a branding crisis, they decided, actually, let's just hone it back. It's just Ted Baker London. That's all we're going to do. So that's where it evolved. And then the women's wear evolved nicely. You know, it really, really sort of pitched to. the target audience because they were actually not appealing to the target audience they wanted originally so it's really important to understand the target audience because at the time it's like we're just doing women's we're just going to do perfume we're going to do this and it's a brand that just exploded it went from when i was there from 50 employees in head office to about 250 by the time i left and it was still growing by the time i left it you know um it would have been like 500 plus thousand employees in head office so it's a brand that evolved and something I've been involved with opening stores globally as well. So it was understanding the markets in America, opening in Asia, Australia, in Europe, and it was working with those teams as well. So I'd work with the marketing teams in all those different territories and making sure that our tone and language fit the culture as well, because some things didn't fit. And so yeah, so Ted Baker was quite extraordinary because I was dealing with the packaging, the marketing, the window campaigns. You know, there's a lot of things involved with anything with the Ted Baker name on it during that period would have to come through me. Every zip pull, every button would come through me. I had to sign it off thinking because I know things that aren't consistent. So I would make sure the team I was managing that if anything comes through from a supplier you have to check the logo is correct the font is correct because they do come out different and you know that we were very strict so as brand guard brand guardians we made sure that you know everything would come through our department i would sign it off and that was quite a sort of um important role so you know for me i i loved it and i loved employing the the young designers i would always employ someone that was better than me so i would make sure you know i'm a good designer but i want someone better than me you know um so yeah that was really good. By the time I left, I had 10 designers under me. And then I worked uh freelanced i was made redundant actually and then i freelanced for a while so i was working with um tk max so in america you know it's tjx tj max yeah um so i was brought in to work on their um experience the store experience so when you walk through the store what was the experience you'll get with signage the the point of sale and i was creating an environment for them so i came up loads of different concepts and then worked on other projects. Christmas campaigns in store as well. So it's like swing tickets, all their sort of banners they will have in store. And then after a while, I was headhunted to work for Cath Kidston, which was another major brand in the UK. It's not renowned globally, but it's very British. She did have a store in New York. And Japan loves the brand. It's a lot of polka dots, a lot of florals, very English florals everywhere. And you might have seen it um, on the high streets. But I rebranded everything for CAF Kidston. Day one was going into the warehouse. I wanted to see what was wrong in the warehouse. So I went for every swing ticket, every label, everything. I took photos of everything with my junior designer. And it was inconsistent. So I was like, no, we can't have this. It was CAF Kidston Limited, London. CAF Kidston, London. CAF Kids. you know it was was not consistent again so that's what drives me crazy with a brand that's not consistent so then you know I worked with Kath and we recreated her branding so the store the store branding I redrew actually her logo because um the original logo that she had she actually hand drew on her on the kitchen table and um it wasn't it was a bit jaggedy because she had hand-drawn it. it was quite funny because that year I went to a show in London and someone had brought up as a keynote on a presentation calling out saying this logo is like really badly drawn and stuff like that you know we'd we'd drawn it and stuff and I worked on all the packaging because they they wanted they needed someone for the packaging design side of things so I got to work with Apple actually I've got meetings with Apple working with the cap kids and range we had iPhone covers, we had iPad covers and laptop cases and stuff. So I would design packaging that would have to fit in an Apple store. So they were quite strict in terms of their requirements. So I would have to design it and follow their guidelines. They are very specific and we have to use all their logos and everything, their tonality in there. And then that would be approved by the team before it goes on to the shop floor. They have to know the materials. They need to know what it will look like. So I had to visualize things. computer generate everything you know i'd visualize things this is how it's going to look with the the covers and the the phone covers so yeah there was a lot of things so i i was there for six years and then i lost the love i lost the love for design um yes um because i was working spring summer autumn winter spring summer autumn winter i working on so many campaigns and it was by then it was about 16 years in and i had a little boy as well actually i want to do something else Um, And I didn't know what I wanted to do. I was made redundant, actually, again, which I always see as a good thing. It's a new challenge. And so then someone mentioned that I should go on an FBA Amazon course. Oh, OK, that's interesting. So I did this masterclass a whole weekend to learn how to negotiate suppliers. I know that from my job already. I know how to ship inside. I know the marketing. I know how to create. So I knew everything. So I loved it. And the whole weekend I had my hand up asking questions. I came to that masterclass with loads of questions. Day three, I lost my voice. I couldn't ask anything more.
- Speaker #2
Was that when I met you in London?
- Speaker #0
It was around that time, yes. Yeah, it was.
- Speaker #2
I remember meeting you. I was doing a workshop with Wilford Lightheart, and you introduced yourself.
- Speaker #0
I did, yeah. That was literally six months or just during that time, and I met Kevin King around that time as well. I went to one of his masterclasses. Yeah, my eyes just lit up because I thought, oh, great. I can learn how to build a business and a brand and start from scratch. because that's something I've never wanted to do. I've never wanted to be a director, never wanted to own a business because the thought of it was just too scary. And it is quite overwhelming as you're working in the corporate world and now you're coming out on your own. But the course taught you how to do that. And it wasn't so scary at the end of it. And six months in, when I joined their mastermind, six months in, they made me a mentor. So I was on the round tables mentoring people about branding and packaging and stuff. because all I would do every month, I would go in and just help everyone with their branding. So they said, we'll make you a mentor. So I did that for three years. And then I quit during COVID, actually. So yeah. So that's my journey, the starting. So I do understand the Amazon journey because I did start as a seller as well. I'm not very good at it.
