Transcription

• Speaker #0

  One of the biggest things I realized is that, yeah, there's no such thing as internet marketing. There's marketing,

• Speaker #1

  and then there's the internet.

• Speaker #0

  I went really deep in P.T. Barnum's life. These dudes from the 1800s probably understood marketing more than we do because they had much less distribution. There's so much distribution, and it's so easy to reach people at volume that the marketing skill, I think, kind of went down.

• Speaker #2

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  You can nail the hook. The funnel's easy. What most entrepreneurs do when they get in the marketing seat is they make the hook. be about their offer. It's too early to talk about your offer. It's too early to talk about your origin story. What the story is about is the customer. When you can describe the customer's problem better than they can themselves, it is immediately assumed that you have the best solution.

• Speaker #2

  Your watch on the watch marketing mistakes.

• Speaker #1

  Senor Farrar, how are you doing, man? Good to see you again. It's been a minute.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, you know, and I love it when you talk Italian to me.

• Speaker #1

  I'm trying. It's better than my French. I mean, if I try my French accent, I leave that to Mark on. You know, I leave him when he gets drunk. That's his thing. So I don't want to step on anybody's trademark or anything.

• Speaker #2

  But with Mark, it's just like a single language.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly. Exactly. Man, I tell you what, you know, I'm excited about today's guest. You know, we've had his wife on the show before she was his wife, actually. Yeah, right. Right before she was his wife, because they did a badass wedding thing where they turned it into like a little mastermind and stuff. And I've seen this guy speak a couple times. I saw him speak at the internet marketing party in Austin. And I saw him speak at Go High Level, this event called Level Up. And he's got some interesting takes and a cool background. I think this is going to be, for you misfits out there, that includes you too, Norm. This is going to be a good episode, I think.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, well, it's always a good episode. But, you know, one of the things that I think he didn't put enough emphasis on is the wedding. So the wedding made national news. I saw it up here in Canada.

• Speaker #1

  It was on Fox News?

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, it was on. It didn't exist. Whatever. But it was fantastic. When I first heard about it, I didn't know that you knew the couple. And I'm sitting there talking to you saying, this is crazy. Why didn't somebody think about the wedding? And I won't get into it right now, but we'll get into it. One of the rabbit holes will go down.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that's definitely a misfit. If there's ever a misfit, that's thinking outside the box. And that's exactly what we want here on the show. So you want to get into it?

• Speaker #2

  Absolutely. So I'll bring on our guest right now, Steve Lawson. Mr. Lawson, where are you? Oh, I got to hit the button.

• Speaker #1

  What's up? How you doing? Good. I'm so glad to be here. I got to ask you right off the bat, your shirt, every time I see you, this is your branding. Steve Jobs had his little t-shirts and you're always in the capitalist pig. shirt every time I'm seeing you. What is, explain that for people that might not understand. What's the, what's the importance of that to you?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. You know, it was back in 2018, I started noticing that companies where the founder is the brand, those businesses can take off quickly, but very, very quickly also can be hindered by the fact that the attractive character is the business. And so I was like, I need to develop a brand that is not me. that is strong and, um, can be something where people say I'm that also, rather than I'm also Steve Larson, cause that's impossible. We're all individuals. And so, um, I was like, I need to come up with a brand that really rocks the boat. And, um, it was actually from the book, you guys on the book animal farm.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Right. He talks about the different economic systems using a farm as an analogy and the sheep were the socialists because they all moved together and didn't think for themselves. And the pigs were the... capitalists because they are individuals, very individualistic and problem solvers. And so it's so funny, man. The first time someone called me a capitalist pig, I thought that they were giving me a compliment and I didn't realize until later. I was like, I think that guy was trying to be a jerk. And so I was like, I'm going to put that on my shirt. Yeah, I'm a capitalist pig. Capitalism is not the problem. It's the user. So yeah, it's our brand and we sold tons of these things. And I actually got to give one of these to RFK. Um, a few months ago, I wrote out this pledge and it's five points of capitalism. And, um, I said, sir, I'm only allowed to give you this shirt. if you agree to these five points and they're basically don't be an idiot, it's kind of what, you know, use these towers for good. It's kind of what it is. And he's like, I'll treasure this forever, you know? And so I've been going around and challenging different leaders to practice the good kind of capitalism. So we keep it cool in America. Cause you know, it's kind of under attack. So that's why we're,

• Speaker #2

  what are the five points?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. It's funny. You're going to put me on the spot right now. Let me pull them up.

• Speaker #2

  You can make it up.

• Speaker #0

  No, no, no, no. Let me pull it up right now. I did have it memorized, but let me pull it up here.

• Speaker #2

  That's cool that you did that though.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it was a lot of research, you know, and I went deep into, you know, Adam Smith and really the genesis of capitalism. Because I get people a lot of times that say, like, we should just throw capitalism out and do the trade system. And I was like, just think about that for like three seconds and you realize it's dumb. Because if I need tires and you're hungry, you know, but I have food and you don't know how to fix a tire, we already can't trade. It's like money is necessary as a medium value. And so it's nice.

• Speaker #2

  Well, there's a barter system. I don't know if you have that in the States, but in Canada, you can set up this barter network, right? And you could just trade things for points. And it's a little bit weird. But, you know,

• Speaker #0

  this is a medium, right? Like you sold points. Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  But it's kind of weird the way things are going right now where, and this has happened for years, but why is capitalism such a taboo word?

• Speaker #0

  I think it's literally because people just don't know what it is and they associate it with, I believe what Hollywood has indoctrinated us with personally. You know, I'm not trying to throw rocks, but it's just the reality. The school system doesn't teach entrepreneurship, it teaches employee mindhood, you know, mindset. And so, I believe the system is designed to make us be workers in someone else's kingdom. And so, yeah, why not demonize? I mean, literally every bad guy in all the-

• Speaker #2

  Every movies.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, is some rich dude. And it's like every movie. Yeah. Yeah. So the five points of capitalism, I call it the capitalist pledge. And it's five points. Point number one is to follow the law of self-interest, but you use it to fulfill the needs of others in exchange for personal value. So solving problems for profit is one of our mottos. The second tenet is that we champion innovation, competition, and creativity are fuel for valuable solutions. Capitalism is just about problem solving. Number three is we uphold ethical responsibility and that empathy and virtue guide the moral behavior of the individual. We can't give morals and ethics and our own compass to the government. It does come down to the individual. And I think the problem with capitalism is when we start to outsource what is legal versus what is right, right? And so it comes down to the individual's own personal code of ethics. Number four is to support sustainable growth. We balance expansion with the prudent use of resources. And then number five is to maintain the wealth. So once you get rich, don't be an idiot, right? Actively get rich and you actively look for ways to give back using wealth as a force for good. And so I tell them, if you agree to this, put the shirt on, take a picture with it, post it and claim it. And the pledge.

