- Speaker #0
Welcome to Europe Explained, brought to you by the Council of Europe. This podcast series offers a unique window into what we're doing to create a fairer, more democratic Europe. Through conversations with experts and frontline workers, we bring you closer to the issues that matter, from fighting discrimination to upholding human rights, from defending democracy to building laws, systems, and institutions. that are just, fair and open to all.
- Speaker #1
Council of Europe and its Parliamentary Assembly have long recognised the vital link between human rights and a healthy environment, advocating for stronger legal protections and ambitious climate policies. And today we're bringing together Speakers of Parliament, Secretary-Generals of Parliament and young leaders with the aim of amplifying youth voices. promoting accountability and shaping a greener, more sustainable future together. So let's start. The first person that I would like to inspire us is Martin Hojcik. Martin Hojcik is the Vice President of the European Parliament. He is since 2023 and he's a dedicated environmental activist, if I allow myself to say that, and advocate for environmental and social justice. He represents the Renew Europe group and Progressive Slovensko, and he's been a member of the European Parliament since 2019, I believe. He is responsible for parliamentary committees and delegations which include relations with the United States and with ASEAN. And before entering politics, he was an influential figure in international NGOs like Greenpeace and Four Paws. championing sustainability and human rights. So please join me in welcoming Martin Huisik.
- Speaker #2
Thank you very much and really it's an honour to be here. I've always been uneasy with giving inspiring talks, but I realized one thing that's wrong about it is actually the title. Why protecting the planet matters for future generations? It actually matters for us. We don't, you know, it's not about, sadly, we let it go so far, our children and grandchildren and their children. The situation as the scientists have been warning us for tens of years by now has really deteriorated dramatically and this is where the planetary balance boundaries have been crossed on many ways. And the fact that we need to act matters for the survival of current generations, for the survival of Europe, as we know it, for the survival of... democracy and actually even fundamental human rights. Because on a planet where children are exposed to toxic chemicals before they're being born, where we see the climate crisis turning into climate catastrophe, where the pressures on the migration are increasing because of the climate crisis already now, this is not about future generations. This is about what we do now. And, you know, we've always been proud of ourselves, how we listen to science and make very rational policy, but in the reality... No, the politics haven't been sufficiently listening to the science. The science has been ignored for way too long, and this is where, indeed, it was the young generation that brought Europe the Green Deal, that brought Europe and the world, actually, the change that we see now. The problem is that the change is under threat with the onslaught of human rights, the onslaught of the on the democracy and the peace. There are questions, okay, so still we can we afford to do this? And I would say we cannot not afford to do this. It is interconnected. It is deeply interconnected because if you look at it from a perspective of climate crisis, it is actually our dependency on fossil fuels from autocratic regime, especially the one led by Vladimir Putin. That has led to this war. We paid him to actually militarize, to be able to arm his armies and start the aggression because we've been so naively hooked on his fossil fuels. So in this respect, the climate, the environment at large, and... and the peace and human rights are super interconnected. This is where I think we have to keep on working on getting rid of these dependencies and also helping other countries, even outside. of Europe of going similar path. And it's not something which is only for our own sake, for the sake of our security, but I think this is the best business opportunity of our times, because this is where we can also save money and make money. And I believe this is an important aspect which is often forgotten, because it's described as a cost instead of investment. As a European Parliament, I think, and as a European Union, we've been, and I'm very happy to say, quite at the forefront on this, not only with the Green Deal, but it continues with the current efforts that we are doing. If you look at the dependency... on the Russian fossil office, it's still there, even though some member states are questioning it. But the effort to decarbonize, it's still there, and it's still strong. And this is something which even not only the young environmental movement, but also... the businesses are calling for because they see the opportunities. If you look at the challenges and kind of the opportunities around the circular economy, again, it's about safety, it's about prosperity, and yes, it's about the planet. I believe that the things that we face are the threat to our own existence. But I refuse to be one of those which see only the gloom, because what I see in this is really huge opportunities. And my call on the young generation... has always been, please don't give up. Please keep those in power in check. Keep on asking the hard questions. Keep on pushing for a change because when you give up, it's all lost. And my plea to the parliaments and to all the members of the parliamentary assembly is please keep on guarding the space. One of the very important elements is to protect the space for the civil society, to protect the space for the protest, to protect the space for those who want to express their views. Thank you. Because again, it's all interconnected. Without enabling the space, the power, not only the environment, but the power will go unchecked. The first thing you see any dictatorial regime do, or autocratic regime do, is to restrict the civil space. And that's where I believe that, not only for the sake of the planet, But for the sake of the values that are very dear to this institution, that are so dear to all of us as human rights and democracy, we need to protect the civil space, not only but especially for the young generation, to be able to question what we do and ask us the hard things that we sometimes tend to forget. Thank you.
