Description

What does it take to lead effectively in today's complex political landscape? In this enlightening episode of N'DIGO STUDIO, host Hermene Hartman sits down with Rahm Emanuel, a true powerhouse in American politics whose career has spanned the roles of Congressman, Chief of Staff to President Obama, Mayor of Chicago, and U. S. Ambassador to Japan. Emanuel shares, "Effective leadership is about having the intellectual vision, stamina, and the ability to motivate teams," offering listeners a masterclass in the qualities that define successful leaders.

Join us as we dive deep into thought-provoking dialogue about leadership, democracy, and America's evolving role on the global stage. Emanuel reflects on lessons from his diverse leadership experiences, emphasizing the need to build strong, risk-taking teams and the importance of listening to constituents. This episode is a must-listen for anyone interested in the intricate dynamics of politics in Chicago and beyond.

As the conversation unfolds, Emanuel critiques the current state of the Democratic Party, pinpointing a disconnection with middle-class values and the urgent need to address pressing societal issues, particularly in education. With a keen eye on the political climate under Trump, he underscores the importance of unity and effective governance to confront national challenges head-on. This episode resonates deeply with the themes of social justice and community impact, making it a vital addition to the discourse surrounding black culture and community revitalization.

Emanuel also draws intriguing comparisons between the educational systems of the U. S. and Japan, highlighting the role of community in fostering child development. This discussion not only sheds light on educational reforms but also connects to broader themes of urban development and grassroots activism. As we explore these cultural conversations, listeners will gain insights into the core values that underpin American democracy.

As we wrap up this exclusive interview, Emanuel shares his thoughts on the future of American democracy, urging a return to foundational principles that promote freedom and equality. This episode of N'DIGO STUDIO is not just a political conversation; it’s a rich tapestry of Chicago stories and storytelling that will inspire you to reflect on your role in shaping the community. Tune in for an episode that promises to enlighten and engage, as we navigate the complexities of leadership, politics, and cultural identity in our ever-evolving society.

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Transcription

• Speaker #0

  Hi, I'm Hermine Hartman, and today on Indigo Studio, we welcome a man who's been at the center of power, from Congress to City Hall to the White House to the world state. We're talking about Rahm Emanuel. His career reads like a modern political roadmap. former Congressman, Senior Advisor to President Clinton, Chief of Staff to President Obama, Mayor, City of Chicago, and most recently, the United States Ambassador to Japan. He's been called bold. He's been called brilliant, blunt, but always effective. We're going to discuss with him today leadership, democracy, diplomacy, and the evolving role of America in the world. So do I call you Honorable Romy Madden?

• Speaker #1

  You should hear what they call me at home. Oh, okay. Anything will be an upgrade.

• Speaker #2

  I'm going to stick with Rom,

• Speaker #0

  huh?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah.

• Speaker #0

  So, Rom, you have held many leadership roles, many leadership spots. You've done some courageous things. You've messed up. How do these roles compare in terms of your leadership? Same leadership, different leadership?

• Speaker #1

  Oh, yeah. Well, so one is I would say different leadership because at one time you're the mayor, another time you're the chief of staff working for the leader, but you have to lead the staff. You know, I always joke in the White House, there's only one position that has two titles, chief of staff, and sometimes you're chief and sometimes you're staff. You just got to know. But so a step back. I will say to you, when we're talking about family dinners, leadership, in my view, is described by knowing why you're doing what you're doing and then being ruthless and tough enough to get it done. If you look through history, specifically American history, the really effective leaders have an intellectual roadmap and then they have a stamina and capacity. to get there if through sheer, you know, you're going into 70 mile an hour headway. Yeah, I mean, you think, look at Lincoln, look at Ronald Reagan, look at FDR, look at, I mean, look at the great leaders, transformational, not transitional. They have the capacity, they know where they want to go, and then they have the stomach and the grit to get there. That's leadership. And then, you know, when I was ambassador, I led a team of 800 people. When I was mayor, obviously a much bigger workforce, but you also led a city, et cetera. You're chief of staff. That's a different role. But when I was a congressman, led the effort to get Nancy Pelosi speaker, win the majority after 12 years. So each of them required different qualities, even during the day. But one quality describes leadership, in my view, or one kind of definition.

• Speaker #0

  What lessons did you learn in leadership? All of those roles, cumulative. What's the... What's the things that you've learned?