• Speaker #1

  Hey, Norm, you'll love this, man. I talked to a seller the other day doing 50K a month. But when I asked them what their actual profit was, they just kind of stared at me.

• Speaker #2

  Are you serious? That's kind of like driving blindfolded.

• Speaker #1

  Exactly, man. I told them, you got to check out seller board. This cool profit tool that's built just for Amazon sellers. It tracks everything like fees, PPC, refunds, promos, even changing COGS using FIFO.

• Speaker #2

  Aha, but does it do FBM shipping costs too?

• Speaker #1

  Sure does. That way you can keep your quarter four chaos totally under control and know your numbers because not only does it do that, but it makes your PPC bids, it forecasts inventory, it sends review requests, and even helps you get reimbursements from Amazon.

• Speaker #2

  Now that's like having a CFO in your back pocket.

• Speaker #1

  You know what? It's just $15 a month. But you got to go to sellerboard.com forward slash misfits. Sellerboard.com forward slash misfits. And if you do that, they'll even throw in a free two-month trial.

• Speaker #2

  So you want me to say go to sellerboard.com misfits and get your number straight before your accountant loses it?

• Speaker #1

  Exactly.

• Speaker #2

  All right.

• Speaker #1

  Why do you think the U.S. is the... Number one capitalist society in the world. What do you think that's made that where this is the land of opportunity and a lot of people from Latin America think you can just come here and just pick up dollar bills off the sidewalk as you're walking down the sidewalk. But if you're willing to work and put it in here, you can make it here. But you compare that to Europe, a whole different culture and a whole different mindset on entrepreneurs or other places in the world. What do you think as part of this capitalism that actually creates that and fosters that here?

• Speaker #0

  I think of those laws that protect the ability to innovate. Like here, you're a little more free to fail, which also means you're more free to succeed. And that's part of what I mean, if you want to take over anyone's beliefs, just change the stories they consume. You know, story is what upholds belief. You take anyone who stops like a religious person, they stop reading scripture, their belief starts to fall. The story got removed. It's the same thing that's happening in America is what we're seeing is I think everyone's seeing is that the narratives and the stories being pushed are very anti-innovation, very anti-go-think-for-yourself, and very pro-just-pay-me-universal-income. You know, very pro-let's-just-make-the-government-larger. I'm not anti-the-government at all, but, you know, it's still a for-the-people thing. And when that gets flipped, that's the issue.

• Speaker #2

  You know, in Canada, I live up in Ontario. It's kind of scary. Like to become a business person or to become a entrepreneur, all odds are against you, at least here in Canada. I mean, you've got all the risk, more so than what you have in the States. You fail, you fail a lot harder, like you'll fall hard. And there's no empathy. You know, it's just, you're just another business guy who failed, went bankrupt. Like I forget what the bankruptcy rate was.

• Speaker #1

  a few years ago but it was crazy uh hearing that over five years 90 of businesses fail it's nuts well it's it's similar in the states too yeah it's very similar similar here i mean but but speaking speaking of failure failing i mean you've you were uh with click funnels or something right for a while once you like uh failing and with some funnels and then fixing other people's failed funnels and other people's failed businesses and something like

• Speaker #0

  400 funnels or something that you've helped to create over the time hey i think it's closer to 800 now but i yeah i was i think employee 12 over there at click funnels and um loved it sat right next to russell i was this personal funnel builder um and It's funny to be in the room when we were like, I think this ClickFunnels thing has taken off. We should stop doing all these other projects and just go grow this thing. And so we grew it to 60,000 users in like a year, which is nuts. And then I always knew I would never stay there and so did he. And so I left in 2017 and kept doing similar skills for just different businesses. And then I later went back as the CMO of ClickFunnels for a brief period of time to just install processes. But yeah, the capitalism banner is like the overall mission. And then the business underneath is kind of how we push it.

• Speaker #2

  And we talked to a lot of entrepreneurs, especially when we go to events. And they, a lot of the newer ones don't have any clue about a workable funnel. So... Can you tell us, I'm just curious, the simplest form of a funnel? Like what would you recommend for new sellers just to get started, just to understand without overcomplicating it?

• Speaker #0

  I know I kind of said this, you know, Kevin, when you were in the audience there last week, but I think the biggest issue people have with funnels is they don't really know what they are. And so it makes this impossible target. We call them sales funnels. not marketing funnels for a very strong reason. Sales funnels, I mean, we know, I think people just need to realize, like, how do you measure when someone gets a sale? It's like, it's pretty easy. You collect cash. But when I used to have all these sales guys, you know, I'm in my studio right now. On the other side of this wall, 12 full-time salespeople. I mean, the number one thing that I was asking for more of is phone calls. Like, I need more leads. And there's a big reason, the sales department. isn't the one going out and doing that. It's a completely different mentality. And so square one, the biggest reason people mess up funnels is they think it's a marketing function and it's not at all. Marketing is what happens before page one of the funnel. The sales funnel is really just there as like a catcher's mitt. And so marketing's job is to present and get leads and get people to raise their hand and go, what? Tell me more. I'm interested. What to tell your products is that. And it's at that moment personally where I visualize that it's like the marketing department out on the internet is like, I got someone. We got to do that. Someone who's interested. And the lead gets handed to the sales department on page one of the funnel. And that's where the handoff is. And so where people mess up, just the common pattern is that they're like. I built a funnel, therefore I should be done. And it's like, you just got started. And the sales funnel should have the same expectation as a salesperson. But something still has to do with the lead generation. And it's not really what funnels are meant for. And they obviously work together. But if you kind of separate it in your mind, it's a lot easier. The easiest way to think about a funnel is when I was a door-to-door sales guy, I actually was the funnel. You know, I had a message and I had an offer and I would get the leads by walking door to door. The marketing action was door to door. The funnel was me literally saying the message and dropping a pitch. And so like ClickFunnels did not invent funnels. You know, all a funnel is, is an automated message and offer. And so you see these people who don't have a strong offer and wonder why their funnel doesn't work. It's like, well, that's square one. and then The second issue is they don't have a strong sales message. And then the third issue is they use the sales message in the marketing department. And they're totally different scripts. If I use a sales methodology in a marketing seat, it comes off as pushy. And that's where you hear people, I don't want to be annoying. I'm like, then don't be. But you're identifying the square issue, which is that... that marketing is a different kind of messaging than sales message writing and people will take sales intended scripts and use them on facebook and it's like well that's why the conversions are well if i have no traffic that's a totally different type of copy i've