- Speaker #1
Are you selling now? Or are you just focusing on the packaging, branding side of things?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I'm focused on the branding side of things. The brand I set up for the Amazon was literally, you know, they sell it to you and make money while you sleep. You know, I wanted something on the side. It wasn't like a, you know, a full-time job for me, but it ended up like a full-time job. But I'm not good at optimization. I'm not good at PPC. I don't like the backend. So I thought, well, I just like the front end side of things. Yeah. So, yeah. So that, you know, I sold. my products and you know i didn't just i didn't like um uh put any more inventory into the business it's a great product it's great really lovely designed um yeah with uh e-commerce sellers so amazon walmart uh shopify
- Speaker #2
sellers there's a lot of people who just throw something up or they don't put a lot of time into the uh brand or the packaging can you explain why That's got to change. That mindset has got to change. And what are some of the benefits that will come out of it if it does change?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I mean, I think that's the thing. Yeah, the mindset has to change because it's not, you know, you're running a business. You're running a real brand and you need to see the growth of it. You need to have a business plan in place. And, you know, the benefits of having proper branding and packaging is, you know, you want to build a loyalty and trust. If you don't have that... then you know you don't really have a brand and it's you know it's it's the experience that you get from it because i you know i remember when i was young and when we were all young or or even now um when you see something and you know especially i'm just talking about when i was young but people would have these trainers for example and it's like well i want those because they've got them and you don't know why you want them you just think it's cool because they look Cool. And then you have... you want them as well so it's creating that brand why do you want it actually you don't know why you want it um you know it's cool because the name's cool um but until you get that and then you know the trainers i'll have and it's like well actually it's the feeling now is actually i do feel really good in these i paid a little bit more money for this particular brand they look good and people are looking at me now and that you know that they want them but it's it's all about that experience that you get from a brand and i think you know for amazon sellers if you don't have that excitement that buzz or that people that want your product, you know, you know, you're not building a proper brand and it, you know, you have to make sure that, you know, you do create that experience for, for your customers.
- Speaker #2
Now, a quick word from our sponsor, LaVonta. Hey, Kevin, tell us a little bit about it.
- Speaker #1
That's right. Amazon sellers. Do you want to skyrocket your sales and boost your organic rankings? Meet LaVonta. Norm and I's secret weapon for driving high-quality external traffic straight to our Amazon storefronts using affiliate marketing. That's right. It's achieved through direct partnerships with leading media outlets like CNN, Wirecutter, and BuzzFeed, just to name a few, as well as top affiliates, influencers, bloggers, and media buyers, all in Levante's marketplace, which is home to over 5,000 different creators that you get to choose from.
- Speaker #2
So are you ready to elevate your business? Visit get.lavanta.io slash misfits. That's get.lavanta, L-E-V-A-N-T-A dot I-O slash misfits. And book a call and you'll get up to 20% off Lavanta's gold plan today. That's get.lavanta.io slash misfits.
- Speaker #1
Is it that, isn't it about a feeling? Isn't branding about a feeling? Whether that's I'm buying a Louis Vuitton purse because that's a feeling it gives me or a status symbol or that I've made it or some sort of satisfaction there. Or if I'm buying a hammer and it comes in a, you know, it's a basic commodity and it just comes in a really cool looking like iPad looking box and, you know, I got to open it all up. And all that does is just confirms to me like, oh, yeah, this must be a cool hammer, even though I may throw the box away. And it had no impact on me buying because I bought it on Amazon and I didn't even see the package. But it comes then. It's like it's a justification. It's like a feeling. So isn't branding and packaging transcending that feeling?
- Speaker #0
Yeah. So I was thinking, well, we'll come back to that question. But I was thinking when you were talking about the guitar and the vodka and that, the feeling. It's well, it's the the drinking, the feeling I get from the vodka. It makes you feel good. It would. And it might necessarily not taste very good. But I think it is the feeling because you feel good now you drank the vodka. But answering your question, Kevin, I think definitely it is for some people. It's about the perceived. Well, the perception people get from you. If you've got a nice handbag, if you've got a luxury handbag, people think, oh, wow, you know, that looks really cool. And I think it's, I think it's. a lot of times it is the feeling because you feel good because you've got this handbag and if some people buy a fake handbag you don't get that same feeling you don't feel so special because you know you got it cheap and stuff it's a completely different feeling but I think when it comes to the the actual packaging and the the textures and things you can create emotions from just packaging itself sometimes for me it's about the smell oh this print tape this this this print smells nice this box smells lovely or the texture of this this um this paper or this material is different it's like a really soft touch or the texture well the ripples on it and and i think i think people under underestimate how important it is with the packaging or the sense sensory side of things that you get from just opening a box just seeing it um i think it's really you know people do need to think about much more about what they're doing rather than just oh one because you can put a box I'm going to make it look pretty. I'll design it well. But, you know, is it going to give off that feeling, you know, in terms of, you know, like the unboxing experience? Will the customer feel special? Are they going to feel like, oh, actually, I need to tell my neighbor. I really need to tell someone that this box I've just opened is amazing. So, yeah, it's absolutely about evoking those emotions when it comes to packaging.
