Christina Bouglass on Reimagining Purpose after Burnout | Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

Description

Christina Bouglass is originally from the UK and raised in Switzerland. She began her marketing career at Procter & Gamble in Geneva and spent 20 years as a marketing executive shaping some of the world’s most iconic beauty brands, working with celebrities and fashion houses. She held global, regional, and local roles at P&G, Coty, and The Wella Company, spanning every category of the beauty industry.

Then, in Christina's own words:

"After a toxic private equity takeover, the absence of values and purpose my work led to burnout — and to a complete re-evaluation of my life and what success meant to me."

As I stepped away from the corporate world and embarked on an inner transformation, I realised that marketing has alot to answer for: marketing doesn’t just sell products. It manipulates us, fuels endless growth, and reinforces a single-minded picture of success.

I took all my industry experience — and my frustration with the way marketing has been done — retrained in sustainable marketing - and reimagined a better way forward. A way for brands not just to sell more, but to serve more. To contribute to solving the world’s biggest challenges rather than accelerating them."

From this vision, Christina created her 4B Brand Model:

⭐ Think BIG – brands tackle the world’s biggest challenges and lead the way for others
⭐ Be BOLD – brands challenge the status quo of their industry
⭐ Act BRAVE – brands stand up and live by what they believe in
⭐ Become BELOVED – brands build communities that share their values

Today, she helps scale-up founders and leaders at the growth stage reimagine their brands through this lens — building brands that create a positive impact for people, planet, and profit. She also teaches marketing and purpose-led brands at the Haute École de Gestion (HEG) in Geneva as part of their International Bachelor program, sharing this vision with the next generation of marketers.

You can contact Christina and subscribe to her newsletter Brands For A New World here:

https://www.thebutterflymovements.com

If you'd like to contact Ruth and find out more about coaching you can do that here:

https://yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
What happens when the career you love turns toxic and your sense of purpose goes missing? I'm Ruth Kearns-Wollmann and this is your path to success, created to inspire, encourage and equip you on your leadership journey. Today's guest is Christina Bouglass, a brand builder and marketeer who spent 20 years... at Procter & Gamble, Coty and the Weller Company, shaping iconic beauty brands. Now she's passionate about supporting purpose-led brands to create positive impact for people, planet and profit, as well as teaching the next generation of marketers. In this episode, Christina shares how she faced and navigated burnout and how she reimagined purpose for herself and for marketing through her 4B model: Think Big, Be Bold. Act Brave and Become Beloved. A braver, kinder way to do marketing with real impact. So I'm excited to be here today with Christina Bouglass in person in your kitchen. How great is that?
Speaker #1
Hi Ruth, it's so lovely to see you again.
Speaker #0
Yeah, and we've known each other a long time. We met when we were working at P&G about 20 years ago in the same business unit, but we've only really reconnected. Recently, and honestly, I'm loving this period of my life where I'm daring to reach out and reconnect with people who I share a passion with. And I know that you are very passionate about brand purpose, but also personal purpose. And we learned that at P&G. at the beginning didn't we?
Speaker #1
Absolutely yeah I mean yes I remember my P&G well my many P&G days with much fondness it's um I mean it's an incredible marketing school for a start right I was in marketing my entire career yeah it's an incredible company I mean it's taught me everything that I know to be honest including purpose of course right because it's the core of what a brand stands for and what it's about.
Speaker #0
Yes yeah absolutely. How did you experience your early days in P&G?
Speaker #1
Yeah, so I mean I started really young, right? Like P&G recruits really young, as we all know, right? So straight out of uni, super eager and excited about building a career. I mean, so the experience was amazing and challenging at the same time, right? Because I think we're constantly pulled upwards when you're in an environment like P&G. We're given so many opportunities to learn, to train. And as you say, everybody is so smart. So it's this environment in which, you know, you kind of really have to thrive to survive. let's put it that way yeah so I mean I really loved those years but your career had to be the center of it right I think to really do well you had to really put your career ahead of anything else which you know when you're straight out of uni is absolutely fine and I was more than happy to do that it's also a really tough environment right so you have to learn to respect and abide by kind of the ways of doing things let's say very strong culture extremely strong culture many processes. that need to be followed. And you have to do things by the book and by the rules. And, you know, one thing that I struggled with a little bit, I'd say at the beginning was the fact that P&G is a very data-driven company. Every decision is made based on data. And I, you know, looking back, realized that I was alway very much focused on intuition and more kind of creativity and all that kind of stuff. And so that was one thing that I had to quickly learn, right? To kind of learn how to manage data, understand data. use data in the kind of daily decision making.
Speaker #0
And how aware were you in those early days of the tension between your natural way of doing things and this very data-driven way of doing things?
Speaker #1
I don't think I was aware, to be honest. I think there's a lot of looking back and kind of realising retrospectively. At the time, I think I felt a bit inadequate in those areas. So there were things I would love, right? The more kind of creative sides when we were like working with agencies and working on ads and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, everything that was more kind of analytical. Again, as I said, I had to learn quickly, right? I had a really, really difficult start because I had a boss that didn't really help me understand what was needed. I didn't really feel like I had the coaching that I needed at the beginning, let's say, and who basically told me that I wouldn't progress in the company. Those were her parting words to me after a few months, which was tough, right? Really tough to hear. But then, you know, after that, I had an amazing boss who, you know, we had a really frank conversation. and I said it was difficult. I've struggled with this. And he basically helped me and coached me. And, you know, looking back, as I said, I realized I had to fit a lot into boxes, but with the right coaching, you know, I was then able to thrive, right. And to kind of combine, you know, what I'd learned, right. With something that came much more naturally to me. And that really helped me then have this amazing career at Procter & Gamble.
Speaker #0
It's amazing, isn't it? When we have people who recognize what we're really good at and can help us with the things where we may be We're never going to be the most brilliant, but we need the basics in that to thrive.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. You know, I remember it just makes me think, I remember when I first started, we had to do every year our annual reviews, right? And when I first started, we had to write out our three strengths and our three weaknesses, they were called. And after a few years, P&G changed that to your three strengths and one opportunity. Exactly. But, you know, it's just it's that whole mindset shift of actually, you know, we're all different. And it's a question of building on our strengths and then just not letting those opportunities bring us down versus kind of, oh, my gosh, you have to go and work on all these weaknesses. Right. It's a completely different mindset. And that was the difference I felt between that first boss and the second boss as well.
Speaker #0
I think you told me that there was a boss who said something that. really made you realise what it was you brought to the party?
Speaker #1
Yeah so it was so after in P&G we travel a lot right and we have the opportunity to move assignments and stuff and my second assignment I was actually working in Paris and I remember my boss when he announced that I was going to move and come back to Geneva and I was getting promoted which was a big deal right obviously in P&G. I remember him saying that it was the first time ever that he'd had a manager work for him that he could simply look at in a meeting. and know if something was right for the brand or not right and and I at the time I didn't really make much of it but looking back I realized he really saw that I could feel right I could I could feel and sense what was right for for the brands that I was working on and I didn't necessarily need to go and analyze everything so
Speaker #0
yeah so I think it was a compliment at the time anyway hopefully yes a compliment and maybe also that you need to know how to transmit that to the agency afterwards don't you yeah exactly Well, how did you end up choosing marketing and P&G in the first place?
Speaker #1
So I'm originally English, you can probably hear, even though I grew up in Switzerland. And I went to university in the UK, which was also fabulous in terms of experience. And I was really lucky because the university, I was studying industrial economics, but the university had a business school. And in our final year, we were allowed to choose some options in that business school. And so marketing at the time wasn't a discipline, right? You couldn't just go and study marketing. But I studied, I chose an option called consumer behavior and another option called advertising and I was absolutely fascinated by the kind of consumer behavior side and the kind of psychology behind like shopper behavior and all that kind of thing and the impact that brands could have on us right and then on the advertising I remember making we we were asked to go and make this ad and I just thought this was the best thing in the world right I remember we made a Werther's original ad and we made it more modern okay and we had so much fun and that that I was like I want to work in marketing If that's what we do in marketing, I want to go work in marketing. And P&G kind of came naturally because, I mean, it was just seen as the pinnacle of marketing school, right? So I applied. Well, I applied back in Geneva because that was where my parents were and I was living. And I was just lucky enough to basically get a job and start straight away.
Speaker #0
And I know that you've told me that you were very driven as a child. You wanted to do well.
Speaker #1
Yeah, so I think...
Speaker #0
So going for the best came naturally to you?
Speaker #1
Going for the best definitely came naturally. I think, you know, my childhood, I was always academically kind of at ease, let's say, and, you know, always the best in my class and always having to get the best grade. And, you know, that was, it was that or nothing, basically, in my mind, yeah.
Speaker #0
I'm always fascinated by how our strengths and our talents, you know, show up in our lives very early on. You can probably see it in your kids, right? How did your creative side come out when you were a child or younger?
Speaker #1
Yeah, and you're absolutely right. So for me, I remember when I was younger, I loved writing. I used to have this book, I used to write poems, I used to love writing stories. And it's something, by the way, that I had completely forgotten, right? Yes. And I also remember, you know, when we had to do like shows at school or, you know, put on theatre pieces or whatever. I loved it. I loved being on stage. I loved being creative. I think those are really... aspects that started shining through quite early but that you quickly forget as you grow up yes you do Yeah.
Speaker #0
But I think, and we'll come back to this later, you've rediscovered the joy of marketing and creativity.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. Yes. And writing, by the way, I would love to. So I started writing a book.
Speaker #0
Oh, wow.
Speaker #1
I actually did a book proposal and then it's been on pause for a little bit, but I definitely still have in my heart the idea of wanting to write a book. It's something that's re-come up since I've remembered. Yeah.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Fantastic. So let's come back to your career a bit more chronologically. You're out of university, you're in P&G. Often in our 20s and our 30s, we are really about climbing the ladder, about establishing ourselves in our career and in life. How was that period of your life for you?
Speaker #1
Yeah, climbing the ladder. That's a good way to, that's exactly a good way. Yeah, I mean, my 20s were all about my career, that's for sure. I mean, and I loved, I loved my job, right? Let's be honest. I mean, we had so many opportunities in P&G. I was working on amazing brands. We have, as we said, so many smart people around us, the opportunity to travel, to keep training and learning. My 20s were definitely really, really career focused. I think like many of us, you know, early 30s, I got married and then I had two kids in my 30s. And thank goodness I was a bit more established in my career by that point. It's, I mean, you have to juggle so much, right, in your 30s. I think it's, I mean, it sounds a bit sexist, but especially as a woman, right? You have to juggle being a mum and still wanting to progress in your career. And it's not always easy to make the right choices about what's important to you. So, you know, I mean, I think I did pretty well, hopefully, with two kids that seemed pretty okay and balanced. And, you know, my career continued to go well in my 30s. But it was a constant juggle and there was constantly a feeling of guilt of either not being good enough at work or not being good enough at home. Constantly. And I remember when I went back after my daughter, I'd had... quite a difficult pregnancy with my daughter a lot of medical scares and all that kind of stuff and when I went back I it was it was really really difficult to leave her with other people and the only way I felt that I could find a little bit more balance was by trying to have an extra day with my kids that's the only solution I could imagine to be honest at the time right so I I asked for an 80% which I don't think had ever ever happened in marketing and P&G before they were like what and but you know what they gave it to me they gave me the 80 percent and I had a few years where I was working I had one extra day with the kids at home which as everyone says you know you basically get paid 80 percent and do 100 of the work in four days it's absolutely true but that day where I was officially off was so important to me to know that I was trying to create a little bit more balance in my life between work and children that I was absolutely fine doing that basically it's
Speaker #0
an absolutely massive topic as you know That for good and not so good reasons, women feel so much pressure around the childcare, around being there, around being a mum while working and feeling pressure from both sides. And it's really hard. It's really hard. And yeah, kudos to you for that, for being also trailblazing for other people to be able to say, that's how I create a boundary for myself.
Speaker #1
Yeah. absolutely yeah and and to have that day off you have to create massive boundaries right like I'm not going to take any meetings I'm not going to look at my emails and so Monday mornings were a bit of a stress because you had everything to catch up on Friday absolutely but again you you have to create your own boundaries no one else is going to do it for you right yeah
Speaker #0
I want to come to you know what what ended up being a pivot almost literally on your 40th birthday but
Speaker #1
you know you you did make a massive pivot a few years ago when did things start to come to a head yes so yeah exactly so basically in 2020 so it was the year that the whole world lived through a pivot right with uh with covid and with lockdown and as i was saying to you it was the first day of lockdown was literally the day of my 40th birthday so i kind of woke up to this world where we didn't know what was happening right in the world we had no idea what how long it was going to last for we just it was completely new world basically and It was a very weird sensation on that day, I remember. So that was kind of from a personal side. We were suddenly stuck at home. You know, you hit 40, you have two beautiful children, but it's a bit like I had already started asking myself a little bit, hang on, what am I doing with my life? I'm selling shampoo, right? To put it a bit bluntly. Is there more, right? What's going to come next? So those questions had already started kind of entering my mind in my 30s, especially after I'd gone back after my daughter. Right. But I'd kind of squashed them and silenced them. Right. So that little voice in your head that kind of starts saying, hey. you know, what are you going to do with the rest of your life? I was basically, you know, justifying the fact that I had, you know, the two young kids, I had quite frankly, a great job, a great salary, a team that I loved, a brand that I loved. And therefore, you know, I was fine kind of thing. And then COVID hit, we're stuck at home. And at the same time, my company was struggling and that those months after you know, the lockdown, basically they went through a sale. And at the end of 2020, the company was taken over by a private equity firm. And honestly, from one day to the next, sorry, so overnight, it became like really, really toxic. At least that's the experience I had. And a lot of people that I've spoken to had as well. And, you know, again, looking back, I didn't really understand what was happening, but I realized now that it was just a complete mismatch in values, right? Everything that was important to me before, both in terms of the brands the purpose piece that we talked about you know and the what the brands were actually bringing to the world how we treated people in the company right and no they just did not care whatsoever and and also my leadership because from one day to the next also it seemed that we had absolutely no independence or leadership for our brands anymore like at my level we weren't even invited to some of the top management meetings. I remember working on an onboarding presentation and the day before the presentation for the new president being told to write a script so that someone else could present it. I remember just sitting in front of my computer shaking going, what? You know, I can't present my own brand that I've been working on for years. I'm the one who knows this brand in and out. And that was just it, right? That was really the head. I remember that day very clearly in December, sitting in front of my computer in my kitchen, where we are now, and just thinking, I can't do this, right? So I didn't leave straight away, but that was definitely the kind of, that, you know, in French you say, la goutte qui fait de bordelvaz, right? That drop that was just, it was just too much.
Speaker #0
The straw that breaks the camel's back.
Speaker #1
Thank you for the English expression, really, thank you. Exactly.
Speaker #0
Although I think that I like the one about the drop overflowing, the glass overflowing with the final drop. Yeah, wow, that's, it's so tough, isn't it, when that happens, because listening to you, It really sounds quite, I don't know what the word is, dehumanizing is a bit strong, but it's like everything that you've worked for and suddenly it's like you're just a ghost writer for someone else is pretty tough.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and it was exactly, and it was about, so dehumanizing honestly I think was the right word from a people point of view, but also the brands, like all of the strategies that we had built, like, you know. they were completely brushed aside and just it all that mattered was short-term growth short-term profit and you know they were actually quite open about that but therefore everything that I'd been working on for years right both in terms of building my team and building my brand didn't matter anymore so
Speaker #0
you're in this situation how did you finally make the decision to leave how long did it take you what happened during that period
Speaker #1
Took a while. You know, I think it takes a while to kind of realise and then accept what's happening to you. We were able to start going back to work in 2021 for a few days a week, right? Which helped a bit, reconnecting, because as I said, I had a team that I loved, so reconnecting with them in the office a few days a week was great. So that kind of, you know, suppressed a little bit, all of those frustrations. But basically what started happening is every Monday morning I'd wake up crying. And my husband was like, what's going on with you? And I was like, oh, I've got a whole week ahead of me to get through. So that was the beginning. I remember, again, like being ready to go off to work and, you know, make up, heels, the whole lot, and just having to sit back down on the kitchen chair and not being able to walk out the door one morning. You know, and I still did, kind of pulled myself together, got up, drove into work. More and more on autopilot, right? More and more kind of just doing things that I was told to do. and numbing out everything else to be honest because I think it was just too painful and still pushing through still continuing until it was my body who ended up basically telling me you've this has really got to stop right so I started not being able to sleep I started losing weight which usually I'd be really happy about but in this case you know when you're not on a diet exactly it's not a good sign and when it just keeps going down it actually becomes quite scary And then having infection after infection, different infections, and keep going, you know, you keep going back to a GP. And, you know, after a while, the GP says to you, is there anything else going on? And you're kind of like, don't really want to talk about it. And I mean, I ended up breaking down crying at my GPs and, you know, just saying, it's just a nightmare at work. And I just don't know what to do. And, you know, that was, I think, the first time the word burnout was pronounced. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm, you know, I'm not going through burnout. I think there was such a sense of shame. behind the word burnout that had been ingrained in us again in the corporate world right basically for me burnout meant you're not able to cope right there's too much work you're not able to cope you're weak yeah so I was like no no no no no and then it happened you know the word was pronounced again and again by a friend or by another doctor or whatever and after a while I'm like okay well what is this burnout thing basically and so that took a while to kind of accept and I was still very ashamed yeah I had to stop working at one point. I just, I literally, I was just this shaking mess that couldn't literally function. I curled up and a ball, and again, the kitchen's a big feature actually at the moment, in a ball on my kitchen floor at one point. So my husband came home and found me just shaking on the kitchen floor, right? So it was not easy. It was not easy, but ultimately, you know, it's the realization and the continued love and support of people that are close to you, right? That say to you, hang on, you know. your health I think is more important than continuing your career here and going to work for this company and it took me I'd say probably about six months after having realized that I was in burnout I'd say a whole year of burnout right so probably about six months of living through it without realizing and then another six months of knowing but just not kind of dealing with it let's say to to say okay I think actually you know my health is probably more important than continuing to attach myself to this company. I'm going to walk away. But that was really, really tough. I remember when I decided to walk away, like this defining moment. It wasn't the kitchen. I was upstairs. But, you know, I just remember like stopping and thinking, I've got to leave. It was just like this fundamental realization. And things started to get better after that. After I myself accepted, things started to get better.
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's amazing, isn't it? that coming to the realization and then... It's almost the saying it out loud, you know, the admitting it. Tell me a bit about how you got over this feeling of shame, how you found your identity again, having so kind of connected to your work.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and you're right, like this loss of identity, again, it sounds maybe a little bit corny, but looking back again, because you don't realise it at the time, I think the reason I struggled so much to accept that I was going to leave was because I didn't really know who I was without the job anymore. Right. You know, I'd been in this career for 20 years. I was so proud of it. Right. I was proud of what I did. I was proud of my job title. I was proud of how much money I was earning. And suddenly you don't have any of that anymore. And so if people ask, who are you? What do you reply? Because usually you reply your job title. Right. Yes. So I think that identity piece was a fundamental piece that I had to work on. And so. It got better because I also realized that, you know, no matter how much support I had at home, I needed someone external to help me. Doing it by myself was just not going to be possible. I was too lost. So I worked with a coach, someone like you, Ruth, and she was amazing. She really helped me. So we spent about a year coaching just on kind of finding myself again, listening to myself, realizing what was important to me, who I was, and I actually realizing that I actually had value without that job title.
Speaker #0
Right. which is a big thing right yeah and i just want to interject because this thought is in my head there's also a mourning that happens around letting go oh yes during that process of discovering again oh yes and i'm saying that because i know there are people listening who are going through this it's allowing yourself to grieve absolutely
Speaker #1
yeah there was a huge grieving period i cried a lot a lot i had nightmares for months afterwards where i was sorry i'll share my nightmare i was literally screaming at the board members of the company saying you're destroying the brand that's how much I cared yeah right so I was grieving for myself and my identity but I was also grieving for my team my brand and everything that I'd lost and it takes a lot of time right so that's probably why it took a whole year yeah to to kind of let's say recover and and start feeling much happier with myself and who I was and then it took a whole nother year to kind of work on what do I do with that now Right? I've got all these skills, I've got all this experience, you know, 20 years worth, which is worth something. I've also rediscovered my values, what's important to me. So what do I go and do with that? Right? That was a whole question as well.
Speaker #0
And I interrupted you at the point which I just want to underline is the key thing is realizing that you had value yourself without the job title.
Speaker #1
Oh, yes.
Speaker #0
and then being able to put that together with These are all the strengths and the capabilities, the skills that I've built over my career. These are my values. How can I bring this to the world, if you like? I mean, I can use that language because I know that you share it, but how can I put that to good use now?
Speaker #1
Absolutely. Yeah. And that's not easy, right? And I think that's a constant journey as well. I don't think you suddenly wake up one day and think, oh, this is what I'm going to do with the rest of my life, right? But for me, it's been the journey of discovery and still is today. There is, of course, coming back to the purpose piece that we talked about at the beginning, right? It's like, what's my personal purpose? But then how can I build brands that have a real purpose? And when I say purpose, it's not just I communicate something nice. It's like fundamentally the brand is trying to make a difference in the world. It's trying to improve something in the world. Right. And so that I realized that, you know, I had all of this marketing experience and brand building experience. And then what was important to me was really brands that were honest, brands that were bold. Brands. So we didn't talk about this, but I was so frustrated in P&G or, you know, in the companies afterwards where we often had to kind of dilute messages or what brands stood for so that we would get the kind of mass appeal.
Speaker #0
OK.
Speaker #1
Right. You know, all the testing you were in CMK. Right. So we always had to have that top two box appeal. and ultimately I you know I really wanted brands to to be much bolder and to to really stand for something yeah which means that you're going to appeal you know to a maybe a smaller group but you're really going to create something much stronger much more love and and that was what was important to me so I started kind of working on all of this thinking through all of this thinking okay let me go and help brands probably smaller ones you know want to go and have a positive impact in the world I didn't I was so out of energy that I couldn't imagine going back and trying to convince people in corporate to do this so I was more like okay let's work with kind of the smaller brands yeah And I basically, I started up my own consultancy to do that. And as I started experiencing building, you know, my own marketing and my own personal brand, and I communicate a lot on LinkedIn, I started putting out videos and stuff. And I was, you know, this is when the paths open up for you, right?
Speaker #0
So when you own who you are and what you really believe in.
Speaker #1
When you're authentically you, right? Again, it may sound corny, but when you truly just are talking from the heart about what's important to you, the opportunities, they actually come to you versus you having to chase them. and so I got contacted by someone asking me hey do you want to come teach marketing at the university in Geneva and I had just had this visceral reaction to it this again trusting my intuition right about yes I really I actually really love to go and do that so I've been doing that for two years I teach marketing and of course I talk about all the brands that are you know are more purpose-driven and have positive impact and they they even asked me to create a course called purpose-led brands right so I teach that which is I mean amazing and You know, since then I've realized I can, of course, and of course I love helping brands one-on-one because it enables me to be creative, which is still very important to me. But the impact that I can have by helping, well, by teaching, you know, hundreds of students every year now, which literally it's, you know, probably about a hundred per year now, could be so much bigger because they're the next generation that are going to be going out into the business world, right? They're going to be the ones that are leading the brands and the businesses of tomorrow. And so it's just... this amazing realization that actually you know I'm exactly where I need to be and the impact that I can have is bigger than I could have ever imagined before so yeah I'm extremely grateful for that but it's it's it's a learning curve every day and it was a massive journey oh yes it was a massive journey it really was it really was and and you know really tough as you as you know you've understood through the conversation that we've had but also I think also this other realization that it's not about reaching that final destination right it's not about i've ah i'm there i've got there it's about purposes every day right purpose is the journey that you live through so we just have to accept where we are and enjoy the you know the opportunities and the life that we have now today versus saying oh when i reach that destination i'll be happy right and i think a lot of corporate is about that it's like when i get promoted i would have succeeded when i get the salary increase i would have succeeded but ultimately as soon as you've got it Maybe a few months later, you'll be on to, okay, what's the next achievement that I want to have?
Speaker #0
It's the ever-extending ladder again, isn't it? You'll never get there. Yes,
Speaker #1
exactly. So we have to realise that ultimately, you know, life is the journey.
Speaker #0
And purpose is the journey. It's not the ultimate destination that we need to reach. So, you know, having left the corporate world in quite a harsh way, I'd say, people don't remember you. They forget you very quickly, I can tell you. Yeah. Right? So you're not remembered for who you are. You're just remembered for the, you know, that you're doing a job.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah, and we don't put, you know, the results of Q4 2026 on your tombstone, right? Absolutely not.
Speaker #0
So,
Speaker #1
well, you know, we're coming to a close. I've got a couple of final questions for you.
Speaker #2
So what are your hopes for the future?
Speaker #0
I mean, I really, really hope and believe, because I'm a positive person, that this next generation will, you know, start redefining success in the corporate world, right? I think ultimately it's about building brands with purpose, yes, but ultimately to build brands with purpose, we need to redefine how do we measure success in business, right? Because as we both know, success today is about growth. and never-ending growth is just not possible on this finite planet that we're living on right it's just not possible to constantly have these positive indices year on year so I think we need to redefine success in the business world we need to redefine how we build brands how we manage these brands and what we ultimately want them to bring to the world and I really hope that you know at least some of my students will take that with them into the business world with them and so my children right I see the world that they're living in is so drastically different to the world that we grew up in you know I really hope that you know they'll grow up with those values and and be able to change things as well yeah me too final question so
Speaker #1
what word of encouragement or advice would you give to people who might be listening who are facing what you faced this profound sense of disconnect between who they are and what they're doing. on a daily basis at work?
Speaker #0
I think, I mean, the first step is really being, learning to listen to yourself, like inside. You know, we have, our minds are constantly on, right? We have so many thoughts that are going through our minds and we constantly try to analyse, you know, the pro and cons list and all that kind of stuff. And I think ultimately, if we're able to more listen to our hearts, right, and our intuitions more, we'll get, you know, the right answers for ourselves versus the whole kind of rational. analysis in our brains and I think that starts by simply having a little bit of time for yourself every day which again is really hard I know right but carving out even just 10 minutes every day where you sit quietly with yourself or you go for a walk in nature or just something that enables you to just be with yourself without, you know, going for a walk without listening to something else without listening to a podcast without listening to music or without you know just being with yourself we don't We don't generally tend to find time for that. And I think it starts there. It starts being able to listen to yourself and trust your intuition.
Speaker #1
And your body.
Speaker #0
Yes.
Speaker #1
You know, you talked earlier about your body was telling you things. And I think we know there's so much connection between our body and our brain. And we're ignoring. I'm like you, you know, so much time, so much value given to our brains and our rational thought. But what is my body telling me right now? that I'm ignoring.
Speaker #0
So true. It's so true. And yeah, our bodies reflect absolutely what's going on with our kind of more emotional state. Right. So it's so important. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Thank you so much, Christina, for sharing your story, your journey. I know it's going to help so many people. And I'm going to share also in the notes of the podcast, how people can find you. I know you're starting to teach personal branding as well with your four B's so people can connect with you and they might want to hear more about that.
Speaker #0
That sounds great, Ruth. It's been an absolute pleasure. And honestly, I do hope that, you know, it will help someone because I know that if I had heard a story like this when I was going through a tough time, I'm sure it would have helped me also to know that I wasn't alone. So I hope it does help at least one person.
Speaker #1
I'm sure it will. Amazing.
Speaker #0
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker #2
As Christina said, she wishes she'd heard a story like this when she was struggling. So if someone comes to mind who might need this kind of encouragement, please do share the episode with them. Christina is a living example of moving through something hard and coming out hopeful because she listened to herself, allowed space to grieve what was lost, and then began to build something new. She also got help, in her case, from a coach. And many coaches offer a free chemistry session because the fit matters. And if we're not the right person, will happily refer you on. If you're curious about how coaching could support you right now, you can book a free 30-minute chemistry call with me at yourpathtosuccess.ch. Thanks for listening.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

Your Path to Success Podcast is here to inspire, encourage and equip you on your personal leadership journey. On this podcast you’ll hear: 💡Personal stories and life lessons from accomplished leaders💡Leadership growth case studies and 💡Real-life examples of how to apply evidence-based techniques to grow your own leadership impact and presence.

