Transcription

• Speaker #0

  So I think some people born with something inside and my stuff is about like being in the nature. I think that's more than doing farming. It's being in contact with the nature. It's like someone is calling you. It's where I feel comfortable, where I feel happy and where I feel free. It's here.

• Speaker #1

  Welcome back to the Deep Seed Podcast. This week I am in the center east region of Portugal visiting the most beautiful farm I've ever seen, Monte Silveira. My guest today is Joao Valente, the owner and manager of this farm. This episode was created as a video documentary and I highly recommend watching it on YouTube. But if that's not possible for you right now, don't worry, I've adapted the audio version to make sure you can follow everything right here. This episode was made in partnership with Soil Capital. I am your host, Rafael, and this is the Deep Seat Podcast.

• Speaker #0

  So good morning, thank you for having me. My name is João Valente. I am responsible for this project, it's called Monte Silveira. We are located in the interior center of Portugal, a really dry area, very near Spain. And we manage around 1,000 hectares, the total project. I studied civil engineering in university and then I was really not enjoying what I was studying. And I shifted to economics in agriculture and then I came here. to this project. Our background was we were total conventional farm, we were one of the biggest tobacco growers in Portugal, we also at that time we grow we also grow broccoli for the frozen industry and melons for exportation for for Holland. That was like the the cycle in the in the arable land and then we also raised cattle obviously. Back then in 1999, 2000, I was already going to some shows about organic farming and some stuff, listening to some people out of the blocks for that time. And the things that I was listening to, they make sense from the point of view of a person that really likes and enjoys to be in nature. So I started to ask myself. If it was possible to do farming in a profitability point of view without not being so aggressive to nature, not imposing everything. I always say this when I make some talks and some shows, it's the same about us humans, it's like, I want, I want to do this, I want to grow wheat, I want to grow corn, I want to grow a vineyard. And our first... thought or intention should be let me understand what I want to do what I want to do and and yeah it was a get-together of several opportunities because Tobacco crop was about to get without subsidies. So there was kind of a financial pillow to help people that wanted to to disengage from from tobacco And we have a family reunion and we say, okay, let's try organic. And since back then we never stopped. Right. And now we just achieved the point that we achieved. And now, RegenQ Organic Certified, one of the, I think it's the first one in the Iberian Peninsula, and one of the nine in Europe. Large Farm is the first one in Europe, unfortunately. I hope there are more people come and join. And yeah, recently... Nominated also for the Top 50 Farmers' Co-Work. Also a great honor to be there. I will consider Lighthouse Farm a pioneer, but what I feel it's like, I don't know nothing. I learn every day. I learn every day.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, that's incredible. I can't wait to dig deeper into everything you're doing here to try to really understand it in as much depth as possible. Okay. And before we do that, maybe you could give me a summary, an overview of the operation, what you farm here, how the system works.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, so we manage around 1,000 hectares considering all the plots that we have. This one where we are having this interview, it's the biggest, it's around 700 hectares. Mainly, we have 500 hectares of montado. It's an agroforestry system. I think it's the oldest one, at least in the Iberian Peninsula. It's composed by mainly two species of Quercus, called Quercus rotundifolia and Quercus sober. That ecosystem, unfortunately, we are losing more than 5,000 to 7,000 hectares per year. And we are losing that because we don't know, we don't longer manage it how it was supposed to be managed. It was created by shepherds and it was grazed every year, respecting the time of the year that we were, if we were in spring or if we were in summer or winter. So we had an impact and it has a resting period. And then the other part we do a permanent crop like olives, traditional olive trees, almonds. quince and strawberry trees and on the annual crops we grow wheat oats rye chickpeas pinto beans fava beans and yeah there's a lot so

• Speaker #1

  there's a lot lots to talk about yeah so let's go let's check it out okay okay So a big part of the farm is the Montado. Yeah. You mentioned it in the introduction just before.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Could you tell us more about this ecosystem and more importantly how you manage it?

