🇬🇧 🐴 Pilates and the Vagus Nerve: Equine and Human Nervous Co-Regulation | 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive

Description

How deeply do you connect with your horse? In this enlightening episode of 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive, Caroline Berger de Fémynie invites you to explore the fascinating interplay between humans and horses through the lens of biological and neurological science. Join us as we unravel the extraordinary story of Gandor, a purebred Arabian horse whose remarkable ability to sense the emotional state of his rider opens a window into the intricate communication made possible by the vagus nerve.

Discover how physiological responses play a crucial role in establishing trust and connection between horse and rider. As we delve into the nuances of equine behavior, you'll learn that a horse's actions are often a mirror reflecting the internal state of its rider. This profound understanding can transform your riding experience, enhancing not just performance but also the emotional bond you share with your horse.

Throughout this episode, we introduce the groundbreaking work of Dr. Stephen Porges and his polyvagal theory, which distinguishes between two pathways of the vagus nerve: the dorsal vagal pathway, which is associated with immobilization under stress, and the ventral vagal pathway, linked to social engagement and connection. Understanding these pathways is essential for any rider seeking to foster a deeper, more harmonious relationship with their equine partner.

But how can you apply this knowledge in practical terms? Our hosts discuss how integrating practices like Pilates can significantly enhance your nervous system regulation, leading to more effective communication and performance with your horse. By cultivating internal stability and prioritizing co-regulation, you can create a safe and trusting environment for both yourself and your horse.

This episode is not just about riding; it's a call to deepen your connection with your horse through conscious movement and awareness. As you listen, you'll find yourself inspired to reflect on the intricate relationship you share with these majestic animals and the vital role your own emotional state plays in that dynamic. Tune in and embark on a journey toward greater understanding, trust, and connection in your equestrian pursuits.