• Speaker #1

  heard you say there's no such thing as internet marketing there's marketing and then there's the internet can you can you explain that yeah um

• Speaker #0

  I don't know how much backstory you want to this. Like five years ago, I got really obsessed with these rich, dead marketers. Like from the 1800s, you know, like Barnum and Claude Hopkins and Albert Lasker. And a lot of these guys, I mean, I, after, I'm a nerd. So I went really deep in P.T. Barnum's life, studied all of his campaigns. I mean, went really deep into his life. Wrote a book on it, which will come out soon. I'm excited about it, but it's. One of the biggest things I realized is that, yeah, there's no such thing as internet marketing. There's marketing. And funny enough, these dudes from the 1800s probably understood marketing more than we do because they had much less distribution. Well, now we got all this distribution. You know, P.T. Barnum was crap as pants if he sees Instagram. He's like, it's no weekend or what we're doing right now. You know, it's like there's so much distribution and it's so easy to reach people at volume that the marketing skill, I think, kind of went down. And so there's marketing and the internet is just a distribution method of that marketing. And if you study the two separately, the game gets a lot easier. Otherwise we start like, Oh, what time I post on Facebook? That's the secret key. It's like, not really. It's like, what is your marketing message? And then it doesn't really matter what channel you use. You know, like when clubhouse was a thing for like a hot second, you know, people were like, should I be a clubhouse? And I'm like, wrong question. It should be, are my customers. using Clubhouse. And if so, it's a channel I can meet them on, you know, and all these, they're just channels. There's distribution methods, emails, a channel, Facebook's a channel door to door is a channel. And when you look at it in that way, the game gets a lot easier to master and you don't get so jarred by the next new platform that comes out. Cause you're like, it's just another distribution method for the same. So what we'll do in our company is we come up with the marketing story that not the sales story. It's not the origin story. No one cares about the origin story until they've already raised their hand. You come up with the marketing story. And once we know it works, we'll just use all the channels we know our customers are on. So if someone's like, oh, I don't want to make Facebook video or YouTube videos. I'm like, all right. Are your people on it? Gets 2 billion searches a month, you know, and like, yeah, my people are on it. And I'm like, then maybe you're just not the marketer and that's okay. Be the entrepreneur. Totally different role. You know. Yeah. So I think that the true study of marketing actually doesn't involve the internet almost at all. And 80% should be on what marketing really is and 20% needs to be on these methods. And then they're all easier to win on because it's just pushing the message.

• Speaker #2

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• Speaker #1

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• Speaker #2

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• Speaker #1

  Right now is one of the best times to get started with Stack Influence. You can sign up at stackinfluence.com or click the link in this video down in the description or notes below and mention Misfits, that's M-I-S-F-I-T-S, to get 10% off your first campaign. Stackinfluence.com. It's like I always like to say, human psychology really hasn't changed in several hundred years. And if you understand the principles of psychology, that's what marketing is. And it doesn't matter. You know, my background is in direct mail. I was doing stuff before the Internet, sending mailers out. Like you're, you know, back then, the funnel, they always said, start with the order form first before you actually make the catalog or the brochure. The first thing you should design is order form and work backwards from there. And, you know, you put stuff on the order form and, you know, upsells. automatically you know by the insurance it's automatically pre-filled ends you gotta scratch it out and you know all that kind of stuff so it's it's that psychology that book you mentioned that's what dramatic illustrations is that's what it was gonna be called

• Speaker #0

  Russell and I were going to co-author together and then it was called us the weird or dumb but it's been such my baby I was like I'm gonna go just do it on my own so it's called it's from what was actually from which is called offer launch And Russell was like, let's co-author a book on that. So we used his name. But then after a while, I was like, oh, I'm going to take that back. So, yeah.

• Speaker #2

  So I'm just curious. I'm not sure if this is the right book. But Kevin and I were talking and he said he heard something. He's mentioned this a few times on the podcast, by the way. But about your Red Ocean Blue offer. Is that from that book?

• Speaker #0

  That'll be a different one. But I'll definitely reference it in there.

• Speaker #2

  Can you tell us a little bit about that?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So I went to school and got a business and marketing and design degree. And it's so funny, the capstone, the final project of all of college, we had to write this 20-page business plan and present it in front of this actual board of investors. And I had colleagues that actually got vested that day. And so glad mine didn't, otherwise I'd be stuck doing it. But they always had this mentality that how big is the market size? What's the competition like? Oh my gosh, this competition? You better go away from this too much competition. And you hear this a lot.

• Speaker #1

  That book came out, Blue Ocean, whatever that, and everybody referenced it. It's on everybody's like, you must read list, top 10 business books you must read.

• Speaker #0

  And it's a wonderful strategy. Red Ocean, Blue Ocean is a wonderful strategy. when you want to create a market. But what really happened for me and the reason this came out is when I was leaving my job as the lead funnel builder at ClickFunnels, I was like, I still want to do funnels, but I don't want to compete with ClickFunnels. I want to complement them. And so how can I position myself in the market, but be unique? I don't want to leave the market. I want to stay in it. And so that's where this whole concept came from, which is, I was like, what if it wasn't red ocean blue ocean what if it was red ocean blue offer and the reason is you know when you go to the blue ocean the reason it's blue is nobody's there and your skill has to be really high when you're a market of one that's not even a market yet there has to be some other business for it to even be a market and so uh quick quick side story on this it really illustrates is that all right yeah sure yeah yeah My first job was in an injection molding plastic factory. I've worked a lot of labor jobs growing up. I was a tire buster,

• Speaker #1

  a discount tire.

