Description

Welcome to Episode 162! In this episode of the Winging It Travel Podcast, host James Hammond takes listeners on an enlightening journey into the world of travel points and rewards with special guest Spencer Howard, the innovative founder of Straight to the Points. If you’ve ever wondered how to elevate your travel experiences while maximizing your budget, this episode is a must-listen. Spencer shares his unique story, transitioning from a career in politics to becoming a travel expert dedicated to helping fellow adventurers navigate the often complex landscape of travel rewards.

Dive deep into the art of travel planning as Spencer reveals the ins and outs of various credit card strategies that can unlock incredible travel experiences. With an emphasis on flexibility, he discusses how to adapt your travel plans to seize great deals and make the most of your points. This episode is packed with travel tips that will inspire you to think creatively about your next adventure, whether you’re a seasoned backpacker or just starting your journey into the world of travel.

Throughout the discussion, Spencer recounts personal travel anecdotes that shaped his passion for exploring new cultures and destinations. His stories are not just entertaining; they serve as a source of travel inspiration, encouraging listeners to embrace the thrill of spontaneous travel. From hitchhiking adventures to budget travel tips, Spencer’s insights will resonate with anyone who has a touch of wanderlust in their heart.

Discover the value of using points for premium cabin flights, and learn how Spencer’s educational newsletter can help you effectively utilize your points for unforgettable travel experiences. The conversation culminates in a fun segment of quickfire questions, where Spencer shares his favourite countries, cuisines, and essential travel recommendations that every traveller should know.

Thanks to Spencer for coming to the podcast and sharing about the points and rewards world. If you are looking to get started, check out Spencer's website for Straight to the Points below, as well as his Instagram account, which has a huge following.

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Transcription

• Speaker #0

  I was poking around on his site notes like points, you use points to book this like business class flight. Okay, I could get into that. I'm 63. I'm a tall guy, I would like space. Business class sounds like a great way to go travel around the world. I became obsessed, roughly speaking. I mean, I spent about four hours a night for like six months reading every credit card rule, every airline, like routing rule. I mean, I wanted to like, I wanted to figure out everything about everything. and then see if I could like break the rules. Yeah, that was my kind of very fast introduction. It was just as soon as I found it, I just went full speed. And it's been fun ever since. I generally say there are three approaches to credit cards. The maximalist approach, which is get a credit card, hit the signup bonus, like hit the minimum spend to earn the big bonus. And then after a year, you just close the card. That's oversimplifying. There are cards you keep. Then there would be what I would say, the second tier is like kind of a...

• Speaker #1

  Welcome to the Winging It Travel podcast with me, James Hammond. Every Monday, I'll be joined by guests to talk about their travel stories, travel tips, backpacking advice, and so much more. Are you a backpacker, gap year student, or simply someone who loves to travel? Then this is the podcast for you, designed to inspire you to travel. There'll be stories to tell, tips to share, and experiences to inspire. Welcome to the show. Hello and welcome to this week's episode where I'm joined by Spencer Howard, the founder of Straight to the Points. Spencer's mission is to help elevate your travel experience through their premium cabin flight alerts newsletter and by assisting you with your travel needs and bookings. I know much of my audience is US-based, so I'm super keen for Spencer to help you out. I'm also keen to hear if Spencer can help other people in countries like UK, Canada and Australia, etc. And alongside this, I want to know the traveller in Spencer too. So Spencer, welcome to the show. How are you doing?

• Speaker #0

  Thanks so much for having me, James. Great to be here.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, thanks for coming on. Really appreciate it. Where are you based right now?

• Speaker #0

  Well, I live in Washington, D.C., but I'm currently visiting family in Kentucky.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, so my first question is going to be growing up. Is that where you're from? Kentucky originally?

• Speaker #0

  I am. I'm from Lexington. I guess technically I was born in Hartford, Connecticut, but Kentucky is where I'm from. It's where my mom's from.

• Speaker #1

  Can you tell maybe my European listeners, apart from the chicken, what Kentucky is known for?

• Speaker #0

  I would say... Bourbon, college basketball, and horse racing. It's a big thing.

• Speaker #1

  Are they your things you're into or not really into that?

• Speaker #0

  Bourbon, absolutely. All things whiskey, really. Yeah, and I mean, growing up, I think you're, if you grew up in Lexington, Kentucky, you are a University of Kentucky basketball fan. So that's just, it's a big thing. I know college sports is not always a big thing around the world, but in the US.

• Speaker #1

  It's huge, isn't it?

• Speaker #0

  It's kind of a religion. I mean, the memories I have as a child are, you know, before cell phones. That's aging myself here. But you could, if there was a basketball game that day and you weren't watching it for some reason, you were just downtown near the arena, you could see people come out of it and know if we'd won or lost just immediately. Just see somebody's face. You just know. Like, that's how wrapped up people would get. So.

• Speaker #1

  yeah it's kind of fun though okay i think just to finish on college sports i think the crazy thing i saw was the lakers were looking for a coach uh you must know about this and they went for the guy who's won two in a row or something in college level and he turned him down but then i saw his salary i'm like oh yeah he doesn't need to move because he gets paid millions anyway at

• Speaker #0

  college level yeah he's doing all right from a european that's that's baffling i think i think it's a bit the passion is a bit like football like premier league or championship in the uk um having been to a match there like it's there's a similar kind of passion because it's still somewhat localized rather than just like we pick a player from from somewhere else and they come in it's i don't know it's just it's very it's all about the fans i think and that's it's

• Speaker #1

  a similar aspect to it uh yeah even premier league is still localized they will not i know some clubs are huge and they get a worldwide audience but yeah my team's in the premier league it's which town and it's still localized yeah big year for you first

• Speaker #0

  first year in a while.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, over 20 years. Yeah, huge. And I remember when we were there last time, so that shows my age.

• Speaker #0

  It hurt me a little as a Leeds fan since I was really hoping that we would make it back up again, but you know. That's okay.

• Speaker #1

  You were super unlucky because 90 points normally gets you up, and you ran someone like us.

• Speaker #0

  I think it was the same number of points we had in the championship when we got promoted the last time. And I was like, oh, cool.

• Speaker #1

  But you should do well this season. You should be fine. Yeah. I think you'll go up. Yeah. Yeah. For Kentucky, if you're going to go travel, what are the options?

• Speaker #0

  get in the car. Yeah, I mean, we have an airport, but it's small. So a lot of my travel growing up was road trips. Also, I played baseball into university. So much of my summer off of school was playing in baseball tournaments. I got very accustomed to sleeping on a bus. I think the longest trip we took was from Lexington to Wichita, Kansas, which is like, I think it was a 14 hour bus ride. I just remember waking up, looking out the window, and I couldn't see anything but a field. There were no signs, no buildings. And I remember thinking, where the hell am I? And just went back to sleep. But yeah, a lot of trips driving around the southeast of the US to the east coast, and then bus trips for tournaments and stuff like that. Yeah, that's what I did growing up.

• Speaker #1

  If you spoke to someone in the UK and you think, US road trip,

• Speaker #0

  what do you think of it's probably that just roads going on forever not much in between apart from the big cities right so that's kind of what i would think america was when i was younger i reckon yeah and i think it depends where you are like living in dc now you quickly get if you go up the east coast you quickly get to baltimore um you're gonna get you can get to philly you go up to new york uh you get to boston not too far from i mean it's just it's more compact on the east coast you get out west and everything feels so much bigger and spread out you Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  That's awesome. And for any flights, where can you go from Kentucky if you're based there? Is it International Airport or was it not two destinations?

• Speaker #0

  Lexington. I can get to DC actually. There's one nonstop flight out of Lexington. Love that. Of course it leaves at six in the morning, so you've really got to want it. But yeah, I think you get to Chicago and I don't know, maybe New York still. A lot of times you just have to connect. So if you can fly to it, you can fly Delta to Atlanta and connect somewhere else. You can fly Delta to Detroit and connect somewhere else, stuff like that. But, you know, you can get a decent number of places. It's just it's not like living in New York where you can get anywhere in the world.

• Speaker #1

  I just assumed every state had an international airport.

• Speaker #0

  I think. Well, so the Cincinnati airport, it's known as Cincinnati. It's actually in Covington, Kentucky. Right. They have a I think there's a British Airways flight to London, Air France flight to Paris. It used to be bigger. It's not as big anymore. And Louisville's airport, we say Louisville, not Louisville. But just put marbles in your mouth and try to say it and then you'll say it right. But I don't know if they have international flights at this point, but yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. And was there any trip when you're younger that maybe fueled a bit of interest in travel going into adulthood?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I think I'm a little different than a lot of people. So my dad traveled for work growing up. just flying to different places for work. And my interest in travel stemmed from like really liking airplanes. I just thought they were really fascinating. And my mom said I always loved the airport. So we'd go pick my dad up from trips. Again, aging myself back in the day when you could go to the gate and like greet people as they got off the plane in the early 90s. But that was, I don't know, I think I was obsessed with planes. Once I was in the working world, I traveled a bit for work and that just kind of like expanded it more so. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And was there like a first international flight or international trip where you thought, oh, do you know what? This is completely different to what I'm used to or maybe a bit of culture shock.