Ruth is an ICF-accredited professional coach and leadership development facilitator with a background as a cognitive psychologist, business executive and organisational leader in corporate and non-profit organisations.

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

Then, in Christina's own words:

"After a toxic private equity takeover, the absence of values and purpose my work led to burnout — and to a complete re-evaluation of my life and what success meant to me."

From this vision, Christina created her 4B Brand Model:

You can contact Christina and subscribe to her newsletter Brands For A New World here:

https://www.thebutterflymovements.com

If you'd like to contact Ruth and find out more about coaching you can do that here:

https://yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
What happens when the career you love turns toxic and your sense of purpose goes missing? I'm Ruth Kearns-Wollmann and this is your path to success, created to inspire, encourage and equip you on your leadership journey. Today's guest is Christina Bouglass, a brand builder and marketeer who spent 20 years... at Procter & Gamble, Coty and the Weller Company, shaping iconic beauty brands. Now she's passionate about supporting purpose-led brands to create positive impact for people, planet and profit, as well as teaching the next generation of marketers. In this episode, Christina shares how she faced and navigated burnout and how she reimagined purpose for herself and for marketing through her 4B model: Think Big, Be Bold. Act Brave and Become Beloved. A braver, kinder way to do marketing with real impact. So I'm excited to be here today with Christina Bouglass in person in your kitchen. How great is that?
Speaker #1
Hi Ruth, it's so lovely to see you again.
Speaker #0
Yeah, and we've known each other a long time. We met when we were working at P&G about 20 years ago in the same business unit, but we've only really reconnected. Recently, and honestly, I'm loving this period of my life where I'm daring to reach out and reconnect with people who I share a passion with. And I know that you are very passionate about brand purpose, but also personal purpose. And we learned that at P&G. at the beginning didn't we?
Speaker #1
Absolutely yeah I mean yes I remember my P&G well my many P&G days with much fondness it's um I mean it's an incredible marketing school for a start right I was in marketing my entire career yeah it's an incredible company I mean it's taught me everything that I know to be honest including purpose of course right because it's the core of what a brand stands for and what it's about.
Speaker #0
Yes yeah absolutely. How did you experience your early days in P&G?
Speaker #1
Yeah, so I mean I started really young, right? Like P&G recruits really young, as we all know, right? So straight out of uni, super eager and excited about building a career. I mean, so the experience was amazing and challenging at the same time, right? Because I think we're constantly pulled upwards when you're in an environment like P&G. We're given so many opportunities to learn, to train. And as you say, everybody is so smart. So it's this environment in which, you know, you kind of really have to thrive to survive. let's put it that way yeah so I mean I really loved those years but your career had to be the center of it right I think to really do well you had to really put your career ahead of anything else which you know when you're straight out of uni is absolutely fine and I was more than happy to do that it's also a really tough environment right so you have to learn to respect and abide by kind of the ways of doing things let's say very strong culture extremely strong culture many processes. that need to be followed. And you have to do things by the book and by the rules. And, you know, one thing that I struggled with a little bit, I'd say at the beginning was the fact that P&G is a very data-driven company. Every decision is made based on data. And I, you know, looking back, realized that I was alway very much focused on intuition and more kind of creativity and all that kind of stuff. And so that was one thing that I had to quickly learn, right? To kind of learn how to manage data, understand data. use data in the kind of daily decision making.
Speaker #0
And how aware were you in those early days of the tension between your natural way of doing things and this very data-driven way of doing things?
Speaker #1
I don't think I was aware, to be honest. I think there's a lot of looking back and kind of realising retrospectively. At the time, I think I felt a bit inadequate in those areas. So there were things I would love, right? The more kind of creative sides when we were like working with agencies and working on ads and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, everything that was more kind of analytical. Again, as I said, I had to learn quickly, right? I had a really, really difficult start because I had a boss that didn't really help me understand what was needed. I didn't really feel like I had the coaching that I needed at the beginning, let's say, and who basically told me that I wouldn't progress in the company. Those were her parting words to me after a few months, which was tough, right? Really tough to hear. But then, you know, after that, I had an amazing boss who, you know, we had a really frank conversation. and I said it was difficult. I've struggled with this. And he basically helped me and coached me. And, you know, looking back, as I said, I realized I had to fit a lot into boxes, but with the right coaching, you know, I was then able to thrive, right. And to kind of combine, you know, what I'd learned, right. With something that came much more naturally to me. And that really helped me then have this amazing career at Procter & Gamble.
Speaker #0
It's amazing, isn't it? When we have people who recognize what we're really good at and can help us with the things where we may be We're never going to be the most brilliant, but we need the basics in that to thrive.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. You know, I remember it just makes me think, I remember when I first started, we had to do every year our annual reviews, right? And when I first started, we had to write out our three strengths and our three weaknesses, they were called. And after a few years, P&G changed that to your three strengths and one opportunity. Exactly. But, you know, it's just it's that whole mindset shift of actually, you know, we're all different. And it's a question of building on our strengths and then just not letting those opportunities bring us down versus kind of, oh, my gosh, you have to go and work on all these weaknesses. Right. It's a completely different mindset. And that was the difference I felt between that first boss and the second boss as well.
Speaker #0
I think you told me that there was a boss who said something that. really made you realise what it was you brought to the party?
Speaker #1
Yeah so it was so after in P&G we travel a lot right and we have the opportunity to move assignments and stuff and my second assignment I was actually working in Paris and I remember my boss when he announced that I was going to move and come back to Geneva and I was getting promoted which was a big deal right obviously in P&G. I remember him saying that it was the first time ever that he'd had a manager work for him that he could simply look at in a meeting. and know if something was right for the brand or not right and and I at the time I didn't really make much of it but looking back I realized he really saw that I could feel right I could I could feel and sense what was right for for the brands that I was working on and I didn't necessarily need to go and analyze everything so
Speaker #0
yeah so I think it was a compliment at the time anyway hopefully yes a compliment and maybe also that you need to know how to transmit that to the agency afterwards don't you yeah exactly Well, how did you end up choosing marketing and P&G in the first place?
Speaker #1
So I'm originally English, you can probably hear, even though I grew up in Switzerland. And I went to university in the UK, which was also fabulous in terms of experience. And I was really lucky because the university, I was studying industrial economics, but the university had a business school. And in our final year, we were allowed to choose some options in that business school. And so marketing at the time wasn't a discipline, right? You couldn't just go and study marketing. But I studied, I chose an option called consumer behavior and another option called advertising and I was absolutely fascinated by the kind of consumer behavior side and the kind of psychology behind like shopper behavior and all that kind of thing and the impact that brands could have on us right and then on the advertising I remember making we we were asked to go and make this ad and I just thought this was the best thing in the world right I remember we made a Werther's original ad and we made it more modern okay and we had so much fun and that that I was like I want to work in marketing If that's what we do in marketing, I want to go work in marketing. And P&G kind of came naturally because, I mean, it was just seen as the pinnacle of marketing school, right? So I applied. Well, I applied back in Geneva because that was where my parents were and I was living. And I was just lucky enough to basically get a job and start straight away.
Speaker #0
And I know that you've told me that you were very driven as a child. You wanted to do well.
Speaker #1
Yeah, so I think...
Speaker #0
So going for the best came naturally to you?
Speaker #1
Going for the best definitely came naturally. I think, you know, my childhood, I was always academically kind of at ease, let's say, and, you know, always the best in my class and always having to get the best grade. And, you know, that was, it was that or nothing, basically, in my mind, yeah.
Speaker #0
I'm always fascinated by how our strengths and our talents, you know, show up in our lives very early on. You can probably see it in your kids, right? How did your creative side come out when you were a child or younger?
Speaker #1
Yeah, and you're absolutely right. So for me, I remember when I was younger, I loved writing. I used to have this book, I used to write poems, I used to love writing stories. And it's something, by the way, that I had completely forgotten, right? Yes. And I also remember, you know, when we had to do like shows at school or, you know, put on theatre pieces or whatever. I loved it. I loved being on stage. I loved being creative. I think those are really... aspects that started shining through quite early but that you quickly forget as you grow up yes you do Yeah.
Speaker #0
But I think, and we'll come back to this later, you've rediscovered the joy of marketing and creativity.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. Yes. And writing, by the way, I would love to. So I started writing a book.
Speaker #0
Oh, wow.
Speaker #1
I actually did a book proposal and then it's been on pause for a little bit, but I definitely still have in my heart the idea of wanting to write a book. It's something that's re-come up since I've remembered. Yeah.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Fantastic. So let's come back to your career a bit more chronologically. You're out of university, you're in P&G. Often in our 20s and our 30s, we are really about climbing the ladder, about establishing ourselves in our career and in life. How was that period of your life for you?
Speaker #1
Yeah, climbing the ladder. That's a good way to, that's exactly a good way. Yeah, I mean, my 20s were all about my career, that's for sure. I mean, and I loved, I loved my job, right? Let's be honest. I mean, we had so many opportunities in P&G. I was working on amazing brands. We have, as we said, so many smart people around us, the opportunity to travel, to keep training and learning. My 20s were definitely really, really career focused. I think like many of us, you know, early 30s, I got married and then I had two kids in my 30s. And thank goodness I was a bit more established in my career by that point. It's, I mean, you have to juggle so much, right, in your 30s. I think it's, I mean, it sounds a bit sexist, but especially as a woman, right? You have to juggle being a mum and still wanting to progress in your career. And it's not always easy to make the right choices about what's important to you. So, you know, I mean, I think I did pretty well, hopefully, with two kids that seemed pretty okay and balanced. And, you know, my career continued to go well in my 30s. But it was a constant juggle and there was constantly a feeling of guilt of either not being good enough at work or not being good enough at home. Constantly. And I remember when I went back after my daughter, I'd had... quite a difficult pregnancy with my daughter a lot of medical scares and all that kind of stuff and when I went back I it was it was really really difficult to leave her with other people and the only way I felt that I could find a little bit more balance was by trying to have an extra day with my kids that's the only solution I could imagine to be honest at the time right so I I asked for an 80% which I don't think had ever ever happened in marketing and P&G before they were like what and but you know what they gave it to me they gave me the 80 percent and I had a few years where I was working I had one extra day with the kids at home which as everyone says you know you basically get paid 80 percent and do 100 of the work in four days it's absolutely true but that day where I was officially off was so important to me to know that I was trying to create a little bit more balance in my life between work and children that I was absolutely fine doing that basically it's
Speaker #0
an absolutely massive topic as you know That for good and not so good reasons, women feel so much pressure around the childcare, around being there, around being a mum while working and feeling pressure from both sides. And it's really hard. It's really hard. And yeah, kudos to you for that, for being also trailblazing for other people to be able to say, that's how I create a boundary for myself.
Speaker #1
Yeah. absolutely yeah and and to have that day off you have to create massive boundaries right like I'm not going to take any meetings I'm not going to look at my emails and so Monday mornings were a bit of a stress because you had everything to catch up on Friday absolutely but again you you have to create your own boundaries no one else is going to do it for you right yeah
Speaker #0
I want to come to you know what what ended up being a pivot almost literally on your 40th birthday but
Speaker #1
you know you you did make a massive pivot a few years ago when did things start to come to a head yes so yeah exactly so basically in 2020 so it was the year that the whole world lived through a pivot right with uh with covid and with lockdown and as i was saying to you it was the first day of lockdown was literally the day of my 40th birthday so i kind of woke up to this world where we didn't know what was happening right in the world we had no idea what how long it was going to last for we just it was completely new world basically and It was a very weird sensation on that day, I remember. So that was kind of from a personal side. We were suddenly stuck at home. You know, you hit 40, you have two beautiful children, but it's a bit like I had already started asking myself a little bit, hang on, what am I doing with my life? I'm selling shampoo, right? To put it a bit bluntly. Is there more, right? What's going to come next? So those questions had already started kind of entering my mind in my 30s, especially after I'd gone back after my daughter. Right. But I'd kind of squashed them and silenced them. Right. So that little voice in your head that kind of starts saying, hey. you know, what are you going to do with the rest of your life? I was basically, you know, justifying the fact that I had, you know, the two young kids, I had quite frankly, a great job, a great salary, a team that I loved, a brand that I loved. And therefore, you know, I was fine kind of thing. And then COVID hit, we're stuck at home. And at the same time, my company was struggling and that those months after you know, the lockdown, basically they went through a sale. And at the end of 2020, the company was taken over by a private equity firm. And honestly, from one day to the next, sorry, so overnight, it became like really, really toxic. At least that's the experience I had. And a lot of people that I've spoken to had as well. And, you know, again, looking back, I didn't really understand what was happening, but I realized now that it was just a complete mismatch in values, right? Everything that was important to me before, both in terms of the brands the purpose piece that we talked about you know and the what the brands were actually bringing to the world how we treated people in the company right and no they just did not care whatsoever and and also my leadership because from one day to the next also it seemed that we had absolutely no independence or leadership for our brands anymore like at my level we weren't even invited to some of the top management meetings. I remember working on an onboarding presentation and the day before the presentation for the new president being told to write a script so that someone else could present it. I remember just sitting in front of my computer shaking going, what? You know, I can't present my own brand that I've been working on for years. I'm the one who knows this brand in and out. And that was just it, right? That was really the head. I remember that day very clearly in December, sitting in front of my computer in my kitchen, where we are now, and just thinking, I can't do this, right? So I didn't leave straight away, but that was definitely the kind of, that, you know, in French you say, la goutte qui fait de bordelvaz, right? That drop that was just, it was just too much.
Speaker #0
The straw that breaks the camel's back.
Speaker #1
Thank you for the English expression, really, thank you. Exactly.
Speaker #0
