- Speaker #0
erica welcome back thank you i'm excited to be back thanks for coming back on yeah you
- Speaker #1
um this business is wild because podcasting because you get into like a little groove of okay here's my niche and here's what i'm talking to and then we we got together and it was just magical it was Right. And like I said, you're an annuity for me. Like it's just the people keep coming back on and it keeps getting likes and shares and comments. I got a comment, I think yesterday on something either on TikTok or on Instagram. And this was over six months ago.
- Speaker #0
And so,
- Speaker #1
yeah, well, and it's, you're just the smartest person in the room, I think, who is a public face for nurses. for nurses and advocating for nurses' rights on a national level.
- Speaker #0
Thank you.
- Speaker #1
You're welcome. I think that there's just no one better than you, than what's going on. Because the thing I love about you is you bring it like you've got the biggest dick in the room. And also, you're not afraid to go in the comments and clap back at people. Oh,
- Speaker #0
yes.
- Speaker #1
That are misinformed or jaded.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Right?
- Speaker #0
Absolutely.
- Speaker #1
And so you stand by what you believe in.
- Speaker #0
I do.
- Speaker #1
This isn't just for show and for clickbait. And so I love that about you.
- Speaker #0
You.
- Speaker #1
You're welcome. And we've become friends, which is a bonus. Yeah. You know, that now like you and Brandon had dinner together. It was awesome, which we have to do again.
- Speaker #0
Yes.
- Speaker #1
It was just, so just you're a good person. And you have, I've always done this with a few other people, but that seat is open for you. Literally, whenever you have something to talk about, get off your chest, let people know about it. Let me know and we will get you in here.
- Speaker #0
Okay.
- Speaker #1
Okay.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
All right. Let's begin. Why are nurses forced to work while sick and who benefits from that insanity? What happens when you're treating cancer patients or ICU patients while you're contagious?
- Speaker #0
Well, oncology patients have virtually no immune system to fight anything off, right? So their nurse should be what we call a clean nurse that doesn't have any quote unquote dirty patients, which are infectious patients, because, you know, you don't want to spread that to them, of course. But they will and they being management for staffing purposes will completely disregard best practice and say, oh, if you just wash your hands properly in between patients, it's not an issue. Are you not comfortable? Do you not think that you can wash your hands appropriately? You know, it's the victim blaming all the time. Yeah, but they will force us to work sick. There are extremely punitive attendance policies that are pervasive throughout the nursing profession with various organizations. So you may only have three call-in days, sick days per year. Yeah, there's a lot of places. It's that stringent. Yeah. Or you don't even get sick days. They give you your PTO days, but it's combined with your time off. And so if you are nearing that point, they will threaten you. They will write you up. They will give you disciplinary action. And so the result is nurses are forced to come to work sick, which, first of all, imagine how difficult that is for the nurse, because these are grueling 12 hour shifts. on your feet, no break, right? But for the patients that are often immunocompromised or susceptible to all manner of hospital acquired infections, we are putting them at risk. It's terrible.
- Speaker #1
Take out being sick. What about the single mom who's a nurse and- That's me. Child is sick.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Child has a- doctor's appointment child has what the myriad of things that were both parents that kids have and you have only a finite amount of pto sick days whatever so then what do you do to take an unpaid day off to
- Speaker #0
get stuff you know to take often give you that opportunity it's you know truly it's you have this amount of days and there are a lot of places now we're going to a crazy point system. So it's this cumulative effect where if you're tardy one minute, you get this many points. If you miss a day, you get this many points. If you are, I don't know, written up for something completely opposite, this many points. And so once you reach the threshold of 15 points or whatever it is. they terminate you. They term you. But that is something I struggled with for years because I was a single mom working bedside for years and years. And they give zero fucks, like sub-zero fucks about what's going on in your personal life. It is just so black and white with management and healthcare. And they don't care that they'll get rid of a nurse that maybe has worked there 15 years that is a huge resource to everyone else. They don't care.
- Speaker #1
Is the rationale from management and the administration that they have a laundry list of people, a queue of people that they can hire and that's better?
- Speaker #0
Not exactly, because they don't really want to hire anyone. You know, that's that's the dirty little secret. Right. I told you before, there's no nursing shortage. Right. There's tons and tons of nursing nurses to fill all the vacancies. But. There's a component of we can hire and replace you for cheaper with a new grad for much less money. But there's also a component of maybe we'll just let that vacancy sit there for a few months.
- Speaker #1
See what happens.
- Speaker #0
Gaslight the staff and breadcrumb them and say, oh, well, we've got the position listed. We're interviewing. Meanwhile, all of our friends have been applying that we know are qualified and they're not even getting a call back. They purposely will leave positions vacant. and short staff to increase their profits.
- Speaker #1
Wow.
- Speaker #0
It's a business model.
- Speaker #1
Who are the biggest culprits? And again, I don't want to get you in trouble. So if you're like, you don't want to say it's fine, but like I've been married to a nurse and I don't want things to come back onto her because I love her and I enjoy having sex with her. And I don't know if she enjoys it back, but I enjoy it. So I never want to rock the boat with her, but she's mentioned certain healthcare companies that always come up.
- Speaker #0
Yeah. HCA is probably allegedly the biggest offender. Any major healthcare organization, they all do this. All of them. The small ones, the big ones. Yeah, they all do.
- Speaker #1
They're all guilty.
- Speaker #0
They all are. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Okay. How does it make sense that boards of nursing punish nurses for needing mental healthcare? Why are 30 states... asking about mental illness on licensing applications and what actually happens if you answer honestly.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, so about 30 state boards of nursing have mandatory questions when you apply for your nursing license and renew it every two years. Then it's a series of questions. Have you been treated for any mental health related issues in the past two years? If so, fill out these 10 questions. Have you sought medical treatment for this, for this? You know, it's a screening. The problem is that it very often triggers mandated programs and monitoring for the nurse. So it puts essentially their license in jeopardy. Okay. Now, it can be something like you had a DUI five years ago, one time. before you even became a nurse. But now they're asking, have you ever had anything that fits into that category? Well, you have to answer yes, because a lot of the questions are ever in the past or within the past two years. And you have to answer because if you lie to the board of nursing, that's it. It's over. And then that triggers a mandatory monitoring program. So they'll throw you into, you know, like a drug, alcohol, rehab monitoring thing. where you maybe just had this one incident and you're not actually a drug addict or, you know, and then they force you to pay for drug tests at a drop of a hat and they're expensive. And you have to do it every week.