• Speaker #0

  I wouldn't say culture shock. I'm trying to think. So I went to the Cayman Islands with my parents once and I was just a brat about it. I was 14 and I missed baseball, a baseball game. And I was really upset about it, which is like. Talk about ungrateful. I did not travel a lot internationally until I guess 2016. That's really where it started. I mean, I guess I graduated from university in 2009, so it was a while. I just worked a lot. So I was working a lot, working in politics. And so I didn't have a lot of time to explore. It was only towards the end of my time in politics where I had a job at the US Travel Association in a political capacity, but they actually wanted us to get out there and travel. And that was the first time I'd been around that. And so I just started booking anything to anywhere. And I was like, I'm just going to go. I think within the span of like a few weeks, I booked a flight to Milan just because it was a cheap flight. I booked flights to Amsterdam with a side trip to Vienna. And then I booked like a three day trip to Taiwan. Took me 24 hours to get there and 24 hours back. Somehow I convinced a good friend to go with me. Yeah, it was it was kind of being like being shot out of a cannon once I was able to travel.

• Speaker #1

  I have an interest in planes as well, weirdly enough. Right. So I was in air cadets when I was younger. So, you know, I was flying little two seater planes from the age of 13 or something. So I had a fascination. I was going to join the Air Force and didn't.

• Speaker #0

  really went into music but i had an interest in planes but not really see in many places there's an interesting concept maybe he was more interested in the technicality of flying rather than actually i mean fair fine too somewhere they're pretty amazing yeah i mean well i mean one thing that really sticks out for me is i mean this is probably 2013-14 i was working uh just in a position where i did travel some and i just remember connecting in detroit and I was talking to my dad. It was just kind of fun for me because it was just like, you know, talking to somebody who had traveled millions of miles around the world doing the same thing he had been doing. And I just remember I was like one of those moving walkways and I go by this Korean Air flight and I go by this Virgin Atlantic flight. I remember just thinking as I'm like kind of rolling by just being like, I wonder what like wonder what people are going to do. Like and it just I just really was fascinated by like how you could just get on a plane and then you know, eight hours later, be or 10 hours later, become somewhere completely different. And I just I think it was around that time, I just kept thinking about that more and more. And it was just like a job later that I had the opportunity to travel. And now I still see planes the same way. I still get really excited to be at the airport. And yeah, I think there's just so much possibility.

• Speaker #1

  So the options, right? So at that point, even though

• Speaker #0

  you maybe not flying too much around was there countries in your mind that you just had in the back like do you know what if i do get a chance to go um was there some two or three countries first on your on your list i feel like there should have been but it was very much just and and this still like holds true for me today where it's just like let the deal find you like okay i want to see so many things like if i see one first and one next or one much later like it doesn't really matter to me like i'm just i want to go see things yeah um And so if, you know, if I say, I tell this to people, it's like, yeah, you want to go to Paris, but like, did you also want to go to Japan? There's a deal with Japan. Like, oh yeah, I also want to go to Japan. Great. Go to Japan this time and go to Paris next time. The order doesn't generally matter. I mean, I'm, there are certainly things where it's like, you wanted to go to the Paris Olympics. Okay. That's, that was this year. You had to do it this time.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  But broadly speaking, if it's just like, I want to go. experience the culture and try the food and what it like, it doesn't matter. Just, just go.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, just go.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So, so to me, it was just, I, I, I've never really, I mean, yes, I've booked trips intentionally, but it's generally when I'm traveling with my wife versus if I'm booking a trip with a friend, it's more like me sending my friend Tim a message and going, Hey, have you ever been to Lithuania? And it's just like, and he's usually texting me back going, no. And I'm like, want to go. which was sometimes gets followed by, I'm not going to Lithuania. And then like four hours later, he's like, so I booked the flight. It's, you know, that's just, I think there's just been a lot of that for the last eight years. Just kind of like, this looks like it could be interesting.

• Speaker #1

  I think that sums up this podcast. Yeah. I mean, totally winging it. Right. So yeah,

• Speaker #0

  absolutely winging it.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Yeah. Have you heard of the surprise travel trend this year where

• Speaker #0

  I have seen that?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, people get on Skyscanner, for example, or Google Flights, put where they're from, and then just put everywhere and they just go to the cheapest place. I haven't done that yet, but I'd love to just see what comes up and commit to it. That'd be pretty cool, right?

• Speaker #0

  I think there's something fun about spontaneous. So I think the latest I've booked a flight is six hours before departure. And I had just come home from a two-week trip to Southeast Asia. And I was... already just like antsy to go somewhere my wife was busy with work and she was like just go get out of my hair and a friend of mine was in amsterdam so i was like i'm going to amsterdam so i had another friend with me love that it's just yeah um yeah i don't know that's just that's just the way i've been doing it and you know do is i have a child now so it's harder but uh yeah but it's just when the opportunities there go yes kind of key to

• Speaker #1

  My last question really, which you can bear in mind for a minute, I sort of asked why people should travel, right? So you can think about that for the last question. Yeah. Yeah. Um, before we get straight into the points, there's a couple more questions career-wise, what were you up to?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Uh, so like I mentioned, I was working in politics and I did that. I started doing that while I was in university and did that for, I guess, including that time, probably about 10 years and started writing about points and travel part-time, uh, in 2016. And within about six months, made it my full time, full time life, freelance writing and eventually started my own, turned my hobby side of this into a business in January 2021. So, yeah.

• Speaker #1

  not bad here we are still going politics sounds i'm not gonna get into politics but it sounds quite intense tense career potentially yeah it is it's uh you like competition and i mean it's uh it's it's competitive uh it's

• Speaker #0

  so funny because like now every time i talk people like oh what you used to do and i was like well probably something you don't want to talk about yeah it's like i think it's interesting but i might be one of the only people who does so Yeah, it's, but it's a good, it was a good time. But I just, I don't know, I, I had the opportunity to do something new. And it just I was, I could feel myself becoming obsessed with travel. And I knew that it was just like, it was all I was thinking about. And so when I had the had enough writing lined up, I was like, you know what, I'm gonna do this. I got to choose one or the other.

• Speaker #1

  So yeah, okay. That's quite cool. You started late as well. I think the, the sort of motivation is there quite intensely, right? because if you travel early doors, there's no right or wrong way, but like you might be eager to catch up and go and see a lot of places, right?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I think, I mean, there's definitely a part of you that's like, man, what was I doing? I could have been doing this.

• Speaker #1

  Sure, yeah. But you know,

• Speaker #0

  I had great experiences along the way. I've met great people. I still have friends from my time in politics. Like I don't regret any of it. It's just, that was, I look at it as almost like chapters.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, of course, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Like I played, played baseball from the time I was five until, I don't know, very beginning of my 20s. And then like got hurt playing baseball, went straight into working in politics, did that for 10 years. Now I've been doing this for eight years. So it's just like, it's just these large chapters, but yeah, nonetheless, maybe they're each books. I don't know. But it's saving.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  But I think that's, I don't know. It's great. I've really enjoyed having the different experiences along the way.

• Speaker #1

  How did you get into points then? Where did that come into? Because obviously there's one thing saying you want to go and travel. But how did you get into points specifically? Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  That's a great question. So my, like I mentioned, my last job in politics was the U.S. Travel Association. And we would get press clips each day. Just kind of what's going on on the issues that we're working on. And one of them, there was a topic we were working on called Open Skies Agreements. I won't bore you with the details.

• Speaker #1

  Okay.

• Speaker #0

  broadly speaking, free trade agreements between countries to allow airlines to go back and forth between countries, just making it easier for them to do so. So there was a blogger who wrote an article commenting on it. And I remember my initial reaction was like, why the hell do I care about what some blogger has to say? I'm used to reading like the Wall Street Journal's aviation reporter. And I was like, why do I care about this blogger saying, and his name's Gary from Gary Leffert, View from the Wing. I now know Gary, he's a super nice guy. But when I first saw it, I was like, I don't know who you are. And I was poking around on his site and I was like, points, you use points to book this like business class flight. Okay. I could get into that. I'm 6'3". I'm a tall guy. I would like space. Yeah. Business class sounds like a great way to go travel around the world. And that was, I mean, I became obsessed, roughly speaking. I spent about four hours a night for like six months reading. every credit card rule every airline like routing rule i mean i wanted to like i wanted to figure out everything about everything uh and then see if i could like break the rules um of course yeah um but that was yeah that was my kind of very fast introduction it was just as soon as i found it i just went full speed um and it's been fun ever since interestingly i met some people at travel con this year which is another event i went to

