Transcription

• Speaker #0

  you know that scaling up piece particularly globally is also about being able to understand how to have a challenging conversation how to step into that leader communication role and manage that skill set

• Speaker #1

  Hello everyone and welcome to International Corner, the podcast that helps you open and thrive in foreign markets. This is Steeve here, your host speaking, and today I am pleased to welcome Victoria Reynoldson, communication coach and cultural intelligence trainer. She's the CEO and founder of CultureCoupa. She helps professionals to elevate and amplify their communication so they can speak with clarity and confidence. And she shares with us some tips on how to build your leadership communication skills to scale globally. Hi, Victoria. Thank you so much for joining into the International Corner podcast. How are you doing today?

• Speaker #0

  I'm doing super well. And thank you so much for inviting me. It's really great to join you.

• Speaker #1

  Of course, that's my pleasure. And I'm really excited to talk about leadership and communication skills with you today. But perhaps. Before diving into the matter, can we have an intro of yourself, maybe for the audience, a little bit about your background and your current business activity?

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. Well, let me just start with what I do today. So I'm a communication coach and cultural intelligence trainer. I'm based in London, the UK. And my real passion and mission is to work with global professionals all around the world, helping them to elevate and amplify their communication. And that is for really enhancing visibility, getting out there, enhancing your reputation, and ultimately about growing the audience, growing the business that you're in. And I do that literally with people all over the world. I do it virtually, I do it in person, and I have a lot of fun with it as well. I really enjoy this work. But this is actually my second career. So I have been doing this for the last nine years. And before this, I started life in global brand marketing. I worked for some really large organizations and companies in the food industry, in FMCG. And that was when at that time when I really started to notice some of the communication and cultural dynamics that went on in meetings, in presentations. And that's what really got me curious about this whole world.

• Speaker #1

  Fantastic. I mean, I think that's also what's going to be very interesting today. It's to leverage all that background you have to understand a little bit better how to leverage communication as a global leader. Let me also introduce that concept I have at the beginning of every episode, which is the icebreaker. Basically, just imagine you have a dice. There are six faces, right? So just pick a number and I will read you a question.

• Speaker #0

  Okay, let's go for it. I will go for number five.

• Speaker #1

  Number five. All right. What's one of your favorite books and why?

• Speaker #0

  Oh, that's a really great question. Well, I'm a bit of a, I do love my business books. And I have to say, I absolutely adored, it was a couple of years ago that I read Atomic Habits by James Clear. And although some of the principles are really simple, they're just so easy to forget in the everyday. And I think what those habits are about are not only being efficient and being effective, it's about your mindset. It's about allowing yourself the time and space to do the important things. And, you know, I'm sure you recognize this as well. We are all so busy. We're all sort of rushing around from one thing to another. So those principles from that book that I read, I try and apply these in my world. And for me, it is very much about how do I show up at my best and make the most of my time. in a choiceful way, really feeling like that I get to choose how I do things rather than things are happening to me.

• Speaker #1

  That's very brilliant. And it's actually the first time I hear about it, you know, so make me want to read it. Yes, definitely.

• Speaker #0

  I will send you a link so you can see it. Yeah, absolutely. Enjoy it.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And perhaps also make it, you know, in the in the in the comment section, because I think it's pretty, pretty relevant, you know, to the to the kind of challenges that we can face today.

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. Great question.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you very much. Talking back about, I would say, today's topic, communication. As you know, most of the audience right now is working on an international context, global expansion. So why do you think, or what do you believe that communication skills are worth mastering as a global leader, as we want to go internationally and scale the business in many countries?

• Speaker #0

  So I'm, you know, from the conversations we've had previously, I'm assuming the people who are listening have fantastic ideas. They are people who are creative with brilliant ideas that they want to get out in the world. But it doesn't really matter how good your idea is. It can be the best idea in the world. But if you can't communicate it, it's going nowhere. And this is fundamentally what it's about. You know, the people listening, the listeners, they will have these ideas. But for you to be successful, for you to scale your idea globally, you need to understand how you position that idea, what you're going to say about it, what is going to be the most compelling way for it to connect with the people who are going to be your customers. And then you need to amplify it. You need to be projecting it out into the world. And communication is all about this. How do you connect with people who could be interested, your prospects? How do you connect with your clients and your customers? And communication is at the heart of all of this. what we're saying, how we're saying, how we're really thinking about the best way to communicate our businesses.