- Speaker #1
Whenever they call you. You're paying for that.
- Speaker #0
Oh, yeah. And they'll call you and give you till the end of day to do it. Doesn't matter if you're at work. Figure it out. Figure it out. Yeah, they're terrible. Some states are worse than others. But essentially, it. puts your license in jeopardy. And now you're being monitored and it just doesn't go away. It never falls off. And it's a money grab. They're using it to make money off of nurses with these monitoring programs. So the end result is that nurses who know that they have depression or whatever else, maybe suicidal thoughts, will not seek treatment. They blatantly will not seek treatment because they know that that means the state board of nursing could very well find out, and then their license and their livelihood is put at risk. So the people that you have taking care of you in the hospital, because we're human, And we have mental health issues just like everybody else don't get the treatment that they need for it because the state boards of nursing that are supposed to represent us often. And again, it's not every state and some are worse than others. They often use it as a form of retaliation almost.
- Speaker #1
Do the state boards own the monitoring systems? Like how is it a money grab?
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's often contracted. They subcontract it to a third party.
- Speaker #1
Is there kickbacks, do you think?
- Speaker #0
Probably.
- Speaker #1
That's bananas. It just seems like it's like this, like when you let the, you pull the drain thing out and that whirlpool that gets formed. And it's just like there's this sucking of just of people and talent and people that care, that give a shit, that want to help, that are pleasers. And that you just, you're fighting this like gravitational pull against you.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, that's what it feels.
- Speaker #1
In the name of a profit and loss statement.
- Speaker #0
There's nurses that have lost their lives over this. Really? Oh, absolutely. And not isolated incidents. A lot. A lot. That have not gotten the help that they need.
- Speaker #1
Well, they won't.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
They're afraid to for retaliation. Wow.
- Speaker #0
It's terrible.
- Speaker #1
Do you believe boards of nursing are protecting patients or protecting their revenue streams? Tell me what you've seen when nurses get forced into monitoring and recovery programs. Who profits?
- Speaker #0
Not the nurse. Ever. Never. There are nurses that have actually left the profession entirely because they have been put into these monitoring programs for years. And they satisfy all the requirements and they can't get out. They just keep extending it or adding on more requirements and they're going broke. I've talked to nurses that are living in their car because they are spending so much money paying for all the mandatory testing and requirements that they can't afford to live and pay their bills in addition to that. So it's really a problem in some states.
- Speaker #1
Is it something you've talked about on your podcast or something you've talked about in the content you're putting out?
- Speaker #0
Yeah. Talked about on the podcast. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
What's the feedback you're getting from your audience?
- Speaker #0
Thank you for talking about this. No one talks about this. Yeah. We need to be talking about this. It's we need to get out there because there's a lot of shame attached to it. Right. No one wants to advertise that they maybe have a mental health concern or an addiction issue, but now they're forced to almost advertise it because like you have to inform your employer. Because you might get that call that says, go get a drug test by the end of day. Well, your employer has to know why you're leaving suddenly, you know? So now everybody knows your personal business. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. No one keeps secrets.
- Speaker #0
No.
- Speaker #1
Lord, nurses love to talk.
- Speaker #0
We do.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah. Chatty Cathy's. Yeah. As my mom would say. Bless your hearts, but oh, good heavens. Hey, it's a coping mechanism. I'm okay with it. I'm, you know, whatever. um why why do so many nurses suffer in silence instead of speaking up And what's it costing us? Is fear keeping nurses quiet and our patients ultimately paying the price?
- Speaker #0
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. Fear is the motivation behind nurses not sticking up, fighting back, speaking out, because we are constantly faced with the fear. It's not even fear. It's reality. We all have seen or been the victim of nurses being retaliated against for doing the right thing. for reporting a safety concern. And then you are now blackballed, essentially. They suddenly, I need to speak to you about your performance. Your performance has been suffering. Really? How's that? It's been fine for years. So now that I reported this really unsafe condition that had nothing to do, it's because of the way the hospital is choosing to operate. Suddenly, I'm a problematic employee and I'm then put on a performance improvement plan. You're under the microscope. They're pulling you in the office. They're essentially making it so miserable that you quit. And most of the time, that's the outcome, which alleviates any of the responsibility from management. So they don't have to terminate you. They quit. We didn't do anything. They were a problem employee. They quit.
- Speaker #1
What are some of the most documented, glaring instances of retaliation that you... know of?
- Speaker #0
I think I talked about this before when I was here. When you're the victim of an assault at work. silence at work, in the hospital, wherever. And then they ask you, what could you have done differently? And here's some mandatory health stream modules. Do this in your free time at work, which we don't have, and pretend like you're learning from it so that we can then weaponize those learning modules against you in the future and say, well, look, we provided you this education. And yet you still allowed this to happen. You still put yourself between the patient and the door or whatever. You weren't following procedure all the time.
- Speaker #1
It's almost like a victim of sexual assault being accused of dressing slutty. What were you wearing? Yeah, they had it coming.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
You're asking for it.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, it's exactly like that.
- Speaker #1
How do the people at the administrative level, at multiple levels, like this is coming from, you know, the CEO all the way on down. How do you think they live with themselves?
- Speaker #0
Oh, I think they live very well high on the hog with no concerns. They are paid very well. They have a lavish lifestyle often, you know, at the expense of patient lives, nurses lives. I don't think that they care. Now, there's some good ones out there, sure. But by and large, I think to operate at that level. and be successful at that level, you have to sell a part of your soul. You have to sell out nurses and patients.
- Speaker #1
Well, look at the CEO of UnitedHealthcare.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
You know, he's assassinated.
- Speaker #0
Yep.
- Speaker #1
And the, I forget the kid's name.
- Speaker #0
Luigi.
- Speaker #1
Luigi is edified, you know, by people.
- Speaker #0
They're making a musical about him.
