#121 - Antoine Veiry: Brumont's Next Generation at Château Montus and Château Bouscassé | Wine Makers Show: the wine podcast

Description

What does it take to inherit one of Southwest France's most respected wine names, and then dare to change it? We caught Antoine Veiry on the last afternoon of VINEXPO Hong Kong, booths coming down all around us, to find out.

Antoine runs Château Montus and Château Bouscassé in Madiran, the two estates his mother and his stepfather, Alain Brumont, built from a nearly anonymous family vineyard into one of the region's best-known names. He walks us through learning the trade from Anselme Selosse in Champagne and Guigal in the Rhône, the day he decided to start acting like he was already in charge, and why he now chases 13.5% alcohol instead of the 15% wines his parents once made.

Expect a crash course in Tannat, Petit Courbu and Manseng; a right bank and left bank comparison you have never heard applied to the foothills of the Pyrenees; a blind tasting of Château Figeac 1985; and a patient bet on vineyard land nobody has planted yet. Tune in!

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▬▬ ⭐️ ABOUT ⭐️ ▬▬

My name is Antoine, and I’ve been passionate about wine for several years. I knew nothing at first, so I went out to meet the biggest figures in the industry and turned those encounters into a podcast that’s now listened to by over 100,000 people. I now share with you what I’ve learned, and I hope we embark together on a beautiful wine journey to discover the finest experiences.