- Speaker #2
You were just talking about the feel of a package. and it's It's so critical because even if you take a matte packaging or a gloss packaging or a mixture of the two, it gives you a completely different experience. And I want you to get into that a little bit more for us.
- Speaker #0
Okay. Yeah. So when it comes to creating some feeling and emotions in packaging, I think, I mean, for me, I'm a very tactile person. And I think... People don't understand like how sensory emotions and things will work with packaging as well because it does evoke the emotions firstly but it also your eyes will feast on packaging as well but tactile stuff is really important when you look at things that are a foil block that creates a really premium feeling for people on packaging on for brands as well and but there's also other ways like if you use matte laminates, that can create an alternative type of finish as well, rather than gloss finish or the satin finishes as well. And there's lots of things that people don't realize how subtle it is. I know Apple packaging, they use the matte laminates. And that, you know, it just feels special. It feels premium. And I think... People really do love to receive something special. And if it's just a standard box, it doesn't feel anything unique. So whether it's you've got hidden messages inside the box as well, and that creates an alternative feeling as well, that feeling of surprise. And I think, you know, it really sets the mood in terms of, you know, what you're going to do with the product and receiving that as well. So I think it's really important to understand the tone of how you can create, sorry, how you can create a tone with packaging as well. So, yeah. I think it's definitely the first touch point that you need to think about when a customer receives the product.
- Speaker #1
I think that goes right back to what Kevin was just talking about in Japan, that special feeling when everything is just wrapped in front of you and you feel special. And that's if you get a high quality, high perceived value product and it's got that extra little bit, that touch, that welcome message on the inside, the unveiling of the product. Well, it's a whole different experience, which I look for. I love that type of experience.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, and if people have the budget, they can create clever mechanisms, like different openings and the way you peel it open, or even how the product actually sits in the box. Maybe it makes a sound when it comes out, or a tab that you have to pull to get it out. And it's all those little things that really create that specialness in packaging. And I know it doesn't relate to all products, but if you if you're trying to create that emotion and create that sort of surprise element for your for your customers I think you need to think about it much more because it will do more than you actually think and I know it will only be a small budget but you know I think it will create a lot of attention for your customers they might tell their neighbors and they'll think oh gosh I really like this packaging and often people don't throw the packaging away because it's special and it's like oh I really like this and you know I think it's really important to think about you know what what the customer are going.
- Speaker #2
customers are going through so yeah can you go overboard on that though because um when i got married uh we actually went over our our invitation was not just uh here's a printed card in the mail like most people do um we actually spent about 40 per invitation to actually send them out and we actually had a custom box made with a custom branded logo on top like our own emblem like our own logo with our letters intertwined with each other in a circle And we consistently carried that through the entire wedding. It was the logo on the dance floor. It was the logo on the pillows. It was the logo on everything at the wedding. But in this package, it was a big box, like a rectangular box. And it was black, and it had gold lettering and stuff on it. And when you would open it, inside was a shot glass with our logo on it. Also, the invitation was a scroll with a little tie around it, like all round up. And you had to scroll it out and read it. And there was a candle in there. And then we put scent. so that had the scent uh it's like one of those like love scent i forget what that was but when you open it it just feels like like love and we had a lot of people love that uh and then other people are like it almost made them feel not worthy they're like this is such an expensive like package i can't afford to go to this wedding so can you take back can can packaging go too far as well
- Speaker #0
It can go too far, but I don't think it's the experience that you're trying to give to your guests as well. And it also makes you good as well, because that's what you really wanted. And that's what you've created for your wedding. And I think it's you're so excited about creating this thing that you want your guests to have it. And I think they should be grateful to her. Obviously, they are grateful to receive such a gorgeous gift. I mean, it sounds amazing. But, yeah, you can. You know, I don't think it's anything over the top, but as long as you think it's true to your brand. If that's true to you and your wife at the time, you know, that was what's worth, you know, I think it's amazing that you created that brand for yourself. It's got the logos, it's got that scent and stuff. And that's you, that's your character, that's your personality that you've created for this brand. So I think the people will take it away and think, and they will always remember it. And that's branding, it's when you remember something. It's like, I remember those candles and that, you know, all these things that came, the scroll. And I think that's amazing because you are sort of giving an experience to your guests as well. And I think I love that sort of thing. I handmade all my wedding invites. I put gems and stuff and bows. And, yeah, I loved it all. So, yeah, so that kind of thing is creating an experience and a memorable experience for people. So I think it's important.
- Speaker #2
That's the key. You just said it. That's what I was trying to is experience. So is branding, part of branding, and experience.
- Speaker #0
And memorable.
- Speaker #2
Memorable and experience. So if A lot of people, like back to Norm's question earlier, where he said a lot of these e-com and Amazon sellers don't pay attention to packaging. Part of their rationale is it doesn't matter. They're not buying it off a shelf. I don't have to compete against all these other things on a shelf in a retail store. And they're just getting it off online. All they care about is, does the thing work and solve my problem? They don't care if it's in a brown, cheap box that stinks, that came from China, that looks like it's recycled and about to fall apart. They're like, well, they care. But they actually do. That actually is important. And a lot of times they're just like, well, that cost me 35 cents to put it in that box. versus if I put it in a nice iPad type of box. I... it's going to cost me four bucks. Why should I, why should I do that expense? So why should I?
