Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Welcome to this flight of the Retail Pilot. I'm Ken Pilot, former CEO and current brand advisor, investor, and board member. I'm thrilled to share with you some of the insights from retail's leaders and legends, as well as my perspective on retail today. This podcast is sponsored by the following. PredictSpring is a global point of sale platform live in 22 countries. The platform includes mobile POS, endless aisle, fulfillment, inventory management and clienteling, creating a true omni-experience for customers and associates. BrickSpring Powers, Suit Supply, Converse, Lovesac, Decium, Janie and Jack, and Bouclair. We are back with Jan Niffen on today's pre-flight. Jan, how are you?

• Speaker #1

  I couldn't be better.

• Speaker #0

  Well, as we fly into 2025, taking a look at the macro situation that's out there for retailers. What do we have in store for us in 2025?

• Speaker #1

  Well, you know, I've just talked to too numerous to mention retailers and investors in retail over the last two weeks. Given NRF, ICR, Evercore, ISI, that's all happened in the last two weeks. So I've actually seen Urban Outfitters, Genesco, Aritzia, ANF, Boot Barn, MyTheresa, Knitwell, On Running, Reformation, Guess, Macy's, Oxford, VF, Walmart, The Honest Company, and Fabletics present. formally, and I've talked to a jillion others informally. So I'm never going to be any smarter than I am right now about what retailers and investors think about next year or this year now, I guess. Well, next year if you're a retailer. We haven't really started next year yet for retailers. It doesn't really start till this coming Saturday. So what do they really think happened and what do they think is going to happen is really the question. And they were really enthusiastic at all the meetings that I attended and all the people I talked to. You don't always get this positive vibe when you're at ICR, for instance, and I've been to 26 of those, I think. And some years, you know, they're all sour and they're not so great. But this year, people were just very positive about what they had just seen. And they were all turning toward 25, looking into the next year, saying, boy, we got through the last year. It was the short season. Didn't matter. Gross margins were still good. Things were still solid. The rising debt on the consumer didn't matter. The continuing high mortgage rates didn't matter. The after effects of the continuing inflation didn't really matter to most of the retailers. It really only mattered to people dealing with the sort of bottom two deciles of the economy. And so they were all positive. And then when they turned to look at 25, they were sort of in the boat of, well, what's going to change 25? We think interest rates will be falling. We think inflation will be lower. We think the consumer will have just as good a job picture. And we think, therefore, spending will be healthy. And I think they're right. I don't see any of those things changing. So given all that, and given the fact that we still think the consumer has a job, will keep their job, and if they lost one, they can get one paying just as much or more, it looks like they'll continue to spend. So if you're dealing with that healthier consumer, the people in the top... three-fifths of the economy, they all seem fine. And when you talk to the retailers that are dealing with the bottom two-fifths, they say, well, they're starting to get used to the fact that 2019 is no longer here and they're paying 24% more for their lifestyle is than they were then. But they've been doing that now for a while and they're sort of built that into their lives and they're still getting wage increases. And it looks like they're getting. healthier too. At least their willingness to spend is getting better. So even there, it looks like that bottom part of the economy will be okay. So I'm very enthusiastic about my traditional retailers, people like Ralph Lauren, Nike, Lulu, PVH, Decker's, On Running, Levi's, LVMH, even VF, because they're all dealing with that healthier consumer. And it looks like things will still be good there. And so the last thing is they keep talking about it is the tariffs, right? But even the retailers have finally said, we don't think the tariffs are going to be a big deal to us, even if they put 10% on China, or even maybe a little more than 10%, because we're just not bringing as much out of China. So unless you're in, say, toys, which are 80% still out of China, or you're like five below where 60% of your product is coming out of China, you're not too concerned. Because if you're tapestry, 10% of your stuff's coming out of China. It's just not that big an impact for most retailers, depending on. the category you've got but if you're talking about my discretionary retailers They're not too concerned. And nobody really thinks they're going to get 25% tariffs on Canada and Mexico. But even in those situations, that product's not coming from there either for the discretionary retailers in those cases. So they're not concerned about the tariffs. And I will say I'm not very concerned about the tariffs. China's not going to pass that through even if they get it. And even if they did, it doesn't affect most of these retailers.

• Speaker #0

  I would wholeheartedly agree. I felt this at NRF. There's just... a huge tailwind. And there is more confidence, I think, going into 2025 than I've experienced in a number of years. So hopefully that business that we saw happening in Q4, as it picked up, even without that 53rd week or up against it, I should say, will carry into the new year. We'll see the enthusiasm. I think relative to tariffs, they may happen. They may not happen. Who knows? I don't even think Trump knows. But so many retailers and brands have already made the big changes out of China. So they've mitigated that to some degree. So like you, I feel very positive going into the new year. And with that, we'll land this pre-flight. Thanks, Jan. On today's flight of the retail pilot, I have Emily Curran and Merit Elliott, who've been best friends and business partners for over two decades. After starting their journey together at UCLA, they embarked on a creative partnership working as stylists. Later, they launched their denim brand, Curran Elliott. created a home wine collaboration with Pottery Barn, and in spring 2015, Emily and Merritt launched their women's line, The Great, a brand rooted in classic Americana nostalgia and charm. The brand is currently sold in over 300 department and specialty stores worldwide by e-commerce and in eight retail stores. Emily and Merritt are proud of their unique journey and story, but most significantly, their special and everlasting friendship. I'm excited to welcome Emily and Merit to the Retail Pilot. Good to see you.