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Transcription

Speaker #0
All right, let's go. Hi Antoine.
Speaker #1
Hi.
Speaker #0
Thank you very much, Antoine as well. Today you have two Antoine for the price of one, so that's pretty nice. Thank you very much for welcoming me here on your booth during VINEXPO. I know it's been quite a few days of intensity and a lot of things happening here in Hong Kong.
Speaker #1
Yes.
Speaker #0
So thank you very much for taking the time. So we are Thursday actually, it's the end of VINEXPO. We can see all the stands tearing down.
Speaker #1
Perfect time to take time and to speak about wine.
Speaker #0
To share a glass and discuss together. I have a lot of questions, but first, can you introduce yourself?
Speaker #1
So, yes, my name is Antoine Véry. I come from southwest of France. We are Vigneron in Madiran, a very small area. And I grew up in this region. So my stepfather, Alain Brumont, and my mother own this company since... the they are the first generation of this of this domain chateau montus and chateau buscasse and i am i am the second one so uh i grew up on the company i grew up in countryside i learned wine business in the world and in france uh so a large experience everywhere and and now now i am in charge about one making and uh and uh and pretty much everything uh so it's a very very um it's a huge challenge i think for me but
Speaker #0
I really like it yeah so you you always like you grew up in the vineyards basically yes yeah
Speaker #1
I arrived at Montus and Bouscassé I was 9 years old so I pretty much yeah grew up on the on the field yeah so it's we are 5 brothers and sisters and I'm the only one work on the wine business so we had a we had same education uh work in the vineyard in the cellar uh in our big warehouse uh where we have all the the wine in the storage and i decide uh to to do this job after a few few years uh at yeah maybe 16 or 17 years old how
Speaker #0
did you decide that it was like you were in love with uh the the wine with being outside with the product or yeah i'm um
Speaker #1
I really like the terroir. I really like the work in the agriculture in general. Since I'm young, I want to work on this kind of environment. But I decided to really work on the wine business after work with my stepfather, my mother, during summer, winter, during all my holidays, when I was at school. And I said, okay. Maybe I can start something with my parents. And I started my first internship in 2011 in Champagne. And I said, OK, let's go. Let's do this experience for now. And after this job, if I can do that.
Speaker #0
And so you started in Champagne with this first internship? And then you did other experiences in the world?
Speaker #1
I did five years at school in Bordeaux. And in each year, I had experience to do in different regions. So I did Champagne, I did Burgundy, Côte d'Uron, Roussillon, Bordeaux. And after I traveled in Australia and Oregon. So yeah, I had a few experiences before to come back to the domain with different types of domain. different size um so yeah it's it was a great opportunity because my parents have a lot of contacts everywhere in the wine business and i say okay um i'm i'm ready for this kind of training you know traveling a lot um and work with uh other people other producer um different region different concept different philosophy And now I build my own concept with Montus and all the ideas and the concepts I learn everywhere.
Speaker #0
So what did you learn elsewhere and that you want to apply in Montus and Muscassin?
Speaker #1
It depends on which region. When I work in Champagne, I work a lot with, I work for Anselm Sélos. Okay. So one of the best charismatic. producer in Champagne, very special, brilliant guy in viticulture and winemaking and aging. So I learned a lot in the aging. process uh and i really like long aging uh for all the red and the whites we make now i continue this uh this experience with long aging with gigal i work for gigal in ronvalet they do also three four five years of aging in oak uh with uh with the syrah um so i really i really learned about the singularity and the expression of terroir and uh how to age on the best way to wine to have something very drinkable younger and also to have the biggest complexity of the terroir and the grapes. In Bordeaux, I learned a lot in winemaking, how to make a wine softer on the tannins, how to extract the best quality of the wine, how to manage the vineyard to don't have a huge stress on the vineyard, to have a... The perfect quality of tannins with tannins is really, really important because it's a powerful grape. I learned a lot also for the marketing and commercial part also in Bordeaux because it's a very specific way to sell wine with Laplace, with the negotiations, etc. And when I worked also in Oregon and in Australia, I worked in the New World. So the climate change, a lot in France, in Europe. And in this new world, wine, you have already this kind of difficult climate to grow vines. So I learned a lot on the viticulture also.
Speaker #0
So you learned all of this. You come back to the family estate. You must have been like 24. So you come back and immediately you're like, I want to become the manager of the estate. How does this happen?
Speaker #1
You know, when you, Alain is born in Chateau Bouscassé, it was a family property, but the parents of Alain didn't have a brand. They don't have a huge notoriety with Chateau Bouscassé. Maybe just 10% of the production was in the bottle. So Alain start with nothing from the beginning. And you know, when you live in the countryside, you're supposed to be the employees of your parents. your parents until they are retired so alan has a as a education old school education and i pretty much are the same so you know when it's good you don't say if it's good or not you know he say if it's bad yes but not if it's good uh and he don't tell the the the vision he don't he don't talk too much so you have to think through it analyze it yeah yeah so I come back to the domain. I was in the vineyard, in the cellar. I worked pretty much everywhere. And one day I had the feeling I was supposed to be in charge one day. So I started to work like I was in charge about the viticulture and the onology. So I started to move some details in the winemaking, in the vineyard. And I would like one day to build my own team. My parents built a team in the vineyard, in the cellar. Great winemaker, but they spent maybe 30 years in our domain. And I would like to have my new generation winemaker also. So, yeah, I developed the team. And also I developed the character of the wine I would like to make. Maybe more contemporary. I want to preserve the style, the identity, the touch of the Tannat on this terroir. The singularity of the wine also, of course. But I want to bring something more maybe fresh, more elegant, more easy to drink with complexity. You know, it's a very fashion to make something easy. Just easy. After two years, after a glass of wine, you forget the wine. And after two years, you... You can't continue to drink the wine. I want to make something for a long time. Wine, for me, it's time. It's time in the vineyard. It's time in the cellar. It's time in the bottle. So you have to be very patient. It's what I want to continue to build with Montus. It's customer and market very passion for Android, and I appreciate the wine.
Speaker #0
It's very interesting what you said about Um, I felt that I wanted to be in charge someday, so I started behaving like I was in charge. Yeah,
Speaker #1
sometimes if you wait, it never happens. So you have to start something. When you are 24, you don't really feel what is the good way or what is the wrong way. And you don't feel what is bad or good. And you have your parents in the back. So if you do something wrong, you always have something on the back to say.
Speaker #0
They will tell you. Yeah,
Speaker #1
exactly. Now they start to be old. They continue to work with me. but I feel I'm in charge at 80%, maybe 90%
Speaker #0
now. Plus, you must feel that they trust way, way more than a few years ago. Yeah,
Speaker #1
of course. I'm 32 now. So, yeah, I think after 30 years old, you start to have everything organized in your head and you start to really feel and to really know where you want to go.
Speaker #0
Yeah, 100%. Can you describe a bit, so Montus and Bouscassé, so it's from the southwest. We know a little bit about the southwest because we visited a few years ago, we visited Plemont. So in the monastery and then we went into Saint-Mont, which is close to you. And I think you have some appellations, Madiron, it's in common with them. They have also some Madiron. So we know a little bit about the southwest, but really not that much. So can you like explain a bit more what it looks like what your wines look like uh what are the like um how the countryside is uh yeah the southwest is a beautiful region for i love it for um armagnac but also armagnac gastronomy yeah
Speaker #1
foie gras canard duck yeah truffle caviar that's black pig this is a huge region for gastronomy alain ducasse said if the French gastronomy lost Southwest, we lost 70% of the gastronomic product. So Southwest is a huge place for food, great food, great product, for a good price. It's always a very good value in Southwest. The wine, the food, and everything. What is really special, it's a grape variety we have. for the white wine. So we have Petit Courbu, Petit Manser, Gros Manser. This is our local grapes, very specific grapes from the Piedmont of the Pyrenees. We have also Tanate, Cabernet Franc, and Cabernet Sauvignon. So this is our three grapes for the red. We have a very specific terroir also because you know, if you look at the The most famous region in the world of wine. They are all close or made by the creation of Montaigne. So close to the Pyrenees, you have the Pays Basque, you have also Gironson, close to Pau, and you have Madiran and all the Languedoc-Roussillon. All those appellations were created with the elevation of the Pyrenees. So all the sediments, the clay, the stone. in our appellation, come from the Pyrenees. So we have a huge diversity of terroir because we are very close to the mountain. So two different characteristics. Bouscassé, it's limestone and clay. And Montus, it's clay and river stone. So two different characteristics. If you want to compare very shortly, you can say right bank, left bank. Right bank with the limestone in Saint-Emilion, same as Bouscassé. and the gravel and the clay from the medoc, the same as Montus. So very similar expression of our wine in two different types of soil. And our wines are amazing for aging. Of course, now, because of the climate, the climate changes a lot, it changes really fast. It's easier and easier for our generation now to make good vintage almost every year. because we have a great weather. We can pick on a ripe condition all the time, almost all the time. So we don't have any more problem on the quality of the tannins, on the ripeness of the tannins, the freshness, the natural acidity, because high in elevation, close to the mountains, so very fresh climate. So we have a high acidity wine, and this is amazing for maturation, aging. in the bottle and in the time.
Speaker #0
Maybe we can try together, if you want?
Speaker #1
Yes, we can try red or you want...
Speaker #0
Yeah, let's just share a glass of this one. Let's make it easy for us. Thanks. So this is Latire, this is Montus, okay.
Speaker #1
Yeah, this is Latire, it's a single vineyard from Montus. It's 2.5 hectares, highest elevation vineyard, 260 meters of altitude. So pretty high and you have a very specific expression of Tanat. It's 100% Tanat, it's vintage 2019. And this one is aged for three years, one year in barrack and two years in a big volume, big wood, big cask.
Speaker #0
And it's actually very good. Yes. I love that it's super ripe as well. Because sometimes with tannate, you have a lot of like, you know, how do you say, like herbal notes, you know. like poivron, that type of things.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
It's not the case at all. There is tannate inside of this?
Speaker #1
100%.
Speaker #0
Oh, wow.
Speaker #1
Yeah, this is 100% tannate.
Speaker #0
Oh, that's cool.
Speaker #1
Yeah, all our single vineyards are made with 100% tannate. To have one grapes, one terroir, it's very unique, very...
Speaker #0
Ah, so you don't blend the...
Speaker #1
With this one, no.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
With Montus, we have Cab Franc and Cabernet Sauvignon. But with Lathier, it's a single vineyard. 100% than that.
Speaker #0
No, that's cool. And so how is the market for you? Because so you said, especially in Asia. So like you said that Southwest is always good value. And this is something that always strikes me when I see wines from the Southwest. But basically everything you said from the Southwest, like every food from the Southwest is basically not super expensive for what it is. Like the value that you can have for your money is insane. So how do you manage this? How do you also go on the Asian markets? Because here in Hong Kong, like you have some people that are very passionate and precise on what they want, but most of the time they also want to have the like most expensive, most exclusive or, you know.
Speaker #1
I think Southwest is pretty exclusive because we don't produce a massive production of wine. And also sommelier has a great knowledge about wine. And Montus started to be famous in the 80s, 90s. So you find a lot of back vintages on the market in Hong Kong, in Taiwan, in Vietnam, in Japan, in Korea. So I think the notoriety starts 30 years ago in the market. So the first generation of sommelier at this time. I really enjoy Montus because it was, you know, a challenger for the Grand Cru from Bordeaux. I don't want to be the same now, but I think it's also in the mind of a lot of sommeliers now. Montus, it's always and today also a good challenger for a very good value price. So we continue to develop restaurants with good sommeliers. And... Yeah, I think it's it's much your market. You know, people know the wine. They know about wine. They are open minded. So I'm I have a good feeling with the market now. We just restarted in Hong Kong now since one year.
Speaker #0
So you have a distributor here in Port-au-Prince.
Speaker #1
Yeah, but it's first time for me here now. Today. You like it so far?
Speaker #0
I'm mature just all right now?
Speaker #1
Just all right. yesterday night i spent a day in the on the fair so i don't know how look hong kong so but i will come back for sure uh at the end of the year uh to uh to visit to really understand the atmosphere of the city because if you want to to to sell your wine you have to understand where you are and with what kind of wine you you you need to uh to sell uh first so yeah it's uh i think when you make wine you have to have a the feeling with your grapes and the terroir you When you sell wine, you have to have the feeling also with your partner, your distributor, sommelier, the region, the food, etc.
Speaker #0
You have to also make them passionate about your product. Yeah, of course. And this, you cannot do it if you're not really here or if there is not someone actually here to say, this is Montus, let's drink it together. I will explain to you. I will show you the pictures of our place. Picture,
Speaker #1
take a glass, drink, good food, good pairing. This is...
Speaker #0
the the rules i think so uh so montus buscasse two different terroirs two different domains two different uh domains yes and you uh and so you how big is it uh so montus now it's um
Speaker #1
42 hectares okay uh with uh with five hectares not in production so um so you have 37 hectares in in production now okay And Bouscassé, it's 48 hectares. So it's a pretty nice size for work because we have a large diversity of terroir. We have a young vineyard, old vines, and we can make a lot of single vineyards in Bouscassé and Montus. So we have around 15 different cuvées, white and red, and we develop more and more and more the whites. I think the new generation in Asia, I don't know for now, but she will discover the whites in a few years, I think, because it's something very new for Asian people, I think, white wine, except Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc. But our grapes, it's a new profile. It's a new style, new expression, very floral, very fruity, very fresh, very elegant. home. I expand the production of the white in France. So for this kind of market also.
Speaker #0
But even, I guess, even for Europe or the US, people drink less and less red wines. It's not like for dinner. I don't know how you feel about it, but from what I see, it's...
Speaker #1
Yes, the consumer likes white more and more. But in this city, for example, people are... Southwest, for example, we are well known for red, not for whites. So we need to work on that. I believe in the whites. And I believe in the sommelier to work with. So, yeah.
Speaker #0
So, yeah, so you are approximately the size of 100 hectares if we... Yeah,
Speaker #1
divided by two domains. Yeah,
Speaker #0
divided by two domains. So, as you said, it's a pretty nice size because it's still... accessible in terms of management great playground you can still do a lot of things you do so you said you do 50 different wines 15 15 okay five zero uh one five and not five five zero okay 15 yes i was like wow these guys are really making yeah we do a lot of single vineyard uh not a not a huge quantity but uh
Speaker #1
2000 bottle 5000 bottle uh so it's pretty much half hectare to 1.5 hectares So that's... I think a good size to make something good and precise.
Speaker #0
And in the introduction, you talked about climate change. One of the things that people told me about TANAT is that it's kind of a great variety for the future. It was difficult to have it ripe at the beginning, like 10 years ago, potentially. Do you see the difference over the last 10 years?
Speaker #1
Yes, of course. But I think, you know, everything starts in the vineyard you need a viticulture very special my parents start with a very specific philosophy they replant the vineyard with a really high density so like in in bordeaux and burgundy maybe a little bit less plant per hectare but high density vineyard and they work on the on the yield how many close to upper plants we need with tana to have a It's a good ripeness, a good concentration, a good expression. So we work a lot on the viticulture for all this ripeness. After we picked everything by hand, that's really important because tannate is very fragile on the skin. So you need to pick by hand. You need to have a selection sorting table, very precise, to have the best berries. So we call it caviar. to do very... soft extraction, soft maceration. So yes, we work on the maturity and also on the quality of the grapes in the cellar and after the maceration. And the climate changed a lot. It's why the process in the vineyard has to be adapted every year, every vintage. Each week, you have to have the right interpretation of the climate. for the vintage. For example, now the vintage 2026 starts with maybe two or three weeks earlier. So that's crazy. We will pick maybe the middle of August. the first red so uh i want to make uh i don't want to make a concentrate red wine i want to make balance and fresh wine so we need to manage the vines the vineyard the soil and the way to uh to uh to pick the grapes to to make the most elegant wine you know 2019 35 degrees so my parents made wine with 15 degrees alcohol I don't want to go up 14. So 13, 13.5, that's a perfect balance in alcohol for our wine.
Speaker #0
Yeah, because this is kind of the reputation of the wines from Madiron and Southwest in general, is that it's powerful, strong, a lot of alcohol.
Speaker #1
Too much. But you have to understand, it's not the quantity of tannins who make the quality of the wine. So it's why we work a lot on the pH. So the acidity and the quality of the tannins. And this is the most important part of our work. And after extraction, I'm not a big fan of massive extraction, like pigage, remontage, twice a day. I prefer infusion, cold maceration, short fermentation, but long maceration. And we merge the cap and we do a very, very soft infusion. And we don't extract too much. To have the wine really, really balanced, I think. And with a young expression, pretty, you know, gentle. That's really important.
Speaker #0
I see behind you a picture. Actually, two pictures. So I guess this is the properties that you guys have. One of the things that is a bit sad about Southwest is that it's difficult to go there. for most people like it's not super well connected to no airports train station I guess it's coming now you have a TGV that will be yes you have a TGV something like that yeah closer you have a Mont-Narcin okay yeah but yes
Speaker #1
it's it's one hour and a half of drive with your car from Bordeaux from oh it's okay actually so it's not so far and when you are in southwest in Montus You are very close to the mountain. You are very close to the coast. It's one hour and a half of drive also. So it's an amazing place to visit, to walk, to enjoy new gastronomy. So I think it's a brand new, very fashion destination, Southwest, if you find a way to come.
Speaker #0
We will find a way to come one day. Do you welcome some guests? Are you open to visit?
Speaker #1
Yeah, we received around 5,000 last year, private customers at the domain.
Speaker #0
So 20 per day, almost.
Speaker #1
We have a chef who cooks all the vegetables we produce. We have all black pig aging. We have chicken, we have cows. Black pig aging. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So you have black pigs? Yeah,
Speaker #1
we have black pig.
Speaker #0
Oh, nice.
Speaker #1
Yeah. We cook what we produce, like 80%. So the chef cooks for all the employees every day. So we have a table, a very specific table. It's open every day for all our customers. So private customer, distributor, importer. journalists and and also the employees so it's open every day wow okay so we receive a lot of people we sell maybe 15 to 20 percent of our wine at the domain yeah it's huge yeah so that's i think it's it's uh it's uh our characteristic is to sell a lot of wine to the uh to the private customer yeah it's cool because it's a wine that you sell directly to people so yeah the right transmission and the good words.
Speaker #0
the best explanation to the wine you know this is something I kind of miss in Hong Kong when we were discussing before the start of the podcast I was telling you that I enjoy living here very much but the only thing I miss is this connection to agriculture and to land because so here you've not seen it that much but it's basically an island and so like there is almost no agriculture in Hong Kong so everything is imported And you can find good products imported. Like, for example, I have beef from Australia that are grass-fed, you know. Yesterday, we ate snails at the restaurant. That was really nice. But, you know, you don't have this connection to the terroir, to something that's been produced like 200 meters from where you're eating.
Speaker #1
That's why it's really important for us to share this opportunity to our guests and to arrive also to do the best pairing with wine. Because we like, my parents are passionate about wine, about gastronomy. It's why we developed this table. Our chef starts for... worked for a two and three stars restaurant before so it's a high level of gastronomy sample for a good price but you uh you discover the southwest with wine and food so it's a it's
Speaker #0
pretty unique experience i think um do you have other projects for brumont apart from montresen busquets like are you thinking sometime of uh expanding, going in other places. You talked about Joronçon in the introduction. Is it something you have in mind?
Speaker #1
I was with a geologue last week and we talked about terroir appellation and the Pyrenees. And he told me we find a lot of places like Madeira with the same diversity of soil in the bottom of the Pyrenees. Not L'Enseign, not Hirurigi, but other places with no vineyards for now. And he told me it will be a great place in 15, 20 years maybe to produce wine because, yeah, climate change, of course. But terroirs are pretty similar to our terroir. And we are always thinking about the future of the winemaking and the wine production. We are not going to plant vineyards. up to the north in France, we are going closer to the mountain. So maybe in the future, we can have maybe a small project closer to the Pyrenees in a new place. This could be an idea. And also, I really want to develop the production of the whites. And I want also to expand the notoriety of Montus and Bouscassé. increase the quality always so that's my my parents gave me uh in charge to increase quality so i want i want to try the best and um and yes uh work on the on the notoriety distribution yeah
Speaker #0
it's a it's a very hard project what you mentioned just before because if you have to start planting vines wait 15 20 years to have the good climate like it's a it's a bet actually on the future.
Speaker #1
Yes, but you know, when you buy a vineyard in Burgundy, it's 1 million euros per hectare. In our smaller region, it could be 5,000 euros. So it's this kind of project you can wait and you can invest.
Speaker #0
It's not the same size of it.
Speaker #1
And you can expect a great quality because we have the grapes and we have the terroir.
Speaker #0
and now the people start to really to really know that uh so yeah we'll see yeah 100 it's the type of place uh we talked about value for money a little bit but for me it's the type of place if you want to do something discover something it's the the the place where you can actually do it yeah so it's um yeah for sure um so you said that uh your parents are actually still working at the Vignote. What do they do? And, and, How do you continue working with them?
Speaker #1
So Alain is working, but he's taking a lot of pleasure also. He doesn't want to travel anymore, so he takes a lot of time. Like an ambassador, you know, he takes a lot of time with our customers who come to visit us at the domain. And my mother, she's in charge about all the marketing and the sales team.
Speaker #0
And she's still working?
Speaker #1
Yeah, she's working every day. So I'm working a lot with my mother and of course with Alain because he created the domain. So we talk a lot. We test always with Alain together for the testing, for all the blends. So this is really important for my team and for the new team because we are still very young to have Alain with a lot of knowledge. And another vision also of the wine. now he's pretty much outside of the business uh but he did uh foreign more than 45 vintages so it's really important to have the vision to have the relation with allen um every day yeah
Speaker #0
100 um we talked a bit about china about hong kong as well uh but are there other places where the market maybe is a bit more mature for i guess the us for you is no no no not the us the quebec
Speaker #1
uh canada it's a pretty pretty big market for us uh it's a historical market okay because uh alan started to to sell wine in in quebec uh 35 years ago uh because he don't speak english just speaks french so so it was his uh his own target and he really get it and uh it's one of our biggest markets we have in the world um and of course in in europe uh and uh in sweden it's also a pretty huge market for us um and uh but we develop i want to develop a lot of new market uh not huge market but small market with uh the right distribution with the best qv we have at the right place the on the the michelin stars restaurant where you have a good wine list with good sommelier. So we expand from some small new market for us. We are present in 46 markets in the world, but we have a target of 15 to 20 markets in the future to develop Montus.
Speaker #0
This is something that always amazes me when I talk to people making wines, is that you have a very local product. like uh in which you basically have a land, you have a lot of work to put in it. It's produced locally. But then it's sent worldwide and can be drunk for like 10 dozens of years. And it always makes me crazy. The fact that we have you in Hong Kong right now, it's amazing because a few days ago, you must have been in the vineyard.
Speaker #1
I was in the vineyard yesterday and I will be on the vineyard on Monday. So yes, it's... It's a crazy job. You produce, you transform, you sell, you talk about, you create experience, you tell a story. So yes, it's an amazing job. Very complete. I think you need more than one life to really manage all of them, all the parts. But yeah, it's why it's really, really important to build a strong team around you. to believe on the project and to follow you.
Speaker #0
Well, if you are recruiting or if you have some needs, we'll put some links in the description to your websites and everything. So it's definitely something if you guys are looking for a job in the wine industry that you're good and ready to move to the Southwest, I guess if you need people in the team.
Speaker #1
Harvest is coming.
Speaker #0
If you want to do the harvest, yeah, true, it's a very good idea. Nice. Are there... Topics that we didn't mention, but that are very important for you.
Speaker #1
I don't know. We talk about a lot of things.
Speaker #0
Do you have a crazy souvenir of like a tasting or something with Montus? Yes,
Speaker #1
with Montus. With Montus. My first tasting I have done in Montus when I come back to the domain was to understand the terroir and the expression of Montus. So we did a vertical with Alain. because for me to respect Montus and the expression, I'm supposed to really understand Montus terroir. So we start with the first vintage of Montus in 1982 to the 2017. And it was a really nice experience to discover the evolution, the impact of the winemaking, the aging of the vines. how the expression changed after 15, 20, 30 years. So yeah, that was a great experience for me. And I continue to do that every two or three years with all our single vineyard to really feel if we are on the right direction.
Speaker #0
All right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for this. It was a very cool interview. I learned a lot of things about the Southwest and the region. Can't wait to come to see you next time we're in France. You're welcome. We'll be more than happy to come.
Speaker #1
You're welcome.
Speaker #0
I have three last questions that are always the same. The first one is, do you have a book recommendation for me?
Speaker #1
Yes. Marcel Pagnol, La Gloire de mon Père.
Speaker #0
Ah, nice. Nice. About the countryside. yes i love uh i love this book um do you have a recent wine that you tasted and and that was emotional for you that an emotion that you had um i'm i think i'm young to to uh to have drink
Speaker #1
my last best wine i think but the last one i really um like uh it was a blind testing with Chateau Fijac 1985. Nice. Yeah. One of the best cru from Saint-Emilion. 100%.
Speaker #0
Recently promoted I think. I think you went from Class B to Class A two years ago. Two years ago, yeah. To the last Saint-Emilion classification. All right. And finally, who is the next person I should interview?
Speaker #1
The next person was here uh, like 15 minutes ago. It's a very good friend of me. He's making wine, of course. Hugues Laborde. Ah, yes, Hugues. You know him?
Speaker #0
No, but we have crossed some importers and distributors that work with him. So I drank his wine Newcomer there. Yes, exactly. I drank it two days ago at a restaurant.
Speaker #1
So you have to do the interview with him.
Speaker #0
100%. Can't hand me. Thank you very much, Antoine, for this. If you guys like this interview, don't forget to share it and to subscribe. and if you want to have amazing moments go to the southwest go discover the black pigs and the wines and the petits courbus for the whites yeah come to the southwest see you soon bye bye bye thank you merci avec plaisir c'était très cool c'était chaud