• Speaker #1

  Well, a number of things. When you have, you know, so if you're preparing for a meeting or, well, I said, let me go down it this way. One, even if you think you know the answer, listen more, you may learn more about your own answer. Two, hire really strong, effective people and give them the loyalty. to execute and take risk. Too often people don't take risk and you want to give them the loyalty and the confidence to take risk. Third, when you're articulating something, you're both speaking to an outside and inside audience and they hear different things in that effort. So those would be some of the things that I think of as a sense of learning and leadership. I mean, the other thing is, I mean, when you're trying to pass legislation like we were trying to do on health care and stuff like that. You try to, I was a former member, and so my colleagues, when we were trying to get through the House, knew me as somebody who watched out for them politically. And this was seen as a tough vote, so I had to give, that was a different type of leadership I was providing and a different type of counsel. So it's different things at different places, and you got to, it's like a Swiss army knife. Yeah, or you got to know which blade or which scissors to bring up.

• Speaker #3

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• Speaker #4

  Welcome to Hell's Kitchen, Broadway's hit musical from Alicia Keys.

• Speaker #5

  Every song, If I Ain't Got You, Empire State of Mind, is all in the show.

• Speaker #4

  Meet Allie, a 17-year-old girl full of fire. Meet the musical mentor who changes her life and her family, who lifts her up. With exhilarating choreography, Hell's Kitchen is all about finding yourself, your purpose, and the people who inspire you. Hell's Kitchen, playing at the James M. Niederlander Theatre, November 11th through 30th.

• Speaker #6

  I grew up on the South Side. I have friends that are barbers, drivers, musicians. They work on their own. Gigs where you don't have a big employer. It's not easy to get insured. At Get Covered Illinois, we're here to help. Across Illinois, 500,000 people access healthcare through Get Covered Illinois. That's why open enrollment at Get Covered Illinois is such an opportunity. But it all ends January 15th.

• Speaker #3

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• Speaker #4

  Welcome to Hell's Kitchen, Broadway's hit musical from Alicia Keys.

• Speaker #5

  Every song, If I Ain't Got You, Empire State of Mind, is all in the show.

• Speaker #4

  Meet Allie, a 17-year-old girl full of fire. Meet the musical mentor who changes her life and her family, who lifts her up. With exhilarating choreography, Hell's Kitchen is all about finding yourself, your purpose, and the people who inspire you. Hell's Kitchen, playing at the James M. Niederlander Theatre, November 11th through 30th.

• Speaker #6

  It's not easy to get insurance. At Get Covered Illinois, we're here to help. It's one place where people can compare plans and prices and also get help with their premium. Get Covered Illinois, we're here to help.

• Speaker #0

  Let's talk about Democratic Party today. Where are we? What do we need to do?

• Speaker #1

  I don't know why, but we like... Bill Clinton, Barack Obama, win and win again, and then we unlearn the lessons of their victory and go back into where we are today, and then we have to learn the lessons all over again. I don't know why that is, but it is. There's a pattern to President Clinton's victory after Jimmy Carter, Walter Mondale, Michael Dukakis lost. There's a pattern to President Obama's not only win... but his reelect, as well as true for President Clinton. And I kind of, there's a lot more to it to unpack, but middle-class economics, middle-class values. Part of the question you asked about what happened is we got away from middle-class values. As I jokingly say sometimes, but this is to make a point, we weren't very good at the kitchen table issues. We weren't really good in the family room and we only occupied the bathroom and it's the smallest room in the house. And so that is a real problem. And we are a party in our DNA of acceptance, but we became a party of advocacy, and that's not what people wanted. And two, we were off kilter. And it's seen as a set of issues, and I'll be receiving an award today from the Golden Apple on education. But look, we brought the cultural wars to our schools. And that's, you know, we took the name of Abraham Lincoln off of a high school. or San Francisco did, and didn't really care whether the kids knew why Abraham Lincoln was an American giant. That's like losing the plot. We argued about bathroom access, and we weren't really concerned about classroom excellence. Today, we just, about a month ago, the nation's report card, NAEP, it's a test, came out and two-thirds of our kids are not doing reading and math at grade level. Now, you and I are sitting here. We know more about the president's position on windmills, more about his views on Cracker Barrel. And he has never once talked about the fact that two-thirds of our children, our future, can't read or do math at grade level. Nobody on the National Governors Association has called for an emergency meeting. As adults, our kids are failing, but we are failing our kids. And so to me, the party, Jimmy Carter sets up the Department of Education. Bill Clinton creates public school choice and teachers of excellence. Barack Obama creates his race to the top. We just went through Joe Biden and Kamala Harris. I like both of them. But you can't tell me what their education policy was except for they were against charters. And we've now lost not only our political advantage, we have no policy on that. That's a core piece. So that's a piece of why we lost. And to me, get back to basically being seen as a fighter for the American people who, it is true, their backs are against the wall financially and economically. And I say this, you and I were talking earlier about, my kids are going to be fined. Two-parent family, loving home, not just went to good schools, but are achieving things and coming into their own. But we don't score whether 10% of the kids can get to the American dream. We score whether it's accessible to all Americans. And we're not scoring it right. And what has happened over the last 30 years is the latter got pulled up. Owning a home, affording an education, health care, retirement, and the latter got pulled up. Our job is to push the ladder down so everybody can get a chance to get on it.