• Speaker #1

  and a lot of them go to FinCon. I don't know if you go to FinCon or not. And I had a few people explain it to me as well and I kind of did get the concept. But some people are really organized with this sort of stuff. So we're going to go into straight to the point because I'm keen to maybe compare what they said to what you will say as well. So can you tell us a bit about straight to the point, what the aim is and describe in your own words how that can help people travel for cheaper?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So I like that you mentioned cheaper. So I always like... to say in points you have people who get into it for different reasons some it's just like travel but don't spend money uh i was slightly different i was traveling and enhanced the experience and so i think there's there's and and to me it's just like i don't care why you want to travel i'm just glad you're traveling like cool yeah i i don't play this game of like oh you should fly economy or you should fly i'm like i don't care my business fly economy whatever makes you happy just go um for me I like flying business in first class on long flights across the world. And it's tougher to do that with points than it is to fly economy. So. I became obsessed with trying to find all of this like award space that you could use your points on. Um, and that was the kind of driver for starting the straight to the points award alerts newsletter. When my friends were like, Oh, can you just share that? Like just whatever you find, just share it, just put an email, send it to me. So I started to just send out a newsletter back in like August of 2018. Uh, didn't know what I was doing, but I was like, I'll just share what I'm finding. Um, and it. just grew faster than I expected. But yeah, and I'm, it's evolved a little bit, but it's mostly the same concept still, which is just like show people how to use their points in an efficient manner to poke seats up in the front of the plane. Um, and I focus on like two plus seats so that like couples and families can travel together. And that's also where it's harder to find space. It's one seat. You can do it. It's not, it's not always easy, but it's not terribly hard when you start getting multiple seats. Um, that's where the challenge really lies.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it makes sense, doesn't it? Yeah. And can you explain the concept? So I'll tell you what this guy told me when I was speaking to him about it. He's like, he's got 30 credit cards or something, right? And they've all got labels on them for what they are designed for for him. So one's groceries, one's bills, one's rent, whatever. And the idea is to hit pointers on those credit cards to get the maximum amount of points. And once you maximize the deal or the offer, you close it and then look for another one. Is that generally the concept of trying to accumulate all these points? to travel or to do whatever you want?

• Speaker #0

  I would say that's an approach. I generally say there are three approaches to credit cards. The maximalist approach, which is what sounds like he was doing, which is get a credit card, hit the signup bonus, like get the minimum spend to earn the big bonus. And then after a year, you just close the card. That's oversimplifying. There are cards you keep. Then there would be what I would say the second tier is like kind of a hub and supplement where you create kind of a card hub of you know four to six cars they have bonus categories and benefits that help you earn points faster and just provide benefits like lounge access or trip delay protection whatever you have this hub of cars and then you supplement kind of here and there based on what you want to do or what you want to book and you get a new sign up bonus kind of occasionally and then there's the kind of just keep it simple stupid like get one to three cards never think about it again um and all approaches are valid it's just kind of you go from the fastest way to earn points to the slowest, but you also go from the most complicated effort to the least complicated. And it just depends where you are in your level of interest, your bandwidth, how much you feel like you can keep track of. Um, I like, I have had clients who are small business owners. They just spend a lot of money on credit cards. They're like, I don't have time to get a bunch of cards, but I spend $20 million a year on credit cards. I'm like, great. You don't need a ton of signup bonuses. Yeah. This is like, For you, it's just like making sure you're earning the right points. It's not about do you earn enough? It's just, are you earning the ones that are going to help you travel based on what you want? And that's a different conversation. So again, there's some kind of broad, I think, structural things, but it's personalized after that. You have to kind of make that choice for yourself and like which direction you want to go.

• Speaker #1

  So that's based on your own situation and I guess your own. job and spending power uh so for example my friend's an editor of a of a weekly magazine in uk and he's always expensed everything through his work because mostly he travels for work so he's got millions of points to use personally right so yes i guess my point my question is for

• Speaker #0

  straight to the points do you concentrate on one of those three or does it not matter i don't situation it's if you have points and want to travel i'm here to help you fly at the front of the plane That's pretty much what it is. The kind of entry is, oh, I have points. And generally a decent amount of points because business class flights, you know, one way to Europe on the cheapest end is like 34,000 points one way. That's super cheap. Yeah. But it could be depending on like which airline, 87,000 one way. So you're generally booking round trip. You double it. You know, you need a decent number of points. In the U.S., it's a lot easier because as. as you found out people have 30 credit cards if they want them and they all have sign up bonuses and then maybe after a few years you get it again and i mean there's just it's it's i mean it's there's definitely that kind of game aspect loyalty programs have the gamification side of things um sometimes banks and airlines and hotels regret that but it's also a big part of why people like play and get engaged with their products so it's it's uh i i do feel like it's a It's a double-edged sword in a sense. It makes it sound worse than it is, but it's for them. But yeah. And then on the consumer side, it's one of those things where I always tell people is like, you don't want to get into this if you don't have really strong financial habits or if you're not in a position. Like if you're not in a position to pay everything off, like don't play this game. It's not worth getting into it. There are. um more important things to focus on um so it's more like is this the right time for you um yeah i mean back when i first got out of college this was not the that was not the right time for me i was barely making any money uh i was just like like i just wasn't i wasn't going to be able to hit the minimum spends for signup bonuses on cars and i and it's not a it's not a good idea to just go spend money to spend money to go hit a bonus so yeah it's uh yeah you're just kind of you want to make sure you're in a good position before you kind of delve into financial products like i'm not a financial advisor like to yours that kind of thing um but i just like i don't want to see anybody do something that's a hobby that causes any kind of harm yeah

• Speaker #1

  i totally get that when he told me about the 30 credit cards thing i think two things came to mind one organization i'm like can i organize to keep track of all that new spreadsheets and everything i'm like i don't think that's for me and obviously two is the spending thing right do i you Do I spend enough to get all those things? You know, loyalty bonuses, signup bonuses. And that's the question, right?

• Speaker #0

  And that's why I tell people, it's like, you don't have to do this. If it's all just overwhelming, 2% cashback credit card in the US, like super easy. Yeah. You don't have to think. Like, just don't trouble yourself. It's like, this is niche. This is like obsessed travelers who want to do more travel. or travel nicer and they want to travel nicer more often and like it's it's and then to some extent it's just like some of us just love it um of course yeah and so we do it but okay how does the um straight to the points award alerts work in terms of i guess alerting people for deals yeah the the main thrust of it is like i'm searching for award space to send out now i'm trying to do more than like oh here's one date What I'm generally looking for is like, I want to see like a chunk, like two, three, four, five, six months, 10 dates in each month. Like, um, I guess preferably round trip. Um, and so I'll get those dates. I'll put into the newsletter and I'll share like the different points you can use. Um, so as an example, I think you said you you've been spending time in Canada, uh, air Canada, arrow plan is a star Alliance program. You can book any of their partners. with arrow plan points and so you can also do that with united miles or singapore chris flyer they're all starline so i'll list all the different programs you can use to book but i'll also include a section where i explain like here's why you want to use this one here's why you want to use this one and it's based around the points that are available in the u.s especially with credit cards so it's kind of like if you earn amex points this is your best option if you have city points this is your best option um and just kind of like breaking down like how to think about um using your points where it may be the case where maybe american miles are the cheapest for one but they're really hard to earn so maybe using cathay pacific's programs since they're easier to earn but they can book the same flight it's just kind of working through this decision tree for people um so that's i honestly that is the educational component of what i do the other part is just very much like Here's how to find the space. Here's the points you want to use. Here's how many you need. Go do it. This part is where I think people, and I've had readers tell me this, where they start to think about points differently. And so if they need to travel somewhere and it's not just them waiting for an alert, they're able to take what they've learned from this section and apply it then when they're going out to book something specifically. So it's, uh, I'm trying to get you on the plane, but if. the deal isn't right for you in that moment. I'm still trying to like help you kind of push forward and make this easier for you.

• Speaker #1

  But the fact that you break down the specifics to which each card can give you. So what I mean by that is for me, cause I don't know too much about it. It's more like probably get one credit card. I'll hit the signup bonus points and get 50, a hundred thousand where there's another spend it on travel. I like the fact that you could even advise if you've got 10 credit cards, maybe they're better for. I don't know, buying gas because they give you five times the points, whatever it is, right? So you break it down into that granular level.

• Speaker #0

  So that's, and that's, so that aspect, the earning side is really interesting to me. So I think, and this is how I think about it, where it's like, if you have a points program where I know people are going to earn these points faster. That means using a few more might not be a bad thing compared to a, you know, a program where it's like, I'm going to be earning them really slowly. If you, if you have a program like that, they may be really valuable American airlines specifically, like their miles are really valuable, but you don't want to just like throw them away on something that you could have booked easily with something else, knowing that maybe they have an award rate for a particular flight that is just amazing value. And you know, you want to do that. So like. Yeah. Those for that, like go book that where you can access it or can't access it as easily with another program. So again, it's just, uh, I understand why it's so complicated. And a lot of people are like, Oh, I don't want to think about this. That's fine. I get it. That's why I'm just here to try to make the process easier.

