- Speaker #0
Hello! Passionate about sustainability, energy and climate? You're in the right place. Welcome to Energetic. I'm Maureen Cornelis and together we will engage with people who dedicate their lives to climate justice and making a just energy transition happen. They may be activists, scientists, policy makers or other enthusiasts just like you. Let their life stories and insights inspire you to build a better future for people and the planet. So today we welcome on the show William Brandt, who is a climate solution advocate and entrepreneur. He's the CMO of Hesk Power Systems, where he helps lead one of the world's top community solar companies, named among Fast Company's most innovative companies of 2024. And before that, he co-founded Power for All, an NGO focused on ending energy poverty, and led the clean tech practice at Weber Schoenwick, a global marketing agency. William, welcome to the show. I'm delighted to have you here.
- Speaker #1
Thank you so much. It's great to be here.
- Speaker #0
Thank you so much. William, you've had quite a diverse career in the energy space, from co-founding PowerFall to leading marketing at Aspire Systems. So what drew you first to work on energy justice, this kind of systemic inequities we see in the energy sector, and how has your perspective evolved over time?
- Speaker #1
So I think originally my... inspiration for getting involved in climate and climate solutions was sparked by my time in China. I lived in China for 15 years during a period where the country was essentially going from a very undeveloped economy coming out of the Cultural Revolution to the time I left when it had already been started to boom, where private industry was being encouraged after decades of state control. And that was an exciting backdrop. for my 20s to be a witness to that incredible transformation that started in the early 90s, early mid-90s. But it also made me realize that the limits of the traditional model for development, economic development, especially as the question of climate change, global warming, started to really come to the forefront of the global discussion. It was pretty clear to me that despite the excitement and the benefits to the Chinese people that were coming from this economic explosion that was happening, that there were going to be huge ramifications globally in terms of climate, environmental impact. And after watching that transition within China, I decided that I had been in the media and entertainment business prior to that. I thought I really would rather do something that was a little bit more meaningful to me that I thought I could make an impact on. And so I moved back to the U.S. from China in the early 2000s. started to focus on these issues. And then 10, 15 years later, having moved from the U.S. to Europe and always had a very strong interest in Africa and the global south, I was able to start to do more that sort of bridged both the climate impact and the people impact by focusing on energy access and the role for renewable energy and other clean tech solutions to actually accelerate access to electricity and clean cooking for the... hundreds of millions of people in the global South who still don't have it. The arc of my career, in a brief description, things have certainly changed in terms of the energy access agenda since I've been involved in that now for about a decade. It's really elevated. It's position in a global development discussion. That's now a key priority of the World Bank, the African Development Bank, and in terms of a new initiative that they've launched earlier this year called Mission 300, which is to connect, not to connect, but to bring energy access to 300 million people. So that would not have been the case 10 years ago when I first started working on this issue. So that's a very encouraging sign that this is a target that people are now taking very seriously and trying to mobilize resources. financial and otherwise, to finally end energy poverty.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's really fascinating to hear you talk about how your career has evolved and over also over the past 30, 40 years. And your, let's say, take on the world has evolved as well and through across different continents. It's not often that I have guests on the show who are able to talk about the situation in very different settings, different continents and over. different periods of time, right? I was born in the
- Speaker #1
80s. You're saying I'm old? Is that what you're saying? Yeah.