- Speaker #1
Are they really?
- Speaker #0
I want to be there opening night. Opening night.
- Speaker #1
This is like a Mel Brooks thing. Like, this is hilarious. Are you kidding me?
- Speaker #0
Nope. Someone's making a musical about it. Oh,
- Speaker #1
my God.
- Speaker #0
I think it's the best thing in the world.
- Speaker #1
Well, I'm a big fan of bringing awareness to an issue. And if this helps bring awareness to an issue, like, Mazel Tov, go.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Do the music. No,
- Speaker #0
I mean, no one wants to hear it, but God bless Luigi. No one is condoning the violence. We all know that's wrong. But when and who knows if he did it, you know. But when you are pushed long enough, far enough, you will snap. That applies to anyone and everyone. Right. We need to stop as a society constantly pushing people past their limit.
- Speaker #1
And I think that's what's happening in other areas now. Like politically, like people are just losing their minds about stuff. And I mean, Luigi wasn't a nurse, was he? Like was he in the health care?
- Speaker #0
No, he had, I want to say a master's degree in like economics or something. Not medical at all.
- Speaker #1
I don't know that much about the case.
- Speaker #0
Engineering, I think.
- Speaker #1
Okay, so if he's an engineering major, master's, what prompted him to assassinate the CEO? Of a health care company.
- Speaker #0
Allegedly, he had health problems and his back had been messed up from surgery and he had insurance issues. From what I've read, I'm sure it'll all come out in trial. And his mom did as well. And so I think he saw the suffering and experienced the suffering himself firsthand and really kind of tied it together to, you know. The organizations, the big healthcare organizations.
- Speaker #1
It's just a mess.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
It's just a mess. And I mean, I guarantee you after that happened, every CEO of every healthcare company on the planet was hiring an ex-SEAL team, six team to surround them whenever they go out in public. Oh, yeah. From now on. And their families all have targets on their backs now.
- Speaker #0
A lot of nurses are being assaulted, killed, raped at work all the time around the country. Do they provide even an extra security guard the day after someone is murdered in the hospital? No. But the CEO gets gunned down and they all have private security teams now paid for by the organization. Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. I'm baffled, baffled by that. Let's talk about the real infection, cowardice in the nursing culture. You've said nurses are often afraid to speak up. How do we get their sense of justice? to finally outweigh their fear.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, that's my constant everyday struggle is trying to get through to nurses. And they always, you know, they always have excuses and the excuses are legitimate. It's I'm a single mom. I have bills to pay. You know, I don't have a lot of sympathy because I have been in that position. And it never stopped me from having courage and doing the right thing. And I have paid the price. I have been terminated for doing the right thing and for fighting back. But I would do it again. I have done it again. The only ones that I think maybe I can kind of understand a little bit is they live somewhere that's very rural. And there really only is the one organization that you can work at in that. geographical area, right? So you can't burn that bridge, but you could, maybe you could go do home health instead or something else. I mean, that's what I would do. It's tough. It's so hard to get nurses to show up to anything, to put their name on anything, a petition, to come to a rally, because unfortunately, management is there. They have people hiding. Looking, taking notes, who's there. They report back and then you're called into the office. The next time you work about your performance, like I mentioned earlier, it's very retaliatory. And blacklist, being blacklisted is a thing, even though that's illegal.
- Speaker #1
Wow.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
Wow.
- Speaker #0
So then they affect your future employment.
- Speaker #1
That's insane.
- Speaker #0
The retaliation is on another level. It is. leaps and bounds above any other industry really nursing yeah it's it's vindictive absolutely that's the perfect word for it it is it's vindictive it is erica yeah i mean i'm just i'm i'm blessed in that my
- Speaker #1
wife's a nurse she's a hospice nurse here with choice hospice shout out choice hospice here's your pen and the the people that she works with are amazing like they have calls in the morning they have calls in the afternoon and She's happy. She's supported. There's really no. It's amazing. And rare. It's like the needle in the haystack. Yeah. She found the one. She found the one. The one. Because I was, and I mean, and she kind of knows this. When she, she came out from Tampa and she was a hospice nurse there. And when she was coming here, I'm like, oh man. Like all I've heard is just nightmare stories about the healthcare here in Las Vegas. And the fact that she found a company that at least here. gives a shit yeah and supports her yeah is unbelievable um because that that's unheard of that's unheard of if any of y'all if any of y'all are in health care and looking for a job yeah i don't know if they're hiring but choice hospice in vegas is 10 out of 10 and i know from personal experience because i want my my it's i i hate the term happy wife happy life that's horse shit fuck that i want my wife just happy in general as a human being and i know that she's happy right now in her position. which goes against everything we're talking about right now. So that's why I'm just like, and again, I love and trust you implicitly. So I love hearing it because it gives me better balance and just more of an objective view of what's going on on a national level in healthcare.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
She's very lucky. Because you're like, well, they're vindictive. I'm like, Jesus Christ, her boss makes fucking these great sourdough brownies. Like we're talking about.
- Speaker #0
Sourdough brownies. Oh,
- Speaker #1
they're fantastic. I'm never happy. She made these cinnamon buns that are like, they should be illegal. They're so fucking good. I now, I know where their office is and I have a, like, I know where Brandy is. We do it for safety reasons, right? And whenever I know she's at the office, if I'm driving around, now I start to be like, hey, what are you doing? Are there any brownies? What are you doing? Is there any treats? And there's a 99.9% chance there are treats. That's amazing. So I just happen to slide in and then I, and they're all, they're good to me. And so I don't, I'm never. Full disclosure, I'm never observing anything that's HIPAA related. Of course. I go in there, we say hi, cordial, I grab my treats, hang out for a little bit, and off I go. But that's the culture that she's in.
- Speaker #0
That's amazing.
- Speaker #1
Right? And so there is hope because I assume there's pockets like that around the country.
- Speaker #0
There are. Yeah. And California is a big one because the vast majority of nurses there. are unionized. So they have that protection and they have the mandated nurse to patient staffing ratios. So those nurses, I went to speak at an event there for nurses in Northern California last year, and they are amongst the highest paid nurses. They probably are the highest paid in the country. And they have the union. And so many of them have only ever worked there. I think that they often think the stuff like I talk about is exaggerated. Or they can't quite wrap their head around or appreciate it. And I'm like, you guys don't know how. good you have it here. And yeah, there's always room for improvement. Yes, it still has a long ways to go, but you have it so good here compared to 80% of the nurses out there.