• Speaker #0

  Okay. Well, the Montado, as I said before, it's one of the most antique agroforestry systems that we have in the Mediterranean. It has more than 10,000 years. It's not natural. It was planted by the men 10,000 years ago. The family is from the oak tree. The mainly two species that we have is this one that doesn't provide the cork, that is Quercus rotundifolia. In Portuguese we call it Azinheira. And that one that provides us the cork is called Quercus sober. And that is the one that people think it's more valuable but they work like together um well this system for me it's it's an inspiration for reminding us how man was connected to nature and and and took advantage of of so many simple things because these trees before there were trees there were there were bushes and men learned to to prune it into a range and to transform it into a tree, to provide shadow, to provide grass, and obviously to provide food for them and for the animals. Because the fruit many years ago was of a great importance to make flour, to make bread, to eat, to transform, and also for feeding the animals. Because many, many years ago obviously 10 000 years ago Being a shepherd and walking with the animals was a resource very valuable. It gave us the meat, the milk, the wool and the skin to dress us up. And so in the Mediterranean, the systems that combine forestry with agriculture, if you want to call it, by using with the animals, they were of a very big importance. Here we try to mimic. Obviously nature with the impact grazing. With all this sick approach we work with the four species of animals in the montado. We work with the goats that you are be able to see the work that Rodrigo is doing, with sheeps, with the black Portuguese pig and with cows. Normally the order that we set up to manage the montado is when the fruit starts to fall in early September, and then it goes until October, November, December, we start to integrate the pigs. The pigs, at this moment, they can transform the fruit into a high valuable asset, that is the pata negra, the ham, and they can transform that oil into an asset, and that gives that flavor to the meat. After the pigs, pest and because the pigs cannot eat all the grass we start working with the sheeps together with the cows okay and for specific spots like bushes where we have brambles and other species we use electric fences to operate with the goats because goats as we all know they don't they don't are like big fans of grass they are like bush eaters so it's working with different tools for different contexts at different times of the year always trying to mimic a nature obviously turn to mimic a how earths were managed because shepherds were always afraid of wild animals and they They had the dogs, so all the animals worked with them. in a compact system. And we know because we had a lot of studies, I don't know if Diogo mentioned it, but by managing correctly the animals, for example, you can have or increase the work of the microbiome in the soil, so you can increase the cycle of nutrients in the soil. So you can make the soil more functional, more profitable, providing you to this operation more grass. So if you have more grass, You can increase the number of animals that you have, so you can increase your profitability in the operation. And this is how we manage. After we pass the sheep with the cows, we let the montado to rest. It's so important to be grazed, as it is so important to have that period of rest, so that you give nature time to recover. What we unfortunately see more, at least in my country, it's overgrazing. You no longer see... all this system was made with perennial grasses. And now what you see when you are walking through other farms, it's okay they have grass, but they have like annuals. And what we try to do here with this kind of approach is bringing back the perennial system. Because it's a much more resilient system, the roots, obviously they made a totally different work from an annual. from the root of an annual plant, they build our soil, they increase the organic matter, so you will be able to sequest more water, so you'll be able to have more grass. This is what we are working for.

• Speaker #1

  Could you sort of describe a little bit how you manage to keep the animals in close herds, in small herds, how you rotate them, And how does that contribute to increasing the perennial? plants on the system. Okay,

• Speaker #0

  so the way we manage the animals in the Montado is, okay, we have physical fences, we have paddocks around 85 to 100 hectares, but obviously we don't want them loose in these big areas, so we use the electric fences to keep them together, and obviously with water always being next to them, and we try to mimic the impact grazing system. So by creating that impact, you wake up very old perennial plants that are sleeping. Because this system was designed to be managed like that. And the reason that it is not providing us the correct rest is because we are not managing in the correct way. So what we do is we just mimic the old herds of wild animals and the way that old shepherds manage. Like with electric fences, we keep them real tight. And then we move them to another part and to another part, and then we have a board where we put the times that each animal or each species have passed in that plot, and then we can control the resting periods. We don't have a specific time to have a certain species in a certain plot. It's all about observation, and that's the thing about regenerative farming or the holistic. approach to even when you do a grazing plan. You need to observe what amount of grass you have. It's all about the time that you want them because you need to first you need to measure the food that you want. Then you need to know what do you want to do with the food that you want. Is there a time of the year that you wanted to take it down? Is there a time of the year that you wanted to leave it like half eaten? You need to check out the weather as there's gonna be rain coming. So I'm gonna get a regrowth on grass i'm not going to have the regrowth on grass it's not just recipes that you but you do 30 days and magic will happens now it doesn't go that way so you have to always be observing and then you do decisions yeah okay that's great yeah if you have a big area with a certain density of animals and you just let

• Speaker #1

  them be on that big area for a long period of time or if you have exactly the same total density but managed in a rotational way like you do yeah what's the difference why is it better for the ecosystem by letting the animals lose on the area it's like

• Speaker #0

  When you go to a buffet and you go and I'm gonna eat a little bit of this, a little bit of that, because you are able to choose. And the system was not designed for the animals to choose. The system was designed by animals are all together afraid of predators, afraid that something happens. They go all together to drink water. And the system was designed for that. That is the impact that you do with the poo.