- Speaker #0
I mean, we get a lot from you. You have a lot of wisdom to share. Because I was born in the 80s, so I never knew a world that was different from the kind of economic boom of China. What I can hear from what you say is that there is, you had this kind of aha moment where you start questioning really the models that we were building on. And you've been also witnessing how, let's say, the energy and access and overall equity has been challenged and redefined over time, right? But you are a thinker, you're also a doer, and that's why you are involved in different initiatives. But recently we reconnected because we have been in touch for quite some time, but we reconnected because you wrote an article, you shared it on LinkedIn, which was exactly about that, about how the vision of the sustainable development goals, energy justice needs to be adapted and be a little bit more grounded into reality, right? In this article, you argue that the Sustainable Development Goals, SDGs, in particular, number seven, which is on energy access, are missing the mark. And you just said that there were some really important initiatives from the World Bank, and I will let you develop on this, but can you explain what it says? as the biggest systemic issues preventing us from achieving universal energy access. You have decades of experience, so that's really fascinating to hear what you have seen also as positive point and failures, right?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, so on the positive, let's start there. There's an industry that's been built up over the past, let's say, 15 years, focused on delivering energy access in the global south. This is still a huge issue. I would say it's a human rights issue, ultimately. where you have around 700 million people in the global south who have zero access to electricity. You have many more who have no access to clean cooking. And the private sector solutions to solve that problem started to emerge in about a decade ago. You had companies that were starting to take advantage of the decline in solar PV and other renewable energy technologies, battery storage, and delivering. basic levels of electricity that allowed people with no electricity to have lights in their home, to charge their cell phones, to maybe power a couple of small appliances. And they innovated both business model and technology to achieve incredible results over that 10 years, where you now have hundreds of millions of people in those communities in sub-Saharan Africa, South Asia, and elsewhere who have access to basic... levels of electricity. And that's a phenomenal improvement of what was there before, right? Where you had generations of people in these countries who had, nobody was thinking of them. No one was really doing anything to that for, to address this issue. The extending the grid had been talked about forever. Nothing was happening. So these companies came in and they did some incredible work and continue to do that work. The issue is that because of the economics of both the consumer and the product. many people still can't afford these solutions. That's one dynamic. At the same time, even the people who can't afford those solutions often want more than what they can provide, right? I think that there is a human nature for us to want to have access to the things that our cousins or friends in cities have. If you're living in a rural or peri-urban areas in these countries, you want to have a better life. And what does that mean? It means you need enough energy that can empower an economy. So While accessing phone charging, lighting is important, it's really not what ultimately people want at the end of the day, right? The human nature is that I want to be able to live my best life. I want access to education, healthcare, all the things that energy enable, right? Where we are today is that number one, we're still only reaching the cream of the crop, if you will. These are still people who are, they don't earn a lot of money in the bottom of the pyramid structure. which sort of is what we're talking about, people who have the lowest incomes in the world, we're only still reaching the top of that pyramid, right? The middle of that pyramid and the bottom of that pyramid are still out of reach. So number one, we have to figure out, are we doing enough to give additional energy services to the people who already have it that we've brought electricity to over the past decade? But also how do we reach those people at the bottom, the middle and the bottom, right? Who are totally forgotten and being left behind. So I think it's a two-part dynamic, right? On the one hand, we have to continue up that energy ladder with the people that we've already provided basic levels of electricity to and try and create more opportunity for them, while we also have to figure out what are the models that can actually deliver electricity to the people in the middle and the bottom of that pyramid. And I think the institutions that we have today are from another era, right? They were created when many of the solutions that we're talking about didn't exist. They're used to doing...
- Speaker #0
And no longer fit for purpose, yeah?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, exactly. Or time or purpose. And these are endemic problems that have been around for generations. And unless there's a shift, not only in mindset and that the leaders of these institutions really are serious about reforming them. We're not going to be able to solve this problem. And that's what SDG 7 is. The stated goal is to solve this issue by 2030. And we're very far off track from doing that. In fact, we're actually growing. The population of unelectrified is growing instead of decreasing now. It decreased for quite some time, but now it's starting to grow back again. And are the World Bank, are the African Development Bank, the right institutions, is the United Nations? Does it have a role to play here? I think there are big question marks, development finance institutions, even governments and private sector. I think there are still a lot of legacy systems in place. And unless those change quickly, I think the chance that we're going to achieve these goals is really out of reach. And so I think it's encouraging that there's a greater focus on this issue now. But I have serious concerns about whether the institutions we're discussing are actually the ones who can solve the problem. And if they can't. Then the question becomes, what other alternatives need to be developed? Or how did those institutions reform quickly in order to meet their mandate? And I think the article that you referenced, those are some of the questions I was raising, but also trying to think about, okay, what are the solutions to making that possible?
- Speaker #0
We'll get into it now. But in the article, you coined the term access washing, which I think is really perfect to highlight this kind of misleading progress in energy access. This It's basically you make one step up and two step back. And what kind of real world example have you noticed? You just mentioned people from the top tier accessing more electricity, but on the bottom, not getting any more electricity that they would actually need. Is it something from your experience with the different company organizations you've worked on? Are they particular examples that you could share? Because most of the listeners of the show are in Europe. And they may not know so much about the challenges in the developing countries. Right. So can you share a few examples? I think what you essentially said is that there is somehow a, let's say, a privatization of energy access or the process because many governments and public institutions cannot get to that. So can you share some examples? Right.
