Transcription

• Speaker #0

  What if you could break through your creative blocks and achieve more than you ever imagined? How can structure, when it comes to your creativity, actually free you? Today's guest brings insights on pushing artistic boundaries, overcoming self-doubt, and finding inspiration in unexpected places. Welcome to Unleash Your Inner Creative with Lauren LaGrasso. I'm Lauren LaGrasso. I'm a Webby Award-winning podcast host and producer, singer-songwriter, public speaker, and creative coach. This show sits at the intersection of creativity, mental health, self-development, and spirituality, and it is meant to give you tools to love, trust, and know yourself enough to claim your right to creativity and pursue whatever it is that's on your heart. Before we get into the podcast, I do want to remind you that Unleash is nominated for a Webby Award. It would mean so much to me if you take two minutes, it literally takes under two minutes, to go and vote for Unleash in the creativity and marketing category. You can find the link to vote in the show notes or on my Instagram profile, either for Unleash. or for Lauren LaGrasso. Okay, now to the guest. Her stage name is Mona Lisa, but her real name is Maria. And today, I'll call her both throughout the interview. Mona Lisa is a multifaceted artist known for her immersive approach to music, storytelling, and world building. She's gained recognition with her music, getting featured on curated dark romance and fantasy playlists, headlining at the Old Church in London, and earning five-star reviews for her audiovisual performances at the Edinburgh Fringe. In 2024, she embarked on the transformative journey of writing 100 songs within the year, an ambitious challenge that sparked deep conversations around the impact of high-volume creative output on inspiration, discipline, and artistry. I wanted to have Mona Lisa on the podcast because her journey of writing 100 songs within a year offers a unique perspective on the transformative power of high-volume creative output and why having structure within creativity can actually help free you. She is also a part of the Unleashed community and a longtime listener of the show. I really love sharing her story and I want to start sharing the stories of listeners in the future because it's just so special to hear your perspective when it comes to creativity. I think you'll really love it because she is part of this community. From today's chat, you'll learn why balancing structure with spontaneity is essential, the key to overcoming self-doubt and perfectionism in your creative process, what happens to unreleased creative work, the transformative power of sustained artistic commitment, and much more. Okay, now here she is, Mona Lisa, aka Maria. Okay, Maria, aka Mona Lisa, I am so excited to be here with you. You've been a longtime listener and supporter of Unleash Your Inner Creative, and you are an incredible creative and artist yourself. So thank you for being on the show and sharing about this really cool creative challenge you did.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you so much for having me. It's honestly been on my list, I think, since at least 22. To get the chance to speak to you on this podcast, I'm really a big, big fan. I think what you're doing is absolutely amazing. I'm really privileged to have a chance to contribute in this way. So thank you.

• Speaker #0

  Aw. Well, it's really exciting to get to talk to someone from my own community. And I just love what you did. I found it really inspiring. So you reached out to me and told me about the 100 songs in a year challenge you did where in 365 days you wrote 100 songs. And you did this because you wanted to get back into your creative essence, into your flow. You had been doing a lot of projects for other people and wanted to get back to your creative center and your creative home. And you reached out and pitched this idea and said this might be something that could help other creatives who are feeling blocked, who are feeling like. They're not going after their creativity in the way that they once did because they're either working or they're working on other people's projects. So tell me about this 100 song challenge. Tell me the full story.

• Speaker #1

  Well, throughout 2023, I was working on a lot of still creative, but more commission based projects. So a lot of work for other people. And I was feeling a little bit like, well, it was at the back of my mind that maybe I hadn't given enough attention to, you know. my own muse and the sort of Mona Lisa universe that I'm developing. And I have a friend and also a longtime musical collaborator in Los Angeles. He's called Safro. And I remember, I think it was in December 23, we were just having a little catch up on the phone. And somehow I just mentioned that I want to be like a little bit more creative. I don't feel fully in my creative essence right now. And somehow just in the spur of the moment, he came up with this idea. I think he asked me like, okay so how many songs do you want to write next year like just and i was like i don't know i don't know he was like a hundred But I was like, oh, you know, like when something sounds completely crazy in the moment, but you're also like, there's something kind of calling me towards this idea. And I feel like in many situations in my life, it was following that little spark, even if it was, you know, kind of illogical and crazy that led me to some interesting results. So basically on that phone call, we committed to do the challenge together. So in 2024, I would do. write my 100 songs, he would write his 100 songs, and we would also be each other's accountability partners. So, you know, exchanging demos, and we set up certain frameworks for ourselves to make sure that we got this, you know, mammoth rolling, because that's what 100 songs.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. What was the journey like? Were there any times you wanted to stop? And how did you keep going through those?