• Speaker #1

  pee with a sweat of the animal being laid down that that what wakes up the the system okay so i like the buffet analogy so the the animals they will pick what they like the most yeah we'll go around and overgraze some areas undergraze other areas they will eat a lot of one types of plants but not the other and and you end up with a less diverse ecosystem with less perennials and yeah I'll give you a very good example here.

• Speaker #0

  If you let the animal loose... here they will go for this. But if you press them, you will have animals eating this shrub. And even this shrub here. Even a cow or a sheep will go for this, because they are so pressed, they will go and eat it. So they will promote that this root system goes deeper.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. Okay? Yeah, yeah,

• Speaker #0

  yeah. So it's...

• Speaker #1

  Right, right. Makes a lot of sense. Yes. And so what's the evolution you've observed? The difference between... 15 years ago and today in the landscape that we can see here?

• Speaker #0

  The main difference for me is the amount of food that I'm growing, so the amount of grass, the species. I'm actually now having much more perennial systems that feed, that have more fiber, so with less grass and more quality grass I can have my animals like... bigger, fatter, and especially, and for me it's the most important, the montado has stopped the mortality. So the way of grazing it by just letting the animals free, that's how we lose a lot of montado. We don't manage it right. This system was designed to be managed this way. When by having, for example, we are cork producers and contrary to many farms, we don't decrease our cork production.

• Speaker #1

  Okay.

• Speaker #0

  It stays stable, but it doesn't go down. Okay. And we have dead trees. So that's a sign that new trees are coming and new trees are providing you cork and fruit. Like this one here, this small one, it was a bush like this 17 years ago. We just make them like a protection. We prune it. And now like this one, like this one. So this is... For example, this is one thing that we do is promote the natural regeneration. For me, these are the best trees that the system can give me. But at the same time, we also do plantation of new trees. So we try to combine the two things because we have lost a lot of time. So we're trying to get it back.

• Speaker #1

  That's amazing. So the ecosystem is reviving, you get more trees, younger trees that you're taking care of. increasing sort of the tree density of the area and the old trees are healthier and they survive longer thanks to that system. Then you get more grass growth, healthier, more diverse kind of plants and grasses which is great for the health of your animals as well so you have a healthier trees, healthier grass, healthier animals. And as you mentioned it's also good for your for the economic uh side of the yes exactly what i want to say it's like people

• Speaker #0

  still look at this like it's too complicated but if you have if this provides you more money in your pocket why don't you do it yeah it's just uh

• Speaker #1

  I don't know so this is a smart economic choice as well as well yeah yeah that's for the ecosystem yeah absolutely yeah absolutely right just a quick post to tell you about the official partner of the deep seat podcast soil capital most Farmers I've met love the idea of transitioning to regenerative agriculture. but a lot of the time they lack the financial incentives to do so and that's where soil capital comes in they financially reward farmers who improve things like soil health water cycles or biodiversity they're an amazing company i love what they're doing and i'm super proud to be partnering with them for the podcast we can see here that we have a lot of uh new trees new trees being planted?

• Speaker #0

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  Could you... Tell us what's going on here.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, okay. So this is... By the same way we take advantage of natural trees that are born in the system and we take care of them, we also boost the system with the plantation of new trees. This is a very interesting project of a plantation of, we planted 8,000 cork trees. And the thing here is that we designed a key line plantation here. So a key line for the person, for the public that doesn't know what it is, it's, and I'll tell you the most modest way, it's just a way of spreading the water correctly when you don't have a flat terrain. And when you do a key line design, you have what you call, what we call the master line. Because you have to respect when you pass, there's a plow, you call the yeoman's plow. I think it was invented in Australia. That will open channels underneath the soil to spread the water all over. And you have to pass, because it's a design, it has like... curved design and then it goes straight. It's like a Nanty curved design. And for you to know where is your master line, we have thought, okay, let's do the plantation where the master line is. So the plants will take advantage because we made the plantation with a little slope like this one. And then when you pass the yeoman's plow, you will know exactly where the master line is. Because when you do it, you need to respect half of the distance of this line, and then you do the other half of the distance of the design of the other line. So you cannot lose, it looks like crazy and complicated, but it's not. So we decided, okay, let's guarantee that those trees have always water. It's like a combination of two things.