- Speaker #1
Let's talk Nevada.
- Speaker #0
Let's do it.
- Speaker #1
Let's talk Nevada SB 182.
- Speaker #0
Yes.
- Speaker #1
And why should everyone care? What would nurse to patient ratio laws actually change in the daily lives of nurses and for patients.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, so SB 182 would establish minimum nurse to patient ratios, meaning the number of patients a nurse can have. This is by far the one thing, if I had to pick one thing that would change health care for patients and nurses, it would be mandated nurse to patient ratios across the board. Every year they reintroduce a federal bill and every year it dies in the Senate. There is California. There is, is it Washington or Oregon just became the second state. But that's it. That's it in the country. So this bill is now pending in Nevada. It has passed the Senate Assembly. So it has gained some traction. But we really need all the residents in Nevada. I'm going to tell you, I have it written down here to go to LEG. dot state dot nv dot us and click who's my legislator. Enter your address. You'll find your state senator or assembly member. Click on the legislator's name. You'll get their email. Email them. Write them at them on social media. Tweet them. Send snail mail and do it regularly and tell them they need to support and pass SB 182 because the opposition to that is outrageous. They had their first hearing a few weeks ago. When I tell you every chief nursing officer in the state showed up in opposition, the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce. Why? Why is the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce in opposition to this? I have no idea. They brought out all the guns. Now they had two days ago a new one. a new hearing about it. And our state senator, what is her name? Robin Titus, who is a physician. She's a physician. I believe she was an obstetrician. Stood up, opposed to it, went on a rant saying that all the hospitals are going to have to close if this gets approved, which are age-old scare tactics. That's what they said about California and they've had them. the mandated ratios for 20 years. So clearly that's not the case. Claims that it's going to be the destruction of everything. We won't be able to have like rural health care facilities, that there's no proof that it helps patient outcomes, which is absolutely not true. Study after study after study consistently shows that for each additional patient a nurse has above the recommended ratio for that specialty. all of those patients have between a 7% and 10% increased risk of death or serious complication. So if the recommended ratio is one nurse to four patients, and you give that nurse, let's say six patients, which is very common, it sometimes will be seven, eight, nine, I've seen 10. That means all six of those patients now have up to a 20% because it's per each extra patient, 20% increased risk of death or serious complications. Now, I don't know about you, but I'm not okay with those odds.
- Speaker #1
Chiron uses young for life wellness, and now he's literally glowing. Meanwhile, my glow comes from studio lighting and desperation.
- Speaker #0
Called wellness, Jeff.
- Speaker #1
I prefer denial. I wonder if Senator Titus, if we were to look at Her publicly disclosed donation list, what healthcare companies and how much have, what they've donated. I mean, that's been a big one now. I mean, it's free of information act. It's there.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
And we can see who.
- Speaker #0
I wouldn't be surprised at all.
- Speaker #1
And that's something that for you down the road, if you do a clip about her. Okay. And this is just, again, because I have friends in Carson City. So full disclosure, I have friends in Carson City. Nice. You always go back to the donor lists to see.
- Speaker #0
Not just by company, but individuals.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
If you see individuals that are putting in certain, like, go on LinkedIn and see what that person does.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Cross-reference that person's name from the donor list to LinkedIn, which is the number one B2B social media platform on the planet. Well, this person is, you know, senior VP at, you know, Vern Flanagan's, you know, healthcare company. um you know i think that's a that would be a good one for you for content because Again, look back at like what's going on outside of health. Well, some of healthcare too, but people like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren that are going at the Republicans for stuff. And again, I'm middle of the road, but I'm Republican right now because it's just, they're making changes.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Bernie and Warren are both coming at the Republicans about stuff where meanwhile, they're getting millions of dollars from healthcare from, from the healthcare companies and lobbyists and PACs are donating millions. So I wouldn't be surprised if the same thing is going on here in Nevada.
- Speaker #1
I wouldn't be surprised at all.
- Speaker #0
But just follow the money.
- Speaker #1
Always follow the money.
- Speaker #0
Follow the money.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
And we'll make a clip of what you said, and we'll put in the website. We'll put that link in along with what the website looks like so people can know what it looks like, and then so people can go ahead and do that. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Do hospitals treat nurses more like liabilities than lifesavers? Is the modern hospital system set up to discipline, threaten, and silence nurses more than support them?
- Speaker #1
Well, it's intrinsically paternalistic, right? It's a constant condescension, condescending tone in general. Nursing being a female-dominated profession, we have forever, since the dawn of the profession, historically been treated. Lesser than, you know, not given a seat at the table. This, I'll tell you the perfect way to illustrate this. We just had Nurses Week, National Nurses Week earlier this month. And, you know, this is a nationally recognized thing. It's been around forever. And it used to be a nice little celebration to acknowledge nurses by the employer. It has now become. a laughingstock and the the gifts quote unquote that they give nurses rocks rocks what that was a big one a couple years ago a rock a literal rock they walked outside got rocks maybe they washed them off maybe they didn't i don't mean to laugh but wait i gotta laugh they took paint and wrote on the rock you rock That was their gift.
- Speaker #0
The only thing better than that would be bringing back like candy stripers and give them the old uniforms back.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
We talked before about like the hats that nurses had to wear a long time ago. Like bring back candy stripers and here's a rock.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Like what the shit, man?
- Speaker #1
Speaking of hats, they, in addition to the just insulting gifts for nurses week, they will often come up with activities as if we have time to go do any. It's so ridiculous.
- Speaker #0
Team building activities.
- Speaker #1
Sidewalk chalk. I shit you not. And this is not isolated. A lot of places do this. Yeah. I shouldn't be laughing, but I'm laughing. Go outside and paint the sidewalk instead of treating your patients.
- Speaker #0
Fuck you, HVAC.
- Speaker #1
Right? And one place this year had arts and crafts to make your own paper nurse's hat.