Chapters

Intro – Antoine of Château Montus & Bouscassé at Vinexpo Hong Kong
0sec
Growing up in Madiran: second generation of the Brumont estates
36sec
Training in Champagne, Burgundy, Guigal, Bordeaux, Australia & Oregon
3min
Taking charge at 24: succession, new team, new style of Tannat
6min
Madiran terroir explained: Pyrenees soils, grapes & Southwest gastronomy
10min
Tasting La Tyre 2019: 100% Tannat single vineyard at 260 m
14min
Selling Madiran in Asia: Hong Kong, sommeliers and value for money
16min
Inside the estates: 90 hectares, 15 cuvées and the rise of the whites
20min
Climate change & Tannat: earlier harvests, fresher, lower-alcohol wines
22min
Wine tourism in Southwest France: 5,000 visitors, farm-to-table, black pig
26min
Future projects near the Pyrenees & working with Alain Brumont today
30min
Export markets, a 1982–2017 vertical tasting and final recommendations
35min

About Wine Makers Show: the wine podcast

Join us on Wine Makers Show, the podcast that uncorks the world of wine! Hosted by Antoine, a passionate entrepreneur and wine enthusiast, this show dives deep into the stories, expertise, and journeys of the people who make wine extraordinary: winemakers, sommeliers, vintners, and industry trailblazers.

What to Expect

In-Depth Interviews: Hear from top figures in the wine world, from renowned vintners to unsung heroes, as they share their experiences, challenges, and secrets to success.
Club Episodes: Explore specific wine topics, from production techniques to tasting tips, in focused, occasional deep dives.
A Journey of Discovery: Whether you're a novice or a connoisseur, we break down the complexities of wine to make it accessible and engaging.

Why Listen?

Wine Makers Show is your gateway to understanding wine like never before. With a focus on storytelling and sharing, Antoine brings you closer to the heart of the wine industry, one conversation at a time. Expect authentic discussions, insider knowledge, and a celebration of the craft and culture of wine.

Connect with Us

Visit winemakersshow.com to get in touch or suggest a guest.
Email Antoine directly at winemakersshow@gmail.com.
Follow the journey on Instagram: @winemakersshow
Join the Academy and learn everything about wine

Tune in to Wine Makers Show and sip on the stories behind every bottle!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Wine Makers Show: the wine podcast

What to Expect

In-Depth Interviews: Hear from top figures in the wine world, from renowned vintners to unsung heroes, as they share their experiences, challenges, and secrets to success.
Club Episodes: Explore specific wine topics, from production techniques to tasting tips, in focused, occasional deep dives.
A Journey of Discovery: Whether you're a novice or a connoisseur, we break down the complexities of wine to make it accessible and engaging.

Why Listen?

Connect with Us

Visit winemakersshow.com to get in touch or suggest a guest.
Email Antoine directly at winemakersshow@gmail.com.
Follow the journey on Instagram: @winemakersshow
Join the Academy and learn everything about wine

Tune in to Wine Makers Show and sip on the stories behind every bottle!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

▬▬ 🎁 GIFTS 🎁 ▬▬

📚 La Gloire de mon père, by Marcel Pagnol

🍷 Learn more about Brumont: Château Montus and Château Bouscassé

🎁 Get your wine essentials on our shop: a curated selection of wine accessories, posters and much more

🗺️ Get the best French Wine Map: as information as decorative

▬▬ ⭐️ ABOUT ⭐️ ▬▬

ALCOHOL ABUSE IS DANGEROUS FOUR YOUR HEALTH. CONSUME IN MODERATION.

