Description
How is Europe turning climate commitments into enforceable rights? Gianluca Esposito of the Council of Europe reveals how new legal standards are fighting ecocide and defending the right to a healthy environment.
Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.
Transcription
Welcome to Europe Explained, brought to you by the Council of Europe. This podcast series offers a unique window into what we're doing to create a fairer, more democratic Europe. Through conversations with experts and frontline workers, we bring you closer to the issues that matter, from fighting discrimination to upholding human rights, from defending democracy to building laws, systems, and institutions. that are just, fair and open to all.
Gianluca is, or has been since 2024, Director General of Human Rights and Rule of Law at the Council of Europe. But he's had quite an extensive and influential career in the organisation. Prior to that, he was Director of the Private Office of the Secretary General and the Deputy Secretary General, as well as Executive Secretary of GRECO, where he was overseeing the... Council of Europe and European efforts to fight corruption. He's also been involved in negotiating major conventions on a number of different issues, including cybercrime, human trafficking, efficiency of justice, and beyond the Council of Europe. He was a senior counsel at the International Monetary Fund in, I think it's Washington, isn't it? Yeah. So please join me in welcoming Gianluca Esposito.
Thank you very much, Jeremy. Thank you and good morning, everybody. I'm really honored and pleased to be here with you today in this panel. And I have to say I was very much inspired by the Vice President's speeches and comments. things that I would have liked to add also, and I might do that while I speak. I think on a couple of points, we are pretty, we should be at least, pretty clear. The first one is that we are facing an existential challenge, an existential crisis, that we have to do something something now and not tomorrow. I think on that it's pretty acknowledged. I hope that the data is strong enough for us to know and to acknowledge the fact that we need to act now. I suspect that there is no intellectually honest person who can argue the opposite. So once we have understood that we have to act now, we want to see what the political commitment has been. And we are the Council of Europe, so we are not... we are broader than the European Union. We had a summit a couple of years ago in Iceland, and I'm very happy to see here the Icelandic ambassador down there. And the European leaders, actually 41 heads of state, acknowledged and committed to take action to address climate change, pollution, and biodiversity loss. Now, I'm one of those who continue to believe that when leaders make statements, they mean what they say, right? I mean, they believe in the fact that they... this action is required. And so what my job is today is to try to tell you where we are at the Council of Europe two years on, what have we done and what have we not done. and see where we're going from here. The first thing that we have done is the recognition of the key role young people play in our collective action to tackle climate change. And this is a recognition in the Council of Europe is strong, is clear. Our parliamentarians, the Parliamentary Assembly have acknowledged that. Our committee of ministers, the governments have acknowledged that. The way in which we in the secretariat work in the Council of Europe has acknowledged that. A pretty strong co-decision-making process in the Council of Europe. I'm glad to see our young colleagues here on my right. So we have an acknowledgement that the issue, that young people are not just victims, but they are actually actors and leaders in this area. That's the first thing we have tried to do. The second thing that we succeeded in doing, not without difficulties, and it's not over yet, but I think we are getting there, is to acknowledge the... the fact that environmental crimes are bad and we need to fight against them. We acknowledge the fact that environmental crimes constitute still today the third highest proceeds generating crime in Europe. It is a multi-billion dollar industry. And even our human rights court, very recently, a couple of weeks ago, issued a judgment in relation to an area that I know very well, because it's where I come from, called the Terradate Walkie. It's near Naples, where the court recognized. the right of persons to a healthy environment in an area that is completely polluted, totally polluted. And without wishing to add to my CV, because that's the official CV, but I was interested because, you know, where I come from, when I was a... much younger than them, I was also cleaning up. And then at some point I thought, well, perhaps I should try to do something else to address it rather than collecting the garbage. But this judgment of the court actually deals with illegal waste management. And so we managed to come up with a treaty, with a convention that combats environmental crimes, that criminalizes pollution, illegal logging, hazardous wastes, and also, although the word is difficult to acknowledge by some, also the issue of ecocide. This treaty is now pending before the Parliamentary Assembly, before our parliamentarians in our consultation process, and I hope that the Parliamentary Assembly will soon provide its opinion and for adoption soon and enter into force and countries