- Speaker #0
Oh, my God.
- Speaker #1
Like we're in kindergarten with our little safety scissors and our glue and our red pen. To do the cross.
- Speaker #0
It just shows it's a glaring demonstration of how out of touch senior level hospital administration is with nurses.
- Speaker #1
Well, and they just don't care. You know, imagine doing that to a doctor during National Provider Week, Doctors Week. They would never. They would never think. Here's a rock. Here's some sidewalk chalk.
- Speaker #0
Picture giving a surgeon.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
A rock and some sidewalk chalk. Yeah. They'd fucking kill you.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yeah.
- Speaker #1
But the surgeons generate a lot of revenue. Nurses cannot bill for nursing services. And that would be a huge game changer if we could. Immediately overnight, we would be respected and treated better.
- Speaker #0
That's, and I had, we covered the question about with Nurses Week, but that is bananas.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Bananas.
- Speaker #1
There was one place this year that actually there was a couple. I swear they go to the same convention every year, the same conference, and they all get together and they're like, okay, so this year the theme for Nurses Week gifts. Personal massagers.
- Speaker #0
Oh, Jesus.
- Speaker #1
They gave him vibrators. Let's be real. Well,
- Speaker #0
I was going to say, but come on.
- Speaker #1
Let's be real.
- Speaker #0
Hey, if you're a woman and you want to double click your mouse, God bless. Have fun. Whatever relaxes you, you know, you enjoy.
- Speaker #1
That's hilarious. About three places this year.
- Speaker #0
Did it have the brand of the facility on there as well?
- Speaker #1
They always have it. Always.
- Speaker #0
How funny is that in terms of like the ultimate dystopian novel? Yeah. is that you're masturbating with a tool that is actually the cause for you wanting to masturbate in the first place.
- Speaker #1
That's a great analogy.
- Speaker #0
That's like something out of The Hunger Games.
- Speaker #1
It is.
- Speaker #0
Jesus Christ. Oh, my God, Erica. Oh, HCA. There you go. Holy Jesus. I'm okay. We touched this a little bit, but I wanted to double click on this. You call the management style in hospitals paternalistic. break that down for us what's it look like day to day and why doesn't the MBA mindset work in health care well you know so they take these
- Speaker #1
35 year old without any kind of health care background clinical experience that has an MBA degree and they put them in charge and they try to apply this business model to health care It simply doesn't work. Now, yeah, you have to be financially strong, right? You have to be able to support the business, and that has to be a concern. But their only goal is to increase the profit margin at any cost, often the cost of lives, right? So the difference is when you put someone with the clinical knowledge and experience in charge, they are approaching it. From the perspective of doing it for humanity at large, for the community. But you put the little MBA graduate in charge and they're doing it to get their bonus that year. To impress the investors because hospitals all employ professional investors, even the nonprofits.
- Speaker #0
Really?
- Speaker #1
Yes. Yes. That claim that they are, you know, destitute, they're going broke.
- Speaker #0
Of course.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Of course they are.
- Speaker #1
They employ professional investors most of the time. They do.
- Speaker #0
We need to work on, this is off topic, but on topic. We need to have coffee sometime.
- Speaker #1
Okay.
- Speaker #0
And I want to help, again, I like business stuff and helping stuff. That's why I'm a pleaser. All right. How can we get you enough money to give you a national platform to just. you know, be the megaphone even at a larger level to let, because people need to know this stuff.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
And it's just, it obviously it's falling on deaf ears if it's still, this stuff is still going on.
- Speaker #1
I think I scare a lot of, well, I know I do groups and organizations off because I am very direct. I am very blunt in my communication. I am very transparent. And that's off-putting for a lot of people. I recognize that. And so, you know, as much as I, for example, support unions, I'm the biggest pro-union person out there and I do anything and everything for nursing unions. They don't often reach out to me, even though I am probably one of their best resources at getting the message out, you know, because I don't think they want to be. associated with a loud mouth. I don't know.
- Speaker #0
Well, I think devil's advocate, I think it portrays them as a whistleblower, someone that's going to rock the boat. And so when they're going to the table across from the administration for salary negotiations, benefits and all that, it gives them kind of maybe one arm tied behind their back because of who they're affiliating themselves with. But desperate times, man, desperate measures. Come on, y'all.
- Speaker #1
And, you know, I'm keenly aware always that I only have this path in life, this kind of career that I've created for myself by accident because nurses have been systematically abused for generations. I only have this platform because nurses have been systematically abused for generations. Think about that.
- Speaker #0
It would be nice if you worked yourself out of a job.
- Speaker #1
It would be great. I would love that.
- Speaker #0
Right?
- Speaker #1
I would love that.
- Speaker #0
I think we'd all love that for you.
- Speaker #1
I would love to go to the celebratory party after the federal legislation is passed for nurse to patient ratios and to make it a felony to assault a health care worker and say. It's my swan song. It's been great, guys. I'm out.
- Speaker #0
What do you think of, at a national level, RFK Jr.? Is he going to have an impact on health care and the ethical and fair treatment of nurses?
- Speaker #1
For nurses, no. I mean, I don't know if you followed any of Dr. Oz's Senate appointment hearings. Did you see? Did you hear what he said?
- Speaker #0
No.
- Speaker #1
So Dr. Oz said we don't necessarily need to get more nurses in long-term care in nursing homes. What we need is more AI nurses and remote nurses. So we don't need you there in person to be a nurse, to do the nursing skills, to assess the patients. We're going to put some AI technology in there, some remote nurses that can hopefully communicate through a computer to the patient.
- Speaker #0
that can't probably communicate back you know and so he's in support of that kind of crap you know um how how would ai help out a dementia patient that the ai say say it's like like you know tesla's making the robots now whatever like the ai being yeah say that comes in with little nurses hat on that they made at arts and crafts they made an arts and crafts week because they don't want to the pet the rock so they instead they have they have that and the ai thing comes in and sees a Dementia unit. a dementia patient eating their own feces.
- Speaker #1
That happens. I know. They keep painting on the walls. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Like, yeah. Yeah. Like, how, like, the toxic chemistry, the toxicity of that in terms of the environment, like, how does an AI, like, not break, you know, over time without getting, like, fecal matter in your, you know, little finger units?
