What Leaders Want | Chief SaaS Transformation Officer & Head of Specialized Finance strategy at SBS - James Powell

Description

"One piece of financial advice I wish more people followed is never pay cash for a new car. They're fantastic financial products, leasing and in the UK PCP (Personal Contract Purchase) where you can get a new car with a much lower payment and you don't have to pay for the depreciation of the asset. I would never advise anyone to buy a new car with cash."

What do leaders truly want? In this episode of What Leaders Want, we’re sitting down with James Powell, Chief SaaS Transformation Officer and Head of Specialized Finance Strategy at SBS, to get a glimpse beyond the job title.

We’ll dive into the key moments of his career, debunk the biggest myths about specialized finance, and explore whether SaaS is truly the game-changer it claims to be. James also took on real-world challenges and rapid-fire questions, answering on the spot.

Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Welcome to What Leaders Want, the podcast series that features leaders in the finance industry. Today, we'll have a discussion with James Powell, who is Chief SaaS Transformation Officer and Head of Specialized Finance Strategy at SBS. And we are going to get to know both the person and benefit from his industry expertise. Hi James, thanks for being with us and sharing your time.
Speaker #1
Hello Caroline, glad to be here.
Speaker #0
So before we dive in, how would you present yourself at a dinner party and what you do?
Speaker #1
How would I present myself? It's James, that's my name. I think your personality is the best way to present yourself. So you present yourself with the way that you behave at that dinner party and the things you say. And what would I do? I know it's pretty obvious, but a dinner party should be fun, whether it's a formal one or informal one. So I think I like to tell stories, I like to... to keep it light. And I also like to listen to stories. Some people might not know me for listening, but I like to listen to stories. And maybe I even use people some stories in the future, particularly if they're funny. So storytelling.
Speaker #0
I've interviewed a lot of C-levels, and I've noticed that they all have a defining trait, kind of superpower that shaped their journey. Could be empathy, could be determination, etc. Would you say humor is your secret weapon?
Speaker #1
I do like to use it. I think I like to use it to... in serious situations and in less serious situations. So maybe you've given me a leading question there. I think it's more about being able to relate to people. So you mentioned empathy, I think, understanding other people's feelings and how they're feeling. And then you can use your humor in the right circumstances. Every now and then I get it wrong. But yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe you're right.
Speaker #0
How do you leverage humor in your professional life? And do you have an example where you used humor in a professional meeting and that went well?
Speaker #1
That's a really good question. So I think you can use humour in the beginning of meetings to kind of create some rapport. The icebreaker is the classic one always. But I think within a meeting, you can use it sometimes. As long as you're not overusing it, you can use it to break difficult situations. And so sometimes rooms get tense in a business environment. And yeah, humour just can break that down. Giving examples, that's a really difficult one, Caroline, and I'm not sure I can give you a good example right now. Maybe we'll come back to that later. Yeah. Okay,
Speaker #0
let's do that. I always like to hear how people find their way into this world. So was there a moment early in your career where you thought, wow, this is exactly where I'm meant to be? Or, oh gosh, what have I gotten myself into?
Speaker #1
I think to answer the first question, I realized quite soon. coming into software and it you don't think it's a people thing naturally you think it's a technical thing and i think i realized really soon in the roles that i came into i was always looking after customers i was engaging in projects i was involved with people and i realized it was a people relationship based business really quickly so i i was comfortable with that and i that was the the answer the first part of your question the second part i think is is directly related is that you when when you're younger in your career the first time you get into customer interaction where it's difficult you have tough conversations that's the moment where you go what have I got myself into um but obviously that becomes something that you understand is natural and then you just you know you get used to it but yeah certainly I you know I've really enjoyed my career because of the people nature of it it's fantastic difficult conversations come by but they
Speaker #0
get outweighed by all the good the good um interpersonal relationship stuff you have was there a particular moment or a challenge that shaped your career
Speaker #1
I don't think so. I mean, I would say that I think you get shaped by all of your experiences through your career, good or bad. And we've all had good and bad situations. So I don't think that I would point to any one situation. I've had a lot of good scenarios. I've had a lot of big successes that I'm really proud of. I've also had a lot of failures that you like to learn from. So I think it's more of an evolution rather than a single point that shapes you. I think you get shaped constantly.