Join us in this captivating exploration of the human-horse bond, and discover how the principles of 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive can transform not only your riding but also your life.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today, we're on a mission, and honestly, it's inspired by one of the most unusual sources we've ever come across.
Speaker #1
It really is. We're talking about an intimate interview that details the life and, well, the wisdom of a purebred Arabian horse named Gandor.
Speaker #0
Exactly. And the insights he provided basically unlock this invisible science behind trust, connection, and what you might call interspecies calm.
Speaker #1
It's the perfect launch pad for this deep dive because the core observation, the thing that grounds all the science we're about to get into, is actually really simple but profound.
Speaker #0
Lay it on us.
Speaker #1
Gandor would visibly change his physiological state. I mean, his breathing would lengthen, his eyes would soften, that huge neck of his would just relax.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
The instant his rider approached his stall, before she even laid a hand on him, no command, no touch, nothing.
Speaker #0
That's incredible. We're talking about a prey animal, right? An animal with this built-in... hypervigilant nervous system, and it's instantly decoding a human's internal state. So right away, we can throw out the idea that this is just, you know, some fuzzy emotional bond or conditioning.
Speaker #1
Oh, completely. The question we have to answer is, what is the biological mechanism? What is the invisible science that lets an animal perceive and adapt so deeply to a human's nervous state?
Speaker #0
So we're using this horse-human relationship to map out the science of calm.
Speaker #1
Precisely. And it is a complete physiological phenomenon. The horse is just exquisitely tuned to these tiny unconscious cues. Your breathing rhythm, little shifts in your posture, the tension in your jaw.
Speaker #0
Things I don't even know I'm doing.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And the master conductor orchestrating this entire silent symphony is the vagus nerve.
Speaker #0
The vagus nerve. The famous or infamous 10th cranial nerve.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
This feels like our shortcut to finally understanding what it actually does.
Speaker #1
Well, it's usually summarized as the brake pedal on stress, right? It's the main branch of the parasympathetic system.
Speaker #0
The rest and digest system. Yeah. Or as our sources put it, the system of safety, recovery, connection.
Speaker #1
And it works to counteract the accelerator pedal, the sympathetic system, your fight or flight.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
But to really get the connection that Gandor's story illustrates, we have to start with this neurological marvel. Anatomically, it's a marathon runner.
Speaker #0
Where does it even start?
Speaker #1
It originates in three really crucial clusters in the brainstem. You've got the ambiguous nucleus, which is essential for modulating your heart rhythm, and it also controls the larynx.
Speaker #0
Ah, okay. So there's your first clue to connection right there, your tone of voice.
Speaker #1
That's it. Then there's the dorsal vagus nucleus, which mostly governs your visceral and digestive functions. And finally, the reticular formation, which organizes the whole autonomous nervous system response.
Speaker #0
So it's coming out of these core processing centers in the brain, and then it just drops down. It's a real pathway connecting the command center to the entire body.
Speaker #1
It really is. It descends through the neck, through the chest, and it's sending these vital messages to the throat. It wraps around the heart and lungs and then branches out everywhere in the digestive organs.
Speaker #0
Stomach, intestines, colon, all of it.
Speaker #1
The whole system. It dictates everything from our voice and our facial expressions. You know, think of the open, relaxed face of a person you feel safe with to the relaxed lips and the jaw mobility you see in a truly calm horse.
Speaker #0
OK, here's where it gets really interesting for me. This is where our sources just flip the script on what I thought I knew.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
If you ask most people what the vagus nerve does, they'd say it's a one way command cable. The brain is the CEO sending orders down to the body saying, hey. Be calm. Slow down.
Speaker #1
And that narrative, while it's simple, it's just deeply misleading. That top-down control, that's only 20% of the nerve's activity. Okay,
Speaker #0
but what do you mean by 20%?
Speaker #1
The critical discovery, the thing that's central to this whole horse-rider bond, is that a whopping 80% of the vagus nerve fibers are affrent.
Speaker #0
Affent. Okay. Which means they send information from the body back up to the brain.
Speaker #1
Yes. Exactly. It completely reverses the traditional corporate hierarchy of the nervous system.
Speaker #0
So the body is the one reporting in. It's not taking orders.
Speaker #1
The body is the primary source of safety information. It's informing the mind about what's going on, not the other way around. Think of it as this huge, highly efficient surveillance system operating below your neck.
Speaker #0
And it's constantly sending status reports.
Speaker #1
Constantly asking, is the heart beating freely? Is my breath unblocked? Is the digestive system working?
Speaker #0
So if I walk up to Gandor... feeling stressed, my brain, my conscious mind might be telling itself, I'm fine, I'm happy to see him. But those 80% of afferent fibers are sending a very, very different message upstairs. My gut is basically texting my head, warning, tension detected, diaphragm is rigid, internal threat level is high.
Speaker #1
That's a perfect way to put it. And when the brain gets those signals reporting internal distress, it has no choice but to conclude we are not secure, we have to stay vigilant.
Speaker #0
And the horse, this master reader of body language, feels that lack of security. Immediately.
Speaker #1
Instantly. This tells us security isn't some mental concept you just decide on. It is a biological embodied reality signaled by those afferent nerves.
Speaker #0
And to understand that embodied reality, we have to talk about Dr. Stephen Porges and his polyvagal theory.
Speaker #1
Yes.
Speaker #0
I mean, the vagus nerve is just the calm down system. Why did Porges feel the need to identify two completely different pathways within it?
Speaker #1
Because the old model, you know, simple fight, flight, arrest. It just didn't explain everything. It didn't explain why people, or horses for that matter, sometimes just completely shut down when they're under threat. Quarters showed that the vagus nerve isn't a single on-off switch. It has two distinct, evolutionarily different pathways that determine how we react to stress and how we seek safety.
Speaker #0
Let's start with the darker path then, the older one.
Speaker #1
That would be the dorsal vagal pathway. This is the oldest, most primitive path, the one we share with reptiles. It's activated under extreme inescapable stress.
Speaker #0
And what does it do?
Speaker #1
Its function is total immobilization. It's the classic playing dead response. When this gets activated, the body essentially unplugs. Heart rate plummets, respiration slows right down, and you often get psychological dissociation.
Speaker #0
And Gander's story highlights this. A horse standing perfectly still might look calm.
Speaker #1
Right. Compliant.
Speaker #0
But if the dorsal vagal pathway is running the show, it's not calm at all. It's frozen. It's absent. The sources call it crushed nervously.
Speaker #1
It's survival mode disguised as obedience. A crucial distinction for anyone working with animals or, frankly, in any high-stress relationship.
Speaker #0
It's the last resort.
Speaker #1
The ultimate survival fallback. But, thankfully, we have the newer system, the ventral vagal pathway. This is the myelinated, faster, more sophisticated pathway that's unique to social mammals.
Speaker #0
Okay, so this is the good stuff.
Speaker #1
This is the good stuff. Its function is trust, relationship, engagement. and most importantly, connection.
Speaker #0
So when riders talk about that deep connection, or I'm really feeling them today, they are biologically describing the simultaneous activation of their own ventral vagal pathway and the horse's.
Speaker #1
Yes. It's not some fuzzy emotional concept. It is neurophysiological synchronicity. It's a shared biological agreement that says we are safe together.
Speaker #0
So when that ventral vagus is online, our whole system changes.
Speaker #1
Exactly. Your vocal tone softens, your facial muscles engage for social interaction, your heart becomes flexible. This whole combination of signals is what Porges calls the social engagement system.
Speaker #0
Which leads us perfectly into the specific barometers the vagus nerve uses to communicate that safety. And let's start with the heart.
Speaker #1
The heart is the grand conductor here. The vagus nerve slows the heart rate, sure, but the more important piece is that it increases something called VFC, or heart rate variability.
Speaker #0
Right. And this needs a great analogy.
Speaker #1
It does. So VFC is the flexibility of the timing between your heartbeats. If your heart is beating like a rigid metronome tick, tick, tick, you have low VFC.
Speaker #0
Which means the system is locked down in stress.
Speaker #1
Locked down. But if the timing between beats subtly varies, if it adapts second to second, that's high VFC.
Speaker #0
Our sources use the image of a rubber band versus a brittle stick. The rubber band is high VFC. It's resilient. It can streck and snap back.
Speaker #1
Whereas the brittle stick, low VFC, just snaps under the slightest pressure.
Speaker #0
So that flexibility, that high VFC, is the literal physical signal of resilience the horse's nervous system is looking for.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. The sources confirm it. The horse senses the rider's VFC. When a rider achieves that internal state of flexible, high VFC, the horse feels a literal signal of safety. It's your heart telling the horse's entire body, I am stable. The world is safe. you can relax.
Speaker #0
And then there's respiration, which is maybe the most direct key we have to regulating our own vagus nerve.
Speaker #1
It's the one we can consciously control. Slow, long expiration directly stimulates the vagus nerve.
Speaker #0
The exhale is the key.
Speaker #1
The exhale is the key. When a rider takes a slow, deep breath and really focuses on a long, extended exhale, the parasympathetic system immediately starts to take over. And crucially, this changes the rhythm, the weight, and the movement of the rider's chest and core.
Speaker #0
And the horse feels that pressure change instantly. Through the saddle, through his back muscles. It's not about the words you say. It's about the nervous rhythm behind them.
Speaker #1
A breath held high in the chest signals panic. A breath that sinks low and is released slowly signals grounding.
Speaker #0
And finally, we have to talk about digestion.
Speaker #1
Can't ignore it. The vagus nerve is the main regulator of the entire digestive tract. When a human or a horse is stressed, what happens? All the resources are diverted to the limbs for fight or flight.
Speaker #0
And digestion shuts down.
Speaker #1
Shuts down. Which is why you see things like ulcers and blockages so often in high-stress sport horses.
Speaker #0
But the signs of recovery, the signs that digestion is coming back online, are so telling.
Speaker #1
They are. When you see a horse give a deep yawn or start chewing. licking its lips, or when you hear its belly gurgling loudly.
Speaker #0
That's not just psychological relaxation.
Speaker #1
Not at all. That is pure physiological parasympathetic activation. The digestive system is coming back online. It's physical proof that the body has concluded the danger has passed. Those are the metrics of the vagus nerve getting back to work.
Speaker #0
So if we put all of these signals together, the heart's flexibility, the breath, the digestion, it all leads to this idea of co-regulation.
Speaker #1
Yes. Co-regulation. It's the agreement between two nervous systems. It's like two instruments tuning themselves to play the same note.
Speaker #0
And the critical rule, the one our sources just hammered home again and again.
Speaker #1
Is that the rider's nervous state always influences and sculpts the horse's state. Second by second. There's no escaping it.
Speaker #0
So let's make that real. If I show up at the barn and I'm stressed, I'm running late, my breath is high, my shoulders are tight.
Speaker #1
A state we now know as a deactivated ventral vagus.
Speaker #0
Right. The horse perceives me as a biological threat. Even if I'm speaking softly, trying to be kind, my internal system is just screaming danger.
Speaker #1
That is exactly the dynamic. The horse's first line of defense isn't technical, it's nervous. The horse's body physically cannot achieve that supple, cooperative state we want if it senses the rider system is stuck in survival mode.
Speaker #0
So it has to defend itself.
Speaker #1
It must, above all else.
Speaker #0
This just fundamentally redefines what training is even about. It means the horse... Followed nervous coherence, not just technical orders.
Speaker #1
You could have the most beautifully positioned hands and legs in the world. But if your internal system is reporting tension, the horse receives the tension, not the request.
Speaker #0
So performance, fluidity, security, it all hinges on the shared nervous state that the pair co-constructs.
Speaker #1
A stable, deep-breathing rider provides a nervous system reference that is so robust and clear that the horse just naturally tunes into it. You're not demanding cooperation. You are offering biological security.
Speaker #0
Which brings us to the practical part. How do we as humans become that reference point? How do we actually activate our vagus nerve and train ourselves for safety so the horse can follow?
Speaker #1
Well, first we have to know what we're looking for. The recovery signs in the horse.
Speaker #0
Right, the physical proof.
Speaker #1
We need to be looking for those specific things. The long, deep sigh, the vibrating or licking of the lips, the chewing, the lowered head. those slow, heavy eye blinks, and of course, the audible stomach gurgling.
Speaker #0
Those are the goals, the measurable physical goals of nervous system work.
Speaker #1
They are. And this is where something like body work comes in, and it plays an absolutely central role.
Speaker #0
The sources highlight things like Ayurvedic massage and specialized osteopathy. And they're not just for muscle soreness.
Speaker #1
No, they are essential tools for what they call vagal re-education.
Speaker #0
Re-education. I like that.
Speaker #1
It's the key term. These practices act on deep structures. like the diaphragm, the intercostals, those muscles between the ribs, and the fascia around the organs. Oxyopathy especially focuses on liberating the diaphragm and the ribs.
Speaker #0
And since the vagus nerve passes right through there.
Speaker #1
Liberating that area literally allows the nerve to regain its freedom. It helps reorganize those vital 80% of afferent sensory channels.
Speaker #0
So by physically releasing tension in my chest and my core, I'm actually changing the quality of the information my body is sending to my brain about its own safety status.
Speaker #1
You're changing the report. Exactly. And the same principle applies to the writer's own training. The sources make this amazing connection to Pilates.
Speaker #0
Why Pilates specifically?
Speaker #1
Because it's one of the only disciplines that simultaneously addresses all the key regulators. You've got lateral thoracic breathing, you have spinal mobility, core stability, and internal attention all at once.
Speaker #0
That lateral thoracic breathing, the breathing into the sides of the ribs. That forces the diaphragm to descend.
Speaker #1
Which directly stimulates the vagal baroreceptors in your chest and arteries. A rider who consistently practices this isn't just physically fitter, they are more nervously regulated. They have higher VFC, deeper, quieter respiration.
Speaker #0
And here's the co-regulation loop made tangible.
Speaker #1
This is it. The rider's consistent Pilates training becomes the horse's nervous training. When the rider achieves that core stability and depth of breath, it provides such a clear... clear, stable reference that the horse's own system just adapts to it.
Speaker #0
When the rider's diaphragm moves freely, the horse's diaphragm finds the space to relax and breathe better too.
Speaker #1
It's a physical conversation.
Speaker #0
And I think the biggest takeaway, the one confirmed by Gander's own incredible recovery from a high-stress racing career, is this idea of vagal plasticity.
Speaker #1
That's so helpful. The vagus nerve isn't a fixed circuit. It can be strengthened, it can be rebuilt, re-educated at any age, any level.
Speaker #0
Consistent routine, deep breathing. Coherent Interaction. They rebuild biological safety from the ground up. It proves that foundation of connection is always accessible to us.
Speaker #1
So if we synthesize this entire deep dive, the ultimate lesson is this. A horse doesn't demand technical perfection from you. It demands regulation and presence.
Speaker #0
It doesn't seek a strong rider.
Speaker #1
It seeks a safe rider. And security isn't a positive thought. It's a verifiable nervous state that you build before you ever touch the stirrup, starting with these internal practices like deep breathing and grounding.
Speaker #0
So the true art of riding, and really the true art of navigating any deeply interconnected relationship, is co-constructing a shared state of nervous safety.
Speaker #1
That's the whole game.
Speaker #0
Our sources, through the quiet wisdom of a horse, show us the pathway to that internal stability. So what simple daily action, a focus on a long, deliberate exhalation, a moment of internal stillness and stability, could you practice today to activate your ventral vagus and fundamentally change the quality of connection you have with the world around you? The co-regulation, as we've learned, always begins inside.