• Speaker #1

  There were moments when I wanted to stop for sure. And I feel that it was actually Quite critical to keep going, particularly in those moments, because I feel like when you overcome that resistance, it's like a new layer opens itself up. There were several situations. One of them was that in 2024, I also had kind of a heavy live performance schedule as well, or in particular, two big shows. Last year, all my shows were in churches. I don't know why,

• Speaker #0

  but it was so cool.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I loved it. I really like churches were my theme. And it took a lot of energy to prepare for those shows. and at a certain point, I was like, okay, I'm just not managing to combine the two things as efficiently as I could. And I feel like, you know, in these particular two months, I need to be concentrating on the shows rather than the songs. And it didn't work out so well with my, you know, accountability partner, Safro, because he was actually having a very productive time with the challenge while I had to sort of refocus on the show. So we had, you know, a little bit of like a disconnect in that moment but I also realized that sometimes It's like you need to find fluidity within the framework, too. I feel like a framework enables creativity, but it's like sometimes you need to be fluid within the framework. Does that make sense?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, for sure. For me, rigidity never works. I can do things like this and have structure. But if I'm like militant with myself, it totally stifles my creativity. But there's so many people out there who are, you know, multi-passionate creatives or who are juggling multiple creative projects. How did you know that you... basically had to put this aside and on hold for those two months to go toward your live show. And looking back on it, was that the right call?

• Speaker #1

  The live show was very all-consuming. And I felt like it kind of was the year of live work for me. So in that moment, it really mattered to me to kind of gather my community together in person and give them this live experience. It was like a soul calling. And I realized that if I didn't and put myself into it completely for two, three months. it also wouldn't translate completely for the people. And I love community building. And for me, live performance is one of the main sort of avenues for creative community building. So I just, that was how I made the decision. And I also sort of had to, you know, give myself permission to have creative multi-focus too, because sometimes you can get attached to these ideas that, oh, if I don't give myself 100%, you know, to the songwriting this year, then I'm not going to achieve 100% in the songwriting. But no, you can also, you know. give yourself to live performance and to songwriting. You can be multiple things at once, I think. Sometimes you just have to give yourself the permission. And I also told myself that, the songwriting challenge was there all year. The shows were only there in August and September, so I could always come back to the songs and complete them in a way that worked for me, as opposed to the way that was initially sort of laid out. I think that was quite a pivotal moment. I didn't exactly put it on hold, but I stopped being as productive for a little while. But that productivity came back.

• Speaker #0

  Totally. I think it's a really good example for anyone listening of when they have multiple projects or multiple passions, tuning into yourself and asking, what are my priorities? And then going toward those until that thing is through the finish line. And then you can come back to the thing you have a little bit more latitude or a little bit more time with. It doesn't mean that you're only doing that one creative priority, but that's your focus. It's okay to have seasons where your focus shifts. I do want to go to when you were actually doing the challenge. Within the challenge, you did these mini monthly challenges. What did these look like and how did they help you stay on track with the songwriting? The reason I want to point this out, for you listening, I think that they are really good examples of how we can create containers for ourselves to give ourselves flexibility to then flow.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, exactly. Absolutely. And yeah, the theme of the frameworks and the flexibility is so interesting to me. So perhaps I'll start with when I made my trip to LA. last year. This was in May. My friend Safro, he lives in LA. And one of the really sort of creative ways we found to create a little framework for ourselves, even while I was traveling, was we went on a hike. And while we were on the hike, we started collecting words in our phones. So, you know, things that we saw on the hike, like birds and fences and people and just details that stood out to us. So we collected this, you know, huge collection of words. And then I don't remember now I think it was either in that same month where we started submitting three mini poems a day to each other. And then the other person would look at that poem and like, say, I'm looking at, you know, Sapporo's poem, then I would pick out my favorite lines and send it back to him. And so we ended up with, you know, eventually 100 mini poems. Then the following month, those started turning into lyrics. Oh, I forgot one detail. Before we went into the lyrics, we actually created song maps. There's a book about this, it's called Song Maps, and it's sort of a way to map out how a lyric will look like. So I remember there was one month where we had 100 song maps, the next month we had 100 lyrics already. There was another month where we would send each other three sort of just vocal chorus ideas a day and also give each other feedback. So we created these little mini challenges where by the end, the 100 songs actually came together pretty organically because we already had all the material.

• Speaker #0

  Wow. So I didn't realize that. So you kind of did these mini challenges, collected, you were like creative excavators, you were like collecting all of the stuff from inspiration and nature, from going back and forth with poems. And then at the end of it, you transform those things into songs.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  Wow, I didn't realize that. That's a really interesting method. So for somebody listening who's feeling blocked creatively or wants more creative energy, it sounds like a few steps would be like... observe what's around you and just start writing it down without any specific intention of what you're going to do with it. Just interesting things around you. For like me, I'm looking outside right now. I see a pine tree, a chimney. I see a telephone line. So writing those kinds of words down and then having a creative partner that you can go back and forth with and start submitting little mini snippets of something, whether it's writing a poem, songs, and then from there going ahead and creating your final project.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, exactly.

• Speaker #0

  That's cool.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. The reason I really loved it is that it gets you to trust what's there for you. Because I also find that when you embark on a challenge like this and you sort of say yes to me, what felt like a bit of an invitation from the universe, you know, I said yes. So part of that process then was to trust what showed up as opposed to sort of trying to construct it. It's like, well, take what's already here, right?

• Speaker #0

  Did you ever struggle with that trust?

