Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Popular. We're gonna be popular. I don't know any more of the words.

• Speaker #1

  With the right cohorts, you'll be good at sports. Know the slang you've got to know. So let's start, cause you've got an awfully long way to go.

• Speaker #0

  Woo! Welcome to Hogg. We are doing a big movie. Bonanza today on the show. Your weekly dose of pop culture nourishment has been overtaken by Glicket, Gladiator 2 and Wicked. Doing that song there made me think how funny if Gladiator was a musical. That would be such a lull.

• Speaker #1

  It'd be like Les Mis.

• Speaker #0

  It would. With like loads of death. Yeah. Myself, Clara Kavanaugh and my darling little girl, Sophie Lyons, are going to be taking you through our thoughts on the two movies. We hope you have seen them or enjoying the press tours around them. We have so much to discuss. So, how are you?

• Speaker #1

  I've just realised I'm in an Elphaba vibe and you're in a Galinda vibe.

• Speaker #0

  I am!

• Speaker #1

  You're like pinks and stuff and I have like green. Tea?

• Speaker #0

  I never thought of myself as a Galinda.

• Speaker #1

  Am I Elphaba?

• Speaker #0

  Well, if the shoe fits.

• Speaker #1

  Classic Gazza. Classic. I'm really excited to chat.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, we've got so much to get through. I'm very giddy and... I think we've really done a research this up. And so let's kick things off. What are you loving and hating from the week? Is it J'adore or is it J'attest?

• Speaker #1

  I teed the content of this up with you yesterday because I wanted you to see it. But Chris Martin and Gwyneth... It's a J'adore. Chris Martin and Gwyneth Paltrow's daughter, Apple. Is that like a cotillion bowl? Like, you know, there's debutante bowls that they do in Paris. It's like a coming out thing. And she's getting all this attention for like just being a bit of a wench. It's so funny. She's rolling her eyes. She's going in front of other girls when they're getting their photo taken. And she's rolling her eyes at her date at one point. It's so funny. I'll link a few of them in the show notes. Because she's been like completely off the grid. I don't think she has a public Instagram or anything.

• Speaker #0

  I hadn't seen a picture of her. I never knew what they looked like.

• Speaker #1

  And it's just really funny.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Because she seems like an absolute wagon.

• Speaker #0

  And where you notice it the most is in the other debutantes. And they're like, oh.

• Speaker #1

  The way she's walking through is like a caricature. She's like.

• Speaker #0

  This is my.

• Speaker #1

  This is my time. On all the things she has like her hand on her, like placed on her hip. It's very funny. And I obviously have such an interest in celebrities like teenage kids and stuff.

• Speaker #0

  I know because it's like mad that they obviously they grow up. but she's 20.

• Speaker #1

  Also, I never thought that would be a thing that they would be like, let's do, put her in a debutante ball.

• Speaker #0

  It's very un-goop.

• Speaker #1

  It's very un-Chris Martin.

• Speaker #0

  And he's there in a black tie. That's the most clothes I have ever seen him in.

• Speaker #1

  You need to get rid of this hatred.

• Speaker #0

  He's always wearing a belly top.

• Speaker #1

  He loves belly tops. He's a great bot.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Yeah, you're not lying. But anyway, it was weird seeing him so formally as a...

• Speaker #1

  And they were like slow dancing.

• Speaker #0

  She's so tall. And I heard her dress took 750 hours to make. It had a real Cinderella vibe to it.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it did. She did look like almost like a Disney character in real life, but just kind of bitchy.

• Speaker #0

  She did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Like one of the evil stepsisters.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, but she's like gorgeous.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, exactly. Have a look.

• Speaker #0

  She was in her villain era.

• Speaker #1

  It's really entertaining. That's mine, short and sweet. What's yours,

• Speaker #0

  Gazza? Mine is a J'adore that's on the touch of a J'gest. Roger. Bailey's Christmas. Hello. We got given a bottle over the weekend from mixed parents and it's basically gone. It's so easy to drink. Copy few ice cubes in there. Hello, Christmas. But now that we're at like circling the end of the bottle, it's getting a touch, you know, and you've had too much dairy and it gets a bit curdley. So this time next week. I think I'll be done. I'll have had my Christmas full of it.

• Speaker #1

  I loved Baileys, but then I got to a point where I was like, no, it's too sweet.

• Speaker #0

  I think I'm reaching that curdle point. Turns your stomach.

• Speaker #1

  Like I want it more on the coffee sweet side. It's delicious. It's delicious.

• Speaker #0

  I'd love to try the mint one.

• Speaker #1

  Is there a mint one? Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  well, I only know that because of Gavin and Stacey, but I'm pretty sure there is. They do those different flavors. Oh, I would...

• Speaker #1

  Totally. I saw them in the airport and they were doing, is there a pina colada flavour?

• Speaker #0

  Of Baileys?

• Speaker #1

  Something ridiculous. It was something like fruity. Oh no, no,

• Speaker #0

  no, no, no, that's too far. I do like an orange Baileys, it reminded me of Terry's Chocolate Orange.

• Speaker #1

  It's very Christmassy.

• Speaker #0

  Anyway, tis the season and to use the trigger word... Hello, silly season.

• Speaker #1

  Bonjour, silly season. What a nice gift. Now, I don't think people our age drink it enough.

• Speaker #0

  It was fantastic. A full, like, liter bottle as well. It was like, whoa.

• Speaker #1

  What an iconic couple. You and them. Just in case this goes live, the reason I'm sitting so far back is because Gowser made some great promo content during the week, but, like, my face was like this. And I was in my pajamas as well. So apologies. Speaking of Wicked Stacked Sisters, what's her name? Apple Martin. We're going to move on to the first review of today's episode, which is none other than Wicked. I saw it with my mum, great viewing partner. I didn't read reviews. I just knew it was doing really well, but I didn't read any reviews. I didn't want any spoilers. I didn't want any anything. Did you?