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Transcription

Speaker #0
All right, let's go. Hi Antoine.
Speaker #1
Hi.
Speaker #0
Thank you very much, Antoine as well. Today you have two Antoine for the price of one, so that's pretty nice. Thank you very much for welcoming me here on your booth during VINEXPO. I know it's been quite a few days of intensity and a lot of things happening here in Hong Kong.
Speaker #1
Yes.
Speaker #0
So thank you very much for taking the time. So we are Thursday actually, it's the end of VINEXPO. We can see all the stands tearing down.
Speaker #1
Perfect time to take time and to speak about wine.
Speaker #0
To share a glass and discuss together. I have a lot of questions, but first, can you introduce yourself?
Speaker #1
So, yes, my name is Antoine Véry. I come from southwest of France. We are Vigneron in Madiran, a very small area. And I grew up in this region. So my stepfather, Alain Brumont, and my mother own this company since... the they are the first generation of this of this domain chateau montus and chateau buscasse and i am i am the second one so uh i grew up on the company i grew up in countryside i learned wine business in the world and in france uh so a large experience everywhere and and now now i am in charge about one making and uh and uh and pretty much everything uh so it's a very very um it's a huge challenge i think for me but
Speaker #0
I really like it yeah so you you always like you grew up in the vineyards basically yes yeah
Speaker #1
I arrived at Montus and Bouscassé I was 9 years old so I pretty much yeah grew up on the on the field yeah so it's we are 5 brothers and sisters and I'm the only one work on the wine business so we had a we had same education uh work in the vineyard in the cellar uh in our big warehouse uh where we have all the the wine in the storage and i decide uh to to do this job after a few few years uh at yeah maybe 16 or 17 years old how
Speaker #0
did you decide that it was like you were in love with uh the the wine with being outside with the product or yeah i'm um
Speaker #1
I really like the terroir. I really like the work in the agriculture in general. Since I'm young, I want to work on this kind of environment. But I decided to really work on the wine business after work with my stepfather, my mother, during summer, winter, during all my holidays, when I was at school. And I said, okay. Maybe I can start something with my parents. And I started my first internship in 2011 in Champagne. And I said, OK, let's go. Let's do this experience for now. And after this job, if I can do that.
Speaker #0
And so you started in Champagne with this first internship? And then you did other experiences in the world?
Speaker #1
I did five years at school in Bordeaux. And in each year, I had experience to do in different regions. So I did Champagne, I did Burgundy, Côte d'Uron, Roussillon, Bordeaux. And after I traveled in Australia and Oregon. So yeah, I had a few experiences before to come back to the domain with different types of domain. different size um so yeah it's it was a great opportunity because my parents have a lot of contacts everywhere in the wine business and i say okay um i'm i'm ready for this kind of training you know traveling a lot um and work with uh other people other producer um different region different concept different philosophy And now I build my own concept with Montus and all the ideas and the concepts I learn everywhere.
Speaker #0
So what did you learn elsewhere and that you want to apply in Montus and Muscassin?
Speaker #1
It depends on which region. When I work in Champagne, I work a lot with, I work for Anselm Sélos. Okay. So one of the best charismatic. producer in Champagne, very special, brilliant guy in viticulture and winemaking and aging. So I learned a lot in the aging. process uh and i really like long aging uh for all the red and the whites we make now i continue this uh this experience with long aging with gigal i work for gigal in ronvalet they do also three four five years of aging in oak uh with uh with the syrah um so i really i really learned about the singularity and the expression of terroir and uh how to age on the best way to wine to have something very drinkable younger and also to have the biggest complexity of the terroir and the grapes. In Bordeaux, I learned a lot in winemaking, how to make a wine softer on the tannins, how to extract the best quality of the wine, how to manage the vineyard to don't have a huge stress on the vineyard, to have a... The perfect quality of tannins with tannins is really, really important because it's a powerful grape. I learned a lot also for the marketing and commercial part also in Bordeaux because it's a very specific way to sell wine with Laplace, with the negotiations, etc. And when I worked also in Oregon and in Australia, I worked in the New World. So the climate change, a lot in France, in Europe. And in this new world, wine, you have already this kind of difficult climate to grow vines. So I learned a lot on the viticulture also.
Speaker #0
So you learned all of this. You come back to the family estate. You must have been like 24. So you come back and immediately you're like, I want to become the manager of the estate. How does this happen?
Speaker #1
You know, when you, Alain is born in Chateau Bouscassé, it was a family property, but the parents of Alain didn't have a brand. They don't have a huge notoriety with Chateau Bouscassé. Maybe just 10% of the production was in the bottle. So Alain start with nothing from the beginning. And you know, when you live in the countryside, you're supposed to be the employees of your parents. your parents until they are retired so alan has a as a education old school education and i pretty much are the same so you know when it's good you don't say if it's good or not you know he say if it's bad yes but not if it's good uh and he don't tell the the the vision he don't he don't talk too much so you have to think through it analyze it yeah yeah so I come back to the domain. I was in the vineyard, in the cellar. I worked pretty much everywhere. And one day I had the feeling I was supposed to be in charge one day. So I started to work like I was in charge about the viticulture and the onology. So I started to move some details in the winemaking, in the vineyard. And I would like one day to build my own team. My parents built a team in the vineyard, in the cellar. Great winemaker, but they spent maybe 30 years in our domain. And I would like to have my new generation winemaker also. So, yeah, I developed the team. And also I developed the character of the wine I would like to make. Maybe more contemporary. I want to preserve the style, the identity, the touch of the Tannat on this terroir. The singularity of the wine also, of course. But I want to bring something more maybe fresh, more elegant, more easy to drink with complexity. You know, it's a very fashion to make something easy. Just easy. After two years, after a glass of wine, you forget the wine. And after two years, you... You can't continue to drink the wine. I want to make something for a long time. Wine, for me, it's time. It's time in the vineyard. It's time in the cellar. It's time in the bottle. So you have to be very patient. It's what I want to continue to build with Montus. It's customer and market very passion for Android, and I appreciate the wine.
Speaker #0
It's very interesting what you said about Um, I felt that I wanted to be in charge someday, so I started behaving like I was in charge. Yeah,
Speaker #1
sometimes if you wait, it never happens. So you have to start something. When you are 24, you don't really feel what is the good way or what is the wrong way. And you don't feel what is bad or good. And you have your parents in the back. So if you do something wrong, you always have something on the back to say.
Speaker #0
They will tell you. Yeah,
Speaker #1
exactly. Now they start to be old. They continue to work with me. but I feel I'm in charge at 80%, maybe 90%
Speaker #0
now. Plus, you must feel that they trust way, way more than a few years ago. Yeah,
Speaker #1
of course. I'm 32 now. So, yeah, I think after 30 years old, you start to have everything organized in your head and you start to really feel and to really know where you want to go.
Speaker #0
Yeah, 100%. Can you describe a bit, so Montus and Bouscassé, so it's from the southwest. We know a little bit about the southwest because we visited a few years ago, we visited Plemont. So in the monastery and then we went into Saint-Mont, which is close to you. And I think you have some appellations, Madiron, it's in common with them. They have also some Madiron. So we know a little bit about the southwest, but really not that much. So can you like explain a bit more what it looks like what your wines look like uh what are the like um how the countryside is uh yeah the southwest is a beautiful region for i love it for um armagnac but also armagnac gastronomy yeah
Speaker #1
foie gras canard duck yeah truffle caviar that's black pig this is a huge region for gastronomy alain ducasse said if the French gastronomy lost Southwest, we lost 70% of the gastronomic product. So Southwest is a huge place for food, great food, great product, for a good price. It's always a very good value in Southwest. The wine, the food, and everything. What is really special, it's a grape variety we have. for the white wine. So we have Petit Courbu, Petit Manser, Gros Manser. This is our local grapes, very specific grapes from the Piedmont of the Pyrenees. We have also Tanate, Cabernet Franc, and Cabernet Sauvignon. So this is our three grapes for the red. We have a very specific terroir also because you know, if you look at the The most famous region in the world of wine. They are all close or made by the creation of Montaigne. So close to the Pyrenees, you have the Pays Basque, you have also Gironson, close to Pau, and you have Madiran and all the Languedoc-Roussillon. All those appellations were created with the elevation of the Pyrenees. So all the sediments, the clay, the stone. in our appellation, come from the Pyrenees. So we have a huge diversity of terroir because we are very close to the mountain. So two different characteristics. Bouscassé, it's limestone and clay. And Montus, it's clay and river stone. So two different characteristics. If you want to compare very shortly, you can say right bank, left bank. Right bank with the limestone in Saint-Emilion, same as Bouscassé. and the gravel and the clay from the medoc, the same as Montus. So very similar expression of our wine in two different types of soil. And our wines are amazing for aging. Of course, now, because of the climate, the climate changes a lot, it changes really fast. It's easier and easier for our generation now to make good vintage almost every year. because we have a great weather. We can pick on a ripe condition all the time, almost all the time. So we don't have any more problem on the quality of the tannins, on the ripeness of the tannins, the freshness, the natural acidity, because high in elevation, close to the mountains, so very fresh climate. So we have a high acidity wine, and this is amazing for maturation, aging. in the bottle and in the time.
Speaker #0
Maybe we can try together, if you want?
Speaker #1
Yes, we can try red or you want...
Speaker #0
Yeah, let's just share a glass of this one. Let's make it easy for us. Thanks. So this is Latire, this is Montus, okay.
Speaker #1
Yeah, this is Latire, it's a single vineyard from Montus. It's 2.5 hectares, highest elevation vineyard, 260 meters of altitude. So pretty high and you have a very specific expression of Tanat. It's 100% Tanat, it's vintage 2019. And this one is aged for three years, one year in barrack and two years in a big volume, big wood, big cask.
Speaker #0
And it's actually very good. Yes. I love that it's super ripe as well. Because sometimes with tannate, you have a lot of like, you know, how do you say, like herbal notes, you know. like poivron, that type of things.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
It's not the case at all. There is tannate inside of this?
Speaker #1
100%.
Speaker #0
Oh, wow.
Speaker #1
Yeah, this is 100% tannate.
Speaker #0
Oh, that's cool.
Speaker #1
Yeah, all our single vineyards are made with 100% tannate. To have one grapes, one terroir, it's very unique, very...
Speaker #0
Ah, so you don't blend the...
Speaker #1
With this one, no.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
With Montus, we have Cab Franc and Cabernet Sauvignon. But with Lathier, it's a single vineyard. 100% than that.
Speaker #0
No, that's cool. And so how is the market for you? Because so you said, especially in Asia. So like you said that Southwest is always good value. And this is something that always strikes me when I see wines from the Southwest. But basically everything you said from the Southwest, like every food from the Southwest is basically not super expensive for what it is. Like the value that you can have for your money is insane. So how do you manage this? How do you also go on the Asian markets? Because here in Hong Kong, like you have some people that are very passionate and precise on what they want, but most of the time they also want to have the like most expensive, most exclusive or, you know.
Speaker #1
I think Southwest is pretty exclusive because we don't produce a massive production of wine. And also sommelier has a great knowledge about wine. And Montus started to be famous in the 80s, 90s. So you find a lot of back vintages on the market in Hong Kong, in Taiwan, in Vietnam, in Japan, in Korea. So I think the notoriety starts 30 years ago in the market. So the first generation of sommelier at this time. I really enjoy Montus because it was, you know, a challenger for the Grand Cru from Bordeaux. I don't want to be the same now, but I think it's also in the mind of a lot of sommeliers now. Montus, it's always and today also a good challenger for a very good value price. So we continue to develop restaurants with good sommeliers. And... Yeah, I think it's it's much your market. You know, people know the wine. They know about wine. They are open minded. So I'm I have a good feeling with the market now. We just restarted in Hong Kong now since one year.
Speaker #0
So you have a distributor here in Port-au-Prince.
Speaker #1
Yeah, but it's first time for me here now. Today. You like it so far?
Speaker #0
I'm mature just all right now?
Speaker #1
Just all right. yesterday night i spent a day in the on the fair so i don't know how look hong kong so but i will come back for sure uh at the end of the year uh to uh to visit to really understand the atmosphere of the city because if you want to to to sell your wine you have to understand where you are and with what kind of wine you you you need to uh to sell uh first so yeah it's uh i think when you make wine you have to have a the feeling with your grapes and the terroir you When you sell wine, you have to have the feeling also with your partner, your distributor, sommelier, the region, the food, etc.
Speaker #0
You have to also make them passionate about your product. Yeah, of course. And this, you cannot do it if you're not really here or if there is not someone actually here to say, this is Montus, let's drink it together. I will explain to you. I will show you the pictures of our place. Picture,
Speaker #1
take a glass, drink, good food, good pairing. This is...
Speaker #0
the the rules i think so uh so montus buscasse two different terroirs two different domains two different uh domains yes and you uh and so you how big is it uh so montus now it's um
Speaker #1