can cooperate better amongst themselves to combat these crimes. So this is the second, I would say, on the plus column, that's where we are. Now we have a third little plus, which I'm going to mention, and that is the fact that we just finalized for us in the Council of Europe a strategy on the environment. which actually will help us sort of guide the operations of the organization and also the budget of the organization towards actions that are environmentally friendly on one hand and that combat the climate crisis on the other hand. So three on the plus column. Now I'm going to have to go on the minus column, I'm afraid. And where is the minus? The minus is that there is still an ongoing debate, a very lively debate. about whether or not the right to a healthy environment is a fundamental human rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. Now our parliamentary assembly, and I see the former president who is here Rick Dems who was chairing these sessions, our parliamentary assembly and the parliamentarians have been very clear the answer is yes. Obviously, when it moves to the government, it becomes a little bit more complicated. And as we speak today, believe it or not, there are not less than nine options on the table. Nine. nine options on the table to decide whether or not we're going to make the right to a healthy environment an enforceable right under the convention. Now, that's important because some people say, well, in the UN General Assembly already, there have been resolutions acknowledging the right to a healthy environment as a human right. Parliamentary Assembly also has done that. But of course, adding a protocol to the Human Rights Convention means that people have the right to go to the court and get... judgment in their favor for violation of the right to a healthy environment and that is a big difference of course. Now this discussion is ongoing. I do not have the answer to that discussion. I don't see an end in sight, might I add. So we're here, continuing discussions and the options are on the table. I can give you the options. One, broadly speaking, is a protocol to the Human Rights Convention. A second option is to draft a protocol to another treaty that we have called the European Social Charter. Now looking at the social side, another group of people think that we should do a separate treaty only on the right to a healthy environment, which would however not be subject to the European Court direct decision making, and some think that we should do nothing at all. So there is everything from the maximum to the lowest possible spectrum and everything in between, and discussion is ongoing on this. Now, what's happening in the meantime, however, is that our judges, the European Court of Human Rights, keep judging because cases keep coming in. And by the way, not just our international judges, the European Court of Human Rights, but also national courts. In the Netherlands, there have been cases. In France, there have been cases at national level where courts have been stepping in for, shall I call it, the lack of action in this area. I think governments face, and parliamentarians at the national level anyway, face a choice. They can either decide to frame what the right to a healthy environment is and frame it for the courts to operate in that framework. or they can decide not to do that. But if they don't, then the courts will judge. And judges are independent. If you believe in the rule of law, they will issue judgments as they come, and they have. In the recent months, the European Court of Human Rights issued a case against Switzerland. where it's a Klima Seniorinen versus Switzerland, and in this case, an association of elderly women managed to demonstrate that the climate crisis has a disproportionately negative impact on their... category of persons as opposed to the others. They want the case and Switzerland is obliged to implement that judgment. We are in the course of doing that implementation process. But when you look at this judgment, frankly, I've been doing this job for about 30 years now. I don't know any country that would not find itself in the exact same position as Switzerland. So the reality is that any other... Senior women association in any of our member states can bring a case and most likely we'll get it. So while the discussion is ongoing courts are judging. And of course courts are independent and they continue to judge. So I will stop here, Jeremy, give the opportunity for a discussion. But that is where we are. That's the landscape in which we are operating in the Council of Europe. And I want to thank you for this initiative. Thanks to the Parliamentary Assembly. I really congratulate the. young colleagues here because they are taking a leading role and so it should be and it's our job to support and encourage that. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Gianluca.
If you enjoyed this discussion and wish to explore more topics, be sure to check out the episodes of Europe Explained. You can learn more about the Council of Europe and its initiatives at our website, coe.int. And don't forget to follow us on social media. for the latest updates and insights. You can find us on X, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
Description
How is Europe turning climate commitments into enforceable rights? Gianluca Esposito of the Council of Europe reveals how new legal standards are fighting ecocide and defending the right to a healthy environment.
Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.
Transcription
Welcome to Europe Explained, brought to you by the Council of Europe. This podcast series offers a unique window into what we're doing to create a fairer, more democratic Europe. Through conversations with experts and frontline workers, we bring you closer to the issues that matter, from fighting discrimination to upholding human rights, from defending democracy to building laws, systems, and institutions. that are just, fair and open to all.
Gianluca is, or has been since 2024, Director General of Human Rights and Rule of Law at the Council of Europe. But he's had quite an extensive and influential career in the organisation. Prior to that, he was Director of the Private Office of the Secretary General and the Deputy Secretary General, as well as Executive Secretary of GRECO, where he was overseeing the... Council of Europe and European efforts to fight corruption. He's also been involved in negotiating major conventions on a number of different issues, including cybercrime, human trafficking, efficiency of justice, and beyond the Council of Europe. He was a senior counsel at the International Monetary Fund in, I think it's Washington, isn't it? Yeah. So please join me in welcoming Gianluca Esposito.
Thank you very much, Jeremy. Thank you and good morning, everybody. I'm really honored and pleased to be here with you today in this panel. And I have to say I was very much inspired by the Vice President's speeches and comments. things that I would have liked to add also, and I might do that while I speak. I think on a couple of points, we are pretty, we should be at least, pretty clear. The first one is that we are facing an existential challenge, an existential crisis, that we have to do something something now and not tomorrow. I think on that it's pretty acknowledged. I hope that the data is strong enough for us to know and to acknowledge the fact that we need to act now. I suspect that there is no intellectually honest person who can argue the opposite. So once we have understood that we have to act now, we want to see what the political commitment has been. And we are the Council of Europe, so we are not... we are broader than the European Union. We had a summit a couple of years ago in Iceland, and I'm very happy to see here the Icelandic ambassador down there. And the European leaders, actually 41 heads of state, acknowledged and committed to take action to address climate change, pollution, and biodiversity loss. Now, I'm one of those who continue to believe that when leaders make statements, they mean what they say, right? I mean, they believe in the fact that they... this action is required. And so what my job is today is to try to tell you where we are at the Council of Europe two years on, what have we done and what have we not done. and see where we're going from here. The first thing that we have done is the recognition of the key role young people play in our collective action to tackle climate change. And this is a recognition in the Council of Europe is strong, is clear. Our parliamentarians, the Parliamentary Assembly have acknowledged that. Our committee of ministers, the governments have acknowledged that. The way in which we in the secretariat work in the Council of Europe has acknowledged that. A pretty strong co-decision-making process in the Council of Europe. I'm glad to see our young colleagues here on my right. So we have an acknowledgement that the issue, that young people are not just victims, but they are actually actors and leaders in this area. That's the first thing we have tried to do. The second thing that we succeeded in doing, not without difficulties, and it's not over yet, but I think we are getting there, is to acknowledge the... the fact that environmental crimes are bad and we need to fight against them. We acknowledge the fact that environmental crimes constitute still today the third highest proceeds generating crime in Europe. It is a multi-billion dollar industry. And even our human rights court, very recently, a couple of weeks ago, issued a judgment in relation to an area that I know very well, because it's where I come from, called the Terradate Walkie. It's near Naples, where the court recognized. the right of persons to a healthy environment in an area that is completely polluted, totally polluted. And without wishing to add to my CV, because that's the official CV, but I was interested because, you know, where I come from, when I was a... much younger than them, I was also cleaning up. And then at some point I thought, well, perhaps I should try to do something else to address it rather than collecting the garbage. But this judgment of the court actually deals with illegal waste management. And so we managed to come up with a treaty, with a convention that combats environmental crimes, that criminalizes pollution, illegal logging, hazardous wastes, and also, although the word is difficult to acknowledge by some, also the issue of ecocide. This treaty is now pending before the Parliamentary Assembly, before our parliamentarians in our consultation process, and I hope that the Parliamentary Assembly will soon provide its opinion and for adoption soon and enter into force and countries can cooperate better amongst themselves to combat these crimes. So this is the second, I would say, on the plus column, that's where