• Speaker #2

  What do you think of Trump?

• Speaker #0

  Eliminated the whole federal level of education.

• Speaker #1

  I'm not a governor, but I know what Governor Bill Clinton would do, who worked with Ronald Reagan on education reform. I'd call for a national emergency meeting of governors to meet with the administration right now on how to... developing a blueprint and a roadmap on how to return our reading scores and math scores. Now, I just want to be honest. Unlike in past instances, Mississippi has a miracle going on. A lot of those of us who are nerds in 2013, I think that's the right benchmark here, they were 49th in reading attainment. They are now ninth. Now, as somebody who made some tough decisions, To go from 49th and 9th is no small feat. And so they've proven how to do it. That should become a roadmap to not only encourage, but push every state to adopt their reading program, their teacher training program, and their accountability standards. Now, I happen to think Dr. Janice Jackson here in Chicago and I have written about this. Actually, when you look back at it, reinvented the high school education. But on the pre-K to 8, there's a roadmap. And what's impressive about Mississippi is everyone in the smarty pants at Harvard and Yale would tell you, not those kids, not that zip code, not that family income. But they went from 49th to 9th. So they said, don't predict or don't read a book by its cover. No kid is a guaranteed failure. They can succeed. with the right type of education. And I'm going to go on and on about this, because you know I care about this, but if you look, no great country has achieved greatness without having an education.

• Speaker #0

  What do you think of Trump? And how do, not what do you think of Trump, think of Trump, but how do we recover from the damage of Trump, from the change of Trump, from the authoritarian-ness of Trump?

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, I mean, I think... My worry, so there's like a lot of layers. My one worry is that once the genie's out of the bottle, it's hard to put it in. I don't think the country, can be wrong, I don't think the country wants a Democratic version of Donald Trump.

• Speaker #0

  Right.

• Speaker #1

  That I'm going to just rule and I'm going to, you know, number one. I said this the other day in the paper and I... He's not interested in governing. He's interested in ruling. It's a very different zeitgeist spirit. We're not here to restore the bureaucracy it passed. I think we have to be honest where we failed. And when I say we, I mean those of us who believed in the role of government as an equalizer in society, a force for good. We got more interested in the rules than we did in the results. So if there's going to be an initiative to get kind of checks and balances in the system and institutional kind of guardrails, speed counts. The American people know that we're at a critical moment. They know it in their bones. They may not be able to articulate some big theory. And we can't let the bureaucracy. suffocate stuff. And what I mean by that, by example, we're in an energy crisis, electricity crisis in this country. Do you know that it takes a proposal to build new power, whether it's solar, wind, or whatever, and get it into the grid? Seven years. Now, I'm sorry. That's just unacceptable. And the system needs to be pushed and needs to be accountable for results. So there's a piece of that. Second is, we have a lot of challenges. And I'll give you one experience. When I was ambassador to Japan, I learned a lot about Japan, learned a lot about the Far East, learned a lot about China. I learned a lot about America, being away from it and seeing it from a distance on the outside rather than the inside. Nothing China does today scares me. It's what America is not doing. And the president has decided we're going to pit parts of Chicago against the rest of America. pit. You know, we're going to redistrict in Texas, so California. Like, America needs less politics, not more. And he has pitted us against each other at the very time we need to be brought together to face one of the most unprecedented challenges of our time, both science, technology, and the threat of China. And I think it's a very dangerous, and I think the American people know this is not healthy. And I'll close on this one anecdote. So, you know, when I was done being mayor, the next day, I got on a bike. with a buddy, and we biked around Lake Michigan. 13 days, 1,000 miles. And I joke that the worse the cell phone service, the nicer people were. Well, you had to talk to each other. You knew each other in the community. You couldn't really be a jerk. And I think we got to work at reestablishing not just our civility, our ability, you know, listening, as you know, is an active, it's not a passive. We got to work on that.

