- Speaker #0
Hello and welcome to your path to success with Ruth Kearns Vollman. This podcast is all about inspiring, encouraging you and equipping you on your personal path to success. This interview today with Sylvie Moreau is a breath of fresh air, full of positive and practical wisdom about success and fulfillment in work and life. Sylvie has a track record of successfully managing multi-billion dollar businesses most recently as president of Coty Professional Beauty. 27 years into her successful career, she is currently taking a break before starting her next position and took some time with me to share what has helped her to maintain her energy and passion throughout her career so far, what she has learned about how to create a fulfilling career and how she defines success, and what her personal purpose and passions are as she looks to the future. Enjoy the interview. So my guest today is Sylvie Moreau. Sylvie has had a 25-year career so far in fast-moving consumer goods with a strong track record of successfully leading multi-billion dollar businesses, most recently as president of professional beauty at Coty. Sylvie, welcome to the podcast.
- Speaker #1
Hello. Thank you, Ruth, for the opportunity. I'm really delighted to take part in your Path to Success podcast today.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, and I'm delighted to have you and to hear about your journey, but also because we worked together, I think, over 20 years ago or nearly 20 years ago now. And I have fond memories of that time working on the Pantene brand together, doing great consumer and brand equity work. And I want to start by asking about one thing I remember from that time that is very important to you, which is... planning and taking your vacation. Why is that so important to you?
- Speaker #1
Well, you know,
- Speaker #0
it's still important.
- Speaker #1
Yes, exactly. But from my very first day in the professional life, I have realized that to be successful, I would need to have a life. It's not about living to work, but working to live. So vacation, but rest, recuperation are my fuel for success and happiness. And I know that if I'm well, I can lead effectively and spread positive energy amongst others. So Yes, you remember well, I've been always taking all my vacations, planning them diligently. Actually, it's the first thing I did every start of the year, putting my days in the tracking system. And I love vacation. But for us also, vacation is travel because we don't do stocation. We travel and it's a big passion for the family. And it's a big spending choice. And I see all these family vacations as the best investment we can make. because we're creating memories and these are precious and they even appreciate over time.
- Speaker #0
So I have so many questions about this, but I think the first is, how do you go about doing that planning as a family?
- Speaker #1
Well, you know, it's not rocket science when you have kids, because you want to sync your vacation together with your kids. And those calendar of vacation for kids are published well in advance. So, you know... Most of it is taking the time off when, you know, there's a break in winter and a break in around Easter and a break in fall and then planning the dates in summer. And so that's part of the discussions we have at home with my husband about which are the days and then first come, first serve. So we always decided, you know, let's let's block them in the system early on in the in the year. And then we know that we have this great time off to long for.
- Speaker #0
um as as we work fearlessly in our professional life yeah yeah and i love the idea of making memories it's uh it's a joy isn't it to have them to look forward to and to look back on exactly so tell us a bit more about how you manage your energy on a day-to-day basis because as you say you need to have the energy to be fully present at work to be fully there and
- Speaker #1
give your best well first I am very disciplined to sleep enough every day. For me, it's seven and a half hours. And if I can't give myself this amount of sleep, what matters to me to be energized during the day is that I sleep a multiple of 90 minutes so that I wake up in the light stage of my sleep and not when I'm in deep sleep. So if it's not seven and a half, six hours, which is the best count for me. And I think this discipline about sleep is something I encourage every person to really dig and realize what they need personally, because it's the best kept beauty secret. It's the best kept health secret and it's free. So that's for sure my biggest tip to get energy. Then maybe two other smaller ones. I like to start every morning before breakfast with exercise. Okay. I like to say ideally 30 minutes, but if not at least 10 minutes of stretching, because it's to increase the blood flow in the muscles, but also in the brain. And my third tip is always start the day with positive energy. So in my case, I like to sip my tea and then browse through social media to connect with my positive and creative mind and connect with our customers, hairdressers and nail artists and see their beautiful creation. I think it's always good to start the day with a positive mindset.