• Speaker #0

  No, I read nothing. Yeah, I followed your advice.

• Speaker #1

  Roger that. For people who read reviews and then don't go to the cinema to see it, you need to go to therapy. Yeah. Moving on. Why don't we talk about the outline for people who haven't seen it? Because I have a top line outline.

• Speaker #0

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  Right. So I've seen the stage show when I was about 17. So that didn't really... do anyhow.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  The film and the stage show are both loosely based on Gregory Maguire's 1995 novel Wicked, The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West, which offers an alternative backstory from the Wicked Witch from Wizard of Oz. The film focuses on Wicked's early years and two young witches to be green-skinned outcast Elphaba who will go on to become the Wicked Witch of the West and the vain popular Galinda who will eventually blossom into Galinda the Good. I I forgot all these bits and I'm delighted I did. So I went in with a clean slate. I have a few Easter eggs for us. I also have some fun filming locations. But my review, top line, wow, isn't that just what we need in these days?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it was like top notch quality musical. Wicked wouldn't be my... I saw Wicked once when I was like 20 something. I kind of forgot about it. I knew it was like the backstory, but I... Like, I basically forgot the stage show was that long ago. But they've just, it's such high production value, such great acting as a whole. Five out of five, ten out of ten. It was amazing. And just really, it got to the heart of the story really well. And it didn't, and I think because it was longer, obviously it's two hours and 40 minutes, and that's only the first part one, like before the interval of the stage show.

• Speaker #1

  I know, I didn't, I didn't know they filmed it all at the same time.

• Speaker #0

  I think that was a great idea because...

• Speaker #1

  Great idea.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, because then you would have the press and the public's opinions playing on the actor's performance. OK, we'll come to Ariana. But as somebody who didn't know Cynthia Erivo, I was watching all the press bits, like the Ariana holding Cynthia's nail and the holding space, all those viral videos that have done the rounds. But all I knew about Cynthia was she was this Tony Award winning Broadway stage actress. I only saw it last night. So. Knowing all that about her and then seeing her perform, it was like you could just tell how much experience she has. She's totally different to who she is in real life. You can just see how seasoned an actor she is. It was such an amazing performance. For someone, when you don't know who they are, if you've ever seen them in anything before. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  she's so captivating.

• Speaker #0

  She was really, really able to hold that space because I think Glinda goes through more of a character arc than Elphaba. She kind of stays the same, but the world kind of changes around her. But she stays the same.

• Speaker #1

  You are so insightful already.

• Speaker #0

  Whereas Glinda goes through quite a physical character change. And I thought Glinda's story is in a way more like visible. It's more, oh, wow, she's good now. And she used to be really stuck up. So, yeah, that's a harder act to play as Elphaba because you stay the same.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, definitely.

• Speaker #0

  And be able to hold that space.

• Speaker #1

  And some of it's really sad.

• Speaker #0

  So sad.

• Speaker #1

  When she's like growing up and stuff. It's all really, that really hurt me.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, really hurt.

• Speaker #1

  I thought it was really emotional. And then there's a lovely scene where she's dancing. And they're in this like.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, at the prom or the ball thing.

• Speaker #1

  Fish nightclub type thing. Yes. And Elphaba's doing this dance by herself. in her new hat her new hat and then everyone's like what the fuck are you doing like staring at her literally being like you're a loser like they're saying stuff to her and it's so mean I'm assuming people have seen it and then when Ariana joins her that moment you could hear a pin drop it was so beautiful it really was it made me it brought me almost to tears like I thought it was really emotional and the way they're just like the silent crying like that must be so hard to do

• Speaker #0

  I'm not graceful enough to do that yeah yeah Yeah, I thought Ariana, she is so funny.

• Speaker #1

  She's unbelievable.

• Speaker #0

  Honestly, it's a great, I think from reading stuff around it after seeing it, like it's a funny character and like, you know, she's so obsessed with herself and really delusional and all this stuff. The hair tossing. Oh my God, can I hair toss like that forever? Toss on.

• Speaker #1

  I think she's, and she's also quite subtle in some of her stuff.

• Speaker #0

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  Even though she is quite a big character. Like I thought she was so good. And she said in one of her many press tour moments, she was like, I feel like I've probably gotten a bit lost over the last few years with like maybe the music she's making or her image and all that kind of stuff. And she was like, I feel like this kind of brought me back to who I was. And it's really nice to see her so stripped back.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Even just visually. But like her voice is unbelievable. And you sometimes forget that when she's singing some of her pop songs, like her voice is insane.

• Speaker #0

  I know. But they live sung the whole film.

• Speaker #1

  I was wondering this,

• Speaker #0

  didn't they? And even like Elphaba did the, like Cynthia Erivo did the stunts herself while singing. So you can hear sometimes when she's on her broom, like going 90, there's a bit of like, like she's like, or like, and then still singing. That's because it was like all live recorded.

• Speaker #1

  Because it sounds so like they are just singing.

• Speaker #0

  you know like Les Mis yeah they did that with Les Mis as well wow and that's where I think you get like the real theatre buffs like the Broadway heads then you're like oh respect you know it's like you got my respect all those little like theatre kids West End theatre kids are like buzzing buzzing over it because it's such a talent oh my god their voices are incredible I can't believe that yeah their bond that they formed is so special and so unique and it's so earnest yeah And I think it was when the movie got released, it was all around the American election, where like people, theatre kids or LGBTQ plus people, might not have felt that they had like a space anywhere. And then to have this story and this movie come out with all this music and all this joy and all this like a real message to it, accepting who you are, and then even all the stuff with all the animals being captured, repressed. And I think that's supposed to reflect like the civil rights movement. But I think the timing of the release and the election kind of all snowballed in together. While they're being so earnest about it, it's actually just allowing everybody just gush over the film and how good it is. And if you're any kind of a fan of musical theatre, this is like cream of the crop. They did everything so well.