About 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive

Studio Biopilates Paris is France's only STOTT PILATES course hosting center, offering sixteen years of expertise in this world-renowned Pilates method. STOTT PILATES is described as a modern approach based on biomechanics and rehabilitation while respecting Joseph Pilates's original principles. Caroline Berger de Fémynie, founder of the studio Biopilates Paris, has been the only instructor authorized in France since 2008 to train other STOTT PILATES instructors. The success of this method is based on its scientific approach, versatility, international recognition, and respect for the Pilates heritage.

Le Studio Biopilates Paris est le seul centre de formation STOTT PILATES en France, offrant une expertise de seize ans dans cette méthode de Pilates mondialement reconnue. STOTT PILATES est décrite comme une approche moderne, basée sur la biomécanique et la rééducation, tout en respectant les principes originaux de Joseph Pilates. Caroline Berger de Fémynie, fondatrice de Fémynie, est l'unique instructrice habilitée en France depuis 2008 à former d'autres instructeurs STOTT PILATES. Le succès de cette méthode repose sur son approche scientifique, sa polyvalence, sa reconnaissance internationale et son respect de l'héritage du Pilates.

English : Steeve Pitt and Anabela Wilson Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

French : Sébastien Flaurent et Claire Brunel Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

Italien : Margaux Cangini - Instructor Stott Pilates

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive

English : Steeve Pitt and Anabela Wilson Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

French : Sébastien Flaurent et Claire Brunel Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