Speaker #0
OK, so no turning point.
Speaker #1
No real turning point. I mean, one potential milestone for me was back in the, I'm showing my age now, but back in the late 1990s, I took the opportunity to go and work in Canada for the organisation I was working for, but a complete change of role. And it was a very different thing for me. That was a big thing for me in terms of the guy who got me to go there became my first mentor. And secondly, also got me the buzz about doing business internationally. experience in different cultures and different ways of doing business so I think that was probably the first key milestone for me in the late
Speaker #0
1990s. Okay I've seen that you used to be a sales do you remember the first major deal you were proud of?
Speaker #1
Oh yeah I mean I could point to quite a few hopefully I've been successful with sales over the years but I think the main one for me and it still resonates nowadays and it was in the mid-2000s ish we did a really big deal with Lombard there was actually a small deal when we did it but we knew that it had potential to be huge and i led the whole deal i won't bore you with the detail but um it became our biggest they became our biggest customer within two years the the way that we did the deal with them and the business that we were supporting for them it disrupted the whole market so it felt fantastic and and they they remain the biggest customer revenue wise in the specialized finance business so i'm i'm particularly proud of that and we just renewed with them and we've just moved them to the sas version 7 as well so really proud of that one did you have an oh no moment where something almost went off the rails um yeah again you know i'm going to go back to my project management days it wasn't really project management because i was working on big projects and in the early days of my career um doing some project management business analysis and i do remember a circumstance with a uk car you car importer into the UK where it was the first moment because I'd had lots of good experiences of successful projects first moment where we got into real difficulty and there was three parties involved the importer the lender and us and everybody started blaming everybody and and it the the project got into a really bad state it was the first time I'd seen a crisis project and and I think you know I it sticks in my mind because I think what you had to do what we had to do was be calm and we had to work it through and we had to stand our ground against difficult pressure. So that sticks in my mind. And ultimately, the project was put on hold for a while, and then it came back on and we successfully delivered it. So that's probably the first moment where I realized what a difficult project was like.
Speaker #0
So we've talked about how you came to be Chief SaaS Transformation Officer and Head of Specialized Finance Strategy at SBS. But can you tell us what is it that you do exactly?
Speaker #1
Okay, that's a difficult question. My son asked me what I did recently. He's a very, very smart science brain guy, completely opposite to me. And he asked me what I did. And when I explained to him just my regular day, he said, that's not a proper job, dad. He thought it was crazy. But what do I do? In both of those places, I think my main objective and goal when I turn up every day is to lead people, is to give people direction, to create the space and the environment for the the people around me to be successful and to do their jobs properly so that's the key thing for me and particularly in the latter stages of my career that's been a really important thing to me is leading people and and allowing them to do their jobs so I'm helping people to make decisions I'm mentoring people I'm dealing with you know those types of things but I'm also in both of those places I'm I'm building and executing on strategy so if you look at the SaaS transformation I was taking the experience that I'd had inside of my previous organization and in specialized finance as being kind of early SaaS adopters and taking that and trying to define what that looked like for the whole organization, accepting that the organization was in various stages of maturity and then trying to build a strategy that we could all be consistent around. So that's the strategy. And then on the specialized finance side, a bit of a similar thing, really, because we've adapted our strategy as we've gone on, as we've grown. geographically and we've brought new product and it's about ensuring that you have a good direction for that a good strategy and then you're able to execute on it and then and then a lot of what i'm doing is as i say with the rest of the team is helping to execute on that so i think that's what i do but i seem to do lots of powerpoints and and words documents and and all the usual stuff and lots of talking now let's tackle some of the big ideas floating
Speaker #0
around about specialised finance, I will throw out some common assumptions about specialised finance and you tell me myth or reality. Okay. And why. Okay. First one, specialised finance is just traditional lending with a fancy name.
Speaker #1
Myth, definitely myth. The reason for that is that a lot of types of lending, let's take just general consumer lending, personal loans, you're not lending against an asset. or you may be but it's not the asset is not right at the front whereas specialized finance is really about lending against an asset that's what financing is and that means it's very different because the asset becomes very important and that's about understanding that asset in detail And then even tracking that asset, making sure that it's not deteriorating in value. So that makes it quite different. But fundamentally, it's the same. Okay.