• Speaker #1

  Yes. Yes. This always comes up in creativity, doesn't it? Yes. Especially because I don't know if you have this experience as well. But sometimes you turn up, you know, to the studio to write and the thing just lands from the heavens and like 20 minutes and other times you're sitting with the song for like a year and it still doesn't feel right.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So tell me about that. I'm curious how you feel about it. Because what do you think that is? Because I used to think like if it doesn't come quickly, it must not be good. But I no longer think that because I've had songs that have been written over the course of years and they were great and some of my favorites. Why do you think sometimes it's like a flood and sometimes it's like a trickle?

• Speaker #1

  I have a little bit of a theory on this. When I consistently show up for my music, you know, let's call it my muse. And that was something that I did last year was every day I showed up. And I feel like on most of those days. It's not that easy. It's like you're really working on the craft, but almost as a little like cosmic reward for showing up like that. Occasionally you just get this treat that just flows through you very, very easily. Aw. That's kind of how it goes for me. It's like the more I show and the more consistently I show up, the more consistently that happens.

• Speaker #0

  Wow.

• Speaker #1

  There's a book by Nick Cave where he, I think, talks about a very similar phenomenon. I remember reading it and thinking, oh, okay, somebody else has picked up on this. But I know Nick Cave is quite regimented with his songwriting. So he literally goes to his studio like a sort of nine to five and just writes, writes, writes. And he has the same experience that I just described that most days it's like grafting and, you know, it's not really particularly inspired work. He's just working, you know, like a nine to five, but as a songwriter. And then occasionally it's like, wow, something just lands.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, that is so cool. I love it. A creative treat. Delicious.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. It is, it is. It's very delicious when it happens. And then you start to expect it to happen like all the time. But yeah.

• Speaker #0

  So when it doesn't happen, let's say you had a creative treat drop into your lap. And then the next day, you're like struggling and straining to get something done. How do you not be like... what the heck is wrong with me? Why can't I do this? Yesterday, it was so easy. What's happening? This must not be right. How do you stay in that same trust that you had when the song was flowing through, even when you feel like you're punching through a brick wall?

• Speaker #1

  I think inevitably, you will feel like that sometimes. And that's okay. But something landed in my lap while I was in LA last year that helps me a bit with my mindset. And it was a book by David Lynch. I'm a big fan of David Lynch. I think it's called Finding the Big Fish. Okay. It's a selection of vignettes from David Lynch about his creative process and how he looks at it. But there was this concept that just really opened my eyes in there. And the way he describes it is like, so he compares songwriting like sitting, you know, at a river with a fishing pole. And he distinguishes between two different types of ideas. And it's like the surface level ideas are the surface level fish. But if you want to get to the deep level ideas, like something really, really profound, you have to sit there a little bit longer with your fishing pole. and wait for the deep sea fish to just come to you. So whenever now something just doesn't come to me or it feels like I'm forcing it or you know trying to mold it into something that is just not supposed to be like you know where it just doesn't land easily then I'm like okay I just have to sit here a little bit longer and how could sitting here a little bit longer look like you know well it could look like just leaving the studio for the day and going you know on a run or to do something else creative it could look like sitting in the studio you know for the rest of the day and seeing what shows up. It could look like listening to some music that's completely outside of what I would normally listen to. But the point is like you have to keep sitting there with your fishing pole, however that looks like for you. And eventually the fish like will come. There is a deep sea fish in there somewhere.

• Speaker #0

  That's such a good lesson for life in general, because I tend to be really impatient. And when something doesn't produce itself right away, like the space between knowing what I want and getting what I want. feels so fucking intolerable to me. It's very difficult for me to deal with the discomfort of the in-between. And I also have to know, like, sometimes I'm not going to want to fish. I'm thinking more about other life things, not creativity right now. But like, you have to know too, when like some days you're not down for the journey of a deep sea fishing expedition and be honest with yourself about that. Like maybe you just want a quick surface fish and If that situation or person can't deliver that fish to you, then you may have to like move on with your life. If the journey of waiting is too intolerable from like a genuine place, not from a like pouting place.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  But yeah, wow, that's good. I'm going to be thinking about that in the weeks to come. Okay. I want to talk about, though, your creative partner because. You've talked about him with such reverence and that he has been so important to your process. There's clearly a really great, honest, and empowering working relationship between the two of you. How did you know he was the right one to partner with? And what should people look for in a creative partner for a project like this or anything?

• Speaker #1

  Good question, because this is a long-haul project. You're going to have to be in contact with, of course, unless... you're always allowed to change creative partner if you want to. But let's say you stick with your accountability partner that you found for yourself. Yeah, it's a long haul project, you're gonna have to be with them for a while, they're gonna be a witness to your creativity. So I would say, you know, multiple things to look for. But a huge one for me is, you know, what does your gut say? Is this the right person to accompany you on this journey? Two, for me, we had previous working experience together. So I already had that kind of verified proof that, you know, I can work with this person. I enjoy working with this person. They're honest with me. They push me just enough. If it's too much, you know, you can always work those things out. But I think it's important that we already had experience working together. Another important aspect is we have very similar goals as well. You know, similar kind of things that drive us as artists, as songwriters, as musicians. So. Maybe that's a very important one that I hadn't even considered is, you know, when you have a similar sort of North Star, that can help a lot because, yeah, you kind of motivate each other in just the right way.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I think that's so important for anything in life, whether it's your creative partner, your romantic partner, a friend. Like if you don't have the same vision for your life and intentions, like you can have very different ways of going about getting the intention. But if you too can't agree on the reality of like what your vision is, then you will. always butt heads and always be in conflict. There has to be a similar intention and vision for both your life and your work together. Whether it's your romantic partner, your creative partner, a friend, a family member, if you don't have the same version of reality and vision for what the future can be, it will always be a battle.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, absolutely. That's so true.