Italien : Margaux Cangini - Instructor Stott Pilates

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

Join us in this captivating exploration of the human-horse bond, and discover how the principles of 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive can transform not only your riding but also your life.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today, we're on a mission, and honestly, it's inspired by one of the most unusual sources we've ever come across.
Speaker #1
It really is. We're talking about an intimate interview that details the life and, well, the wisdom of a purebred Arabian horse named Gandor.
Speaker #0
Exactly. And the insights he provided basically unlock this invisible science behind trust, connection, and what you might call interspecies calm.
Speaker #1
It's the perfect launch pad for this deep dive because the core observation, the thing that grounds all the science we're about to get into, is actually really simple but profound.
Speaker #0
Lay it on us.
Speaker #1
Gandor would visibly change his physiological state. I mean, his breathing would lengthen, his eyes would soften, that huge neck of his would just relax.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
The instant his rider approached his stall, before she even laid a hand on him, no command, no touch, nothing.
Speaker #0
That's incredible. We're talking about a prey animal, right? An animal with this built-in... hypervigilant nervous system, and it's instantly decoding a human's internal state. So right away, we can throw out the idea that this is just, you know, some fuzzy emotional bond or conditioning.
Speaker #1
Oh, completely. The question we have to answer is, what is the biological mechanism? What is the invisible science that lets an animal perceive and adapt so deeply to a human's nervous state?
Speaker #0
So we're using this horse-human relationship to map out the science of calm.
Speaker #1
Precisely. And it is a complete physiological phenomenon. The horse is just exquisitely tuned to these tiny unconscious cues. Your breathing rhythm, little shifts in your posture, the tension in your jaw.
Speaker #0
Things I don't even know I'm doing.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And the master conductor orchestrating this entire silent symphony is the vagus nerve.
Speaker #0
The vagus nerve. The famous or infamous 10th cranial nerve.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
This feels like our shortcut to finally understanding what it actually does.
Speaker #1
Well, it's usually summarized as the brake pedal on stress, right? It's the main branch of the parasympathetic system.
Speaker #0
The rest and digest system. Yeah. Or as our sources put it, the system of safety, recovery, connection.
Speaker #1
And it works to counteract the accelerator pedal, the sympathetic system, your fight or flight.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
But to really get the connection that Gandor's story illustrates, we have to start with this neurological marvel. Anatomically, it's a marathon runner.
Speaker #0
Where does it even start?
Speaker #1
It originates in three really crucial clusters in the brainstem. You've got the ambiguous nucleus, which is essential for modulating your heart rhythm, and it also controls the larynx.
Speaker #0
Ah, okay. So there's your first clue to connection right there, your tone of voice.
Speaker #1
That's it. Then there's the dorsal vagus nucleus, which mostly governs your visceral and digestive functions. And finally, the reticular formation, which organizes the whole autonomous nervous system response.
Speaker #0
So it's coming out of these core processing centers in the brain, and then it just drops down. It's a real pathway connecting the command center to the entire body.
Speaker #1
It really is. It descends through the neck, through the chest, and it's sending these vital messages to the throat. It wraps around the heart and lungs and then branches out everywhere in the digestive organs.
Speaker #0
Stomach, intestines, colon, all of it.
Speaker #1
The whole system. It dictates everything from our voice and our facial expressions. You know, think of the open, relaxed face of a person you feel safe with to the relaxed lips and the jaw mobility you see in a truly calm horse.
Speaker #0
OK, here's where it gets really interesting for me. This is where our sources just flip the script on what I thought I knew.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
If you ask most people what the vagus nerve does, they'd say it's a one way command cable. The brain is the CEO sending orders down to the body saying, hey. Be calm. Slow down.
Speaker #1
And that narrative, while it's simple, it's just deeply misleading. That top-down control, that's only 20% of the nerve's activity. Okay,
Speaker #0
but what do you mean by 20%?
Speaker #1
The critical discovery, the thing that's central to this whole horse-rider bond, is that a whopping 80% of the vagus nerve fibers are affrent.
Speaker #0
Affent. Okay. Which means they send information from the body back up to the brain.
Speaker #1
Yes. Exactly. It completely reverses the traditional corporate hierarchy of the nervous system.
Speaker #0
So the body is the one reporting in. It's not taking orders.
Speaker #1
The body is the primary source of safety information. It's informing the mind about what's going on, not the other way around. Think of it as this huge, highly efficient surveillance system operating below your neck.
Speaker #0
And it's constantly sending status reports.
Speaker #1
Constantly asking, is the heart beating freely? Is my breath unblocked? Is the digestive system working?
Speaker #0
So if I walk up to Gandor... feeling stressed, my brain, my conscious mind might be telling itself, I'm fine, I'm happy to see him. But those 80% of afferent fibers are sending a very, very different message upstairs. My gut is basically texting my head, warning, tension detected, diaphragm is rigid, internal threat level is high.
Speaker #1
That's a perfect way to put it. And when the brain gets those signals reporting internal distress, it has no choice but to conclude we are not secure, we have to stay vigilant.
Speaker #0
And the horse, this master reader of body language, feels that lack of security. Immediately.
Speaker #1
Instantly. This tells us security isn't some mental concept you just decide on. It is a biological embodied reality signaled by those afferent nerves.
Speaker #0
And to understand that embodied reality, we have to talk about Dr. Stephen Porges and his polyvagal theory.
Speaker #1
Yes.
Speaker #0
I mean, the vagus nerve is just the calm down system. Why did Porges feel the need to identify two completely different pathways within it?
Speaker #1
Because the old model, you know, simple fight, flight, arrest. It just didn't explain everything. It didn't explain why people, or horses for that matter, sometimes just completely shut down when they're under threat. Quarters showed that the vagus nerve isn't a single on-off switch. It has two distinct, evolutionarily different pathways that determine how we react to stress and how we seek safety.
Speaker #0
Let's start with the darker path then, the older one.
Speaker #1
That would be the dorsal vagal pathway. This is the oldest, most primitive path, the one we share with reptiles. It's activated under extreme inescapable stress.
Speaker #0
And what does it do?
Speaker #1
Its function is total immobilization. It's the classic playing dead response. When this gets activated, the body essentially unplugs. Heart rate plummets, respiration slows right down, and you often get psychological dissociation.
Speaker #0
And Gander's story highlights this. A horse standing perfectly still might look calm.
Speaker #1
Right. Compliant.
Speaker #0
But if the dorsal vagal pathway is running the show, it's not calm at all. It's frozen. It's absent. The sources call it crushed nervously.
Speaker #1
It's survival mode disguised as obedience. A crucial distinction for anyone working with animals or, frankly, in any high-stress relationship.
Speaker #0
It's the last resort.
Speaker #1
The ultimate survival fallback. But, thankfully, we have the newer system, the ventral vagal pathway. This is the myelinated, faster, more sophisticated pathway that's unique to social mammals.
Speaker #0
Okay, so this is the good stuff.
Speaker #1
This is the good stuff. Its function is trust, relationship, engagement. and most importantly, connection.
Speaker #0
So when riders talk about that deep connection, or I'm really feeling them today, they are biologically describing the simultaneous activation of their own ventral vagal pathway and the horse's.
Speaker #1
Yes. It's not some fuzzy emotional concept. It is neurophysiological synchronicity. It's a shared biological agreement that says we are safe together.
Speaker #0
So when that ventral vagus is online, our whole system changes.
Speaker #1
Exactly. Your vocal tone softens, your facial muscles engage for social interaction, your heart becomes flexible. This whole combination of signals is what Porges calls the social engagement system.
Speaker #0
Which leads us perfectly into the specific barometers the vagus nerve uses to communicate that safety. And let's start with the heart.
Speaker #1
The heart is the grand conductor here. The vagus nerve slows the heart rate, sure, but the more important piece is that it increases something called VFC, or heart rate variability.
Speaker #0
Right. And this needs a great analogy.
Speaker #1
It does. So VFC is the flexibility of the timing between your heartbeats. If your heart is beating like a rigid metronome tick, tick, tick, you have low VFC.
Speaker #0
Which means the system is locked down in stress.
Speaker #1
Locked down. But if the timing between beats subtly varies, if it adapts second to second, that's high VFC.
Speaker #0
Our sources use the image of a rubber band versus a brittle stick. The rubber band is high VFC. It's resilient. It can streck and snap back.
Speaker #1
Whereas the brittle stick, low VFC, just snaps under the slightest pressure.
Speaker #0
So that flexibility, that high VFC, is the literal physical signal of resilience the horse's nervous system is looking for.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. The sources confirm it. The horse senses the rider's VFC. When a rider achieves that internal state of flexible, high VFC, the horse feels a literal signal of safety. It's your heart telling the horse's entire body, I am stable. The world is safe. you can relax.
Speaker #0
And then there's respiration, which is maybe the most direct key we have to regulating our own vagus nerve.
Speaker #1
It's the one we can consciously control. Slow, long expiration directly stimulates the vagus nerve.
Speaker #0
The exhale is the key.
Speaker #1
The exhale is the key. When a rider takes a slow, deep breath and really focuses on a long, extended exhale, the parasympathetic system immediately starts to take over. And crucially, this changes the rhythm, the weight, and the movement of the rider's chest and core.
Speaker #0
And the horse feels that pressure change instantly. Through the saddle, through his back muscles. It's not about the words you say. It's about the nervous rhythm behind them.
Speaker #1
A breath held high in the chest signals panic. A breath that sinks low and is released slowly signals grounding.
Speaker #0
And finally, we have to talk about digestion.
Speaker #1
Can't ignore it. The vagus nerve is the main regulator of the entire digestive tract. When a human or a horse is stressed, what happens? All the resources are diverted to the limbs for fight or flight.
Speaker #0
And digestion shuts down.
Speaker #1
Shuts down. Which is why you see things like ulcers and blockages so often in high-stress sport horses.
Speaker #0
But the signs of recovery, the signs that digestion is coming back online, are so telling.
Speaker #1
They are. When you see a horse give a deep yawn or start chewing. licking its lips, or when you hear its belly gurgling loudly.
Speaker #0
That's not just psychological relaxation.
Speaker #1
Not at all. That is pure physiological parasympathetic activation. The digestive system is coming back online. It's physical proof that the body has concluded the danger has passed. Those are the metrics of the vagus nerve getting back to work.
Speaker #0
So if we put all of these signals together, the heart's flexibility, the breath, the digestion, it all leads to this idea of co-regulation.
Speaker #1
Yes. Co-regulation. It's the agreement between two nervous systems. It's like two instruments tuning themselves to play the same note.
Speaker #0
And the critical rule, the one our sources just hammered home again and again.
Speaker #1
Is that the rider's nervous state always influences and sculpts the horse's state. Second by second. There's no escaping it.
Speaker #0
So let's make that real. If I show up at the barn and I'm stressed, I'm running late, my breath is high, my shoulders are tight.
Speaker #1
A state we now know as a deactivated ventral vagus.
Speaker #0
Right. The horse perceives me as a biological threat. Even if I'm speaking softly, trying to be kind, my internal system is just screaming danger.
Speaker #1
That is exactly the dynamic. The horse's first line of defense isn't technical, it's nervous. The horse's body physically cannot achieve that supple, cooperative state we want if it senses the rider system is stuck in survival mode.
Speaker #0
So it has to defend itself.
Speaker #1
It must, above all else.
Speaker #0
This just fundamentally redefines what training is even about. It means the horse... Followed nervous coherence, not just technical orders.
Speaker #1
You could have the most beautifully positioned hands and legs in the world. But if your internal system is reporting tension, the horse receives the tension, not the request.
Speaker #0
So performance, fluidity, security, it all hinges on the shared nervous state that the pair co-constructs.
Speaker #1
A stable, deep-breathing rider provides a nervous system reference that is so robust and clear that the horse just naturally tunes into it. You're not demanding cooperation. You are offering biological security.
Speaker #0
Which brings us to the practical part. How do we as humans become that reference point? How do we actually activate our vagus nerve and train ourselves for safety so the horse can follow?
Speaker #1
Well, first we have to know what we're looking for. The recovery signs in the horse.
Speaker #0
Right, the physical proof.
Speaker #1
We need to be looking for those specific things. The long, deep sigh, the vibrating or licking of the lips, the chewing, the lowered head. those slow, heavy eye blinks, and of course, the audible stomach gurgling.
Speaker #0
Those are the goals, the measurable physical goals of nervous system work.
Speaker #1
They are. And this is where something like body work comes in, and it plays an absolutely central role.
Speaker #0
The sources highlight things like Ayurvedic massage and specialized osteopathy. And they're not just for muscle soreness.
Speaker #1
No, they are essential tools for what they call vagal re-education.
Speaker #0
Re-education. I like that.
Speaker #1
It's the key term. These practices act on deep structures. like the diaphragm, the intercostals, those muscles between the ribs, and the fascia around the organs. Oxyopathy especially focuses on liberating the diaphragm and the ribs.
Speaker #0
And since the vagus nerve passes right through there.
Speaker #1
Liberating that area literally allows the nerve to regain its freedom. It helps reorganize those vital 80% of afferent sensory channels.
Speaker #0
So by physically releasing tension in my chest and my core, I'm actually changing the quality of the information my body is sending to my brain about its own safety status.
Speaker #1
You're changing the report. Exactly. And the same principle applies to the writer's own training. The sources make this amazing connection to Pilates.
Speaker #0
Why Pilates specifically?
Speaker #1
Because it's one of the only disciplines that simultaneously addresses all the key regulators. You've got lateral thoracic breathing, you have spinal mobility, core stability, and internal attention all at once.
Speaker #0
That lateral thoracic breathing, the breathing into the sides of the ribs. That forces the diaphragm to descend.
Speaker #1
Which directly stimulates the vagal baroreceptors in your chest and arteries. A rider who consistently practices this isn't just physically fitter, they are more nervously regulated. They have higher VFC, deeper, quieter respiration.
Speaker #0
And here's the co-regulation loop made tangible.
Speaker #1
This is it. The rider's consistent Pilates training becomes the horse's nervous training. When the rider achieves that core stability and depth of breath, it provides such a clear... clear, stable reference that the horse's own system just adapts to it.
Speaker #0
When the rider's diaphragm moves freely, the horse's diaphragm finds the space to relax and breathe better too.
Speaker #1
It's a physical conversation.
Speaker #0
And I think the biggest takeaway, the one confirmed by Gander's own incredible recovery from a high-stress racing career, is this idea of vagal plasticity.
Speaker #1
That's so helpful. The vagus nerve isn't a fixed circuit. It can be strengthened, it can be rebuilt, re-educated at any age, any level.
Speaker #0
Consistent routine, deep breathing. Coherent Interaction. They rebuild biological safety from the ground up. It proves that foundation of connection is always accessible to us.
Speaker #1
So if we synthesize this entire deep dive, the ultimate lesson is this. A horse doesn't demand technical perfection from you. It demands regulation and presence.
Speaker #0
It doesn't seek a strong rider.
Speaker #1
It seeks a safe rider. And security isn't a positive thought. It's a verifiable nervous state that you build before you ever touch the stirrup, starting with these internal practices like deep breathing and grounding.
Speaker #0
So the true art of riding, and really the true art of navigating any deeply interconnected relationship, is co-constructing a shared state of nervous safety.
Speaker #1
That's the whole game.
Speaker #0
Our sources, through the quiet wisdom of a horse, show us the pathway to that internal stability. So what simple daily action, a focus on a long, deliberate exhalation, a moment of internal stillness and stability, could you practice today to activate your ventral vagus and fundamentally change the quality of connection you have with the world around you? The co-regulation, as we've learned, always begins inside.