- Speaker #1
So in terms of this idea of access washing, I was intentionally being trying to be provocative because. I think there's oftentimes a lot of people patting each other on the back for what we've already achieved, when in fact, if you go back to the sustainable development goal framework, especially for energy access, it states clearly that the goal is affordable, sustainable, reliable, and modern energy. And there's a lot of debate about what modern means, and I don't want to get into that because I think it's, we don't have enough time, but... If you just take modern, that word at its face value, what would you and I define as modern electricity, right? It would be, or as energy, right? It would be, I could have multiple appliances in my home and afford to have those, right? And it would be energy efficient. And I could buy machines for my business or for my farming operations that would allow me to mechanize and create more income and create, build my business or my, whatever it is that I'm doing, hire more people. create economic opportunity for my neighbors. That's modern energy, right? So this is within the UN framework. That's one of the goals for SDG 7. If that is part of the target, we need to be honest with ourselves that even though we've made huge progress over the past decade, we're still not providing people with modern energy. And in that sense, it is access washing, right? Because you are providing access to energy, but it's the bare minimum. And if the goal, as stated by SDG 7, is modern energy, or at least one of the goals is modern energy, then we need to be honest with ourselves as a community that we're not achieving that ambition. And so I also worry that the institutions that are trying to, so for example, this Mission 300 program that the World Bank and African Development Bank launched earlier this year, it's to bring electricity to 300 million people in Africa by 2030. So that's fantastic, right? It's great to have that. momentum and moving in that direction. But are we going to be tracking for basic levels of energy access or modern levels of energy access? And we need to be very clear, not only with ourselves, but also with the people who are going to be accessing that energy access, what it is we're actually trying to achieve. So you could make the case that what we've provided to date is not modern energy and therefore it's access washing. So even though if we have provided basic levels of access to hundreds of millions of people. It's not modern, right? So is it washing? I think that's a question that we need to really look hard at.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, I totally agree with you. I did some work in Africa, as the listeners know. And what I really noticed as part of, let's say, the broader conversation is that we were never mentioning the quality of the electricity supplied, right? It was like, OK, now you have solar panels, you're good to go. No, it's not only about that. It's being sure that you actually get what you paid for. You actually are engaged in a proper conversation saying, OK, you will have access to electricity only for six hours a day, but maybe it's sufficient. But at least when you are not like embarking in this kind of white savior approach where, let's say, the provider of the service or the solution or the organization that will help you. will tell you something that is actually not what it is and that is deceptive at least, or not making such a huge difference in your life at the end of the day. So I guess it's also about overcoming the fact that people are living without electricity and they are coping in certain ways and they need to be... way more part of the conversation and ask what they actually want and how we can always improve, right? Because it's not only about the base, having access to electricity a few hours a day for a few services like charging your phone or a little lamp, but also being able to provide a certain quality of the service in a certain way with certain respect for consumer rights and so on.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, but I think it's all, so it also comes down to a recognition that, you know, Rural electrification, wherever it's happened in the world, has been heavily subsidized by the state or by other organizations that can provide subsidy or concessional capital to make that possible. I think there was this pipe dream at the beginning of our industry that the private sector would come in and be able to save the day and provide electricity to all of the unelectrified people who are suffering from energy poverty still for generations. But the reality is that... Even the private sector has limitations to what it can do, right? And we've done a lot over the past decade. There needs to be a recognition that there are many people who suffer from energy poverty in these communities who are never going to be able to afford the services that we're talking about. And if they are, it's going to take a long time for them to be able to pay for these services. If you recognize that the model for rural electrification has always relied heavily on subsidy, then there needs to be a real serious cut, real... very serious conversation about where that capital will come from. Is it going to come from the governments of those countries? Is it going to come from development finance institutions, philanthropy? And that's a huge blind spot and a huge gap in terms of capital available to do that. But if we're going to, let's say of the 300 million of this mission, 300, 100 million of them can't afford the services that we're talking about. Who's going to pay for that, right? I think that's a huge gap currently. And I also think it comes back to a lot of the development finance institutions, which I also talk about in that article, which is that they were founded upon the mandate of trying to end poverty, essentially, right? But they've evolved over the decades since their creation into entities that are essentially looking for commercial returns on their investments, right? As opposed to putting in risk capital that they're willing to lose, right? Or that there's the potential that it might be lost and that they won't make a return on that investment. But that's totally, I would say, for the most part, it's that mindset has disappeared, right? And so you have a huge gap there that needs to be addressed in terms of what is the mandate for the development finance institutions? Are they actually investing risk capital? Are they willing to take a loss? Are they fulfilling their original mandate? And I think the answer, unfortunately, today is probably not. And that needs to be... addressed, right? And you also have in Europe in particular, this resurgence of the far right movements at the national level, which means a retrenchment in overseas development funding, which is a separate dynamic as well, which is going to make it even more difficult. So you have these two different dynamics that were both looking more internally, globally within the advanced economies, not willing to fund development as much as they used to, but also the type