• Speaker #1

  I would like to come back to one of the things you mentioned, saying that, because I do agree with you, it has to be compelling, right? The way about like your ideas. Could you give us some ideas, some examples perhaps to illustrate this?

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. So I think that often people think about how do I sell this? How do I sell my idea? How do I sell my business? How do I even sell myself if you're part of that personal branding as well? But the reality is we have to not start with ourselves. We have to start with the other person. We have to really think about what is it that is important to them? What is it they are coming to listen to what we've got to say? And that doesn't matter whether you are pitching. whether you're presenting to an ongoing customer, whether you are networking, or whether you are, I don't know, doing a talk or doing a podcast interview, whatever the format of the, or channel of the communication is, you need to really carefully think about not only what you're wanting to put out into the world, but how is it going to land with that person? What is the best way for them to receive it? So I always, you know, one of my key things is, it's not about... you it's about them so you've got to really think about what what's going to be the best way for them to know what you need to tell them what action is it you want for them to take people often kind of focus on this the no and the do part but ultimately what you want them to feel when you're communicating with them whatever that context is from the many ones i've just mentioned you know what you want them to take away from that in terms of the energy of your communication and you can put that in then

• Speaker #1

  in the input from the beginning to really have the intention of connecting in that way all right trying to put this into context for the audience let's take an example in which trying to launch a new market right so i'm guessing part of what we do around communication go through marketing kind of activities so the way you will talk about your product talk about your solution advertise it through social media or through I don't know like online campaigns etc you know like emailing campaigns so are you also talking about like these kind of activities as well?

• Speaker #0

  It absolutely can be and one of the aspects we haven't talked about is the cultural angle on that so thinking about expanding into new markets markets perhaps where you haven't been present so far you need to really think about this cultural angle which also impacts the marketing piece so that can be for example really understanding where you need to adapt the approach the marketing communication the way you talk about the product or the service that you're offering how you sell it in to your customers you know there may be real kind of nuances that you need to be aware of before you turn up in the room or turn up in that market and there is a real you know very concrete examples of where it goes right and when it goes horribly wrong and where people just have misunderstood or taken a very macro global market approach rather than really thinking okay what does this specific market need how do we really connect with customers in this market

• Speaker #1

  Hmm. Okay. Got it. As you, as you mentioned, there are like different ways, I would say, to think about the message and how compelling we want to, to go about it. There are like different platforms and also we mentioned marketing, but it can also just be in the way you address people like of those different markets. But then do you actually have examples from, I don't know, the company or like people you are supporting, you know, where like sometimes it can go wrong, right? Like if you try to do a message, that's not, I would say localized enough.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah. So I think, you know, there are many different examples, but I think if I talk about some of the cultural dynamics, so I don't know, in terms of your listeners, maybe some of them are based in Europe and very used to working across Europe. But, you know, if I think about also my time working with the US market or working with India or the Far East, you know, there are very different dynamics in the way that people even do meetings and will, you know, set up their initial conversations. So I think about, you know, when I've been working in with Indian clients and in my career in the past, you know, there's a very different attitude towards decision making. And you have to really understand that organizations are often quite hierarchical. There are many different layers. You have to really make sure that you are talking to the right person at the right level. And in fact, you need to make sure you have bringing the right team into the room so that the hierarchy matches the hierarchy that is being met in the customer. that's really important to understand that matters because if you can't sort of understand it or think well I come from a very egalitarian culture you know why do I need to bother about this actually it'll be really hard to influence it'll be really hard to get to yes and that decision making and there are lots of examples when people haven't understood that and it's gone wrong and that can end up in very lengthy conversations which really go nowhere where there is no end point. I've worked with many Japanese clients in the past. And one of the interesting kind of stories I tell from my sort of early business days when I was scaling my business was I remember having a really interesting conversation with an individual, a manager within a Japanese company. And he was very interested in the cultural intelligence training that I was doing. So I came as I normally would do, you know, I thought, well, I'll bring my proposal, I'll be very... You know, my style is very energetic, very enthusiastic. I like to be quite expressive in my style. And I was met with real kind of neutral reaction, which sort of surprised me. Normally, I can gauge if somebody is either, you know, very enthusiastic as well and meeting me where I'm at, or whether actually it's a no for now. But this person, I found it very difficult to read. And so, you know, I asked a direct question, you know, would you like to have this follow-up call? what are your thoughts about progressing with this? And the answer I got was, I need some time. And that was quite an interesting kind of reaction to me. It wasn't the one I was expecting. Now, what I realized over time and through my research and through my own learning and deep dive into these topics and areas, I realized, of course, that expressiveness, I needed to think about the dialing up. and dialing down of that. So I am very conscious, for example, when I am speaking, presenting, pitching, networking, if I'm sort of talking to people who come from more expressive cultures, say from South America, Southern Europe, I'm much more loud in my body language, in my expressiveness. But what I learned is that particularly when I was working with Japanese clients, I needed to almost imagine this volume dial and to turn it down, to almost sit on my hands and... remain more still. And it wasn't fundamentally changing who I was and the way I was showing up, but it was just taking it down a notch or two. I also recognize that that style of direct questioning, you know, are you ready to move forward was not appropriate. And so that indirect communication sometimes is important and relevant, particularly when this was in Japan, working with a Japanese individual and company, but working with some Asian cultures, you can't be that direct. You have to ask indirect questions or to allow space and time for reflection and for people to respond. You can't put that pressure on in the same way that you might do, for example, if you're working, as I know, in a UK business or working in a US-based business. So these are just some examples. And as you can imagine, when it goes right, it goes really well. You can really connect with people. But when it goes wrong, business is lost. I mean, that is the bottom line. That is the bottom line. Business is lost. and opportunities are wasted. And that's why I'm really passionate about this, because I can see the opportunities can happen, right? When you can provide.