• Speaker #1

  So if I understand correctly, the key line design follows the contour line, right?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  So the idea, like you said, is to make sure that the water is well distributed throughout the landscape.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, all over the terrain, yeah. And then it doesn't make water strains and holes and doesn't degradate, it doesn't take the soil when you have a lot of rain in a short period of time, you just get good and cool distribution.

• Speaker #1

  And you've planted the trees along those lines as well. Is that because this is where you have the most water, that's where they have the most chance of survival then?

• Speaker #0

  Yes, exactly. Okay, okay.

• Speaker #1

  So you planted... 8 000 new trees, cork trees. When we look at those sticks there we don't actually see the trees yet so they're very very young.

• Speaker #0

  Did you plant them from Acorn? This one we are now at this time we are in March, in the end of March. This one was planted in October with the fruit.

• Speaker #1

  So you planted straight from the fruit?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, we select the best the best acorn fruits from the best trees and then we plant them.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, so by...

• Speaker #0

  So it's material from the farm. That's how we... that's why we try to work with everything from the farm. We trust a lot in working with the same DNA and not bring DNA from other places. I see. And we know that because we try to work with the fruits from other farms and other trees and we didn't have the the percentage of success by working with our.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, okay. So by starting from the acorns, from other trees here on the farm, you know that this genetic material is adapted to your farm, to your soil.

• Speaker #0

  Exactly.

• Speaker #1

  It has the most chance of thriving here in the ecosystem. Yeah, makes a lot of sense. But from a young little tree like this, to get into a full... Let's look at this tree over here. Like, how old is that tree?

• Speaker #0

  It has more than 100 years. You can see the years that the tree has by the extraction of cork. If you do it without being irrigated, you need around 20 years to make the first extraction.

• Speaker #1

  So you mean from the moment the tree started to grow until the first time you take some of the cork, then you need at least 20 years?

• Speaker #0

  Yes, if you don't know with the irrigation systems, I don't believe it's the same quality. Actually, they are pushing and after seven, nine years you can take the first one. That really is a skinny tree. But it's us forcing the system.

• Speaker #1

  So the tree grows for a number of years until it has enough bark around it. Then you harvest the bark. We can see the line here.

• Speaker #0

  You see here is the line where the latest one was here.

• Speaker #1

  Oh yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Okay. And then the other one, like this is ten years ago. and this is 20 years ago here and then he here 13 years ago and he had here another one of course so Maybe 40 years plus the regrowth, maybe this tree would be around 75 to 80, 85, 90 years probably.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, I think I get it. So you harvest the bark. Yeah. It takes about 10 years to regrow a bark that is strong enough so that you can harvest it again and you can keep doing that.

• Speaker #0

  For as long as the tree is alive.

• Speaker #1

  And it doesn't harm the tree in any way?

• Speaker #0

  No, not at all.

• Speaker #1

  So it's an extremely sustainable practice.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, yes. And even for when you have fires, the cork trees have more resilience than the other trees because they have this protection.

• Speaker #1

  Okay,

• Speaker #0

  right. So unfortunately we already had a fire here and the trees that had better response after the fire was the cork trees.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. We're going to focus a little bit more on the arable side of the operation. You mentioned at the start you're growing... some grains, some legumes, like maybe you could tell us more about that.

• Speaker #0

  So here we are on a plot of our, what we call the arable spot or arable operations, because we also grow annuals, we grow cereals and legumes. And we created this system of firsts, well there's never a beginning and an ending because it's a cycle. But at this point of the cycle, so for example, this plot where we are now, we have grown in the summer of 2024. We grow millet with the sunflower and the black eyed peas. The idea was to pick up or the cash crop was millet, which had run perfectly fine. And then when we take off the crop, We normally, what we do is we put a cover crop. So we harvest that millet with sunflower and black eyed pea. We had just harvested in August. And then in the end of September, we have installed a cover crop. We try to put as many species as we can. We have peas here, radish, oats, clover. Mustard, peas, veg, ray grass, triticale, black oats. So there's a very big variety of species. If we think it's needed, we just smash it part of a cover crop with the animals. And we do no-till seeding again with the cash crop that we want to do. Because this plot where we are, we think there's a lack of still biomass and structure in the soil. We're just going to pass the... roller crimper and then we're gonna seed again millet this year with sunflower and pinto beans for cash crop. So we are no-till for more than 20 years. We start, I think we were one of the first persons to buy, at least there's a brand called Mascio, it's in Italian. We and another farm in Portugal we were the first ones to buy no-till cedar in Portugal.