42 hectares okay uh with uh with five hectares not in production so um so you have 37 hectares in in production now okay And Bouscassé, it's 48 hectares. So it's a pretty nice size for work because we have a large diversity of terroir. We have a young vineyard, old vines, and we can make a lot of single vineyards in Bouscassé and Montus. So we have around 15 different cuvées, white and red, and we develop more and more and more the whites. I think the new generation in Asia, I don't know for now, but she will discover the whites in a few years, I think, because it's something very new for Asian people, I think, white wine, except Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc. But our grapes, it's a new profile. It's a new style, new expression, very floral, very fruity, very fresh, very elegant. home. I expand the production of the white in France. So for this kind of market also.
Speaker #0
But even, I guess, even for Europe or the US, people drink less and less red wines. It's not like for dinner. I don't know how you feel about it, but from what I see, it's...
Speaker #1
Yes, the consumer likes white more and more. But in this city, for example, people are... Southwest, for example, we are well known for red, not for whites. So we need to work on that. I believe in the whites. And I believe in the sommelier to work with. So, yeah.
Speaker #0
So, yeah, so you are approximately the size of 100 hectares if we... Yeah,
Speaker #1
divided by two domains. Yeah,
Speaker #0
divided by two domains. So, as you said, it's a pretty nice size because it's still... accessible in terms of management great playground you can still do a lot of things you do so you said you do 50 different wines 15 15 okay five zero uh one five and not five five zero okay 15 yes i was like wow these guys are really making yeah we do a lot of single vineyard uh not a not a huge quantity but uh
Speaker #1
2000 bottle 5000 bottle uh so it's pretty much half hectare to 1.5 hectares So that's... I think a good size to make something good and precise.
Speaker #0
And in the introduction, you talked about climate change. One of the things that people told me about TANAT is that it's kind of a great variety for the future. It was difficult to have it ripe at the beginning, like 10 years ago, potentially. Do you see the difference over the last 10 years?
Speaker #1
Yes, of course. But I think, you know, everything starts in the vineyard you need a viticulture very special my parents start with a very specific philosophy they replant the vineyard with a really high density so like in in bordeaux and burgundy maybe a little bit less plant per hectare but high density vineyard and they work on the on the yield how many close to upper plants we need with tana to have a It's a good ripeness, a good concentration, a good expression. So we work a lot on the viticulture for all this ripeness. After we picked everything by hand, that's really important because tannate is very fragile on the skin. So you need to pick by hand. You need to have a selection sorting table, very precise, to have the best berries. So we call it caviar. to do very... soft extraction, soft maceration. So yes, we work on the maturity and also on the quality of the grapes in the cellar and after the maceration. And the climate changed a lot. It's why the process in the vineyard has to be adapted every year, every vintage. Each week, you have to have the right interpretation of the climate. for the vintage. For example, now the vintage 2026 starts with maybe two or three weeks earlier. So that's crazy. We will pick maybe the middle of August. the first red so uh i want to make uh i don't want to make a concentrate red wine i want to make balance and fresh wine so we need to manage the vines the vineyard the soil and the way to uh to uh to pick the grapes to to make the most elegant wine you know 2019 35 degrees so my parents made wine with 15 degrees alcohol I don't want to go up 14. So 13, 13.5, that's a perfect balance in alcohol for our wine.
Speaker #0
Yeah, because this is kind of the reputation of the wines from Madiron and Southwest in general, is that it's powerful, strong, a lot of alcohol.
Speaker #1
Too much. But you have to understand, it's not the quantity of tannins who make the quality of the wine. So it's why we work a lot on the pH. So the acidity and the quality of the tannins. And this is the most important part of our work. And after extraction, I'm not a big fan of massive extraction, like pigage, remontage, twice a day. I prefer infusion, cold maceration, short fermentation, but long maceration. And we merge the cap and we do a very, very soft infusion. And we don't extract too much. To have the wine really, really balanced, I think. And with a young expression, pretty, you know, gentle. That's really important.
Speaker #0
I see behind you a picture. Actually, two pictures. So I guess this is the properties that you guys have. One of the things that is a bit sad about Southwest is that it's difficult to go there. for most people like it's not super well connected to no airports train station I guess it's coming now you have a TGV that will be yes you have a TGV something like that yeah closer you have a Mont-Narcin okay yeah but yes
Speaker #1
it's it's one hour and a half of drive with your car from Bordeaux from oh it's okay actually so it's not so far and when you are in southwest in Montus You are very close to the mountain. You are very close to the coast. It's one hour and a half of drive also. So it's an amazing place to visit, to walk, to enjoy new gastronomy. So I think it's a brand new, very fashion destination, Southwest, if you find a way to come.
Speaker #0
We will find a way to come one day. Do you welcome some guests? Are you open to visit?
Speaker #1
Yeah, we received around 5,000 last year, private customers at the domain.
Speaker #0
So 20 per day, almost.
Speaker #1
We have a chef who cooks all the vegetables we produce. We have all black pig aging. We have chicken, we have cows. Black pig aging. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So you have black pigs? Yeah,
Speaker #1
we have black pig.
Speaker #0
Oh, nice.
Speaker #1
Yeah. We cook what we produce, like 80%. So the chef cooks for all the employees every day. So we have a table, a very specific table. It's open every day for all our customers. So private customer, distributor, importer. journalists and and also the employees so it's open every day wow okay so we receive a lot of people we sell maybe 15 to 20 percent of our wine at the domain yeah it's huge yeah so that's i think it's it's uh it's uh our characteristic is to sell a lot of wine to the uh to the private customer yeah it's cool because it's a wine that you sell directly to people so yeah the right transmission and the good words.
Speaker #0
the best explanation to the wine you know this is something I kind of miss in Hong Kong when we were discussing before the start of the podcast I was telling you that I enjoy living here very much but the only thing I miss is this connection to agriculture and to land because so here you've not seen it that much but it's basically an island and so like there is almost no agriculture in Hong Kong so everything is imported And you can find good products imported. Like, for example, I have beef from Australia that are grass-fed, you know. Yesterday, we ate snails at the restaurant. That was really nice. But, you know, you don't have this connection to the terroir, to something that's been produced like 200 meters from where you're eating.
Speaker #1
That's why it's really important for us to share this opportunity to our guests and to arrive also to do the best pairing with wine. Because we like, my parents are passionate about wine, about gastronomy. It's why we developed this table. Our chef starts for... worked for a two and three stars restaurant before so it's a high level of gastronomy sample for a good price but you uh you discover the southwest with wine and food so it's a it's
Speaker #0
pretty unique experience i think um do you have other projects for brumont apart from montresen busquets like are you thinking sometime of uh expanding, going in other places. You talked about Joronçon in the introduction. Is it something you have in mind?
Speaker #1
I was with a geologue last week and we talked about terroir appellation and the Pyrenees. And he told me we find a lot of places like Madeira with the same diversity of soil in the bottom of the Pyrenees. Not L'Enseign, not Hirurigi, but other places with no vineyards for now. And he told me it will be a great place in 15, 20 years maybe to produce wine because, yeah, climate change, of course. But terroirs are pretty similar to our terroir. And we are always thinking about the future of the winemaking and the wine production. We are not going to plant vineyards. up to the north in France, we are going closer to the mountain. So maybe in the future, we can have maybe a small project closer to the Pyrenees in a new place. This could be an idea. And also, I really want to develop the production of the whites. And I want also to expand the notoriety of Montus and Bouscassé. increase the quality always so that's my my parents gave me uh in charge to increase quality so i want i want to try the best and um and yes uh work on the on the notoriety distribution yeah
Speaker #0
it's a it's a very hard project what you mentioned just before because if you have to start planting vines wait 15 20 years to have the good climate like it's a it's a bet actually on the future.
Speaker #1
Yes, but you know, when you buy a vineyard in Burgundy, it's 1 million euros per hectare. In our smaller region, it could be 5,000 euros. So it's this kind of project you can wait and you can invest.
Speaker #0
It's not the same size of it.
Speaker #1
And you can expect a great quality because we have the grapes and we have the terroir.
Speaker #0
and now the people start to really to really know that uh so yeah we'll see yeah 100 it's the type of place uh we talked about value for money a little bit but for me it's the type of place if you want to do something discover something it's the the the place where you can actually do it yeah so it's um yeah for sure um so you said that uh your parents are actually still working at the Vignote. What do they do? And, and, How do you continue working with them?
Speaker #1
So Alain is working, but he's taking a lot of pleasure also. He doesn't want to travel anymore, so he takes a lot of time. Like an ambassador, you know, he takes a lot of time with our customers who come to visit us at the domain. And my mother, she's in charge about all the marketing and the sales team.
Speaker #0
And she's still working?
Speaker #1
Yeah, she's working every day. So I'm working a lot with my mother and of course with Alain because he created the domain. So we talk a lot. We test always with Alain together for the testing, for all the blends. So this is really important for my team and for the new team because we are still very young to have Alain with a lot of knowledge. And another vision also of the wine. now he's pretty much outside of the business uh but he did uh foreign more than 45 vintages so it's really important to have the vision to have the relation with allen um every day yeah
Speaker #0
100 um we talked a bit about china about hong kong as well uh but are there other places where the market maybe is a bit more mature for i guess the us for you is no no no not the us the quebec
Speaker #1
uh canada it's a pretty pretty big market for us uh it's a historical market okay because uh alan started to to sell wine in in quebec uh 35 years ago uh because he don't speak english just speaks french so so it was his uh his own target and he really get it and uh it's one of our biggest markets we have in the world um and of course in in europe uh and uh in sweden it's also a pretty huge market for us um and uh but we develop i want to develop a lot of new market uh not huge market but small market with uh the right distribution with the best qv we have at the right place the on the the michelin stars restaurant where you have a good wine list with good sommelier. So we expand from some small new market for us. We are present in 46 markets in the world, but we have a target of 15 to 20 markets in the future to develop Montus.
Speaker #0
This is something that always amazes me when I talk to people making wines, is that you have a very local product. like uh in which you basically have a land, you have a lot of work to put in it. It's produced locally. But then it's sent worldwide and can be drunk for like 10 dozens of years. And it always makes me crazy. The fact that we have you in Hong Kong right now, it's amazing because a few days ago, you must have been in the vineyard.
Speaker #1
I was in the vineyard yesterday and I will be on the vineyard on Monday. So yes, it's... It's a crazy job. You produce, you transform, you sell, you talk about, you create experience, you tell a story. So yes, it's an amazing job. Very complete. I think you need more than one life to really manage all of them, all the parts. But yeah, it's why it's really, really important to build a strong team around you. to believe on the project and to follow you.
Speaker #0
Well, if you are recruiting or if you have some needs, we'll put some links in the description to your websites and everything. So it's definitely something if you guys are looking for a job in the wine industry that you're good and ready to move to the Southwest, I guess if you need people in the team.
Speaker #1
Harvest is coming.
Speaker #0
If you want to do the harvest, yeah, true, it's a very good idea. Nice. Are there... Topics that we didn't mention, but that are very important for you.
Speaker #1
I don't know. We talk about a lot of things.
Speaker #0
Do you have a crazy souvenir of like a tasting or something with Montus? Yes,
Speaker #1
with Montus. With Montus. My first tasting I have done in Montus when I come back to the domain was to understand the terroir and the expression of Montus. So we did a vertical with Alain. because for me to respect Montus and the expression, I'm supposed to really understand Montus terroir. So we start with the first vintage of Montus in 1982 to the 2017. And it was a really nice experience to discover the evolution, the impact of the winemaking, the aging of the vines. how the expression changed after 15, 20, 30 years. So yeah, that was a great experience for me. And I continue to do that every two or three years with all our single vineyard to really feel if we are on the right direction.
Speaker #0
All right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for this. It was a very cool interview. I learned a lot of things about the Southwest and the region. Can't wait to come to see you next time we're in France. You're welcome. We'll be more than happy to come.
Speaker #1
You're welcome.
Speaker #0
I have three last questions that are always the same. The first one is, do you have a book recommendation for me?
Speaker #1
Yes. Marcel Pagnol, La Gloire de mon Père.
Speaker #0
Ah, nice. Nice. About the countryside. yes i love uh i love this book um do you have a recent wine that you tasted and and that was emotional for you that an emotion that you had um i'm i think i'm young to to uh to have drink
Speaker #1
my last best wine i think but the last one i really um like uh it was a blind testing with Chateau Fijac 1985. Nice. Yeah. One of the best cru from Saint-Emilion. 100%.
Speaker #0
Recently promoted I think. I think you went from Class B to Class A two years ago. Two years ago, yeah. To the last Saint-Emilion classification. All right. And finally, who is the next person I should interview?
Speaker #1
The next person was here uh, like 15 minutes ago. It's a very good friend of me. He's making wine, of course. Hugues Laborde. Ah, yes, Hugues. You know him?
Speaker #0
No, but we have crossed some importers and distributors that work with him. So I drank his wine Newcomer there. Yes, exactly. I drank it two days ago at a restaurant.
Speaker #1
So you have to do the interview with him.
Speaker #0
100%. Can't hand me. Thank you very much, Antoine, for this. If you guys like this interview, don't forget to share it and to subscribe. and if you want to have amazing moments go to the southwest go discover the black pigs and the wines and the petits courbus for the whites yeah come to the southwest see you soon bye bye bye thank you merci avec plaisir c'était très cool c'était chaud