• Speaker #0

  I dug sprinkler trenches by hand because my boss was too cheap to buy a trenching machine. So I really affiliate with the movie Holes as a documentary. I could dig a mean hole. I remember this one day I was working a construction job. We were building residential swimming pools. And I was like, I'm done with this. I was home between college semesters and I was like, I'm going to go get rich and figure out how to do it. So I picked up this piece of broken tile on the ground and I just walked out and. Um, at that time I was really into Kiyosaki and I had just read Rich Dad Poor Dad and which is probably the gateway drug for a lot of us. Um, there's this radio ad that comes across the radio. Robert Kiyosaki is coming to a hotel near you to teach you stocks and options. And I was like, what?

• Speaker #2

  Let's go, you know, he's like, it's 200 bucks. And I was like, oh my gosh, that's a lot of holes, you know? So I go over to this, this thing. And it's a three-day little seminar in a hotel.

• Speaker #0

  I didn't know I was in a funnel. And my dad was like, you're going to get scammed. And I was like, no, I'm not, dad. I'll show you. You know, told a trip on my shoulder. And I come back the first day just on fire. And I'm telling my dad all about it. And he's like, I'm going to come with you tomorrow and I'm going to show you the scam. So, he comes with me to the second day. And at first, he was like super standoffish. But after a while, I saw him like pull out a notebook on the side. He's like taking notes and stuff. And so we go back home that day. And my mom was like, so was it a scam? And my dad was like, we spent $30,000 on a coaching program. On stocks and options. And so we got really, really into stocks and options trading. A couple of years goes by. I go back to school, join the army. I do all this stuff. And I talked to my dad and I'm like, you still doing stocks and options trading? And he goes, yeah, but. not on the New York Stock Exchange. I was like, why? We spent 30 grand. That's what we were trained on. And he goes, dude, I'm trading the Forex, the global market, not the national market. It's so much bigger. I was like, yeah, but why? And he said this line that literally influenced Red Ocean Blue Offer. He goes, I'm doing Forex because the pie is so much bigger. I've learned that I can afford to be less skilled, but I still take home more money. I was like, market size matters, right? And I was like, what am I doing going after all these little tiny blue? There's no money in it. When you go to a blue ocean, like those guys deserve to be billionaires. It is really intense. Statistically, it takes 10 years for you to really burrow the market. Most companies don't have that vision for that amount of time either. So they shouldn't be trying to build a blue ocean. And instead, when you go straight into the center of a red ocean, You got Joe Schmo's business that's in there. It's trying to not die. So it's doing marketing and bringing people in. You got Susie Q's business and she doesn't want to die. So she's doing marketing and bringing people in. You have this self-replenishing pond of new leads 24 7. And when I learned to be unique in the sea of red, it is the source of daily leads, easiest sales, shortest sales cycles, because they've already bought from Joe Schmo and they've already overcome objections, really short success cycles. um, post-purchase it's, it's the grand secret positioning that I do for all my clients. It's the first thing I do with them is they're, they usually have no market positioning. And so their average cost to acquire is through the roof. And they also have no clarity on the customer. And it's like, just fixing those two things is usually what makes the rest of the company work. And so I'm like, let's go straight into the heart of the red, the biggest, fattest, exactly the opposite of a college stock straight into the biggest, fattest red ocean that we possibly can. Screw the word niche. No one can define it anyway. And go for really big, really old and where all the money actually is. And you can afford to be less skilled.

• Speaker #1

  Well, that's because your competitors are almost like training your customers. Yeah. What do you call it? Like, what is that? A wedding, a dress rehearsal or whatever for them. And you can just come in and snap them up.

• Speaker #0

  That's funny. That's exactly what I told him. I said, every person. There's really no such thing as a competitor when you may take that kind of market positioning because every purchase from your competitor, quote unquote, is literally a dress rehearsal from buying from you. And they get educated off of the marketing dollar of your competitor. A classic example of that was when, it's so funny. I love my parents. My mom thought for years I was selling kitchen funnels.

• Speaker #1

  She's like, what do you do? I don't know what you do. She's like, you're selling funnel. But I was like, no, that's not at all.

• Speaker #2

  It's like, mom,

• Speaker #1

  I'm not that kind of guy. Like, no,

• Speaker #0

  I don't want to learn to be good at cooking. But isn't that funny that the word funnel meant something different to her? And so it's not that I couldn't sell my mom funnels, but the education bridge I got across with her is huge. And that costs money and time. But when I use the word funnel inside of a specific market, they've already been educated. the easiest sales, funny enough, come from those who've already bought from your competitor. And you're just selling to the frustrated market. And they're the easiest to close. Is blue offer your moat or is that completely different?

• Speaker #1

  No, yeah. The blue offer is what makes you unique in there, but you don't leave the market. It's funny when I'm at my studio right now, you know, I'll be on this stage and I'll be teaching the people here. I'll be like, I'll be like, we're these entrepreneurs at heart. I got to tell you, we got to be honest. The entrepreneur is the broke role. You know, think about what happens. I go into the creative cave. And I invent something that's never been seen before. You know, something that this is amazing. We should, right? The creative genius in the cave making this cool thing that's amazing that no one's seen. But then literally just because it's new, we'll go do the equivalent of build a mall to have a place to sell it. And I'm like, if you can't convert the foot traffic at the mall that someone else already built, why on earth would you go through the hell of building your own mall? I'm not saying Red Ocean Blue Ocean is not a great strategy, but it's the one for billionaires when most business owners just want more money for retirement and for vacation time with the families and investments. And it's like, stay in the big fat red oceans and learn to be unique in it. And you actually end up solving all the problems that you have to solve anyway, if you're going to build a blue, but you actually just, you're closer to the fountainhead of cash.

• Speaker #2

  Hey, Norm, do you know any sellers out there that are just... burned out doing this e-com game?

• Speaker #0

  You know, I know a lot of people that have talked to us, you know, when we go to events and it's not only that, they don't know where to start.

• Speaker #2

  And who would you recommend they talk to?