- Speaker #1
Sometimes it's not even that Kevin, sometimes it's just a couple of extra dollar, a couple extra cents, not three or four dollars more. And one of the things I just want to point out here, Kevin also touched on another thing. He knew when it was time to rebrand. So now when you go to his house, instead of having the logo of him and his wife, he's got a big frigging X going through. And he sent that out to everybody he invited.
- Speaker #2
Yeah, yeah. I have rebranded. That is true. So why did, speaking of that, I mean, that's a good point. Why should someone rebrand? Why does Coca-Cola try to rebrand and then fails with New Coke? Why does... Apple, Burger King slightly changes their logo from a burger inside Burger King to more of a straight thing. Sometimes I know rebranding is because there's a problem and they need to change an image. But why do a lot of brands rebrand? Why rebrand? I mean, you touched on it earlier with the company, but why rebrand?
- Speaker #0
I think a lot of companies that... get it wrong in the first place, you have to rebrand. It's usually because it's outdated, slightly outdated, or something's not right. It's not appealing to the target audience. And also, people rebrand because they want to change the target audience. It's not right for the brand, and they're going to start looking at a completely different customer avatar they want to sort of pitch to. But if you look at all the classic brands, for example, Coca-Cola and, I guess Sony and all the other brands that you know, the big brands. They don't actually do too much to rebrand. They tweak it.
- Speaker #2
What about Jaguar? What about Jaguar? Where they just came out and they came out, they completely rebranded their logo, their car colors, everything. It's like a radical. And it actually pissed off a lot of people. Or you look at here in the States, you look at Budweiser. I think it was Bud Light.
- Speaker #1
Budweiser.
- Speaker #2
When everything was wokeness was the hot thing, they rebranded to wokeness and completely isolated their core group of country.
- Speaker #0
country boys uh you know they're sitting in the bar uh with a cowboy hat drinking the stuff yeah they went from the number one seller to number four now and they can't they can't get it back so i think what what they you know a lot of brands that do that they think oh we someone at the top thinks oh we've got to make a change we've they think they think that their brand is like old-fashioned or they just need to change something and they go way to to one extreme. For example, Jaguar, they literally isolated all the other the the the usual customers and they're pitching to someone completely new and i think they're going to have to move back to the old brand because it was working there was nothing wrong with it it's just the product it's it's it's it's coming up with new product not new branding and i think sometimes that's where brands and companies get confused it's like oh we need to rebrand because no one's buying but maybe it's the product maybe that's what's wrong with it what is the experience that the customer are getting maybe that's the problem maybe it's the packaging you You know, maybe it's the message. And it's like, it's the marketing sometimes. Marketing can get it really wrong sometimes, and that could really affect the whole brand. But it doesn't mean you have to rebrand. I mean, a lot of people that have come to me, I just say, you just need a refresh. You just need to tweak through things and you don't need to rebrand because rebrand means the whole thing. You're looking at the whole identity. You're looking at your target audience. If you don't need to change it, don't do anything. There are things to sort of to do to a brand that you don't have to go to one extreme and say rebrand so i always say refresh just a little refresh tweak it slightly um because you know i think you just look at you you just have to look at what is wrong with um maybe possibly the product and i guess you have to sit down and be honest about yourself is it time to rebrand you know is it looking quite tired and at the time i designed it to look to be trend driven so then that means it's out of fashion and it's not. in on trend anymore. So there's a lot of ways where, you know, companies can look at what they need to do. And I think they need to start with a brand audit and then see what actually is going wrong with the brand.
- Speaker #1
Are you looking to quickly boost new Amazon product launches or scale up existing listings to reach first page positioning? The influencer platform Stack Influence can help.
- Speaker #2
That's right. Stack Influence pushes high volume external traffic sales straight to Amazon listings using micro influencers that you only have to pay with your products.
- Speaker #1
They've helped up and coming brands like Magic Spoon compete with Cheerios for top category positioning. while also helping Fortune 500 brands like Unilever launch their new products.
- Speaker #2
Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence. You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description or notes below and mention Misfits, that's M-I-S-F-I-T-S, to get 10% off your first campaign. Stackinfluence.com
- Speaker #1
You can see this when somebody does a really good job of that. A lot of the times you don't even notice it. And I'll give you an example. Olive Garden. We don't have them up here, but I was in the States. I hadn't seen an Olive Garden for a while. Actually, I think I was with you, Kevin, and we were driving past one. And it was a subtle change. And it was, wow, they did a great job with that. They just changed it to the times.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Amazing. I mean, I just thought of something. I had someone refer to me, a wild whack, and they said, I need to rebrand. And I said, well, show me what you've got. What is it? And it was like a bread, keeping bread fresh in a bag sort of thing. And so he sent me all the graphics and all the visuals and things. And I said, and I looked at the listing. I looked at the branding. There's nothing wrong with it. I said, you know, because I really need to rebrand. And I looked at it. No, you don't. I think it's really well designed. I can see a proper designer's designed it. The colours work well. You might need to just tweak a few things here and there, but there was nothing I could do. I said, well, this is what you need to do. I can't really help you because there's nothing wrong with it. And so he went away thinking, well, that's refreshing. She's just turned away business. But I thought, well, you don't need to do it. You don't need to rebrand. And I think that's where people do need to maybe consult with people. consult with branding experts and see what is wrong with your brand. If I see something wrong, I will tell you, but there was nothing wrong with that one. And I could easily say, yeah, I can redesign it for you and, you know, take on the business, but that's not what I'm about, you know, so I, you know, I believe in, you know, integrity and honesty. So, you know, I think they'll do well anyway with their business. So brands don't always have to rebrand. So yeah.