• Speaker #2

  Hi, Ken.

• Speaker #0

  We're meeting you, I should say.

• Speaker #2

  Nice to meet you.

• Speaker #0

  Tell everybody a little bit about your journey because you're running a brand today, but how did you get there? And you have a very interesting friendship that started some time back. Take us through how you got to where you are today.

• Speaker #3

  Sure. I'll kick it off. Emily and I are both from Northern California. And we met as students at UCLA and kind of love at first sight through fashion. We were both always wearing vintage denim and we had this Northern California style sensibility that was unique to other kids on campus. So we started kind of hanging out, going to flea markets, vintage shows, talks, trading, cool ideas, remaking clothes, that type of thing. As one does with, you know, not a big budget. We were the queens of resourcefulness. And then at graduation, we sat next to each other and talked about how just we both had a love of fashion and creating things. And we had this entrepreneurial spirit and that one day we would want to work together. And at the time, that just that was kind of a novel concept. That was not the path that everyone was going on. So separately, we worked in kind of entry level jobs in fashion. And soon, like not, you know, maybe six months later, we started styling together. We loved creating what, you know, head to toe looks for editorials. ad campaigns, music videos, you know, we did a lot of free jobs and then they started paying us. And then that turned into a career. So we lost our individual jobs and we became a styling team.

• Speaker #0

  When you were styling, Emily, so who was the first wow that you styled? I mean, like saying, oh my God, I can't believe we're styling for?

• Speaker #2

  Oh, that's a good question. You know, we started our career in music. It just kind of came easily for us. We started working with music labels, doing a lot of image development for new sign talent. So a lot of the people we got to work with in the very beginning of their careers were like Katy Perry and other people in that genre, like a lot of women, as well as bands, female and male bands. So it was just a really interesting opportunity for us to develop somebody's identity in that tied towards sort of what they wanted to present themselves as. And as that grew, We got to work with incredible people and a lot of people in the music industry. And I think one wow moment was working with Fiona Apple only because she was such a remarkable musician and person and getting to work with her on developing her aesthetic around certain albums was really remarkable. But we've had a lot of pinch me moments through our styling career. And to be honest, we continued styling until just a few years ago. And we slowly kind of... moved only into the consulting side of the styling world. But we continued to style through our first business and up until even, you know, a few years ago into the great, I think styling has continued to be sort of the foundation of how we stay in really deeply integrated into what is out there in the world, what our aesthetic is, what's missing. And it's just really been the foundation of our entire career.

• Speaker #0

  From styling. you had an epiphany that you wanted to build a brand. Merit, take me through a little bit of when that happened, why it happened, and what was the opportunity specifically that you saw that you were ready to address?

• Speaker #3

  Sure. You know, we love vintage. Everything we love is grounded in something familiar and nostalgic. And so we would have racks of designer clothes on set for artists or musicians or actresses and actors. But what was missing was that sort of like effortless, vintage. piece that kind of made the full look just warm and familiar and cool. So we were constantly bringing to set our perfect vintage white t-shirt, our perfect pair of jeans, our dad's old flannels and jean jackets. And we were styling album covers and music videos with some of these pieces. And consistently we're getting feedback that those were things that people wanted to buy and participate in. So then we would start customizing jeans for a lot of these clients. They would say like, can you just bring me a rack? Help me find the best wash, the best fit. Educate me on what this style of Levi's versus this. And so we were doing that consistently and just with our old needle and thread, doing that for a lot of clients. And in that, we were consulting for a manufacturing kind of umbrella and had the opportunity to kind of recreate these vintage pieces under our own label. Again, heavily styling at the time. And it was just kind of like this perfect moment of being able to recreate. these vintage denim pieces and dress clients in them at the same time. This was still in the day where magazines were how people digested fashion. So we got a lot of editorials and kind of a lot of press. And overnight, the Kern Elliott was born. That was our first kind of foray into product.

• Speaker #0

  And Kern Elliott, just to be clear, it's a combination of your last names.

• Speaker #3

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  Very creative.

• Speaker #2

  That was a very game time decision. You know, the development of that brand and how it came to life. It was not the common story of two business school graduates with a great business plan, insert product X. It was definitely born from what we saw was missing. It was definitely almost like our own version of business school of, well, how do we do this? Or how do we figure out how to make this happen? We did not expect it to become the brand it was overnight. It was not. expected. It really was such a genuine and authentic expression of our worldview and of what we saw as a need for our own lives, our own clients and the market as a whole. And there was a lot of naysayers in the beginning. And I can laugh because a lot of people that came to see us at market or other Denny manufacturers were side-eyeing like, who's buying that? And that is so unusual for what was happening. And it... It feels really nice looking back to think of how much we didn't know the business, how much we didn't set out to do what we did and how it came to life so beautifully.