- Speaker #0
It's funny, you may not know this, but well, you know that I follow you on social media, but I also enjoy looking at hair. So I've never got over working on the hair care business. It's great to have some tips for the day to day and managing your energy and your sleep. You've just come out of a very intense period. You can maybe tell us a bit about it, an intense period of time with the Coty business. How do you keep your energy over the long haul and over these intense periods of work?
- Speaker #1
I feel that the way to manage over the years, the ups and downs of life and business is to live a life with purpose and to follow your passion. You know, passion happens without success, but true success never happens without passion. And so, yes, the last 10 years of my life have been very intense on the professional front, but they've also been the most fulfilling for me. And as I look back, you know, I chose to move to the professional business shortly after the Wella acquisition by P&G more than 10 years ago. And the choice at the time was, you know, I'm a beauty lover. I want to learn a new business model. So it was very rational. But in the end, I realized I found a place where I was fully leveraging my strengths. And I genuinely fell in love with the professional industry. And I found my passion. Because the industry is all about people and experiences. It's filled with emotions and inspiration. But at the same time, it's very commercial and very operational, which I love. So what was a rational choice at the end ended up being the best possible choice because it helped me perform at my best every single day. And I kept learning and growing. And so, you know, the other day I found that, came across that concept, which I thought was so powerful. It's a Japanese concept called Ikigai, which is a model about self-fulfillment. I think it stands for, you know, Ikigai means the reason for being for someone. And it's this magic place where you could combine what you love with what you're good at. So your strength, what you could be paid for, so your profession, but also what makes a difference in the world, like your vocation. And. And as I came across that concept, I said, bang, you know, with my role at Coty as president of professional division, I feel blessed that I've been able to combine my personal passion with my profession and make a difference in the world. So I think that's the secret of, you know, resilience in the end is find a space of passion that leveraging your strength so that even if you work really hard and you put all your energy, the energy is full on. You know, there's no loss of energy.
- Speaker #0
um because you're in your place you're in the right place it's it's interesting because you say it was a rational decision i guess not yes but it was a rational decision that you took with great self-awareness about what your strengths are and what your and what your passions are in fact you know you said you know i love the beauty industry and you wanted to grow and you wanted to learn new business models so while it sounds rational and it was rational it was rational based on what you knew was also passion and emotion in the end.
- Speaker #1
Absolutely. Absolutely.
- Speaker #0
I know that recently you decided to step down from your role and you're actually taking a year off. I'm fascinated by how you came to that decision, knowing that you love this work, but knowing also that it's been... a challenging process also that you've been through.
- Speaker #1
Yes, so indeed I'm taking some time off after a full-on 23 years career in P&G and then a full-on four years at Coty and I've decided to step down from my position and it was a very difficult decision but I decided to leave my position because the business I preside. the Coty professional beauty business has just become an independent company. backed as a majority shareholder by the highly regarded private equity firm KKR and then Coty is still a shareholder so we went through a divestiture process it was the second time that this happened in five years because P&G divested the business and got merged with Coty and then five years later Coty decided to deleverage its position and then divest the professional beauty business was not its core so I went through that process and I led that process yet again. And as much as I love the professional industry, the business, the brand, and most of it, all these people, I also believe it's important to know when to move on. And for the past years, I had given my heart and soul to the organization under three different or two different shareholders. And while it was a difficult decision to step down, to leave behind all what I love, I firmly believe that my mission has been fulfilled. because I've I've Now, you know, I've led Wella to independence again. I feel it will be my legacy. And I know I'm living on a high. And so it's a good moment. And so, you know, when you weigh the pros and cons, I think living on a high is what we should all strive for. And I felt like it would always be my legacy that I've led Wella to independence. And so... Let me now put my energy into a new, fulfilling, hopefully as meaningful professional adventure. I don't know what it will be. I will work hard on defining the best next phase for me. But I know that I've led well into independence and I can always look back at this and say, OK, this was my legacy. So but for now, time to rest, you know, to renew, to reconnect with myself. And then I'll figure out what's next. but for now it's it's Let's pause a bit.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. It's good to know when to press pause. And more fond memories there.
- Speaker #1
Exactly.