• Speaker #1

  It sounds like another job to really work out all these nuances, right?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And it's, it's fun. And I it's some of it's just fun trips for people. Other times it's, they're going to see family. They haven't seen. Yeah. Yeah. in ages or there i mean uh i mean i remember there was a client a client a reader or whatever like that was going to introduce their kids to their like extended family in india and like it's not a cheap ticket even if you're paying cash for economy it can be a thousand dollars more than a thousand dollars to go to india and so i mean then even if you can book two tickets if you have a family of four but you can book two of them with points Like you've cut your costs in half. Like that's, it's, it doesn't have to be all or nothing. And I think there's something amazing about that where you can kind of connect people around the world. Um, thanks to points.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. I like that. There's a bit of genuine thinking behind it. It's not just like get this points and get this money. It's more about trying to connect people who may be, might find it hard to really actually travel that far because of costs or whatever. Right. And you're trying to help reduce the costs.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And it's, I mean, I had back surgery several years ago and I've met many people who are just like, I cannot fly across the world at economy without being in excruciating pain. And like, if I can help you, but again, knowing how to use all these programs to maximize them is very difficult. If I can take away that stress and you don't have to spend all your free time figuring that out, you can go do your job, hang out with your kids, hang out with your friends, have hobbies, and then I'll just kind of show you what to do and you don't have to be miserable. I feel like this is a good option. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  yeah. I can't see anything wrong with it. How does the straight to the point membership levels work? Because you have two or three levels, right?

• Speaker #0

  So there's the free version. I call it economy. It's basically less information in the newsletter 72 plus hours after the premium members get it. I'll still give you kind of a date. range. I'll still tell you what airline, how many seats it's, you just decide that you're okay missing out on some deals because they're not going to be there anymore because you'll get it late. And you've decided that, you know, points so well that you don't need any help. Um, what I do find though, is people are really good at points, appreciate not having to find all the dates. And so they actually really like getting the premium version, but that's, that's the free version. And then there's a monthly and an annual version of the premium version. Um, same, same benefits you just get i think it's a 45 discount if you do the annual if you look at it as a 12 month thing um so yeah so monthly is 14.99 annual is 99 so it's a much better just like when booking travel thinking long term is important um so um yeah those are the those are the different levels and basically just premium gets priority you get it early you get all the details like i'm i'm spelling it out for you And then I also, for my US readers, you'll see there's a mission here. I just want what's best for my readers, whatever that is. And so when it comes to getting credit cards, while I have affiliate links, like a lot of creators in the point space, if my affiliate doesn't have the best offer, I'm going to collect referrals from my readers if they have the best offer via their own referral. So like the best way to think is affiliates, a business relationship, referrals are coming from you as a card holder. you're allowed to refer somebody. So if I can get an applicant the best offer by giving them your referral and you can get some referral points as a bonus, like I'm happy to connect. So that's another benefit of being a premium member. So they get to earn extra points, which then helps them travel more.

• Speaker #1

  And is there like a time component to this? Because if you're a premium member and you get it 72 hours before the free one, is there sort of time limit on the offer? So if you find something that's maybe really good, but. maybe loads of other people know it as well, maybe some other guy used it in the same thing. Is there a bit of a race to get that booked?

• Speaker #0

  It depends on the airline that you're booking. In the past, this is an older example, but Qantas out of Australia, they still rarely release business and first class space to the US on their flights, especially for two people. It's been a while actually since I've seen it. But there was a time, I mean, I remember this is years ago, I sent an alert and I think something like... Within an hour, 30 people had told me they booked anywhere from two to four seats each for themselves. And within about three hours, Qantas pulled the space. It was gone. And I remember a friend of mine sending me a text message just enraged that he just wasn't by his phone and didn't see it. And he didn't get it. I was like, I don't know, man. You know the rules here. You know the rules. Have your phone by you. But... I mean, there are some like that. And I also send some cash fares here and there. And sometimes cash fares are just insanely good and they go really quickly. So it's sometimes it's hours, sometimes a day, two, three days, whatever. But that's the the only way you're guaranteeing you're getting what I'm sending is if you're on the premium list to get it right away. And I mean, again, I've had things disappear within an hour. And sometimes people will even on the premium list. They're like, I don't see anything. And I'm like, oh, yeah, that that lasted. 50 minutes. And it's a, so now also the premium list gets text messages. That was my solution to that. Cause I understand some people don't want their email. Like you get so much spam email. You don't want your paying constantly. So I was like, I will send you a text message. So now people have the option to get texts and that helps. Um, I remember having a reader, he texted back, please stop sending these on my long drives. I can't keep pulling.

• Speaker #1

  Oh yeah.

• Speaker #0

  So yeah, it's a crash. It's fun. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So yeah, that's the, the gist of the newsletter. It's just making things easier for people to fly in the front of the plane when they're flying, you know, six, seven, eight, 14 hours, whatever.

• Speaker #1

  How does it work for like exact itineraries? How flexible do you need to be for these points?

• Speaker #0

  So I would say. What I do is I'm trying to find the nonstop flight out of the US or Canada. I include Canadian departures because I do have some Canadian readers. The idea is that, let's say the flight's out of JFK in New York. If you live in Boston, you may be able to get a connection as part of the award ticket. And if you can't, there's often like a cheap flight you can just get from Boston to JFK, and we call it repositioning. So you just get yourself to JFK. You got to make sure you leave yourself enough time just in case there's delays. Yeah, but it just makes so it rather than thinking about it as like, oh, the deal starts here. That's not for me. It's it's more about like, OK, is there a connection? Is there a positioning flight? Does as someone who lives in D.C., we have a major airport in Washington, Dulles, but I go to JFK all the time. And honestly, like it's usually a positioning flight. There's just not a lot of like connecting award space when I'm booking. And so I'm just getting my own flight. If I'm going to Newark just outside of D.C., I. take the train like just um whatever it takes um so yeah there's there's a lot of that i mean i'm somebody who's crazy enough to position to like vancouver from dc um but if you offer me a set like 670 business class ticket to sydney from vancouver i'm gonna like make my way over there yeah yeah yeah that

• Speaker #1

  makes sense it's like trains in uk if you can get like a decent train for a decent price uh you can make just go another way there to get that train right so yeah yeah okay yeah

• Speaker #0

  So if you're looking for something specifically, what I tend to tell people is like, I send four to five of these a week, sometimes more. Things just go crazy. I always try, like my rule is I'm not going to send you something just so I can say, hey, I sent you something this week. I'm not here to blow up your inbox and waste your time. But I'm going to send enough that like, I'm probably going to hit what you want. And I'm probably going to hit dates you can go. And so there's a... like you have good odds. Um, now if you decide to just go book something else anyway, like great, more power to you. I'm just happy for going. Um, but I'm probably going to hit it at some point. Um, so it's just a matter of like, does the route work for you on the date that you are, are you able to commit to booking at that time? I mean, it's just, it just depends where you are. And sometimes, I mean, some people it's like, I can't book until we're within like two months. So I send some of those just to like mix it up. Others I send. I mean, one thing I would say is like, if you want to travel in the summer, start thinking about it in the end, at the end of the previous summer. Because especially to Europe, let me specify from the US to Europe, just like that's peak time to go. Yeah. And they're going to sell cash tickets. So you've got to be ready to book whatever award space is available. And they're not going to make a lot of it available, especially as you get closer. And so inevitably, every like March, April and May, I hear from people saying like, I just can't find anything. There's nothing. And I was like, I know I sent it last August. Like it's it's over. We did this.

• Speaker #1

  So right now is for next year, next summer, basically. Oh,

• Speaker #0

  I'm already sending stuff for next summer. Yeah. And I'll even mention it in the email. I'm like, this is the time to be booking next summer. And I know not everyone can commit to that. But if you can, like that's, and I'll keep doing it all the way up into like February. And once we hit like March, I'm like, you're playing on like borrowed time here. Like you need to know that it's going to get really difficult. And that's okay. I mean, it's, again, it's part of the game. We adapt and.

• Speaker #1

  You can find me on social media, on Instagram, Twitter, Facebook and TikTok. Simply just search for Winging It Travel Podcast and you'll find me displaying all my social media content for travelling, podcasts and other stuff. Thank you. I think this sort of mentality is key for periods of time like Christmas, right? Because we're looking at Christmas flights going home to UK from Canada. Nightmare because they're so expensive. I think I'm thinking I should have been a bit more on it. early this year, right? Because they get booked up, they go up in price, and if you don't have points at the time, you lose out. So I guess timing is key, but also being organized to make sure if you're going in like hot summer or Easter or Christmas, you've got to get on it.

• Speaker #0

  It's almost a game of flexibility. The more flexible you can be, the easier it is. Are you willing to do two stops instead of nonstop or one stop? Are you willing to... position? Are you willing to travel on different dates? Are you willing? Like, I mean, all these things, the more you're willing to do, the easier it is. And like, some people don't have that ability. I mean, it's definitely tough when you have kids and they have school schedules or, or you're a teacher. Like, I mean, that's a really tough one for teachers where it's like, no, no, I can't go until the summer.

• Speaker #1

  I know it's the worst. And it's not going until the premium times.