- Speaker #1
Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Mr. Hoisik. So now we'll open up the floor to comments and contributions from our participants in the room. Please feel free to make your comments. And just if I could ask you to be brief, that would be fantastic, because then we'll have opportunities for more people to speak. I would like to invite you to put your questions. But before I do, I'd like to put my own question to Mr. Hoisik. was it that inspired you to get involved in environmental protection?
- Speaker #2
When I was growing up, I was growing up behind the Iron Curtain, on the Soviet side. And that meant that, living and growing up in Bratislava, I saw the really dense smoke having over the city. I saw the acid rain killing our forests. I saw the rivers being polluted. And when I was asking what to do about, what I can do about it, I was told by my teachers in school that, you know, go to the forest, pick up the garbage. And I didn't want to be the garbage collector. I want to prevent the pollution. I want to stop it from happening, not going afterwards and clean up. And this is what brought me after the revolution to the environmental movement, is to try to address the root causes of the problem rather than... be, you know, the cleanup guy after the problem was already created, after the harm was already done. And being able to express myself freely was the very first precondition, because indeed, before that, it was extremely hard. And I'm very proud, actually, in Slovakia, the environmental movement was in the forefront of the democracy movement during the communist regime.
- Speaker #1
Thank you so much. So questions from the participants. Who would like to start? Please don't be shy. And if I could ask you just to introduce yourself, that would be very helpful. Thank you. If you could just introduce yourself. Thank you.
- Speaker #3
Good morning. My name is Jan-Antonio Bruijn, President of the Dutch Senate. I was wondering, thank you for that introduction, whether the solution for the environmental challenge must come mostly from the governmental organizations or from the private sector. So if we look at the development of clean machines, clean cars, cleaner technology, cleaner industry, scientists that I know, they point towards the private sector that are carrying... on most of the solutions. So is it, what is in your view the thing that we should do as politicians? Should we make more room for the private sector to come up with these solutions, to further develop them? Or should we impose more regulations and restrict and make it more difficult for the private sector to develop these things?
- Speaker #2
Thank you and it's a super pointed question right now and a valid question in the current discussions about how to proceed around also the clean industrial deal. I think it's about the right mix. What I mean with the right mix is that we need to create actually the space and the possibilities for the businesses to develop, to grow, to come up with the innovation. But at the same time, we need to help create the right legislative framework for that. So it's not about the regulation. It's about having the right and functioning regulation. And what I think we have a big problem now is that the current system favors the incumbents. The current system is actually bent towards, for example, subsidies of the fossil fuels, which are many times more in monetary terms than what we give for the development of the sustainable alternatives. So in reality, we don't even have a fair competition. We put the obstacles in front of those who want to innovate. And I hear it from businesses small and large in a number of the sectors. The bureaucratic obstacles are for them to come up with the market for the new things and are protecting the old things. And this is what we have to fix. And I think this is where we have to, to say, set the rules. is right that we encourage the innovation, we encourage the businesses to come up with the new approaches and create actually a fair competition for them. We need, so to say, much more carrot and less stick.
- Speaker #1
Thank you very much. Next question, please.
- Speaker #4
Yes, hello, my name is Alphonse Reblom. I'm the president of the Baltic Sea Parliamentary Conference. Hello, Martin, we've met before. I think this is an urgent discussion and you kind of gave some answers to my questions already. But I feel that, I can put it as a question, how do you feel now that the discussion is in Parliament when it comes to deregulation? Because it's a lot of talk about competitiveness. That we have to deregulate to make the economy grow. But at the same time, it is 2025 now. There shouldn't be forces that move towards each other to be competitive and to be green at the same time. I mean, it's 2025. When I listen to the news today, I think it's... It makes me worried because they talk about simplification, but nobody wants to make it harder, of course. So why is simplification, a.k.a. perhaps deregulation, in the wrong way? I totally agree with you that the mission for politics is to create the framework. And then we have to have the trust in the business that they will adapt to the framework. It's not the other way around, that the framework should adapt to the businesses, because is it something that businesses don't like? It's wobbly frameworks. They need level playing field. They need to be able to see what kind of rules will apply in five years. so my question is how do you feel that what do you hear in the European Parliament when it comes to this new deregulation phase we've done the Green Deal for a couple of years now we want to deregulate for a couple of years how do you feel the discussion is?