• Speaker #0

  And I love, you mentioned that you had already worked together. And I think before embarking on a big year-long project like this, that would be a really important thing because you can love someone and admire their work. But again, if you've never had that experience to commit to a year of creating and doing something quite vulnerable with that person, vulnerable and also difficult, like you would need to have a prior work experience. And so I think that's a really important part for anyone listening, being like, I want to do this. Someone you've worked with, even in a small capacity, is probably a good candidate for this kind of partnership.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, yes, definitely. And I even have a very practical example. So we actually had done a mini challenge together before, too. I think it was December 22. We did like 20 songs in 20 days in December. Very different experience, but great for checking, you know, if it's sort of a good match. That or not to do like the long haul. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  So do a test run first.

• Speaker #1

  Yes. Exactly. Exactly.

• Speaker #0

  I love that. And then, okay, so tell me from this, you wrote 100 songs.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  Did you write them all together or some of them just yours and just his?

• Speaker #1

  So in total, it was 200. 100 of mine, 200 of his.

• Speaker #0

  Oh my gosh, you two are beasts. That's amazing. So are you actually going to release these songs?

• Speaker #1

  Yes. So I'm having a real full circle moment right now. Because in the past two weeks, you know, there was a big eclipse and things in my life turned around in such a way that, and you know, this all happened within the space of like 72 hours. I'm now going to LA in a week from today. Yes, the 11th. To record my third album. And it's going to be with my friend. He's also a producer. So with my friend Safar as producer, and we ended up choosing, I think, 10 songs from my 100 and four from his 100. So we're going to do like approximately 14. Songs together all from the challenge, which is such a full circle because this time last year I was in L.A. doing the treasure hunt.

• Speaker #0

  That is so cool to see how that works. It can give people inspiration for continuing with the deep sea fish, even when they want to turn around and peace out.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  I'm so excited to hear more about that. And I want to chat through that. But I want to talk about the other 90 songs. What happens to unreleased music? Where does it go? I feel so sad. I have like probably 200 songs that are sitting on a shelf right now. There's a lot we could talk about. Actually, I should get Safro and your boyfriend's information because I need more producer friends to work with. Oh, okay. But like what happens to them? Like I feel so sad that my little creative babies aren't getting to see the light of day because I love them and so many of them are so great. Like how do you feel about unreleased music? Where does it go?

• Speaker #1

  That is a really good question. I feel like... Every song does have a home. Nowadays, we do have some interesting tools, you know, as independent artists, such as Patreon, for example. Which, do you, are you on Patreon?

• Speaker #0

  I need to be. Do you do it?

• Speaker #1

  Yes, yes, I have a Patreon. So something that I've actually started doing is releasing some of my archival music, you know, like songs that are not going to be on the album to my Patreon. So that way they get a real sort of... insider peek into my archive, my process. They can also give their opinions on, you know, like, do they want to see this song fully fledged out and released? And I get to give these songs some sort of a home, some sort of a voice. I would also love to do, like, an extended deluxe album, of course, because there really are so many songs, and, you know, I think quite a lot of songs with potential as well. Of course, many of them need to be developed all the way in, but a lot of them have, like, that magic spark in them. That would be, you know, the first thing that comes to mind is like releasing archival material on Patreon, for example, or doing extended albums.

• Speaker #0

  Do you think the songs feel sad that they don't get to be on the album?

• Speaker #1

  Oh, gosh. Now I'm gonna like be haunted by this idea.

• Speaker #0

  I think of these things, Mona Lisa. I think of the songs like the Toys and Toys story, like they're in the box and forgotten. And I'm like, they just want to come back to life and be played with.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, my goodness. Maybe we need to like think about some sort of collaborative project where we give these songs that are sitting on the shelf of a life. Yeah. OK. This is something to think about in the future. I would love to.

• Speaker #0

  OK, I'm down. We have to think about how we can take care of our poor little babies in purgatory. So, OK, I'm. fascinated by the Patreon. How did you go about building that, pricing it, advice for people, including myself, on how to think about a Patreon, what you include, how you price it, how you build the community?

• Speaker #1

  I think maybe I'm going to think about my tiers again soon, because this was a few years ago that I launched my Patreon. And to be honest, I haven't put as much into it as I would like to. I'm going to start again now that I have, you know, all of these songs waiting. I kind of lit the price. I just have one tier. come to me, you know, intuitively.

• Speaker #0

  And then how do you go about building that community? Because it is really hard for anyone. I mean, major companies spend tons of money figuring out how to get people from one platform to the next or one product to the next. How do you think about as an independent artist, building community and asking your people to jump from, you know, Instagram to Patreon to Spotify? How do you do that?