- Speaker #2
So if Norm wants, let's pretend Norm doesn't know anything about marketing. And he decides he's a big cigar smoker and he wants to launch his own line of cigars. And he comes to you. He hears this lady Kitty is really good at branding and packaging. And he calls you up and says, hey, Kitty, I'm launching a line of Norm cigars. Help me. I don't know what to do. What are you going to ask him? What do you need from him? What are the fundamental things that you need so that you can start actually designing a brand and packaging for Norm? And you don't know. Nothing, but he just wants to do cigars. What would you ask him? What would the interview, just walk me down a few of the things that you would ask him. Have your smoke in.
- Speaker #0
I don't know anything about cigars.
- Speaker #2
That's why I'm bringing this up. That's a perfect example.
- Speaker #0
I did go to the cigar factory in Miami. So I did have a little bit of breath. I was in awe with the packaging, actually. I love the labels. I love the boxes. So I would ask... How many cigars are you packaging? Are you selling them as singles? Are you selling them in a pack? Is it going to be in a box? Who is your target audience? What range are you selling your cigars? Is it the lower range or is it premium end? Because then we're looking at really nicely designed box with a nice little clasp on possibly. But I would ask them, what's your budget? How many SKUs are there? Are there a different range of cigars? I guess you get the... have i been paying attention short ones thin ones bigger ones aged one aged ones mature ones um so yeah it's you know and and i would i generally send out a brand questionnaire actually to clients to to understand who is your target audience um what is your vision uh what is the mission of of of this whole brand what is it all about does it have a story behind it um what are you um and I actually have this personality a brand personality slider so it's this is it's set up with different things are you a classic brand or are you a rebel brand are you a contemporary brand are you are you funny brand are you quite are you loud or quiet are you rebel are you there's loads of things that you know they on the slider from one end to the other it's opposites and they will put an X on where it where they think their brand is and that's really helpful when I create the brand So, you know, I do ask for inspiration. Who do you think are your top three competitors? Then I can see, actually, you want to be in competition or better than these people. And I know that kind of market. Then I can see what kind of market you're appealing to as well, because not often the client might not know. So, you know, so I would ask them that. But you know your cigar. So and then, yeah, then I would go away and. dissect that and if you're after brand identity and the whole thing like the mission the tone of voice i will dissect that for you i create the color palettes i will look at the fonts um i will make i will create a vision a vision a mission a tagline if you need one and create the whole logo behind that and put it into a brand guideline document so then you have everything um but i present um all my findings first my research my initial presentation before i put put everything into brand guideline because he needs to work. with what you're after. And then, you know, I'd go away and design packaging as well. So I'd come up with so many different ideas, things that I think would work. I would look at budget as well. So I would look at budget packaging. So if Norm's going to design something, he just wants card, I'm going to look at some card options and create something really beautiful. Then I'm going to look at mid-range. Maybe he wants a little bit more. Maybe he wants it bespoke shape. It might have a die cut or something in there. then I might look at the premium end so i'm going to look at nice wood cast cases with you know um maybe some embossing on the actual or branding on the actual box so there's loads of different avenues i go down and it's it's really understanding what the client's after and then i just present it and they say they love it and norm says i'm going to create another range for you so cms cms cigars yes yeah
- Speaker #2
how does Say I play, or does it play in any aspect in what you do?
- Speaker #0
Sorry,
- Speaker #2
what was that? How does AI play any aspect in what you do in this whole process?
- Speaker #0
Recently, I've been trying out AI, actually, and I am not worried about it taking over my job, actually. I use it to create content, actually, mainly, and some ideas for different contents. I have asked it to try design certain things or come up with some color palettes, and I've been testing it, but it doesn't do what I want. it to do i have to prompt and prompt and prompt but only because i know what i'm after so ai doesn't know even though i've told them so i've tested it with a some brands um that i've had brand questionnaires i will dissect it and say and prompt it exactly how i want it can you create the give me some the color palette for it um can you look at the fonts as well can you design me a logo and see what they come up with and it's just it doesn't work um it's something i've seen maybe on Canva or something. AI will pick up things that they've seen around on wherever it's seen it. But I don't think it designs very well. So I will look at it and think, no, and I've been trying it with color palettes. It just doesn't get the color palettes right. And I, yeah, so I don't think AI is quite there when it's creating a whole brand for me anyway, because I'm quite particular as well. And I just, I think let's use it as a tool, see what it comes up with. but no it's not it's not doing what i want maybe some things some colors might be right some fonts might be nice actually i've not heard of that font so i will have to have a look at that but um you know i do know my font so i you know i have a whole sort of i have whole folders of different types of font and they're all categorized in sans serif they're decorative they're script they're handwritten or they're hand script and you know i have a whole library of things but when it comes to ai i think use it as a pinch of salt i mean for me as a designer anyway it can design but not that well, especially charts, things aren't aligned, things are, the formatting is not quite right. So I would fire AI if it was on my team.