we are. Now we have a third little plus, which I'm going to mention, and that is the fact that we just finalized for us in the Council of Europe a strategy on the environment. which actually will help us sort of guide the operations of the organization and also the budget of the organization towards actions that are environmentally friendly on one hand and that combat the climate crisis on the other hand. So three on the plus column. Now I'm going to have to go on the minus column, I'm afraid. And where is the minus? The minus is that there is still an ongoing debate, a very lively debate. about whether or not the right to a healthy environment is a fundamental human rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. Now our parliamentary assembly, and I see the former president who is here Rick Dems who was chairing these sessions, our parliamentary assembly and the parliamentarians have been very clear the answer is yes. Obviously, when it moves to the government, it becomes a little bit more complicated. And as we speak today, believe it or not, there are not less than nine options on the table. Nine. nine options on the table to decide whether or not we're going to make the right to a healthy environment an enforceable right under the convention. Now, that's important because some people say, well, in the UN General Assembly already, there have been resolutions acknowledging the right to a healthy environment as a human right. Parliamentary Assembly also has done that. But of course, adding a protocol to the Human Rights Convention means that people have the right to go to the court and get... judgment in their favor for violation of the right to a healthy environment and that is a big difference of course. Now this discussion is ongoing. I do not have the answer to that discussion. I don't see an end in sight, might I add. So we're here, continuing discussions and the options are on the table. I can give you the options. One, broadly speaking, is a protocol to the Human Rights Convention. A second option is to draft a protocol to another treaty that we have called the European Social Charter. Now looking at the social side, another group of people think that we should do a separate treaty only on the right to a healthy environment, which would however not be subject to the European Court direct decision making, and some think that we should do nothing at all. So there is everything from the maximum to the lowest possible spectrum and everything in between, and discussion is ongoing on this. Now, what's happening in the meantime, however, is that our judges, the European Court of Human Rights, keep judging because cases keep coming in. And by the way, not just our international judges, the European Court of Human Rights, but also national courts. In the Netherlands, there have been cases. In France, there have been cases at national level where courts have been stepping in for, shall I call it, the lack of action in this area. I think governments face, and parliamentarians at the national level anyway, face a choice. They can either decide to frame what the right to a healthy environment is and frame it for the courts to operate in that framework. or they can decide not to do that. But if they don't, then the courts will judge. And judges are independent. If you believe in the rule of law, they will issue judgments as they come, and they have. In the recent months, the European Court of Human Rights issued a case against Switzerland. where it's a Klima Seniorinen versus Switzerland, and in this case, an association of elderly women managed to demonstrate that the climate crisis has a disproportionately negative impact on their... category of persons as opposed to the others. They want the case and Switzerland is obliged to implement that judgment. We are in the course of doing that implementation process. But when you look at this judgment, frankly, I've been doing this job for about 30 years now. I don't know any country that would not find itself in the exact same position as Switzerland. So the reality is that any other... Senior women association in any of our member states can bring a case and most likely we'll get it. So while the discussion is ongoing courts are judging. And of course courts are independent and they continue to judge. So I will stop here, Jeremy, give the opportunity for a discussion. But that is where we are. That's the landscape in which we are operating in the Council of Europe. And I want to thank you for this initiative. Thanks to the Parliamentary Assembly. I really congratulate the. young colleagues here because they are taking a leading role and so it should be and it's our job to support and encourage that. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Gianluca.
If you enjoyed this discussion and wish to explore more topics, be sure to check out the episodes of Europe Explained. You can learn more about the Council of Europe and its initiatives at our website, coe.int. And don't forget to follow us on social media. for the latest updates and insights. You can find us on X, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
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How is Europe turning climate commitments into enforceable rights? Gianluca Esposito of the Council of Europe reveals how new legal standards are fighting ecocide and defending the right to a healthy environment.
Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.
Transcription
Welcome to Europe Explained, brought to you by the Council of Europe. This podcast series offers a unique window into what we're doing to create a fairer, more democratic Europe. Through conversations with experts and frontline workers, we bring you closer to the issues that matter, from fighting discrimination to upholding human rights, from defending democracy to building laws, systems, and institutions. that are just, fair and open to all.
Gianluca is, or has been since 2024, Director General of Human Rights and Rule of Law at the Council of Europe. But he's had quite an extensive and influential career in the organisation. Prior to that, he was Director of the Private Office of the Secretary General and the Deputy Secretary General, as well as Executive Secretary of GRECO, where he was overseeing the... Council of Europe and European efforts to fight corruption. He's also been involved in negotiating major conventions on a number of different issues, including cybercrime, human trafficking, efficiency of justice, and beyond the Council of Europe. He was a senior counsel at the International Monetary Fund in, I think it's Washington, isn't it? Yeah. So please join me in welcoming Gianluca Esposito.
Thank you very much, Jeremy. Thank you and good morning, everybody. I'm really honored and pleased to be here with you today in this panel. And I have to say I was very much inspired by the Vice President's speeches and comments. things that I would have liked to add also, and I might do that while I speak. I think on a couple of points, we are pretty, we should be at least, pretty clear. The first one is that we are facing an existential challenge, an existential crisis, that we have to do something something now and not tomorrow. I think on that it's pretty acknowledged. I hope that the data is strong enough for us to know and to acknowledge the fact that we need to act now. I suspect that there is no intellectually honest person who can argue the opposite. So once we have understood that we have to act now, we want to see what the political commitment has been. And we are the Council of Europe, so we are not... we are broader than the European Union. We had a summit a couple of years ago in Iceland, and I'm very happy to see here the Icelandic ambassador down there. And the European leaders, actually 41 heads of state, acknowledged and committed to take action to address climate change, pollution, and biodiversity loss. Now, I'm one of those who continue to believe that when leaders make statements, they mean what they say, right? I mean, they believe in the fact that they... this action is required. And so what my job is today is to try to tell you where we are at the Council of Europe two years on, what have we done and what have we not done. and see where we're going from here. The first thing that we have done is the recognition of the key role young people play in our collective action to tackle climate change. And this is a recognition in the Council of Europe is strong, is clear. Our parliamentarians, the Parliamentary Assembly have acknowledged that. Our committee of ministers, the governments have acknowledged that. The way in which we in the secretariat work in the Council of Europe has acknowledged that. A pretty strong co-decision-making process in the Council of Europe. I'm glad to see our young colleagues here on my right. So we have an acknowledgement that the issue, that young people are not just victims, but they are actually actors and leaders in this area. That's the first thing we have tried to do. The second thing that we succeeded in doing, not without difficulties, and it's not over yet, but I think we are getting there, is to acknowledge the... the fact that environmental crimes are bad and we need to fight against them. We acknowledge the fact that environmental crimes constitute still today the third highest proceeds generating crime in Europe. It is a multi-billion dollar industry. And even our human rights court, very recently, a couple of weeks ago, issued a judgment in relation to an area that I know very well, because it's where I come from, called the Terradate Walkie. It's near Naples, where the court recognized. the right of persons to a healthy environment in an area that is completely polluted, totally polluted. And without wishing to add to my CV, because that's the official CV, but I was interested because, you know, where I come from, when I was a... much younger than them, I was also cleaning up. And then at some point I thought, well, perhaps I should try to do something else to address it rather than collecting the garbage. But this judgment of the court actually deals with illegal waste management. And so we managed to come up with a treaty, with a convention that combats environmental crimes, that criminalizes pollution, illegal logging, hazardous wastes, and also, although the word is difficult to acknowledge by some, also the issue of ecocide. This treaty is now pending before the Parliamentary Assembly, before our parliamentarians in our consultation process, and I hope that the Parliamentary Assembly will soon provide its opinion and for adoption soon and enter into force and countries can cooperate better amongst themselves to combat these crimes. So this is the second, I would say, on the plus