• Speaker #1

  And as you mentioned, it's so important to adapt your communication style to the person in front of you. As you mentioned, there are some cultural aspects that are very important to be aware of and not so easy every time, I would say, which gets to the next question. As you mentioned, there are differences, right, in between the way we interact with people, just because first there are two different types of personalities, but then cultural aspects as well enter into it. How do I become, as a global leader, a very skilled communicator then?

• Speaker #0

  That's a really great question. So I think, you know, the way I see it, I think there are a number of different pillars that I think are really important. You know, the first one is clarity. I mean, even if you consider yourself a great speaker today, really good at talking about your business in a variety of different environments, you're very clear about how to market your business. Even so, there's always something you can do to sharpen up, to get the clarity, to understand what is the best way to land your messages. So clarity is a key pillar of this. I think the second one is confidence. Now, this is an interesting one because even if people listen to this and say, well, I consider myself quite a confident person, but you are also expanding into new markets. There are a lot of unknowns, a lot of perhaps what has worked in the past may not work so well in the future. And that takes a real focus on your mindset. So we talked about mindset right at the beginning. It takes a real focus on your absolute belief in yourself, in your... business in your brand and your products and service that you're selling and really no matter what happens even if it's a no even if the knockbacks are coming back and it doesn't seem like it's going to happen right now having that confidence to keep communicating and to keep that clarity and then another you know final pillar which I will talk about here today is about connection now I know from our conversations previously connection is really important to you as well And I think for me, this is ultimately what it's about. We're not broadcasting. We never should be broadcasting. No matter how big a brand, you know, you are, we should absolutely be having a conversation. And that's at the kind of marketing sales level all the way down to one-to-one conversations with our customers. So connection is really understanding that the way we communicate is more than just the words. It's kind of thinking about how we say things. aspects such as your voice your non-verbal communication your body language how do you indicate certain things through even the way that you shake somebody's hand or greet them whatever is appropriate for sure absolutely but the cult you know and included in that connection piece is the cultural part of this and you know that isn't just a okay go read a book you're done you understand how to do things because of course we need to avoid the stereotypes as well and saying well Everybody from the UK is like this or the US is, everybody from the US is like that. So again, we have to really connect with the humans that we're meeting and rethink about like what's going to work with this person, what's going to work with this group.