• Speaker #0

  How did you really build this brand when you were coming at it from a stylist point of view, which is great because you had a very strong focus on what the concept should look like, who you wanted to appeal to, but understanding things like sourcing and e-commerce and stores. How about retail in general? Like what the hell did you guys know? And how did you get there? Because within a four year period, you actually created an exit for yourself, but you jumped in with just great taste.

• Speaker #3

  Yeah. I mean, I think it's, first of all, e-commerce did not exist at the time, which so, which is hard.

• Speaker #0

  Well, that's helpful.

• Speaker #3

  That was helpful. I mean, it was a wholesale business. Again, you know, I think A single category brand at that time was a really unique, and a wholesale brand was a really unique moment in time. And so, again, just creating things off of archival vintage collection, season after season. As stylists, we were experts in fit. You know, we had sat through thousands of fittings with different body types through the years. And I think the combination of those two things and just having a really, really strong brand filter in every touchpoint for the consumer. really made it something that everyone could relate to and everyone felt really great. Everyone loves a pair of jeans, right? I mean, at the end of the day, you put on a pair of jeans that you love and is soft and vintage or fits well, your day is made. So I think we just, right time, right place, we didn't know what we were doing. And so I think that that made us unique. I think two women in that industry, it was very rare. We call those business school for us, you know, in terms of learning the industry and learning how to. balance creativity in your place.

• Speaker #0

  I guess so. But Emily, if you were talking to two women or two designers, two people with a great point of view that were going to start a business today, what is it that you wish you had when you started Current Elliott? Or maybe was it the first hire that you put in place? when you started The Great, clearly there were people that helped you on this journey to take Carnelli from a startup to a success and an exit. Who would you hire first? Who were the key hires to help you bring your product to fruition?

• Speaker #2

  Well, it's a good question and it's really complicated and layered. I mean, when we started this project, we were consulting with a bigger group that was manufacturing. I think we were given a situation where a lot of the business sort of structure was there for us. So what we were able to do off the bat was quite unusual. I think what we learned through that process was, you know, our outside perspective, our unique perspective, our way to disrupt in that business was really special. And we didn't get the opportunity to sort of own it outright, to be in control of how we manufactured, how we rolled things out, how things worked from a back end perspective. And that was really important learning for us. And I wouldn't take it. back. I think that being able to partner with people who were able to help us build that business and manufacture that business taught us what we needed to learn to be able to do it on our own when we launched The Great. I think a lot of people have believed in us then and believed in us now. But I think what we learned, and just to segue to how we've translated that to The Great, was we needed to hire the people around us that do the things that we don't do, but we don't necessarily need to partner with them. There was an element of needing to create a team, but also lead the charge. And The Great was our first opportunity to actually build out the business, the business that we wanted to build, this culture that we wanted to build, the environment that we wanted to build, and the manufacturing ethics that meant something to us. So the first hire... It's different for everyone. And I mean, you interview a lot of incredible founders and business people, and you need to hire the person that complements your own skill set. And I think where Merit and I are strong is in our creative vision and our ability to rally and excite our teams to execute on really beautiful and interesting product and marketing initiatives. But from the business and operations and... sort of some of the strategic growth, like we absolutely need counterpoints. And so for us, our very first hire for the great that was really able to help trans, you know, allow the business to grow was head of operations and that that operational sort of Swiss army knife concept for us was really, really important and keeping the lights on and the day to day and helping us grow. That was for us the perfect counterpoint.

• Speaker #0

  You launched The Great a couple of years after your exit. You successfully exited Current Elliott. The Great, why the name? What's in the name? Help me understand how you selected that.

• Speaker #2

  All right. Well, a little back, we've always had a very hedged business. I mean, we also have Emily and Merritt, who has licensing. We've been 10 years ongoing with Williams-Sonoma. So we have a few other businesses as well. I think when it came, we also wrote a book with Rizzoli after we left Current Elliott and exited, and we kind of were able to... flex some different muscles and try on some different projects. When it came to the great, it was something that we'd been working on for a really long time. I think that the concept of taking what we'd learned on a pure play denim brand and being able to sort of round it out with the push and pull of a multi-category brand really, really was more closely aligned with our stylist vision. So it was something that was really important to us to be able to build out something that had multi-category. The name The Great comes from this idea that we were kind of standing on the edge of the next great thing. And oftentimes the words The Great are used in the beginning of a title or the end of a title of something with significance. And for us, this idea of doing this on our own to create something from the ground up. And to try it in a new way felt like the great moment for us. So that's where the name came from.