• Speaker #0

  The first one that comes to mind is Quietlight Brokerage. And here's why. They're going to build you up. They're going to understand your company. And at the end of the day, you're going to know how to maximize your valuation. So the very first thing you need to do is go and get your free confidential. evaluation at quietlight.com. They're going to ask a couple of questions. You're going to meet up. It's one-on-one with somebody over there and then, you know, let the games begin.

• Speaker #2

  Awesome. What was that website again?

• Speaker #0

  It's quietlight.com.

• Speaker #2

  Awesome. I'm going to head over there. So is it fair to say if you take that approach of what you're saying that it's not really a traffic It's more of a, like you said, with some of your clients, more of a messaging or positioning problem. Would that be fair to say?

• Speaker #1

  100%. The formula for daily lead flow is positioning, hooks, and branding. And it's hard to brand if there's nothing to compare you to.

• Speaker #0

  Can you give us a case? where you've tweaked something to match those three things that you just talked about, which just made a killer difference.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah. There's a company that I bought into a couple of years ago. This lady was, she was the professor of genetics at the University of Florida. And she created this very interesting business where she took pharmacists who have PhDs. And she taught them how to work directly with labs, testing labs, and not through insurance-backed doctors. And what we would do is we would take a cheek swab and send it directly to a lab. And they could tell based on your DNA what medications you're taking that you should be described from. Like we're very prescribed happy, you know, in this country. But no one ever tells you when to stop taking it. And so... uh the business was let's teach these pharmacists who get stuck in walgreens and they're just pill pushers you know or cvs you know or a hospital and let's actually use what they studied which is how to de-prescribe describe whatever uh people from their medications um and so she's like can you come in and help pull this up so i was like first thing you're going after the medical industry which is already kind of spicy yeah so like we gotta be careful here But to create positioning, what we did is I created a positioning where we ended up calling the whole medical industry general medicine. And we created a category called precision medicine. We didn't leave the red. We created a new thing inside of it called precision medicine. And so, when people would be like, oh yeah, I went to my doctor. We're like, oh awesome, is he a general medicine practitioner or a precision medicine practitioner? People were like. What? I saw my DNA. We're like, yeah, have you not got a cheek swab before? Like these things are free and it works so well, like so, so well. So this precision medicine category that we created, like it also attracted the pharmacists who were like. Yeah, this is what I went to go to school for, you know? And so we ended up creating this branding. They always wanted to get their white lab coat. So we call them the wealthy white coats. And they put on their white coat. And that was the equivalent of the capitalist pig branding. They're really, they're championing thing. I'm a wealthy white coat, meaning I'm not going to get stuck in a pharmacy or, you know, a CVS kind of a thing. I'm a worker direct with labs. And what we taught them to do is to get their own book of business from the neighborhoods that they lived in. And then after that, it unfolded to other like, you know. customized supplements and things like that. But yeah, that's exactly what we're talking about. It's like branding is impossible. Strong branding is impossible when there's not an us versus them. And so it's like if you go in the cereal aisle in America, right, there's like the generic brand and then there's the brand name. And often those are owned by the same company, right?

• Speaker #2

  Almost the same factory line.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, literally. They just package it differently. I mean, if you literally pull back the box and look at the ingredients, it is exactly the same product. And so, I like to ask people, which one should I choose? And it's funny because you can start to hear the little I am statements coming out. Oh, well, I'm going to choose the one on the left. I'm going to choose the generic because it's cheaper. I'm like, oh, so you believe that thrift is good. Awesome. Who's going to choose the one on the right? It's literally twice the price. Like, oh, well, I worked hard this week and I made a big sale. So I'm going to. And it's funny that our little I am statements and what we believe about ourselves is reflective of the products we choose to purchase. But funny enough, the name brand product cannot exist in that kind of positioning without the generic to compare it to. And so when you go out and you create Red Ocean, Blue Ocean, or Red Ocean, Blue Offer rather, there has to be a comparative statement with what's inside of that red. You can't do that if it's a blue ocean. There's nothing to compare it to. And so... It's very hard. You have to, it can, it's very challenging though. So, the positioning piece is one of the strongest things you can, it's positioning plus hook plus brand. You get those things lined in. It doesn't matter if you're using Facebook or YouTube or Instagram, like all these are just methods of distribution and, and, um, you know, you don't get traffic, you stand in front of it. And so what are the channels that all of my people are already on? And you start dropping those hooks in the middle. of those rivers that already exist and daily leads is very easy.

• Speaker #2

  Norm's a big domain guy. And I heard you talk about where you get this positioning stuff with some domains. And you had one that's like, are we roommates.com? And the other one was like, not your mama's body.com.

• Speaker #1

  And so you've really been going through my stuff.

• Speaker #2

  I have some notes here from your talk at IMP. Okay, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so you gave like 10 examples of different ones where you actually start with a domain name. You figure out the position and you figure out the market. Who's going to say I am, like you said, on the cereal aisle? And then you go after that domain name and then you build around that. So they're instantly, as they're typing that in or as they're seeing that, they're like, that's me. That's me, of course. Can you talk about that or maybe even give one of those examples?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, absolutely. and the whole premise behind it is that it goes back to market messaging versus sales messaging and how they're totally different. Sales messaging is when you start telling your origin story. This is where my product came from. This is where I come from. This is the offer. That's sales messaging. Market messaging is a form of messaging that is the customer's story. They don't care about you yet, right? They just want to know they're understood. And so in the psychology of helping someone make a decision to Bye. first you go and you talk about then it's like, what's the story that you're experiencing right now? What's the problem that you're experiencing? And once you know that I know that I know you, then they start raising their hand and saying, oh my gosh, you get me. Tell me more. Now, now they've asked, tell me about your thing. And now it's not weird when you start doing your sales stuff. So I call it the offer hook. And the offer hook is a very specific story that you're finding. which later gets expressed in a headline and later gets expressed in a ad, Facebook ad, then later gets expressed in your organic YouTube content. We're just trying to identify the story that when someone hears it, it's almost like a little baby trigger. And they're like, oh my gosh, this person gets me. Tell me more. So I've ruffled a lot of marketers' feathers. If you can't tell, I'm a misfit. I'm so excited to be honest with you guys. I won't shut up about this stuff, but, um, you know, it's interesting. You have all these marketers, quote unquote, who are putting videos out. where nobody ever watches that video and then says, tell me more. And I always like to challenge them and say, was that video you put out marketing then? And people don't like it. When I help them realize the answer is no. Like we can't claim that everything we're doing on the internet is marketing. I'm not saying there's no value in being present. There certainly is and just showing up. But if you put out a piece of content and no one ever says, tell me more about your products. we can't call that marketing. Marketing is only measured in lead gen. It's only measured in hand raises. And some people don't like that, but I find it actually brings a lot of clarity and breathing room because now I know what I should be doing on the internet to get leads for my funnel. I need to get hand raises. And that really narrows and simplifies all this stuff that we feel like we should be doing as marketers. I'm just pulling up my internet marketing party speech here. One of these hooks. Do the hook. It was a good one.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, you did one of the women in their 30s with unsatisfying marriages. You did post-pregnancy weight loss, Christian men seeking marriage, windbags, osteoporosis. You did a whole bunch of them.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I've done almost 100 of them now for clients.