• Speaker #1

  You mentioned those three aspects, as you mentioned, clarity, confidence and connection as being very important to become a skilled communicator. I think one of the challenges is that when we speak about that, global expansion context, usually this would be within companies that have limited amount of time, limited amount of founding, right? Like to display training, I would say for this, despite, as you mentioned, this being very important, right? Therefore, in that context, as a leader, how can I improve on those aspects? Because for some people, it's going to be a little bit more natural maybe to find pieces around connection and stuff because it's part of their personalities, but... For some others, it's going to be a bit more complicated. Therefore, what can I do, right? Like at my level, if my company cannot provide like those like cultural training, etc. What can I do to help me be a better communicator?

• Speaker #0

  Absolutely. Well, listen, I can give you kind of two really key ideas here. The first one is it starts with some self-reflection. Like even if you don't have any budget, you don't have any kind of opportunity for training right now. just reflect on those three pillars I mentioned, clarity, confidence, and the connection piece, particularly with the cultural angle. And I want you to really just think, like, for the people who are listening, I want you to think, how would you rate yourself today? So if it's kind of like, you know, one, I suck at this, I'm really bad at this, and 10, I'm flying, I'm the world's experts in this, like, just try and have a bit of honesty, like, take 10 minutes. and have a bit of reflection time and just work out where you see yourself today. If you have any sort of feedback from the past, use that to inform that picture and just really understand which one is your priority area to focus on and think about, okay? So that might be you need to work across all of them. It might be there is just one you know is the one that is going to be challenging for you. Even if you're scoring yourself low, I want you to really think about what you do well today. So really, there must be something, at least one thing that you do well today in that area and capture that. Because I want people to recognize you're not starting from level zero. I'm pretty sure everybody here is starting from a base, even if they consider themselves like twos or threes or fours. And then what I want you to do is go and learn. And there are lots of free resources out there. I'm going to shamelessly plug my own podcast because it's a free resource for people to come and learn. But really, honestly, like I've got a podcast. It's called The Cultural Communication Confidence. And we're almost at 100 episodes. So that is like free, rich learning. You can go back. They're very simple, actionable, you know, 15, 20 minutes. episode so um yeah feel free to come and learn and um if anybody has any specific questions reach out and you know i'd love to know your questions perfect and what i really liked about what you gave is that it's virtually available to everyone right i mean with

• Speaker #1

  with like very few means even no means like you can go out there take some time listen to free resources that are available to you for me like that's great pieces of advice we you We covered a topic a lot about, I would say, external communication, so how you communicate toward the world. And I'm guessing as well, another piece of that is more internal, because as we grow globally, we also are hiring people that are coming from different countries, different cultural backgrounds. And it's also important as a global leader to be effective internally as well, so that people can follow your lead. Any tips on that as well, perhaps?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, absolutely. I think this is a... a massive one actually and actually it can be the real difference between scaling up going well and it faltering and like not really happening so what often happens in these situations people are gathering resources from different places around the world and they're often in places where you're not really getting that opportunity to meet up together that often it just isn't realistic and also you know the great advantage and opportunity is all the collaboration tools exist to make this super super easy whether it's like Slack or whatever it is, like, you know, Trello boards or, you know, messaging each other, it doesn't really matter what the channel is or what the platform is. We are so lucky in this era to be able to do this incredibly well. However, there is also a massive downside to this, which is the speed of communication, the quick kind of fire messages can also get a bit lost in translation. And I don't necessarily mean that. if you know second language for people but I mean literally culturally people don't necessarily quite understand the tone of voice behind quickfire messages they may not understand like urgency or they have a different view of urgency I really fascinatingly you know I'm doing some work with a company at the moment and that small company scaling but actually what's really interesting there is that there's sometimes that miscommunication that misunderstanding even within a small team even when the majority of the team are based in one location, because there is such a speed without really understanding how do we want to communicate. Now, speed is everything in the scale-up world. However, I would absolutely encourage people, again, take 20 minutes, half an hour over a quick coffee. Just understand what are the different channels you're communicating on, which ones do you want to use for standard communication, important in communication, and urgent communication. And really make sure that people are very clear about how to make it super clear to others what needs action right now. I think sometimes what happens is there's huge volumes of messages. Somebody's sending a voice message. Somebody's sending an email. Somebody's sending a message on the chat. And all the information is in loads of different places. And that's when it gets confusing. People get out of the loop and are a bit unsure about what's really going on. And I think that's really important for your audience who are listening to this.