Although I think that I like the one about the drop overflowing, the glass overflowing with the final drop. Yeah, wow, that's, it's so tough, isn't it, when that happens, because listening to you, It really sounds quite, I don't know what the word is, dehumanizing is a bit strong, but it's like everything that you've worked for and suddenly it's like you're just a ghost writer for someone else is pretty tough.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and it was exactly, and it was about, so dehumanizing honestly I think was the right word from a people point of view, but also the brands, like all of the strategies that we had built, like, you know. they were completely brushed aside and just it all that mattered was short-term growth short-term profit and you know they were actually quite open about that but therefore everything that I'd been working on for years right both in terms of building my team and building my brand didn't matter anymore so
Speaker #0
you're in this situation how did you finally make the decision to leave how long did it take you what happened during that period
Speaker #1
Took a while. You know, I think it takes a while to kind of realise and then accept what's happening to you. We were able to start going back to work in 2021 for a few days a week, right? Which helped a bit, reconnecting, because as I said, I had a team that I loved, so reconnecting with them in the office a few days a week was great. So that kind of, you know, suppressed a little bit, all of those frustrations. But basically what started happening is every Monday morning I'd wake up crying. And my husband was like, what's going on with you? And I was like, oh, I've got a whole week ahead of me to get through. So that was the beginning. I remember, again, like being ready to go off to work and, you know, make up, heels, the whole lot, and just having to sit back down on the kitchen chair and not being able to walk out the door one morning. You know, and I still did, kind of pulled myself together, got up, drove into work. More and more on autopilot, right? More and more kind of just doing things that I was told to do. and numbing out everything else to be honest because I think it was just too painful and still pushing through still continuing until it was my body who ended up basically telling me you've this has really got to stop right so I started not being able to sleep I started losing weight which usually I'd be really happy about but in this case you know when you're not on a diet exactly it's not a good sign and when it just keeps going down it actually becomes quite scary And then having infection after infection, different infections, and keep going, you know, you keep going back to a GP. And, you know, after a while, the GP says to you, is there anything else going on? And you're kind of like, don't really want to talk about it. And I mean, I ended up breaking down crying at my GPs and, you know, just saying, it's just a nightmare at work. And I just don't know what to do. And, you know, that was, I think, the first time the word burnout was pronounced. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm, you know, I'm not going through burnout. I think there was such a sense of shame. behind the word burnout that had been ingrained in us again in the corporate world right basically for me burnout meant you're not able to cope right there's too much work you're not able to cope you're weak yeah so I was like no no no no no and then it happened you know the word was pronounced again and again by a friend or by another doctor or whatever and after a while I'm like okay well what is this burnout thing basically and so that took a while to kind of accept and I was still very ashamed yeah I had to stop working at one point. I just, I literally, I was just this shaking mess that couldn't literally function. I curled up and a ball, and again, the kitchen's a big feature actually at the moment, in a ball on my kitchen floor at one point. So my husband came home and found me just shaking on the kitchen floor, right? So it was not easy. It was not easy, but ultimately, you know, it's the realization and the continued love and support of people that are close to you, right? That say to you, hang on, you know. your health I think is more important than continuing your career here and going to work for this company and it took me I'd say probably about six months after having realized that I was in burnout I'd say a whole year of burnout right so probably about six months of living through it without realizing and then another six months of knowing but just not kind of dealing with it let's say to to say okay I think actually you know my health is probably more important than continuing to attach myself to this company. I'm going to walk away. But that was really, really tough. I remember when I decided to walk away, like this defining moment. It wasn't the kitchen. I was upstairs. But, you know, I just remember like stopping and thinking, I've got to leave. It was just like this fundamental realization. And things started to get better after that. After I myself accepted, things started to get better.
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's amazing, isn't it? that coming to the realization and then... It's almost the saying it out loud, you know, the admitting it. Tell me a bit about how you got over this feeling of shame, how you found your identity again, having so kind of connected to your work.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and you're right, like this loss of identity, again, it sounds maybe a little bit corny, but looking back again, because you don't realise it at the time, I think the reason I struggled so much to accept that I was going to leave was because I didn't really know who I was without the job anymore. Right. You know, I'd been in this career for 20 years. I was so proud of it. Right. I was proud of what I did. I was proud of my job title. I was proud of how much money I was earning. And suddenly you don't have any of that anymore. And so if people ask, who are you? What do you reply? Because usually you reply your job title. Right. Yes. So I think that identity piece was a fundamental piece that I had to work on. And so. It got better because I also realized that, you know, no matter how much support I had at home, I needed someone external to help me. Doing it by myself was just not going to be possible. I was too lost. So I worked with a coach, someone like you, Ruth, and she was amazing. She really helped me. So we spent about a year coaching just on kind of finding myself again, listening to myself, realizing what was important to me, who I was, and I actually realizing that I actually had value without that job title.
Speaker #0
Right. which is a big thing right yeah and i just want to interject because this thought is in my head there's also a mourning that happens around letting go oh yes during that process of discovering again oh yes and i'm saying that because i know there are people listening who are going through this it's allowing yourself to grieve absolutely
Speaker #1
yeah there was a huge grieving period i cried a lot a lot i had nightmares for months afterwards where i was sorry i'll share my nightmare i was literally screaming at the board members of the company saying you're destroying the brand that's how much I cared yeah right so I was grieving for myself and my identity but I was also grieving for my team my brand and everything that I'd lost and it takes a lot of time right so that's probably why it took a whole year yeah to to kind of let's say recover and and start feeling much happier with myself and who I was and then it took a whole nother year to kind of work on what do I do with that now Right? I've got all these skills, I've got all this experience, you know, 20 years worth, which is worth something. I've also rediscovered my values, what's important to me. So what do I go and do with that? Right? That was a whole question as well.
Speaker #0
And I interrupted you at the point which I just want to underline is the key thing is realizing that you had value yourself without the job title.
Speaker #1
Oh, yes.
Speaker #0
and then being able to put that together with These are all the strengths and the capabilities, the skills that I've built over my career. These are my values. How can I bring this to the world, if you like? I mean, I can use that language because I know that you share it, but how can I put that to good use now?
Speaker #1
Absolutely. Yeah. And that's not easy, right? And I think that's a constant journey as well. I don't think you suddenly wake up one day and think, oh, this is what I'm going to do with the rest of my life, right? But for me, it's been the journey of discovery and still is today. There is, of course, coming back to the purpose piece that we talked about at the beginning, right? It's like, what's my personal purpose? But then how can I build brands that have a real purpose? And when I say purpose, it's not just I communicate something nice. It's like fundamentally the brand is trying to make a difference in the world. It's trying to improve something in the world. Right. And so that I realized that, you know, I had all of this marketing experience and brand building experience. And then what was important to me was really brands that were honest, brands that were bold. Brands. So we didn't talk about this, but I was so frustrated in P&G or, you know, in the companies afterwards where we often had to kind of dilute messages or what brands stood for so that we would get the kind of mass appeal.
Speaker #0
OK.
Speaker #1
Right. You know, all the testing you were in CMK. Right. So we always had to have that top two box appeal. and ultimately I you know I really wanted brands to to be much bolder and to to really stand for something yeah which means that you're going to appeal you know to a maybe a smaller group but you're really going to create something much stronger much more love and and that was what was important to me so I started kind of working on all of this thinking through all of this thinking okay let me go and help brands probably smaller ones you know want to go and have a positive impact in the world I didn't I was so out of energy that I couldn't imagine going back and trying to convince people in corporate to do this so I was more like okay let's work with kind of the smaller brands yeah And I basically, I started up my own consultancy to do that. And as I started experiencing building, you know, my own marketing and my own personal brand, and I communicate a lot on LinkedIn, I started putting out videos and stuff. And I was, you know, this is when the paths open up for you, right?
Speaker #0
So when you own who you are and what you really believe in.
Speaker #1
When you're authentically you, right? Again, it may sound corny, but when you truly just are talking from the heart about what's important to you, the opportunities, they actually come to you versus you having to chase them. and so I got contacted by someone asking me hey do you want to come teach marketing at the university in Geneva and I had just had this visceral reaction to it this again trusting my intuition right about yes I really I actually really love to go and do that so I've been doing that for two years I teach marketing and of course I talk about all the brands that are you know are more purpose-driven and have positive impact and they they even asked me to create a course called purpose-led brands right so I teach that which is I mean amazing and You know, since then I've realized I can, of course, and of course I love helping brands one-on-one because it enables me to be creative, which is still very important to me. But the impact that I can have by helping, well, by teaching, you know, hundreds of students every year now, which literally it's, you know, probably about a hundred per year now, could be so much bigger because they're the next generation that are going to be going out into the business world, right? They're going to be the ones that are leading the brands and the businesses of tomorrow. And so it's just... this amazing realization that actually you know I'm exactly where I need to be and the impact that I can have is bigger than I could have ever imagined before so yeah I'm extremely grateful for that but it's it's it's a learning curve every day and it was a massive journey oh yes it was a massive journey it really was it really was and and you know really tough as you as you know you've understood through the conversation that we've had but also I think also this other realization that it's not about reaching that final destination right it's not about i've ah i'm there i've got there it's about purposes every day right purpose is the journey that you live through so we just have to accept where we are and enjoy the you know the opportunities and the life that we have now today versus saying oh when i reach that destination i'll be happy right and i think a lot of corporate is about that it's like when i get promoted i would have succeeded when i get the salary increase i would have succeeded but ultimately as soon as you've got it Maybe a few months later, you'll be on to, okay, what's the next achievement that I want to have?
Speaker #0
It's the ever-extending ladder again, isn't it? You'll never get there. Yes,
Speaker #1
exactly. So we have to realise that ultimately, you know, life is the journey.
Speaker #0
And purpose is the journey. It's not the ultimate destination that we need to reach. So, you know, having left the corporate world in quite a harsh way, I'd say, people don't remember you. They forget you very quickly, I can tell you. Yeah. Right? So you're not remembered for who you are. You're just remembered for the, you know, that you're doing a job.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah, and we don't put, you know, the results of Q4 2026 on your tombstone, right? Absolutely not.
Speaker #0
So,
Speaker #1
well, you know, we're coming to a close. I've got a couple of final questions for you.
Speaker #2
So what are your hopes for the future?
Speaker #0
I mean, I really, really hope and believe, because I'm a positive person, that this next generation will, you know, start redefining success in the corporate world, right? I think ultimately it's about building brands with purpose, yes, but ultimately to build brands with purpose, we need to redefine how do we measure success in business, right? Because as we both know, success today is about growth. and never-ending growth is just not possible on this finite planet that we're living on right it's just not possible to constantly have these positive indices year on year so I think we need to redefine success in the business world we need to redefine how we build brands how we manage these brands and what we ultimately want them to bring to the world and I really hope that you know at least some of my students will take that with them into the business world with them and so my children right I see the world that they're living in is so drastically different to the world that we grew up in you know I really hope that you know they'll grow up with those values and and be able to change things as well yeah me too final question so
Speaker #1
what word of encouragement or advice would you give to people who might be listening who are facing what you faced this profound sense of disconnect between who they are and what they're doing. on a daily basis at work?
Speaker #0
I think, I mean, the first step is really being, learning to listen to yourself, like inside. You know, we have, our minds are constantly on, right? We have so many thoughts that are going through our minds and we constantly try to analyse, you know, the pro and cons list and all that kind of stuff. And I think ultimately, if we're able to more listen to our hearts, right, and our intuitions more, we'll get, you know, the right answers for ourselves versus the whole kind of rational. analysis in our brains and I think that starts by simply having a little bit of time for yourself every day which again is really hard I know right but carving out even just 10 minutes every day where you sit quietly with yourself or you go for a walk in nature or just something that enables you to just be with yourself without, you know, going for a walk without listening to something else without listening to a podcast without listening to music or without you know just being with yourself we don't We don't generally tend to find time for that. And I think it starts there. It starts being able to listen to yourself and trust your intuition.
Speaker #1
And your body.
Speaker #0
Yes.
Speaker #1
You know, you talked earlier about your body was telling you things. And I think we know there's so much connection between our body and our brain. And we're ignoring. I'm like you, you know, so much time, so much value given to our brains and our rational thought. But what is my body telling me right now? that I'm ignoring.
Speaker #0
So true. It's so true. And yeah, our bodies reflect absolutely what's going on with our kind of more emotional state. Right. So it's so important. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Thank you so much, Christina, for sharing your story, your journey. I know it's going to help so many people. And I'm going to share also in the notes of the podcast, how people can find you. I know you're starting to teach personal branding as well with your four B's so people can connect with you and they might want to hear more about that.
Speaker #0
That sounds great, Ruth. It's been an absolute pleasure. And honestly, I do hope that, you know, it will help someone because I know that if I had heard a story like this when I was going through a tough time, I'm sure it would have helped me also to know that I wasn't alone. So I hope it does help at least one person.
Speaker #1
I'm sure it will. Amazing.
Speaker #0
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker #2
As Christina said, she wishes she'd heard a story like this when she was struggling. So if someone comes to mind who might need this kind of encouragement, please do share the episode with them. Christina is a living example of moving through something hard and coming out hopeful because she listened to herself, allowed space to grieve what was lost, and then began to build something new. She also got help, in her case, from a coach. And many coaches offer a free chemistry session because the fit matters. And if we're not the right person, will happily refer you on. If you're curious about how coaching could support you right now, you can book a free 30-minute chemistry call with me at yourpathtosuccess.ch. Thanks for listening.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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Description

Then, in Christina's own words:

"After a toxic private equity takeover, the absence of values and purpose my work led to burnout — and to a complete re-evaluation of my life and what success meant to me."