• Speaker #2

  The Claude Hopkins in the toothpaste industry is a good one too.

• Speaker #1

  You're literally quoting my deck. Can you see my screen right now? No,

• Speaker #2

  I got the notes.

• Speaker #1

  You took great notes. Yeah, yeah. So, okay, this is a, I already did a medical one, so we'll do a relationship one. I try to choose ones that are in like health and relationships because if people can see it in those industries, like it's easy to do it in the make money space. So, all right, this one was, this guy, I don't remember, this was a long time ago. This guy helps men. get their life back. They're Christian men and they have, they're professionals, but their pressures they're under, they kind of cope with some bad habits, fill in the gaps and whatever that means, you know? And so, I asked them, I was like, what market are you trying to go towards? And thankfully, he said the marriage market. I was like, good. It's big, it's rad. Probably probably the oldest market. And... So anyway, this is the hook that I wrote. And when I read this, a lot of people go, I don't understand. You're going to put that entire thing on the headline of a page? And the answer is no. What I'm trying to do first is just identify the story that causes an emotional reaction that gets somebody to say, tell me more. I think you're describing me. Then we go through the work of actually writing into a headline and writing into sales copy for a page. But all this is, is the story that causes emotional hand raising. All right. So here's the hook. Um, and you want to imagine that the dream customer is going to run into this in the channels they're already on and feel so understood that they're like, oh my gosh, I got to go see what this is. Um, you've enjoyed life as a Christian man, a father, a leader in your career, yet the marriage has fell off for a few years now. To cope with the discomfort, you've taken on a few bad and secret habits that you're not proud of. She's noticed and removed herself from you. This time by physically moving out and you don't know when or if she's coming back. What steps could you take to feel like a man you can be proud of and win her back? And we got winbackyourwife.com. And you notice that what most entrepreneurs do when they get in the marketing seat is they make the hook be about their offer. I'm into this thing and you're going to get the three steps on this one. And that's not what we're doing at all. It's too early to talk about your offer. It's too early to... talk about your origin story. What the story is about is the customer, the customer's story. One of my favorite books is Play Bigger. I don't remember if this is a quote or just a sentiment that I got from it, but it teaches in that book that when you can describe the customer's problem better than they can themselves, it is immediately assumed that you have the best solution.

• Speaker #0

  Hmm.

• Speaker #1

  And so... you have all these entrepreneurs championing solutions and that's just a game of noise. It's like, who can be the loudest? And that's, you absolutely get annoying like that. Solution, solution. I got the best thing. I got the best thing. And you're just, you're just championing it. Right. And that's the focal point of your marketing and it's annoying. But if you can do the exact opposite and make your marketing be championing problems instead of solutions, you immediately out position everybody else. Immediately the customer feels understood. Immediately they assume that. that you know them and therefore you have the solution for them um and so these offer hooks are

• Speaker #2

  customer-based stories in the middle of their near triggering pain and we want to write them in a way like when i read them a lot of people are like can we say that oh my gosh like holy hell you're like going for the jugular here right that is intense but we want to write it in a way that can alienate some people right yeah they alienate some the obvious the audience is signing that alienates those are the ones that going can you say that or yeah

• Speaker #1

  100 meant to like good marketing is a magnet and a filter. And what most people mess up with when they write these hooks is they just have a magnet. And so they start, you know, we got to be honest about the fact that if there's such thing as a dream customer, there's such thing as a hell customer, right? And someone who should not have bought from you. And so when you want that push pull language and these stories do that, where it's like, if someone can't relate with the offer hook I just read, they bounce. It's like, it's good. That's good that they bounced. It also will attract more people because of it. And your option rates shoot to the roof.

• Speaker #2

  Hey, Kevin King and Norm Farrar here. If you've been enjoying this episode of Marketing Misfits, thanks for listening this far. Continue listening. We've got some more valuable stuff coming up. Be sure to hit that subscribe button if you're listening to this on your favorite podcast player. Or if you're watching this on YouTube or Spotify, make sure you subscribe to our channel because you don't want to miss a single episode of the Marketing Misfits. Have you subscribed yet, Norm?

• Speaker #0

  Well, this is an old guy alert. Should I subscribe to my own podcast?

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, but what if you forget to show up one time? It's just me on here. You're not going to know what I say.

• Speaker #0

  I'll buy you a beard and you can sit in my chair too. We'll just, you can go back and forth with one another. Yikes. But that being said, don't forget to subscribe, share it. Oh, and if you really like this content, somewhere up there, there's a banner. Click on it. And you'll go to another episode of the Marketing Misfits.