- Speaker #1
I had a, just recently I had one of our friends just give me a second opinion on a listing that I was looking at and why it wasn't selling, why the conversion was so low. And it had almost 1500 reviews. There were 4.8 very good 4.8 1500 reviews and it was just like i can't see i can't exactly see what's going on here so i called this person up and i said hey can you review the images with me and tell me why this is converting low and they came back and i needed this second opinion it said you're marketing to two audiences. I said, you're consistent. They said, your consistency is off. They don't know if it's for this market or for this market. And I went, holy crap, that's right. So I hate to say this because it's said too often, but you got to know your audience who you're marketing to before you even can start thinking about the brand and the colors and the fonts and all of that. But yeah, as soon as that was picked out, it was like. It's so simple, you know, where it's, is it professional or is it consumer? Yeah. And it was consumer based.
- Speaker #0
Ah, yeah, absolutely. I mean, I, I, I go a deep dive into the demographics, their behaviors, the needs, the preferences that what their communication channels are and everything to do with the target audience. You have to go deep dive into creating that, that target audience, because it's not just the top line. How old are they? Where do they live? And, you know. It's not that. You've got to see what their psychographics are, you know, with the audience.
- Speaker #2
So how do you do this with, to Norm's point, we had someone on the podcast about a month ago, Mary Harcourt, and she invented this light, this like arched light that actually, she was an eyelash technician. You know, eyelashes are very fine and kind of hard to see. And all the lighting, it was difficult to actually really see all the little fine lashes. so she didn't get this light that would arch over and will create massive really good even lighting across so you could see it she put this product out and it was to to eyelash people and to people in salons and stuff and she noticed started noticing a lot of tattoo people start buying this product which is a complete uh you know tattoo artist because they need the same thing they need to be able to see all the little fine lines and so she she's like okay so what she did is what every good marketer should do is to solve Norm's issue is she creates two separate landing pages one landing page is geared towards the tattoo people one landing page is geared towards the the beauticians uh and stuff and which is fine and i think she even gave the product you know it's exact same product but she changed the box a little bit and one's the x27 for tattoo dollars and one's the i'm making this up but the x10 for uh nail technicians yeah but it's still the same brand name, still the same branding. How do you come? to Norm's point where you got two different audiences buying this. How do you, from a branding and packaging point of view, what she did is great, but how do you marry those together so you don't sway it too much the other way? And you actually marry those two together into one cohesive unit. So it's still the same brand across multiple.
- Speaker #1
Two audiences. Yeah.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. Oh,
- Speaker #0
my goodness. Yeah, that is quite tricky. And they're on the same website as well, right?
- Speaker #2
Yeah, same website, but different landing page.
- Speaker #0
Different landing pages. Yeah, I mean, I think at the end of the day, it's the brand as well. But it's tricky when you are pitching to two different audiences because then it might affect the language and the message that you're trying to when you're talking to the customer because talking to a tattoo artist is different to talking to the beauty people.
- Speaker #2
But you can accomplish that on a landing page. Yeah. You can accomplish it with different wording, and you can change out the packaging a little bit. to talk to each audience but the overall brand name the overall logo is still the same so how do you marry those two i think at the end of that is it that is like the brand the brand house so it's the umbrella of the of the other is
- Speaker #0
the same product but i think that shouldn't change anything too much i mean the brand itself i know it's pitching to two different audience but then there are brands that i have to use ted baker for example they have the kids and they have the the women's range as well and it's still it's still ted baker so you're buying into that top brand you're not and then the products you can sort of fill in you know talking to different audiences because there will be different tones of voices anyway but overall it's the main brand at the um at the top so i think it's i guess it's it's really sort of creating that messaging i think it's that top line messaging that you need to get across to two and i think it's the personality of the brand and that's what
- Speaker #2
will filter down to those two other um different landing pages it is it is about the top the top umbrella brand so so maybe in her case i'm just i'm just hypothetically here in her case the brand the top level brand um should not be tailored to either one of those markets it should be more maybe about the technology it's some sort of lighting technology and it's like we're the greatest latest coolest technology for lighting and then you and then you brand down or you branch down and then you split those off, just like you said with Ted Baker kids, Ted Baker women, Ted Baker men. So the top level brand has a connotation and an identity to it, but the identity is not necessarily to that avatar. It's one level up. or something along that line.
- Speaker #0
I think, yeah, I mean, I would agree with you. I mean, you articulated that better than I did. So, yes.
- Speaker #1
I've even seen it, and I'm not sure if Mary's doing this, but where you have a Shopify store and you have your catalog, and then within the catalog you can see tattoo or eyelash, and they have the services laid out, and then they press on whatever one, and it'll go over to that page. Or you could just drive traffic over to another subdomain on that domain.
- Speaker #2
I did this on Amazon, just real quick, Norm. I did this on Amazon when I was selling fitness products. My brand name was U Active Sports, Y-O-U Active Sports. And so everything was going to be like for active sports. Everything I did under that was active sports. Then every single product I put out, I also gave it a brand name. I gave the product an actual brand name. So it was the Abwell. I had an ab roller. So it was the Abwell Core Shredder was the name of the product. It wasn't just like, here's my ab roller under U Active Sports, the U Active Sports ab roller. It wasn't that. It was U Active Sports top level and then brands underneath it. And then if I came out with another, I came out with a second ab roller for women, which is easier for women on their backs. And it was called the Abwell Dragon. And so each one had its own unique branding and name. That's a way to actually accomplish that too.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. So that's like a house of brands. So, you know, you've got the branded house and then you've got the house brand. So, you know, that's another way of doing it. But, you know, you could easily get up to the branded house and then give them hero product names rather than rebranding, giving a brand name to every single one. But unless that product is very different. But, yeah.