From this vision, Christina created her 4B Brand Model:

You can contact Christina and subscribe to her newsletter Brands For A New World here:

https://www.thebutterflymovements.com

If you'd like to contact Ruth and find out more about coaching you can do that here:

https://yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
What happens when the career you love turns toxic and your sense of purpose goes missing? I'm Ruth Kearns-Wollmann and this is your path to success, created to inspire, encourage and equip you on your leadership journey. Today's guest is Christina Bouglass, a brand builder and marketeer who spent 20 years... at Procter & Gamble, Coty and the Weller Company, shaping iconic beauty brands. Now she's passionate about supporting purpose-led brands to create positive impact for people, planet and profit, as well as teaching the next generation of marketers. In this episode, Christina shares how she faced and navigated burnout and how she reimagined purpose for herself and for marketing through her 4B model: Think Big, Be Bold. Act Brave and Become Beloved. A braver, kinder way to do marketing with real impact. So I'm excited to be here today with Christina Bouglass in person in your kitchen. How great is that?
Speaker #1
Hi Ruth, it's so lovely to see you again.
Speaker #0
Yeah, and we've known each other a long time. We met when we were working at P&G about 20 years ago in the same business unit, but we've only really reconnected. Recently, and honestly, I'm loving this period of my life where I'm daring to reach out and reconnect with people who I share a passion with. And I know that you are very passionate about brand purpose, but also personal purpose. And we learned that at P&G. at the beginning didn't we?
Speaker #1
Absolutely yeah I mean yes I remember my P&G well my many P&G days with much fondness it's um I mean it's an incredible marketing school for a start right I was in marketing my entire career yeah it's an incredible company I mean it's taught me everything that I know to be honest including purpose of course right because it's the core of what a brand stands for and what it's about.
Speaker #0
Yes yeah absolutely. How did you experience your early days in P&G?
Speaker #1
Yeah, so I mean I started really young, right? Like P&G recruits really young, as we all know, right? So straight out of uni, super eager and excited about building a career. I mean, so the experience was amazing and challenging at the same time, right? Because I think we're constantly pulled upwards when you're in an environment like P&G. We're given so many opportunities to learn, to train. And as you say, everybody is so smart. So it's this environment in which, you know, you kind of really have to thrive to survive. let's put it that way yeah so I mean I really loved those years but your career had to be the center of it right I think to really do well you had to really put your career ahead of anything else which you know when you're straight out of uni is absolutely fine and I was more than happy to do that it's also a really tough environment right so you have to learn to respect and abide by kind of the ways of doing things let's say very strong culture extremely strong culture many processes. that need to be followed. And you have to do things by the book and by the rules. And, you know, one thing that I struggled with a little bit, I'd say at the beginning was the fact that P&G is a very data-driven company. Every decision is made based on data. And I, you know, looking back, realized that I was alway very much focused on intuition and more kind of creativity and all that kind of stuff. And so that was one thing that I had to quickly learn, right? To kind of learn how to manage data, understand data. use data in the kind of daily decision making.
Speaker #0
And how aware were you in those early days of the tension between your natural way of doing things and this very data-driven way of doing things?
Speaker #1
I don't think I was aware, to be honest. I think there's a lot of looking back and kind of realising retrospectively. At the time, I think I felt a bit inadequate in those areas. So there were things I would love, right? The more kind of creative sides when we were like working with agencies and working on ads and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, everything that was more kind of analytical. Again, as I said, I had to learn quickly, right? I had a really, really difficult start because I had a boss that didn't really help me understand what was needed. I didn't really feel like I had the coaching that I needed at the beginning, let's say, and who basically told me that I wouldn't progress in the company. Those were her parting words to me after a few months, which was tough, right? Really tough to hear. But then, you know, after that, I had an amazing boss who, you know, we had a really frank conversation. and I said it was difficult. I've struggled with this. And he basically helped me and coached me. And, you know, looking back, as I said, I realized I had to fit a lot into boxes, but with the right coaching, you know, I was then able to thrive, right. And to kind of combine, you know, what I'd learned, right. With something that came much more naturally to me. And that really helped me then have this amazing career at Procter & Gamble.
Speaker #0
It's amazing, isn't it? When we have people who recognize what we're really good at and can help us with the things where we may be We're never going to be the most brilliant, but we need the basics in that to thrive.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. You know, I remember it just makes me think, I remember when I first started, we had to do every year our annual reviews, right? And when I first started, we had to write out our three strengths and our three weaknesses, they were called. And after a few years, P&G changed that to your three strengths and one opportunity. Exactly. But, you know, it's just it's that whole mindset shift of actually, you know, we're all different. And it's a question of building on our strengths and then just not letting those opportunities bring us down versus kind of, oh, my gosh, you have to go and work on all these weaknesses. Right. It's a completely different mindset. And that was the difference I felt between that first boss and the second boss as well.
Speaker #0
I think you told me that there was a boss who said something that. really made you realise what it was you brought to the party?
Speaker #1
Yeah so it was so after in P&G we travel a lot right and we have the opportunity to move assignments and stuff and my second assignment I was actually working in Paris and I remember my boss when he announced that I was going to move and come back to Geneva and I was getting promoted which was a big deal right obviously in P&G. I remember him saying that it was the first time ever that he'd had a manager work for him that he could simply look at in a meeting. and know if something was right for the brand or not right and and I at the time I didn't really make much of it but looking back I realized he really saw that I could feel right I could I could feel and sense what was right for for the brands that I was working on and I didn't necessarily need to go and analyze everything so
Speaker #0
yeah so I think it was a compliment at the time anyway hopefully yes a compliment and maybe also that you need to know how to transmit that to the agency afterwards don't you yeah exactly Well, how did you end up choosing marketing and P&G in the first place?
Speaker #1
So I'm originally English, you can probably hear, even though I grew up in Switzerland. And I went to university in the UK, which was also fabulous in terms of experience. And I was really lucky because the university, I was studying industrial economics, but the university had a business school. And in our final year, we were allowed to choose some options in that business school. And so marketing at the time wasn't a discipline, right? You couldn't just go and study marketing. But I studied, I chose an option called consumer behavior and another option called advertising and I was absolutely fascinated by the kind of consumer behavior side and the kind of psychology behind like shopper behavior and all that kind of thing and the impact that brands could have on us right and then on the advertising I remember making we we were asked to go and make this ad and I just thought this was the best thing in the world right I remember we made a Werther's original ad and we made it more modern okay and we had so much fun and that that I was like I want to work in marketing If that's what we do in marketing, I want to go work in marketing. And P&G kind of came naturally because, I mean, it was just seen as the pinnacle of marketing school, right? So I applied. Well, I applied back in Geneva because that was where my parents were and I was living. And I was just lucky enough to basically get a job and start straight away.
Speaker #0
And I know that you've told me that you were very driven as a child. You wanted to do well.
Speaker #1
Yeah, so I think...
Speaker #0
So going for the best came naturally to you?
Speaker #1
Going for the best definitely came naturally. I think, you know, my childhood, I was always academically kind of at ease, let's say, and, you know, always the best in my class and always having to get the best grade. And, you know, that was, it was that or nothing, basically, in my mind, yeah.
Speaker #0
I'm always fascinated by how our strengths and our talents, you know, show up in our lives very early on. You can probably see it in your kids, right? How did your creative side come out when you were a child or younger?
Speaker #1
Yeah, and you're absolutely right. So for me, I remember when I was younger, I loved writing. I used to have this book, I used to write poems, I used to love writing stories. And it's something, by the way, that I had completely forgotten, right? Yes. And I also remember, you know, when we had to do like shows at school or, you know, put on theatre pieces or whatever. I loved it. I loved being on stage. I loved being creative. I think those are really... aspects that started shining through quite early but that you quickly forget as you grow up yes you do Yeah.
Speaker #0
But I think, and we'll come back to this later, you've rediscovered the joy of marketing and creativity.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. Yes. And writing, by the way, I would love to. So I started writing a book.
Speaker #0
Oh, wow.
Speaker #1
I actually did a book proposal and then it's been on pause for a little bit, but I definitely still have in my heart the idea of wanting to write a book. It's something that's re-come up since I've remembered. Yeah.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Fantastic. So let's come back to your career a bit more chronologically. You're out of university, you're in P&G. Often in our 20s and our 30s, we are really about climbing the ladder, about establishing ourselves in our career and in life. How was that period of your life for you?
Speaker #1
Yeah, climbing the ladder. That's a good way to, that's exactly a good way. Yeah, I mean, my 20s were all about my career, that's for sure. I mean, and I loved, I loved my job, right? Let's be honest. I mean, we had so many opportunities in P&G. I was working on amazing brands. We have, as we said, so many smart people around us, the opportunity to travel, to keep training and learning. My 20s were definitely really, really career focused. I think like many of us, you know, early 30s, I got married and then I had two kids in my 30s. And thank goodness I was a bit more established in my career by that point. It's, I mean, you have to juggle so much, right, in your 30s. I think it's, I mean, it sounds a bit sexist, but especially as a woman, right? You have to juggle being a mum and still wanting to progress in your career. And it's not always easy to make the right choices about what's important to you. So, you know, I mean, I think I did pretty well, hopefully, with two kids that seemed pretty okay and balanced. And, you know, my career continued to go well in my 30s. But it was a constant juggle and there was constantly a feeling of guilt of either not being good enough at work or not being good enough at home. Constantly. And I remember when I went back after my daughter, I'd had... quite a difficult pregnancy with my daughter a lot of medical scares and all that kind of stuff and when I went back I it was it was really really difficult to leave her with other people and the only way I felt that I could find a little bit more balance was by trying to have an extra day with my kids that's the only solution I could imagine to be honest at the time right so I I asked for an 80% which I don't think had ever ever happened in marketing and P&G before they were like what and but you know what they gave it to me they gave me the 80 percent and I had a few years where I was working I had one extra day with the kids at home which as everyone says you know you basically get paid 80 percent and do 100 of the work in four days it's absolutely true but that day where I was officially off was so important to me to know that I was trying to create a little bit more balance in my life between work and children that I was absolutely fine doing that basically it's
Speaker #0
an absolutely massive topic as you know That for good and not so good reasons, women feel so much pressure around the childcare, around being there, around being a mum while working and feeling pressure from both sides. And it's really hard. It's really hard. And yeah, kudos to you for that, for being also trailblazing for other people to be able to say, that's how I create a boundary for myself.
Speaker #1
Yeah. absolutely yeah and and to have that day off you have to create massive boundaries right like I'm not going to take any meetings I'm not going to look at my emails and so Monday mornings were a bit of a stress because you had everything to catch up on Friday absolutely but again you you have to create your own boundaries no one else is going to do it for you right yeah
Speaker #0
I want to come to you know what what ended up being a pivot almost literally on your 40th birthday but
Speaker #1
you know you you did make a massive pivot a few years ago when did things start to come to a head yes so yeah exactly so basically in 2020 so it was the year that the whole world lived through a pivot right with uh with covid and with lockdown and as i was saying to you it was the first day of lockdown was literally the day of my 40th birthday so i kind of woke up to this world where we didn't know what was happening right in the world we had no idea what how long it was going to last for we just it was completely new world basically and It was a very weird sensation on that day, I remember. So that was kind of from a personal side. We were suddenly stuck at home. You know, you hit 40, you have two beautiful children, but it's a bit like I had already started asking myself a little bit, hang on, what am I doing with my life? I'm selling shampoo, right? To put it a bit bluntly. Is there more, right? What's going to come next? So those questions had already started kind of entering my mind in my 30s, especially after I'd gone back after my daughter. Right. But I'd kind of squashed them and silenced them. Right. So that little voice in your head that kind of starts saying, hey. you know, what are you going to do with the rest of your life? I was basically, you know, justifying the fact that I had, you know, the two young kids, I had quite frankly, a great job, a great salary, a team that I loved, a brand that I loved. And therefore, you know, I was fine kind of thing. And then COVID hit, we're stuck at home. And at the same time, my company was struggling and that those months after you know, the lockdown, basically they went through a sale. And at the end of 2020, the company was taken over by a private equity firm. And honestly, from one day to the next, sorry, so overnight, it became like really, really toxic. At least that's the experience I had. And a lot of people that I've spoken to had as well. And, you know, again, looking back, I didn't really understand what was happening, but I realized now that it was just a complete mismatch in values, right? Everything that was important to me before, both in terms of the brands the purpose piece that we talked about you know and the what the brands were actually bringing to the world how we treated people in the company right and no they just did not care whatsoever and and also my leadership because from one day to the next also it seemed that we had absolutely no independence or leadership for our brands anymore like at my level we weren't even invited to some of the top management meetings. I remember working on an onboarding presentation and the day before the presentation for the new president being told to write a script so that someone else could present it. I remember just sitting in front of my computer shaking going, what? You know, I can't present my own brand that I've been working on for years. I'm the one who knows this brand in and out. And that was just it, right? That was really the head. I remember that day very clearly in December, sitting in front of my computer in my kitchen, where we are now, and just thinking, I can't do this, right? So I didn't leave straight away, but that was definitely the kind of, that, you know, in French you say, la goutte qui fait de bordelvaz, right? That drop that was just, it was just too much.
Speaker #0
The straw that breaks the camel's back.
Speaker #1
Thank you for the English expression, really, thank you. Exactly.
Speaker #0
Although I think that I like the one about the drop overflowing, the glass overflowing with the final drop. Yeah, wow, that's, it's so tough, isn't it, when that happens, because listening to you, It really sounds quite, I don't know what the word is, dehumanizing is a bit strong, but it's like everything that you've worked for and suddenly it's like you're just a ghost writer for someone else is pretty tough.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and it was exactly, and it was about, so dehumanizing honestly I think was the right word from a people point of view, but also the brands, like all of the strategies that we had built, like, you know. they were completely brushed aside and just it all that mattered was short-term growth short-term profit and you know they were actually quite open about that but therefore everything that I'd been working on for years right both in terms of building my team and building my brand didn't matter anymore so