• Speaker #2

  Make sure you don't miss a single episode because you don't want to be like Norm. Now, on your hooks, I remember you said in that same talk, you have a five-step process, a hook formula. It's like a five. Can you walk us through those five steps?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah. I should just play that speech. Yeah, I'm glad that you love it so much. It's part of a three-day event that I do. So I really struggled to put it into 30 minutes. I was like, I was like, I was really good. I was like, give me some more time. Yeah. So the five parts that make up the off-hook formula, and I started recognizing that I was doing this after I'd been writing hooks for clients for like two years. And I was like, I'm not, what is this? I'm not writing sales material. Half the reason this came up is because I could not get anyone to give me a good definition of a hook. you know everyone's like the hook is the thing that grabs attention and that's like as far as you get when you ask what a is and i was like that's a crappy hook definitely i could slap you in the face i'll get your attention you know but you're not going to say tell me more do

• Speaker #2

  it again that's what norm does to me when he comes he's like do it again

• Speaker #1

  I told someone, I was like, I can kick you in the balls and I'm going to have your attention, but it's the wrong kind of attention. So it's not a good debt. Like our industry, funny enough, has a really tough time with what a hook actually is. We knew we need them, but it's like, anyway, so that's, that's where this also came from. All right. So the first thing that we do when we're writing one of these hook formulas, it's usually a two hour exercise, but if you can nail the hook, the funnel is easy because it themes the entire funnel. So, Um, we go in and we say, number one, we need to describe the dream customer, right?

• Speaker #2

  Like call them out, basically.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Well, also at the same time, saying in a storyline that if that person can't identify with the story, they're like, this is not for me. And they leave. So you're bouncing in that first sentence.

• Speaker #2

  Like a call and filter, basically.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah. The second part, of it. I call it the dream customer buying experience. So what I do there is I describe what I want them to already have purchased to be considered a dream customer. So I was like, oh, you've gone off and you've tried these other, maybe I'll read another one. I know after I kind of go through this, but I want to call out what they've already been attempting to try to have success. So I'm trying to- It was like,

• Speaker #2

  if someone was hiring your agency, it'd be like, you've already talked to this other agency and gone through this, this, and this. They gave you the weakest person. They just didn't perform. And you're always begging them for reports and never got something along those lines.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Yeah, exactly. You want to call. And the reason that that's part of it matters so much is that you're basically filtering out freeloaders. If they've never opened up their wallet, if they've never been educated off the back of someone else's dollar, if they've never. you know, all that does is put more intensity on your fulfillment post-purchase. So I want to upgrade the quality of the customer I'm trying to serve with that. The third part, I call it the infinite story trap. The place people will mess hooks up on is they write folks around problems that their customer has become numb to. And if they're numb to it, then they don't care. And so I first want to identify the story that this- What would be an example of that?

• Speaker #2

  Of like being numb to?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, like the weight loss industry. If someone's like, I'm overweight and I'm overweight until I am, you know, it's like, well, your weight loss product is probably not going to be exciting then. You know what

• Speaker #2

  I mean?

• Speaker #1

  So, I first identify the story trap, called the infinite story trap. Oh,

• Speaker #2

  it's the story trap in their head.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  It's what they're telling themselves in their head. Okay, I got you now. Okay.

• Speaker #1

  infinitely in this thing. But the fourth part matters just as much, which I call it the emotional hammer drop. Something has to drop the hammer. What's the thing that, you know, the strata breaks the camel's back. Hey, you've taken up some bad habits in your life and your wife has noticed. Okay. Story trap. However, this time she moved out. Hammer drops. Okay. I've got to do something about this.

• Speaker #2

  All right.

• Speaker #1

  So it's. it's usually some emotional or dramatic thing that has happened to them that makes them say, it's time for change. Let's get serious. You got a product, I'm ready to buy it. Yeah. And then the fifth one, I call it a change-based question. And so questions hijack the brain. And so just like in sales, I want to always want to end with a question, not just a statement. I do the same thing in marketing. I want to end with a question. that opens an opportunity for them. So what, what could you do in the next 90 days to get X results while still having ABC in your life? Right. Um, some kind of timestamped change-based question, what could you do? And then the answer is the.com went back your wife. The answer is, you know, so, so the hook is not just a headline. We express it in the headline. We express it in the.com. It's expressed in. The same sentiment of the stories expressed in the ad. If I'm getting, you know, if I'm making podcasts or YouTube content, I'm still saying that same storyline in different variations and ways. So I'm always subtly pulling people to say, tell me more, tell me more, and pushing away those who are not a fit for the company. Should I give one more example here?

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, that'd be great.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #2

  Maybe I stop at each point just for people listening. So they. Like, after any sense, I'd say that was the emotional hammer drop. That was just an illustrative point.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that sounds good. This is for a client of mine that I had two years ago. This is the Osteoprocess one. He's the marketing firm that OsteoStrong uses, or like half of their 170 locations in the U.S. uses. This hook was so strong that his competitor heard it and just asked to be acquired. They're like, wow. So his company doubled in like three months because his competitor was like, I don't even want to compete with that. And he just said they, anyway, so, um, he was, he was at a convention debuting it and his competitor was like, um, no, let's just be together. So, um, so he helps women in America who, um, get diagnosed with osteoporosis and in America you can only give bone medication to a woman for two years because that's how long it's medically safe. And most of the time a woman's bones are weaker because it actually removes minerals from the bones. Don't know why that is that way in America, chalk it up to whatever. But, um, and so what their company does is at the end of that two years, when a woman finds out her bones are still weak, they swoop in and say, here's the actual way to make your bones stronger. Um, so anyway, so that was the hook. And he's like, we need more clients. We need more people walking into our facilities, more women who have this scenario. So like, okay. So here's the hook. And so first thing I got to do is call out the dream customer. The doctor wants to meet again to share a few options. After your latest bone density scan showed that your bones actually got weaker. So already in that first sentence is the hardest one to write. I'm calling out the dream customer and I'm pushing away the person who isn't. So if a woman has just gotten diagnosed with osteoporosis and she hasn't done two years, She's already not a fit for this. The doctor wants to meet again to share a few options that your latest bone density scan showed that your bones actually got weaker. But why? For months, so here's the... this is the call out, um, trying to read on. Okay. This is the current offer frustrations. This is calling out the dream customers, current buying experience, this next line. But why for months, you've gone along with the doctor's orders, taking harder pronounced medications, going on more walks, increasing calcium. So that's what they're already trying doing and buying. So the story continues. Now we have to do the infinite story trap. Back again with a doctor, you're told that things would have been worse if you hadn't been following their prescription. But the advice that you're given is to just keep doing what you are. It's a trap. No options. Okay. Now we have to make the floor fall out. We have to do an emotional hammer drop. As you get back in your car, you notice the biggest fear you have is painfully letting getting your bones so weak that you end up in permanent assisted living, unable to move or really live again. Now we have to go into, I do two sets of. change-based questions will slowly deteriorating represent the rest of your life and what you're remembered for what's simple here's the change-based question for real what simple but hidden unorthodox path could you take in the next 12 months to keep all those medications from slowly poisoning your bones to death and restoring the longevity you once had and were known for and we got bone poisoning.com dude the best slayed This guy is so freaking good. I don't know what they've done with the domain since, but 55% opt-in on a free thing that led to a phone call for them to sell and then come into their practices. It's crazy.