About 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive

English : Steeve Pitt and Anabela Wilson Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

French : Sébastien Flaurent et Claire Brunel Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

Italien : Margaux Cangini - Instructor Stott Pilates

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive

English : Steeve Pitt and Anabela Wilson Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

French : Sébastien Flaurent et Claire Brunel Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

Italien : Margaux Cangini - Instructor Stott Pilates

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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Join us in this captivating exploration of the human-horse bond, and discover how the principles of 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive can transform not only your riding but also your life.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today, we're on a mission, and honestly, it's inspired by one of the most unusual sources we've ever come across.
Speaker #1
It really is. We're talking about an intimate interview that details the life and, well, the wisdom of a purebred Arabian horse named Gandor.
Speaker #0
Exactly. And the insights he provided basically unlock this invisible science behind trust, connection, and what you might call interspecies calm.
Speaker #1
It's the perfect launch pad for this deep dive because the core observation, the thing that grounds all the science we're about to get into, is actually really simple but profound.
Speaker #0
Lay it on us.
Speaker #1
Gandor would visibly change his physiological state. I mean, his breathing would lengthen, his eyes would soften, that huge neck of his would just relax.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
The instant his rider approached his stall, before she even laid a hand on him, no command, no touch, nothing.
Speaker #0
That's incredible. We're talking about a prey animal, right? An animal with this built-in... hypervigilant nervous system, and it's instantly decoding a human's internal state. So right away, we can throw out the idea that this is just, you know, some fuzzy emotional bond or conditioning.
Speaker #1
Oh, completely. The question we have to answer is, what is the biological mechanism? What is the invisible science that lets an animal perceive and adapt so deeply to a human's nervous state?
Speaker #0
So we're using this horse-human relationship to map out the science of calm.
Speaker #1
Precisely. And it is a complete physiological phenomenon. The horse is just exquisitely tuned to these tiny unconscious cues. Your breathing rhythm, little shifts in your posture, the tension in your jaw.
Speaker #0
Things I don't even know I'm doing.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And the master conductor orchestrating this entire silent symphony is the vagus nerve.
Speaker #0
The vagus nerve. The famous or infamous 10th cranial nerve.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
This feels like our shortcut to finally understanding what it actually does.
Speaker #1
Well, it's usually summarized as the brake pedal on stress, right? It's the main branch of the parasympathetic system.
Speaker #0
The rest and digest system. Yeah. Or as our sources put it, the system of safety, recovery, connection.
Speaker #1
And it works to counteract the accelerator pedal, the sympathetic system, your fight or flight.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
But to really get the connection that Gandor's story illustrates, we have to start with this neurological marvel. Anatomically, it's a marathon runner.
Speaker #0
Where does it even start?
Speaker #1
It originates in three really crucial clusters in the brainstem. You've got the ambiguous nucleus, which is essential for modulating your heart rhythm, and it also controls the larynx.
Speaker #0
Ah, okay. So there's your first clue to connection right there, your tone of voice.
Speaker #1
That's it. Then there's the dorsal vagus nucleus, which mostly governs your visceral and digestive functions. And finally, the reticular formation, which organizes the whole autonomous nervous system response.
Speaker #0
So it's coming out of these core processing centers in the brain, and then it just drops down. It's a real pathway connecting the command center to the entire body.
Speaker #1
It really is. It descends through the neck, through the chest, and it's sending these vital messages to the throat. It wraps around the heart and lungs and then branches out everywhere in the digestive organs.
Speaker #0
Stomach, intestines, colon, all of it.
Speaker #1
The whole system. It dictates everything from our voice and our facial expressions. You know, think of the open, relaxed face of a person you feel safe with to the relaxed lips and the jaw mobility you see in a truly calm horse.
Speaker #0
OK, here's where it gets really interesting for me. This is where our sources just flip the script on what I thought I knew.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
If you ask most people what the vagus nerve does, they'd say it's a one way command cable. The brain is the CEO sending orders down to the body saying, hey. Be calm. Slow down.
Speaker #1
And that narrative, while it's simple, it's just deeply misleading. That top-down control, that's only 20% of the nerve's activity. Okay,
Speaker #0
but what do you mean by 20%?
Speaker #1
The critical discovery, the thing that's central to this whole horse-rider bond, is that a whopping 80% of the vagus nerve fibers are affrent.
Speaker #0
Affent. Okay. Which means they send information from the body back up to the brain.
Speaker #1
Yes. Exactly. It completely reverses the traditional corporate hierarchy of the nervous system.
Speaker #0
So the body is the one reporting in. It's not taking orders.
Speaker #1
The body is the primary source of safety information. It's informing the mind about what's going on, not the other way around. Think of it as this huge, highly efficient surveillance system operating below your neck.
Speaker #0
And it's constantly sending status reports.
Speaker #1
Constantly asking, is the heart beating freely? Is my breath unblocked? Is the digestive system working?
Speaker #0
So if I walk up to Gandor... feeling stressed, my brain, my conscious mind might be telling itself, I'm fine, I'm happy to see him. But those 80% of afferent fibers are sending a very, very different message upstairs. My gut is basically texting my head, warning, tension detected, diaphragm is rigid, internal threat level is high.
Speaker #1
That's a perfect way to put it. And when the brain gets those signals reporting internal distress, it has no choice but to conclude we are not secure, we have to stay vigilant.
Speaker #0
And the horse, this master reader of body language, feels that lack of security. Immediately.
Speaker #1
Instantly. This tells us security isn't some mental concept you just decide on. It is a biological embodied reality signaled by those afferent nerves.
Speaker #0
And to understand that embodied reality, we have to talk about Dr. Stephen Porges and his polyvagal theory.
Speaker #1
Yes.
Speaker #0
I mean, the vagus nerve is just the calm down system. Why did Porges feel the need to identify two completely different pathways within it?
Speaker #1
Because the old model, you know, simple fight, flight, arrest. It just didn't explain everything. It didn't explain why people, or horses for that matter, sometimes just completely shut down when they're under threat. Quarters showed that the vagus nerve isn't a single on-off switch. It has two distinct, evolutionarily different pathways that determine how we react to stress and how we seek safety.
Speaker #0
Let's start with the darker path then, the older one.
Speaker #1
That would be the dorsal vagal pathway. This is the oldest, most primitive path, the one we share with reptiles. It's activated under extreme inescapable stress.
Speaker #0
And what does it do?
Speaker #1
Its function is total immobilization. It's the classic playing dead response. When this gets activated, the body essentially unplugs. Heart rate plummets, respiration slows right down, and you often get psychological dissociation.
Speaker #0
And Gander's story highlights this. A horse standing perfectly still might look calm.
Speaker #1
Right. Compliant.
Speaker #0
But if the dorsal vagal pathway is running the show, it's not calm at all. It's frozen. It's absent. The sources call it crushed nervously.
Speaker #1
It's survival mode disguised as obedience. A crucial distinction for anyone working with animals or, frankly, in any high-stress relationship.
Speaker #0
It's the last resort.
Speaker #1
The ultimate survival fallback. But, thankfully, we have the newer system, the ventral vagal pathway. This is the myelinated, faster, more sophisticated pathway that's unique to social mammals.
Speaker #0
Okay, so this is the good stuff.
Speaker #1
This is the good stuff. Its function is trust, relationship, engagement. and most importantly, connection.
Speaker #0
So when riders talk about that deep connection, or I'm really feeling them today, they are biologically describing the simultaneous activation of their own ventral vagal pathway and the horse's.
Speaker #1
Yes. It's not some fuzzy emotional concept. It is neurophysiological synchronicity. It's a shared biological agreement that says we are safe together.
Speaker #0
So when that ventral vagus is online, our whole system changes.
Speaker #1
Exactly. Your vocal tone softens, your facial muscles engage for social interaction, your heart becomes flexible. This whole combination of signals is what Porges calls the social engagement system.