Speaker #0
FinTechs are disrupting the space, but banks will always dominate.
Speaker #1
Oh, that's a good one. I think I'm going to call it myth. And the reason I'm going to call it myth is because the banks will always play a role. In my opinion, they have some distinct advantages around scale. And, you know. safety when we give our money to people we want it to be safe i think um i think i would also say the fintechs are um going to continue to play a huge role and probably grow and will take a portion of the wallet that the banks already have so the banks will potentially continue to dominate but fintechs may may take a bigger portion of the wallet ai and automation will make specialized finance irrelevant myth Definitely. And the reason behind my answer is, I think, as with any other business, really, let alone lending or finance or banking, people will leverage AI and automation to give a better customer journey, customer experience, and also to do things more efficiently. So the good lenders in this case, I think, will do that. So I don't think it will remove the need for... Specialized finance, it will enhance it potentially.
Speaker #0
Oof. SaaS platforms can never fully replace traditional financial services in specialized finance.
Speaker #1
Can you guess my answer?
Speaker #0
Miss.
Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You've heard me talk about this before. It's a question of time for me. What we need to be thinking about is, you know, how quickly it can be adopted. And how we move beyond SaaS, how we start to go beyond SaaS, because that's the big topic for me, is how AI is changing even the need for SaaS. But I think, you know, I personally feel the work that we're doing right now with SaaS becomes table stakes. You know, SaaS, cloud, AI becomes table stakes. And by that, I mean, without it, you won't survive. So I think the things that we're doing importantly now around our transformation are going to set us for the future in terms of being more agile. do things quickly with data at the heart of it and those things can become essential.
Speaker #0
Last one, a specialised finance is only relevant for large enterprises, not SMEs or startups.
Speaker #1
That's a myth, definitely. And we've already proved that. If you look at our customer base, we deal with large entities like tier one banks and large global manufacturer captives where we're working with them in multiple countries. And we also deal with small startups where we're helping them to grow their business because they've just got to the point where they need a system to manage it so and both of those have their their places they both have their their niches in the market and they're both going to be relevant in that space for a long time to come unless something fundamental changes that we don't know about in this moment in time okay so that would be a full myth myth across the board apart from one where it was kind of in the middle yes so now that we have busted
Speaker #0
a few myths. Let's look ahead. The industry is changing fast. So which trends excite you the most and which ones worry you?
Speaker #1
An obvious answer is AI. The answer to both of those questions is AI. And I think as simple as I think the organizations that embrace AI in the right way to both deliver value for themselves in managing their business and deliver value for their customers are going to succeed and the ones who ignore it. there's a good chance they're going to struggle.
Speaker #0
If you could fast track one change in financial services, what would it be?
Speaker #1
Oh, this is predictable for me as well. Tier one banks adopting public cloud. Fast track that one, please. That would help us.
Speaker #0
Why?
Speaker #1
Because then they would be more open to, you know, the types of products that are in our strategy, which is, you know, SaaS cloud based products.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
Still, we have these types of conversations with people where they say, Hey. Our policy is private cloud or on-premise. And then you have these difficult conversations about how you're trying to sell the benefits, which are great conversations, but it is an obstacle to some of the sales processes we're involved in.
Speaker #0
Speaking of change, let's put you in the driver's seat. Imagine you are advising a mid-sized financial institution that still relies on legacy systems for a specialized finance. They're hesitant about... moving to SAS because they fear losing control, regulatory challenges, and high transition costs, what would you do?
Speaker #1
probably answer this one because it's been what i've been doing for many years now but the first thing you try to convince them of is to um is focus on their core competencies um and and trust an external partner to do the difficult job of running the i.t and everything that goes around they talked about compliance or regulatory compliance managing data doing all those things i encourage them to trust somebody else to do that whose core competency is And you can do that through a discussion around service levels, because often what happens with a bank and a financial institution is they, when they're running the system in-house, you get talking to them. And when they're very honest, they talk about the poor service level they get internally. So we can provide a good service level to them because we can sign up to them. If we get it wrong, we're in trouble, whereas they got less leverage internally. So that's the first thing I would do is try and convince them that. And then I think the second thing I would try and convince them to do is just buy SBS. SBS is products, I mean, not SBS. Very different.