Speaker #0
you're in this situation how did you finally make the decision to leave how long did it take you what happened during that period
Speaker #1
Took a while. You know, I think it takes a while to kind of realise and then accept what's happening to you. We were able to start going back to work in 2021 for a few days a week, right? Which helped a bit, reconnecting, because as I said, I had a team that I loved, so reconnecting with them in the office a few days a week was great. So that kind of, you know, suppressed a little bit, all of those frustrations. But basically what started happening is every Monday morning I'd wake up crying. And my husband was like, what's going on with you? And I was like, oh, I've got a whole week ahead of me to get through. So that was the beginning. I remember, again, like being ready to go off to work and, you know, make up, heels, the whole lot, and just having to sit back down on the kitchen chair and not being able to walk out the door one morning. You know, and I still did, kind of pulled myself together, got up, drove into work. More and more on autopilot, right? More and more kind of just doing things that I was told to do. and numbing out everything else to be honest because I think it was just too painful and still pushing through still continuing until it was my body who ended up basically telling me you've this has really got to stop right so I started not being able to sleep I started losing weight which usually I'd be really happy about but in this case you know when you're not on a diet exactly it's not a good sign and when it just keeps going down it actually becomes quite scary And then having infection after infection, different infections, and keep going, you know, you keep going back to a GP. And, you know, after a while, the GP says to you, is there anything else going on? And you're kind of like, don't really want to talk about it. And I mean, I ended up breaking down crying at my GPs and, you know, just saying, it's just a nightmare at work. And I just don't know what to do. And, you know, that was, I think, the first time the word burnout was pronounced. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm, you know, I'm not going through burnout. I think there was such a sense of shame. behind the word burnout that had been ingrained in us again in the corporate world right basically for me burnout meant you're not able to cope right there's too much work you're not able to cope you're weak yeah so I was like no no no no no and then it happened you know the word was pronounced again and again by a friend or by another doctor or whatever and after a while I'm like okay well what is this burnout thing basically and so that took a while to kind of accept and I was still very ashamed yeah I had to stop working at one point. I just, I literally, I was just this shaking mess that couldn't literally function. I curled up and a ball, and again, the kitchen's a big feature actually at the moment, in a ball on my kitchen floor at one point. So my husband came home and found me just shaking on the kitchen floor, right? So it was not easy. It was not easy, but ultimately, you know, it's the realization and the continued love and support of people that are close to you, right? That say to you, hang on, you know. your health I think is more important than continuing your career here and going to work for this company and it took me I'd say probably about six months after having realized that I was in burnout I'd say a whole year of burnout right so probably about six months of living through it without realizing and then another six months of knowing but just not kind of dealing with it let's say to to say okay I think actually you know my health is probably more important than continuing to attach myself to this company. I'm going to walk away. But that was really, really tough. I remember when I decided to walk away, like this defining moment. It wasn't the kitchen. I was upstairs. But, you know, I just remember like stopping and thinking, I've got to leave. It was just like this fundamental realization. And things started to get better after that. After I myself accepted, things started to get better.
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's amazing, isn't it? that coming to the realization and then... It's almost the saying it out loud, you know, the admitting it. Tell me a bit about how you got over this feeling of shame, how you found your identity again, having so kind of connected to your work.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and you're right, like this loss of identity, again, it sounds maybe a little bit corny, but looking back again, because you don't realise it at the time, I think the reason I struggled so much to accept that I was going to leave was because I didn't really know who I was without the job anymore. Right. You know, I'd been in this career for 20 years. I was so proud of it. Right. I was proud of what I did. I was proud of my job title. I was proud of how much money I was earning. And suddenly you don't have any of that anymore. And so if people ask, who are you? What do you reply? Because usually you reply your job title. Right. Yes. So I think that identity piece was a fundamental piece that I had to work on. And so. It got better because I also realized that, you know, no matter how much support I had at home, I needed someone external to help me. Doing it by myself was just not going to be possible. I was too lost. So I worked with a coach, someone like you, Ruth, and she was amazing. She really helped me. So we spent about a year coaching just on kind of finding myself again, listening to myself, realizing what was important to me, who I was, and I actually realizing that I actually had value without that job title.
Speaker #0
Right. which is a big thing right yeah and i just want to interject because this thought is in my head there's also a mourning that happens around letting go oh yes during that process of discovering again oh yes and i'm saying that because i know there are people listening who are going through this it's allowing yourself to grieve absolutely
Speaker #1
yeah there was a huge grieving period i cried a lot a lot i had nightmares for months afterwards where i was sorry i'll share my nightmare i was literally screaming at the board members of the company saying you're destroying the brand that's how much I cared yeah right so I was grieving for myself and my identity but I was also grieving for my team my brand and everything that I'd lost and it takes a lot of time right so that's probably why it took a whole year yeah to to kind of let's say recover and and start feeling much happier with myself and who I was and then it took a whole nother year to kind of work on what do I do with that now Right? I've got all these skills, I've got all this experience, you know, 20 years worth, which is worth something. I've also rediscovered my values, what's important to me. So what do I go and do with that? Right? That was a whole question as well.
Speaker #0
And I interrupted you at the point which I just want to underline is the key thing is realizing that you had value yourself without the job title.
Speaker #1
Oh, yes.
Speaker #0
and then being able to put that together with These are all the strengths and the capabilities, the skills that I've built over my career. These are my values. How can I bring this to the world, if you like? I mean, I can use that language because I know that you share it, but how can I put that to good use now?
Speaker #1
Absolutely. Yeah. And that's not easy, right? And I think that's a constant journey as well. I don't think you suddenly wake up one day and think, oh, this is what I'm going to do with the rest of my life, right? But for me, it's been the journey of discovery and still is today. There is, of course, coming back to the purpose piece that we talked about at the beginning, right? It's like, what's my personal purpose? But then how can I build brands that have a real purpose? And when I say purpose, it's not just I communicate something nice. It's like fundamentally the brand is trying to make a difference in the world. It's trying to improve something in the world. Right. And so that I realized that, you know, I had all of this marketing experience and brand building experience. And then what was important to me was really brands that were honest, brands that were bold. Brands. So we didn't talk about this, but I was so frustrated in P&G or, you know, in the companies afterwards where we often had to kind of dilute messages or what brands stood for so that we would get the kind of mass appeal.
Speaker #0
OK.
Speaker #1
Right. You know, all the testing you were in CMK. Right. So we always had to have that top two box appeal. and ultimately I you know I really wanted brands to to be much bolder and to to really stand for something yeah which means that you're going to appeal you know to a maybe a smaller group but you're really going to create something much stronger much more love and and that was what was important to me so I started kind of working on all of this thinking through all of this thinking okay let me go and help brands probably smaller ones you know want to go and have a positive impact in the world I didn't I was so out of energy that I couldn't imagine going back and trying to convince people in corporate to do this so I was more like okay let's work with kind of the smaller brands yeah And I basically, I started up my own consultancy to do that. And as I started experiencing building, you know, my own marketing and my own personal brand, and I communicate a lot on LinkedIn, I started putting out videos and stuff. And I was, you know, this is when the paths open up for you, right?
Speaker #0
So when you own who you are and what you really believe in.
Speaker #1
When you're authentically you, right? Again, it may sound corny, but when you truly just are talking from the heart about what's important to you, the opportunities, they actually come to you versus you having to chase them. and so I got contacted by someone asking me hey do you want to come teach marketing at the university in Geneva and I had just had this visceral reaction to it this again trusting my intuition right about yes I really I actually really love to go and do that so I've been doing that for two years I teach marketing and of course I talk about all the brands that are you know are more purpose-driven and have positive impact and they they even asked me to create a course called purpose-led brands right so I teach that which is I mean amazing and You know, since then I've realized I can, of course, and of course I love helping brands one-on-one because it enables me to be creative, which is still very important to me. But the impact that I can have by helping, well, by teaching, you know, hundreds of students every year now, which literally it's, you know, probably about a hundred per year now, could be so much bigger because they're the next generation that are going to be going out into the business world, right? They're going to be the ones that are leading the brands and the businesses of tomorrow. And so it's just... this amazing realization that actually you know I'm exactly where I need to be and the impact that I can have is bigger than I could have ever imagined before so yeah I'm extremely grateful for that but it's it's it's a learning curve every day and it was a massive journey oh yes it was a massive journey it really was it really was and and you know really tough as you as you know you've understood through the conversation that we've had but also I think also this other realization that it's not about reaching that final destination right it's not about i've ah i'm there i've got there it's about purposes every day right purpose is the journey that you live through so we just have to accept where we are and enjoy the you know the opportunities and the life that we have now today versus saying oh when i reach that destination i'll be happy right and i think a lot of corporate is about that it's like when i get promoted i would have succeeded when i get the salary increase i would have succeeded but ultimately as soon as you've got it Maybe a few months later, you'll be on to, okay, what's the next achievement that I want to have?
Speaker #0
It's the ever-extending ladder again, isn't it? You'll never get there. Yes,
Speaker #1
exactly. So we have to realise that ultimately, you know, life is the journey.
Speaker #0
And purpose is the journey. It's not the ultimate destination that we need to reach. So, you know, having left the corporate world in quite a harsh way, I'd say, people don't remember you. They forget you very quickly, I can tell you. Yeah. Right? So you're not remembered for who you are. You're just remembered for the, you know, that you're doing a job.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah, and we don't put, you know, the results of Q4 2026 on your tombstone, right? Absolutely not.
Speaker #0
So,
Speaker #1
well, you know, we're coming to a close. I've got a couple of final questions for you.
Speaker #2
So what are your hopes for the future?
Speaker #0
I mean, I really, really hope and believe, because I'm a positive person, that this next generation will, you know, start redefining success in the corporate world, right? I think ultimately it's about building brands with purpose, yes, but ultimately to build brands with purpose, we need to redefine how do we measure success in business, right? Because as we both know, success today is about growth. and never-ending growth is just not possible on this finite planet that we're living on right it's just not possible to constantly have these positive indices year on year so I think we need to redefine success in the business world we need to redefine how we build brands how we manage these brands and what we ultimately want them to bring to the world and I really hope that you know at least some of my students will take that with them into the business world with them and so my children right I see the world that they're living in is so drastically different to the world that we grew up in you know I really hope that you know they'll grow up with those values and and be able to change things as well yeah me too final question so
Speaker #1
what word of encouragement or advice would you give to people who might be listening who are facing what you faced this profound sense of disconnect between who they are and what they're doing. on a daily basis at work?
Speaker #0
I think, I mean, the first step is really being, learning to listen to yourself, like inside. You know, we have, our minds are constantly on, right? We have so many thoughts that are going through our minds and we constantly try to analyse, you know, the pro and cons list and all that kind of stuff. And I think ultimately, if we're able to more listen to our hearts, right, and our intuitions more, we'll get, you know, the right answers for ourselves versus the whole kind of rational. analysis in our brains and I think that starts by simply having a little bit of time for yourself every day which again is really hard I know right but carving out even just 10 minutes every day where you sit quietly with yourself or you go for a walk in nature or just something that enables you to just be with yourself without, you know, going for a walk without listening to something else without listening to a podcast without listening to music or without you know just being with yourself we don't We don't generally tend to find time for that. And I think it starts there. It starts being able to listen to yourself and trust your intuition.
Speaker #1
And your body.
Speaker #0
Yes.
Speaker #1
You know, you talked earlier about your body was telling you things. And I think we know there's so much connection between our body and our brain. And we're ignoring. I'm like you, you know, so much time, so much value given to our brains and our rational thought. But what is my body telling me right now? that I'm ignoring.
Speaker #0
So true. It's so true. And yeah, our bodies reflect absolutely what's going on with our kind of more emotional state. Right. So it's so important. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Thank you so much, Christina, for sharing your story, your journey. I know it's going to help so many people. And I'm going to share also in the notes of the podcast, how people can find you. I know you're starting to teach personal branding as well with your four B's so people can connect with you and they might want to hear more about that.
Speaker #0
That sounds great, Ruth. It's been an absolute pleasure. And honestly, I do hope that, you know, it will help someone because I know that if I had heard a story like this when I was going through a tough time, I'm sure it would have helped me also to know that I wasn't alone. So I hope it does help at least one person.
Speaker #1
I'm sure it will. Amazing.
Speaker #0
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker #2
As Christina said, she wishes she'd heard a story like this when she was struggling. So if someone comes to mind who might need this kind of encouragement, please do share the episode with them. Christina is a living example of moving through something hard and coming out hopeful because she listened to herself, allowed space to grieve what was lost, and then began to build something new. She also got help, in her case, from a coach. And many coaches offer a free chemistry session because the fit matters. And if we're not the right person, will happily refer you on. If you're curious about how coaching could support you right now, you can book a free 30-minute chemistry call with me at yourpathtosuccess.ch. Thanks for listening.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

Then, in Christina's own words:

"After a toxic private equity takeover, the absence of values and purpose my work led to burnout — and to a complete re-evaluation of my life and what success meant to me."