• Speaker #1

  And what's your take on that? Should we, is it something to go with, I don't know, some kind of like written policy that should be in a shared notion or whatsoever page for everyone to go about? Should that be a message that's relayed by the managers themselves for each of the teams?

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, I mean, I think the way I often ask people to think about it is you're creating your communication charter or your ways of working. And. Although that might sound really rigid and really structured, it really does pay dividends to spend as i say it can be a quick 15 20 minute brainstorm and chat on a piece of paper but if everybody is clear how it works then you can speed up again i think the real problem happens is when there's a miscommunication everything slows down a message has to be repeated a meeting has to be had again because the person didn't get it or somebody's upset because they weren't included on the information so you know what i mean like it can it actually escalate into big big problems that massively slow down your pace of delivery and if you're kind of scaling and bringing in more people very quickly into the business you have to have that clarity of this is how we do things this is what really works smoothly and well this is how we flag issues this is how we flag i don't know a really urgent customer uh question and this is what is just fyi this is a channel for fyi's So everybody has that clarity and knows how to get on board quickly and communicate well together.

• Speaker #1

  And is that something that we should obviously mostly do during onboardings? But what are your recommendations? Is that something that we should refresh regularly as we go? And then if so, how often?

• Speaker #0

  I think it depends on how quickly a business is scaling. So if you're finding yourself, I don't know, you're sort of, I don't know the size of businesses that are listening, but maybe if you're five to ten people. you might and you're static at that for maybe six months it probably doesn't need looking at it probably for about a year but if you're suddenly doubling the size and doubling the size and you're very rapidly recruiting i think you do need to think about what was right when you were a smaller business or 20 30 people might be completely different from when you are a size of say 100 or 200 and again that needs a different way of understanding who's talking who's saying what and who's communicating so you're not over communicating and people are like just too much information and just ignore it or the risk is under communicating so people feel disconnected they feel not very happy because they're not part of the conversation and they feel like they're being deliberately left out but it might not be that it just might be oversight and not really being able to think about how best to communicate with everybody Absolutely. And do you see, I would say, across the different clients you've supported so far, do you see other mistakes or what type of other mistakes I would say regarding internal communication? Do you see companies do as they scale globally?

• Speaker #1

  I think it comes down to, some of it is about the internal challenges. Some of it's about the external, as we've kind of talked about. But it's, you know, also taking a step back from those very functional ways of communicating. thinking at the organizational level is everybody really clear and bought into the vision is it meaningful because i think you know founders start with a real passion for what they're trying to achieve and that's easy to sustain when you are maybe you know a smaller group of of an organization once you start scaling faster and perhaps moving up to the hundred or even beyond you know a couple of hundred like does everybody really get it like why it really matters or are they just there to do the job that's actually a real challenge how do you keep that passion live how do you keep the that you communicate that vision and communicate it in a way that people are living it they're not just kind of going yeah yeah that's on the piece of paper somewhere and likewise you know the values you know what's important at the beginning is easy to sustain when you're smaller making sure everybody knows those values and lives by them is another thing as you scale up so although what I'm talking about organizational level staff this is still part of your communication right like of course your employees or if you're the founder but the people in a startup a scale up you are representing the brands and the organization and the company so you have to be also projecting it every time you have an interaction internally or externally and

• Speaker #0

  in your opinion because 100% agree with you this is so important as you scale and the faster you scale as you mentioned the more you actually need to do that In your opinion, who should be owning this vision and values communication? Because at some point, the team grows so fast and it becomes so big that it can't be the CEO who always takes ownership of that. Should that be relayed by the country managers, etc.? So do you have some take on that?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, of course. I mean, I think it depends a little bit on the structures within the organization. But what I would say is, you know, there is that, you know, I'm sort of not that. expert in terms of how to scale successfully. But what I would say is, there is something that I have seen in that the small to medium enterprises that are scaling fast, which is the CEO struggles to let go, because it's their passion and idea that started all of this back in the day. And so, you know, if you have a couple of co founders, that is easier, perhaps you share that, that responsibility, that mission. to ensure everybody is brought in and really understands and is communicating this. I think if it's just a single person who is like the CEO and the founder, then it's really being very mindful, you know, really taking a step back and going, at what point am I bringing in a leadership team? At what point am I sharing that responsibility for how we project and communicate our company, our organization, our brand as a team? That is often the challenge that's going on. I think once you get a senior leadership team sort of established, whether we're talking about three people or you're talking about 10 people in a larger organization, you know, whatever the scale is, it gets easier because you can come together. You can challenge each other. You can point things out like this. Like we really need to get our people more engaged and connected back to our roots of why we're doing this so they can communicate this out again.