- Speaker #1
Even hands-on in that way, they will then... call the nurse that is there or the CNA, whomever, and interrupt them in whatever task they're in the middle of and tell them they need to go do something. So how is that remotely helpful?
- Speaker #0
No, it spreads that person even more thin.
- Speaker #1
Correct.
- Speaker #0
On what they're doing with their workload.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Now they're working with, let's say, six patients, which is too many. Yep. And then on top of that, they have an AI unit that they're also working for that's going to grab them. not knowing where they're at and what they're doing, and that they're already busy with patient care, right?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, yeah. Like,
- Speaker #0
what the shit, Dr. Oz?
- Speaker #1
It's absolutely insane. He says, I think his argument was, well, look, they're so severely understaffed in long-term care that essentially there's nothing we can do about it. You're not going to be able to get more nurses in there because the quote-unquote nursing shortage and all of that. So the solution is AI and remote. nursing, telehealth, telehealth and all that. The solution is pay them appropriately and give them safe working conditions. Give them a reasonable safe amount of patients and some basic security. And guess what? You will have all the nurses that you need. It's really not that complicated.
- Speaker #0
It's something that, again, it's basic economics for me with business plans is um what's the hospital here southern hills hospital my son jack was born there and we had such an amazing experience with their labor and delivery that that's where i went i think i had my um my appendix taken out there okay and at the time i was living in henderson all the way across town i drove myself because i was with at that time in a not good relationship with my wife and she was off doing whatever. And so I drove myself knowing you had with an And I, but I drove past St. Rose Dominican. St. Rose Dominican, I'd rather be treated by a leper colony in the Seychelles than fucking go to St. Rose Dominican to get treated for anything. And that's on me. And if you want to come after me, eat a bag of dicks because they're awful. They were awful to me. And so I drove myself all the way, half an hour drive across town, got there. They got me. They admitted me. They said, if you'd have waited one more day, your appendix would have burst. Yeah. you would have been done yeah first done so i go there because we had such a good experience with labor and delivery now they're gonna get my business whenever i'm sick yeah and so that's like wait a minute provide a good service right and you're gonna get business from that it's pretty simple i don't have an mba erica but i don't wake up but you have common sense i just i i'm not the smartest guy You know, in the room, but I'm not the dumbest guy either. It's common sense.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
And that's the part that just, there's a big disconnect there.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Huge.
- Speaker #0
Right?
- Speaker #1
Huge.
- Speaker #0
Okay. I love these questions because it's questions I've come up with. A couple of them I have had to cross off because you've already answered them like wonderfully well. I love that. I love your brain, man. Is it fair to say that many nurses are in an abusive relationship with their employer, working off the clock, being written up for 15 minutes of overtime, constant threats? How is this tolerated?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, there's a lot of parallels between an abusive relationship between, say, two partners. or husband and wife and being a nurse. You know, it's like I have to stay for the kids. I have to stay for the patients. Who's going to take care of the patients? There's a lot of that of, well, they're saying that they're working on it. They're trying. They're getting better. They're going to therapy. Your manager is telling you, we just listed two positions. We're trying. We're going to get you guys help. They just keep. breadcrumbing you and nothing ever changes. So there's a lot of parallels there. But yeah, it's so toxic and I don't think people understand. So you mentioned the overtime. They will absolutely scrutinize if you have any fractional overtime. So you clock out 15 minutes later than the end or shift. Why? Because you have too many patients, right? And it's impossible to get the work done, but they don't want to acknowledge that. So, and granted from a facility organizational standpoint, fractional overtime adds up to millions of dollars. It does. And so you do need to be aware of it. But what they'll do is they will start micromanaging nurses and every single day call you in the office. You know, in the middle of you're in the middle of a million things and you get a phone call from the manager, I need to speak to you in my office in front of everybody, you know, so it's embarrassing. And you go in, you had eight minutes of fractional overtime. We are going to, you know, sometimes put you on a PIP, a performance improvement plan. We're going to be monitoring this. If this doesn't improve, you're going to have progressive discipline. You're going to be written up, whatever. And so what often happens is nurses will clock out when they need to clock out and stay in work for free off the clock, which is illegal. It's illegal. Management knows they're doing that. They know it's illegal. That's wage theft. They don't care because it's good for their bonuses if their unit doesn't have fractional overtime. It's good for the organization's profit margin. but That is how beaten into submission nurses are, very much like victims of abuse in relationships. We are beaten down long enough that we start to do those things. I don't care. I can't get called into Kathy's office one more time. I don't care. I'm going to clock out and stay and finish my charting. And sometimes they'll stay for an hour and a half, two hours, because they're so behind because of the workload for free. Or they're told that they have poor time management skills. That's a really common one, really common. They gaslight the hell out of them and say, you know, you need to work on your time management. If you had appropriate time management skills, you would be able to clock out on time. Maybe you need to come in early and look all your patients up ahead of time so that you can get through a shift change report quicker. Well, again. They're not allowed to clock in when they get there because you can't clock in until the appointed time. So they're coming in early. They're accessing medical records, electronic health records, which is actually a HIPAA violation. They should not be doing that because they're off the clock. But the manager has been encouraging that and telling them that to do that. So we're working for free. We're putting ourselves in jeopardy because, like I said, HIPAA violations. wage theft, all of that. We're complacent with that, but we're so beaten down into submission and always told it's our fault. You know, we are the victims. Poor time management. I was told I had poor time management after I'd been a nurse 15 years. Like, be for real.
- Speaker #0
Come on.
- Speaker #1
Be for real. I can do this in my sleep. It's not my time management, you know, but that's what they do.
- Speaker #0
And is this going on? everywhere. It's just epidemic. Yeah, it's very pervasive. Every healthcare company is practicing time theft.
- Speaker #1
Oh, that, yeah. And there's been a lot of class action lawsuits. But that's another thing. Nurses are afraid to pursue the class action lawsuits. The few that have. And actually, where I worked, they had one. And it took years to go through the court system, but it was very successful. And they were awarded millions of dollars, which then gets split between the employees that had the courage to put their name on the class action. But most of them don't have the courage to do that because, again, retaliation. Management's going to see who put their name on it. And then there's going to be retaliation for putting your name on the lawsuit that you were a thousand percent a victim of that. Alleged crime. You know?