• Speaker #1

  Yes, my community has been so amazing throughout the years. I mean, I've done crowdfunders for multiple albums now a very long time ago. Gosh, I think it was in 2018. I tried to crowdfund an album through Pledge Music. Lesson learned, never launch a crowdfunder during Mercury Retrograde because while my crowdfunder was up, the platform crashed. Do you remember this? No,

• Speaker #0

  I've never even heard of this platform.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, they just like went into liquidation. For some artists, they ran away with like all the money that they had in the middle of their midpoint campaigns raised. It was really crazy. It was really crazy. But I just remember what I really remember from this experience is that many of the people who had pledged on Pledge and then Pledge disappeared. They all like migrated to the next platform that I launched. And then for my second album, Sanctify My Love, I did a big Kickstarter. and People were just really so supportive. I'm amazed. And I think maybe many artists don't even realize how much people love to support independent art. I'm always so humbled. And it feels even more special for me that the community invested into the creation of the art.

• Speaker #0

  Because you co-created it with them.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, it's a co-creation. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I really feel like the energy of my most insider sort of fan circle really is in my songs. Yeah. And I love to do community building things because I also create soul paintings. This is like one of my little extensions of the universe. Soul paintings are like when I do an intuitive painting by tapping into the energy of the recipient's soul, so to speak.

• Speaker #0

  Maria, that is so effing cool.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you. And one of the little community building things that I did around the time of my last Kickstarter, I think that was like for the second album, I think 2023. three was I did this live stream where I picked, it was a giveaway. So, you know, several people applied and then I picked one person who would get to do, to have their soul painting done by me live, like on a live stream. So the people watched while I was creating it. And I just remembered that, you know, the person who I was creating it for later sent me such a long, beautiful message about how special it was to see the members of the community, like chipping into his soul painting and what went into it and it also turned out that the symbols, the colors were so meaningful for him. And I just remember, you know, like receiving that message later was very, very like deeply humbling and, you know, sort of these sorts of experiential, because I feel like my universe is very experiential things like, you know, drawing people in, letting them be part of the co-creation process. It's like, it's a real beautiful, like give and take experience. Does that answer the question?

• Speaker #0

  I think so. Yeah. Basically, yeah. Just like really be present with your community and like, offer yourself and like your skills to them and then they will offer themselves to you go from place to place you know like you're building a genuine connection not one where like

• Speaker #1

  I need to raise money you're like here's what I'm doing I'm so excited to create this with you here's how you can support me and this is how I'm going to support you in turn yes exactly and I've always you know without exception felt surprised and humbled by how much people actually wanted to show up for me when I was creating stuff and I needed help

• Speaker #0

  It's so true. And I think here's another thing for you listening that I want you to think about. When I last year was nominated for the Webby's, which by the way, I don't know if you know this, but we got nominated for another one this year, which is so exciting.

• Speaker #1

  So exciting. Absolutely. Congratulations.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you. But that was really the first time I went hard on asking people to support me. I want to do a Kickstarter. I've never done that before. But that was the first time I really said like, I was vulnerable enough to say, I really, really want this. only way I'm going to get there is if you support me. And it was so amazing because in this weird way, I feel like I got to attend my own funeral because people showed up for me. I had no idea like how loved I was and how many beautiful people had been like supporting me and holding me all along. There are so many times in my journey when I thought nobody supports me. Nobody sees me. I'm in this by myself. Like by. humbling myself enough to get vulnerable and be like, I really want this and I can't get there without you. Would you help me? And the fact that people showed up for me in that big way where I was able to win the People's Choice Award over like multiple massive companies. It was just like, I really do say like, ask for help in your creative journey or whatever your journey is because We shouldn't just know how much people love us when something bad happens. It's very beautiful to know how much people love us and we love them when something good happens too. So yeah, like what you're saying just really reminded me of that experience because you have no idea how loved you are and how held you are until you make yourself vulnerable enough to say, I really want this. Would you help me? Or I really need this. Would you help me?

• Speaker #1

  Oh, absolutely. Oh, my gosh, I connect just 100%. And doesn't it make it so much more special when you know that the sort of victory came via you being supported by this community?

• Speaker #0

  That was the best part. It mattered more to me than the award, like the award and the ceremony was nice. Like the only times I cried was when I realized that I did this because of the people that believed in me.

• Speaker #1

  So it's like even in this, this whole idea of the journey is the journey is the thing, isn't it? It's not even the destination, the award, the 100 songs. It's like the journey that got you there. Yeah, that's the most magical part.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So speaking of that, I asked you to share some of your top takeaways. And one of the things you said was the journey versus the inner reward, that the biggest transformations happen internally before they manifest externally. I love this. Will you share more on it?

• Speaker #1

  Yes, maybe one of the greatest gifts that this challenge, I feel, gave me was that I, having been, and you know, perhaps I still am in many ways, like a person that has historically been quite motivated, you know, by the results, the achievement, the destination, the milestone, something about this challenge taught me in the way that stayed with me, it's been a lasting result, that the journey is way more magical than the thing that the destination that you arrive at. One of the ways in which this was confirmed for me is that, you know, after I'd completed the challenge, things did start to manifest for me externally.

• Speaker #0

  This is so my experience too, Maria. And I'm like, it's so funny because I keep having to learn this lesson that is very upsetting to my little like coping mechanisms. But the truth is, the less I push, the more I get.