- Speaker #0
That you've created. And you talked about a legacy. And that makes me think about, you know, how we define success. Because one of the things that I believe and I also discover more and more the more I work with people is that success is very personal. or the definition of success is very personal. How do you define success for yourself?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, it's not an easy question, but I would say I define success very holistically. First of all, holistically, because again, I don't want to define success as just professional success. My definition of success is to have a fulfilling life as a wife, as a mother, as a daughter. as a sister, as a friend, and also as a fulfilling career. So there's this first notion of holistic as a person. But then I think also, when I look back, my definition on the professional definition of success is including of my career, but also my husband's career. So that would be how I define success.
- Speaker #0
I'm really... struck by you talking about this holistic aspect of you know success is about your whole life how have you and your husband managed the this fulfilling career for both of you and
- Speaker #1
a family life you know I remember conversation my husband and I had quite early on in our relationship when we discussed that and we agreed that one we would have a family Okay. but that we would strive for both of us to pursue fulfilling careers. And to make this vision come to life, so first you have to discuss about it and not let things being unspoken. But then you also have to discuss what are the tough choices you need to make along the way. So, for example, let me illustrate. So first, when we became parents, to make it work for both our careers, We made the choice to have a full-time nanny when our daughter Pauline was just born. And it turned out to be a critical role in our lives because it's a lifesaver. We were both working full-time and living very far away from our families. And so at first it's a big investment, but I always say once it's in the base, it's in the base. So you get used to it. But that was a life-changing choice because I'll tell you, Ruth, like now Pauline has left the nest. I still have my nanny. She's my nanny. She takes care of all the household chores, et cetera. So, and we would never be able to have a... our careers if we had so many mundane stuff to do at home. And that's one of the decisions that we made together as a couple. Another conversation we had was, you know, in P&G, you're always being asked about what's your mobility. And our decision to have two fulfilling careers impacted my declared mobility because my husband, he needs to work in a French-speaking environment. Because fluency is very critical to his success. He's in a sales organization. And so, of course, fluency in communication is critical. And so I've declared preference for, at the time, Paris, Geneva, Brussels, where P&G had been the headquarters. And I've avoided any relocation which would not work for him, like Cincinnati or even in Asia. Now, I'm sure that I would have had a great career. And, you know, having been exposed to the Asian market, for example, it's something I would regret. in my profession, but I don't regret it as a couple because to that day, we have never sacrificed each other's career for each other. Never as one or the other had to say, I need to let go to follow you. So I think that's quite precious, but that had to come with a third decision and a third conversation, which was very important, which is to make it work. Essentially, Ruth. We've been... split family for the last 20 years because my husband is having his career in France and I'm living in Geneva. We are living in Geneva as a family. So essentially he's working from home two, three days a week and working from Paris the rest of the week. And I actually believe it's the secret of lasting couples because we really enjoy seeing each other. And the lockdown was quite a shock to us because we've never been, you know, with each other for so long. So, um, And I also believe that it helped us develop very strong relationship individually with our daughter. Because, you know, yes, we've had some family time being the three of us together in weekends. But both him and I have had times when we were alone with her at home in Geneva. And that makes for a very different, you know, relationship. And that was very precious.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. And it's interesting because these choices are very personal.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, exactly. You can't prescribe this to another family. Some people, they couldn't stand being away from home for so long. And I feel blessed that it worked for him. But I could never have done the choice myself that he's done. I could never have been the one to be away from home every day. Now I'm away because of travel that's different, but I don't have another home. And so, again, even in our family, it's very personal. The choice he made, I couldn't have done it. But we did it together.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, and it comes back to knowing yourself and knowing your couple, your relationship, how that works. And it strikes me in many of the things you said so far in the interview that you're really a full-on person. So when you're there, you're fully on. And then you kind of are also able to disconnect and be fully off, I think, both in work and in the family.
- Speaker #1
Absolutely. That's one of my best secrets, I think. If you know how to switch on, switch off immediately, I think it's fantastic. And I think that's one of my secret weapons.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. But I think some of these things are things we learn over time as well, aren't they? What things have you learned over time, you know, through the highs and the lows of your career?