Speaker #0
How would you convince them SaaS is the right move?
Speaker #1
I think in simple terms, you convince them by explaining to them and giving evidence as well, obviously, that SaaS is both in terms of implementation and run. is cheaper quicker and less risky than doing it on premise and again you have to convince them that you have the skills and capability to make it that way but if you can convince them of that it's a no-brainer and then the other part of it is the convince them again by evidence that they will they will get a piece of software that evolves rather than something that they have to upgrade every six months 12 months or in the future so they get evergreen software so they they take advantage of the evolutions without having to go through costly time-consuming disruptive projects and what's the first step in the transition by sbs by sbs no it's on a serious note it's um it's really have a mindset change it goes back to that original point is uh you know tier one banks and others that are used to they have their own i.t department they used to running things themselves they used to have an IT vendor delivering software on a licensed basis on premise on their side it's that mindset change to trust the software vendor partner get into a strategic partnership get a decent contract in place so that we take that burden and they trust us to do it I think that's the first step and what's the biggest mistake they could make in the process um in relation to buying a SaaS product you mean yeah oh I think that's to try to to go down the traditional route of saying, this is what I want, this is what I need, and try to adapt the software. I mean, the mentality has to be the software, you adapt your processes around the software, don't change it. So again, coming back to my original point, you can then implement fast with a decent cost and reduce your risk.
Speaker #0
Before we wrap up, let's do some quick takes, fast answers, gut reactions to enjoy. So finish my sentences. The biggest misconception about SaaS transformation is?
Speaker #1
I think it's that it's solely a technology, technical transformation. And by that, I mean that SaaS transformation touches the whole organization. It's an organization-wide thing. So firstly, it's a mindset and culture thing. It affects the way that you design and build your products. It affects the way you market and sell them. It affects the way you then deliver them from an implementation perspective and the way that you run them and the way you support your customers so definitely it being a just a technical thing is misconception one thing i wish more people understood about specialized finances uh that most of us will benefit from it in our lifetimes when we buy a car or we buy a big piece of furniture or any big item we'll will probably unless we're really rich and you don't need finance we will use specialised finance so the example is I walk into a car leadership and I like my fancy new car and then I can't really afford to pay for it in cash so one of the ways you would deal with it is you'll get a loan at the point of sale that's specialised finance.
Speaker #0
One piece of financial advice I wish more people followed is
Speaker #1
I'm going to use an example in my space again. Never pay cash for a new car. They're a fantastic way, financial, and I'm selling for my customers now, they're fantastic financial products, leasing and in the UK PCP. personal contract purchase where you can get a new car with a much lower payment and you don't have to pay for the depreciation of the asset. I would never advise anyone to buy a new car.
Speaker #0
Okay,
Speaker #1
good to hear. With cash.
Speaker #0
The best carrier advice I've ever received was?
Speaker #1
I think it's probably to remain calm in adversity and to stick to your principles. I think that it's really sometimes under pressure in business. It's really easy to be pushed in a direction away from your principles. And then the calmness thing, we all need to be calm in difficult circumstances. And I was told that by the guy I mentioned earlier. He was my original mentor.
Speaker #0
If I weren't in specialized finance, I would be doing?
Speaker #1
Good question. I think I would probably be doing something that involved bikes, I think.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
Do you ride bikes?
Speaker #1
I ride bikes, yeah. I'm not sure I could make any money out of bikes, but yeah, I'd like to make some money out of bikes if I could.
Speaker #0
Do you do races?
Speaker #1
Some, yeah, some. I probably, the bikes for me is a money drain, not a money maker.
Speaker #0
One last question to wrap up the episode. I'm asking you that question since you are a leader. What do you think leaders truly want?
Speaker #1
I alluded to it earlier, I think, is I think as a leader, what I want is I want all the people who I'm leading to be successful. And that's because I want them to be successful. But there's a selfish thing about that as well as if all the people around you are succeeding, then you're going to succeed as well as an organization. So I think success of others around you and I think I think a good leader is thinking about the people that are leading and their success.
Speaker #0
To be fair, that's not the last question. I have one last. Andrew Steadman is my next guest. So if you were in my shoes, what's the one question you would ask him?