• Speaker #1

  You just like encapsulated a lovely quote I got from a professional writer at The Guardian.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, go on.

• Speaker #1

  Honestly, Gazza, you basically said what they said. And that's your opinion. They were like, with its all too timely themes of bullying corrupt leaders and the demonisation of difference, this is a movie that promises a froth of pink and green escapism, but delivers considerably more in the way of depth and darkness. Oh. I thought that was a great quote, but that's basically what you just said. Oh,

• Speaker #0

  wow. I didn't read that.

• Speaker #1

  I know you didn't. That's why I'm saying it, Gaston.

• Speaker #0

  And how good is The Prince? You know, Jonathan Bailey from Bridgerton? But I love how he's like a really openly gay man playing the biggest heartthrob that everybody fancies. And he's really hot. He's stunning. Yeah,

• Speaker #1

  he is. And you know Bowen Yang.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Oh,

• Speaker #1

  I love him.

• Speaker #0

  His glasses are so extra.

• Speaker #1

  He's brilliant in it.

• Speaker #0

  It's just a perfect celebration of female friendship, life, standing up for yourself and not feeling alone. It was just like a lovely...

• Speaker #1

  It's okay to be different.

• Speaker #0

  It's okay to be different. And sorry, like... The staging, the makeup. I love how it's called Shiz University as well. It's like, hey. It's like very like noughties. Fo Shiz.

• Speaker #1

  Speaking of set and locations, I actually have a list. Oh, yes. I saw this on, I think it was Time 8 like last week. But I love hearing stuff like this. So it's primarily filmed at Sky Studios, Elstree and Boreham Wood, which is Essex. That's just over 14 miles north of London. In order to have as much control of production as possible, they took full advantage of the stage-of-the-art film studio with 12 sound stages.

• Speaker #0

  Whoa.

• Speaker #1

  It was so humongous, they used stages at the nearby Elstree Studios and at the Warner Brothers Studios Leavesden, home of Harry Potter, and more recently, Wonka. Oh,

• Speaker #0

  my God.

• Speaker #1

  Munchkinland was built in Buckinghamshire, a small village just outside of Luton. You'll see, you know, that big thing of all the tulips, and they're all different colours across. like huge plot of land. They actually cultivated nine million tulips in Norfolk.

• Speaker #0

  Whoa!

• Speaker #1

  They filmed it and then they incorporated it into the footage. And I think I read that it's going to be open to the public next year.

• Speaker #0

  Oh my God, like Wicked Land or Oz. Well,

• Speaker #1

  the tulip thing, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  That's amazing! Nine million!

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And then the locations for the boats travelling to Shiz is the Seven Sisters Country Park. Because you can see bits of that, you know, you can see the cliffs at some points. She kind of stands at the end of one, yeah.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, that was very... very

• Speaker #1

  British you know even when they go to The Wizard and he has the the miniaturised version of where he has the yellow brick road that they're talking about all that miniaturised I love anything miniature like that yeah that was amazing that was amazing Jeff Goldblum was a great choice for us yeah it's so creepy because I forgot all this so I didn't know his character was going to turn yeah and when he did I was like oh because he's actually very good at playing that

• Speaker #0

  He is. He's good. Is he? He's really lent into that kind of like mythical,

• Speaker #1

  evil genius. I thought he was really good.

• Speaker #0

  Can you now explain to me, maybe you know, maybe you don't. What's going on with Ariana? Did she get with the Bic Buck guy? Bic? Buck? Buck?

• Speaker #1

  What's his name? The red haired man?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, that gentleman, that munchkin.

• Speaker #1

  So she was married and he was married. believe has a child with someone else and it came out that when they were filming with it that actually those two had gotten together and then I think that was the push that she had to say oh I've filed for divorce like I'm getting divorced but it was a big deal because he had a child with another woman and the child was pretty fresh I think it was a baby it was like a baby yeah and

• Speaker #0

  was he did he play like Spongebob in a musical in London in the musical you or was that the other who's the husband of Ariana before oh he's some like real estate person he's not in anything oh that guy okay great backstory yeah thank you wow God Wicked is really taking over their lives and do you see how many tattoos Cynthia and Ariana have all Wicked ones yeah and they have to get them all airbrushed off yeah and they had like they're all like each other's tattoos so like oh wait no sorry I thought you meant during filming they would like have to airbrush off her tattoos yeah yeah sorry they got them done during the filming but they have like one of them Cynthia has a Glinda one and Ariana has a Elphaba one and there's loads and then Ariana has like Glinda the good witch on her hand there on the front of her hand is it a big one yeah well it's like the size of her paw what do you call this the other side of your palm the back of your hand the back of your hand oh there it's like yeah the whole thing where are we they're all wicked wicked tattoos I did find a few easter eggs oh yes pray to hell Elphaba aye

• Speaker #1

  I looked up this YouTube video of this proper theatre gal and she was so excited to tell everyone. Now, I only took a few because they got a bit too deep for me. At the start, there's a reflection. They have Elphaba's black witch's hat by like a clock. And then there is murky kind of water. It's one of the opening bits. The reflection of the hat in that water puddle mimics a tornado. Easter egg number one. Ooh, Dorothy,

• Speaker #0

  watch out.