• Speaker #0

  And your brand today, I assume it builds on some of the ethos you created with Karin Elliott, denim being a very important part of the brand. Merit, as you alluded to earlier, fit. I mean, you can't win in women's denim without great fit. But if you have great fit, you will win like forever. Because once you get that right, she'll never leave you. Tell me about the product extension. of the great, and also who she is that's shopping the store?

• Speaker #3

  Sure. I mean, I think the greatest filter for our brand is it's a casual point of view. So it's casual, whether you're lounging at home or you're going to a party, what is the effortless, casual filter on your wardrobing? And then through a vintage filter, everything has a story. Everything is nostalgic. Everything has details that are authentic. So I think, you know, the possibilities are endless there. You know, we say a good wardrobe starts with a great t-shirt. We have a huge knits business made here in Los Angeles, which is a rare and amazing triumph, as you can imagine. But our t-shirts are fit perfectly, or it's the perfect anti-fit, I should say. Everything is worn and washed by hand. Everything has detailing, like a perfect vintage t-shirt or vintage sweatshirt. So everything has kind of like a low element to it, you know, something that's like you've had it forever. Something that feels familiar, perhaps it was passed down. So we started there. We started with the t-shirt, honestly. And we're drawn to the same things over and over again. A perfect wash flannel, the perfect pair of overalls from the thirties, a menswear trouser from the forties, silk camisoles from the twenties. There are certain things that we are drawn to and we've been drawn to since we were vintage shopping together when we were 18 years old. And the iterations of those and the storytelling behind them has really given birth to a lot of product and product categories within the great. So from our primary collection that we do seasonally to our knits expression, which is again, head to toe sweats in every fabrication to cashmere. We then extended to the great swim, which goes through those filters as well. And the great sleep, which is our kind of restful sleep collection. And then last year we launched the great outdoors, which is the kind of outdoors expression. It's all through again through the vintage casual filter. but in fitted proportions that reflect our sensibility.

• Speaker #0

  When you look at brands or designers for inspiration, when you're not inspiring yourselves, who do you draw on? Who's out there that you just, like the store you love to shop, the city you love to shop, the part of the city you like to shop, where do you go for inspiration?

• Speaker #2

  It's a great question. I mean, we laugh that sometimes you can find inspiration on the... cereal aisle at the grocery store by some combination of color. I mean, I think it could be as simple as being on a road trip and stopping at a gas station to like being at the Paris flea markets. We are really inspired by vintage. And I think that's been something that we've really leaned on since day one. But I mean, I think we're also really inspired by founder-led businesses that you're on a journey with the founder and you're on a journey with the brand, that the brand consistently evolves. and meets their customer and delights their customers season over season and that changes and as a woman who's you know grown from being young adult in the industry all the way up to now having kids and multiple businesses i think that i meet fashion in different ways for different places and different reasons i think our goal with the great has been to meet her in a lot of different ways and through the same filter that is meant to delight her and meant to feel somewhat familiar, classic enough and cool enough and relaxed enough that she doesn't feel like she's trying too hard, but that could be for something you're wearing at home or something that you're wearing to a party. And I think when we look at other businesses and founder friends and other places that we get inspired by, it's people that are authentically moving forward through their core aesthetic and belief, but consistently evolving.

• Speaker #0

  It's amazing. You've built in, I guess, how many years has... the great now been in business.

• Speaker #2

  Like nine years.

• Speaker #3

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Nine years. So just over 50 million in revenue. And it's interesting, your focus is not only online, but you have stores and you also have some select wholesale distribution. When you take a look at the pie today, what percent roughly would be in each area from online to stores, or we can call that direct to consumer versus wholesale?

• Speaker #2

  I mean, we're about a third, a third, a third at this point, although our direct is growing and we're about to open our eighth store next week. So as our stores expand and our online business grows, it's starting to, that side of the business, the direct business is starting to outweigh the wholesale business. But when we started the great, it was quite unpopular to have wholesale. And there was such a focus on eliminating that piece of a business plan. And for us, it was. absolutely necessary and absolutely such an important part of how we believe we should grow a business and how we meet customers all over and at different places that she's shopping. So while our direct business is growing quickly, we really value our wholesale business and really value those partners and how they're able to shine a light on our brand and places that we aren't able. So, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  I think it's great that you... are leaning into all three. Obviously, D2C will be bigger, as you said, but I think it's so important that brands really look at the wholesale channel as a possibility, not a problem. And you do often hear many companies that start are very focused on D2C. and don't realize the importance of getting product in front of the customer wherever she is, which you can't easily do opening your own stores. It's expensive. But with the right distribution channel through wholesale, you can get in front of your customer with your product, and you can do it quite profitably as well. At the end of the day, when you take a look at selling product directly, though at lower margin, to a wholesale customer, the net margins can come out to be pretty close to the same from what I've seen.

• Speaker #2

  Oh, definitely. And I mean, it's one of those things, though, that you have to decide early on in the lifecycle of the business. I mean, to try to reverse engineer on everything after you've launched as a DTC brand to try to, you know, look at pricing, etc., to pull back into wholesale is really challenging for a lot of people. So I think it's an important decision to make off the bat.