Speaker #1
Yeah, OK, that's a good one. Andrew, sorry about this question. Give me a second to think. How satisfied is Andrew going to be in two years time about the difference he's making in terms of product management? Because Andrew, I believe, is a very good product strategy and product management guy. And I'd like to know how confident he is. that in two years time he's going to look back and say wow that was a success i said two years on purpose i didn't want to say five years and give him too much time thank you james for your time and for being with us thank you caroline it was a pleasure

Description

Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Welcome to What Leaders Want, the podcast series that features leaders in the finance industry. Today, we'll have a discussion with James Powell, who is Chief SaaS Transformation Officer and Head of Specialized Finance Strategy at SBS. And we are going to get to know both the person and benefit from his industry expertise. Hi James, thanks for being with us and sharing your time.
Speaker #1
Hello Caroline, glad to be here.
Speaker #0
So before we dive in, how would you present yourself at a dinner party and what you do?
Speaker #1
How would I present myself? It's James, that's my name. I think your personality is the best way to present yourself. So you present yourself with the way that you behave at that dinner party and the things you say. And what would I do? I know it's pretty obvious, but a dinner party should be fun, whether it's a formal one or informal one. So I think I like to tell stories, I like to... to keep it light. And I also like to listen to stories. Some people might not know me for listening, but I like to listen to stories. And maybe I even use people some stories in the future, particularly if they're funny. So storytelling.
Speaker #0
I've interviewed a lot of C-levels, and I've noticed that they all have a defining trait, kind of superpower that shaped their journey. Could be empathy, could be determination, etc. Would you say humor is your secret weapon?
Speaker #1
I do like to use it. I think I like to use it to... in serious situations and in less serious situations. So maybe you've given me a leading question there. I think it's more about being able to relate to people. So you mentioned empathy, I think, understanding other people's feelings and how they're feeling. And then you can use your humor in the right circumstances. Every now and then I get it wrong. But yeah, maybe you're right. Maybe you're right.
Speaker #0
How do you leverage humor in your professional life? And do you have an example where you used humor in a professional meeting and that went well?
Speaker #1
That's a really good question. So I think you can use humour in the beginning of meetings to kind of create some rapport. The icebreaker is the classic one always. But I think within a meeting, you can use it sometimes. As long as you're not overusing it, you can use it to break difficult situations. And so sometimes rooms get tense in a business environment. And yeah, humour just can break that down. Giving examples, that's a really difficult one, Caroline, and I'm not sure I can give you a good example right now. Maybe we'll come back to that later. Yeah. Okay,
Speaker #0
let's do that. I always like to hear how people find their way into this world. So was there a moment early in your career where you thought, wow, this is exactly where I'm meant to be? Or, oh gosh, what have I gotten myself into?
Speaker #1
I think to answer the first question, I realized quite soon. coming into software and it you don't think it's a people thing naturally you think it's a technical thing and i think i realized really soon in the roles that i came into i was always looking after customers i was engaging in projects i was involved with people and i realized it was a people relationship based business really quickly so i i was comfortable with that and i that was the the answer the first part of your question the second part i think is is directly related is that you when when you're younger in your career the first time you get into customer interaction where it's difficult you have tough conversations that's the moment where you go what have I got myself into um but obviously that becomes something that you understand is natural and then you just you know you get used to it but yeah certainly I you know I've really enjoyed my career because of the people nature of it it's fantastic difficult conversations come by but they
Speaker #0
get outweighed by all the good the good um interpersonal relationship stuff you have was there a particular moment or a challenge that shaped your career
Speaker #1
I don't think so. I mean, I would say that I think you get shaped by all of your experiences through your career, good or bad. And we've all had good and bad situations. So I don't think that I would point to any one situation. I've had a lot of good scenarios. I've had a lot of big successes that I'm really proud of. I've also had a lot of failures that you like to learn from. So I think it's more of an evolution rather than a single point that shapes you. I think you get shaped constantly.
Speaker #0
OK, so no turning point.
Speaker #1
No real turning point. I mean, one potential milestone for me was back in the, I'm showing my age now, but back in the late 1990s, I took the opportunity to go and work in Canada for the organisation I was working for, but a complete change of role. And it was a very different thing for me. That was a big thing for me in terms of the guy who got me to go there became my first mentor. And secondly, also got me the buzz about doing business internationally. experience in different cultures and different ways of doing business so I think that was probably the first key milestone for me in the late
Speaker #0
1990s. Okay I've seen that you used to be a sales do you remember the first major deal you were proud of?