• Speaker #1

  100% that just like I feel that in my body, you know? Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  But so you were saying as you started like really embracing the journey, you actually started manifesting more.

• Speaker #1

  Yes. And also when those, you know, manifestations came afterwards, I received them very calmly. My nervous system was like, yeah, OK, great. Like, this is nice. Like, even though there were amazing manifestations, I was like, like, nice. But the biggest achievement is still the fact that I went through this journey of writing 100 songs. It's almost like natural when the results start coming in afterwards. And I don't necessarily look at them as, you know, as like results or direct outcomes. They might be. But the thing I absolutely still treasure the most is the journey. And, you know, I've noticed the difference in myself because in 2023, I created an album with my friend Safra. Now we're doing a new album. And I've realized that on that album, I was still that very externally motivated person. the way that I approached the album was reflected in that. And now the way I'm approaching the new album is like completely different. I'm all about the process now.

• Speaker #0

  There's so much to break down from what you just said. I want to resonate on yes, it's so true that when you actually commit to the journey and finding beauty in the journey and like also to yourself to saying like I have worth as an artist and I believe in myself as an artist. The highs don't feel as high and the lows don't feel as low. And it's not like you're numb. You are experiencing it and loving it. But I found this recently, like when I got nominated for another Webby, I'm like, that's awesome. I'm so excited. But I wasn't like, oh, my God, now everything in my life is finally good and I will be OK forever. It wasn't like that was going to save me. In the same token, I've been noticing when I get like negative comments on a video or when somebody doesn't seem to really like resonate with my work or believe in it as much as I wish they would. It doesn't feel like. a decree that I will never be successful or that I am bad. I'm like, okay, like that's that person's opinion, like interesting information. And the day to day is also more joyful. It doesn't feel so life or death. It doesn't feel so black or white. So I think that that's such an important thing to point out for anyone listening. And I want to ask you more about that because I know you're a deeply spiritual person. What sort of inner work did you have to do to get to a place where this is your reality right now?

• Speaker #1

  My reality being the fact that I just...

• Speaker #0

  You're committed to the journey. You're seeing the beauty in the journey. The highs aren't feeling as high, the lows aren't feeling as low, and every day, the present moment is the gift.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, what a good question, because I feel like what happens in our creativity often is an extension, maybe always is an extension of what's happening in life and our inner journey. I think I used to have much more of an attachment to having to prove my worth through specific results or manifestations like, oh, this thing happened. Now this proves that I'm worthy or that I'm good. And I don't know if you've had this experience, but for me, well, it was. 10 years that I'm making original music now. You know, this can happen, for example, with for me, it's happened with parents where while you're in the process of the journey, especially with people who are not in this industry, for me, while you're in the process of, you know, like, let's say, during the writing of the 100 songs, you're still in the process, there's no visible result yet for other people, then people are a bit like, what are you doing, you know, and then when there's this big show or something, suddenly everybody tells you, you know, oh, amazing, wow. We see you now. But that show might only happen like once a year or once every five years. So I think now I have less attachment to this idea that, you know, the only way I can be worthy or prove myself to be worthy is through those big manifestations that everybody can see. Like I give much more value now to the invisible work that I do. And, you know, this goes for my creativity, sitting in the studio, writing my songs, but also my inner journey. So. The work that I do on the inside, the work that possibly nobody sees is the work that actually gets me the greatest outer results. And now I have such a trust in that.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, wow. So for someone listening, how can they start seeing themselves day to day? Because that's something I just heard you say is you're not so focused on other people seeing you. You're focused on turning the mirror toward yourself and looking at it and seeing yourself accurately and beautifully. For someone listening who's struggling with that, who's still very externally motivated, how can they start turning inward?

• Speaker #1

  I think as artists, or perhaps I should only speak about myself, is there's often some sort of like deep trauma around being seen. And I feel like sometimes the way to overcome that and to stop seeking validation and a certain way of being seen on the outside is to ask yourself, where am I not seeing myself? Like which part of myself wants to be seen by me and or comforted by me or validated by me that I'm not validating. So I start looking for other people to validate me in that way. And, you know, usually they won't. If you haven't done it for yourself, then they'll keep mirroring that to you.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Or you'll get it and it will still feel empty because you feel the same way inside.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, exactly. Absolutely.

• Speaker #0

  Such great advice. OK, this is another thing you said. Show up for your muse and it will show up for you. What does that mean and why?

• Speaker #1

  Yes, I think I briefly touched on this earlier, that I keep having this experience, or for me, it's been like a repeated pattern that, well, you know, we talked about that amazing feeling of when a song just lands and flows through you. But it's like, if you think of that muse or that inspiration, let's say, as a person or as a best friend, why should it keep showing up that way for you, if you only visit it like once a year or twice a year? Do you really want that beautiful experience with that person? It's like if you're never giving to them, why should it keep giving to you? So that was kind of how I started to see it, that the more I come here and, you know, either actively work on the song or just wait for it to land, let's say through meditation, the more it's going to come. It's like a friend or.