of funding that they're putting out there is also not what. It's supposed to be. Right. And so there are a lot of things that I think go unspoken or if they are spoken, they're spoken about in private. And it really needs to become a more public discourse about this. And it has to also include governments. Right. A lot of governments are already in Africa, for example, are doing quite a bit. Nigeria, for example, I think, has taken more than a billion dollars of loans from the World Bank to try and address this issue. And so they're stepping up and taking their responsibility. But these other institutions have to do the same in a way. that recognizes that middle of the pyramid, bottom of the pyramid, they're not going to get electrified unless there's a huge amount of subsidy to do that on an ongoing basis, right? This may be perpetual. We don't know. This is how it's happened worldwide. Africa, South Asia should be no exception, but that capital is not available. And also I would say that these are communities that are the most climate vulnerable. Yeah. Yeah. They've had the least contribution to climate change, but they're still receiving the communities, the regions where these communities are based, they still receive hardly anything in terms of investment, right? And subsidy. And so that's also a disconnect in the climate adaptation finances. pretty much non-existent still where that would come from, but that hasn't been mobilized and I'm not holding my breath for that to happen. So there's just a, there's a lot of structural systemic issues plus the political economy that exists between the donor countries and the recipient countries that makes things very complicated. And this is not an easy solve for what we're trying to achieve, but there needs to be much more public discourse and dialogue. to at least identify the issues and try and figure out how do we fill those gaps.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, that's really interesting. That's really, I like the development finance institutions look very risk averse from what I can hear. And you're quite vocal about this topic that there needs to be a proper conversation, a proper, let's say a more transparent multi-level governance. I hate the term multi-level governance because it's very jargony and Anytime I hear it, I want to say bingo. But I guess it's really about building the proper partnerships that can build the success of those initiatives. But in practice, what would be needed, in your view, to build these partnerships? Because the episode will be broadcast just a few days before the beginning of COP29 in Baku, Azerbaijan. And there will be a lot of discussion around climate finance and so on. But it's not only about climate, as you said. It's also about justice, about providing people with the ways to live, the means to live a more decent life, to make sure that the community least most affected by climate change, but least responsible for it, do actually become resilient in a way and live a better life despite the enormous challenges they face. I'm also thinking, for instance, of... displaced population because of climate change and so on. So do you have any, let's say, positive experience you think you could draw from to think of, let's say, ways to overcome the challenges that we are facing now? Because I'm feeling a little bit depressed now. So can you, can, what do we need to do?
- Speaker #1
So I think there needs, so I think at the end of the day, and I don't know if this is, it's not really a recommendation per se, it's a call to action. I think that what the World Bank and African Development Bank have done demonstrates leadership. At least they've put this out there as an objective, and they're working to try and achieve that objective. But those are institutions that have been around since Bretton Woods, who are very entrenched in their ways. And I think reforming them is going to be very difficult to do in a short period of time. So I think more of those leaders... like Ajay Banga at the World Bank, are needed. And leadership in general is needed. Whether they're able to overcome the inertia of those institutions in a timeframe that's going to actually address the issue is a big question mark in my mind. But I think that type of leadership, which is basically saying, we're going to try and press down the institutional interests that have governed these bodies for decades. and address these problems from a people-centric perspective and really try to think about those people, first and foremost, whose lives we're trying to improve. That's a huge need. And I don't think we're seeing that type of leadership across all of these institutions. I think you're seeing it in small pockets, but then they also have to bring their institutions along with them. That's very difficult. Not to mention, I think the other thing is that in order to be successful, the need for collaboration and partnership is essential. Right. And one of the other things in that article that I talk about is that I don't see any of that in the true sense of partnership. Right. I think everybody is still very institutionally oriented. And I don't know how to create a more efficient deployment of resources, both human and capital. But it's going to require people saying and looking at what they do very honestly and saying, we don't we shouldn't be doing this. It's already being done by that person. Let's take all of our resources. and put them over there with this organization is already working on this, doing quite well, instead of starting some new program, some new fund. I think that there has to be some sort of consolidation, aggregation, and harmonization of resources in order to achieve these goals on the timeline that they're expected to be achieved on. So I think the positive is that as a private sector, we've made a huge impact over the past 10 years. We've made a difference in terms of taking this issue and elevating it up to the top of the global development agenda. Now we just need to figure out or leaders need to step up and drive the change that's required. Now, are they going to be able to do that in the timeframe required? I don't know. But ultimately, for me, it comes down to... The courage of that leadership to actually look in the mirror, both as government, as development finance institutions, as private sector, and say, okay, you know, these are the gaps that need to be filled. What can I do to reform my institution, to partner with others, to make that more possible than it is today? And I think we're still stuck in a little bit of a time warp on those issues. And in order for it to actually change. It's going to require leadership. That's going to be very difficult in today's geopolitical environment. But that's what I think ultimately it comes down to. I think there are a lot of good organizations, civil society, working from the bottom up as well. But that takes even longer, right? That type of change is probably more sustainable over time. But if we're talking about speed and scale, without that leadership, I think we're not going to get anywhere close to where we need to.