• Speaker #1

  Number two. I only have three the crystal shoes that she gives to her little sister the crystal shoes turn into ruby shoes in Wizard of Oz MGM Studios changed the colour of those silver shoes to red so that they owned the copyright for ruby slippers whoa and then the heel is designed to look like a tornado it's like a spiralling thing oh so do the shoe the shoe Nessa's shoes the one that she wears on like the first day of university and then the heel

• Speaker #0

  They change her out.

• Speaker #1

  In the story. But we haven't seen it yet. But then, you know, at one point they do, she does click the red ruby slippers when she's singing popular.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, yes, I saw that. Yeah, that was very good.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, this Easter egg's actually quite complex, even for me to read.

• Speaker #0

  Wow, the theatre kids are going 90.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I know. I was trying to, like, figure out what she was saying. And then, you know, the big, the rotating bookshelf thing. Yes. That's done so the shape of it is a circle, which is an O. And then when the stairs are rotating, At certain points, it forms a Z. So Oz.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, clever Z piece.

• Speaker #1

  I also find out who the little sister turns into.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, who?

• Speaker #1

  Wicked Witch of the East.

• Speaker #0

  Oh.

• Speaker #1

  And that's who.

• Speaker #0

  Nessa.

• Speaker #1

  That's who Dorothy's house lands on. Because in the movie, Ness is wearing loads of stripy socks.

• Speaker #0

  Gosh. And I also thought like the, you know, the way the animals are like losing their voices. And I was like, nobody needs to teach them how to speak. Oh, you know, when you're a kid watching that, you're like, that must be why animals don't talk. You know, there's like little small things.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. The goat really got me.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, God, when his glass is cut. Oh,

• Speaker #1

  stop. And his little hooves.

• Speaker #0

  And when Glinda's like, it's Galinda. And it's like, he obviously can't say that.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, really cute character. Who plays him? I, like, recognised his voice.

• Speaker #0

  Ooh, Peter Dinklage. Oh, yeah. The guy from Game of Thrones.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, that's not who I thought it was. What? He plays a very good goat.

• Speaker #0

  Very endearing.

• Speaker #1

  Also, his, like, goat lair I loved.

• Speaker #0

  Yes,

• Speaker #1

  great. All the little nooks and crannies and tea and little spouts. I loved that.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, he's a great crib.

• Speaker #1

  The only thing I read was, like, some things could be a bit, like, tightened up. Like, two hours and 40 minutes. It's a long time.

• Speaker #0

  It is long. But if you love Wicked, that's like not enough. Do you know? Oh,

• Speaker #1

  of course.

• Speaker #0

  Like, I always measure things against Titanic. And that's three hours and 12 minutes, I think. Or three hours and 15 minutes. Yeah. It's basically two movies in one.

• Speaker #1

  That is so James Cameron.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So, like, learn how to edit, man. But obviously, I love Titanic, so that's fine. So, it is a bit shorter. It is still really long, like two hours and 40 minutes plus ads.

• Speaker #1

  And then just to pay homage before we move on to Gladiator part two. Defying Gravity at that end, I have been listening to it all week. Oh. And I was having some difficult situations and personal problems. And when I put Defying Gravity into my ears, I think I put it on when I was flying back on Sunday evening. Oh,

• Speaker #0

  nice.

• Speaker #1

  From that wedding. I played it over. And over and over and over on the plane. That last third part is so explosive. It's like it was it's very emotional.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Blows the lid off the cinema.

• Speaker #1

  And those who ground me. Like it's just so good. And I was like, yeah, like it's really like, fuck you, isn't it?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Rousing. And you can see why people are really talking about like defying gravity and holding space. Because it's like it's work. Because. I'd seen obviously all those memes beforehand. And then actually when you see the song performed live, you're like.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, I've been listening to it.

• Speaker #0

  And the broom work.

• Speaker #1

  That broom work. Fantastic. And also just her athleticism on the broom.

• Speaker #0

  Great broom choreography.

• Speaker #1

  You know, the broom, she's riding the broom. The broom isn't controlling her.

• Speaker #0

  No way.

• Speaker #1

  And you almost get a bit of vertigo when you're watching her on that broom bit at the end.

• Speaker #0

  You do. Imagine seeing that in IMAX.

• Speaker #1

  Oh yeah. Someone told me they actually did that. Anyway, all in all, what are you going to give it out of 10?

• Speaker #0

  Oh, 10.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  I would too. 10 witches hat out of 10 witches.

• Speaker #1

  Oh my God, a 10 or the wand.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, the little star.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, you would give wands and I would give hats.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, of course. Sorry, 10 Glinda wands.

• Speaker #1

  And I'll give 10 Elphaba hats. Gladiator 2, Gazza, I feel like this is really...

• Speaker #0

  My time to shine. Speaking of high camp, we've got Gladiator 2.

• Speaker #1

  Speaking of theatre.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I saw it on Saturday night.

• Speaker #1

  I saw it two weeks ago. I didn't read reviews. I had heard it wasn't getting great reviews. Also, caveat, I haven't seen the first one.

• Speaker #0

  This is just absurd. But

• Speaker #1

  I actually think it gives good... comparison, you know, for the listeners.

• Speaker #0

  You have a good objective.

• Speaker #1

  I'm a novice and you are a...

• Speaker #0

  Gladiator. I'm a Roman.

• Speaker #1

  What do you say if you're like in the theatre for ages?

• Speaker #0

  Thespian.

• Speaker #1

  A thespian. And you are a thespian. Take it away, Gazza.