column, that's where we are. Now we have a third little plus, which I'm going to mention, and that is the fact that we just finalized for us in the Council of Europe a strategy on the environment. which actually will help us sort of guide the operations of the organization and also the budget of the organization towards actions that are environmentally friendly on one hand and that combat the climate crisis on the other hand. So three on the plus column. Now I'm going to have to go on the minus column, I'm afraid. And where is the minus? The minus is that there is still an ongoing debate, a very lively debate. about whether or not the right to a healthy environment is a fundamental human rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. Now our parliamentary assembly, and I see the former president who is here Rick Dems who was chairing these sessions, our parliamentary assembly and the parliamentarians have been very clear the answer is yes. Obviously, when it moves to the government, it becomes a little bit more complicated. And as we speak today, believe it or not, there are not less than nine options on the table. Nine. nine options on the table to decide whether or not we're going to make the right to a healthy environment an enforceable right under the convention. Now, that's important because some people say, well, in the UN General Assembly already, there have been resolutions acknowledging the right to a healthy environment as a human right. Parliamentary Assembly also has done that. But of course, adding a protocol to the Human Rights Convention means that people have the right to go to the court and get... judgment in their favor for violation of the right to a healthy environment and that is a big difference of course. Now this discussion is ongoing. I do not have the answer to that discussion. I don't see an end in sight, might I add. So we're here, continuing discussions and the options are on the table. I can give you the options. One, broadly speaking, is a protocol to the Human Rights Convention. A second option is to draft a protocol to another treaty that we have called the European Social Charter. Now looking at the social side, another group of people think that we should do a separate treaty only on the right to a healthy environment, which would however not be subject to the European Court direct decision making, and some think that we should do nothing at all. So there is everything from the maximum to the lowest possible spectrum and everything in between, and discussion is ongoing on this. Now, what's happening in the meantime, however, is that our judges, the European Court of Human Rights, keep judging because cases keep coming in. And by the way, not just our international judges, the European Court of Human Rights, but also national courts. In the Netherlands, there have been cases. In France, there have been cases at national level where courts have been stepping in for, shall I call it, the lack of action in this area. I think governments face, and parliamentarians at the national level anyway, face a choice. They can either decide to frame what the right to a healthy environment is and frame it for the courts to operate in that framework. or they can decide not to do that. But if they don't, then the courts will judge. And judges are independent. If you believe in the rule of law, they will issue judgments as they come, and they have. In the recent months, the European Court of Human Rights issued a case against Switzerland. where it's a Klima Seniorinen versus Switzerland, and in this case, an association of elderly women managed to demonstrate that the climate crisis has a disproportionately negative impact on their... category of persons as opposed to the others. They want the case and Switzerland is obliged to implement that judgment. We are in the course of doing that implementation process. But when you look at this judgment, frankly, I've been doing this job for about 30 years now. I don't know any country that would not find itself in the exact same position as Switzerland. So the reality is that any other... Senior women association in any of our member states can bring a case and most likely we'll get it. So while the discussion is ongoing courts are judging. And of course courts are independent and they continue to judge. So I will stop here, Jeremy, give the opportunity for a discussion. But that is where we are. That's the landscape in which we are operating in the Council of Europe. And I want to thank you for this initiative. Thanks to the Parliamentary Assembly. I really congratulate the. young colleagues here because they are taking a leading role and so it should be and it's our job to support and encourage that. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Gianluca.
If you enjoyed this discussion and wish to explore more topics, be sure to check out the episodes of Europe Explained. You can learn more about the Council of Europe and its initiatives at our website, coe.int. And don't forget to follow us on social media. for the latest updates and insights. You can find us on X, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
Description
How is Europe turning climate commitments into enforceable rights? Gianluca Esposito of the Council of Europe reveals how new legal standards are fighting ecocide and defending the right to a healthy environment.