Speaker #0
Which leads us perfectly into the specific barometers the vagus nerve uses to communicate that safety. And let's start with the heart.
Speaker #1
The heart is the grand conductor here. The vagus nerve slows the heart rate, sure, but the more important piece is that it increases something called VFC, or heart rate variability.
Speaker #0
Right. And this needs a great analogy.
Speaker #1
It does. So VFC is the flexibility of the timing between your heartbeats. If your heart is beating like a rigid metronome tick, tick, tick, you have low VFC.
Speaker #0
Which means the system is locked down in stress.
Speaker #1
Locked down. But if the timing between beats subtly varies, if it adapts second to second, that's high VFC.
Speaker #0
Our sources use the image of a rubber band versus a brittle stick. The rubber band is high VFC. It's resilient. It can streck and snap back.
Speaker #1
Whereas the brittle stick, low VFC, just snaps under the slightest pressure.
Speaker #0
So that flexibility, that high VFC, is the literal physical signal of resilience the horse's nervous system is looking for.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. The sources confirm it. The horse senses the rider's VFC. When a rider achieves that internal state of flexible, high VFC, the horse feels a literal signal of safety. It's your heart telling the horse's entire body, I am stable. The world is safe. you can relax.
Speaker #0
And then there's respiration, which is maybe the most direct key we have to regulating our own vagus nerve.
Speaker #1
It's the one we can consciously control. Slow, long expiration directly stimulates the vagus nerve.
Speaker #0
The exhale is the key.
Speaker #1
The exhale is the key. When a rider takes a slow, deep breath and really focuses on a long, extended exhale, the parasympathetic system immediately starts to take over. And crucially, this changes the rhythm, the weight, and the movement of the rider's chest and core.
Speaker #0
And the horse feels that pressure change instantly. Through the saddle, through his back muscles. It's not about the words you say. It's about the nervous rhythm behind them.
Speaker #1
A breath held high in the chest signals panic. A breath that sinks low and is released slowly signals grounding.
Speaker #0
And finally, we have to talk about digestion.
Speaker #1
Can't ignore it. The vagus nerve is the main regulator of the entire digestive tract. When a human or a horse is stressed, what happens? All the resources are diverted to the limbs for fight or flight.
Speaker #0
And digestion shuts down.
Speaker #1
Shuts down. Which is why you see things like ulcers and blockages so often in high-stress sport horses.
Speaker #0
But the signs of recovery, the signs that digestion is coming back online, are so telling.
Speaker #1
They are. When you see a horse give a deep yawn or start chewing. licking its lips, or when you hear its belly gurgling loudly.
Speaker #0
That's not just psychological relaxation.
Speaker #1
Not at all. That is pure physiological parasympathetic activation. The digestive system is coming back online. It's physical proof that the body has concluded the danger has passed. Those are the metrics of the vagus nerve getting back to work.
Speaker #0
So if we put all of these signals together, the heart's flexibility, the breath, the digestion, it all leads to this idea of co-regulation.
Speaker #1
Yes. Co-regulation. It's the agreement between two nervous systems. It's like two instruments tuning themselves to play the same note.
Speaker #0
And the critical rule, the one our sources just hammered home again and again.
Speaker #1
Is that the rider's nervous state always influences and sculpts the horse's state. Second by second. There's no escaping it.
Speaker #0
So let's make that real. If I show up at the barn and I'm stressed, I'm running late, my breath is high, my shoulders are tight.
Speaker #1
A state we now know as a deactivated ventral vagus.
Speaker #0
Right. The horse perceives me as a biological threat. Even if I'm speaking softly, trying to be kind, my internal system is just screaming danger.
Speaker #1
That is exactly the dynamic. The horse's first line of defense isn't technical, it's nervous. The horse's body physically cannot achieve that supple, cooperative state we want if it senses the rider system is stuck in survival mode.
Speaker #0
So it has to defend itself.
Speaker #1
It must, above all else.
Speaker #0
This just fundamentally redefines what training is even about. It means the horse... Followed nervous coherence, not just technical orders.
Speaker #1
You could have the most beautifully positioned hands and legs in the world. But if your internal system is reporting tension, the horse receives the tension, not the request.
Speaker #0
So performance, fluidity, security, it all hinges on the shared nervous state that the pair co-constructs.
Speaker #1
A stable, deep-breathing rider provides a nervous system reference that is so robust and clear that the horse just naturally tunes into it. You're not demanding cooperation. You are offering biological security.
Speaker #0
Which brings us to the practical part. How do we as humans become that reference point? How do we actually activate our vagus nerve and train ourselves for safety so the horse can follow?
Speaker #1
Well, first we have to know what we're looking for. The recovery signs in the horse.
Speaker #0
Right, the physical proof.
Speaker #1
We need to be looking for those specific things. The long, deep sigh, the vibrating or licking of the lips, the chewing, the lowered head. those slow, heavy eye blinks, and of course, the audible stomach gurgling.
Speaker #0
Those are the goals, the measurable physical goals of nervous system work.
Speaker #1
They are. And this is where something like body work comes in, and it plays an absolutely central role.
Speaker #0
The sources highlight things like Ayurvedic massage and specialized osteopathy. And they're not just for muscle soreness.
Speaker #1
No, they are essential tools for what they call vagal re-education.
Speaker #0
Re-education. I like that.
Speaker #1
It's the key term. These practices act on deep structures. like the diaphragm, the intercostals, those muscles between the ribs, and the fascia around the organs. Oxyopathy especially focuses on liberating the diaphragm and the ribs.
Speaker #0
And since the vagus nerve passes right through there.
Speaker #1
Liberating that area literally allows the nerve to regain its freedom. It helps reorganize those vital 80% of afferent sensory channels.
Speaker #0
So by physically releasing tension in my chest and my core, I'm actually changing the quality of the information my body is sending to my brain about its own safety status.
Speaker #1
You're changing the report. Exactly. And the same principle applies to the writer's own training. The sources make this amazing connection to Pilates.
Speaker #0
Why Pilates specifically?
Speaker #1
Because it's one of the only disciplines that simultaneously addresses all the key regulators. You've got lateral thoracic breathing, you have spinal mobility, core stability, and internal attention all at once.
Speaker #0
That lateral thoracic breathing, the breathing into the sides of the ribs. That forces the diaphragm to descend.
Speaker #1
Which directly stimulates the vagal baroreceptors in your chest and arteries. A rider who consistently practices this isn't just physically fitter, they are more nervously regulated. They have higher VFC, deeper, quieter respiration.
Speaker #0
And here's the co-regulation loop made tangible.
Speaker #1
This is it. The rider's consistent Pilates training becomes the horse's nervous training. When the rider achieves that core stability and depth of breath, it provides such a clear... clear, stable reference that the horse's own system just adapts to it.
Speaker #0
When the rider's diaphragm moves freely, the horse's diaphragm finds the space to relax and breathe better too.
Speaker #1
It's a physical conversation.
Speaker #0
And I think the biggest takeaway, the one confirmed by Gander's own incredible recovery from a high-stress racing career, is this idea of vagal plasticity.
Speaker #1
That's so helpful. The vagus nerve isn't a fixed circuit. It can be strengthened, it can be rebuilt, re-educated at any age, any level.
Speaker #0
Consistent routine, deep breathing. Coherent Interaction. They rebuild biological safety from the ground up. It proves that foundation of connection is always accessible to us.
Speaker #1
So if we synthesize this entire deep dive, the ultimate lesson is this. A horse doesn't demand technical perfection from you. It demands regulation and presence.
Speaker #0
It doesn't seek a strong rider.
Speaker #1
It seeks a safe rider. And security isn't a positive thought. It's a verifiable nervous state that you build before you ever touch the stirrup, starting with these internal practices like deep breathing and grounding.
Speaker #0
So the true art of riding, and really the true art of navigating any deeply interconnected relationship, is co-constructing a shared state of nervous safety.
Speaker #1
That's the whole game.
Speaker #0
Our sources, through the quiet wisdom of a horse, show us the pathway to that internal stability. So what simple daily action, a focus on a long, deliberate exhalation, a moment of internal stillness and stability, could you practice today to activate your ventral vagus and fundamentally change the quality of connection you have with the world around you? The co-regulation, as we've learned, always begins inside.