• Speaker #0

  I don't know if you need much of a backstory because it's so similar to the first one. Either Russell Crowe or Paul Meskell described it as... an amazing opening sequence of fighting. Loads of little fights that build up to a big fight, the end. And that's kind of the main plot points of this film. Basically, it leaves off that it's kind of like 16 years later and Paul Meskell is living in Africa Nova, which is an amazing name, and he's married and then the Romans are coming to invade. Sorry, we've got a special correspondent with us on the show, Rory the historian.

• Speaker #1

  Oh my God, absolute. Ten spears for Rory the historian. Yeah. This guy, whoa.

• Speaker #0

  So I'll be peppering the episode with his detailed and insightful ancient Roman knowledge.

• Speaker #1

  Like the Roman Empire is his Roman Empire.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, yes.

• Speaker #1

  I'd love to be this knowledgeable about something like that. I think it's really impressive.

• Speaker #0

  Like every time, like if you're in a pub and you're just like, tell me who's your favourite emperor.

• Speaker #1

  Tell me who your favourite emperor is.

• Speaker #0

  Tell me your favourite emperor. And he was like, I'll give you my top five. I'm like, I'll go get a Guinness, hang on, I'll be back. But he did mention like, there's no point comparing it to the first because the first is kind of like quite a standalone thing. It's unfair to compare the second to the first. But it does mirror a lot of the same plot points. And I think that's what's annoyed people. But basically, Paul Meskell is like, he's a scorned Roman hating man turned slave turned gladiator. And he bottles up this rage against the Romans to seek revenge. And he sets his sights on Pedro Pascal, kind of finds his mom along the way. And then it all kind of unravels, as most Roman films do, in a lot of death, beheadings and sharks.

• Speaker #1

  Very graphic. Very graphic.

• Speaker #0

  What did you think of our sweet Paul?

• Speaker #1

  Excellent. I was just Googling his, what the accent was.

• Speaker #0

  Interesting note, they all... All the actors brought their own accents and their own veneers.

• Speaker #1

  What do you mean?

• Speaker #0

  The white teeth. Everybody had like blinding white teeth. Some people had like rubbed a bit of dirt on them. But it was like, you guys, this is a very smelly town. You shouldn't have a Hollywood smile.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, someone's like, I didn't think it would smell that bad.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. Anyway, sorry, go on.

• Speaker #1

  I thought he was excellent. The accent I looked up. and the kind of English accent he did apparently is the one that they would portray in theatre. So, 10 out of 10.

• Speaker #0

  And he kind of talked out the side of his mouth in anger.

• Speaker #1

  The costume on him was beautiful. That breastplate he wore.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, the leather work.

• Speaker #1

  The leather, you know, the like pleated leather skirt.

• Speaker #0

  And then he spun around and it like moved.

• Speaker #1

  It moved. It was very like Alexander McQueen.

• Speaker #0

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  Circa early 2000s or even like a Balenciaga.

• Speaker #0

  It was high fashion.

• Speaker #1

  It was. Like I would wear that skirt. Do you know what I mean? And then there was like an Isabel Marant. She does a lot of kind of canvas-y stuff. The boots they were wearing, which actually were just like sacks, like tied up around their legs. All that, like if you're in Greece for the summer, like on a week away, like just there was some really high fashion moments. even Denzel Denzel Oh adorned with jewels He was wearing some kind of like Versace numbers There was a lot of high fashion moments Pedro Pascal I looked up about Denzel because I was looking up about the accents and someone was he was just like I wasn't going to do a bad African accent what would that even sound like and then someone was just like he's Denzel he's not going to do another accent I do think when you juxtapose someone like Denzel Washington next to Paul Maskell, you see like how great Paul Maskell is at acting? I know that sounds terrible because he's just so American.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, he is. I though thought that, so Paul had such a great rage and I think he like really was able to like portray that, but it's really hard not to compare him to Russell Crowe. And I think sometimes where, and I don't think this is Paul's fault, but like... Say in the first Gladiator, Russell Crowe, Maximus Desimus Meridius had amazing like speeches. And then you're like husband to a murdered wife, father to a murdered child. I will have my vengeance on this knife in the next. Like unreal. With Paul, his speeches felt a touch like high school football quarterback. It just and it's not Paul's fault. He's a slut. boy turned slave turned gladiator he's not a general he's not used to making these big great speeches but i thought he sorry he was brilliant and to seeing him against um denzel i thought denzel was a real scene stealer like i thought like it was very hard to over to eclipse denzel like he's loving life living at large high camp there's loads of oscar buzz around uh denzel now for that yeah i just felt like

• Speaker #1

  He plays a very good villain, but I just felt like when he was walking around in those gowns, I was like, that gown is wearing you. Whereas Paul wore the skort.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, OK, from a fashion point of view, I totally agree.

• Speaker #1

  But as a character, I just feel like when you put someone who's like raw, like Paul Meskell, who's like, yeah, kind of haunting in his eyes. When you see him next to Denzel Washington, who he's kind of similar in everything, isn't he? And I really like him, but he is just quite similar character wise. Like the way he speaks and everything. It doesn't really change.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, that's interesting. I couldn't have fancied him more, though. Oh, my God. He is aged.

• Speaker #1

  Who, Denzel Washington?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, well, both of them. But Denzel was a real surprise.

• Speaker #1

  Thirsty work.

• Speaker #0

  Real gorgeous, gorgeous man. Also,

• Speaker #1

  so is Pedro Pascal.

• Speaker #0

  Oh, yeah.

• Speaker #1

  The two, are they the emperors? The pair of brothers.

• Speaker #0

  Sorry, we need to discuss.

• Speaker #1

  I need to talk about them for ages.

• Speaker #0

  They were based on... Ridley Scott said that they were based on Beavis and Butt-head.

• Speaker #1

  But that I totally get. Like the two of them just looking up there. Such clowns.

• Speaker #0

  Such clowns. And I love their makeup, first of all. Panda shadow with a white face.