Hosted by Ausha. See ausha.co/privacy-policy for more information.
Transcription
Welcome to Europe Explained, brought to you by the Council of Europe. This podcast series offers a unique window into what we're doing to create a fairer, more democratic Europe. Through conversations with experts and frontline workers, we bring you closer to the issues that matter, from fighting discrimination to upholding human rights, from defending democracy to building laws, systems, and institutions. that are just, fair and open to all.
Gianluca is, or has been since 2024, Director General of Human Rights and Rule of Law at the Council of Europe. But he's had quite an extensive and influential career in the organisation. Prior to that, he was Director of the Private Office of the Secretary General and the Deputy Secretary General, as well as Executive Secretary of GRECO, where he was overseeing the... Council of Europe and European efforts to fight corruption. He's also been involved in negotiating major conventions on a number of different issues, including cybercrime, human trafficking, efficiency of justice, and beyond the Council of Europe. He was a senior counsel at the International Monetary Fund in, I think it's Washington, isn't it? Yeah. So please join me in welcoming Gianluca Esposito.
Thank you very much, Jeremy. Thank you and good morning, everybody. I'm really honored and pleased to be here with you today in this panel. And I have to say I was very much inspired by the Vice President's speeches and comments. things that I would have liked to add also, and I might do that while I speak. I think on a couple of points, we are pretty, we should be at least, pretty clear. The first one is that we are facing an existential challenge, an existential crisis, that we have to do something something now and not tomorrow. I think on that it's pretty acknowledged. I hope that the data is strong enough for us to know and to acknowledge the fact that we need to act now. I suspect that there is no intellectually honest person who can argue the opposite. So once we have understood that we have to act now, we want to see what the political commitment has been. And we are the Council of Europe, so we are not... we are broader than the European Union. We had a summit a couple of years ago in Iceland, and I'm very happy to see here the Icelandic ambassador down there. And the European leaders, actually 41 heads of state, acknowledged and committed to take action to address climate change, pollution, and biodiversity loss. Now, I'm one of those who continue to believe that when leaders make statements, they mean what they say, right? I mean, they believe in the fact that they... this action is required. And so what my job is today is to try to tell you where we are at the Council of Europe two years on, what have we done and what have we not done. and see where we're going from here. The first thing that we have done is the recognition of the key role young people play in our collective action to tackle climate change. And this is a recognition in the Council of Europe is strong, is clear. Our parliamentarians, the Parliamentary Assembly have acknowledged that. Our committee of ministers, the governments have acknowledged that. The way in which we in the secretariat work in the Council of Europe has acknowledged that. A pretty strong co-decision-making process in the Council of Europe. I'm glad to see our young colleagues here on my right. So we have an acknowledgement that the issue, that young people are not just victims, but they are actually actors and leaders in this area. That's the first thing we have tried to do. The second thing that we succeeded in doing, not without difficulties, and it's not over yet, but I think we are getting there, is to acknowledge the... the fact that environmental crimes are bad and we need to fight against them. We acknowledge the fact that environmental crimes constitute still today the third highest proceeds generating crime in Europe. It is a multi-billion dollar industry. And even our human rights court, very recently, a couple of weeks ago, issued a judgment in relation to an area that I know very well, because it's where I come from, called the Terradate Walkie. It's near Naples, where the court recognized. the right of persons to a healthy environment in an area that is completely polluted, totally polluted. And without wishing to add to my CV, because that's the official CV, but I was interested because, you know, where I come from, when I was a... much younger than them, I was also cleaning up. And then at some point I thought, well, perhaps I should try to do something else to address it rather than collecting the garbage. But this judgment of the court actually deals with illegal waste management. And so we managed to come up with a treaty, with a convention that combats environmental crimes, that criminalizes pollution, illegal logging, hazardous wastes, and also, although the word is difficult to acknowledge by some, also the issue of ecocide. This treaty is now pending before the Parliamentary Assembly, before our parliamentarians in our consultation process, and I hope that the Parliamentary Assembly will soon provide its opinion and for adoption soon and enter into force and countries can cooperate