- Speaker #2
What's up, everybody? Your good old buddies Norm and Kevin here. And I've got an Amazon creative team that I want to introduce you to.
- Speaker #1
That's right, Kevin. It's called the House of AMZ, and it's the leading provider in combining marketing and branding with laser focus on Amazon.
- Speaker #2
Hey, Norm, they do a lot of really cool stuff if you haven't seen what they do, like full listing graphics, premium A-plus content, storefront design, branding, photography, renderings, packaging design, and a whole lot of other stuff that Amazon sellers need.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, and guess what? They have nine years active in this space. So you can skip the guesswork, trust the experts. There's no fees. There's no retainers. You pay per project.
- Speaker #2
So if you want to take your product to the next level, check out House of AMZ. That's houseofamz.com. House of AMZ.
- Speaker #1
We're kind of doing that with dragonfish, Kevin.
- Speaker #2
A little bit, yeah. A little bit of dragonfish. Just a touch. Just a touch.
- Speaker #1
It's a little selfish. Plug. So I was kind of curious about the mistakes. So what are the major mistakes brands are making right now?
- Speaker #0
I think the main mistakes is clarity. They're not very clear with their message. So I think it's really important to know what you're saying to the customer and actually being consistent. Because a lot of brands will have their listing up on Amazon and they'll have one look and feel for the brand. but then you go onto their Shopify site and it's completely different or you go onto their social media and that's completely different and there's no consistency and some brands use... different logos for different things and it's like well why have you got five different logos there's no consistency and the tone of voices completely um it's not clear you know am i speaking to the right audience you know because i you know the customers will get confused and i think um i think that's what where brands get it wrong is is creating confusion for their customers they're not clear they're not actually targeting people properly in the way they talk and how they message what they're selling same question for packaging For packaging, I guess it's, I think what people get wrong is that they cram everything on the packaging. They think, oh, more is great. Let's put the logo here and let's just put the product name there and put some more colors. And I think it's quite noisy. People get lost in noise. And if you're not clear about your message, you're creating some hierarchy. on the packaging. So for instance, having your logo clear, and then the product name, and then what it does on the packaging, it will confuse the customer. They'll just think, oh, I don't really understand what it does, because it's about clarity again, and creating that hierarchy and making sure that the packaging does sell as well, do some of the selling. I know people buy from the products off Amazon, and they'll just look at the image as well. But it's really understanding also that how to use it. how to use the product and being able to resonate with the product and how you use it. Because I think a lot of brand owners don't have that in the listings. They don't have a human using the product. They don't have a human showing the size of the product that actually fits your hand. It doesn't, you know, it's not that big. And, you know, I think a lot of things, there are mistakes that brand owners make. So when it comes to packaging, I think it's the noise, make it less noisy. And then, yeah,
- Speaker #1
I think packaging also plays a role in people selecting people when when people buy gifts especially the packaging is a statement of the gift as well so a lot of times people will choose a nicer packaging over something else if it's intended
- Speaker #0
as a gift yeah i mean i do all the time i i love the packaging you know so when i go out shopping and i buy i mean i buy off amazon a lot and when the packaging is not great i get really disappointed it's like oh um but yeah it's it's trying to create that sort of um feeling of excitement and you know it's it's making sure you know that people can actually open the box as well and making it practical so it's not just the box and i know it's also depending on the type of product you sell but the packaging does really matter because when you get it even though it comes in an amazon box you open it up you still have to open the box itself or the packaging of some sort for the product but it has to create that excitement and i think people need to sort of think a little bit more about it and how can they create that memorable experience as well for the customer because you know i i know not all products are exciting but you can still put a bit more thought to how you message it even if it is a brown a brown box have
- Speaker #1
you been to japan have you been to japan i have yes so have you bought stuff in japan in a store not not food stuff but actual items have you always noticed how everything is wrapped Yeah. It's not just like, let me stick this in the bag and carry it out. They actually take it. They take wrapping paper like they're giving a gift or some sort of, and they actually wrap it up and put a bow on it to give it to you. And it's like Tiff's Treats, Norm. When you're in Austin, you go into Tiff's Treats. These are cookies that Norm likes that I get when he comes to visit. And they're like $2 a piece for these, but they're really good cookies. but you go in there, they don't just stick them in one of these like plastic sleeves or something or a little... baker's box they put them in a nice little box has a little sticker on top says tix streets and then they they tie a bow on top of it like a red a blue ribbon bow it's like in branding and a lot of times when i go in there i'm like just don't worry about the bow because that's something i just got to untie to get my cookie out one in the car on the way home but they do that for packaging they do that in japan too uh and it's always fascinating to me how much that actually And this is something I'm buying for myself. I'm not giving this as a gift to somebody. And they do that. And that's, like you said, the experience.
- Speaker #0
It's that extra value people think they're getting as well.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, it reconfirms that you made a good choice.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. It makes you feel special when people do do that. You know, it just, it didn't take that much time. You don't pay for it. And it's, it feels like you're going to open it all over again, even though it's just the cookie inside the boat, but it's like, Ooh, you know, it just feels a little bit like your birthday or something.
- Speaker #2
Kev, you got to stop wrapping those cigars though. You know, I just, I just want to get to the cigar. I don't want the ribbon. Just let me smoke the bloody thing.
- Speaker #1
The next time you get your Coke Zero, I'm going to give you one of these Coke Zero bottles. I'm going to put it in a nice box. I'll put it in one of those Russian doll boxes where it just keeps getting smaller and smaller. You've got to pick the thing out. You're going to think I gave you a big Coke, and it's like a little tiny model on the bottom. It's not those nothing dolls.