• Speaker #1

  So like almost geisha.

• Speaker #0

  Such geisha gals. One thing I wish happened was that you saw a bit less fighting and a bit more. Take me to the vomitorium. I want to see the debauchery. I want to see an orgy. I want to see. Like it could have gone in way more into that lavish lifestyle of the emperors. I felt like we didn't see enough of them. And like they played it so well of these like completely bored, oversaturated, too spoiled, rotten little emperors. And they were brilliant. And I just wish we saw more of them. They were amazing.

• Speaker #1

  Their eyes.

• Speaker #0

  These big black inky eyes.

• Speaker #1

  And they were like just obviously so full of like food and... You know, nothing to do.

• Speaker #0

  It's just bored and like too much power. And I love how, is it Calacara? He had like syphilis and it was like affecting his brain. It's like, they lightly point to it, but like you could totally see like fan fiction happening or like a spinoff movie where there's less fighting and more gluttony.

• Speaker #1

  I would fully watch Day in the Life of

• Speaker #0

  Caracalla. Yeah.

• Speaker #1

  Getting up, eating too much breakfast, vomitorium.

• Speaker #0

  Yes.

• Speaker #1

  Going out. Does he get involved in the orgy? I don't know. Then watching one. Defo. Getting all like lathered up in butter, applying his guy liner, like all that stuff. Yeah. I didn't hear, I don't think I heard that, is it syphilis? Someone only told me that after. So I was like, what was going on with your man?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. What happened to his brain?

• Speaker #1

  He played that very well.

• Speaker #0

  Like an ancient version.

• Speaker #1

  He played it really well.

• Speaker #0

  He did. And the way he dies.

• Speaker #1

  That, I looked away. It's too much.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I know. Once I saw what was happening, I had to turn away.

• Speaker #1

  My mum was like, oh, and I was like, oh, you couldn't watch it.

• Speaker #0

  No, no, no, no. Save your mum. And our first clip from Rory the Historian is a huge big backstory into the two emperors and what actually happened in the timelines and stuff. Like, wait till you hear this. Oh, I'm so excited.

• Speaker #2

  The timeline is obviously all over the place. Geta and Caracalla are part of the Severan dynasty, which happened a good bit after Marcus Aurelius'death. Certainly not like 16 years and these two lads showed up. There was Septimus Severus, who must have ruled for at least 20, 30 years. And then these two came afterwards as well. But the interesting thing about the Severan dynasty is that it was the first Roman dynasty to be from North Africa. Septimus Severus was from North Africa and his wife, Julia Domna, was from Syria. So they were people of color, which I thought was interesting in the film that they didn't decide to go with. people of color in those roles. I'm just kind of wondering why. Or are white, blonde, blue-eyed emperors just much more evil? Denzel Washington's character, Macrinus, I think he was the first Praetorian guard to become emperor by overthrowing Caracalla. So the Severan dynasty, Septimius Severus was one of the first big emperors to gain control by the army. He was a general and his troops absolutely adored him. And he basically took Rome. sort of by force and his whole thing was you know pay the army well look after them he was all about stability but then in a strange move he made geta and caracalla that joined emperors which is a recipe for disaster even if they got on but they famously hated each other caracalla famously killed geta in front of his mother julia domna which is pretty mental julia domino is regarded as a sort of the perfect roman woman And then Caracalla ruled for about 10 years, I think, or so. And then he was overthrown by Macrinus. But Caracalla was really hated. And even if you see the bust of his statue, he's a real ugly guy. with like big mutton chop sideburns and stuff. He's just generally regarded as a brute and a very cruel and evil man.

• Speaker #0

  Isn't that so interesting? Oh my God,

• Speaker #1

  Rory is such a historian.

• Speaker #0

  I know, Rory the historian, coming to you live. So the original director's cut from Ridley Scott was four hours long.

• Speaker #1

  Was he being serious or was he like, I need to take it down?

• Speaker #0

  No, yeah. So they had to get it down to two hours 20. So they cut the shit out of it, right? They've cut a whole actress. So this... Egyptian-Palestinian actress called May Kalamawi. So nobody knows what she played. She either played, the guesses are it's Denzel's daughter or another love interest for Paul Meskel. And she was totally cut. Leading role, Hollywood Reporter, was chatting to the producer, Douglas Wick. And they were like, we need to keep the movie short. Like it couldn't be long. We have to keep it to 220. So we have to ask ourselves, like what's essential? What's essential? Also in running tandem with this is the actress, May, she made a lot of comments about the Palestinian-Israeli war that's going on. So there was rumours, the fans were all going nuts, being like she'd made some, because obviously she's Palestinian, so maybe that was why she was cut. But it obviously didn't affect the main story that badly. But there was also, Denzel Washington said in an interview, that he had a gay kiss with somebody and that was cut.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, sorry, I heard this.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, and whoever it was, he was murdered. So it must have been one of the twins. Because he was like, oh, I killed him five minutes later. So maybe it wasn't essential.

• Speaker #1

  Oh my God, I would watch that.

• Speaker #0

  But in that cutting, you know the way we were talking about it, Gladiator, the reviews are in, it's a pulsating pace. I think the pace was almost a little too pulsating. I felt it was kind of a G-force. It moved along so fast. If you went to the bog and came back, you might be like, what? There was no spoon feeding. And you really had to be paying attention to the film. And I found that a ferocious pace. Was actually like, oh my God. So maybe because they cut so many scenes, they actually cut a lot of the plot.

• Speaker #1

  It was too pulsating.