About 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive

English : Steeve Pitt and Anabela Wilson Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

French : Sébastien Flaurent et Claire Brunel Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

Italien : Margaux Cangini - Instructor Stott Pilates

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive

English : Steeve Pitt and Anabela Wilson Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

French : Sébastien Flaurent et Claire Brunel Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

Italien : Margaux Cangini - Instructor Stott Pilates

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Description

Join us in this captivating exploration of the human-horse bond, and discover how the principles of 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive can transform not only your riding but also your life.

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

Transcription

Speaker #0
Welcome to the Deep Dive. Today, we're on a mission, and honestly, it's inspired by one of the most unusual sources we've ever come across.
Speaker #1
It really is. We're talking about an intimate interview that details the life and, well, the wisdom of a purebred Arabian horse named Gandor.
Speaker #0
Exactly. And the insights he provided basically unlock this invisible science behind trust, connection, and what you might call interspecies calm.
Speaker #1
It's the perfect launch pad for this deep dive because the core observation, the thing that grounds all the science we're about to get into, is actually really simple but profound.
Speaker #0
Lay it on us.
Speaker #1
Gandor would visibly change his physiological state. I mean, his breathing would lengthen, his eyes would soften, that huge neck of his would just relax.
Speaker #0
Okay.
Speaker #1
The instant his rider approached his stall, before she even laid a hand on him, no command, no touch, nothing.
Speaker #0
That's incredible. We're talking about a prey animal, right? An animal with this built-in... hypervigilant nervous system, and it's instantly decoding a human's internal state. So right away, we can throw out the idea that this is just, you know, some fuzzy emotional bond or conditioning.
Speaker #1
Oh, completely. The question we have to answer is, what is the biological mechanism? What is the invisible science that lets an animal perceive and adapt so deeply to a human's nervous state?
Speaker #0
So we're using this horse-human relationship to map out the science of calm.
Speaker #1
Precisely. And it is a complete physiological phenomenon. The horse is just exquisitely tuned to these tiny unconscious cues. Your breathing rhythm, little shifts in your posture, the tension in your jaw.
Speaker #0
Things I don't even know I'm doing.
Speaker #1
Exactly. And the master conductor orchestrating this entire silent symphony is the vagus nerve.
Speaker #0
The vagus nerve. The famous or infamous 10th cranial nerve.
Speaker #1
Yeah.
Speaker #0
This feels like our shortcut to finally understanding what it actually does.
Speaker #1
Well, it's usually summarized as the brake pedal on stress, right? It's the main branch of the parasympathetic system.
Speaker #0
The rest and digest system. Yeah. Or as our sources put it, the system of safety, recovery, connection.
Speaker #1
And it works to counteract the accelerator pedal, the sympathetic system, your fight or flight.
Speaker #0
Right.
Speaker #1
But to really get the connection that Gandor's story illustrates, we have to start with this neurological marvel. Anatomically, it's a marathon runner.
Speaker #0
Where does it even start?
Speaker #1
It originates in three really crucial clusters in the brainstem. You've got the ambiguous nucleus, which is essential for modulating your heart rhythm, and it also controls the larynx.
Speaker #0
Ah, okay. So there's your first clue to connection right there, your tone of voice.
Speaker #1
That's it. Then there's the dorsal vagus nucleus, which mostly governs your visceral and digestive functions. And finally, the reticular formation, which organizes the whole autonomous nervous system response.
Speaker #0
So it's coming out of these core processing centers in the brain, and then it just drops down. It's a real pathway connecting the command center to the entire body.
Speaker #1
It really is. It descends through the neck, through the chest, and it's sending these vital messages to the throat. It wraps around the heart and lungs and then branches out everywhere in the digestive organs.
Speaker #0
Stomach, intestines, colon, all of it.
Speaker #1
The whole system. It dictates everything from our voice and our facial expressions. You know, think of the open, relaxed face of a person you feel safe with to the relaxed lips and the jaw mobility you see in a truly calm horse.
Speaker #0
OK, here's where it gets really interesting for me. This is where our sources just flip the script on what I thought I knew.
Speaker #1
Right.
Speaker #0
If you ask most people what the vagus nerve does, they'd say it's a one way command cable. The brain is the CEO sending orders down to the body saying, hey. Be calm. Slow down.
Speaker #1
And that narrative, while it's simple, it's just deeply misleading. That top-down control, that's only 20% of the nerve's activity. Okay,
Speaker #0
but what do you mean by 20%?
Speaker #1
The critical discovery, the thing that's central to this whole horse-rider bond, is that a whopping 80% of the vagus nerve fibers are affrent.
Speaker #0
Affent. Okay. Which means they send information from the body back up to the brain.
Speaker #1
Yes. Exactly. It completely reverses the traditional corporate hierarchy of the nervous system.
Speaker #0
So the body is the one reporting in. It's not taking orders.
Speaker #1
The body is the primary source of safety information. It's informing the mind about what's going on, not the other way around. Think of it as this huge, highly efficient surveillance system operating below your neck.
Speaker #0
And it's constantly sending status reports.
Speaker #1
Constantly asking, is the heart beating freely? Is my breath unblocked? Is the digestive system working?
Speaker #0
So if I walk up to Gandor... feeling stressed, my brain, my conscious mind might be telling itself, I'm fine, I'm happy to see him. But those 80% of afferent fibers are sending a very, very different message upstairs. My gut is basically texting my head, warning, tension detected, diaphragm is rigid, internal threat level is high.
Speaker #1
That's a perfect way to put it. And when the brain gets those signals reporting internal distress, it has no choice but to conclude we are not secure, we have to stay vigilant.
Speaker #0
And the horse, this master reader of body language, feels that lack of security. Immediately.
Speaker #1
Instantly. This tells us security isn't some mental concept you just decide on. It is a biological embodied reality signaled by those afferent nerves.
Speaker #0
And to understand that embodied reality, we have to talk about Dr. Stephen Porges and his polyvagal theory.
Speaker #1
Yes.
Speaker #0
I mean, the vagus nerve is just the calm down system. Why did Porges feel the need to identify two completely different pathways within it?
Speaker #1
Because the old model, you know, simple fight, flight, arrest. It just didn't explain everything. It didn't explain why people, or horses for that matter, sometimes just completely shut down when they're under threat. Quarters showed that the vagus nerve isn't a single on-off switch. It has two distinct, evolutionarily different pathways that determine how we react to stress and how we seek safety.
Speaker #0
Let's start with the darker path then, the older one.
Speaker #1
That would be the dorsal vagal pathway. This is the oldest, most primitive path, the one we share with reptiles. It's activated under extreme inescapable stress.
Speaker #0
And what does it do?
Speaker #1
Its function is total immobilization. It's the classic playing dead response. When this gets activated, the body essentially unplugs. Heart rate plummets, respiration slows right down, and you often get psychological dissociation.
Speaker #0
And Gander's story highlights this. A horse standing perfectly still might look calm.
Speaker #1
Right. Compliant.
Speaker #0
But if the dorsal vagal pathway is running the show, it's not calm at all. It's frozen. It's absent. The sources call it crushed nervously.
Speaker #1
It's survival mode disguised as obedience. A crucial distinction for anyone working with animals or, frankly, in any high-stress relationship.
Speaker #0
It's the last resort.
Speaker #1
The ultimate survival fallback. But, thankfully, we have the newer system, the ventral vagal pathway. This is the myelinated, faster, more sophisticated pathway that's unique to social mammals.
Speaker #0
Okay, so this is the good stuff.
Speaker #1
This is the good stuff. Its function is trust, relationship, engagement. and most importantly, connection.
Speaker #0
So when riders talk about that deep connection, or I'm really feeling them today, they are biologically describing the simultaneous activation of their own ventral vagal pathway and the horse's.
Speaker #1
Yes. It's not some fuzzy emotional concept. It is neurophysiological synchronicity. It's a shared biological agreement that says we are safe together.
Speaker #0
So when that ventral vagus is online, our whole system changes.
Speaker #1
Exactly. Your vocal tone softens, your facial muscles engage for social interaction, your heart becomes flexible. This whole combination of signals is what Porges calls the social engagement system.
Speaker #0
Which leads us perfectly into the specific barometers the vagus nerve uses to communicate that safety. And let's start with the heart.
Speaker #1
The heart is the grand conductor here. The vagus nerve slows the heart rate, sure, but the more important piece is that it increases something called VFC, or heart rate variability.