- Speaker #2
What do you do for inspiration? If I'm a brand, and I don't recommend trying to do this on your own if you have no graphic experience, But what do you...
- Speaker #0
recommend for inspiration for brands and package owners where do they research yeah I mean I do a lot of research and I've been doing it today a lot I use Pinterest a lot and I love it I I well there's this firstly Pinterest have Pinterest Trends if you've not heard of that so you can go on to that and look for for example I'm looking for maybe I don't know some packaging for Christmas And then you might look for, they'll come up with some trends for you in terms of what Christmas packaging is and then it will throw you all these pins so it's like a mood board it will put a mood board together for you already and it's really great because then it will suggest other things that you might not thought of like the materials or colors or something else or even logos that might go with your your packaging so you know that Pinterest you can go for a whole rabbit hole on Pinterest in terms of looking for things and creating little mood boards so I have I have a lot of saved boards in my Pinterest. And it's... great because you see so many things for inspiration for logos for colors for packaging for materials even for design layouts um and you know i think people should go well brand owners should go on to pinterest for to start with i mean i know some go on um uh on to instagram there are there's another site called design inspiration um which i look at as well so that it goes it's really quite designed for designers as well So I look at other alternatives, but Pinterest is my go-to and I love it. I can just be there all day just liking this and liking that. And, you know, it's lovely.
- Speaker #2
I like Etsy as well.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, Etsy's lovely, really nice. They've got some really lovely handmade stuff. And it's quite a big market now for people to like sell on there as well. And yeah, I think Etsy's are quite good for packaging inspiration and some other things as well. So, but yeah, but for me, Pinterest is my go-to.
- Speaker #1
Hey, Kevin King and Norm Farrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We've got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player, or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm?
- Speaker #2
Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time? It's just me on here. You're not going to know what I say.
- Speaker #2
I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too. And we'll just, you can go back and forth with one another. Yikes! But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there, there's a banner. Click on it and you'll go to another episode of The Marketing Misfits.
- Speaker #1
Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm.
- Speaker #0
All right.
- Speaker #2
Kev, any last questions?
- Speaker #1
All I know is when I was married, every year at Christmas, we'd have a couple Christmas trees around the house. And since it was just me and my wife, we needed to fill up these Christmas trees. And we filled it up with packaging because she saved every Louis Vuitton box, every Valentino box, every. tiffany's box and with the ribbons and everything so our christmas trees look like a retail storefront window for his brand so it'd be a stacks of all these different boxes like nice luxury boxes under it so uh packaging matters that's all i gotta say we
- Speaker #2
we did the same but our christmas tree had dollar general discount store no thrills
- Speaker #1
I figured you just have FedEx boxes now, Norm. Yeah, that's right.
- Speaker #2
All right, Kitty, we're at the end of the podcast. And at the end of every podcast, we like to ask our misfits if they know a misfit.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I would like I'm sticking with the ladies tonight. And so I'm going to recommend Gracie Ryback. And she's an Amazon influencer. And she does an amazing job on on TikTok and on Instagram as well. So I really sort of think she could be a misfit on for your show.
- Speaker #2
Oh, very good. I'll reach out to her. Okay. And how do we get ahold of you?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, so you can go to my website. It was mebranddesign.com and you will find my details there. So it's just kitty at mebranddesign.com. But yeah, if you go to the website, you'll see everything there and you can contact me through that.
- Speaker #2
All right. So Kev, last word, anything before I remove it?
- Speaker #1
Thanks for coming on, Kitty. Appreciate you sharing your insights and knowledge. This has been great.
- Speaker #0
Oh, thank you so much for having me. It's been great to speak to you guys again. So hopefully see you soon.
- Speaker #1
I'll be waiting for my glasses.
- Speaker #2
Yes. Oh, oops. There we go. I almost got it right. All right, Kev.
- Speaker #1
Always good stuff. Always like talking about branding, packaging. It's a big thing that a lot of people overlook. And you and I are both pretty big on it and have a lot of experience in that. So it's great to speak with someone that loves to geek out on it as well.
- Speaker #2
Yeah. Yeah. And now you're going to have the matching sunglasses. So, you know,
- Speaker #1
all I need is a beard now and I'll be good.
- Speaker #2
Oh, you can start growing it.
- Speaker #1
Start growing the beard so that, you know, people start calling us ZZ Top.
- Speaker #2
Exactly. There we go. All right.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. If you like this podcast, be sure to forward it to somebody, you know, you can always share it. If you like this, you know, someone that needs to hear about their branding or, or get some inspiration on branding, share this podcast with them. Check us out on YouTube. You can, uh, See us on YouTube. You can find us on Apple Podcasts, on Spotify, wherever you listen to your podcasts. You can also go to marketingmisfits.co, marketingmisfits.co. And soon, this summer, we should have a newsletter that's coming out, the Marketing Misfits newsletter as well. That's going to have a lot of cool stuff. So watch for an announcement of that because you're not going to want to miss that. But we're back here every Tuesday with another episode of the Marketing Misfits. Sometimes it's just me and Norm. But a lot of times we have an interesting guest like we had today with Kitty. So hopefully we'll see you again here next Tuesday.
- Speaker #2
All right. See everybody later.
- Speaker #1
Ciao.