- Speaker #0
That's really interesting. Interesting and inspiring. So is it something that you aim to do or develop or are already doing with the HESPARIS systems or with your end powerful?
- Speaker #1
So I'm no longer involved day-to-day in Power for All. I support their work. But yes, those types of organizations, Sustainable Energy for All or SE for All, which is affiliated with the United Nations, I think the CEO of that organization, Dami Lola, OOB is also doing some. very important work. There are other organizations that are working on the advocacy side to try and mobilize movement. As a private sector, Husk Power Systems, my company, we're a mini grid developer. We electrify rural communities with solar energy and provide a range of services that improve education, healthcare, economic activity, et cetera, et cetera, in those communities. We're actually at the moment working, we're trying to put together a group of leaders from the industry. to outline very clearly for the development finance community what it is we need in order to achieve that mission 300 target because what we need and what so i think what one of the issues is that a lot of these organizations that have put these pronouncements out there they have expected the private sector to meet them where they are what we're trying to say to them is you need to meet us where we are right there are huge challenges for us to scale at the speed that mission 300 will require to meet their targets but we're not seeing the type of support needed for the private sector to actually make that possible we're in the process of trying to really mobilize leading companies in our sector to outline what those things are and make sure that it's front and center for all of those institutions so that they understand full well for if we're going to help them meet their targets they need to really be
- Speaker #0
thinking differently yeah it's not either Or it's really together that you need to define those kind of goals and objectives and make sure that something concrete happens. And right now, when you mention this, I think, for instance, of the grant application and so on, that can be extremely complicated and time consuming. And there are, of course, there is super needed, but they are not the only, let's say, challenge you face because you also face regulatory issues. You need to have some kind of streamlined processes and so on. So. I guess that it's also about getting a framework that makes those partnerships deliver.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I think there's a lot of bureaucracy in what we're talking about that slows everything down. So that's the speed element, right? How do you make that more efficient? But also there is a quantum element as well, right? In terms of capital that's required. We're talking about tens of billions of dollars here. A lot of that's going to need to be subsidy and grants. Where is that coming from? Right now, we're still stuck in pilot phase with a lot of these things. And how do we get from pilot to scale and really not only mobilize the development finance institutions, but also have what do they need to do? The climate funds, the pension funds, what do they need to do to crowd in without pension funds, but the climate funds that have more concessional capital, the DFIs that have more concessional capital, what do they need to do to crowd in the private equity firms, the sovereign wealth funds, the pension funds and others?