• Speaker #2

  That's awesome.

• Speaker #1

  Own poisoning. He was really scared to put it out. He's like, that's like really intense. And I was like, yeah, but it's also intense what they're going through. So meet them where they are and write an intense hook and tell the hardcore story. And they've attracted just tons of women who are like, yeah, I feel like I'm, and what the funnel was, I haven't looked at it for like two years, so can't talk to that. But what the funnel was, was you went to bonepoisoning.com and it said, hey, put your name and email in here. What we're going to do is we're actually going to give you a PDF download of all the real side effects from the popular bone medications in America that are medically backed, but probably not explained to you when you were prescribed those medications. For example, did you know your jaw can detach? go ahead and put your name and email in and we'll send you this pdf and so so they they grab the pdf and they're re these are you know we were making this up is like these are the real of the top 10 bone medications in america for osteoporosis and then on the next page is like do you want to hop on a call it's

• Speaker #2

  just getting phone calls so if you're if your stuff is good don't be afraid to poke the bear yep rock the boat yeah rock and a lot of people are afraid to do that that's I mean, Norm and I also have an agency that does email marketing for e-com sellers. And people are like, it just amazes us how many people are sitting on these lists and just afraid to email them or bother them more than once a month or something like that.

• Speaker #0

  I don't want to be annoying.

• Speaker #2

  We might unsubscribe or be annoying. It's just, it baffles our mind. Like, dude, you're leaving so much money on the table.

• Speaker #0

  Or people are going to unsubscribe.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And you are being annoying if you're using sales messaging in your email channel. But if you use market messaging. You'll find that people actually thank you while they're buying from you because they feel understood.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

• Speaker #0

  Hey, we are already at the top of the hour. And unfortunately, we've got to move on. But this was so great, Steve.

• Speaker #2

  This was awesome, man. Yes.

• Speaker #0

  We never even got into your marriage, which was another great marketing technique. We'll wait for that one. Yeah, that'll be awesome. Hey, look, we always have one question we ask our misfits and do you know a misfit?

• Speaker #1

  Oh, yeah. Yep. As soon as you asked. Domingo Salvas. That guy's a misfit.

• Speaker #0

  All right. Well, I can't. Tell us a little bit about Domingo.

• Speaker #1

  This guy goes into companies and grows them so quickly. They usually give him equity and then he flips them. He had an $80 million exit. He is a massive AI agency that builds AI tools for companies custom. He's amazing.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, fantastic.

• Speaker #1

  I would love to get an introduction. We'll reach out or Mary will reach out and we'll get an introduction to him. That would be awesome. So if people want to reach out to you, what's the best way to, you said you have an agency and you tell us what's the best way for people to get in touch with you if they want to learn more or work with you.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, yeah. I appreciate that. Probably the best place right now is launchforprofit.com. We just teach people the very principles I was going through right here and then help people apply them. With everything that's going on right now, that's probably the best place. If not, then cjlarson.com.

• Speaker #0

  Fantastic. All right, Steve. Well, thanks for there goes my Coke Zero. Thanks for coming on.

• Speaker #2

  Appreciate it, man.

• Speaker #1

  Thanks. Thank you.

• Speaker #0

  All right. That was fantastic.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that was awesome. That was good stuff. I like it when the guests come on and they give examples, like walkthrough. People listening or watching this can actually, when they take something away, it's always good to have guests that have cool stories and that are interesting. But you know how you listen to some podcasts and it's more like theory or it's more like general things or it's more about just about them and not about things that you can actually do and take away. And that's one of the things that I've always liked when I've heard Steve talk is he's always about just delivering value and just sharing his experiences and his knowledge and saying it in a way that most people can understand, you know, not a lot of target or whatever. and I thought that I think this is going to be a very popular episode.

• Speaker #0

  Just exactly what was on my mind, Kevin.

• Speaker #1

  And if you want to hear the other half and some would say probably the better half, you want to go make sure you listen to Marley Jack's episode of Marketing Misfits. I'm not sure what number that one will be, but make sure you go into where do they do that? How would they find that, Norm?

• Speaker #0

  They would go to YouTube and just type in Marketing Misfits podcast. And that's where you can hear about the wedding. by the way.

• Speaker #1

  That's right. And that one. And then you can find us on the TalkTekkers or what's that thing? Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  You can go to TalkTekkers or whatever they're going to call it soon. But yeah, TikTok, we've got a channel there. It's just Marketing Misfits. We launched it about four months ago and it's doing really well. So check.

• Speaker #1

  One of the clips had like 200,000 views or something like that.

• Speaker #0

  I don't know. There, there were some, there's some there that have a ton. So yeah, check it out. We always like the extra view. But the other thing is, and this is really important, we have another channel, another YouTube channel that only does three minutes and under clips. So the long form is always great. A lot of times you might not have time, but you can always check that out. And those are the nuggets that we dig out of every episode. And it's a great channel. So it's upgraded and new published videos are up there every day.

• Speaker #1

  And yeah. And also we're on Spotify. We're on Apple podcast, all those cool places where you want to listen, or you can always go to marketingmisfits.co. If you get confused, like where do I go? Just go to marketingmisfits.co. It's not.com. It's.co.

• Speaker #0

  And after this podcast, by the way, I'm buying, areyouamisfit.com.

• Speaker #2

  We should,

• Speaker #1

  I mean.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I will.

• Speaker #1

  I know you will. Cause you have like, 20,000 domains already. What's one more? What's one more? What's one more? Hey, speaking of one more, we'll see you guys again next week for one more episode of the Marketing Misfits, another brand new episode every Tuesday. Thanks again for joining us today. And I'll see you soon too, Norm.

• Speaker #0

  All right. We'll see you later, Kevin.

• Speaker #1

  Take care,

• Speaker #0

  everybody. I hope you enjoyed it.