• Speaker #0

  It was too, it was over pulsating. So I don't know. I'm trying to think,

• Speaker #1

  I like a fast pace. I don't think, I think I liked it. Because there's nothing worse in those period pieces when there's like, sorry, when the battle scenes go on too long, I'm like, here,

• Speaker #0

  we get the picture. Once you see one beheading, you've seen them all.

• Speaker #1

  Also just suggest a killing.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, it was very like gruesome. Few other plot holes. One, what we said, I stopped the trailer. The trailer gave way too much. But it was pitched as this mystery that Paul Mesca like didn't know who his father was. But in the first film, it's kind of set out that it's like Lucius, the little boy in the first film, is very much the illegitimate son. You're watching him figure it out, but like you know it. But then you never really see this like epiphany moment. They didn't really explain or go over that. And then they fully like in that... closing up with the story. It was like, well, we don't get any back. It took us ages to get the backstory of like what happened when he grew up. Like he just ended up in Africa. And then it's like, but you didn't explain the last like 16 years or where was he until the mum explained.

• Speaker #1

  That's what I thought was irresponsible. Where did she send him on the horse? Where was he going?

• Speaker #0

  But then why didn't she go looking for him a bit more or send him with like a guardian?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that's what I didn't understand.

• Speaker #0

  I thought that was just fast forwarded. That was where it got over pulsated because it was like. Do you just think your son is dead? What do you think happened to your son? Did you not send anyone out to look for him? When she sees him in the Coliseum, she's like, hey, hey, I think I know that guy. It just, it didn't connect the dots.

• Speaker #1

  She was kind of irresponsible. Like she didn't really follow up.

• Speaker #0

  No, it is kind of like life and death in those communities. But that part was like not really explained. It just... I needed a bit more spoon feeding or cut a battle scene and then give us a bit more of the like emotional side. That's what I think the first one did quite well. We have another epiphany here moment from Rory.

• Speaker #2

  I thought coming towards the end I was like this movie is making absolutely no sense whatsoever. And I thought they kind of didn't know how to end it when they meet on the battlefield. And Macrinus has been this Game of Thrones like ascendancy. And then he just sees Paul Neskull's character and he just gets off the horse. There's no way he would have done that. He would have been like, no, let everybody die for me so that I can be emperor. I felt like they just didn't know how to end it.

• Speaker #0

  And I totally agree with that because the whole movie, Denzel is like this total puppet master. Why would he get into a combat with the biggest gladiator in the Roman Empire? Like you would obviously know you're going to die. I found that bit a bit of a, he should have just sat back and seized power.

• Speaker #1

  Well, because at one point he almost looks like he's going to win. Like that bit in the water is really scary.

• Speaker #0

  He was really actually quite strong, but then his dad's breastplate saved him.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, when he's hitting him. Oh, he's so aggressive. Yeah,

• Speaker #0

  that's good. Yeah, both of them are in real, real, real rage. Oh, Rory's also going to explain. So obviously now next big plot hole is everyone's gone 90 over the sharks.

• Speaker #1

  Everyone's gone insane about the sharks.

• Speaker #0

  They have, they have.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, no, there's no way sharks were in the Coliseum. I think there's a possibility that they could have filled. other amphitheaters around the Roman Empire with water. And they did used to recreate like battles and stuff. When the games were run, it was always run by an individual trying to promote themselves. So they would always be trying to be like, you know, the next big thing and try and come up with creative ideas. But I doubt there was definitely no sharks. And I doubt they filled the Coliseum with water. I just don't really know how they would have done that. There was like big animal trainers. Hannibal famously crossed. the Alps with elephants in, I think about 100 BC, you know, so there was like big animals being trained. But it's unlikely that there was like a gladiator who was also able to train rhinos so that he could ride on them. And if there was that, there probably wasn't, there wouldn't have been very many of them. It would have been a very, two niche, two very niche sets of skills.

• Speaker #0

  It wasn't like, you know, they went to gladiator camp and then over there is where you train some rhinos. Over there is where you train some giraffes. There's the baboon corner over there for the baboon gladiators.

• Speaker #1

  So Ridley Scott, he's 87.

• Speaker #2

  I know he's not.

• Speaker #1

  He's very like fiery in interviews. He does a bit of a Logan Roy from Succession, shall we say. Like someone said to him about this other film he did, like The Last Jewel. They said like, that's your most realistic film to date. But it was like a Norwegian guy. So maybe like it got lost in translation. Ridley Scott goes, fuck you. Go fuck yourself, fuck you. And took off his face mask to say it. Ridley Scott was questioned about the historical accuracy about the sharks. And he goes, that was like a pretty risky choice in terms of accuracy. And Ridley Scott goes, you're dead wrong. The Coliseum did flood with water and there were sea battles. Dude, if you can build a Coliseum, you can flood it with fucking water. Are you joking? And get a couple of sharks in and out from the sea? Are you kidding? Of course they can.

• Speaker #2

  Oh my God, what a fiery, sprocy lady.

• Speaker #1

  Individual, she is living her truth.

• Speaker #2

  Because she still does like press junkets and stuff.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, 87, like who gives a fuck? Yeah, the Sharks kind of lose, but I get they need to add a bit of like Hollywood pizzazz. Like they've got Marvel films to compete with.

• Speaker #2

  Like I thought even the water was amazing. I was like, wow.

• Speaker #1

  I think they did used to, I don't know if they did it with, as Rory says, like I don't think they did it with the actual Coliseum, but they did it with other arenas. Because speaking of like what Wicca did with their set pieces, they built a real life Coliseum that was filled with crowds. It was a scale one to one, like life size.

• Speaker #2

  Point of information. I actually have the filming location. Oh,

• Speaker #1

  go for it.