Chapters

Intro – Antoine of Château Montus & Bouscassé at Vinexpo Hong Kong
0sec
Growing up in Madiran: second generation of the Brumont estates
36sec
Training in Champagne, Burgundy, Guigal, Bordeaux, Australia & Oregon
3min
Taking charge at 24: succession, new team, new style of Tannat
6min
Madiran terroir explained: Pyrenees soils, grapes & Southwest gastronomy
10min
Tasting La Tyre 2019: 100% Tannat single vineyard at 260 m
14min
Selling Madiran in Asia: Hong Kong, sommeliers and value for money
16min
Inside the estates: 90 hectares, 15 cuvées and the rise of the whites
20min
Climate change & Tannat: earlier harvests, fresher, lower-alcohol wines
22min
Wine tourism in Southwest France: 5,000 visitors, farm-to-table, black pig
26min
Future projects near the Pyrenees & working with Alain Brumont today
30min
Export markets, a 1982–2017 vertical tasting and final recommendations
35min

About Wine Makers Show: the wine podcast

What to Expect

In-Depth Interviews: Hear from top figures in the wine world, from renowned vintners to unsung heroes, as they share their experiences, challenges, and secrets to success.
Club Episodes: Explore specific wine topics, from production techniques to tasting tips, in focused, occasional deep dives.
A Journey of Discovery: Whether you're a novice or a connoisseur, we break down the complexities of wine to make it accessible and engaging.

Why Listen?

Connect with Us

Visit winemakersshow.com to get in touch or suggest a guest.
Email Antoine directly at winemakersshow@gmail.com.
Follow the journey on Instagram: @winemakersshow
Join the Academy and learn everything about wine

Tune in to Wine Makers Show and sip on the stories behind every bottle!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Wine Makers Show: the wine podcast

What to Expect

In-Depth Interviews: Hear from top figures in the wine world, from renowned vintners to unsung heroes, as they share their experiences, challenges, and secrets to success.
Club Episodes: Explore specific wine topics, from production techniques to tasting tips, in focused, occasional deep dives.
A Journey of Discovery: Whether you're a novice or a connoisseur, we break down the complexities of wine to make it accessible and engaging.

Why Listen?

Connect with Us

Visit winemakersshow.com to get in touch or suggest a guest.
Email Antoine directly at winemakersshow@gmail.com.
Follow the journey on Instagram: @winemakersshow
Join the Academy and learn everything about wine

Tune in to Wine Makers Show and sip on the stories behind every bottle!