• Speaker #0

  Thank you, Mike Brown. president.

• Speaker #3

  Whether you're considering an electric vehicle at work or at home, the tools, resources, and rebates available at commed.com slash ev make transitioning to an electric vehicle easier than ever before.

• Speaker #4

  Welcome to Hell's Kitchen, Broadway's hit musical from Alicia Keys.

• Speaker #5

  Every song, if I ain't got you, Empire State of Mind is all in the show.

• Speaker #4

  Meet Allie, a 17-year-old girl full of fire. Meet the musical mentor who changes her life and her family who lifts her up with exhilarating choreography. Hell's Kitchen is all about finding yourself, your purpose, and the people who inspire you. Hell's Kitchen, playing at the James M. Niederlander Theater, November 11th through 30th.

• Speaker #7

  Uninsured people worry, not so much about getting hurt, but when is someone going to ask for the insurance card that I don't have? That's why open enrollment at Get Covered Illinois is such an opportunity. 500,000 people across Illinois get health insurance through Get Covered Illinois. Most end up with a reduced premium. And that's why I do this. That's why I work for Get Covered Illinois.

• Speaker #3

  At ComEd, we understand a little help can really make someone's day. That's why we provide financial assistance and billing options to help you pay and manage your electric.

• Speaker #4

  Welcome to Hell's Kitchen, Broadway's hit musical from Alicia Keys.

• Speaker #5

  Every song, if I ain't got you, Empire State of Mind is all in the show.

• Speaker #4

  Meet Allie, a 17-year-old girl full of fire. Meet the musical mentor who changes her life and her family, who lifts her up. With exhilarating choreography, Hell's Kitchen is all about finding yourself, your purpose, and the people who inspire you. Hell's Kitchen, playing at the James M. Niederlander Theater, November 11th through 30th.

• Speaker #6

  It's not easy to get insurance. At Get Covered Illinois, we're here to help. It's one place where people can compare plans and prices and also get help with their premium. Get Covered Illinois, we're here to help.

• Speaker #0

  Think you might run, President?

• Speaker #1

  Well, here's my thing. I'm going to make a mental, emotional decision at the end of the year. I'm not going to do anything about it, but I'll make a mental decision. And if I think, like on education, like on civil discussion, I can do something that others can't, and I have an ability that I think meets the moment for America where it needs to go, and I think I can bring something to this that is not there, I will. If I don't, I won't. But it's going to be about what I think is needed to be done. Now, one example, my job with the House was to win the majority, flip the House from R to D. Some of my best friendships are on the R side. When I was chief of staff for President Obama and we hadn't been sworn in yet, or he hadn't been sworn in yet, President Bush and I worked out a lot of things that saved the auto industry. There's a level of trust. I think in this moment in time, that is an important quality, not everything. But the most important thing is having a vision of America, having a vision of the middle class and the American dream, and making sure that you have the policies to make it more accessible to people and change the direction of the last 30 years.

• Speaker #0

  So we have a governor that's also looking at the White House. So if he runs, would you run? If you run, how do we work that out?

• Speaker #1

  Well, first of all, there's... You know, I don't think you have to.

• Speaker #0

  What does it take to sit Trump down, move away from authoritative king-like government to democracy as we know it?

• Speaker #1

  Well, one of the things that, so you haven't, so one of the things is you focus on Trump. I focus on the fact that the Republican congressional wing has totally abdicated their responsibility. He could never be doing what he's doing if there was, if there was. not a Democratic opposition, a Republican voice. They have totally, in a way, abdicated their responsibility both to the institution they work for and to the interests. You know, we're all here temporarily. We're not here permanently. You're renting this. And, you know, in the measure of public service, here's the status of what I inherited. When I walked off, here's where it ended. You are, I mean, I know a number of these senators and members of Congress. You've got to be kidding me. You're going to, you are going to take this to your grave. So part of this is challenging them to be, once again, reestablish their responsibility to the country and the institution they serve.