- Speaker #1
Oh, wow. That's a big topic. Let me talk about a defining moment or a lesson I learned when I almost missed out on my biggest career opportunity and what I learned from it. You know, I think that my learning is that it's not who you are that's holding you back. It's who you think you're not. And this story is linked to my last P&G promotion. to lead the professional business when it didn't even occur to me that I was ready for it. And it took someone else to believe in me and tell me that. So here's what happened. As I was getting ready to leave for the autumn school break with my family, I think we went to the Maldives this time. Adil Beboukhan, who was my then boss, told me, OK, I'm leaving P&G for a great opportunity in another company. He was becoming CEO of Luxottica. And he said, okay, we will discuss the succession plan and how we will make it work when you're back. So during my vacation... I swear to you, Ruth, I had done all the possible permutations on how he could manage the business and team after he left. But it never did even occur to me that I could fully take over from him. And yet it's exactly what happened. So when I got back, he called me in the office and he told me, OK, so now you're going to be my successor. And he told me all the reasons why he thought I was the right person for the job. And then only I could see it. And so to that day, I feel really grateful. Because he believed in me more than I believe in myself. And I would have missed just on the best opportunity, just because I didn't see myself perfectly ready for that full role yet. So when I was doing all this permutation, I said, you know, I don't know this. So maybe we could delegate the operations to that.
- Speaker #0
But,
- Speaker #1
you know, we often have a somewhat distorted view of ourselves and our capability. And I think it's especially true for women. and I'm not saying you should be arrogant and think way too high of yourself, but number one, you know, look at your male peers and then, you know, benchmark a little bit from that side. And then base also your self-assessment in some reality check like feedback. And so yes, healthy self-assessment, but check outside because your bosses and your peers will also be. more aware sometimes of your own strength than yourself. So, you know, that's one of the big lessons I've learned. And so no longer ever will I doubt myself when somebody puts an opportunity in front of me to think I'm not ready for it.
- Speaker #0
And have you, like, learning from that lesson you talked about, you know, you... getting some outside perspective, how have you intentionally developed a support structure for yourself in terms of maybe mentors or sponsors or people who you can get honest feedback from, but also support?
- Speaker #1
So the irony of this anecdote I'm sharing with you and this big lesson is that generally, I'm a very confident person. So I definitely... have a support system. But even that self-doubt came from a very confident person. So that's why I want to stress how important the question that you're asking me is. Because yes, you need that healthy mirror and all these sponsors and mentors and feedback loops that help you actually realize your full potential. And so in my case, I've had many mentors, but in a more informal way. You know, I'm very, I really like, you know, organic fluid relationships. So I've had, you know, many people I've looked up to and asked for advice, not just one. I also, and I think that's one of the... wonders of P&G and having a career in P&G is I've always scaled very strong relationship with former colleagues bosses and direct reports because that creates your network and it's so precious and I also love to actually learn by watching I've always been fascinating by I know in P&G we say you really learn by experiencing and doing which is so true But I think I became really good at learning by watching, you know, what people are brilliant at and then copying them. And when I saw things which were not so good, try to actually not replicate the same things. And so I think by this learning by watching, it kind of also helped me realize, actually, that strength that I have in that field as I look around and watch. Wow, I think it's a secret weapon that I have. It's a superpower. So I think this kind of like learning also by watching has been a very fundamental way for me to learn over the years.
- Speaker #0
And it's interesting this learning by watching, learning from other people, but also developing and clarifying your own style. You know, what would you say your leadership style is?