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Embed

Intro – Antoine of Château Montus & Bouscassé at Vinexpo Hong Kong

0sec

Growing up in Madiran: second generation of the Brumont estates

36sec

Training in Champagne, Burgundy, Guigal, Bordeaux, Australia & Oregon

3min

Taking charge at 24: succession, new team, new style of Tannat

6min

Madiran terroir explained: Pyrenees soils, grapes & Southwest gastronomy

10min

Tasting La Tyre 2019: 100% Tannat single vineyard at 260 m

14min

Selling Madiran in Asia: Hong Kong, sommeliers and value for money

16min

Inside the estates: 90 hectares, 15 cuvées and the rise of the whites

20min

Climate change & Tannat: earlier harvests, fresher, lower-alcohol wines

22min

Wine tourism in Southwest France: 5,000 visitors, farm-to-table, black pig

26min

Future projects near the Pyrenees & working with Alain Brumont today

30min

Export markets, a 1982–2017 vertical tasting and final recommendations

35min

Transcription

Speaker #0
All right, let's go. Hi Antoine.
Speaker #1
Hi.
Speaker #0
Thank you very much, Antoine as well. Today you have two Antoine for the price of one, so that's pretty nice. Thank you very much for welcoming me here on your booth during VINEXPO. I know it's been quite a few days of intensity and a lot of things happening here in Hong Kong.
Speaker #1
Yes.
Speaker #0
So thank you very much for taking the time. So we are Thursday actually, it's the end of VINEXPO. We can see all the stands tearing down.
Speaker #1
Perfect time to take time and to speak about wine.
Speaker #0
To share a glass and discuss together. I have a lot of questions, but first, can you introduce yourself?
Speaker #1
So, yes, my name is Antoine Véry. I come from southwest of France. We are Vigneron in Madiran, a very small area. And I grew up in this region. So my stepfather, Alain Brumont, and my mother own this company since... the they are the first generation of this of this domain chateau montus and chateau buscasse and i am i am the second one so uh i grew up on the company i grew up in countryside i learned wine business in the world and in france uh so a large experience everywhere and and now now i am in charge about one making and uh and uh and pretty much everything uh so it's a very very um it's a huge challenge i think for me but
Speaker #0
I really like it yeah so you you always like you grew up in the vineyards basically yes yeah
Speaker #1
I arrived at Montus and Bouscassé I was 9 years old so I pretty much yeah grew up on the on the field yeah so it's we are 5 brothers and sisters and I'm the only one work on the wine business so we had a we had same education uh work in the vineyard in the cellar uh in our big warehouse uh where we have all the the wine in the storage and i decide uh to to do this job after a few few years uh at yeah maybe 16 or 17 years old how
Speaker #0
did you decide that it was like you were in love with uh the the wine with being outside with the product or yeah i'm um
Speaker #1
I really like the terroir. I really like the work in the agriculture in general. Since I'm young, I want to work on this kind of environment. But I decided to really work on the wine business after work with my stepfather, my mother, during summer, winter, during all my holidays, when I was at school. And I said, okay. Maybe I can start something with my parents. And I started my first internship in 2011 in Champagne. And I said, OK, let's go. Let's do this experience for now. And after this job, if I can do that.
Speaker #0
And so you started in Champagne with this first internship? And then you did other experiences in the world?
Speaker #1
I did five years at school in Bordeaux. And in each year, I had experience to do in different regions. So I did Champagne, I did Burgundy, Côte d'Uron, Roussillon, Bordeaux. And after I traveled in Australia and Oregon. So yeah, I had a few experiences before to come back to the domain with different types of domain. different size um so yeah it's it was a great opportunity because my parents have a lot of contacts everywhere in the wine business and i say okay um i'm i'm ready for this kind of training you know traveling a lot um and work with uh other people other producer um different region different concept different philosophy And now I build my own concept with Montus and all the ideas and the concepts I learn everywhere.
Speaker #0
So what did you learn elsewhere and that you want to apply in Montus and Muscassin?
Speaker #1
It depends on which region. When I work in Champagne, I work a lot with, I work for Anselm Sélos. Okay. So one of the best charismatic. producer in Champagne, very special, brilliant guy in viticulture and winemaking and aging. So I learned a lot in the aging. process uh and i really like long aging uh for all the red and the whites we make now i continue this uh this experience with long aging with gigal i work for gigal in ronvalet they do also three four five years of aging in oak uh with uh with the syrah um so i really i really learned about the singularity and the expression of terroir and uh how to age on the best way to wine to have something very drinkable younger and also to have the biggest complexity of the terroir and the grapes. In Bordeaux, I learned a lot in winemaking, how to make a wine softer on the tannins, how to extract the best quality of the wine, how to manage the vineyard to don't have a huge stress on the vineyard, to have a... The perfect quality of tannins with tannins is really, really important because it's a powerful grape. I learned a lot also for the marketing and commercial part also in Bordeaux because it's a very specific way to sell wine with Laplace, with the negotiations, etc. And when I worked also in Oregon and in Australia, I worked in the New World. So the climate change, a lot in France, in Europe. And in this new world, wine, you have already this kind of difficult climate to grow vines. So I learned a lot on the viticulture also.
Speaker #0
So you learned all of this. You come back to the family estate. You must have been like 24. So you come back and immediately you're like, I want to become the manager of the estate. How does this happen?
Speaker #1
You know, when you, Alain is born in Chateau Bouscassé, it was a family property, but the parents of Alain didn't have a brand. They don't have a huge notoriety with Chateau Bouscassé. Maybe just 10% of the production was in the bottle. So Alain start with nothing from the beginning. And you know, when you live in the countryside, you're supposed to be the employees of your parents. your parents until they are retired so alan has a as a education old school education and i pretty much are the same so you know when it's good you don't say if it's good or not you know he say if it's bad yes but not if it's good uh and he don't tell the the the vision he don't he don't talk too much so you have to think through it analyze it yeah yeah so I come back to the domain. I was in the vineyard, in the cellar. I worked pretty much everywhere. And one day I had the feeling I was supposed to be in charge one day. So I started to work like I was in charge about the viticulture and the onology. So I started to move some details in the winemaking, in the vineyard. And I would like one day to build my own team. My parents built a team in the vineyard, in the cellar. Great winemaker, but they spent maybe 30 years in our domain. And I would like to have my new generation winemaker also. So, yeah, I developed the team. And also I developed the character of the wine I would like to make. Maybe more contemporary. I want to preserve the style, the identity, the touch of the Tannat on this terroir. The singularity of the wine also, of course. But I want to bring something more maybe fresh, more elegant, more easy to drink with complexity. You know, it's a very fashion to make something easy. Just easy. After two years, after a glass of wine, you forget the wine. And after two years, you... You can't continue to drink the wine. I want to make something for a long time. Wine, for me, it's time. It's time in the vineyard. It's time in the cellar. It's time in the bottle. So you have to be very patient. It's what I want to continue to build with Montus. It's customer and market very passion for Android, and I appreciate the wine.
Speaker #0
It's very interesting what you said about Um, I felt that I wanted to be in charge someday, so I started behaving like I was in charge. Yeah,
Speaker #1
sometimes if you wait, it never happens. So you have to start something. When you are 24, you don't really feel what is the good way or what is the wrong way. And you don't feel what is bad or good. And you have your parents in the back. So if you do something wrong, you always have something on the back to say.
Speaker #0
They will tell you. Yeah,
Speaker #1
exactly. Now they start to be old. They continue to work with me. but I feel I'm in charge at 80%, maybe 90%
Speaker #0
now. Plus, you must feel that they trust way, way more than a few years ago. Yeah,
Speaker #1
of course. I'm 32 now. So, yeah, I think after 30 years old, you start to have everything organized in your head and you start to really feel and to really know where you want to go.
Speaker #0
Yeah, 100%. Can you describe a bit, so Montus and Bouscassé, so it's from the southwest. We know a little bit about the southwest because we visited a few years ago, we visited Plemont. So in the monastery and then we went into Saint-Mont, which is close to you. And I think you have some appellations, Madiron, it's in common with them. They have also some Madiron. So we know a little bit about the southwest, but really not that much. So can you like explain a bit more what it looks like what your wines look like uh what are the like um how the countryside is uh yeah the southwest is a beautiful region for i love it for um armagnac but also armagnac gastronomy yeah
Speaker #1
foie gras canard duck yeah truffle caviar that's black pig this is a huge region for gastronomy alain ducasse said if the French gastronomy lost Southwest, we lost 70% of the gastronomic product. So Southwest is a huge place for food, great food, great product, for a good price. It's always a very good value in Southwest. The wine, the food, and everything. What is really special, it's a grape variety we have. for the white wine. So we have Petit Courbu, Petit Manser, Gros Manser. This is our local grapes, very specific grapes from the Piedmont of the Pyrenees. We have also Tanate, Cabernet Franc, and Cabernet Sauvignon. So this is our three grapes for the red. We have a very specific terroir also because you know, if you look at the The most famous region in the world of wine. They are all close or made by the creation of Montaigne. So close to the Pyrenees, you have the Pays Basque, you have also Gironson, close to Pau, and you have Madiran and all the Languedoc-Roussillon. All those appellations were created with the elevation of the Pyrenees. So all the sediments, the clay, the stone. in our appellation, come from the Pyrenees. So we have a huge diversity of terroir because we are very close to the mountain. So two different characteristics. Bouscassé, it's limestone and clay. And Montus, it's clay and river stone. So two different characteristics. If you want to compare very shortly, you can say right bank, left bank. Right bank with the limestone in Saint-Emilion, same as Bouscassé. and the gravel and the clay from the medoc, the same as Montus. So very similar expression of our wine in two different types of soil. And our wines are amazing for aging. Of course, now, because of the climate, the climate changes a lot, it changes really fast. It's easier and easier for our generation now to make good vintage almost every year. because we have a great weather. We can pick on a ripe condition all the time, almost all the time. So we don't have any more problem on the quality of the tannins, on the ripeness of the tannins, the freshness, the natural acidity, because high in elevation, close to the mountains, so very fresh climate. So we have a high acidity wine, and this is amazing for maturation, aging. in the bottle and in the time.
Speaker #0
Maybe we can try together, if you want?
Speaker #1
Yes, we can try red or you want...
Speaker #0
Yeah, let's just share a glass of this one. Let's make it easy for us. Thanks. So this is Latire, this is Montus, okay.
Speaker #1
Yeah, this is Latire, it's a single vineyard from Montus. It's 2.5 hectares, highest elevation vineyard, 260 meters of altitude. So pretty high and you have a very specific expression of Tanat. It's 100% Tanat, it's vintage 2019. And this one is aged for three years, one year in barrack and two years in a big volume, big wood, big cask.
Speaker #0
And it's actually very good. Yes. I love that it's super ripe as well. Because sometimes with tannate, you have a lot of like, you know, how do you say, like herbal notes, you know. like poivron, that type of things.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
It's not the case at all. There is tannate inside of this?
Speaker #1
100%.
Speaker #0
Oh, wow.
Speaker #1
Yeah, this is 100% tannate.
Speaker #0
Oh, that's cool.
Speaker #1
Yeah, all our single vineyards are made with 100% tannate. To have one grapes, one terroir, it's very unique, very...
Speaker #0
Ah, so you don't blend the...
Speaker #1
With this one, no.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
With Montus, we have Cab Franc and Cabernet Sauvignon. But with Lathier, it's a single vineyard. 100% than that.
Speaker #0
No, that's cool. And so how is the market for you? Because so you said, especially in Asia. So like you said that Southwest is always good value. And this is something that always strikes me when I see wines from the Southwest. But basically everything you said from the Southwest, like every food from the Southwest is basically not super expensive for what it is. Like the value that you can have for your money is insane. So how do you manage this? How do you also go on the Asian markets? Because here in Hong Kong, like you have some people that are very passionate and precise on what they want, but most of the time they also want to have the like most expensive, most exclusive or, you know.
Speaker #1
I think Southwest is pretty exclusive because we don't produce a massive production of wine. And also sommelier has a great knowledge about wine. And Montus started to be famous in the 80s, 90s. So you find a lot of back vintages on the market in Hong Kong, in Taiwan, in Vietnam, in Japan, in Korea. So I think the notoriety starts 30 years ago in the market. So the first generation of sommelier at this time. I really enjoy Montus because it was, you know, a challenger for the Grand Cru from Bordeaux. I don't want to be the same now, but I think it's also in the mind of a lot of sommeliers now. Montus, it's always and today also a good challenger for a very good value price. So we continue to develop restaurants with good sommeliers. And... Yeah, I think it's it's much your market. You know, people know the wine. They know about wine. They are open minded. So I'm I have a good feeling with the market now. We just restarted in Hong Kong now since one year.
Speaker #0
So you have a distributor here in Port-au-Prince.
Speaker #1
Yeah, but it's first time for me here now. Today. You like it so far?
Speaker #0
I'm mature just all right now?
Speaker #1
Just all right. yesterday night i spent a day in the on the fair so i don't know how look hong kong so but i will come back for sure uh at the end of the year uh to uh to visit to really understand the atmosphere of the city because if you want to to to sell your wine you have to understand where you are and with what kind of wine you you you need to uh to sell uh first so yeah it's uh i think when you make wine you have to have a the feeling with your grapes and the terroir you When you sell wine, you have to have the feeling also with your partner, your distributor, sommelier, the region, the food, etc.
Speaker #0
You have to also make them passionate about your product. Yeah, of course. And this, you cannot do it if you're not really here or if there is not someone actually here to say, this is Montus, let's drink it together. I will explain to you. I will show you the pictures of our place. Picture,
Speaker #1
take a glass, drink, good food, good pairing. This is...
Speaker #0
the the rules i think so uh so montus buscasse two different terroirs two different domains two different uh domains yes and you uh and so you how big is it uh so montus now it's um
Speaker #1