Speaker #1
Oh yeah I mean I could point to quite a few hopefully I've been successful with sales over the years but I think the main one for me and it still resonates nowadays and it was in the mid-2000s ish we did a really big deal with Lombard there was actually a small deal when we did it but we knew that it had potential to be huge and i led the whole deal i won't bore you with the detail but um it became our biggest they became our biggest customer within two years the the way that we did the deal with them and the business that we were supporting for them it disrupted the whole market so it felt fantastic and and they they remain the biggest customer revenue wise in the specialized finance business so i'm i'm particularly proud of that and we just renewed with them and we've just moved them to the sas version 7 as well so really proud of that one did you have an oh no moment where something almost went off the rails um yeah again you know i'm going to go back to my project management days it wasn't really project management because i was working on big projects and in the early days of my career um doing some project management business analysis and i do remember a circumstance with a uk car you car importer into the UK where it was the first moment because I'd had lots of good experiences of successful projects first moment where we got into real difficulty and there was three parties involved the importer the lender and us and everybody started blaming everybody and and it the the project got into a really bad state it was the first time I'd seen a crisis project and and I think you know I it sticks in my mind because I think what you had to do what we had to do was be calm and we had to work it through and we had to stand our ground against difficult pressure. So that sticks in my mind. And ultimately, the project was put on hold for a while, and then it came back on and we successfully delivered it. So that's probably the first moment where I realized what a difficult project was like.
Speaker #0
So we've talked about how you came to be Chief SaaS Transformation Officer and Head of Specialized Finance Strategy at SBS. But can you tell us what is it that you do exactly?
Speaker #1
Okay, that's a difficult question. My son asked me what I did recently. He's a very, very smart science brain guy, completely opposite to me. And he asked me what I did. And when I explained to him just my regular day, he said, that's not a proper job, dad. He thought it was crazy. But what do I do? In both of those places, I think my main objective and goal when I turn up every day is to lead people, is to give people direction, to create the space and the environment for the the people around me to be successful and to do their jobs properly so that's the key thing for me and particularly in the latter stages of my career that's been a really important thing to me is leading people and and allowing them to do their jobs so I'm helping people to make decisions I'm mentoring people I'm dealing with you know those types of things but I'm also in both of those places I'm I'm building and executing on strategy so if you look at the SaaS transformation I was taking the experience that I'd had inside of my previous organization and in specialized finance as being kind of early SaaS adopters and taking that and trying to define what that looked like for the whole organization, accepting that the organization was in various stages of maturity and then trying to build a strategy that we could all be consistent around. So that's the strategy. And then on the specialized finance side, a bit of a similar thing, really, because we've adapted our strategy as we've gone on, as we've grown. geographically and we've brought new product and it's about ensuring that you have a good direction for that a good strategy and then you're able to execute on it and then and then a lot of what i'm doing is as i say with the rest of the team is helping to execute on that so i think that's what i do but i seem to do lots of powerpoints and and words documents and and all the usual stuff and lots of talking now let's tackle some of the big ideas floating
Speaker #0
around about specialised finance, I will throw out some common assumptions about specialised finance and you tell me myth or reality. Okay. And why. Okay. First one, specialised finance is just traditional lending with a fancy name.
Speaker #1
Myth, definitely myth. The reason for that is that a lot of types of lending, let's take just general consumer lending, personal loans, you're not lending against an asset. or you may be but it's not the asset is not right at the front whereas specialized finance is really about lending against an asset that's what financing is and that means it's very different because the asset becomes very important and that's about understanding that asset in detail And then even tracking that asset, making sure that it's not deteriorating in value. So that makes it quite different. But fundamentally, it's the same. Okay.
Speaker #0
FinTechs are disrupting the space, but banks will always dominate.