• Speaker #0

  Wow, that's so cool. And it reminds me of my relationship with God and spirituality. Like how interesting this most recent. thing I just went through where my dad had a subdural hematoma and was in the ICU. This is weird to say, but this is the truth. I was so happy that it happened when it happened because I had been actively praying and like reconnecting with God and like building my spiritual relationship for like the past month before. So when it happened, I was really grateful that I wasn't just like going up to God for the first time. And like, Instead, I had actually been building my spiritual foundation for like the last month or two and already was in communication and contact. And so when I went up with this prayer, I felt like I had a foundation to stand on. And it reminds me of creativity because I think creativity and spirituality are indivisible. When you're not just going to your creative energy when you need something, when instead you show up for it daily in whatever way that looks like to you. it's going to be so much more likely to flow through you. You're going to have a language to speak with it. You're going to be able to make something because you've already built the relationship. You're not just sucking the well dry and then leaving it until you need another drink. That's such a great point. And I wonder about this other thing you've talked about, because we've talked about a lot about how identity is connected to creativity and our relationship with ourselves. And, you know, one big thing that you learn through this process is You've had this. persona, this performing persona of Mona Lisa, and your real name's Maria. And you talked about maybe wanting to bridge the gap between the two. Tell me about that.

• Speaker #1

  In recent months, something really, some really interesting metamorphosis has been happening, and it's been reflected to me in various ways. You know, like maybe a very simple one is that sometimes when people get to know me online through my music and then they meet me in real life, they're like, wow, there's like such a 3D... Maria behind this Mona Lisa and you know you're so charming and dynamic in real life and I never would have picked that up from your music and this sort of disjunction only started happening recently and I feel like I've arrived somewhere new but to give you a little bit of a backstory before I went to study for my master's in music I used to perform in a particular way where like on stage Maria was very present so it was like you The songs were from Mona Lisa. They were very like cinematic, haunting, otherworldly. And then Maria, like kind of dynamic and bubbly, would comment in between the songs. And at the time, that wasn't very gelling very organically. And I remember that when I was preparing my final degree show, which was like a one-hour performance, my supervisor suggested to me that why don't I start embracing this persona, like Mona Lisa, as a persona. She's this dark priestess. She doesn't speak. speak in between the songs and she's fully immersed in this world for the duration of the performance and that was such a game changer for me and I think for the past like nearly seven years it served me just amazingly because it completely became a part of what I do and you know as soon as I'd step on stage I'd become like Mona Lisa which is quite different from Maria but it feels like now something's happening where perhaps Maria has grown so much on the inside that now she's like outgrowing Mona Lisa. And I feel that Mona Lisa now wants to be reborn with Maria integrated rather than just separated from her.

• Speaker #0

  Oh my gosh. Yes, it's like severance. You're going through the reintegration process. The person has like an innie self that's just their work self and an outie self that is their like real self. And there's this one character that's like going, spoiler alert. through the reintegration process to bring the innie and the outie together. And your process reminds me of that. But I think that's so beautiful. Like Mona Lisa got you where you needed to be so you could feel comfortable integrating Maria in, in a way that feels holistic and natural, where it's not like, now I'm Maria, now I'm Mona Lisa. It's like, instead, it's like, maybe I'm always both.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, exactly. Yeah, absolutely. And What's really interesting is that as I've been going through the 100 songs, you know, to pick songs for the album and just pick my favorites. Many of them, even though I hadn't realized it at the time, are about shedding masks, reinvention, false and true identities. So this is a bit of like a spoiler, but this will be a big theme on the album.

• Speaker #0

  Wow. Hey, Creative Cutie, I wanted to remind you of something. I am a creative coach. And. if you're interested in unleashing your creativity, sharing your creative project with the world, and or finally going after your biggest dreams, I would love to help you, to hold up a mirror for you, to support you, and to be your co-creator and your coach. You can email me at lauren.lagrasso at gmail.com to set up a free discovery call or go to my website, laurenlagrasso.com and click the contact page and write me an email on there. I can't wait to help you unleash your inner creative and find your authentic voice. Creativity is your birthright. Let's unleash. What did this journey teach you about self-love, self-trust, and self-knowledge and how they're connected to the creative process?

• Speaker #1

  There was a lot in this process about trusting my instincts and intuition and that presented itself in various ways you know one of which was just showing up to the treasure hunt and trusting that whatever appeared on my path was was the right thing to inspire the lyrics of my songs that was one of the manifestations but also learning to in the middle of this very intense process to hear my intuition my body when they were a bit like ah like okay now it's too much or now I need to pause or now I need to pivot or now I need to suggest you know to my songwriting partner that now we need to change strategy you know, without being afraid to upset the dynamic or something. Do you know that phenomenon I'm kind of describing right now where you're in the middle of this really intense process and then something like feels off? Yeah. And sometimes you're tempted to just keep pushing through to hear that moment when it's like, okay, like now I feel tension. Now I'm going to pause and listen to what that is and then take action on it rather than just pushing through.

• Speaker #0

  And does that cue come in your body? Like where do you hear the tension or where do you feel that?

• Speaker #1

  Yes, for me, I feel it in my body. Yeah, it can be like, you know, like a little headache appearing or just like my stomach feeling tense or just that feeling of like something off, you know, and sometimes I feel like it's such a fine line between when you're sort of traversing your comfort zone and you're about to like have a breakthrough that discomfort and then also the discomfort, which can feel very similar of when something is not quite right for you and you actually need to like actively pivot.