better amongst themselves to combat these crimes. So this is the second, I would say, on the plus column, that's where we are. Now we have a third little plus, which I'm going to mention, and that is the fact that we just finalized for us in the Council of Europe a strategy on the environment. which actually will help us sort of guide the operations of the organization and also the budget of the organization towards actions that are environmentally friendly on one hand and that combat the climate crisis on the other hand. So three on the plus column. Now I'm going to have to go on the minus column, I'm afraid. And where is the minus? The minus is that there is still an ongoing debate, a very lively debate. about whether or not the right to a healthy environment is a fundamental human rights under the European Convention on Human Rights. Now our parliamentary assembly, and I see the former president who is here Rick Dems who was chairing these sessions, our parliamentary assembly and the parliamentarians have been very clear the answer is yes. Obviously, when it moves to the government, it becomes a little bit more complicated. And as we speak today, believe it or not, there are not less than nine options on the table. Nine. nine options on the table to decide whether or not we're going to make the right to a healthy environment an enforceable right under the convention. Now, that's important because some people say, well, in the UN General Assembly already, there have been resolutions acknowledging the right to a healthy environment as a human right. Parliamentary Assembly also has done that. But of course, adding a protocol to the Human Rights Convention means that people have the right to go to the court and get... judgment in their favor for violation of the right to a healthy environment and that is a big difference of course. Now this discussion is ongoing. I do not have the answer to that discussion. I don't see an end in sight, might I add. So we're here, continuing discussions and the options are on the table. I can give you the options. One, broadly speaking, is a protocol to the Human Rights Convention. A second option is to draft a protocol to another treaty that we have called the European Social Charter. Now looking at the social side, another group of people think that we should do a separate treaty only on the right to a healthy environment, which would however not be subject to the European Court direct decision making, and some think that we should do nothing at all. So there is everything from the maximum to the lowest possible spectrum and everything in between, and discussion is ongoing on this. Now, what's happening in the meantime, however, is that our judges, the European Court of Human Rights, keep judging because cases keep coming in. And by the way, not just our international judges, the European Court of Human Rights, but also national courts. In the Netherlands, there have been cases. In France, there have been cases at national level where courts have been stepping in for, shall I call it, the lack of action in this area. I think governments face, and parliamentarians at the national level anyway, face a choice. They can either decide to frame what the right to a healthy environment is and frame it for the courts to operate in that framework. or they can decide not to do that. But if they don't, then the courts will judge. And judges are independent. If you believe in the rule of law, they will issue judgments as they come, and they have. In the recent months, the European Court of Human Rights issued a case against Switzerland. where it's a Klima Seniorinen versus Switzerland, and in this case, an association of elderly women managed to demonstrate that the climate crisis has a disproportionately negative impact on their... category of persons as opposed to the others. They want the case and Switzerland is obliged to implement that judgment. We are in the course of doing that implementation process. But when you look at this judgment, frankly, I've been doing this job for about 30 years now. I don't know any country that would not find itself in the exact same position as Switzerland. So the reality is that any other... Senior women association in any of our member states can bring a case and most likely we'll get it. So while the discussion is ongoing courts are judging. And of course courts are independent and they continue to judge. So I will stop here, Jeremy, give the opportunity for a discussion. But that is where we are. That's the landscape in which we are operating in the Council of Europe. And I want to thank you for this initiative. Thanks to the Parliamentary Assembly. I really congratulate the. young colleagues here because they are taking a leading role and so it should be and it's our job to support and encourage that. Thank you.
Thank you very much, Gianluca.
If you enjoyed this discussion and wish to explore more topics, be sure to check out the episodes of Europe Explained. You can learn more about the Council of Europe and its initiatives at our website, coe.int. And don't forget to follow us on social media. for the latest updates and insights. You can find us on X, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
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