• Speaker #2

  The Coliseum was reconstructed in Fort Ricassoli in Calcare, Malta. The fort's unique architecture drew Ridley Scott's attention when he was filming Gladiator. The primary filming location was a city south of Morocco, high Atlas Mountains. Morocco stood in for the Roman-held North African kingdom of Numidia. And the field battle scene was filmed at Firedown Farm near Brighton on the edge of the South Downs.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, that's... Remember he went for retakes. And, sorry, a light backstory on Paul Mesca, I forgot to mention, was that he was cast, he did an audition, he was cast because of his portrayal in Normal People. Because the gladiator character, Lucius, didn't have much script and it was a lot of, like, steamy eyes and anger. So that was how he got it. Oh,

• Speaker #2

  wow. Can you imagine how fired you'd feel if someone was just like, I saw you in this, so I want you to give you this role.

• Speaker #1

  But also with Paul. So obviously it's passing of the baton from Russell Crowe to Paul Meskell. But Russell was not a happy bunny. We all know he has a bit of a...

• Speaker #2

  Temper.

• Speaker #1

  Russell really wanted to be included in the sequel and he was trying over and over again. But everyone was like, you died, like you can't.

• Speaker #2

  Unless it's like in a dream.

• Speaker #1

  We can't redo... your story. So Russell Crowe's Australian, he asked his fellow Aussie mate, Nick Cave, you know, Nick Cave and the Bad Seats, to write a backstory. So Nick Cave went like hyper-Grecian, old Grecian myth and wrote a wild take that resurrected Maximus as an immortal warrior who fought on behalf of the Roman gods. It was like... no you're not going to kind of buy in from that I think it's easy to just be like here's your illegitimate son oh my god that's really awkward yeah and it was all going to be about him making his way back from the afterlife it sounded way too cosmic so yeah because there was rumours that there was like a bit of a feud between Russell and Paul but basically I just don't think Russell gave him much of advice or whatever I think he was just so pissed off have they met? there was some comment Paul had made being like have you heard from Russell and he was like no yeah that's what I thought I heard something like that And then final bits from our historian, Roy the historian, speaking of all the debauchery and like local Roman culture, he had a great point on this.

• Speaker #0

  One of the things I remembered that I found sort of hilarious about it was the cafe culture that was going on. Like I think at one point, there's some guy like reading a newspaper, which is just hilarious. And like having brunch, you know, with avocado and toast or something outside the Coliseum. Like that, like it's the Aviva. Because that obviously didn't exist. There was no way. Like, people weren't reading newspapers. There was no newspapers. The printing press doesn't get invented for another thousand odd years.

• Speaker #2

  3FE.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, it's like 3MV outside the Coliseum. So stunning point. Cafe culture I don't think existed in this time.

• Speaker #2

  It should have. I have a quote from Forbes.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, go for it.

• Speaker #2

  Which I just like, imagine, imagine reading this about something you're in. Gladiator 2, a dreadful, pointless sequel that should never have seen the light of day.

• Speaker #1

  Oh God.

• Speaker #2

  And then they go, they go on to say. like the most famous line is it is, are you not entertained? Like he's screaming it at the crowd. And they were like, and the answer is no.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, yeah, that's from the first film. Yeah. There's no like take home quotes,

• Speaker #2

  really. I didn't know are you not entertained was from it.

• Speaker #1

  Are you not entertained? Yeah, no, there's not. I think it's definitely worth like it's good cinema film. It really makes you appreciate how strong Russell Crowe is in that first film because. Rory did make a point to me that like if it was Brad Pitt or Will Smith playing Russell Crowe, it would be the cringiest thing ever. But it just shows you how well they cast Russell Crowe in the first film, because are you not entertained if Will Smith or Brad Pitt said that it would just.

• Speaker #2

  Yeah, Will Smith. No,

• Speaker #1

  Russell Crowe was better able to carry that. And people take it seriously and think that it's good.

• Speaker #2

  Do you think Will Smith is going to make a comeback soon?

• Speaker #1

  I don't know. I think we know too much about his private life. to take him seriously.

• Speaker #2

  How do you get out of that sticky situation?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I just think to like keep my wife's name out your fucking mouth. I think that'll take a while to The curtain has dropped. Yeah. He didn't do what Meryl Streep said you should do is like keep your private and Leonardo DiCaprio like keep your private life private so then people believe you in roles. It's harder when people know too much about you. Yeah,

• Speaker #2

  you just completely oh, that was so good.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And then finally Variety magazine are doing actor on actor and who was interviewing who?

• Speaker #2

  I think I know it. Paul. And Ariana.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, that'd be great.

• Speaker #2

  That's coming out on the 10th, I think. 10th of December. It'll be out today.

• Speaker #1

  And Paul's doing SNL this weekend, so it'll have come out. But the promo videos are very funny. He's really, really good. I saw that. He's great. Anyway, that wraps up our Glickid special. We hope you enjoyed it. Tell us what you think. You can get us on Instagram at Soph underscore Lions or at Clasicabana. Tell us what you thought. Do you use your greaves? Do you use your tester opinions?

• Speaker #2

  Or if you've any more Easter eggs, I could understand for Wicket.

• Speaker #1

  Please. I don't think Gladiator had any Easter eggs. I think it was just beheadings.

• Speaker #2

  No, I don't think that's Ridley Scott's vibe.

• Speaker #1

  He just tells you to fuck off. Fuck off. All right, you hoglets, fuck off. Go fuck yourself and fuck off. I'd love to do that.

• Speaker #2

  That was like Father Jack there.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. No, I was going for Logan Roy, damn it. All right, ta-ra. I mean, good tidings. Happy Christmas, silly season week. Christmas cheer for ours to yours.

• Speaker #2

  You're going to be popular.

• Speaker #1

  Popular. We're going to be popular.