- Speaker #0
who are on the sidelines of this issue still, because we're going to have to mobilize all the whole spectrum of capital to get to the end goal. And right now, we only have bits and pieces of that spectrum in place. So there's a lot of work that needs to be done as well to mobilize bigger sums of money to achieve these targets.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, and that's really interesting because that's exactly one of the points of the discussion at COP29 in Baku, right? The finance part, the finance bits. Everybody at the end of the day is understanding that it's all about mobilizing money, whether it's for climate change or for equity and addressing those equity issues that are even more visible because of climate change and climate warming. We are reaching the end of the conversation, William, and I would really love to hear from you if you had. Maybe, let's say, one tip for somebody who would be listening to the podcast today and would want to change the world in a way or make sure that it delivers more equity. What would you really recommend with your years of experience? They are so interesting that you have experience from the telecom sector, from the marketing sector, from as a journalist as well. You worked as a journalist, right? So what could people actually do? I always end the podcast with a positive note because I think it's about empowering people. It's not only about inspiring, but also about empowering people to be the change they want to see in the world.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. So personally, I'm always committed to trying to help the next generation figure out how they can play a role in all of this. And I'm always open to people reaching out to me on LinkedIn or however else. And I'll always try and find a time to talk to them and support what they're doing. because we need more people involved in these issues in all aspects. So that's number one, just find me. And if I can help you, I will. The other thing is, I think if you're, for me anyway, and this is more from my own personal experience, I was in China for 15 years. I watched that transformation of a country. I think one of the most exciting things for me today, Don King as well. but exciting is what's going to happen in Africa. And if I were 20, and I say this regularly to my friends when they ask me this question, if I were my 20-year-old self moving to China back in the day, today, would I still go there or would I go somewhere else? Absolutely, I'd move to Africa. I would move to Africa in a heartbeat. If I were 20 years old today, I'd move to Africa because I think that's a place where you can not only do well. as a career, but you can do good in a major way. There's huge resource constraints there, huge need for additional capacity. I don't care where you are, where you're from, there's impact that you could potentially achieve working with people from those countries in Africa, of course, but I would move there in a heartbeat. And that's for foreigners, right? But if you're an African working on issues in Africa. When you need access to international capital markets or whatever, that's where people should come to me and I can try and help them. But this is going to take so much to try and turn Africa into what I think it can and should be, which is like a really shiny example of what the future looks like. That's a very young continent. There's so much potential there and there's so much need there. So I don't know. That would be my two cents, right? Go somewhere in Africa. Figure out who's doing what on the ground there, see how you can contribute, and you'll make an impact. And hopefully learn some things and do well in the process.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I've been working with African organizations, youth organizations, working in FASO. Shout out to my friend, Jean-Zacteur de l'énergie and Dimitri Titanga. I am genuinely impressed by their work ethic and about how much they want things to improve for their countries. And they often tell me how difficult it is for them to access funding because of the, let's say, political situation they face. They are absolutely not responsible for that, but they want really to make a difference and deal with those kind of challenges as well.
- Speaker #0
Just one last thought. So I have a friend who's from Somalia, and he has a company that's similar to ours, building renewable energy projects in Somalia, which is a tough place to do business, right? You can imagine there's a lot of... instability there. This guy is super smart. He's built a company on a shoestring. He's totally bootstrapped it and he's turned it into a company that's growing and is quite successful. He needs so much help to do, to get from where he is today to the next phase of where that company could potentially be. Unfortunately, we know because of our investors and other things. We're not in a position to do that with him, but he's one of these people. And there's so many of them in Africa who are onto something, doing something really impactful already and need that additional support to get to the next stage. And that's what I mean when I say find these people because they're out there and they're doing amazing things already and they need help.
- Speaker #1
Exactly. So it's all about connecting the dots. And that's what, at the end of the day, this podcast is. Please, listeners, contact William if you need some tips or some ideas. I will put the article you wrote in the show notes because it's very informative. And yes, I guess it's also about at our own level, really try to challenge the status quo as much as we can and really get into knowing each other because that's what makes a difference, right? It's also a lot of human to human connection that makes a difference. Thank you so much, William, for this really inspiring conversation.
- Speaker #0
Thank you so much.
- Speaker #2
Thank you for tuning in to another episode of Energetic. It's been a pleasure diving deep into the world of sustainability and the just energy transition with some of the most forward thinking mouths out there. I'm Maureen Connelly, your host from Policy Consultancy, Next Energy Consumer, and it's been an incredible journey growing this podcast together with you, our knowledgeable and passionate listeners. Since 2021, we've shared countless stories, insights, and ideas over more than 14 episodes. And it's all thanks to your support and enthusiasm. If you've enjoyed our journey so far and want to help us keep the conversation going, why not support us on Patreon? Every bit helps us bring more inspiring content your way. Check out the show notes for the link. And hey, if you're a part of an organization that shares our passion for a sustainable and inclusive energy future, we're excited to explore sponsorship opportunities with you. It's a fantastic way to connect with a dedicated audience and make an even bigger impact together. Shout out to the fantastic Igor Mikhailovich from Podcast Media Factory for his incredible sound design work, making every episode a joy to listen to. If you haven't already, make sure to subscribe to Energetic on your favorite podcast platform. And if you think a friend or colleague could benefit from our episode, we'd love for you to spread the word. It helps us grow and keep the energy transition conversation alive. Sharing is caring. Follow us on Twitter and LinkedIn to stay engaged and update on all things energetic. Thanks once again for lending your ears. Until next time.