From this vision, Christina created her 4B Brand Model:

You can contact Christina and subscribe to her newsletter Brands For A New World here:

https://www.thebutterflymovements.com

If you'd like to contact Ruth and find out more about coaching you can do that here:

https://yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
What happens when the career you love turns toxic and your sense of purpose goes missing? I'm Ruth Kearns-Wollmann and this is your path to success, created to inspire, encourage and equip you on your leadership journey. Today's guest is Christina Bouglass, a brand builder and marketeer who spent 20 years... at Procter & Gamble, Coty and the Weller Company, shaping iconic beauty brands. Now she's passionate about supporting purpose-led brands to create positive impact for people, planet and profit, as well as teaching the next generation of marketers. In this episode, Christina shares how she faced and navigated burnout and how she reimagined purpose for herself and for marketing through her 4B model: Think Big, Be Bold. Act Brave and Become Beloved. A braver, kinder way to do marketing with real impact. So I'm excited to be here today with Christina Bouglass in person in your kitchen. How great is that?
Speaker #1
Hi Ruth, it's so lovely to see you again.
Speaker #0
Yeah, and we've known each other a long time. We met when we were working at P&G about 20 years ago in the same business unit, but we've only really reconnected. Recently, and honestly, I'm loving this period of my life where I'm daring to reach out and reconnect with people who I share a passion with. And I know that you are very passionate about brand purpose, but also personal purpose. And we learned that at P&G. at the beginning didn't we?
Speaker #1
Absolutely yeah I mean yes I remember my P&G well my many P&G days with much fondness it's um I mean it's an incredible marketing school for a start right I was in marketing my entire career yeah it's an incredible company I mean it's taught me everything that I know to be honest including purpose of course right because it's the core of what a brand stands for and what it's about.
Speaker #0
Yes yeah absolutely. How did you experience your early days in P&G?
Speaker #1
Yeah, so I mean I started really young, right? Like P&G recruits really young, as we all know, right? So straight out of uni, super eager and excited about building a career. I mean, so the experience was amazing and challenging at the same time, right? Because I think we're constantly pulled upwards when you're in an environment like P&G. We're given so many opportunities to learn, to train. And as you say, everybody is so smart. So it's this environment in which, you know, you kind of really have to thrive to survive. let's put it that way yeah so I mean I really loved those years but your career had to be the center of it right I think to really do well you had to really put your career ahead of anything else which you know when you're straight out of uni is absolutely fine and I was more than happy to do that it's also a really tough environment right so you have to learn to respect and abide by kind of the ways of doing things let's say very strong culture extremely strong culture many processes. that need to be followed. And you have to do things by the book and by the rules. And, you know, one thing that I struggled with a little bit, I'd say at the beginning was the fact that P&G is a very data-driven company. Every decision is made based on data. And I, you know, looking back, realized that I was alway very much focused on intuition and more kind of creativity and all that kind of stuff. And so that was one thing that I had to quickly learn, right? To kind of learn how to manage data, understand data. use data in the kind of daily decision making.
Speaker #0
And how aware were you in those early days of the tension between your natural way of doing things and this very data-driven way of doing things?
Speaker #1
I don't think I was aware, to be honest. I think there's a lot of looking back and kind of realising retrospectively. At the time, I think I felt a bit inadequate in those areas. So there were things I would love, right? The more kind of creative sides when we were like working with agencies and working on ads and all that kind of stuff. And then, you know, everything that was more kind of analytical. Again, as I said, I had to learn quickly, right? I had a really, really difficult start because I had a boss that didn't really help me understand what was needed. I didn't really feel like I had the coaching that I needed at the beginning, let's say, and who basically told me that I wouldn't progress in the company. Those were her parting words to me after a few months, which was tough, right? Really tough to hear. But then, you know, after that, I had an amazing boss who, you know, we had a really frank conversation. and I said it was difficult. I've struggled with this. And he basically helped me and coached me. And, you know, looking back, as I said, I realized I had to fit a lot into boxes, but with the right coaching, you know, I was then able to thrive, right. And to kind of combine, you know, what I'd learned, right. With something that came much more naturally to me. And that really helped me then have this amazing career at Procter & Gamble.
Speaker #0
It's amazing, isn't it? When we have people who recognize what we're really good at and can help us with the things where we may be We're never going to be the most brilliant, but we need the basics in that to thrive.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. You know, I remember it just makes me think, I remember when I first started, we had to do every year our annual reviews, right? And when I first started, we had to write out our three strengths and our three weaknesses, they were called. And after a few years, P&G changed that to your three strengths and one opportunity. Exactly. But, you know, it's just it's that whole mindset shift of actually, you know, we're all different. And it's a question of building on our strengths and then just not letting those opportunities bring us down versus kind of, oh, my gosh, you have to go and work on all these weaknesses. Right. It's a completely different mindset. And that was the difference I felt between that first boss and the second boss as well.
Speaker #0
I think you told me that there was a boss who said something that. really made you realise what it was you brought to the party?
Speaker #1
Yeah so it was so after in P&G we travel a lot right and we have the opportunity to move assignments and stuff and my second assignment I was actually working in Paris and I remember my boss when he announced that I was going to move and come back to Geneva and I was getting promoted which was a big deal right obviously in P&G. I remember him saying that it was the first time ever that he'd had a manager work for him that he could simply look at in a meeting. and know if something was right for the brand or not right and and I at the time I didn't really make much of it but looking back I realized he really saw that I could feel right I could I could feel and sense what was right for for the brands that I was working on and I didn't necessarily need to go and analyze everything so
Speaker #0
yeah so I think it was a compliment at the time anyway hopefully yes a compliment and maybe also that you need to know how to transmit that to the agency afterwards don't you yeah exactly Well, how did you end up choosing marketing and P&G in the first place?
Speaker #1
So I'm originally English, you can probably hear, even though I grew up in Switzerland. And I went to university in the UK, which was also fabulous in terms of experience. And I was really lucky because the university, I was studying industrial economics, but the university had a business school. And in our final year, we were allowed to choose some options in that business school. And so marketing at the time wasn't a discipline, right? You couldn't just go and study marketing. But I studied, I chose an option called consumer behavior and another option called advertising and I was absolutely fascinated by the kind of consumer behavior side and the kind of psychology behind like shopper behavior and all that kind of thing and the impact that brands could have on us right and then on the advertising I remember making we we were asked to go and make this ad and I just thought this was the best thing in the world right I remember we made a Werther's original ad and we made it more modern okay and we had so much fun and that that I was like I want to work in marketing If that's what we do in marketing, I want to go work in marketing. And P&G kind of came naturally because, I mean, it was just seen as the pinnacle of marketing school, right? So I applied. Well, I applied back in Geneva because that was where my parents were and I was living. And I was just lucky enough to basically get a job and start straight away.
Speaker #0
And I know that you've told me that you were very driven as a child. You wanted to do well.
Speaker #1
Yeah, so I think...
Speaker #0
So going for the best came naturally to you?
Speaker #1
Going for the best definitely came naturally. I think, you know, my childhood, I was always academically kind of at ease, let's say, and, you know, always the best in my class and always having to get the best grade. And, you know, that was, it was that or nothing, basically, in my mind, yeah.
Speaker #0
I'm always fascinated by how our strengths and our talents, you know, show up in our lives very early on. You can probably see it in your kids, right? How did your creative side come out when you were a child or younger?
Speaker #1
Yeah, and you're absolutely right. So for me, I remember when I was younger, I loved writing. I used to have this book, I used to write poems, I used to love writing stories. And it's something, by the way, that I had completely forgotten, right? Yes. And I also remember, you know, when we had to do like shows at school or, you know, put on theatre pieces or whatever. I loved it. I loved being on stage. I loved being creative. I think those are really... aspects that started shining through quite early but that you quickly forget as you grow up yes you do Yeah.
Speaker #0
But I think, and we'll come back to this later, you've rediscovered the joy of marketing and creativity.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. Yes. And writing, by the way, I would love to. So I started writing a book.
Speaker #0
Oh, wow.
Speaker #1
I actually did a book proposal and then it's been on pause for a little bit, but I definitely still have in my heart the idea of wanting to write a book. It's something that's re-come up since I've remembered. Yeah.
Speaker #0
Yeah. Fantastic. So let's come back to your career a bit more chronologically. You're out of university, you're in P&G. Often in our 20s and our 30s, we are really about climbing the ladder, about establishing ourselves in our career and in life. How was that period of your life for you?
Speaker #1
Yeah, climbing the ladder. That's a good way to, that's exactly a good way. Yeah, I mean, my 20s were all about my career, that's for sure. I mean, and I loved, I loved my job, right? Let's be honest. I mean, we had so many opportunities in P&G. I was working on amazing brands. We have, as we said, so many smart people around us, the opportunity to travel, to keep training and learning. My 20s were definitely really, really career focused. I think like many of us, you know, early 30s, I got married and then I had two kids in my 30s. And thank goodness I was a bit more established in my career by that point. It's, I mean, you have to juggle so much, right, in your 30s. I think it's, I mean, it sounds a bit sexist, but especially as a woman, right? You have to juggle being a mum and still wanting to progress in your career. And it's not always easy to make the right choices about what's important to you. So, you know, I mean, I think I did pretty well, hopefully, with two kids that seemed pretty okay and balanced. And, you know, my career continued to go well in my 30s. But it was a constant juggle and there was constantly a feeling of guilt of either not being good enough at work or not being good enough at home. Constantly. And I remember when I went back after my daughter, I'd had... quite a difficult pregnancy with my daughter a lot of medical scares and all that kind of stuff and when I went back I it was it was really really difficult to leave her with other people and the only way I felt that I could find a little bit more balance was by trying to have an extra day with my kids that's the only solution I could imagine to be honest at the time right so I I asked for an 80% which I don't think had ever ever happened in marketing and P&G before they were like what and but you know what they gave it to me they gave me the 80 percent and I had a few years where I was working I had one extra day with the kids at home which as everyone says you know you basically get paid 80 percent and do 100 of the work in four days it's absolutely true but that day where I was officially off was so important to me to know that I was trying to create a little bit more balance in my life between work and children that I was absolutely fine doing that basically it's
Speaker #0
an absolutely massive topic as you know That for good and not so good reasons, women feel so much pressure around the childcare, around being there, around being a mum while working and feeling pressure from both sides. And it's really hard. It's really hard. And yeah, kudos to you for that, for being also trailblazing for other people to be able to say, that's how I create a boundary for myself.
Speaker #1
Yeah. absolutely yeah and and to have that day off you have to create massive boundaries right like I'm not going to take any meetings I'm not going to look at my emails and so Monday mornings were a bit of a stress because you had everything to catch up on Friday absolutely but again you you have to create your own boundaries no one else is going to do it for you right yeah
Speaker #0
I want to come to you know what what ended up being a pivot almost literally on your 40th birthday but
Speaker #1
you know you you did make a massive pivot a few years ago when did things start to come to a head yes so yeah exactly so basically in 2020 so it was the year that the whole world lived through a pivot right with uh with covid and with lockdown and as i was saying to you it was the first day of lockdown was literally the day of my 40th birthday so i kind of woke up to this world where we didn't know what was happening right in the world we had no idea what how long it was going to last for we just it was completely new world basically and It was a very weird sensation on that day, I remember. So that was kind of from a personal side. We were suddenly stuck at home. You know, you hit 40, you have two beautiful children, but it's a bit like I had already started asking myself a little bit, hang on, what am I doing with my life? I'm selling shampoo, right? To put it a bit bluntly. Is there more, right? What's going to come next? So those questions had already started kind of entering my mind in my 30s, especially after I'd gone back after my daughter. Right. But I'd kind of squashed them and silenced them. Right. So that little voice in your head that kind of starts saying, hey. you know, what are you going to do with the rest of your life? I was basically, you know, justifying the fact that I had, you know, the two young kids, I had quite frankly, a great job, a great salary, a team that I loved, a brand that I loved. And therefore, you know, I was fine kind of thing. And then COVID hit, we're stuck at home. And at the same time, my company was struggling and that those months after you know, the lockdown, basically they went through a sale. And at the end of 2020, the company was taken over by a private equity firm. And honestly, from one day to the next, sorry, so overnight, it became like really, really toxic. At least that's the experience I had. And a lot of people that I've spoken to had as well. And, you know, again, looking back, I didn't really understand what was happening, but I realized now that it was just a complete mismatch in values, right? Everything that was important to me before, both in terms of the brands the purpose piece that we talked about you know and the what the brands were actually bringing to the world how we treated people in the company right and no they just did not care whatsoever and and also my leadership because from one day to the next also it seemed that we had absolutely no independence or leadership for our brands anymore like at my level we weren't even invited to some of the top management meetings. I remember working on an onboarding presentation and the day before the presentation for the new president being told to write a script so that someone else could present it. I remember just sitting in front of my computer shaking going, what? You know, I can't present my own brand that I've been working on for years. I'm the one who knows this brand in and out. And that was just it, right? That was really the head. I remember that day very clearly in December, sitting in front of my computer in my kitchen, where we are now, and just thinking, I can't do this, right? So I didn't leave straight away, but that was definitely the kind of, that, you know, in French you say, la goutte qui fait de bordelvaz, right? That drop that was just, it was just too much.
Speaker #0
The straw that breaks the camel's back.
Speaker #1
Thank you for the English expression, really, thank you. Exactly.
Speaker #0
Although I think that I like the one about the drop overflowing, the glass overflowing with the final drop. Yeah, wow, that's, it's so tough, isn't it, when that happens, because listening to you, It really sounds quite, I don't know what the word is, dehumanizing is a bit strong, but it's like everything that you've worked for and suddenly it's like you're just a ghost writer for someone else is pretty tough.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and it was exactly, and it was about, so dehumanizing honestly I think was the right word from a people point of view, but also the brands, like all of the strategies that we had built, like, you know. they were completely brushed aside and just it all that mattered was short-term growth short-term profit and you know they were actually quite open about that but therefore everything that I'd been working on for years right both in terms of building my team and building my brand didn't matter anymore so