• Speaker #1

  20 years ago already. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  22 years ago. And that has been a really important decision by not plowing the soil and using no-till system. But here on this side, because we no longer do monocrops, we always grow at least two crops at the same time. Here on this side we can see Okay, so here at this side the last crop or the crop that was before this one was Suden grass with the sunflower and we just have made no-till of triticale with veg. And here we go for the two crops. By doing this double cropping what we see is that One of the most important things is the profitability. So we have more profitability if we consider the amount of seeds of trichical that we are putting in with the veg, because then the veg needs like a stick, a tutor, to be sustained by and we increase the productivity of the two crops. And we are giving different signs, root signs to the soil. It's not just one root sending information. We have a legume and you have a cereal. Three years ago we have abandoned monocrop. Everything that we grow, it's double crop or triple cropping. And the numbers that come out, it's more profitable to do it this way than to do it the other way.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, so if you just grew just the one, the tritical for example, obviously your tritical production would be higher on its own, but if you combine the two here, you actually get more, because they're complementary.

• Speaker #0

  Or the total operation. Why? For example, in Portugal, veg has a very important market. It's a high value. legume. So obviously that we decrease if we would do just tritical. But because we have incorporated another one with high value, the total value of this operation of this plot is more than if you do just one.

• Speaker #1

  So you produce more in total. You have, let's say, free nitrogen because your your vetch is fixing nitrogen in the soil that the tritical can feed from.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  The ecosystem is healthier, so I'm guessing you reduce drastically your input costs.

• Speaker #0

  Exactly.

• Speaker #1

  So it seems to be a win across the board. Why don't we see more people doing that? What's the downside of it?

• Speaker #0

  I don't know. I think the downside is because industry doesn't want it this way. Maybe farmers are not prepared to separate seeds or industry doesn't want to separate seeds. There are some things that I cannot explain or say why, but it makes me a lot of confusion. And we are forgetting a very important thing is the amount of biomass that you are growing here. So after you are harvesting the grain, the amount of biomass that is going to stay with the straw of the triticale and the straw of the veg, it's amazing. When you go and seed your winter cover crop, you're going to have a lot of good mulching. For example, the straw of the veg is really that dark mulching that provides a lot of fungi to the soil. So it's also that there are other things that are not measurable but are quite important.

• Speaker #1

  So you leave all of the material after you harvest the seeds? You leave it all? Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  we just take off the grain and all the material stays here.

• Speaker #1

  Okay, you never use it to feed your animals or do you grow specific crops to feed the animals sometimes?

• Speaker #0

  We don't, we just bale what we really need for the season. And that's going to be never more than 10% of the residual that we generate. All that residual stays on the plot while we are working. That's very important.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. You mentioned the separation of the seeds. Do you have a machine for that? Or do you work with someone else that does that thing?

• Speaker #0

  No, we have a machine. Here in the area, there's no one that will do that for you. But it's not an expensive thing for any normal farmer. We don't have any... philanthropic help so we're just normal farmers we go to we which we we shouldn't go but we also go to the bank and but it's not a it's like it's a simple thing that any farmer that has some area of serious and wisdom should have and should grow at

• Speaker #1

  least at this system fantastic and so we saw the the two halves that work with one big pivot yeah so what you have one half is do your cash crop the other half is the cover crop and it rotates like that yeah

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, so after this cache crop, it's going to come a cover crop. And then after that cover crop, it's going to be a cache crop. And then you always do this kind of rotation. The only thing that changes is that if we can put the animals, we at least want to do the animals one year and a half, one year and a half, that we want them to integrate the plot that we are working.

• Speaker #1

  Okay.

• Speaker #0

  We don't see our system here without the entering of the animals. So animals have to run all the farm. Because of that thing that I explained to you guys, if we know and we have studied the work of the microbiome of the soil, by using the animals, if the animals are improving the work of the microbiome, if the animals are fastening the cycle of nutrients, they are providing that you have more phosphorus, more potassium, more nitrogen, more boron, more zinc, why don't we integrate animals into cropland?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, yeah, okay.

• Speaker #0

  It's a very important thing for us.