• Speaker #0

  Yes. That is so true, Maria. And whenever I do my creative workshops, like my first caveat to anyone who's there is like, all of the prompts I give you are optional, but I will say it with the caveat, know the difference between something that genuinely feels wrong for you. Like it's a genuine no for you in your body and something you're pissed off at me asking you to do because you know, it's going to help you grow. It's subtle, but like for me, the difference is like the no is in my whole body. It's like. my whole body stops and says no. When I'm pissed off that someone's asked me to do something that I know is going to help me grow, it's in the back of my neck and I just feel like violent, but it's not actually bad for me. It's just something that I'm annoyed that they've asked me to do because I know it's going to push me to the next level and there's part of me that's resisting it. So find those cues in you, like what's your genuine no because it's wrong. And what's the part of you that's resisting something because you're afraid of the change?

• Speaker #1

  Oh, how interesting. So maybe for you, it's so specific as well, like the different parts of the body. I wonder if it's about noticing that something is there. Maybe the first step, if you're not yet able to distinguish, is just to notice that something's there, then pause and then figure out what it is and then proceed maybe.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, that is so good. That's great advice. I love it. this has been such an enriching conversation. I love meeting my listeners because I'm like, wow, first of all, you teach me so much. You're such brilliant creatives and artists. And I admire you like watching you. And for anyone listening, like go check out Maria Mona Lisa's work. You can search her under Mona Lisa, M-O-N-E-L-I-S-E. She has such presence on stage. Like it was honestly intimidating to watch you. And it also inspired me to be like, oh, wow, I want to step up my performance game because. You are so embodied when you perform. It is really, really inspiring and like made me want to level up. So check out what she does. She's so committed and she creates such a beautiful world. Speaking of that, you have a new single coming out called Voodoo Dream.

• Speaker #1

  Yes.

• Speaker #0

  Tell me about the intersection between that song and everything we've been talking about it. And also when it's out, how we can support you, all the good stuff.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you so much. As usual, it's all very crazy and synchronistic because the song was initially written in 2022. Now it's been reworked a little bit for the release, but the idea is still there. And you know those songs that sometimes like don't make sense until like three years later? Well, the song is actually about this woman. So she's, you know, it's like a full moon. It's one of those mystical nights and she's gazing in the mirror and she sees another version of herself who is living her unlived dream. And she's like, she sees this and she's like, you know what, I'm no longer gonna not live my dream and just watch this other parallel self living it. I'm gonna claim it now. So she does this sort of like ritual where she becomes one with this woman who is living the dream and then they merge. And yeah, so it's like the perfect portal into my next album.

• Speaker #0

  Oh my gosh. And it's like an exact mirror for you of merging Maria and Mona Lisa.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yes. Thank you for pointing that out.

• Speaker #0

  That's wild. Wow. And it's like you allowing yourself to claim the full vision of your artistry and embody all pieces of yourself. Like instead of having these like segmented pieces, Maria, Mona Lisa, any other parts of you that feel like they have to like just deviate in order to do the thing. You're saying like, actually, no, I can be whole, embodied and live it all in this one experience.

• Speaker #1

  Absolutely. Yes. Yes. No, thank you for framing it like that. So many questions and observations you made today kind of like led me to a fuller realization of what I've lived because of the way you framed the questions and made your comments. I'm like, wow, now I have a more 3D understanding of this process. So thank you.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you. No, you've really influenced me. And I think there's a lot I'm going to take away from this. I know there's so much that our listeners are going to take away. And I just love that you are part of the creative community. It means so much more to. talk with somebody about their journey who has been part of your journey as well. So I can't thank you enough for supporting me, supporting the show. And yeah, for you listening, go ahead, try a creative challenge, find that perfect partner. And remember, it is all about the journey. I hated it when people said that in the past. But you know what? It's true. It was a part of me that was pissed off because something was true, but I didn't want it to be true. Wasn't a whole body. No. So yeah, commit to the journey, commit to yourself. And yeah, I'm happy to help. Both Maria and I believe in you. We love you.

• Speaker #1

  Yes, we do. Thank you so much. Thank you.

• Speaker #0

  Thanks for listening. And thanks to my guest, Mona Lisa. For more information on Mona Lisa, follow her at Mona Lisa Music and find her music on Spotify, Apple Music, or wherever you get your music. Unleash Your Inner Creative is hosted and executive produced by me, Lauren LaGrasso. Produced by Rachel Fulton with music by Liz Full. Again, thank you, Creative Cutie, for listening. If you like what you heard today, remember to rate, review, and follow the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts. Share the show with a friend and post about it on social media. Tag me at Lauren LaGrasso and at Unleash Your Inner Creative, and I will repost to share my gratitude. Also tag Mona Lisa at Mona Lisa Music so she can share as well. My wish for you this week is that you consider doing some sort of creative challenge yourself. Whether it's a huge one like Mona Lisa did or a mini one. Make the commitment to yourself and do it without worrying about perfection. Just get the creativity out there. These steps forward will help you unleash. I love you and I believe in you. Talk with you next week.