• Speaker #0

  And then it's like, yeah. And it's so it's, and it's, it's, uh, and like some people just have the cash to throw a business class. And so what if it's $8,000 round trip right now because it's peak time. They do it. But a teacher is like, ha, I'm a teacher. It's a really tough thing for teachers, I think, to travel internationally. That's just hearing from readers. I don't envy that. But I think there's a lot of people who are in that position in different ways. And so it's seeing how flexible you can be with what you're doing. Sometimes that just means going at a different time. Sometimes it means flying in a day or two. earlier later than you initially had planned and just sometimes just shifting your schedule hopefully that's i mean to me that's like the win um sometimes it's like oh there's nothing this month let's see if i can go next month and that that sucks but um if you're not traveling for an event um you're just traveling for fun then i think a lot of people are able to make it work again it's not everyone um there's lots of different circumstances but yeah it's flexibility is it frees you up so much i mean even just like destination like i was saying if you want to go to japan but france is available like if you're flexible enough to just be like oh i'm gonna go to france instead great or vice versa i mean it's just uh yeah flexibility will make using points a lot easier yeah that's quite the key isn't it flexibility because i was talking to my friend the other day about that teachers that they do get a lot of time off but then they

• Speaker #1

  can only go away in the premium times yeah so you It depends how much they value travel because they're going to always be going to busy places unless they go somewhere extreme.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. And I mean, valuing travel, I think, is a really key point. I always I talk about is like, is it a priority? It doesn't have to be like this is it's a privilege to be able to like, I think I've gone to something like, I don't know, 60 countries. I'm not a country counter, but somewhere in that ballpark. And like, I'm so lucky to have done that. But I also like spend all my time thinking about travel.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, tell me about it.

• Speaker #0

  You get it. You get it. So that doesn't have to be the way it is for everybody. But you can't then be upset when things don't fall in your lap exactly as you want them to. Like things will fall into my lap. I'm currently trying to find my way to Kuwait and I'm just not having luck with my award tickets that I want, that I need, that I need them. And I, and in this case have stricter travel dates than I usually do. So I'm like every day, just kind of staring at things being like, well, what if I go to Chicago and then I fly to Rome and then I fly to Bahrain and then I fly to Kuwait. Like this is, but again, I'm willing to be a little bit nutty. So it's, yeah, it's again, it's. it's priorities and we can't always prioritize travel. I get that. Um, but I think for me, from like the, from the audience that I work with, there are people who say, Oh, I can't spend money on travel. And I'm like, I understand points is good. Points are great. But also I saw you spend $4,000 on going out to eat last month. So like, yeah. And that's cool. You love going out to eat. It's DC, it's expensive, whatever. That's cool. But you can't say that you can't travel. You can tell me that you care more about going out to eat. That's fine. I don't care. Like you prioritize whatever you love.

• Speaker #1

  They just need to be honest with themselves.

• Speaker #0

  Like I'm somebody who just rarely goes out to eat unless I'm traveling. I just don't care. And that's fine. But it's, I mean, I don't do other things because I want to have a bigger budget. for whether it's hotels, because I like nice hotels and or I just want to go to try more food while I'm traveling. Like, yeah, that's how I prioritize things. So I think there's there's a lot of that. You just have to think about what matters to you.

• Speaker #1

  That goes across anything. I spoke to someone who gets clients for her business and they say they can't afford it yet. They're going to spend two thousand dollars on a pram or something. Right. So they have got the money versus the prioritization of what you really want. And I think that even goes to careers, in terms of if you are a teacher, right. but you really want to travel, but traveling as a teacher is expensive because you're always going in premium times and you've got to weigh up as to, well, can I change my career so I can travel in non-expensive parts of the year?

• Speaker #0

  Or can you leverage what you're doing already to be able to... I mean, I do know teachers who do an amazing job. They go to, and this isn't like they do simple trips. They go do like multi-week things through Southeast Asia and they find, I mean, they hit the big cities, they hit the small cities, they... rural areas like that and they and they figure it out but it's like they put a lot of effort into those trips yeah like that's but that's what they care about um and that's where i think it's i know i try to come at come at it from a place of understanding i think we are all better off in that doing so where it's just like some of us are going to care about this some of us aren't that's fine like we can all be okay with that um if you like going to concerts spend all your money on concerts you like going out to eat do you exactly love if you love clothes or shoes or hats or whatever i don't care like sports go to go to all the different like football matches and baseball games like i'm happy for you um and my obsession is travel and that's where i can help people so that's what i prioritize same and we can talk about that yeah okay i've got a question for your website i don't really know what it means yes ask you

• Speaker #1

  Do you also send out cash deals for premium cabin flights? I'm not really sure what cash deal even means.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So I do send out cash fares. Business class is generally where that is and generally to Europe. Occasionally there's something so good that doesn't have anything to do with the US or Canada that I'll send it anyway. Just because I know I have some readers who are crazy like me and happy to go book a flight from like South Korea to Africa somewhere. where was that one to? Was it Kenya or South Africa? I don't know. It was from South Korea, though. I sent that and somebody booked it.

• Speaker #1

  So I know

• Speaker #0

  I know I have them in my audience as well. But yeah, I do send the occasional cash fare. It's not what I focus on as much. But you know, if there's a if there's a really good fare, I'll send it.

• Speaker #1

  Cash fare just means a generic fare for a ticket. That's all it means.

• Speaker #0

  Yep. Just pay in cash. And and yeah, you can earn. you can earn miles off of it of course um some and i do have readers in my audience who do have status with particular airlines and that's just kind of like a bonus that makes it easier for them to maintain it so yeah okay and do you always concentrate on north america or do you sometimes dip

• Speaker #1

  into international credit card markets if you like or if they've got some deals that seem super cool with your readers as well i guess they're kind of worldwide i imagine so you

• Speaker #0

  I, my Instagram audience is more international than my newsletter. So my newsletter, I send the focus is based on the points that are available in the U S because I know the credit card market here and I'm not going to misguide somebody and act like I know what's going on other places. And it's just very different here than other places. I do send a lot of alerts from Canada and there's a number of people in Canada who also have access to U S credit cards. So it's. It's easier that way. But they also have cards that are in aeroplane points and a different version of Amex membership awards than we have, but enough partners where like there's enough overlap.

• Speaker #1

  Okay.

• Speaker #0

  And again, it's departing from North America. It's more consistent. And I think a lot of Canadians who are very into travel are used to positioning to the U.S. to get a flight. So. If you're in Toronto, maybe the flight's out of JFK. It's, I mean, it's basically flying from DC. It's the same distance. Now you got to deal with immigration, I get, but it's still like a quick flight over. So I do focus on the US and Canadian flights.

• Speaker #1

  That's good to know that Canadians listen can get something like that as well. I think Aeroplan's next on my hit list for next year, right? I haven't really, I've concentrated on a few other cars this year, but it's a good program. Yeah, yeah, it's on my list for next year.

• Speaker #0

  yeah i'm keen to get that going it's uh it's interesting so like all my friends in the uk there's just like uh an attachment to british airways yes um i can't ever tell if it's a healthy relationship or not but like it's a strong relationship i

• Speaker #1

  think uk is interesting because we attach to ba because they go long haul and they get a lot of destinations but flying in europe is super cheap anyway i mean i booked a flight to greece from london for 20 one way i mean

• Speaker #0

  there's no way to get into points with that is there yeah i think i i booked uh i think i'd flown into every airport but luton in london and i booked a flight on whiz air from sarajevo to luton for like 40 bucks or something yeah yeah a couple years ago and i was i remember thinking at the time i was like such a great deal this is great and then i had to be i had to like be at the airport at 4 30 in the morning or something and i was and i was just like sarajevo was fun getting up at 4 30 was not fun like it was it was dark out there was like fog and i was like this tracks like this is what it should feel like at 4 30 in the morning i think our flight to greece was was there and that was early as well yeah i think they're cool not the best airline but hey um no uh i i don't love when the armrest won't move because i can't like get a little extra room and then the seat the like the pitch is so so small you That, you know, again, six, three, my knees are in the, I'm basically in the person's back in front of me. I'm sorry.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. I've got a couple of questions about what is the premium referral program? What does that do?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So that's, if you're a premium member, you can refer others to the premium in premium version and get 10 bucks for everybody who signs up for the annual version. Just a way to say to me, the points in travel world, it's a very much a community. um and it's just i'm just a small way to kind of give back and say thanks to my readers who are kind of helping spread the word so how can you and your team assist with someone getting started with that today yeah so we have a quick start guide on the site um it's under resources if you go to my website um truly it's meant to just give you a quick overview of kind of the main points that you just need to understand to make sense of what anybody's talking like It's, it can be really overwhelming to walk into people who are really into a conversation with people who are really into points and you hear all these terms and words and you're like, ah, this means nothing. And, and I get that we've all been there. So this is mostly about just getting you up to speed so that you can even understand the help that someone's going to give you.

• Speaker #1

  Got it.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Makes sense. And so I think that's just like, I, I, I, I look at it as just like, when you learn anything new, everything is going to feel overwhelming at first. And you just have to be patient with yourself. It's just like one step at a time, you build a kind of foundational understanding, and then you can apply that same kind of method of learning to each thing that you learn within the kind of points and travel world. So just have to do a little work up front to get the benefits after.

• Speaker #1

  And the website is there for people to sign up and obviously find out more about what you do.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it's straight to the points dot C-O. It's not dot com. Somebody owns that and won't sell it to me. Doesn't even use it, just sits on it.

• Speaker #1

  That's the point. It's not C-O. Okay. I'll put it in the show notes to make sure you'll click the right link.

• Speaker #0

  Every time I send somebody my email, I'm like dot C-O, not dot com in parentheses.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. That's a bit annoying though, isn't it? Because dot com is the default, isn't it?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it is. And sometimes people just instinctually hit it and they think they didn't. And then they realized they dissent to the right. Oh,

• Speaker #1

  well. Okay. And they can sign up for a newsletter through that website as well.