- Speaker #0
Wow.
- Speaker #1
It's insane.
- Speaker #0
Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. Why are nursing students taught theory and fantasy, but not real world chaos? You've said it's borderline criminal.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
What kind of damage does that do to new nurses?
- Speaker #1
Oh, it's so damaging. Something like 40% of new nurses leave nursing, not just a job, nursing within the first year. After spending years and how much money to become a nurse and get that degree? Up to 60% by the second year. Yeah, it's outrageous. And then they claim there's a nursing shortage. No, it's a shortage of nurses willing to work in the toxic conditions. Yeah, they don't prepare nursing students for reality. They teach them theory. Theory is very important. Nursing theory, very much so. But it's this perfect textbook world. where A and B will equal C. And that just doesn't happen in reality. So they're thrown out there without knowing basic things like, you know, you really need to have a copy of your nurse practice act. You need to have that on you. You need to, which is basically the rule book for nurses in that state, what you can and can't do. You need to know that it's different state to state. So if you travel, you need, if you're a travel nurse, you need to get familiar with that state. You need to know your individual state labor laws. You need to know if they can force you to work mandatory overtime or not. You need to have professional liability insurance. That's a big one. They lie to nurses and say, you don't need your own liability insurance because the hospital has it and you'll be under the hospital's policy. And while that's technically true, that's just not the way it plays out because that's their insurance policy. So of course it's going to. default to protect the organization. And what they do is they throw the nurse under the bus and make them the scapegoat almost every time. And so then they can say, well, it was the nurse's fault. We got rid of them. So, you know, like we've washed our hands of it. We did our part. We got rid of the problem. Right. So they need to be told things like that. You need your own professional liability insurance. You need to know your rights in your state. You need to be familiar with what the State Board of Nursing. can and can't do. You need to have your nurse, like all these basic skills that every nurse needs to have and be intimately familiar with are almost never touched on in nursing programs. So they get out there completely oblivious to all of it. And then someone like me comes along and says, you need your own professional liability insurance. You need this, you need that. And they're like, what? No, I was told the employer. I don't need that. Why do you think? Why do you think they don't want you to have your own liability insurance? Is it maybe because then you'll have someone fighting for you and standing up for your interests and rights instead of the organization's? Yeah, of course it is.
- Speaker #0
You're letting the fox watch the hen house.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. They need to know about unions, that it's your right to unionize. They need. It's never taught in nursing school ever.
- Speaker #0
Wow, wow, wow, wow, wow. How many medical errors are linked to untreated nurse mental health? If the system scares nurses out of getting help, how does that impact patient safety?
- Speaker #1
Well, we do know that untreated mental health conditions in nurses does lead to medical errors, right? I mean, that's just common sense, right? If you suffer from something long enough and it's untreated and it's compounded every day in these horrible, toxic, unsafe working conditions, the inevitable result sometimes will be an unintentional error. Right. That's just common sense. We do know that. So it's a it's a patient safety issue. It really is. It's not even about nurses. It is. But it's about patients. So you, your loved ones, when you're in the hospital. may very well pay the price for nurses not being. given the freedom to get the help they need.
- Speaker #0
Wow.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Yeah, yeah. What happens to a nurse who simply says, I'm not okay? What's the risk of being honest in today's healthcare system?
- Speaker #1
Reported to the Board of Nursing under the guise of, well, maybe they need help. Maybe we need to get them the help that they need. Or you report it to the manager because maybe you have genuine concern. But then the manager goes to the board of nursing or makes them go on some kind of monitoring thing or meet with them weekly, basically put them under a microscope, which isn't helping anyone. Or they say, you know, we have an EAP counselor for the hospital, an employee assistance counselor. Well, they have one for hundreds and thousands of employees and you can barely get an appointment with them. But they'll say like, well, we did our part. We offered you resources. Oh, you mean Kenny? Kenny down on the first floor whose next available appointment is November 5th? 2027? Yeah.
- Speaker #0
It's almost like the healthcare administration system is set up to make nurses vulnerable to the point of self-harm.
- Speaker #1
Yes.
- Speaker #0
And then when those nurses. reach out for help or try to get things changed for the betterment of them and for the betterment ultimately of the patients that is weaponized against them.
- Speaker #1
A hundred percent. Yes. We are set up for failure. From day one, we are set up for failure.
- Speaker #0
Has it always been this way? Has healthcare always been this way as far back as you can remember?
- Speaker #1
Yeah, it has. I mean, I have been in nursing now for close to 30 years, first as a nursing assistant and then as a registered nurse. It has been, this has been my experience from day one. Yeah. Now, did things get even worse with COVID? Yes. And unfortunately, it has not gone back down. But this has always been the case.
- Speaker #0
Speaking of COVID.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
What do you think of The Pit?
- Speaker #1
Oh, it's such a good show. I've seen every episode. I'm obsessed.
- Speaker #0
I'm a Noah Wiley guy. Yeah, me too. ER. I love it. Full circle. I'm in, I'm... I'm not a show guy, but I'm like, I was like, okay, I'll give it a shot. And I was like, go HBO. Right. Like, oh my God.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
And it was.
- Speaker #1
It's very realistic.
- Speaker #0
I was going to say, how realistic was it?
- Speaker #1
I would say it's the most realistic medical show that I've ever seen. They clearly, not only are the little details being addressed. So like the right equipment, the right placement of whatever. Clearly they have medical staff. on set that is directing all of that, but they are tackling some of these really big issues, like violence in hospitals, the nursing shortage. They're addressing those.
- Speaker #0
They have men coming down.
- Speaker #1
Yeah, I think in the first episode. They did that. It was amazing. Yeah, I have one criticism for the show, and it's that there's not a lot of nurses. And yeah, it's a doctor. focused physician focused show so that makes sense but a lot of the procedures that you see them doing would actually be done by a nurse really yeah but the accuracy otherwise on point is on yeah it
- Speaker #0
was one of the clips i saw was and it was noah wiley saying their approach was unlike any other any other medical show yeah er um st elsewhere like gray's and gray's anatomy is so i think my anatomy is still on for five seasons like 27 jesus christ yeah it's that was always from the purview of the patient yeah a lot of times is what it was uh where this is more the purview of the health care provider the nurse the doctor.