• Speaker #0

  To further grow the brand, hype the brand, introduce the brand, you've done a couple of collaborations. Talk to us a little bit about those. what the future has for collaborations with The Great?

• Speaker #3

  Sure. We've certainly done a lot of collaborations in our career. And so we've had a lot of different experiences. But I think when it came to The Great, leaning on things that felt authentic to our customer and ourselves, and were part of our history and how we used to style ourselves and our clients. And then we continued to outfit our own The Great Girl. And these pieces led us to a few collaborations that we're really proud of. First, Eddie Bauer. Of course, we grew up wearing Eddie Bauer jackets, our dads hanging on by the hook by the door, mom's clogs, you know, that type of thing. We have a love affair with old American heritage companies. And I think at the time we were dabbling in outerwear in the great, it was part of our collection, but we really wanted to partner with people that were experts. So we dove into their archives and a lot of their actually men's archives as well, inspired us and kind of applied print and pattern in proportion. And we had four seasons with them so that we hit every climate and outdoor occasion for the year. And that was an incredible experience. I think that we learned a lot from each other and really gave us the confidence to launch the great outdoors on our own with all the right technical details and materials. So that was our first four-way Birkenstock. We've been wearing Birkenstock since we were kids in Northern California. I think we both own our original pairs. They're quite beat up.

• Speaker #0

  And they're still available on your site, right? You can still buy the Birkenstocks.

• Speaker #3

  Yeah. So I think that Birkenstock recognized how much we use them in our styling and in our life and also carries the same sort of ethos in casual, effortless, comfortable, classic, never goes out of style pieces. And we just love some of the classic fits, the Arizona and the Boston. And then we use some of our artisans here in Los Angeles to customize. them. So we did four seasons with them as well. We just launched our last one and they're limited edition. So they go fast and they're conversation starters for sure.

• Speaker #0

  Did you do that deal with my friend, David Cahan?

• Speaker #2

  Yes. Love him.

• Speaker #3

  The best.

• Speaker #0

  Is he the best? David, we're singing your praises here. I've kind of get him on the podcast. He's so busy. I mean, it's hard. He's running to the bank every day.

• Speaker #2

  I mean, he was instrumental in this conversation. And a lot of these collaborations come about from just longstanding conversations and friendships that we've built. And he was a big supporter of The Great. He really liked what we were doing and saw synergy. So he really was the one who helped put this whole thing together.

• Speaker #3

  Yes. Kudos to him. He's the best.

• Speaker #0

  That's cool. And you've done Pottery Barn as well?

• Speaker #2

  So for Under The Great, we also launched Red Wing, which again, heritage brand. Pottery Barn came about. We've been collaborating for 10 plus years. I think we started a long time ago with Kate Spade as one of their first collaborations. And at Williams-Sonoma Group was one of the first collaborations as well going on 10 years. So I think that the concept of collaboration has been really important to us and it continues to be. I think when there are people that have real expertise in how they create things, how they manufacture, which all of our partners have. It's wonderful to be able to put your spin on things or to be able to add some fun flavor to something that's so heritage to the fabric of fashion or home in America. So I think we've been really careful about who we've been able to partner with as being sort of, you know, leaders in their field or leaders in their category. And I think that's something we want to continue to explore.

• Speaker #0

  I'm going to put you both on the spot. So if there's a collaboration you could do with anyone out there, who would you pick?

• Speaker #1

  Oh, that's easy. Converse, Chuck Taylor, All Stars.

• Speaker #0

  All right. Well, let's make it happen. I'll make a call later. I got people like John Tappan. He's at Converse. He's in charge of product development. We'll go on after the call. We'll figure that out.

• Speaker #1

  I mean, my collection of Made in USA Converse is enormous. I think that is by far... my number one. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Okay.

• Speaker #1

  There's a lot. There's a long list. So after this, let's go through it.

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. Let's talk a little bit more about marketing. What are some of the things that are working for the brand today? There's so much out there, hard to know exactly where to spend the money, but where are you spending money that you're finding a return?

• Speaker #2

  I mean, collaborations is one of them too. We're able to meet their customer. and introduce them to the brand. So that's really through product. So that's been a really great form of customer acquisition. I think catalog has been really strong for us. I think people open their mail and I think we're proud of our imagery and the storytelling behind the brand. Getting people into our own retail stores has been really important because you walk in our worlds, you see all the components, the styling, the texture, the quality of the product. That's been a great marketing tool for us as well. We don't... spend a lot of money on marketing because we don't have outside funding. So we don't have funny money. So we really just count on people wearing our clothes and loving our clothes and wearing it well and word of mouth marketing, which is the long game. But really the best marketing we have are people, you know, a professional mom who's dropping off her daughter before a work meeting and she's wearing a great outfit and a friend says, what are you wearing? That's the great, I mean, that is a hundred percent our customer. Because I think that's just kind of the sense of discovery that people have. It's not in your face. We're not on billboards. We're not creating a fake narrative on Instagram. It is real life women wearing our clothes, being their best selves. That's our marketing, really.