Speaker #1
Oh, that's a good one. I think I'm going to call it myth. And the reason I'm going to call it myth is because the banks will always play a role. In my opinion, they have some distinct advantages around scale. And, you know. safety when we give our money to people we want it to be safe i think um i think i would also say the fintechs are um going to continue to play a huge role and probably grow and will take a portion of the wallet that the banks already have so the banks will potentially continue to dominate but fintechs may may take a bigger portion of the wallet ai and automation will make specialized finance irrelevant myth Definitely. And the reason behind my answer is, I think, as with any other business, really, let alone lending or finance or banking, people will leverage AI and automation to give a better customer journey, customer experience, and also to do things more efficiently. So the good lenders in this case, I think, will do that. So I don't think it will remove the need for... Specialized finance, it will enhance it potentially.
Speaker #0
Oof. SaaS platforms can never fully replace traditional financial services in specialized finance.
Speaker #1
Can you guess my answer?
Speaker #0
Miss.
Speaker #1
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. You've heard me talk about this before. It's a question of time for me. What we need to be thinking about is, you know, how quickly it can be adopted. And how we move beyond SaaS, how we start to go beyond SaaS, because that's the big topic for me, is how AI is changing even the need for SaaS. But I think, you know, I personally feel the work that we're doing right now with SaaS becomes table stakes. You know, SaaS, cloud, AI becomes table stakes. And by that, I mean, without it, you won't survive. So I think the things that we're doing importantly now around our transformation are going to set us for the future in terms of being more agile. do things quickly with data at the heart of it and those things can become essential.
Speaker #0
Last one, a specialised finance is only relevant for large enterprises, not SMEs or startups.
Speaker #1
That's a myth, definitely. And we've already proved that. If you look at our customer base, we deal with large entities like tier one banks and large global manufacturer captives where we're working with them in multiple countries. And we also deal with small startups where we're helping them to grow their business because they've just got to the point where they need a system to manage it so and both of those have their their places they both have their their niches in the market and they're both going to be relevant in that space for a long time to come unless something fundamental changes that we don't know about in this moment in time okay so that would be a full myth myth across the board apart from one where it was kind of in the middle yes so now that we have busted
Speaker #0
a few myths. Let's look ahead. The industry is changing fast. So which trends excite you the most and which ones worry you?
Speaker #1
An obvious answer is AI. The answer to both of those questions is AI. And I think as simple as I think the organizations that embrace AI in the right way to both deliver value for themselves in managing their business and deliver value for their customers are going to succeed and the ones who ignore it. there's a good chance they're going to struggle.
Speaker #0
If you could fast track one change in financial services, what would it be?
Speaker #1
Oh, this is predictable for me as well. Tier one banks adopting public cloud. Fast track that one, please. That would help us.
Speaker #0
Why?
Speaker #1
Because then they would be more open to, you know, the types of products that are in our strategy, which is, you know, SaaS cloud based products.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
Still, we have these types of conversations with people where they say, Hey. Our policy is private cloud or on-premise. And then you have these difficult conversations about how you're trying to sell the benefits, which are great conversations, but it is an obstacle to some of the sales processes we're involved in.
Speaker #0
Speaking of change, let's put you in the driver's seat. Imagine you are advising a mid-sized financial institution that still relies on legacy systems for a specialized finance. They're hesitant about... moving to SAS because they fear losing control, regulatory challenges, and high transition costs, what would you do?
Speaker #1
probably answer this one because it's been what i've been doing for many years now but the first thing you try to convince them of is to um is focus on their core competencies um and and trust an external partner to do the difficult job of running the i.t and everything that goes around they talked about compliance or regulatory compliance managing data doing all those things i encourage them to trust somebody else to do that whose core competency is And you can do that through a discussion around service levels, because often what happens with a bank and a financial institution is they, when they're running the system in-house, you get talking to them. And when they're very honest, they talk about the poor service level they get internally. So we can provide a good service level to them because we can sign up to them. If we get it wrong, we're in trouble, whereas they got less leverage internally. So that's the first thing I would do is try and convince them that. And then I think the second thing I would try and convince them to do is just buy SBS. SBS is products, I mean, not SBS. Very different.
Speaker #0
How would you convince them SaaS is the right move?