- Speaker #2
Interesting one there are different pressures and I think the crucial question for our future whether we will be able to hold the centre Because of course there is the extreme right. I don't like to call them patriots, honestly. It's the former ID plus Orbán, so it's not really very patriotic to go against Europe, in my humble opinion. But I give you an example of what I believe in practical terms where the big challenge is. There is a company in Slovakia that basically has innovative construction approaches in the buildings. They have a project, they are preparing the parts for massive distributions. center in Denmark, a 12 story building in Sweden. And I was there opening their new factory in Slovakia and I said, Okay, tell me, what are the biggest obstacles to your business? And I said, regulation, of course, but what European regulation do you need to change or what is that? He said, not European. It was not the permitting process for the factory. It is the fact that with our approach, we need to get certificates in every single country in Europe. And in Germany, in every single Bundesland, obviously, which is an incredible administrative burden. We have, when we are scared of tariff tariffs, according to the IMF report, published earlier this year. On goods, we have effective intra-European rates of 40%. 40%, you know, he's talking 25% tariffs. We put tariffs on each other's 40%, and on the services, it's 120%. So I think part of the challenge lies in the way that the member states are dealing with European legislation, that they always tweak it, do something else, and ultimately, we end up with a situation where Europe is being blamed, what we did together, but we don't look at how it is done. We are limiting the potential. We are putting obstacles in the way of development of renewable energy. And I think this is where we are doing the biggest mistakes, is that we pretend that we are doing something, but in reality, if you look back during even the first Trump administration, where still Europe was presented as the climate champion, the percentage of GDP investment that went into renewable energy was higher in the United States led by Trump who was praising coal because in Europe we were talking but still keeping the obstacles in the way of the development protecting the incumbents protecting the companies that so to say hold the market now and I think this is we are afraid of change and we should embrace change and I think this goes beyond regulation, deregulation. The ability of changing us as Europeans and moving forward with things is the big thing. biggest challenge that we have. And the crucial task for also European Parliament will be to even allow this. That's what my worry is. If we get stuck in the past, we will have a big problem, to say the least.
- Speaker #5
Good morning, everybody. I'm Andrea Eder-Gittsteller from Austria. I'm the Speaker of the Federal Council of Austria. I'm also a member of the PAS, a proud member of the PAS. We just talked in front. We are fine with our new government, first of all, in Austria. We're really fine. But, you know, I'm also a senior representative. And for that, I have a very provocative question. How do you think you will get older people to follow you, to support you? Because I think that so many problems, they don't feel the needs of doing something for the environment. And so I think you have to have certain actions in order to take them with them. What are your goals? How can you do that?
- Speaker #2
I think with the older generations, being 48 now, like my older generation or not, no, refusing. It's one thing is the, I believe, the appreciation of the nature. The appreciation of, and this is something which I feel strong in the older generation, is that they realize kind of how pressures, and you know, in mountainous countries like Slovakia or Austria, I think this is something very strong. I cannot compare with the kind of low-lying countries because I don't have that experience, but people would not want to see the nature destroyed. And I think this is something as a really deep down fundamental value to build on. And the second thing is to showcase, and I think this goes beyond the older generation, this is across all the generations, the challenge that we've seen so far with the green transition is... The ordinary people, kind of the average person, hasn't felt the benefit. You know, the wealthier parts of the population enjoy the electric cars. They want them. It's more efficient, it's cheaper, it works. They enjoy the heat pumps and having modern, comfortable houses. And the challenge that we face so far, we haven't managed to get the benefits to the ordinary people. I think this is the big task for the businesses and policy makers alike. Because that will, you know, don't do it for the planet, do it for your own well-being. And I think this very simplistic motivation is very important as well. How can we make people feel that I have... something out of this. My home when it's insulated using renewable energy suddenly you know when I hear bad news about energy prices going up I smile because I'm not dependent. I have warmth in the winter that I can afford and don't worry about paying the bills. In summer my house makes money. These are things that actually people suddenly feel.
- Speaker #1
Yes, please.
- Speaker #6
Actually, I'm not the parliamentarian, but for once I would like to add a very concrete idea, which continues exactly where you stopped, and that's we're in 2025. We've got two years to 2027 when the ETS2 will start to run. What about implementing a socially just redistribution of the ETS2 revenues, of carbon tax revenues, where we've got carbon taxes right now? And by the way, not through any discounts, not through anything the people don't need to pay where things get cheaper or anything, but through an active payment on their bank accounts. Because sometimes public policy is really that simple. Then people notice that's psychologically affirmed that they actually get something back. If you and your countries don't have these systems. to transfer money on the bank account of your citizens right now. You've got two years to build them up. But that's one very, very concrete idea that's absolutely crucial to create acceptance in the broad society for climate action.
- Speaker #1
Thank you very much. That was Linus Dolder, who is one of our panellists, and we'll be introducing him properly in a minute or two.
- Speaker #0
If you enjoyed this discussion and wish to explore more topics, be sure to check out the episodes of Europe Explained. You can learn more about the Council of Europe and its initiatives at our website, coe.int. And don't forget to follow us on social media for the latest updates and insights. You can find us on X, LinkedIn, Facebook and Instagram.