• Speaker #0

  Who are you most excited about that you know of who's wearing your clothes, that's posing on Instagram or talking on TikTok? Who would we know that's out there wearing the great?

• Speaker #1

  I mean, we're so lucky because we've been in this industry, you know, living in Los Angeles, styling. Our community here is, you know, a lot of successful, well-known professional women, people in the industry. I mean, we're extremely lucky to be in the position we are. And we were with Cornelia and we have been with all of our projects. But we have some very loyal brand fans that are beloved, like from Reese Witherspoon to Rachel Bilson to just great friends. Yeah, just people that have really supported us. supported us from the beginning and continue to authentically wear the brand and post the brand and support the brand. And the list goes on from well-known to just well-known in their circles. We're just grateful that people come to the store, shop the store, like what we're doing. I mean, that's what we do every day. We get up and try to delight our customer sincerely from her experience in our stores to what we create. And when somebody that you admire is participating in what you're doing, it's just been really special.

• Speaker #0

  As you think about the brand and appealing, certainly to your core customer, how do you grow that? How do you expand? I see you're dabbling with guys. You've got some t-shirts out there. It doesn't look like jeans yet. You're appealing to the little ones. You've got a small, no pun intended, offering. And I think you're dabbling also in the home space, which obviously ties very much to your brand, to your lifestyle. What do you see as the next growth segment? Not that you're, not that the core... business isn't going to grow as it has grown over the years, but the extension of the grape.

• Speaker #2

  You know, it's funny. We just were talking, Emily and I were just being told when we took a road trip to Northern California, and we're just talking about kind of goals for 2025. And we were driving up to do a dinner and a store event with Birkenstock in celebration of the last lunch. And we just get so juiced by meeting people in the community who love the brand or are learning about the brand. And there's no question that those concentric circles start, you know, like wider and wider and wider. And we love being in the center of them, evangelizing the brand, sharing the brand. And I think that for 2025, I think we authentically want to meet a lot of different communities of women that we think will love the brand that just don't have as much access to it as people on the coast do. A heavy California brand in New York or parts of New York. I wouldn't even say entirely New York. I think there's a whole bunch of women. who love the brand or want to know more about the brand in the middle of America. And we are planning on meeting them and celebrating them and showing the brand to them. And I think it's kind of more of a grassroots way because I think we're just trying to meet women where they are nowadays. They don't want to be hit over the head and told things. They want to discover and participate in dressing themselves and feeling good and knowing the founders and understanding why we're making things and what they're born of. So I think we're going to kind of hit the road into some of our markets that we love. And we're interested in Nashville. There's parts of Florida. There's parts of in Chicago. I think we have a great customer and I think we're looking to kind of hang out with those people. Honestly,

• Speaker #1

  it's fun to be analog girls in a digital world. I mean, we really participate in the digital piece the way we need to. as a lot of our founder community talks about, like it's a difficult environment. You know, it's getting more and more expensive for digital. And I think there's something real about being real and being in real life and talking to people, popping up, being in an environment where you get to touch and feel clothes and have conversations and try things on for yourself. I mean, that's certainly why we started the brand and how we bonded over fashion to begin with. So the idea of getting people out and interacting with the clothes, interacting with other people, that feels really right right now.

• Speaker #0

  When appealing to your customer, for those who aren't that familiar with the great, the great would hang where in Nordstrom? Who would be other brands around that I might be shopping for? And I discover the great.

• Speaker #1

  I know it's tricky. You know, when it comes to wholesale, it's been interesting because we don't exactly fit the mold. We kind of have a mix of things and the mix is what makes it so special that maybe you're wearing a beat up jean with sort of a fancier shirt. or a beat up sweatshirt with a really nice skirt. Like the mix is really important to us, which allows us to sit in a lot of different places, which has been a strength of the brand. You know, I think we have a lot of advanced contemporary brands that we sit next to oftentimes. People that we love from Neely Lotan to Cee to Claire Vivier to a lot of other advanced contemporary brands that we wear and love so many to name. But, you know, I think it's one of those things where we could very easily live in a denim department with a certain edit of the collection, just as well as you could live in a lounge or the sleep department with our sleep collection, as you could in more of the designer area where you're seeing sort of the higher leather and, you know, coating and other things. So when you get to walk into one of our own stores or more of an environment, you really get to see the experience of almost like being in a. perfectly curated vintage store and how you get to have fun playing with how to mix things and proportion, where it's a little more difficult in a wholesale environment because you're seeing such a limited selection. But it does allow a buyer and a retailer to sort of pick their poison when it comes to how they want to engage with the brand.

• Speaker #0

  I'd be remiss not to ask how two really good friends can be co-CEOs, co-creative, co-design, co-habitate. co-exist. How does it happen? How can you do that? And who does what? Who gets to do different? How does it work?