• Speaker #0

  To live up to.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah. And they have, Donald Trump would, it's not about Democrats. And this is where people get wrong. Everybody goes, oh, Democrats. No, the Republicans. He couldn't. Look, when Cruz spoke up. He had to back down on getting Jimmy Kimmel fired. It wasn't that big a deal. All he had to say was it's wrong to have, literally have somebody fired because of free speech. You could see that across a series of policy initiatives the president is saying, if the Republicans would just address it and they have become a rubber stamp. And I think the American people know this is not healthy.

• Speaker #0

  How do you think the effects of Trump on media?

• Speaker #1

  I don't know. There's a diffusion. media. One of the things that is going to be is YouTube is going to challenge what's called now mainstream. They are not the only sandbox in this deal.

• Speaker #0

  80% of Americans look at YouTube.

• Speaker #1

  So when you say to me, how do we, I think the internal competitiveness is going to change the landscape. I think there's a couple of things you have to do. One, I think we got to get the algorithms of social media to work the other way, which is if you're aggregating all your information on this side of the spectrum. 10% of the information coming to you will be from the other side. Just exposure is, so make the algorithm work for the arc of society, not against it. Number two, return to the fairness doctrine. It got eliminated and has been a major detriment. And third, hold the media, social media accountable for what's out there in the way that the 320 principle, I think that's the right clause that I'm calling back in the FCC. And all three of those together. Because social media platforms are different than the big...

• Speaker #0

  How did you see anything in Japan's educational system that we might borrow for the United States? What did you see?

• Speaker #1

  Family. There are three doors in a child's life that will determine their future. The front door of the home, the front door of the school, and the front door of the place of worship. And if one of those doors is shut, it will affect the moral and educational development of a child. And I was, and so that's, to me, that's really. Important, I think, as a father, not as a mayor. I think I've lived by that. I firmly, and as you know this, but prior to everything else, I was going to be an early childhood educator. My dad was a pediatrician. I then wanted to do early childhood psychology. To me, every child is homeschooled. Some are better homeschooled than others. But that home and that child can only do as well in school. is that home supports and doesn't teach, but teaches the priority of education. So that would be one thing that came from Japan.

• Speaker #0

  Parents lead by example. Yes.

• Speaker #1

  Number two, and this, I used to joke I was going to get arrested. Four-year-olds and five-year-olds walk to school by themselves in Japan. I used to say to every business group, I said, you think Mount Fuji's beautiful? I'm going to tell you, it was a person who was a mayor that built. safe passage routes for kids to go to school in Chicago. The idea that a child is this big, their backpack is this big, they'd come up to a major street, they put their hand up so it was above the grid of the car, the grill of the car, and cars came to a stop and they walked across the street.

• Speaker #0

  All by themselves, no parent, no...

• Speaker #1

  Eight blocks by themselves. There is a sense of a community and a sense of a protective envelope. We live in a city that has stolen childhood from our kids. In Japan, they have an innocence and a sense of trust and love from a community, not just their parents. So, yes, family, and yes, the larger family known as the community. I don't have my phone with me. I have a picture, and I used to joke that I was going to get arrested because I'm sitting there, and I said, stop the car, and I take a picture of these little kids. They have these backpacks that last their entire lives, and they have their hats on, boys with baseball hats, young women with yellow hats, blocking the sun, and they would walk to school. And when they're, no, I'm getting started. And when they would leave school, they'd walk out the front gate, and they'd just walk back home, and they know exactly where they're going. It's one of the most incredibly sublime, beautiful things I've ever seen.

• Speaker #0

  What about social media? Do they have Facebook? Do they have TikTok?

• Speaker #1

  They have all the social media stuff, etc.

• Speaker #0

  They use it like our kids use it?

• Speaker #1

  Yes, but it's not allowed in the schools.

• Speaker #3

  Okay, good. That's what I was... You know,

• Speaker #1

  Australia is doing something I'm fascinated with. So I'm a big proponent, no telephones, in classrooms, no telephones. Australia is taking it a step further. No social media apps until the age of 18. Banned. Banned on the phone.

• Speaker #5

  That'll work.

• Speaker #0

  I wouldn't do 18. That's kind of.

• Speaker #1

  Well, you could say that, but I'm really intrigued by that.

• Speaker #0

  Start reading again.

• Speaker #1

  Yeah, well, we'll start. No, we'll start talking to each other.

• Speaker #0

  We'll get back to where we're supposed to be. Thank you. Thanks very much. Thank you.