42 hectares okay uh with uh with five hectares not in production so um so you have 37 hectares in in production now okay And Bouscassé, it's 48 hectares. So it's a pretty nice size for work because we have a large diversity of terroir. We have a young vineyard, old vines, and we can make a lot of single vineyards in Bouscassé and Montus. So we have around 15 different cuvées, white and red, and we develop more and more and more the whites. I think the new generation in Asia, I don't know for now, but she will discover the whites in a few years, I think, because it's something very new for Asian people, I think, white wine, except Chardonnay and Sauvignon Blanc. But our grapes, it's a new profile. It's a new style, new expression, very floral, very fruity, very fresh, very elegant. home. I expand the production of the white in France. So for this kind of market also.
Speaker #0
But even, I guess, even for Europe or the US, people drink less and less red wines. It's not like for dinner. I don't know how you feel about it, but from what I see, it's...
Speaker #1
Yes, the consumer likes white more and more. But in this city, for example, people are... Southwest, for example, we are well known for red, not for whites. So we need to work on that. I believe in the whites. And I believe in the sommelier to work with. So, yeah.
Speaker #0
So, yeah, so you are approximately the size of 100 hectares if we... Yeah,
Speaker #1
divided by two domains. Yeah,
Speaker #0
divided by two domains. So, as you said, it's a pretty nice size because it's still... accessible in terms of management great playground you can still do a lot of things you do so you said you do 50 different wines 15 15 okay five zero uh one five and not five five zero okay 15 yes i was like wow these guys are really making yeah we do a lot of single vineyard uh not a not a huge quantity but uh
Speaker #1
2000 bottle 5000 bottle uh so it's pretty much half hectare to 1.5 hectares So that's... I think a good size to make something good and precise.
Speaker #0
And in the introduction, you talked about climate change. One of the things that people told me about TANAT is that it's kind of a great variety for the future. It was difficult to have it ripe at the beginning, like 10 years ago, potentially. Do you see the difference over the last 10 years?
Speaker #1
Yes, of course. But I think, you know, everything starts in the vineyard you need a viticulture very special my parents start with a very specific philosophy they replant the vineyard with a really high density so like in in bordeaux and burgundy maybe a little bit less plant per hectare but high density vineyard and they work on the on the yield how many close to upper plants we need with tana to have a It's a good ripeness, a good concentration, a good expression. So we work a lot on the viticulture for all this ripeness. After we picked everything by hand, that's really important because tannate is very fragile on the skin. So you need to pick by hand. You need to have a selection sorting table, very precise, to have the best berries. So we call it caviar. to do very... soft extraction, soft maceration. So yes, we work on the maturity and also on the quality of the grapes in the cellar and after the maceration. And the climate changed a lot. It's why the process in the vineyard has to be adapted every year, every vintage. Each week, you have to have the right interpretation of the climate. for the vintage. For example, now the vintage 2026 starts with maybe two or three weeks earlier. So that's crazy. We will pick maybe the middle of August. the first red so uh i want to make uh i don't want to make a concentrate red wine i want to make balance and fresh wine so we need to manage the vines the vineyard the soil and the way to uh to uh to pick the grapes to to make the most elegant wine you know 2019 35 degrees so my parents made wine with 15 degrees alcohol I don't want to go up 14. So 13, 13.5, that's a perfect balance in alcohol for our wine.
Speaker #0
Yeah, because this is kind of the reputation of the wines from Madiron and Southwest in general, is that it's powerful, strong, a lot of alcohol.
Speaker #1
Too much. But you have to understand, it's not the quantity of tannins who make the quality of the wine. So it's why we work a lot on the pH. So the acidity and the quality of the tannins. And this is the most important part of our work. And after extraction, I'm not a big fan of massive extraction, like pigage, remontage, twice a day. I prefer infusion, cold maceration, short fermentation, but long maceration. And we merge the cap and we do a very, very soft infusion. And we don't extract too much. To have the wine really, really balanced, I think. And with a young expression, pretty, you know, gentle. That's really important.
Speaker #0
I see behind you a picture. Actually, two pictures. So I guess this is the properties that you guys have. One of the things that is a bit sad about Southwest is that it's difficult to go there. for most people like it's not super well connected to no airports train station I guess it's coming now you have a TGV that will be yes you have a TGV something like that yeah closer you have a Mont-Narcin okay yeah but yes
Speaker #1
it's it's one hour and a half of drive with your car from Bordeaux from oh it's okay actually so it's not so far and when you are in southwest in Montus You are very close to the mountain. You are very close to the coast. It's one hour and a half of drive also. So it's an amazing place to visit, to walk, to enjoy new gastronomy. So I think it's a brand new, very fashion destination, Southwest, if you find a way to come.
Speaker #0
We will find a way to come one day. Do you welcome some guests? Are you open to visit?
Speaker #1
Yeah, we received around 5,000 last year, private customers at the domain.
Speaker #0
So 20 per day, almost.
Speaker #1
We have a chef who cooks all the vegetables we produce. We have all black pig aging. We have chicken, we have cows. Black pig aging. Yeah.
Speaker #0
So you have black pigs? Yeah,
Speaker #1
we have black pig.
Speaker #0
Oh, nice.
Speaker #1
Yeah. We cook what we produce, like 80%. So the chef cooks for all the employees every day. So we have a table, a very specific table. It's open every day for all our customers. So private customer, distributor, importer. journalists and and also the employees so it's open every day wow okay so we receive a lot of people we sell maybe 15 to 20 percent of our wine at the domain yeah it's huge yeah so that's i think it's it's uh it's uh our characteristic is to sell a lot of wine to the uh to the private customer yeah it's cool because it's a wine that you sell directly to people so yeah the right transmission and the good words.
Speaker #0
the best explanation to the wine you know this is something I kind of miss in Hong Kong when we were discussing before the start of the podcast I was telling you that I enjoy living here very much but the only thing I miss is this connection to agriculture and to land because so here you've not seen it that much but it's basically an island and so like there is almost no agriculture in Hong Kong so everything is imported And you can find good products imported. Like, for example, I have beef from Australia that are grass-fed, you know. Yesterday, we ate snails at the restaurant. That was really nice. But, you know, you don't have this connection to the terroir, to something that's been produced like 200 meters from where you're eating.
Speaker #1
That's why it's really important for us to share this opportunity to our guests and to arrive also to do the best pairing with wine. Because we like, my parents are passionate about wine, about gastronomy. It's why we developed this table. Our chef starts for... worked for a two and three stars restaurant before so it's a high level of gastronomy sample for a good price but you uh you discover the southwest with wine and food so it's a it's
Speaker #0
pretty unique experience i think um do you have other projects for brumont apart from montresen busquets like are you thinking sometime of uh expanding, going in other places. You talked about Joronçon in the introduction. Is it something you have in mind?
Speaker #1
I was with a geologue last week and we talked about terroir appellation and the Pyrenees. And he told me we find a lot of places like Madeira with the same diversity of soil in the bottom of the Pyrenees. Not L'Enseign, not Hirurigi, but other places with no vineyards for now. And he told me it will be a great place in 15, 20 years maybe to produce wine because, yeah, climate change, of course. But terroirs are pretty similar to our terroir. And we are always thinking about the future of the winemaking and the wine production. We are not going to plant vineyards. up to the north in France, we are going closer to the mountain. So maybe in the future, we can have maybe a small project closer to the Pyrenees in a new place. This could be an idea. And also, I really want to develop the production of the whites. And I want also to expand the notoriety of Montus and Bouscassé. increase the quality always so that's my my parents gave me uh in charge to increase quality so i want i want to try the best and um and yes uh work on the on the notoriety distribution yeah
Speaker #0
it's a it's a very hard project what you mentioned just before because if you have to start planting vines wait 15 20 years to have the good climate like it's a it's a bet actually on the future.
Speaker #1
Yes, but you know, when you buy a vineyard in Burgundy, it's 1 million euros per hectare. In our smaller region, it could be 5,000 euros. So it's this kind of project you can wait and you can invest.
Speaker #0
It's not the same size of it.
Speaker #1
And you can expect a great quality because we have the grapes and we have the terroir.
Speaker #0
and now the people start to really to really know that uh so yeah we'll see yeah 100 it's the type of place uh we talked about value for money a little bit but for me it's the type of place if you want to do something discover something it's the the the place where you can actually do it yeah so it's um yeah for sure um so you said that uh your parents are actually still working at the Vignote. What do they do? And, and, How do you continue working with them?
Speaker #1
So Alain is working, but he's taking a lot of pleasure also. He doesn't want to travel anymore, so he takes a lot of time. Like an ambassador, you know, he takes a lot of time with our customers who come to visit us at the domain. And my mother, she's in charge about all the marketing and the sales team.
Speaker #0
And she's still working?
Speaker #1
Yeah, she's working every day. So I'm working a lot with my mother and of course with Alain because he created the domain. So we talk a lot. We test always with Alain together for the testing, for all the blends. So this is really important for my team and for the new team because we are still very young to have Alain with a lot of knowledge. And another vision also of the wine. now he's pretty much outside of the business uh but he did uh foreign more than 45 vintages so it's really important to have the vision to have the relation with allen um every day yeah
Speaker #0
100 um we talked a bit about china about hong kong as well uh but are there other places where the market maybe is a bit more mature for i guess the us for you is no no no not the us the quebec
Speaker #1
uh canada it's a pretty pretty big market for us uh it's a historical market okay because uh alan started to to sell wine in in quebec uh 35 years ago uh because he don't speak english just speaks french so so it was his uh his own target and he really get it and uh it's one of our biggest markets we have in the world um and of course in in europe uh and uh in sweden it's also a pretty huge market for us um and uh but we develop i want to develop a lot of new market uh not huge market but small market with uh the right distribution with the best qv we have at the right place the on the the michelin stars restaurant where you have a good wine list with good sommelier. So we expand from some small new market for us. We are present in 46 markets in the world, but we have a target of 15 to 20 markets in the future to develop Montus.
Speaker #0
This is something that always amazes me when I talk to people making wines, is that you have a very local product. like uh in which you basically have a land, you have a lot of work to put in it. It's produced locally. But then it's sent worldwide and can be drunk for like 10 dozens of years. And it always makes me crazy. The fact that we have you in Hong Kong right now, it's amazing because a few days ago, you must have been in the vineyard.
Speaker #1
I was in the vineyard yesterday and I will be on the vineyard on Monday. So yes, it's... It's a crazy job. You produce, you transform, you sell, you talk about, you create experience, you tell a story. So yes, it's an amazing job. Very complete. I think you need more than one life to really manage all of them, all the parts. But yeah, it's why it's really, really important to build a strong team around you. to believe on the project and to follow you.
Speaker #0
Well, if you are recruiting or if you have some needs, we'll put some links in the description to your websites and everything. So it's definitely something if you guys are looking for a job in the wine industry that you're good and ready to move to the Southwest, I guess if you need people in the team.
Speaker #1
Harvest is coming.
Speaker #0
If you want to do the harvest, yeah, true, it's a very good idea. Nice. Are there... Topics that we didn't mention, but that are very important for you.
Speaker #1
I don't know. We talk about a lot of things.
Speaker #0
Do you have a crazy souvenir of like a tasting or something with Montus? Yes,
Speaker #1
with Montus. With Montus. My first tasting I have done in Montus when I come back to the domain was to understand the terroir and the expression of Montus. So we did a vertical with Alain. because for me to respect Montus and the expression, I'm supposed to really understand Montus terroir. So we start with the first vintage of Montus in 1982 to the 2017. And it was a really nice experience to discover the evolution, the impact of the winemaking, the aging of the vines. how the expression changed after 15, 20, 30 years. So yeah, that was a great experience for me. And I continue to do that every two or three years with all our single vineyard to really feel if we are on the right direction.
Speaker #0
All right. Thank you very much. Thank you very much for this. It was a very cool interview. I learned a lot of things about the Southwest and the region. Can't wait to come to see you next time we're in France. You're welcome. We'll be more than happy to come.
Speaker #1
You're welcome.
Speaker #0
I have three last questions that are always the same. The first one is, do you have a book recommendation for me?
Speaker #1
Yes. Marcel Pagnol, La Gloire de mon Père.
Speaker #0
Ah, nice. Nice. About the countryside. yes i love uh i love this book um do you have a recent wine that you tasted and and that was emotional for you that an emotion that you had um i'm i think i'm young to to uh to have drink
Speaker #1
my last best wine i think but the last one i really um like uh it was a blind testing with Chateau Fijac 1985. Nice. Yeah. One of the best cru from Saint-Emilion. 100%.
Speaker #0
Recently promoted I think. I think you went from Class B to Class A two years ago. Two years ago, yeah. To the last Saint-Emilion classification. All right. And finally, who is the next person I should interview?
Speaker #1
The next person was here uh, like 15 minutes ago. It's a very good friend of me. He's making wine, of course. Hugues Laborde. Ah, yes, Hugues. You know him?
Speaker #0
No, but we have crossed some importers and distributors that work with him. So I drank his wine Newcomer there. Yes, exactly. I drank it two days ago at a restaurant.
Speaker #1
So you have to do the interview with him.
Speaker #0
100%. Can't hand me. Thank you very much, Antoine, for this. If you guys like this interview, don't forget to share it and to subscribe. and if you want to have amazing moments go to the southwest go discover the black pigs and the wines and the petits courbus for the whites yeah come to the southwest see you soon bye bye bye thank you merci avec plaisir c'était très cool c'était chaud

Chapters

Intro – Antoine of Château Montus & Bouscassé at Vinexpo Hong Kong

0sec

Growing up in Madiran: second generation of the Brumont estates

36sec

Training in Champagne, Burgundy, Guigal, Bordeaux, Australia & Oregon

3min

Taking charge at 24: succession, new team, new style of Tannat

6min

Madiran terroir explained: Pyrenees soils, grapes & Southwest gastronomy

10min

Tasting La Tyre 2019: 100% Tannat single vineyard at 260 m

14min

Selling Madiran in Asia: Hong Kong, sommeliers and value for money

16min

Inside the estates: 90 hectares, 15 cuvées and the rise of the whites

20min

Climate change & Tannat: earlier harvests, fresher, lower-alcohol wines

22min

Wine tourism in Southwest France: 5,000 visitors, farm-to-table, black pig

26min

Future projects near the Pyrenees & working with Alain Brumont today

30min

Export markets, a 1982–2017 vertical tasting and final recommendations

35min