• Speaker #0

  Yep. Yep. Sign up is right there. There's a button on the homepage.

• Speaker #1

  And what about social media? Where are you guys more prevalent there?

• Speaker #0

  Instagram is where I'm active. Yeah, it's straight to the points is the handle. Yeah, I'm in there every week. I try to answer pretty much all my DMs. It's hard sometimes. And now there's like the hidden requests box. So occasionally I get something, I'm like, where did that come from? Like, it's just somebody's been buried in there for two weeks amongst everybody telling me how I can get more followers or sell me to spam shoes. And I'm just like, I'm sorry, I tried to get to you. But. I just didn't see it. Amongst all of this.

• Speaker #1

  No TikTok, no.

• Speaker #0

  No,

• Speaker #1

  that's excellent.

• Speaker #0

  Instagram's my thing. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I think that's our generation probably. Yeah. I think that's our generation who, I guess, would you call yourself a millennial?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I'm a millennial. Same.

• Speaker #1

  So I guess we are a generation kind of doing it right at the minute. I guess like early doors, we're getting the credit cards. We probably earning okay now.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. That's Gen X. You got Gen X. You got a lot. Within the travel world. I mean, it's so interesting to see the differences. There's. there are people who are what was jet before gen x boomer yeah boomer yeah and like they like you can see patterns amongst i can see patterns amongst my readers who are in the boomer generation the gen x generation everything i mean uh to me generations are all kind of contrived whatever we're all just people doing things yeah but it's but you can see i think just like anything as you move through life you prioritize different things um and i also do like i do hotel bookings and like luxury hotels for clients these are cash bookings but you can see the difference in like somebody who wants to be in the party scene when they're at a hotel and someone who very much does not and wants quiet and like but i would be willing to bet that somebody who's currently asking me for like the hotel that has like the best pool vibe and everything like in 30 years they're gonna be like please keep me away from all of this and it's just like it's and maybe not maybe they will continue to but there's definitely like it just depends It depends where you are in life.

• Speaker #1

  What about the Gen Zs? Are they into this? Do you find? Is there many on your list?

• Speaker #0

  They're coming up. It's definitely more millennial, Gen X heavy right now. But yeah, it's just like anything, as you start making, I mean, again, if you're going to hit minimum spends to earn points on credit cards, you've got to have the income to one, support getting the card. You have to have built your credit score up to be able to get the credit cards. And. so that you're not just spending to spend. You actually want to be living within your means still. And so it's kind of as people can get into that first job that pays them a bit better than being the new guy or the new gal at some big company. So it's only once you kind of get in a bit deeper that you are able to do everything.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. That's awesome. I've got one more question about this and just came up to me. So it's a bit random. So I apologize, not on the notes. Amex cards, never had one, right? Now, am I wrong to assume that if you have an Amex card in UK, Canada, US, that if you're based one year in each, for example, and you'd never spend any points that you can transfer across to wherever you are at the current time and they work under the same umbrella?

• Speaker #0

  Like the UK, Canada, the US, Australia, a bunch of other countries, they all have Amex membership rewards. Each program is different. Right. So you have different transfer partners, different transfer ratios. The U.S. is typically one to one or with a minimum transfer of a thousand points. That's the standard. But a lot of countries, it's different than that. Australia has some pretty bad transfer ratios. UK is not as bad. Neither is Canada. But like it just it depends. I know Germany has membership awards and they transfer to a different set of partners. And it's just yeah, it's. Every country is different. And that's, I mean, it's probably the reason I haven't like tried to create like a Europe version of this because every country in Europe has a completely different set of credit cards while the US geographically is massive, but we all have the same access to the same credit card. So it's just like, it's the, if I could figure out the UK and the EU, I'm just like thinking of, I was like, I couldn't do it in the same newsletter. I'd have to have. But

• Speaker #1

  28 different versions yeah that'd be mental yeah yeah i guess my question would have been like yeah is there like a universal credit card but i guess there's not no every country has their own rules and yeah everything's on their own yeah yeah okay i think with canada you have a special rule for quebec so that makes it a bit more complicated maybe as well yeah it's always like Small text at the bottom of anything that says Quebec, different rules. Okay, all right. No idea why. No minefield. Okay, type of traveler. What are you? Maybe that's changed from traveling in the 90s to early 2000s to now.

• Speaker #0

  What's that journey been like? Were you more budget back then? Or have you always been mid range to luxury? How would you see yourself?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I would say I'm, I'm definitely more luxury. I mean, flights, obviously, that's like, since I got into points, I've been into the business and first class side of things. But hotels, I'm more luxury now, much more than I used to be. I mean, I'm a travel advisor, I like to go to the properties and see them so that I can recommend things for clients. But I also just have grown to really enjoy them until like, for me, it's fun to see them and like to see them operate. Um, it's, it's some, some properties just really good at executing and it's just fascinating to see that happen. Um, but before, I mean, when I first got into points, I wanted to fly at the front of the plane and then I just wanted a place to stay. And I was never, I was never going to be in the hotel. Like occasionally I would do something cause it was just like fun. I think I booked the park high at Sydney with points because it was just absurd and it looked really cool. So I did that. But I think. the day before I was there, I was at like a Holiday Inn Express or something. Yeah. I was never a hostile person, I guess I would say. I did that in college when I went to the UK with a friend whose family's from the UK and just had a gross shower experience. And I was like, this is just not me. I was like, I'm out. I think I was at a hostel in like Oxford or something. And I was like, can't do it. I don't know. I don't like this. So I started with cheap hotels, but nice flights. And I've... Very shortly after kind of getting into all this, I was working from wherever I was. So I don't really take vacation or holiday. I probably should, but I work from wherever I am. And so at that point, like, oh, having a club lounge at the hotel was really nice because I hate working from my room. Breakfast is not typically the meal where I'm going to try things. And so I would just post up in the club lounge and do my work. I got on my room and I knew breakfast was there. I didn't have to think about where I was going. I just got my stuff done and then I was out. Um, depending, depending on where I was going, I might reverse that and go in the evening. Um, just depending on what work I had, but that was, that was my style for a long time. Um, now I'm trying to like get a more of an experience while I'm there, even though I'm still working.

• Speaker #0

  That's my next question. Really? Like during the day, do you try and get maybe like a walking tour in or like, how do you get your experiences in?

• Speaker #1

  I, I love walking tours. I absolutely do. Um, yeah. And honestly, like I've done paid ones that are amazing. I've done free ones that are amazing. I mean, it's just, it's like anywhere and it's tough to know. I think recommendations are great. I always like to ask people. And now when I get, like when I have great tours, I recommend them in my newsletter. When I send things out and it's like, there's this guy named Antonio in Lisbon who just, I mean, an amazing guide. And so now whenever I send out a flight deal to Lisbon, I'm like, hey, if you need someone, He'll look you up. He's great. Same thing in Egypt. I've worked with a guide there a couple times and I've sent countless readers and friends there and everybody loves him. And so anytime I send something for like Egypt, I'm just like, Hey, get ahold of Taha. He'll take care of you. And like, and people do, and they're like, he's amazing. And I'm like, this is, I think that's how, I don't know. It's so hard to find what or figure out who to trust when it comes to guides, because it could just be somebody who just doesn't really care that much. Or you could have somebody who just like brings a place to life.

• Speaker #0

  And so if I,

• Speaker #1

  if I could meet anybody like that, I want them to like, one, I want them to have more clients, but two, I just want all my readers to like have that kind of that same experience when they go somewhere. It's speaking English is like the cheat code.

• Speaker #0

  It is. Lucky, aren't we?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. I mean, so lucky. It's not like I figured it out, like in a video game back when I was a kid. I just, I was just handed the cheat code. Yeah. It's wild.

• Speaker #0

  But yeah. Has there been a country or place that you traveled to that blew your mind?

• Speaker #1

  I love Taiwan. Oh, yeah. It's when I mention it, I get a lot of like, oh, I love Thailand. And I'm like, no, it's not Thailand. It's also a great also a great country and great food, but different food. And yeah, I think Taiwan has just I think it has amazing food. I think people are super friendly, helpful, welcoming. I've been to Taipei several times, but I've also like, I took high speed rail down to Kaohsiung. Oh, same.

• Speaker #0

  We did. Yeah. Same thing. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  And then came back through Chiayi and then, uh, great city for food. Um, and then went to, I think it was Taichung on the way to, I'm probably mispronouncing everything. I'm sorry, but, um, and then came back to Taipei and I've been to Taipei since, so I just, I love it there. Um, yeah, it's just, it's a cool spot. It's beautiful.

• Speaker #0

  the street food is almost unrivaled. I think if you, if I say to anyone going to Taiwan, just spend a week eating food because there's different markets every day.

• Speaker #1

  Yep. Did you have stinky tofu?

• Speaker #0

  Yep. Tried some of that.

• Speaker #1

  Your face does not tell me you enjoyed that experience.

• Speaker #0

  There's a few interesting things I tried. Yeah, that was okay.