Speaker #0
Right. And this needs a great analogy.
Speaker #1
It does. So VFC is the flexibility of the timing between your heartbeats. If your heart is beating like a rigid metronome tick, tick, tick, you have low VFC.
Speaker #0
Which means the system is locked down in stress.
Speaker #1
Locked down. But if the timing between beats subtly varies, if it adapts second to second, that's high VFC.
Speaker #0
Our sources use the image of a rubber band versus a brittle stick. The rubber band is high VFC. It's resilient. It can streck and snap back.
Speaker #1
Whereas the brittle stick, low VFC, just snaps under the slightest pressure.
Speaker #0
So that flexibility, that high VFC, is the literal physical signal of resilience the horse's nervous system is looking for.
Speaker #1
Absolutely. The sources confirm it. The horse senses the rider's VFC. When a rider achieves that internal state of flexible, high VFC, the horse feels a literal signal of safety. It's your heart telling the horse's entire body, I am stable. The world is safe. you can relax.
Speaker #0
And then there's respiration, which is maybe the most direct key we have to regulating our own vagus nerve.
Speaker #1
It's the one we can consciously control. Slow, long expiration directly stimulates the vagus nerve.
Speaker #0
The exhale is the key.
Speaker #1
The exhale is the key. When a rider takes a slow, deep breath and really focuses on a long, extended exhale, the parasympathetic system immediately starts to take over. And crucially, this changes the rhythm, the weight, and the movement of the rider's chest and core.
Speaker #0
And the horse feels that pressure change instantly. Through the saddle, through his back muscles. It's not about the words you say. It's about the nervous rhythm behind them.
Speaker #1
A breath held high in the chest signals panic. A breath that sinks low and is released slowly signals grounding.
Speaker #0
And finally, we have to talk about digestion.
Speaker #1
Can't ignore it. The vagus nerve is the main regulator of the entire digestive tract. When a human or a horse is stressed, what happens? All the resources are diverted to the limbs for fight or flight.
Speaker #0
And digestion shuts down.
Speaker #1
Shuts down. Which is why you see things like ulcers and blockages so often in high-stress sport horses.
Speaker #0
But the signs of recovery, the signs that digestion is coming back online, are so telling.
Speaker #1
They are. When you see a horse give a deep yawn or start chewing. licking its lips, or when you hear its belly gurgling loudly.
Speaker #0
That's not just psychological relaxation.
Speaker #1
Not at all. That is pure physiological parasympathetic activation. The digestive system is coming back online. It's physical proof that the body has concluded the danger has passed. Those are the metrics of the vagus nerve getting back to work.
Speaker #0
So if we put all of these signals together, the heart's flexibility, the breath, the digestion, it all leads to this idea of co-regulation.
Speaker #1
Yes. Co-regulation. It's the agreement between two nervous systems. It's like two instruments tuning themselves to play the same note.
Speaker #0
And the critical rule, the one our sources just hammered home again and again.
Speaker #1
Is that the rider's nervous state always influences and sculpts the horse's state. Second by second. There's no escaping it.
Speaker #0
So let's make that real. If I show up at the barn and I'm stressed, I'm running late, my breath is high, my shoulders are tight.
Speaker #1
A state we now know as a deactivated ventral vagus.
Speaker #0
Right. The horse perceives me as a biological threat. Even if I'm speaking softly, trying to be kind, my internal system is just screaming danger.
Speaker #1
That is exactly the dynamic. The horse's first line of defense isn't technical, it's nervous. The horse's body physically cannot achieve that supple, cooperative state we want if it senses the rider system is stuck in survival mode.
Speaker #0
So it has to defend itself.
Speaker #1
It must, above all else.
Speaker #0
This just fundamentally redefines what training is even about. It means the horse... Followed nervous coherence, not just technical orders.
Speaker #1
You could have the most beautifully positioned hands and legs in the world. But if your internal system is reporting tension, the horse receives the tension, not the request.
Speaker #0
So performance, fluidity, security, it all hinges on the shared nervous state that the pair co-constructs.
Speaker #1
A stable, deep-breathing rider provides a nervous system reference that is so robust and clear that the horse just naturally tunes into it. You're not demanding cooperation. You are offering biological security.
Speaker #0
Which brings us to the practical part. How do we as humans become that reference point? How do we actually activate our vagus nerve and train ourselves for safety so the horse can follow?
Speaker #1
Well, first we have to know what we're looking for. The recovery signs in the horse.
Speaker #0
Right, the physical proof.
Speaker #1
We need to be looking for those specific things. The long, deep sigh, the vibrating or licking of the lips, the chewing, the lowered head. those slow, heavy eye blinks, and of course, the audible stomach gurgling.
Speaker #0
Those are the goals, the measurable physical goals of nervous system work.
Speaker #1
They are. And this is where something like body work comes in, and it plays an absolutely central role.
Speaker #0
The sources highlight things like Ayurvedic massage and specialized osteopathy. And they're not just for muscle soreness.
Speaker #1
No, they are essential tools for what they call vagal re-education.
Speaker #0
Re-education. I like that.
Speaker #1
It's the key term. These practices act on deep structures. like the diaphragm, the intercostals, those muscles between the ribs, and the fascia around the organs. Oxyopathy especially focuses on liberating the diaphragm and the ribs.
Speaker #0
And since the vagus nerve passes right through there.
Speaker #1
Liberating that area literally allows the nerve to regain its freedom. It helps reorganize those vital 80% of afferent sensory channels.
Speaker #0
So by physically releasing tension in my chest and my core, I'm actually changing the quality of the information my body is sending to my brain about its own safety status.
Speaker #1
You're changing the report. Exactly. And the same principle applies to the writer's own training. The sources make this amazing connection to Pilates.
Speaker #0
Why Pilates specifically?
Speaker #1
Because it's one of the only disciplines that simultaneously addresses all the key regulators. You've got lateral thoracic breathing, you have spinal mobility, core stability, and internal attention all at once.
Speaker #0
That lateral thoracic breathing, the breathing into the sides of the ribs. That forces the diaphragm to descend.
Speaker #1
Which directly stimulates the vagal baroreceptors in your chest and arteries. A rider who consistently practices this isn't just physically fitter, they are more nervously regulated. They have higher VFC, deeper, quieter respiration.
Speaker #0
And here's the co-regulation loop made tangible.
Speaker #1
This is it. The rider's consistent Pilates training becomes the horse's nervous training. When the rider achieves that core stability and depth of breath, it provides such a clear... clear, stable reference that the horse's own system just adapts to it.
Speaker #0
When the rider's diaphragm moves freely, the horse's diaphragm finds the space to relax and breathe better too.
Speaker #1
It's a physical conversation.
Speaker #0
And I think the biggest takeaway, the one confirmed by Gander's own incredible recovery from a high-stress racing career, is this idea of vagal plasticity.
Speaker #1
That's so helpful. The vagus nerve isn't a fixed circuit. It can be strengthened, it can be rebuilt, re-educated at any age, any level.
Speaker #0
Consistent routine, deep breathing. Coherent Interaction. They rebuild biological safety from the ground up. It proves that foundation of connection is always accessible to us.
Speaker #1
So if we synthesize this entire deep dive, the ultimate lesson is this. A horse doesn't demand technical perfection from you. It demands regulation and presence.
Speaker #0
It doesn't seek a strong rider.
Speaker #1
It seeks a safe rider. And security isn't a positive thought. It's a verifiable nervous state that you build before you ever touch the stirrup, starting with these internal practices like deep breathing and grounding.
Speaker #0
So the true art of riding, and really the true art of navigating any deeply interconnected relationship, is co-constructing a shared state of nervous safety.
Speaker #1
That's the whole game.
Speaker #0
Our sources, through the quiet wisdom of a horse, show us the pathway to that internal stability. So what simple daily action, a focus on a long, deliberate exhalation, a moment of internal stillness and stability, could you practice today to activate your ventral vagus and fundamentally change the quality of connection you have with the world around you? The co-regulation, as we've learned, always begins inside.

About 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive

English : Steeve Pitt and Anabela Wilson Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

French : Sébastien Flaurent et Claire Brunel Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

Italien : Margaux Cangini - Instructor Stott Pilates

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

About 🧘‍♀️ Biopilates Deep Dive

English : Steeve Pitt and Anabela Wilson Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

French : Sébastien Flaurent et Claire Brunel Media Manager Global Hosting Stott Pilates @ Studio Biopilates Paris

Italien : Margaux Cangini - Instructor Stott Pilates

Hosted on Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.

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