• Speaker #1

  I'll let Merit answer, but before I do, I just want to say thank you for not asking us how often we fight because that is like the number one question we get.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, I know. You don't ever fight.

• Speaker #1

  We don't.

• Speaker #0

  We agree on everything.

• Speaker #2

  We really don't. True. I feel like that hasn't been asked in a while. Maybe people learn that that's not like you don't ask people that anymore. First of all, it is our... the thing we're most proud of. All the brands we've built and the trends we started and whatnot. The one thing that we hope our legacy is, is that two best friends and two women best friends can create great things and empower people. And we have a lot of employees here who are responsible for their livelihood. I mean, together we do that and it ain't easy. How we work together. The only way I can describe it is on Thanksgiving day and you're in the kitchen with your spouse or your child or your, whoever's cooking with you. And you just have this kind of rhythm in the kitchen. Like one person is good, better at chopping vegetables. And they just kind of then hand the bowl over and the person washes it. You know, they're washing it. And the other one's wiping down the counter. And the other one is, you know, better at the skillet. And it's kind of like after a while, you're not checking in every minute. Like, are you good at sauteing or am I better at sauteing? You just kind of know. And I think we've worked together for so long that we're able to kind of create a delicious meal without saying anything, but also have this sort of respect for ourselves and each other that we can say like. I can't cook today. I actually can do nothing but hold the towel for you. And can you make the meal? And I think that that is the beauty of having a partner that you respect and love and that you have this responsibility with. And I think when you go in with that sort of attitude, every day is a joy. You're just like, let's create something good together, but know that I can be my best self or not my best self, and we're still going to make something great together.

• Speaker #0

  the question may be this way, though I understand that at a high level, but Emily, if there is a meeting that you would want to go to that Merritt would not, what does that meeting look like?

• Speaker #1

  Oh, you'd have to ask the people that work for us. No, I think it's that happens all the time. You know, there are places where I feel really excited to lead. And there are places that I don't necessarily feel excited to lead that I'm there to lead. This business is very hard. And I think anyone listening to, you know, retail who understands this business, it's a very hard business. And it's constantly changing and evolving. And life is really hard. And it's constantly changing and evolving. You know, we have children, we've had loss, grief, all kinds of things come up through our lives. And there are times when I think I've been the most inspired I've ever been and come in with just vision. And there's been times where I can barely hold my head up. And I think the idea that we have each other to support has been just such a tremendous gift. I mean, I love leading a meeting. I feel completely confident leading a meeting. And I also know that if I need to take on an emergency project or something that Merit can lead the meeting just as well. I think the strength of not having a deep divide where one person does marketing and one person does design, we're very aware of the bigger picture. And it's been something that we've actually talked a lot about wanting everybody on our teams to understand the bigger picture. And the best way to be creative is to really understand the business and to understand the parameters of your creativity. And I think what we've learned is for our, you know, more business oriented executives to understand enough about the creative and the creative executives to understand enough about the business that that synergy is extremely important. So I feel. good about the idea that we have our hands in a lot of pots and that we're leading from, you know, full transparency and understanding all sides of the business. It's helpful that we're not siloed. And I think we've run our whole business that way for better or worse. And it's, there's a lot of transparency. I think that really helps give context to everybody and allows them to grow as individuals as well.

• Speaker #0

  So if I'm working for you, who is it easier to get approval on a style from? Oh,

• Speaker #1

  here we go. Definitely not me.

• Speaker #2

  We're on a what?

• Speaker #0

  The easiest to get approval on a style from, a new style. Would I go to Merit or would I go to Emily?

• Speaker #2

  I mean, honestly, that's a good question. Depends on the day. I would say Emily is a really excellent merchant. So I'm going to say like when she can swoop back and look at a collection as a whole, she's really great. I don't know. We're both really specific on fit. actually has to fit both of us and other people for it to pass go. I don't know. I think we both have our things that are hard nos and easy yeses, right?

• Speaker #1

  That's true. That's true.

• Speaker #0

  I'm just trying to figure it out. I'm trying, because if you share this with your team, they go, okay, now let's go to Emily. She's the easy one, but they know who you are and what to get, how to get things approved, I assume.

• Speaker #1

  Definitely. I mean, we're very meticulous though. We are. I mean, there's a lot of attention to detail and there is high expectations. And I think that's really helped us in our career.

• Speaker #0

  What about technology? Where do you guys come down on technology? It's like a thing out there. They've got AI. They've got all this stuff going on. It's all considered smart tech. Where are you on the technology spectrum?

• Speaker #1

  Well, I have my record player going in the back. So there we go. Look, I think it's not acceptable not to be on the journey and to understand and to learn. And I think. we absolutely need to know what's going on and need to understand the capabilities that are coming, where we want to use it, where we don't. I think the beauty of what we do is it's sort of old fashioned. Like we put a lot of care into what we create, how we create it, where we create it. There's a lot of hands on things that I wouldn't want to rely on AI for, for example. There's a beauty in the process. And does that mean that it'll never be integrated into our business? No. I think we're very open-minded, but I would sincerely call us analog girls in a digital world. We know and we participate, but we really love the old style of doing business, picking up the phone, talking to people, getting in a room together, touching and feeling. I think there's something really special about that. And even as the whole world is maybe shifting into something more computerized, I think it'll become even more novel and even more special to be real people doing real things.