- Speaker #1
Yes.
- Speaker #0
You know, it's how an ER is actually like run. And that's why I think. After watching that, and I've just heard that to be a nurse, ER is not your first choice. It might be your first choice in the beginning for the first year or so.
- Speaker #1
There's a lot of nurses that gravitate towards ER. I am not one of them. But a lot of nurses thrive in that environment. The adrenaline rush, the total variety, never knowing what you're going to get.
- Speaker #0
That makes sense. Yeah. I forgot. I want to ask you about that because I love the show.
- Speaker #1
Love it. So good. Well, my son actually just texted me yesterday, and he's not in the medical world at all. And he started watching it. And I think he got to episode three, and he said, I can't watch it anymore. It's too sad. And I said, it's reality. He said, people are dying. They are dying.
- Speaker #0
People are dying.
- Speaker #1
They are dying.
- Speaker #0
Like how they handled a mass casualty event.
- Speaker #1
Yeah. Yeah.
- Speaker #0
bananas because then i'm thinking i go back to when we had october one i was i was they were working at the level one trauma center that when that happened so you're at umc yep um i had my most watched youtube clip is a friend of mine phil ulrich and shout out to phil he was he was shot multiple times yeah and so we put together police body cam footage of at that time his girlfriend Now they're married and they have kids. Her getting the... Like the one guy to go like off, go off reservation. Please, my husband needs help. And they packed a bunch of people in the back of his car and they're going to go to Centennial. And then either Phil or one of them said, no, we need to go to UMC.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
And so he's going like a hundred down the strip.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
Get into UMC. And like it was a medically induced coma. He was in for like two weeks. Yeah. Like wild. And the wildest part, the clip that got the most views was. Phil ended up reconnecting with the metro officer that saved his life.
- Speaker #1
Oh, awesome.
- Speaker #0
That got him to UMC. And he says, you know, I own a mortgage company in town. What can I do? Can I get you a free mortgage? Like, what do you need? Yeah. He pulls out. He goes, well, we're actually looking for a house now. Pulls out a pre-approval letter from First Option Mortgage signed by Philip Ulrich, president.
- Speaker #1
That's amazing.
- Speaker #0
So it was just, and they're friends to this day.
- Speaker #1
I love that.
- Speaker #0
And so, but it was. Even though we have horrific health care here in Vegas, UMC is a really good facility.
- Speaker #1
It's great for trauma.
- Speaker #0
Am I wrong in saying that at the trauma level?
- Speaker #1
If I or a loved one was a victim of a trauma, I would want to go to UMC. That is all I will say.
- Speaker #0
Well said. Well said, my love. Moving on. Oh, this segues great into our next question. What's the cost of silence? Right here. Button 13. Both for nurses and the patients they're trying to protect. Why do so many nurses keep their heads down and what happens when they finally can't?
- Speaker #1
It's that fear of retaliation again. The general apathy amongst nurses is off the charts. Very apathetic in nature. And that's a generalization. Nurses get mad at me when I say that. But unfortunately, it's true. Not for everyone, but it's true. A lot of nurses lack courage. And we pay the price because we don't stand up and we stay silent. We pay the price. Our careers pay the price. And ultimately, patients pay the price. It's a patient safety issue.
- Speaker #0
It's crazy.
- Speaker #1
It is.
- Speaker #0
It's crazy. Last question. What do you want every person? watching or listening to this to do right now to help. Give us action. Give us the action step. Who do we call email tag pressure?
- Speaker #1
Well, if you're here in Nevada, the SB 182 that we mentioned earlier, there are three key pieces of federal legislation. I think I mentioned it last time I was here. It's the Safe Staffing Act. It has a long actual name. That's a nickname. It's like Nurse Patient Safety Quality of Care Act. something. I've got them all on my website on nurseerica.com if you want to look. There is the Workplace Violence Act and then the PRO Act, which would make it substantially easier to unionize for anyone, not just nurses. So these three pieces of legislation would be game changers for the whole healthcare sector. If you can pressure your representatives, your legislators to support this. And you can't just send that one email. You've got to keep on them every week. Resend it. Make an appointment. You can go and meet with your representative. At them on social media. That gets their attention. Send the snail mail. But keep doing it. And you end every single communication with, if you fail to support this bill, this legislation, myself and my family will not support you in all future. election campaigns because that's what they care about.
- Speaker #0
That's great.
- Speaker #1
Yeah.
- Speaker #0
That's great. And I don't do like work. Everybody finds you like it's you're going to be tagged on everything. We collab on everything. already. Thank you for coming in.
- Speaker #1
Thank you.
- Speaker #0
I just, I admire you. I love your brain. I love you as a person. You're just, your heart's in the right place. And I know that you are sometimes fighting or all the time fighting overwhelming adversity, but I'm a fan, man. The Fargo's are fans of you and what you're doing. And the door is always open for you to step in here. If there's something that is really getting at you and schedules align, let's get you in here and let's talk about it. Right? I just, I can't thank you enough for doing what you do. And I'm not even in the healthcare field, but the person I love.
- Speaker #1
Vicariously you are.
- Speaker #0
Well, the person I love more than anything in the entire world. I mean, it's the only thing better than being married to a nurse is looking at a nurse's ass in purple jegs. The greatest thing ever. The best. She's going to be like, he's an asshole for saying that, but it's the truth. Or black is good, but purple is my favorite on her. And so I love that the best. So thank you for getting rid of all the old uniforms and all that stuff. And now at least like somewhat.
- Speaker #1
You like the joggers. Oh, with the cuffs on the bottom. Oh,
- Speaker #0
hell yeah.
- Speaker #1
Cute.
- Speaker #0
Hell, oh, hell yeah.
- Speaker #1
A little bit of ankle showing.
- Speaker #0
A little bit of ankle. I'm not even a foot guy, but ankle. Oh, hell yeah. Done. Thank you, my love.
- Speaker #1
You're welcome. Very much.