• Speaker #1

  I haven't tried it yet. And that mostly stems from like an experience trying durian that just did not mix well with me. And I felt bad for a long time. And like, I was determined to be a person who likes durian. So it was one of those things where I tried it initially, like instinct was like, this is just not going to mix well with me. But I kept going because I was like, no, I'm going to make myself like. And it didn't work and I didn't feel great for like eight hours. And that's just, you know, how it goes. But I wasn't really willing to sacrifice eating all the food at a Taiwanese night market just to have stinky tofu. So maybe I will another time. I know some people love it.

• Speaker #0

  I've just got to try it. Yeah. Yeah. I guess you've got to try it. What's coming up for 2024 travel wise and then go into 2025. What's on your list or plans?

• Speaker #1

  So 2024. Kuwait and then maybe Istanbul or Dubai or Bahrain before that. And then I think that's it. I have a kid now, so it's a little slower pace, but we'd already, I'd already done a lot of travel this year, so I can't complain. Um, next year Buenos Aires and Antarctica, uh, as part of a trip. Oh, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Can't put that one on points.

• Speaker #1

  Can you? Yeah, I know. You cannot. But I did find a really good deal for the cruise over, so that was good. Okay. I'm still a deal hunter, but yeah, I'm so excited about that.

• Speaker #0

  Never been. It looks incredible. It looks incredible.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's hard to put into words. I don't know. I think when I started traveling, it wasn't even something in my mind that I thought, oh, yes, I'll do that. So now I'm still like...

• Speaker #0

  giddy like a small child like getting a birthday gift or something where i'm like i'm going so yeah i'm really excited about that it's one of those places that you just gotta accept you gotta spend some money and i think that's easier in a way absolutely especially for you right if you're if you're constantly finding deals or points it must it must be quite nice sometimes you know antarctica i found a good deal but you just gotta spend the money because what other choices you got yeah it must be quite nice sometimes and i mean i feel good about it because like i booked a business class ticket

• Speaker #1

  to Buenos Aires that ended up being like, I don't know, $750 round trip, which is significantly cheaper than usual. Um, I have to go to Denver to get the flight speaking of being willing to go anywhere for a good flight deal, but I'm going to use points to get out there. And so, you know, in the grand scheme, like people spend thousands of dollars to get there and they spend thousands of dollars. Like, it's just like, I'm, I'm, I'm severely reducing the cost that I have to pay for this, but I've, I'm very fortunate that I booked a great cruise line. Great experience on board. A friend of mine has already done it. So I'm very much looking forward to it. And I'm taking a friend, which will make it even better.

• Speaker #0

  That's pretty exciting. Yeah. Pretty jealous of that. I just don't think it's on my radar for another couple of years.

• Speaker #1

  I'll send you a photo maybe while I'm on the ship and be like, I don't know, maybe you should be doing this sooner rather than later.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, thanks. I appreciate that. Okay. On that bombshell, we're going to finish with some quickfire travel questions. These are some of your favorite things you've seen worldwide. And we like favorite foods and stuff. So, but I'm actually going to kick off with it's travel question time. Three favorite countries that you traveled to.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. Taiwan's obviously there. I really liked Germany, especially in the black forest. Spent two weeks driving around there a while back. I do the last one. I think so much of my travel now is with like, I like seeing friends who I've met along the way. So like Australia is a ton of fun for me because I get to go see one of my best friends. So that's just like, yeah, it's just kind of a personal thing versus, yeah, something completely out there.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. And excluding points, because that's the main part of the conversation. If tomorrow you can go to anywhere, three countries for a trip, which three countries are you going to go to?

• Speaker #1

  They're great question. I'd like to go back to South Africa. There's so much more that I haven't seen there. I want to go to the Monaco Grand Prix because I like Formula One racing. I just want to see the spectacle of it all. I know it's not the best race on the calendar per se, but I feel like it's just got to be a wild experience just to observe. And then, I mean, Antarctica is already there, but that's cheating. I want to go spend time in Patagonia. That's the real thing.

• Speaker #0

  Lovely. Yeah, yeah. Okay. What's three of your favorite cuisines worldwide?

• Speaker #1

  Well, Taiwanese, which is like a nice meshing of Japanese and various parts of China. So that's fun. Other ones do I really like? This is probably one that Most people don't think of, but in the Balkans, there's cevapi. I don't know. Oh, cevap chichi or cevap. I don't know. I saw it mentioned in different languages depending on the country. Really enjoyed that. If you like, if you eat meat, that's a good one. What else? Turkish. I really like food in Turkey. Absolutely amazing food.

• Speaker #0

  Big one. Yeah. Okay. And if you could sit somewhere for an afternoon with a cup of coffee and watch the world go by, where are you going to sit?

• Speaker #1

  I don't really drink coffee. uh that's a wine yeah it's not like yeah whatever that's a wine yeah whatever um man where would i sit the black forest was great it's i really love mountains um but i think if i would think i would probably try to find somewhere in the like switzerland italy area with like a mountain and water i like mountain and lakes together so that's that's where i think i'd be chilling unrivaled that okay are you a sunrise or sunset person I'm not really a morning person. However, I love sunrise flights. Okay. I got to like suffer for the view.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it's worth it in the end, isn't it? I think.

• Speaker #1

  Absolutely. Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. If you're going to go to a country tomorrow and you're looking to look at a landmark for the first time, could be nature or man-made, where are you going to check out?

• Speaker #1

  I actually don't know. I mean, I love tall buildings, but I've seen a lot of them. However, I would love to see the new one in Kuala Lumpur. It's one of the tallest buildings in the world. oh there's a new one yeah um i can't remember the name of it now but it is i drove by like i was in a taxi kind of at a distance when it was being built but i would like to go back and go to the top um i've been there a few times but yeah i guess that's before it's new because they have the patronus towers um and i've done that um and kl tower as well yeah yeah yeah then there's I've been to the Burj Khalifa in Dubai, Taipei 101 in Thailand. That's one of my favorites because they have the damper up top and you can see how it works if there's an earthquake. And now they let you go even higher and they strap you onto something and let you stand outside. Definitely did that the moment it was open. Wow. I've got pictures of me just grinning like an idiot, standing outside on top of that building.

• Speaker #0

  Crikey. If you could go and live somewhere tomorrow for one year, where do you think you'd live?

• Speaker #1

  Really would like to live in Spain slash Portugal with split time. I think that would be fun. But we'll go with Spain since you said one. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  it's fine.

• Speaker #1

  Great wine, great food. It seems like just a beautiful place. And if you want, you can go to like the Canary Islands during that year because technically it's still Spain.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. internal yeah cheating yeah yeah well i went to madera in uh in december that's internal from lisbon right but uh four hour flight whether it's all three hours yep okay and has there been a place you traveled to that you didn't like i

• Speaker #1

  don't know if i would say didn't i don't think there's anywhere i've been where i'm like oh this is awful i just there's probably places where i'm like i just that's enough okay moldova moldova was that um for me It's the least touristed country in Europe, as I learned. It just didn't, I don't know, just didn't fully connect with me. I did, it was worth going. I popped into, what's it called? Transnistria or Pridnop. Oh, yeah. Depending on.

• Speaker #0

  Russian proxy places.

• Speaker #1

  It's, they were the only part of Moldova that voted to stay with the Soviet Union back in like the early 90s. Yeah. but it's just so it's just kind of interesting to go again it's very different yeah than anything it's like than anything i'm around so it's just kind of like fun to pop in for a day get a tour wander around and you know back out there's a harry potter statue there which i think is hilarious like everybody loves harry potter apparently it doesn't matter where you go in the world there's gonna be a harry potter statue international language harry potter yeah i guess so yeah

• Speaker #0

  sure and talk to the money

• Speaker #1

  uh in your experience of traveling what country has had the best budget so where does a dollar go to furthest do you think i mean i'm sure i could just like look it up and there's it's like math but um i think thailand works really well if you're trying to like stretch it and so i'll add my twist because i like to add like a nice experience bangkok specifically has like luxury hotels at a price point that will stun you um like hotels that you go to other cities and you're like oh that'll be two thousand dollars a night and then in bangkok it's like 200 250 300 like it's it's a very different i mean it's i don't know how but it's just wild i think that's and i think that's fun and i think I always talk about luxury for less and just maybe you're not budgeting for, you know, the four seasons in London, which is a beautiful property in and of itself. But if it's like $400, not $1,500, like, yeah, it's still a splurge for a lot of people, but it's an opportunity to try something. Yeah. And maybe one day you get to the point where you're just booking the one in London or Paris and it doesn't even matter to you. But this is like a city where you can kind of go get a taste of something and try something different. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  that's quite an interesting point because if you have a budget and you just want to experience what it could be like, obviously if you're going to have, I don't know, you've got a week and you've got $3,000 making this up. If you're going to spend that in Australia, you're going to get nowhere. But if you go to somewhere like, I don't know, the Philippines or Thailand and just kind of live it there, you're going to experience what it could be like in the future. It's a good, it's a good site into the future about, well, if I work towards this. Maybe I want to go to the U.S. and do that or Canada. I know what it's going to be like in terms of saying those hotels or doing those experiences.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And so, I mean, I mentioned I do luxury hotel bookings for clients. Like part of that is like I'm an agent with partnerships with different hotel programs. So we have benefits to these days. So like if before you commit to kind of really spending a ton of money on luxury hotels, I think it's a great idea to kind of just figure out what it is you want in a hotel. Yeah. And maybe you decide that like, you don't want it and Holiday Inn is what you want. That's great. But if this gives you the opportunity to kind of see what's out there, see what's available, let you make that kind of informed decision and you do it in a way where it's not so cost prohibitive, I think that's just like a great way to kind of find what your travel style is or what you want your travel style to be. And it's, I think, and I definitely viewed this. viewed it this way for a long time it's kind of like luxury hotels are for other people it's not for me it's for other people and and it just seemed like it must be people who have so much money they don't even think about it it was only as i learned more about this and you know started doing it myself where it's like oh it's again it's prioritizing yeah um and so yeah am i in a position where i can just like book the suite at every hotel every time i stay someone no but i take the opportunities where i'm like hey this is like an experience I'd like to have. It's within the budget. I would like to try this. Again, it's just where you are in life. But that's one. I do like Bangkok for that. And Thailand broadly for food, obviously. Just a good spot.