• Speaker #0

  Well, after this call, I'm going to test your openness to newness and technology. There is a platform that I work with. It's called Raspberry AI, and it's for designers.

• Speaker #1

  Oh.

• Speaker #0

  And it can actually upload a line drawing or upload an image and allow you real time to change the silhouette, the color, the print, the trim, and see it even on a model. So it doesn't replace anyone, but it does like. replace a designer's bike with a car. So you can see the entire city versus just the neighborhood. And I find that really interesting because it still needs the creative to input, to tell it, what would you like to see? And I think it's fascinating how it's already, the technology is impacting the design area, which is usually very, is held very close to the chest, right? No one wants to give up that touch, the creative, which doesn't sound like it can really be held in a true way with technology. because it's almost outside the scope of what you feel inside. But seeing what these tools can do and how they can really improve product and bring product to fruition, I find it really rather fascinating.

• Speaker #1

  That's super interesting. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. But we'll talk about that one later. Let's conclude with rapid fire. So I'm going to ask each of you the same question, but I'll reverse the order to give the other person a chance to think about what a better answer might be. It's only fair.

• Speaker #1

  Oh!

• Speaker #0

  Okay. So first question, favorite brand to put on a client besides the great?

• Speaker #1

  Vintage.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. I would just further that and say vintage Ralph Lauren, Levi's, Lee Wrangler.

• Speaker #0

  You guys have, there's a whole double RL vibe that I kind of, just sort of like, because I know where those guys used to shop and you probably find them in the same places, but I get that whole vintage and love it. Okay.

• Speaker #1

  I mean, that's where we came from, right? The Northern California, the Gap, the Ralph Lauren, the Wrangler.

• Speaker #0

  Favorite place to travel, Merit?

• Speaker #2

  Oh, Idaho. I love the landscape.

• Speaker #0

  Emily?

• Speaker #1

  A road trip to somewhere towards like Sedona, Santa Fe. Just like a great road trip.

• Speaker #0

  So you guys are like, you're in this country, right? There's no trips out to Paris or St. Barts or just you're like in, you're here.

• Speaker #2

  We're here. There's a lot of beautiful landscapes here. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. I'm going to give you my wife's number right after the call. Let's talk about some of those places to go. Because I think I once said, oh, it would be so great to do like get an RV and go to the Grand Canyon. I think she said something like your next wife will like that. So yeah, I'm going to have you call her. Okay. Emily, person you'd most like to meet.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, wow.

• Speaker #0

  Dead or alive. How about that? I'll open it up just for you.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. Bob Dylan.

• Speaker #0

  All right, Merit, what do you got?

• Speaker #2

  Honestly, I'm just going with Michelle Obama, who evidently is a fan of The Great, by the way, I will add. But I'd love to take her to dinner.

• Speaker #0

  Merit's favorite streamed TV show?

• Speaker #2

  Is it Cake? Yeah, it's a baking show, and I watch it with my kids. And honestly, it has nothing to do with reality. So I really enjoy we watch that.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. I'm not going to mock that. That's cool. Emily, what do you got? Favorite show?

• Speaker #1

  Right now, Shrinking.

• Speaker #0

  So good.

• Speaker #1

  I love it.

• Speaker #0

  It's really funny.

• Speaker #1

  It's so wonderful. There's so many good shows and I'm very particular. I don't like anything scary or overly sad, but Shrinking ticks all the boxes.

• Speaker #0

  I think Shrinking is like a feel good show. It's great. I love that. Last question. Emily, if you weren't running The Great or styling clients, What would you be doing?

• Speaker #1

  Ooh, one of two things or both. I think I would love to do some kind of fun consumer goods projects, like some other brand building on things outside of fashion. And also I'd love to be in the garden, gardening and getting my hands dirty and doing something with the earth.

• Speaker #0

  I'm a landscape freak. I love landscape. Uh,

• Speaker #1

  love.

• Speaker #0

  Me too. I'd be a landscaper. Merit, what would you be doing?

• Speaker #2

  I agree with Emily. Like there's so many brands I'd like to build.

• Speaker #0

  Of course you do.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah. I mean, so we're doing that during the day, but on a free time, I think I would be like teaching scuba diving in the ocean.

• Speaker #0

  Awesome.

• Speaker #2

  I'd be floating somewhere, but getting paid for it. I don't know.

• Speaker #0

  And with that, we'll land this flight of the Retail Pilot. Emily Merritt, thank you so much for joining me.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you so much.

• Speaker #2

  That was fun. Thank you so much.

• Speaker #0

  Thanks for tuning in to this week's flight of the Retail Pilot. And please. Give us a review on your favorite podcast platform.