• Speaker #0

  Yeah, absolutely. It's, as you mentioned, I think it would depend anyway on the structure, but as managers and the leadership team, I think this is the best relay of the communication you can, you can actually get to make sure that it gets across the different teams, it gets across the different countries. And after it's about the routines you also put in place in, in how you get together as a team, even as you mentioned, you're scattered across different countries because that's, that also brings challenges. the togetherness, but also being mindful, I guess, of the local differences is hard to get, like the perfect balance.

• Speaker #1

  Absolutely. And just adding to that, you know, this is where I then would, you know, in this type of scenario, I'd be adding in my fourth pillar, which is challenging conversations. What comes at this point is often having to have tougher conversations. You're no longer a small, you know, friendly bunch having fun. Yes, that happens. There's role for fun. Of course there is. But things have to be operating at a really different level. And sometimes there is both tough feedback to give, but also to receive. Like sometimes you have to be challenged if you are part of the founder team, you know, that actually this isn't working anymore, we need to do things differently. And that can be really hard to sort of... receive feedback in this way to kind of go actually maybe I don't see it all maybe I do need to listen more so you know a key pillar of communication at this point is definitely the challenging conversations being receiving feedback managing conflict you know even in small startups conflict happens right and even between the founders like you can have I mean there is something I had somebody on my own podcast you know a couple of months ago talking about this you You know, the most common reason for startups to fail is that the founders all fall out and they just had enough of each other and they can't make it work. So, you know, that scaling up piece, particularly globally, is also about being able to understand how to have the challenging conversations, how to step into that leader communication role and manage that skillfully.

• Speaker #0

  That's brilliant. And just to recap on a little bit of the conversation, you mentioned those four pillars that are very important. You want to be skilled and become a global leader, especially with that communication. You mentioned four pillars, therefore clarity, confidence, connection. And as you mentioned, being able to have a difficult conversation, managing conflict, as you mentioned. And those, I think, were your four key points as a leader that I should understand if I really want to make it, I would say, as a global leader.

• Speaker #1

  Absolutely. Yeah. I think that is what is needed. And sometimes, you know, what I am doing with my own kind of clients is being the sounding board, being the confidential space, because it's hard. It's hard when you're the leader of that type of organization, and you're taking on a lot, and having to deal with a lot of that's going on at the same time in communication. So, you know, that is something that I think is really important. Again, you know, you don't have, you know, obviously, I'd love to help everybody out there. But, you know, if I can't help you then and you're looking for, you know, what kind of support can I have? You know, who else can support you outside your business? Who can give you either mentor space or even just like, you know, somebody you used to work with previously can just give you a bit of a sounding board, like give you perspective on something that's happening within the business right now and perhaps give you a fresh insight into what might be a good option of how to respond in this situation. So, you know, I would really encourage particularly the leaders and their founders in this. who are listening to the podcast to really think about this. You need to also give yourself the space to think about how to respond and how to communicate through those challenges.

• Speaker #0

  I 100% agree with you. I personally have also a few mentors that act as sounding boards and I cannot thank them enough because at times when you're really head into it and then you don't really take the time to take a step back and reflect like they're so helpful to make you see things that you can't really see yourself.

• Speaker #1

  Absolutely. And it's very true that the best leaders at every scale of business get support. That is absolutely true. I've known it when I've worked for the largest global organizations. I've known it when I've been working with startups. People who seek out that support, who seek out that help, are doing it from a place of knowing that this is what helps them to be a better global leader. This is what's going to enable them to be the best.

• Speaker #0

  best they can be in the way they show up for their people and how they communicate for the company for the organization and their and the brand that they're building and i believe it's very critical to highlight it because i would tend to think that as you're especially if it's your first managing job but then you tend to think okay because i'm at that position right now i'm supposed to be you confident, I'm supposed to be knowledgeable, etc. And then perhaps you can see the fact of seeking help as not really something you should do. And as you mentioned, it's so important to highlight that this is something at every level, you should be doing it. And there is no shame. On the contrary, I think it's very mature. And it just teaches you so much.