- Speaker #1
So I've been fortunate to work with great leaders as my bosses, as my teammates, as my peers, even as my direct reports. Um, I would say today I aspire to embody what I like to call the 3H leadership. I'm not saying I'm perfect at it, but I think it starts to become now what I aspire to be as a leader. So 3H, first H for lead with the head, lead with the hands, but also lead with the heart. So let me explain a little bit what I, and I believe that there's no reason why you should trade off one over the others. There should be no reason why. one has as a leader to compromise. That has become my leadership philosophy, if you want. So lead with a head. It's about the importance of understanding your landscape. It's about having a compelling vision, a compelling purpose, a compelling set of goals, and then a clearly defined and choiceful business strategy. So that's the rational part, if you want. But then I think you need to complement it with a pragmatic part, which is the ability to lead with the hands. to show accountability and mastery in what you do, to be close to the field, close to the trenches. And as a leader, even when you're high in the hierarchy, to be willing to contribute to the team and have skin in the game. And then the last H, lead with a heart. It's all about the ability to connect with your consumer and customers, to have deep relationships and the talent to attract, engage, retain.
- Speaker #0
mobilize your team and so somehow I would say that that has become my leadership philosophy and I see that yeah it makes total sense because I also see it even from the outside I do know some people who've worked with you and for you and so on as well but the the ability to be you're extremely smart and really engaging the the the rational as you say the kind of how are we going to do this what's the best strategy with being hands-on and getting things done, moving to action and also engaging people, engaging people and both, as you say, the customers, the consumers, in your case, also the hairdressers and all of that world. And, you know, you're all going to, you know, the people you work with every day. So I see it from the outside and I, and I, I think it's a very simple way of remembering it.
- Speaker #1
So thank you.
- Speaker #0
Thank you. I want to, as we come to a close, ask you a bit about your passion and your purpose. And you've touched on it a little bit, that you are passionate about supporting other women in business. What is your, yeah, tell us about your purpose and what's on your heart there?
- Speaker #1
So this is one which is, it's never easy to do. And again, it's over the years that you realize, you know, where is this all leading to? And so at this stage, I would say my personal purpose is to help and inspire people in general, but specifically my sisters in business, to thrive personally and professionally. And I want to champion them and the broader society to believe that women can have it all. And, you know, I think it's Emily Chang was saying, like, to find your purpose, you need to anchor it on something that annoys you deeply. You need to be really angry about something so that your energy comes also from a place of annoyance. and personally I I'm pissed off when the common wisdom to can we have it all is no. I want to say yes. And the reason I'm annoyed and even angry at this question is that first, it's only being asked to one gender, women. And second, it almost sounds like, should we have it all? Like if there was a price to pay for having a career and life, like if it was immoral to be fulfilled. And so it annoys me. So my personal purpose is really to inspire people to thrive professionally and personally. And I have to admit that that purpose of championing women to thrive actually only started to ignite me maybe 10, 15 years ago, because
- Speaker #0
I was socialized in my childhood and in the French culture in general to think that everything was possible, you know, that I could have it all. And both my parents were working when I started in PNG. I was surrounded by great women, great mentors who had a successful family and a great career. And then I moved to Geneva for a European role and my world expanded. And I got exposed to different cultures and nationality, and I came to realize that not everyone has had the chance to be raised in a culture which broadly saw equal for men and women. And so helping women thrive and being a passionate advocate for women became a burning passion of mine.
- Speaker #1
And so what do you see as being possible if we, because... Okay, I'll tell you where I'm coming from. I mean, I am also passionate about this, as you know, in general, I'm passionate about people living fulfilled lives, because I believe that when people are really working from their strengths and their passion, they also make a huge contribution. And the thing that annoys me, that gets me angry is seeing people limited either by their circumstances or by themselves. and I'm just curious for you, you know, what's the end game that you see? What becomes possible when we release this talent which is kind of held back by some kind of limiting belief, maybe of society or themselves or the culture that they're in?