• Speaker #1

  And when you're bringing the animals into your cycle, are you planting a specific cover crop that you know is good to be grazed? No, no,

• Speaker #0

  no, it doesn't matter. You can do it so many ways. You can do just pest them. It's all about the way you want to manage them. You can do even bale grazing. You can throw some straw with some seeds and just make them run over. You can make like fast movements, big paddocks, fast movements. It depends always on the amount of animals you have. on the personality you have for moving the fences and what the objective that you wish for your managing animal operation right how has your soil evolved then in the time that you've been doing these practices well i can tell you that we monitor that we are increasing On the olive trees and on the annual plantations we are now, we started with the 1.2% of organic matter, we are now reached 5% of organic matter. And here we started with from the tobacco with 0.75, really low, and we're now in an average of 2.3,

• Speaker #1

  2.4. Wow, that's really really good.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, yeah, for us it's amazing.

• Speaker #1

  Maybe you could... Tell us a little bit about resilience, because it's such a key factor now in today's changing climate. And now having this increase of organic matter, water holding capacity, nutrient cycling, all of these amazing things that you've described. How does that help your resilience?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, okay. So by working with this residual, by not touching the soil and incorporating the no-till system, What you create is the capacity for your system to store carbon so you can feed the soil. Okay, this is a never-ending process. You need to sequester carbon so it can feed the soil, so that the soil can feed the plant, so the plant could be more strong during photosynthesis, because this is what these ones were designed to do. They are like big solar panels. And obviously, working with the residual, you can... also store more water. So even when you do spring summer crops and you irrigate, you have a soil that is capable to store the water, you're gonna spend less water and do a better irrigation season for your spring summer crop. Contrary, if you are in the winter and you have a bad winter with lack of rain, the small amount of rain that comes and if you can store it properly, it just doesn't vanish in the rain, just stays on the soil and can feed your plants. It's also going to give you more profitability to your cereal or legume or whatever operation. So this is creating resilient systems that they can work with the floods and droughts. This is the beautiful thing about working in this system. It's being prepared for everything. almost and you don't stress when oh my god it's i don't have rain for like for three and four weeks like i'm going it's going to be a disaster okay you don't have rain for three or four weeks but maybe uh because you have such a good prepared soil with the lick with the with the small amount of rain that you are having it's

• Speaker #1

  sufficient for you to obtain the profitability that you want before we move on to the very last part of this episode i wanted to thank you for listening for for watching. i put so much work and effort into every single episode and it means the world to me that more and more of you keep coming back every week if you enjoyed this episode don't hesitate to show me some love by subscribing to the channel thank you so much what is one really important lesson that you've you've learned as a farmer that you'd like to pass on to other people always

• Speaker #0

  Try first to understand nature before you do. anything that concerns or that is connected to farming. Don't look at the farm as a farming operation. Look at the farm as an ecosystem.

• Speaker #1

  Okay. And what's the biggest mistake you've made?

• Speaker #0

  A big mistake that sometimes I continue to do is give more time to observing. In a specific case, to observe soil. to really understand that it's a living being and he has different behaviors. It's not always the same every year. So sometimes not giving that time to observation, it has been putting me in making bad choices and obviously bad results of whatever I'm doing. And I still, sometimes I still do it.

• Speaker #1

  If you could imagine Just one perfect day. If you had to live the same day over and over forever, but you could design it to be the most perfect day for you, what would it look like?

• Speaker #0

  It would be just spending an all day at the farm, well, with my family.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah?

• Speaker #0

  I think it's just like being here and doing, I don't know, doing... the things that I normally, that I like to do on the farm with tranquility, but it will be having my sons around me and trying to pass them some of that observation that I was speaking about, explain to them because they are the future to not to rush. To be calm, to see, to listen, to feel. That's a perfect day when you can have all that sensibility of the place where you are. doing your operation.

• Speaker #1

  That's amazing, yeah. And share that with the family.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, exactly.

• Speaker #1

  That's great. I think we're going to close this conversation on this beautiful note. I think there's no better way to finish this. It's been an amazing pleasure to visit this beautiful farm.

• Speaker #0

  It's been amazing. It's been a pleasure to have you. I'm sorry I didn't have that more time, but it was also a very crazy week for me.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that was fantastic and I'm super happy that we got to visit the farm to talk to you. And I'm sure that the people listening and the people watching would appreciate it as well.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, thank you Raphaël. Thank you so much.

• Speaker #1

  I just want to mention here that we also recorded an amazing conversation with Diogo, the R&D manager of the farm. We get really deep into soil science, into biodiversity, into a lot of super interesting topics. And that conversation was so good that we decided to release it separately as an independent episode, which will be available in the next few days.