• Speaker #1

  honestly absolutely yeah I think you know that's an interesting point I think people sometimes feel like they have to hold it all your arms somehow need to grow and grow and grow to be able to hold it and just the reality is you can be facing some really tough challenges no matter how resilient you are no matter how um you know greater leader you are everybody needs that support so you know this is something that might be quite vulnerable for some people to kind of admit to themselves you You know, I think it's a question of how much you want to share that with others. Of course, you don't have to. You know, that can be just literally between you and who's listening to you, whether that's the mentor or the coach or whoever you're working with. But the reality is it takes a lot to admit and to kind of say, actually, yes, I do need this support and it's going to make me a better person and better leader if I do this.

• Speaker #0

  Yes, absolutely. And I think that was one of the key message of today, really seeking help. Admit, you know, when we are like limited, that's all right. And it's actually going to make us better. Yeah. We should go for it. Thanks a lot, Victoria. If that's okay with you, let's maybe move to that last part of every episode, which is the oops, my bad time. Whoops, my bad. For those who tune in the first time, it's a few minutes at the end of each episode for the speaker to share. a story related to global expansion that went wrong so listeners can learn from. So in our case, it could be something related, obviously, to global leadership communication, as you wish, Victoria, but anything to share with us today?

• Speaker #1

  Sure. Well, I think I'm going to share the story about my early days in when I set up this business and working with a Japanese client and not quite getting it the first time around. But I think, you know, if I think back to my marketing days in my early career, So I spent quite a lot of time in Germany. I was working with a manufacturing team and R&D team out in Germany. And I remember being very excitable. I was an innovation manager. I had lots of great ideas. I was really excited about all the new ideas I was going to be bringing to the market. And I'd gathered, you know, the cross-European team. We were in the factory. I was sharing the new ideas. And I was... really excited to see what they thought of them and I remember that the one of the sort of uh German sort of marketing teams sort of like just said and she just said it really directly she said you know Victoria I really hate these ideas and I remember sitting there going out you know that hurts that hurts and particularly early in my career as well but at the same time it's quite interesting like I you know I had a slight emotional reaction I have to admit, I was young in my career. It was something I hadn't expected, this style of direct feedback, particularly in the UK. Again, it depends where you work, but the company I was working at the time, the UK team were quite soft and relaxed, and I've never had that direct style of feedback. However, what I did understand, and certainly on reflection, working regularly with the German teams, it's just the style of communication. generally and again I can't speak for everybody who lives in Germany or worked in that team but generally people were just much more to the point and through my own research through my own learning I you know my own time living in Germany I now know you know there is a certain directness because it's a focus on the idea whereas in the UK if you give that kind of feedback in that way particularly not adjusting any tone of voice it would be interpreted as a personal criticism like you really don't like me as a person you really don't like you don't rate me as a as a manager and all of this so I mean this is probably my own mistake not recognizing this but it was a really valuable lesson to me which was this is when you know back in the day I was like wow there really is something here about where communication meets culture and there's a gap that opens up and I could have gotten very upset and very um offended by this you But actually, on reflection, I realized it was only meant to improve. It was only meant for us as a team to get to the best kind of result. Now, that is just one. It was nothing personal to me. And I think it's a tiny, tiny example from my own experience. But I think it's a great example of why sometimes these miscommunications and misunderstandings happen and what you have to understand culturally about others. to really get what's going on. Like, what do they mean in reality? What's the intention behind the words and the way they're saying things?

• Speaker #0

  Such a great example as to how communication and culture is linked in many ways. Thank you so much, Victoria, for everything you shared today. That was very insightful. I hope the audience liked it. I know that I did.

• Speaker #1

  Oh, fantastic. Well, thank you so much, Tiffany. It was an absolute pleasure to be on the show. And yeah, no, really, really great to have this conversation. So thank you so much as well for the really great questions.

• Speaker #0

  Of course. Well, I guess until next time, then have a good one.

• Speaker #1

  Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye-bye.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you so much for listening until the end. If you liked this episode, don't forget to subscribe to not miss the next one. And please share it with two people in your network. This is how this podcast gets more visibility and can help more of us. to work on international markets. See you soon!