- Speaker #0
So I think fundamentally the concept is that when you, I like to say, when you show your true colours, when you're being your authentic self, When you're full on on who you are, you have your maximum energy, but also you encourage others to be the same. And you create an empowering environment where people can combine their strengths. And at the end, you promote synergistic outcomes. So essentially, you know, we talk about the return on investment. For me, it's fundamentally about the return on the human capital, the return on the person. And so I'm with you that. we need to remove the barriers that get in the way, the one that we put on ourselves, and I did that myself as well, like I shared with you, and the one that society puts on us, because then you really have the maximum return on the human capital of the world. And so I think that's fundamentally the end game. And I would say generally, you know, this. I would say the minorities have it harder to be fully unleashed, to have their potential fully unleashed as a result of the pressure society puts and the bias society has. But unfortunately, one minority which is equal, which suffers exactly the same, is women in general. And so I'm full on all the inclusion. and the diversity challenges that the world has. I'm also a passionate advocate of inclusion in general, and I'm an ally for LGBT+, and I absolutely believe every human are born and should be raised equal. So I'm profoundly supportive also of diversity and minorities in general. But the one that I have at heart, is women because I think it's shocking that the world is wasting so much talent by not leveraging in an equal way a 50-50 workforce at the entry to a 50-50 workforce at the top in every aspect. And so ultimately, it's about maximizing the human capital of all the good things that that humans can bring to the world.
- Speaker #1
Absolutely. So I'm going to be very intrigued to watch what's going to happen next in your career. And I know that, you know, I'm going to be watching from where I am and I hope that we stay in touch. Just as we close, what do you feel are one or two leadership principles that we all need to... apply as we move into the future?
- Speaker #0
So I've just talked about one, which is maximizing the human potential by embracing equality. But another one which is more topical in the current context is to realize that as our lives have seen a sudden, unpredictable and really overwhelming change with the pandemic, it's clear that it will leave a profound impact on society and on the economy. And we need to, as leaders in our lives, in our communities, in our companies, to take the opportunity it represents to shift to the better overall. And I'm hopeful that we all race to the challenge to build back better, to not go back to where we came from, but to use this opportunity to create a more sustainable, a more inclusive, a more equitable environment and society for all. And so, you know, I think it's the Nobel Prize winner, Wangari Mantai, that said that in the course of history, there comes a time when humanity is called a... upon to shift to a new level of consciousness and i think it's this moment where we need to reach a higher moral ground all leaders in politics in economy in business in our communities in our family and the time is now so a challenge is there for all of us thank
- Speaker #1
you so much sylvie for your for your time and for your for your wisdom thank you for coming on the podcast and i look forward to speaking to you again very soon
- Speaker #0
Thank you, Ruth. I really enjoyed our conversation. And I do hope that some of these tips and experience will help our audience along the way in their path to success and to a fulfilling life.
- Speaker #1
What was your favourite part of this interview? I loved it when Sylvie talked about aspiring to 3H leadership, leading with head, hands and heart. And when I think about it, it's true that the most compelling leaders I know lead with all three. And it's a great reminder to me and I hope to you to be more conscious and consistent about doing that. I also loved her story about almost missing the opportunity for the biggest promotion of her career because she didn't see herself as ready. Remember, she said, it's not who you are that's holding you back. It's who you think you're not. And I'm curious. Where might your beliefs about who you're not be holding you back? Who can help you to see more clearly who you are? But I want to leave you with Sylvie's encouragement to keep showing up with your true colors. Because when you're being your authentic self, you not only show up with maximum energy, but you also encourage others to do the same. I call this leading from your core. I hope you enjoyed this interview and if you did, please do subscribe to the podcast so that you can hear more stories to inspire, encourage and equip you on your own leadership journey. I also want to offer you the opportunity as we approach the midpoint of 2021 to step back and reflect on your year so far so that you can make some intentional choices about how you want to adjust your course for the second half. I'll be running three free mid-year check-in workshops online. over the 29th and the 30th of June, which you can sign up for on my website, yourpathtosuccess.ch forward slash events. By the way, I called it a check-in rather than a review because I find that for many of us, the word mid-year review triggers thoughts about performance reviews and takes us to a very self-critical and non-resourceful place. Whereas this workshop is a place for, yes, it's a place for review and analysis with our heads. But I also want to give space, a resourceful space for the heart as we reflect on where we felt connection with the core of who we are and with our purposes and where we've maybe felt disconnection and to start exploring what's going on there. And finally, there's also a hands part too. as we start to create an action plan and some choices for how to move forward and how to course correct as appropriate. So do consider joining me on one of those sessions for the 29th and the 30th. And until the next time, keep showing up powerfully and leading the movement.