• Speaker #0

  It is my favorite country in the world for food. Definitely. I'll kind of switch between there and India. They're the two. Okay.

• Speaker #1

  You know, I've never been to India. I've been to Sri Lanka, but I've never been to India.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. It's a good taster.

• Speaker #1

  I like Sri Lanka. It was good. I was there when the world shut down in 2020 and had to like... scramble to get off get out oh god out yeah they were like i think they had said they were going to close airspace in two days and my friends but i were like we should leave but it was a beautiful place and the hotel was super friendly trying to help us so i was having this conversation with a friend who's actually in where

• Speaker #0

  is he pakistan right now and we talked about food and the question with food is how long can you go with a local cuisine without needing to go to western food or a different cult cuisine right so i think for me the only two like you gotta be honest with yourself the only two countries i think for me that is that i've been to is thailand and india i think i could eat that all the time whereas yeah even in italy i still get a bit annoyed that's controversial uh

• Speaker #1

  oh this amazing pasta again i guess i mean if you're in italy you just go to the northern part and it becomes more like austrian you Like you can get this name, kind of schnitzel thing once you hit Milan.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. But I guess that's probably too similar to my own cuisine, but something like India is street food, or if you're eating locally, different ballgame. Yeah, that's great.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. I think for me, it's Taiwan. I mean, I just, I had so much food there, different types. I mean, turkey rice, it's so, turkey rice, chicken rice, whatever, just like white rice, meat. Yeah. It seems so simple. And it was like a grandmother made, truly, it was just like a grandmother made it. And I remember thinking, I remember thinking like, this can't be like that great. And I took a bite of it and I was like, oh man, that's just like, that's comfort food. I get it. It's better than, I mean, I make rice and turkey and chicken and it doesn't taste the same. I don't know what you did, but like, could you just make my food?

• Speaker #0

  That's what you pay for, right? Yeah. Oh, yeah. Okay. Last question for the podcast episode is, in a few sentences, if someone's listening right now, maybe even especially Americans. who are maybe a bit nervous traveling abroad and getting experienced in terms of like different culture what few senses can you give to advise them to maybe take a leap and get out there just go

• Speaker #1

  I feel like I should have something more serious and thought out. But oddly enough, the first trip I used points on was a solo trip from the US to the Middle East, to Australia, to Singapore and Malaysia and then back. And that was the first time I'd ever traveled with points or solo. So I'm clearly somebody who's just like, oh, we'll just see what happens. I know that's not necessarily the safest way for everybody to do that. I think finding a buddy to just go with you is a great way to do it, though. Um, I think you're safer, but also you just feel more comfortable having somebody there. Um, but if you're willing to like, and you feel like you can do it safely, like go travel solo, like that's a fun experience. I learned solo travel is not like my thing. I'll do it. I like it enough, but it's not like my obsession the way it is for some people. Yeah. Um, but I think, yeah, I think trying that once is a good idea. Um, Yeah. But yeah, I think it's about learning where to push yourself and where to say, okay, I'm not comfortable with this. Find a country where you feel comfortable going solo. Doesn't have to be anything crazy. Go to the UK. I don't care. Go to Ireland, whatever. Ireland. Yeah, I mean, you know, whatever. That's fine. Go somewhere that makes you comfortable to start. I often tell people who are like. going to Asia feels so far away. And so I'm like, listen, just go to Singapore first. Like you'll see a lot of English. You'll hear a lot of English, plenty of shopping malls, but you have hawker centers. So you get like street food, but it's very organized. Yeah. It's good. It's good food. And you can just get yourself over there, but you can ease in. And so you can like, you can hear your language first, not that you won't hear English again, but it's just, it makes it easy. And then from there you just go like Thailand and like everybody's so friendly in Thailand and it's another step. And I think it's more just kind of like progressing through things. And like anything, the better infrastructure a country has, the easier it'll be for you. So just knowing that You're going somewhere where things are like kind of set up to operate well and they're in a position to do so. It's just easier. So there and then as you go, you start to kind of learn things and then you can navigate things that aren't as easy. Egypt, I don't think is easy to travel. I think having a guide there is really great. It just helps make everything easier. So like, great. Learn that to figure out where you're going to want to help. I know this is not a short answer. I'm sorry. But in the end, I'm just like, just go. It's kind of how I look at it.

• Speaker #0

  It's the best advice. Yeah. So many people say it.

• Speaker #1

  Now I have a question for you real quick. And maybe you've answered this many times, I'm sorry, but I haven't heard it yet. Is there a place on the planet that you're just like, oh, this is the one spot I'd really like to go.

• Speaker #0

  as in I've been to before or what I think?

• Speaker #1

  No, no, what you haven't been, where you think like, I just really want to go see this.

• Speaker #0

  I've always had an obsession with paradise in quotation marks there. And my obsession with what that looks like. And I think what that looks like is something like French Polynesia. So Bora Bora or anywhere on those islands, I just have an obsession to go and see it. So I think. I've been to quite a few countries, but I think that's the one where they, you know what, tomorrow, I'll ask you a question tomorrow, where are you going to go? If there's no rules tomorrow, I'm off to French Polynesia. So that's the place. Is it paradise? That's the question, isn't it? Is it as good as I think it's going to be?

• Speaker #1

  I know many people who would say it is. So that's a really good one. I think for me, it's Socotra. oh and that's it's so diamond yeah yes yeah i just think it'd be so and i've seen the trees have this like certain look and it's just like i don't know it's just i think there's so many and i'm sure there are lots of places like that a friend of mine mentioned it and i was like no i really want to go um yeah friend of mine does a tour there yeah he guys tour stuff there yeah that's excellent he loves it um but that's just the i don't know i think there's a lot of places like that that i haven't even heard of or thought of and i want to just kind of like go see just to see um and just kind of experience that that is just different um yeah so like out there a little bit not really talked about that much there's loads of places like that for me i think there's i mean for someone who's been like making content on instagram admittedly much more educational than the kind of like typical stuff but I don't know. There's so many places back when Instagram had photos and everybody would go to the same place and take the same photo. And I just, nothing about that appealed to me. It just seemed like people were just going to say they went to the place. And I was, I don't know. It just seems like there's so, there's gotta be more than just the like 100 places that everybody takes a photo of. And so, and I know there, there is, it's just like, I think the hard part is finding them and it's.

• Speaker #0

  it's like it's got to be word of mouth almost somebody does something and yeah and i kind of like that idea so a friend told me about sakotra and now i'm into it yeah it's on my list i'll give you another answer because i think french polynesia borbora has always been talked about i think there's photos everywhere i'll tell you somewhere who kind of follows the same line so i think it might paradise which is a bit unknown is the andaman islands uh technically the west of thailand they are indian now oh yeah well they look incredible and they're super apparently super cheap And it's like Thailand back in the 90s in terms of no one there, pristine beaches, but no one goes. But no one in India goes, like in terms of like locals, right? Even though it's international. Yeah, yeah. So Andaman Islands is probably the unusual shout for me if you're going to Socotra, yeah.

• Speaker #1

  I like that. Okay, good stuff.

• Speaker #0

  There you go, yeah. Spencer, what a great chat. Yeah, it's been amazing. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, thanks for having me. That's a lot about points, what you're up to, and also travel. in terms of what you've done previously, but also what's coming up. And yeah, it's been super engaged in chat.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's great chatting with you.

• Speaker #0

  Cheers. Thank you. Thanks for tuning in to the podcast episode today. If you've been inspired by today's chat and want to book some travel, if you head to the show notes, you'll see some affiliate links below, which helps support this podcast. You'll find Skyscanner to book your flight. You'll find Booking.com to book that accommodation. Want to stay in a super cool hostel? You'll see Hostelworld down there too. You'll find Revolut to get your travel card sorted. Click the GigSky link to get your eSIM ready for your trip. And more importantly, you'll find Safety Wing Insurance to get that travel insurance for your trip. There are many more to check out. So when you click that link and book your product, a small commission goes towards me and the Wigging It Travel podcast. Thank you in advance and enjoy your travels.