Speaker #0
you're in this situation how did you finally make the decision to leave how long did it take you what happened during that period
Speaker #1
Took a while. You know, I think it takes a while to kind of realise and then accept what's happening to you. We were able to start going back to work in 2021 for a few days a week, right? Which helped a bit, reconnecting, because as I said, I had a team that I loved, so reconnecting with them in the office a few days a week was great. So that kind of, you know, suppressed a little bit, all of those frustrations. But basically what started happening is every Monday morning I'd wake up crying. And my husband was like, what's going on with you? And I was like, oh, I've got a whole week ahead of me to get through. So that was the beginning. I remember, again, like being ready to go off to work and, you know, make up, heels, the whole lot, and just having to sit back down on the kitchen chair and not being able to walk out the door one morning. You know, and I still did, kind of pulled myself together, got up, drove into work. More and more on autopilot, right? More and more kind of just doing things that I was told to do. and numbing out everything else to be honest because I think it was just too painful and still pushing through still continuing until it was my body who ended up basically telling me you've this has really got to stop right so I started not being able to sleep I started losing weight which usually I'd be really happy about but in this case you know when you're not on a diet exactly it's not a good sign and when it just keeps going down it actually becomes quite scary And then having infection after infection, different infections, and keep going, you know, you keep going back to a GP. And, you know, after a while, the GP says to you, is there anything else going on? And you're kind of like, don't really want to talk about it. And I mean, I ended up breaking down crying at my GPs and, you know, just saying, it's just a nightmare at work. And I just don't know what to do. And, you know, that was, I think, the first time the word burnout was pronounced. And I was like, no, no, no, no, no. I'm, you know, I'm not going through burnout. I think there was such a sense of shame. behind the word burnout that had been ingrained in us again in the corporate world right basically for me burnout meant you're not able to cope right there's too much work you're not able to cope you're weak yeah so I was like no no no no no and then it happened you know the word was pronounced again and again by a friend or by another doctor or whatever and after a while I'm like okay well what is this burnout thing basically and so that took a while to kind of accept and I was still very ashamed yeah I had to stop working at one point. I just, I literally, I was just this shaking mess that couldn't literally function. I curled up and a ball, and again, the kitchen's a big feature actually at the moment, in a ball on my kitchen floor at one point. So my husband came home and found me just shaking on the kitchen floor, right? So it was not easy. It was not easy, but ultimately, you know, it's the realization and the continued love and support of people that are close to you, right? That say to you, hang on, you know. your health I think is more important than continuing your career here and going to work for this company and it took me I'd say probably about six months after having realized that I was in burnout I'd say a whole year of burnout right so probably about six months of living through it without realizing and then another six months of knowing but just not kind of dealing with it let's say to to say okay I think actually you know my health is probably more important than continuing to attach myself to this company. I'm going to walk away. But that was really, really tough. I remember when I decided to walk away, like this defining moment. It wasn't the kitchen. I was upstairs. But, you know, I just remember like stopping and thinking, I've got to leave. It was just like this fundamental realization. And things started to get better after that. After I myself accepted, things started to get better.
Speaker #0
Yeah. It's amazing, isn't it? that coming to the realization and then... It's almost the saying it out loud, you know, the admitting it. Tell me a bit about how you got over this feeling of shame, how you found your identity again, having so kind of connected to your work.
Speaker #1
Yeah, and you're right, like this loss of identity, again, it sounds maybe a little bit corny, but looking back again, because you don't realise it at the time, I think the reason I struggled so much to accept that I was going to leave was because I didn't really know who I was without the job anymore. Right. You know, I'd been in this career for 20 years. I was so proud of it. Right. I was proud of what I did. I was proud of my job title. I was proud of how much money I was earning. And suddenly you don't have any of that anymore. And so if people ask, who are you? What do you reply? Because usually you reply your job title. Right. Yes. So I think that identity piece was a fundamental piece that I had to work on. And so. It got better because I also realized that, you know, no matter how much support I had at home, I needed someone external to help me. Doing it by myself was just not going to be possible. I was too lost. So I worked with a coach, someone like you, Ruth, and she was amazing. She really helped me. So we spent about a year coaching just on kind of finding myself again, listening to myself, realizing what was important to me, who I was, and I actually realizing that I actually had value without that job title.
Speaker #0
Right. which is a big thing right yeah and i just want to interject because this thought is in my head there's also a mourning that happens around letting go oh yes during that process of discovering again oh yes and i'm saying that because i know there are people listening who are going through this it's allowing yourself to grieve absolutely
Speaker #1
yeah there was a huge grieving period i cried a lot a lot i had nightmares for months afterwards where i was sorry i'll share my nightmare i was literally screaming at the board members of the company saying you're destroying the brand that's how much I cared yeah right so I was grieving for myself and my identity but I was also grieving for my team my brand and everything that I'd lost and it takes a lot of time right so that's probably why it took a whole year yeah to to kind of let's say recover and and start feeling much happier with myself and who I was and then it took a whole nother year to kind of work on what do I do with that now Right? I've got all these skills, I've got all this experience, you know, 20 years worth, which is worth something. I've also rediscovered my values, what's important to me. So what do I go and do with that? Right? That was a whole question as well.
Speaker #0
And I interrupted you at the point which I just want to underline is the key thing is realizing that you had value yourself without the job title.
Speaker #1
Oh, yes.
Speaker #0
and then being able to put that together with These are all the strengths and the capabilities, the skills that I've built over my career. These are my values. How can I bring this to the world, if you like? I mean, I can use that language because I know that you share it, but how can I put that to good use now?
Speaker #1
Absolutely. Yeah. And that's not easy, right? And I think that's a constant journey as well. I don't think you suddenly wake up one day and think, oh, this is what I'm going to do with the rest of my life, right? But for me, it's been the journey of discovery and still is today. There is, of course, coming back to the purpose piece that we talked about at the beginning, right? It's like, what's my personal purpose? But then how can I build brands that have a real purpose? And when I say purpose, it's not just I communicate something nice. It's like fundamentally the brand is trying to make a difference in the world. It's trying to improve something in the world. Right. And so that I realized that, you know, I had all of this marketing experience and brand building experience. And then what was important to me was really brands that were honest, brands that were bold. Brands. So we didn't talk about this, but I was so frustrated in P&G or, you know, in the companies afterwards where we often had to kind of dilute messages or what brands stood for so that we would get the kind of mass appeal.
Speaker #0
OK.
Speaker #1
Right. You know, all the testing you were in CMK. Right. So we always had to have that top two box appeal. and ultimately I you know I really wanted brands to to be much bolder and to to really stand for something yeah which means that you're going to appeal you know to a maybe a smaller group but you're really going to create something much stronger much more love and and that was what was important to me so I started kind of working on all of this thinking through all of this thinking okay let me go and help brands probably smaller ones you know want to go and have a positive impact in the world I didn't I was so out of energy that I couldn't imagine going back and trying to convince people in corporate to do this so I was more like okay let's work with kind of the smaller brands yeah And I basically, I started up my own consultancy to do that. And as I started experiencing building, you know, my own marketing and my own personal brand, and I communicate a lot on LinkedIn, I started putting out videos and stuff. And I was, you know, this is when the paths open up for you, right?
Speaker #0
So when you own who you are and what you really believe in.
Speaker #1
When you're authentically you, right? Again, it may sound corny, but when you truly just are talking from the heart about what's important to you, the opportunities, they actually come to you versus you having to chase them. and so I got contacted by someone asking me hey do you want to come teach marketing at the university in Geneva and I had just had this visceral reaction to it this again trusting my intuition right about yes I really I actually really love to go and do that so I've been doing that for two years I teach marketing and of course I talk about all the brands that are you know are more purpose-driven and have positive impact and they they even asked me to create a course called purpose-led brands right so I teach that which is I mean amazing and You know, since then I've realized I can, of course, and of course I love helping brands one-on-one because it enables me to be creative, which is still very important to me. But the impact that I can have by helping, well, by teaching, you know, hundreds of students every year now, which literally it's, you know, probably about a hundred per year now, could be so much bigger because they're the next generation that are going to be going out into the business world, right? They're going to be the ones that are leading the brands and the businesses of tomorrow. And so it's just... this amazing realization that actually you know I'm exactly where I need to be and the impact that I can have is bigger than I could have ever imagined before so yeah I'm extremely grateful for that but it's it's it's a learning curve every day and it was a massive journey oh yes it was a massive journey it really was it really was and and you know really tough as you as you know you've understood through the conversation that we've had but also I think also this other realization that it's not about reaching that final destination right it's not about i've ah i'm there i've got there it's about purposes every day right purpose is the journey that you live through so we just have to accept where we are and enjoy the you know the opportunities and the life that we have now today versus saying oh when i reach that destination i'll be happy right and i think a lot of corporate is about that it's like when i get promoted i would have succeeded when i get the salary increase i would have succeeded but ultimately as soon as you've got it Maybe a few months later, you'll be on to, okay, what's the next achievement that I want to have?
Speaker #0
It's the ever-extending ladder again, isn't it? You'll never get there. Yes,
Speaker #1
exactly. So we have to realise that ultimately, you know, life is the journey.
Speaker #0
And purpose is the journey. It's not the ultimate destination that we need to reach. So, you know, having left the corporate world in quite a harsh way, I'd say, people don't remember you. They forget you very quickly, I can tell you. Yeah. Right? So you're not remembered for who you are. You're just remembered for the, you know, that you're doing a job.
Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah, and we don't put, you know, the results of Q4 2026 on your tombstone, right? Absolutely not.
Speaker #0
So,
Speaker #1
well, you know, we're coming to a close. I've got a couple of final questions for you.
Speaker #2
So what are your hopes for the future?
Speaker #0
I mean, I really, really hope and believe, because I'm a positive person, that this next generation will, you know, start redefining success in the corporate world, right? I think ultimately it's about building brands with purpose, yes, but ultimately to build brands with purpose, we need to redefine how do we measure success in business, right? Because as we both know, success today is about growth. and never-ending growth is just not possible on this finite planet that we're living on right it's just not possible to constantly have these positive indices year on year so I think we need to redefine success in the business world we need to redefine how we build brands how we manage these brands and what we ultimately want them to bring to the world and I really hope that you know at least some of my students will take that with them into the business world with them and so my children right I see the world that they're living in is so drastically different to the world that we grew up in you know I really hope that you know they'll grow up with those values and and be able to change things as well yeah me too final question so
Speaker #1
what word of encouragement or advice would you give to people who might be listening who are facing what you faced this profound sense of disconnect between who they are and what they're doing. on a daily basis at work?
Speaker #0
I think, I mean, the first step is really being, learning to listen to yourself, like inside. You know, we have, our minds are constantly on, right? We have so many thoughts that are going through our minds and we constantly try to analyse, you know, the pro and cons list and all that kind of stuff. And I think ultimately, if we're able to more listen to our hearts, right, and our intuitions more, we'll get, you know, the right answers for ourselves versus the whole kind of rational. analysis in our brains and I think that starts by simply having a little bit of time for yourself every day which again is really hard I know right but carving out even just 10 minutes every day where you sit quietly with yourself or you go for a walk in nature or just something that enables you to just be with yourself without, you know, going for a walk without listening to something else without listening to a podcast without listening to music or without you know just being with yourself we don't We don't generally tend to find time for that. And I think it starts there. It starts being able to listen to yourself and trust your intuition.
Speaker #1
And your body.
Speaker #0
Yes.
Speaker #1
You know, you talked earlier about your body was telling you things. And I think we know there's so much connection between our body and our brain. And we're ignoring. I'm like you, you know, so much time, so much value given to our brains and our rational thought. But what is my body telling me right now? that I'm ignoring.
Speaker #0
So true. It's so true. And yeah, our bodies reflect absolutely what's going on with our kind of more emotional state. Right. So it's so important. Yeah.
Speaker #1
Thank you so much, Christina, for sharing your story, your journey. I know it's going to help so many people. And I'm going to share also in the notes of the podcast, how people can find you. I know you're starting to teach personal branding as well with your four B's so people can connect with you and they might want to hear more about that.
Speaker #0
That sounds great, Ruth. It's been an absolute pleasure. And honestly, I do hope that, you know, it will help someone because I know that if I had heard a story like this when I was going through a tough time, I'm sure it would have helped me also to know that I wasn't alone. So I hope it does help at least one person.
Speaker #1
I'm sure it will. Amazing.
Speaker #0
Thank you. Thank you.
Speaker #2
As Christina said, she wishes she'd heard a story like this when she was struggling. So if someone comes to mind who might need this kind of encouragement, please do share the episode with them. Christina is a living example of moving through something hard and coming out hopeful because she listened to herself, allowed space to grieve what was lost, and then began to build something new. She also got help, in her case, from a coach. And many coaches offer a free chemistry session because the fit matters. And if we're not the right person, will happily refer you on. If you're curious about how coaching could support you right now, you can book a free 30-minute chemistry call with me at yourpathtosuccess.ch. Thanks for listening.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About Your Path to Success with Ruth Kearns Wollmann

She partners with established and emerging leaders as they seek to navigate their path to success from a place of strength, authenticity and purpose.

To find out more about Ruth's work with individuals and organisations visit her website at: yourpathtosuccess.ch

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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