Speaker #1
I think in simple terms, you convince them by explaining to them and giving evidence as well, obviously, that SaaS is both in terms of implementation and run. is cheaper quicker and less risky than doing it on premise and again you have to convince them that you have the skills and capability to make it that way but if you can convince them of that it's a no-brainer and then the other part of it is the convince them again by evidence that they will they will get a piece of software that evolves rather than something that they have to upgrade every six months 12 months or in the future so they get evergreen software so they they take advantage of the evolutions without having to go through costly time-consuming disruptive projects and what's the first step in the transition by sbs by sbs no it's on a serious note it's um it's really have a mindset change it goes back to that original point is uh you know tier one banks and others that are used to they have their own i.t department they used to running things themselves they used to have an IT vendor delivering software on a licensed basis on premise on their side it's that mindset change to trust the software vendor partner get into a strategic partnership get a decent contract in place so that we take that burden and they trust us to do it I think that's the first step and what's the biggest mistake they could make in the process um in relation to buying a SaaS product you mean yeah oh I think that's to try to to go down the traditional route of saying, this is what I want, this is what I need, and try to adapt the software. I mean, the mentality has to be the software, you adapt your processes around the software, don't change it. So again, coming back to my original point, you can then implement fast with a decent cost and reduce your risk.
Speaker #0
Before we wrap up, let's do some quick takes, fast answers, gut reactions to enjoy. So finish my sentences. The biggest misconception about SaaS transformation is?
Speaker #1
I think it's that it's solely a technology, technical transformation. And by that, I mean that SaaS transformation touches the whole organization. It's an organization-wide thing. So firstly, it's a mindset and culture thing. It affects the way that you design and build your products. It affects the way you market and sell them. It affects the way you then deliver them from an implementation perspective and the way that you run them and the way you support your customers so definitely it being a just a technical thing is misconception one thing i wish more people understood about specialized finances uh that most of us will benefit from it in our lifetimes when we buy a car or we buy a big piece of furniture or any big item we'll will probably unless we're really rich and you don't need finance we will use specialised finance so the example is I walk into a car leadership and I like my fancy new car and then I can't really afford to pay for it in cash so one of the ways you would deal with it is you'll get a loan at the point of sale that's specialised finance.
Speaker #0
One piece of financial advice I wish more people followed is
Speaker #1
I'm going to use an example in my space again. Never pay cash for a new car. They're a fantastic way, financial, and I'm selling for my customers now, they're fantastic financial products, leasing and in the UK PCP. personal contract purchase where you can get a new car with a much lower payment and you don't have to pay for the depreciation of the asset. I would never advise anyone to buy a new car.
Speaker #0
Okay,
Speaker #1
good to hear. With cash.
Speaker #0
The best carrier advice I've ever received was?
Speaker #1
I think it's probably to remain calm in adversity and to stick to your principles. I think that it's really sometimes under pressure in business. It's really easy to be pushed in a direction away from your principles. And then the calmness thing, we all need to be calm in difficult circumstances. And I was told that by the guy I mentioned earlier. He was my original mentor.
Speaker #0
If I weren't in specialized finance, I would be doing?
Speaker #1
Good question. I think I would probably be doing something that involved bikes, I think.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
Do you ride bikes?
Speaker #1
I ride bikes, yeah. I'm not sure I could make any money out of bikes, but yeah, I'd like to make some money out of bikes if I could.
Speaker #0
Do you do races?
Speaker #1
Some, yeah, some. I probably, the bikes for me is a money drain, not a money maker.
Speaker #0
One last question to wrap up the episode. I'm asking you that question since you are a leader. What do you think leaders truly want?
Speaker #1
I alluded to it earlier, I think, is I think as a leader, what I want is I want all the people who I'm leading to be successful. And that's because I want them to be successful. But there's a selfish thing about that as well as if all the people around you are succeeding, then you're going to succeed as well as an organization. So I think success of others around you and I think I think a good leader is thinking about the people that are leading and their success.
Speaker #0
To be fair, that's not the last question. I have one last. Andrew Steadman is my next guest. So if you were in my shoes, what's the one question you would ask him?
Speaker #1
Yeah, OK, that's a good one. Andrew, sorry about this question. Give me a second to think. How satisfied is Andrew going to be in two years time about the difference he's making in terms of product management? Because Andrew, I believe, is a very good product strategy and product management guy. And I'd like to know how confident he is. that in two years time he's going to look back and say wow that was a success i said two years on purpose i didn't want to say five years and give him too much time thank you james for your time and for being with us thank you caroline it was a pleasure

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